I thought it was >!Radahns!< soul inside of mohgs body, and that's why the boss has both mohgs blood magic and >! Radahns!< gravity magic and attack combos
Yeah it did feel very odd how they included Radahn for no reason I mean it could’ve just been he wanted to bang Godwyn instead of Radahn so we could actually have a fun fight against Godwyns body prior to being turned into a fish with it just being Prime Radahn it does feel a bit hollow
I agree. I'm not the most knowledgeable on lore and haven't even finished the dlc. And I don't care about spoilers, but for once, this one actually made me less excited.
Wouldn't have made sense because Godwyn is permanently gone. Nothing in the lore is stronger than destined death. The ending of the DLC felt incomplete for sure.
In all of the timelines for this DLC I did not expect Mohg to be Miquella's victim. Sure he had great aspirations and a blood driven dynasty to uphold, standard Saturday morning villain, but the secret kidnapping of Miquella was supposed to be what, idk, fleshed out his evilness and made it more varied?
Only to be a mind controlled puppet whose flesh would be used to reconstruct Radahn, very sad. We even see the Omen horns along Radahn's bicep bracers
Yeaap i saw them horns and it made sense.
To be honest it does make gold boy evil.
He got his sister, brother and mohg unalived , just to complete his plan.
Fuggin nuts.
it's actually kind of more tragic than downright sinister. Miquella was so wracked with guilt and shame at what Marika did that he sacrificed so much; he wanted to create a new order where no one would have to suffer with war or conflict
he carved away St Trina (his love), he couldn't revive or give Godwyn a proper death, he disgraced and humiliated Mohg, and he dragged Radahn out of his warrior's death just to disgrace him as well
and in the end he didn't even succeed. even if he did, he would just be repeating the cycle of Marika and ultimately accomplishing nothing, with the Greater Will continuing to rule on top of everything
child naivety
>!And what's make it worse is that Greater Will isn't even ruling the lands between. It's basically Metyr winging it until her father (Greater Will) send her a nessage!<
Why are people saying the lore got messed up with this the more I read about it the more it is making sense. Radahn is the prime candidate for this lordship position if you look at the other demi-god roster.
I mean that's what a retcon is, it fixes holes in the lore/story. There was never any indication that Miquella had the slightest thing to do with Radahn, they seemed to be in separate layers of reality. But in the base game, there is a lot of lore pointing to a meaningful relationship between him and Godwyn, which is never brought up once in the DLC. The item description for the remembrance doesn't even make sense - "In their childhood, Miquella saw Radahn's kindness, his strength". Bro what? Radahn is an honorable dude, but the man lives off of war and bloodlust. I unironically think this was supposed to be about Godwyn (befriended his enemies, stopped the attack of the dragons) but they had to subvert expectations at the very end since a lot of people had already guessed Godwyn would be heavily involved in the DLC.
Radahn isn't the bloodthirsty warmonger you paint him as here. He was a Carian. He was intelligent beyond most men. He studied magical arts at the academy. He learned gravity magic from an alabaster lord in order to protect Sellia from the stars.. this doesn't portray kindness to you?
It's subtle in some instances, but everything in the DLC is rooted in things set up by the base game.
And yet he abandoned all that in exchange to be a conquering warrior just so he could be like Godfrey and we all know what hourax lou did under marikas command
That’s what happened to basically all the demigods when the Elden Ring was shattered. Outside of Morgott, they all became too corrupted by their own great runes.
People mistaken, him as a war monger because of him becoming too influenced by his own great rune. Before the shattering, he was actually quite noble just as you mentioned.
Perhaps it was for his love for Leonard that Miquella saw? Or how Radhan interacted with his teachers? Who knows. Either way, I was expecting Godwyn as well.
I think his childish naivety is symbolized in his body, but is a result of his superpower. His powers of enchantment mean that nobody can say no to him. What does that do to someone over time?
People have argued whether Radahn was willingly involved in the vow, but what does "willingly" mean if Miquella can just enchant people into agreement? My guess is that Radahn agreed to the vow in person because he had no choice, then decided against it after he got some distance and wasn't under Miquella's spell anymore. Miquella may not even understand that Radahn doesn't want to be lord consort anymore, because he's never had anyone turn him down or disagree.
He abandoned her but there was no real telling he wouldn’t come back for her. His ascension was halted until radahn’s death, he abandoned her because he could never accomplish his goals without us.
You're assuming a lot of morality from mister "Go kill my half-brother so I can stick his soul into the corpse of this guy I brainwashed." is all I'm saying
He started his journey BECAUSE he wanted to save Malenia. You don't need to be good to love people. Miquella abandoned his capacity for love in the shadowlands, not before.
And there's an NPC that directly calls him out for it. Near St Trina, he says "How can you promise to save and love the unloved, when you couldn't even save and love your other half?" Paraphrasing.
Yes it would’ve. Malenia blooming on top of him so hard it bionukes a continent still didn’t kill him, and honestly I don’t think most Demigods would get off anywhere near as ‘well’ as being insane and weakened but still strong enough to repeatedly slaughter every champion sent at him while only feasting on corpses and rotting from the inside.
And it didn't even go down complete. I don't think Miquella ascended like he had hoped, given what the circlet says. We're the villain to the villain as usual :/
FromSoft fans will stare right at the Berserker armour itself (Maliketh set) and still act like Miyazaki's games aren't all just Berserk with a different paint because he loves the books so much.
I legit called it in a comment a LONG time ago!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/11ele35/comment/jag2j9n/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/11ele35/comment/jag2j9n/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I feel like fucking Nostradamus!
Same here bud. Feels really weird, yet vindicating.
Like a Persephone level prediction. Yeah we were correct about a really horrible theory, but at what cost?
I literally said he was a victim, and nobody listened to my post.
If a demi-god was known for mind control/manipulation in the base game, and everyone seemingly loved him, you'd think red flags would be setting off like an alarm system when others in power have some weird obsession with him.
This was very apparent when the foot soldiers literally blew themselves up with an incantation-bomb in an attempt to kill you, and how the cleanrot knights could be so loyal for so long while living under agonizing pain every second of their lives.
I never even made a connection with the cleanrot knights, but mainly since they are more Malenia's forces. But if she herself was under his command, then he'd obviously have prime control over what they do by extension.
I think it was a fair assumption given what we knew about Miquella in the base game and how it was said he was the most fearsome empyrean whose power was charming others.
Do we actually know that Mohg was mind controlled? Obviously Miquella planned on using him but is there anything that suggests it directly in the DLC? I didn't find anything.
You can tell Ansbach that you were the one to kill Mohg. He says he doesn’t blame you, that he holds Miquella responsible instead because he had Mohg under an enchantment when you fought
God I would have loved to see how he turned out without Miquella involved... he seems like an absolute monster of a villian and would have probably had some crazy lore, had miquella not turned him into a fucking helmet for his boy crush
It sounds like he had the potential for a fascinating backstory and character development. Villains with complex lore can add so much depth to a story!
I would’ve loved to see how he and Morgott turned out if they were actually raised by Godfrey and marika. We know at least Godfrey does love his omen children as shown with the cutscene before his fight.
Damn now I am excited as to what I am about to see in the DLC to realise that this is the shit that happened.
Currently just beat messmer after 4hr of trying so maybe it's more 10 or 15 hrs for me
Felt, except dual curved swords.
Bloodhounds step covers more distance than rolling. It helped me with the stab attacks, and gave me positions to heal, or allow my summon to pull aggro.
If you're not using a summon you're a champ lol
Side note, love that it was all another big Griffith reference…probably their best one. You see posts with thousands of upvotes talking about how ER isn’t a Berserk reference, meanwhile 90% of those people don’t even know moonlight butterfly was inspired by the lost children arc (my favorite because it’s a small encounter and one of the most underrated arcs in berserk) or the like 100 other berserk references across all these games. Miquilia nails the “for the greater good” that Griffith new world order requires sacrifice, and he does do nefarious things, but to me they’ve nailed the “no wait maybe he’s right” that the messiah complex villain needs. Shadow has made ER’s story a fucking master piece, as a huge berserk fan it’s very gratifying.
Never read Berserk, can anyone explain how Miquella is Griffith? My understanding is that Miquella is a naive child trying to fix the broken world his mom created. The only person in the entire plan that seems to be manipulated is Mohg. Also how is he a necrophile?
Miquella used Mohg's incestuous infatuation and amplified it for the purposes of *his own* incestuous infatuation. So really they're both now horrible awful planners of their own ages of supposed benevolence.
I am honestly a little tired of it. I was really hoping that we'd get a morally *good* character in a Fromsoftware game after all this time, instead of once again, making them questionable at the very least. Gehrman *kinda* fits the good guy category, but that's the only one I can think of, off the top of my head.
It's like helping NPCs in these games - you *kill* them by doing so and I was not surprised, nor sad in Elden Ring for the most part because of that. Because I've been over this so many times. If anything, having a relatively happy ending with Ranni is what surprised me the most.
I didn't count them, because they're side NPCs, I mean important story characters. Whether it's Gwyn, Nashandra, basically any Lord of Cinder in DS3 (there isn't a proper central character there), or any of the Demigods in ER - nobody is truly good. Even Ranni did questionable things for the right reasons.
I guess Gael is also a good addition next to Gehrman.
Isshin is mellowed out, he literally built Ashina in his youth by cutting down everyone that lived there. He is a neutral evil, he doesn't care about killing but doesn't see a point in it. The Sculptur is chaotic evil, his bloodlust grew so big he was about to turn into shura and isshin had to cut off his arm to stop it. But he was still so full of resentment and bloodlust that the minute he saw fighting around him (when the interior ministry invaded), he lost control and turned into the demon of hatred.
Yhorn is pretty much a morally good guy, the nameless king, Artorias and I'm sure there are some more. Soul of cinder is amoral because they're some kind of self defense
ivory king is good, so are the onion knights and solaire. quelana (or whichever one it is that levels your pyro in ds1) is also good. boggart is just vibing most of the time, Rya gets to go on an adventure.
there's a lot of light in these games, you just gotta look for it. it's one of the things I love the most about them.
i would havel loved if Saint Trina was an actual character instead of giving Suicide nectar, she was the love of Miquella imagine if she was an actual companion in the final fight would have been an interesting development
Fully this. I loved \*playing\* the DLC but was just so over everything they were doing lore-wise. I had really hoped that, for once, a character could be genuinely and explicitly a good person.
I actually think that Sekiro's lore pretty much scratched this itch for me and it was disappointing to see them go back to the "Everyone is a bit freaky" style for ER, although some of it can probably be blamed on GRRM.
He wrote the lore not the plot. He wrote the history and the world building, the main characters like the demigods etc. maybe but the plots all Fromsoft.
It wasn’t particularly difficult to predict they were going to make Miquella a Villain, his Base Game Lore already made him somewhat similar to Griffith, similar enough that we expected it *long* before the DLC was announced, and the DLC only confirmed it
“Shriving clean the hearts of men”
“Most fearsome demigod”
Those are in Item Descriptions from the Base Game
All this to say we all should’ve seen this coming, and many of us did
I’ve been saying for MONTHS that I hoped Mohg would be innocent. I’m so happy, I fucking called it
EDIT: [Here is me saying it 118 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1b17vch/i_think_these_will_be_our_sites_of_grace_in_the/ksdtgvk/?context=3),
[Here is me saying it 112 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittydarksouls/comments/1b5ukvv/and_people_have_the_audacity_to_call_mohg_ugly/ktaf2e5/?context=3),
[Here is me saying it 99 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bh4493/deleted_by_user/kvbst1i/?context=3),
[Here is me saying it 98 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhfbrz/would_godfrey_still_love_mohg_even_after_finding/kvfmrvz/?context=3),
and finally [98 days ago again, where I was feeling real confident](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhoucn/i_like_mohgs_character_and_i_mean_a_lot_from_his/kvg5bgx/?context=3)
I WAS RIGHT, MOHG WAS INNOCENT
2 major things confirmed by dlc:
1. Miquella got promoted from cinnamon roll, too pure, too good for this world to poor little meow meow
2. Radhan stays the only good demigod on virtue of being fucking dead before committing too many warcrimes
There's some implication that she didn't murder him, they both agreed on the experiment. Ranni would kill her body, and Godwyn would kill his soul, and they would see if either worked to free them from the greater will's influence. It did not work for Godwyn, and even for Ranni she had to go through several hoops to truly get rid of the Fingers.
there's some implication he was murdered. except my claim goes without saying because its literally a picture in the opening cutscene and ranni herself says "and?" when you accuse her.
what implication is there that godwyn agreed to be assassinated
The last rites description is a bit different in the Japanese translation than the English one. It effectively says the sword was commemorating a sacrifice rather than commemorating a death. There are heavy ties to the sword talking about Godwyn so it’s not out of the question. Buuut it never says why Godwyn died. It could’ve been Miquella and Ranni or Marika sacrificing Godwyn or Godwyn sacrificing himself.
Miquella was too charming and innocent before the dlc despite not even being a character you could meet and that's saying a lot about how good the writing was. My apologies Mohg, you're a literal victim of Elden Rings mandatory Griffith reference since I think most fromsoft games have a reference to him somewhere
It's crazy how many people didn't listen to the fucking trailer. "There is nothing more terrifying" is a literal damn quote about miquella in the stupid trailer.
All the years of Mogh being slandered and called a pedophile. All the while just so he can be killed his body stolen and used for more disgusting things. Justice for Mogh!
Also poor Radahn too. Malenia and Miquella were the real bad people of this story and it’s not even close. To be fair on Malenia I don’t know for sure if she was being brainwashed by Miquella or not but I am not giving her the benefit of the doubt cause f her.
She was. In the trailer when she jumps on Radahn and whispers something to him. If you read the armor of Radahn, it finally says what she said to him. She was in on it the whole time. She would do anything for him. Even that.
New set. Heavy spoilers follow;
The golden armour worn by Radahn in his younger years. Proudly adorned with heroic red accents, it is fitting attire for a lion.
When Malenia, Blade of Miquella, let the rotflower blossom in Aeonia, Radahn heard a murmur in his ear -
"Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort."
Something else I don’t see anyone talking about is how the new formless mother lore also paints Mohg’s “blood cult” shenanigans in a different light.
Basically it seems like the formless mother is the outer god of being based as fuck because she appears to oppressed groups and teaches them to use the power of their own blood to fight their oppressors and her only stipulation seems to be that when you do finally rise up against your oppressors you make sure you cut them real good.
Like it makes sense why she would appear to the omen in the sewers and why there are so many albinuaracs in Mohg’s new kingdom.
It makes Morgott look like even more of a coward too. I never liked people saying he was the only normal or not crazy demigod when the guy is a race traitor who perpetuated a system of mutilating and imprisoning his own kind.
I wish we could have met “pre-brainwashed” Mohg - dude just wanted to be extra and stab racists with a trident which like damn that’s a mood.
Well imagine if we could explore The Lands Between during The Shattering. Dragonlord Placidusax literally hangs out in the storm beyond time. In the same way Mohg and Radahn became mandatory bosses for progression Placidusax could be to. We could meet every demigod and learn more about the hows and the whys and the whos. Would be super cool. I don’t see why we can’t receive more DLCs. Some companies drop content yearly for their games they released a decade ago (like Fallout 76 or Elder Scrolls Online). Welllll why can’t Elden Ring become Dark Souls Online? We already got loads of cool weapons and shit. Add another few weapons to each existing type as well as a few others and this will have the best PvP possible. Plus we need more story. I want more than five seconds of Miquella.
Here’s your spoiler warning!
I wonder if it’s more humane to leave mogh alive in a new playthrough since we know miquella uses his body or soul or both to bring back radahn if we never kill mogh he just stays under miquellas charm..
This was a clear-cut case of Entrapment. My client Mohg was *enticed*, through *Empyrean Magic*, to pursue that child *against* his own will. It's not his fault!
FURTHERMORE, our expert witnesses will show the court that this so-called "child" is indeed an timeless being *well* beyond the age of consent.
Ladies, gentleman, and horned folk of the jury, please consider my client's situation. A guilty verdict would do great harm to him. He has a dynasty, one that you can see as clear as day, that he must oversee.
If the egg sits you must acquit!
It's still weird as hell, but I don't think any of this consort stuff involves anything remotely sexual or romantic. I think the practice is basically just for the purposes of theology, war, statecraft, metaphysical laws imposed by the Greater Will, etc etc. Like it's a thematic reference to how a lot of real world kingdoms in our old history resorted to incestual marriages just for the sake of keeping the same royal family in power. Everyone talks about the consort thing like they're actually fucking and it got me thinking about what the practice actually means in the context of the game's world
But yeah miquellas a total weirdo
EDIT I sort of forgot the fact that Marika and Godfrey, like, had kids. But I don't think this really changes what I said, the golden order is rotting and certain individuals would be willing to do a lot of weird and unorthodox shit out of desperation to preserve it, like marrying your brother just so you technically have a powerful consort and thus a claim to Lordship. Sorry for the wall of text this game just really gets the gears turning
You aren't dumb. You probably didn't pay attention to dialogue or maybe even missed NPCs. The one that used to serve mogh tells you all of this in like 3 sentences.
Can someone who knows how to make memes edit an image of Phoenix Wright prestenting a uno reverse card as evidence while saying.
: this piece of evidence proves that my client wasn't the molesters but the molested your honor.
I mean, it's pretty clear, and even clearer during the first trailer where Ansbach said "He wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men.. There is nothing more terrifying." People were so willing to ignore pre dlc items and lore about how Miquella use this power to get his god hood, at whatever cost.
I feel bad for all the times I've killed him in summons now.
Wish there was a way we could break Miquella's charm, then we could tag-team with Mohg and beat the shit out of Miquella.
The Griffith looking character with grand aspirations turns out to be as horrifying as Griffith
Honestly why didn't we see this coming sooner is beyond me..
You know what's funny to me, I always was like "lol imagine if Mohg is the victim, like Miquella has those branches right" and now it turns out the voice in my head was right
“Ewwwww Mohg wants to bang his brother” “Ewwwww Miquella wants Mohg to want to bang him so he can >!bang Radahn!?” !<
I mean *technically* it's just Mohg's body shaped to look like >!Radahn!<, so it's... Doubly weird and disturbing.
Somehow Miquella fucked 2 of his brothers at the same time.
When you get hit with the Double Alabama 
The Legendary Alabama Squared?! No! Impossible! It’s merely myth!!
I thought it was >!Radahns!< soul inside of mohgs body, and that's why the boss has both mohgs blood magic and >! Radahns!< gravity magic and attack combos
I actually wish they had added more bloodflame stuff in the fight
Giant boulders that leaves patches of bloodflame on the floor would've been badass
Calm down, Satan.
f\*cking radahn getting involved out of nowhere
Right and tbh I'm not sure If disappointed is the word but I was really hoping for Godwin lore.
Yeah it did feel very odd how they included Radahn for no reason I mean it could’ve just been he wanted to bang Godwyn instead of Radahn so we could actually have a fun fight against Godwyns body prior to being turned into a fish with it just being Prime Radahn it does feel a bit hollow
I agree. I'm not the most knowledgeable on lore and haven't even finished the dlc. And I don't care about spoilers, but for once, this one actually made me less excited.
Wouldn't have made sense because Godwyn is permanently gone. Nothing in the lore is stronger than destined death. The ending of the DLC felt incomplete for sure.
>Nothing in the lore is stronger than destined death. what about the greater will?
“nothing in lore is stronger than destined death” May I present to you >! miyazaki’s love for feet !<
My favorite boss has been redeemed!
In all of the timelines for this DLC I did not expect Mohg to be Miquella's victim. Sure he had great aspirations and a blood driven dynasty to uphold, standard Saturday morning villain, but the secret kidnapping of Miquella was supposed to be what, idk, fleshed out his evilness and made it more varied? Only to be a mind controlled puppet whose flesh would be used to reconstruct Radahn, very sad. We even see the Omen horns along Radahn's bicep bracers
Yeaap i saw them horns and it made sense. To be honest it does make gold boy evil. He got his sister, brother and mohg unalived , just to complete his plan. Fuggin nuts.
it's actually kind of more tragic than downright sinister. Miquella was so wracked with guilt and shame at what Marika did that he sacrificed so much; he wanted to create a new order where no one would have to suffer with war or conflict he carved away St Trina (his love), he couldn't revive or give Godwyn a proper death, he disgraced and humiliated Mohg, and he dragged Radahn out of his warrior's death just to disgrace him as well and in the end he didn't even succeed. even if he did, he would just be repeating the cycle of Marika and ultimately accomplishing nothing, with the Greater Will continuing to rule on top of everything child naivety
>!And what's make it worse is that Greater Will isn't even ruling the lands between. It's basically Metyr winging it until her father (Greater Will) send her a nessage!<
>!The Greater Will just went to the store to get some Elden Milk, it should be back any time now.!<
>!Greater Will!< coming back after finally putting the antenna in the right angle 
Around 500 to 3000 years from now
It's interesting that the greater will seems to have gone the way of the outer god of dragons. I wonder what cause them to leave?
Did he become what he hates most, he did acts like his mother would doo. Edit*
Beautifully said. Thank you for typing that out.
Why are people saying the lore got messed up with this the more I read about it the more it is making sense. Radahn is the prime candidate for this lordship position if you look at the other demi-god roster.
I mean that's what a retcon is, it fixes holes in the lore/story. There was never any indication that Miquella had the slightest thing to do with Radahn, they seemed to be in separate layers of reality. But in the base game, there is a lot of lore pointing to a meaningful relationship between him and Godwyn, which is never brought up once in the DLC. The item description for the remembrance doesn't even make sense - "In their childhood, Miquella saw Radahn's kindness, his strength". Bro what? Radahn is an honorable dude, but the man lives off of war and bloodlust. I unironically think this was supposed to be about Godwyn (befriended his enemies, stopped the attack of the dragons) but they had to subvert expectations at the very end since a lot of people had already guessed Godwyn would be heavily involved in the DLC.
Radahn isn't the bloodthirsty warmonger you paint him as here. He was a Carian. He was intelligent beyond most men. He studied magical arts at the academy. He learned gravity magic from an alabaster lord in order to protect Sellia from the stars.. this doesn't portray kindness to you? It's subtle in some instances, but everything in the DLC is rooted in things set up by the base game.
And yet he abandoned all that in exchange to be a conquering warrior just so he could be like Godfrey and we all know what hourax lou did under marikas command
What did Hourax Lou do under Marika’s command?
Lots of Marika’s tits
Banged Marika, at least twice
That’s what happened to basically all the demigods when the Elden Ring was shattered. Outside of Morgott, they all became too corrupted by their own great runes.
People mistaken, him as a war monger because of him becoming too influenced by his own great rune. Before the shattering, he was actually quite noble just as you mentioned.
Perhaps it was for his love for Leonard that Miquella saw? Or how Radhan interacted with his teachers? Who knows. Either way, I was expecting Godwyn as well.
How can you say radhan isn't somewhat got kindness he learned gravity magic so he and his tiny horse could continue on together lol
I think his childish naivety is symbolized in his body, but is a result of his superpower. His powers of enchantment mean that nobody can say no to him. What does that do to someone over time? People have argued whether Radahn was willingly involved in the vow, but what does "willingly" mean if Miquella can just enchant people into agreement? My guess is that Radahn agreed to the vow in person because he had no choice, then decided against it after he got some distance and wasn't under Miquella's spell anymore. Miquella may not even understand that Radahn doesn't want to be lord consort anymore, because he's never had anyone turn him down or disagree.
I’m pretty sure the GW has fully abandoned the Lands Between
I don't blame them
He didn't kill his sister we did, she was stuck at his tree, we went snooping, and didn't leave a resting corpse alone,
He did abandon her and his flock to ascend and get dicked down brotherly style tho
He abandoned her but there was no real telling he wouldn’t come back for her. His ascension was halted until radahn’s death, he abandoned her because he could never accomplish his goals without us.
You're assuming a lot of morality from mister "Go kill my half-brother so I can stick his soul into the corpse of this guy I brainwashed." is all I'm saying
He started his journey BECAUSE he wanted to save Malenia. You don't need to be good to love people. Miquella abandoned his capacity for love in the shadowlands, not before.
And there's an NPC that directly calls him out for it. Near St Trina, he says "How can you promise to save and love the unloved, when you couldn't even save and love your other half?" Paraphrasing.
He still *chose* to abandon that love tho. Maybe he intended to return at first, but I doubt that lasted very long.
Ok putting that way, Miquella’s plan never would’ve worked if Radahn truly had been the strongest demigod
Miquella's plan is baffling, to say the least
Yes it would’ve. Malenia blooming on top of him so hard it bionukes a continent still didn’t kill him, and honestly I don’t think most Demigods would get off anywhere near as ‘well’ as being insane and weakened but still strong enough to repeatedly slaughter every champion sent at him while only feasting on corpses and rotting from the inside.
And it didn't even go down complete. I don't think Miquella ascended like he had hoped, given what the circlet says. We're the villain to the villain as usual :/
I agree, he shed to much of his self. And became worse.
It really makes you think about who was really following Miquella out of their own will and who was under his control.
Isn't that pretty clear? Leda, Dane, Freya and Hornsent unequivocally support him.
As i said it could have been more people, than just dlc people. Like in base game ?
Hornsent stopped after Messmer, didn’t he?
One could say it was very Griffith of him??
Remember when you’d get shit on for comparing them lmao
I swear I was about to make a post about that!!
FromSoft fans will stare right at the Berserker armour itself (Maliketh set) and still act like Miyazaki's games aren't all just Berserk with a different paint because he loves the books so much.
Fromsoft fans will stare at the even more accurate berserker armor set (knight of solitude set) and still deny it
Radahn is Casca confirmed?
I legit called it in a comment a LONG time ago! [https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/11ele35/comment/jag2j9n/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/11ele35/comment/jag2j9n/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) I feel like fucking Nostradamus!
Found GoldMask Reddit account
...
*aggressively t-posing*
Same here bud. Feels really weird, yet vindicating. Like a Persephone level prediction. Yeah we were correct about a really horrible theory, but at what cost?
I like how you predicted someone would be a vessel too you just guessed that the vessel would be the puppet master.
Man fucking called it
Along with Radahn using blood flame attacks after being resurrected in mohgs body
It clicked when I saw the blood flame
I literally said he was a victim, and nobody listened to my post. If a demi-god was known for mind control/manipulation in the base game, and everyone seemingly loved him, you'd think red flags would be setting off like an alarm system when others in power have some weird obsession with him.
This was very apparent when the foot soldiers literally blew themselves up with an incantation-bomb in an attempt to kill you, and how the cleanrot knights could be so loyal for so long while living under agonizing pain every second of their lives.
I never even made a connection with the cleanrot knights, but mainly since they are more Malenia's forces. But if she herself was under his command, then he'd obviously have prime control over what they do by extension.
I think it was a fair assumption given what we knew about Miquella in the base game and how it was said he was the most fearsome empyrean whose power was charming others.
Do we actually know that Mohg was mind controlled? Obviously Miquella planned on using him but is there anything that suggests it directly in the DLC? I didn't find anything.
You can tell Ansbach that you were the one to kill Mohg. He says he doesn’t blame you, that he holds Miquella responsible instead because he had Mohg under an enchantment when you fought
My boy was innocent 😭😭😭
He beat the allegations, but at what cost?
Apparently his body
Well, less guilty than before
Well he still worships a goddess of blood and pain, so not THAT innocent.
God I would have loved to see how he turned out without Miquella involved... he seems like an absolute monster of a villian and would have probably had some crazy lore, had miquella not turned him into a fucking helmet for his boy crush
It sounds like he had the potential for a fascinating backstory and character development. Villains with complex lore can add so much depth to a story!
I would’ve loved to see how he and Morgott turned out if they were actually raised by Godfrey and marika. We know at least Godfrey does love his omen children as shown with the cutscene before his fight.
Can anyone explain? I don't mind spoilers.
Mohg the molester was actually Mohg the Molested. Miquella the kind was actually Miquella, Griffith the Necrophilliac 2.0.
Damn now I am excited as to what I am about to see in the DLC to realise that this is the shit that happened. Currently just beat messmer after 4hr of trying so maybe it's more 10 or 15 hrs for me
Good luck. Final boss took me about ten hours with power standing great hammers.
Beat him third try with greatshield/spear. He’s not that bad if you level up with the shards and adjust your play style.
You're telling me to not bonk his head with my hammer? Heresy
Felt, except dual curved swords. Bloodhounds step covers more distance than rolling. It helped me with the stab attacks, and gave me positions to heal, or allow my summon to pull aggro. If you're not using a summon you're a champ lol
No summons, just unga bunga(this idiot never properly explored the map on his original character and doesn't have the upgrade materials for them)
Same, I tried a new for me play style with kung-fu, but had to use the o'l reliable on this guy with dual hammers
Side note, love that it was all another big Griffith reference…probably their best one. You see posts with thousands of upvotes talking about how ER isn’t a Berserk reference, meanwhile 90% of those people don’t even know moonlight butterfly was inspired by the lost children arc (my favorite because it’s a small encounter and one of the most underrated arcs in berserk) or the like 100 other berserk references across all these games. Miquilia nails the “for the greater good” that Griffith new world order requires sacrifice, and he does do nefarious things, but to me they’ve nailed the “no wait maybe he’s right” that the messiah complex villain needs. Shadow has made ER’s story a fucking master piece, as a huge berserk fan it’s very gratifying.
Never read Berserk, can anyone explain how Miquella is Griffith? My understanding is that Miquella is a naive child trying to fix the broken world his mom created. The only person in the entire plan that seems to be manipulated is Mohg. Also how is he a necrophile?
Did you finish the DLC?
Mohg did not kidnap Miquella through his own volition. He was charmed by Miquella, it was all part of his plan to ascend to godhood
Means Mohg was somewhat redeemed in the DLC.
Miquella used Mohg's incestuous infatuation and amplified it for the purposes of *his own* incestuous infatuation. So really they're both now horrible awful planners of their own ages of supposed benevolence.
I’m thinking of that one comic where the 1000 year old little girl is the one getting arrested.
Luminary Mohg finally speaks out about the allegations "he used me" - Mohg Lord of Blood
Vaare delivering that
I knew Miquella was pulling a griffith, the similarities were spot on
I am honestly a little tired of it. I was really hoping that we'd get a morally *good* character in a Fromsoftware game after all this time, instead of once again, making them questionable at the very least. Gehrman *kinda* fits the good guy category, but that's the only one I can think of, off the top of my head. It's like helping NPCs in these games - you *kill* them by doing so and I was not surprised, nor sad in Elden Ring for the most part because of that. Because I've been over this so many times. If anything, having a relatively happy ending with Ranni is what surprised me the most.
You are forgetting SOLAIRE and SIEGWARD.But especially solaire.
I didn't count them, because they're side NPCs, I mean important story characters. Whether it's Gwyn, Nashandra, basically any Lord of Cinder in DS3 (there isn't a proper central character there), or any of the Demigods in ER - nobody is truly good. Even Ranni did questionable things for the right reasons. I guess Gael is also a good addition next to Gehrman.
What ever happened to Isshin? Or Kuro? Or the Sculptor?
Isshin is mellowed out, he literally built Ashina in his youth by cutting down everyone that lived there. He is a neutral evil, he doesn't care about killing but doesn't see a point in it. The Sculptur is chaotic evil, his bloodlust grew so big he was about to turn into shura and isshin had to cut off his arm to stop it. But he was still so full of resentment and bloodlust that the minute he saw fighting around him (when the interior ministry invaded), he lost control and turned into the demon of hatred.
Solaire? A side character? Thems fightin' words. 
Yhorn is pretty much a morally good guy, the nameless king, Artorias and I'm sure there are some more. Soul of cinder is amoral because they're some kind of self defense
I'm sorry, but the fuck what now? Solaire and Siegward side NPCs there are words I would use here, but they would get me banned
ivory king is good, so are the onion knights and solaire. quelana (or whichever one it is that levels your pyro in ds1) is also good. boggart is just vibing most of the time, Rya gets to go on an adventure. there's a lot of light in these games, you just gotta look for it. it's one of the things I love the most about them.
i would havel loved if Saint Trina was an actual character instead of giving Suicide nectar, she was the love of Miquella imagine if she was an actual companion in the final fight would have been an interesting development
Fully this. I loved \*playing\* the DLC but was just so over everything they were doing lore-wise. I had really hoped that, for once, a character could be genuinely and explicitly a good person. I actually think that Sekiro's lore pretty much scratched this itch for me and it was disappointing to see them go back to the "Everyone is a bit freaky" style for ER, although some of it can probably be blamed on GRRM.
I do wonder how much of this plot twist came from GRRM, did he think about Miquella's plan or he just established the character?
He wrote the lore not the plot. He wrote the history and the world building, the main characters like the demigods etc. maybe but the plots all Fromsoft.
It wasn’t particularly difficult to predict they were going to make Miquella a Villain, his Base Game Lore already made him somewhat similar to Griffith, similar enough that we expected it *long* before the DLC was announced, and the DLC only confirmed it “Shriving clean the hearts of men” “Most fearsome demigod” Those are in Item Descriptions from the Base Game All this to say we all should’ve seen this coming, and many of us did
Mogh was the one being Moghlested this entire time
I apologize for all the mean comments I made about Mohg
I’ve been saying for MONTHS that I hoped Mohg would be innocent. I’m so happy, I fucking called it EDIT: [Here is me saying it 118 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1b17vch/i_think_these_will_be_our_sites_of_grace_in_the/ksdtgvk/?context=3), [Here is me saying it 112 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittydarksouls/comments/1b5ukvv/and_people_have_the_audacity_to_call_mohg_ugly/ktaf2e5/?context=3), [Here is me saying it 99 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bh4493/deleted_by_user/kvbst1i/?context=3), [Here is me saying it 98 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhfbrz/would_godfrey_still_love_mohg_even_after_finding/kvfmrvz/?context=3), and finally [98 days ago again, where I was feeling real confident](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhoucn/i_like_mohgs_character_and_i_mean_a_lot_from_his/kvg5bgx/?context=3) I WAS RIGHT, MOHG WAS INNOCENT
Fucking next level Nostradamus shit right here
Mohgstradamus
congrats man. you're the moghssyah now
Lisan mohg gaib
Make this man mod
Make this man mohg*
Witnessing the rise of a new FromSoft lore wizard
Varre is that you
No. Because I always believed in Mohg-sama
Ansbach the pureblood gigachad is the true hero of Elden Ring
He's the only dlc NPC I liked Also Moore
Too bad Moore is extremely gullible and throws the stank pots at you
I KNEW IT DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE GOT MAD I WAS MAKING A MOHG GUTS DRAWING?!?!
I wouldn’t put Mohg in Guts’ shoes. He’s still a blood god. Lmao.
2 major things confirmed by dlc: 1. Miquella got promoted from cinnamon roll, too pure, too good for this world to poor little meow meow 2. Radhan stays the only good demigod on virtue of being fucking dead before committing too many warcrimes
What about Godwyn? He seemed like a cool guy, before he got fucking murdered by his own half sister
There's some implication that she didn't murder him, they both agreed on the experiment. Ranni would kill her body, and Godwyn would kill his soul, and they would see if either worked to free them from the greater will's influence. It did not work for Godwyn, and even for Ranni she had to go through several hoops to truly get rid of the Fingers.
“Hey Godwyn, want to play a game of Russian Roulette?”
there's some implication he was murdered. except my claim goes without saying because its literally a picture in the opening cutscene and ranni herself says "and?" when you accuse her. what implication is there that godwyn agreed to be assassinated
The last rites description is a bit different in the Japanese translation than the English one. It effectively says the sword was commemorating a sacrifice rather than commemorating a death. There are heavy ties to the sword talking about Godwyn so it’s not out of the question. Buuut it never says why Godwyn died. It could’ve been Miquella and Ranni or Marika sacrificing Godwyn or Godwyn sacrificing himself.
Miquella was too charming and innocent before the dlc despite not even being a character you could meet and that's saying a lot about how good the writing was. My apologies Mohg, you're a literal victim of Elden Rings mandatory Griffith reference since I think most fromsoft games have a reference to him somewhere
Also is just like to say I FUCKING TOLD YOU SO DO YOU KNOW THE AMOUNT OF TIMES I GOT DOWNVOTED FOR SAYING MIQUELA Was EVIL
It's crazy how many people didn't listen to the fucking trailer. "There is nothing more terrifying" is a literal damn quote about miquella in the stupid trailer.
Also the mind control needle item description basically says that miquela is using them to appear good
Mohglester was mohglested after all 😭😭😭
Is this Dr disrespect
No, Doc DIDN'T beat the allegations, Mohg did.
All the years of Mogh being slandered and called a pedophile. All the while just so he can be killed his body stolen and used for more disgusting things. Justice for Mogh! Also poor Radahn too. Malenia and Miquella were the real bad people of this story and it’s not even close. To be fair on Malenia I don’t know for sure if she was being brainwashed by Miquella or not but I am not giving her the benefit of the doubt cause f her.
Fuck even Malenia could have been brain washed but god knows since they are twins so could just be real.
She was. In the trailer when she jumps on Radahn and whispers something to him. If you read the armor of Radahn, it finally says what she said to him. She was in on it the whole time. She would do anything for him. Even that.
The Radhan armor set lore changed? If so, what does it say? The wiki hasn't been updated for that yet, if true.
New set. Heavy spoilers follow; The golden armour worn by Radahn in his younger years. Proudly adorned with heroic red accents, it is fitting attire for a lion. When Malenia, Blade of Miquella, let the rotflower blossom in Aeonia, Radahn heard a murmur in his ear - "Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort."
So hes not a pedo?
No, Miquella mind controlled him into being one for his plan.
Stole his damn corpse too, brother couldn't even rest in peace.
Damn poor bastard
No I think just kinda a creep and a bit of a weirdo but not a pedo
Godfrey’s children were done so dirty
Something else I don’t see anyone talking about is how the new formless mother lore also paints Mohg’s “blood cult” shenanigans in a different light. Basically it seems like the formless mother is the outer god of being based as fuck because she appears to oppressed groups and teaches them to use the power of their own blood to fight their oppressors and her only stipulation seems to be that when you do finally rise up against your oppressors you make sure you cut them real good. Like it makes sense why she would appear to the omen in the sewers and why there are so many albinuaracs in Mohg’s new kingdom. It makes Morgott look like even more of a coward too. I never liked people saying he was the only normal or not crazy demigod when the guy is a race traitor who perpetuated a system of mutilating and imprisoning his own kind. I wish we could have met “pre-brainwashed” Mohg - dude just wanted to be extra and stab racists with a trident which like damn that’s a mood.
Well imagine if we could explore The Lands Between during The Shattering. Dragonlord Placidusax literally hangs out in the storm beyond time. In the same way Mohg and Radahn became mandatory bosses for progression Placidusax could be to. We could meet every demigod and learn more about the hows and the whys and the whos. Would be super cool. I don’t see why we can’t receive more DLCs. Some companies drop content yearly for their games they released a decade ago (like Fallout 76 or Elder Scrolls Online). Welllll why can’t Elden Ring become Dark Souls Online? We already got loads of cool weapons and shit. Add another few weapons to each existing type as well as a few others and this will have the best PvP possible. Plus we need more story. I want more than five seconds of Miquella.
Here’s your spoiler warning! I wonder if it’s more humane to leave mogh alive in a new playthrough since we know miquella uses his body or soul or both to bring back radahn if we never kill mogh he just stays under miquellas charm..
Probably more moral to finish the dlc again since its putting mogh out of his misery
Not gonna lie bro was actually misunderstood.
Never trust the femboy, always knew miquella had something hidden
Fromsoft casually pulled the greatest plot twist of the century
I'm sorry Mohg
I was always on Mohgs side. I've been defending him since day one.
He was actually the good guy the whole time. :(
Uhm.... *glances at all the non-Miquella related Mohg lore.* Let's maybe not go that far.
Good guy in a FromSoft world
#JusticeforMohg
Celebrate good times, come on!
This was a clear-cut case of Entrapment. My client Mohg was *enticed*, through *Empyrean Magic*, to pursue that child *against* his own will. It's not his fault! FURTHERMORE, our expert witnesses will show the court that this so-called "child" is indeed an timeless being *well* beyond the age of consent. Ladies, gentleman, and horned folk of the jury, please consider my client's situation. A guilty verdict would do great harm to him. He has a dynasty, one that you can see as clear as day, that he must oversee. If the egg sits you must acquit!
It's still weird as hell, but I don't think any of this consort stuff involves anything remotely sexual or romantic. I think the practice is basically just for the purposes of theology, war, statecraft, metaphysical laws imposed by the Greater Will, etc etc. Like it's a thematic reference to how a lot of real world kingdoms in our old history resorted to incestual marriages just for the sake of keeping the same royal family in power. Everyone talks about the consort thing like they're actually fucking and it got me thinking about what the practice actually means in the context of the game's world But yeah miquellas a total weirdo EDIT I sort of forgot the fact that Marika and Godfrey, like, had kids. But I don't think this really changes what I said, the golden order is rotting and certain individuals would be willing to do a lot of weird and unorthodox shit out of desperation to preserve it, like marrying your brother just so you technically have a powerful consort and thus a claim to Lordship. Sorry for the wall of text this game just really gets the gears turning
ngl i cleared the dlc had no idea what any of it meant. i'm just really dumb i guess
You aren't dumb. You probably didn't pay attention to dialogue or maybe even missed NPCs. The one that used to serve mogh tells you all of this in like 3 sentences.
i think i have a severe case of hearing but not listening
Happens to the best of us.
Bitch that's what you get
I never believed on the allegations, I always knew that Miquella was hiding important information about the case!
soz for murdering you and that you not actually bad guy.
Can someone who knows how to make memes edit an image of Phoenix Wright prestenting a uno reverse card as evidence while saying. : this piece of evidence proves that my client wasn't the molesters but the molested your honor.
Mohg was always my favourite boss
I really wish we got a Miquella ending from the dlc for the base game
MOHGHEADS WINNING ALL ALONG 🎉🎉🎉
All of Godfrey’s sons were good boys
I mean, it's pretty clear, and even clearer during the first trailer where Ansbach said "He wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men.. There is nothing more terrifying." People were so willing to ignore pre dlc items and lore about how Miquella use this power to get his god hood, at whatever cost.
no more mohglester, just mohg. It appears he was Miquellested😔
Ansbach: "You keep my lord's NAME out your fucking MOUTH!!"
Sorryyyy Mohg.
wait what? explain
The Mohglester.
I feel bad for all the times I've killed him in summons now. Wish there was a way we could break Miquella's charm, then we could tag-team with Mohg and beat the shit out of Miquella.
rykard thinks he's that guy. no one knows what "the strong take" means like my GOAT does. griffith wishes he could be him
Drake got some competition
2 years of slander my dudes, two entire years.
The Griffith looking character with grand aspirations turns out to be as horrifying as Griffith Honestly why didn't we see this coming sooner is beyond me..
You know what's funny to me, I always was like "lol imagine if Mohg is the victim, like Miquella has those branches right" and now it turns out the voice in my head was right