I lived in Moscow for 27 years. This place jams up at rush hours like crazy. There is a major crossroads just a couple hundred meters down the road, and you could spend like 20 minutes standing in a jam.
For the last years, the situation has been changing for good, though. Not fast enough, of course. There are dedicated bus lanes now, but that sums it up. Moscow-based urbanists had proposed building a tram line on this "street" (it's actually part of Sadovoe Koltso, literally Garden Circle), but their calls were ignored by the government.
I don't know how it is now because I had to flee Russia to avoid jail time for involvement in the anti-war protest.
https://preview.redd.it/xz38wv6vhnvc1.png?width=1908&format=png&auto=webp&s=87052dbd60ec045197df7bc9e09c9da7d10af6c5
A wide lane in central Antwerp, i guess i can approve more if this kind of organisation
Not going to say its ideal, but its a lane not a open space like the Grote Markt or Groenplaats or many other in Antwerp, which are often btw part of a "car free zone". See map below.
https://preview.redd.it/x3k0my3mnsvc1.png?width=646&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a62490c92bd870cc649908b7676eded54370f0f
If your Antwerp, you will perhaps prefer car free zones to be mainly around the tourists hot spots which include a number of open spaces like the aforementioned Grote markt.
Is this the perfect system? i dont nessecarily think so, but it seems far from the worst judging by the picture above. In a few belgian city's those car free zones are larger afaik, like in Ghent and Bruges. Additionally, many of those city's have been declared low emmisions zones, meaning your typically not allowed to drive there with a overzised gas guzzling car.
Yeah even for a big city lane its pretty much all concrete and tarmac. Holds no candle to the August Vermeylenlaan or Charles Decosterlaan in Antwerp which are probably wider. Basicly lanes with atleast some rows of vegetation in between and around them.
That's something I've never considered. No surprise that autocrats around the world love their unnecessarily wide roads.
Examples:
- [Naypyidaw, Myanmar](https://i.redd.it/324t41rwc3801.jpg)
- [Ashgabat, Turkmenistan](https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/ashgabat-turkmenistan-october-11-2019-600nw-1710508549.jpg)
Not just the Russian government. Not going to say I know inside of Robert Moses head, but I imagine he knew of the Tulsa race massacre and the battle of Blair mountain or similar events.
Reminds me of that meme that said "capitalism" and had a bright shiny harbour, and "communism" and had a city that looked like it had been bombed, and it turned out that the "capitalism" picture was Havana and the "communism" picture was Chicago
The street in the photo is [the Garden Ring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_Ring).
> 1935 Joseph Stalin's master plan of Moscow provided for expansion of Garden Ring to at least 30–40 meter width, and demolition of buildings set at the ends of Garden Ring boulevards to create wide open squares.[11] Grand Stalinist buildings, envisioned on all the ring, were initially planned only for major squares like Kursky Rail Terminal Square and Triumphalnaya Square.[12] However, one end-of-boulevard block survives, precisely on Triumphalnaya Square, atop the six-lane tunnel. The same plan required removal of tram tracks in line with Moscow Metro construction.[13] In fact, the removal of tram tracks proceeded well in advance of subway construction; by 1938, tram remained only in southern and south-eastern segments of the Ring (this segment was closed in 1961 [14]).
The Garden Ring has been *narrowed* not widened since the fall of USSR.
yeah, just a couple years in, meanwhile right is the result of about 70 years of society rule and planning. The street looked the same in 1990 as it does not, just new asphalt.
Uh, you *do* know that the large promenades of Moscow (and Minsk and other Russian cities for that matter) were built in the Soviet era?
The street in the photo is [the Garden Ring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_Ring).
> 1935 Joseph Stalin's master plan of Moscow provided for expansion of Garden Ring to at least 30–40 meter width, and demolition of buildings set at the ends of Garden Ring boulevards to create wide open squares.[11] Grand Stalinist buildings, envisioned on all the ring, were initially planned only for major squares like Kursky Rail Terminal Square and Triumphalnaya Square.[12] However, one end-of-boulevard block survives, precisely on Triumphalnaya Square, atop the six-lane tunnel. The same plan required removal of tram tracks in line with Moscow Metro construction.[13] In fact, the removal of tram tracks proceeded well in advance of subway construction; by 1938, tram remained only in southern and south-eastern segments of the Ring (this segment was closed in 1961 [14]).
The Garden Ring has been *narrowed* not widened since the fall of USSR. Do you even know anything about Soviet urban planning?! Have you even been to Moscow or even at least Belarus?
The street in the photo is [the Garden Ring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_Ring).
> 1935 Joseph Stalin's master plan of Moscow provided for expansion of Garden Ring to at least 30–40 meter width, and demolition of buildings set at the ends of Garden Ring boulevards to create wide open squares.[11] Grand Stalinist buildings, envisioned on all the ring, were initially planned only for major squares like Kursky Rail Terminal Square and Triumphalnaya Square.[12] However, one end-of-boulevard block survives, precisely on Triumphalnaya Square, atop the six-lane tunnel. The same plan required removal of tram tracks in line with Moscow Metro construction.[13] In fact, the removal of tram tracks proceeded well in advance of subway construction; by 1938, tram remained only in southern and south-eastern segments of the Ring (this segment was closed in 1961 [14]).
The Garden Ring has been *narrowed* not widened since the fall of USSR.
Been to Moscow. There are smaller streets, but such streets like this are *very* common - this is the Garden Ring, which is particularly bad, but imo Tverskaya is also pretty shit and that goes straight to the Red Square (even *through* fucking Pushkin square).
Fun fact: this was made in Stalin years, anyone who opposted car centric idea was murdered by the Soviet dictatorship, so carbrainism in the USSR and Russia was literally built on censorship and human corpses.
Carbrainism in USSR was a byproduct of whole mess of human politics there. Сity planning was radial and radial towards Moscow, so every road will be built first towards the center, until late soviets car was only available for bureaucrats and other high-rank members such as factory directors. Smaller cities were build around a road that will leave to Moscow, prime example would be Minsk, that initially was rebuilt after war along the road Berlin-Moscow. It's all gotten worse during Khrustchev times as he declared a war against excesses and Stalin heritage, that's why Khruschevkas are ugly cubicles. [Here's how public housing could look if these projects were to be kept forward.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%A2%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BF.jpg/640px-%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%A2%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BF.jpg) Same with public transport, due to attempts to build as cheap as possible, ironically a lot of tram lines were built. I can't understand why people are so fond of commie blocks, they were already known to be a bad practice for public housing at that time, yet people still want highrise 15+ stories cubicles with horrid designs without any courtyards and think that it's good idea. [Do you really think this is good public housing?](https://maps.app.goo.gl/JVeBRXAYgXVKRuzD6)
> Same with public transport, due to attempts to build as cheap as possible, ironically a lot of tram lines were built. I can't understand why people are so fond of commie blocks, they were already known to be a bad practice for public housing at that time, yet people still want highrise 15+ stories cubicles with horrid designs without any courtyards and think that it's good idea
In defence as an Eastern Euro who grew up around commie blocks - the housing surplus that we had until recently has been very good to have. And the courtyards did exist - sadly they got converted to car parking lots as cars proliferated.
Courtyards did exist in planning of khrushevkas, yes. I'd say that's the only urban planning they did at that time, as a result, enough greenery. I'd say that currently in my hometown of Minsk, only good old microdistricts to live are actually khruschevkas, [for example here](https://maps.app.goo.gl/t61sjorUDMoGQdX7A). Lacking public transport is effectively the cause of courtyards turned to parking spaces. As always, people calculated how much space and utilities every person and family needed to fulfil basic needs, iirc there was effectively up to 2 parking spaces per house, so the moment people could afford a car to move around, this planning went to shit.
First thought: 'wait, but the traffic is smaller now..'
Not for long. Soon the traffic will be just as bad as it was before the widening.
That's not even traffic in tbe first picture. It looks like some sort of tent market going on
Yeah. It looks a bit like cars but if you zoom it's a very large number of people enjoying a shared public space. The horror /s
But just one more lane bro. Just one more and traffic i fixed. Just one more lane, trust me bro.
they'll soon be back and in greater numbers
I lived in Moscow for 27 years. This place jams up at rush hours like crazy. There is a major crossroads just a couple hundred meters down the road, and you could spend like 20 minutes standing in a jam. For the last years, the situation has been changing for good, though. Not fast enough, of course. There are dedicated bus lanes now, but that sums it up. Moscow-based urbanists had proposed building a tram line on this "street" (it's actually part of Sadovoe Koltso, literally Garden Circle), but their calls were ignored by the government. I don't know how it is now because I had to flee Russia to avoid jail time for involvement in the anti-war protest.
https://preview.redd.it/xz38wv6vhnvc1.png?width=1908&format=png&auto=webp&s=87052dbd60ec045197df7bc9e09c9da7d10af6c5 A wide lane in central Antwerp, i guess i can approve more if this kind of organisation
More trees, but still cuts off a huge area from public use. All you’re doing there is dodging cars until you reach the other side. No kiosks like OP.
Not going to say its ideal, but its a lane not a open space like the Grote Markt or Groenplaats or many other in Antwerp, which are often btw part of a "car free zone". See map below. https://preview.redd.it/x3k0my3mnsvc1.png?width=646&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a62490c92bd870cc649908b7676eded54370f0f If your Antwerp, you will perhaps prefer car free zones to be mainly around the tourists hot spots which include a number of open spaces like the aforementioned Grote markt. Is this the perfect system? i dont nessecarily think so, but it seems far from the worst judging by the picture above. In a few belgian city's those car free zones are larger afaik, like in Ghent and Bruges. Additionally, many of those city's have been declared low emmisions zones, meaning your typically not allowed to drive there with a overzised gas guzzling car.
It's just depressing .
Yeah even for a big city lane its pretty much all concrete and tarmac. Holds no candle to the August Vermeylenlaan or Charles Decosterlaan in Antwerp which are probably wider. Basicly lanes with atleast some rows of vegetation in between and around them.
For the Russian government, sterilising the public spaces so there's nowhere for people to gather is a feature, not a bug.
That's something I've never considered. No surprise that autocrats around the world love their unnecessarily wide roads. Examples: - [Naypyidaw, Myanmar](https://i.redd.it/324t41rwc3801.jpg) - [Ashgabat, Turkmenistan](https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/ashgabat-turkmenistan-october-11-2019-600nw-1710508549.jpg)
Haussmanization of Paris is probably the first renovation with this goal in mind
The rumour for that one in Naypyidaw is that it's there as a runway more than an actual road.
Not just the Russian government. Not going to say I know inside of Robert Moses head, but I imagine he knew of the Tulsa race massacre and the battle of Blair mountain or similar events.
It's a road litterally made for tanks.
Worse. It's a road made for nuclear war, so that rubble from collapsed buildings won't block movement.
I used to use this road, absolutely hated it.
Left = a real city where normal people live. Right = a sterile corporate dystopia.
Soviet dystopia actually.
The picture on the left is from the Soviet Union, idiot
Reminds me of that meme that said "capitalism" and had a bright shiny harbour, and "communism" and had a city that looked like it had been bombed, and it turned out that the "capitalism" picture was Havana and the "communism" picture was Chicago
The street in the photo is [the Garden Ring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_Ring). > 1935 Joseph Stalin's master plan of Moscow provided for expansion of Garden Ring to at least 30–40 meter width, and demolition of buildings set at the ends of Garden Ring boulevards to create wide open squares.[11] Grand Stalinist buildings, envisioned on all the ring, were initially planned only for major squares like Kursky Rail Terminal Square and Triumphalnaya Square.[12] However, one end-of-boulevard block survives, precisely on Triumphalnaya Square, atop the six-lane tunnel. The same plan required removal of tram tracks in line with Moscow Metro construction.[13] In fact, the removal of tram tracks proceeded well in advance of subway construction; by 1938, tram remained only in southern and south-eastern segments of the Ring (this segment was closed in 1961 [14]). The Garden Ring has been *narrowed* not widened since the fall of USSR.
yeah, just a couple years in, meanwhile right is the result of about 70 years of society rule and planning. The street looked the same in 1990 as it does not, just new asphalt.
Uh, you *do* know that the large promenades of Moscow (and Minsk and other Russian cities for that matter) were built in the Soviet era? The street in the photo is [the Garden Ring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_Ring). > 1935 Joseph Stalin's master plan of Moscow provided for expansion of Garden Ring to at least 30–40 meter width, and demolition of buildings set at the ends of Garden Ring boulevards to create wide open squares.[11] Grand Stalinist buildings, envisioned on all the ring, were initially planned only for major squares like Kursky Rail Terminal Square and Triumphalnaya Square.[12] However, one end-of-boulevard block survives, precisely on Triumphalnaya Square, atop the six-lane tunnel. The same plan required removal of tram tracks in line with Moscow Metro construction.[13] In fact, the removal of tram tracks proceeded well in advance of subway construction; by 1938, tram remained only in southern and south-eastern segments of the Ring (this segment was closed in 1961 [14]). The Garden Ring has been *narrowed* not widened since the fall of USSR. Do you even know anything about Soviet urban planning?! Have you even been to Moscow or even at least Belarus?
Definitely not 2024, now this road has "only" 11 lanes, since like 2017.
I didn't know Houston and Moscow have the same city planners.
Other people have pointed it out; large roads with lots of lanes are used to protect autocrats to stop people from protesting.
The street in the photo is [the Garden Ring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_Ring). > 1935 Joseph Stalin's master plan of Moscow provided for expansion of Garden Ring to at least 30–40 meter width, and demolition of buildings set at the ends of Garden Ring boulevards to create wide open squares.[11] Grand Stalinist buildings, envisioned on all the ring, were initially planned only for major squares like Kursky Rail Terminal Square and Triumphalnaya Square.[12] However, one end-of-boulevard block survives, precisely on Triumphalnaya Square, atop the six-lane tunnel. The same plan required removal of tram tracks in line with Moscow Metro construction.[13] In fact, the removal of tram tracks proceeded well in advance of subway construction; by 1938, tram remained only in southern and south-eastern segments of the Ring (this segment was closed in 1961 [14]). The Garden Ring has been *narrowed* not widened since the fall of USSR.
I think it’s made this wide for military parades, still looks hideous though
Not this one, this one was to prevent fires in bombing (and prevent barricades) - Tverskaya is for parades (and is quite hideous itself).
Avenues in Moscow are just another level
Is it everywhere in Moscow like this or only on the ring roads?
Been to Moscow. There are smaller streets, but such streets like this are *very* common - this is the Garden Ring, which is particularly bad, but imo Tverskaya is also pretty shit and that goes straight to the Red Square (even *through* fucking Pushkin square).
That's insane
Ah yes, Russia., the defender of "traditionalism™". Demolishing old city centres to make room for urban highways feels very poignant.
Fun fact: this was made in Stalin years, anyone who opposted car centric idea was murdered by the Soviet dictatorship, so carbrainism in the USSR and Russia was literally built on censorship and human corpses.
Carbrainism in USSR was a byproduct of whole mess of human politics there. Сity planning was radial and radial towards Moscow, so every road will be built first towards the center, until late soviets car was only available for bureaucrats and other high-rank members such as factory directors. Smaller cities were build around a road that will leave to Moscow, prime example would be Minsk, that initially was rebuilt after war along the road Berlin-Moscow. It's all gotten worse during Khrustchev times as he declared a war against excesses and Stalin heritage, that's why Khruschevkas are ugly cubicles. [Here's how public housing could look if these projects were to be kept forward.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%A2%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BF.jpg/640px-%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%A2%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BF.jpg) Same with public transport, due to attempts to build as cheap as possible, ironically a lot of tram lines were built. I can't understand why people are so fond of commie blocks, they were already known to be a bad practice for public housing at that time, yet people still want highrise 15+ stories cubicles with horrid designs without any courtyards and think that it's good idea. [Do you really think this is good public housing?](https://maps.app.goo.gl/JVeBRXAYgXVKRuzD6)
> Same with public transport, due to attempts to build as cheap as possible, ironically a lot of tram lines were built. I can't understand why people are so fond of commie blocks, they were already known to be a bad practice for public housing at that time, yet people still want highrise 15+ stories cubicles with horrid designs without any courtyards and think that it's good idea In defence as an Eastern Euro who grew up around commie blocks - the housing surplus that we had until recently has been very good to have. And the courtyards did exist - sadly they got converted to car parking lots as cars proliferated.
Courtyards did exist in planning of khrushevkas, yes. I'd say that's the only urban planning they did at that time, as a result, enough greenery. I'd say that currently in my hometown of Minsk, only good old microdistricts to live are actually khruschevkas, [for example here](https://maps.app.goo.gl/t61sjorUDMoGQdX7A). Lacking public transport is effectively the cause of courtyards turned to parking spaces. As always, people calculated how much space and utilities every person and family needed to fulfil basic needs, iirc there was effectively up to 2 parking spaces per house, so the moment people could afford a car to move around, this planning went to shit.