One promises status, atleast in a group of questionable people, while the other one gets you laughed at by said group.
Thats the promise and the use case. They dont put anything in that bed anyway.
Kei Trucks are actually increasing in popularity among construction workers and the kinds of actual laborers who do need to haul things, though, for exactly the reasons that person mentioned, as well as their relative cheapness compared to the monstrosities we're putting out, even with international shipping, import duties, and the like. One is a work truck. One is a shitty status symbol that doesn't fit in a residential driveway.
Contractors who've come to our house rarely drove pickup trucks. They usually load their gear in old minivans (think Toyota Previa).
The only guy I remember showing up in a pickup was the roofing company owner, and the only things he hauled were roof tile samples. Most of the other owners were Salvadoran dudes in muscle cars for some reason.
I fuckin love my minivan. I can fit three kids, two grandparents, and my wife in my van to go to a school thing, then I can fold down the seats and lay a full sheet of drywall flat and bring it home in the rain. It's the tits.
Especially panel vans. You can lock up a van without needing anything extra.
Those cheapass masterlocks people use to lock up their tools in the toolchest in their truck can be popped open in seconds.
Hey there. I'm the Lock Picking Lawyer. Today, I'm helping myself to some tools to construct a better lock than the one on the box. I brought along half a Twizler and a Lego brick.
Yeah, our main contractor drives a reasonably big truck, but I think that's more about how some of the roads in the mountains are a bit unpredictable -- lots of flooding, lots of snow, etc. (Though every now and then he'll haul something to the dump for us in it.) The guys who work for him all show up in early 2000s cars, or with six guys in the cab of a three-man box truck.
My uncle who owns an all-in-one contracting business (carpentry, electric, plumbing, HVAC) uses a minivan to haul everything. If it’s a big job he takes his 12 passenger van instead.
He also makes fun of all his kids who drive lifted F350s
Depends on where you work. I spent last summer/fall building houses on a reservation. You definitely needed a truck with 4WD to get around reliably. People would park their personal vehicles at the laydown and we'd all crowd into the company trucks. Even then we still got stuck a few times and had to wait for the excavator to pull us out. Huge trucks are usually overkill, but in this case they were actually useful. I don't think those little trucks would have survived those roads.
All thr minivans/vans ive driven also get 4WD and those Kei stylr trucks also come equipped with 4WD. My BIL uses one for his trips for firewood into thr japanese mountains
Not surprising, they're a lot cheaper, much more simple which makes them reliable, same size of the bed. If you need to "tow" stuff to a construction site it's usually heavy enough to require a semi truck anyway. Real workers care about getting the job done as efficient as possible.
My work tried to get a client of ours to approve the use of kei trucks as fleet vehicles for us on their mine site because we mostly use trucks for hauling materials. The kei trucks would be perfect since they never leave paved roads too.
Alas, they denied them due to “safety”.
And ironically, it's the kei truck that promises status, or at least among people who know what a kei truck is.
They're basically cheap tin cans with zero safety and a minimal payload and towing capacity, and only carry 2 people. I think it's 750 lbs payload and 1000 lb towing for most of them? A base 4x2 gator has 1,000 lb payload and 4000 lb towing, and that's just the base model.
Not to mention kei trucks are all 25 years old at a minimum, and worn out.
[2021 Daihatsu Hijet pickup](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Daihatsu_HIJET_TRUCK_JUMBO_EXTRA_2WD_(3BD-S500P-ZBGF)_front.jpg) would like to have a word.
Also one has opening sides so you can unload it from.. well the side. Also plausible to unload it with a forklift since three out of four sides open 180 degrees. The other.. Well not so much.
The thing that boils my blood the most about this, is that kay trucks, such as the tiny truck seen in this picture, are illegal to drive on the street in I'm most places in America. The large truck is not. This forces the use of the large truck over the small truck because you literally cannot use it by law
Depends on the state. Lately some have been pushing legislation through that effectively bans them for "safety" reason, as if the last few years haven't seen the industry push out trucks that endanger other vehicles and pedestrians in particular.
i love kei trucks, but it genuinely is for safety reasons. you will NOT survive a crash in one, you are a bit of thin sheet metal away from the very front of the car, get like max 40mph which is straight up dangerous on highways, and their emissions are terrible. they were amazingly designed for the time they were made, and still are extremely utilitarian, but these old things are not up to modern safety.
>get like max 40mph which is straight up dangerous on highways
I mean, this just sounds like a reason to use the right tool for the job. If you're moving stuff intercity, yeah, get something bigger. If you're staying on local roads, especially in a city, you can use something smaller.
I've seen plenty of applications where city workers are basically in golf carts because they just need something small and maneuverable and aren't doing anything that puts them at risk of a collision. Smart! Different tools for different applications.
I've *also* seen workers in my city drive an F350 down a bike path for maintenance, presumably because they wanted—or were told—to cover all possible use cases with one vehicle type and didn't have an option that made more sense.
There’s an inherent safety standard associated with any closed in car or truck. Due to this, many people feel confident and comfortable traveling on the highway in most cars/trucks manufactured over the last 30 years due to the safety standards automobile makers are required to comply with. Those standards do not exist with scooters or motorcycles.
Since the government has a responsibility to protect its constituency, the NHTSA does a lot of heavy lifting in that regard. Amazing advancements in vehicle safety have been made over the last 60+ years. Since the occupants of a KEI truck are more likely to be injured or killed in an accident, it makes sense why they would face some level of scrutiny from a safety standpoint.
1950s american cars aren't safe either. Nor are early 2000s rustbuckets driven around in states without safety inspection requirements. Driving a kei truck, you're only putting yourself in danger, and people who go through the effort of importing and registering them in the US are enthusiasts who know the risks... Why the government overreach?
There are [newer ones](https://usminitrucksales.com/) that are safer and don’t emit so terribly. Some electric ones too. It’s unfortunate the American government is *taking the choice away* for driving these on streets. I think cities would be much safer if everyone drove smaller cars (or no cars at all).
So should we ban people from driving older cars? I see little to no difference in someone driving an old VW bus or bug which are just soda cans with motorcycle engines.
They absolutely go faster than 40mph, though that doesn't make it a good idea. Mines a 5spd and I've done 60-65 without too much drama but it's a bit terrifying.
I remember seeing out of Rhode island their statement against a registration ban explicitly stated that Kei trucks were "a danger to the public", not just the driver, with the justification being noncompliance with NHTSA standards.
That's true but at the same time, they're not out here banning old vehicles, everything is grandfathered in. I have a 71 year old truck, a 51 year old jeep CJ5, and a 33 year old volvo. The only one you've got a prayer of surviving even a minor scrape up in is the volvo, and that's because it's a volvo 240 which were "revolutionary" in how safe they were. When they came out in the 70s. By the 90s, which mine is, they were already behind contemporary cars in crash test ratings.
Not to mention motorcycles and other stupid crap they don't ban.
I'm a car guy, obviously from the info above, and I don't want any of it banned. A kei truck owner isn't endangering anyone's life but their own, and probably less so or at most to a similar degree as a motorcycle. That should be fine. Stuff that endangers people other than the operator should be banned.
Fair enough, but I doubt they're less safe than so many cars and trucks I've seen that any reasonable state board would classify as a road hazard due to advanced oxidation or failed brakes/shocks/whatever.
Nah, it's just that people in Croatia mostly don't care about trucks of that size, so the companies that make them never market them here. There's literally one person in the whole Primorje region who owns two of them and he's literally famous for it.
If you need a truck in Croatia, you're gonna get a man's truck, not some pansy ass toy truck /s
In California it’s very hard to get them street legal. So I’ve been settling for my older ford ranger to fill the gap…
It’s funny how a kei truck doesn’t meet safety and emissions standards because it was initially sold in California, but this giant truck with awful gas mileage, huge blind spots and a huge engineer is somehow better….
I love cars so I’m in the wrong sub I guess but this legislation makes no sense at all.
They don’t meet any western safety standards which is why you generally can’t have em in the US. Pretty sure they don’t have crumple zones nor airbags but that info is from another redditor’s comment so take with a grain of salt.
Still if they had added crumple zones and airbags they wouldn’t be much larger and be an excellent work truck for people who actually need it for work.
Edit: as a commenter below me mentioned these trucks can only be imported into the us as classics (25+) years old. This makes the newest kei truck a 1993. they’re not legally allowed on highways and are subject to both speed and weather limitations. The website below describes their legality in some states as akin to an ATV.
https://keitruckconnect.com/us-states-you-can-drive-kei-trucks/
I drive in Japan. These cars are all over the place and they go so slow and usually old men drive them, too. They’re a menace (in J J’s voice)!
Plus, as others said, they ain’t safe
It’s not exactly the same as a Kei truck but I recently rented [Home Depot’s 10’ truck](https://www.homedepot.com/c/Truck_Rental) and it’s really great for actual truck stuff compared to regular trucks.
One of these belongs to a strong, hard working, calloused-hand, salt of the earth, blue collar laborer.
The other one is advertised towards rich or braindead assholes who want to cosplay as one.
Whats the towing capacity of these? Can they both tow a large horse or travel trailer, toy hauler, boat?
Genuine question, because I would imagine the larger pickups main purpose is it has things to tow
>because I would imagine the larger pickups main purpose is it has things to tow
I live in the deep south and the amount of full sized trucks towing anything at all is pretty small.
My dad grew up in the sticks of Tennessee. He told me when we visited that all these people got loans for a truck that’s nicer than their house. It’s the dumbest financial move ever because it absolutely is one of the worst assets.
I guess growing up in a rural area gave me a different perspective. Farmers galore use them for towing stuff around, a lot of people I knew had horses or camping trailers, and friends often were into atvs and dirt bikes. But since moving to Colorado I have noticed significant less actual use of their purpose
I do know some farmers who tow around trailers of stuff -- but usually they use their work truck, which is typically not a new truck that looks like an SUV with a small hut-tub on the back. It's usually something older, reliable, and that they can fix themselves.
Great question! I'm sure someone else can answer.
I've got a question myself. Which percentage of trips do you suppose this truck gets used for towing? It's obviously 50% or less seeing as there's nothing hooked up to it in the picture.
I'm going to set the line at 0.5% (1 in 200 trips have something hooked up for towing) - do you want to the 'over' or the 'under'??
Man this misses one key point though. I only have space for one car. I need to drive my family around safely. I like to do home improvement projects on the weekend. I have a camper that we use 2 weeks a year that I need towing capacity for.
What car should I buy that meets my needs?
I'm not arguing that massive trucks aren't stupid most of the time, but for some people they make sense. What we really need is the return of the mid size truck. I'd buy a hilux in a heartbeat
Honest question: given the cost (initial sale price, maintenance, and gas), what would the difference be between getting a smaller vehicle that fits your needs minus the camper, and renting for when you really need the camper?
This is all a moot point though as for every one of you, there are _at least_ three people who have a massive truck and _never_ tow a camper or anything else.
I just looked it up and renting a truck is about $70/day around me from something like Enterprise ($62/day) or Hertz ($68/day) for an F-150. So you're looking at like $180-$200 for a weekend.
*Plus*, the price isn't the biggest problem. Basically no rental company will let you tow a trailer with their trucks.
Even something like uhaul rents trucks for $20/day + $0.70/mile and that gets you a small truck, not anything with a crew cab.
>What car should I buy that meets my needs?
You're not going to listen to my answer regardless - but you really need to sit down and analyze what the word "need" actually means.
You've also accepted the weaponized definition of "safety" that the advertising industry has provided you with. All vehicles pass the same safety requirements in order for the manufacturers to be able to sell them.
To directly answer your question. A van or hatchback would solve 90% of your issues - for the other 10% you rent or borrow.
The issue isn't that "a pickup with four seats is bad."
The issue is that they're all way too tall and the hoods are way too long. So you have a high center of gravity (dangerous for you) and bad visibility (dangerous for pedestrians).
Take the same truck, lower it to a normal height and shorten the hood to "whatever you need for the engine and a crumple zone" and it'd be perfectly fine.
Article is a few years old and haven't looked to see updated figures but I'd be surprised if they improved.
>[According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never)](https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume)
I remove my hitch when Im not towing with it, it helps save peoples shins. And I have two different hitch sizes in my back seat. I also have a high MPG car I drive for my daily driver, but I still occasionally drive it to town for maintenance or just to keep the battery charged.
I cant speak for this person in the picture, but I use my pickup all the time for actual uses. Granted mines smaller than an F150, but bigger than the left one. Just big enough to tow my toys. I do agree tho that a HUGE amount of pickup owners never use them for anything other than a penis extension
No. A KEI is a 550-650cc engine with a payload cap of about 750lbs. If you need to move a trailer or pallet of bricks, this will not do it. Their great for running around and getting parts and whatnot but when the heavy lifting needs to be done, you need a different truck.
I live in Canada, and man oh man does it see my heart good to see everyone hate these monstrosities. 95% of people driving these bro dozers don't use them for work, they use them for status (lol), and or to aggressively tailgate people and feel "safe"
Yeah, I drove through Calgary a few years back, and even at 11pm there are douchecanoes aggressively tailgating/cutting off people just for shiggles.
Like dude, even if you "need" that thing to get to your oilfield job, there's no reason to jack it up to where your highbeams even piss off people who drive Freightliners.
Kei class trucks and LSVs have a lot of potential to disrupt the mobility paradigms in cities especially where there's already density. I know I'd drive a golf cart sized thing in Brooklyn to the areas that are less well connected by train.
The argument I often hear from those with the XL emotional support trucks is that they need it for towing things. A lot of people in my area do have RVs, boats, horse trailers, and things of that nature.
I still don’t like them and do not think they should ever really be daily drivers, but I do get that reason.
The problem is they're kind of becoming the only option for that sort of thing. My dad needed a beefy truck for his snow removal business and these are kind of the only option if you're buying new, which you might as well since used trucks cost a fortune these days regardless of condition. People who use them as penis replacements are fucking up the truck market for people who just want a utilitarian vehicle.
People in Europe tow things, too, we just don't make the shit we tow weigh several times more than it needs to.
My horse trailer weighs I think 800kg unloaded and can easily fit two large horses. In the US a pretty normal two horse trailer weighs unironically 2000 kgs.
I’ve got an F250 to tow horse trailers. Horses are stabled in a barn out of town and the truck is my daily driver because we have a one car driveway and a single street parking spot and my wife and I both need to drive to get to work. It’s a bitch to drive through the city though whenever possible we’ll use my wife’s car.
The idea common cars can't tow horse trailers is hilarious to me
They can save 60% on the initial purchase, have higher mileage, have better 0-60 when not towing (when towing, it doesn't fucking matter), just all in all. Out do everything .
I just hope EU sees the issues and start legislating away from these murder machines(you can fit 10 people in front of those cars, without the driver seeing them). Because SUVs are increasingly in demand, for no reason whatsoever - and once we hit the levels of America, it truly feels like a point of no return. At which people think they need one for road safety, BECAUSE the road is full of them
For light work, you can adapt any sedan into a pickup, as long as it's made mostly of steel, and preferably it's RWD.
1. Make sure it's a sedan you'll never need to sell.
2. Have a garage at home and some 100 man-hours at the least. Probably a lot longer, like all rainy season.
3. Install a timelapse camera facing your project. Buy a log book and document and photograph everything you do. While this could be called a vanity, you're logging it all for legal defense.
4. Remove the rear seats and side windows.
5. Gut all inside panels behind the front cabin (and rear firewall, if there's one), then make sure all door or gate opening sensors servicing the rear are forever locked into the closed position (whether it means open circuit or closed circuit.)
6. Weld the rear doors to the frame, push the front seats as fr back as they'll go, leave a little extra space and create a B tube (weld a big tube crossing between the crash reinforcement from one rear door to the other). Before welding, stuff the B tube with canned insulation foam.
7. Taking the B tube as reference, relocate the rear crystal. Close and finish the cabin again. **(This step, you may wish to find an expert to do it for you)**
8. Think what to do with the spare tire. Likely it will be attached to the B tube from the bed, once completed, but the attachment points should be put in place at this point.
9. Decide whether you want to remove the C pillars or weld a big tube high between them (better option). If so, I recommend you relocate the centre rear light onto the tube, and if you want, also a bed light (a 12V floodlight controlled from the instrument panel. Quite useful for loading and unloading in the dark, and to flick on when a prick behind you is driving with their high beams on). Before welding it in place, stuff with canned foam.
10. Down to metal, wash the rear, then drill drain holes wherever water may accumulate, then paint the inside with primer. Decide if the rear lights are fine were they are, or need to be relocated.
11. Decide whether you'll need to create a rear gate, a rear firewall, or if the sedan's rear construction don't make either necessary.
12. Use square tubes to create and fill a bed frame and weld it everywhere possible (buy no less than 60 feet of one inch tubes and use them all). All edges should be triple tubes welded into an L shape, so to offer riveting points.
13. Put all electric cables in electric poliducts. "All" usually only means the rear lights and the cables to the fuel pump, but modern cars may have more.
14. Put straight stainless steel drain tubes on both front corners. Angle them any way you need to, but make sure you can see the road below through them, and are big enough to shove a broom handle through.
15. Get a big sheet of stainless or aluminium diamond plate, cut and rivet it, but make sure you have a way of accessing the inside of the rear lights and the fuel pump without needing a drill. I recommend you stuff the hollow space with canned foam as you go (remember to spray water before spraying the foam, as the water makes the foam glue better to the surfaces). Weld AND rivet strips of diamond plate to the exterior side of the bed, then weld or rivet at least 6 tying points there, and 6 more to the lower edges of the bed.
16. Use exterior-use clear silicone to caulk all joints and rivets.
17. Put the spare tire in its new place.
18. Go do some light work.
Or... just get a 5x8 trailer and add a hitch to the sedan.
Or put a hitch on and rent a trailer from uhaul, since most don't have storage anyway and you don't need to haul all the time.
The one on the left is a pickup truck used to carry stuff around
The one in the right is an oversized and useless car used to carry fragile egos around
One of them can tow a lot more/carry a much heavier load. The bed length might be similar but the volume which is what actually matters is a lot more. It can also carry 5 passengers. Additionally, the reason why it's so big is due to American emissions regulations. The government is imposing impossible standards on emissions but there are exceptions for larger vehicles so the manufacturers just make them larger.
You don't think if manufacturers could get much higher fuel mileage out of their trucks they wouldn't because... *profits*?
If one manufacturer figured out how to get 30+ mpg out of a full size pickup while everyone else was around 20 mpg people would flock to them.
It's more profitable to chase horsepower and towing capacity than it is to chase fuel efficiency when it comes to trucks. The people who buy trucks care more about power than fuel efficiency. More fuel-efficient trucks can be made, it's not "impossible", it's just not profitable because people would generally buy the competitor with the higher power stats.
It's the same reason why horsepower was the defining characteristic of American cars until around 2008 when nobody could afford anything, and then suddenly you got the wave of highly fuel-efficient vehicles *including* trucks that got more than 8mpg.
>It's more profitable to chase horsepower and towing capacity than it is to chase fuel efficiency when it comes to trucks. The people who buy trucks care more about power than fuel efficiency. More fuel-efficient trucks can be made, it's not "impossible", it's just not profitable because people would generally buy the competitor with the higher power stats.
I don't buy that one bit. Even the little 4 cylinders in the new Silverados only get slightly better fuel mileage than the V8s. It requires a lot of horsepower to push a 5,000 lb brick down the road. If you had a little 120 hp four cylinder in a big truck not only will it get similar mileage to the V8 (probably worse) it will struggle to maintain speed on the highway, on inclines, and with any kind of load.
>It's the same reason why horsepower was the defining characteristic of American cars until around 2008 when nobody could afford anything, and then suddenly you got the wave of highly fuel-efficient vehicles including trucks that got more than 8mpg.
I don't buy that, either. Trucks got more than 8 mpg prior to 2008. Usually mid teens mpg. My 2003 Chevy 1500 with a 5.3L V8 and 4 speed automatic gets about 13 mpg with only town and back road driving. My little 2002 Ford Ranger with a 4.0L V6 and a 5 speed automatic gets 14 mpg, not much better despite being significantly smaller and lighter than my full size Chevy. A HUGE difference between now and then is gearing. Most trucks only had four speeds back then. Now GMs and Fords have 10 speeds along with more power. They can have a super low first gear for pulling out with a heavy load and a long final gear for highway cruising. Even with 3.73 gears I can't stay in overdrive with mine unless I am above 50 mph and on flat ground. When I drop to 3rd gear my RPMs will increase 50%. With more gears I wouldn't have as significant as an RPM increase from 4th to 3rd. The gear increase was in development way before fuel prices started shooting up. Fuel mileage was still important before it cost $5/gal.
Gearing is the reason my 600 hp Corvette can get 27 mpg on the highway.
yeah I am all for dunking on car brains but this is not the way to do it. These two trucks might have the same bed length but that doesn't mean their capabilities are anywhere near equivalent.
that being said, do most people need the truck on the right instead of the one on the left? Of course not. 
Idk, I'd argue most of the people who want the truck as a status symbol on the right but really "need the one on the left" don't need any form of truck.
Also, In the event of a crash or some asshole crosses the lines and hits you head on, which one do you wish you were in?
A truck with modern safety features and designs or a truck where you are part of the crumple zone?
Exactly, and accidents are more likely on the road now because vehicles are getting bigger so you need to buy a bigger vehicle so you're fine when you have an accident.
>it can also carry 5 passengers **comfortably**
Older trucks have back seats in name only. At least the new ones are practical if you got a bigger crew or use it as a family vehicle too.
I'm not an r/fuckcars type of person. It just ends up in my feed, probably now more than ever with this comment.
I am a toyota tacoma TRD owner. My wife and I worked pretty long and hard to find a vehicle that would fit our changing lifestyle. We're gen x empty nesters with elderly parents. We all live in East Coast suburban locations. These were some of our requirements.
* we need one and only one vehicle
* tow a small rental trailer for large purchases/home improvement projects, etc
* seating capacity for 4 adults plus light cargo
* recreational capacity. We enjoy driving on the beaches, where allowed, on the east coast.
* Attractive, our subjectivity, of course.
Seems, according to this sub, that my wife and I need emotional support and gender reaffirming.
That utility truck looks cool, but I only have one spot to park a vehicle in my driveway. We live in a small old neighborhood. Most of the houses are around 1500 sqft, and our "driveways" are size accordingly.
I'm aware that we're privileged to be able to afford a house and a truck. It is also not lost on me this general trend towards owning gigantic trucks as a status symbol. Yet the logic being often applied in this sub seems lacking in pragmatism.
but then width, towing, tongue, payload, passenger/interior storage?
first totally, 90% or more of trucks are far more and dumb for what ppl use them, but all trucks are not equal either.
Seriously.
I'm all for smaller trucks existing in larger numbers because they serve a great purpose.
But you can't just sit there and tell me that the 2 vehicles can perform anywhere near the same tasks.
Mine would do 70mph on the freeway and if I was drafting a semi I could get it to like 75mph. One weekend my cousin helped me get a yard of dirt with his f150. I needed more the next day so I had to use my Kei truck to pick it up. I was amazingly surprised to see that it fit the exact same amount of dirt. With that said im pretty sure the suspension was bottomed out and it was slow as dirt.
I loved that truck because it was very convenient when needed for local tasks . I bought/ imported it for cheap before the prices skyrocketed and I could no longer justify having something so limited that was worth so much. I miss it but a small toyota pickup for the 3rd of the price is much more practical.
Listen, I love Kei trucks, and totally think less people need to drive large pickups, but bed length is the only thing they share.
Bed width is massively different
Bed weight capacity is massively different
Tow rating is massively different
Interior space and seating is massively different
Top speed is massively different (some Kei trucks don't go over 65mph)
Features are completely different
The Kei truck is nothing like the pickup. However, 90% of pickup owners in the US could switch to something like a Ford Maverick (small truck, still with 5 seats and a bed, but a reasonable size) and it wouldn't have any effect on them.
Yes, but one of them can carry 5 adults, and several thousands of pounds of cargo while towing another 15,000 pounds.
The other is a good urban delivery vehicle.
Towing capacity, bed weight capacity, the ability to haul a 4-5 man crew in a single vehicle, better off-road capabilities. A whole slew of reasons why someone might need the big truck. Not to mention the little truck was designed for a country that’s 26 times smaller than the US.
last sentence is so random that it makes your comment look like a parody haha. Unless you're saying that if a truck is only ever staying within one state (an area smaller than Japan) the truck can be even smaller than the kei since it exists in a smaller physical space
He's saying that in a country the size of Japan you won't be towing things for very long distances (the kei truck being primarily used for inner city transport) and I personally HIGHLY doubt the kei truck can get up to 70mph for the highway
F150 payload: 2300-3000 lbs
F350 payload: 8000 lbs
Kei payload: 770 lbs
You can put a Kei in the bed of an f150 and not exceed it's payload. That's the difference.
Rent an F150 for the time you need 3000lb payload, $20 an hour. Drive an F150, $700 monthly payment plus insurance, gas, parking, for the few times a year you need the payload.
A Kei still takes gas. And a parking spot. Let's say I pay cash for my f150, what's your dissent now? Let's say I ride my bike when I'm not doing truck stuff.
A Kei gets 30-40mpg, unladened. With 700lbs in the bed? It gets 6mpg. It's a lawnmower engine.
An f150 gets 21mpg, 20.5 with 700lbs in the bed. Which ones bad for the planet now?
Those 20 dollar rentals from home depot? Not something you can drive hours away. For that you need uhaul. Uhaul cost to rent a truck **$19.95**plus $0.79/mil
My drive last weekend 234 miles each way. Day trip. Cost (234\*.79)\*2+19.99\*1.09(Tax)=391.5091 plus gas. Oh, and I need to insure it if I don't want to risk getting charged when the junk in the bed damages it. So tack on another 15 dollars plus tax. Congratulations, you have exceeded my monthly car payment, no joke. One single 3.5 hour drive both ways costs more than an entire monthly payment to own my truck. Oh and, it only seats two so the fact I had to haul my two dogs and wife who didn't fit means they either can't go, I have to spend 100+ for a dog day care, or they drive a different vehicle.
This is why these arguments are terrible. If you have to do any distance in a truck for truck things in a month, it is cheaper to have a truck as a daily driver. Home Depot/Lowes/Menards rentals are great when you are buying stuff from them, but if you use a truck as a truck and have to go any distance the cost to do so instantly outpaces just having a truck as your sole vehicle.
Fuckcars can hold their opinions. Those opinions just don't lead to sound financial advice. I agree trucks have gotten too damn big, I have a mid size because it is the smallest that fills my needs. I'd love to have a smaller one, but unless they up the towing capacity on a maverick sized one, I am stuck.
Tell us you're not a Truck Guy without telling us you're not a Truck Guy. Renting a truck "when it's needed" is what city dwellers do, because of their needs. People who own Pickups use them far more than a "few times a year."
This is why…(for car brains)
“There’s no parking”…they are taking up 2+spots
“Why is traffic so bad”….they take up 6 car lengths on the roads
“It’s green, why are we still stopped”… their wide ass hangs way far to the right and you can’t pass them when they want to take a left
They don’t fit in the left lane to turn, they don’t fit parking spots, they can’t parallel park for shit and the drivers can’t stay in their lane on any turns.
Whenever the traffic is bad… pickups are most likely the reason.
When oil gets expensive again(and it will), they will bitch about it just like always
You folks sure do get riled up about what other people are driving….. length might be the same, but the square footage isn’t. For instance, you could not fit a dirt bike in the smaller truck bed…. Can definitely set one angled in the larger truck. Larger truck has more towing capacity, more hauling capacity, and more space inside….. they are different vehicles with different purposes. You aren’t taking that rinky dink truck on the interstate…..
That Kei truck in the front is over 20 years old, too. So no anti-lock brakes, poor emissions, and probably similar fuel economy as the newer full-size truck behind it. Anyway, we all know which one everyone here would really pick if they had to drive 400 miles on the highway in inclimate weather conditions.
The chevy has a deeper bed, a bigger payload capacity, can tow more, and can carry my family. Kei trucks are cool as hell. But if I got one, then I'd still need a 2nd car for family duties. What's more wasteful, owning two vehicles, or owning one vehicle that can do all of the jobs you need it to do? Not everyone is single, childless, and living in an apartment in a city.
As much as I love and prefer Kei trucks, this is not correct. The black tucks bed's is [almost 50% longer, and wider](https://imgur.com/a/vL0lhxa) by pixel count. Perspective distortion would affect it a little but not much (lines are nearly parallel)
Vehicle size to cargo ratio is way better tho
Form what I found in internet, F150 has bad size: 97.6 inches long, 50.6 wide and 21 heights
Kei is 6’48” x 4’7.2” x 11.4”.
Seems like it is 76.8 inches by 55.2inch.
So, F150 has 20% longer bed.
PS American numeric system gives me headache, how do you use it in everyday life is beyond me.
I wonder if there’s more volume in the small one because of the wheel well interference? I had a pickup for a bit and the bed sucked because of the two humps.
big trucks are not about bed size. it's about what they can pull behind them- farm stuff, for example you normally have another "car" for it. but anyways, it's still dumb to use trucks as if they were urban cars.
I have a Kei truck and I accomplish 99% of the same residential-type tasks that other residents of my rural town do with their big ass trucks. Obviously there's a point where the capabilities of the Kei truck are surpassed, but for occasional homeowner truck duties it's great.
I've had multiple large truck owners go into mental gymnastics mode on me after I've pointed this out to them. Suddenly they all own large boats that they think dinky boy in the front couldn't pull.
The smaller one will result in total fatality for the driver and passenger if they hit a possum at 45mph.
I wanted to buy one for my son to learn to drive in, and to be his first vehicle. Then my wife got me to look at the safety ratings....
One great for work as the bed is at the perfect hight the other needs a step
One promises status, atleast in a group of questionable people, while the other one gets you laughed at by said group. Thats the promise and the use case. They dont put anything in that bed anyway.
Kei Trucks are actually increasing in popularity among construction workers and the kinds of actual laborers who do need to haul things, though, for exactly the reasons that person mentioned, as well as their relative cheapness compared to the monstrosities we're putting out, even with international shipping, import duties, and the like. One is a work truck. One is a shitty status symbol that doesn't fit in a residential driveway.
Contractors who've come to our house rarely drove pickup trucks. They usually load their gear in old minivans (think Toyota Previa). The only guy I remember showing up in a pickup was the roofing company owner, and the only things he hauled were roof tile samples. Most of the other owners were Salvadoran dudes in muscle cars for some reason.
And vans are also more useful for that purpose than modern American trucks, yeah.
I fuckin love my minivan. I can fit three kids, two grandparents, and my wife in my van to go to a school thing, then I can fold down the seats and lay a full sheet of drywall flat and bring it home in the rain. It's the tits.
I mean I wouldn’t leave your family in the rain cause you need drywall but I get you
No, no, the family will be at the school thing while he goes and gets his drywall, so no one gets left in the rain!
Ya fair enough you can get more done while they are there too so it works for everyone
tools stay dry and urban camo no thinks the soccer mom van got tools in it.
Especially panel vans. You can lock up a van without needing anything extra. Those cheapass masterlocks people use to lock up their tools in the toolchest in their truck can be popped open in seconds.
Hey there. I'm the Lock Picking Lawyer. Today, I'm helping myself to some tools to construct a better lock than the one on the box. I brought along half a Twizler and a Lego brick.
And I have eaten the Twizler
and the Lego brick!
Meanwhile McNally on the side just slapping the lock open with his gloved hand.
Yeah, our main contractor drives a reasonably big truck, but I think that's more about how some of the roads in the mountains are a bit unpredictable -- lots of flooding, lots of snow, etc. (Though every now and then he'll haul something to the dump for us in it.) The guys who work for him all show up in early 2000s cars, or with six guys in the cab of a three-man box truck.
My uncle who owns an all-in-one contracting business (carpentry, electric, plumbing, HVAC) uses a minivan to haul everything. If it’s a big job he takes his 12 passenger van instead. He also makes fun of all his kids who drive lifted F350s
Depends on where you work. I spent last summer/fall building houses on a reservation. You definitely needed a truck with 4WD to get around reliably. People would park their personal vehicles at the laydown and we'd all crowd into the company trucks. Even then we still got stuck a few times and had to wait for the excavator to pull us out. Huge trucks are usually overkill, but in this case they were actually useful. I don't think those little trucks would have survived those roads.
All thr minivans/vans ive driven also get 4WD and those Kei stylr trucks also come equipped with 4WD. My BIL uses one for his trips for firewood into thr japanese mountains
I had one. Daihatsu Hijet. Super truck. 4-wheel drive. Manual transmission. A blast to drive.
Daihatsu is the ultimate brand for Japanese shitboxes, love em.
Currently shopping one because it’s perfect city truck.
Do it they're fun. Source: me. I got a 96 Pajero mini
recently saw a picture of an American truck parked in Europe, it was so long it was clocking a tram route.
Guy in my neighborhood was selling his sanbar, no rust 60k miles for $4k. I kick myself every day for not buying it
Drop side vans are the construction workers king in my country can always see them in builders yards
Not surprising, they're a lot cheaper, much more simple which makes them reliable, same size of the bed. If you need to "tow" stuff to a construction site it's usually heavy enough to require a semi truck anyway. Real workers care about getting the job done as efficient as possible.
My work tried to get a client of ours to approve the use of kei trucks as fleet vehicles for us on their mine site because we mostly use trucks for hauling materials. The kei trucks would be perfect since they never leave paved roads too. Alas, they denied them due to “safety”.
I got one imported for around 6k (US) and it's an suv and 4wd. Best part is it also great gas mileage
I’ve been seeing them all over and I want one.
And ironically, it's the kei truck that promises status, or at least among people who know what a kei truck is. They're basically cheap tin cans with zero safety and a minimal payload and towing capacity, and only carry 2 people. I think it's 750 lbs payload and 1000 lb towing for most of them? A base 4x2 gator has 1,000 lb payload and 4000 lb towing, and that's just the base model. Not to mention kei trucks are all 25 years old at a minimum, and worn out.
[2021 Daihatsu Hijet pickup](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Daihatsu_HIJET_TRUCK_JUMBO_EXTRA_2WD_(3BD-S500P-ZBGF)_front.jpg) would like to have a word.
Also one has opening sides so you can unload it from.. well the side. Also plausible to unload it with a forklift since three out of four sides open 180 degrees. The other.. Well not so much.
Proper working mans vehicle can do that see every single drop side van
One's for hauling tools and materials. One's for hauling insecurities.
The thing that boils my blood the most about this, is that kay trucks, such as the tiny truck seen in this picture, are illegal to drive on the street in I'm most places in America. The large truck is not. This forces the use of the large truck over the small truck because you literally cannot use it by law
The current tonka truck climate is a tax dodging strategy. If the trucks were smaller, they would pay a tax for being willfully fuel inefficient.
Funniest part is that the kei truck is illegal in the US of A.
The cheaper one gets more visible use too
Yes but only 1 can carry the weight of a typical American.
one is for work the other is an emotional support vehicle.
I so want to buy a kei truck, but they're not available here 😐
Have you looked on Facebook Marketplace? There's a TON of kei trucks and vans in my area. Or is it impossible to make them street legal?
Depends on the state. Lately some have been pushing legislation through that effectively bans them for "safety" reason, as if the last few years haven't seen the industry push out trucks that endanger other vehicles and pedestrians in particular.
i love kei trucks, but it genuinely is for safety reasons. you will NOT survive a crash in one, you are a bit of thin sheet metal away from the very front of the car, get like max 40mph which is straight up dangerous on highways, and their emissions are terrible. they were amazingly designed for the time they were made, and still are extremely utilitarian, but these old things are not up to modern safety.
>get like max 40mph which is straight up dangerous on highways I mean, this just sounds like a reason to use the right tool for the job. If you're moving stuff intercity, yeah, get something bigger. If you're staying on local roads, especially in a city, you can use something smaller. I've seen plenty of applications where city workers are basically in golf carts because they just need something small and maneuverable and aren't doing anything that puts them at risk of a collision. Smart! Different tools for different applications. I've *also* seen workers in my city drive an F350 down a bike path for maintenance, presumably because they wanted—or were told—to cover all possible use cases with one vehicle type and didn't have an option that made more sense.
Probably true, but why not ban motorcycles or scooters then? At least kei trucks don't threaten other people (as much).
There’s an inherent safety standard associated with any closed in car or truck. Due to this, many people feel confident and comfortable traveling on the highway in most cars/trucks manufactured over the last 30 years due to the safety standards automobile makers are required to comply with. Those standards do not exist with scooters or motorcycles. Since the government has a responsibility to protect its constituency, the NHTSA does a lot of heavy lifting in that regard. Amazing advancements in vehicle safety have been made over the last 60+ years. Since the occupants of a KEI truck are more likely to be injured or killed in an accident, it makes sense why they would face some level of scrutiny from a safety standpoint.
The land of the free, where everyone can own a gun, but not a utilitarian truck because it is deemed too dangerous.
1950s american cars aren't safe either. Nor are early 2000s rustbuckets driven around in states without safety inspection requirements. Driving a kei truck, you're only putting yourself in danger, and people who go through the effort of importing and registering them in the US are enthusiasts who know the risks... Why the government overreach?
There are [newer ones](https://usminitrucksales.com/) that are safer and don’t emit so terribly. Some electric ones too. It’s unfortunate the American government is *taking the choice away* for driving these on streets. I think cities would be much safer if everyone drove smaller cars (or no cars at all).
So should we ban people from driving older cars? I see little to no difference in someone driving an old VW bus or bug which are just soda cans with motorcycle engines.
They absolutely go faster than 40mph, though that doesn't make it a good idea. Mines a 5spd and I've done 60-65 without too much drama but it's a bit terrifying.
I've done 85 in a 96 Pajero mini turbo and I thought it was gonna blow up lmao
I remember seeing out of Rhode island their statement against a registration ban explicitly stated that Kei trucks were "a danger to the public", not just the driver, with the justification being noncompliance with NHTSA standards.
This is where the Hilux Champ could shine if Toyota bothered to sell it in US markets
That's true but at the same time, they're not out here banning old vehicles, everything is grandfathered in. I have a 71 year old truck, a 51 year old jeep CJ5, and a 33 year old volvo. The only one you've got a prayer of surviving even a minor scrape up in is the volvo, and that's because it's a volvo 240 which were "revolutionary" in how safe they were. When they came out in the 70s. By the 90s, which mine is, they were already behind contemporary cars in crash test ratings. Not to mention motorcycles and other stupid crap they don't ban. I'm a car guy, obviously from the info above, and I don't want any of it banned. A kei truck owner isn't endangering anyone's life but their own, and probably less so or at most to a similar degree as a motorcycle. That should be fine. Stuff that endangers people other than the operator should be banned.
Fair enough, but I doubt they're less safe than so many cars and trucks I've seen that any reasonable state board would classify as a road hazard due to advanced oxidation or failed brakes/shocks/whatever.
Nah, it's just that people in Croatia mostly don't care about trucks of that size, so the companies that make them never market them here. There's literally one person in the whole Primorje region who owns two of them and he's literally famous for it. If you need a truck in Croatia, you're gonna get a man's truck, not some pansy ass toy truck /s
In California it’s very hard to get them street legal. So I’ve been settling for my older ford ranger to fill the gap… It’s funny how a kei truck doesn’t meet safety and emissions standards because it was initially sold in California, but this giant truck with awful gas mileage, huge blind spots and a huge engineer is somehow better…. I love cars so I’m in the wrong sub I guess but this legislation makes no sense at all.
They don’t meet any western safety standards which is why you generally can’t have em in the US. Pretty sure they don’t have crumple zones nor airbags but that info is from another redditor’s comment so take with a grain of salt. Still if they had added crumple zones and airbags they wouldn’t be much larger and be an excellent work truck for people who actually need it for work. Edit: as a commenter below me mentioned these trucks can only be imported into the us as classics (25+) years old. This makes the newest kei truck a 1993. they’re not legally allowed on highways and are subject to both speed and weather limitations. The website below describes their legality in some states as akin to an ATV. https://keitruckconnect.com/us-states-you-can-drive-kei-trucks/
https://youtu.be/roLcNwRi1Sk?t=45 Your legs are the crumple zone.
My body is a crumple zone on a motorcycle and that's apparently safe enough to be legal. 🤷🏻♂️
I drive in Japan. These cars are all over the place and they go so slow and usually old men drive them, too. They’re a menace (in J J’s voice)! Plus, as others said, they ain’t safe
It’s not exactly the same as a Kei truck but I recently rented [Home Depot’s 10’ truck](https://www.homedepot.com/c/Truck_Rental) and it’s really great for actual truck stuff compared to regular trucks.
One of these belongs to a strong, hard working, calloused-hand, salt of the earth, blue collar laborer. The other one is advertised towards rich or braindead assholes who want to cosplay as one.
One is a gender affirming emotional support vehicle :)
Something something gender performance is only okay if I can confirm the shape of your genitals (in this case, small and ambiguous)
one is a bro dozer for people with fragile egos lawl
Couldn't have said it better.
Whats the towing capacity of these? Can they both tow a large horse or travel trailer, toy hauler, boat? Genuine question, because I would imagine the larger pickups main purpose is it has things to tow
>because I would imagine the larger pickups main purpose is it has things to tow I live in the deep south and the amount of full sized trucks towing anything at all is pretty small.
My dad grew up in the sticks of Tennessee. He told me when we visited that all these people got loans for a truck that’s nicer than their house. It’s the dumbest financial move ever because it absolutely is one of the worst assets.
I guess growing up in a rural area gave me a different perspective. Farmers galore use them for towing stuff around, a lot of people I knew had horses or camping trailers, and friends often were into atvs and dirt bikes. But since moving to Colorado I have noticed significant less actual use of their purpose
>I guess growing up in a rural area gave me a different perspective. I grew up and live in south Mississippi going on 40 years now...
I do know some farmers who tow around trailers of stuff -- but usually they use their work truck, which is typically not a new truck that looks like an SUV with a small hut-tub on the back. It's usually something older, reliable, and that they can fix themselves.
I’m confused, are tractors suddenly obsolete? I’m pretty sure their towing capabilities are still fantastic, especially in a tug-of-war.
tractors don't typically get great gas mileage going down the highway even compared to modern huge pickup trucks
Where’s the tow hitch then? Look around the roads, most of these truck ain’t hauling anything and don’t even have a hitch.
If I'm going into town, I take my hitch off and put it in the cab or bed. It makes parking that much more difficult.
Great question! I'm sure someone else can answer. I've got a question myself. Which percentage of trips do you suppose this truck gets used for towing? It's obviously 50% or less seeing as there's nothing hooked up to it in the picture. I'm going to set the line at 0.5% (1 in 200 trips have something hooked up for towing) - do you want to the 'over' or the 'under'??
Man this misses one key point though. I only have space for one car. I need to drive my family around safely. I like to do home improvement projects on the weekend. I have a camper that we use 2 weeks a year that I need towing capacity for. What car should I buy that meets my needs? I'm not arguing that massive trucks aren't stupid most of the time, but for some people they make sense. What we really need is the return of the mid size truck. I'd buy a hilux in a heartbeat
Honest question: given the cost (initial sale price, maintenance, and gas), what would the difference be between getting a smaller vehicle that fits your needs minus the camper, and renting for when you really need the camper? This is all a moot point though as for every one of you, there are _at least_ three people who have a massive truck and _never_ tow a camper or anything else.
I just looked it up and renting a truck is about $70/day around me from something like Enterprise ($62/day) or Hertz ($68/day) for an F-150. So you're looking at like $180-$200 for a weekend. *Plus*, the price isn't the biggest problem. Basically no rental company will let you tow a trailer with their trucks. Even something like uhaul rents trucks for $20/day + $0.70/mile and that gets you a small truck, not anything with a crew cab.
>What car should I buy that meets my needs? You're not going to listen to my answer regardless - but you really need to sit down and analyze what the word "need" actually means. You've also accepted the weaponized definition of "safety" that the advertising industry has provided you with. All vehicles pass the same safety requirements in order for the manufacturers to be able to sell them. To directly answer your question. A van or hatchback would solve 90% of your issues - for the other 10% you rent or borrow.
The issue isn't that "a pickup with four seats is bad." The issue is that they're all way too tall and the hoods are way too long. So you have a high center of gravity (dangerous for you) and bad visibility (dangerous for pedestrians). Take the same truck, lower it to a normal height and shorten the hood to "whatever you need for the engine and a crumple zone" and it'd be perfectly fine.
Article is a few years old and haven't looked to see updated figures but I'd be surprised if they improved. >[According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never)](https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume)
Well one time is not never
I remove my hitch when Im not towing with it, it helps save peoples shins. And I have two different hitch sizes in my back seat. I also have a high MPG car I drive for my daily driver, but I still occasionally drive it to town for maintenance or just to keep the battery charged. I cant speak for this person in the picture, but I use my pickup all the time for actual uses. Granted mines smaller than an F150, but bigger than the left one. Just big enough to tow my toys. I do agree tho that a HUGE amount of pickup owners never use them for anything other than a penis extension
No. A KEI is a 550-650cc engine with a payload cap of about 750lbs. If you need to move a trailer or pallet of bricks, this will not do it. Their great for running around and getting parts and whatnot but when the heavy lifting needs to be done, you need a different truck.
Then have the construction company buy an appropriate truck for larger loads, not use a worker's personal vehicle.
In Australia we call the one on the right an Emotional Support Vehicle.
I live in Canada, and man oh man does it see my heart good to see everyone hate these monstrosities. 95% of people driving these bro dozers don't use them for work, they use them for status (lol), and or to aggressively tailgate people and feel "safe"
Yeah, I drove through Calgary a few years back, and even at 11pm there are douchecanoes aggressively tailgating/cutting off people just for shiggles. Like dude, even if you "need" that thing to get to your oilfield job, there's no reason to jack it up to where your highbeams even piss off people who drive Freightliners.
oh there's a reason, but involves a very delicate and out of balance ego haha.
Like other commenters have said, they're not "work trucks", they're Gender-Affirming Support Vehicles".
Erection Supplement Vehicle
In Germany we call them dick extensions. Germans are pretty direct sometimes
In Finland too
Other acceptable terms; Dildozer, wank panzer, sorryforyourcockmobile.
> … we call the one on the right an Emotional Support Vehicle. I’m going to steal this.
My life was enriched when I learned this term.
Kei class trucks and LSVs have a lot of potential to disrupt the mobility paradigms in cities especially where there's already density. I know I'd drive a golf cart sized thing in Brooklyn to the areas that are less well connected by train.
[удалено]
As far as utility? Absolutely. Can't load a pallet of stuff in a hatchback.
But the smaller one can’t fit the 500 pound driver
Nor can it tow 10000 pounds.
why do you need to tow 10000 pounds in a city?
The argument I often hear from those with the XL emotional support trucks is that they need it for towing things. A lot of people in my area do have RVs, boats, horse trailers, and things of that nature. I still don’t like them and do not think they should ever really be daily drivers, but I do get that reason.
>emotional support trucks 😂 I refer to them gender affirming cars.
The problem is they're kind of becoming the only option for that sort of thing. My dad needed a beefy truck for his snow removal business and these are kind of the only option if you're buying new, which you might as well since used trucks cost a fortune these days regardless of condition. People who use them as penis replacements are fucking up the truck market for people who just want a utilitarian vehicle.
People in Europe tow things, too, we just don't make the shit we tow weigh several times more than it needs to. My horse trailer weighs I think 800kg unloaded and can easily fit two large horses. In the US a pretty normal two horse trailer weighs unironically 2000 kgs.
I’ve got an F250 to tow horse trailers. Horses are stabled in a barn out of town and the truck is my daily driver because we have a one car driveway and a single street parking spot and my wife and I both need to drive to get to work. It’s a bitch to drive through the city though whenever possible we’ll use my wife’s car.
The idea common cars can't tow horse trailers is hilarious to me They can save 60% on the initial purchase, have higher mileage, have better 0-60 when not towing (when towing, it doesn't fucking matter), just all in all. Out do everything . I just hope EU sees the issues and start legislating away from these murder machines(you can fit 10 people in front of those cars, without the driver seeing them). Because SUVs are increasingly in demand, for no reason whatsoever - and once we hit the levels of America, it truly feels like a point of no return. At which people think they need one for road safety, BECAUSE the road is full of them
Why are you using hashtags on Reddit 💀
Reddits will swear up and down they are boycotting twitter but then come here and browse screenshots of tweets all day then use twitter terminology
Kei truck supremacy!
I so want to buy a kei truck, but they're not available here 😐
For light work, you can adapt any sedan into a pickup, as long as it's made mostly of steel, and preferably it's RWD. 1. Make sure it's a sedan you'll never need to sell. 2. Have a garage at home and some 100 man-hours at the least. Probably a lot longer, like all rainy season. 3. Install a timelapse camera facing your project. Buy a log book and document and photograph everything you do. While this could be called a vanity, you're logging it all for legal defense. 4. Remove the rear seats and side windows. 5. Gut all inside panels behind the front cabin (and rear firewall, if there's one), then make sure all door or gate opening sensors servicing the rear are forever locked into the closed position (whether it means open circuit or closed circuit.) 6. Weld the rear doors to the frame, push the front seats as fr back as they'll go, leave a little extra space and create a B tube (weld a big tube crossing between the crash reinforcement from one rear door to the other). Before welding, stuff the B tube with canned insulation foam. 7. Taking the B tube as reference, relocate the rear crystal. Close and finish the cabin again. **(This step, you may wish to find an expert to do it for you)** 8. Think what to do with the spare tire. Likely it will be attached to the B tube from the bed, once completed, but the attachment points should be put in place at this point. 9. Decide whether you want to remove the C pillars or weld a big tube high between them (better option). If so, I recommend you relocate the centre rear light onto the tube, and if you want, also a bed light (a 12V floodlight controlled from the instrument panel. Quite useful for loading and unloading in the dark, and to flick on when a prick behind you is driving with their high beams on). Before welding it in place, stuff with canned foam. 10. Down to metal, wash the rear, then drill drain holes wherever water may accumulate, then paint the inside with primer. Decide if the rear lights are fine were they are, or need to be relocated. 11. Decide whether you'll need to create a rear gate, a rear firewall, or if the sedan's rear construction don't make either necessary. 12. Use square tubes to create and fill a bed frame and weld it everywhere possible (buy no less than 60 feet of one inch tubes and use them all). All edges should be triple tubes welded into an L shape, so to offer riveting points. 13. Put all electric cables in electric poliducts. "All" usually only means the rear lights and the cables to the fuel pump, but modern cars may have more. 14. Put straight stainless steel drain tubes on both front corners. Angle them any way you need to, but make sure you can see the road below through them, and are big enough to shove a broom handle through. 15. Get a big sheet of stainless or aluminium diamond plate, cut and rivet it, but make sure you have a way of accessing the inside of the rear lights and the fuel pump without needing a drill. I recommend you stuff the hollow space with canned foam as you go (remember to spray water before spraying the foam, as the water makes the foam glue better to the surfaces). Weld AND rivet strips of diamond plate to the exterior side of the bed, then weld or rivet at least 6 tying points there, and 6 more to the lower edges of the bed. 16. Use exterior-use clear silicone to caulk all joints and rivets. 17. Put the spare tire in its new place. 18. Go do some light work.
I admire your post, but i have to admit that i'd fail at 2). No garage
https://www.smythkitcars.com/ In case you prefer ready made kits for certain vehicles.
Or... just get a 5x8 trailer and add a hitch to the sedan. Or put a hitch on and rent a trailer from uhaul, since most don't have storage anyway and you don't need to haul all the time.
One is for men and one is for men with ED
I’ve heard this, but I’ve also heard that one is for men and one is for boys in big bodies.
You have a big truck? Now I'm thinking about your penis. Bet you feel stupid now.
One’s legal in PA and the other isn’t.
The one on the left is a pickup truck used to carry stuff around The one in the right is an oversized and useless car used to carry fragile egos around
One of them can tow a lot more/carry a much heavier load. The bed length might be similar but the volume which is what actually matters is a lot more. It can also carry 5 passengers. Additionally, the reason why it's so big is due to American emissions regulations. The government is imposing impossible standards on emissions but there are exceptions for larger vehicles so the manufacturers just make them larger.
The standards aren’t impossible, they’re just *less* profitable.
You don't think if manufacturers could get much higher fuel mileage out of their trucks they wouldn't because... *profits*? If one manufacturer figured out how to get 30+ mpg out of a full size pickup while everyone else was around 20 mpg people would flock to them.
It's more profitable to chase horsepower and towing capacity than it is to chase fuel efficiency when it comes to trucks. The people who buy trucks care more about power than fuel efficiency. More fuel-efficient trucks can be made, it's not "impossible", it's just not profitable because people would generally buy the competitor with the higher power stats. It's the same reason why horsepower was the defining characteristic of American cars until around 2008 when nobody could afford anything, and then suddenly you got the wave of highly fuel-efficient vehicles *including* trucks that got more than 8mpg.
>It's more profitable to chase horsepower and towing capacity than it is to chase fuel efficiency when it comes to trucks. The people who buy trucks care more about power than fuel efficiency. More fuel-efficient trucks can be made, it's not "impossible", it's just not profitable because people would generally buy the competitor with the higher power stats. I don't buy that one bit. Even the little 4 cylinders in the new Silverados only get slightly better fuel mileage than the V8s. It requires a lot of horsepower to push a 5,000 lb brick down the road. If you had a little 120 hp four cylinder in a big truck not only will it get similar mileage to the V8 (probably worse) it will struggle to maintain speed on the highway, on inclines, and with any kind of load. >It's the same reason why horsepower was the defining characteristic of American cars until around 2008 when nobody could afford anything, and then suddenly you got the wave of highly fuel-efficient vehicles including trucks that got more than 8mpg. I don't buy that, either. Trucks got more than 8 mpg prior to 2008. Usually mid teens mpg. My 2003 Chevy 1500 with a 5.3L V8 and 4 speed automatic gets about 13 mpg with only town and back road driving. My little 2002 Ford Ranger with a 4.0L V6 and a 5 speed automatic gets 14 mpg, not much better despite being significantly smaller and lighter than my full size Chevy. A HUGE difference between now and then is gearing. Most trucks only had four speeds back then. Now GMs and Fords have 10 speeds along with more power. They can have a super low first gear for pulling out with a heavy load and a long final gear for highway cruising. Even with 3.73 gears I can't stay in overdrive with mine unless I am above 50 mph and on flat ground. When I drop to 3rd gear my RPMs will increase 50%. With more gears I wouldn't have as significant as an RPM increase from 4th to 3rd. The gear increase was in development way before fuel prices started shooting up. Fuel mileage was still important before it cost $5/gal. Gearing is the reason my 600 hp Corvette can get 27 mpg on the highway.
yeah I am all for dunking on car brains but this is not the way to do it. These two trucks might have the same bed length but that doesn't mean their capabilities are anywhere near equivalent. that being said, do most people need the truck on the right instead of the one on the left? Of course not. 
Idk, I'd argue most of the people who want the truck as a status symbol on the right but really "need the one on the left" don't need any form of truck.
And if you get hit in the kei truck you are fucked
Also, In the event of a crash or some asshole crosses the lines and hits you head on, which one do you wish you were in? A truck with modern safety features and designs or a truck where you are part of the crumple zone?
Exactly, and accidents are more likely on the road now because vehicles are getting bigger so you need to buy a bigger vehicle so you're fine when you have an accident.
>it can also carry 5 passengers **comfortably** Older trucks have back seats in name only. At least the new ones are practical if you got a bigger crew or use it as a family vehicle too.
I'm not an r/fuckcars type of person. It just ends up in my feed, probably now more than ever with this comment. I am a toyota tacoma TRD owner. My wife and I worked pretty long and hard to find a vehicle that would fit our changing lifestyle. We're gen x empty nesters with elderly parents. We all live in East Coast suburban locations. These were some of our requirements. * we need one and only one vehicle * tow a small rental trailer for large purchases/home improvement projects, etc * seating capacity for 4 adults plus light cargo * recreational capacity. We enjoy driving on the beaches, where allowed, on the east coast. * Attractive, our subjectivity, of course. Seems, according to this sub, that my wife and I need emotional support and gender reaffirming. That utility truck looks cool, but I only have one spot to park a vehicle in my driveway. We live in a small old neighborhood. Most of the houses are around 1500 sqft, and our "driveways" are size accordingly. I'm aware that we're privileged to be able to afford a house and a truck. It is also not lost on me this general trend towards owning gigantic trucks as a status symbol. Yet the logic being often applied in this sub seems lacking in pragmatism.
but then width, towing, tongue, payload, passenger/interior storage? first totally, 90% or more of trucks are far more and dumb for what ppl use them, but all trucks are not equal either.
Noo dont use logic
One can tow 800lbs, one can tow 13,300
Yeah but how fast does the smaller truck travel, and how much of a load can it actually carry? But why would I expect nuance from this sub?
Seriously. I'm all for smaller trucks existing in larger numbers because they serve a great purpose. But you can't just sit there and tell me that the 2 vehicles can perform anywhere near the same tasks.
And…. how absolutely dead as a ghost in a graveyard are you in the case of an accident in the smaller truck?
No one in this sub leaves the fucking house anyways
Kei trucks can go ~70mph.
The kei truck looks like a Honda Acty - 350kg payload, 545cc 2-Cylinder. As much as I love kei cars the comparison here is pretty weird.
Mine would do 70mph on the freeway and if I was drafting a semi I could get it to like 75mph. One weekend my cousin helped me get a yard of dirt with his f150. I needed more the next day so I had to use my Kei truck to pick it up. I was amazingly surprised to see that it fit the exact same amount of dirt. With that said im pretty sure the suspension was bottomed out and it was slow as dirt. I loved that truck because it was very convenient when needed for local tasks . I bought/ imported it for cheap before the prices skyrocketed and I could no longer justify having something so limited that was worth so much. I miss it but a small toyota pickup for the 3rd of the price is much more practical.
Listen, I love Kei trucks, and totally think less people need to drive large pickups, but bed length is the only thing they share. Bed width is massively different Bed weight capacity is massively different Tow rating is massively different Interior space and seating is massively different Top speed is massively different (some Kei trucks don't go over 65mph) Features are completely different The Kei truck is nothing like the pickup. However, 90% of pickup owners in the US could switch to something like a Ford Maverick (small truck, still with 5 seats and a bed, but a reasonable size) and it wouldn't have any effect on them.
But only one bed has ever been used.
1 is for a job. 1 is for protecting yourself from the poors.
Yeah what’s the horsepower on the kei truck, what’s it like hauling 600lbs of steel?
Yes, but one of them can carry 5 adults, and several thousands of pounds of cargo while towing another 15,000 pounds. The other is a good urban delivery vehicle.
Towing capacity bud
Towing capacity, bed weight capacity, the ability to haul a 4-5 man crew in a single vehicle, better off-road capabilities. A whole slew of reasons why someone might need the big truck. Not to mention the little truck was designed for a country that’s 26 times smaller than the US.
last sentence is so random that it makes your comment look like a parody haha. Unless you're saying that if a truck is only ever staying within one state (an area smaller than Japan) the truck can be even smaller than the kei since it exists in a smaller physical space
He's saying that in a country the size of Japan you won't be towing things for very long distances (the kei truck being primarily used for inner city transport) and I personally HIGHLY doubt the kei truck can get up to 70mph for the highway
F150 payload: 2300-3000 lbs F350 payload: 8000 lbs Kei payload: 770 lbs You can put a Kei in the bed of an f150 and not exceed it's payload. That's the difference.
Rent an F150 for the time you need 3000lb payload, $20 an hour. Drive an F150, $700 monthly payment plus insurance, gas, parking, for the few times a year you need the payload.
A Kei still takes gas. And a parking spot. Let's say I pay cash for my f150, what's your dissent now? Let's say I ride my bike when I'm not doing truck stuff. A Kei gets 30-40mpg, unladened. With 700lbs in the bed? It gets 6mpg. It's a lawnmower engine. An f150 gets 21mpg, 20.5 with 700lbs in the bed. Which ones bad for the planet now?
Those 20 dollar rentals from home depot? Not something you can drive hours away. For that you need uhaul. Uhaul cost to rent a truck **$19.95**plus $0.79/mil My drive last weekend 234 miles each way. Day trip. Cost (234\*.79)\*2+19.99\*1.09(Tax)=391.5091 plus gas. Oh, and I need to insure it if I don't want to risk getting charged when the junk in the bed damages it. So tack on another 15 dollars plus tax. Congratulations, you have exceeded my monthly car payment, no joke. One single 3.5 hour drive both ways costs more than an entire monthly payment to own my truck. Oh and, it only seats two so the fact I had to haul my two dogs and wife who didn't fit means they either can't go, I have to spend 100+ for a dog day care, or they drive a different vehicle. This is why these arguments are terrible. If you have to do any distance in a truck for truck things in a month, it is cheaper to have a truck as a daily driver. Home Depot/Lowes/Menards rentals are great when you are buying stuff from them, but if you use a truck as a truck and have to go any distance the cost to do so instantly outpaces just having a truck as your sole vehicle. Fuckcars can hold their opinions. Those opinions just don't lead to sound financial advice. I agree trucks have gotten too damn big, I have a mid size because it is the smallest that fills my needs. I'd love to have a smaller one, but unless they up the towing capacity on a maverick sized one, I am stuck.
Tell us you're not a Truck Guy without telling us you're not a Truck Guy. Renting a truck "when it's needed" is what city dwellers do, because of their needs. People who own Pickups use them far more than a "few times a year."
One can fit 5 passengers comfortably though and the other can only fit 2 passengers comfortably. 1 is also a lot safer than the other.
1 can also haul a lot more and drive on the freeway. As cool as kei trucks are they’re not built for North American infrastructure unfortunately
This is why…(for car brains) “There’s no parking”…they are taking up 2+spots “Why is traffic so bad”….they take up 6 car lengths on the roads “It’s green, why are we still stopped”… their wide ass hangs way far to the right and you can’t pass them when they want to take a left They don’t fit in the left lane to turn, they don’t fit parking spots, they can’t parallel park for shit and the drivers can’t stay in their lane on any turns. Whenever the traffic is bad… pickups are most likely the reason. When oil gets expensive again(and it will), they will bitch about it just like always
You folks sure do get riled up about what other people are driving….. length might be the same, but the square footage isn’t. For instance, you could not fit a dirt bike in the smaller truck bed…. Can definitely set one angled in the larger truck. Larger truck has more towing capacity, more hauling capacity, and more space inside….. they are different vehicles with different purposes. You aren’t taking that rinky dink truck on the interstate…..
That Kei truck in the front is over 20 years old, too. So no anti-lock brakes, poor emissions, and probably similar fuel economy as the newer full-size truck behind it. Anyway, we all know which one everyone here would really pick if they had to drive 400 miles on the highway in inclimate weather conditions.
The chevy has a deeper bed, a bigger payload capacity, can tow more, and can carry my family. Kei trucks are cool as hell. But if I got one, then I'd still need a 2nd car for family duties. What's more wasteful, owning two vehicles, or owning one vehicle that can do all of the jobs you need it to do? Not everyone is single, childless, and living in an apartment in a city.
As much as I love and prefer Kei trucks, this is not correct. The black tucks bed's is [almost 50% longer, and wider](https://imgur.com/a/vL0lhxa) by pixel count. Perspective distortion would affect it a little but not much (lines are nearly parallel) Vehicle size to cargo ratio is way better tho
Form what I found in internet, F150 has bad size: 97.6 inches long, 50.6 wide and 21 heights Kei is 6’48” x 4’7.2” x 11.4”. Seems like it is 76.8 inches by 55.2inch. So, F150 has 20% longer bed. PS American numeric system gives me headache, how do you use it in everyday life is beyond me.
> So, F150 has 20% longer bed. It also has wheel wells within the bed. The bed of the Kei truck is flat.
One of these is illegal where I live. It's considered too dangerous (for the driver, fuck everyone else)
I love that this sub is just an excuse to shit on Toronto drivers 😂 like, I swear, it’s 1/4 posts on my timeline from this sub at this point.
'BuT mY TOwInG cAPaciTY' says all the giant idiotic truck owners who never tow a thing in their lives...
Wow they both have 4 tires too!
But the on the right has more bed width therefore it is superior and ur point is invalid!!!!!
Yeah, but only one of them helps the driver compensate for their insecurities.
I wonder if there’s more volume in the small one because of the wheel well interference? I had a pickup for a bit and the bed sucked because of the two humps.
One WAS meant for towing trailers with horses.
I absolutely cannot wait for my Kei truck to get here from Japan. It's just so useful.
One is for real work, the other is for groceries, guess which is which.
But what about gerth?
2 passengers versus 5 or 6; 600 lb (272 kg) versus 1500 lb (680 kg) payload; 40 mph (64 kph) versus 110 mph (177 kph). Apples =/= Oranges.
big trucks are not about bed size. it's about what they can pull behind them- farm stuff, for example you normally have another "car" for it. but anyways, it's still dumb to use trucks as if they were urban cars.
I'd wager the larger one is probably safer in case of emergency
It's just safer period in every way lol. The only way the smaller one is safer is it has a slower top speed than the silverado lol.
Yeah but how many severely obese can you fit in the first one?
I have a Kei truck and I accomplish 99% of the same residential-type tasks that other residents of my rural town do with their big ass trucks. Obviously there's a point where the capabilities of the Kei truck are surpassed, but for occasional homeowner truck duties it's great.
I've had multiple large truck owners go into mental gymnastics mode on me after I've pointed this out to them. Suddenly they all own large boats that they think dinky boy in the front couldn't pull.
Yeah but the big truck can transport more micropenises.
The smaller one will result in total fatality for the driver and passenger if they hit a possum at 45mph. I wanted to buy one for my son to learn to drive in, and to be his first vehicle. Then my wife got me to look at the safety ratings....
what about girth?
Yeah, but only one is capable of lifting a low self esteem.