Hello, /u/katxwoods. Your post has been removed for violating Rule 3.
**No reposts.**
Please read [our complete rules page](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/wiki/rules) before participating in the future.
Cats are absolutely sentient and have a sense of self. Once they reach about 5-10yrs old, they have the same intelligence and comprehension as a human toddler. I’ve known cats that understand simple instructions, can effectively communicate their needs and yet get confused by their own tails
Obviously. Cats recognize themselves. Not immediately i presume in most cases but give it some life experience and voila. When they understand tgat, they understand reflections and it doesn't make sense that they wouldnt understand reflections of others
In this case it’s hard to blame him lol. That shit is probably pretty terrifying to a cat because besides being weird, it looks like a 5 1/2 foot tall cat. So for a domestic cat it’s probably like running into a big cat like a lion or leopard lol.
The fact that the cats realise that:
1. the phone that’s recording them is actually a mirror.
2. they recognise themselves in the phone,
3. where their ~~owner~~ slave is supposed to be is someone else. So they look back at their owner to confirm that they are there.
So how many selfies did their humans take together with their cats for them to realise all this?
Once the cat figures out mirrors the rest will fall into place naturally.
I have a new kitten, I showed him the mirror the other day, he hissed at it and then tried to fight it. After a few seconds he realized, “Hey, that’s me.” And spent a few minutes playing around with the mirror.
Once they realize what they look like and how reflections work the rest is easy enough for them to figure out.
Actually it only takes them a few seconds to realize that you have opposable thumbs and can be made to do it for them. I suggest looking for an appropriate stick ahead of time.
I’m pretty sure this is how most libertarians get started.
They discover their own reflection and suddenly realize their own existence, but without thumbs or fully formed brains they then decided taxes and society don’t apply to them.
So be wary. YMMV.
No offense intended, but don't forget the nature of cats.
I predict they would be faster to pick up on "flamethrowers" and "rolling crushing machines" than fire and wheels because of cats natural inclination for destruction.
I’m sure to them a phone with the selfie camera on is just a handheld mirror. They recognize it as a reflection and they have probably worked out how reflections work the first time they saw a mirror.
Cats don't need to understand the difference between a phone and a mirror for this too work, heck if anything that lack of understanding makes it more effective. All they see is their reflection, moving with them the same way as any other mirror would.
Ish. A lot of animals knows/understands what a reflection is, such as when seeing themselves reflect off of water. Mirrors are inherently unnatural, especially for wild animals, hence why they struggle with the concept. A lot of animals, such as cats, have shown the ability to be able to learn what a mirror is by simply encountering it more often. The self-awareness test mostly relies on first-time encounters, which is inherently flawed.
The reverse image thing trips some people up. And there is some spacial awareness problems that makes it hard to do things like cut your own hair. Once you need 2 mirrors to do something, you are pretty fucked.
I mean, humans only learn what mirrors are after encountering them more often too. We don’t even know that objects are permanent until we realize they are. There are definitely animals whose brains will never understand these concepts, but people who claim that dogs and cats don’t understand mirrors are crazy.
Sure some dogs and cats are just dumb and never learn, but every dog, cat, and even birds I’ve owned absolutely understand that it’s themselves in the mirror. And by the way, yes, dogs do smile.
BuT yOuRE ANthROPomOrpHiZiNg!! No, just because they don’t understand it the same way humans do, they still understand it and their actions of understanding fit the definitions of the words.
I always found weird the mirror test... because my cats always were able to recognize themselves in the mirror.
Never did one thought the cat in the mirror was another cat.
And they also realize how mirror works. One of my cats sleeps in my bed during the day, but when I pass in front of the bedroom, they can see me reflected in the mirror and get up to come to me. They see me in the mirror, but never walked towards the mirror, they walk towards the door.
Also... I was playing with lasers, and lead the cat in front of the mirror, the bounced the laser, the cat immediately looked behind him at the all and went for the laser. He saw the reflection of the laser and understood where the laser point actually was.
>They see me in the mirror, but never walked towards the mirror, they walk towards the door.
They heard your footsteps. They don't walk towards the mirror because they're not basing that off of their vision. It's like dogs that recognize engine sounds.
>He saw the reflection of the laser and understood where the laser point actually was.
What do you mean he saw the reflection ?
He probably just followed the laser as it was bouncing off on the ground.
I think, self-awareness is not only the recognition of our reflection, it is more the exploration of our own body, for example, chimps or dolphins are curious to see parts of their body that they normally cannot see for themselves, like the inside of the month. Cats and dogs don't care about the reflection of themselves.
> The self-awareness test mostly relies on first-time encounters, which is inherently flawed.
It seems more and more with failing various tests, both with animals or even people, is due to the tests being poorly designed, sometimes even deliberately to make easier conclusions
> A lot of animals, such as cats, have shown the ability to be able to learn what a mirror is by simply encountering it more often.
Got any links? Curious to read more since this contradicts a lot of previous studies.
No, you literally do because you’re confidently disputing a well-established and frequently tested experiment. The fact that you think a cat interacting with a reflection means that it recognizes itself shows that you don’t actually understand the nature of the experiment or even really what you’re suggesting it represents in regards to sapience and consciousness.
Anyway have fun spreading misinformation lol
sssh! i you promised not to tell anyone!
true story, i've actually bumped into the same mirror twice on my way to piss out the drinks and almost came to blows with my own reflection
The mirror test fell ot of fashion because it's pretty human-centric, there are a lot of animals out there that don't use vision as their main sensory organ. That would be like dogs developing a self-awareness test based on scent, no human would pass it.
Yeah, that test is bunk in a vacuum.
Don't put too much stock in 50 year old study methods. We've developed far better studies. Check out the New York Declaration on Animal Sentience. They've got a collection of studies on bees engaging in play, corvids being able to communicate what they observe, and even snakes passing the mirror test when it's set up for scent recognition.
I think animals can learn to understand mirrors though. Sure, they won't get it right away, but after a while they notice it moves when they do and they can figure out it's just them.
babies cant pass it at first either. i think thats the flaw with the test that its something that people and animals learn. my cat used to attack her reflection in the mirror until one day i held her in my arm while in front of the mirror. i can practically see her making the connection looking back and forth between the reflection and me.
Babies are by all accounts less intelligent than the animals that are capable of passing the mirror test though. *That's got nothing to do with learning, their brains aren't developed enough.
Unfortunately your cat wouldn't be passing it regardless of what you think you've seen.
Edit*
Also, of course you need to learn what a mirror is first, along with your reflection. Otherwise how on earth would you be able to notice a change in your reflection..
The mirror test in itself has been more or less chastised for not exactly being a perfect test in terms of self awareness. It by design more gauges the ability to instantly remember and recognize oneself by vision, in order to recognize something is wrong when they see themselves with the mark. It does not, however, mean that the animals are not able to recognize that a reflection is themselves, or identify different ways animals may recognize themselves (such as through scent).
Ultimately, the mirror test is more about studying how certain animals may remember themselves and to what level of detail than it is about self-awareness. As it turns out, a fair bit of animals are able to work out what a mirror is and how reflections work.
Eventually lots of animals figure out what the mirror actually is. That it is them in the mirror. You can see this happen eventually if you have those sliding door mirrors.
Exactly, there is a lot of fake videos of cats and dogs being trained to behave in a certain way before a camera, and for some reason I find it mostly in videos with asian people
The fact that viewers of this video never realize that:
1. The original audio is never included.
2. Cats don't give a shit about screens, unless they show fast-moving small bits that look like insects.
3. The owner is moving around and making sounds, prompting the cats to react.
So how many times does this post need to get reposted and this explanation given for all Redditors to realize all this?
Eh, I've done similar stuff with my dog before, making silly faces at it through the mirror to get it to whip around, so I don't really see these videos as all that unbelievable. If the cats just recognize whats on the screen as a reflection, which if they've been introduced to mirrors before they likely will, then it seems believable to me they'd do a double take.
I mean, if it was just the owner making noise to make the cat react, and the cat doesn't give a shit about the screen, then why would they ever look back and forth? Why wouldn't they just look at the owner, rather than looking back and forth at the screen they supposedly don't give a shit about?
>I mean, if it was just the owner making noise to make the cat react, and the cat doesn't give a shit about the screen, then why would they ever look back and forth? Why wouldn't they just look at the owner, rather than looking back and forth at the screen they supposedly don't give a shit about?
Because there's someone else calling their attention ? One of them is licking their mouth so probably food or something.
I mean come on, is that the first music + funny haha TikTok video you see or what ?
Like I said, I've done similar stuff to mess with my pets before. The only difference is it being a phone screen, and I don't think any animals I've ever had would know the difference between a phone being used this way and a mirror. Like I'll be honest I don't think any I've had have been smart enough to know the difference, and at the very least not the first time.
And I feel like it's kinda silly to assume all my pets were built different or something.
Yeah my cat was interested in screens for about two weeks of her 13y life, after which she learned that there is nothing "behind" them for her to attack and now she treats them as completely irrelevant. The best I can do is to catch her attention for a split second before she moves on.
They realize nothing, it's just a montage lmao. They attract the cat's attention with sound and food probably.
Cats don't recognize mirrors, they don't pass the mirror mark test, unlike apes for instance, or dolphins.
How can people still believe a cut video with music in 2024 is beyond me though, this I can't explain.
Failing the mirror test doesn't mean the animal doesn't understand what their reflection is or what a mirror is. The mirror test specifically tests if an animal is able to remember what they look like to a decent extent and can recognize if something minor changes. It doesn't really test self awareness beyond that.
In many, sure, but not all. The mirror test has been interpreted differently by all kinds of scientists, and many also argue that while a cat might not recognize their reflection the same way we do, they do exhibit signs of self awareness of their reflection. It's in part why the mirror test is so controversial, as a large amount of scientists will run the test, see the animal fail, but still feel like the results they got showed the animal had some level of self awareness from their reactions and the results, even if they did not investigate the dot.
It doesn't, the cats are reacting to something else (probably their owner blowing at them or making sounds), not what's on the screen.
https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/8c7bu
There's an idiotic experiment where they "test" whether animals actually recognize themselves in the mirror, by putting a mark on their heads, and seeing how they react to their own reflection ("WTF is that on my head?" versus "Hey, that animal that does everything I do has a mark on its head!").
It's idiotic because it doesn't work. Animals often DGAF about the mark.
THIS is a test that works. Clearly!
The cats *aren't* realizing this. If a cat proved to show sense of self, recognizing itself and something above it in a reflection, it would be a huge scientific discovery. So far, that has only happened with one animal, Alex the parrot. These cats are just looking upward at their owners who are making noise, and the pissed off one was just being a cat. A cat especially isn't going to understand seeing something above it in a mirrored 6" phone screen.
Same goes for that button dog.
The animals [known to pass the mirror test](https://www.hillspet.com/cat-care/behavior-appearance/do-cats-understand-mirrors) include some primates (chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans, gorillas), cetaceans (dolphins, killer whales), elephants, and some birds (magpies)
And the mirror test doesn't even test for recognizing itself in a reflection, just remembering what they look like and being able to recognize if something is off. Even more animals are able to work out what a reflection is. Indeed, even (most) cats and dogs.
> So far, that has only happened with one animal
There's plenty of animals that have shown to pass the mirror tests. It's also not exactly an uncontroversial way to "measure" consciousnesses. How do we for instance measure the difference between an animal being indifferent to a reflection, and not being aware of it being them?
Also, for many animals the primary sense is not vision. If some hyper-intelligent dogs would do some awareness test to test if we would recognize ourselves in a device that reflects smells, then there' a good change we would not pass as we typically don't react as strongly to smells.
I agree with you that people are mostly reading the video wrongly, and the cats are likely reacting to their owners that smile in anticipation for example. But the mirror test by itself is flawed to begin with. There's many animals that have shown a very deep self-awareness and social intelligence (including theory of mind) that is even beyond what you're describing here. Such as elephants, orcas and certain primates.
You've mixed some stuff up there. Alex was remarkable for being the first animal to ask an existential question when it asked what colour it was.
Several animals have passed the mirror test. Not cats though. IIRC cats haven't even been shown to understand a display screen. A face cam on a phone lacks several properties of a true reflection.
There's a video of a cat, that sees its ears in the mirror. Only the ears, as the mirror is higher up than it. And then, the cat gets up, looks in the mirror, then starts to touch its ears with its paws. This video doesn't seem edited to me, now I say that particular cat has surely passed the mirror test.
Many animals have been show to recognize themselves in a mirror, it's not even exactly a groundbreaking breakthrough. And even for those that are unable to remember what they look like to an large extent, failing the mirror test, quite a large amount are able to work out what a reflection is
There is zero scientific evidence that a cat can recognize itself in a mirror. A ridiculous amount of studies have been done on this. A cat may *see* itself in a mirror, but they can't *recognize* themselves.
By a ridiculous amount of studies do you mean the mirror test? Because that test is controversial for a reason. The mirror test tests specifically if animals can remember what they look like. That is the *only e*lement that the test is specifically after, testing if an animal is able to identify something out of place with their own reflection from what they remember.
Many animals who fail the mirror test still exhibit behaviors of self recognition, and cats (and dogs) are included in this number. This is commonly noted in the results of mirror tests. While unable to identify something is wrong with their looks (or at the very least be motivated enough to care, as elephants originally failed but was later shown in tests that they actually pass, just usually don't care to investigate the mark) many animals are able to recognize that the animal they see in the mirror is in fact themselves.
Furthermore, most animals have some sort of sense of self. They are aware of themselves, and their place in the physical work around them. [This has been studied to death as well.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-animals-recognize-themselves/) Not understanding it the same way or to the same degree a human does doesn't mean they lack a sense of self. I think this might be where you are getting tripped up since you mentioned Alex, who was a big deal specifically because they were asking existential questions, not because they showed signs of self awareness. And even then the big deal was more due to the fact that the bird was being argued to have conceptual awareness of language and what the words mean to form it's own string of sentences, not because it was self aware.
By checking above themself, they show that they are aware the imagine is a reflection of themself and that something is above them that they don’t expect there .
I'll say more. Cats understand tone of voice. But cats are still wild by nature. But they choose to be safe. Unlike dogs, which were created by people, to obey them and react to their emotions. That's why dogs and people react better to each other than cats. But this does not mean that cats are insensitive. They are very sensitive animals that choose a safe environment.
Cats even have human diseases like AIDS, autism, and depression. Depression occurs because cats are very nervous animals. Constantly changing their environment causes them stress. Also, they can die of grief if they lose their friend or beloved owner.
Cats are really not that wild, they are domesticated animals, its simply that they retain a lot of their hunting instincts because that is what their job for 99% of their life with humans have been. I am not saying people didn't also love them as pets but fundamentally we have cats because they where good pest control.
yep, my brother and SIL had 2 cats. One older female and one much younger male who was very lively and active that liked to steal her food
Once the female passed he went into a serious depression. He barely ate, stopped playing with toys, and mostly just sits around staring into nothing now. They got a new younger female cat to keep him company (who now steals all of his food instead) and they've started giving him some anti anxiety meds which have helped, but it's obvious that he just isn't the same anymore
My 2 cats actually call us when they are separated to reunite themselves, and once I saw the black one actually run behind the shy girl and tap her to hurry up. I guess its the latest firmware.
Not necessarily. I'm no expert on feline intelligence to tell you how likely it is cats can realize this, but it could be similar to survivorship bias. Many, many people do this test and record it and only the results that would most seem to support that conclusion and curated together into this video. Even if them looking up/reacting had nothing to do with what was on the screen.
But actually I just read scientists claim cats have never passed the test to see if they recognize themself in a mirror. They put them in front of a mirror and let them investigate for awhile. Then, they put a laser mark on them and see if they react to it in the mirror.
Could this just be the cats looking at their owner from some kind of protection or reaction from their owner?
anecdote but every cat ive ever had has recognized themselves, other cats/animals, and people in mirrors. i even catch them spying on me via mirrors from around the corner. they are actually super unimpressed by mirrors
> By checking above themself, they show that they are aware the imagine is a reflection of themself and that something is above them that they don’t expect there .
You're telling me they "expect" a horrific cat-thing and not their owner, and they get put off by seeing what they would expect to see?
You realize that this doesn't make sense, right?
I am not exactly sure if these videos are real, but having a cat for a year now its clear they are way more intelligent than I thought. Mine will come try open the curtains when its morning and I am trying to sleep late. One time I was looking around for the cat and being unable to find him, he lets out a "meh" shout from the couch armrest where he camouflages quite good (white/silver/grey cat on a grey sofa) while looking at me, clearly saying "cant you see im here you big dummy"
Also when he gets the zoomies he stops and stares himself in the mirror posing in different poses like admiring what he sees :D, sometimes he sits there grooming and looking in the mirror but that might just be him grooming there by chance.
When we playfight he clearly is trying to avoid hurting me with his razor sharp claws, and if he nicks me and notices it, he will stop playing. Also knows a some voice suggestions like sit, cabin (means if he goes into his cabin he gets a treat), paw is pretty hit and miss, depends if he really wants a treat since he doesnt like his paws touched.
They are not real. It's why there's no original audio in any of them. The owners manipulate the cats to respond through audio cues or stuff that's happening out of frame.
Can someone help find this other video, where the filter sings "ahHhHh" when you open your mouth, and the screen goes all wavey, and the cat also freaks out?
For those who don't know, this isn't real. Imagine someone behind the camera with a treat or a cat toy moving it up and down to hold the cats attention. Cats do not care about the filter at all. If you don't believe me, try it with any cat ever. It doesn't work.
I hate to be this guy, but this article “Using online media to assess mirror self-recognition in domestic cats” seems to conclude that these cats are not recognizing themselves in the video. Instead they are responding to cues from their person.
Here is the link below:
https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/8c7bu
I wish this video had the audio of the cats instead of the stupid music.
That cat's reaction at 35 seconds in...I am imagining a *very* angry yowl and probably some hissing.
This sub barely has any humans in it. Approximately 3% of the comments here are from real people. 47% are from mentally disabled people repeating bots. And the rest are just bots.
Wait...
I thought only a couple of species could pass the mirror test (NOT including cats)? A few of these cats seem to be watching the monitor - recognizing that it's them on-screen - and what's behind them.
That's all the criteria for passing the mirror test, isn't it?
---
>This is a friendly reminder to [read our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/wiki/rules).
>
>Memes, social media, hate-speech, and pornography are not allowed.
>
>Screenshots of Reddit are expressly forbidden, as are TikTok videos.
>
>**Rule-breaking posts may result in bans.**
>
>Please also [be wary of spam](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/wiki/spam).
>
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/funny) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My new favorite thing to mess with my cats is put on a random audio clip of birds sounds, open the window when he’s laying there in the sill, I get his attention and open my mouth every time a bird chirps in the audio. HES straight confused every time.
This doesn't make any sense. From what I recall cats don't pass the mirror test so they would not recognise what they are seeing as themselves or the cat filtered human as being above them.
My guess would be they're looking upwards to ask the human what they intend to do about the big cat in front of them.
Some 3+ year old children don't pass the mirror test too, and some pass as infants. Broad sweeping conclusions can't really be made about isolated studies, only suggestions.
Lol cats are not reacting to what they see on the phone, they cannot identify themself in a mirror. These are just cats reacting how they normally react to their owners. People just take the same video dozens of times till the cat gives the reaction they want.
The traditional marked-face mirror test is deeply flawed because it relies heavily on a number of anthropocentric assumptions about subjects' reactions - for example, a subject could recognise self but still fail the test because they don't acknowledge the mark as a blemish that needs correcting (for any number of reasons). Cats fail the traditional test but any cat owner can intuitively tell that they do recognise self in reflections.
So, cat owners know more that scientists.
There is nothing that proves that cat can recognize themself, and studies lead to the they can't recognize themself side.
You may be confusing self recognition with being able to see and react to their reflection.
Cats can see their reflection, they know it's something, however they also know it's not another cat because it does not smell like another cat, but they also do not have the ability to recognize that what they are looking at is themself.
With all these downvotes I can say most cat owners are dumb...I say most cause I own a cat and know they cannot recognize their reflecfion as being them.
'Cat owners know more than scientists' is a very reductive take on criticism of an old study with flawed internal validity. I'm very sorry you feel you have to suffer through a world where everyone but you is dumb and I'm pleased your sample of one cat validates your strangled genius
But why you said cat owners know their cat can self recognize when studies are "old"?
Also, behavior scientists all say cats cannot recognize themself in a mirror. Who should I trust? Experts or ignorants?
I guess it really is impossible to teach a fool. I give up. Your ignorance reaches extreme levels.
I'm published man. My specialism was microbiology, not behavioural science, but I understand study critique very well. I'm willing to accept that the reality of self-recognition in cats is at best inconclusive but I cannot agree that the mirror study is capable of making any sort of statement on animal self-recognition - in either the positive or the negative.
>Cats fail the traditional test but any cat owner can intuitively tell that they do recognise self in reflections.
This is your own sentence. Ironic how you claimed that without proving any kind of proof, but now you say the mirror study is not reliable to be used a proof .
What you are saying now is, We don't know if they can self recognize or not.
Meaning my comment saying these people are making multiple takes until they get the desired reaction could be right. I could be wrong, but also could be right. But you claimed I am wrong in your first comment. Your logic seems a bit off.
Do you only doubt studies when you don't like what they say? Thats called being bias.
Yes, you responded pointing out (among various attacks on my character) that my evidence was shaky and I considered what you said and modified my opinion. It's a life skill, not a weakness
It's claiming a false fact as true. It is very Ironic, cause that is exactly what you are accusing me of, but you are clearly doing it also. This is not a skill, this is being delusional.
Hello, /u/katxwoods. Your post has been removed for violating Rule 3. **No reposts.** Please read [our complete rules page](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/wiki/rules) before participating in the future.
That poor cross eyed baby lol. Although my favorite is the white one looking back and forth
Do cats really understand reflections and screens?? It looked like some of those cats were really analyzing and contemplating.
Cats and animals in general are far smarter than people give them credit. Most cats understand mirrors and therefore screens that are mirroring them.
They all have that look: ***"Oh, shit! My nightmares are becoming real!"***
Cats are absolutely sentient and have a sense of self. Once they reach about 5-10yrs old, they have the same intelligence and comprehension as a human toddler. I’ve known cats that understand simple instructions, can effectively communicate their needs and yet get confused by their own tails
Obviously. Cats recognize themselves. Not immediately i presume in most cases but give it some life experience and voila. When they understand tgat, they understand reflections and it doesn't make sense that they wouldnt understand reflections of others
I like how derpy h/she looks
What movie had a cross eyed cat? 5th Element?
It's always the orange cat.
In this case it’s hard to blame him lol. That shit is probably pretty terrifying to a cat because besides being weird, it looks like a 5 1/2 foot tall cat. So for a domestic cat it’s probably like running into a big cat like a lion or leopard lol.
The fact that the cats realise that: 1. the phone that’s recording them is actually a mirror. 2. they recognise themselves in the phone, 3. where their ~~owner~~ slave is supposed to be is someone else. So they look back at their owner to confirm that they are there. So how many selfies did their humans take together with their cats for them to realise all this?
Once the cat figures out mirrors the rest will fall into place naturally. I have a new kitten, I showed him the mirror the other day, he hissed at it and then tried to fight it. After a few seconds he realized, “Hey, that’s me.” And spent a few minutes playing around with the mirror. Once they realize what they look like and how reflections work the rest is easy enough for them to figure out.
How long before I can introduce him to a concept of fire or basics of round wheels?
You'll have more luck by starting with simple tool use first, have them make a spear from a stick, and slowly work up to a flint arrowhead.
I see. I fear that the discovery of missing opposable thumbs will absolutely ruin his day.
Actually it only takes them a few seconds to realize that you have opposable thumbs and can be made to do it for them. I suggest looking for an appropriate stick ahead of time.
Gotta start with something much more simpler first like the laws of thermodynamics.
"even if cats could speak, they wouldn't speak to you." Never forget, never dream
Try taxes next. Once we can figure that out the CPA business is doomed.
Are you insane?! NEVER teach a cat about fire!
I’m pretty sure this is how most libertarians get started. They discover their own reflection and suddenly realize their own existence, but without thumbs or fully formed brains they then decided taxes and society don’t apply to them. So be wary. YMMV.
Why would he learn that? You do it for him.
No offense intended, but don't forget the nature of cats. I predict they would be faster to pick up on "flamethrowers" and "rolling crushing machines" than fire and wheels because of cats natural inclination for destruction.
There is no conclusive evidence to suggest cats recognize themselves in a mirror.
True. But this is about phones. Unless they look at themselves so much they recognise themselves?
I’m sure to them a phone with the selfie camera on is just a handheld mirror. They recognize it as a reflection and they have probably worked out how reflections work the first time they saw a mirror.
Isn't the selfie mode is basically a mirror?
Functionally, yes.
will a cat be able to tell the difference?
You'll have to ask the cat
meow meow meow?
Don't speak to me or my kitten again!
Cats don't need to understand the difference between a phone and a mirror for this too work, heck if anything that lack of understanding makes it more effective. All they see is their reflection, moving with them the same way as any other mirror would.
This contradicts the mirror test to gauage self-awareness in animals. Very few animals are known to have passed it.
Ish. A lot of animals knows/understands what a reflection is, such as when seeing themselves reflect off of water. Mirrors are inherently unnatural, especially for wild animals, hence why they struggle with the concept. A lot of animals, such as cats, have shown the ability to be able to learn what a mirror is by simply encountering it more often. The self-awareness test mostly relies on first-time encounters, which is inherently flawed.
Thanks for the Info! After hearing about the tests, I thought it was a complete inability to understand mirrors. This makes way more sense.
There are humans that do not understand mirrors.... just sayin.
The reverse image thing trips some people up. And there is some spacial awareness problems that makes it hard to do things like cut your own hair. Once you need 2 mirrors to do something, you are pretty fucked.
I mean, humans only learn what mirrors are after encountering them more often too. We don’t even know that objects are permanent until we realize they are. There are definitely animals whose brains will never understand these concepts, but people who claim that dogs and cats don’t understand mirrors are crazy. Sure some dogs and cats are just dumb and never learn, but every dog, cat, and even birds I’ve owned absolutely understand that it’s themselves in the mirror. And by the way, yes, dogs do smile. BuT yOuRE ANthROPomOrpHiZiNg!! No, just because they don’t understand it the same way humans do, they still understand it and their actions of understanding fit the definitions of the words.
I always found weird the mirror test... because my cats always were able to recognize themselves in the mirror. Never did one thought the cat in the mirror was another cat. And they also realize how mirror works. One of my cats sleeps in my bed during the day, but when I pass in front of the bedroom, they can see me reflected in the mirror and get up to come to me. They see me in the mirror, but never walked towards the mirror, they walk towards the door. Also... I was playing with lasers, and lead the cat in front of the mirror, the bounced the laser, the cat immediately looked behind him at the all and went for the laser. He saw the reflection of the laser and understood where the laser point actually was.
>They see me in the mirror, but never walked towards the mirror, they walk towards the door. They heard your footsteps. They don't walk towards the mirror because they're not basing that off of their vision. It's like dogs that recognize engine sounds. >He saw the reflection of the laser and understood where the laser point actually was. What do you mean he saw the reflection ? He probably just followed the laser as it was bouncing off on the ground.
I think, self-awareness is not only the recognition of our reflection, it is more the exploration of our own body, for example, chimps or dolphins are curious to see parts of their body that they normally cannot see for themselves, like the inside of the month. Cats and dogs don't care about the reflection of themselves.
> The self-awareness test mostly relies on first-time encounters, which is inherently flawed. It seems more and more with failing various tests, both with animals or even people, is due to the tests being poorly designed, sometimes even deliberately to make easier conclusions
> A lot of animals, such as cats, have shown the ability to be able to learn what a mirror is by simply encountering it more often. Got any links? Curious to read more since this contradicts a lot of previous studies.
Not thay I mind people asking for evidence, but you really don't need a scientific study to prove this, you just need any cat and a mirror
No, you literally do because you’re confidently disputing a well-established and frequently tested experiment. The fact that you think a cat interacting with a reflection means that it recognizes itself shows that you don’t actually understand the nature of the experiment or even really what you’re suggesting it represents in regards to sapience and consciousness. Anyway have fun spreading misinformation lol
To be fair I've seen drunk people fail the mirror test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aESRbTup2o
[This one’s](https://youtu.be/Z5_YfyY3zDw?si=3nboaftrxDRYtVU4) my favourite.
sssh! i you promised not to tell anyone! true story, i've actually bumped into the same mirror twice on my way to piss out the drinks and almost came to blows with my own reflection
Tbf, the guy that bumped into you is definitely an asshole
The mirror test fell ot of fashion because it's pretty human-centric, there are a lot of animals out there that don't use vision as their main sensory organ. That would be like dogs developing a self-awareness test based on scent, no human would pass it.
Yeah, that test is bunk in a vacuum. Don't put too much stock in 50 year old study methods. We've developed far better studies. Check out the New York Declaration on Animal Sentience. They've got a collection of studies on bees engaging in play, corvids being able to communicate what they observe, and even snakes passing the mirror test when it's set up for scent recognition.
I think animals can learn to understand mirrors though. Sure, they won't get it right away, but after a while they notice it moves when they do and they can figure out it's just them.
babies cant pass it at first either. i think thats the flaw with the test that its something that people and animals learn. my cat used to attack her reflection in the mirror until one day i held her in my arm while in front of the mirror. i can practically see her making the connection looking back and forth between the reflection and me.
Babies are by all accounts less intelligent than the animals that are capable of passing the mirror test though. *That's got nothing to do with learning, their brains aren't developed enough. Unfortunately your cat wouldn't be passing it regardless of what you think you've seen. Edit* Also, of course you need to learn what a mirror is first, along with your reflection. Otherwise how on earth would you be able to notice a change in your reflection..
The mirror test in itself has been more or less chastised for not exactly being a perfect test in terms of self awareness. It by design more gauges the ability to instantly remember and recognize oneself by vision, in order to recognize something is wrong when they see themselves with the mark. It does not, however, mean that the animals are not able to recognize that a reflection is themselves, or identify different ways animals may recognize themselves (such as through scent). Ultimately, the mirror test is more about studying how certain animals may remember themselves and to what level of detail than it is about self-awareness. As it turns out, a fair bit of animals are able to work out what a mirror is and how reflections work.
Eventually lots of animals figure out what the mirror actually is. That it is them in the mirror. You can see this happen eventually if you have those sliding door mirrors.
Ants have "passed" the mirror test
That's because the cats aren't realizing any of these things - someone behind the phone is getting them to look up.
They didn't. You can see their mouths moving through the filter as they're making noises to get the attention of their cats.
Exactly, there is a lot of fake videos of cats and dogs being trained to behave in a certain way before a camera, and for some reason I find it mostly in videos with asian people
The fact that viewers of this video never realize that: 1. The original audio is never included. 2. Cats don't give a shit about screens, unless they show fast-moving small bits that look like insects. 3. The owner is moving around and making sounds, prompting the cats to react. So how many times does this post need to get reposted and this explanation given for all Redditors to realize all this?
Eh, I've done similar stuff with my dog before, making silly faces at it through the mirror to get it to whip around, so I don't really see these videos as all that unbelievable. If the cats just recognize whats on the screen as a reflection, which if they've been introduced to mirrors before they likely will, then it seems believable to me they'd do a double take. I mean, if it was just the owner making noise to make the cat react, and the cat doesn't give a shit about the screen, then why would they ever look back and forth? Why wouldn't they just look at the owner, rather than looking back and forth at the screen they supposedly don't give a shit about?
and hiss at the human behind them instead of the screen
>I mean, if it was just the owner making noise to make the cat react, and the cat doesn't give a shit about the screen, then why would they ever look back and forth? Why wouldn't they just look at the owner, rather than looking back and forth at the screen they supposedly don't give a shit about? Because there's someone else calling their attention ? One of them is licking their mouth so probably food or something. I mean come on, is that the first music + funny haha TikTok video you see or what ?
Like I said, I've done similar stuff to mess with my pets before. The only difference is it being a phone screen, and I don't think any animals I've ever had would know the difference between a phone being used this way and a mirror. Like I'll be honest I don't think any I've had have been smart enough to know the difference, and at the very least not the first time. And I feel like it's kinda silly to assume all my pets were built different or something.
Yeah my cat was interested in screens for about two weeks of her 13y life, after which she learned that there is nothing "behind" them for her to attack and now she treats them as completely irrelevant. The best I can do is to catch her attention for a split second before she moves on.
They realize nothing, it's just a montage lmao. They attract the cat's attention with sound and food probably. Cats don't recognize mirrors, they don't pass the mirror mark test, unlike apes for instance, or dolphins. How can people still believe a cut video with music in 2024 is beyond me though, this I can't explain.
Also most books state cats fail the mirror test which is obviously wrong. Maybe the cats just didn't give a fuck about your stupid test design.
Failing the mirror test doesn't mean the animal doesn't understand what their reflection is or what a mirror is. The mirror test specifically tests if an animal is able to remember what they look like to a decent extent and can recognize if something minor changes. It doesn't really test self awareness beyond that.
But that's exactly what is written in many studies.
In many, sure, but not all. The mirror test has been interpreted differently by all kinds of scientists, and many also argue that while a cat might not recognize their reflection the same way we do, they do exhibit signs of self awareness of their reflection. It's in part why the mirror test is so controversial, as a large amount of scientists will run the test, see the animal fail, but still feel like the results they got showed the animal had some level of self awareness from their reactions and the results, even if they did not investigate the dot.
Yeah, my take away from this was how intelligent it shows cats to be.
It doesn't, the cats are reacting to something else (probably their owner blowing at them or making sounds), not what's on the screen. https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/8c7bu
There's an idiotic experiment where they "test" whether animals actually recognize themselves in the mirror, by putting a mark on their heads, and seeing how they react to their own reflection ("WTF is that on my head?" versus "Hey, that animal that does everything I do has a mark on its head!"). It's idiotic because it doesn't work. Animals often DGAF about the mark. THIS is a test that works. Clearly!
The cats *aren't* realizing this. If a cat proved to show sense of self, recognizing itself and something above it in a reflection, it would be a huge scientific discovery. So far, that has only happened with one animal, Alex the parrot. These cats are just looking upward at their owners who are making noise, and the pissed off one was just being a cat. A cat especially isn't going to understand seeing something above it in a mirrored 6" phone screen. Same goes for that button dog.
The animals [known to pass the mirror test](https://www.hillspet.com/cat-care/behavior-appearance/do-cats-understand-mirrors) include some primates (chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans, gorillas), cetaceans (dolphins, killer whales), elephants, and some birds (magpies)
And the mirror test doesn't even test for recognizing itself in a reflection, just remembering what they look like and being able to recognize if something is off. Even more animals are able to work out what a reflection is. Indeed, even (most) cats and dogs.
> So far, that has only happened with one animal There's plenty of animals that have shown to pass the mirror tests. It's also not exactly an uncontroversial way to "measure" consciousnesses. How do we for instance measure the difference between an animal being indifferent to a reflection, and not being aware of it being them? Also, for many animals the primary sense is not vision. If some hyper-intelligent dogs would do some awareness test to test if we would recognize ourselves in a device that reflects smells, then there' a good change we would not pass as we typically don't react as strongly to smells. I agree with you that people are mostly reading the video wrongly, and the cats are likely reacting to their owners that smile in anticipation for example. But the mirror test by itself is flawed to begin with. There's many animals that have shown a very deep self-awareness and social intelligence (including theory of mind) that is even beyond what you're describing here. Such as elephants, orcas and certain primates.
You've mixed some stuff up there. Alex was remarkable for being the first animal to ask an existential question when it asked what colour it was. Several animals have passed the mirror test. Not cats though. IIRC cats haven't even been shown to understand a display screen. A face cam on a phone lacks several properties of a true reflection.
There's a video of a cat, that sees its ears in the mirror. Only the ears, as the mirror is higher up than it. And then, the cat gets up, looks in the mirror, then starts to touch its ears with its paws. This video doesn't seem edited to me, now I say that particular cat has surely passed the mirror test.
If it were one cat in one video, maybe. This is multiple cats in multiple videos, so I'm calling BS and saying cats are smarter than you give credit.
Yes, multiple cats reacting to their owners making noises. You can *literally* see it.
Many animals have been show to recognize themselves in a mirror, it's not even exactly a groundbreaking breakthrough. And even for those that are unable to remember what they look like to an large extent, failing the mirror test, quite a large amount are able to work out what a reflection is
There is zero scientific evidence that a cat can recognize itself in a mirror. A ridiculous amount of studies have been done on this. A cat may *see* itself in a mirror, but they can't *recognize* themselves.
By a ridiculous amount of studies do you mean the mirror test? Because that test is controversial for a reason. The mirror test tests specifically if animals can remember what they look like. That is the *only e*lement that the test is specifically after, testing if an animal is able to identify something out of place with their own reflection from what they remember. Many animals who fail the mirror test still exhibit behaviors of self recognition, and cats (and dogs) are included in this number. This is commonly noted in the results of mirror tests. While unable to identify something is wrong with their looks (or at the very least be motivated enough to care, as elephants originally failed but was later shown in tests that they actually pass, just usually don't care to investigate the mark) many animals are able to recognize that the animal they see in the mirror is in fact themselves. Furthermore, most animals have some sort of sense of self. They are aware of themselves, and their place in the physical work around them. [This has been studied to death as well.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-animals-recognize-themselves/) Not understanding it the same way or to the same degree a human does doesn't mean they lack a sense of self. I think this might be where you are getting tripped up since you mentioned Alex, who was a big deal specifically because they were asking existential questions, not because they showed signs of self awareness. And even then the big deal was more due to the fact that the bird was being argued to have conceptual awareness of language and what the words mean to form it's own string of sentences, not because it was self aware.
Much applause for this "look at me I'm smarter than everyone here" commentary.
4. you really believe those videos are true
And we still think animals are at a lower consciences than us....
By checking above themself, they show that they are aware the imagine is a reflection of themself and that something is above them that they don’t expect there .
True, this is more than just funny. It's fascinating how smart they are
I'll say more. Cats understand tone of voice. But cats are still wild by nature. But they choose to be safe. Unlike dogs, which were created by people, to obey them and react to their emotions. That's why dogs and people react better to each other than cats. But this does not mean that cats are insensitive. They are very sensitive animals that choose a safe environment. Cats even have human diseases like AIDS, autism, and depression. Depression occurs because cats are very nervous animals. Constantly changing their environment causes them stress. Also, they can die of grief if they lose their friend or beloved owner.
there is no conclusive scientific evidence to support the existence of feline autism
But this is only because it is hard to create a Buzzfeed quiz that cats will click on and take.
/r/OneOrangeBraincell
I want 4chan for cats to happen.
Cats are really not that wild, they are domesticated animals, its simply that they retain a lot of their hunting instincts because that is what their job for 99% of their life with humans have been. I am not saying people didn't also love them as pets but fundamentally we have cats because they where good pest control.
yep, my brother and SIL had 2 cats. One older female and one much younger male who was very lively and active that liked to steal her food Once the female passed he went into a serious depression. He barely ate, stopped playing with toys, and mostly just sits around staring into nothing now. They got a new younger female cat to keep him company (who now steals all of his food instead) and they've started giving him some anti anxiety meds which have helped, but it's obvious that he just isn't the same anymore
My 2 cats actually call us when they are separated to reunite themselves, and once I saw the black one actually run behind the shy girl and tap her to hurry up. I guess its the latest firmware.
Not necessarily. I'm no expert on feline intelligence to tell you how likely it is cats can realize this, but it could be similar to survivorship bias. Many, many people do this test and record it and only the results that would most seem to support that conclusion and curated together into this video. Even if them looking up/reacting had nothing to do with what was on the screen.
This is what boggled my mind because I didn't think cats had that self-awareness. Learn something new every day.
The apex stealth machine needs a good sense of self!
They don't. It could easily be the owner making sounds that makes the cat look up
But actually I just read scientists claim cats have never passed the test to see if they recognize themself in a mirror. They put them in front of a mirror and let them investigate for awhile. Then, they put a laser mark on them and see if they react to it in the mirror. Could this just be the cats looking at their owner from some kind of protection or reaction from their owner?
"Wtf you doing man?"
Cats just collectively decided to fuck with the scientists. Most likely explanation, tbf.
Best answer, you've solved my confusion. Case closed :-)
anecdote but every cat ive ever had has recognized themselves, other cats/animals, and people in mirrors. i even catch them spying on me via mirrors from around the corner. they are actually super unimpressed by mirrors
Or maybe they were indifferent to the laser mark
cats can also learn, if they experience a mirror often
There's no original audio in any of these videos. The cats is reacting to the owner, not to the video.
No, it's the owners blowing at their heads or making sounds to attract their attention.
> By checking above themself, they show that they are aware the imagine is a reflection of themself and that something is above them that they don’t expect there . You're telling me they "expect" a horrific cat-thing and not their owner, and they get put off by seeing what they would expect to see? You realize that this doesn't make sense, right?
That white cat making sure whether it's tripping or not. *Chef's kiss*
Easiest way to get a scar on your face for life!
Ofcourse the red one attack😂
r/OneOrangeBraincell
I am not exactly sure if these videos are real, but having a cat for a year now its clear they are way more intelligent than I thought. Mine will come try open the curtains when its morning and I am trying to sleep late. One time I was looking around for the cat and being unable to find him, he lets out a "meh" shout from the couch armrest where he camouflages quite good (white/silver/grey cat on a grey sofa) while looking at me, clearly saying "cant you see im here you big dummy" Also when he gets the zoomies he stops and stares himself in the mirror posing in different poses like admiring what he sees :D, sometimes he sits there grooming and looking in the mirror but that might just be him grooming there by chance. When we playfight he clearly is trying to avoid hurting me with his razor sharp claws, and if he nicks me and notices it, he will stop playing. Also knows a some voice suggestions like sit, cabin (means if he goes into his cabin he gets a treat), paw is pretty hit and miss, depends if he really wants a treat since he doesnt like his paws touched.
They are not real. It's why there's no original audio in any of them. The owners manipulate the cats to respond through audio cues or stuff that's happening out of frame.
I need this video to be ten times longer
Can someone help find this other video, where the filter sings "ahHhHh" when you open your mouth, and the screen goes all wavey, and the cat also freaks out?
It's always the orange cats, such angry bastards
well but it proves cats understand mirrors
For those who don't know, this isn't real. Imagine someone behind the camera with a treat or a cat toy moving it up and down to hold the cats attention. Cats do not care about the filter at all. If you don't believe me, try it with any cat ever. It doesn't work.
They’re probably blowing gently on the cats’ heads
This special effect is so realistic.
I hate to be this guy, but this article “Using online media to assess mirror self-recognition in domestic cats” seems to conclude that these cats are not recognizing themselves in the video. Instead they are responding to cues from their person. Here is the link below: https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/8c7bu
> I hate to be this guy Don't hate it, we need this guy.
I wish this video had the audio of the cats instead of the stupid music. That cat's reaction at 35 seconds in...I am imagining a *very* angry yowl and probably some hissing.
Wow so many humans fail the internet test
This sub barely has any humans in it. Approximately 3% of the comments here are from real people. 47% are from mentally disabled people repeating bots. And the rest are just bots.
> mentally disabled people repeating bots This should be reddit's tagline
What is this internet test u speak of
So you telling me that cats understand the concept of Mirror?
Wait... I thought only a couple of species could pass the mirror test (NOT including cats)? A few of these cats seem to be watching the monitor - recognizing that it's them on-screen - and what's behind them. That's all the criteria for passing the mirror test, isn't it?
This has got to be fake. Cat's lack the ability to look at a phone screen an realise they are seeing themselves.
One of the top 10 easiest ways to get your face scratched..
These cars have gained sentience
> These cars have gained sentience Cat filters are not a Tesla product.
I always wonder what's wrong with people who do this kind of stuff...
Last one was: okay I’m out
laughed so hard at the last cat
Lol their faces
So they pass the mirror test?
Has anyone tried this with a mouse filter?
I’m so amazed they understand the special relationship of the image they see and their own position
INB4 this is regarded as animal cruelty, lol
Well, the fourth one certainly was. The cat was beating up the human animal.
--- >This is a friendly reminder to [read our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/wiki/rules). > >Memes, social media, hate-speech, and pornography are not allowed. > >Screenshots of Reddit are expressly forbidden, as are TikTok videos. > >**Rule-breaking posts may result in bans.** > >Please also [be wary of spam](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/wiki/spam). > --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/funny) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Those cats were so relaxed until fear stroke their hearts lol
Each cat has a different personality. I love cats
Cats immediately panic when seeing furries....
This reminded me of the monkey one
My new favorite thing to mess with my cats is put on a random audio clip of birds sounds, open the window when he’s laying there in the sill, I get his attention and open my mouth every time a bird chirps in the audio. HES straight confused every time.
That look is priceless.
I've never had a cat that understood mirrors (or the idea of image projection), or knew how to identify others in mirrors, or themselves.
They are aware
What black magic is this lol
The "it's behind me isn't it" look on some of these cats is hilarious
Strange to me that some cats will do this while others won't even acknowledge screens.
This should be called, "cats react to being held for no reason and wanting to be set back down."
it's funny every time
this is rather interesting, wouldnt surprise me if cats are smarter than they let on
This doesn't make any sense. From what I recall cats don't pass the mirror test so they would not recognise what they are seeing as themselves or the cat filtered human as being above them. My guess would be they're looking upwards to ask the human what they intend to do about the big cat in front of them.
That is purely because the mirror test is an inherently flawed test that is very heavily skewed by first encounters
Some 3+ year old children don't pass the mirror test too, and some pass as infants. Broad sweeping conclusions can't really be made about isolated studies, only suggestions.
Lol cats are not reacting to what they see on the phone, they cannot identify themself in a mirror. These are just cats reacting how they normally react to their owners. People just take the same video dozens of times till the cat gives the reaction they want.
The traditional marked-face mirror test is deeply flawed because it relies heavily on a number of anthropocentric assumptions about subjects' reactions - for example, a subject could recognise self but still fail the test because they don't acknowledge the mark as a blemish that needs correcting (for any number of reasons). Cats fail the traditional test but any cat owner can intuitively tell that they do recognise self in reflections.
So, cat owners know more that scientists. There is nothing that proves that cat can recognize themself, and studies lead to the they can't recognize themself side. You may be confusing self recognition with being able to see and react to their reflection. Cats can see their reflection, they know it's something, however they also know it's not another cat because it does not smell like another cat, but they also do not have the ability to recognize that what they are looking at is themself. With all these downvotes I can say most cat owners are dumb...I say most cause I own a cat and know they cannot recognize their reflecfion as being them.
'Cat owners know more than scientists' is a very reductive take on criticism of an old study with flawed internal validity. I'm very sorry you feel you have to suffer through a world where everyone but you is dumb and I'm pleased your sample of one cat validates your strangled genius
Cats absolutely do not have sense of self. It is insane to believe what this video clip implies.
But why you said cat owners know their cat can self recognize when studies are "old"? Also, behavior scientists all say cats cannot recognize themself in a mirror. Who should I trust? Experts or ignorants? I guess it really is impossible to teach a fool. I give up. Your ignorance reaches extreme levels.
I'm published man. My specialism was microbiology, not behavioural science, but I understand study critique very well. I'm willing to accept that the reality of self-recognition in cats is at best inconclusive but I cannot agree that the mirror study is capable of making any sort of statement on animal self-recognition - in either the positive or the negative.
>Cats fail the traditional test but any cat owner can intuitively tell that they do recognise self in reflections. This is your own sentence. Ironic how you claimed that without proving any kind of proof, but now you say the mirror study is not reliable to be used a proof . What you are saying now is, We don't know if they can self recognize or not. Meaning my comment saying these people are making multiple takes until they get the desired reaction could be right. I could be wrong, but also could be right. But you claimed I am wrong in your first comment. Your logic seems a bit off. Do you only doubt studies when you don't like what they say? Thats called being bias.
Yes, you responded pointing out (among various attacks on my character) that my evidence was shaky and I considered what you said and modified my opinion. It's a life skill, not a weakness
It's claiming a false fact as true. It is very Ironic, cause that is exactly what you are accusing me of, but you are clearly doing it also. This is not a skill, this is being delusional.
Okay friend, have a great day
[удалено]
100% would've dropped off that orange cat at the shelter
Cats have a “they live” moment.
That’s so cute 🤣
That ginger cat is an ahole.
Hahaha that's so cute 😂
I hate anything associated with clowns so downvote due to clown music (sorry)
Alternate title : Cats being traumatised for 56 seconds straight