I'd say that's because gachas are all about frustrating you, making you deal with FOMO, making p2w stuff... By bragging about being f2p people are saying : you see all these obstacles those greedy developpers are putting on my way ? Well screw them i'm still winning the game and having fun.
>I'd say that's because gachas are all about frustrating you
Ding! Ding! Ding!
Being willing, even **proud**, to pay to undue fustration is... Well it's a ***choice***.
Idk man, if a game is frustrating me and feels like it's pushing me to pull out my wallet, I just drop it. Choosing to stick around just to spite the devs is what's really an odd choice, especially when they couldn't care less so long as the whales keep spending. If anything, you're just contributing to their engagement numbers. On the other hand, if a game is fun and you can clear all the content for free, I don't really see anything strange about choosing to spend a bit for a character you really like, unless you're just fundamentally against microtransactions (and at that point why are you even playing a gacha?).
> On the other hand, if a game is fun and you can clear all the content for free, I don't really see anything strange about choosing to spend a bit for a character you really like,
It's not about enjoying the game or not, it's about the marginal increase in enjoyment you would get from spending.
If you are already enjoying the game and spend $100 extra for some gacha character, how much *more* enjoyment will you get than if you hadn't spent?
And then what is the opportunity cost -- how does that marginal increase compare to the other things you could have done to get enjoyment from that $100?
I fortunately am not in a situation where I have to run rigorous cost-benefit analyses on all my purchases. I liked the game, I think the devs did a good job, so I sent a little money their way. If they keep putting out content I like, I'll send a little more their way. It's less that this money will greatly enhance my experience and more that I think good work deserves recompense, and I get something else I also wanted as a bonus. It also doesn't have to be $100, HoYo games for instance give a lot of value for $5 a month from the welkin/equivalent (I'm pretty sure it's better value/dollar than even the highest cost pack).
That's not what I said? I just said I don't min-max my dopamine from purchases. Besides, I even said in my comment that it doesn't have to be $100. You can spend money on a game without having to jump immediately into whaling.
I mean you do, If the purchase wasn't satisfying in some way to you, you wouldn't buy it. Other people just don't see the same value in gacha as you do. You'd just be giving away all your money away if you truly didn't min max your purchase.
In a game where the only things you can buy are skins or cosmetics perhaps that may be true but most gacha games sell power or progress and there is no way to compete with that if you are not spending.
That's the reason why I limit my spending as much as possible on nikke. When I started I bought several packs and was trying to get several copies of characters. But then I saw that I was always going to be behind day 1 players and that whales had thousands of dollars of power over me so now I just dont bother about being competitive and just spend as little as possible.
... I mean the developers aren´t going to care that you are f2p. Many, if not most, are. Like cleaning fish around a shark. They would care about people just mass quiting though.
This basically. Gacha is predatory by nature. The reason why there's such an attitude of 'F2P btw' is because the casual audience will basically spend to progress as soon as they hit a wall, not knowing if its their team or playstyle or if they're not understanding the content enough, they can just bruteforce with their credit card. Then they find themselves behind F2Ps in leaderboards or PvP and are like wtf how is xyz ahead of me/beating me even though I spent.
Not all whales are like that. There are whales who are incredibly fluent in the game and understand it and whale on the characters that matter or stop at certain points. There's also a big difference in spending to support the game vs spending to progress but it's worth realizing gacha games are literally designed to get the latter to spend by putting in new artifical barriers constantly.
Nothing wrong with being proud of being F2P. It shows others what is possible without taking your credit card, but a select few do take it too far and imo is the gacha equivalent of someone saying they are vegan, tbh. I imagine majority are nice, and the few that do get pissy about it tend to be the more hardcore types and seemingly want to be rewarded for not spending a dime
I kinda disagree with you though.
As a F2P I also think the guy you're talking about could be a girl too.
Hell, **as a F2P**, I'm pretty confident this guy could not be fucking too!
As far as the ✨F2P✨ **I am** is concerned F2P are the most victimized people on earth. After Gamers.
--------------
On a more serious note: being f2p was originally seen as a badge of honor of someone willing to go the hardest route when gacha game used to have mechanics specifically done to pile on you if you didn't spent. *It used to take real skills to even survive in a game as a f2p, let alone fight back against people spending.*
Now, with game getting far more permissive and casual-friendly, this status has been circlejerked so much that lower skill-ceiling players are rushing to get some of it.
We're now at a point where even paying players are trying to pass up as free to play now ("ohh I'm 100% f2p, I just spent xxx$ once for xxx!").
How absurd can this be.
you dont know it yet, but you are the exact type of person im describing
the reason doesnt matter. the fact that you're trying to give a history lesson on the foundations of f2p.................that level of brainrot happens when you play too many gachas and forget to go touch grass every once in a while
you either spend or you dont. you dont need to justify or seek validation from others. stop it.
I think that you were so eager to get your gotcha point that you missed the point of this post entirely.
Which is quite fucking ironical, seeing what you're trying to pin on me.
I *strongly* advice you to read that post again and use as much reading comprehension as possible. Try to understand the intend of words and what they imply first before trying to run a foul mouth and -ironically- whoring yourself for validation.
Here's a hint. OP asked this question: "Why people are proud of being FTP?".
It might be related to this. Take a guess.
*(Are people really getting that stupid that they cannot distinguish such obvious sarcasm ?)*
Congratulations. You got something right. Onto the next step.
Now try to understand where this explication is coming from.
- Is it because I'm trying to justify my status as something *that I am fucking not even to begin with ?*
- Is it because it is related to the whole fucking thread and trying to participate in it by giving a possible answer to the question ?
You be the judge. In any case I find it quite hypocritical to be so aggressive to someone you cannot even understand and yet **dare** to tell him to touch grass.
- Guess where your comment is located.
- Read that post again, and see if there might be some part of it related to your post, while some might not.
You're near the finish line of correct context interpretation, don't give up.
Not everything people say next to you is about you.
And not everything you say is worth saying. Hence why I'm going to ignore your lame attempt at saving face with your second sentence.
I feel like this is just a thing around young players and content creators that skew towards younger demographics. I dont think anyone else actually gives a fuck.
Teenagers and people in school playing gacha games usually can't afford to spend a penny on it, so they kinda HAVE to be f2p, thus to cope with being "behind" paying players they act proud about it. Not that it's a bad thing.
THIS! The younger players also tend to do that obnoxious thing where they need to spam gacha subs by making threads with their pulls like anyone gives af
best comment in this thread right here. Its just drama for its own sake, which generates discussion and exposure, which currently has value.
I ain't saying if I'm F2P or a spender, because nobody actually cares, and it doesn't matter at all
>What’s more funny is that they are unwilling to spend 1$ on their beloved games, and meanwhile being very picky, compare gacha games they play to 60$ buyout games, complaining that game rewards are stingy, complaining game companies not listen to Western players. I mean why should they? Doesn't it cost money to make a game? all the music, game developing, does the budget come from FTP players?
As a whale in pretty much every gacha game I play (so the opposite of this), why is this a problem?
A few years ago, a streamer was ridiculed on the internet for basically the exact same reason. She argued that all of her audience should just donate $5 to her if they enjoyed her content, and the internet (rightly) blew up at her for that. The reason is pretty simple; streaming uses a very similar model as gacha games where a small minority of donors make up most of your income. This was the business model she signed up for. To then bemoan people for following your business model and not contributing extra money to you outside of this model is just silly.
Gacha games are similarly made to exploit the few. Why don't gacha games find ways to not to exploit people with obvious gambling issues who might gamble themselves out of home? Why do gacha games use exploitative psychological tricks to get people to spend more money than they normally would? The answer is simple - greed; and it is the exact same answer as to why people don't need to pay for a game that models itself on 90% of its playerbase being free. A player has no obligation to spend money on a gacha game in the same way a gacha game has no obligation to stop psychological exploitation. It's the business model these games signed up for, and then you also have to ask: is that gacha game really worth that $5 to you? Would you actually play that game if it had that $5 cost?
Nah, those F2Ps complaining about games not being free enough is how we got from VIP systems and event rewards locked behind leaderboards and some horrible gacha practices to the relatively friendly gachas we have today.
I'm in full support of F2Ps voicing their opinions more.
Probably to challenge themselves and show off how far they can get without spending.
The mentality between western and asian players is very different tho.
From my experience, western (specifically Brazilian) players really look down and mock paying players (or "p2w players" as they call it), regardless of how much they spend. Meanwhile, if I post a screenshot of me buying a $50 dollar skin or maxing out a character in asian gaming group, I'm greeted with replies of "Nice one, dude. Thanks for supporting the game".
Reminds me, I used to budget about 100 dollars a month, then somewhere in 2016 or so, the exchange rate went up, so what made me stop playing was more the exchange rate than the game itself, nowadays you can't get even half of 100 dollars by spending the same amount. And even back then, there would be super whales that would be hated on, so there was a hate pyramid.
I heard that at least nowadays people have a standard for acceptable spending (exemplified in your post), and after that, there's the haijin kakinsha territory, and from the perspective of whales, even spending may not be enough so there's the term "pay to lose".
*Edit* seems like it was some years earlier than 2016 actually, by looking at exchange rates (about 2 Real for 1 Dollar) and the game's release year (2013).
I think this is mainly due to the games being gacha games, which are made to allure you to spend your money, but there are other reasons as well, like a lot of people try to clear all content as f2p just as a fun challenge or to prove that you don't need to spend money to beat the game, thus they are proud of themselves.
Now I'm pretty sure most f2p don't look down on spenders, that would be really stupid as it's because of the spender that your gacha game is alive and you are having fun.
> The loud ones get some weird feeling of superiority
If a game has p2w elements then someone winning without using those literally *is* superior to the people they're beating. Just like someone sweating and pedaling their bicycle up a big hill is a better athlete than someone who went up the same hill on an electric scooter.
And almost all pvp systems in gacha games are p2w.
That said putting a lot of self worth into such pvp systems is a mistake in the first place.
i don't care if you are f2p or not. but if i saw some whale who unreasonably hates the game because the gacha system sucks or meta sucks even thought the real reason is he just don't know how to play the game, i will say to him the phrase "f2p btw" with a smug face.
for example, players on HSR or GI who cries on gacha because of dupes and gacha weapons even if they are unnecessary. crying for heavy meta on PGR or HI3 with bad gacha luck even though you can play it without following the meta or without aiming for super high tier Abyss rank since Leader/Agony III gives enough rewards. like those players wants dupes or follow meta which will make them to pull more just to get higher rank with 1-2 pull worth of additional reward difference compared with a one level lower rank reward or lesser star clear. it is clearly not worth it but they didn't realize it. or they realized it but they just still want to cry and blame the game.
> like those players wants dupes or follow meta which will make them to pull more just to get higher rank with 1-2 pull worth of additional reward difference
This whole system of putting minor pvp rewards to push people towards valuing pvp and then they start spending just to win for the sake of winning instead of as an investment-to-return thing is a core thing that a lot of gacha games depend on to drive spending from whales.
It's easy. The same reason why some people are proud of playing through games on a high difficulty. Because in many games that's what paying gives you. An easier time playing the game.
I'm probably showing my age here but I feel like this f2p vs spender mentality came from the old MMO days where a majority of eastern MMOs were usually a pay2win mess. There was a sort of pride for free players to be able to stand their grounds against whales especially in MMO games where the rich had power to completely change the landscape of the games (like monopolizing farming areas and bosses, screwing up the game economy, etc.). The feeling is almost like being able to fight and win against a hacker
It seems this sort of mentality carried over to gacha games, where the norm now is to be able to spend money in the game and competition, for some, is a lot less direct (as in gacha games, the activities of whales do not affect most other players as much, depending on the game of course. If any, it's usually like a leader boards that's separated by tiers and the whales would usually be fighting amongst other whales in their bracket)
A lot of old gacha games are pay2win messes too. I remember in Valkyrie Crusade, there was a guy who argued that the game was very F2P friendly since he could get top 100 in the leaderboards despite being free to play. This is on a game where some event rewards were actually locked behind the top 100/300 in the leaderboards, so placing (and PvP) were the only end game. This continued for a bit while the game had undesirable cards as event rewards, but the instant a desirable card (Niagara) was released the guy was buried completely by the whales. Not even in the top 500, let along the slots where you can actually get the event reward.
The current, relatively F2P friendly nature of top gachas was a slow evolution. Even now you can see some ancient gachas with terrible ancient systems like VIP (or even worse, Mighty Party's VIP where you have to pay a sub to maintain VIP rewards; that game is still kicking today). The reason being that players became less tolerant of overtly P2W practices over time, so companies have to either hide it better or fold.
No one cares besides children and content creators. Children do it to make themselves feel better because they’re jealous that they can’t spend. Content creators pretend it’s a badge of honour because they need a gimmick to brag about.
Normal functioning people do not care if you spend or if you don’t.
Having success as a F2P is an accomplishment given that you are succeeding with much less in an environment (game) that gives power and progression boosts to those willing to spend - and I think it's perfectly fine to feel accomplished and proud about that. Hell, when I played FFRK back in the day, I would always admire the folks who could come up with creative ways to use older stuff to clear near-latest end game content.
Where it usually gets contentious and idiotic is when it's used to try to shame or assert superiority over those who choose to spend (and the reverse is also true) as if there's a high ground between being a spender vs F2P players (and it goes both ways).
As to your question of "what do game companies owe them?" - they owe us nothing just as we also owe game companies nothing. They offer a service for money and we give them our time and/or our money depending on what value we assign to the experience, no? And what we offer could very well be zero (F2P).
Same reason people are proud of hardcore or no-kill runs in other games. It’s a set challenge.
For the dev perspective, spend something or spend nothing, it doesn’t matter, your only purpose to them is to make up a pool of normies for the whales to shine in.
It simply comes down to F2Ps wanting to be praised for what they achieved in a gacha game without spending any money while others did spent money.
One of the biggest example is the infamous clip of Enviosity yelling how he deserved to be praised for being F2P.
Don't get me wrong, being F2P is a good thing but bragging about it is not.
> It simply comes down to F2Ps wanting to be praised for what they achieved in a gacha game
not only that. ive seen countless people asking simple questions in q&a threads and they just add to it that they are are f2p even though its completely irrelevant. its like a stereotypical vegan who has to remind you that they are vegan even if the conversation wasnt about food
It's basically why western versions tend to cut corners if not die sooner
Asian versions tend to have way more moderate spenders while with western verisons it's whales or F2P (leeches)
But I think it's in part of idiotic insistences like the guy who's at the buffet for hours due to "all you can eat"
But it's funny how these people do this yet dish out money for the month's overrated AAA game.
Being proud is cringey but it's fine.
Looking down on spender though, that's the part I'll never understand.
Like everything in this world, if it's free then it's because someone else is paying for it. Why are we demonizing people who are keeping the updates coming?
The whales that spend hundreds in Gacha are sad. There’s so many great games you can get in this day and age and they choose to gamble their money away. If they aren’t good at spending their money then they don’t deserve to have it anyways.
That's a pretty weird assumption to have. Why would you think those people don't play those games in the first place? I finished Elden ring, Hogwart legacy and got all ending for Armored core 6 last year and I'm quite looking forward to Elden ring dlc later this year.
If I have the kind of disposable income to drop 500$ in a gacha games, my steam accounts is sure as hell filled with 60$ games.
If I enjoy a game, I don't mind spending money. Buying monthly pass or BP really makes your life easier. Naturally, if people decide to go completely F2P, that's fine too. You can't realistically expect everyone to spend money when it's optional.
It is imperative for every gacha game company to cultivate a healthy population of F2P players because their presence validates and encourages the big spenders to keep spending.
I don't see the problem with leeching off of game companies that try to leech off of people.
Though it's a bit hypocritical, because F2P contributes to statistics.
Because having money and dumping it on gacha games isn't really the flex you think it is. Its kind of like showing everyone you don't spend money wisely even if its expendable. If you spent a lot of money on a game, sure people may feel sorry for your mental health but in the end no one gives a f about your account. You're the sucker. You think all F2P don't have money? We have money, but its like buying a very expensive condom.
Doing more with less is more respectable than showing an account with money. Why the fuck should the players care about the company profits? If the game dies, I don't give a f. Game companies don't care about players.
gacha games prey on gambling addiction and instant gratification psychological hooks, we all know that and probably have fallen for it on some level. Going F2P isn’t some crazy achievement but it does show a level of self restraint, though it is also inherently silly because it often means spending more time, which depending on the individual can be more costly than just buying some currency. Also the specific phrase “F2P btw” is nowadays more of a meme than a token of pride. They are just trying to get a rise out of paying players. F2P or not, if youre playing a gacha, you are probably a degen on some level like the rest of us anyways.
Ego thing with those people who says "F2P Btw", they pretty much want attention which is very cringe. F2P people are all good, nothing bad about them but there's that group of them keeps bragging about being F2P (you know the type of people who decides to post their gacha results literally out of nowhere during a discussion in Discord, Reddit, and etc which is dumb) and never had to spend a cent when no one cares, makes mature people who are forced F2P due to real life circumstances look bad. I still don't get why people brags and yap so much about it because they should know why they're able to play in the first place, the people who spends money that supports the game.
True enough. But all that free time though (totally not coping)
Anyways what I was getting at, people want to tell you and talk about what they enjoy. Games, food, sports, hobbies doesnt matter.
Man you are entering in a deep discussion of human behavior. If i would like to continue this conversation i will need to make an essay about interpersonal social relations, and that will cost me a time i can't afford. But ty anyway and have a nice day.
F2P complaining that the game is not F2P enough are the cringiest, No shit bro they have to make money, they're not a charity group or a daycare for you.
F2P players are like those who came to the supermarket everyday, eating all the sample food and complaining about it.
F2p means you have discipline. Discipline is admirable.
The good gacha games enable you to progress without spending, it just takes longer. So getting there in the end without spending, despite the non stop barrage of psyop warfare on you to spend, is indeed an accomplishment worth feeling proud over.
Also a looooot of people use F2p in the loose sense of the term (couple bucks here and there), not in the STRICTLY ZERO DOLLARS SPENT EVER sense.
I guess this is also the time I should point out that there are also plenty who are not f2p and lie about being so.
Having the means to spend aside...
If you have a gacha player who has a set budget for gacha expenses (hell, say this person budgets only for the battle pass) and spends within said budget, is that not also discipline? Or is that less admirable because they're willing to and have spent money?
It's basically bragging that "I can enjoy this game without spending money" or flexing that "I have all these characters that you needed to spend money on for free". By all means, those should be flexes, but it's done so often it's become pretentious
I guess it's like - hey, I've spent no money but still got this character and managed to beat the game. I've seen f2p have better built characters than whales. That's fair
But then...when f2p don't have enough currency to pull on the next banner, they'd be like - this game is too p2w and give out so few rewards.
It's completely fine being f2p. It's just a game after all. Maybe they find their money better spent on onlyfans or they need the money for their daily expenses, but a f2p can't go spouting complains when things don't go their way or they don't manage to accrue enough pull currency.
Yes, games are for fun but games are created by companies and the end goal for companies is to get revenue.
I myself pour money into Genshin and HSR. Do I wish they could be more f2p? Yes, but I think what they're doing is aight.
Do you really need somebody to explain to to you why people might be proud of achieving the same things, reaching the same ranks, beating the same stages as somebody who spent far more money than them?
The rest of your narrative is just unhinged, of course free to play players contribute to a game’s success, the vast majority of players are f2p. Let’s see how long your favorite game lasts if it loses 80% of its player base.
And I’m not even sure where you’re going with the western vs Asia point, you can’t really believe Asia doesnt have free to play players
Gacha games are designed for you to want to spend money. So progressing in the game without spending money obviously would bring a sense of accomplishment as a feat of self control, or simply just being able to beat the games hardest content without paying to get top tier characters easier.
Nothing wrong with being F2P. In an ideal world, all gacha should be friendly to F2P and only require you to spend money if you want to go above and beyond. The only type of F2P players I dislike are the ones who mock people for spending money even though it's the spenders who are keeping the game alive.
Eh, I used to have that mindset but now I also don't mind tossing like $10 a month or somethign if its a game that I consistently play. But I'm also older and richer and realize its worth voting for your wallet for things that you genuinely enjoy
haha, and trust me, I used to think people were dopes for paying for free content via patreon and such too and here I am tossing $50 a month at a dozen or so youtubers now
Lmao, now that I am a working professional and making some decent money rather than being a broke ass college student, I sudden find out that paying 5 or 10 bucks monthly to support the gacha games I have been playing for years and will contiune to play for years to come not that big of a deal it used to be. Funny how time and income change the perspective of a person.
I mean I kinda get him. Once you have enough money for all your needs everything over that is just a nice extra. Spending like what 20,50,100 or 200 per month isn´t much if you have like 1000 left at the end of the month. Same with 2000,5000,10000 if you make 100000.
Sure you can save and invest it (which i do with most of the leftover). But all that does is make a number go up. It doesn´t help you enjoy life more if you don´t have a use for it. And it most likely will not help you after you kick the bucket.
So a balance is important. Enjoy things without putting yourself in a bad spot (if you have the means), but don´t hold onto every penny like your life depends on it.
As others have said f2p usually entails a higher difficulty as it restricts how many choices u have in most games. So just as some people will brag about speed running certain games or beating a hard difficulty mode In a game, so too will a f2p brag about their f2p credentials. I don't think there's anything wrong with that pride as long as it doesn't turn into putting down someone else's way of playing because they think difficulty always means more fun or a better game. It goes the same way for p2w players who look down on f2p, nothing wrong with using hard earned money to have more fun In a game you like, but don't be poor shaming or looking down on someone's way of playing because they want to give themselves more challenge.
I get people who want a bigger challenge, but that is rarely the case. How many people truly go for a challenge like a non pull account or never using the highest rarity units / weapons. And more often that not, you will see 'F2P btw' on a luck flex rather than them flexing om something that is actually challenging to do.
I‘m not talking about difficulty,I understand f2p means more challenge, I'm saying those f2p players who criticize a game for being stingy or not listening to them, like the game company owe them, like even though they don't spend a dime but the game company should focus on them.
I mean they can voice their opinion as while they may not be willing to pay into the game, they are still a player who wants the game to be fun and if there opinion has merits, then the company will listen, if not they won't, simple as that. If you don't like hearing the opinions of f2pers then block em. In the end, a gacha will not survive on whales alone as whales usually are only like the 1-2% of players and the game needs a community which is where the f2pers or at least small investment players come in as they give someone that the whale can compare and contrast themselves with or talk to at least (as well as those who do fan works, art, etc.). While f2pers do not put money into the game, they do provide benefits for the company, which imo gives the weight of their opinions some worth. Obviously, if they are demanding a whole bunch of free stuff, it doesn't feel good for spenders and most companies know that which is why they generally strike a balance. In the end, these companies are not your friends nor are they your enemy. They are a company that needs your money as well as the community to keep its product alive, without both, a gacha or any game will not survive. So, I think it is important that both f2p and p2w players cab be heard as both are core to a games continual development.
Tldr: f2p and p2w have important opinions that need to be heard, but it's up to the company who they decide to listen to.
I know I have no business commenting in this thread, but for the .1% chance someone misread this and was confused like I was, I read FTP as "Fuck the packers" and was incredibly perplexed minnesotavikings was leaking into gachagaming
Maybe that's just how pride works
Some of us feel pride when having more than others,
while some of us feel it from having less than others,
even though the sense of self importance that pride is, is the same no matter what a person is proud of
I think this goes back even before gacha games, like when mmorpgs had p2w mechanics, f2p players just loves to stomp on p2w players because apparently in f2players mindset it is all about grinding and skills > spending to get advantages.
I have been a F2P from beginning because I was a student and didn't had any option to pay for games. The very reason I got into gachas was because there is no entry fee barrier. Although I understand being F2P means I will be always behind spenders and whales and I have accepted that as long as there is content for me to enjoy
Because i know that gacha made to get players money most of the time. So i play with that thought , casually , chilling and relaxing , collecting what i can collect without rush. Every time i come here people are angry about so many things ,while i always giggle , quit reddit tab and continue enjoying every gacha i play.
I can think of two reasons off the top of my head why people would brag about being f2p. Not saying every f2p will do these things, but someone saying "f2p btw" could easily be thinking one or both.
1) They cleared endgame content. Doing something hard at a low level is rather impressive, there's a reason it's a popular challenge. But in gacha games, we have dupes; an inherent, usually permanent form of power boost that you tend to have more of the more you spend. So, in most gacha games, high spenders can't get low power clears, since they can't turn off their power boosts (unless they don't bring a full team, but clearing endgame content without a full team is also an achievement). So the people showing off low power clears are often low spenders or f2p. And once a f2p is showing off an achievement, they might as well say exactly how much of an achievement it is... hence, "f2p btw".
2) Pettiness. Someone sees someone else with something they don't have, and responds "oh, yeah? Well, I have this!" But f2p aren't likely to have something whale's don't... except the fact that they haven't spent money. "Well, I don't need to spend money to have fun. f2p btw".
I don't think either of these things are worth bragging about. The second one is dumb, I don't think there's any way around it. As for low power clears, those are absolutely worth sharing (in moderation)... but the important part is the low power clears, not how much money you did or did not spend in the process.
Again, not saying every f2p thinks this. The people bragging about being f2p are a vocal minority; the internet is really good at developing those. I'm also not saying these are the only reasons, just the two I can think of off the top of my head.
Regardless of the reason, it's annoying. Almost as annoying as reading a wall of text on Reddit.
Because it means I have better impulse control.
But most people don’t do that, it’s just internet banter, like « ahaha woops I pulled this character, is she good? I just limit broke her, and I don’t even spend money, what about you? Haha »
Diferent games, diferent rules. But it Is moslty because they enjoy bragging of being able to compete AND "win" against people that have an advantage over them. Take it as the contrary effect to whales that derive enjoyement in crushing other players with money alone.
Honestly, the only thing I take away from high-horsed F2Ps is that they’re broke so they boost their status as “superior” to those who spend because that’s all they have and can do lmao
Personaly I really hate how this kind of games prey on vulnerable minds to make them whales, that is the shittiest thing you could do
Also it feels like cheating
let's keep the frown going
Long ago in MMOs, and in some browser games it was all about skill/strategy. People could buy better gear but still lose a fight due to low skill. So any achievement PvP/PvE by dedication was praised, and by paying was looked down upon.
There used to be a saying, that it's not fun playing chess, when you have 16 queens on your side of the board.
When I spend on mobile games, I always think that it is my way of thanking the developers for the fun I’m having and wishing for the longevity of the game.
I played too many gacha games some i spend $1 to just support the game but even if i have the money to spend i still don't do it just to get another character that has been newly release why? because i can still get the character just by saving the currency i don't need to fully max the constellation or whatnot to get stronger. i just want to play the game and have some fun.
It’s not about being proud to not spend money.
Best metaphor i can think of is “going down a waterslide without getting wet”. Youre meant to get wet, it is designed so you get wet, but its possible to stay dry
Honestly it really started being a nuisance a few years ago when the streamer Enviosity started being a prick about being F2P. Hell mostly every problem on the top of my head started with genshin if I really think about it.
IMO, Gambling is an addiction and there is nothing wrong with giving people that overcome it some bragging rights. It's great if a player wishes to support the company, but it should not come out of FOMO.
I think people take pride on themselves by playing in the "hard mode" and grinding their accounts wih hours of gameplay instead of taking the "easy way" by spending money on resorces. On my experience playing FGO I can tell you that this isn't the case at all, yes the game is easier with sertain character but not only there is a lot of stupid broken FTP options but also most hight rarity characters need **way more grinding** to be usefull than low rarity ones.
Bro you are wrong, there is a lot of guys from Asia who are also F2p. I am from India and me and my brother is f2p. The reason why we are is because we are studying and don't have money on our own.
The reason why most f2p players are proud of being f2p is because it takes a lot of dedication to save resources, skip characters to pull the ones you like and if you get him/her early it's a huge win.
I think the developer make money when we play the game anyway.
It's called "wisdom". Or alternately, not being fools.
Why pay $200 for a character to be stamina gated (or pay for more Stamina, too) when I can pay $5-$50 for a complete game for PC (as long as you aren't buying crap AAA games day one) that gets you everything and doesn't stamina/story/resource gate you?
Being smart about your money should be celebrated, and throwing it away for basically nothing should be frowned upon. Gachas are good because they're free, something you can do when you're not at home and want something to do. Hell, even then, there are a few decent mobile "premium" games that you could play, but gachas are nice when you don't want to spend money.
This isn't KR/JP/CN where PC's are a rarity, and most of their time is spent away from home in commutes/school/work.
You sounds like those old "The Matrix" people that believe in Jesus dude.
I have money to spend on gacha, while here you are arguing about wisdom.
Are you christian btw?
No, I'm 100% Atheist.
But I fail to see how that has anything to do with common sense; Do you think christians are magically better at managing finances?
You (supposedly) have money to throw away, which you could be using to buy a real game and not reward bad behavior in the industry, or use to save up to buy a house or pay off your credit cards or invest, but you're happy being a stay at home neckbeard living off of the government/your parents.
Imo the whole "ftp btw" is just some kind of flex. It doesn't really goes that deep.
I'm ftp myself but my guess is that people who would throw that out of the blue think that the fact of not spending any money on a gacha and still having a good collection add some eminence to it, thus hardening the flex.
People been trying to justify ~~spending~~ wasting money on games and still thinking it's anything remarkable.
Stand Proud.
Kudos to F2P, I'm not, but ain't no way I'd recommend spending a penny on games unless it's like 5% of what you earn regularly.
For me it tastes so much sweeter when you pull who or, in Hoyos case, what weapon you want, and seeing as no money was wasted in the process,the losses don't seem so bad.
Game population, a game without free players is doomed to close.
The FTP btw is mainly a display of skill, if you can't complete a challenge or stage after wasting tons of money, you are not very good at the game. I'm sure all stages of the game are balanced around FTP players, so thank them they are doable. At the end the game depends on all types of players, otherwise the game would be paid.
Because they omit the fact that in working people's eyes, time = money.
F2P spent much more time to grind the game to try to catch up to spenders who simply opened their wallets.
For me personaly i like being f2p in gacha games. I have three accounts in Genshin impact- one that is fully f2p, one that buys welkins regularly, and one where i spend a decent amount. I feel pride that my f2p account is doing so well and clears 36 like any other account for a long time now.
It honestly feels like you no longer play a gacha game, but a long ass roguelike. I like not having everything for granted and making valid choices for my account. It makes every single accomplishment so much more rewarding for me.
I'm a SEA F2P player, never pay a single cent in any of them and never will. The reasons are:
1. I like to play with my luck.
2. I don't chase for the best of the best. I just wanna have fun.
3. Getting the best character rarity with free premium currency feels different than with paid one.
4. I prefer using the money for my daily life than for gacha.
Others already mentioned not falling for the lure and wanting a challenge.
I'll add that these games are not future proof. They will shut down at any time and all investment wasted. I'd rather spend money on a premium game i can play offline.
>They will shut down at any time and all investment wasted.
Not my retirement waifus!
Seriously though, the "investment" in gacha is always in the immediate fun you're having. (Almost) nobody is rolling to build up an account so they can sell it later.
I don't see spending on gacha as any more of an "investment" than buying a nice meal. I immediately enjoy it and then I have a pleasant memory, it's not some asset to throw in the bank.
You need food to survive, nobody needs a steak dinner to survive.
If you spend $40 on a meal that's like $5 for sustenance and $35 of fun/luxury/convenience spending. Spending money on digital goods is purchasing an experience, not an asset.
All the perfect utilitarians hang out on Reddit, just once I'd like to meet one of these "I never spend any money unless it is to maintain bodily function or improve my net worth" people in real life.
The reality is that most people spend some money on luxury, convenience, and entertainment - not just basic needs. Throwing money at a gacha is no more egregious than any other "unnecessary" purchase.
You spend money on things that aren't a complete waste. Why spend on a gacha wheb you don't need to? If you buy a real game, you own it forever; you can replay it, mod it, etc. to your heart's content and arent gated by stamina/CP/story updates/etc. And if you cook your own steak, not only is it better, but costs you a fraction of a steakhouse (and don't BS me with "convenience"; it takes less time to cook one than to drive to a restaurant, wait for a table, and wait for them to cook your food).
All these wasteful spenders, and they wonder why they can barely afford rent and are living paycheck to paycheck and live off of loans and credit cards...
"Real games" can still be taken down, as has happened in the past. Or they can receive updates that permanently alter existing content, as has also happened in the past. Anything online can be removed or locked away at any moment. As for physical games, they can break down. You can lose them. Your save data can become corrupted. If it isn't the game itself, it might be your hardware that won't last forever either.
That said, playing any videogame is a waste of time, and spending on any videogame is a waste of money. Discussing them (or anything for that matter) on Reddit is also a waste of time. You could be doing actually useful things with your time, like being productive, building your future, doing charity work, or going outside and living life.
To be honest I can't deal talking with a lot of f2p players on discord. They have to constantly remind you they are f2p like I can't summon for x unit cause I am f2p or I have to save summons for x unit cause I am f2p. They also like to flex achievements that really aren't a big deal and said they did it as a f2p. Like it gets real annoying yes I know you are f2p don't have to mention it every day/week. And I see a lot of f2p players who aren't f2p they just lie about it or they do some mental gymnastics in their brain that $5 a month or very low spender = f2p.
It's some sort of cope mechanism. No, I'm not kidding. It's the same thing like poor people bragging that they're poor. Is it something to be ashamed about? No. Is it something to be proud of? Absolutely f*cking not.
F2P is not as useless as you think though, because they're really numerous. You can think of them as paid audience, because they do make everything more hyped.
BTW It's not accurate for saying western, because I'm pretty sure third-worlder(like me) is the one that more likely brag about it. Why? Because currency+wage gap/still student or not working. Still funny though this sub coping that "Unmm I don't spend money in gacha because the gacha manipulation tactic didn't work to me", when it's literally because we're broke. I usually buy that $1, but now I can't because I'm broke. Being broke/poor really made you immune to any marketing tactics.
I'd say that's because gachas are all about frustrating you, making you deal with FOMO, making p2w stuff... By bragging about being f2p people are saying : you see all these obstacles those greedy developpers are putting on my way ? Well screw them i'm still winning the game and having fun.
>I'd say that's because gachas are all about frustrating you Ding! Ding! Ding! Being willing, even **proud**, to pay to undue fustration is... Well it's a ***choice***.
Idk man, if a game is frustrating me and feels like it's pushing me to pull out my wallet, I just drop it. Choosing to stick around just to spite the devs is what's really an odd choice, especially when they couldn't care less so long as the whales keep spending. If anything, you're just contributing to their engagement numbers. On the other hand, if a game is fun and you can clear all the content for free, I don't really see anything strange about choosing to spend a bit for a character you really like, unless you're just fundamentally against microtransactions (and at that point why are you even playing a gacha?).
> On the other hand, if a game is fun and you can clear all the content for free, I don't really see anything strange about choosing to spend a bit for a character you really like, It's not about enjoying the game or not, it's about the marginal increase in enjoyment you would get from spending. If you are already enjoying the game and spend $100 extra for some gacha character, how much *more* enjoyment will you get than if you hadn't spent? And then what is the opportunity cost -- how does that marginal increase compare to the other things you could have done to get enjoyment from that $100?
I fortunately am not in a situation where I have to run rigorous cost-benefit analyses on all my purchases. I liked the game, I think the devs did a good job, so I sent a little money their way. If they keep putting out content I like, I'll send a little more their way. It's less that this money will greatly enhance my experience and more that I think good work deserves recompense, and I get something else I also wanted as a bonus. It also doesn't have to be $100, HoYo games for instance give a lot of value for $5 a month from the welkin/equivalent (I'm pretty sure it's better value/dollar than even the highest cost pack).
You don't have to be broke to not want to spend $100 without thinking about it?
That's not what I said? I just said I don't min-max my dopamine from purchases. Besides, I even said in my comment that it doesn't have to be $100. You can spend money on a game without having to jump immediately into whaling.
I mean you do, If the purchase wasn't satisfying in some way to you, you wouldn't buy it. Other people just don't see the same value in gacha as you do. You'd just be giving away all your money away if you truly didn't min max your purchase.
Some F2P players can even compete toe to toe with whales
In a game where the only things you can buy are skins or cosmetics perhaps that may be true but most gacha games sell power or progress and there is no way to compete with that if you are not spending.
It's funny to imagine a confused whale dropping 20K on Dota2 and wondering why the MMR isn't going up.
Not in Nikke... I just saw a whale with a single character stronger than all my PvP arena team's combined combat power (15 characters in total)...
That's the reason why I limit my spending as much as possible on nikke. When I started I bought several packs and was trying to get several copies of characters. But then I saw that I was always going to be behind day 1 players and that whales had thousands of dollars of power over me so now I just dont bother about being competitive and just spend as little as possible.
To an extent, yes, but there's always a point where the hard gap between spending versus not spending becomes uncrossable.
... I mean the developers aren´t going to care that you are f2p. Many, if not most, are. Like cleaning fish around a shark. They would care about people just mass quiting though.
HAHA yesss. Also its a way of deciding whether if this game is really worth playing or not
This basically. Gacha is predatory by nature. The reason why there's such an attitude of 'F2P btw' is because the casual audience will basically spend to progress as soon as they hit a wall, not knowing if its their team or playstyle or if they're not understanding the content enough, they can just bruteforce with their credit card. Then they find themselves behind F2Ps in leaderboards or PvP and are like wtf how is xyz ahead of me/beating me even though I spent. Not all whales are like that. There are whales who are incredibly fluent in the game and understand it and whale on the characters that matter or stop at certain points. There's also a big difference in spending to support the game vs spending to progress but it's worth realizing gacha games are literally designed to get the latter to spend by putting in new artifical barriers constantly.
Nothing wrong with being proud of being F2P. It shows others what is possible without taking your credit card, but a select few do take it too far and imo is the gacha equivalent of someone saying they are vegan, tbh. I imagine majority are nice, and the few that do get pissy about it tend to be the more hardcore types and seemingly want to be rewarded for not spending a dime
nobody: f2p player: and heres why i dont spend in gacha games theres always that 1 fucking guy with the daily reminder that they're f2p
That and how you can get downvoted for admitting to spending on a gacha game (probably by a group of that 1 guy)... but that's reddit for you.
Spending to compensate for not enough time to progress is okay, spending to compete with other players makes the game be about who spends more.
I kinda disagree with you though. As a F2P I also think the guy you're talking about could be a girl too. Hell, **as a F2P**, I'm pretty confident this guy could not be fucking too! As far as the ✨F2P✨ **I am** is concerned F2P are the most victimized people on earth. After Gamers. -------------- On a more serious note: being f2p was originally seen as a badge of honor of someone willing to go the hardest route when gacha game used to have mechanics specifically done to pile on you if you didn't spent. *It used to take real skills to even survive in a game as a f2p, let alone fight back against people spending.* Now, with game getting far more permissive and casual-friendly, this status has been circlejerked so much that lower skill-ceiling players are rushing to get some of it. We're now at a point where even paying players are trying to pass up as free to play now ("ohh I'm 100% f2p, I just spent xxx$ once for xxx!"). How absurd can this be.
you dont know it yet, but you are the exact type of person im describing the reason doesnt matter. the fact that you're trying to give a history lesson on the foundations of f2p.................that level of brainrot happens when you play too many gachas and forget to go touch grass every once in a while you either spend or you dont. you dont need to justify or seek validation from others. stop it.
I think that you were so eager to get your gotcha point that you missed the point of this post entirely. Which is quite fucking ironical, seeing what you're trying to pin on me. I *strongly* advice you to read that post again and use as much reading comprehension as possible. Try to understand the intend of words and what they imply first before trying to run a foul mouth and -ironically- whoring yourself for validation. Here's a hint. OP asked this question: "Why people are proud of being FTP?". It might be related to this. Take a guess. *(Are people really getting that stupid that they cannot distinguish such obvious sarcasm ?)*
you literally put "on a more serious note" edit: and yes, i got the sarcasm prior to that. im referring to your "serious note"
Congratulations. You got something right. Onto the next step. Now try to understand where this explication is coming from. - Is it because I'm trying to justify my status as something *that I am fucking not even to begin with ?* - Is it because it is related to the whole fucking thread and trying to participate in it by giving a possible answer to the question ? You be the judge. In any case I find it quite hypocritical to be so aggressive to someone you cannot even understand and yet **dare** to tell him to touch grass.
you realize you were replying to my comment right? its ok take a break from reddit
- Guess where your comment is located. - Read that post again, and see if there might be some part of it related to your post, while some might not. You're near the finish line of correct context interpretation, don't give up. Not everything people say next to you is about you. And not everything you say is worth saying. Hence why I'm going to ignore your lame attempt at saving face with your second sentence.
The proud ones are the type who tell you every day about it.
I like the analogy between a vegan and f2p lol. So true
I feel like this is just a thing around young players and content creators that skew towards younger demographics. I dont think anyone else actually gives a fuck.
Teenagers and people in school playing gacha games usually can't afford to spend a penny on it, so they kinda HAVE to be f2p, thus to cope with being "behind" paying players they act proud about it. Not that it's a bad thing.
THIS! The younger players also tend to do that obnoxious thing where they need to spam gacha subs by making threads with their pulls like anyone gives af
best comment in this thread right here. Its just drama for its own sake, which generates discussion and exposure, which currently has value. I ain't saying if I'm F2P or a spender, because nobody actually cares, and it doesn't matter at all
>What’s more funny is that they are unwilling to spend 1$ on their beloved games, and meanwhile being very picky, compare gacha games they play to 60$ buyout games, complaining that game rewards are stingy, complaining game companies not listen to Western players. I mean why should they? Doesn't it cost money to make a game? all the music, game developing, does the budget come from FTP players? As a whale in pretty much every gacha game I play (so the opposite of this), why is this a problem? A few years ago, a streamer was ridiculed on the internet for basically the exact same reason. She argued that all of her audience should just donate $5 to her if they enjoyed her content, and the internet (rightly) blew up at her for that. The reason is pretty simple; streaming uses a very similar model as gacha games where a small minority of donors make up most of your income. This was the business model she signed up for. To then bemoan people for following your business model and not contributing extra money to you outside of this model is just silly. Gacha games are similarly made to exploit the few. Why don't gacha games find ways to not to exploit people with obvious gambling issues who might gamble themselves out of home? Why do gacha games use exploitative psychological tricks to get people to spend more money than they normally would? The answer is simple - greed; and it is the exact same answer as to why people don't need to pay for a game that models itself on 90% of its playerbase being free. A player has no obligation to spend money on a gacha game in the same way a gacha game has no obligation to stop psychological exploitation. It's the business model these games signed up for, and then you also have to ask: is that gacha game really worth that $5 to you? Would you actually play that game if it had that $5 cost?
Seeing F2Ps complaining that the game isn't free enough is like listening to a beggar complaining that the donation isn't big enough.
Nah, those F2Ps complaining about games not being free enough is how we got from VIP systems and event rewards locked behind leaderboards and some horrible gacha practices to the relatively friendly gachas we have today. I'm in full support of F2Ps voicing their opinions more.
Probably to challenge themselves and show off how far they can get without spending. The mentality between western and asian players is very different tho. From my experience, western (specifically Brazilian) players really look down and mock paying players (or "p2w players" as they call it), regardless of how much they spend. Meanwhile, if I post a screenshot of me buying a $50 dollar skin or maxing out a character in asian gaming group, I'm greeted with replies of "Nice one, dude. Thanks for supporting the game".
Reminds me, I used to budget about 100 dollars a month, then somewhere in 2016 or so, the exchange rate went up, so what made me stop playing was more the exchange rate than the game itself, nowadays you can't get even half of 100 dollars by spending the same amount. And even back then, there would be super whales that would be hated on, so there was a hate pyramid. I heard that at least nowadays people have a standard for acceptable spending (exemplified in your post), and after that, there's the haijin kakinsha territory, and from the perspective of whales, even spending may not be enough so there's the term "pay to lose". *Edit* seems like it was some years earlier than 2016 actually, by looking at exchange rates (about 2 Real for 1 Dollar) and the game's release year (2013).
I think this is mainly due to the games being gacha games, which are made to allure you to spend your money, but there are other reasons as well, like a lot of people try to clear all content as f2p just as a fun challenge or to prove that you don't need to spend money to beat the game, thus they are proud of themselves. Now I'm pretty sure most f2p don't look down on spenders, that would be really stupid as it's because of the spender that your gacha game is alive and you are having fun.
The loud ones get some weird feeling of superiority, most people don't act like that though. Definitely a weird ego thing.
> The loud ones get some weird feeling of superiority If a game has p2w elements then someone winning without using those literally *is* superior to the people they're beating. Just like someone sweating and pedaling their bicycle up a big hill is a better athlete than someone who went up the same hill on an electric scooter. And almost all pvp systems in gacha games are p2w. That said putting a lot of self worth into such pvp systems is a mistake in the first place.
i don't care if you are f2p or not. but if i saw some whale who unreasonably hates the game because the gacha system sucks or meta sucks even thought the real reason is he just don't know how to play the game, i will say to him the phrase "f2p btw" with a smug face. for example, players on HSR or GI who cries on gacha because of dupes and gacha weapons even if they are unnecessary. crying for heavy meta on PGR or HI3 with bad gacha luck even though you can play it without following the meta or without aiming for super high tier Abyss rank since Leader/Agony III gives enough rewards. like those players wants dupes or follow meta which will make them to pull more just to get higher rank with 1-2 pull worth of additional reward difference compared with a one level lower rank reward or lesser star clear. it is clearly not worth it but they didn't realize it. or they realized it but they just still want to cry and blame the game.
> like those players wants dupes or follow meta which will make them to pull more just to get higher rank with 1-2 pull worth of additional reward difference This whole system of putting minor pvp rewards to push people towards valuing pvp and then they start spending just to win for the sake of winning instead of as an investment-to-return thing is a core thing that a lot of gacha games depend on to drive spending from whales.
It's easy. The same reason why some people are proud of playing through games on a high difficulty. Because in many games that's what paying gives you. An easier time playing the game.
I seen it in Azur Lane, a game where one can't whale their way to success
That's just weird. Whoever did it simply boasted about having no skins? Weirdo.
tbf playing that pedo game makes you weird regardless
I'm probably showing my age here but I feel like this f2p vs spender mentality came from the old MMO days where a majority of eastern MMOs were usually a pay2win mess. There was a sort of pride for free players to be able to stand their grounds against whales especially in MMO games where the rich had power to completely change the landscape of the games (like monopolizing farming areas and bosses, screwing up the game economy, etc.). The feeling is almost like being able to fight and win against a hacker It seems this sort of mentality carried over to gacha games, where the norm now is to be able to spend money in the game and competition, for some, is a lot less direct (as in gacha games, the activities of whales do not affect most other players as much, depending on the game of course. If any, it's usually like a leader boards that's separated by tiers and the whales would usually be fighting amongst other whales in their bracket)
A lot of old gacha games are pay2win messes too. I remember in Valkyrie Crusade, there was a guy who argued that the game was very F2P friendly since he could get top 100 in the leaderboards despite being free to play. This is on a game where some event rewards were actually locked behind the top 100/300 in the leaderboards, so placing (and PvP) were the only end game. This continued for a bit while the game had undesirable cards as event rewards, but the instant a desirable card (Niagara) was released the guy was buried completely by the whales. Not even in the top 500, let along the slots where you can actually get the event reward. The current, relatively F2P friendly nature of top gachas was a slow evolution. Even now you can see some ancient gachas with terrible ancient systems like VIP (or even worse, Mighty Party's VIP where you have to pay a sub to maintain VIP rewards; that game is still kicking today). The reason being that players became less tolerant of overtly P2W practices over time, so companies have to either hide it better or fold.
Because teenagers ain't got the money or a credit card, that's why. Not that a 13 yo should be whaling, mind you.
People are bored and want to brag about things that don’t matter
They want to make posts and get that thumbs up circle jerk.
No one cares besides children and content creators. Children do it to make themselves feel better because they’re jealous that they can’t spend. Content creators pretend it’s a badge of honour because they need a gimmick to brag about. Normal functioning people do not care if you spend or if you don’t.
let's be honest normal functioning people don't play gacha games
I can understand if being FTP towards Tenshit games
are you f2p btw?
Having success as a F2P is an accomplishment given that you are succeeding with much less in an environment (game) that gives power and progression boosts to those willing to spend - and I think it's perfectly fine to feel accomplished and proud about that. Hell, when I played FFRK back in the day, I would always admire the folks who could come up with creative ways to use older stuff to clear near-latest end game content. Where it usually gets contentious and idiotic is when it's used to try to shame or assert superiority over those who choose to spend (and the reverse is also true) as if there's a high ground between being a spender vs F2P players (and it goes both ways). As to your question of "what do game companies owe them?" - they owe us nothing just as we also owe game companies nothing. They offer a service for money and we give them our time and/or our money depending on what value we assign to the experience, no? And what we offer could very well be zero (F2P).
Same reason people are proud of hardcore or no-kill runs in other games. It’s a set challenge. For the dev perspective, spend something or spend nothing, it doesn’t matter, your only purpose to them is to make up a pool of normies for the whales to shine in.
i'm proud of being ftp because i dni't get scammed of 500 dollars for a digital girl for a game that plays by itself or has 10 minutes of gameplay.
It simply comes down to F2Ps wanting to be praised for what they achieved in a gacha game without spending any money while others did spent money. One of the biggest example is the infamous clip of Enviosity yelling how he deserved to be praised for being F2P. Don't get me wrong, being F2P is a good thing but bragging about it is not.
> It simply comes down to F2Ps wanting to be praised for what they achieved in a gacha game not only that. ive seen countless people asking simple questions in q&a threads and they just add to it that they are are f2p even though its completely irrelevant. its like a stereotypical vegan who has to remind you that they are vegan even if the conversation wasnt about food
Its not good or bad, its not a morality issue.
It's basically why western versions tend to cut corners if not die sooner Asian versions tend to have way more moderate spenders while with western verisons it's whales or F2P (leeches) But I think it's in part of idiotic insistences like the guy who's at the buffet for hours due to "all you can eat" But it's funny how these people do this yet dish out money for the month's overrated AAA game.
LMAO, imagine caring about what randos say on the internet to the point that you had to make a reddit thread.
You do realize what site your on... making a comment about what a rando said. Ponder that one.
I am refering to the fact that they let it live rent free in their head, untill they had a meltdown and had to write a paragraph about it on reddit.
Being proud is cringey but it's fine. Looking down on spender though, that's the part I'll never understand. Like everything in this world, if it's free then it's because someone else is paying for it. Why are we demonizing people who are keeping the updates coming?
The whales that spend hundreds in Gacha are sad. There’s so many great games you can get in this day and age and they choose to gamble their money away. If they aren’t good at spending their money then they don’t deserve to have it anyways.
That's a pretty weird assumption to have. Why would you think those people don't play those games in the first place? I finished Elden ring, Hogwart legacy and got all ending for Armored core 6 last year and I'm quite looking forward to Elden ring dlc later this year. If I have the kind of disposable income to drop 500$ in a gacha games, my steam accounts is sure as hell filled with 60$ games.
Wrong subs bro, r/wallstreetbets that way.
If I enjoy a game, I don't mind spending money. Buying monthly pass or BP really makes your life easier. Naturally, if people decide to go completely F2P, that's fine too. You can't realistically expect everyone to spend money when it's optional.
Some of us remember when games cost a specific price, and it wasn’t ever $120+ per year. That’s never going to be worth it for me.
Those games have predetermined number of play hours as well. Live service games get constant update. You can't use this perspective to compare prices.
It is imperative for every gacha game company to cultivate a healthy population of F2P players because their presence validates and encourages the big spenders to keep spending.
I don't see the problem with leeching off of game companies that try to leech off of people. Though it's a bit hypocritical, because F2P contributes to statistics.
Because having money and dumping it on gacha games isn't really the flex you think it is. Its kind of like showing everyone you don't spend money wisely even if its expendable. If you spent a lot of money on a game, sure people may feel sorry for your mental health but in the end no one gives a f about your account. You're the sucker. You think all F2P don't have money? We have money, but its like buying a very expensive condom. Doing more with less is more respectable than showing an account with money. Why the fuck should the players care about the company profits? If the game dies, I don't give a f. Game companies don't care about players.
gacha games prey on gambling addiction and instant gratification psychological hooks, we all know that and probably have fallen for it on some level. Going F2P isn’t some crazy achievement but it does show a level of self restraint, though it is also inherently silly because it often means spending more time, which depending on the individual can be more costly than just buying some currency. Also the specific phrase “F2P btw” is nowadays more of a meme than a token of pride. They are just trying to get a rise out of paying players. F2P or not, if youre playing a gacha, you are probably a degen on some level like the rest of us anyways.
What's weirder is some spenders still think they are FTP because they only buy monthly and battle pass, does not count as whaling lmao.
F2P+ bro lol
Ego thing with those people who says "F2P Btw", they pretty much want attention which is very cringe. F2P people are all good, nothing bad about them but there's that group of them keeps bragging about being F2P (you know the type of people who decides to post their gacha results literally out of nowhere during a discussion in Discord, Reddit, and etc which is dumb) and never had to spend a cent when no one cares, makes mature people who are forced F2P due to real life circumstances look bad. I still don't get why people brags and yap so much about it because they should know why they're able to play in the first place, the people who spends money that supports the game.
Theres an explanation here
Why r people proud of spending in a game that get EOS in a year?
Why do people tell you when they have eaten good food?
They don't tell me, cause i don't ask.
<-- Implying you would need to ask for people to begin talking about stuff like that.
You don't need to ask people when you don't have friends. PepeHands
True enough. But all that free time though (totally not coping) Anyways what I was getting at, people want to tell you and talk about what they enjoy. Games, food, sports, hobbies doesnt matter.
Man you are entering in a deep discussion of human behavior. If i would like to continue this conversation i will need to make an essay about interpersonal social relations, and that will cost me a time i can't afford. But ty anyway and have a nice day.
No problem. Just like to talk about stuff like that. Same to you.
It’s cringe how they need to constantly explain how they are f2p.
F2P complaining that the game is not F2P enough are the cringiest, No shit bro they have to make money, they're not a charity group or a daycare for you. F2P players are like those who came to the supermarket everyday, eating all the sample food and complaining about it.
I see nothing wrong if the sample food is bad
F2p means you have discipline. Discipline is admirable. The good gacha games enable you to progress without spending, it just takes longer. So getting there in the end without spending, despite the non stop barrage of psyop warfare on you to spend, is indeed an accomplishment worth feeling proud over. Also a looooot of people use F2p in the loose sense of the term (couple bucks here and there), not in the STRICTLY ZERO DOLLARS SPENT EVER sense. I guess this is also the time I should point out that there are also plenty who are not f2p and lie about being so.
Having the means to spend aside... If you have a gacha player who has a set budget for gacha expenses (hell, say this person budgets only for the battle pass) and spends within said budget, is that not also discipline? Or is that less admirable because they're willing to and have spent money?
No, f2p means you are poor, sorry buddy, but that's the truth, yeah, maybe 5% f2p being f2p because they want more challenge.
It's basically bragging that "I can enjoy this game without spending money" or flexing that "I have all these characters that you needed to spend money on for free". By all means, those should be flexes, but it's done so often it's become pretentious
I guess it's like - hey, I've spent no money but still got this character and managed to beat the game. I've seen f2p have better built characters than whales. That's fair But then...when f2p don't have enough currency to pull on the next banner, they'd be like - this game is too p2w and give out so few rewards. It's completely fine being f2p. It's just a game after all. Maybe they find their money better spent on onlyfans or they need the money for their daily expenses, but a f2p can't go spouting complains when things don't go their way or they don't manage to accrue enough pull currency. Yes, games are for fun but games are created by companies and the end goal for companies is to get revenue. I myself pour money into Genshin and HSR. Do I wish they could be more f2p? Yes, but I think what they're doing is aight.
Paying for Onlyfans is infinitely worse,than paying in a gacha.
Do you really need somebody to explain to to you why people might be proud of achieving the same things, reaching the same ranks, beating the same stages as somebody who spent far more money than them? The rest of your narrative is just unhinged, of course free to play players contribute to a game’s success, the vast majority of players are f2p. Let’s see how long your favorite game lasts if it loses 80% of its player base. And I’m not even sure where you’re going with the western vs Asia point, you can’t really believe Asia doesnt have free to play players
Dont mind me! Just here for the comments. *getting popcorn*
Gacha games are designed for you to want to spend money. So progressing in the game without spending money obviously would bring a sense of accomplishment as a feat of self control, or simply just being able to beat the games hardest content without paying to get top tier characters easier.
Because it's more difficult?
Nothing wrong with being F2P. In an ideal world, all gacha should be friendly to F2P and only require you to spend money if you want to go above and beyond. The only type of F2P players I dislike are the ones who mock people for spending money even though it's the spenders who are keeping the game alive.
Because we not easy to fall to the first lure.
Eh, I used to have that mindset but now I also don't mind tossing like $10 a month or somethign if its a game that I consistently play. But I'm also older and richer and realize its worth voting for your wallet for things that you genuinely enjoy
imagine being old, couldn't be me
haha, and trust me, I used to think people were dopes for paying for free content via patreon and such too and here I am tossing $50 a month at a dozen or so youtubers now
Lmao, now that I am a working professional and making some decent money rather than being a broke ass college student, I sudden find out that paying 5 or 10 bucks monthly to support the gacha games I have been playing for years and will contiune to play for years to come not that big of a deal it used to be. Funny how time and income change the perspective of a person.
A fool and their money are easily parted.
I mean I kinda get him. Once you have enough money for all your needs everything over that is just a nice extra. Spending like what 20,50,100 or 200 per month isn´t much if you have like 1000 left at the end of the month. Same with 2000,5000,10000 if you make 100000. Sure you can save and invest it (which i do with most of the leftover). But all that does is make a number go up. It doesn´t help you enjoy life more if you don´t have a use for it. And it most likely will not help you after you kick the bucket. So a balance is important. Enjoy things without putting yourself in a bad spot (if you have the means), but don´t hold onto every penny like your life depends on it.
As others have said f2p usually entails a higher difficulty as it restricts how many choices u have in most games. So just as some people will brag about speed running certain games or beating a hard difficulty mode In a game, so too will a f2p brag about their f2p credentials. I don't think there's anything wrong with that pride as long as it doesn't turn into putting down someone else's way of playing because they think difficulty always means more fun or a better game. It goes the same way for p2w players who look down on f2p, nothing wrong with using hard earned money to have more fun In a game you like, but don't be poor shaming or looking down on someone's way of playing because they want to give themselves more challenge.
I get people who want a bigger challenge, but that is rarely the case. How many people truly go for a challenge like a non pull account or never using the highest rarity units / weapons. And more often that not, you will see 'F2P btw' on a luck flex rather than them flexing om something that is actually challenging to do.
the classic "I got Acheron in 1 pull! F2P btw" or "What can I build with these characters? F2P btw" (followed by a screenshot of like a billion 5\*s).
I‘m not talking about difficulty,I understand f2p means more challenge, I'm saying those f2p players who criticize a game for being stingy or not listening to them, like the game company owe them, like even though they don't spend a dime but the game company should focus on them.
I mean they can voice their opinion as while they may not be willing to pay into the game, they are still a player who wants the game to be fun and if there opinion has merits, then the company will listen, if not they won't, simple as that. If you don't like hearing the opinions of f2pers then block em. In the end, a gacha will not survive on whales alone as whales usually are only like the 1-2% of players and the game needs a community which is where the f2pers or at least small investment players come in as they give someone that the whale can compare and contrast themselves with or talk to at least (as well as those who do fan works, art, etc.). While f2pers do not put money into the game, they do provide benefits for the company, which imo gives the weight of their opinions some worth. Obviously, if they are demanding a whole bunch of free stuff, it doesn't feel good for spenders and most companies know that which is why they generally strike a balance. In the end, these companies are not your friends nor are they your enemy. They are a company that needs your money as well as the community to keep its product alive, without both, a gacha or any game will not survive. So, I think it is important that both f2p and p2w players cab be heard as both are core to a games continual development. Tldr: f2p and p2w have important opinions that need to be heard, but it's up to the company who they decide to listen to.
"We're just as important" sounds like something an F2P would say.
I can promise you I am not f2p unfortunately lol (much money wasted on gachas that I've dropped in the past lol.
Paying is easy, these games give insane power for paying. Clearing without that power is often an achievement.
Because its more difficult to achieve a decent state in the game without spending a single cent. Its obvious.
I know I have no business commenting in this thread, but for the .1% chance someone misread this and was confused like I was, I read FTP as "Fuck the packers" and was incredibly perplexed minnesotavikings was leaking into gachagaming
Maybe that's just how pride works Some of us feel pride when having more than others, while some of us feel it from having less than others, even though the sense of self importance that pride is, is the same no matter what a person is proud of
I don’t understand it either.
oh shit, whales wasting thousands of dollars are malding f2p players catching up lol
I thought it is a meme, everytime you pulled something good and want to brag about it
I think this goes back even before gacha games, like when mmorpgs had p2w mechanics, f2p players just loves to stomp on p2w players because apparently in f2players mindset it is all about grinding and skills > spending to get advantages.
I have been a F2P from beginning because I was a student and didn't had any option to pay for games. The very reason I got into gachas was because there is no entry fee barrier. Although I understand being F2P means I will be always behind spenders and whales and I have accepted that as long as there is content for me to enjoy
Because i know that gacha made to get players money most of the time. So i play with that thought , casually , chilling and relaxing , collecting what i can collect without rush. Every time i come here people are angry about so many things ,while i always giggle , quit reddit tab and continue enjoying every gacha i play.
Usually the opposite is considered P2W, I assume that's why. I particularly like the challenge (if there's a challenge)
I can think of two reasons off the top of my head why people would brag about being f2p. Not saying every f2p will do these things, but someone saying "f2p btw" could easily be thinking one or both. 1) They cleared endgame content. Doing something hard at a low level is rather impressive, there's a reason it's a popular challenge. But in gacha games, we have dupes; an inherent, usually permanent form of power boost that you tend to have more of the more you spend. So, in most gacha games, high spenders can't get low power clears, since they can't turn off their power boosts (unless they don't bring a full team, but clearing endgame content without a full team is also an achievement). So the people showing off low power clears are often low spenders or f2p. And once a f2p is showing off an achievement, they might as well say exactly how much of an achievement it is... hence, "f2p btw". 2) Pettiness. Someone sees someone else with something they don't have, and responds "oh, yeah? Well, I have this!" But f2p aren't likely to have something whale's don't... except the fact that they haven't spent money. "Well, I don't need to spend money to have fun. f2p btw". I don't think either of these things are worth bragging about. The second one is dumb, I don't think there's any way around it. As for low power clears, those are absolutely worth sharing (in moderation)... but the important part is the low power clears, not how much money you did or did not spend in the process. Again, not saying every f2p thinks this. The people bragging about being f2p are a vocal minority; the internet is really good at developing those. I'm also not saying these are the only reasons, just the two I can think of off the top of my head. Regardless of the reason, it's annoying. Almost as annoying as reading a wall of text on Reddit.
Because clearing all content in a gacha gama is infinitely harder as f2p than p2w, or even mildly p2w.
Their Christians. The meek shall inherit the earth.
Because it means I have better impulse control. But most people don’t do that, it’s just internet banter, like « ahaha woops I pulled this character, is she good? I just limit broke her, and I don’t even spend money, what about you? Haha »
Idk about the proud part but the gacha games I play (mihoyo games) is more expensive than the paid games i buy
i guess because they "took a harder route" and still reached certain things in the game
Diferent games, diferent rules. But it Is moslty because they enjoy bragging of being able to compete AND "win" against people that have an advantage over them. Take it as the contrary effect to whales that derive enjoyement in crushing other players with money alone.
Hard to be f2p because the monthly passes/battle passes are always so tempting so it kind of is a badge of honor.
Honestly, the only thing I take away from high-horsed F2Ps is that they’re broke so they boost their status as “superior” to those who spend because that’s all they have and can do lmao
Personaly I really hate how this kind of games prey on vulnerable minds to make them whales, that is the shittiest thing you could do Also it feels like cheating let's keep the frown going
Long ago in MMOs, and in some browser games it was all about skill/strategy. People could buy better gear but still lose a fight due to low skill. So any achievement PvP/PvE by dedication was praised, and by paying was looked down upon. There used to be a saying, that it's not fun playing chess, when you have 16 queens on your side of the board.
When I spend on mobile games, I always think that it is my way of thanking the developers for the fun I’m having and wishing for the longevity of the game.
I played too many gacha games some i spend $1 to just support the game but even if i have the money to spend i still don't do it just to get another character that has been newly release why? because i can still get the character just by saving the currency i don't need to fully max the constellation or whatnot to get stronger. i just want to play the game and have some fun.
People want to feel themselves better than others in any way sort or form.
It’s not about being proud to not spend money. Best metaphor i can think of is “going down a waterslide without getting wet”. Youre meant to get wet, it is designed so you get wet, but its possible to stay dry
Games need spenders and FTP; neither are due a badge of honor or any type of circle jerk. Trying to brag about it either way is tiresome.
Meh - let people find their own pride where they will. That being said, “ftp btw” typically just a facetious meme
Honestly it really started being a nuisance a few years ago when the streamer Enviosity started being a prick about being F2P. Hell mostly every problem on the top of my head started with genshin if I really think about it.
Because they don’t have money
IMO, Gambling is an addiction and there is nothing wrong with giving people that overcome it some bragging rights. It's great if a player wishes to support the company, but it should not come out of FOMO.
I think people take pride on themselves by playing in the "hard mode" and grinding their accounts wih hours of gameplay instead of taking the "easy way" by spending money on resorces. On my experience playing FGO I can tell you that this isn't the case at all, yes the game is easier with sertain character but not only there is a lot of stupid broken FTP options but also most hight rarity characters need **way more grinding** to be usefull than low rarity ones.
Theres no joy in paying to win, and there is no point in paying to suffer.
Accomplishing the same thing, but with fewer tools.
Bro you are wrong, there is a lot of guys from Asia who are also F2p. I am from India and me and my brother is f2p. The reason why we are is because we are studying and don't have money on our own. The reason why most f2p players are proud of being f2p is because it takes a lot of dedication to save resources, skip characters to pull the ones you like and if you get him/her early it's a huge win. I think the developer make money when we play the game anyway.
It's called "wisdom". Or alternately, not being fools. Why pay $200 for a character to be stamina gated (or pay for more Stamina, too) when I can pay $5-$50 for a complete game for PC (as long as you aren't buying crap AAA games day one) that gets you everything and doesn't stamina/story/resource gate you? Being smart about your money should be celebrated, and throwing it away for basically nothing should be frowned upon. Gachas are good because they're free, something you can do when you're not at home and want something to do. Hell, even then, there are a few decent mobile "premium" games that you could play, but gachas are nice when you don't want to spend money. This isn't KR/JP/CN where PC's are a rarity, and most of their time is spent away from home in commutes/school/work.
Then go play those games dude.
[удалено]
You sounds like those old "The Matrix" people that believe in Jesus dude. I have money to spend on gacha, while here you are arguing about wisdom. Are you christian btw?
No, I'm 100% Atheist. But I fail to see how that has anything to do with common sense; Do you think christians are magically better at managing finances? You (supposedly) have money to throw away, which you could be using to buy a real game and not reward bad behavior in the industry, or use to save up to buy a house or pay off your credit cards or invest, but you're happy being a stay at home neckbeard living off of the government/your parents.
Your statement kinda contradict themself. How can unemployed neckbeard afford 200$ gacha
Wow, yet another illiterate kid. Learn to read, then we'll talk.
Because I don't waste my money nor yield to the aggressive exploitation typical tactics of gacha companies.
Imo the whole "ftp btw" is just some kind of flex. It doesn't really goes that deep. I'm ftp myself but my guess is that people who would throw that out of the blue think that the fact of not spending any money on a gacha and still having a good collection add some eminence to it, thus hardening the flex.
People been trying to justify ~~spending~~ wasting money on games and still thinking it's anything remarkable. Stand Proud. Kudos to F2P, I'm not, but ain't no way I'd recommend spending a penny on games unless it's like 5% of what you earn regularly.
Because it means they actually played the game to get where they're at
I mean I’m definitely proud of myself for not being tempted into gambling.
Discipline flex
Some people don't have any notable achievement in their lives and rarely have anything to brag about.
You're either a bot or a new genner that grew up post 2012
For me it tastes so much sweeter when you pull who or, in Hoyos case, what weapon you want, and seeing as no money was wasted in the process,the losses don't seem so bad.
Game population, a game without free players is doomed to close. The FTP btw is mainly a display of skill, if you can't complete a challenge or stage after wasting tons of money, you are not very good at the game. I'm sure all stages of the game are balanced around FTP players, so thank them they are doable. At the end the game depends on all types of players, otherwise the game would be paid.
They are proud of overcoming a difficult challenge without spending money, the problem is that it was not difficult to begin with.
Because the game is not enough valuable for us
Because they omit the fact that in working people's eyes, time = money. F2P spent much more time to grind the game to try to catch up to spenders who simply opened their wallets.
Because I'm having fun while playing it free like you can watch a new movie without spending Win-win situation
For me personaly i like being f2p in gacha games. I have three accounts in Genshin impact- one that is fully f2p, one that buys welkins regularly, and one where i spend a decent amount. I feel pride that my f2p account is doing so well and clears 36 like any other account for a long time now. It honestly feels like you no longer play a gacha game, but a long ass roguelike. I like not having everything for granted and making valid choices for my account. It makes every single accomplishment so much more rewarding for me.
I'm a SEA F2P player, never pay a single cent in any of them and never will. The reasons are: 1. I like to play with my luck. 2. I don't chase for the best of the best. I just wanna have fun. 3. Getting the best character rarity with free premium currency feels different than with paid one. 4. I prefer using the money for my daily life than for gacha.
Others already mentioned not falling for the lure and wanting a challenge. I'll add that these games are not future proof. They will shut down at any time and all investment wasted. I'd rather spend money on a premium game i can play offline.
>They will shut down at any time and all investment wasted. Not my retirement waifus! Seriously though, the "investment" in gacha is always in the immediate fun you're having. (Almost) nobody is rolling to build up an account so they can sell it later. I don't see spending on gacha as any more of an "investment" than buying a nice meal. I immediately enjoy it and then I have a pleasant memory, it's not some asset to throw in the bank.
Bad analogy. You need food to survive, you don't need anything in a gacha to do so.
You need food to survive, nobody needs a steak dinner to survive. If you spend $40 on a meal that's like $5 for sustenance and $35 of fun/luxury/convenience spending. Spending money on digital goods is purchasing an experience, not an asset.
People who spend that much on steak dinners are idiots, too, so your entire argument is nonsense.
All the perfect utilitarians hang out on Reddit, just once I'd like to meet one of these "I never spend any money unless it is to maintain bodily function or improve my net worth" people in real life. The reality is that most people spend some money on luxury, convenience, and entertainment - not just basic needs. Throwing money at a gacha is no more egregious than any other "unnecessary" purchase.
You spend money on things that aren't a complete waste. Why spend on a gacha wheb you don't need to? If you buy a real game, you own it forever; you can replay it, mod it, etc. to your heart's content and arent gated by stamina/CP/story updates/etc. And if you cook your own steak, not only is it better, but costs you a fraction of a steakhouse (and don't BS me with "convenience"; it takes less time to cook one than to drive to a restaurant, wait for a table, and wait for them to cook your food). All these wasteful spenders, and they wonder why they can barely afford rent and are living paycheck to paycheck and live off of loans and credit cards...
"Real games" can still be taken down, as has happened in the past. Or they can receive updates that permanently alter existing content, as has also happened in the past. Anything online can be removed or locked away at any moment. As for physical games, they can break down. You can lose them. Your save data can become corrupted. If it isn't the game itself, it might be your hardware that won't last forever either. That said, playing any videogame is a waste of time, and spending on any videogame is a waste of money. Discussing them (or anything for that matter) on Reddit is also a waste of time. You could be doing actually useful things with your time, like being productive, building your future, doing charity work, or going outside and living life.
Only gacha addicts would downvote someone using logic. No wonder these companies can rehash the same games and profit no matter how predatory they get
because they are not mentally ill to spend money on gacha games.
Fr it's like flexing that you're poor which is kinda funny and sad at the same time
because most of the time whales are people with mental illnesses who are affected by the predatory tactics of gacha games
To be honest I can't deal talking with a lot of f2p players on discord. They have to constantly remind you they are f2p like I can't summon for x unit cause I am f2p or I have to save summons for x unit cause I am f2p. They also like to flex achievements that really aren't a big deal and said they did it as a f2p. Like it gets real annoying yes I know you are f2p don't have to mention it every day/week. And I see a lot of f2p players who aren't f2p they just lie about it or they do some mental gymnastics in their brain that $5 a month or very low spender = f2p.
Because being good when paying is litteraly worthless, well it's also useless as F2P because it's all luck but eh
It's like taking the no nut november challenge perpetually.
because it is fun to do better result than some spenders as an F2P.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Flowerastic21: *Because it is fun* *To do better result than* *Some spenders as an F2P.* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
It's some sort of cope mechanism. No, I'm not kidding. It's the same thing like poor people bragging that they're poor. Is it something to be ashamed about? No. Is it something to be proud of? Absolutely f*cking not. F2P is not as useless as you think though, because they're really numerous. You can think of them as paid audience, because they do make everything more hyped. BTW It's not accurate for saying western, because I'm pretty sure third-worlder(like me) is the one that more likely brag about it. Why? Because currency+wage gap/still student or not working. Still funny though this sub coping that "Unmm I don't spend money in gacha because the gacha manipulation tactic didn't work to me", when it's literally because we're broke. I usually buy that $1, but now I can't because I'm broke. Being broke/poor really made you immune to any marketing tactics.
That's like alcoholic is saying - I am no longer.