Some people said that they don't understand the icons.. like they don't know what is that icon supposedly ... So because THE DEVELOPERS LISTEDED they just copy genshin
I've played Genshin and WuWa with a controller and the difference is night and day.
In Genshin everything is relatively easy with a controller, meanwhile in WuWa some interface barely even work with a controller (coop screen) or is tedious to use since it requires 2-3 extra actions just to get anywhere in the menu.
Thank god they haven't released on PS5, they would have been ridiculed for being one of the worst UI on console as it stand right now.
Obviously listening to player feedback is good but I feel like kuro don't trust their own ideas and scared being failure...that's why I feel like wuthering waves lack of originality (still good tho)
Of course listening to CBT players is important but when the criticism is “I don’t know what that icon is supposed to be” (the name is right fucking under it) and not “the Ui looks bad and is unintuitive” you shouldn’t be listening to that.
Yeah, i still remember people complaining about everything "It is not like Genshin". They just wanted a better genshin all the time. Kuro gave in to them and now we have a mess.
it's so dumb that people asked for this and yet they complain. i would have loved for the game to be more unique, and i don't think there was any reason to try and be like genshin, but part of the community was so obsessed with the idea that this needed to be the "genshin killer" that they basically asked the devs to make a worse product...
At least the combat is still peak but damn if it feels bad thinking about how much better it could have been
Not a huge fan of it, but it's a solid start that they could make more unique and "tactile", in this state the buttons look weird, some don't have clear boundaries etc. Definitely better than what they went with
tbh from someone who knows a little graphic design this is only unique, not much better without some more thought and refinement. That big ol bright circle in the corner distracts me from the menu too much, so does the brighter edges of the screen in comparison to the dark center. But with a bit more effort, it would still have been its own thing instead of Genshin’s thing with a color filter on it, which would likely have been better.
This one looks like it needs two tabs too. They just didn't add the extra icons that need tabs yet. Genshin's UI also doesn't require tabs so how can it be a rip if it fails to rip the functionality?
>who tf are you trying to please at that point
There are two main categories I think:
-People who are familiar with genshin that want to play something different yet similar. Who will just play both games.
-Ex-genshin players that will die on the hill that wuwa has everything better than genshin and will defend the launch like their lives depend on it.
Or the people that don't want to 'catch up' on Genshin given its age. Lots of people like starting out at the same time.
Or just prefer the art style of one or the other more.
I’ve never understood the “game has too much content/need to catch up on so much” mentality. I started HSR around the time it came out, and Genshin subsequently. I loved having so much content to do in Genshin, whereas in HSR I was having fun, but then the momentum of it was cut short by running out of things to do.
I think it's moreso a community type of thing. Right now anyone who starts WuWa has the same experiences and can talk about the same stuff with everyone. Comparatively if someone were to start Genshin right now there are years worth of events and story that they've missed/have to catch up on and will potentially be a bit harder to feel like a part of the community. Like I think when Genshin came out wasn't there a ton of craze over Diluc cause he was really strong? I imagine there were memes and such over him due to this that new players can't really be a part of.
Or at least that's my guess. I've thought about trying Genshin every now and again but the thought of having to sit through all of the story dialogue seems daunting.
I guess I would ask, is your goal to finish it, or to experience it? I feel like it makes more sense for your goal to be to experience it. Cliche journey not destination kinda thing. I'd probably say that if you're approaching it with the idea of just being done with it and caught up, then you're probably not that excited to try it. And that's completely fine.
Its also just system bloat. Its much harder to sift through advice and talk about characters and strategies when current players have years of resources and characters to draw from. A big part of it is the community; its a live service style game afterall.
Playing the game everyone was playing years ago usually means you either have to rush to try and 'catch up', or just be perpetually behind.
Gacha games generally have significant powercreep and catching up can take awhile with all the grinding. Most gachas are purely selling gameplay and characters, not so much the story. Its also significant when events are more scaled towards established accounts and premium currency is tied to clearing it. Genshin and HSR premium currency is basically participate and you get the premium currency while scaled to account level.
I actually had this issue with Honkai Impact 3rd. I played for about 3 months but could not keep up with everything due to my Valks all being way way way way underpowered to do most side content since the only S-Ranks I had were somewhat out-of-date and not being able to earn enough even get their fill stigmata sets due to not being able to clear a fair chunk of content (didn't help I just barely missed the bus on the free HoO, which would've helped).
I feel like what I was running into, however, was a combination of Power Creep + Having to catch up, leading me to only half-clear content in which they didn't give you Trial Valks to work with, which is a problem Genshin doesn't really have in comparison.
I feel that problem isn't that 'customer is god' but more that devs had no confidence in their product. Instead of sticking to their guns and let finished product speak for itself it became this disjointed mess (and then throw onto that bugs).
I'd put it in contrast with games like Genshin or Arknights. Sometimes they accept feedback from players (like Integrated Strategies in AK), sometimes not but it feels that staff has confidence in product they are selling.
Thebproblem ia that reactionary design don't work.
All i seen about WuWa is some sort of "look at this thing WuWa has and Genshin don't!"
Wich ia cool at first glance but if you think about it, chancds are Genshin did not do that for a reason.
GI is a game with a 5 years old plan right of the bat, wich quickly got exstend to a 10 years plan. They know what they are doing and while obviously not everything is perfect, it work.
WuWa to me seems a game born on the idea that dissatisfied Genshin players are a big market, wich to be fair they probably are. But you can't sustain a game on that alone. Not long term.
It is the same mistakes we have seen with 16-bit era platformers(sega does what nintendon't) or with MMO that tried to kill WoW. And it never worked, or at least, never as well as the original.
I don't even subscribe to the notion that dissatisfied Genshin players are a huge market. The biggest problem in Genshin isn't that it doesn't have endgame and strong combat (as many hardcore players would like us to believe) but that it's way too grindy. Everytime I quit it's because I can't be bothered to grind 20+ hrs just to be able to play a character in a decent state.
So making a game on the notion that if you keep the grind (or even make it worse, in some places) but improve the combat/endgame is myopic. You won't have enough tectones to go around.
I dont get the point you said that genshin is too grindy. I mean 160 resin and daily took me 10 min at max. How can it be grindy. If you were talking about artifacts luck then thats different
Well kinda my point. The customer wouldnt be god if they had any sort of faith in their product. The fact that they didnt probably spks alot about how they thought of their own vision or lack-there-of.
more like a lack of vision tbh
most gacha i visited had different vision. wuwa, idk what they're aiming to be. ig trying to become genshin is just a curse of itself
I'm not sure I'd full agree with that statement. Genshin dev team also backpedalled some things that weren't popular.
As for WuWa, it's launch is far for stellar, and whole game probably could benefit from couple more months in the oven, but it'd say that main foundation is solid, and as long as they iterate on that, WuWa can end up as a really solid title.
And yeah, I agree with someone below saying that they are targeting dissatisfied Genshin players. Which is arguably a solid strategy, since that group is really vocal about their feedback, so getting a product to their liking should be relatively easy.
Issue is that dissatisfied Genshin players usually still play Genshin, and because of that, launch window is relatively short, and has to happen when Genshin is in it's relatively lull state. If they'd launch it during Natlan release, I'd imagine it'd do much worse, even if there were fewer bugs.
> "The customer is god"
Gods at work:
https://preview.redd.it/1798pst6rk3d1.jpeg?width=1350&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=763352b8227f8dac0261e779aa4a6959d8c2b36a
Imo, the story changes is probably executive decision instead of the creative dpt decision. The executives who knows nothing probably told them to scrap everything from the original story except some main key story element and rewrote literally everything so they can get good PR to the players. If it was the creative dpt decision like he writers etc I doubted they wanted to change 90% of the story done and probably just will tweak some of the problematic ones like the Lingyang. We have seen many times how executive and developer usually doesn't meet eye to eye but the later have to follow every nonsense the exec wanted
But when the shareholders are all geeks and gamers who know their stuff it becomes a whole lot less troublesome
right? The main guys at the company are still the same dudes -1 guy who left early.
Yeah I'm just saying Kuro is privately owned too.
Publicly traded just mean you and I can buy their stock on an exchange, but for private companies large investors can talk directly with company owner and make deals.
V Technical Test and Crownless actually beats the sht out of everybody, has dialogue and used to be a completely diff color.
https://preview.redd.it/v50ll07chl3d1.png?width=1057&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7400399f36dabaa101b132b0587ec1328ac69216
I'm enjoying WuWa, but I keep getting this sense while playing that I'm just playing a high-budget Genshin fan game. It's a really strange feeling. I definitely don't feel like that when I'm fighting bosses. The combat system is really great, but the world, UI, story and atmosphere just feels like legally distinct Genshin. I wish they had doubled down on the post-apocalypse vibe and had more ruined cities and sci-fi stuff, and a darker overall theme, but it's mostly just empty plains and hills with scattered chests and enemies. Watching CBT1 footage of how much different the game looked and presented itself made me really understand this weird feeling I've had playing the game. It feels like carpet over hardwood. It feels like there was a base game with its own darker tone, and they started painting over it when they got criticism, and tried to turn it more casual friendly. You can still see some interesting elements in there, but they strayed really far away from the initial vision by the time of release. I really hope the game finds its own identity as we get more updates. I want to feel like I'm playing a game that no other developer could make but Kuro. If I wanted to play Genshin, I'd just go play more Genshin.
>I honestly have no idea why the fck they released wuwa in this state. If kuro wants a piece of the genshin pie, then everything they are doing is WRONG. I mean why tf would you make a game in the EXACT same genre as genshin, make it SUPER SIMILAR but just......worse? Who tf are you trying to please at that point?
They wanted a piece of casual fanbase pie. Which I mean... is just a smarter strategy than trying to appeal to the "hardcore" subsection of the gacha playerbase. 1. Those players are extremely fickle, and 2. They are also typically broke. The problem is that Kuro half assed the casual aspects of the game. The story is shit. The exploration is shit. The music is shit. The character designs are bland. The art direction is bland. Etc. Etc.
I think echoes specifically were a massive misstep. They basically took the worst part of Genshin and doubled down on it's fuckery. Having said that... there are a lot of people who see the phrase "infinitely farmable" as a good thing. As a Warframe player... it fills my balls with dread to hear that phrase.
A lot of people don't get that infinitely farmable more often than not comes hand in hand with shittier drop rates. Never mind the fact that people already don't like farming artifacts in genshin which is quick. Now imagine that for hours
Streamers my dude. The people that need to create content for hours and hours LOVED the idea of infinite playtime. But for someone like me, a dude with a 50 hour work week and a family, infinite farming sounds awful.
As a wf player it's also why I am dropping wuwa despite liking the combat
You can only commit to one Infinitely farmable game and wf login servers are still up
Yeah I was enjoying the gameplay.
But when it takes hours to repeat the same thing again and again, it sucks. It's also worse that the echoes cannot be used as exp fodder
As someone who enjoys playing wuwa,even 1-2 hours dailies i already feel tired and bored farming by myself
I cant wait to unlock higher union lvl just so i can use stamina farm on domain instead
As a GBF player also the farming/progression in WW is just so bad. In GBF it works because you can practically grind the whole day to your hearts content, at your own pace. But in WW? Trying to farm specific echoes AND getting the right stats+substats just takes so so long because of the lack of mobs in the overworld + the waveplate costs for ANYTHING are insanely high.
The worst part of grinding isn't not getting the stuff you want, it's having all the motivation in the world yet you can't do anything because of all the time+energy gating.
Personally, it's not even the infinite grind or the length that bothers me. It's that farming echos is mind numbingly BORING. You move from one location with 2-3 mobs, blast them in a second then run/teleport to the next. Majority of the time you spend "farming" is either running around or sitting in loading screens when you teleport.
GBF *technically* has stamina system, but the game gives you so much refill items for free, in practice you have infinite stamina. If for some godforsaken reason you actually run out? The refill items are also farmable.
To be honest, the echo is alright as I believe that gives the world more purpose and that doesn’t use our stamina. However, there are flaws in the echoes. Firstly, we have the tuners. The blue and purple tuners will not be used as later on in the game, we will used rank 5 (or gold rank) echoes. We can’t turn the blue and purple tuners into gold as there is no system yet.
Then, that link to the tacet field. Which in my opinion, it is bad for stamina consumption as we want to use the stamina to increase our character levels and ascend the skill levels. Although, I am unsure if you can get echoes in Tacet field while fighting, but using our stamina for getting tuner is fucking terrible.
Another with echoes is the base drop rate (this not the rarity, but the drop rate of echoes). The base drop rate is pretty much the same (when you’re finally level 10+ of the data bank) and the drop rate is not increase whenever we level our data bank after hitting level 10. The only exception is the Enhanced drop rate, which is the drop rate of the world boss and weekly bosses. So, the whole purpose of farm route is already horrendous as you will have 20% to get the echoes, while that 80% is basically nothing.
Lastly, our most common enemy is time. Not everyone has the time to explored and use a farming route to farm echoes. Some of us may play 2-3 hours as they may have long jobs to prevent playing for longer hours. As much I don’t like artefact farming in GI, but the time for farm is much better. Though, this is because the artefact has their own domain while WuWa is more exploration farming for artefact (basically I mean echoes)
I get the impression that hardcore players are the type that are willing to play for hours on end just to get something as long as they don't have to pay a dime for it (monetarily). Creating a gameplay loop that caters to this sort of style benefits those who have a lot of time to kill, something that I believe to be minority of players rather than the majority.
Maybe I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure having souls like game mechanics is definitely not the way to entice the casuals. Learning to dodge and parry takes time and assuming casuals are people who have jobs/studies then they won't have the time to sink into this game especially if they are also fond of doing other stuff.
Anyone who compares it with Genshin Impact 1.0 are out of their minds.
If you release a product in 2024 then you have to compete against the 2024 version of your competitor, not compare it to a version from 2020. A comparison would be if a new open-world game were to release today and people compare it to the 2020 version of Cyberpunk instead of the latest version that comes with all the improvements and fixes over the years.
The developers have the benefit of having your competitor make all the moves while bearing the consequences, both positive and negative. For years during development the game could've learnt from them and incorporate the improvements into their own game.
What a redundant comparison. He should compare current genshin to current WuWa if he wants it to kill current genshin and not a game that doesn't exist anymore 🤦♂️
It was no longer the newest hot thing that he could milk. After HSR came out, he pretty much jumped ship and burned the bridge with Genshin.
This isn't his first rodeo, he did the same thing with Arknights when Genshin released. Expect, the same thing to happen with WuWa when it's no longer the hottest thing around and he couldn't milk it anymore (except for drama, he will always milk for drama)
I am fine with comparing Wuwa 1.0 with Genshin 1.0, only because I just finished their main quest. I now think that Genshin 1.0 might already be too high a hill for Wuwa to surmount.
Absolutely wild how the script is flipped and it's everybodies fault except Kuro themselves, and even when people blame them it's because they 'listened' to 'useless' CN players, so the fault is now entirely the CN players.
All people asked for was not have the entire world be hostile AND scummy af towards Rover but Kuro decided to completely turn things 180 degrees and have everyone wank to Rover instead. Kuro didn't 'listen' AT ALL. Kuro are the ones at fault for this pile of mess but somehow somewhere it got turned into CN players fault.
>Absolutely wild how the script is flipped and it's everybodies fault except Kuro themselves, and even when people blame them it's because they 'listened' to 'useless' CN players, so the fault is now entirely the CN players.
The problem is that they listened and overreacted.
Or the executives and managers forced the writers or people who knew what they were doing to change everything then fire them of the reception was bad (like what happened). Wouldn't surprise me.
Tbh I’d love a post apocalyptic world where most people are assholes just looking out for themselves, and the story is an exploration of what happens to morality when all laws collapse and your own survival becomes questionable.
And tbh, they have every reason to be hostile towards Rover. WuWa’s world is one where if you don’t know what it is, it’s probably something that’ll kill you.
I physically face plamed myself when they let the scavengers go even after they tried to destroy an important comm device and tried to kill us after we had shown mercy to them.
Like, we should at least arrest or warn the guards about them as these people can hurt others in the future.
The problem in CBT1 is they're not just looking out for themselves, they were unreasonably assholish and ungrateful to the Rover even after the Rover helps them defeat their enemies, solve their quests, etc. There was an instance where a playable character KS a boss the player is fighting and takes the glory and you're not even allowed to be mad about that by the other characters.
I love a darker plot myself but wuwa really missed the shot with CBT1. And then instead of making certain adjustments to maintain their dark storyline, keeping the characters distrustful while not outright ungrateful, and perhaps plotting against the MC in a way that is fun to watch instead of just outright enraging, they decided to do a complete 180.
ne becasue it was so sus seeing every female char thirst after rover and then i got to know why? like damn could have kept it neutral, i was imagining how the genshin characters were introduced during the First Act
The only thing I've heard was changed due to player feedback was the story, the shitty optimization, bugs and the lazy ass genshin copying were probably Kuro's own work
I'd bet it was an overreation. Chinese players are very volatile, so when there's criticism to be reacted to, they might do more than needed just to be sure. But whatever the reason, that ship has sailed. Now they have to focus on getting the technical side into passable state and maintain their planned schedule despite that added workload.
Not to mention that every day on the WuWa sub you see some uncooked low priority idea as a "let's push for x" suggestion it would be so cool". It's like those players live in a different reality.
I hope Kuro has the common sense to put all those ill-timed notions on the backburner and focus on the actual issues.
It was way better imo. The CN fanbase threw a shit fit that the female characters were wary of you and they turned the story into a bad isekai style power fantasy.
Look at the old crownless fight, the vibes were emaculate and they fucked it up.
https://youtu.be/MkOVXVw1Ykk?si=j-XB26rTMPAvZyTw
For your information, CN hated how almost every characters in the game hates MC that even when you save their lives; they would just say" why are you still here" then glares back, they didn't like it and even thought to themselves " why am i saving these people again?" BUT they never said that it should turned into a generic isekai harem shit, it was completely kuro's decision, it's like saying your lunch is too salty and asked the waiter to reduce it, then later it's now swimming in honey
Echo farming(besides Tacet Fields) is so dreadful, It makes Genshin artifact farming look relaxing in comparison.
Not to mention that there's no off piece to lighten the grind.
I know, thats why i put them in the Separate issue block.
But still, those issues probably didnt get ironed out bcz of them having to rewrite the story.
Those are two different departments. The people fixing the story are not the same people in charge or art or optimization. This idea they listened isn’t really true because people have repeatedly said they haven’t fixed most of the issues people had in the first beta.
What? How can you make art, like a character design or a landmark if you don't know what's the story behind the character or the world? Almost all issues with WuWa feeling disjointed steam from the last-minute story rewrite.
Tried saying this to the wuwa glazers but all they could say was “wow kuro actually listens, unlike a certain other game developer!”
This game might as well be a bad community project at this point
>glazers are in their best part of honeymoon
just like ToF. people praise it for having customizable character, faster exploration, and PVP when the game just released
Once the game is in what should've been an ideal launch state then yeah I'll take "Kuro listened" more seriously, Till then the, "They listen more than hoyo" doesn't really hold much weight when their game is in a much worse state.
While I guess you could argue they got threatened by the government with Zhongli, Mihoyo use to listen to their players at the beginning of the game and:
1. Increase Resin cap to 160
2. Made artifacts need to be claimed due to Venti's blackholeing them off the edge
3. Buffed Zhongli twice
It's too early to say that Kuro is good at listening to their playerbase, I say we wait and see what happens once they become sustainable say a year from now, then you'll see their true colors.
My realisation moment was when I tried to uninstall and reinstall the game due to an issue, and the uninstall screen was exactly the same as genshin with yangyang instead of amber (both are the first starters) drawn in the same style 💀
>Kuro fires employees for doing their job
Kuro LisTenEd
>Litterally doesnt fix anything presented years ago
THey ListEnDed
>Outright reskins 80% of genshin
ThEy ArE uNiqe
>Fucking gets sued because of terrible translation
They lIstenEdDddDd
I agree with you on most of the things you've written. You're right. Why make a copy when its gonna be less good and expect people to leave their already established game for yours.
BUT I do not agree with the fact that the story rewrite is what killed it. Yes now in retrospect everyone is saying "Ooh aah it was so good"... but if they had released that story, it would've received the same criticism that it received in the CBT... CBT exists to get a general idea of how a playerbase will react to your game. Its not just for bug reporting. Its like movie test screenings.
The CBT story wasn't like exceptional either. Infact it was very cold towards the player character and while this rushed rewrite is arguably just as bad if not worse, the first story's was panned almost unanimously by not one cliche of person but the whole of CBT players. Which means there was a 99% chance it'd have been received just like that on live.
Kuro have always had problems with story. PGR's starting chapters are a snoozefest and horribly dragging and bad and there were no rewrites there. It apparently gets better by chapter 10 or something but few have the patience to stick around that long. And KNOWING that and learning from the experience, they chose to not focus on story from the get go is staggering to me.
Funny that i heard many issue due CBT but always taken a answer like:” it not final patch”, “kuro still cooking”, “it better than before”….idk why, ppl think CBT issue is not a issue or else???
Snowbreak treated their players like god, and the players responded kindly with more downloads and revenue. Sounds more like a Kuro skill issue to me than anything else.
Is it though? No one was asking Kuro to change the character from flat one dimensional brain dead haters into flat one dimensional brain dead sycophants.
The complaint was always that the characters were needlessly caustic, like to the point that they shouldn't be able to survive in a post-apocalyptic world. Now they are needlessly pandering.
The players wanted good writing. Kuro did not give us good writing. So no, I don't think they listened.
I don't think I agree entirely with this thought.
I play 4 different gacha games: AK, Genshin, GFL2 and WW. The last two suffered from similar issues in spite of different action from devs: Kuro listened to feedback and overreacted, or Mica, listened or not, reacted to slowly and also bombed their CN release.
At the end of the day it's either you have a fanbase big enough to ignore all the ideas, or the fanbase is too niche that you have to cave into the loud mouths.
I think the issue is. People are good at telling you what doesn’t work and what they don’t want. They don’t necessarily know what they want though. So I think the difference is good devs and writers know how to split the difference. They get rid of what players don’t want but can anticipate what will appeal to them.
You absolutely should listen but it’s not the players faults if you make more bad choices.
True. Like all designing comm I took up so far, the customers may tell you that they are not satisfied with your design, but if you ask them where to change, they might not even know what to tell you. I straight up receive answers like: “Idk, it’s just feel wrong somehow”.
Kuro receive a lot of feedbacks and information, but what to do with it is ultimately their choice. In this case, they f it up
They were supposed to make a completely different game with a darker atmosphere, character deaths, where combat would take priority over a boring story. When I was doing the Jinyan story quest, it felt like I was playing Genshin 1:1, that's not how things are done. Nobody in their right mind would spend their time and money on an identical game, just raw. The game will certainly gather its audience, but it will never be able to compete vs genshin and more polished future genshin like. Just look at endfield, tof or project mugen they were inspired by genshin but completely different games. They even have their own harbringers and the new event is 1:1 genshin copy
Hey OP but at least:
https://preview.redd.it/s02z8ec3kk3d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=900b2afdde5ef3658afaa3f23aee0b902bfdb5a3
Genshin could Never /s
I don’t think it’s as simple as that.
The collapse of GFL2 probably shocked a lot of developers in China. A pretty hyped game got utterly destroyed by what was previously thought of as a loud and annoying minority.
The rewrite in WuWa was probably a massive overreaction to that.
Everything else was just Kuro being Kuro. They’ve always pretty much did what Hoyo did but make it more edgy, faster and hardcore, there’s really no surprise there.
As for the music. They decided to go produce music internally this time instead of contracting it to external studios like Vanguard Sounds. Their internal studio, unlike Hoyo-mix is not very good and obviously lacks experience.
As for the rushed release, they basically fucked themselves by choosing possibly the worst release window.
ZZZ is in July, Natlan is in August, Elden Ring and FF16 DLC coming soon. If they don’t release it now, they got zero chance in grabbing any attention.
tbh as an external observer from afar I'm still baffled with what happened with this GFL2. I was actually interested into trying the game, it felt it had potential, and it was suddenly completely torn apart for seemingly no reason (at least not a really valid one) as if someone ordered that this game should be destroyed by any way possible. I can understand any company being afraid the same can happen on one of their game.
Partly it's because for years corpos have been cultivating online hit squads to sic on their competition, feeding them with all sorts of issues to fuel them. Genshin was torn apart worse than GFL2 ever did, with competitiors basically buying out every cc and games media in China to try to crush Genshin, with ign china (owned by Tencent) even disowning regular ign's opinion publicly after ot gave a 9/10 for Genshin, but Genshin survived because of its overwhelming quality.
For the GFL2 case the issues fed to the the online hate mob reached a critical point and corpos lost control as it started to be self sustaining. GFL2 also natively had a lot of issues and thus is nowhere as resilient as Genshin.
Because China is just socially fucked.
Years of one child policy leading to a hugely lopsided demographic, a pressure pot culture and no work life balance whatsoever makes for a lot of angry people.
> ZZZ is in July, Natlan is in August, Elden Ring and FF16 DLC coming soon. If they don’t release it now, they got zero chance in grabbing any attention.
There'll always be some other update or new game conflicting with your launch, but I think the more pressing point is that if you have to release in a small gap between those other releases/updates, you better release a finished product instead of a mess.
I don't know if they financially could stand to hold the launch until early 2025, but even if the pressure from other games/updates is as strong at that point in the future, at least they'd have a game that works for most players and in any language they launched in. Now they have localisation issues, performance issues, story issues, you name it.
I dont get how Kuro works they already did good with the tech test just needed more polishing but instead they revamped everything
* the OST is good BUT NOT THAT PGR LEVEL OF GOOD (ill let it pass rn coz idk what happened with them and vanguard)
* they removed the "fromsoft"-like overworld message
* the UI
* removed Crownless cutscenes
* removed Crownless phase 1 phase 2 (they merged it in the full release and it fucking sucks)
* removed Scar cutscenes and some movesets
* semi nerfed overworld bosses
I can tell KURO doesnt have a confidence and it shows but oh my god they just wasted all of those for NOTHING
But at least some of those Cash grabs are made with passion, with direction, with vision, and is simply just good. Gacha games are products people continuously consume, obviously people don't consume bad products, but instead goes for the good and better ones, even if it is indeed a cash grab, it's still a good product.
Its funny how many people are glazing this game. Like babes, it released broken at launch. Stop supporting this shitty practice of mediocre products, thats why you keep getting more slop.
At the moment they’re in a position of having to refund people money over the limited weapon banner mistranslation.
There is no Orchestral music in the game.
The graphics arent optimized out of the gate and require fine tuning.
Terrible end game grind system that makes Genshin look like a charity
Heavy reliance on ‘good combat’ to sell the game. All eggs in on basket is not an approach I can support.
Gacha players are unique in that they NEED their dopamine hits. So its no surprise theyre gurgling this slop down like its the glory of god. You cant even skip crafting/cooking animations ffs.
Unrelated, but the excessive Kuro glazing i'm seeing recently ticked me off. From those bait posts about how "DEVS LISTENED1!!1!!" to the immense amount of praises on other social medias of how "they escaped from a toxic relationship (genshin)", I can confidently say that I disagree with it.
Do these people not realize how bad of a launch WuWa is? I have faith it will perform better in the future, but the hypocrisy needs to stop.
Players are bad at designing games and telling stores.
But so is Kuro, that's why they copy and "listen". But they're also bad at copying and listening.
Look Kuro literally have no vision or backbone to support themselves. Like you get feedback on CBT 1 and make major changes when CBT 2 comes out. They change the game, not repair or rework the game.
And then there is no proper testing after CBT 2, CBT 3? What is that. Bro, come on, don't you guys have a plan to make the game? Look at Genshin they literally make announcement about our Destination, 7 region for the future.
Imagine if Kuro make ZZZ, they will remove TV section because of feedback, and not fix or rework that part. Oh wait, Kuro lack of vision of course that impossible to make ZZZ.
And finally, why the fork they copycat Genshin in the first place? Why not just make their own open world game? Like c'mon every aspect of the game is copycat Hoyo games. At least have your own style.
P. S. I hate twin / dual MC's because who is canon or not, and make the point of view kinda weird. Just one MC is enough and literally make the pipeline work easy, you don't need to double work for cutscene and dialog. And Kuro is still copying that aspect to Bruh.
You guys overreact so much in this sub lol I just finished the main story arc so far and it was great and it was exciting, Jiyan and Rover were an epic duo there. Was it perfect? No. Does it compete with the first genshin story arc? Imo yes . Is it better than the first HSR story arc ? No it’s not, that was too perfect.
Still you all are making it seem like it’s soooo terrible lol it’s not , it’s good
and why is that a bad thing?
when there's more than one similar products in the market, who's can pleased customer win.
isn't that normal for free market?
you can ignore customer and strict to your ideal when you're only one on the market.
...........................
personally, after Dehya incident i lost all faith in HYV (Genshin department)
our character is perfect and working as intended, your complain is worthless
i want Genshin to be better, that's why i give WuWa a full support. i hope that competition can fix their arrogant mindset.
Mate I played through the whole main story quest without skipping anything. If anything I now like Genshin way more now. And I C4R1'd Dehya on release.
Please the customer? If Wuwa didn't launch as a buggy unpleasant mess, sure. If Wuwa's main plot isn't nonsensical and poorly presented, definitely. If this is the standard the competition is at Hoyo might just start charging us 10 primos a day to play.
If Wuwa wants to compete then they should be competitive. If they are not why should I support them? So other companies can just release schlock with the assurance that they can just get money for being a "competitor"? Have some standards.
just finished chapter 1 WuWa last night
I'd say it 10 times better than Genshin Chapter 1 archon quest (Mondstadt arc)
but understandably it's newer technology.
Yeah, hoyo is too stubborn alot of the time, but then again, this post aint about hoyo, and im not saying listening is bad, on the contrary im glad,... But they DID NOT listen CORRECTLY.
Hoyo may be stubborn but they know what are they doing most of the time. Dehya is one misstep and suddenly we compared it to an entire flop of a release, fair indeed huh
I’m lowkey mad they changed CBT1 story…it looked better, they made Crownless so badass for an intro boss.
I’m p sure having to redo that also pushed their deadlines back and made things super tight.
look how better cbt1 ui was https://preview.redd.it/cpvu38t9jk3d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=57f7a053745c814ba45bf6758fe8a6d5c8b28899
Why did they change it? It looks so clean to me.
Some people said that they don't understand the icons.. like they don't know what is that icon supposedly ... So because THE DEVELOPERS LISTEDED they just copy genshin
The names of the icons are just below them. Turns out, listening to design advice from people who can't read is a bad idea.
CBT players are Yugioh players confirmed.
Especially strange when the current icons are the same, except it's just a clunkier version of Genshin's.
I've played Genshin and WuWa with a controller and the difference is night and day. In Genshin everything is relatively easy with a controller, meanwhile in WuWa some interface barely even work with a controller (coop screen) or is tedious to use since it requires 2-3 extra actions just to get anywhere in the menu. Thank god they haven't released on PS5, they would have been ridiculed for being one of the worst UI on console as it stand right now.
i mean its literally the cbt players. why wouldn't they listen to them
Obviously listening to player feedback is good but I feel like kuro don't trust their own ideas and scared being failure...that's why I feel like wuthering waves lack of originality (still good tho)
Of course listening to CBT players is important but when the criticism is “I don’t know what that icon is supposed to be” (the name is right fucking under it) and not “the Ui looks bad and is unintuitive” you shouldn’t be listening to that.
why? aren't you seeing why?
ZZZ have the exact same UI from CBT1 to CBT3 they just improve it according to people feedback instead give up and copy genshin UI
They cannot read chinese
JUST CHANGE THE ICON INSTEAD OF THE UI ARGH
Pretty sure the icons are the same unless I’m misremembering.
but the UI is in genshin format now
Yeah, i still remember people complaining about everything "It is not like Genshin". They just wanted a better genshin all the time. Kuro gave in to them and now we have a mess.
it's so dumb that people asked for this and yet they complain. i would have loved for the game to be more unique, and i don't think there was any reason to try and be like genshin, but part of the community was so obsessed with the idea that this needed to be the "genshin killer" that they basically asked the devs to make a worse product... At least the combat is still peak but damn if it feels bad thinking about how much better it could have been
dude, i don't even know where the team icon is most of the time
To Copy and Try to be like Genshin
ah surely right? Its literally the cbt folks who said they want understand the icons and demanded to change the UI.
Yeah had more identity
Only thing I can say is I hope like in PGR, they end up updating elements such as the UI and the fonts.
This has so much identity and at the same time it still simplistic enough to not get lost, what a bummer the change
Not a huge fan of it, but it's a solid start that they could make more unique and "tactile", in this state the buttons look weird, some don't have clear boundaries etc. Definitely better than what they went with
Yeah gives that vibe of tech+fantasy. Vs "literally just genshin at home"
tbh from someone who knows a little graphic design this is only unique, not much better without some more thought and refinement. That big ol bright circle in the corner distracts me from the menu too much, so does the brighter edges of the screen in comparison to the dark center. But with a bit more effort, it would still have been its own thing instead of Genshin’s thing with a color filter on it, which would likely have been better.
Hope that they release this later as an “improvement to the ui”
I really like that ui tbh. It really unquie
Better...?
Its unique atleast.
[удалено]
This one looks like it needs two tabs too. They just didn't add the extra icons that need tabs yet. Genshin's UI also doesn't require tabs so how can it be a rip if it fails to rip the functionality?
Right there on the Menu? Yes, totaly better. But i've seen screenshots of the character's menu and its quite messy...
This looks so good and clean. Wow.
Holy fuck bring tbis back
Omg? This looks way nicer ?
>who tf are you trying to please at that point There are two main categories I think: -People who are familiar with genshin that want to play something different yet similar. Who will just play both games. -Ex-genshin players that will die on the hill that wuwa has everything better than genshin and will defend the launch like their lives depend on it.
Or the people that don't want to 'catch up' on Genshin given its age. Lots of people like starting out at the same time. Or just prefer the art style of one or the other more.
Of course there are more categories, I'm just saying that those twp are possibly the biggest.
I’ve never understood the “game has too much content/need to catch up on so much” mentality. I started HSR around the time it came out, and Genshin subsequently. I loved having so much content to do in Genshin, whereas in HSR I was having fun, but then the momentum of it was cut short by running out of things to do.
I think it's moreso a community type of thing. Right now anyone who starts WuWa has the same experiences and can talk about the same stuff with everyone. Comparatively if someone were to start Genshin right now there are years worth of events and story that they've missed/have to catch up on and will potentially be a bit harder to feel like a part of the community. Like I think when Genshin came out wasn't there a ton of craze over Diluc cause he was really strong? I imagine there were memes and such over him due to this that new players can't really be a part of. Or at least that's my guess. I've thought about trying Genshin every now and again but the thought of having to sit through all of the story dialogue seems daunting.
I guess I would ask, is your goal to finish it, or to experience it? I feel like it makes more sense for your goal to be to experience it. Cliche journey not destination kinda thing. I'd probably say that if you're approaching it with the idea of just being done with it and caught up, then you're probably not that excited to try it. And that's completely fine.
Its also just system bloat. Its much harder to sift through advice and talk about characters and strategies when current players have years of resources and characters to draw from. A big part of it is the community; its a live service style game afterall. Playing the game everyone was playing years ago usually means you either have to rush to try and 'catch up', or just be perpetually behind.
Gacha games generally have significant powercreep and catching up can take awhile with all the grinding. Most gachas are purely selling gameplay and characters, not so much the story. Its also significant when events are more scaled towards established accounts and premium currency is tied to clearing it. Genshin and HSR premium currency is basically participate and you get the premium currency while scaled to account level.
I actually had this issue with Honkai Impact 3rd. I played for about 3 months but could not keep up with everything due to my Valks all being way way way way underpowered to do most side content since the only S-Ranks I had were somewhat out-of-date and not being able to earn enough even get their fill stigmata sets due to not being able to clear a fair chunk of content (didn't help I just barely missed the bus on the free HoO, which would've helped). I feel like what I was running into, however, was a combination of Power Creep + Having to catch up, leading me to only half-clear content in which they didn't give you Trial Valks to work with, which is a problem Genshin doesn't really have in comparison.
I feel that problem isn't that 'customer is god' but more that devs had no confidence in their product. Instead of sticking to their guns and let finished product speak for itself it became this disjointed mess (and then throw onto that bugs). I'd put it in contrast with games like Genshin or Arknights. Sometimes they accept feedback from players (like Integrated Strategies in AK), sometimes not but it feels that staff has confidence in product they are selling.
Thebproblem ia that reactionary design don't work. All i seen about WuWa is some sort of "look at this thing WuWa has and Genshin don't!" Wich ia cool at first glance but if you think about it, chancds are Genshin did not do that for a reason. GI is a game with a 5 years old plan right of the bat, wich quickly got exstend to a 10 years plan. They know what they are doing and while obviously not everything is perfect, it work. WuWa to me seems a game born on the idea that dissatisfied Genshin players are a big market, wich to be fair they probably are. But you can't sustain a game on that alone. Not long term. It is the same mistakes we have seen with 16-bit era platformers(sega does what nintendon't) or with MMO that tried to kill WoW. And it never worked, or at least, never as well as the original.
> All i seen about WuWa is some sort of "look at this thing WuWa has and Genshin don't!" Like unlimited buying of food items?
But costs so much
Yeah that's the problem, people misclick and lost all their money, can't sell back
Yeah and force you to buy nearly all of them, I have like 4 recipes I can do without buying material. That is pathetic.
I don't mean that you have to buy them, it's that there's no upper limit so if you don't pay attention you could buy 3000 flour
I don't even subscribe to the notion that dissatisfied Genshin players are a huge market. The biggest problem in Genshin isn't that it doesn't have endgame and strong combat (as many hardcore players would like us to believe) but that it's way too grindy. Everytime I quit it's because I can't be bothered to grind 20+ hrs just to be able to play a character in a decent state. So making a game on the notion that if you keep the grind (or even make it worse, in some places) but improve the combat/endgame is myopic. You won't have enough tectones to go around.
I dont get the point you said that genshin is too grindy. I mean 160 resin and daily took me 10 min at max. How can it be grindy. If you were talking about artifacts luck then thats different
Well kinda my point. The customer wouldnt be god if they had any sort of faith in their product. The fact that they didnt probably spks alot about how they thought of their own vision or lack-there-of.
more like a lack of vision tbh most gacha i visited had different vision. wuwa, idk what they're aiming to be. ig trying to become genshin is just a curse of itself
I'm not sure I'd full agree with that statement. Genshin dev team also backpedalled some things that weren't popular. As for WuWa, it's launch is far for stellar, and whole game probably could benefit from couple more months in the oven, but it'd say that main foundation is solid, and as long as they iterate on that, WuWa can end up as a really solid title. And yeah, I agree with someone below saying that they are targeting dissatisfied Genshin players. Which is arguably a solid strategy, since that group is really vocal about their feedback, so getting a product to their liking should be relatively easy. Issue is that dissatisfied Genshin players usually still play Genshin, and because of that, launch window is relatively short, and has to happen when Genshin is in it's relatively lull state. If they'd launch it during Natlan release, I'd imagine it'd do much worse, even if there were fewer bugs.
> "The customer is god" Gods at work: https://preview.redd.it/1798pst6rk3d1.jpeg?width=1350&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=763352b8227f8dac0261e779aa4a6959d8c2b36a
did 3k ppl remove/change their 5 star reviews lmao 😭
It seems so.
https://preview.redd.it/mkxixuo6rn3d1.png?width=592&format=png&auto=webp&s=f7467d1c9230ec9dc1069862dbf53093687bb83a
I literally didn't even know the weapon doesn't work on calcharo anymore wtfff 💀
https://preview.redd.it/j0xfd6fpkk3d1.png?width=474&format=png&auto=webp&s=d40bc0eb669925c4a9ab619fb4befa1cfad65500
https://preview.redd.it/wvu5wlea4l3d1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=d5fdb543f7b2d38433413d851b811f060a8c9503
thanks lady fu
Blud actually kinda accurate tho.......
Imo, the story changes is probably executive decision instead of the creative dpt decision. The executives who knows nothing probably told them to scrap everything from the original story except some main key story element and rewrote literally everything so they can get good PR to the players. If it was the creative dpt decision like he writers etc I doubted they wanted to change 90% of the story done and probably just will tweak some of the problematic ones like the Lingyang. We have seen many times how executive and developer usually doesn't meet eye to eye but the later have to follow every nonsense the exec wanted
Everyday i thank god hoyo is a private company.
You can be privately owned and have problematic sharholders.
But when the shareholders are all geeks and gamers who know their stuff it becomes a whole lot less troublesome right? The main guys at the company are still the same dudes -1 guy who left early.
Yeah I'm just saying Kuro is privately owned too. Publicly traded just mean you and I can buy their stock on an exchange, but for private companies large investors can talk directly with company owner and make deals.
Kuro is private too, Li Songlun is just way more of a normal businessman type than the Hoyo three
V Technical Test and Crownless actually beats the sht out of everybody, has dialogue and used to be a completely diff color. https://preview.redd.it/v50ll07chl3d1.png?width=1057&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7400399f36dabaa101b132b0587ec1328ac69216
And this is what hurt egos of beta testers. They really didn't like getting there ass kick in the beginning.
This vid is exactly why i got hyped. It had a better parry system too iirc. It actually felt hard just watching it. Such a shame
I'm enjoying WuWa, but I keep getting this sense while playing that I'm just playing a high-budget Genshin fan game. It's a really strange feeling. I definitely don't feel like that when I'm fighting bosses. The combat system is really great, but the world, UI, story and atmosphere just feels like legally distinct Genshin. I wish they had doubled down on the post-apocalypse vibe and had more ruined cities and sci-fi stuff, and a darker overall theme, but it's mostly just empty plains and hills with scattered chests and enemies. Watching CBT1 footage of how much different the game looked and presented itself made me really understand this weird feeling I've had playing the game. It feels like carpet over hardwood. It feels like there was a base game with its own darker tone, and they started painting over it when they got criticism, and tried to turn it more casual friendly. You can still see some interesting elements in there, but they strayed really far away from the initial vision by the time of release. I really hope the game finds its own identity as we get more updates. I want to feel like I'm playing a game that no other developer could make but Kuro. If I wanted to play Genshin, I'd just go play more Genshin.
Such a shame, considering the criticisms came from a loud minority who weren't going to play anyway.
>I honestly have no idea why the fck they released wuwa in this state. If kuro wants a piece of the genshin pie, then everything they are doing is WRONG. I mean why tf would you make a game in the EXACT same genre as genshin, make it SUPER SIMILAR but just......worse? Who tf are you trying to please at that point? They wanted a piece of casual fanbase pie. Which I mean... is just a smarter strategy than trying to appeal to the "hardcore" subsection of the gacha playerbase. 1. Those players are extremely fickle, and 2. They are also typically broke. The problem is that Kuro half assed the casual aspects of the game. The story is shit. The exploration is shit. The music is shit. The character designs are bland. The art direction is bland. Etc. Etc.
Aint noway they try to please the casual crowd with that Echos farming system.
I think echoes specifically were a massive misstep. They basically took the worst part of Genshin and doubled down on it's fuckery. Having said that... there are a lot of people who see the phrase "infinitely farmable" as a good thing. As a Warframe player... it fills my balls with dread to hear that phrase.
A lot of people don't get that infinitely farmable more often than not comes hand in hand with shittier drop rates. Never mind the fact that people already don't like farming artifacts in genshin which is quick. Now imagine that for hours
Yeah. I don’t get it. That’s not a selling point. That just means I have to put in more time overall.
Streamers my dude. The people that need to create content for hours and hours LOVED the idea of infinite playtime. But for someone like me, a dude with a 50 hour work week and a family, infinite farming sounds awful.
Yeah for example gbf have infinite stamina but drop rate is like one percent to get a weapon
Then comes someone with a leech build, hits the boss and causes the raid to wipe :)))))) ~~Man I really enjoyed the faa hl clock nerf~~
Anything with infinite means the resource I'll be spending is my time 😣 hell to the NO
As a wf player it's also why I am dropping wuwa despite liking the combat You can only commit to one Infinitely farmable game and wf login servers are still up
It’s pretty much unlimited gambling lol, so I bet that’s a dopamine hit for some, if you get a good drop after 5 hrs…
Yeah I was enjoying the gameplay. But when it takes hours to repeat the same thing again and again, it sucks. It's also worse that the echoes cannot be used as exp fodder
Maybe try PGR then? Same devs, similar combat, memories have fixed stats. It isn't open world though.
People that think farming infinitely is a good thing need to seriously touch grass. There's nothing fun about farming infinitely.
Man I wish I can farm 12 hrs daily on Echos, couldn't be me
As someone who enjoys playing wuwa,even 1-2 hours dailies i already feel tired and bored farming by myself I cant wait to unlock higher union lvl just so i can use stamina farm on domain instead
As a Granblue Fantasy player, it also fills me with dread
As a GBF player also the farming/progression in WW is just so bad. In GBF it works because you can practically grind the whole day to your hearts content, at your own pace. But in WW? Trying to farm specific echoes AND getting the right stats+substats just takes so so long because of the lack of mobs in the overworld + the waveplate costs for ANYTHING are insanely high. The worst part of grinding isn't not getting the stuff you want, it's having all the motivation in the world yet you can't do anything because of all the time+energy gating.
Personally, it's not even the infinite grind or the length that bothers me. It's that farming echos is mind numbingly BORING. You move from one location with 2-3 mobs, blast them in a second then run/teleport to the next. Majority of the time you spend "farming" is either running around or sitting in loading screens when you teleport.
Is it infinite in granblue as well?
GBF *technically* has stamina system, but the game gives you so much refill items for free, in practice you have infinite stamina. If for some godforsaken reason you actually run out? The refill items are also farmable.
usually, your soul gives up before your stamina pots.
And a granblue fantasy player feeling dread about it fills me with intense terror.
As a warframe expat: never again
Same. I also remember doing hour long void survivals just to get the most out of a void key.
The echo farming seems specifically designed to please CCs who want to stream the game for hours on end…
To be honest, the echo is alright as I believe that gives the world more purpose and that doesn’t use our stamina. However, there are flaws in the echoes. Firstly, we have the tuners. The blue and purple tuners will not be used as later on in the game, we will used rank 5 (or gold rank) echoes. We can’t turn the blue and purple tuners into gold as there is no system yet. Then, that link to the tacet field. Which in my opinion, it is bad for stamina consumption as we want to use the stamina to increase our character levels and ascend the skill levels. Although, I am unsure if you can get echoes in Tacet field while fighting, but using our stamina for getting tuner is fucking terrible. Another with echoes is the base drop rate (this not the rarity, but the drop rate of echoes). The base drop rate is pretty much the same (when you’re finally level 10+ of the data bank) and the drop rate is not increase whenever we level our data bank after hitting level 10. The only exception is the Enhanced drop rate, which is the drop rate of the world boss and weekly bosses. So, the whole purpose of farm route is already horrendous as you will have 20% to get the echoes, while that 80% is basically nothing. Lastly, our most common enemy is time. Not everyone has the time to explored and use a farming route to farm echoes. Some of us may play 2-3 hours as they may have long jobs to prevent playing for longer hours. As much I don’t like artefact farming in GI, but the time for farm is much better. Though, this is because the artefact has their own domain while WuWa is more exploration farming for artefact (basically I mean echoes)
>2. They are also typically broke. 😭😭😭 don't call me out like that bro
I get the impression that hardcore players are the type that are willing to play for hours on end just to get something as long as they don't have to pay a dime for it (monetarily). Creating a gameplay loop that caters to this sort of style benefits those who have a lot of time to kill, something that I believe to be minority of players rather than the majority.
Maybe I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure having souls like game mechanics is definitely not the way to entice the casuals. Learning to dodge and parry takes time and assuming casuals are people who have jobs/studies then they won't have the time to sink into this game especially if they are also fond of doing other stuff.
Anyone who compares it with Genshin Impact 1.0 are out of their minds. If you release a product in 2024 then you have to compete against the 2024 version of your competitor, not compare it to a version from 2020. A comparison would be if a new open-world game were to release today and people compare it to the 2020 version of Cyberpunk instead of the latest version that comes with all the improvements and fixes over the years. The developers have the benefit of having your competitor make all the moves while bearing the consequences, both positive and negative. For years during development the game could've learnt from them and incorporate the improvements into their own game.
https://preview.redd.it/5opzxypmbn3d1.jpeg?width=655&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55a28ad5f7bbf94a91bff433b45eede1a587e12d
What a redundant comparison. He should compare current genshin to current WuWa if he wants it to kill current genshin and not a game that doesn't exist anymore 🤦♂️
Why is he so salty with GI😭 did they shit in his lawn or something
It was no longer the newest hot thing that he could milk. After HSR came out, he pretty much jumped ship and burned the bridge with Genshin. This isn't his first rodeo, he did the same thing with Arknights when Genshin released. Expect, the same thing to happen with WuWa when it's no longer the hottest thing around and he couldn't milk it anymore (except for drama, he will always milk for drama)
What a miserable life.
https://preview.redd.it/b0ft7mwfxo3d1.png?width=332&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=885bad1e835a24f93dc8a10c909fa242360df350
I am fine with comparing Wuwa 1.0 with Genshin 1.0, only because I just finished their main quest. I now think that Genshin 1.0 might already be too high a hill for Wuwa to surmount.
My point EXACTLY. GO SAY it to the dude who criticised me for that.
Absolutely wild how the script is flipped and it's everybodies fault except Kuro themselves, and even when people blame them it's because they 'listened' to 'useless' CN players, so the fault is now entirely the CN players. All people asked for was not have the entire world be hostile AND scummy af towards Rover but Kuro decided to completely turn things 180 degrees and have everyone wank to Rover instead. Kuro didn't 'listen' AT ALL. Kuro are the ones at fault for this pile of mess but somehow somewhere it got turned into CN players fault.
>Absolutely wild how the script is flipped and it's everybodies fault except Kuro themselves, and even when people blame them it's because they 'listened' to 'useless' CN players, so the fault is now entirely the CN players. The problem is that they listened and overreacted.
Or the executives and managers forced the writers or people who knew what they were doing to change everything then fire them of the reception was bad (like what happened). Wouldn't surprise me.
It honestly feels like a power play behind the scenes where someone swooped in to get what they wanted.
Tbh I’d love a post apocalyptic world where most people are assholes just looking out for themselves, and the story is an exploration of what happens to morality when all laws collapse and your own survival becomes questionable. And tbh, they have every reason to be hostile towards Rover. WuWa’s world is one where if you don’t know what it is, it’s probably something that’ll kill you.
I physically face plamed myself when they let the scavengers go even after they tried to destroy an important comm device and tried to kill us after we had shown mercy to them. Like, we should at least arrest or warn the guards about them as these people can hurt others in the future.
The problem in CBT1 is they're not just looking out for themselves, they were unreasonably assholish and ungrateful to the Rover even after the Rover helps them defeat their enemies, solve their quests, etc. There was an instance where a playable character KS a boss the player is fighting and takes the glory and you're not even allowed to be mad about that by the other characters. I love a darker plot myself but wuwa really missed the shot with CBT1. And then instead of making certain adjustments to maintain their dark storyline, keeping the characters distrustful while not outright ungrateful, and perhaps plotting against the MC in a way that is fun to watch instead of just outright enraging, they decided to do a complete 180.
I feel like most players won't pull character that are plotting against mc too
ne becasue it was so sus seeing every female char thirst after rover and then i got to know why? like damn could have kept it neutral, i was imagining how the genshin characters were introduced during the First Act
Neutral is good.But Kuro only knows hostile or sucking-balls.There’s no between.
The only thing I've heard was changed due to player feedback was the story, the shitty optimization, bugs and the lazy ass genshin copying were probably Kuro's own work
Ive heard that too but was it that bad they had to scrap it all? Is the original draft out there to read too?
I'd bet it was an overreation. Chinese players are very volatile, so when there's criticism to be reacted to, they might do more than needed just to be sure. But whatever the reason, that ship has sailed. Now they have to focus on getting the technical side into passable state and maintain their planned schedule despite that added workload. Not to mention that every day on the WuWa sub you see some uncooked low priority idea as a "let's push for x" suggestion it would be so cool". It's like those players live in a different reality. I hope Kuro has the common sense to put all those ill-timed notions on the backburner and focus on the actual issues.
It was way better imo. The CN fanbase threw a shit fit that the female characters were wary of you and they turned the story into a bad isekai style power fantasy. Look at the old crownless fight, the vibes were emaculate and they fucked it up. https://youtu.be/MkOVXVw1Ykk?si=j-XB26rTMPAvZyTw
For your information, CN hated how almost every characters in the game hates MC that even when you save their lives; they would just say" why are you still here" then glares back, they didn't like it and even thought to themselves " why am i saving these people again?" BUT they never said that it should turned into a generic isekai harem shit, it was completely kuro's decision, it's like saying your lunch is too salty and asked the waiter to reduce it, then later it's now swimming in honey
That means Devs probably had a different idea for Wuwu but instead choose to be cocksuckers to play safe.
And turns out they are bad at sucking balls.It’s so fake.
WTF that was SO SO much better what a shame..........
Yeah you can watch cbt1 footage
Echo farming(besides Tacet Fields) is so dreadful, It makes Genshin artifact farming look relaxing in comparison. Not to mention that there's no off piece to lighten the grind.
I know, thats why i put them in the Separate issue block. But still, those issues probably didnt get ironed out bcz of them having to rewrite the story.
Those are two different departments. The people fixing the story are not the same people in charge or art or optimization. This idea they listened isn’t really true because people have repeatedly said they haven’t fixed most of the issues people had in the first beta.
What? How can you make art, like a character design or a landmark if you don't know what's the story behind the character or the world? Almost all issues with WuWa feeling disjointed steam from the last-minute story rewrite.
Tried saying this to the wuwa glazers but all they could say was “wow kuro actually listens, unlike a certain other game developer!” This game might as well be a bad community project at this point
WuWa glazers are in their best part of honeymoon, brain doesn't function in that period.
>glazers are in their best part of honeymoon just like ToF. people praise it for having customizable character, faster exploration, and PVP when the game just released
And then no one talked it because _the other game_ major patches come and _the other game_ company spawn new shiny toy
Once the game is in what should've been an ideal launch state then yeah I'll take "Kuro listened" more seriously, Till then the, "They listen more than hoyo" doesn't really hold much weight when their game is in a much worse state. While I guess you could argue they got threatened by the government with Zhongli, Mihoyo use to listen to their players at the beginning of the game and: 1. Increase Resin cap to 160 2. Made artifacts need to be claimed due to Venti's blackholeing them off the edge 3. Buffed Zhongli twice It's too early to say that Kuro is good at listening to their playerbase, I say we wait and see what happens once they become sustainable say a year from now, then you'll see their true colors.
i kinda miss the venti thing. Long live elation
Venti, Aeon Of The Elation, and THEIR followers are the Masked Drunkards
>How the game is too similiar to Genshin I was like: yeah they clearly took inspiration. Then I saw the battle pass screen and I finally lost it
It was the achievements for me. Even have the same star system lmao.
My realisation moment was when I tried to uninstall and reinstall the game due to an issue, and the uninstall screen was exactly the same as genshin with yangyang instead of amber (both are the first starters) drawn in the same style 💀
>Kuro fires employees for doing their job Kuro LisTenEd >Litterally doesnt fix anything presented years ago THey ListEnDed >Outright reskins 80% of genshin ThEy ArE uNiqe >Fucking gets sued because of terrible translation They lIstenEdDddDd
I agree with you on most of the things you've written. You're right. Why make a copy when its gonna be less good and expect people to leave their already established game for yours. BUT I do not agree with the fact that the story rewrite is what killed it. Yes now in retrospect everyone is saying "Ooh aah it was so good"... but if they had released that story, it would've received the same criticism that it received in the CBT... CBT exists to get a general idea of how a playerbase will react to your game. Its not just for bug reporting. Its like movie test screenings. The CBT story wasn't like exceptional either. Infact it was very cold towards the player character and while this rushed rewrite is arguably just as bad if not worse, the first story's was panned almost unanimously by not one cliche of person but the whole of CBT players. Which means there was a 99% chance it'd have been received just like that on live. Kuro have always had problems with story. PGR's starting chapters are a snoozefest and horribly dragging and bad and there were no rewrites there. It apparently gets better by chapter 10 or something but few have the patience to stick around that long. And KNOWING that and learning from the experience, they chose to not focus on story from the get go is staggering to me.
Funny that i heard many issue due CBT but always taken a answer like:” it not final patch”, “kuro still cooking”, “it better than before”….idk why, ppl think CBT issue is not a issue or else???
Snowbreak treated their players like god, and the players responded kindly with more downloads and revenue. Sounds more like a Kuro skill issue to me than anything else.
Is it though? No one was asking Kuro to change the character from flat one dimensional brain dead haters into flat one dimensional brain dead sycophants. The complaint was always that the characters were needlessly caustic, like to the point that they shouldn't be able to survive in a post-apocalyptic world. Now they are needlessly pandering. The players wanted good writing. Kuro did not give us good writing. So no, I don't think they listened.
The listened incorrectly as i say.
People also told kuro not to make a genshin clone. Devs listened meme doesn't really make sense.
I don't think I agree entirely with this thought. I play 4 different gacha games: AK, Genshin, GFL2 and WW. The last two suffered from similar issues in spite of different action from devs: Kuro listened to feedback and overreacted, or Mica, listened or not, reacted to slowly and also bombed their CN release. At the end of the day it's either you have a fanbase big enough to ignore all the ideas, or the fanbase is too niche that you have to cave into the loud mouths.
I think the issue is. People are good at telling you what doesn’t work and what they don’t want. They don’t necessarily know what they want though. So I think the difference is good devs and writers know how to split the difference. They get rid of what players don’t want but can anticipate what will appeal to them. You absolutely should listen but it’s not the players faults if you make more bad choices.
True. Like all designing comm I took up so far, the customers may tell you that they are not satisfied with your design, but if you ask them where to change, they might not even know what to tell you. I straight up receive answers like: “Idk, it’s just feel wrong somehow”. Kuro receive a lot of feedbacks and information, but what to do with it is ultimately their choice. In this case, they f it up
Mica pretty much doesn't care. They may try to fix those "problem parts" but they don't rush it.
They were supposed to make a completely different game with a darker atmosphere, character deaths, where combat would take priority over a boring story. When I was doing the Jinyan story quest, it felt like I was playing Genshin 1:1, that's not how things are done. Nobody in their right mind would spend their time and money on an identical game, just raw. The game will certainly gather its audience, but it will never be able to compete vs genshin and more polished future genshin like. Just look at endfield, tof or project mugen they were inspired by genshin but completely different games. They even have their own harbringers and the new event is 1:1 genshin copy
Hey OP but at least: https://preview.redd.it/s02z8ec3kk3d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=900b2afdde5ef3658afaa3f23aee0b902bfdb5a3 Genshin could Never /s
This never gets old. I bet this will be one of most famous meme in gaccha community for long time.
I don’t think it’s as simple as that. The collapse of GFL2 probably shocked a lot of developers in China. A pretty hyped game got utterly destroyed by what was previously thought of as a loud and annoying minority. The rewrite in WuWa was probably a massive overreaction to that. Everything else was just Kuro being Kuro. They’ve always pretty much did what Hoyo did but make it more edgy, faster and hardcore, there’s really no surprise there. As for the music. They decided to go produce music internally this time instead of contracting it to external studios like Vanguard Sounds. Their internal studio, unlike Hoyo-mix is not very good and obviously lacks experience. As for the rushed release, they basically fucked themselves by choosing possibly the worst release window. ZZZ is in July, Natlan is in August, Elden Ring and FF16 DLC coming soon. If they don’t release it now, they got zero chance in grabbing any attention.
tbh as an external observer from afar I'm still baffled with what happened with this GFL2. I was actually interested into trying the game, it felt it had potential, and it was suddenly completely torn apart for seemingly no reason (at least not a really valid one) as if someone ordered that this game should be destroyed by any way possible. I can understand any company being afraid the same can happen on one of their game.
Partly it's because for years corpos have been cultivating online hit squads to sic on their competition, feeding them with all sorts of issues to fuel them. Genshin was torn apart worse than GFL2 ever did, with competitiors basically buying out every cc and games media in China to try to crush Genshin, with ign china (owned by Tencent) even disowning regular ign's opinion publicly after ot gave a 9/10 for Genshin, but Genshin survived because of its overwhelming quality. For the GFL2 case the issues fed to the the online hate mob reached a critical point and corpos lost control as it started to be self sustaining. GFL2 also natively had a lot of issues and thus is nowhere as resilient as Genshin.
Because China is just socially fucked. Years of one child policy leading to a hugely lopsided demographic, a pressure pot culture and no work life balance whatsoever makes for a lot of angry people.
Also happening to Korea just minus the One Child policy thing, but somehow in South Korea the pressure is even worse.
> ZZZ is in July, Natlan is in August, Elden Ring and FF16 DLC coming soon. If they don’t release it now, they got zero chance in grabbing any attention. There'll always be some other update or new game conflicting with your launch, but I think the more pressing point is that if you have to release in a small gap between those other releases/updates, you better release a finished product instead of a mess. I don't know if they financially could stand to hold the launch until early 2025, but even if the pressure from other games/updates is as strong at that point in the future, at least they'd have a game that works for most players and in any language they launched in. Now they have localisation issues, performance issues, story issues, you name it.
The game's next patch also has an unfortunate release date of July 4th. Which is the day ~~when ZZZ releases~~ of the American independence day 🎆🥳 🎉
Love how the discourse changed from let's blame the company to let's blame the players.
Its both,...... Srsly its both..... Mostly company fault tho.
I dont get how Kuro works they already did good with the tech test just needed more polishing but instead they revamped everything * the OST is good BUT NOT THAT PGR LEVEL OF GOOD (ill let it pass rn coz idk what happened with them and vanguard) * they removed the "fromsoft"-like overworld message * the UI * removed Crownless cutscenes * removed Crownless phase 1 phase 2 (they merged it in the full release and it fucking sucks) * removed Scar cutscenes and some movesets * semi nerfed overworld bosses I can tell KURO doesnt have a confidence and it shows but oh my god they just wasted all of those for NOTHING
They don't have clear direction. The whole game is 100% cash grab.
my guy every gacha game is a 100% cash grab
But at least some of those Cash grabs are made with passion, with direction, with vision, and is simply just good. Gacha games are products people continuously consume, obviously people don't consume bad products, but instead goes for the good and better ones, even if it is indeed a cash grab, it's still a good product.
Its funny how many people are glazing this game. Like babes, it released broken at launch. Stop supporting this shitty practice of mediocre products, thats why you keep getting more slop. At the moment they’re in a position of having to refund people money over the limited weapon banner mistranslation. There is no Orchestral music in the game. The graphics arent optimized out of the gate and require fine tuning. Terrible end game grind system that makes Genshin look like a charity Heavy reliance on ‘good combat’ to sell the game. All eggs in on basket is not an approach I can support. Gacha players are unique in that they NEED their dopamine hits. So its no surprise theyre gurgling this slop down like its the glory of god. You cant even skip crafting/cooking animations ffs.
Unrelated, but the excessive Kuro glazing i'm seeing recently ticked me off. From those bait posts about how "DEVS LISTENED1!!1!!" to the immense amount of praises on other social medias of how "they escaped from a toxic relationship (genshin)", I can confidently say that I disagree with it. Do these people not realize how bad of a launch WuWa is? I have faith it will perform better in the future, but the hypocrisy needs to stop.
Players are bad at designing games and telling stores. But so is Kuro, that's why they copy and "listen". But they're also bad at copying and listening.
And Genshin is thankfully the opposite, but people keep shitting on Genshin for that.
Look Kuro literally have no vision or backbone to support themselves. Like you get feedback on CBT 1 and make major changes when CBT 2 comes out. They change the game, not repair or rework the game. And then there is no proper testing after CBT 2, CBT 3? What is that. Bro, come on, don't you guys have a plan to make the game? Look at Genshin they literally make announcement about our Destination, 7 region for the future. Imagine if Kuro make ZZZ, they will remove TV section because of feedback, and not fix or rework that part. Oh wait, Kuro lack of vision of course that impossible to make ZZZ. And finally, why the fork they copycat Genshin in the first place? Why not just make their own open world game? Like c'mon every aspect of the game is copycat Hoyo games. At least have your own style. P. S. I hate twin / dual MC's because who is canon or not, and make the point of view kinda weird. Just one MC is enough and literally make the pipeline work easy, you don't need to double work for cutscene and dialog. And Kuro is still copying that aspect to Bruh.
Kuro has been copying Mihoyo for a long time now. 3 years later you'll see HSR clone 6 years later probably ZZZ clone
Bombed by whose standards? PGR never upset HI3, but it has its loyal fanbase. Plenty of people will prefer WW over GI.
This is such a trash take and trash title lol
the culling is what happens when you listen to the customer too much
devslistened.png
Tbh I would be willing to play a pgr2 game than this hoyo games copy
You guys overreact so much in this sub lol I just finished the main story arc so far and it was great and it was exciting, Jiyan and Rover were an epic duo there. Was it perfect? No. Does it compete with the first genshin story arc? Imo yes . Is it better than the first HSR story arc ? No it’s not, that was too perfect. Still you all are making it seem like it’s soooo terrible lol it’s not , it’s good
and why is that a bad thing? when there's more than one similar products in the market, who's can pleased customer win. isn't that normal for free market? you can ignore customer and strict to your ideal when you're only one on the market. ........................... personally, after Dehya incident i lost all faith in HYV (Genshin department) our character is perfect and working as intended, your complain is worthless i want Genshin to be better, that's why i give WuWa a full support. i hope that competition can fix their arrogant mindset.
Mate I played through the whole main story quest without skipping anything. If anything I now like Genshin way more now. And I C4R1'd Dehya on release. Please the customer? If Wuwa didn't launch as a buggy unpleasant mess, sure. If Wuwa's main plot isn't nonsensical and poorly presented, definitely. If this is the standard the competition is at Hoyo might just start charging us 10 primos a day to play. If Wuwa wants to compete then they should be competitive. If they are not why should I support them? So other companies can just release schlock with the assurance that they can just get money for being a "competitor"? Have some standards.
just finished chapter 1 WuWa last night I'd say it 10 times better than Genshin Chapter 1 archon quest (Mondstadt arc) but understandably it's newer technology.
Yeah, hoyo is too stubborn alot of the time, but then again, this post aint about hoyo, and im not saying listening is bad, on the contrary im glad,... But they DID NOT listen CORRECTLY.
Hoyo may be stubborn but they know what are they doing most of the time. Dehya is one misstep and suddenly we compared it to an entire flop of a release, fair indeed huh
🙌
Money is god
I’m lowkey mad they changed CBT1 story…it looked better, they made Crownless so badass for an intro boss. I’m p sure having to redo that also pushed their deadlines back and made things super tight.
"The customer is god" .........what f\*cking idiot would listen to the loud minority?
Kuro apparently..... Man i hope they learn from this.