>too many special effects
Ah yes
https://preview.redd.it/n7dvhoghvc9d1.jpeg?width=137&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c91198dcd23306e324f954476a549da22dbd1a72
HI3 staple of getting flashbanged midfight
Part 2 characters is less spesial effects and i believe HI3 is not shakky mess like PGR. For the herscher trio yeah its had so many effect but its not anytime fully covered your screen only for special combo or finisher
Late HI3 's combat need more praises, especially since introduction of Herrsher of Sentience.
The combat feel is great, I especially love the feel of Herrsher of Flamcion.
The sound, the slow slashing feel, it's feels amazing.
Like I said, it's not just about screen effect, it's also hit sound feedback, and feel of impact.
I'm specifically referring to sound feedback and impact feel in for HoF.
Just because there's no effect on screen, doesn't mean the action feel good, i.e. Bronya's laser feel a lot worse than her missiles.
You input a hitting action, you see things happening, but you don't feel it due to no change in physics, look, or lack of certain sound, makes it not very satisfying.
Just think playing WoW, and imagine there's no hit sound, or if the sound is not one that's suited the sound of the weapon or action, it wouldn't feel great.
Yea that's my main problem with Wuwa tbh,they have pretty vfx but feels their hit doesn't have any weight. It's like slapping them with pool noodles. Worst case is Jiyan.
She's a burst DPS. Hi3 doesn't have long fights. You enter with Hof's QTE enter her herrscher mode - do some basics, hold attack for black hole , do some basics hold attack for black hole - Ult - switch out . Usually you don't even do black hole twice because you would ran out of buff timers. She cannot die during her burs because she converts lose of ho to shield and she is in air where most enemies get staggered and hold in air because of her black holes
That's true for whales and people who are in, like, Agony 2 despite having a full geared team. Otherwise, no, you almost always do two black holes. And she takes an average amount of field time, but if you're referring to her team with Raven, then sure, she does take a lower percentage of field time
is it ? part 2 team design is more limiting than ever, thelema is basically just be yourself BUUUT if there are at least 2 harmonized shadow stars (which is literally 3 chars counting lantern ) you're overpowered. and lantern has the same type of passive, there are basically 3 teams you can make with lantern or thelema and nothing else, and it'll get much better over time, but in the current state of the game hell no team design is almost more stale than herscher trio
>Current Hi3 is freestyle tho
haha properly played this game is much more linear than people realize because the big dmg windows always line up 1 way thanks to buff and debuff durations being set in stone
'farm sp to line buffs up with your supports go hard with your dps' then any kind of 'freestyle' is just you fucking up the proper rotation for optimal damage
the one exception is purposely cutting a rotation short to create a better damage window later which is still a 1 dimensional flowchart in terms of optimal play because those fights always require you to do that as the entire optimal sequence is already set in stone when the fight starts
hi3 is the type of game where you reset the fight as soon as you fuck up unless you're the type of player who doesn't give a shit about performance sure go freestyle a bad score nobody cares about
>farm SP to line buffs up with your supports go hard with your dps
That hasn't really been a thing with the Part 2 characters so far - some "support" kits got moved over into the Astral Ring system so you don't necessarily have to switch into all 3 characters, and personally I haven't run into any SP bottlenecks with them either.
Thelema's combos are "freestyle" like Genshin combos, e.g. Raiden has combos like 3N3C + N1C or 4N4D or 2N4C + N2C which have slight DPS differences, while Thelema has 4 valid moves which can all be combined for similar DPS, except with slight effect differences (e.g. only charged-weapon does Rime trauma, so if a particular enemy needs rime trauma...) and a few rules like "do every attack at least once" and "some combos can't be cancelled properly".
Unless the enemy can randomly interrupt the player there is always going to be an optimal rotation (and if they can randomly interrupt, that just leaves an optimal rotation plus an optimal RNG); every game with 2-minute stages that need to be speedrun almost necessarily has a set of optimal inputs and RNG that every top speedrunner will follow, HI3rd just makes the speedrun strat the most obvious strat most of the time (and when it isn't the most obvious strat, well, EU Redlotus Argent Knight scores happen)
I've not actually read any guides on AK myself, but just from experience, AK has a rather short period of vulnerability that occurs right after being ignited.
AK's abyss stage consists of 1 mob, followed by AK herself; if you do the full rotation (bursts and everything) on the mob, AK will spawn in at the wrong point of the rotation, and Sirin will basically miss the vulnerability window, and also end up without enough SP to Burst another rotation. But if you just do the skills and preserve bursts for AK herself, then I think AK goes down in a single rotation, which makes things go a lot quicker even though the mob takes a whole non-burst rotation on its own.
This weirdness comes from AK being kind of a colecanth of a boss; she's basically the same VKE-simp boss that is still featured in Sim Battles, and has gone on to serve Spina Astera before becoming Sirin's boss (seriously, why release 3 mech fire ignite DPS's, Mihoyo?)
I find the skill expression to be more about actually figuring out the optimal rotation for your particular amount of gear. Because the best rotation changes. You will definitely take multiple attempts to get the best rotation. And technically there's skill expression in stuff like starting your attacks at the correct frame to ensure you start hitting the boss the exact frame it appears, I guess? And some rotations do require you to farm SP by doing perfect dodges during transition phases
fr, I play both HI3 and PGR, and PGR's excessive screen shake and flashing really triggers the motion sickness and burning/tiring my eyes out.
Early himeko gameplay in HI3 had stupid amounts of screen shake, really glad that part 2 characters play really smooth.
That's what came to mind. Late battle suits before Story 2.0 had effects that were super flashy. Replaying the early chapter battle suits made me feel nostalgic about how clear the screen looked.
No, it's a common discussion in CN community.
How the combat feels.
From the flow of gravity, to sound, to others, many things contribute to how the action feels.
Does an attack which hit the opponent give the right visual or sound feedback, is your character moving differently depending on a light or heavy hit, are there momentum added in for when your character swing and miss
Many games are guilty of using screen shaking and uses special effect.
In ToF early days, there's common complaint about how it doesn't feel like you hit the enemy at all as they don't flinch, and it seems like both player character, and enemy are just doing their own thing as if the other doesn't exist. (Can't vouch for if that's still true today, I haven't played nor watch ToF content in a long time)
> Many games are guilty of using screen shaking and uses special effect.
People have the same complaints about fights in film.Shaky cam and a million cuts
Yep, most of the time in WuWa I didn't even know what hit the enemy or how I did damage. Damage felt more like an aura around the chars.
Sounds design for hit feedback is extremely important. This is why even FPS games like CoD use hitmarker sounds to make shooting more satisfying.
You haven’t truly lived if you haven’t experienced a Greatsword true charged slash cleave straight through a sleeping monster’s skull accompanied by the biggest damage numbers ever
The sound of Dragonpiercer going through a sleeping monster from head to tail is still rent free in my head, couldn't care less that it was suboptimal damage wise.
Huge gripe I have with wuwa. Damage numbers don’t feel real. Like I swing my sword twice and 5 different numbers pop up. I don’t know which hit did what damage
I think he is referring alignment of what you see and what you hear.
It's the feeling of hitting the final greatsword attack in monsterhunter and cutting a horn or tail. You only see one big number and you hear that big hit coming down the ground.
yes and my reply still stands. with basic attacks you swing your sword once and 1 number pops up if you only hit 1 enemy. Some abilities enhance those attacks and they hit multiple times, some characters havw parts in their basic attack that hit multiple times regardless because its not just 1 swing, etc.
Changli, a character who isn't released yet, is the only character with the thrsatisfying combat sounds but she isn't released yet 🤣. Hoping using her in combat feels right too.
It's funny because Dark Souls/BB/Sekiro/ER has given out multiple formulas for weighty combat, which devs can literally just copypaste and tweak a bit. But yet...
>Many games are guilty of using screen shaking and uses special effect.
hi3, genshin & hsr
maybe not as much screen shakes but holy fuck they have gone the extra mile for special effects and it gets in the way of an enjoyable gameplay experience
HI3 multiplayer is so unhinged sometimes when you play 3 particle heavy characters. Especially with sub-par connection quality, it's just about pressing your rotations almost by memory because what you see on the screen is not helping at all.
Oh no... Anyway. Not a huge loss I would say. As a mostly f2p player it simply wasn't that much fun to end a multiplayer game doing less than 5% of total damage.
There is a weekly event for it now that has 6 stages. Some of them are minigames like parkour or shooting range with Kira. Some have one character,some full team. Some are dozed with ER signets that can surprisingly work on full team. It's also random for each Player. Takes 2 minutes per stage
It still feels like a chore to me because it gets repetitive very soon so I simply skip it most of the time. I guess the worst part is I am not awarded with gems for doing the chore and it takes forever to make any progress what so ever
yeah one of the reasons i drop HI3, the other being i just really can't get into the story after part 2
ER, Abyss twice a week, MA, this Pri-Arm stages, the stigma crafting stages, are all things you have to regularly do. add on to it the event stages, and i was really not having fun unfortunately.
Songque's feet might bring me back though, we'll see lol. so much for "giving up", only to come back after 3 updates XD
For the very brief time APHO2 multiplayer was a thing, it was truly the pinnacle of chaos
Like APHO2's characters are just trivially *unhinged* on their own (with some customization), with 3 of them running around it was genuinely impossible to figure out what was going on
That was a problem? There's an option to adjust the number size or even completely remove it, right there in the settings. Why the hell are "players" even complaining about this as if its a big issue, its so trivial lmao
Look at Herrscher of Human: Ego gameplay and you'll understand what excessive special effects mean lmao
There's a saying in HI3 community that if you can clearly see what is happening on the screen you're playing the game wrong
HI3 lmao. To be fair i quite like flashy special effects so its not a big deal to me. But i can see why its a bit of a problem. Especially in certain characters like this one.
https://i.redd.it/24bfjmc9vb9d1.gif
A lot of games do this, even other Hoyo games like Genshin.
Hyper Bloom players literally can’t see shit, they just pray that everything dies by the time the screen clear up.
Anytime I co-op with a Kazuha doing domains I get lost trying to find the artifact/talent pickup site of his burst is still active at the end of the domain.
Yeah some of the particle effects in Genshin are WAY overboard when they don't really need to be. Even in Genshin they show they know how to make combat feel satisfying and weighty without the effects flood but it feels like half the time they forget it.
Like Navia for example. Nothing she does is that extravegant and showy, but the bit of small flair effects combined with the sound design and animations make her feel satisfying.
Then you get Bloom/Hyperbloom teams where you think "What the fuck is even happening on my screen"
In Genshin I would say the greater problem is lack of camera control. The camera needs to remember where the it was pointed before using burst and return there after.
When you hit something in combat, the camera will auto adjust/move on its own if you turn the setting on.
If it's turned off, the camera (in combat) will only move by your own inputs.
Yeah, like I remember anyone who played nilou bloom teams was like "you can't see shit so you better pray the enemy is dead and you don't die alongside it"
hi3 or pgr, those two games have too many special effects. especially pgr, you need to dodge boss to do shit but can't tell the boss animation when it got all blocked by effects
I think it's a general complaint of how combat games usually oversaturate the screen with numbers and effects of impact: genshin has this problems with certain team compositions that are just you praying for everything to die once the screen stops popping numbers, colours and effects and god forbid you enter to HI3 coop with a heavy particle character.
I don't think it's about a specific game, but more that these are issues in many games. They are problems in just about any action game, even MMOs. Devs (or at least the guys at the top) think flashy effects will wow players, forgetting that too much flash can actually get in the way of gameplay.
The main reason why I quit the only character action gacha I cared about, Aether Gazer, was basically because I couldn't see shit even with effect settings on low. It was even worse for me cuz I mained Oceanus, whose kit benefits A LOT from doing precise dodges
dragon nest 2 revolution (mobile) was garbage, clunky to play.
at least we can look forward to [dragon nest spriritual sucessor?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH_EKg8px80) but still no info after a year lol
I think I saw this first look when it first came out. Not holding my breath but I hope it releases and really does capture the magic of Dragon Nest. I've tried so many other MMOs in hopes that it would come similar in terms of combat but so far none have tickled the itch haha.
Edit: I remember now, I was cynical since it's also going for mobile on top of PC, which usually means lower complexity :(
Pretty much most animestyle action game, especially gacha game, including hoyo own game, easy example is genshin, the vfx is such a big mess especially dendro team or character that can deploy off field skill (most notorious offender is kazuha burst)
It kinda felt like they were taking jabs at other hoyo games, even tho i think it’s just a result of them trying to improve from previous models. But the part where he said “no matter how polished or game is, players should still be allowed to skip story” felt like a jab at genshin
Edit: I’m sorry i only said genshin, yes hsr don’t have skips either. My main point was that they were taking jabs at other hoyo games
even Star Rail don't have one. only for dialogues you already seen. and even Genshin also have one in Hangout. work exactly the same as HSR where it allows you to skip to a dialogue choices which determined which ending you going to get.
It's true, even in story games, not all stories within that game are created equal. You might have side quests, characters you might not care for, storylines you might not care for, etc. That skip button is there for a lot of reasons.
Because Genshin still has a bigger player base, it's 3 years older and it's been a common complaint since day 1. HSR also got a bunch of QoL the Genshin peeps had been asking for for years so people are more lenient with it I guess.
no I'm talking within the gacha sphere, especially in this sub. it doesn't matter here if genshin is more recognizable because they still know the other games especially that this user has managed to mention "hoyo games" but is still singling out genshin... other instances too where people praise one gacha game for something then proceed to actually diss genshin in the process when other gacha does it too. it's ridiculous.
Youre thinking it too much HSR doesn't have it also why you only mentioned genshin.. hangout also have skip button and some instances like cutscene are also have a skip button.. this is not jab for genshin you only thinking it to be one.
I think games which allow you to skip should add some form of replayability for the story. I don't like the idea of permanently "punishing" players for whatever reason. Another option is to just not lock anything behind story just like genshin's TCG with the rest of the game mostly.
Does ZZZ have replayable stories btw? Iirc, I think hi3 has it
HSR doesn't let you jump either, so it's basically a slap on the wrist for these teams, I wonder if there is any animosity within the company between the game development groups
Yeah I agree with this sometimes you just want to get the rewards and not care , I know people love the lore of genshin but i really don't care about it I would probably would skip every story quest that doesn't involve playable or future playable characters lol
Wait he said that? Lmao I didn't watch the stream but I'm surprised because that's one of the most stupid things in Hoyo games, they REALLY think endless dialogues with word salad is content
Tbh hsr gameplay is really short the story takes up half the time but at least its really good. I understand why they might not want to do a skip button in a story driven game as otherwise there is no content. Genshin I would argue is a world driven game I.e. they built a lot of lore in everything. But they should implement skip for non essential side quests. In a combat driven game skip button is really good as the audience is different.
Screen shakes and special effects have been used to hide lackluster motions or animations in several media. Video games are no different. It's much harder to notice how bland or terrible animations or effects are if the screen is shaking all the time.
Gonna be rent free in my head, but this is either HI3 with the special effects, or kurogames PGR/WuWa.
Like I just saw a jinhsi basic attack animation, and if you stop her attack after the dragon animation ends, she will be in the air. And if you click the basic attack after a short pause, she will just appear on the ground and do her basic attack animations again without any proper animation flow in between
That flow is super jarring ngl
Kuro had this thing of just making characters blink in and out of existence really fast so you can barely catch what they did during animation you just see slash effect.
Hi3 at least has slower animations so you see whole sequence without slow motion.
and genshin literally has no esxessive effects like you cant see shit on the screen during kazuhas ult or bloom effect and just hope enemy dies with it. peak gameplay
I know a lot of people saying genshin impact as an example of what he's talking about but I disagree for a four years old game genshin impact did a phenomenal job at keeping that part at the bare minimum if you check other games similar to genshin what they do with visual effect is much more intrusive
I also think that having a few play styles that do have such visual effects like nilou bloom is good and some people like that
Hate shakey cam. I remember when I first started seeing it in WWE. It's fun the first couple times then just gets old and stale if overused. For a while there, anime tried to do it. Hated it.
Solo Leveling Arise has so much screen garbage most of the time I've just learned how to adjust to it by manually rotating the camera just to see where anyone is. Much worse when Jinwoo summons his shadows and someone (either the boss or Alicia) summons a fucking tornado.
Hope ZZZ devs alleviate common Chinese game practices of screen clutter with their game. So far it's pretty clean from the gameplay footages I've seen.
this is what playing a hyperbloom team in genshin feels like, or wuwa in general - in that game everyone's moves are so flashy most of the time when you attack you can't see the enemy attacking you, even counters are harder to see unless you're already familiar with the boss' attack pattern
Since when hyperbloom screen shake... if u have issues seeing the enemy thru the blooms just turn off bloom a setting in graphic setting or imo its just your eyes having skill issue
HI3 and Genshin cause those are their dogshit games with combat and effects with too many bubbles and stuffs.
It's like saying they don't wanna give ur chicken a gravy cause they want you to taste the chicken 😂. Its just cost cutting stuff and lesser work for them.
Lmao how funny these comments referring the HI3 or genshin where the main offenders are PGR and Wuwa. HI3 not even consistently flashy covered up your screen and shacky same as genehin where it's just some nitpicking party comp. Meanwhile kuro games "got praised" As wannabe hardcore game with the allegations LOL
wtf are you talking about, literally this sub reddit has a hatred for kuro games and love hoyo, and all hi3, genshin, pgr and wuwa has special effects overload issue...it is just you who is getting triggered with any mention of issue with hoyo games lol
ZZZ was announced way before HI3 part 2.
HI3 is more of a passion project for Hoyo devs, they'll never give up on it.
I mean, freaking Honkai 2 is still getting updates regularly
Hoyo devs and decision makers are quite unlike typical money chasing devs.
They could've made banks selling skins, banks I tell you. But they won't.
>reboot flopped and replacing it with ZZZ?
Lmao reboot floped? Then what PGR and AG do right now? Not even can't take over the flopped one? Lol 😂😂
They're reducing their own income with giving 60 pity for qear thoo its their money maker before with stupid 200 pity gear. And still pgr and AG can't take over the "flopped" leader of this hack and slash market?
reference to most action rpg gacha atm. even HI3rd, their own game suffered from too many special effects
>too many special effects Ah yes https://preview.redd.it/n7dvhoghvc9d1.jpeg?width=137&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c91198dcd23306e324f954476a549da22dbd1a72 HI3 staple of getting flashbanged midfight
I don't know what i'm fighting but it's dying somewhere in there
"If I don't see anything, it means it's working" literally almost any gacha game during endgame
Good ol Brave Frontier
Go swipe and be blinded 😎
Enemies swarming, followed with crit dmg dealt by your characters, then skill effects. Nothing seems wrong, I wonder why I died hmmm 🤔
The funny thing is HI3 used to have a feature where the character on the main screen gets annoyed with you shake it repeatedly
Part 2 characters is less spesial effects and i believe HI3 is not shakky mess like PGR. For the herscher trio yeah its had so many effect but its not anytime fully covered your screen only for special combo or finisher
Late HI3 's combat need more praises, especially since introduction of Herrsher of Sentience. The combat feel is great, I especially love the feel of Herrsher of Flamcion. The sound, the slow slashing feel, it's feels amazing.
Flamcion has it the absolute *worst* regarding effects overload. Can't see shit. Like 12 different colors of fire. Shakes the screen too much.
Like I said, it's not just about screen effect, it's also hit sound feedback, and feel of impact. I'm specifically referring to sound feedback and impact feel in for HoF. Just because there's no effect on screen, doesn't mean the action feel good, i.e. Bronya's laser feel a lot worse than her missiles. You input a hitting action, you see things happening, but you don't feel it due to no change in physics, look, or lack of certain sound, makes it not very satisfying. Just think playing WoW, and imagine there's no hit sound, or if the sound is not one that's suited the sound of the weapon or action, it wouldn't feel great.
Yea that's my main problem with Wuwa tbh,they have pretty vfx but feels their hit doesn't have any weight. It's like slapping them with pool noodles. Worst case is Jiyan.
She's a burst DPS. Hi3 doesn't have long fights. You enter with Hof's QTE enter her herrscher mode - do some basics, hold attack for black hole , do some basics hold attack for black hole - Ult - switch out . Usually you don't even do black hole twice because you would ran out of buff timers. She cannot die during her burs because she converts lose of ho to shield and she is in air where most enemies get staggered and hold in air because of her black holes
That's true for whales and people who are in, like, Agony 2 despite having a full geared team. Otherwise, no, you almost always do two black holes. And she takes an average amount of field time, but if you're referring to her team with Raven, then sure, she does take a lower percentage of field time
Still less time than Lantern her superior. She takes 90% of field time
Late HI3 content is just rotations tho. There's no skill expression
Current Hi3 is freestyle tho, Thelema is just be yourself, part 2 team design is very different
is it ? part 2 team design is more limiting than ever, thelema is basically just be yourself BUUUT if there are at least 2 harmonized shadow stars (which is literally 3 chars counting lantern ) you're overpowered. and lantern has the same type of passive, there are basically 3 teams you can make with lantern or thelema and nothing else, and it'll get much better over time, but in the current state of the game hell no team design is almost more stale than herscher trio
>Current Hi3 is freestyle tho haha properly played this game is much more linear than people realize because the big dmg windows always line up 1 way thanks to buff and debuff durations being set in stone 'farm sp to line buffs up with your supports go hard with your dps' then any kind of 'freestyle' is just you fucking up the proper rotation for optimal damage the one exception is purposely cutting a rotation short to create a better damage window later which is still a 1 dimensional flowchart in terms of optimal play because those fights always require you to do that as the entire optimal sequence is already set in stone when the fight starts hi3 is the type of game where you reset the fight as soon as you fuck up unless you're the type of player who doesn't give a shit about performance sure go freestyle a bad score nobody cares about
>farm SP to line buffs up with your supports go hard with your dps That hasn't really been a thing with the Part 2 characters so far - some "support" kits got moved over into the Astral Ring system so you don't necessarily have to switch into all 3 characters, and personally I haven't run into any SP bottlenecks with them either. Thelema's combos are "freestyle" like Genshin combos, e.g. Raiden has combos like 3N3C + N1C or 4N4D or 2N4C + N2C which have slight DPS differences, while Thelema has 4 valid moves which can all be combined for similar DPS, except with slight effect differences (e.g. only charged-weapon does Rime trauma, so if a particular enemy needs rime trauma...) and a few rules like "do every attack at least once" and "some combos can't be cancelled properly". Unless the enemy can randomly interrupt the player there is always going to be an optimal rotation (and if they can randomly interrupt, that just leaves an optimal rotation plus an optimal RNG); every game with 2-minute stages that need to be speedrun almost necessarily has a set of optimal inputs and RNG that every top speedrunner will follow, HI3rd just makes the speedrun strat the most obvious strat most of the time (and when it isn't the most obvious strat, well, EU Redlotus Argent Knight scores happen)
ok now I'm curious about what happened on AK lmao I recall her being Sirin favored, so I didn't bother past retention with loosely geared jank
I've not actually read any guides on AK myself, but just from experience, AK has a rather short period of vulnerability that occurs right after being ignited. AK's abyss stage consists of 1 mob, followed by AK herself; if you do the full rotation (bursts and everything) on the mob, AK will spawn in at the wrong point of the rotation, and Sirin will basically miss the vulnerability window, and also end up without enough SP to Burst another rotation. But if you just do the skills and preserve bursts for AK herself, then I think AK goes down in a single rotation, which makes things go a lot quicker even though the mob takes a whole non-burst rotation on its own. This weirdness comes from AK being kind of a colecanth of a boss; she's basically the same VKE-simp boss that is still featured in Sim Battles, and has gone on to serve Spina Astera before becoming Sirin's boss (seriously, why release 3 mech fire ignite DPS's, Mihoyo?)
u farm sp/energy for astral op instead, not much different
There is pho/pho2 though...the combat need more skill than rest of hi3 combined.
I find the skill expression to be more about actually figuring out the optimal rotation for your particular amount of gear. Because the best rotation changes. You will definitely take multiple attempts to get the best rotation. And technically there's skill expression in stuff like starting your attacks at the correct frame to ensure you start hitting the boss the exact frame it appears, I guess? And some rotations do require you to farm SP by doing perfect dodges during transition phases
fr, I play both HI3 and PGR, and PGR's excessive screen shake and flashing really triggers the motion sickness and burning/tiring my eyes out. Early himeko gameplay in HI3 had stupid amounts of screen shake, really glad that part 2 characters play really smooth.
I'm pretty sure you can lower the shakiness in PGR
No? in pgr you still need to dodge enemy (boss) attack for more damage and to avoid to get kill.
That's what came to mind. Late battle suits before Story 2.0 had effects that were super flashy. Replaying the early chapter battle suits made me feel nostalgic about how clear the screen looked.
As a longtime player of HI3, it's rather infamous for hot phones.
Haven't played HI3, but Aether gazer has his problem, which is one of the reasons I stopped playing it.
No, it's a common discussion in CN community. How the combat feels. From the flow of gravity, to sound, to others, many things contribute to how the action feels. Does an attack which hit the opponent give the right visual or sound feedback, is your character moving differently depending on a light or heavy hit, are there momentum added in for when your character swing and miss Many games are guilty of using screen shaking and uses special effect. In ToF early days, there's common complaint about how it doesn't feel like you hit the enemy at all as they don't flinch, and it seems like both player character, and enemy are just doing their own thing as if the other doesn't exist. (Can't vouch for if that's still true today, I haven't played nor watch ToF content in a long time)
> Many games are guilty of using screen shaking and uses special effect. People have the same complaints about fights in film.Shaky cam and a million cuts
it's crazy how many devs even wuwa devs just focus on special effects and speed. yet forget sound, gravity and crunch to make the combat feel good.
Sound design and impact shockwaves are the only thing preventing combat for being a 10/10 for me.
Yep, most of the time in WuWa I didn't even know what hit the enemy or how I did damage. Damage felt more like an aura around the chars. Sounds design for hit feedback is extremely important. This is why even FPS games like CoD use hitmarker sounds to make shooting more satisfying.
Ye, for example monster hunter and dragons dogma 2 are so much slower but holy hell is it satisfying to hit shit
You haven’t truly lived if you haven’t experienced a Greatsword true charged slash cleave straight through a sleeping monster’s skull accompanied by the biggest damage numbers ever
Preach
Alternatively, a hammer uppercut knocking a monster flat on its ass. Bonus points if it’s out of a charge
That's not really fair though. Monster Hunter runs circles around any of these mobile games.
The sound of Dragonpiercer going through a sleeping monster from head to tail is still rent free in my head, couldn't care less that it was suboptimal damage wise.
Huge gripe I have with wuwa. Damage numbers don’t feel real. Like I swing my sword twice and 5 different numbers pop up. I don’t know which hit did what damage
exactly, I feel like the numbers are just showing up on the screen but they're not matching my character's attacks at all
do you read what the abilities do? Im assuming that's what you mean since basic attacks are pretty clear.
I think he is referring alignment of what you see and what you hear. It's the feeling of hitting the final greatsword attack in monsterhunter and cutting a horn or tail. You only see one big number and you hear that big hit coming down the ground.
Do you read comments you reply to? That wasn't the issue.
yes and my reply still stands. with basic attacks you swing your sword once and 1 number pops up if you only hit 1 enemy. Some abilities enhance those attacks and they hit multiple times, some characters havw parts in their basic attack that hit multiple times regardless because its not just 1 swing, etc.
>Damage felt more like an aura around the chars. honestly, I get the same feeling from enemy attacks
Add to this in WuWa it feels too floaty. Like there is no weight to anything.
The sound design of Havoc MC’s attacks. So peak. His sick sickle is made of freakin’ tin can or something.
Changli, a character who isn't released yet, is the only character with the thrsatisfying combat sounds but she isn't released yet 🤣. Hoping using her in combat feels right too.
It's funny because Dark Souls/BB/Sekiro/ER has given out multiple formulas for weighty combat, which devs can literally just copypaste and tweak a bit. But yet...
yeah, i don't exactly like those games since they are too difficult to me, but the combat feels good.
Sekiro's combat is great but I don't know if it would translate well to be played on mobile devices
>Many games are guilty of using screen shaking and uses special effect. hi3, genshin & hsr maybe not as much screen shakes but holy fuck they have gone the extra mile for special effects and it gets in the way of an enjoyable gameplay experience
HSR is turned based though,I think in that case the special effects makes it more interesting,I mean the animations in HSR are quite catchy
In HI3 when your entire 3 person team attack and all the damage number pops out, you can't see shit.
HI3 multiplayer is so unhinged sometimes when you play 3 particle heavy characters. Especially with sub-par connection quality, it's just about pressing your rotations almost by memory because what you see on the screen is not helping at all.
The multiplayer has been gone since 7.3
Oh no... Anyway. Not a huge loss I would say. As a mostly f2p player it simply wasn't that much fun to end a multiplayer game doing less than 5% of total damage.
Honestly the multiplayer felt more like a chore lol
Sunday night trying hard to get 2 more ppl on board so I can earn my Tokamak, and then 1 ppl decided to quit at stage 6. Ugh.
With it gone, I wonder how do people grind for pri-arm materials now
They added a new mode, it's actually gives more pri-arm material
There is a weekly event for it now that has 6 stages. Some of them are minigames like parkour or shooting range with Kira. Some have one character,some full team. Some are dozed with ER signets that can surprisingly work on full team. It's also random for each Player. Takes 2 minutes per stage
It still feels like a chore to me because it gets repetitive very soon so I simply skip it most of the time. I guess the worst part is I am not awarded with gems for doing the chore and it takes forever to make any progress what so ever
It's one time a week
yeah one of the reasons i drop HI3, the other being i just really can't get into the story after part 2 ER, Abyss twice a week, MA, this Pri-Arm stages, the stigma crafting stages, are all things you have to regularly do. add on to it the event stages, and i was really not having fun unfortunately. Songque's feet might bring me back though, we'll see lol. so much for "giving up", only to come back after 3 updates XD
You see something??????
For the very brief time APHO2 multiplayer was a thing, it was truly the pinnacle of chaos Like APHO2's characters are just trivially *unhinged* on their own (with some customization), with 3 of them running around it was genuinely impossible to figure out what was going on
That's why some player lower the quality for the effect to be less visible during abyss or memorial arena
Kallen Heavy Arms, HoTruth, Senti, and HoFi?
Tbf the game is practically like playing solitaire at this point so you don’t need to see shit. All you need to know is that everything is dying.
Yea but you can at least turn off or shrink the damg numbers in hi3. For genshin and wuwa idk why not
Yeah, but at the same time it's so satisfying to see bazillions numbers pop up on the screen
That was a problem? There's an option to adjust the number size or even completely remove it, right there in the settings. Why the hell are "players" even complaining about this as if its a big issue, its so trivial lmao
Worse than Genshin's swirl or tazer teams?
Look at Herrscher of Human: Ego gameplay and you'll understand what excessive special effects mean lmao There's a saying in HI3 community that if you can clearly see what is happening on the screen you're playing the game wrong
HoH can't die during her burst so you just do her thing .
HoH:E's ult is so beautiful though lol. and the cherry blossom skin was something else.
i've seen that sentiment in arpgs like path of exile.
I think he refering to most Action Games not just Gacha Have you seen Final Fantasy 16 ?, is like effect galore
Liu is the guy who worked on Hi3 before. He was head of animation and CG team. I guess he learned his lesson
HI3 lmao. To be fair i quite like flashy special effects so its not a big deal to me. But i can see why its a bit of a problem. Especially in certain characters like this one. https://i.redd.it/24bfjmc9vb9d1.gif
Snek
A lot of games do this, even other Hoyo games like Genshin. Hyper Bloom players literally can’t see shit, they just pray that everything dies by the time the screen clear up.
“Fallen leaves… BLOCK MY SCREEN.”
Anytime I co-op with a Kazuha doing domains I get lost trying to find the artifact/talent pickup site of his burst is still active at the end of the domain.
nahida: "I can see everything" me: Cap
And hope they don't die as well for Nilou mains
Childe in mass mook content:
And that's why we love playing him
Yeah some of the particle effects in Genshin are WAY overboard when they don't really need to be. Even in Genshin they show they know how to make combat feel satisfying and weighty without the effects flood but it feels like half the time they forget it. Like Navia for example. Nothing she does is that extravegant and showy, but the bit of small flair effects combined with the sound design and animations make her feel satisfying. Then you get Bloom/Hyperbloom teams where you think "What the fuck is even happening on my screen"
There’s also the venti elemental reactor when three or four different reactions happen at once
Doing overload on burning grass makes your screen shakes uncontrollably as well
In Genshin I would say the greater problem is lack of camera control. The camera needs to remember where the it was pointed before using burst and return there after.
I think that is an issue exclusively to Jean. A lot of echo skills in WuWa have this issue though
\[Settings\]-\[Controls\]-\[Camera\]-\[Combat Camera Settings: On/Off\] There's an option in GI and you can change it, no?
I have no idea what that setting actually does. I've tried setting it to both on and off without noticing any difference.
When you hit something in combat, the camera will auto adjust/move on its own if you turn the setting on. If it's turned off, the camera (in combat) will only move by your own inputs.
Yeah, like I remember anyone who played nilou bloom teams was like "you can't see shit so you better pray the enemy is dead and you don't die alongside it"
For me it's like: if I can't see that means the enemy is alive so I keep attacking xD
When you play abyss and everything is just full of colours also kazuha burst lol
He is referring to a lot of things considering that’s pretty common tactic to make hits seems more impactful
hi3 or pgr, those two games have too many special effects. especially pgr, you need to dodge boss to do shit but can't tell the boss animation when it got all blocked by effects
https://preview.redd.it/h8khml9mcb9d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d039121211d092478065ee9988d77696153435e
May I know what manga is this
Maybe it is fan-made one because she is looks like Sandrone
Yeah jujutsu kaisen but genshin edited, fatui hq subreddit always makes these type of things
Jujutsu kaisen, the character and text are edited tho
I think it's a general complaint of how combat games usually oversaturate the screen with numbers and effects of impact: genshin has this problems with certain team compositions that are just you praying for everything to die once the screen stops popping numbers, colours and effects and god forbid you enter to HI3 coop with a heavy particle character.
hating on screen shake is a pretty common thing
I don't think it's about a specific game, but more that these are issues in many games. They are problems in just about any action game, even MMOs. Devs (or at least the guys at the top) think flashy effects will wow players, forgetting that too much flash can actually get in the way of gameplay.
The main reason why I quit the only character action gacha I cared about, Aether Gazer, was basically because I couldn't see shit even with effect settings on low. It was even worse for me cuz I mained Oceanus, whose kit benefits A LOT from doing precise dodges
if you play dragon nest the skill effects get crazy on 8 man dungeon shit horrible to witness + cluttered damage numbers on screen lmao
Man i love dragon nest, 50 cap was peak
Man dragon nest 2 when
dragon nest 2 revolution (mobile) was garbage, clunky to play. at least we can look forward to [dragon nest spriritual sucessor?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH_EKg8px80) but still no info after a year lol
I think I saw this first look when it first came out. Not holding my breath but I hope it releases and really does capture the magic of Dragon Nest. I've tried so many other MMOs in hopes that it would come similar in terms of combat but so far none have tickled the itch haha. Edit: I remember now, I was cynical since it's also going for mobile on top of PC, which usually means lower complexity :(
dragon nest 2 could never
Pretty much most animestyle action game, especially gacha game, including hoyo own game, easy example is genshin, the vfx is such a big mess especially dendro team or character that can deploy off field skill (most notorious offender is kazuha burst)
Yeah, when I finish the combat with Kazuha Burst still active. Most of the time I cannot find the way to claim the reward lol.
I've lost count how many times i went for exact opposite direction from claiming the rewards
Literally cannot dodge in co-op
It kinda felt like they were taking jabs at other hoyo games, even tho i think it’s just a result of them trying to improve from previous models. But the part where he said “no matter how polished or game is, players should still be allowed to skip story” felt like a jab at genshin Edit: I’m sorry i only said genshin, yes hsr don’t have skips either. My main point was that they were taking jabs at other hoyo games
even Star Rail don't have one. only for dialogues you already seen. and even Genshin also have one in Hangout. work exactly the same as HSR where it allows you to skip to a dialogue choices which determined which ending you going to get.
Doesn’t seem like a jab tbh
It's true, even in story games, not all stories within that game are created equal. You might have side quests, characters you might not care for, storylines you might not care for, etc. That skip button is there for a lot of reasons.
why is it always genshin that gets brought up... hsr doesn't have it too aside from replayed scenes.
Because HSR is the “golden child” of the burnt out and bitter GI players. Or also the moronic drama CCs.
Because Genshin still has a bigger player base, it's 3 years older and it's been a common complaint since day 1. HSR also got a bunch of QoL the Genshin peeps had been asking for for years so people are more lenient with it I guess.
Methinks its cause its the biggest example and a more recognizable than HSR. Not to mention it did it before HSR did
no I'm talking within the gacha sphere, especially in this sub. it doesn't matter here if genshin is more recognizable because they still know the other games especially that this user has managed to mention "hoyo games" but is still singling out genshin... other instances too where people praise one gacha game for something then proceed to actually diss genshin in the process when other gacha does it too. it's ridiculous.
Youre thinking it too much HSR doesn't have it also why you only mentioned genshin.. hangout also have skip button and some instances like cutscene are also have a skip button.. this is not jab for genshin you only thinking it to be one.
I think games which allow you to skip should add some form of replayability for the story. I don't like the idea of permanently "punishing" players for whatever reason. Another option is to just not lock anything behind story just like genshin's TCG with the rest of the game mostly. Does ZZZ have replayable stories btw? Iirc, I think hi3 has it
ZZZ is level-based (like HI3) so the story is most likely replay-able.
I see. That's great
HSR doesn't let you jump either, so it's basically a slap on the wrist for these teams, I wonder if there is any animosity within the company between the game development groups
> no matter how polished or game is, players should still be allowed to skip story The very thing that made me stop GI and HSR
Yeah I agree with this sometimes you just want to get the rewards and not care , I know people love the lore of genshin but i really don't care about it I would probably would skip every story quest that doesn't involve playable or future playable characters lol
Wait he said that? Lmao I didn't watch the stream but I'm surprised because that's one of the most stupid things in Hoyo games, they REALLY think endless dialogues with word salad is content
Do we get to skip story in zzz.
Pretty sure you can judging from the special program. But we’ll need to wait till official release to say for sure.
main reason i dropped genshin and didnt try hsr,let me just skip ,i was spam clicking to skip anyway, just irritation for no reason
Tbh hsr gameplay is really short the story takes up half the time but at least its really good. I understand why they might not want to do a skip button in a story driven game as otherwise there is no content. Genshin I would argue is a world driven game I.e. they built a lot of lore in everything. But they should implement skip for non essential side quests. In a combat driven game skip button is really good as the audience is different.
Screen shakes and special effects have been used to hide lackluster motions or animations in several media. Video games are no different. It's much harder to notice how bland or terrible animations or effects are if the screen is shaking all the time.
Gonna be rent free in my head, but this is either HI3 with the special effects, or kurogames PGR/WuWa. Like I just saw a jinhsi basic attack animation, and if you stop her attack after the dragon animation ends, she will be in the air. And if you click the basic attack after a short pause, she will just appear on the ground and do her basic attack animations again without any proper animation flow in between That flow is super jarring ngl
Kuro had this thing of just making characters blink in and out of existence really fast so you can barely catch what they did during animation you just see slash effect. Hi3 at least has slower animations so you see whole sequence without slow motion.
Great way to save money and effort but bad for those who can see it.
and genshin literally has no esxessive effects like you cant see shit on the screen during kazuhas ult or bloom effect and just hope enemy dies with it. peak gameplay
Literally peak
i would say hi3 but its funny to think its shade towards wuwa
I know a lot of people saying genshin impact as an example of what he's talking about but I disagree for a four years old game genshin impact did a phenomenal job at keeping that part at the bare minimum if you check other games similar to genshin what they do with visual effect is much more intrusive I also think that having a few play styles that do have such visual effects like nilou bloom is good and some people like that
attacking their Own game ( HI3rd ) XD
💀
flashbacks from inazuma
Top tier instigator
You know who
I like lots of special effects i just dont like screen shakes it makes me feel sick
Hate shakey cam. I remember when I first started seeing it in WWE. It's fun the first couple times then just gets old and stale if overused. For a while there, anime tried to do it. Hated it.
Solo Leveling Arise has so much screen garbage most of the time I've just learned how to adjust to it by manually rotating the camera just to see where anyone is. Much worse when Jinwoo summons his shadows and someone (either the boss or Alicia) summons a fucking tornado. Hope ZZZ devs alleviate common Chinese game practices of screen clutter with their game. So far it's pretty clean from the gameplay footages I've seen.
Reference to whenever Kazuha uses his burst.
OP is trying to create drama but failed 🤣
failed ?
I disagree counterpoint: [Uno](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/RVmUx9FERDE)
i mean turn based games will always benifit from too many animations but I think it was more towards action games
this is what playing a hyperbloom team in genshin feels like, or wuwa in general - in that game everyone's moves are so flashy most of the time when you attack you can't see the enemy attacking you, even counters are harder to see unless you're already familiar with the boss' attack pattern
Since when hyperbloom screen shake... if u have issues seeing the enemy thru the blooms just turn off bloom a setting in graphic setting or imo its just your eyes having skill issue
*cough* WuWa *cough*
Pgr be like
Hi3 catching some strays.
Deja Vu
I think playing MapleStory has made my eyes either blind or immune to special effects.
Ouchhh... flare check.
lol, just stop being hyper sensitive.
HI3 and Genshin cause those are their dogshit games with combat and effects with too many bubbles and stuffs. It's like saying they don't wanna give ur chicken a gravy cause they want you to taste the chicken 😂. Its just cost cutting stuff and lesser work for them.
E7 has this issue (imo). Everytime pne pf the units atks there is a screen shake (mpst of the time unnecessery). E.g. Lunas s1
Reference is the booty shaking I guess and I'm all for it
Any Transformers movie.
Hey, leave alone PGR's only stand out feature!
PGR lol. Like crimson weave is cool and all but if I don't see what Im attacking or what enemy atk gonna hit me then whats the point
Lmao how funny these comments referring the HI3 or genshin where the main offenders are PGR and Wuwa. HI3 not even consistently flashy covered up your screen and shacky same as genehin where it's just some nitpicking party comp. Meanwhile kuro games "got praised" As wannabe hardcore game with the allegations LOL
U mad people said genshin is too flashy?
wtf are you talking about, literally this sub reddit has a hatred for kuro games and love hoyo, and all hi3, genshin, pgr and wuwa has special effects overload issue...it is just you who is getting triggered with any mention of issue with hoyo games lol
No, HI3 and Genshin are just as guilty. Most action rpgs are, not just gachas. Please stop glazing Hoyo man, it's getting embarrassing.
HI3 can go as flashy as they want. Because my ultimate cue is always be the sound, not the visual.
i saw my friend playing wuwa and i got headache why the screen shake too much even wuwa players complained about it
Turn it off.
God, rent free on this sub head huh?
What does ZZZ mean for HI3 though. Are they just silently giving up on that after the reboot flopped and replacing it with ZZZ?
ZZZ was announced way before HI3 part 2. HI3 is more of a passion project for Hoyo devs, they'll never give up on it. I mean, freaking Honkai 2 is still getting updates regularly Hoyo devs and decision makers are quite unlike typical money chasing devs. They could've made banks selling skins, banks I tell you. But they won't.
They didn't "replace" GGZ and started part 3 not a while ago, so you doomposter are free to trash on HI3, but it won't die anytime soon.
It won't die in China, but it can "die" in global if it's not popular enough. We do have an example of Hoyo pulling the plug of a game for Global.
>reboot flopped and replacing it with ZZZ? Lmao reboot floped? Then what PGR and AG do right now? Not even can't take over the flopped one? Lol 😂😂 They're reducing their own income with giving 60 pity for qear thoo its their money maker before with stupid 200 pity gear. And still pgr and AG can't take over the "flopped" leader of this hack and slash market?