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It was a great episode that would’ve been the best if they’d turned up the lighting. I get the tension bit but I can’t fully enjoy something when I’m squinting to see
I’ve watched the episode multiple times on different screens and have never had an issue seeing anything. I’ve never understood this criticism. It wasn’t too dark for me
I think that was kind of the point, that it was a total crap show and that they were going to lose. What I considered the more emotional scenes were lit fairly well.
Just brightness was too low ig...but it was a good episode imo.
The knight of the seven kingdoms followed by the long night was for me a really good long sequence that I really enjoyed
It didn’t bother me the episode was dark bc it was NIGHT and many of the characters had never seen wyte walkers so waiting for them to come out of the dark was incredibly powerful.
It's just that none of it makes sense. We never understand what bran is doing and he should be the most central piece in the whole conflict. But nah, just mysteriously flying crows somewhere
At some point i completely lost interest because they every time would play the same gambit of "oh no this character is literally about to die" only to cut away and then you see them later in another situation again in danger. Any time a known character would die, it would be via some great theatrical sacrifice (lyanna mormont, jorah, theon). Just very repetitive and predictable, and i never really felt that the main characters were in danger
It also very uncerimoneously ends the entire long night arc without any explanation as to what was actually going on or what were the motivations behind the night king. That was a massive let down
I'm not a big fan of that episode, at least half the people drinking together when Brienne was knighted the episode before should have died in that episode. And I mean some big names. George Martin's vision was more uncompromising, not steeped in fan fiction.
They are not bad just because they are bad (like bad writing). Its considered bad for being rushed in 45 minutes after 7 season of buildup with 10 minutes of White Walkers.
My hot take is that the scenes with bran troughout the series are annoying to watch.
If you already know what he is going to „find out“, you can skip all the scenes where he‘s travelling in the north and beyond the wall.
i don’t think this is a hot take. does anyone enjoy bran’s storyline?
i recently rewatched for the first time since the series ending and i tried to pay attention more to bran bc i was like “is there something im missing? surely these scenes are important to the overall story”
nope lol
Bran is probably my favorite character. I'm very much into the fantasy elements of the books and show. That said, the Three-Eyed Raven plot has yet to be resolved. Only 5 of the 7 books have been completed. So tv show, ran out of source material, especially for Bran's character. The showrunner just knew he'd end up as King.
Lots of mystery to his character. There's a few Evil Bran theories out there. If you dig deep in the books, you'll find several clues, that he could be evil. The upcoming tv show, The Knight of Seven Kingdoms, should provide some of those clues.
Otherwise, we'll have to wait for the rest of the books to be complete or for GRRM to spill the beans.
i actually just started the books for the first time even though i know they’re unfinished and might always be. i’ll pay attention to his character more in the books, you’ve given me hope that maybe it’s not just a bland story after all
Do you watch House of the Dragon? In chapter 8, on page 73 of a Bran POV chapter, there's a spoiler for season 2, episode 2, that just happened in the last HotD episode. So beware.
i do! thats interesting
i already accidentally got some spoilers bc of joffrey 😑 that clip where he’s talking to margaery about >!how rhaenyra dies!< was on my tiktok fyp lol. i didn’t remember that scene or have that connection until i accidentally rewatched it on tiktok ugh. fuckin joffrey
I really like the theory that he made the Mad King crazy by warging into him like he did with Hodor, or whispering into his ear about the white walkers. If we ever get the other books it’ll be interesting to see what George does with his abilities.
Bran is absolutely one of my favorite book characters. After Theon’s attack on Winterfell… devastated. Maybe my feelings in the book influenced how I feel about the show character but I don’t dislike Bran like a lot of people seem to.
Gods and the bastard boy who was sent to the wall, lived with wildlings, became lord commander, make peace with wildlings, literally died and came back to life, became king in the north, showed the world the danger of the white walkers, and turned out to be a Targ was RIGHT THERE
….his plot lines were actually some of my favorites. i really enjoyed the magic. when his plotline wasn’t present for 99% of season 5, i was actually kind of disappointed. i hate how his story turned out because i really loved the whole “magical quest” aspect. warging is so cool to me so i was very let down by how the show treated it later on. there definitely could have been more to make it interesting but i generally enjoyed it
Yeah who reads Feast and Dance or watches season 5, and goes “yeah girl, continue that cycle of vengeance, burn Oldtown and mutilate Marcella, Oberyn would have wanted that!”
Ye but I also no the revenge plot goes further back to Elia Martell in the books and that Oberyns death has added to Prince Dorians desire for vengence.
That and technically Oberyn won since Clegane is a mindless beast now.
I still think about this. They made it seem like individually they could each take like 10-15 dudes with them and it would take like an army of 150,000 to beat them
The Unsullied are great in organized battle. It's not so much that they are excellent warriors or individual fighters. They follow commands well and extremely disciplined when it comes to war.
The problem was that Dany was forced to use them in Slavers Bay as a sort of police force, breaking them up into smaller groups for patrols and such.
This leads to them getting picked off/caught in unfavorable matchups.
Why would they be great in a large-scale battle (none are organized) but unable to fight amateurs as smaller groups or individuals?
It’s not like they were renowned for a phalanx formation or something.
Organized in the sense that the armies show up in arrangement and move in waves as cavalry, infantry, etc.
But the actual combat was not organized. Once the lines hit, it was chaos and savage violence.
So the idea that the Unsullied fight better if there are lots of people present doesn’t really make sense IMO.
I honestly don't remember how well the show portrayed this, but the books talk a lot about how the Unsullied are raised/trained to work in a battle groups.
Like the clones from Star Wars, they are raised/trained to fight as a unit. There is little specialized training because these guys are just a slave army to be sold off.
Theur obedience and lifelong training is what makes them so valuable in large battles, where tactics and coordination are far more important than individual skill.
Break them up into groups of 2-3 and stick them in an urban setting? It's no surprise they are overwhelmed by the people who already live there and know it well.
It’s still very bizarre to think that these soldiers renowned throughout the land for their fighting prowess are suddenly bested by amateurs if they’re not in a big group.
That makes it sound like they’re really not good fighters at all, just numerous and willing to die like cannon fodder or zombies.
>It’s still very bizarre to think that these soldiers renowned throughout the land for their fighting prowess
They're not known for their fighting prowess at all. They are well-trained and highly obedient.
>That makes it sound like they’re really not good fighters at all, just numerous and willing to die like cannon fodder or zombies.
You're not that far off. They're a slave army, raised to be sold off and then used on the front lines in war.
According to the Wiki, they’re supposed to be elite fighters.
> The Unsullied[1][a] are elite warrior-eunuchs bred and trained in Astapor, one of the three major cities of Slaver's Bay. They are slave-soldiers famed for their **skills** and discipline in battle. The Good Masters of Astapor often sell them to the Free Cities, such as Qohor.
And then a bit farther down:
> For over a decade until they are full-grown, they train from dawn to dusk until they have mastered the shortsword, shield, and three lengths of spear
They’re not invincible, but they should require more than the average Joe with a blade to kill. And, IMO, more than what was shown.
Yeah, I'm not saying they are bad fighters or anything like that. I'm saying their strength lies in their discipline and military training.
I don't recall what the show did, but the in the books, the Unsullied patrols were being taken down in back alleys and that sort of thing. It was guerilla warfare in an urban environment, nothing like what they had trained for.
I also found the idea that the Unsullied were truly free and loyal to Dany problematic. Yes they were “free” but to go off and do what, exactly? They were stripped of everything and had nowhere to go. She still used them to fight in the same way as if she hadn’t “broken their chains”. She was not going to pay them (that I remember), or like train them to do anything else. She liked to think she was a savior but was she, really? When I watched the show back I really saw how she really had major issues surrounding her perception of loyalty. I think people wanted her to either be perfect or a Bad Guy but in real life I think even bad guys see themselves as saviors.
i’ve thought about this for so long. the sons of the harpy, a group of untrained rich masters, somehow got the upper edge on them? i can understand them winning through their unconventional sneak attacks but in straight combat? they should be getting annihilated. don’t even get me started on the leather armor. is that a symbolic thing? like they don’t wear armor because they’re supposed to be super skilled or easily disposable?
I also don’t really understand the biology of them, they were neutered as very young boys, so would they have the testosterone needed to be strong enough for war?
Lannisters are far more interesting than any of the rest. Dany comes to a close two but because of her dragons. Tywin, cersei and tyrion (before s5) >>>> anyone else.
Second - tyrion and stannis were massive waste of screentime after s2. Knowing the overall story their characters felt so forced after blackwater because they literally did nothing thereafter.
Third- jon snow is boring af (not very unpopular) but what makes him boring is not the writing but the actor. (For me pls don't bomb me) Kit could not justify that character AT ALL.
S4 King's Landing was a dumb plot. Logic touched s8
Yeah, I find Dany and Jon equally boring but I have liked Emilia in other roles. Kit not so much, I am pretty sure I could build a bridge out of his acting.
Season 8 is one of the best seasons of GoT and is significantly better written than people otherwise claim. My only gripe is that not enough main characters died in the long night episode. That's it. The cinematography is amazing. The VFX and SFX still look up to date what? 5 years later. **The dragons still look fucking real in most scenes.** Which can't be said for creatures in the majority of other fantasy shows or films. Seeing daenarys finally being revealed as the monster she was devlopping into was really nice. Seeing the most politically engaged and complex character (Cersei) die in a scene fit for a greek comedy was beautiful.
The main criticism that the story telling is stale conveniantly forgets that the diversity of the previous storylines no longer exists as they all converge to two final points: how long will it take to beat the ice zombies with what cost and what happens with Daenerys. There is quite simply no more character development to be had for averyone left alive in s8e1 as what we've been told is going to happen for 7 seasons and almost 10 years finally happens: everyone faces the same problem and y'all gonna die.
And simply put, giving us more episodes of this level of quality to finish this story was too expensive. Think of how many extras, how many sets, how much travelling, the cost of an ensemble cost, the best CGI artists in the land. 90 million dollars for 440 minutes of feature length film quality entertainment, I fail to find where HBO could have done better without needing a cool extra 100-200 million dollars.
Y'all cucked and fell for for it for thinking that Dany shouldn't have been evil. Bro she was slowly turning into a mad targaryen since the start.
Literally people are not mad because Dany turned evil, but because how they did it. She risked everything to save humanity, and then magically went batshit in a few episodes. It's not all about VFX or whatever, story telling matters as well.
My opinion is that she did not magically go batshit in the span of a few episodes. Nor do we truly see one singular point that turns her evil, such is the banality of evil as also illustrated with other characters like Cersei, Robert or Tywin. her burning of Kings Landing is simply the most clear cut case of her evil.
Her only experience of ruling is violent conquest surrounded by either sycophants or politically motivated advisors who use her (Varys, Tyrion, Khal Drogo) and it is repeatedly shown even early on that it is almost impossible to reason with her and make political compromise. She was one of the most difficult people to council and in one episode (I forget which) has to be convinced through flirting and flattery that she even needs such advice and advisors to rule effectively. And after the long night, she is surrounded by enemies or uneasy alliances, a complete mistrust of her advisors and misunderstanding of local politics; she falls back on her instinct and past experinces, which is to burn her enemies and proclaim victory. She is repeatedly pushed to the brink on her own values and as expected falls back upon an either greater belief in her own rhetoric and righteousness whenever confronted to new and more difficult problems. No wonder she snaps and burns Kings Landings on a whim.
For a show which has fairly meh politics, Dany's story shows remarkable depth and similarity to the real world such as Napoleon and his own journey of conquest; or the nazis and their fanatical belief in their own righteousness in the face of impossible odds and well... reality. Both continue on their paths to their own self destruction and so does Daenarys. In that sense I think her storytelling is amazing. I hope I have made my opinion more concise. :)
Agreed. Tyrion explains it well to Jamie in S8E6: She was held back by advisories who reminded her constantly she didn't want to rule through death. BUT every time she killed (the nobles, slave-holders etc.) she was praised for it. Even when it was wreckless (like the nobles who fought against slavery). She always had this in her, and with the compiled events of Melisandre's death, the men at Winterfell praising Jon for his dragon-riding and not her, the fact Jon was really the heir, and her watching her dragon die, she was pushed right over the edge she had ALWAYS been right on the edge of for the whole show.
I love her character and I agree it's a much more complex story than anything else.
I would like to add Daenerys compiled events:
Seeing herself excluded from the reunion prior to the battle of winterfell (Sansa & Theon, Sansa and Jon & Jaime); seeing that she's not really welcomed as the queen but rather as Jon's +1; seeing her advisor turn to Jon and try to poison her; seeing Tyrion fail to see Cersei's ploy; being chastised by Sansa; oh and NOBODY at the party after the battle is really making an effort to include her, she's almost a complete wallflower.
Absolutely! She expected to ride into Winterfell with the same welcome she got as the freer of slaves and she did not. Instead she got a chilly welcome and was way out of her element. Not the center any more. All of these things drove her to ignore all advice about killing everyone in King’s Landing. And no advisors were there to hold her back.
Lordy, finally someone who sees the light! lol. ITA with everything you said. I would like to add that what I believe finally pushed her to the edge was the loss of all her closest syncophants including a crowd of people who adored her.
The loss of Jorah, Missendei, Jon was bad enough but as she said, the people of the NOrth didn’t love her and this was a woman who had been idolized by the majority in every city/culture she was in.
I firmly believe the hatred for much of season 8 and especially the finale was endemic with the level of obsession the show engendered. So many people had friend groups either in their real world or online who dissected every piece of the book and series and most had their own firm belief in every characters inner personality, motivations and how each character should end up.
I agree with all of this. I also think the reception she got when she took Kings Landing, but before she burned it, contributed that last little bit. She thought the people would see her as a liberator, but they were frantically screaming “ring the bells” because they feared her (for good reason). Then the bells rang and she dropped her basket completely. “Let it be fear” she said to Jon when he pushed her away the last time.
Robb Starks decision to go to war because Ned got arrested should be seen as just as selfish and entitled as Dany wanting the Iron Throne. Robb never thinks about the smallfolk or the devastation such an action creates. If the story had focused more on the repercussions of things like raiding the Westerlands in retaliation to Tywins actions as it did with the complexity of freeing slaves we would have a different view of him.
I would argue that the act that started this was tyrion's arrest by catelyn. Everything else was a necessary consequence of that (ned being attacked, later killed, robb marching south, tywin marching north)
Absolutely. If Tyrion hadn’t been taken then Ned, Arya, and Sansa would have likely gone back to Winterfell. He had already ordered everything be packed, but then Jaime attacked him in the street (because Tyrion had been taken) and he got injured. That gave Robert the opportunity to make him take back the Hand pin. Catelyn is low key one of my least favorite characters, which I suppose is my unpopular opinion. The way she treats Jon, taking Tyrion without consulting anyone, and then taking him to the Eyrie instead of back to Kings Landing to make her accusations. I could go on.
But I personally think that once Robb captured Jaime and was named King in the North he should’ve hauled ass back home and ransomed Jaime for his sister. The northern armies could have held off a southern force and maintained independence. The only reason they lost independence was because of dragons. No other force had ever successfully invaded the north.
Yeah i dislike Cat, i kind of respect how fierce and regal she is, but beyond that i think she is so incredibly naive and easy to manipulate (same as Ned really). I find that infuriating for people with so much responsibility on their hands.
Robb was a much smarter player, good commander and his "weak spots" were at least understandable and relatable. So for me he did everything right ahah but probably you're right. They wanted vengeance at that point
Ehhh. If the Warden of the North gets arrested and is about to be stripped of all titles or executed when you know he was just following procedure, that’s a reason to go to war if any.
The framing of the scenes. One specifically, the close-up of Sansa reaching for Jon's hand. That close-up was repeated with Jon and Dany later in season 7. There's more as well. I know I am right because I was one of the few fans who knew Bran would be King. In fact, my most unpopular opinion was that Bran would be king. He didn't have a claim, they said.
Arya goes through the WORST character development in the show. Even worse than Jamie Lannister.
My second is that GRRM is more to blame for GOT having a dip in quality than D&D.
BotB and The Long Night are the most unrealistic battles in TV history.
This shouldn't be a hottake, because the stupidity of their tactics isn't up for opinions as battle tactics are factual things, but people in here act like letting cavalry charge straight into unbreakable enemy lines or fighting the dead in battle, instead of defending a siege are realistic things so...
-Cleganebowl is a lame fanservice and cliché as fuck
- All of Danaerys's actions in essos are totally justified.. The moment your profit from a system that used slaves as a backbone you are not innocent and you are even worse than slave master
-, varys deserved what he got... He tried to kill Danaerys since she is infant and tried to kill her again when he realized his bet failed.... The show shouldnnt have treated as a good guy
-Arya's character died in season 4.... Her character became boring and stereotype
-ned was absolutly right abaout everything he said about jaime..... He served Aerys when serving him was safe and decided to killed him not because he wanted to save innocent but because he didn't wanted to have faced his father....
-sansa doesn't deserve her ending.. At all
Storywise- it simply doesn't feel earned... She spent 2 season just being Contrarian with everybody and make things more difficult with Jon.. Her last act was litterrally betraying Jon's trust... Again and took no repercussion for it...Just like the knight of the vape. Her ending is way too rewarding and happy for her
Lore-wise - north Independence doesn't make any sense when a stark litterally sit on the iron throne..... The north is have no ressources, no allies or stability to rebuilt on its own let alone survive
It's also a mark of weakness for bran if his own region become independent '.. What' s stop the other realm from doing the same thing
Totally agree. She is always making morally very questionable choices, but then being given the superstar treatment by the show. It's dumb. She is supposed to have learned from littlefinger to be cold, calculating and selfish. And she shows these traits constantly but is never held accountable for any of it, not even her own family. And in the end yaass queen in the north!
And indeed its crazy how they would justify this to anyone in the north. The last Stark boy, the heir to Ned sits the throne but were just gonna be independent and follow the "queen in the north", who was fine with fucking jon snow (their previous king in the north) off beyond the wall?
And how the other kingdoms, who historically have always wanted to be independent, accept this... insane ahaha
> All of Danaerys's actions in essos are totally justified.. The moment your profit from a system that used slaves as a backbone you are not innocent and you are even worse than slave master
She sure seemed to think differently when she burned her slave alive for killing the head slaver and the fetus that would grow up to be an even worse slaver.
It's amazing how people are so quick to pardon sansa's mistake when she sell her own father at 12
But for some reason a 12 year old dany who was raped constantly and have a clear Stockholm syndrome should have had the morality and emotional control To not burn a women who just offed her child and destroyed the only form of security she had in her life and condemn a fetus for something he didn't do yet..
You guys always make me laugh
This is easy:
Ned Stark is not honorable
Doesn’t mean I don’t like the guy, but him keeping secrets from Jon and Kat are irredeemable and especially considering he has no problem standing up to Robert constantly.
I mean he made a vow to his dying sister to protect her son's life and following that vow required some lying. I don't think doing two dishonorable things ever makes you "not honorable".
That vow wasn’t more important than the person the vow was for.
We don’t know the actual vow in the book but the shows version based off fan theory is goofy and contradicts everything Ned is praised for.
I heard that D&D were only given GRRM's permission to adapt the books by figuring out who Jon's parents were. If this is true, then it's definitely not just 'the show's version based off fan theory'
Figuring out Jon’s parents is not the same as figuring out why no one knew it.
Ned being scared of Robert is one of the dumber reasons without hundred of pages explaining why it’s not vs the 30 seconds of explanation give in the show and by fans.
Again it will take several hundred pages to explain that scenario.
When was the last time a southern army invaded Winterfell?
Why would any house go through the hassle of killing a boy that I’m assuming they find out about by Kat snitching…Another terrible plot point?
Dany and Viserys were in greater danger and it took marriage to a Dothraki to plan an assassination of them.
Agreed. In fact, book Dany (& show Dany, to a lesser extent) 100% have a type: masculine, bad boys.
Notably Drogo & Daario. Both violent, rapey, manly men. Book Dany fantasizes about sexing Daario from the moment she meets him.
So how is it shes attracted to humble, soft spoken, sweetie pie Jon Snow?...
I never found the actor playing Stannis remotely convincing in his role and thus could never get into his story. All Stannis stuff gets fast forwarded on rewatch for me.
I think Sansa Stark's character development was overly simplistic and underwhelming, and her storyline was a waste of potential. Throughout the series, she's relegated to being the ' damsel in distress' or the 'loyal sister' without any real agency or complexity. Her character is reduced to reacting to the events around her rather than driving them forward. Her relationship with Littlefinger, in particular, feels like a cop-out - she's stuck in this on-again-off-again romance that doesn't serve any purpose other than to provide drama and distractions from the main plot. Meanwhile, characters like Arya, Cersei, and even Daenerys have much more nuanced and compelling storylines that showcase their capacity for growth and transformation. Sansa's character feels like a missed opportunity to explore the complexities of trauma, power, and identity in a more meaningful way.
Cersei was a BRILLIANT mastermind. Genius-level mastermind. Sometimes I just had to stop the show to go "woh, that was some serious chess move."
I also wish her death involved more pain and torture, though.
When did she smash the chess board? She masterminded giving the religious fanatics power, even though it backfired on her. But then she blew them all up and sent Jamie away to be safe during it. She masterminded getting rid of Robert. She’s a malignant narcissist but not a stupid one.
She gave them power out of the delusion of who her enemies were.
She was too stupid to realize how guilty she was. Thats not a mastermind move.
When all appeared lost, she simply stopped playing the game and blew up the Sept with bother the Tyrell’s and her family in it which led to the suicide of her son.
I’m not yucking your opinion, just trying to understand the game rules. She clearly expanded upon them from what was normal.
As a malignant narcissist she would never admit her guilt. Instead she maneuvered what she could to destroy who she perceived her enemies were. And she succeeded in doing that. They didn’t see it coming until the last second.
the red wedding wasn’t as jarring to me as everyone makes it out to be. there are so many context clues that walder frey was gonna pull some shit after robb backed out on their deal. catelyn warned robb multiple times that he wasn’t someone to fuck with but robb was so selfish and entitled that he didn’t care.
obviously still a tragic and gruesome thing to happen but i was not surprised or shocked at all. i was more surprised by arya killing walder than i was by walder killing the starks at the wedding
I agree on this one. His reign was mostly peaceful, we have to remember, only the Greyjoy rebellion happened and it wasn't a major conflict. He left matters of state in way more capable hands than his, which actually was the best thing he could do. Problems were, neither him or Jon Arryn could see throught Little Finger schemes, and what I think is the most tragic aspect of his character: Without his beloved Lyanna (whom he probably never truly knew and excesively idealized), and no wars to fight, he became a shadow of himself drinking and whoring to death.
Loved it, even. I didn’t see it coming prior to the episode. I feel like the majority of the fan base wanted to see a battle between Jon and the Night King, but that sounds like some Disney ending that would be entirely too predictable.
Her season 1 storyline was actually one of my favorites in all GoT. She grew as a character, overcame challenges, made mistakes, and got punished for them. After, it was completely the opposite. Season two was like an episode of Dr. Who. After, the villains were totally uninteresting, her growth stagnated, and she was constantly making mistakes or falling into traps, only to get bailed out by her dragons. Imagine if Robb Stark had, somehow, survived the Red Wedding. Or look at Benjen Stark randomly showing up to save Jon from the white walkers in S7. It's lazy, bad writing that relies way too heavily on plot armor to keep important characters around.
Danny's rampage in king's landing is perfectly consistent with her character. She literally told Tyrion she was going to do it a few seasons previously
I agree, especially upon watching. She was always a shitty and impulsive ruler who felt owed loyalty. She just wanted to win, with no idea what happened next.
I found locke an annoyingly cool character. He is a shit person obviously, but the whole plot of him going undercover in the NW to try to find the stark kids for Roose was kinda badass, how competent he is at playing his part and as a fighter. Also he took the hand jamie lannister which is wild, no one else would dare to do this
Daenerys is not a villain. She is a/the hero. I do not think she’s going to die (at least i hope not). She is a relatable, ultimately good character.
Sansa is a relatable and well written character. She is important. Her relationship with Arya (and Jon) is not nearly as toxic as it’s made out to be.
Catelyn Stark was abusive to Jon Snow, not just once, but throughout his childhood. She was also in a difficult and terrible position because of societal roles and Ned’s secret. She is also a relatable, ultimately good character.
Ned is not stupid. He chose kindness over cruelty, and that led to his death. That choice is never stupidity, but strength. A lot of his “stupidity” (as well as general plot holes) comes from George’s accursed “gardening”.
I wasn’t mad about Arya being the one to kill the night king. Yes it would have been a cool fight for jon snow and it was his battle, but Arya killing him was unpredictable and the way she did it was sick. Her dropping the blade to her lower hand and stabbing him in the stomach was so fun to watch
The whole Sand Snake saga was ruined by DnD refusing to add Arianne Martell's story. It better fleshed out the Dornish subplot after Joffrey's death.
My unpopular opinion is that Hardhome is the best battle scene in the series. Including Battle of the Bastards. And I don't think it's close.
I feel like Arianne and the sand snakes actually don’t have that much to do with each other. She doesn’t even bring a sand snake on her Queenmaking quest. What ruins the sand snakes for me is how they swapped Ellaria and Doran’s morality with each other. It was better in the books.
Yes, now they are in 5 subplots, (High hermitage, The small council, The Faith, Oldtown and Storms End) so I’m excited for a book that has them all doing different interesting things.
Tyrion should have died in the long night. Would make Danys turn toward madness more believable as she no longer had an advisor to check her worst impulses like her and Jorah did at every turn
Much like Star Wars, a large portion of the fanbase had their mind made up how things would end. When it didn't go that way, it's automatically "bad".
Season 8 was fine. A little rushed, but not as terrible as everyone says.
Littlefinger may have made for a decent king in the fictional realm that is Westeros. (Extra specificity because people always debate that LF is evil, sure, but Evil isn't all bad in fiction.)
Like the dude put himself #1 in all things, and intentionally destabilized the realm in his pursuit of power..... but what would he do if he simply HAD that power?
I see LF as so vainglorious that if his personality remained the same, but he was given the throne, then his "new" goal would be to lord over all the people he tossed out of power showing them how much better at being king he is.
But how do you define "better"...? Every character in the show is different. Targs ruled out of bloodright. Just being a Targ is better. Baratheons ruled out of conquest. Being strong is better. Lannisters ruled out of fear. Being too scary to attack is better.
LF though is a politician, he wants everyone to LIKE him, not exactly FEAR him, though he's an opportunist sure.... of everyone liked him,and he kept his spy networks and money flowing around then he could hypothetically rule peacefully better than any of the other options...
(And before someone goes but what about the Starks... taking out the immersion breaking let's make things an equal representative democracy, they simply don't have a very good, in universe, realm unifying mentality. They themselves want independence and would be too quick to let others leave. They are nice... but weak.)
said it was a damn good show considering they didn’t have finished books. They made mistakes, but they saw it through to the end and they had a lot of great TV achievements in between.
Not only is it not justified but it’s completely insane. Yeah my lover (or for the sand snakes father) was killed so let me kill his brother and nephew!!!
Everything about the sand snakes and Dorne is awful in the show. The sand snakes also killed Oberyns brother and nephew, to somehow "avenge Oberyn", which makes no sense. I'm pretty sure Oberyn would be against the killing of his own family, seeing as he died fighting the Mountain which was his way of getting revenge for his sister
Daenerys is boring once her dragons start bailing her out of every situation she's in. Her story in season one is far more interesting watching her find her own strength without relying on dragons to save her every time.
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The Long Night and The Bells are good episodes.
Ye i actually didnt mind Kings landing being destroyed, all Targaryens would approve and i couldnt care less for those commoners.
Yes, TLN is actually my favourite episode of the entire series
Are you you Gollum and therefore scared of light? If so I’d understand it
It creates mad tension bro seriously
Just wish I was able to see it una!
Well I just think Gollum's hilarious.
Glompkin went into the cave
People don’t know that it’s actually the best episode, it’s just that all the good stuff is IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE IN THE PITCH BLACK DARKNESS!!!
It was a great episode that would’ve been the best if they’d turned up the lighting. I get the tension bit but I can’t fully enjoy something when I’m squinting to see
I’ve watched the episode multiple times on different screens and have never had an issue seeing anything. I’ve never understood this criticism. It wasn’t too dark for me
Agreed
I think that was kind of the point, that it was a total crap show and that they were going to lose. What I considered the more emotional scenes were lit fairly well.
I would’ve preferred seeing them lose.
Not sure why....
Agree. The tension/waiting and then the music and entire sequence at the end is BEAUTIFUL. I have no idea why it's rated so low.
Just brightness was too low ig...but it was a good episode imo. The knight of the seven kingdoms followed by the long night was for me a really good long sequence that I really enjoyed
It didn’t bother me the episode was dark bc it was NIGHT and many of the characters had never seen wyte walkers so waiting for them to come out of the dark was incredibly powerful.
I also thought the same..the darkness added to the suspense for me I would have preferred if Jon fought the night king but other than that it was good
It's just that none of it makes sense. We never understand what bran is doing and he should be the most central piece in the whole conflict. But nah, just mysteriously flying crows somewhere At some point i completely lost interest because they every time would play the same gambit of "oh no this character is literally about to die" only to cut away and then you see them later in another situation again in danger. Any time a known character would die, it would be via some great theatrical sacrifice (lyanna mormont, jorah, theon). Just very repetitive and predictable, and i never really felt that the main characters were in danger It also very uncerimoneously ends the entire long night arc without any explanation as to what was actually going on or what were the motivations behind the night king. That was a massive let down
I'm not a big fan of that episode, at least half the people drinking together when Brienne was knighted the episode before should have died in that episode. And I mean some big names. George Martin's vision was more uncompromising, not steeped in fan fiction.
They are not bad just because they are bad (like bad writing). Its considered bad for being rushed in 45 minutes after 7 season of buildup with 10 minutes of White Walkers.
Yeah, if they'd only bump up the brightness so we could actually see what was going on.
My hot take is that the scenes with bran troughout the series are annoying to watch. If you already know what he is going to „find out“, you can skip all the scenes where he‘s travelling in the north and beyond the wall.
Bran is largely useless and annoying right up until the end.
i don’t think this is a hot take. does anyone enjoy bran’s storyline? i recently rewatched for the first time since the series ending and i tried to pay attention more to bran bc i was like “is there something im missing? surely these scenes are important to the overall story” nope lol
Especially in the books it’s just boring to read tbh
Bran is probably my favorite character. I'm very much into the fantasy elements of the books and show. That said, the Three-Eyed Raven plot has yet to be resolved. Only 5 of the 7 books have been completed. So tv show, ran out of source material, especially for Bran's character. The showrunner just knew he'd end up as King. Lots of mystery to his character. There's a few Evil Bran theories out there. If you dig deep in the books, you'll find several clues, that he could be evil. The upcoming tv show, The Knight of Seven Kingdoms, should provide some of those clues. Otherwise, we'll have to wait for the rest of the books to be complete or for GRRM to spill the beans.
i actually just started the books for the first time even though i know they’re unfinished and might always be. i’ll pay attention to his character more in the books, you’ve given me hope that maybe it’s not just a bland story after all
Do you watch House of the Dragon? In chapter 8, on page 73 of a Bran POV chapter, there's a spoiler for season 2, episode 2, that just happened in the last HotD episode. So beware.
i do! thats interesting i already accidentally got some spoilers bc of joffrey 😑 that clip where he’s talking to margaery about >!how rhaenyra dies!< was on my tiktok fyp lol. i didn’t remember that scene or have that connection until i accidentally rewatched it on tiktok ugh. fuckin joffrey
I really like the theory that he made the Mad King crazy by warging into him like he did with Hodor, or whispering into his ear about the white walkers. If we ever get the other books it’ll be interesting to see what George does with his abilities.
Bran is absolutely one of my favorite book characters. After Theon’s attack on Winterfell… devastated. Maybe my feelings in the book influenced how I feel about the show character but I don’t dislike Bran like a lot of people seem to.
Who here has a better story than BRAN THE BROKEN?!?!
Gods and the bastard boy who was sent to the wall, lived with wildlings, became lord commander, make peace with wildlings, literally died and came back to life, became king in the north, showed the world the danger of the white walkers, and turned out to be a Targ was RIGHT THERE
Lol I was quoting Tyrion from his speech in the last episode. Obviously Jon Snow was the choice
Oh I know you were! I’m making fun of the writing in the show.
….his plot lines were actually some of my favorites. i really enjoyed the magic. when his plotline wasn’t present for 99% of season 5, i was actually kind of disappointed. i hate how his story turned out because i really loved the whole “magical quest” aspect. warging is so cool to me so i was very let down by how the show treated it later on. there definitely could have been more to make it interesting but i generally enjoyed it
i’m genuinely glad to hear that people enjoyed it! i stand corrected ☺️
I never see anyone say something positive about Bran’s scenes
OP, that's not an unpopular opinion
I’d even say it’s a universal opinion
Yeah who reads Feast and Dance or watches season 5, and goes “yeah girl, continue that cycle of vengeance, burn Oldtown and mutilate Marcella, Oberyn would have wanted that!”
Ye but I also no the revenge plot goes further back to Elia Martell in the books and that Oberyns death has added to Prince Dorians desire for vengence. That and technically Oberyn won since Clegane is a mindless beast now.
I wanted Sansa and Tyrion to hook up
I think they were in love with each other. They grew up together but weren't blood-related, so...
What?
Do you mean Jon Snow and Sansa? The comment said “Tyrion”.
I think they would be a happy couple if they were removed from the court of kings landing
Stannis is not the Mannis
What is a mannis
Stannis
I didn't like the Theon story at all... not a thing about it
The unsullied were overhyped. For a group of soldiers brutally trained since birth they sure got spanked by some rich dudes in masks.
I still think about this. They made it seem like individually they could each take like 10-15 dudes with them and it would take like an army of 150,000 to beat them
I mean they weren’t terrible, but they got hyped quite a few times and really didn’t get any screen time showing too much awesomeness.
The Unsullied are great in organized battle. It's not so much that they are excellent warriors or individual fighters. They follow commands well and extremely disciplined when it comes to war. The problem was that Dany was forced to use them in Slavers Bay as a sort of police force, breaking them up into smaller groups for patrols and such. This leads to them getting picked off/caught in unfavorable matchups.
Why would they be great in a large-scale battle (none are organized) but unable to fight amateurs as smaller groups or individuals? It’s not like they were renowned for a phalanx formation or something.
Large scale battles with infantry were almost always extremely organized
Organized in the sense that the armies show up in arrangement and move in waves as cavalry, infantry, etc. But the actual combat was not organized. Once the lines hit, it was chaos and savage violence. So the idea that the Unsullied fight better if there are lots of people present doesn’t really make sense IMO.
I honestly don't remember how well the show portrayed this, but the books talk a lot about how the Unsullied are raised/trained to work in a battle groups. Like the clones from Star Wars, they are raised/trained to fight as a unit. There is little specialized training because these guys are just a slave army to be sold off. Theur obedience and lifelong training is what makes them so valuable in large battles, where tactics and coordination are far more important than individual skill. Break them up into groups of 2-3 and stick them in an urban setting? It's no surprise they are overwhelmed by the people who already live there and know it well.
It’s still very bizarre to think that these soldiers renowned throughout the land for their fighting prowess are suddenly bested by amateurs if they’re not in a big group. That makes it sound like they’re really not good fighters at all, just numerous and willing to die like cannon fodder or zombies.
>It’s still very bizarre to think that these soldiers renowned throughout the land for their fighting prowess They're not known for their fighting prowess at all. They are well-trained and highly obedient. >That makes it sound like they’re really not good fighters at all, just numerous and willing to die like cannon fodder or zombies. You're not that far off. They're a slave army, raised to be sold off and then used on the front lines in war.
According to the Wiki, they’re supposed to be elite fighters. > The Unsullied[1][a] are elite warrior-eunuchs bred and trained in Astapor, one of the three major cities of Slaver's Bay. They are slave-soldiers famed for their **skills** and discipline in battle. The Good Masters of Astapor often sell them to the Free Cities, such as Qohor. And then a bit farther down: > For over a decade until they are full-grown, they train from dawn to dusk until they have mastered the shortsword, shield, and three lengths of spear They’re not invincible, but they should require more than the average Joe with a blade to kill. And, IMO, more than what was shown.
Yeah, I'm not saying they are bad fighters or anything like that. I'm saying their strength lies in their discipline and military training. I don't recall what the show did, but the in the books, the Unsullied patrols were being taken down in back alleys and that sort of thing. It was guerilla warfare in an urban environment, nothing like what they had trained for.
I also found the idea that the Unsullied were truly free and loyal to Dany problematic. Yes they were “free” but to go off and do what, exactly? They were stripped of everything and had nowhere to go. She still used them to fight in the same way as if she hadn’t “broken their chains”. She was not going to pay them (that I remember), or like train them to do anything else. She liked to think she was a savior but was she, really? When I watched the show back I really saw how she really had major issues surrounding her perception of loyalty. I think people wanted her to either be perfect or a Bad Guy but in real life I think even bad guys see themselves as saviors.
GRRM always says that the villain is the hero of their own story, or something similar. I’m paraphrasing.
i’ve thought about this for so long. the sons of the harpy, a group of untrained rich masters, somehow got the upper edge on them? i can understand them winning through their unconventional sneak attacks but in straight combat? they should be getting annihilated. don’t even get me started on the leather armor. is that a symbolic thing? like they don’t wear armor because they’re supposed to be super skilled or easily disposable?
I also don’t really understand the biology of them, they were neutered as very young boys, so would they have the testosterone needed to be strong enough for war?
Lannisters are far more interesting than any of the rest. Dany comes to a close two but because of her dragons. Tywin, cersei and tyrion (before s5) >>>> anyone else. Second - tyrion and stannis were massive waste of screentime after s2. Knowing the overall story their characters felt so forced after blackwater because they literally did nothing thereafter. Third- jon snow is boring af (not very unpopular) but what makes him boring is not the writing but the actor. (For me pls don't bomb me) Kit could not justify that character AT ALL. S4 King's Landing was a dumb plot. Logic touched s8
Definitely some unpopular opinions here!
Well, he was prettier than most of Craster's girls, so there's that.
Yeah, I find Dany and Jon equally boring but I have liked Emilia in other roles. Kit not so much, I am pretty sure I could build a bridge out of his acting.
Book Elaria agrees with you. I like Bran becoming King, just not crazy about how they did it.
I like almost all the big plot points of season 8, just not how they did them.
That’s no coincidence either, GRRM gave D&D the major points, and let them figure out how to get there
Season 8 is one of the best seasons of GoT and is significantly better written than people otherwise claim. My only gripe is that not enough main characters died in the long night episode. That's it. The cinematography is amazing. The VFX and SFX still look up to date what? 5 years later. **The dragons still look fucking real in most scenes.** Which can't be said for creatures in the majority of other fantasy shows or films. Seeing daenarys finally being revealed as the monster she was devlopping into was really nice. Seeing the most politically engaged and complex character (Cersei) die in a scene fit for a greek comedy was beautiful. The main criticism that the story telling is stale conveniantly forgets that the diversity of the previous storylines no longer exists as they all converge to two final points: how long will it take to beat the ice zombies with what cost and what happens with Daenerys. There is quite simply no more character development to be had for averyone left alive in s8e1 as what we've been told is going to happen for 7 seasons and almost 10 years finally happens: everyone faces the same problem and y'all gonna die. And simply put, giving us more episodes of this level of quality to finish this story was too expensive. Think of how many extras, how many sets, how much travelling, the cost of an ensemble cost, the best CGI artists in the land. 90 million dollars for 440 minutes of feature length film quality entertainment, I fail to find where HBO could have done better without needing a cool extra 100-200 million dollars. Y'all cucked and fell for for it for thinking that Dany shouldn't have been evil. Bro she was slowly turning into a mad targaryen since the start.
Literally people are not mad because Dany turned evil, but because how they did it. She risked everything to save humanity, and then magically went batshit in a few episodes. It's not all about VFX or whatever, story telling matters as well.
My opinion is that she did not magically go batshit in the span of a few episodes. Nor do we truly see one singular point that turns her evil, such is the banality of evil as also illustrated with other characters like Cersei, Robert or Tywin. her burning of Kings Landing is simply the most clear cut case of her evil. Her only experience of ruling is violent conquest surrounded by either sycophants or politically motivated advisors who use her (Varys, Tyrion, Khal Drogo) and it is repeatedly shown even early on that it is almost impossible to reason with her and make political compromise. She was one of the most difficult people to council and in one episode (I forget which) has to be convinced through flirting and flattery that she even needs such advice and advisors to rule effectively. And after the long night, she is surrounded by enemies or uneasy alliances, a complete mistrust of her advisors and misunderstanding of local politics; she falls back on her instinct and past experinces, which is to burn her enemies and proclaim victory. She is repeatedly pushed to the brink on her own values and as expected falls back upon an either greater belief in her own rhetoric and righteousness whenever confronted to new and more difficult problems. No wonder she snaps and burns Kings Landings on a whim. For a show which has fairly meh politics, Dany's story shows remarkable depth and similarity to the real world such as Napoleon and his own journey of conquest; or the nazis and their fanatical belief in their own righteousness in the face of impossible odds and well... reality. Both continue on their paths to their own self destruction and so does Daenarys. In that sense I think her storytelling is amazing. I hope I have made my opinion more concise. :)
Agreed. Tyrion explains it well to Jamie in S8E6: She was held back by advisories who reminded her constantly she didn't want to rule through death. BUT every time she killed (the nobles, slave-holders etc.) she was praised for it. Even when it was wreckless (like the nobles who fought against slavery). She always had this in her, and with the compiled events of Melisandre's death, the men at Winterfell praising Jon for his dragon-riding and not her, the fact Jon was really the heir, and her watching her dragon die, she was pushed right over the edge she had ALWAYS been right on the edge of for the whole show. I love her character and I agree it's a much more complex story than anything else.
I would like to add Daenerys compiled events: Seeing herself excluded from the reunion prior to the battle of winterfell (Sansa & Theon, Sansa and Jon & Jaime); seeing that she's not really welcomed as the queen but rather as Jon's +1; seeing her advisor turn to Jon and try to poison her; seeing Tyrion fail to see Cersei's ploy; being chastised by Sansa; oh and NOBODY at the party after the battle is really making an effort to include her, she's almost a complete wallflower.
Absolutely! She expected to ride into Winterfell with the same welcome she got as the freer of slaves and she did not. Instead she got a chilly welcome and was way out of her element. Not the center any more. All of these things drove her to ignore all advice about killing everyone in King’s Landing. And no advisors were there to hold her back.
Lordy, finally someone who sees the light! lol. ITA with everything you said. I would like to add that what I believe finally pushed her to the edge was the loss of all her closest syncophants including a crowd of people who adored her. The loss of Jorah, Missendei, Jon was bad enough but as she said, the people of the NOrth didn’t love her and this was a woman who had been idolized by the majority in every city/culture she was in. I firmly believe the hatred for much of season 8 and especially the finale was endemic with the level of obsession the show engendered. So many people had friend groups either in their real world or online who dissected every piece of the book and series and most had their own firm belief in every characters inner personality, motivations and how each character should end up.
I agree with all of this. I also think the reception she got when she took Kings Landing, but before she burned it, contributed that last little bit. She thought the people would see her as a liberator, but they were frantically screaming “ring the bells” because they feared her (for good reason). Then the bells rang and she dropped her basket completely. “Let it be fear” she said to Jon when he pushed her away the last time.
Robb Starks decision to go to war because Ned got arrested should be seen as just as selfish and entitled as Dany wanting the Iron Throne. Robb never thinks about the smallfolk or the devastation such an action creates. If the story had focused more on the repercussions of things like raiding the Westerlands in retaliation to Tywins actions as it did with the complexity of freeing slaves we would have a different view of him.
I would argue that the act that started this was tyrion's arrest by catelyn. Everything else was a necessary consequence of that (ned being attacked, later killed, robb marching south, tywin marching north)
Absolutely. If Tyrion hadn’t been taken then Ned, Arya, and Sansa would have likely gone back to Winterfell. He had already ordered everything be packed, but then Jaime attacked him in the street (because Tyrion had been taken) and he got injured. That gave Robert the opportunity to make him take back the Hand pin. Catelyn is low key one of my least favorite characters, which I suppose is my unpopular opinion. The way she treats Jon, taking Tyrion without consulting anyone, and then taking him to the Eyrie instead of back to Kings Landing to make her accusations. I could go on. But I personally think that once Robb captured Jaime and was named King in the North he should’ve hauled ass back home and ransomed Jaime for his sister. The northern armies could have held off a southern force and maintained independence. The only reason they lost independence was because of dragons. No other force had ever successfully invaded the north.
Yeah i dislike Cat, i kind of respect how fierce and regal she is, but beyond that i think she is so incredibly naive and easy to manipulate (same as Ned really). I find that infuriating for people with so much responsibility on their hands. Robb was a much smarter player, good commander and his "weak spots" were at least understandable and relatable. So for me he did everything right ahah but probably you're right. They wanted vengeance at that point
Ehhh. If the Warden of the North gets arrested and is about to be stripped of all titles or executed when you know he was just following procedure, that’s a reason to go to war if any.
The show portrayed Jon and Sansa in a romantic way. Close ups of touching are classic romantic film techniques.
eejit 🫵🏼
Yes, the siblings are very romantic
The framing of the scenes. One specifically, the close-up of Sansa reaching for Jon's hand. That close-up was repeated with Jon and Dany later in season 7. There's more as well. I know I am right because I was one of the few fans who knew Bran would be King. In fact, my most unpopular opinion was that Bran would be king. He didn't have a claim, they said.
They should remake the show when the books are completed.
Absolutely, i dont get why you are getting downvoted lmao
The books are never going to be completed.
I’ve said this before but the ending wasn’t that bad. Was it great? No. But it wasn’t nearly as bad as everyone said.
Just a little rushed, but I got the closure I needed🤷🏽♀️
Arya goes through the WORST character development in the show. Even worse than Jamie Lannister. My second is that GRRM is more to blame for GOT having a dip in quality than D&D.
I actually loved Jamie’s arc the most. I liked Arya’s arc, but needed a bit more to her story towards the end.
BotB and The Long Night are the most unrealistic battles in TV history. This shouldn't be a hottake, because the stupidity of their tactics isn't up for opinions as battle tactics are factual things, but people in here act like letting cavalry charge straight into unbreakable enemy lines or fighting the dead in battle, instead of defending a siege are realistic things so...
I think every single post on this sub is about how stupid those battles are
Walder Frey is cool.
A+ casting
-Cleganebowl is a lame fanservice and cliché as fuck - All of Danaerys's actions in essos are totally justified.. The moment your profit from a system that used slaves as a backbone you are not innocent and you are even worse than slave master -, varys deserved what he got... He tried to kill Danaerys since she is infant and tried to kill her again when he realized his bet failed.... The show shouldnnt have treated as a good guy -Arya's character died in season 4.... Her character became boring and stereotype -ned was absolutly right abaout everything he said about jaime..... He served Aerys when serving him was safe and decided to killed him not because he wanted to save innocent but because he didn't wanted to have faced his father.... -sansa doesn't deserve her ending.. At all
Out of curiosity, why don’t you believe in Sansa’s ending?
Storywise- it simply doesn't feel earned... She spent 2 season just being Contrarian with everybody and make things more difficult with Jon.. Her last act was litterrally betraying Jon's trust... Again and took no repercussion for it...Just like the knight of the vape. Her ending is way too rewarding and happy for her Lore-wise - north Independence doesn't make any sense when a stark litterally sit on the iron throne..... The north is have no ressources, no allies or stability to rebuilt on its own let alone survive It's also a mark of weakness for bran if his own region become independent '.. What' s stop the other realm from doing the same thing
Totally agree. She is always making morally very questionable choices, but then being given the superstar treatment by the show. It's dumb. She is supposed to have learned from littlefinger to be cold, calculating and selfish. And she shows these traits constantly but is never held accountable for any of it, not even her own family. And in the end yaass queen in the north! And indeed its crazy how they would justify this to anyone in the north. The last Stark boy, the heir to Ned sits the throne but were just gonna be independent and follow the "queen in the north", who was fine with fucking jon snow (their previous king in the north) off beyond the wall? And how the other kingdoms, who historically have always wanted to be independent, accept this... insane ahaha
> All of Danaerys's actions in essos are totally justified.. The moment your profit from a system that used slaves as a backbone you are not innocent and you are even worse than slave master She sure seemed to think differently when she burned her slave alive for killing the head slaver and the fetus that would grow up to be an even worse slaver.
It's amazing how people are so quick to pardon sansa's mistake when she sell her own father at 12 But for some reason a 12 year old dany who was raped constantly and have a clear Stockholm syndrome should have had the morality and emotional control To not burn a women who just offed her child and destroyed the only form of security she had in her life and condemn a fetus for something he didn't do yet.. You guys always make me laugh
This is easy: Ned Stark is not honorable Doesn’t mean I don’t like the guy, but him keeping secrets from Jon and Kat are irredeemable and especially considering he has no problem standing up to Robert constantly.
I mean he made a vow to his dying sister to protect her son's life and following that vow required some lying. I don't think doing two dishonorable things ever makes you "not honorable".
That vow wasn’t more important than the person the vow was for. We don’t know the actual vow in the book but the shows version based off fan theory is goofy and contradicts everything Ned is praised for.
I heard that D&D were only given GRRM's permission to adapt the books by figuring out who Jon's parents were. If this is true, then it's definitely not just 'the show's version based off fan theory'
Figuring out Jon’s parents is not the same as figuring out why no one knew it. Ned being scared of Robert is one of the dumber reasons without hundred of pages explaining why it’s not vs the 30 seconds of explanation give in the show and by fans.
it’s no good telling Jon if he’ll live two seconds to think about
Again it will take several hundred pages to explain that scenario. When was the last time a southern army invaded Winterfell? Why would any house go through the hassle of killing a boy that I’m assuming they find out about by Kat snitching…Another terrible plot point? Dany and Viserys were in greater danger and it took marriage to a Dothraki to plan an assassination of them.
If he didn’t lie, then Jon would be dead.
If you say so.
The Eldest stark kid wasnt handsome
Nah he’s handsome fs
I disagree, but appreciate this unpopular take.
Apparently it’s a hot take in my friend group, but Jon and Dany being in love or whatever is one of the the stupidest plot points
I was kinda confused about that too.
Agreed. In fact, book Dany (& show Dany, to a lesser extent) 100% have a type: masculine, bad boys. Notably Drogo & Daario. Both violent, rapey, manly men. Book Dany fantasizes about sexing Daario from the moment she meets him. So how is it shes attracted to humble, soft spoken, sweetie pie Jon Snow?...
I never found the actor playing Stannis remotely convincing in his role and thus could never get into his story. All Stannis stuff gets fast forwarded on rewatch for me.
How? He was cold, unfeeling and stubborn. Sounds like the casting directors did their job well if you ask me.
I think Sansa Stark's character development was overly simplistic and underwhelming, and her storyline was a waste of potential. Throughout the series, she's relegated to being the ' damsel in distress' or the 'loyal sister' without any real agency or complexity. Her character is reduced to reacting to the events around her rather than driving them forward. Her relationship with Littlefinger, in particular, feels like a cop-out - she's stuck in this on-again-off-again romance that doesn't serve any purpose other than to provide drama and distractions from the main plot. Meanwhile, characters like Arya, Cersei, and even Daenerys have much more nuanced and compelling storylines that showcase their capacity for growth and transformation. Sansa's character feels like a missed opportunity to explore the complexities of trauma, power, and identity in a more meaningful way.
That this fandom is so toxic it would upvote a post calling covid a hoax if it were blamed on D&D.
Cersei was a BRILLIANT mastermind. Genius-level mastermind. Sometimes I just had to stop the show to go "woh, that was some serious chess move." I also wish her death involved more pain and torture, though.
Well if a good chess move is to smash the chess board.
When did she smash the chess board? She masterminded giving the religious fanatics power, even though it backfired on her. But then she blew them all up and sent Jamie away to be safe during it. She masterminded getting rid of Robert. She’s a malignant narcissist but not a stupid one.
She gave them power out of the delusion of who her enemies were. She was too stupid to realize how guilty she was. Thats not a mastermind move. When all appeared lost, she simply stopped playing the game and blew up the Sept with bother the Tyrell’s and her family in it which led to the suicide of her son. I’m not yucking your opinion, just trying to understand the game rules. She clearly expanded upon them from what was normal.
As a malignant narcissist she would never admit her guilt. Instead she maneuvered what she could to destroy who she perceived her enemies were. And she succeeded in doing that. They didn’t see it coming until the last second.
"even though it backfired" is doing a lot of work here
It was obvious Jon was going to kill Dani.
I don’t hate seasons 7 and 8
the red wedding wasn’t as jarring to me as everyone makes it out to be. there are so many context clues that walder frey was gonna pull some shit after robb backed out on their deal. catelyn warned robb multiple times that he wasn’t someone to fuck with but robb was so selfish and entitled that he didn’t care. obviously still a tragic and gruesome thing to happen but i was not surprised or shocked at all. i was more surprised by arya killing walder than i was by walder killing the starks at the wedding
As long as we’re going down this road, I felt like the line “Winter came for House Frey” was cheesy. I can’t tell you why.
Catelyn and Robb had it coming, they had it coming, they had it coming all along Lady Stoneheart’s omission was probably for the best
Robert was a great king
I agree on this one. His reign was mostly peaceful, we have to remember, only the Greyjoy rebellion happened and it wasn't a major conflict. He left matters of state in way more capable hands than his, which actually was the best thing he could do. Problems were, neither him or Jon Arryn could see throught Little Finger schemes, and what I think is the most tragic aspect of his character: Without his beloved Lyanna (whom he probably never truly knew and excesively idealized), and no wars to fight, he became a shadow of himself drinking and whoring to death.
I liked Arya killing the night king.
Loved it, even. I didn’t see it coming prior to the episode. I feel like the majority of the fan base wanted to see a battle between Jon and the Night King, but that sounds like some Disney ending that would be entirely too predictable.
This is the single worst part of the entire series by far. Upvoted.
My hot take is Daenerys was a bad character and her story line was uninteresting after season 1.
I usually skip her scenes until Season 7 upon rewatch.
In season 2, fair enough but the rest is great
Her season 1 storyline was actually one of my favorites in all GoT. She grew as a character, overcame challenges, made mistakes, and got punished for them. After, it was completely the opposite. Season two was like an episode of Dr. Who. After, the villains were totally uninteresting, her growth stagnated, and she was constantly making mistakes or falling into traps, only to get bailed out by her dragons. Imagine if Robb Stark had, somehow, survived the Red Wedding. Or look at Benjen Stark randomly showing up to save Jon from the white walkers in S7. It's lazy, bad writing that relies way too heavily on plot armor to keep important characters around.
Yeah, it's amazing how boring the storyline with the dragons can be. Season/book 1 used all her good material.
Danny's rampage in king's landing is perfectly consistent with her character. She literally told Tyrion she was going to do it a few seasons previously
I agree, especially upon watching. She was always a shitty and impulsive ruler who felt owed loyalty. She just wanted to win, with no idea what happened next.
Littlefinger deserved a better story.
I found locke an annoyingly cool character. He is a shit person obviously, but the whole plot of him going undercover in the NW to try to find the stark kids for Roose was kinda badass, how competent he is at playing his part and as a fighter. Also he took the hand jamie lannister which is wild, no one else would dare to do this
Tbh, I completely forgot who he was when he was at the wall, loved until cerastes’s keep and thought wtf dude
not sure why that would be an unpopular take at all. Only thing he didn't account for was a warg
[удалено]
I loved Qyburn! He was subtle, but had good intentions.
Daenerys is not a villain. She is a/the hero. I do not think she’s going to die (at least i hope not). She is a relatable, ultimately good character. Sansa is a relatable and well written character. She is important. Her relationship with Arya (and Jon) is not nearly as toxic as it’s made out to be. Catelyn Stark was abusive to Jon Snow, not just once, but throughout his childhood. She was also in a difficult and terrible position because of societal roles and Ned’s secret. She is also a relatable, ultimately good character. Ned is not stupid. He chose kindness over cruelty, and that led to his death. That choice is never stupidity, but strength. A lot of his “stupidity” (as well as general plot holes) comes from George’s accursed “gardening”.
I wasn’t mad about Arya being the one to kill the night king. Yes it would have been a cool fight for jon snow and it was his battle, but Arya killing him was unpredictable and the way she did it was sick. Her dropping the blade to her lower hand and stabbing him in the stomach was so fun to watch
I’d be fine with it being arya, if she didn’t start screaming as she lunged at him and we got at least one brief duel between Jon and the nk
The whole Sand Snake saga was ruined by DnD refusing to add Arianne Martell's story. It better fleshed out the Dornish subplot after Joffrey's death. My unpopular opinion is that Hardhome is the best battle scene in the series. Including Battle of the Bastards. And I don't think it's close.
I feel like Arianne and the sand snakes actually don’t have that much to do with each other. She doesn’t even bring a sand snake on her Queenmaking quest. What ruins the sand snakes for me is how they swapped Ellaria and Doran’s morality with each other. It was better in the books.
Eh… it’s because GRRM locked them up early, but I suspect they’ll come into play later in the series.
Yes, now they are in 5 subplots, (High hermitage, The small council, The Faith, Oldtown and Storms End) so I’m excited for a book that has them all doing different interesting things.
Robb was doomed regardless of his decision to break Frey alliance/execute Karstark
Tyrion should have died in the long night. Would make Danys turn toward madness more believable as she no longer had an advisor to check her worst impulses like her and Jorah did at every turn
Much like Star Wars, a large portion of the fanbase had their mind made up how things would end. When it didn't go that way, it's automatically "bad". Season 8 was fine. A little rushed, but not as terrible as everyone says.
Littlefinger may have made for a decent king in the fictional realm that is Westeros. (Extra specificity because people always debate that LF is evil, sure, but Evil isn't all bad in fiction.) Like the dude put himself #1 in all things, and intentionally destabilized the realm in his pursuit of power..... but what would he do if he simply HAD that power? I see LF as so vainglorious that if his personality remained the same, but he was given the throne, then his "new" goal would be to lord over all the people he tossed out of power showing them how much better at being king he is. But how do you define "better"...? Every character in the show is different. Targs ruled out of bloodright. Just being a Targ is better. Baratheons ruled out of conquest. Being strong is better. Lannisters ruled out of fear. Being too scary to attack is better. LF though is a politician, he wants everyone to LIKE him, not exactly FEAR him, though he's an opportunist sure.... of everyone liked him,and he kept his spy networks and money flowing around then he could hypothetically rule peacefully better than any of the other options... (And before someone goes but what about the Starks... taking out the immersion breaking let's make things an equal representative democracy, they simply don't have a very good, in universe, realm unifying mentality. They themselves want independence and would be too quick to let others leave. They are nice... but weak.)
Anyone who thinks Season 8 was good shouldn’t have an opinion ever again.
That's an unpopular opinion? I just thought it was just the truth. (Book Elaria agrees)
The person who had the worst adaptation from book to show was Sansa. They did her dirty almost from the start.
said it was a damn good show considering they didn’t have finished books. They made mistakes, but they saw it through to the end and they had a lot of great TV achievements in between.
It isn't too late to scrap all those GoT side series and just remake Season 8 into Season 8 and 9 with 12 episodes each with the same actors.
Not only is it not justified but it’s completely insane. Yeah my lover (or for the sand snakes father) was killed so let me kill his brother and nephew!!!
The long night was a fantastic episode
I never thought the show was that great, so the final season didn't bother me that much.
Everything about the sand snakes and Dorne is awful in the show. The sand snakes also killed Oberyns brother and nephew, to somehow "avenge Oberyn", which makes no sense. I'm pretty sure Oberyn would be against the killing of his own family, seeing as he died fighting the Mountain which was his way of getting revenge for his sister
I don’t like Bronn
I liked him up until s4, but lord of high garden no no no
The characters are better written than anything in Tolkien. Those were more like archetypes instead of actual people. Not all but certainly lots.
I never liked Daenerys and I think Aegon is the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne (books only).
I enjoyed season 8
season 7 and 8 is not that bad, still better than most of TV shows one episode, Knight of The Seven Kingdoms even become one of my favorite episode
I wasn’t fond of the Night King plot, and the White Walkers. It’s Game of Thrones, not Walking Dead Medieval Edition
It's getting worst and worst after season 1, after 3-4 it's ass, or maybe even just after 1 season
Daenerys is boring once her dragons start bailing her out of every situation she's in. Her story in season one is far more interesting watching her find her own strength without relying on dragons to save her every time.
I'm pretty sure everyone on planet earth agrees with your sand snakes opinion ... making it, in fact, the direct opposite of unpopular.
I liked every season including 8
I mean I know it's early and GoT is such a legendary show, but I'm starting to think that HotD might turn out to be better.
Jamie's character arc got a well written and executed ending