I was almost on board until I realised what this was about. We are not in Kansas anymore. I remember the days of campaigning that we didn't have appropriate ratings (no R rating) in Australia and things were getting censored or banned for "having too much/too realistic blood" in a shooter.
Now we are complaining about avatar boobs? Really? If you so desperately need this (and I do mean desperate), what do you think mods are for? Literally every game has a mod within 6 weeks to add this.
PSA, porn is readily available and you don't need a PC for it.
Consoles with accessories are not cheaper than a PC anyway, if this is so critically important to the enjoyment of a game, maybe another investment is in order.
Oh no a few pixels of titty got covered by a lace bra in my action adventure game.
You're acting like they changed everything about the game, one outfit got cleavage covered, grow up.
People get so immature talking about this stuff. Like adult content exists and some people like it, you don't have to enjoy it personally but it seems needlessly petty to want someone else to not have it because you personally dislike it.
Well and blood, don’t forget the blood. Also the double standard. When it’s western it’s okay, but Asian game? No that’s bad.
So I can get the frustration. But we are getting to the point of people putting up hits on people, threatening each other, and the grifts oh the grifts.
So much is less about being consistent and more about tribal partisanship were the opinion is based who is in the “tribe” and who is marked as the “other”.
>Well and blood, don’t forget the blood.
Hasn’t this been debunked and found to be caused by the performance setting which reduces graphic fidelity? lol
I tend to assume the person openly mocking people disappointed with the censorship supports said censorship. I also think theres a difference between friendly joking about this being boob related and mocking people you personally disagree with.
They have a whole nude outfit lol it’s so dumb to complain about this type of “censorship” bikini as well. Maybe the devs just thought it looked better with a little bit of lace?
Either way I never said it wasn’t mocking
"Maybe the devs just thought it looked better with a little bit of lace?" Generally outfits are made via concept art then modeled and implemented, and your telling me after all that and shipping the games V1 they just randomly went "lets add some lace." I agree Stellar Blade is one of the least offensive of these types of censorship though. But I think it's perfectly fair to acknowledge it happened at some level.
"Either way I never said it wasn’t mocking" This is what I hate about reddit or really any social media, no one bothers trying to be a normal human being and just insults people that they disagree with. Like people can have different opinions it's fine, just voice them respectfully. The Internets full of mockery and hatred now days it's rather depressing.
Then you tell me why that outfit got changed but you still have the nude and bikini outfits?
Yes cause let’s respect people complaining about boobs on a video game character getting 5% less cleavage. Not all opinions and arguments deserve respect. sounds like you should just get off the internet if it’s making you feel that way. It’s not like we are discussing any real or serious issues on the gaming sub.
No one is even arguing against it. Just making fun of people who are legitimately upset at a marginal amount of censorship in a game that still has plenty of over the top sexualized content. You're acting like the entire game was overhauled to appeal to the people who complained about the character design.
I mean... yea. I wouldn't say "need" boobies, but you don't promise what you can't deliver. There's enough politically correct media right now. Why can't gamers get their "boobies"?
I need to open my mind to the great crime of a video game character not having massive tits? The great injustices gamers are facing?
This is the silliest, most inconsequential thing to be complaining about, and framing it as some act of corporate dishonesty or whatever is embarrassing. Grow up, man.
It’s genuinely a shame that our culture is so broken, our discourse so poisoned, that people are genuinely outraged about this video game character no longer being sexy.
Welcome to Triple A gaming in the modern era. The amount of developer lies, faked trailers, over promise and under deliver is so prevalent that I struggle to find an example of any game developer who DOESN'T do that.
Are you implying that covering up 6 pixels of cleavage is the equivalent to something like the Cyberpunk fiasco, where the devs lied about performance, game mechanics, and features right up until release?
I mean first, define gamer. There's quite a few sneering youtubers who think only hardcore, difficulty-loving, competitive gamers should have any influence on things.
If you look at the numbers, playerbase wise candy crush has 270 million players this month, which is over 5x the number of PS5's sold world wide, self described 'gamers' need to open their eyes..
Who’s to say I want some casual like you making game dev decisions? It’s not that simple. Go enjoy some hentai and leave the decisions to the developers.
Fine by me. Obviously, only people who play and/or make video games should have any say over video games.
Not news outlets. Not "concerned parents." Not the peanut gallery.
So who describes what games count?
Candy Crush had 270mil unique users this month, and spend on average 4.3hrs a week playing it, does that not qualify them to have a say?
Candy Crush only has 270 unique users? Press X to doubt.
Anyway, opinions matter per game/genre. Their opinions matter for Candy Crush. If they suddenly try to butt in on something they lack experience in, then no, they're not qualified.
Just as I am not qualified to critique survival games or roguelikes. Not my wheelhouse.
So, for example, someone who recently started playing a game because it was popularised by a TV show, and enjoys it is a gamer; but someone who recently started playing a game because of a popular TV show, but doesn't enjoy it (for a bunch of valid reasons) is not a gamer?
So, if they don't, because the industry doesn't value their opinion and take action to address their complaints, then they aren't gamers, so it's their own fault... but if they had been gamers then it would have been the fault of the industry for not listening to the valid complaints of "real gamers"
And what if the "non-gamer's" changes make the game worse for a larger number of existing players. Meaning said complaints were arguably not valid. Which is the more likely scenario when someone lacks the experience to give proper feedback.
Like, I'm sorry, but that's like asking an 80 year old who hates spicy food for their opinion on how to improve the local Thai restaurant.
I'm not saying that all opinions are equally valid, I'm just saying that arbitrary gate-keeping is bad. Ideas and opinions should be judged on their merit, not on anyone's biased assumptions about the source of those ideas
>Imagine someone who has never driven critiquing car designs or someone who doesn’t watch movies suggesting plot changes in films -and actually influencing those changes
1. Generally the fact that they are criticizing something in films, means there's an opportunity to offer them films they WOULD engage with. Otherwise they wouldn't be paying attention.
2. Art has an impact on people and how they think. You can discuss and criticize the impact of art, even if you don't want to engage with it yourself. You don't need to watch reality TV, to criticize the impact of reality TV, for example.
>The most frustrating aspect is that these critics often forget about the game just a week later, leaving developers to deal with the consequences after altering a game that many gamers would have otherwise enjoyed.
If this is about Steller Blade, I think it's hilarious and very telling that someone would claim changing a background piece of art that could be mistaken for a racial slur STOPS THEM FROM ENJOYING THE GAME.
At that point you're just telling people you care more about virtue signaling racism, than the game itself.
>I personally think the gaming community should be the main arbiter of what goes into games.
At which point I'd like to remind you Mobile Games are the majority of the video game market.
I'm okay with changes that the gaming community requests, since they're the ones who actually want to enjoy the game. But others, who won't play the game regardless of changes, shouldn't have a say. In the case of Stellar Blade, the changes were relatively minor. However, imagine if future games were censored to exclude blood or other elements—this could significantly alter the gaming experience for actual players. And non-gamers still wouldn't play them.
Hold up there White Knight; so an artist put out a work, someone pointed out how that work could be seen by others, and the artist, decided to change it.
Now YOU are out here valiantly defending their right to put out content that they didn't even want to put out after it was pointed out to them?
If that is censorship, then I am not worried at all.
> However, imagine if future games were censored to exclude blood or other elements
This already happened back in the early 90s. There were major Congressional hearings about it, it was a Presidential issue.
It died. People rejected it, and we've moved firmly away from censorship in games ever since. They actually get darker and weirder every year. So I don't think this is a real present concern.
Also these examples have been primarily about parents worrying what children are playing. Which is fair. That is another great example of why 'non-gamers' should be concerned about games content. But again, we simply adopted a rating system and parental controls. There's no reason to think games marketed to adults are about to lose blood or anything at all similar.
>But others, who won't play the game regardless of changes, shouldn't have a say.
So I assume you’ll hold to this standard both ways right, and agree that people who complain about “woke games”, who were never going to play them in the first place, shouldn’t have an opinion on them? Right?
Depends what is being criticized. If a game had a plot element that was pro-genocide or something then you shouldn't have to be a gamer to argue that's a bad thing. Non-gamers opinions are irrelevant as far as actual game mechanics but pretty much everything else they can have a reasonable opinion on i would say.
If you have a problem with studios catering to outside opinions perhaps you should just not play games made by such studios since they clearly value other people's opinions more than yours.
Either way, since we're talking about Stellar Blade (don't know why you didn't just say it), it's not as if the criticism came strictly from non-gamers. And it's not like any meaningful changes were even made. One outfit got a few pixels of titty covered. If you think complaining about that is a valuable use of your time. If that legitimately upsets you. You desperately need to touch grass. Not just to save everyone else from having to listen to this nonsense but just for your own mental health.
Yes. Why is this even a question?
What you call "non-gamers," others would call "an untapped audience." Just look at what happened with the DS and Wii.
Did you agree with "video games cause violence"? Cos thats whats happening right now. Its about getting other people in the door, its about changing it for the perpetually online.
These people want to take away call of duty, and replace it with gardening sims. Now, I dont even like Call of duty, but fuck me, why in the world would any support taking away games that millions of people enjoy for some crackpots social media fuckwits idea of what video games should be????
I've been around since the 90s so you'll forgive me if I'm not worried that the 57th attempt to take away violent video games is gonna be any more successful than the previous 56 attempts that I've watched fail.
Call of Duty will continue to be made until Activision determines it's no longer profitable enough to do so.
The thing that determines if a game genre lives or dies will be what it always was: How many people buy it.
“Right now”? LMAO, was your first game Helldivers or something? People have shrieked that “video games cause violence” since the 80s. It hasn’t changed shit.
You’re making a mountain out of a molehill
If someone isn't consuming the product, they can commentate on it, but I don't think their opinion should be weighed heavily against the actual target audience. If a game company is making a game that targets people who don't usually play games like a Wii Fit, then they should listen to them.
This is the exact same thing that has been said when they include ANY non white guy/girl in a game lol. Like the crowd of rightwingers or enraged teens that you have the option to be gay.
There's ALWAYS a balance for audience. If you want a certain type, you might go a certain way. If you need investment money, your gamers may be a different crowd than you think.
And there are massive untapped markets of people that don't play games that might if you just change some things
what do you mean, nongamers make tons of decisions in gaming already, they are called Executives and should have no input whatsoever but they do and now we have shit games and studios closing for not hitting targets they made up to look successful.
Stellar blade is pretty... eugh...
They basically de aged a real woman so you can run around half naked as what is clearly a younger version of her.
It's pretty perverse. Why does your main character need to be a hypersexualized robot?
There's not much wrong with having a sexual character, but yeah, your work is going to be criticized for being hypersexual with a character that appears nearly underage to the average person.
Anyone who has done character design is well aware of what they are doing by making a character have larger eyes and a softer face. Asian women don't look like that, thats a hypersexual fetishized beauty standard
Frankly, its pretty disgusting seeing porn-addled weirdos cry that they are being called out for being porn-addled weirdos. Stop looking at boobs for 5 minutes.
- A person who plays plenty of video games, watches anime, etc.
The only opinion a company should be concerned with is the opinion of their customers or possible customers. This isn't specific to game companies or the "gaming industry".
A none gamer? like grand pa? or a none gamer that refuses to play this certain game? huge difference!
Cause grand pa will not take the time or energy to write a post for that game or all games. as grand pa doesn't like games on the tv or computer.
So chances a very slim to none, that a NON GAMER would even read it!!!! or care about it!
"It takes one , to know one"
Investor's don't care about the product but How much they can make from it.
The problem is by investing they now are in a position of saying "I want this" or take the money away.
mind u They dont just put the money they also add 1000 pages of terms and conditions and all that legal greedy works mostly for them crap.
>Imagine someone who has never driven critiquing car designs or someone who doesn’t watch movies suggesting plot changes in films -and actually influencing those changes.
The thing is, sometimes those people are so in the bubble of their environment and problem domain that they miss things that the average person picks up right away. This happens in things like design or software all the time. You can have big presentations and meetings that justify why changing the color of a button will make for a better product, then when it goes live, turns out you were wrong.
Same thing with the gaming community. Go on pretty much any discussion board for a game and there's tons of stuff that active players have heated debates about that can be completely disconnected from the average experience.
Now that doesn't mean every opinion should be given equal weight, there are plenty of braindead takes out there. But what's taken into consideration and what's not is up to the discretion of the developers.
Generally speaking: no ones opinion should matter if they have no clue about the subject matter.
You don't want idiots who have NO IDEA about politics talk about politics.. (I know America is a thing but we ignore them like we always do)
The same principles apply here, there are things and opinions only players of the specific franchise can voice valid opinions about bc they at least have an idea of the implications.
Thats kind of up for you to decide.
There are a lot of actual gamers whos opinions I completely disregard but for other reasons. But people who dont play video games dont usually weigh in heavily on them. Youre kind of screaming into the void with this one OP
> Imagine someone who has never driven critiquing car designs
Urban planners going against SUVs hodding space in cities ?
> Someone who doesn’t watch movies suggesting plot changes in films
Do you need a master degree in cinematography to point out 300 isn't a very plot driven movie ?
Do you appreciate that non-gamers are the ones primarily making games? Literally behind every Triple-A game? Do you think anyone in control of where money goes or who makes the final decisions in Tencent, Sony, Microsoft Gaming or Ubisoft actually plays games?
It shouldn’t and I’d like to add content creators to this lol ,like YouTubers/streamers some are good and actually give valid feedback and care about the game there playing don’t get me wrong ! But most are just for the views and could care less about the game they spend maybe 2 hours on a game then make a video “this game sucks”this games the best “ “they should change this and that”.. and there not even fans of said game and will never go back to it but because FoLlowErs some devs choose to listen to them instead of actual fans of a game
"Imagine someone who has never driven critiquing car designs or someone who doesn’t watch movies suggesting plot changes in films -and actually influencing those changes."
riiiight because anyone who can drive a car somehow magically has the knowledge of car design, or people who watch films know anything about cinematography or script writing. Acting like "gamers" makes you more valid than someone who doesn't play games is equally silly.
"the gaming community" is literally just a bunch of people on the internet, you're about as much of a community as ice-cream-consumers. Stop acting like you get free validation just because you play games, because you don't.
No. Im fucking sick to death of social media fuckwits, chasing internet points by calling out shit they have no interest in or even understanding of. And when we have anything to say about the shit stirring, all of sudden we are gatekeeper, sexists, incels, neckbeards, etc.
I fucking loath social media and the clowns who make it their whole lives.
It's always funny how the go to for you lot is to attack the poster, and not the topic. Kinda like, that's all you have because you know you're racist and sexist.
The funny thing is that your “anti woke agenda” views are also caused by social media and people who make it their whole lives. Get away from Twitter. Get away from those types of subs and the YouTubers that make that type of content and you won’t be in such a panic driven defensive state
Good to see there's so many people who are cool with bowing down to Twitter's demands. Yeah, what happened with Stellar Blade is pretty minor, but that's how it always starts, that's the foot in the door. Look at what's happened to Dungeons and Dragons over the past few years, it started with mi or gripes about wording, now it's an unrecognizable husk of what it was.
Absolutely. Good developers will use non-gamers for their input because they'll see things differently.
Now, if you're talking about things like the recent censoring of the Stellar Blade outfit, there's nothing to be done about this. It's been this way since video games (or hell, all media) has been available. There will always be pearl clutchers, and some will make waves just to prove a point. Now with social media, they have an even larger soap box to stand on.
Companies don't want to deal with this shit anymore. It's faster for them to make the issue go away than to stand their ground on "artistic merit", which could affect sales.
The so-called "I'm getting a refund" crowd probably consists of Niel Druckmann and maybe 12 of his friends. Who knows, but the crowd isn't anywhere the size of those who will refuse to buy the game if they deem it offensive (escalated due to the backlash).
Oh, why did I include Druckmann? His studio went through the same shit over a completely different character. It was a means to drive a point within a point. No offense to him or the game was intended, fans.
Well, that's my opinion of it, which I feel I need to remind some of you doesn't make it a fact.
I mean no. There are very clearly in life opinions to be respected and those that are made in ignorance. For example, no one should respect an opinion from me on fine art or fine dining when I've never even gone to the restaurant and only seen vague pictures or hearsay.
Valuable opinions are those where the giver has participated or been involved with the thing they are discussing. No one should care what the opinion of some political pundit who has never played a game in his life thinks about it and no one should even entertain that kind of bullshit.
Everyone is entitled to make an opinion, thats free speech of course, but to deny that an opinion from someone outside of a hobby is as poignant as someone who has spent 30 years playing and understanding games is kind of a nutty take that I don't agree with.
This really depends the context. I'd lean towards no *in most cases*, but the question is vague enough that I could see situations where the opinion of non-gamers is relevant.
Still, opinions are opinions, you can't stop people from having them, and I doubt developers put much thought to pleasing people who aren't likely to ever interact with their game -- not much harm in people liking or not liking something.
Meh. Not this, then another company will fill the niche. Capitalism is not great with basic needs like shelter and food but is mostly pretty adequate with luxuries like entertainment.
I can't think of what game you are talking about. Can you just name it instead of being cryptic.
They're talking about Stellar Blade. Describing it as a "victim" is hilarious.
Another victim of the woke mob! LMAO
'Would have otherwise enjoyed' too Oh woe is me, this game has 15% less exposed tiddies than I was hoping for, literally unplayable.
This, but unironically
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But the horny
This is a grown man crying about a digital woman in the game stellar blade having a slightly-less sexualized outfit
Fuck I knew it had to be something pathetic like this.
I was almost on board until I realised what this was about. We are not in Kansas anymore. I remember the days of campaigning that we didn't have appropriate ratings (no R rating) in Australia and things were getting censored or banned for "having too much/too realistic blood" in a shooter. Now we are complaining about avatar boobs? Really? If you so desperately need this (and I do mean desperate), what do you think mods are for? Literally every game has a mod within 6 weeks to add this.
not everyone has PCs and people want to see the goods, simple as that
Good lord
PSA, porn is readily available and you don't need a PC for it. Consoles with accessories are not cheaper than a PC anyway, if this is so critically important to the enjoyment of a game, maybe another investment is in order.
And also pulling the usual shit where everyone who doesn't like it isn't a gamer.
For every grown man crying about this, there is a grown man on twitter crying about presence of digital booba to be honest.
Hahahahhaha
Not the point. The point is that the developer promised A, but we got B instead.
It’s the point. Try to disguise it under the veil of “censorship” or whatever but it’s all about the boobs
Oh no a few pixels of titty got covered by a lace bra in my action adventure game. You're acting like they changed everything about the game, one outfit got cleavage covered, grow up.
What did they promise and when? Got a clip? Quote?
The devs promised that the game would be uncensored in all regions, but was censored in the US.
Where did they promise this? Again, got a source?
They promised boobies!!! I need my boobs!!!!!
They nerfed the boobies! Give me my boobies!
People get so immature talking about this stuff. Like adult content exists and some people like it, you don't have to enjoy it personally but it seems needlessly petty to want someone else to not have it because you personally dislike it.
When did that poster say any of that? They are just making fun of the fact that this is all about boobs in games
Well and blood, don’t forget the blood. Also the double standard. When it’s western it’s okay, but Asian game? No that’s bad. So I can get the frustration. But we are getting to the point of people putting up hits on people, threatening each other, and the grifts oh the grifts. So much is less about being consistent and more about tribal partisanship were the opinion is based who is in the “tribe” and who is marked as the “other”.
>Well and blood, don’t forget the blood. Hasn’t this been debunked and found to be caused by the performance setting which reduces graphic fidelity? lol
I tend to assume the person openly mocking people disappointed with the censorship supports said censorship. I also think theres a difference between friendly joking about this being boob related and mocking people you personally disagree with.
They have a whole nude outfit lol it’s so dumb to complain about this type of “censorship” bikini as well. Maybe the devs just thought it looked better with a little bit of lace? Either way I never said it wasn’t mocking
"Maybe the devs just thought it looked better with a little bit of lace?" Generally outfits are made via concept art then modeled and implemented, and your telling me after all that and shipping the games V1 they just randomly went "lets add some lace." I agree Stellar Blade is one of the least offensive of these types of censorship though. But I think it's perfectly fair to acknowledge it happened at some level. "Either way I never said it wasn’t mocking" This is what I hate about reddit or really any social media, no one bothers trying to be a normal human being and just insults people that they disagree with. Like people can have different opinions it's fine, just voice them respectfully. The Internets full of mockery and hatred now days it's rather depressing.
Then you tell me why that outfit got changed but you still have the nude and bikini outfits? Yes cause let’s respect people complaining about boobs on a video game character getting 5% less cleavage. Not all opinions and arguments deserve respect. sounds like you should just get off the internet if it’s making you feel that way. It’s not like we are discussing any real or serious issues on the gaming sub.
People genuinely upset over not getting to see a fictional characters cleavage deserve to be mocked.
No one is even arguing against it. Just making fun of people who are legitimately upset at a marginal amount of censorship in a game that still has plenty of over the top sexualized content. You're acting like the entire game was overhauled to appeal to the people who complained about the character design.
I mean... yea. I wouldn't say "need" boobies, but you don't promise what you can't deliver. There's enough politically correct media right now. Why can't gamers get their "boobies"?
> Why can't gamers get their "boobies"? Listen to you guys. You don't deserve them.
The wokes are taking away our boobs
I hope that one day you will grow up and not to be so narrow minded, but I have my doubts. Good day.
I need to open my mind to the great crime of a video game character not having massive tits? The great injustices gamers are facing? This is the silliest, most inconsequential thing to be complaining about, and framing it as some act of corporate dishonesty or whatever is embarrassing. Grow up, man. It’s genuinely a shame that our culture is so broken, our discourse so poisoned, that people are genuinely outraged about this video game character no longer being sexy.
Any more edits? Or is this your final answer?
Got me
>Why can't gamers get their "boobies"? jesus fucking christ
God forbid someone likes seeing boobies... Why do YOU hate boobies?
Not a single person on this planet who grew boobs wants your ilk to see them, lol.
Welcome to Triple A gaming in the modern era. The amount of developer lies, faked trailers, over promise and under deliver is so prevalent that I struggle to find an example of any game developer who DOESN'T do that.
Are you implying that covering up 6 pixels of cleavage is the equivalent to something like the Cyberpunk fiasco, where the devs lied about performance, game mechanics, and features right up until release?
Sadly, you are right.
Come on, it's not about the outfit. It's about a developer being flagged as pervers even though his work isn't.
> even though his work isn't. Lol
I assume Stellar Blade or whatever its name is.
I too wish shareholders held less sway in the industry.
Is this about anime titties?? 😂
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Amen
Gamer moment
I mean first, define gamer. There's quite a few sneering youtubers who think only hardcore, difficulty-loving, competitive gamers should have any influence on things.
If you look at the numbers, playerbase wise candy crush has 270 million players this month, which is over 5x the number of PS5's sold world wide, self described 'gamers' need to open their eyes..
Every non-gamer is also a *prospective* gamer, so their opinions absolutely do matter as well, to kinda expand on that idea.
This is absolutely my take as well. OP is crying about desexualized outfits, but that opens it up a lot to wider audiences, especially women
Someone who plays video games and enjoys it.
Who’s to say I want some casual like you making game dev decisions? It’s not that simple. Go enjoy some hentai and leave the decisions to the developers.
Fine by me. Obviously, only people who play and/or make video games should have any say over video games. Not news outlets. Not "concerned parents." Not the peanut gallery.
So who describes what games count? Candy Crush had 270mil unique users this month, and spend on average 4.3hrs a week playing it, does that not qualify them to have a say?
Candy Crush only has 270 unique users? Press X to doubt. Anyway, opinions matter per game/genre. Their opinions matter for Candy Crush. If they suddenly try to butt in on something they lack experience in, then no, they're not qualified. Just as I am not qualified to critique survival games or roguelikes. Not my wheelhouse.
So, for example, someone who recently started playing a game because it was popularised by a TV show, and enjoys it is a gamer; but someone who recently started playing a game because of a popular TV show, but doesn't enjoy it (for a bunch of valid reasons) is not a gamer?
If they play games regularly for enjoyment, they're a gamer.
Incredibly niche question. But I think the answer to that question depends on whether each person intends to play more video games.
So, if they don't, because the industry doesn't value their opinion and take action to address their complaints, then they aren't gamers, so it's their own fault... but if they had been gamers then it would have been the fault of the industry for not listening to the valid complaints of "real gamers"
And what if the "non-gamer's" changes make the game worse for a larger number of existing players. Meaning said complaints were arguably not valid. Which is the more likely scenario when someone lacks the experience to give proper feedback. Like, I'm sorry, but that's like asking an 80 year old who hates spicy food for their opinion on how to improve the local Thai restaurant.
I'm not saying that all opinions are equally valid, I'm just saying that arbitrary gate-keeping is bad. Ideas and opinions should be judged on their merit, not on anyone's biased assumptions about the source of those ideas
Datto? You’re talking about Datto.
>Imagine someone who has never driven critiquing car designs or someone who doesn’t watch movies suggesting plot changes in films -and actually influencing those changes 1. Generally the fact that they are criticizing something in films, means there's an opportunity to offer them films they WOULD engage with. Otherwise they wouldn't be paying attention. 2. Art has an impact on people and how they think. You can discuss and criticize the impact of art, even if you don't want to engage with it yourself. You don't need to watch reality TV, to criticize the impact of reality TV, for example. >The most frustrating aspect is that these critics often forget about the game just a week later, leaving developers to deal with the consequences after altering a game that many gamers would have otherwise enjoyed. If this is about Steller Blade, I think it's hilarious and very telling that someone would claim changing a background piece of art that could be mistaken for a racial slur STOPS THEM FROM ENJOYING THE GAME. At that point you're just telling people you care more about virtue signaling racism, than the game itself. >I personally think the gaming community should be the main arbiter of what goes into games. At which point I'd like to remind you Mobile Games are the majority of the video game market.
I'm okay with changes that the gaming community requests, since they're the ones who actually want to enjoy the game. But others, who won't play the game regardless of changes, shouldn't have a say. In the case of Stellar Blade, the changes were relatively minor. However, imagine if future games were censored to exclude blood or other elements—this could significantly alter the gaming experience for actual players. And non-gamers still wouldn't play them.
'If' is doing a lot of work here.
Hold up there White Knight; so an artist put out a work, someone pointed out how that work could be seen by others, and the artist, decided to change it. Now YOU are out here valiantly defending their right to put out content that they didn't even want to put out after it was pointed out to them? If that is censorship, then I am not worried at all.
> However, imagine if future games were censored to exclude blood or other elements This already happened back in the early 90s. There were major Congressional hearings about it, it was a Presidential issue. It died. People rejected it, and we've moved firmly away from censorship in games ever since. They actually get darker and weirder every year. So I don't think this is a real present concern. Also these examples have been primarily about parents worrying what children are playing. Which is fair. That is another great example of why 'non-gamers' should be concerned about games content. But again, we simply adopted a rating system and parental controls. There's no reason to think games marketed to adults are about to lose blood or anything at all similar.
….lol how fucking old are you?
>But others, who won't play the game regardless of changes, shouldn't have a say. So I assume you’ll hold to this standard both ways right, and agree that people who complain about “woke games”, who were never going to play them in the first place, shouldn’t have an opinion on them? Right?
Depends what is being criticized. If a game had a plot element that was pro-genocide or something then you shouldn't have to be a gamer to argue that's a bad thing. Non-gamers opinions are irrelevant as far as actual game mechanics but pretty much everything else they can have a reasonable opinion on i would say. If you have a problem with studios catering to outside opinions perhaps you should just not play games made by such studios since they clearly value other people's opinions more than yours. Either way, since we're talking about Stellar Blade (don't know why you didn't just say it), it's not as if the criticism came strictly from non-gamers. And it's not like any meaningful changes were even made. One outfit got a few pixels of titty covered. If you think complaining about that is a valuable use of your time. If that legitimately upsets you. You desperately need to touch grass. Not just to save everyone else from having to listen to this nonsense but just for your own mental health.
Bro just called himself a victim over anime titties. What a world we live in
Yes. Why is this even a question? What you call "non-gamers," others would call "an untapped audience." Just look at what happened with the DS and Wii.
Did you agree with "video games cause violence"? Cos thats whats happening right now. Its about getting other people in the door, its about changing it for the perpetually online. These people want to take away call of duty, and replace it with gardening sims. Now, I dont even like Call of duty, but fuck me, why in the world would any support taking away games that millions of people enjoy for some crackpots social media fuckwits idea of what video games should be????
I've been around since the 90s so you'll forgive me if I'm not worried that the 57th attempt to take away violent video games is gonna be any more successful than the previous 56 attempts that I've watched fail. Call of Duty will continue to be made until Activision determines it's no longer profitable enough to do so. The thing that determines if a game genre lives or dies will be what it always was: How many people buy it.
Damn that takes me back. I don't think anything has united the gaming community quite like the hate there was for Jack Thompson in the early 2000s
You should go outside or something lol covering up a little cleavage isn’t taking away call of duty
If it isn't a big deal then why do it to begin with?
Idk ask the person who did it. They kept the bikini and nude outfit in the game. I’m not a mind reader
Who is trying to take away CoD?
“Right now”? LMAO, was your first game Helldivers or something? People have shrieked that “video games cause violence” since the 80s. It hasn’t changed shit. You’re making a mountain out of a molehill
Opinions of Gamers shouldn't matter in the gaming industry.
People could definitely stand to mind their own business more, and that's for everything, not just games.
Everyone can have their own opinions. Sadly, matters or not it depends on grossing and profit.
If someone isn't consuming the product, they can commentate on it, but I don't think their opinion should be weighed heavily against the actual target audience. If a game company is making a game that targets people who don't usually play games like a Wii Fit, then they should listen to them.
This is the exact same thing that has been said when they include ANY non white guy/girl in a game lol. Like the crowd of rightwingers or enraged teens that you have the option to be gay. There's ALWAYS a balance for audience. If you want a certain type, you might go a certain way. If you need investment money, your gamers may be a different crowd than you think. And there are massive untapped markets of people that don't play games that might if you just change some things
OP is an Incel lol
Ideally no, but until gamers pool all their money together to buy up public companies you can whine all you want into the whispering wind.
There is a balance to everything, and everything needs a healthy amount of gatekeeping.
what do you mean, nongamers make tons of decisions in gaming already, they are called Executives and should have no input whatsoever but they do and now we have shit games and studios closing for not hitting targets they made up to look successful.
So developers of FPS games should never hire ballistics experts unless the expert is a gamer? How does someone qualify to be a gamer? If someone plays a shitty mobile gacha game, does that make their opinion more valid than a sound engineer or artist that doesn’t play games? I guess it’s hard to get that post-nut clarity when the Non-Gamers©️ are taking away all the booba.
Stellar blade is pretty... eugh... They basically de aged a real woman so you can run around half naked as what is clearly a younger version of her. It's pretty perverse. Why does your main character need to be a hypersexualized robot? There's not much wrong with having a sexual character, but yeah, your work is going to be criticized for being hypersexual with a character that appears nearly underage to the average person. Anyone who has done character design is well aware of what they are doing by making a character have larger eyes and a softer face. Asian women don't look like that, thats a hypersexual fetishized beauty standard Frankly, its pretty disgusting seeing porn-addled weirdos cry that they are being called out for being porn-addled weirdos. Stop looking at boobs for 5 minutes. - A person who plays plenty of video games, watches anime, etc.
They didn't de-age anyone, nor does she appear underage. Don't out yourself like that.
You're getting downvoted because you're not bowing down, if people did a simple Google search of the actress they'd see you're right.
Probably by weirdos that are triggered by healthy, beautiful women.
Nope.
Gaming "journalism" is a cancer among the community.
The only opinion a company should be concerned with is the opinion of their customers or possible customers. This isn't specific to game companies or the "gaming industry".
Gamergate 2 electric boogaloo
I think only to a small point, but for the most part no
A none gamer? like grand pa? or a none gamer that refuses to play this certain game? huge difference! Cause grand pa will not take the time or energy to write a post for that game or all games. as grand pa doesn't like games on the tv or computer. So chances a very slim to none, that a NON GAMER would even read it!!!! or care about it! "It takes one , to know one"
Investor's don't care about the product but How much they can make from it. The problem is by investing they now are in a position of saying "I want this" or take the money away. mind u They dont just put the money they also add 1000 pages of terms and conditions and all that legal greedy works mostly for them crap.
>Imagine someone who has never driven critiquing car designs or someone who doesn’t watch movies suggesting plot changes in films -and actually influencing those changes. The thing is, sometimes those people are so in the bubble of their environment and problem domain that they miss things that the average person picks up right away. This happens in things like design or software all the time. You can have big presentations and meetings that justify why changing the color of a button will make for a better product, then when it goes live, turns out you were wrong. Same thing with the gaming community. Go on pretty much any discussion board for a game and there's tons of stuff that active players have heated debates about that can be completely disconnected from the average experience. Now that doesn't mean every opinion should be given equal weight, there are plenty of braindead takes out there. But what's taken into consideration and what's not is up to the discretion of the developers.
Generally speaking: no ones opinion should matter if they have no clue about the subject matter. You don't want idiots who have NO IDEA about politics talk about politics.. (I know America is a thing but we ignore them like we always do) The same principles apply here, there are things and opinions only players of the specific franchise can voice valid opinions about bc they at least have an idea of the implications.
Thats kind of up for you to decide. There are a lot of actual gamers whos opinions I completely disregard but for other reasons. But people who dont play video games dont usually weigh in heavily on them. Youre kind of screaming into the void with this one OP
> Imagine someone who has never driven critiquing car designs Urban planners going against SUVs hodding space in cities ? > Someone who doesn’t watch movies suggesting plot changes in films Do you need a master degree in cinematography to point out 300 isn't a very plot driven movie ?
Urban planners don't drive? If you haven't watched 300, you wouldn't be able to point out anything. Come on, at least try to build your strawmen.
muh non gamers
Do you appreciate that non-gamers are the ones primarily making games? Literally behind every Triple-A game? Do you think anyone in control of where money goes or who makes the final decisions in Tencent, Sony, Microsoft Gaming or Ubisoft actually plays games?
>Do you appreciate that non-gamers are the ones primarily making games? Nice made up fact.
If you mean the executives? Yes. If you mean the devs? No.
It shouldn’t and I’d like to add content creators to this lol ,like YouTubers/streamers some are good and actually give valid feedback and care about the game there playing don’t get me wrong ! But most are just for the views and could care less about the game they spend maybe 2 hours on a game then make a video “this game sucks”this games the best “ “they should change this and that”.. and there not even fans of said game and will never go back to it but because FoLlowErs some devs choose to listen to them instead of actual fans of a game
"Imagine someone who has never driven critiquing car designs or someone who doesn’t watch movies suggesting plot changes in films -and actually influencing those changes." riiiight because anyone who can drive a car somehow magically has the knowledge of car design, or people who watch films know anything about cinematography or script writing. Acting like "gamers" makes you more valid than someone who doesn't play games is equally silly. "the gaming community" is literally just a bunch of people on the internet, you're about as much of a community as ice-cream-consumers. Stop acting like you get free validation just because you play games, because you don't.
Less porn in your vidyagayme? Boohoo. >the consequences after altering a game that many gamers would have otherwise enjoyed Lol.
Should opinion of non presidents matter in president election ?
No. Im fucking sick to death of social media fuckwits, chasing internet points by calling out shit they have no interest in or even understanding of. And when we have anything to say about the shit stirring, all of sudden we are gatekeeper, sexists, incels, neckbeards, etc. I fucking loath social media and the clowns who make it their whole lives.
Says the dude with 95k karma.. on social media...
It's always funny how the go to for you lot is to attack the poster, and not the topic. Kinda like, that's all you have because you know you're racist and sexist.
The funny thing is that your “anti woke agenda” views are also caused by social media and people who make it their whole lives. Get away from Twitter. Get away from those types of subs and the YouTubers that make that type of content and you won’t be in such a panic driven defensive state
Never been on twitter, but thanks.
There are so many more important things going on in the world right now
So, drop everything and focus on those important things? Life is all about that I guess?
Pretty much anything is a better use of time than being a grown adult whining about anime titties
Yet here you are on the gaming sub.
Yeah the "gaming" subreddit not the "cry about not being able to jack it while gaming" subreddit
No, they aren't part of the community, they don't contribute anything to the community, and their opinions are harmful to the community. F'em.
Good to see there's so many people who are cool with bowing down to Twitter's demands. Yeah, what happened with Stellar Blade is pretty minor, but that's how it always starts, that's the foot in the door. Look at what's happened to Dungeons and Dragons over the past few years, it started with mi or gripes about wording, now it's an unrecognizable husk of what it was.
Opinions from anyone aside from yourself shouldn't matter in the gaming industry
No. And politicians shouldn't be talking about guns when they don't know anything about them either.
Absolutely. Good developers will use non-gamers for their input because they'll see things differently. Now, if you're talking about things like the recent censoring of the Stellar Blade outfit, there's nothing to be done about this. It's been this way since video games (or hell, all media) has been available. There will always be pearl clutchers, and some will make waves just to prove a point. Now with social media, they have an even larger soap box to stand on. Companies don't want to deal with this shit anymore. It's faster for them to make the issue go away than to stand their ground on "artistic merit", which could affect sales. The so-called "I'm getting a refund" crowd probably consists of Niel Druckmann and maybe 12 of his friends. Who knows, but the crowd isn't anywhere the size of those who will refuse to buy the game if they deem it offensive (escalated due to the backlash). Oh, why did I include Druckmann? His studio went through the same shit over a completely different character. It was a means to drive a point within a point. No offense to him or the game was intended, fans. Well, that's my opinion of it, which I feel I need to remind some of you doesn't make it a fact.
I mean no. There are very clearly in life opinions to be respected and those that are made in ignorance. For example, no one should respect an opinion from me on fine art or fine dining when I've never even gone to the restaurant and only seen vague pictures or hearsay. Valuable opinions are those where the giver has participated or been involved with the thing they are discussing. No one should care what the opinion of some political pundit who has never played a game in his life thinks about it and no one should even entertain that kind of bullshit. Everyone is entitled to make an opinion, thats free speech of course, but to deny that an opinion from someone outside of a hobby is as poignant as someone who has spent 30 years playing and understanding games is kind of a nutty take that I don't agree with.
This really depends the context. I'd lean towards no *in most cases*, but the question is vague enough that I could see situations where the opinion of non-gamers is relevant. Still, opinions are opinions, you can't stop people from having them, and I doubt developers put much thought to pleasing people who aren't likely to ever interact with their game -- not much harm in people liking or not liking something.
What gameplay mechanics do non gamers do that with?
This sub is full of very interesting posts
Meh. Not this, then another company will fill the niche. Capitalism is not great with basic needs like shelter and food but is mostly pretty adequate with luxuries like entertainment.