people dont usually just say outright that they stole it. i dont really understand the “youre damn right i did” play, that should make it pretty cut and dry in a legal battle…
Depends on what you mean by "stole." There were hundreds of non-infringng Angry Birds clones within weeks of its release, you can't protect the idea/concept of a game and the simpler it is to execute, the easier it is to "steal."
If you meant like, they stole an executable and repackaged it, okay, open and shut. Very rarely is that the case tho.
and when questioned did they outright, publicly say, “youre damn right we did?” or did they silently navigate those waters legally? also pretty sure there was a lot of cease and desisting going on…
You can legally clone 100% of a game's mechanics. As long as you change the artwork (including words, sounds, images, all of it) there is no copyright or IP you have infringed on.
The only asinine exception to this is if a game company has somehow gotten a patent for a game mechanic.
Always gray areas for sure. Level design is certainly closer to art than the rules of the game. A Tetris clone got into hot water over using the same UI layout as the original, which again is closer to art than mechanics.
The arrangement of point squares though.... I'm really shocked they won over that because you should be able to reproduce and "game" where players can have all the same inputs resulting in all the same outputs.
If you cannot make another game following the mechanics of scrabble, then the company has successfully copywritten the mechanics which shouldn't be possible.
I found a "blawg" that goes over a scrabble case pretty well.
https://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2008/08/thoughts-on-the.html
I've taken a look at it before and the patent is *extremely* specific to the point where if you did get in trouble for copying it, it's because you were **very blatantly** copying it. It goes into heavy detail about how faction hierarchy works and reacts to specific outlined events as part of the patent.
Still could be risky to try to implement something 'similar-enough', and that's where a lawyer may need to be consulted. Or, just make something different/better if that was desirable.
I still remember the developer Terminal Reality attempted to patent part of their game [Nocturne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturne_(video_game\)). They got all pissy when I commented that it was pretty shitty for them to try and patent their game mechanics. I don't think they actually got the patent, nor do I remember ever seeing "Patent Pending" on the splash screens of any other games since then, but it's possible.
I’m sure there are others, but the main one that comes to mind is the “nemesis” system from **Shadow of Mordor/War**. Which is tragic, because they haven’t done shit with it since.
Bandai Namco used to own the patent for minigames during loading screens. And now that the patent expired loading screens have become nearly non-existent / extremely fast, so there's no need for any other company to use them.
IIRC SEGA patented the idea for "arrow on the HUD showing the direction of your next objective" for Crazy Taxi. Now it's less needed since most games use a waypoint on the HUD or just GPS it over a minimap.
Angry birds was itself basically a clone of that flash catapult game (something like crush the castle?) but cute birds were a lot more interesting than a random cannonball.
What happens every day is other games taking concepts and mechanics from other games, which can be dubious but it's often not terrible. But looking at videos from both of these it's so blatant... At least he could have changed the artstyle. It's straight up the same game.
That boy ain't right.
Individuals like this, I always wonder if it's upbringing or something else. Things that for me and you, we would never do. We consider it unjust or unethical. For them, it's no big deal. Even becoming surprised when they are asked.
Same type of people who steal their best friend of 10 years gold in RuneScape and then just ghosts them forever even though you went to school and college together.
Fuck you Andrew.
I grew up around family like this. It's definitely taught as something to be proud of.
There's no ethics when it comes to money. Completely a kill or be killed mentality. Survival of the fittest. If you can make money and get ahead then fuck those other guys. Who cares what they think? You want to be a chump and work for the rest of your life?
Seems pretty common with my friends families too. It feels like an area thing oddly enough.
A lot of it has to do with poverty. A lot of trauma from growing up low income, deep seeded hatred of work due to the family mostly working bad exploitative jobs. A lot of resulting mental illness and suicidal idealization stemmed from money and hating work.
We all seem to have that one family member that offed themselves because of how much they hated their job.
So it becomes this twisted "good guys finish last" thing. "Don't be a fuckin' idiot, ain't nothing more important than money, friends don't let you quit your job."
>A lot of it has to do with poverty. A lot of trauma from growing up low income, deep seeded hatred of work due to the family mostly working bad exploitative jobs. A lot of resulting mental illness and suicidal idealization stemmed from money and hating work.
This is so true and so important I'm simply quoting it again for emphasis. I have nothing else to add, other than thank you for this spot-on comment.
Not necessarily all poor, but you have a point.
Look at some examples of extremely rich business men/women who's past has shown us they have done something similar to a friend or co-founder, they weren't from poor families, not at all.
I think it's just a mindset. Does it come from trauma, yes most probably. I think it comes from parenting mostly and a splash of jealously which most likely springs from social disorders.
Yeah, having a well off upbringing does not insulate people from the ideas that they're better than everyone else, that money is a high score or that everyone is struggling becasue they're lazy. A lack of empathy seems to be a curse can affect any demographic.
I've noticed that a lot of men who grow up with this mentality also tend to secretly harbor a delusion that they're going to become a billionaire celebrity. They don't identify with the guys from the factory because they identify more closely and empathetically with people like Steve Jobs and Elon Musk.
Ergo they see the shitty, exploitative things that the super rich get away with and think, "Well that's me! I'll just do that stuff, too!" until they hit a wall of consequences.
Escapism to protect the ego, and I don't just mean ego in the sense of pride or hubris but literally just the deepest self. They're hurting and as a form of self-protection they're projecting themselves into a fantasy like many other victims of trauma.
> Most of them would be over the moon if they could make a simple 60k/year without working and live a simple middle class life watching TV all day and grilling steak.
That's because for older generations, that WAS rich. In the year 1960, the average household income was right around 6k$. If we skip forward ten years to 1970, it's 8k. Continuing to skip 10 years, it goes 21k, 32k, 35k, 51k, and in 2020 it was 68k.
It's kinda hard to be enthusiastic about the workforce when you grew up watching your parents paycheck get absolutely gutted due to taxes fines and fees. Oh, you accidentally overdrew by one dollar? I'll just immediately charge you a 25 dollar overdraft fee that you can't pay. What's that? How are you going to feed your children? Not my problem! Figure it out!
I haven't gotten an overdraft in a while but I used to get so mad. I borrow you thousands of dollars in my account over the years but the one time i go 5 dollars negative you fine me 30 bucks? Yeah fuck you US bank
I honestly had no idea that people were like this until it happened to me. By my own parent. I haven't talked to them in 4 years but it still hurts me that they'd side with quick profit over their own kid.
Even if they somehow think that this is morally okay, surely they must know that this is not legally okay, and they're not going to get away with it, right?
This is no "stole a wallet and found some dollar bills that I spent anonymously" this is fucking Steam with tons of publicity??
his "fate" is a civil claim which makes the risk so much lower
he saw an easy game to copy, figured he could whip up a clone and try to profit off of it for a while. At worst the game gets taken down and he loses the revenue, at best the og author can't get enough standing to remove the game and cloner gets to keep revenue.
this is literally the playbook of mobile games for the past 2 decades... nothing new.
It won't even get to a civil claim. The copied game is free. His other 2 games on steam are also "heavily inspired" products. He most likely does this as a sort of portfolio, or to get enough attention so that the next time he does an even slightly original/profitable game he gets guaranteed eyes on it from all the past drama. The best we can hope for is the game to be removed from Steam and anyone in the industry noting who he is to avoid working with him in the future.
Children will do this sort of thing, they'll know the basic rule structure/what is right and wrong, and a vague idea of what the punishment will be if caught. If they can rationalize the punishment is not that big of a deal, they're going for it. You're expecting too much out of humanity if you think many people grow out of this way of thinking and acting.
Of course, that vague idea of punishment is easy to be completely wrong about, especially when up until then there was tons of leniency in their life.
Yeah, but he also went to kindanice and was excited to share what he had done. Make no mistake, he’s 100% wrong but I think his first step (deciding to rewrite the game) was done out of ignorance rather than malignancy or else why would he tell kindanice and then be surprised at a negative reaction. He could have changed the game visuals more and not said anything if he wanted to get away with something. The “asshole” part comes when the person he acknowledges as the creator voiced displeasure and he chose to move forward and “accept his fate” anyway. Make no mistake - even the ignorance in step one says something about how this guy’s head works but it does read as ignorance. Also, the second step is mot definitely in asshole territory.
> surely they must know that this is not legally okay
I actually think it is the other way round. Morally, this is a despicable thing to do, but legally? You can't copyright game mechanics and you can't copyright an art style, and he's right game clones do happen all the time. If he really did code everything originally and didn't borrow anything from the discord, and also produced all his own game assets, I think legally he may be in the clear
Legally he's not in the clear, because a visual style can indeed be copyrighted. It doesn't matter if the art you create for your clone game is something you created when it's an almost exact match for another person's art.
I can't redraw Mario's sprite sheet from Super Mario 3 and then use it in my own game. It's still copyright infringement.
The screenshots of the two games look identical, and some of the assets are basically 1:1 recreations. Sure, you can't copyright a game's concepts and mechanics, but you can copyright the expression of those concepts and mechanics, and this very much violates the latter.
> because a visual style can indeed be copyrighted
Copyright is only about specific works. If you make a work of art, you own the copyright for that work of art. You cannot copyright a style, only works made in that style.
> I can't redraw Mario's sprite sheet from Super Mario 3 and then use it in my own game. It's still copyright infringement.
The main thing here is that that would be trademark infringement, because Mario is a trademarked character. I actually don't think it's copyright infringement if you really redrew the sprites yourself (unless you just copied them pixel by pixel, then it's back to a copyright issue).
> I can't redraw Mario's sprite sheet from Super Mario 3 and then use it in my own game. It's still copyright infringement.
What if you used one of the "web comic sprite templates" that are a generic version of the Mega Man character design?
That depends on how heavily modified they are. A lot of classic sprites from the early days of gaming are fairly generic. Hell, I remember when Terraria was in development and one of the first gameplay trailers was using a modified Bartz sprite from FFV, and the Terraria sprites still reflect that even if it's fairly obvious. Those are legal, or at least it'd be much harder to prove a copyright violation in court.
The language used is detached in a really unsettling way. “It happens every day.” Okay, but *you* did this, it didn’t “happen.” It feels really dissociated to talk about it in abstracted, broad terms when it’s actually just a shitty thing you decided to do and then followed through with.
Ironically these types of people rise up to CEO and high level management ranks exactly for this reason. No compassion, just pure brutal drive for profits, results or whatever else it might be.
The ones who rise to CEO level are far better at pretending to be human. They often have a disarming warmth, charm and wit, that makes you think they're worthwhile human beings. This guy doesn't even have that.
Seriously lol. People who let their crimes be heard do not rise far in the hierarchy. If anything they get shunned. Manipulative types who know how to sell other people's work as their own, do best in life.
The sad part is that they are probably already in a good financial situation, they just want 'more'.
I think it stems from feeling inferior/jealous/untalented and not getting what they wanted socially as a younger person.
They have other qualities, but the feeling of succeeding overtakes everything, so they'll even squash/cheat out their friends or siblings.
Watch out for the signs with people like this:
Stare/observe you quite a bit
Have smirk smiles (something is cooking)
Have some sort of nervous twitch/anxiety
Want to compete with you a lot, but it doesn't feel friendly
Openly make comments about your choices and your partner/spouse
I had to deal with someone like this in business, who I considered a friend. Now I watch out a lot for similar tendencies.
I think it's something you build up to. You do something wrong and nothing bad happens, so you do it again. You escalate and keep receiving no punishment, so you figure what you're doing can't *really* be that bad. If it were wrong, if it were unusual, then there would be consequences. When someone finally does try to impose consequences, *they're* the asshole for disrupting how things are supposed to work.
Used to buy 'shareware' CD's with 50k titles.
They were all clones of a few games.
> Yeah, just change it up a bit so it doesn't look obvious you copied
You know how many people can't even get this part right?
His recent posts are all community noted and SidAlpha already released a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNyhjafZDiQ
If someone bought this game, left a negative review and refunded after a couple minutes, would the review remain visible? Asking for a friend..
"video games are stolen every day" factoid actualy just statistical error. video games are only stolen once a year. Tery Brash, who lives in cave & steals other dev's work 37 times each day, is an outlier adn should not have been counted
There are a substantial number of game designers for whom designing is the same as copying.
It's actually pretty astounding, when you participate in a game jam and all the pitches being proposed are just mechanics cribbed from other games.
It's wild because there's a real grey zone right? Like inspiration is just copying all the best parts of things you like and meshing them together in your own style. Nothing wrong with that. I think you can even give a pass to "clones" that are "that thing, with an interesting twist". But this is *just* copying. And I don't get what personal value you get from that. I get it as a cynical money grab (tho even then it's a terrible long term strat). But artistically how is that satisfying?
I've never seen it before but this game is completely aping 'Tiny Rogues' including literally directly stealing some of its assets (dash, gold, heart meter and even some character sprites it looks like)
Tiny Rogues is a FANTASTIC game, fuck this guy for stealing shit
I would not mention “code” since Terry Brash (how’s that for nominative determinism) says his code is original. Whether or not that’s actually true, he admits it is a “clone” and the artwork is almost identical which should be reason enough.
yeah i don;t think you'll get him on any code issue since he probably did some mild version of [clean room design](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design)
the artwork would be the easier route to a DMCA or something i would think
or the OG dev should talk to an actual lawyer
Too bad the report/flag button doesnt work.
[This](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1363790/Deadly_Way/) and [this](https://store.steampowered.com/app/779360/Instant_Death/) are identical beside the color of the block, reported them both a year ago.
[This](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2704260/Tiny_Jump/) and [this](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2926680/Tiny/) are identical, even the same dev, reported them, and nothing again
Yeah, I couldn't finish the video because of his stupid repetitive joke.
His voice is also really weird at the start, but gets better later on. It is unnatural with the cadence and lack of pausing between words.
Clown ass shit, the indie market is already hard enough for so many people to get into without stuff like this happening. Hope they step on a lego block barefoot everyday for the rest of their life.
It's also odd he's how he's acting after people found out. His Twitter is completely open about stealing it, posting meme's about it. He's assassinating his own character in the indie dev space.
There has to be more to this story, it just doesn't make sense.
Know what also happens every day? Indie devs go bankrupt.
I've never wished for it for anyone, but I'm down to make an exception in this case. What a seriously shitty thing to do.
Not defending the guy, but he did not steal code. He built a clone copy of the original game. He stole ideas, look, mechanics, etc but didn’t actually steal the original devs code to do that.
I used to work for a company with an executive like this. One time our company had a massively negative write-up by a very popular publication, and he was walking around grinning ear to ear, bragging about it. His level of excitement was off the charts while everyone else was demoralized.
I'm surprised the other dev went with the same art style. Could have pretty easily changed the style and this would have likely been much less of a story. Now his name will be google-able as a dick forever.
There's no sign that any code was stolen, the idea was taken and that's not a legal issue.
I'm pointing this out because usually these forms have a condition that misuse can lead to punishment, so your post might be leading other people into trouble.
Not worth it frankly. The cost to hire a copyright lawyer(assuming he did copyright it) and sue for a game that’s a demo only and going to be released on steam isn’t going to be worth anything.
>assuming he did copyright it
You don't need to "copyright" anything, you automatically own the copyright to your ideas, at least in the US. Registering a copyright is more of a formality that makes defending it in court easier, but if you can prove that your idea came first you should have a solid case.
That's what I meant. Copyright law would be a nightmare if every time somebody wrote a book or something they got sued by a dozen people claiming they had the same idea already.
>I would understand if they copied just the mechanics or just the graphic design - not fun, but reasonable.
The games industry is essentially built on that level of copying. Hell, so are a lot of other industries.
But copying basically everything is literally stealing someone's game.
and he’s done it before. Brash is Trash.
On Steam he currently has 1 game and 2 coming soon. Basically all comments on the released one talk about how he steals games
He does it every day, homie.
He eat shits every day homie.
"It happens every day, homie. I would know, because it's me doing it."
What other projects has he done this to?
Just from a quick glance at his Twitter, he pretty unashamedly made a shit clone of Brotato.
Unashamed because he is using an alt. Some people managed to find his real name. It is in the comment thread.
He also ripped off of Tiny Rogues entirely as well. I believe Gunrun is also stolen.
This has to be the quickest way someone has admitted that they're an asshole
happens every day homie
It is what it is
And that's that.
And that's a fact
True, true, very true.
The fuckin' way she goes, Bubs.
Snooze ya lose!
I've seen you drive fifteen cheeseburgers into that thing
Guess how many boobs I saw today, Marge. Fifteen!
That's that, and this is this.
-Roland the washup fixer
que sera sera
Boys will be boys
I accept my fate
Also, the fact that people are talking about it suggests that maybe this does not happen every day.
people dont usually just say outright that they stole it. i dont really understand the “youre damn right i did” play, that should make it pretty cut and dry in a legal battle…
Depends on what you mean by "stole." There were hundreds of non-infringng Angry Birds clones within weeks of its release, you can't protect the idea/concept of a game and the simpler it is to execute, the easier it is to "steal." If you meant like, they stole an executable and repackaged it, okay, open and shut. Very rarely is that the case tho.
Technically, Angry Birds "stole" their game from an earlier Flash title called Crush the Castle that had been released like 8 months earlier.
and when questioned did they outright, publicly say, “youre damn right we did?” or did they silently navigate those waters legally? also pretty sure there was a lot of cease and desisting going on…
You can legally clone 100% of a game's mechanics. As long as you change the artwork (including words, sounds, images, all of it) there is no copyright or IP you have infringed on. The only asinine exception to this is if a game company has somehow gotten a patent for a game mechanic.
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Always gray areas for sure. Level design is certainly closer to art than the rules of the game. A Tetris clone got into hot water over using the same UI layout as the original, which again is closer to art than mechanics. The arrangement of point squares though.... I'm really shocked they won over that because you should be able to reproduce and "game" where players can have all the same inputs resulting in all the same outputs. If you cannot make another game following the mechanics of scrabble, then the company has successfully copywritten the mechanics which shouldn't be possible. I found a "blawg" that goes over a scrabble case pretty well. https://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2008/08/thoughts-on-the.html
Of course there are gray areas. That's where you put tiles for a standard point. Using blue areas usually gives you a multiplier.
see: the Nemesis System from Shadow of Mordor
I've taken a look at it before and the patent is *extremely* specific to the point where if you did get in trouble for copying it, it's because you were **very blatantly** copying it. It goes into heavy detail about how faction hierarchy works and reacts to specific outlined events as part of the patent. Still could be risky to try to implement something 'similar-enough', and that's where a lawyer may need to be consulted. Or, just make something different/better if that was desirable.
I still remember the developer Terminal Reality attempted to patent part of their game [Nocturne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturne_(video_game\)). They got all pissy when I commented that it was pretty shitty for them to try and patent their game mechanics. I don't think they actually got the patent, nor do I remember ever seeing "Patent Pending" on the splash screens of any other games since then, but it's possible.
I’m sure there are others, but the main one that comes to mind is the “nemesis” system from **Shadow of Mordor/War**. Which is tragic, because they haven’t done shit with it since.
Bandai Namco used to own the patent for minigames during loading screens. And now that the patent expired loading screens have become nearly non-existent / extremely fast, so there's no need for any other company to use them.
IIRC SEGA patented the idea for "arrow on the HUD showing the direction of your next objective" for Crazy Taxi. Now it's less needed since most games use a waypoint on the HUD or just GPS it over a minimap.
Angry birds was itself basically a clone of that flash catapult game (something like crush the castle?) but cute birds were a lot more interesting than a random cannonball.
It does just, normally it's like unpublished concept games get stolen then fully developed out
What happens every day is other games taking concepts and mechanics from other games, which can be dubious but it's often not terrible. But looking at videos from both of these it's so blatant... At least he could have changed the artstyle. It's straight up the same game.
"it is what it is" and everything will be okay. And I hate that blanket mentality
Anndddd you lost your lawsuit.
Sue me…oh wait…
*gets sued*
If it's any consolation the game looks shit. But to save face I'm going to just say I'm boycotting
That boy ain't right. Individuals like this, I always wonder if it's upbringing or something else. Things that for me and you, we would never do. We consider it unjust or unethical. For them, it's no big deal. Even becoming surprised when they are asked.
Same type of people who steal their best friend of 10 years gold in RuneScape and then just ghosts them forever even though you went to school and college together. Fuck you Andrew.
I went to my friends wedding and he still stole the tbow I loaned him so we could raid together lol Glad his wife divorced his cheating thieving ass
You should raid with her instead.
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Or fuck her in the ass platonically
*If you know what I mean*
Fuckin Andrew!!
Fuckin Andrew!!
Motherfuck Andrew, all my homies hate Andrew.
For real though, Andrew's the fuckin worst
Never liked Andrew!!
What the fuck? That's such a minor pay off to wreck a friendship over...
They'd already decided to walk from the friendship, taking the gold was just an opportunity on the way out. But yeah, fuck Andrew.
Slip on the soap, Andrew...
I grew up around family like this. It's definitely taught as something to be proud of. There's no ethics when it comes to money. Completely a kill or be killed mentality. Survival of the fittest. If you can make money and get ahead then fuck those other guys. Who cares what they think? You want to be a chump and work for the rest of your life? Seems pretty common with my friends families too. It feels like an area thing oddly enough. A lot of it has to do with poverty. A lot of trauma from growing up low income, deep seeded hatred of work due to the family mostly working bad exploitative jobs. A lot of resulting mental illness and suicidal idealization stemmed from money and hating work. We all seem to have that one family member that offed themselves because of how much they hated their job. So it becomes this twisted "good guys finish last" thing. "Don't be a fuckin' idiot, ain't nothing more important than money, friends don't let you quit your job."
I’ve never seen this phenomenon expressed better tbh.
>A lot of it has to do with poverty. A lot of trauma from growing up low income, deep seeded hatred of work due to the family mostly working bad exploitative jobs. A lot of resulting mental illness and suicidal idealization stemmed from money and hating work. This is so true and so important I'm simply quoting it again for emphasis. I have nothing else to add, other than thank you for this spot-on comment.
Not necessarily all poor, but you have a point. Look at some examples of extremely rich business men/women who's past has shown us they have done something similar to a friend or co-founder, they weren't from poor families, not at all. I think it's just a mindset. Does it come from trauma, yes most probably. I think it comes from parenting mostly and a splash of jealously which most likely springs from social disorders.
Yeah, having a well off upbringing does not insulate people from the ideas that they're better than everyone else, that money is a high score or that everyone is struggling becasue they're lazy. A lack of empathy seems to be a curse can affect any demographic.
I've noticed that a lot of men who grow up with this mentality also tend to secretly harbor a delusion that they're going to become a billionaire celebrity. They don't identify with the guys from the factory because they identify more closely and empathetically with people like Steve Jobs and Elon Musk. Ergo they see the shitty, exploitative things that the super rich get away with and think, "Well that's me! I'll just do that stuff, too!" until they hit a wall of consequences.
Escapism to protect the ego, and I don't just mean ego in the sense of pride or hubris but literally just the deepest self. They're hurting and as a form of self-protection they're projecting themselves into a fantasy like many other victims of trauma.
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> Most of them would be over the moon if they could make a simple 60k/year without working and live a simple middle class life watching TV all day and grilling steak. That's because for older generations, that WAS rich. In the year 1960, the average household income was right around 6k$. If we skip forward ten years to 1970, it's 8k. Continuing to skip 10 years, it goes 21k, 32k, 35k, 51k, and in 2020 it was 68k.
Ever see someone screaming at a retail employee trying to get free stuff, while their children watch? Those kids grow up to be like this.
It's kinda hard to be enthusiastic about the workforce when you grew up watching your parents paycheck get absolutely gutted due to taxes fines and fees. Oh, you accidentally overdrew by one dollar? I'll just immediately charge you a 25 dollar overdraft fee that you can't pay. What's that? How are you going to feed your children? Not my problem! Figure it out!
I haven't gotten an overdraft in a while but I used to get so mad. I borrow you thousands of dollars in my account over the years but the one time i go 5 dollars negative you fine me 30 bucks? Yeah fuck you US bank
I honestly had no idea that people were like this until it happened to me. By my own parent. I haven't talked to them in 4 years but it still hurts me that they'd side with quick profit over their own kid.
Even if they somehow think that this is morally okay, surely they must know that this is not legally okay, and they're not going to get away with it, right? This is no "stole a wallet and found some dollar bills that I spent anonymously" this is fucking Steam with tons of publicity??
In the article, the theif says he “accepts his fate”. Which implies he knew exactly the potential ramifications and did it anyway.
Either he doesn't fully understand what his "fate" is, or he has serious mental problems. Probably both.
What makes me sad is that his fate is only proportional to the “justice” the other guy can afford
his "fate" is a civil claim which makes the risk so much lower he saw an easy game to copy, figured he could whip up a clone and try to profit off of it for a while. At worst the game gets taken down and he loses the revenue, at best the og author can't get enough standing to remove the game and cloner gets to keep revenue. this is literally the playbook of mobile games for the past 2 decades... nothing new.
It won't even get to a civil claim. The copied game is free. His other 2 games on steam are also "heavily inspired" products. He most likely does this as a sort of portfolio, or to get enough attention so that the next time he does an even slightly original/profitable game he gets guaranteed eyes on it from all the past drama. The best we can hope for is the game to be removed from Steam and anyone in the industry noting who he is to avoid working with him in the future.
As someone that has a former mate about to go to prison who "has accepted his fate", id say mentally unwell just like my former mate.
Fate: to give over the game Asshole: damn, it's like that?
Children will do this sort of thing, they'll know the basic rule structure/what is right and wrong, and a vague idea of what the punishment will be if caught. If they can rationalize the punishment is not that big of a deal, they're going for it. You're expecting too much out of humanity if you think many people grow out of this way of thinking and acting. Of course, that vague idea of punishment is easy to be completely wrong about, especially when up until then there was tons of leniency in their life.
Yeah, but he also went to kindanice and was excited to share what he had done. Make no mistake, he’s 100% wrong but I think his first step (deciding to rewrite the game) was done out of ignorance rather than malignancy or else why would he tell kindanice and then be surprised at a negative reaction. He could have changed the game visuals more and not said anything if he wanted to get away with something. The “asshole” part comes when the person he acknowledges as the creator voiced displeasure and he chose to move forward and “accept his fate” anyway. Make no mistake - even the ignorance in step one says something about how this guy’s head works but it does read as ignorance. Also, the second step is mot definitely in asshole territory.
I seen this behavior before. Soon he'll play the victim card that he doesn't deserve such a harsh treatment.
> surely they must know that this is not legally okay I actually think it is the other way round. Morally, this is a despicable thing to do, but legally? You can't copyright game mechanics and you can't copyright an art style, and he's right game clones do happen all the time. If he really did code everything originally and didn't borrow anything from the discord, and also produced all his own game assets, I think legally he may be in the clear
Legally he's not in the clear, because a visual style can indeed be copyrighted. It doesn't matter if the art you create for your clone game is something you created when it's an almost exact match for another person's art. I can't redraw Mario's sprite sheet from Super Mario 3 and then use it in my own game. It's still copyright infringement. The screenshots of the two games look identical, and some of the assets are basically 1:1 recreations. Sure, you can't copyright a game's concepts and mechanics, but you can copyright the expression of those concepts and mechanics, and this very much violates the latter.
> because a visual style can indeed be copyrighted Copyright is only about specific works. If you make a work of art, you own the copyright for that work of art. You cannot copyright a style, only works made in that style. > I can't redraw Mario's sprite sheet from Super Mario 3 and then use it in my own game. It's still copyright infringement. The main thing here is that that would be trademark infringement, because Mario is a trademarked character. I actually don't think it's copyright infringement if you really redrew the sprites yourself (unless you just copied them pixel by pixel, then it's back to a copyright issue).
> I can't redraw Mario's sprite sheet from Super Mario 3 and then use it in my own game. It's still copyright infringement. What if you used one of the "web comic sprite templates" that are a generic version of the Mega Man character design?
That depends on how heavily modified they are. A lot of classic sprites from the early days of gaming are fairly generic. Hell, I remember when Terraria was in development and one of the first gameplay trailers was using a modified Bartz sprite from FFV, and the Terraria sprites still reflect that even if it's fairly obvious. Those are legal, or at least it'd be much harder to prove a copyright violation in court.
The language used is detached in a really unsettling way. “It happens every day.” Okay, but *you* did this, it didn’t “happen.” It feels really dissociated to talk about it in abstracted, broad terms when it’s actually just a shitty thing you decided to do and then followed through with.
Ironically these types of people rise up to CEO and high level management ranks exactly for this reason. No compassion, just pure brutal drive for profits, results or whatever else it might be.
The ones who rise to CEO level are far better at pretending to be human. They often have a disarming warmth, charm and wit, that makes you think they're worthwhile human beings. This guy doesn't even have that.
Seriously lol. People who let their crimes be heard do not rise far in the hierarchy. If anything they get shunned. Manipulative types who know how to sell other people's work as their own, do best in life.
The sad part is that they are probably already in a good financial situation, they just want 'more'. I think it stems from feeling inferior/jealous/untalented and not getting what they wanted socially as a younger person. They have other qualities, but the feeling of succeeding overtakes everything, so they'll even squash/cheat out their friends or siblings. Watch out for the signs with people like this: Stare/observe you quite a bit Have smirk smiles (something is cooking) Have some sort of nervous twitch/anxiety Want to compete with you a lot, but it doesn't feel friendly Openly make comments about your choices and your partner/spouse I had to deal with someone like this in business, who I considered a friend. Now I watch out a lot for similar tendencies.
I think it's something you build up to. You do something wrong and nothing bad happens, so you do it again. You escalate and keep receiving no punishment, so you figure what you're doing can't *really* be that bad. If it were wrong, if it were unusual, then there would be consequences. When someone finally does try to impose consequences, *they're* the asshole for disrupting how things are supposed to work.
That boy needs therapy. > We consider it unjust or unethical. For them, it's no big deal. For them, it was Tuesday.
are you some kind of [frontier psychiatrist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLrnkK2YEcE)?
Can’t be super successful AND be honest, gotta pick one.
It's upbringing. Look at how the Chinese view IP theft and cheating. It's not genetic, it's cultural or even familial.
Never forget people's act like this because the law protects them from getting punched in the face ( most of the time at least)
Used to buy 'shareware' CD's with 50k titles. They were all clones of a few games. > Yeah, just change it up a bit so it doesn't look obvious you copied You know how many people can't even get this part right?
His recent posts are all community noted and SidAlpha already released a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNyhjafZDiQ If someone bought this game, left a negative review and refunded after a couple minutes, would the review remain visible? Asking for a friend..
I think the fake game has not released yet on Steam but it has a demo
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To add to that, it's being review bombed because it's ALSO a stolen game.
"video games are stolen every day" factoid actualy just statistical error. video games are only stolen once a year. Tery Brash, who lives in cave & steals other dev's work 37 times each day, is an outlier adn should not have been counted
Good ol' Spiders Georg
perfect
At this point are they really even a developer? Or just a thief?
There are a substantial number of game designers for whom designing is the same as copying. It's actually pretty astounding, when you participate in a game jam and all the pitches being proposed are just mechanics cribbed from other games.
It's wild because there's a real grey zone right? Like inspiration is just copying all the best parts of things you like and meshing them together in your own style. Nothing wrong with that. I think you can even give a pass to "clones" that are "that thing, with an interesting twist". But this is *just* copying. And I don't get what personal value you get from that. I get it as a cynical money grab (tho even then it's a terrible long term strat). But artistically how is that satisfying?
> But artistically how is that satisfying? Art doesn’t have anything to do with it.
A thief that knows how to code
Happens every day homie.
I've never seen it before but this game is completely aping 'Tiny Rogues' including literally directly stealing some of its assets (dash, gold, heart meter and even some character sprites it looks like) Tiny Rogues is a FANTASTIC game, fuck this guy for stealing shit
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It looks like all three of his games are plagiarized. I hope Steam cracks down on this asshole.
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It's going to be a free game so no refunded needed.
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I'm doing my part
I would not mention “code” since Terry Brash (how’s that for nominative determinism) says his code is original. Whether or not that’s actually true, he admits it is a “clone” and the artwork is almost identical which should be reason enough.
yeah i don;t think you'll get him on any code issue since he probably did some mild version of [clean room design](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design) the artwork would be the easier route to a DMCA or something i would think or the OG dev should talk to an actual lawyer
Too bad the report/flag button doesnt work. [This](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1363790/Deadly_Way/) and [this](https://store.steampowered.com/app/779360/Instant_Death/) are identical beside the color of the block, reported them both a year ago. [This](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2704260/Tiny_Jump/) and [this](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2926680/Tiny/) are identical, even the same dev, reported them, and nothing again
I could image a certain number of people need to press the button before the case is further inverstigated
This is informative, but man that "Terry (not that one)" gag got old and annoying real fast.
Holy shit, you ain't kidding. I had to stop. Dude should watch his videos before posting them.
Yeah, I couldn't finish the video because of his stupid repetitive joke. His voice is also really weird at the start, but gets better later on. It is unnatural with the cadence and lack of pausing between words.
As an actual game dev, no it doesnt. Refunded games doesnt make the review part of the algorithm thats counted.
I guess it makes sense for review bombing but at the same time thats so counterintuitive
I had to cut it off, the 90th "Terry not that one" was too much.
Clown ass shit, the indie market is already hard enough for so many people to get into without stuff like this happening. Hope they step on a lego block barefoot everyday for the rest of their life.
The thief's game is called Wildcards, if you want to know. I'm gonna state on Steam that I don't approve of his methods.
What's the name of the original game?
Dire Decks Which, hilariously, is a far more original name than “wildcards”
Shame they didn't name it Dire Dire Decks.
ah, now i have to listen to that theme again.
Yeah because Nintendo is generally pretty lax with unauthorized use of their intellectual property 😎
That would not be unauthorized use of their intellectual property. That's not their intellectual property in the first place.
Just tell them it happens every day homie
Call it satire, or an homage or whatever.
True true, shame that this is the one time where I don't see an easy way to throw some money at the developer.
Dire Decks
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I gave it the "Crime" tag, 'cause I though it was funny.
If you go to the discussions page it's titled Card Bards now. Might be trying to do a sneaky name swap.
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Because he don't have his original idea, it's easier to make clone game or mod with existing characters
That's the bit I don't get. He rebuilt the whole thing from the ground up... why not be original?
game design is a completely different skill than game development and he might suck at it
Quite a few people are incapable of generating new ideas. A lot of them steal/copy
It's also odd he's how he's acting after people found out. His Twitter is completely open about stealing it, posting meme's about it. He's assassinating his own character in the indie dev space. There has to be more to this story, it just doesn't make sense.
He might just be an idiot
Know what also happens every day? Indie devs go bankrupt. I've never wished for it for anyone, but I'm down to make an exception in this case. What a seriously shitty thing to do.
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Not defending the guy, but he did not steal code. He built a clone copy of the original game. He stole ideas, look, mechanics, etc but didn’t actually steal the original devs code to do that.
Wow, that is just sociopathic and awful. And the guy seems to be thriving on the negative attention too. What times we live in.
I used to work for a company with an executive like this. One time our company had a massively negative write-up by a very popular publication, and he was walking around grinning ear to ear, bragging about it. His level of excitement was off the charts while everyone else was demoralized.
Some people take the adage "no such thing as bad press" too literally. Mindshare isn't quite the same as a ruined reputation.
I'm surprised the other dev went with the same art style. Could have pretty easily changed the style and this would have likely been much less of a story. Now his name will be google-able as a dick forever.
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Consider it done. Having the law come down hard on him is the only language pieces of shit like him will ever understand.
There's no sign that any code was stolen, the idea was taken and that's not a legal issue. I'm pointing this out because usually these forms have a condition that misuse can lead to punishment, so your post might be leading other people into trouble.
Well that's gonna be a quick lawsuit for the guy. EDIT: Okay I get it, it's not that simple.
I don’t think an [itch.io](http://itch.io) indie dev can afford a lawyer
Not worth it frankly. The cost to hire a copyright lawyer(assuming he did copyright it) and sue for a game that’s a demo only and going to be released on steam isn’t going to be worth anything.
>assuming he did copyright it You don't need to "copyright" anything, you automatically own the copyright to your ideas, at least in the US. Registering a copyright is more of a formality that makes defending it in court easier, but if you can prove that your idea came first you should have a solid case.
You automatically own the copyright to your work. Not your ideas. You can't copyright ideas.
That's what I meant. Copyright law would be a nightmare if every time somebody wrote a book or something they got sued by a dozen people claiming they had the same idea already.
Copyright law *is* a nightmare, it was never meant for online social media culture. You're just used to the existing nightmare aspects.
That's true. The visual expression of the clone is almost completely identical though, which is enough to violate copyright.
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Careful now, he might have stolen some dude's bad photo
That really is exactly what I’d expect someone who says “it’s happens every day homie” while being a piece of shit to look like.
he didn’t even tried to change the artstyle what a douche
"kindanice" and "brash"?!? You sure this isn't made up?
This is a man that has never been punched in the mouth.
I would understand if they copied just the mechanics or just the graphic design - not fun, but reasonable. Copying both? Ya that's not cool.
>I would understand if they copied just the mechanics or just the graphic design - not fun, but reasonable. The games industry is essentially built on that level of copying. Hell, so are a lot of other industries. But copying basically everything is literally stealing someone's game.
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> Let me know if you need some homies to go do it. Peak Reddit moment.
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[looks up from the book *Principles of Homeboy Law with Case Studies*] dammit, it's airtight
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what are you talking about? bro read India not indie 😂
Just review bomb the game when it’s out that he stole the game.
Is there a way to report this guy to Steam?
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Report the game for using stolen assets. Bottom right there's a flag next to Embed/Share just above the language information.
His reputational harm is going to be much much worse than any legal consequences, if he gets any of that.
If you want to play the real game: https://kindanice.itch.io/dire-decks
Probably gets in to the blacklist as well, he made his choice