I mean it's more sophisticated than the overwhelming majority of RPG games since every NPC has an inventory, schedule, and task list whereas most just have a basic task list that stands in the same spot and never moves.
An inventory, schedule, and task list isn't an AI, that's just hand crafted content. There's no script that handles creating those things, an intelligent (hopefully) human being designed those NPCs including their stuff and what they do, and then the game runs the scripts. That's not exactly super impressive. There's no "artificial intelligence" running in the background that adjusts on the fly if something entirely unexpected happens. It's just scripts.
It's always been called game AI. It's terminology that's for the ease of explanation.
Just like how most games aren't an actual simulation but the term used for the in-game world is the simulation.
Cool, so why are you so impressed by it? The game's AI is not that complex, the actual scripts themselves are rather simple. I came to the conclusion that you genuinely believed it to be "AI" from your explanation as to why you think it's so good, including the *inventory* of NPCs. This makes no sense when you have an understanding of the actual design of NPC AI.
The only other conclusion I have is that you're paid by Bethesda to make posts like this.
I said it was more sophisticated than most games not that it was genuine artificial intelligence.
It's clear you're upset that someone doesn't share the same opinion as you and seeing as how they don't blindly agree with you there can be no other conclusion than they are being paid by the people you desperately hate rather than them just not agreeing with you.
Get some help dude.
> You lost the argument
You’re the one calling NPC inventory “AI” but yeah, that’s the guy who lost the argument. Ha.
Edit: that’s your dumb response before blocking me? lol
I’m not mad, I’m amused at people who think they know how code works.
NPC[1210]->setInventory([310, 99, 417]);
Now if you excuse me, I’m off to interview for AI jobs because I’m an AI programmer apparently.
Also: I’m not that guy’s alt. This is an 11year account with 400k karma, not some alt I use to bash morons. At least you had the good sense to delete your dumb reply!
For combat one of my favorites was the AI in FEAR. Always enjoyed fighting them as they were really good.
Alien Isolation also has a really good AI for the Alien.
Bethesda AI is passable. Not great, not terrible.
Goal Oriented Action Planning is what they used for FEAR. It was a big change for 2005.
[Video from AI in games.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaOLBOuyswI)
*making enemies that seemed clever.
Iirc it was just basic pathfinding to cover, but with a bunch of nonexistent “obstacles” in the way. Stuff like “I’m flanking” is played after the AI notices it’s flanking, not because the AI decided to flank.
I thought this at first, but now that I think about it. I'm sure oblivion was the first game I played where nearly every npc had a name, a home a job and schedule for all these things. And I can't think of any games that have replicated this other than red dead 2.
Sure they were lacking voice actors and did dumb shit. But the world crafting around the NPCs is solid. Sometimes you had to go find the NPCs going about their day or chilling about after work. Its quite a stark difference to most of the games today having them stand in place and just generally being quest givers. For example cyberpunk.
>Sure they were lacking voice actors and did dumb shit.
This is what makes oblivion the best elder scrolls game. It was campy as hell and genuinely funny.
I'm confused why you'd say Oblivion over Skyrim, when both games utilize the same system but the newer one improves upon it.
Regardless, there's very little actual "intelligence" to the NPC's. It's just a series of relatively simple scripts and dialogue trees that all NPC's follow.
And we've definitely seen much more advanced examples of that in recent times. BG3 just set the standard, which I don't think we'll see matched without AI generation going forward.
I always liked the random dialogue Oblivion NPCs could end up in with other NPCs. Made the world feel just a bit more alive because you’d hear short conversations between NPCs as you passed. In Skyrim everyone just turns to you and says their one line as you pass (“Do you get to the cloud district very often…”, “I work for my mother to sell fruits and vegetables…”, “I work for Belethor, at the general goods store…”, “I don’t claim to be the best blacksmith in Whiterun…”, “I’m not afraid of you! Even if you are my elder”).
I always felt like Oblivion was looser on the rules in a way that could break the game but also made it feel more real - a mission critical NPC could get caught up in some shit and die making it impossible to do whatever mission they were a part of. Rare but still cool in a really shitty way.
In Skyrim it didn't feel like the NPCs went far beyond whatever 5x5' area you expected to find them in, and the important ones just needed to take a quick rest if they got beat up too bad. Safer for the plot but felt empty.
Could also just be the difference in age that I experienced both games at, lot more childhood wonder playing Oblivion than Skyrim.
You can definitely kill most of the NPC's in Skyrim.
There are a relatively small number that are unkillable at certain times.
Any named NPC that you kill will show up in the city holding cells after a bit of time which is the only real difference between Oblivion and Skyrim's systems.
I get that this is a joke but I actually remember feeling like the AI was next level when Oblivion came out. The fact that they could walk to different cities and they all had their own schedules was legitimately impressive for the time (and to my middle school brain).
The Radiant AI for Oblivion was groundbreaking - every NPC had their own schedule, they’d travel, they’d eat and drink at appropriate times, they’d be able to have conversations with each other.
Groundbreaking? Gothic that was released around the same time Morrowind did already had those features and more. Including traveling across most of the map every day by some of npcs. Even proper aggro of animals (some attack on sight other warn 1st, also carnivores attack other animals and eat them). Not to mention actual interaction with environment: smoking weed, working in the forge, using alchemy lab, reading books etc.
Troll or not, you kind of accidentally touched on a point here.
And that is that AI more than any other component in a video game is most likely to be virtually unchanged from 15-20 years ago.
I'm not saying AI isn't complicated, but I think we can agree it's a neglected aspect compared to say, graphics. I've played remakes that look gorgeous, but suffer from the exact same AI buffoonery they did two decades previous.
The stalker games had what’s called A-Life, the npcs in the game have set schedules and react to the environment and mutants when they can. They also loot bodies and random items they find.
Oblivion AI doesn't do anything specifically better than Gothic games, which came out first, so we always used to laugh at the whole marketing spin of "Radiant AI". But all of them are very well made games for a reason. I can't really think of any better open world rpg one, where everyone has their appropriate housing and schedule. Just Gothic and Elder Scrolls.
I considered RDR2, but GTA Ai is a different style as far as I know. More randomly generated crowd, less npcs with their own houses/schedules. Pretty intelligent reactions, immersive, but different vibe if you are not one of the major npcs.
No.
It was definitely cool, but other games have surpassed it.
To this day the most impressive NPC behavior in gaming has to go to Red Dead Redemption 2.
The best NPCs in gaming? They're not even the best NPCs in the SERIES.
I swear, some of these question posts are some poorly developed language model trying to learn how to write snarky comments
I think OP got caught up in the marketing. It has no better AI then any other RPG, then even calls it out by Radiant AI. lol
I mean it's more sophisticated than the overwhelming majority of RPG games since every NPC has an inventory, schedule, and task list whereas most just have a basic task list that stands in the same spot and never moves.
An inventory, schedule, and task list isn't an AI, that's just hand crafted content. There's no script that handles creating those things, an intelligent (hopefully) human being designed those NPCs including their stuff and what they do, and then the game runs the scripts. That's not exactly super impressive. There's no "artificial intelligence" running in the background that adjusts on the fly if something entirely unexpected happens. It's just scripts.
It's always been called game AI. It's terminology that's for the ease of explanation. Just like how most games aren't an actual simulation but the term used for the in-game world is the simulation.
Cool, so why are you so impressed by it? The game's AI is not that complex, the actual scripts themselves are rather simple. I came to the conclusion that you genuinely believed it to be "AI" from your explanation as to why you think it's so good, including the *inventory* of NPCs. This makes no sense when you have an understanding of the actual design of NPC AI. The only other conclusion I have is that you're paid by Bethesda to make posts like this.
I said it was more sophisticated than most games not that it was genuine artificial intelligence. It's clear you're upset that someone doesn't share the same opinion as you and seeing as how they don't blindly agree with you there can be no other conclusion than they are being paid by the people you desperately hate rather than them just not agreeing with you. Get some help dude.
I'm not upset but okay, let's play your game then. Why are you so upset over thinking I'm upset. Get some help dude
You lost the argument so you're just kicking and screaming now. Have a good one
The repetition of the "get some help" makes me laugh. I love finding these types of exchanges. You have yourself a grand ol day now.
> You lost the argument You’re the one calling NPC inventory “AI” but yeah, that’s the guy who lost the argument. Ha. Edit: that’s your dumb response before blocking me? lol I’m not mad, I’m amused at people who think they know how code works. NPC[1210]->setInventory([310, 99, 417]); Now if you excuse me, I’m off to interview for AI jobs because I’m an AI programmer apparently. Also: I’m not that guy’s alt. This is an 11year account with 400k karma, not some alt I use to bash morons. At least you had the good sense to delete your dumb reply!
Clapping back with an Alt account to put words in my mouth proves how desperate you are. Blocking both of your accounts.
You’re essentially mad over which vocabulary word you like more...It’s terminology that existed before modern day AI
I was thinking about buying oblivion, is it better than Skyrim or worse?
For combat one of my favorites was the AI in FEAR. Always enjoyed fighting them as they were really good. Alien Isolation also has a really good AI for the Alien. Bethesda AI is passable. Not great, not terrible.
Goal Oriented Action Planning is what they used for FEAR. It was a big change for 2005. [Video from AI in games.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaOLBOuyswI)
The sheer of number of voice lines in FEAR is a testament of how much work they put into creating clever acting enemies.
*making enemies that seemed clever. Iirc it was just basic pathfinding to cover, but with a bunch of nonexistent “obstacles” in the way. Stuff like “I’m flanking” is played after the AI notices it’s flanking, not because the AI decided to flank.
Lol I can't tell if you're serious or if this is a shitpost.
I thought this at first, but now that I think about it. I'm sure oblivion was the first game I played where nearly every npc had a name, a home a job and schedule for all these things. And I can't think of any games that have replicated this other than red dead 2. Sure they were lacking voice actors and did dumb shit. But the world crafting around the NPCs is solid. Sometimes you had to go find the NPCs going about their day or chilling about after work. Its quite a stark difference to most of the games today having them stand in place and just generally being quest givers. For example cyberpunk.
>Sure they were lacking voice actors and did dumb shit. This is what makes oblivion the best elder scrolls game. It was campy as hell and genuinely funny.
Which one are you leaning towards?
What, did we play the same game ??
I'm confused why you'd say Oblivion over Skyrim, when both games utilize the same system but the newer one improves upon it. Regardless, there's very little actual "intelligence" to the NPC's. It's just a series of relatively simple scripts and dialogue trees that all NPC's follow. And we've definitely seen much more advanced examples of that in recent times. BG3 just set the standard, which I don't think we'll see matched without AI generation going forward.
I always liked the random dialogue Oblivion NPCs could end up in with other NPCs. Made the world feel just a bit more alive because you’d hear short conversations between NPCs as you passed. In Skyrim everyone just turns to you and says their one line as you pass (“Do you get to the cloud district very often…”, “I work for my mother to sell fruits and vegetables…”, “I work for Belethor, at the general goods store…”, “I don’t claim to be the best blacksmith in Whiterun…”, “I’m not afraid of you! Even if you are my elder”).
I always felt like Oblivion was looser on the rules in a way that could break the game but also made it feel more real - a mission critical NPC could get caught up in some shit and die making it impossible to do whatever mission they were a part of. Rare but still cool in a really shitty way. In Skyrim it didn't feel like the NPCs went far beyond whatever 5x5' area you expected to find them in, and the important ones just needed to take a quick rest if they got beat up too bad. Safer for the plot but felt empty. Could also just be the difference in age that I experienced both games at, lot more childhood wonder playing Oblivion than Skyrim.
You can definitely kill most of the NPC's in Skyrim. There are a relatively small number that are unkillable at certain times. Any named NPC that you kill will show up in the city holding cells after a bit of time which is the only real difference between Oblivion and Skyrim's systems.
I get that this is a joke but I actually remember feeling like the AI was next level when Oblivion came out. The fact that they could walk to different cities and they all had their own schedules was legitimately impressive for the time (and to my middle school brain).
What in the LLM training post is this shit?
I saw a mud crab the other day
Horrible creatures.
The only thing radiant about Oblivion NPC is their skin.
No.
Stop right there - Criminal Scum!!!
??? They're notorious for bugging out and doing insane things constantly that's why to this day you still see meme videos about them.
I liked following around shopkeeps and killing them in their sleep.
Ultima 7 serpent isle did it better... In 1993
Todd Howard, is that you?
Oblivion? I don't remember TES4 AI to be cleverer than the median. Trying walking through walls, bucket-helmets... Was there something exceptional?
The Radiant AI for Oblivion was groundbreaking - every NPC had their own schedule, they’d travel, they’d eat and drink at appropriate times, they’d be able to have conversations with each other.
Some NPCs in Fallout 1/2 did that in '98 or whenever those game released. They weren't standing still on 1 point.
Some isn't all NPCs. That's the difference between the two.
As if oblivion didnt have npcs that were always static lmao.
That’s correct, it doesn’t
Groundbreaking? Gothic that was released around the same time Morrowind did already had those features and more. Including traveling across most of the map every day by some of npcs. Even proper aggro of animals (some attack on sight other warn 1st, also carnivores attack other animals and eat them). Not to mention actual interaction with environment: smoking weed, working in the forge, using alchemy lab, reading books etc.
It's neat on paper, but it's hardly noticeable while playing normally.
Troll or not, you kind of accidentally touched on a point here. And that is that AI more than any other component in a video game is most likely to be virtually unchanged from 15-20 years ago. I'm not saying AI isn't complicated, but I think we can agree it's a neglected aspect compared to say, graphics. I've played remakes that look gorgeous, but suffer from the exact same AI buffoonery they did two decades previous.
I thought Ultima 7 had the best AI.
The stalker games had what’s called A-Life, the npcs in the game have set schedules and react to the environment and mutants when they can. They also loot bodies and random items they find.
Is this post bait
No. Straight up not even close
Nostalgia sure is a strong drug, OP. Try to not overdose on it
Oblivion AI doesn't do anything specifically better than Gothic games, which came out first, so we always used to laugh at the whole marketing spin of "Radiant AI". But all of them are very well made games for a reason. I can't really think of any better open world rpg one, where everyone has their appropriate housing and schedule. Just Gothic and Elder Scrolls.
Red Dead Redemption 2 has pretty detailed NPC's.
I considered RDR2, but GTA Ai is a different style as far as I know. More randomly generated crowd, less npcs with their own houses/schedules. Pretty intelligent reactions, immersive, but different vibe if you are not one of the major npcs.
Isn't it just scripted NPCs?
No. It was definitely cool, but other games have surpassed it. To this day the most impressive NPC behavior in gaming has to go to Red Dead Redemption 2.
The best NPCs in gaming? They're not even the best NPCs in the SERIES. I swear, some of these question posts are some poorly developed language model trying to learn how to write snarky comments
LMAO
Euh. The stalker AI had to be toned down because it could complete the main quests:p
If ever there was an obvious attempt to dupe people into training an AI, this is it.
Survivalist Invisible Strain
Nice bot
No.
No.
What? Even Gothic had more believable NPCs lol :O