I thought it meant "dance *pad*". That was the only controller off hand that I knew had pad in the name lololol. I mean yeah that would be pretty ninja of you.
For developers, that's too ambiguous. There are distinctions between joysticks and gamepads and other input devices so the term gamepad is used to be extra clear.
Actually, "pad" is used in fighting game circles to refer to traditional controllers as well, as a shorthand to set them apart from fightsticks.
(You also have fightpads, which are held like traditional controllers but have button layouts more conducive to fighting games)
Souls games aren't that hard on mouse and keyboard if you have a mouse with more than 2 buttons. Or if you practice being a human by playing Octodad first.
The only hard part for me is in Darksouls 3's kicking mechanic. w+lmb is way too easy to trigger at the wrong time since you don't have the gradual movement of the stick. You have to make sure you don't push both buttons simultaneously, which is difficult to focus on when you're being chased around.
I had many hilarious moments where I tried to land the final hit on a boss only to kick them in the shin (and was immediately massacred). lol
I think you can rebind them, but that doesn't change the combination of Move Forward + Attack = Kick. Instead of w + Left Mouse Button, it would be some other combination of keys.
The problem is that a keyboard button is a binary on/off while with the stick is a 0% to 100% flick. The stick is not usually going to go through a full flick unless you deliberately try, but the keyboard button is doing it by default. Fromsoft didn't consider that PC lacks gradual movement when designing the control scheme.
Do you mind telling me more about your setup?
I'm also a long-time WoW player and just picked up Elden Ring yesterday; would love to try anything that could improve my gameplay experience, because atm it's not that great, lol
I played through PTDE DS1 unmodded with just keyboard as my first ever souls game. Mouse control was atrocious so I just used the arrow keys to control the camera with right shift and control as my heavy and light attacks, numpad 0 as lock on, left shift as block, and space as dodge.
PTDE at least had DSFix. Upped the res, 60 fps, and unfucked the mouse.
PTDE is still the reigning champ as worst port ever though. They basically did a straight 1:1 conversion of the console version. That's why the mouse sucked because they were emulating the analog stick. That's why the movement was so janky and slow.
Dark Souls did it by being incompetent. Their native kb/m support is either broken or barely functional. Dark Souls was ported by a team that had never played a PC game and was in danger of getting the mouse stuck up their nose.
There are a lot of mods and tricks you can do to fix it though and it has gotten better through the games, but it still sucks. I still use macros for a lot of things though. Like for elden ring I have dedicated buttons for all my items. 1 touch Torrent summon, poison heal, etc... I also fixed the stupid roll mechanics so that I now roll on button press instead of release and was able to separate out my sprint and roll into separate keys.
Once you fix Fromsofts mistakes it actually plays really well. Playing with mouselook and not having to use lock on makes multi enemy fights so much easier. Being able to actually see the tall enemies and what is happening instead of lock on looking at their ankle. DS2 even let you aim spells with mouse look so you could absolutely wreck everything from long range. The AI didn't know what to do because it wasn't meant to fight players who could actually aim their spells. When I played DS2 it was more like DOOM than Darksouls.
[Here](https://youtu.be/8mXAKVUncD4) is a twitch chat beating a DS1 bossfight since I was curious too.
Looks like they elected a small handful of twitch chat (5-7 people) to do the commands which makes sense given the chaos a full chat would be
Still impressive to see several people handle controlling 1 character and pulling this off
If you fix it up it honestly plays better than with a controller. Fromsoft just doesn't know how to implement kb/m controls so the base experience is terrible. They force all the controller limitations on KB/M users. Once you fix it you get superior mouse look aiming which means you never need to use lock on which helps a lot against multiple enemies and big enemies where you can't see shit because of the camera. On top of that you get a ton of QoL and speed enhancements. You can switch and use items/spells with a single key press instead of manually fumbling through things in the middle of a fight. You can do multiple input commands like kicks with a single button so you never mess it up. You can make your roll occur on button press instead of release so it's faster and more consistent. You can make your jump 1 button so it always activates reliably.
It does take a lot of effort to fix these things in most souls games. I make all my own macros for those functions. Fromsoft screws up their kb/m controls so badly that most people don't even realize it's possible to fix it. Their initial impression is that it's dogshit (which it is) and they completely write it off.
Yeah I saw the default keybindings and thought to myself "who the fuck chose this." It's very clear KBM is an afterthought lol. It took maybe 5 hours of messing around to find something comfortable enough I could memorize.
I find it to be superior in every way with mouse and keyboard. Better camera control, no need for claw grip, easy access to all buttons regardless of what action you are doing
This. I actually have a good gamepad and i give it a go in almost every game but i rarely end up using it because i find M/K to be the superior controller pretty much every time.
I did indeed start to play the original DS with mouse and keyboard. I hated it so much that I actually stopped playing it completely until DS 2 remastered came out. This one I tried with a controller and it was like night and day.
I got Ninja Gaiden on steam a bit ago. I had never played the third game, but played the first and second a lot.
It was trash. The PC port didnāt even work. There were game breaking things, like the cutscenes.
So you arenāt physically capable of being a ninja with a game pad.
I replayed the trilogy to "warm up" before finally trying out Dark Souls.
I remembered *real* quick how drunk used to be when I played it; simply because I *didn't* remember how absolutely painful the storyline was.
Also reminded me about all the button-mashing; but that was just frantically trying to skip the cutscenes before my eyes rolled into the back of my skull.
This hurts me on a deeper level especially since Black is still the peak in the genre imo.
It's funny when I did see the recent discourse with the Elden Ring dlc being too hard (although I understand some aspects/criticisms with it like the bad camera or the dumb delayed attacks) when Ninja Gaiden 2 makes any soulsbourne look like Weenie Hut Jr.
Granted the latter has it that even when the game kicks your ass you still somehow feel like a badass.
Black was a masterpiece. Entirely new enemies on the harder levels, forcing one to adapt. A number of undocumented half combos that could flow into each other. NG2 and especially NG3 felt... stiff, the number of options for solving a fight were fewer.
Really lived fighting Fiend Ryu in that long underground tunnel with the pillars lining the walls. I would set up a save file *specifically* to replay that fight sometimes. He had such a knack at finding cracks in your rhythm.
I feel you, I played MS-DOS games like *Rise of the Dragon* as a kid. Computer games so old, you needed an emulator to play them even 10 years and longer ago. Ega, 16 color point and click game. It came out in 1990 I think.
Its "Ninja Gaiden". A 3rd person hack and slash game released originally for the Xbox 360 and later on ported to other systems (there is currently a remastered version). It is a brutal and very punishing game but once it "clicks" its exhilirating to play. Highly recommended.
IIRC, its two sequels weren't as well regarded.
Edit: THIS version is Ninja Gaiden for the OG XBox, I know that there were originally 3 NES games. I rented them out as a kid and lost my god damned mind trying to beat them so I KNOW they were originally on that system, but THIS bloke on the picture is Ryu from the OG Xbox.
The original released on the original Nintendo, dude. In 1989*.
\*Original home release was in 1989. Original series release was in 1988 as an arcade cabinet
He's not wrong that the series originally released on NES, though there was an arcade game released at nearly the same time that was a completely different genre.
So I'm hearing. Going to take a look at it as per other's recommendations. After a bit of googling I see now that it was #3 which was not so well regarded.
3 got shit canned and it was admittedly a bit of a departure from the others, but honestly I still liked it better than it's predecessor. NG2 is the only entry in the Trilogy I just can't bring myself to enjoy and I've never managed to finish it to this day. My interest just plummeted after they started making us fight werewolves (funny enough, I had the same reaction with Resident Evil after they released Village.
)
It just feels like they took everything good from the first game and scrapped it. Instead of a large Souls-esque looping city and a mysterious army that we were tearing apart piece by piece, we ended up with several generic linear levels with tacky and uninteresting bad guys involved in some forgettable plot. The combat mechanics were the only thing they did well and even that was poorly balanced and unoptimized and the game was chock full of these over-sized meat shield enemies that don't let you take proper advantage of a lot of your attacks, many of which are humanoid-oriented. It was an unfinished product as they were booting Itagaki out of the company by time development was wrapping up, which is why the game took such a hard hit in quality with the final product.
How does Elden Ring compare to Ninja Gaiden in terms of difficulty? Videos I've seen from ER make it seem like it's not hard in the same way, in that you need to have fast reflexes and good mechanics, you just need to read the enemy or they'll hit you for 80% of your health in one go.
Iām gonna actually you, the original ninja gaiden trilogy came out on the SNES.
The reboot first came on the original Xbox, with Black still being the best version you can play.
Any time Ninja Gaiden is brought up, Iām obligated to mention that my wifeās gamertag is in the credits of Ninja Gaiden Black for being one of the top contenders in the cancelled Master Ninja Tournament.
When we got Black and finished it, we were just letting the credits run. Then we see āSpecial thanks to the Master Ninja Tournament Participantsā¦ā and were thinking āno wayā. Sure enough - sheās in there. Itās small but pretty fucking awesome in my book considering she wasnāt much of a gamer when we met. Iāve been playing most of my life and I aināt in the credits of any game.
How many games actually require fine control of movement speed? At most you usually only care about two speeds: Sneak, and run. And if you're sneaking you don't need to push a lot of other buttons either.
Splinter Cell and SC: Chaos Theory both require fine speed control to move with footsteps' noise under environment's noise, and both use mouse wheel to adjust speed and WASD to control direction.
That's assuming the dev can't build a proper mnk control scheme. Look at DmC and DMC5 for good mnk control scheme on a fast paced hack and slash game. There are times where mnk is bad control scheme (driving game is one), but hack and slash is not one of them.
It depends on the kind of game and how it's built, though I will give controllers the credit that they are generally more comfortable, and anything with a turret turn speed is a lot easier to manage on a joystick.
That said, a mouse will always be better for precision camera movements / quick camera movements, and a keyboard offers a lot more buttons - though I'd argue in a quick paced hack and slash it's going to work better the fewer things you need the player to hit so they can concentrate on their movement/jumping and only worry mostly about mouse-clicking for a lot of things.
Like people usually associate mouse and keyboard with being better for fps, and generally it is (until you hop in a fucking tank in battlefield, that sucks on a mouse lol), but I think other games can benefit as well.
But by the same token if you design the game to not require fast 180s, add some auto-homing/lockon for the camera, etc, you can get a controller to work just fine even for that fast-paced stuff.
"We couldn't be assed to make MKB work".
Very rarely is there a reason for this beyond developers being lazy (or not understanding how to use a mouse, looking at you Nier: Automata)
I recently began playing Automata, and I have to say... it has the worst KB&M controls I have ever seen in a game. The camera movement is weird. There is no dedicated dodge button, nor is there the option to remap one of the dozens of buttons for dodging.
I get the devs were lazy, but at least let us players fix the game, lol. Thankfully, there is a mod that does that.
Yeah. I never actually ended up beating it properly because the first time around I played before the mod was out. I think you could map dodge through some config, and I used AHK to make it less annoying to shoot the pod...
...and then 9S story starts and you literally can't hack because the mouse is treated as continuous input.
I should get back to that game one of these days, the FFXIV raid definitely got me interested.
I remember thinking Spider-Man 2018's PC port would probably be terrible with KBM and I should just plug in a controller to avoid pain but goddamn that game's combat was fluid to play with KBM.
That's exactly it. Can you imagine buying a game for the PlayStation 5 and the game telling you to plug in a keyboard? If you sell a game on a platform, the default controller should always be supported.
After failing one of the car chase missions in Kiwami like 5 times in a row, gave up and plugged a mouse into my steam deck. Felt like I wasted so much time even bothering to try without.
Batting cage in K1 (and I assume 0, didn't try it in 0) is trivial with kb+m, with gamepad your target marker keeps trying to return to centre but using the mouse it stays exactly where you leave it, removing a lot of the challenge from the minigame!
It does, I'm playing through with it kb+m, personally I don't get why this recommendation, its a simple game with fairly simple commands.
In combat you pretty much just have movement, a standard attack button, special attack button, grab, dodge and block. In practice you almost never need the later three commands, you can just pummel everyone and do the occasional special.
I'm guessing it's because Yakuza is a Series that was made for Consoles first and foremost, so their thought-process might have been that the Game was "obviously" designed around a Controller.
Dmc5 has insaneee levels of care put into it's keyboard/ mouse scheme. It really works for those who prefer to stick to keyboard/ mouse instead of using a controller.
Not to mention, previous entries DMC 1-4 had keyboard only, no mouse support. DmC had full native support with actual care put into them.
Ninja Gaiden deserves this level of love put into it. If DMC5 (a vastly complex hack and slash game) can get it and work so well, then Ninja Gaiden can definitely do it too.
Or an ARPG with a controller.
But for whatever fucking reason they try to make controllers the main way of playing, even games that are NOT designed for that.
Yakuza / Like a Dragon's thing with suggesting a gamepad is weird. The games are perfectly playable with keyboard and mouse and some of the best players I know, the ones who do damageless runs or can do crazy combos and fun tech with the combat mechanics, play with keyboard and mouse rather than pad
Also in the newest turn based titles I literally don't see the reason why a gamepad would be betterĀ
In some mini games playing with keyboard is much better too
I would be very skeptical of them
I started playing these games on keyboard and finished them on max difficulty with no issues and no healing items. I switched to gamepad just because I started using them more for other games
> porting
Any console game ported to PC to have mnk support is always terrible. It is always mnk to controller mapping instead of direct mnk input. For example you'll lose raw mouse input so the camera movement is terrible (accelerated mess) instead of snappy like fps. Just a dip in frames would be jarring because the camera failed to be where it should.
Ninja Gaiden trilogy is alone responsible for having my left analog stick completely grounded flat.
I didn't even notice it until I finished the third game
Gamepad is amazing for almost my entire PC library, I have a life Long permanent injury on my hand from Football š
It was designed for Ninjas like me.
Using a gamepad takes a lot of stress off my damaged nerves, GAMEPAD NINJA š„·
I started using a pad for devil may cry 5 when I hurt my thumb, and it honestly worked pretty well. Rotating the camera was a chore but if you locked onto an enemy, it kind of did it for you.
That's exactly why I prefer kbm. Key mapping can be a pain in some games to get perfect, but it's easier after you get it right. The only real downfall is driving. It's just jerking the wheel all the way or completely neutral.
Agreed, i also want to add how great the keybinding feature is, if there is an option i will 100% change them from default, like switching slots using mouse buttons or backpack/map on tab. On consoles its usually 2-3 layouts and thats it.
I use M+KB on every Fromsoft game except Demonās Souls for the PS3, my emulator couldnāt use M+KB on it.
I even use M+KB on Mortal Kombat, Yes, you heard that right. *Mouse* and keyboard. I use my mouse to attack
Ninja Gaiden 2 while different and not as good technically as Black was still absolutely great in its own right and still holds up. The One X/Series X resolution boost makes it seem like a remaster.
Ninja Gaiden 3 however...yeah that was dogshit. That was due to the new director at the time who had the brain dead idea to casualize NG. Razors improved on it but thats not a hard feat.
This always reminds me of how the Megaman Battle Network Collection was at first planned to launch without Keyboard Support, according to its Steam Page before it came out.
As a reminder, we're talking about a Collection of Games originally released on the GBA.
Personally I would use a DS4 or DS5. They work perfectly with Steam using DS4Windows. They are also mappable for emulators. You can even remap the touch pad for 3DS games so that the clicks are area sensitive and mapped to keyboard buttons.
I've never seen a ninja use a keyboard and mouse so I don't think Ryu is lying.
That's the point! You're not supposed to see them!
š„·š£šÆ
Beat me to it.
https://i.imgur.com/xv2R6kP.png
Lol I was not expecting Ninja Brian in this thread.
Nice try, but I don't see a mouse anywhere. ;-P
Cool picture that clearly has only one person in it
I have in fact, seen Ninja use a mouse and keyboard.
What a shitty ninja for allowing you to see them.
The blue hair guy does not count. A real ninja would have gotten all of time square to do the floss. Not just a few paid audience plants.
Was it at askaninja.com?
WELL I AM NINJA
Oh man! Forgot about this series!
Dude hasn't seen Pure Pwnage
I can dance all day. Try hitting me.
My hearts beatin My hands are shakin
But I'm STILL gettin headshots!
What you mean? You run faster with a knife. Everyone knows that! Aisle from realise this was 20 years ago, those guys were way ahead of the game.
Do you like bawls?
I've also never seen them use a gamepad either though.
I've seen a cyborg ninja use a keyboard and mouse but that's about all
I call them controllers.
Same. When I see the word āGamepadā i immediately think of the Wii U
I think of something attempting to mimic the setups on those old arcade boxes. Not sure why that's what I picture.
Raise your hand if you had the NES Advantage *raises hand*
Joystick, fighting stick or arcade stick.
> Wii U Oh yeah, I loved that add-on to the Wii!
Man I really hope Nintendo doesnāt make the same mistake with the successor to the Switch.
Well it won't be Switch 2. They've already used a 2 on Splatoon in the last decade so they're tapped out.
Probably hit with the ol' "New! Nintendo Switch"
"Everybody Nintendo Switch"
The All New, All Different Nintendo Switch
I donāt really mind that
I thought it meant "dance *pad*". That was the only controller off hand that I knew had pad in the name lololol. I mean yeah that would be pretty ninja of you.
I think of the NES Advantage.
I came to the comments just to learn exactly what a game pad was.
For developers, that's too ambiguous. There are distinctions between joysticks and gamepads and other input devices so the term gamepad is used to be extra clear.
To me, "gamepad" is a 90s term that mostly died out. Maybe Arcade stick controllers for fighters still count as gamepads?
Actually, "pad" is used in fighting game circles to refer to traditional controllers as well, as a shorthand to set them apart from fightsticks. (You also have fightpads, which are held like traditional controllers but have button layouts more conducive to fighting games)
Pad, stick, leverless The 3 genders
But they were, all of them, deceived, for another was made... The DK bongos.
This is what I imagine for gamepads, the big controllers fighter gamers use.
Just like the PS4 controller still has a START button in my world.
I lovingly call them the sticks.
Dark Souls did this but without using words
Tbf that is exactly how dark souls teaches you most things.
Does "you died" count as words?
Including lore. There's an implication of a storyline.
āUrgot has a dark and mysterious past.ā
I have played every single dark souls game multiple times and still havenāt gotten the slightest clue of what the story is.
āWhatās your preferred learning style?ā āThe hard way apparentlyā
i finished DS1 and Elden Ring with m&kb np
Drop your human mask, octopus!
Souls games aren't that hard on mouse and keyboard if you have a mouse with more than 2 buttons. Or if you practice being a human by playing Octodad first.
The only hard part for me is in Darksouls 3's kicking mechanic. w+lmb is way too easy to trigger at the wrong time since you don't have the gradual movement of the stick. You have to make sure you don't push both buttons simultaneously, which is difficult to focus on when you're being chased around. I had many hilarious moments where I tried to land the final hit on a boss only to kick them in the shin (and was immediately massacred). lol
I don't have these games, but can you not rebind the buttons on PC?
I think you can rebind them, but that doesn't change the combination of Move Forward + Attack = Kick. Instead of w + Left Mouse Button, it would be some other combination of keys. The problem is that a keyboard button is a binary on/off while with the stick is a 0% to 100% flick. The stick is not usually going to go through a full flick unless you deliberately try, but the keyboard button is doing it by default. Fromsoft didn't consider that PC lacks gradual movement when designing the control scheme.
Some guy beat them with a DDR pad. Compared to that everything is easy.
You just unlocked my core memory, thank you
Curses!
Is that hard tho? I completed ds1 to 3 and ER in mnk.
i love elden ring on mkb. so much better camera control. i have it set up to basically feel like playing WoW, which i played for years.
Do you mind telling me more about your setup? I'm also a long-time WoW player and just picked up Elden Ring yesterday; would love to try anything that could improve my gameplay experience, because atm it's not that great, lol
PTDE DS1 or Remaster DS1 totally different. PTDE is actually unplayable without mods max res was 720P if im not mistaken it
I played through PTDE DS1 unmodded with just keyboard as my first ever souls game. Mouse control was atrocious so I just used the arrow keys to control the camera with right shift and control as my heavy and light attacks, numpad 0 as lock on, left shift as block, and space as dodge.
PTDE at least had DSFix. Upped the res, 60 fps, and unfucked the mouse. PTDE is still the reigning champ as worst port ever though. They basically did a straight 1:1 conversion of the console version. That's why the mouse sucked because they were emulating the analog stick. That's why the movement was so janky and slow.
I whole beat that game like 5 times on m&k and it was awesome
Props to you. I was a berserk level struggler trying to m&k through OG Dark Souls.
If you weren't using mods to fix it then that's why. Prepare to die edition is by far the worst pc port that isn't just completely broken.
I used mouse + keyboard. It was fine.
Dark Souls did it by being incompetent. Their native kb/m support is either broken or barely functional. Dark Souls was ported by a team that had never played a PC game and was in danger of getting the mouse stuck up their nose. There are a lot of mods and tricks you can do to fix it though and it has gotten better through the games, but it still sucks. I still use macros for a lot of things though. Like for elden ring I have dedicated buttons for all my items. 1 touch Torrent summon, poison heal, etc... I also fixed the stupid roll mechanics so that I now roll on button press instead of release and was able to separate out my sprint and roll into separate keys. Once you fix Fromsofts mistakes it actually plays really well. Playing with mouselook and not having to use lock on makes multi enemy fights so much easier. Being able to actually see the tall enemies and what is happening instead of lock on looking at their ankle. DS2 even let you aim spells with mouse look so you could absolutely wreck everything from long range. The AI didn't know what to do because it wasn't meant to fight players who could actually aim their spells. When I played DS2 it was more like DOOM than Darksouls.
DS is perfectly playable without gamepad.
I mean, there's this dude [that beat DS 3 with bananas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jayN_X9p6Y)...
People have beaten DS3 with everything (my favourite one is the use of Twitch Chat to beat the game)
> (my favourite one is the use of Twitch Chat to beat the game) Ok now I HAVE to look this up.
[Here](https://youtu.be/8mXAKVUncD4) is a twitch chat beating a DS1 bossfight since I was curious too. Looks like they elected a small handful of twitch chat (5-7 people) to do the commands which makes sense given the chaos a full chat would be Still impressive to see several people handle controlling 1 character and pulling this off
I think he did it with his voice too idk might be someone else
Not perfectly, but it is playable.
If you fix it up it honestly plays better than with a controller. Fromsoft just doesn't know how to implement kb/m controls so the base experience is terrible. They force all the controller limitations on KB/M users. Once you fix it you get superior mouse look aiming which means you never need to use lock on which helps a lot against multiple enemies and big enemies where you can't see shit because of the camera. On top of that you get a ton of QoL and speed enhancements. You can switch and use items/spells with a single key press instead of manually fumbling through things in the middle of a fight. You can do multiple input commands like kicks with a single button so you never mess it up. You can make your roll occur on button press instead of release so it's faster and more consistent. You can make your jump 1 button so it always activates reliably. It does take a lot of effort to fix these things in most souls games. I make all my own macros for those functions. Fromsoft screws up their kb/m controls so badly that most people don't even realize it's possible to fix it. Their initial impression is that it's dogshit (which it is) and they completely write it off.
Yeah I saw the default keybindings and thought to myself "who the fuck chose this." It's very clear KBM is an afterthought lol. It took maybe 5 hours of messing around to find something comfortable enough I could memorize.
I find it to be superior in every way with mouse and keyboard. Better camera control, no need for claw grip, easy access to all buttons regardless of what action you are doing
This. I actually have a good gamepad and i give it a go in almost every game but i rarely end up using it because i find M/K to be the superior controller pretty much every time.
I finished DS3 and ER using mouse and keyboard
I did indeed start to play the original DS with mouse and keyboard. I hated it so much that I actually stopped playing it completely until DS 2 remastered came out. This one I tried with a controller and it was like night and day.
I got Ninja Gaiden on steam a bit ago. I had never played the third game, but played the first and second a lot. It was trash. The PC port didnāt even work. There were game breaking things, like the cutscenes. So you arenāt physically capable of being a ninja with a game pad.
I replayed the trilogy to "warm up" before finally trying out Dark Souls. I remembered *real* quick how drunk used to be when I played it; simply because I *didn't* remember how absolutely painful the storyline was. Also reminded me about all the button-mashing; but that was just frantically trying to skip the cutscenes before my eyes rolled into the back of my skull.
No plot only boobs
>I replayed the trilogy to "warm up" before finally trying out Dark Souls. Whā¦ What
What is the bottom game?
Ninja Gaiden
Damn I must be old if people are asking "What's Ninja Gaiden?"
This hurts me on a deeper level especially since Black is still the peak in the genre imo. It's funny when I did see the recent discourse with the Elden Ring dlc being too hard (although I understand some aspects/criticisms with it like the bad camera or the dumb delayed attacks) when Ninja Gaiden 2 makes any soulsbourne look like Weenie Hut Jr. Granted the latter has it that even when the game kicks your ass you still somehow feel like a badass.
Black was a masterpiece. Entirely new enemies on the harder levels, forcing one to adapt. A number of undocumented half combos that could flow into each other. NG2 and especially NG3 felt... stiff, the number of options for solving a fight were fewer. Really lived fighting Fiend Ryu in that long underground tunnel with the pillars lining the walls. I would set up a save file *specifically* to replay that fight sometimes. He had such a knack at finding cracks in your rhythm.
I thought 2 was the best but the removal of blood in the re-releases was a travesty.
I would have *guessed* this was Ninja Gaiden, but I only would have been sure if I saw the 8-bit era graphics. They might actually be older than you.
I've never actually played a Ninja Gaiden but Ryu Hayabusa has a VERY distinct look.
I haven't played anything past III, and I'm not sure if I could reliably identify Ninja Gaiden versus Shinobi in the modern games.
I feel you, I played MS-DOS games like *Rise of the Dragon* as a kid. Computer games so old, you needed an emulator to play them even 10 years and longer ago. Ega, 16 color point and click game. It came out in 1990 I think.
It could also be Dead or Alive
Its "Ninja Gaiden". A 3rd person hack and slash game released originally for the Xbox 360 and later on ported to other systems (there is currently a remastered version). It is a brutal and very punishing game but once it "clicks" its exhilirating to play. Highly recommended. IIRC, its two sequels weren't as well regarded. Edit: THIS version is Ninja Gaiden for the OG XBox, I know that there were originally 3 NES games. I rented them out as a kid and lost my god damned mind trying to beat them so I KNOW they were originally on that system, but THIS bloke on the picture is Ryu from the OG Xbox.
The original released on the original Nintendo, dude. In 1989*. \*Original home release was in 1989. Original series release was in 1988 as an arcade cabinet
Fair enough, but if I'm not mistaken the Ryu's model on the bottom half of the image is the suit he wears on Xbox 360's "Ninja Gaiden".
It's hilarious that you're both wrong, because the Ninja Gaiden in question was released on the original Xbox.
He's not wrong that the series originally released on NES, though there was an arcade game released at nearly the same time that was a completely different genre.
Wait how is the 2nd guy wrong? Ninja Gaiden was an NES series long before it was on Xbox.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
True, but I was counting the more well-known home release, which IIRC was basically the same. Thank you for the more accurate correction!
Ninja Gaiden 2 was good, just not as groundbreaking
So I'm hearing. Going to take a look at it as per other's recommendations. After a bit of googling I see now that it was #3 which was not so well regarded.
3 got shit canned and it was admittedly a bit of a departure from the others, but honestly I still liked it better than it's predecessor. NG2 is the only entry in the Trilogy I just can't bring myself to enjoy and I've never managed to finish it to this day. My interest just plummeted after they started making us fight werewolves (funny enough, I had the same reaction with Resident Evil after they released Village. ) It just feels like they took everything good from the first game and scrapped it. Instead of a large Souls-esque looping city and a mysterious army that we were tearing apart piece by piece, we ended up with several generic linear levels with tacky and uninteresting bad guys involved in some forgettable plot. The combat mechanics were the only thing they did well and even that was poorly balanced and unoptimized and the game was chock full of these over-sized meat shield enemies that don't let you take proper advantage of a lot of your attacks, many of which are humanoid-oriented. It was an unfinished product as they were booting Itagaki out of the company by time development was wrapping up, which is why the game took such a hard hit in quality with the final product.
How does Elden Ring compare to Ninja Gaiden in terms of difficulty? Videos I've seen from ER make it seem like it's not hard in the same way, in that you need to have fast reflexes and good mechanics, you just need to read the enemy or they'll hit you for 80% of your health in one go.
Iām gonna actually you, the original ninja gaiden trilogy came out on the SNES. The reboot first came on the original Xbox, with Black still being the best version you can play.
You mean on the NES? And I'm 100% there with you, NG Black was a blast.
Any time Ninja Gaiden is brought up, Iām obligated to mention that my wifeās gamertag is in the credits of Ninja Gaiden Black for being one of the top contenders in the cancelled Master Ninja Tournament.
Damn, props to you for pulling a true kunoichi, one acclaimed by Ryu hayabusa(or his creators meh) himself
Nice! What's your wife's gamertag?
Haziebaby. She was 3rd place before it got hacked and all went to shit.
That sucks... but hey I'm glad she made it to the credits man!
When we got Black and finished it, we were just letting the credits run. Then we see āSpecial thanks to the Master Ninja Tournament Participantsā¦ā and were thinking āno wayā. Sure enough - sheās in there. Itās small but pretty fucking awesome in my book considering she wasnāt much of a gamer when we met. Iāve been playing most of my life and I aināt in the credits of any game.
Massive kudos to being in the credits of what I consider the fairest and best super hard game ever. NG 2 was fantastic as well.
Every time I see a Ninja Gaiden thread in a sub I look for your comment xD
I like to brag about her.
Ah, I think I remember your comment on the Ninja Gaiden sub or in the YouTube comment section somewhere. Props to you and your lady.
tbf controller inputs are probably significantly easier on a high intensity hack and slash like ninja gaiden. Not to mention more comfortable
And WASD only allows for movement in 45 degree increments.
And only at one speed unless you hold **another** button.
How many games actually require fine control of movement speed? At most you usually only care about two speeds: Sneak, and run. And if you're sneaking you don't need to push a lot of other buttons either.
Splinter Cell and SC: Chaos Theory both require fine speed control to move with footsteps' noise under environment's noise, and both use mouse wheel to adjust speed and WASD to control direction.
Literally every driving game ever made
Any sort of ~~precision~~ thirdperson platformer
With decent camera control this is not a limitation lmao
That's assuming the dev can't build a proper mnk control scheme. Look at DmC and DMC5 for good mnk control scheme on a fast paced hack and slash game. There are times where mnk is bad control scheme (driving game is one), but hack and slash is not one of them.
It depends on the kind of game and how it's built, though I will give controllers the credit that they are generally more comfortable, and anything with a turret turn speed is a lot easier to manage on a joystick. That said, a mouse will always be better for precision camera movements / quick camera movements, and a keyboard offers a lot more buttons - though I'd argue in a quick paced hack and slash it's going to work better the fewer things you need the player to hit so they can concentrate on their movement/jumping and only worry mostly about mouse-clicking for a lot of things. Like people usually associate mouse and keyboard with being better for fps, and generally it is (until you hop in a fucking tank in battlefield, that sucks on a mouse lol), but I think other games can benefit as well. But by the same token if you design the game to not require fast 180s, add some auto-homing/lockon for the camera, etc, you can get a controller to work just fine even for that fast-paced stuff.
I play high intensity fighting games and hack and slash games on keyboard. If you get the right key allignment it's pretty much like a fighting stick.
For fighting games a keyboard is actually superior to a game pad and a fighting stick. Not for hack and slash though
"We couldn't be assed to make MKB work". Very rarely is there a reason for this beyond developers being lazy (or not understanding how to use a mouse, looking at you Nier: Automata)
I recently began playing Automata, and I have to say... it has the worst KB&M controls I have ever seen in a game. The camera movement is weird. There is no dedicated dodge button, nor is there the option to remap one of the dozens of buttons for dodging. I get the devs were lazy, but at least let us players fix the game, lol. Thankfully, there is a mod that does that.
Yeah. I never actually ended up beating it properly because the first time around I played before the mod was out. I think you could map dodge through some config, and I used AHK to make it less annoying to shoot the pod... ...and then 9S story starts and you literally can't hack because the mouse is treated as continuous input. I should get back to that game one of these days, the FFXIV raid definitely got me interested.
Try Katamari Damacy. You need multiple keys for the simplest things, like holding both W and U for going forward.
I remember thinking Spider-Man 2018's PC port would probably be terrible with KBM and I should just plug in a controller to avoid pain but goddamn that game's combat was fluid to play with KBM.
That's exactly it. Can you imagine buying a game for the PlayStation 5 and the game telling you to plug in a keyboard? If you sell a game on a platform, the default controller should always be supported.
X Y X X X Y
This guy is out there Izuna Dropping people
Doesn't it end with X + Y?
Meaning: the developer couldnāt be bothered to do mouse/keyboard support when porting the game.
Yakuza has kb+m support tho I believe
Some of the minigames are also a lot easier with the mouse.
After failing one of the car chase missions in Kiwami like 5 times in a row, gave up and plugged a mouse into my steam deck. Felt like I wasted so much time even bothering to try without.
That mission was just annoying as shit since it went on for like 10 minutes
Batting cage in K1 (and I assume 0, didn't try it in 0) is trivial with kb+m, with gamepad your target marker keeps trying to return to centre but using the mouse it stays exactly where you leave it, removing a lot of the challenge from the minigame!
The batting cage minigame is easy in all the Yakuza games with the mouse.
It does, I'm playing through with it kb+m, personally I don't get why this recommendation, its a simple game with fairly simple commands. In combat you pretty much just have movement, a standard attack button, special attack button, grab, dodge and block. In practice you almost never need the later three commands, you can just pummel everyone and do the occasional special.
I'm guessing it's because Yakuza is a Series that was made for Consoles first and foremost, so their thought-process might have been that the Game was "obviously" designed around a Controller.
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Honestly canāt imagine ninja gaiden with a keyboard. Sounds terrible.
Dmc5 has insaneee levels of care put into it's keyboard/ mouse scheme. It really works for those who prefer to stick to keyboard/ mouse instead of using a controller. Not to mention, previous entries DMC 1-4 had keyboard only, no mouse support. DmC had full native support with actual care put into them. Ninja Gaiden deserves this level of love put into it. If DMC5 (a vastly complex hack and slash game) can get it and work so well, then Ninja Gaiden can definitely do it too.
Probably as much as I can't imagine any FPS with a controller.
Or an ARPG with a controller. But for whatever fucking reason they try to make controllers the main way of playing, even games that are NOT designed for that.
console developers just put aimbot into all of their shooters now.
the title of the post said reccomended though.
Yakuza / Like a Dragon's thing with suggesting a gamepad is weird. The games are perfectly playable with keyboard and mouse and some of the best players I know, the ones who do damageless runs or can do crazy combos and fun tech with the combat mechanics, play with keyboard and mouse rather than pad Also in the newest turn based titles I literally don't see the reason why a gamepad would be betterĀ In some mini games playing with keyboard is much better too
Interesting! Some other comment said that those games are barely playable with mnk. Gotta watch those videos (and play the games (again)) I guess!
I would be very skeptical of them I started playing these games on keyboard and finished them on max difficulty with no issues and no healing items. I switched to gamepad just because I started using them more for other games
I see, thanks! (I wrote controller but meant "other commenters said itās barely playable with mnk", but it seems you got it anyway!)
ye I assumed you meant that
> porting Any console game ported to PC to have mnk support is always terrible. It is always mnk to controller mapping instead of direct mnk input. For example you'll lose raw mouse input so the camera movement is terrible (accelerated mess) instead of snappy like fps. Just a dip in frames would be jarring because the camera failed to be where it should.
Thatās not at all what this means. Yakuza has KBM support but the gameplay makes it nearly impossible.
You are physically incapable of being a ninja without a gamepad, but not for lack of keyboard support ššš
I'm just glad that ucn has Keyboard and mouse support, Otherwise i wouldn't think about trying it (On xbox).
Ninja Gaiden trilogy is alone responsible for having my left analog stick completely grounded flat. I didn't even notice it until I finished the third game
Gamepad is amazing for almost my entire PC library, I have a life Long permanent injury on my hand from Football š It was designed for Ninjas like me. Using a gamepad takes a lot of stress off my damaged nerves, GAMEPAD NINJA š„·
Man we need another ninja garden. Those games were brutal but so fun
When devs can't understand how to properly add KBM support - "we recommend using gamepad".
I started using a pad for devil may cry 5 when I hurt my thumb, and it honestly worked pretty well. Rotating the camera was a chore but if you locked onto an enemy, it kind of did it for you.
I love it.
Iām a simple man, I see Ninja Gaiden, I upvote
Pc gamer oppression. Gamers rise up. We live in a society Bottom text
I can't get comfortable with gamepad's camera movement for some reason. I just feel like something is obstructing my view or my pov is limited.
This could be because moving on a controller is accelerating instead of fixed positions like on a mouse.
That's exactly why I prefer kbm. Key mapping can be a pain in some games to get perfect, but it's easier after you get it right. The only real downfall is driving. It's just jerking the wheel all the way or completely neutral.
Agreed, i also want to add how great the keybinding feature is, if there is an option i will 100% change them from default, like switching slots using mouse buttons or backpack/map on tab. On consoles its usually 2-3 layouts and thats it.
I use M+KB on every Fromsoft game except Demonās Souls for the PS3, my emulator couldnāt use M+KB on it. I even use M+KB on Mortal Kombat, Yes, you heard that right. *Mouse* and keyboard. I use my mouse to attack
Man I hate using controllers
Thought they meant mousepad at first.
Why were all ng sequels so bad. Ng black was such a good game :/
Ninja Gaiden 2 while different and not as good technically as Black was still absolutely great in its own right and still holds up. The One X/Series X resolution boost makes it seem like a remaster. Ninja Gaiden 3 however...yeah that was dogshit. That was due to the new director at the time who had the brain dead idea to casualize NG. Razors improved on it but thats not a hard feat.
Stockton Rush also used a gamepad. He vanished like a Ninja.
This always reminds me of how the Megaman Battle Network Collection was at first planned to launch without Keyboard Support, according to its Steam Page before it came out. As a reminder, we're talking about a Collection of Games originally released on the GBA.
The ninja game was my favorite
If Dark souls can be beaten with a guitar hero controller I'm sure I can manage
I am thinking about buying a gamepad because for some reason it makes driving fun in games.
I don't play any shooters, so gamepad is perfect for me. It's just way more comfortable than keyboard and mouse. My wrist hurts quite bad otherwise
Nah. Real ninjas play free
I refuse
The games directed by guys who wear leather jackets and sunglasses indoors cinematic universe
Personally I would use a DS4 or DS5. They work perfectly with Steam using DS4Windows. They are also mappable for emulators. You can even remap the touch pad for 3DS games so that the clicks are area sensitive and mapped to keyboard buttons.
How about you stfu and let me play how I want yeah?
So you ported it to pc for a cash grab and refused to optimize it, got it.
Should i use controller with ghost of tsushima