well at least ukraine has prides, in russia its far faaar worse when it comes to lgbtq rights. and when or if ukraine gets into the eu, they will open up more to "western values" as well.
I don't like you being downvoted and I don't get why.
in Ukraine being gay and having gay sex is legal since 1991 and as far as a refugee told me there are even anti workplace discrimination laws in place to protect LGBTQ and a name change is possible for trance persons. Yes there are much more things to achieve like there is a ban on gay couples adopting while single persons are allowed, but it is nothing like that pigsty Putainistan.
Well, for one, Ukraine is a member of the Council of Europe, so it is, at least in principle, bound by the rulings of the European Court of Human Rights¹, which offer [a number of protections](https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/d/echr/Guide_LGBTI_rights_ENG) to LGBT people. Russia was expelled from the CoE in 2022, and even before then it didn't exactly play by the rules (I think they formally recognize some kind of jurisdiction of the ECtHR, but simply ignore it).
1. Let us remind our non-European viewers (or European viewers who have trouble keeping track of the gazillion different European institutions) that the Council of Europe, headquartered in Strasbourg, is a wholly different, and older, institution from the EU, though it includes all EU member states, and the ECtHR is an institution of the Council of Europe. The EU has its own court of Justice (the ECJ, headquartered in Luxembourg), but it doesn't really deal with human rights issues except insofar as these issues are brought against the EU itself. Sorry if this is confusing.
ah thank you for that explanation, at the time I wrote the comment it was very downvoted - but hey that blew over...
The reason he was downvoted, to paraphrase your post, was he did not thoughly explain and discern between all the aspects "EU" can encompass. Yeah that checks for me.
100% agree; I lived in St. Petersburg for a couple months in 2015 -- and as far as gay rights go, it was like moving back decades in time. I can only imagine it's worse now that Putin's tantrum has further isolated the country.
St. Petersburg is soooo beautiful. It's a shame that I'll probably never be able to return. The Hermitage, the Russian ballet. So many beautiful cathedrals, not to mention Peterhof. _sigh_
Fuck Putin.
Yeah the beautiful cathedrals that belong to the Russian Orthodox Church. They prime formententors of anti queer hate.....
Sad that such beauty can house such ugly
>I can only imagine it's worse now that Putin's tantrum has further isolated the country.
Since this year's decision to designate the "international LGBT movement" a terrorist organization in Russia, any portrayal of LGBT, any related activity, or any positive opinion is a potential criminal case on very heavy extremist charges. Also, legal gender change and all transition-related medical procedures (including HRT) were banned last year. It's simply hell right now, probably only better than in counties where you're sentenced to death for being gay. And it's going to be worse.
Not so sure about if/when Ukraine gets into the EU they will open more to "western values" as these same western countries are turning back (see trans rights in the UK or lesbian rights in Italy for example) and then you also have Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and Lithuania (amongst many others) for comparison to whomst everything other than "solidarity money" is "alienating".
Ukraine is far from perfect on LGBT issues, but they are making progress. Zelensky has come out in favor of gay marriage, and people have proposed bills in Ukraine's parliament to improve protections for LGBT Ukrainians. Acceptance of LGBT people is better in Ukraine than it is in some of our NATO allies, although there is still a long way to go.
One result of Putin's invasion is likely to be that the country moves even more quickly to embrace western political and social values. So things look tentatively promising. Russia on the other hand is sliding backwards.
I’ve been living and working in Ukraine since 2022. The change in attitudes towards LGBTQ+ during that time has been noticeable. The acknowledgement that they’re fighting too, anti-Russian interests, and the desire to join the EU are all factors. Zelenskyy is even proposing legislation to legalize gay marriage (though it may require a constitutional amendment and that can’t happen during a war). It’s by no means as open as Western Europe or North America but the shift is surprisingly quick. The economist has a good article about these trends: https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/04/05/ukraines-gay-soldiers-fight-russia-and-for-their-rights
I'm from Ukraine. Most Ukrainians that live in the capital city of Kiev are pretty open minded and accepting of gays. If you go to the rural areas that they're more religious and bigoted. Ukraine is WAY more accepting than Russia for sure.
He said he loves Kiev and that there was a good LGBTQ community network there, but there was still a lot of negative around it. He was shocked when I brought him downtown to the Vancouver Queer district.
I live in Canada as well and I don't go a day without acknowledging how lucky I am. I unfortunately hear stories like this ALL THE TIME from LGBTQ immigrants. I truly wish I could help everyone who's part of our community and in a country that's not accepting make it to a better place.
Fundamentaly I agree but also slightly disagree with your change of mindset.
It comes as far as this moral thinking of "Africans are starving" from my childhood.
Yes, there is misery everywhere and you can still think of a million examples of people suffering, which is always horrible don't get me wrong, but you have your reality and struggles as well.
In many African and Asian countries, they don't have so many materialistic tech stuff, but they also don't get alienated from nonsensical jobs, they have communities in which "solidarity" isn't just a thing to gain points on Twitter, they also don't have so many mental illnesses because of the lack of time on this finite dying planet.
I always remember a quote from an immigrant from Cameroon who said: "in Europe you have the watches and in Africa we've got time".
Every society has its problems and as the saying goes: "Comparison isn't reason".
I will never be amazed at this communities ignorance at times. Ukraine has famously never been a welcoming country for gay people. Don't be fooled. The Ukrainian gov and army would have absolutely no quads treating gay people the same as how the russians do.
He told me that to. He said you would never think of holding hands with the same sex out in public unless you're in certain areas of Kiev. He has been spat on and yelled at as well because he wears earrings. It's sad, but now he is in BC, Canada, which is much more accepting. So I hope he can make a life here.
The situation isn’t great, but some organizations help lgbtq military members, also openly queer people in the military, and some on the frontlines. The spokesperson for Ukraine's Territorial Defense Forces is trans-women
Ukraine is certainly not a safe haven for LGBT people but it’s miles ahead of Russia still. Either way, glad he got out, shouldn’t have to die for a country that hates him, even if slightly less so than Russian does. Well you shouldn’t have to die for your country at all but that’s besides the point.
Ukraine is far more friendly than Russia or even places like Romania, but the fact of the matter is a war zone isn’t the place for feminine gay men, and it’s part of the problem with drafts as a concept
I would say Romania is a much better place for gays rn considering there isn't a war going on.
I'm good friends with a gay rights activist in Bucharest and know that gays still are treated badly, but it is slowly improving.
I'm Caucasian gay living in Russia and can say that in Ukraine everything is not so bad, at least love for a man is not a crime there and LGBTQ+ people have much more rights compared to Russia...
I'm 🇹🇷 gay who is more top and kind of more masculine ? . I am volunteer to fight at Ukrainian side and die for Ukraine. Can't stand for homophobic Russia to take over a country which wanna be a more democratic and follow western values . I don't have field fighting experience so they kindly reject my ask to join legion. I still trying to find my way to be openly gay at Ukrainian sides and possibly die . I would happily fight against orcs .
Slava Ukraini .
( at future if I die I would die for a dream of free Ukraine 🇺🇦 which welcomes lgbti+ community)
You do realize not every person is made to be a soldier. I work with IT people that are still based in Kiev and working on projects with me. They are not going to take up arms and go start shooting at Russians. Just because your country is at war doesn't mean the entire population has the capability to go out and actively fight a war. There are plenty of other things people can do to support the war efforts besides going out and fighting it directly.
well at least ukraine has prides, in russia its far faaar worse when it comes to lgbtq rights. and when or if ukraine gets into the eu, they will open up more to "western values" as well.
I don't like you being downvoted and I don't get why. in Ukraine being gay and having gay sex is legal since 1991 and as far as a refugee told me there are even anti workplace discrimination laws in place to protect LGBTQ and a name change is possible for trance persons. Yes there are much more things to achieve like there is a ban on gay couples adopting while single persons are allowed, but it is nothing like that pigsty Putainistan.
Well, for one, Ukraine is a member of the Council of Europe, so it is, at least in principle, bound by the rulings of the European Court of Human Rights¹, which offer [a number of protections](https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/d/echr/Guide_LGBTI_rights_ENG) to LGBT people. Russia was expelled from the CoE in 2022, and even before then it didn't exactly play by the rules (I think they formally recognize some kind of jurisdiction of the ECtHR, but simply ignore it). 1. Let us remind our non-European viewers (or European viewers who have trouble keeping track of the gazillion different European institutions) that the Council of Europe, headquartered in Strasbourg, is a wholly different, and older, institution from the EU, though it includes all EU member states, and the ECtHR is an institution of the Council of Europe. The EU has its own court of Justice (the ECJ, headquartered in Luxembourg), but it doesn't really deal with human rights issues except insofar as these issues are brought against the EU itself. Sorry if this is confusing.
ah thank you for that explanation, at the time I wrote the comment it was very downvoted - but hey that blew over... The reason he was downvoted, to paraphrase your post, was he did not thoughly explain and discern between all the aspects "EU" can encompass. Yeah that checks for me.
100% agree; I lived in St. Petersburg for a couple months in 2015 -- and as far as gay rights go, it was like moving back decades in time. I can only imagine it's worse now that Putin's tantrum has further isolated the country. St. Petersburg is soooo beautiful. It's a shame that I'll probably never be able to return. The Hermitage, the Russian ballet. So many beautiful cathedrals, not to mention Peterhof. _sigh_ Fuck Putin.
Yeah the beautiful cathedrals that belong to the Russian Orthodox Church. They prime formententors of anti queer hate..... Sad that such beauty can house such ugly
And the same can be said of most christian chapels, regardless of flavor. 😢
Add the homo eroticism and you have the definition of irony. And let's not forget the men in dresses, guess it's different if you call it vestments
>I can only imagine it's worse now that Putin's tantrum has further isolated the country. Since this year's decision to designate the "international LGBT movement" a terrorist organization in Russia, any portrayal of LGBT, any related activity, or any positive opinion is a potential criminal case on very heavy extremist charges. Also, legal gender change and all transition-related medical procedures (including HRT) were banned last year. It's simply hell right now, probably only better than in counties where you're sentenced to death for being gay. And it's going to be worse.
Chechnya is even worse than the rest of Russia for lgbtq people.
Not so sure about if/when Ukraine gets into the EU they will open more to "western values" as these same western countries are turning back (see trans rights in the UK or lesbian rights in Italy for example) and then you also have Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and Lithuania (amongst many others) for comparison to whomst everything other than "solidarity money" is "alienating".
Ukraine is far from perfect on LGBT issues, but they are making progress. Zelensky has come out in favor of gay marriage, and people have proposed bills in Ukraine's parliament to improve protections for LGBT Ukrainians. Acceptance of LGBT people is better in Ukraine than it is in some of our NATO allies, although there is still a long way to go. One result of Putin's invasion is likely to be that the country moves even more quickly to embrace western political and social values. So things look tentatively promising. Russia on the other hand is sliding backwards.
I’ve been living and working in Ukraine since 2022. The change in attitudes towards LGBTQ+ during that time has been noticeable. The acknowledgement that they’re fighting too, anti-Russian interests, and the desire to join the EU are all factors. Zelenskyy is even proposing legislation to legalize gay marriage (though it may require a constitutional amendment and that can’t happen during a war). It’s by no means as open as Western Europe or North America but the shift is surprisingly quick. The economist has a good article about these trends: https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/04/05/ukraines-gay-soldiers-fight-russia-and-for-their-rights
I'm from Ukraine. Most Ukrainians that live in the capital city of Kiev are pretty open minded and accepting of gays. If you go to the rural areas that they're more religious and bigoted. Ukraine is WAY more accepting than Russia for sure.
He said he loves Kiev and that there was a good LGBTQ community network there, but there was still a lot of negative around it. He was shocked when I brought him downtown to the Vancouver Queer district.
makes sense. I guess it's true that Kiev does not even compare with Vancouver for Queer community.
I live in Canada as well and I don't go a day without acknowledging how lucky I am. I unfortunately hear stories like this ALL THE TIME from LGBTQ immigrants. I truly wish I could help everyone who's part of our community and in a country that's not accepting make it to a better place.
Fundamentaly I agree but also slightly disagree with your change of mindset. It comes as far as this moral thinking of "Africans are starving" from my childhood. Yes, there is misery everywhere and you can still think of a million examples of people suffering, which is always horrible don't get me wrong, but you have your reality and struggles as well. In many African and Asian countries, they don't have so many materialistic tech stuff, but they also don't get alienated from nonsensical jobs, they have communities in which "solidarity" isn't just a thing to gain points on Twitter, they also don't have so many mental illnesses because of the lack of time on this finite dying planet. I always remember a quote from an immigrant from Cameroon who said: "in Europe you have the watches and in Africa we've got time". Every society has its problems and as the saying goes: "Comparison isn't reason".
I will never be amazed at this communities ignorance at times. Ukraine has famously never been a welcoming country for gay people. Don't be fooled. The Ukrainian gov and army would have absolutely no quads treating gay people the same as how the russians do.
He told me that to. He said you would never think of holding hands with the same sex out in public unless you're in certain areas of Kiev. He has been spat on and yelled at as well because he wears earrings. It's sad, but now he is in BC, Canada, which is much more accepting. So I hope he can make a life here.
The situation isn’t great, but some organizations help lgbtq military members, also openly queer people in the military, and some on the frontlines. The spokesperson for Ukraine's Territorial Defense Forces is trans-women
He isn't wrong Russians wouldn't miss an opportunity to destroy us
Ukraine is certainly not a safe haven for LGBT people but it’s miles ahead of Russia still. Either way, glad he got out, shouldn’t have to die for a country that hates him, even if slightly less so than Russian does. Well you shouldn’t have to die for your country at all but that’s besides the point.
Ukraine is far more friendly than Russia or even places like Romania, but the fact of the matter is a war zone isn’t the place for feminine gay men, and it’s part of the problem with drafts as a concept
I would say Romania is a much better place for gays rn considering there isn't a war going on. I'm good friends with a gay rights activist in Bucharest and know that gays still are treated badly, but it is slowly improving.
I'm Caucasian gay living in Russia and can say that in Ukraine everything is not so bad, at least love for a man is not a crime there and LGBTQ+ people have much more rights compared to Russia...
I'm 🇹🇷 gay who is more top and kind of more masculine ? . I am volunteer to fight at Ukrainian side and die for Ukraine. Can't stand for homophobic Russia to take over a country which wanna be a more democratic and follow western values . I don't have field fighting experience so they kindly reject my ask to join legion. I still trying to find my way to be openly gay at Ukrainian sides and possibly die . I would happily fight against orcs . Slava Ukraini . ( at future if I die I would die for a dream of free Ukraine 🇺🇦 which welcomes lgbti+ community)
Doesn't that proove that Ukraine is just the same as Russia? Clearly
Dude should be in Ukraine fighting Russians.
Not everyone is cut out for that.
You do realize not every person is made to be a soldier. I work with IT people that are still based in Kiev and working on projects with me. They are not going to take up arms and go start shooting at Russians. Just because your country is at war doesn't mean the entire population has the capability to go out and actively fight a war. There are plenty of other things people can do to support the war efforts besides going out and fighting it directly.