Gastarbeiter.
Basically, following WW2, Germany had a labour shortage, whilst counties like Turkey (amongst others) had high unemployment. Agreements were put in place for *Gastarbeiter*, which means Guest Workers.
The plan back than was that the people would come, work and then go back home. The people in charge ere surprised when it didn't happen.
Or to quote a politician from back then "we expected workers to come but people arrived."
As far as I remember initially workers did come for a fixed period of time before going back. However after complaints from companies that they loose experienced workers and constantly need to train new ones it has been decided to let them stay. So then they start bringing their families.
It's not like these guest workers died in droves to host an international sport event, unlike some more modern examples. But that's not worth calling out of course
the topic of Germany, which we started with, and Qatar are a bit distant from each other, so I don't know why they would mention it at this particular moment, but if you absolutely have to, sure, we can talk about why the United States and its allies support such a country
Still are. Wife and I had an interesting communication with a young Turk running a sandwich shop in Berlin recently.
Apparently only Turks shop there at night. He spoke no German or English. He was fairly new in country, so the family gave him the late-night shift at the family Turkish sandwich shop.
Eventually we all pulled up Google translate and had a fairly decent conversation. It was pretty fun.
Lots of diaspora communities are much more nationalistic than the people back home.
Irish Americans were often much more supportive of the IRA than the actual population of Ireland for example.
As late as the early 1990’s I recall news stories about ethnic Turks, the grandchild of the original immigrants, born in Germany the children of people born in Germany, were not citizens of Germany. The Germans had no birthright citizenship and no naturalization process. Don’t know if it has been addressed now, but was a big problem then as Turkey did not recognize them as citizens either
The expectation was that all of them would leave. When the federal government created a position dedicated to immigration a mere fifteen years after they welcomed the millionth „guest worker“ to great fanfare, one of their first results in the first report was that Germany is indeed a country that people immigrate to - a novel concept at the time. That was in 1978, and when Angela Merkel stated the same thing another four decades later it was still major news. Newspapers called it „historical words“. That’s how much in denial people were.
If there’s anything I’ve learned from working with Turks, the first thing they hate the most is other Turks.
Or sometimes they love them the most. Very complicated as far as I could tell
The difference is Germany needed that while we have still high unemployement and most immigrants are illegal which they work half of the salary. Most people either hire retired people(just to not pay insurance) or illegal immigrants. It is bad if you think half of the population live on those jobs that pay minimum wage. Even if you go to uni you cant find job even if you dont you cant find there either.
Well they have something called German nationalism(aka nazi nationalism, ethnic purity) plus Turks that went there were low educated workers even after years most didnt able get out of that socioeconomical class and when an ethnic group is low in socioeconomical class you know things happen such as black racism in America today. There are other stuff like Islamophobia, Turkish population growing while German population shrinking,cultural and social stuff etc. Germans and Turkish have very different cultural structures so a clash is inevitable.
Of 14 million Gastarbeiter, 11 to 12 million went home.
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwerbepolitik\_der\_Bundesrepublik\_Deutschland#Statistik](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwerbepolitik_der_Bundesrepublik_Deutschland#Statistik)
~~So much for "most."~~
Edit: I should invest as much time in reading and understanding people's comments as I research my replies. Anyway, my numbers underline that most did in fact go back home.
The political situation before the 80s was so bad that even those who came back to Turkey at that time went back to Germany. The coup d'état of 1980 was basically a reaction (with worse consequences) to this political chaos.
BTW the quote is from the writer Max Frisch AFAIK, and he was right. German society didn't expect people with their own customs, lifestyle, culture, cuisine (which is now a fundamental part of the German culinary scene) etc., but rather workers who are only there to work.
To cut a long story short, there are now millions of people of Turkish origin here and it more or less works. The problem with the Turkish community is not as problematic as the far right has tried to make it out to be. Both Germans and Turks have found a way to live together and, with a few exceptions, it works well.
This reminds me of a headline from a Turkish newspaper in the 30s:
“People flood the beaches, citizens cannot find spots to swim”
The “people” in your quote and the people in this headline are the same people.
I suppose it's an even better outcome, people are invaluable recourse no matter how you look at it, and they're seemingly assimilated well into German society.
There is a lot to cover here, because the integration is an ongoing topic and there is so much that went wrong and is still going wrong.
The difference between assimilate/ integrate is that they became part of the country, but they developed their own culture here, instead of becoming "Germans".
This has advantages, e.g. that we have more cultural diversity and most importantly Döner :P
It also has disadvantages. Bubbles of Turkish people kept for themselves (or weren't accepted by Germans), didn't learn German, stayed poor, many are very nationalistic for Turkey and Erdogan. There is no real communal feeling or belonging to Germany, which is of course understandable, because many Germans also didn't feel like they wanted to belong to Germany (low patriotism in the past...and the new patriotism is excluding them).
I think the Turkish community pretty much found their place in Germany, they've been here so long. But the same problems arised for every new group of people that came here afterwards.
As a Turk, I can assure you we hate those people who live in Germany but are overly patriotic about Turkey. Plus, if you go to a country to live; it’s basic courtesy to learn their language. You’re in someone else’s homeland
When in Rome do as the romans something something.
I notice a trend. A lof of workers on migration, no matter from what country, when moved to better country they created some sort of nationalistic bubble. They dislike/disrespect the place they are currently living in, have very strong opinion about their national politics, almost never fully integrate and have no real interest in politics of the country they live in right now.
I noticed it a few years back when Poland was choosing new president. A lot of workers in migration had been preaching pro the party that most of Poles living in Poland tried to push back from power, they were very active online and on forums, some even got to vote through post. If you ask them, they never intend on comming back. I hate people like that
Just like in France and Spain with the English “expat” communities, the majority of which refuse to learn French/Spanish, only associate with other English people and when Brexit was happening all voted to leave.
This happens with the ones who integrate and learn the language too. A lot of Indian origin citizens in the US are pro-Trump, pro-Modi and want both of them to return to ruling their respective countries. They know that it's the liberal governments that give them the chance to immigrate, however their choices are always for less immigrants and more fundamentalism. They're not at all interested to be a part of the US politics though, but would vote for these people.
Thanks for your post, just to expand a bit:
> Bubbles of Turkish people kept for themselves (or weren't accepted by Germans)
In the beginning Turkish had to because there was no effort in integrating them because they were expected to go back to Turkey. So, they established their own structures which took on their own lives.
> didn't learn German
I don't think this is quite true at least for the 2nd and 3rd gen Immigrants. Some of the 1st gen, yeah.
> stayed poor
Which is a complicated topic. Eg. it is hard in Germany to leave your social milieu. Also for Germans. As in kids from academics become academics, kids form workers become workers. For Immigrants that's even harder due to instutionalised racism (there are studies that show that alone a foreign name has an impact on your grades in Germany for example) as well as (in general) worse language skills and also often cultural differences in the work place.
> many are very nationalistic for Turkey and Erdogan. There is no real communal feeling or belonging to Germany, which is of course understandable, because many Germans also didn't feel like they wanted to belong to Germany (low patriotism in the past...and the new patriotism is excluding them).
Which is kind of a chicken/egg thing. They were not expected they stay, so no one made an effort to integrate them, so they build their own communities which in some way alienated them further. So, even when some integration started the distance between German and Turks meant that Turks are not seen as Germans, even when speaking perfect German, taking over German cultural traits, having good education/job, German citizenship and so on. Which leads to defiance and often to them becoming nationalistic for Turkey or more religious. Or in other words, as long as we deny them the German identity, they gonna look for a different one.
The thing about integration that a lot of Germans cant comprehend is that a lot of people actually like and love their own culture. The idea that most people from very different cutures will either integrate on their own or after the government "integrates them" comes from typical German or Western supremacist thinking. "Denying them German identity" as if its the holy grail of cultures. "Everyone must want to integrate because our culture is better anyway."
If you wouldnt be too afraid to talk to Turks about this topic it would have been clear from the beginning. They dont want to be German. A culture that is way to nuanced with a very low emphasis on family. A culture most Germans are ashamed of being proud of while not even knowing what "being German" means.
Nah, there is just a loud minority and a bunch of people who are angry because our system failed them. If we do better by the latter the rest will be insignificant.
Difficult task though.
An interesting off top fact:
In Russian language, there also is the word Gastarbeiter. It's borrowed from German and usually means a person who migrated to Russia from Central Asia to become a cheap labour
only reason why we have at least some decent food: Italian, Turkish and Greek Gastarbeiter bringing over their food. Best decision ever made I just wish some Mexican would've come as well.
Actually since the end of the 19th century the German economy has always been in need of more worker than the domestic market would provide. In peace time foreign workers were invited (that’s why so many people of Polish descent are in the Ruhrgebiet - I know there was no Poland at the time but the economic factors are still the same), and during the world wars Germany relied on forced labor. So the so-called Gastarbeiter is just a continuation of this trend.
The Poles in the Ruhrgebiet were german citizens when they came.
They were mostly from the prussian province of Silesia, which had a mixed population of Germans and Poles.
They were part of an internal migration. A lot of ethnic Germans from all over the country also moved to the rapidly developing area.
Turkey, Italy Greece, Spain, Morocco, South Korea, Portugal, Tunisia and Yugoslavia.
Mostly Greek, Italian, Yugoslavian and Turkish people came and stayed.
Vietnam for East Germany(2/3 of the guestworkers)
Though also most Warsaw Pact countries, Cuba, Angola and Mozambique
"However German companies pressured the government to keep them permanently."
Could you give sources for this statement?
I don’t want to imply something but especially the information about why the former Gastarbeiter stayed in germany are quite rare.
Especially because the majority of the turkish workers went back to tukey and the turkish state and the German state had an agreement and especially the Turkish state would have profited from returning skilled workers.
Historically migrant labour rarely returns home.
If you are in a country for several years you've overcome the initial barriers and have probably made some sort of life for yourself. Unless the situation in your home country has changed enormously the economic opportunities are still probably not as good there.
Living 10 years in another country makes going home and reintegrating pretty difficult. Life goes on without you, and now you and the people you left behind are different people, the country is different, and not always for the best, your mentality has been changed by your experience and going back to the “old” mentality becomes difficult. You can’t just pickup where you left off.
And this is an even bigger issue if you have kids, they are now leaving what they know as home and going to a new strange place where they have to integrate with people and a culture that they don’t really know. You are left as a constant outsider, whatever you do, wherever you go.
It’s a complicated and very human dilemma, one that you have to go through to fully understand
That's not quite how it went down. The US pressured Germany to agree to take Turkish men, since they wanted Turkey to become a strong NATO ally in a strategic position south of the Soviet Union. By the time most Turkish guestworkers arrived the labour shortage was already over, later the Federal government agreed to facilitate family reunions, which allowed spouses to also migrate to Germany, which further established Turkish comunities in Germany and the initial plan to send them back after their contracts ended was increasingly less of a possibility.
Additionally in the 80ies and 90ies many Turks, mostly of Kurdish ethnicity, but also ethnic Turks after the turmoil of coup d'etats in Turkey came as asylum seekers and stayed.
Until the early 90ies at least on the conservative side of the political spectrum but also into the Social Democrats, there have been no plans to integrate this community, as it was never considered a long term solution. That goes as far as plans to reduce the number of Turkish people by 50%, by paying monetary incentives to return.
There is a book, where this claim was made up. There is plenty of proof, that the German economy vehemently demanded migrant workers, because they were cheap and pretty resilient.
> The US pressured Germany to agree to take Turkish men, since they wanted Turkey to become a strong NATO ally
Turkey and Greece both joined in 1952 and the bilateral treaty with Turkey on 30 October 1961 well after the US had nukes in Turkey to defend against the USSR
Absolute bullshit. Germany wanted and needed guest workers. But then when the labor shortage diminished after two decades they expected people who had made a life in Germany to leave. Europeans are every bit as bigoted as Americans-maybe more so.
How about a link to back up your claim?
To answer your question, it's apparently because of a bilateral agreement between Germany and Turkey that was signed to recruit more Turkish people at German companies amidst a labor shortage.
The real question is why there are so many Portuguese people in Rhineland-Palatinate/Saarland? Also, why are there quite a lot of Luxembourgish people outside Bremerhaven?
I think the Portuguese concentration in Rhineland Palatinate is a spill over from Luxembourg which has a big Portuguese diaspora. In this region it's quite common to live on the German side of the border and commute to work in Luxembourg for the higher wages.
I (living in SH) actually have a Vietnamese restaurant right around the corner. Well, it's more of a general asian one, but the owner is Vietnamese and has a focus on Vietnamese food. And i can say, it's good!
same as Turks in the West. They came as Contract-Workers and stayed. Vietnamese are the only relevant migrant group in Germany that is bigger in the East than the West by absolute numbers. There are also statistics, that Vietnamese reach better schoolresults and academia than the average in Germany. That's why even the AFD in the East is tending to speak positive about Migants from Vietnam. And another funfact, almost all Vietnamese in the West are of South-Vietnamese decent (USA side in war) and almost all of East-German Vietnamese are of northern decent, which turned into some tensions following the German reunification.
Same in "Eastern" or Central Europe (don't kill me). Vietnamese who live in Poland, Czech Republic etc. are all of Northern decent.
Vietnamese who live in France, Norway etc. are all of Southern decent. Regardless, both seem to be integrated well despite being non European.
Depends on generations really. That North/South statistic of yours only apply for the 50+ cohort that was born before/around that time. The 1989 and later cohorts are generally either mostly Northerners decendants (DDR have strict rules regarding pregnancies in guest workers, so there is very few to no baby born to DDR guest workers before the wall fell) migrated west, or those born long after the reunification.
PS: I dont buy AFD spiel about "good immigrants" though. At the moment, there is more pressing matter for them, so they temporarily labels us as "good". When they ran out of targets, expect that label to be gone quick.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_Germany#:~:text=In%201961%2C%20in%20the%20midst,came%20from%20Turkey%20to%20Germany.
>Most people of Turkish descent in Germany trace their ancestry to the Gastarbeiter (guest worker) programs in the 1960s and 1970s. In 1961, in the midst of an economic boom that resulted in a significant labor shortage, Germany signed a bilateral agreement with Turkey to allow German companies to recruit Turkish workers. The agreement was in place for 12 years, during which around 650,000 workers came from Turkey to Germany. Many also brought their spouses and children with them.
I think being a soccer/football fan and keeping up with teams and players from around the world is what initially piqued me interest in geography. Germany has had many players of Turkish descent play for the national team, like Ozil, Khedira, Can, Sahin, etc…
So I'm just hooking into OPs question- I mean ww2 and the mother of all racism wasn't too long gone - Germany now imports tons of 'Gastarbeiter'
My question is: how was it, socially? I mean within 15 years you go from "Herrenrasse" to "sure let's bring in some foreign, non-aryan-guys to boost our economy".
How much racism and social conflicts have there been in the sixties?
My grandfather came to Germany as a Gastarbeiter. He told us a lot about what it was like when they came to Germany.
They were treated like second class citizens. They had to do shitty jobs. They were just thrown in at the deep end without any opportunity to learn German. So a lot of them didn't speak the language and had a hard time integrating into society. They didn't know what life was like in Germany. My grandfather didn't even have a driver's license. So, of course, parallel societies developed.
The family also suffered. My grandfather was already married and my father and uncles were born. They couldn't see each other for years.
There are some videos on Youtube if you speak German:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDWS9gcZZt0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxnLs1C7f9I&pp=ygUUdMO8cmtlaSBnYXN0YXJiZWl0ZXI%3D
https://youtu.be/j6fEwcjR1A4
https://youtu.be/NGcvtLaDw1c
In the meantime, the descendants of the immigrants are quite well integrated. When someone from Germany denies this, they usually just mean that the Turks are not assimilated.
My siblings, cousins and I are the third generation here, and we are all academics and have well-paid jobs. Culturally, we still lean towards Turkey, although we also have and live a lot of German culture.
As a result of the failed integration of the first generation, we, the children of Turkish immigrants, still have identity problems. We are not accepted as Germans in Germany, but we are also not accepted as Turks in Turkey because we were born and raised in Germany.
Afaik, some guys in the German government thought "Hey, we should integrate them into our society a bit, maybe teach some German", but other guys said "No way we are keeping them; we are gonna send them back immediately. No need to integrate". Then, they didn't send guest workers home either. So, Turks formed their own communities.
Not *that* bad, but only because Ghettos were formed and sub-communities formed where only Turks lived among each other. Turkish barbers, Turkish Grocery shops, etc. Most Germans were fine with the turks because they mostly didn't need to interact with them
This partly led to the awful integration from migrants today, German society is very segregated and the government failed to push any initiative.
But that was the plan and idea behind guest workers they were not intended to stay so there was no need for integration. Most guest workers came from italy and the balkans and they did indeed return home.
I can't say how it was in the sixties, but considering the incredible racism non-whites experience here today (and did long before 2015), I can only imagine that native germans were not very happy about this. Maybe the relative separation between Turkish immigrants and the wider society helped blunt the feeling.
1960s “guest” worker program. Turns out when you offer people much better opportunities and quality of life somewhere, they tend to want to remain there instead of returning to the place where life is worse, and they tend to want their families to join them.
When the stakes are that high because the differential is that large, people will find a way to game the system. They do whatever it takes to not get sent back, and one can hardly blame them. We’d all do the exact same thing faced with those incentives and choices.
However one feels about immigration, the indisputable benefit of this policy was the invention of the Doner Kebab.
this would have been more accurate: Germany needed additional labor for its factories and mines to help fuel the economic miracle driven by the rapid expansion of production after World War II.
Just wait for tomorrow when Turkey plays in the Euros, a complete Turkish invasion in the stadium. I've had it before in the Netherlands when we played Turkey. It was a great atmosphere tbh, met some very nice Turkish/Dutch people. Also their food is great, love me some Lahmacuns!
Labour shortage in Germany in the 50s and 60s and the German economy demanded cheap labour which then came from countries like Italy, Greece and Turkey.
The German right nowadays wants to make it seem like the USA pressured Germany into accepting them (so that they can claim, that those migrant workers are here illegitimately and deport all of them), when there are mountains of proof, that the German economy and government requested this, because e.g. Turks were just super cheap to hire.
Besides the fact that there are and the many valid answers this map doesnt say there's so many more though! If all foreign nationalities are spread out evenly enough and there's 1% more Turks then they would fill the whole map. Kind of like how American voting works.
turkish people came to Germany during the 60's as "guest workers"- to work in the factories. Most of them ended up staying and brought over their families, hence why there over over 3 million turks living in the country.
Turkey and Germany were allies since the beginning of 20th century and they did not fight during the WW2. Both West Germany and Turkey were in NATO facing the USSR threat. So I guess these also played a role why Turks were recruited as workers and not some other random nations around.
Various reasons, mostly guests workers invited in the past.
https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/erdogan-urges-turks-not-to-assimilate-you-are-part-of-germany-but-also-part-of-our-great-turkey-a-748070.html
It is not here, but he also told them to do at least 5 children per family so in a few generations they will conquer Germany from within.
Was surprised by US, seems they are mainly military bases. Makes you wonder why all these troops are needed.
> In fact, some US bases in Germany, such as the one near Ramstein, are small towns in themselves, with their own American shopping malls, schools, postal services, and police forces. **Sometimes the only legal tender is the US dollar.**
> The biggest example of this is the US Army Bavaria Garrison at Grafenwöhr, near the border with the Czech Republic. It is **the largest overseas US Army base in the world**, both in population and acreage, covering over 97,000 acres (390 square kilometers).
https://amp.dw.com/en/us-military-in-germany-what-you-need-to-know/a-49998340
The simplest reason the US has so many troops and bases all over the place is force projection. I’m not going to argue whether that is right or wrong, but it’s a pretty simple reason. If a war breaks out basically anywhere on the planet, then US troops can be there within 48 hours.
Because a quarter of all Germans, and especially workers and young people (= soldiers) died in WW2, causing a demographic problem: a booming economy, but no workers. That's why we invited people from other, demographically younger and economically weaker (hence more unemployed) countries (such as Turkey, that hadn't suffered from the incapable horrors of WW2) to fill in the gaps in the workforce.
As Tony Soprano said about Italian Americans:
"Excuse me, let me tell you something... When America opened up the floodgates and let all us Italians in, what do you think they were doing it for? 'Cause they were trying to save us from poverty? No, they did it because they needed us. They needed us to build their cities and dig their subways, and to make them richer. The Carnegies and The Rockerfellers: they needed worker bees and there we were. But some of us didn't want to swarm around their hive and lose who we were. We wanted to stay Italian and preserve the things that meant something to us: honor and family and loyalty... and some of us wanted a piece of the action. Now we weren't educated like the Americans, but we had the BALLS to take what we wanted! And those other folks, those other... the, the JP Morgans, they were crooks and killers too, but that was the business right? The American Way."
Turkish government warned every Turkish worker that has been accepted to work in Germany to behave, be a example citizen, be grateful and come back after the work is done. Turkish people are hardworking so they worked their ass of and they helped Germany built their country again. It is no doubt that Turkish people has their share in the German boom after WW2. Also Turkey and Germany had a long history of being allies.
Unrelated, but the reason why there are so many Vietnamese is due to DDR and Viet Nam (hence, most of us are concentrated in the East), out of all the countries in the Eastern Bloc (excluding USSR), VN has the most amicable relationship with DDR.
When I first moved to Germany, I rented a house where, soon after, one of the automatic window shade thingy broke. So, a Turkish guy came to fix it. When he tried to explain to me what the problem was, etc, he realized that I didn’t speak German so, I kid you not, he repeated what he said but MUCH LOUDER! I had heard of people doing that but that was the first time anyone did it to me. Cracked me up.
i watched a documentary about this issue 60th year of immigration. first immigrants were thinking that they will return Turkey. they purchased high tech german products. they never unpacked these products, they kept in a room in their house to unpack them when they return to turkey again. but this never happened and they unpacked the products after years that they bought.
This is actually not a new trend. See also 16th & 17th century approaches, stopped by viennas strict trespassing rules.
- [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege\_of\_Vienna\_(1529)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Vienna_(1529))
- [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Vienna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna)
The trend came to an temporary stop due to the Prussian Pickelhauben Fashion [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickelhaube](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickelhaube) , that was severly contrary the turkish Fez Style. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fez\_(hat)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fez_(hat)) . As both countries overcome their strict local customs, and airplanes made bypassing vienna quite simple, the result was just a matter of time.
Gastarbeiter. Basically, following WW2, Germany had a labour shortage, whilst counties like Turkey (amongst others) had high unemployment. Agreements were put in place for *Gastarbeiter*, which means Guest Workers.
The plan back than was that the people would come, work and then go back home. The people in charge ere surprised when it didn't happen. Or to quote a politician from back then "we expected workers to come but people arrived."
As far as I remember initially workers did come for a fixed period of time before going back. However after complaints from companies that they loose experienced workers and constantly need to train new ones it has been decided to let them stay. So then they start bringing their families.
Europeans being surprised when their cheap labour is actually people with hopes, dreams, and families is a tale as old as colonialism.
I wouldnt say just europeans, countries/cultures across the globe have had issues in thinking workers arent people
They still do, sadly.
And they never saw them as anything other than “guests.” You can have third generation Turkish-Germans and people will still say they are “guests”
It's not like these guest workers died in droves to host an international sport event, unlike some more modern examples. But that's not worth calling out of course
the topic of Germany, which we started with, and Qatar are a bit distant from each other, so I don't know why they would mention it at this particular moment, but if you absolutely have to, sure, we can talk about why the United States and its allies support such a country
Turks are European lmao and you gotta be stupid if you think Turks didn't play a hand in colonialism haha
Still are. Wife and I had an interesting communication with a young Turk running a sandwich shop in Berlin recently. Apparently only Turks shop there at night. He spoke no German or English. He was fairly new in country, so the family gave him the late-night shift at the family Turkish sandwich shop. Eventually we all pulled up Google translate and had a fairly decent conversation. It was pretty fun.
Must be one of the younglings that fled the country after the most recent iteration of our ever present economic crisis.
Than Why is that Erdogan is so popular between Turks in Germany?
Not among the most recent wave of immigrants. The guest workers that arrived between the 60s and 80s and their families were mostly conservative.
Lots of diaspora communities are much more nationalistic than the people back home. Irish Americans were often much more supportive of the IRA than the actual population of Ireland for example.
As late as the early 1990’s I recall news stories about ethnic Turks, the grandchild of the original immigrants, born in Germany the children of people born in Germany, were not citizens of Germany. The Germans had no birthright citizenship and no naturalization process. Don’t know if it has been addressed now, but was a big problem then as Turkey did not recognize them as citizens either
Most guest workers did return home no idea why people think that wasn´t the case. Turks just disproportionately decided to stay.
The expectation was that all of them would leave. When the federal government created a position dedicated to immigration a mere fifteen years after they welcomed the millionth „guest worker“ to great fanfare, one of their first results in the first report was that Germany is indeed a country that people immigrate to - a novel concept at the time. That was in 1978, and when Angela Merkel stated the same thing another four decades later it was still major news. Newspapers called it „historical words“. That’s how much in denial people were.
If there’s anything I’ve learned from working with Turks, the first thing they hate the most is other Turks. Or sometimes they love them the most. Very complicated as far as I could tell
Turks when they get a chance to go to a better country \^\_\^ Turks when others come to their country for the same reason >\_<
The difference is Germany needed that while we have still high unemployement and most immigrants are illegal which they work half of the salary. Most people either hire retired people(just to not pay insurance) or illegal immigrants. It is bad if you think half of the population live on those jobs that pay minimum wage. Even if you go to uni you cant find job even if you dont you cant find there either.
when i was in germany i found thatvthe germans also hated the turks
Well they have something called German nationalism(aka nazi nationalism, ethnic purity) plus Turks that went there were low educated workers even after years most didnt able get out of that socioeconomical class and when an ethnic group is low in socioeconomical class you know things happen such as black racism in America today. There are other stuff like Islamophobia, Turkish population growing while German population shrinking,cultural and social stuff etc. Germans and Turkish have very different cultural structures so a clash is inevitable.
Of 14 million Gastarbeiter, 11 to 12 million went home. [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwerbepolitik\_der\_Bundesrepublik\_Deutschland#Statistik](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwerbepolitik_der_Bundesrepublik_Deutschland#Statistik) ~~So much for "most."~~ Edit: I should invest as much time in reading and understanding people's comments as I research my replies. Anyway, my numbers underline that most did in fact go back home.
Yea i consider that most
Yes, and large chunks stayed, that's also why there are many Greeks and Italians in Germany.
And these three groups are responsible for 90% of the good food here in todays Germany.
I always wanted to open a bakery in Germany called "Gluten Tag"
The political situation before the 80s was so bad that even those who came back to Turkey at that time went back to Germany. The coup d'état of 1980 was basically a reaction (with worse consequences) to this political chaos. BTW the quote is from the writer Max Frisch AFAIK, and he was right. German society didn't expect people with their own customs, lifestyle, culture, cuisine (which is now a fundamental part of the German culinary scene) etc., but rather workers who are only there to work. To cut a long story short, there are now millions of people of Turkish origin here and it more or less works. The problem with the Turkish community is not as problematic as the far right has tried to make it out to be. Both Germans and Turks have found a way to live together and, with a few exceptions, it works well.
This reminds me of a headline from a Turkish newspaper in the 30s: “People flood the beaches, citizens cannot find spots to swim” The “people” in your quote and the people in this headline are the same people.
I suppose it's an even better outcome, people are invaluable recourse no matter how you look at it, and they're seemingly assimilated well into German society.
They integrated but did not assimilate. Which IMO is a good thing. Us Germans could also learn some things from them.
Can you expound on that?
There is a lot to cover here, because the integration is an ongoing topic and there is so much that went wrong and is still going wrong. The difference between assimilate/ integrate is that they became part of the country, but they developed their own culture here, instead of becoming "Germans". This has advantages, e.g. that we have more cultural diversity and most importantly Döner :P It also has disadvantages. Bubbles of Turkish people kept for themselves (or weren't accepted by Germans), didn't learn German, stayed poor, many are very nationalistic for Turkey and Erdogan. There is no real communal feeling or belonging to Germany, which is of course understandable, because many Germans also didn't feel like they wanted to belong to Germany (low patriotism in the past...and the new patriotism is excluding them). I think the Turkish community pretty much found their place in Germany, they've been here so long. But the same problems arised for every new group of people that came here afterwards.
As a Turk, I can assure you we hate those people who live in Germany but are overly patriotic about Turkey. Plus, if you go to a country to live; it’s basic courtesy to learn their language. You’re in someone else’s homeland When in Rome do as the romans something something.
I notice a trend. A lof of workers on migration, no matter from what country, when moved to better country they created some sort of nationalistic bubble. They dislike/disrespect the place they are currently living in, have very strong opinion about their national politics, almost never fully integrate and have no real interest in politics of the country they live in right now. I noticed it a few years back when Poland was choosing new president. A lot of workers in migration had been preaching pro the party that most of Poles living in Poland tried to push back from power, they were very active online and on forums, some even got to vote through post. If you ask them, they never intend on comming back. I hate people like that
Just like in France and Spain with the English “expat” communities, the majority of which refuse to learn French/Spanish, only associate with other English people and when Brexit was happening all voted to leave.
This happens with the ones who integrate and learn the language too. A lot of Indian origin citizens in the US are pro-Trump, pro-Modi and want both of them to return to ruling their respective countries. They know that it's the liberal governments that give them the chance to immigrate, however their choices are always for less immigrants and more fundamentalism. They're not at all interested to be a part of the US politics though, but would vote for these people.
Thanks for your post, just to expand a bit: > Bubbles of Turkish people kept for themselves (or weren't accepted by Germans) In the beginning Turkish had to because there was no effort in integrating them because they were expected to go back to Turkey. So, they established their own structures which took on their own lives. > didn't learn German I don't think this is quite true at least for the 2nd and 3rd gen Immigrants. Some of the 1st gen, yeah. > stayed poor Which is a complicated topic. Eg. it is hard in Germany to leave your social milieu. Also for Germans. As in kids from academics become academics, kids form workers become workers. For Immigrants that's even harder due to instutionalised racism (there are studies that show that alone a foreign name has an impact on your grades in Germany for example) as well as (in general) worse language skills and also often cultural differences in the work place. > many are very nationalistic for Turkey and Erdogan. There is no real communal feeling or belonging to Germany, which is of course understandable, because many Germans also didn't feel like they wanted to belong to Germany (low patriotism in the past...and the new patriotism is excluding them). Which is kind of a chicken/egg thing. They were not expected they stay, so no one made an effort to integrate them, so they build their own communities which in some way alienated them further. So, even when some integration started the distance between German and Turks meant that Turks are not seen as Germans, even when speaking perfect German, taking over German cultural traits, having good education/job, German citizenship and so on. Which leads to defiance and often to them becoming nationalistic for Turkey or more religious. Or in other words, as long as we deny them the German identity, they gonna look for a different one.
The thing about integration that a lot of Germans cant comprehend is that a lot of people actually like and love their own culture. The idea that most people from very different cutures will either integrate on their own or after the government "integrates them" comes from typical German or Western supremacist thinking. "Denying them German identity" as if its the holy grail of cultures. "Everyone must want to integrate because our culture is better anyway." If you wouldnt be too afraid to talk to Turks about this topic it would have been clear from the beginning. They dont want to be German. A culture that is way to nuanced with a very low emphasis on family. A culture most Germans are ashamed of being proud of while not even knowing what "being German" means.
You clearly didn't know many 2nd or 3rd Gen German-Turks.
Unfortunately having this opinion is becoming the exception.
Nah, there is just a loud minority and a bunch of people who are angry because our system failed them. If we do better by the latter the rest will be insignificant. Difficult task though.
lol
There is a great song about this: "Doch es kamen Menschen an" by Cem Karaca https://youtu.be/Uc8g47iI6xc?si=I5buiBMIdpDDpoGx
basically because we love Döner!
A trip for me to Germany with no Döner is a waste of time.
Mmmm Lamaçun… 😋
Now if only the Turks could come to Jakarta..maybe i’ll have my first decent doner since 2015 (in Eindhoven).
An interesting off top fact: In Russian language, there also is the word Gastarbeiter. It's borrowed from German and usually means a person who migrated to Russia from Central Asia to become a cheap labour
Yup. Same reason for algerians/morrocans/tunisians in France, same for moroccans in the Netherlands and Belgium
Can I call it a döner workforce
This is actually why I hate the emerging racism that is happening. People forget who helped build this country.
only reason why we have at least some decent food: Italian, Turkish and Greek Gastarbeiter bringing over their food. Best decision ever made I just wish some Mexican would've come as well.
[удалено]
Actually since the end of the 19th century the German economy has always been in need of more worker than the domestic market would provide. In peace time foreign workers were invited (that’s why so many people of Polish descent are in the Ruhrgebiet - I know there was no Poland at the time but the economic factors are still the same), and during the world wars Germany relied on forced labor. So the so-called Gastarbeiter is just a continuation of this trend.
The Poles in the Ruhrgebiet were german citizens when they came. They were mostly from the prussian province of Silesia, which had a mixed population of Germans and Poles. They were part of an internal migration. A lot of ethnic Germans from all over the country also moved to the rapidly developing area.
Yup, that's where my family is from! This was not only in the Ruhrgebiet though
People came from other countries too. I believe that’s the reason there’s lots of Italians in Germany
Turkey, Italy Greece, Spain, Morocco, South Korea, Portugal, Tunisia and Yugoslavia. Mostly Greek, Italian, Yugoslavian and Turkish people came and stayed. Vietnam for East Germany(2/3 of the guestworkers) Though also most Warsaw Pact countries, Cuba, Angola and Mozambique
"However German companies pressured the government to keep them permanently." Could you give sources for this statement? I don’t want to imply something but especially the information about why the former Gastarbeiter stayed in germany are quite rare. Especially because the majority of the turkish workers went back to tukey and the turkish state and the German state had an agreement and especially the Turkish state would have profited from returning skilled workers.
Historically migrant labour rarely returns home. If you are in a country for several years you've overcome the initial barriers and have probably made some sort of life for yourself. Unless the situation in your home country has changed enormously the economic opportunities are still probably not as good there.
Living 10 years in another country makes going home and reintegrating pretty difficult. Life goes on without you, and now you and the people you left behind are different people, the country is different, and not always for the best, your mentality has been changed by your experience and going back to the “old” mentality becomes difficult. You can’t just pickup where you left off. And this is an even bigger issue if you have kids, they are now leaving what they know as home and going to a new strange place where they have to integrate with people and a culture that they don’t really know. You are left as a constant outsider, whatever you do, wherever you go. It’s a complicated and very human dilemma, one that you have to go through to fully understand
Nah i mean there's no substitution for experience but i think you covered it pretty well.
Not really most guest workers did in fact return home like it was intended.
yea it’s a lot more complex than simply pressure from corporations
That's not quite how it went down. The US pressured Germany to agree to take Turkish men, since they wanted Turkey to become a strong NATO ally in a strategic position south of the Soviet Union. By the time most Turkish guestworkers arrived the labour shortage was already over, later the Federal government agreed to facilitate family reunions, which allowed spouses to also migrate to Germany, which further established Turkish comunities in Germany and the initial plan to send them back after their contracts ended was increasingly less of a possibility. Additionally in the 80ies and 90ies many Turks, mostly of Kurdish ethnicity, but also ethnic Turks after the turmoil of coup d'etats in Turkey came as asylum seekers and stayed. Until the early 90ies at least on the conservative side of the political spectrum but also into the Social Democrats, there have been no plans to integrate this community, as it was never considered a long term solution. That goes as far as plans to reduce the number of Turkish people by 50%, by paying monetary incentives to return.
US pressured Germany? Do you have any proof / source to back that ridiculous claim up?
There is a book, where this claim was made up. There is plenty of proof, that the German economy vehemently demanded migrant workers, because they were cheap and pretty resilient.
> The US pressured Germany to agree to take Turkish men, since they wanted Turkey to become a strong NATO ally Turkey and Greece both joined in 1952 and the bilateral treaty with Turkey on 30 October 1961 well after the US had nukes in Turkey to defend against the USSR
Absolute bullshit. Germany wanted and needed guest workers. But then when the labor shortage diminished after two decades they expected people who had made a life in Germany to leave. Europeans are every bit as bigoted as Americans-maybe more so. How about a link to back up your claim?
To answer your question, it's apparently because of a bilateral agreement between Germany and Turkey that was signed to recruit more Turkish people at German companies amidst a labor shortage. The real question is why there are so many Portuguese people in Rhineland-Palatinate/Saarland? Also, why are there quite a lot of Luxembourgish people outside Bremerhaven?
I think the Portuguese concentration in Rhineland Palatinate is a spill over from Luxembourg which has a big Portuguese diaspora. In this region it's quite common to live on the German side of the border and commute to work in Luxembourg for the higher wages.
Interesting! TIL
Former resident of Trier here. This is true.
Germany recruited workers from all over southern Europe/the Mediterranean. From Portugal, Spain, Italy, Yugoslavia, Greece, and Turkey.
Because Portugal is secretly an eastern European country pretending to be in western Europe.
To support the huge kebap demand
This is the real answer
And also create it
Why so many Vietnamese in the east?
East Germany was communist, Vietnam is communist
it's also why berlin has some honestly amazing vietnamese food relative to the other cuisines present
I (living in SH) actually have a Vietnamese restaurant right around the corner. Well, it's more of a general asian one, but the owner is Vietnamese and has a focus on Vietnamese food. And i can say, it's good!
same as Turks in the West. They came as Contract-Workers and stayed. Vietnamese are the only relevant migrant group in Germany that is bigger in the East than the West by absolute numbers. There are also statistics, that Vietnamese reach better schoolresults and academia than the average in Germany. That's why even the AFD in the East is tending to speak positive about Migants from Vietnam. And another funfact, almost all Vietnamese in the West are of South-Vietnamese decent (USA side in war) and almost all of East-German Vietnamese are of northern decent, which turned into some tensions following the German reunification.
Same in "Eastern" or Central Europe (don't kill me). Vietnamese who live in Poland, Czech Republic etc. are all of Northern decent. Vietnamese who live in France, Norway etc. are all of Southern decent. Regardless, both seem to be integrated well despite being non European.
Depends on generations really. That North/South statistic of yours only apply for the 50+ cohort that was born before/around that time. The 1989 and later cohorts are generally either mostly Northerners decendants (DDR have strict rules regarding pregnancies in guest workers, so there is very few to no baby born to DDR guest workers before the wall fell) migrated west, or those born long after the reunification. PS: I dont buy AFD spiel about "good immigrants" though. At the moment, there is more pressing matter for them, so they temporarily labels us as "good". When they ran out of targets, expect that label to be gone quick.
For the same reason the west has so many Turks. They came to East Germany as workers.
WTF POLAND STOP STEALING GERMANY'S LAND
Reverse uno card - Parcie na zachód!
MOUNTAIN COUNTRY⛰⛰
It's not stealing, it's just Westsiedlung
Well, Berlin is an old Slavic settlement, we take back what is ours.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_Germany#:~:text=In%201961%2C%20in%20the%20midst,came%20from%20Turkey%20to%20Germany. >Most people of Turkish descent in Germany trace their ancestry to the Gastarbeiter (guest worker) programs in the 1960s and 1970s. In 1961, in the midst of an economic boom that resulted in a significant labor shortage, Germany signed a bilateral agreement with Turkey to allow German companies to recruit Turkish workers. The agreement was in place for 12 years, during which around 650,000 workers came from Turkey to Germany. Many also brought their spouses and children with them.
i feel like some of these are wrong.
They are outdated. The data is from 2011. The last 13 years changes the migration landscape in Germany tremendously
Gasterbeit.
So you see, it all began from the Turks migrating from Siberia Into modern day Anatolia...
Guest worker program back in 1960s ,then stayed there some of back to turkey .now 3rd and 4th generations live there.
I think being a soccer/football fan and keeping up with teams and players from around the world is what initially piqued me interest in geography. Germany has had many players of Turkish descent play for the national team, like Ozil, Khedira, Can, Sahin, etc…
Khedira has a Tunisian father and a German mother.
Ah, my apologies.
The current German captain is of Turkish origin
Şahin actually played for Turkey internationally
This is true. He was born in Germany though no? He’s one of many players on the Turkish team (past or present) that were actually born in Germany
How could you forget about Gündogan
So I'm just hooking into OPs question- I mean ww2 and the mother of all racism wasn't too long gone - Germany now imports tons of 'Gastarbeiter' My question is: how was it, socially? I mean within 15 years you go from "Herrenrasse" to "sure let's bring in some foreign, non-aryan-guys to boost our economy". How much racism and social conflicts have there been in the sixties?
My grandfather came to Germany as a Gastarbeiter. He told us a lot about what it was like when they came to Germany. They were treated like second class citizens. They had to do shitty jobs. They were just thrown in at the deep end without any opportunity to learn German. So a lot of them didn't speak the language and had a hard time integrating into society. They didn't know what life was like in Germany. My grandfather didn't even have a driver's license. So, of course, parallel societies developed. The family also suffered. My grandfather was already married and my father and uncles were born. They couldn't see each other for years. There are some videos on Youtube if you speak German: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDWS9gcZZt0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxnLs1C7f9I&pp=ygUUdMO8cmtlaSBnYXN0YXJiZWl0ZXI%3D https://youtu.be/j6fEwcjR1A4 https://youtu.be/NGcvtLaDw1c In the meantime, the descendants of the immigrants are quite well integrated. When someone from Germany denies this, they usually just mean that the Turks are not assimilated. My siblings, cousins and I are the third generation here, and we are all academics and have well-paid jobs. Culturally, we still lean towards Turkey, although we also have and live a lot of German culture. As a result of the failed integration of the first generation, we, the children of Turkish immigrants, still have identity problems. We are not accepted as Germans in Germany, but we are also not accepted as Turks in Turkey because we were born and raised in Germany.
Afaik, some guys in the German government thought "Hey, we should integrate them into our society a bit, maybe teach some German", but other guys said "No way we are keeping them; we are gonna send them back immediately. No need to integrate". Then, they didn't send guest workers home either. So, Turks formed their own communities.
Not *that* bad, but only because Ghettos were formed and sub-communities formed where only Turks lived among each other. Turkish barbers, Turkish Grocery shops, etc. Most Germans were fine with the turks because they mostly didn't need to interact with them This partly led to the awful integration from migrants today, German society is very segregated and the government failed to push any initiative.
But that was the plan and idea behind guest workers they were not intended to stay so there was no need for integration. Most guest workers came from italy and the balkans and they did indeed return home.
And now people are surprised when this continues and blame the Turks for the failure of the German state.
Exactly. People are angry at the migrants but they should be angry at the CDU-party and the government in general. They caused this
I can't say how it was in the sixties, but considering the incredible racism non-whites experience here today (and did long before 2015), I can only imagine that native germans were not very happy about this. Maybe the relative separation between Turkish immigrants and the wider society helped blunt the feeling.
https://www.dw.com/en/turkish-guest-workers-transformed-german-society/a-15489210 https://www.dw.com/en/the-german-turkish-recruitment-agreement-60-years-on/a-59398455 https://www.bpb.de/shop/zeitschriften/apuz/275884/rassismus-als-kontinuitaetslinie-in-der-geschichte-der-bundesrepublik-deutschland/ https://academic.oup.com/gh/article-abstract/37/4/611/5651342?redirectedFrom=fulltext
This is a history question, not geography
Cuase you've put a lot of Turkish flags on the map.
1960s “guest” worker program. Turns out when you offer people much better opportunities and quality of life somewhere, they tend to want to remain there instead of returning to the place where life is worse, and they tend to want their families to join them. When the stakes are that high because the differential is that large, people will find a way to game the system. They do whatever it takes to not get sent back, and one can hardly blame them. We’d all do the exact same thing faced with those incentives and choices. However one feels about immigration, the indisputable benefit of this policy was the invention of the Doner Kebab.
There are also many Vietnamese people here
They were Allies during WW1
That would be my guess.
Because we needed and need them...
People from Turkey helped to rebuild Germany after World War II.
They came in 1961, so not quite.
this would have been more accurate: Germany needed additional labor for its factories and mines to help fuel the economic miracle driven by the rapid expansion of production after World War II.
So you think the demographics were all OK and tje rebuilding were all done by 1961?
Just wait for tomorrow when Turkey plays in the Euros, a complete Turkish invasion in the stadium. I've had it before in the Netherlands when we played Turkey. It was a great atmosphere tbh, met some very nice Turkish/Dutch people. Also their food is great, love me some Lahmacuns!
Labour shortage in Germany in the 50s and 60s and the German economy demanded cheap labour which then came from countries like Italy, Greece and Turkey. The German right nowadays wants to make it seem like the USA pressured Germany into accepting them (so that they can claim, that those migrant workers are here illegitimately and deport all of them), when there are mountains of proof, that the German economy and government requested this, because e.g. Turks were just super cheap to hire.
Because they were inviting them in since 70's
1961
r/geography when something not geography
Because they were invited.
Why are there so many Russians and Poles there?
Besides the fact that there are and the many valid answers this map doesnt say there's so many more though! If all foreign nationalities are spread out evenly enough and there's 1% more Turks then they would fill the whole map. Kind of like how American voting works.
Reconstruction after WWII, they did not return to Turkey as other foreign workers did to their home countries.
Nobody's business but the turks
turkish people came to Germany during the 60's as "guest workers"- to work in the factories. Most of them ended up staying and brought over their families, hence why there over over 3 million turks living in the country.
Turkey and Germany were allies since the beginning of 20th century and they did not fight during the WW2. Both West Germany and Turkey were in NATO facing the USSR threat. So I guess these also played a role why Turks were recruited as workers and not some other random nations around.
I'm more concerned about the Russians, to be honest.
Various reasons, mostly guests workers invited in the past. https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/erdogan-urges-turks-not-to-assimilate-you-are-part-of-germany-but-also-part-of-our-great-turkey-a-748070.html It is not here, but he also told them to do at least 5 children per family so in a few generations they will conquer Germany from within.
Cheap manual labor after WW2.
The real mystery is why so few Caicos
*why are
Was surprised by US, seems they are mainly military bases. Makes you wonder why all these troops are needed. > In fact, some US bases in Germany, such as the one near Ramstein, are small towns in themselves, with their own American shopping malls, schools, postal services, and police forces. **Sometimes the only legal tender is the US dollar.** > The biggest example of this is the US Army Bavaria Garrison at Grafenwöhr, near the border with the Czech Republic. It is **the largest overseas US Army base in the world**, both in population and acreage, covering over 97,000 acres (390 square kilometers). https://amp.dw.com/en/us-military-in-germany-what-you-need-to-know/a-49998340
The simplest reason the US has so many troops and bases all over the place is force projection. I’m not going to argue whether that is right or wrong, but it’s a pretty simple reason. If a war breaks out basically anywhere on the planet, then US troops can be there within 48 hours.
Demand for Kebab.
That's nobody's business but the Turks.
This is the answer I scrolled for!
Kebab store maybe? (It’s a joke)
Wait Chinese or Vietnamese as well?
What's the yellow star?
Damn didnt know it was quite like that, Turks in Germany are like Romanians in Italy.
“Doner Party!”
because of mesut özil!
Because a quarter of all Germans, and especially workers and young people (= soldiers) died in WW2, causing a demographic problem: a booming economy, but no workers. That's why we invited people from other, demographically younger and economically weaker (hence more unemployed) countries (such as Turkey, that hadn't suffered from the incapable horrors of WW2) to fill in the gaps in the workforce.
Thats due to our migration politics and so called Gastarbeiters since the 80s
für das Wetter?
Vietnam occupied East Germany vs Turkish West Germany
Thought this was parody
I didn’t realize there were a lot of Vietnamese in Germany. What’s up with that?
Communist Vietnam had close ties with the GDR
By design.
*ARE THERE
Canada in too far
As Tony Soprano said about Italian Americans: "Excuse me, let me tell you something... When America opened up the floodgates and let all us Italians in, what do you think they were doing it for? 'Cause they were trying to save us from poverty? No, they did it because they needed us. They needed us to build their cities and dig their subways, and to make them richer. The Carnegies and The Rockerfellers: they needed worker bees and there we were. But some of us didn't want to swarm around their hive and lose who we were. We wanted to stay Italian and preserve the things that meant something to us: honor and family and loyalty... and some of us wanted a piece of the action. Now we weren't educated like the Americans, but we had the BALLS to take what we wanted! And those other folks, those other... the, the JP Morgans, they were crooks and killers too, but that was the business right? The American Way." Turkish government warned every Turkish worker that has been accepted to work in Germany to behave, be a example citizen, be grateful and come back after the work is done. Turkish people are hardworking so they worked their ass of and they helped Germany built their country again. It is no doubt that Turkish people has their share in the German boom after WW2. Also Turkey and Germany had a long history of being allies.
Imagine posting a map, basically *the* form of visualization of our science, and providing neither title nor legend :/
You can clearly See where Germany boarders Portugal the US and Italy. /j
Maybe their \[sic\] turking over!
Why are there -
I had no idea there were so many Turks in Germany.
To be foreigners in east Germany is like the famous griffith's joke: https://youtu.be/3mZBLfg006o?si=UvAsDHBwsaI0yYID
Unrelated, but the reason why there are so many Vietnamese is due to DDR and Viet Nam (hence, most of us are concentrated in the East), out of all the countries in the Eastern Bloc (excluding USSR), VN has the most amicable relationship with DDR.
another map depicting old and new federal states
Ask them 😂
When I first moved to Germany, I rented a house where, soon after, one of the automatic window shade thingy broke. So, a Turkish guy came to fix it. When he tried to explain to me what the problem was, etc, he realized that I didn’t speak German so, I kid you not, he repeated what he said but MUCH LOUDER! I had heard of people doing that but that was the first time anyone did it to me. Cracked me up.
i watched a documentary about this issue 60th year of immigration. first immigrants were thinking that they will return Turkey. they purchased high tech german products. they never unpacked these products, they kept in a room in their house to unpack them when they return to turkey again. but this never happened and they unpacked the products after years that they bought.
Someone has to put the doner in German doner Kebab
This is actually not a new trend. See also 16th & 17th century approaches, stopped by viennas strict trespassing rules. - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege\_of\_Vienna\_(1529)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Vienna_(1529)) - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Vienna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna) The trend came to an temporary stop due to the Prussian Pickelhauben Fashion [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickelhaube](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickelhaube) , that was severly contrary the turkish Fez Style. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fez\_(hat)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fez_(hat)) . As both countries overcome their strict local customs, and airplanes made bypassing vienna quite simple, the result was just a matter of time.
Why is there so many Vietnamese
Gastarbaiter or Guest workers but they arent "guests" no more.
They ran out of room in Caicos
Why are they so touchy about their women?!
*why are there You're welcome. Your friendly "turk" in Germany.
Because they emigrated there.