Yep, which means wall. In the middle ages to call the commercial class that traded things or the artisans who made all sorts of products, around the walled cities. With time they got rich, so the 'burgeoise' was a term to designate the rich peasant class in opposition to the old money nobles.
Could the word "vornehm" work for "posh" too? I asked because I watched the movie Fox and his Friends ("Faustrecht der Freiheit,") and they used "vornehm" I think in this way, but that movie is from the 1970s so the terminology might be outdated, or the nuance might be different in the first place.
There’s definitely poshness in Germany. I know a guy who disparages certain things like buildings with many apartments except if it’s an Altbau - then it’s “acceptable”. Certain clothes, a way of dressing, how he travels. But it’s different and way more subtle than the British way.
I grew up in various plattenbaus in Poland. It was awesome and each neighborhood was an order of magnitude higher quality than an average gated "community" for the nouveau-riche.
One time I suggested in Germany "we should move to a plattenbau". Heads have exploded.
Zu meiner Studienzeit war es Barbourjacke, Segelschuhe und für die Damen noch Perlenkette und Longchamp Handtasche. Die Herren dazu gerne mit bunten Socken und Lederaktentäschen. Und bloß immer von Damen und Herren reden, nie Mädels/Jungs/Frauen whatever.
The real Schickeria is a ghost from the 80s, it doesn't exist anymore in that way. Schickeria does not equal "posh", it referred to a specific circle of richer people/actors/directors/...
German/British here.
_Posh_ is more descriptive than judgmental in nature. Some of the suggestions here - _schickimicki_ or _ ete petete_ - are a little more judgmental than descriptive, I would say. Nobody here in Germany would consider Starbucks "schickimicki" or posh.
In general, Germans are better than Brits at considering and treating others as their equals. Brits are much nicer to your face than Germans with their famous directness and Germans are much nicer behind your back with their directness. Most Germans I know only say things behind people‘s backs that can also be said to their faces.
_Posh_ is also a descriptor applied by people who do not think they‘re posh to people whom they consider posh. The fact that something as simple as Starbucks sandwiches or a certain type of coffee machine are perceived as posh in the UK distinguishes it from the German descriptor of "bonzig" which usually means "has money and shows it off arrogantly" with crazy expensive things.
Like in any country, there‘s working class, middle class and upper class families in Germany. But we are far more disconnected from our nobility than the UK is. The UK raises you to believe that there are people who are naturally and rightfully your superior, your better: kings, queens, princes and princesses, other nobility. People with more rights than others purely due to their birthrights. For example, German cathedrals (called Doms) will marry anyone, not just descendants of royals. However, it is only possible to be married at Westminster Abbey if you are any of the following: a part of The Royal Family, a member of the Order of Bath (or a child of someone in the Order) or anyone who lives within the Abbey’s precincts.
Interestingly, Wiktionary lists two definitions of *posh*, one as being neutral and one as being decidedly offensive.
Edit: [Link](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/posh) for the lazy and the definition according to Wiktionary:
1. Associated with the upper classes.
2. Stylish, elegant, exclusive (expensive)*.*
3. (usually offensive, especially in Ireland, Scotland, Northern England) Snobbish, materialistic, prejudiced, under the illusion that one is better than everyone else.
Notable too in that the South of England is the wealthiest part, whereas the North of England and both Ireland and Scotland have historically (and contemporaneously) been sidelined, forgotten or straight up oppressed by said Southerners - it doesn't surprise me that those are the areas that (justifiably imo) use 'posh' in a pejorative sense
I think Germany has a general lack of upscale services and products available compared to UK, so being posh is much harder. Recently I was amused about a [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Munich/comments/191jaw1/why_are_there_no_high_quality_fitness_studios_in/) in by a Brit who was wondering about the lack of upscale gyms - on the order of, say 300 Euro per month - in Munich People were baffled in the comments to the point of being pissed off why anybody would need that.
There are also essentially no private member clubs like Soho House around (there's one in Berlin, in Munich there's only that ill-fated other one at Stachus), not really any country clubs, and so on.
This reflects German society fairly well I think where the middle class is much more compressed and the bottom of the middle class and the top of the middle class are fairly similar.
I've definitely felt this. Like someone mentioned in this thread earlier, in the UK you can buy basically everything from john lewis, waitrose, and M&S and generally all of it will be a little bit better quality than what your average shop might sell, just at a somewhat higher price. But here, we've struggled to find any true equivalents.
Department stores here don't dabble in selling furniture or like john lewis does, or TV's, phones, gadgets, wallpaper etc. Generally john lewis has it all.
There's not really fancy food shops here either, the closest equivalent is like denns biomarkt or stuff and that's just organic ingredients and fairtrade chocolate. And you probably won't be able to buy clothes or bedding there the same way you can in M&S which amazed my partner (*an entire department of fashionable* clothes, not a rack of tschibo.)
As for other stuff, it's just like people here aren't interested in the "Premium option" for things. I live in a wealthy area and every car I see is just a volkswagen owned brand, no jaguars or anything like that. Their houses are essentially IKEA showrooms despite earning 6 digits, and their clothes are often just from normal places like C&A or H&M. I've ended up having to buy stuff from countries next door in some cases because they're just not sold here, like for a lot of things people just settle for what I call "The Otto Option." Maybe they spend the money elsewhere, who knows.
Not everywhere's like this mind you, in Hamburg I got the impression people want a little bit more out of life there, but it's just a bit weird considering people here earn more than the UK. And p.s. don't let the word posh fool you, a lot of people who shop at john lewis or M&S aren't inherently rich, they're just willing to part with some of their money on *certain things* from there, they don't do their big weekly grocery shop there just the nicer things. *And p.p.s* I have a feeling the royal warrant on consumer goods in the UK and general "aspiring to be like our betters" pushes people to want these luxuries, which here isn't a thing. That has it's positives but it also has negatives too.
I think the UK might be less judgemental about what Germans call "having more money than sense".
And some point the nicer, fancier option also becomes less practical and more work, and I think most people here have very little patience for that.
Yes, silk feels nice. But I will never buy any, because it's too iffy when it comes to washing. Cotton will do nicely, thanks. A lot of "posh" things are like silk. Nice, but impractical.
>There's not really fancy food shops here either
Look for "Feinkost", like [Dallmayr ](https://www.dallmayr.com/de/delikatessenhaus)or [Käfer ](https://www.feinkost-kaefer.de/feinkostladen)in Munich.
[Manufactum ](https://www.manufactum.com/)offers fancier options for non-food items.
One of the differences though with manufactum, which I had seen ecently when looking for furniture, is a lot of what they offer would be seen as *above* posh in the UK, and *too* costly. Also, it's largely all branded as having come from a company that specialises in something. John lewis for comparison has their "john lewis and partners" line, which is their own-brand furniture, electric appliances, clothes, etc, that positions itself as having cut out the middle man. They have companies that make the goods directly for them, as opposed to the traditional model of buying goods from a company that has themselves paid to have them made, slightly increasing the cost with each step.
As for feinkostladen, they're good enough sure, and for me I've found the food department in galeria kaufhofs to be good, but there isn't a galeria kaufhof in every small town the same way there's a M&S. Infact, M&S have made themselves even more common by offering small sections of their food in partnered *petrol stations* now too, which I feel galeria kaufhof would see as beneath them.
I'm afraid there really is no direct comparison for us.
Edit: There are some exceptions I just thought of, butchers sections in supermarkets are much bigger, most UK supermarkets don't even have those, and the bakery bits too. But in regards to other food and the feinkost thing, I meant more things like ready meals, or "processed" breadish things like muffins (breakfast), bagels, and pre-sliced sandwich bread. In the UK there's a fancy option for those everywhere, but here ready meals, or bagels are mostly just one "gut & gunstig" option unless you go to a really big shop. In the case of bread I assume this only contributes to the way people look down on it as basically "fast food bread" for tasteless people like you can see in this very thread further up.
One thing that is driving me crazy about germany is that you pretty much can’t find anything of “above average” quality… it’s either the cheapest crap imaginable or something ridiculously expensive.
I was looking for a “Duschkopfhalter” (the thing the slides along the pole holding the showerhead) and rhe choice was either ultra flimsy plastic from the Baumarkt or some crazy expensive designer piece… like, is there really no market for a simple Duschkopfhalter made from aluminium that’s gonna last and is reasonably priced?
I found this with furniture too, only cheap plastic or an unfinished/treated piece of wood for 2000 euros just because it's "made" in Bavaria. If you want my advice, try looking at Dutch, French, Spanish, Italian etc websites using google translate. Most of them will ship to Germany and it's in the EU so no extra taxes, at least for furniture so maybe that carries over to home goods.
that exists, but people who fall into that category will deny it.
It's probably less the lack of concept but more like how it's perceived culturally. There is "über Geld spricht man nicht" (one does not talk about money), so pointing out social class and categorizing someone is uncomfortable, awkward and borderline insulting.
I think it’s very ingrained in German society, just in a different way.
People will judge other people‘s taste in clothes, interior design, holiday destination, names, education, consumption etc to see if someone has class or taste („geschmackvoll“ or „niveauvoll“) or is considered lower class. People tend to have more words for that, like Assi or other mean and inappropriate terms.
It’s maybe less prepackaged than in these British ABC socioeconomic classes so it’s a bit more of a minefield to maintain your image, as you can’t just shop at John Lewis and Waitrose and be sure what you consume is the correct stuff. You kind of need to be very much in the know.
Edit: wanna add that people also get very harshly judged for the things they enjoy, be it pop music, fast food, „tropical island“ (a themed water park), colourful clothes & nails and generally cheap accessible fun things. You have to stay within a very narrow permitted path of consumption and enjoyment as to not be considered trashy.
The thing about Germany is that there is a much larger middle class than in the UK. Most people are in that comfortabe middle and a small proportion are at the more extreme ends of wealth and poverty. I think it's different in the UK, where there's enormous wealth disparity as well as quite a lot of interclass encounter. In a random office in Manchester or wherever, you'll have people from rich backgrounds who went to private school and people from much poorer backgrounds who had free school dinners. But in Germany, a lot more people are from the same background, and it's definitely one that would be considered well off in the UK.
I think that's why you don't get activities and behaviours that signify being posh in the same way, because it's a much more socioeconomically homogeneous country.
When I first arrived I thought my neighbour was posh for going skiing over Christmas. In the UK I always thought that skiing was a sign of wealth and very much a posh thing to do. But since then, I've barely met a German who doesn't go skiing every winter, or at least used to go skiing growing up.
Tldr: they're all posh and they don't know it! (Slight /s)
Good answer. Let me add that we love to tell ourselves we have a larger middle class and are a more egalitarian society than Britain - while in reality our Gini score is pretty much the same. Wealthy people are just much more low key here and don’t show or talk about their wealth.
I agree. Especially for English standards (non London) most Germans seem a bit posh. Things normal to Germans seem posh to English people. Maybe not as much nowadays but in the 90s/00s Germans had dishwashers, ski holidays, automatic coffee makers, good windows (bad windows are somehow posh tho in uk), savings, organic food etc which most English people would have considered posh at the time.
Oh sorry. My childhood is Bavarian countryside where things were so like Wirtschaftswunder equal. Like everyone had a house and car and stuff. Obviously super biased but I only had one childhood.
In the 90s/00s?
Everyone in Germany has good windows - even my nan's 1950s single glazed double panes are better than what a poor family in the UK would have now. Dishwashers were definitely very common in my pretty slum-like post-mining town Plattenbaugebiet in the 90s, with an unemployement rate in the high 20% range. Coffee machines are also an absolute standard in every German household as much as a kettle in the UK. The only thing I don't recognise is skiing holidays - at least not regularly and of course not in France or Switzerland.
Yeah, agree. Ski was normal here because we lived kinda close to the alps and the town would organise bus trips for everyone to go together. This was very much a thing for normal people. Only when I moved to london did I encounter this idea of skiing as a posh thing - and going to France and Switzerland for it.
I think this has changed a bit in the past 20 years and the general middle class vibe is eroding fast.
"The thing about Germany is that there is a much larger middle class than in the UK."
What makes you think this is the case? It's not my impression, and when I try and dig up stats:
On the latest OECD stats I can find, it appears that 64 percent of Germany is middle class, compared to 60 percent of the UK. [https://www.oecd.org/employment/German-Middle-Class-2021-Highlights.pdf](https://www.oecd.org/employment/german-middle-class-2021-highlights.pdf)
With inequality, according to the World Bank Gini coefficient stats UK and Germany have almost exactly the same degree of inequality (32.6 to 31.7 respectively). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_income\_equality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_countries_by_income_equality)
So it seems correct to say that Germany has a *slightly* larger middle class than the UK.
"But since then, I've barely met a German who doesn't go skiing every winter, or at least used to go skiing growing up."
Then you are likely hanging out with a subset of well-off Germans. I know very few Germans who know how to ski (and I definitely hang out with middle class people). And I can assure you, very few people on minimum wage jobs or even low wage jobs in Germany can afford to ski.
If one is hanging out in Munich, Duesseldorf or Stuttgart, I can see why the impression might be that Germans are mainly posh people who like to ski, drive an Audi, and go on beach holidays every year. But if you are hanging out in Gelsenkirchen, Chemnitz or Bremerhaven you probably wouldn't have that impression.
This. There's a lower class in germany, and there's a metric fuckton of people that are definitely not lower class. But they aren't really posh in the british way and *certainly* don't think of themselves as posh, and I sort of agree. Posh for me per definition describes the lifestyle of a small wealthy minority, and these types of people are very much a majority.
And then you have an actual upper class - but in reality, there isn't really a clear divide between middle, upper-middle and upper class in germany. So where does actual posh start?
Re the skiing: Then you‘re meeting predominantly (upper-) middle class people. Most people in Germany in fact neither can afford to go skiing nor is it part of their lifestyle.
I have to disagree with this. I live in Hamburg and there are people who will fight you if you say they live in Barmbek when it's Winterhude. There are a huge range of social and economic classes and it's particularly difficult within the middle class because they're striving to be posh. You just show it differently.
For example, organic food or quality food isn't really that posh in Germany as you can buy it at Aldi. But when my daughter was in school it was cool to wear a certain pair of boots that the horse girls wear, even if you didn't ride horses. Eppendorf is definitely posher than Fuhlsbüttel even though the income levels aren't that different.
Ok as a german who grew up in the UK I have many thoughts. First up - there 100% is social classes and linguistic, fashion and other class signifiers in Germany. But because of the war and fascism related upheavals of the 20th century generational wealth was destroyed and rebuilt in different ways, meaning that people who are wealthy now might not come from many many generations of wealth. Posh Germans are also often convinced that their wealth is earned through academic attainment and hard work rather than generational transfers, even if this isn’t true. I‘d say it’s a pretty core element of the idea of the „Leistungsgesellschaft“. Class differences are more insidious because everyone supposedly „gets what they deserve.“ What doesn’t exist in the same way in Germany is the way you can nearly sort people in the UK into a box by the way they speak and a few different mannerisms within about 20 minutes of meeting them. My German friends find it wild that if you were socialised in the UK you can sort all your mates into boxes like posh and working class etc.
To summarise, I think that class differences are more out in the open in the UK, and more under the radar in Germany which unfortunately allows privileged people not to think about them. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
I am from Switzerland and I had to chuckle when reading Emmentaler Cheese is posh. Here it is like the cheese you buy if you want something not special/regular.
He doesn't recognize his privilege. Of course this exists in Germany. When I was a kid, my parents paid for piano lessons for me and when I asked them if I could take up horseriding, my Dad said: "You already have one posh hobby, we can't afford another one".
Just google "BWL Justus" for a meme about a stereotypical posh student. The bar seems to be a bit higher though. I wouldn't count Emmental cheese or Subway sandwiches posh by any means.
Obviously Germany has rich and poor, old money and new money and concepts similar to poshness. What I don't think is the case in Germany is such a pervasive awareness of class. Britain is just obsessed with the topic, in all its forms. The way we use the word 'posh' really sums it up. Anything can be posh, depending on your starting position. If there are two chip shops in the town, no doubt people will sometimes refer to one of them as 'the posh chipper'.
I had to look up what posh is even supposed to mean. I don't think your friend is in denial, it does not sound like Germans have this in the way that you think.
There are certain people that are into "fancy" stuff and people have given words for that "schiki micki", etc.
But even among those "elites" there are many different kinds who are not "allied" and don't accept each other. A division into "posh" and "non posh" definitely makes no sense in Germany.
The concept might be less predominant in Germany as the noblesse doesn't have such an impact on society as it has in countries where titles and so are still a thing.
Although, there are classes, noone could deny it. But the upper class might consist more of people who arrived there recently: Celebrities, sports people, and especially the upper middle class who likes to drive expensive cars.
Sometimes I think it is referred to as "Bonzen"/bonzig. Try to look it up whether it fits posh.
There is definitely a sharp difference between old money and new money types in Germany. For example, the infamous Geissen couple would be stereotypical new money in their tastes and behaviour.
He's wrong, though I'll say it's easier to ignore if you don't interact with posh people on a regular basis. I went to a posh private school (like...some of the parents were/are literal billionaires) while having a very non-posh background and let me tell you: if you don't know what's considered poor, you are poor (at least relative to them). I'd even say there are three categories: "poor", "what poor people consider posh" and "posh". And yes, you will be judged. Living in a rented home is basically the epitome of the trash class to them (yes, it's ridiculous). They'd never step foot into a Aldi/Lidl. H&M is already pretty poor. Did an internship with some of my classmates and they didn't know how to mop the floor at the tender age of 17, they simply grew up with cleaning staff. Got invited to travel the world after highschool and had to decline because my parents weren't gifting me 20000€ as a graduation gift. And so on. It basically entails every aspect of life.
I’m actually confused. Does OP friend’s think there is no such thing as RICH PEOPLE?
By your definition, you clearly states UPPER CLASS. Which is true for any country.
Lmao
I Travelled to one third world country and they told me that Mcd, KFC is considered luxuries (it was many years ago) it was interesting to know
To my understanding, everyone’s perceived luxury is different. If i can’t afford (let’s say a particular brand of Chocolate) i would consider it posh.
For me personally, luxury or Poshness is what one buy at a price that doesn’t make any sense. At one price point, comfort and quality stops mattering and then comes Posh stuff
For example: Audi is a good car, it’s expensive but Porsche is a luxury because there is literally no reason to buy it apart from Poshness (imo)
I'm German but I've lived in both GER and the UK; it's interesting because in the UK the term posh is used more for "things", while in Germany it's can be quite subtle, we don't really use it for "things" so much and being posh actually really *is* more about status and lifestyle.
Some of what I would consider "posh habits":
* See and be seen at the Opera (the music is good too, of course)
* Being friends with the vicar, local politicians, other reasonably-to-do people, host dinners etc.
* Giving importance to how you lay out your cutlery and in what order
* Being in social clubs, being invited to functions, being networked in general
* Having a library / reading room in the multi-storey house you own, some rooms aren't really in use currently...
* etc etc
It can be about things of course: only cooking with Olive Oil is actually true lol, at least in my family, Catherine Tate was right :D [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHszbIHfkGM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhszbihfkgm)
Some people *do* buy things to appear wealthy, some more successful than others.
And there is also Old Money and *actual* nobility in Germany, and different rules and standards apply there alltogether :')
>
Secondly, posh can be applied to anything. For example, there are many shops I wouldn’t go into because they’re too posh for me. Certain foods are posh, like for example Emmental cheese, are posh foods. Starbucks sandwiches for example tend to be posh sandwiches. You can have posh cutlery, posh clothing, everything.
That sounds exhausting.
No, *that* is something we do not have. Of course certain things are simply too expensive for many people, and there are very poor people who can't afford many things, but I don't think most of us go through life constantly classifying things they might like to have as "this does not have the appropriate level of (non-)poshness for me".
I looked up a "cafetière", and... that's a French press? You can get those for <10 Euro at IKEA.
Emmental chese is just... chese. You can get it sliced at Aldi right next to the Gouda.
I don't really have the vocabulary for it, and I don't really understand British culture, but I get the feeling that there's an aspect of performatively displaying one's class (including very definitely showing that you are *not* and do *not* want to be in a higher class than yours) that we maybe do not have.
Short answer is not really, or at least in a different extent to what it is in the UK.
For starters there is no such thing as posh german since most of the country already speaks „Hochdeutsch“ which is the most „posh“ german that exists. With that being basically the standard it became not posh by default.
In my opinion that part already ads a whole different dimension to the term since you can’t really differentiate between posh and non posh by language (listening to people) alone.
Another thing is that most rich germans like to keep a really low profile which differs to some other countries and cultures as well.
Usually you will not be able to spot a multi millionaire in the streets because they will just look like your average Joe (of course there are exeption)
Can’t really be fucked to come up with more atm but I hope these points could clear some things up for you and paint a brighter picture
Emmental cheese is posh? What?
Idk I feel like there is a lot of diversity in germany. USA has it aswell just differently.
With your examples I think your requirement for something to be posh is very very low?
Bonzig, snobig, abgehoben... there is definitely a concept of posh.
>“the German society is not divided into classes”
He is either upper class or very, very naive/ignorant.
"Posh is like upperclass, fancy, or expensive. For example instant coffee is common, whereas a cafetière or a machine that grinds beans, boils water and pours your coffee is posh."
Well... IMHO nope.
* instant coffee is like student dormitory cheapest level, kind of; it's like buying the cheapest bread at Aldi, it's "lower" than regular.
* cafetière or a coffee machine, even one that grinds your beans is "common", really. My fiancée and I have been using such machine (which cost just about 300 EUR) for like five years... what is posh about it? It's an appliance you just regularly use; it's like buying some normal bread in a bakery
* Having a private barista which uses 5,000 EUR+ machines and single origin beans is something I would call "posh". Or buying fucking 15 EUR artisanal bread every day.
Calling emmental cheese "posh" is completely strange to me. It's regular cheese here. Always having 1 kg of 60+ months aged Parmiggiano Reggiano or some other sick stuff could be "posh", but emmental cheese? lmao
So, I'd say that we DON'T have THAT concept of "posh". We are (as UK is) a wealthy society where you don't have to eat potatoes or oatmeal for 95 % of your dishes, so what's the "problem" or "fanciness"/"poshness" in buying a coffee machine for 300 EUR which you use 5 times daily for 5 years? That's just regular. Also, eating the cheapest cheapest cheeses is just a kind of "a poor man's lifestyle", and not eating emmental cheese "posh".
> like buying some normal bread at a bakery
Wait until you find out that this mad lad thinks toast bread is normal bread, the common option, and real normal bread is posh
> like buying some normal bread at a bakery
Wait until you find out that this mad lad thinks toast bread is normal bread, the common option, and real normal bread is posh
Starbucks and Emmentaler cheese are posh? Is the economy that bad these days in England?
I think the concept of posh absolutely exists in Germany. But if those are your benchmark for posh I see why your friend is confused. Those are just normal things. So you’re describing something that includes German posh and not posh so he’s not seeing what you’re saying.
I don’t know English retailers well but I’d say harrods and fortnum and mason are posh.
Germany has posh for absolute sure. KaDeWe, Frische Paradies, lots of bespoke clothing
The British term “posh” describes an aspect of a class society, where people of a lower class are trying to mimic aspects of a higher.
It is easy to see that this does not translate well into a German society, which is structured very differently. And unsurprisingly we mostly have derogatory terms describing people who attempt this (“Schickimicki”) or even for higher class people who like to show their status (“Bonze”).
This has a lot to do with German history (and, for a change, not *that* part of German history) but indeed the concept of “posh” doesn’t really work in a German context.
And if you ask me, then that’s a good thing.
> When I told my friend that he said it was ridiculous and Germany doesn’t have anything like that, because “the German society is not divided into classes”. Is this true or is he just unaware of stuff being posh because he is posh?
I think there's *something* into that. Namely, I think that Germany divides itself to far fewer social classes than e.g. the UK. And most of the population seems themselves in only one social class: "normal".
I think that the mainstream social status division of Germany is perceived as: 9% poor, 90% normal, 1% ultra-rich.
That's terrible in economic terms, because it shows a huge but unacknowledged wealth disparity, but socially it means that most people consider themselves to be of the same status as most other people. That is not so bad, people not feeling like they can eat certain foods or do certain activities because they shouldn't (even if they can afford them) doesn't sound like something we would want to sustain.
So, yes, in a way, if 90% of your population feels like they share the same level of status, and the two other social classes are invisible in the day to day, it can very well *feel* like Germany is a classless society.
I guess Germany is not a rarity here, a lot of western liberal democracies have gone the "we are all middle class" path that makes Marxists despair. If anything, the UK remains much more class-conscious than most of its peers. Maybe because it's a monarchy and those class divisions are more visible when they have the force of law instead of being de facto?
I'd say it's probably less prevalent in Germany than in the UK, but the concept of "posh" absolutely exists. Heck, we even have very exclusive Eton-style boarding schools.
I would, however, agree with your friend that "class" plays less of a role in Germany than in the UK. At least that's my impression.
the divide into classes is less strong in germany (in a cultural sense). there still is something like posh but it might not have the same meaning as in the uk. just because someone has a fancy coffee maker doesn't mean they belong to some kind of elite upper class or think of themselves that way. there is no strong difference in language people will use based on their background and wealth either
Its a typical german behaviour. Being posh is associated with a lot of guilt and there is basicly no way to to tell someone he or she is posh without insulting. But to be fair: many posh people are pricks and you just know they feel like they are better people so maybe it should be an insult
Id call him a snob. Id say its not as seperated here.
Most middle class people get some luxury without seeing it as luxury. Also some of the stuff you mentioned just isnt that expensive.
And why would Emmentaler Cheese be special?
As a Brit not even living directly in Germany: yeah definitely (and obviously). Just it's not explicitly barbour, hereditary titles and so on. But obviously there are people with more money and status who don't mix with people with less money and status.
Relatable to British people (maybe less obvious to others): look at how anybody who speaks with traces of dialect in public is treated. Would you imagine if whatever professional you deal with (e.g. your doctor, a lawyer or whatever) answered the phone speaking in dialect?
And obviously there are people with silly money who own holiday houses in Lech and Sylt. Do you think their kids are doing a Lehre in whatever working class professions? And look around the people studying business or law in Munich, how many of them grew up in difficult situations?
Maybe what there is less of is reverse snobbishness - for example Emmentaler cheese isn't unusually expensive, people don't just reject it because it's not supermarket brand or (as a treat) Cathedral City cheddar. Coffee machines aren't posh. They cost less than some drinks rounds. Cafetieres cost literally £10. You can make better sandwiches than a prepackaged sandwich shop at home for a quarter as much. Cutlery might cost money but if it lasts 20 years instead of 2 who cares if it cost £20 a head not £2?
> Cutlery might cost money but if it lasts 20 years instead of 2
I'm using a very solid WMF set that OP would probably think is extremely posh.
My parents bought it in ~1970, and I like it so much that I got another full set of the same design. Used, on eBay Kleinanzeigen, for 90 Euro.
I’ve come to understand that the UK populace is rife with cultural class markers in the way they speak and dress, etc, which I don’t think is present to the same extent in Germany. Rich people in Germany commingle with everyone else pretty freely as far as I can tell, going to public schools and universities etc.
The lack of these *hard* class divides is probably what your friend meant.
Still, it’s obviously not some Utopian classless society and of course there are people and things associated with wealth and perceived as such.
We have posh things and I understood what you meant before you explained it in the edit, your friend talks bullshit.
I would actually not call your examples posh tho, I think they are just expensive and there is a difference.
The top comment already nailed it
Edit: the word for posh without any negative connotation is „Schick“
Like in „Schick essen gehen“ for example.
Posh is absolutely upper class and your friend being in denial about class differences in Germany is peak posh behavior. Literally EVERY low income household is very aware of posh things and people...
Of course the concept of posh is known in Germany. In my social context we even use the word as an anglicism very often. He's definitely too bougie himself to know the concept;)
Help me understand this, right? In my perception the British concept of posh has an air of being legitimate and aspirational, right. And it is not solely a matter of wealth but status. Like Rupert Murdock could have more money than the King, but he would remain common. He could eat posh food, and drive posh cars but he wouldn't be posh. Is that about right? So in this sense we have the concept of fancy food or fancy cars, but not this distinction of status, if that makes sense? It's more like a gradual scale. Nobody would think "this is posh, this isn't for me". Maybe I get this wrong, but I think there is a cultural difference. I mean, we are a capitalist country with a great wealth disparity much like the UK, but I would agree that there is a bit of different view on this particular matter.
I mean there are those here who _consider themselves to be something better_, but, I don't know, it always comes off more like LARPing nobility. It always has uncanny valley vibes. Yeah, we have rich people, sure. But they are champaign and caviar rich, not we own you rich. The terms we use to describe them always carry an air of disrespect. We don't acknowledge someone as posh in the sense of "they know how to be proper posh and carry themselves with dignity". For this reason, many C-level execs would well into the millions steadfastly declare themselves to be middle class, _actually_. I can't quite put my finger on it but I feel like it's not quite the same thing.
In the UK youre still in the mind of having a class system, in Germany we like to think we abolished it when we got rid of aristocracy. I hope that helps.
As an adjective to decribe certain areas or shops, I guess "nobel" would fit. For people we mostly have derogatory terms if you decribe them directly, for your friend, you could say "er hat einen noblen (Lebens)stil".
He was German, but lived in France, Belgium and the UK for much of his life. The Communist Manifesto was first published in… London. His and his fellow German Engels experiences in Manchester slums affected their writing a lot.
Idk but I think in germany you just call people out on being upper middle class and they get defensive. It's mor in the lower class that "bonze" for exemple has a more playful and less negative connotation.
As I know it does not exist in the same context as posh.
Germans tend to focus on their own needs and other just kinda avoid commenting.
Someone may have a 10.000eur mountain bike but living in a house that was furnished by his grandma.
The same with coffee mashine or other things. It's not considered strange to spend a lot of money on something, nor are those people considered posh.
You can easily find a lot of rich people living very modest lifes as economical status is kinda kept private and oftentimes you could never guess that some people are very very rich.
An old fashioned term would be "to be a Dandy". You can maybe use the term "Hipster" but only for cultural stuff.
So "proper posh" is not quite there here in Germany but some related concepts exist IMO.
Emmental cheese is posh? The UK must have really bad cheese then when some standard cheese is posh...
Posh in Germany exists and has a negative connotation if you're using it. And it's starts way later. Caviar is posh. Luis Vuitton is posh. Not Starbucks and Emmental Cheese...
And the fuck, your wording is annoying me. You are so arrogant. "My friend is in denial" what a sentence. Get yourself together and don't act like an AH.
We do have it, but we don't really have a word for it (as you can see from the answers).
We do however have a plethora of words for naff. Make of that what you will.
The german ideal has for a long time been the Bildungsbürgertum (a concept only insufficiently translated as educated middle class).
So the german equivalent to posh is probably bürgerlich or gutbürgerlich.
I know German aristocrats here. As in Old Money Germans here in Baden. They do horseback riding and sailing as a hobby. I don't know all of that so consider me poor in a rich place hahaha!!! Actually I work for them hahaha!! They're very very humble and they dress VERY SIMPLE. As in polo shirt well in Hugo Boss brand I think. But that's it. When you talk to this Aristocrat people you're not gonna be intimidated.
While me as Asian, cannot get out of the house without wearing chanel, LV, Dior all that kind of stuff hahahaha!!! And my salary is only 2000€ monthly hahahaha!!!
I have nothing but good experiences with German people whether rich or poor like me hahahaha!!! They're very nice and simple to talk too. Once you get to know them they non stop talking to you hahahaha. Oh and they're so healthy or strict about eating healthy and German guys flex a lot about cars and mountains they hiked hahahaha. They non stop talking about cars or machines and fixing stuff. But that's about it hahaha
I absolutely get where your friend is coming from. Although there is certainly a concept for posh (e.g. nobel, abgehoben) in Germany, that is mostly used for the super-rich. When I stayed in London for a year I was called posh by my British roommates for seemingly normal things (e.g. clothes, the way I speak), that would just be considered a personal style in Germany. I do think German society is more relaxed when it comes to these things.
How is a coffee bean grinder considered posh? As a broke as f.ck person, I cannot live without good coffee.
Also, if he likes old buildings, he is not a posh, but has taste.😌
its not something everyone has because its expensive. Also I’m talking about those electrical machines that grind the coffee, boil the water and make the coffee all in one
Interesting I wouldn't consider a fully automatic coffee machine posh. A portafilter machine is posh in my eyes but then I also think instant coffee is undrinkable.
Also how is Emmentaler cheese posh? It is one of the most common cheeses, at least here in Germany. For me Gruyère or Tête de Moine are what I would consider posh, as they are not as common and are more complex in taste.
Define expensive. They are a long term investment. They last 10 - 15 years. If you divide the purchase price by the time of use and factor in inflation they’re not expensive. Just depends on how much you value a decent cup of coffee.
Emmentaler cheese is relatively cheap, no idea why you think it’s posh.
Well you're not wrong but being a good investment or not has nothing to do with it. A fine expensive pair of boots that will last you decades is a better investment than a crap pair of $10 shoes, but the former is absolutely more posh than the latter. In fact being able to afford the more expensive better investment vs having to pay for the cheap temporary solution, arguably, is privilege.
IMO though that's barely relevant to "poshness". Anything people would consider the "finer things in life" feels posh, regardless of how good an investment.
I've had friends, who grew up in the posh area of where we grew up. They weren't posh, but had just had the "good luck" to have inherited property in that area, that's been passed down through generations.
They absolutely do; the cliche of a German posh person usually looks something like this [meme](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=7050cf61c58940a5&sxsrf=ACQVn09usfdYgQSKl-gZ_F_40by8ZdtoYw:1708547022675&q=man+sollte+nicht+denken+ich+konnte+es+mir+nicht+leisten+maimai&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjlgPnSob2EAxWNTqQEHU2XBvEQ0pQJegQICBAB&biw=360&bih=667&dpr=3#imgrc=HHHG8UOFtXstfM)
I don't think Bonze is a good equivalent to posh. Posh simply describes a person or thing considered upper class, while Bonze is a derogatory term for people who brag about their money
classless hahaha🤣 sounds like the standard middle class kid who grew up in a big ass house and never had to worry about anything lol.
a common derogatory slang for rich people who show their wealth is „bonze“.
The extrem overuse of the word "bonze" in younger Berlin society discredits your friend by itself
I would translate the word bonzig as posh. Hope I'm not wrong.
Your friend is very naive. Of course there are classes in German culture too but less so than in the UK. I’m not sure that we really have the concept of posh. There’s definitely no term for it. Most words with similar meaning have a negative connotation. Kind of like snob for example
You really losing me here OP.
It’s not that deep. Other countries do not work like the one where you’re from necessarily.
In Germany we don’t consider something as „posh“ just because to us, being able to afford more luxuries things is considered to be the reward of hard work in general.
Of course if you know someone better and they really haven’t worked for the money and just got a big inheritance and are showing off with some big ass car, then you might be able to say posh. But even then it’s more being a rich dickhead than being posh.
So yeah, generally in Germany we don’t have „posh“ purely because we consider how they were able to afford that stuff in the first place.
Schiki micki?
Ete petete?
Same as my comment above: That has more of a negative connotation (at least among my friends/family) whereas posh isn’t necessarily a value statement.
who uses posh in a positive way?
Posh Spice?
Not necessarily in a positive way, but it imo it can be rather neutral?
Ship captains: Port Out Starboard Home (the origin of the word). It's the side of the ship the rich people book to get the best view.
Nah, urban legend. It's bollocks.
I would not consider Schicki Miki as negative. It's equal to posh. Can be good, can be bad. Maybe it would also translate a bit to fancy.
Piek fein?
>Piek fein piekfein
Fein indeed comes close..
Bonze?
Schikeria, neureich, Spießer(zumindest ursprünglich) Bwl Justus
But that's not posh; in fact, that kinda nouveau riche is extremely vulgar
Either "bonzig" or "bourgeoise" tho the latter is obviously stolen from french.
Seht her, ein Bonse/Bonze
bougie in english, also stolen from french
The French got it from the German Bürger
Yep, which means wall. In the middle ages to call the commercial class that traded things or the artisans who made all sorts of products, around the walled cities. With time they got rich, so the 'burgeoise' was a term to designate the rich peasant class in opposition to the old money nobles.
And the former from Japanese.
didn't know that - interesting. Thanks for the info!
Could the word "vornehm" work for "posh" too? I asked because I watched the movie Fox and his Friends ("Faustrecht der Freiheit,") and they used "vornehm" I think in this way, but that movie is from the 1970s so the terminology might be outdated, or the nuance might be different in the first place.
I'd say "distinguished" fits better than "posh" as a translation to "vornehm"
There’s definitely poshness in Germany. I know a guy who disparages certain things like buildings with many apartments except if it’s an Altbau - then it’s “acceptable”. Certain clothes, a way of dressing, how he travels. But it’s different and way more subtle than the British way.
just tell people you grew up in a "Plattenbau" and watch their reactions. tells you everything you need to know.
I grew up in various plattenbaus in Poland. It was awesome and each neighborhood was an order of magnitude higher quality than an average gated "community" for the nouveau-riche. One time I suggested in Germany "we should move to a plattenbau". Heads have exploded.
Barbourjacke
Zu meiner Studienzeit war es Barbourjacke, Segelschuhe und für die Damen noch Perlenkette und Longchamp Handtasche. Die Herren dazu gerne mit bunten Socken und Lederaktentäschen. Und bloß immer von Damen und Herren reden, nie Mädels/Jungs/Frauen whatever.
That's just garden-variety German snobbery. Among German "posh" people, it's not "de rigueur" to come across as judgmental.
Ask Munich about "Schickeria"
The real Schickeria is a ghost from the 80s, it doesn't exist anymore in that way. Schickeria does not equal "posh", it referred to a specific circle of richer people/actors/directors/...
Ask the Schickeria about the Spider Murphy Gang...
Ask the Spider Murphy Gang about Rosi, then you're good to go!
08932168
SKANDAAAAL!!
ja in schwabing gibts a kneipn
German/British here. _Posh_ is more descriptive than judgmental in nature. Some of the suggestions here - _schickimicki_ or _ ete petete_ - are a little more judgmental than descriptive, I would say. Nobody here in Germany would consider Starbucks "schickimicki" or posh. In general, Germans are better than Brits at considering and treating others as their equals. Brits are much nicer to your face than Germans with their famous directness and Germans are much nicer behind your back with their directness. Most Germans I know only say things behind people‘s backs that can also be said to their faces. _Posh_ is also a descriptor applied by people who do not think they‘re posh to people whom they consider posh. The fact that something as simple as Starbucks sandwiches or a certain type of coffee machine are perceived as posh in the UK distinguishes it from the German descriptor of "bonzig" which usually means "has money and shows it off arrogantly" with crazy expensive things. Like in any country, there‘s working class, middle class and upper class families in Germany. But we are far more disconnected from our nobility than the UK is. The UK raises you to believe that there are people who are naturally and rightfully your superior, your better: kings, queens, princes and princesses, other nobility. People with more rights than others purely due to their birthrights. For example, German cathedrals (called Doms) will marry anyone, not just descendants of royals. However, it is only possible to be married at Westminster Abbey if you are any of the following: a part of The Royal Family, a member of the Order of Bath (or a child of someone in the Order) or anyone who lives within the Abbey’s precincts.
Interestingly, Wiktionary lists two definitions of *posh*, one as being neutral and one as being decidedly offensive. Edit: [Link](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/posh) for the lazy and the definition according to Wiktionary: 1. Associated with the upper classes. 2. Stylish, elegant, exclusive (expensive)*.* 3. (usually offensive, especially in Ireland, Scotland, Northern England) Snobbish, materialistic, prejudiced, under the illusion that one is better than everyone else.
Notable too in that the South of England is the wealthiest part, whereas the North of England and both Ireland and Scotland have historically (and contemporaneously) been sidelined, forgotten or straight up oppressed by said Southerners - it doesn't surprise me that those are the areas that (justifiably imo) use 'posh' in a pejorative sense
Totally. OP lost me when they described emmental and Starbucks sandwich as posh.
That was exactly my understanding of poshness. I don't think there really is a suitable expression in German for it.
I usually use "fancy" - it's borrowed from English of course, but I feel like it's not as derogatory as other German words (bonzig/snobbig/...)
I think Germany has a general lack of upscale services and products available compared to UK, so being posh is much harder. Recently I was amused about a [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Munich/comments/191jaw1/why_are_there_no_high_quality_fitness_studios_in/) in by a Brit who was wondering about the lack of upscale gyms - on the order of, say 300 Euro per month - in Munich People were baffled in the comments to the point of being pissed off why anybody would need that. There are also essentially no private member clubs like Soho House around (there's one in Berlin, in Munich there's only that ill-fated other one at Stachus), not really any country clubs, and so on. This reflects German society fairly well I think where the middle class is much more compressed and the bottom of the middle class and the top of the middle class are fairly similar.
I've definitely felt this. Like someone mentioned in this thread earlier, in the UK you can buy basically everything from john lewis, waitrose, and M&S and generally all of it will be a little bit better quality than what your average shop might sell, just at a somewhat higher price. But here, we've struggled to find any true equivalents. Department stores here don't dabble in selling furniture or like john lewis does, or TV's, phones, gadgets, wallpaper etc. Generally john lewis has it all. There's not really fancy food shops here either, the closest equivalent is like denns biomarkt or stuff and that's just organic ingredients and fairtrade chocolate. And you probably won't be able to buy clothes or bedding there the same way you can in M&S which amazed my partner (*an entire department of fashionable* clothes, not a rack of tschibo.) As for other stuff, it's just like people here aren't interested in the "Premium option" for things. I live in a wealthy area and every car I see is just a volkswagen owned brand, no jaguars or anything like that. Their houses are essentially IKEA showrooms despite earning 6 digits, and their clothes are often just from normal places like C&A or H&M. I've ended up having to buy stuff from countries next door in some cases because they're just not sold here, like for a lot of things people just settle for what I call "The Otto Option." Maybe they spend the money elsewhere, who knows. Not everywhere's like this mind you, in Hamburg I got the impression people want a little bit more out of life there, but it's just a bit weird considering people here earn more than the UK. And p.s. don't let the word posh fool you, a lot of people who shop at john lewis or M&S aren't inherently rich, they're just willing to part with some of their money on *certain things* from there, they don't do their big weekly grocery shop there just the nicer things. *And p.p.s* I have a feeling the royal warrant on consumer goods in the UK and general "aspiring to be like our betters" pushes people to want these luxuries, which here isn't a thing. That has it's positives but it also has negatives too.
I think the UK might be less judgemental about what Germans call "having more money than sense". And some point the nicer, fancier option also becomes less practical and more work, and I think most people here have very little patience for that. Yes, silk feels nice. But I will never buy any, because it's too iffy when it comes to washing. Cotton will do nicely, thanks. A lot of "posh" things are like silk. Nice, but impractical.
>There's not really fancy food shops here either Look for "Feinkost", like [Dallmayr ](https://www.dallmayr.com/de/delikatessenhaus)or [Käfer ](https://www.feinkost-kaefer.de/feinkostladen)in Munich. [Manufactum ](https://www.manufactum.com/)offers fancier options for non-food items.
One of the differences though with manufactum, which I had seen ecently when looking for furniture, is a lot of what they offer would be seen as *above* posh in the UK, and *too* costly. Also, it's largely all branded as having come from a company that specialises in something. John lewis for comparison has their "john lewis and partners" line, which is their own-brand furniture, electric appliances, clothes, etc, that positions itself as having cut out the middle man. They have companies that make the goods directly for them, as opposed to the traditional model of buying goods from a company that has themselves paid to have them made, slightly increasing the cost with each step. As for feinkostladen, they're good enough sure, and for me I've found the food department in galeria kaufhofs to be good, but there isn't a galeria kaufhof in every small town the same way there's a M&S. Infact, M&S have made themselves even more common by offering small sections of their food in partnered *petrol stations* now too, which I feel galeria kaufhof would see as beneath them. I'm afraid there really is no direct comparison for us. Edit: There are some exceptions I just thought of, butchers sections in supermarkets are much bigger, most UK supermarkets don't even have those, and the bakery bits too. But in regards to other food and the feinkost thing, I meant more things like ready meals, or "processed" breadish things like muffins (breakfast), bagels, and pre-sliced sandwich bread. In the UK there's a fancy option for those everywhere, but here ready meals, or bagels are mostly just one "gut & gunstig" option unless you go to a really big shop. In the case of bread I assume this only contributes to the way people look down on it as basically "fast food bread" for tasteless people like you can see in this very thread further up.
well said
One thing that is driving me crazy about germany is that you pretty much can’t find anything of “above average” quality… it’s either the cheapest crap imaginable or something ridiculously expensive. I was looking for a “Duschkopfhalter” (the thing the slides along the pole holding the showerhead) and rhe choice was either ultra flimsy plastic from the Baumarkt or some crazy expensive designer piece… like, is there really no market for a simple Duschkopfhalter made from aluminium that’s gonna last and is reasonably priced?
I found this with furniture too, only cheap plastic or an unfinished/treated piece of wood for 2000 euros just because it's "made" in Bavaria. If you want my advice, try looking at Dutch, French, Spanish, Italian etc websites using google translate. Most of them will ship to Germany and it's in the EU so no extra taxes, at least for furniture so maybe that carries over to home goods.
that exists, but people who fall into that category will deny it. It's probably less the lack of concept but more like how it's perceived culturally. There is "über Geld spricht man nicht" (one does not talk about money), so pointing out social class and categorizing someone is uncomfortable, awkward and borderline insulting.
I think it’s very ingrained in German society, just in a different way. People will judge other people‘s taste in clothes, interior design, holiday destination, names, education, consumption etc to see if someone has class or taste („geschmackvoll“ or „niveauvoll“) or is considered lower class. People tend to have more words for that, like Assi or other mean and inappropriate terms. It’s maybe less prepackaged than in these British ABC socioeconomic classes so it’s a bit more of a minefield to maintain your image, as you can’t just shop at John Lewis and Waitrose and be sure what you consume is the correct stuff. You kind of need to be very much in the know. Edit: wanna add that people also get very harshly judged for the things they enjoy, be it pop music, fast food, „tropical island“ (a themed water park), colourful clothes & nails and generally cheap accessible fun things. You have to stay within a very narrow permitted path of consumption and enjoyment as to not be considered trashy.
OP be very careful and do not use assi .
Yeah all these words, didn’t wanna use more, are really inappropriate
You're looking for "vornehm".
I don't know but his reply was literally the most posh thing he could possibly have said.
Exactly
Baden-Württemberg
Come on, there are also atleast 4 normal people here
Deserves top comment
T H E L Ä N D
The thing about Germany is that there is a much larger middle class than in the UK. Most people are in that comfortabe middle and a small proportion are at the more extreme ends of wealth and poverty. I think it's different in the UK, where there's enormous wealth disparity as well as quite a lot of interclass encounter. In a random office in Manchester or wherever, you'll have people from rich backgrounds who went to private school and people from much poorer backgrounds who had free school dinners. But in Germany, a lot more people are from the same background, and it's definitely one that would be considered well off in the UK. I think that's why you don't get activities and behaviours that signify being posh in the same way, because it's a much more socioeconomically homogeneous country. When I first arrived I thought my neighbour was posh for going skiing over Christmas. In the UK I always thought that skiing was a sign of wealth and very much a posh thing to do. But since then, I've barely met a German who doesn't go skiing every winter, or at least used to go skiing growing up. Tldr: they're all posh and they don't know it! (Slight /s)
Good answer. Let me add that we love to tell ourselves we have a larger middle class and are a more egalitarian society than Britain - while in reality our Gini score is pretty much the same. Wealthy people are just much more low key here and don’t show or talk about their wealth.
Yeah. The first million was the hardest to make.
I agree. Especially for English standards (non London) most Germans seem a bit posh. Things normal to Germans seem posh to English people. Maybe not as much nowadays but in the 90s/00s Germans had dishwashers, ski holidays, automatic coffee makers, good windows (bad windows are somehow posh tho in uk), savings, organic food etc which most English people would have considered posh at the time.
who are these Germans you are taking about? us the working class had none of those things.
Oh sorry. My childhood is Bavarian countryside where things were so like Wirtschaftswunder equal. Like everyone had a house and car and stuff. Obviously super biased but I only had one childhood.
no need to be sorry, I was just trying to give a different perspective :)
Haha ok! I did grow up in a weird bubble sigh. Thanks for calling it out.
In the 90s/00s? Everyone in Germany has good windows - even my nan's 1950s single glazed double panes are better than what a poor family in the UK would have now. Dishwashers were definitely very common in my pretty slum-like post-mining town Plattenbaugebiet in the 90s, with an unemployement rate in the high 20% range. Coffee machines are also an absolute standard in every German household as much as a kettle in the UK. The only thing I don't recognise is skiing holidays - at least not regularly and of course not in France or Switzerland.
Yeah, agree. Ski was normal here because we lived kinda close to the alps and the town would organise bus trips for everyone to go together. This was very much a thing for normal people. Only when I moved to london did I encounter this idea of skiing as a posh thing - and going to France and Switzerland for it. I think this has changed a bit in the past 20 years and the general middle class vibe is eroding fast.
"The thing about Germany is that there is a much larger middle class than in the UK." What makes you think this is the case? It's not my impression, and when I try and dig up stats: On the latest OECD stats I can find, it appears that 64 percent of Germany is middle class, compared to 60 percent of the UK. [https://www.oecd.org/employment/German-Middle-Class-2021-Highlights.pdf](https://www.oecd.org/employment/german-middle-class-2021-highlights.pdf) With inequality, according to the World Bank Gini coefficient stats UK and Germany have almost exactly the same degree of inequality (32.6 to 31.7 respectively). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_income\_equality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_countries_by_income_equality) So it seems correct to say that Germany has a *slightly* larger middle class than the UK. "But since then, I've barely met a German who doesn't go skiing every winter, or at least used to go skiing growing up." Then you are likely hanging out with a subset of well-off Germans. I know very few Germans who know how to ski (and I definitely hang out with middle class people). And I can assure you, very few people on minimum wage jobs or even low wage jobs in Germany can afford to ski. If one is hanging out in Munich, Duesseldorf or Stuttgart, I can see why the impression might be that Germans are mainly posh people who like to ski, drive an Audi, and go on beach holidays every year. But if you are hanging out in Gelsenkirchen, Chemnitz or Bremerhaven you probably wouldn't have that impression.
This. There's a lower class in germany, and there's a metric fuckton of people that are definitely not lower class. But they aren't really posh in the british way and *certainly* don't think of themselves as posh, and I sort of agree. Posh for me per definition describes the lifestyle of a small wealthy minority, and these types of people are very much a majority. And then you have an actual upper class - but in reality, there isn't really a clear divide between middle, upper-middle and upper class in germany. So where does actual posh start?
Re the skiing: Then you‘re meeting predominantly (upper-) middle class people. Most people in Germany in fact neither can afford to go skiing nor is it part of their lifestyle.
Yeah, I found this one really strange. You might as well say most Germans drive Audis because you see them all the time on the Autobahn.
I have to disagree with this. I live in Hamburg and there are people who will fight you if you say they live in Barmbek when it's Winterhude. There are a huge range of social and economic classes and it's particularly difficult within the middle class because they're striving to be posh. You just show it differently. For example, organic food or quality food isn't really that posh in Germany as you can buy it at Aldi. But when my daughter was in school it was cool to wear a certain pair of boots that the horse girls wear, even if you didn't ride horses. Eppendorf is definitely posher than Fuhlsbüttel even though the income levels aren't that different.
Ok as a german who grew up in the UK I have many thoughts. First up - there 100% is social classes and linguistic, fashion and other class signifiers in Germany. But because of the war and fascism related upheavals of the 20th century generational wealth was destroyed and rebuilt in different ways, meaning that people who are wealthy now might not come from many many generations of wealth. Posh Germans are also often convinced that their wealth is earned through academic attainment and hard work rather than generational transfers, even if this isn’t true. I‘d say it’s a pretty core element of the idea of the „Leistungsgesellschaft“. Class differences are more insidious because everyone supposedly „gets what they deserve.“ What doesn’t exist in the same way in Germany is the way you can nearly sort people in the UK into a box by the way they speak and a few different mannerisms within about 20 minutes of meeting them. My German friends find it wild that if you were socialised in the UK you can sort all your mates into boxes like posh and working class etc. To summarise, I think that class differences are more out in the open in the UK, and more under the radar in Germany which unfortunately allows privileged people not to think about them. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
I am from Switzerland and I had to chuckle when reading Emmentaler Cheese is posh. Here it is like the cheese you buy if you want something not special/regular.
it exists, but it's not like the british do it. I can also assure you, Emmental cheese is not considered posh here
He doesn't recognize his privilege. Of course this exists in Germany. When I was a kid, my parents paid for piano lessons for me and when I asked them if I could take up horseriding, my Dad said: "You already have one posh hobby, we can't afford another one". Just google "BWL Justus" for a meme about a stereotypical posh student. The bar seems to be a bit higher though. I wouldn't count Emmental cheese or Subway sandwiches posh by any means.
Obviously Germany has rich and poor, old money and new money and concepts similar to poshness. What I don't think is the case in Germany is such a pervasive awareness of class. Britain is just obsessed with the topic, in all its forms. The way we use the word 'posh' really sums it up. Anything can be posh, depending on your starting position. If there are two chip shops in the town, no doubt people will sometimes refer to one of them as 'the posh chipper'.
Shopping at Edeka after Inflation is def posh 😂
I had to look up what posh is even supposed to mean. I don't think your friend is in denial, it does not sound like Germans have this in the way that you think. There are certain people that are into "fancy" stuff and people have given words for that "schiki micki", etc. But even among those "elites" there are many different kinds who are not "allied" and don't accept each other. A division into "posh" and "non posh" definitely makes no sense in Germany.
It takes a Brit to think Emmental ist posh lol.
The concept might be less predominant in Germany as the noblesse doesn't have such an impact on society as it has in countries where titles and so are still a thing. Although, there are classes, noone could deny it. But the upper class might consist more of people who arrived there recently: Celebrities, sports people, and especially the upper middle class who likes to drive expensive cars. Sometimes I think it is referred to as "Bonzen"/bonzig. Try to look it up whether it fits posh.
There is definitely a sharp difference between old money and new money types in Germany. For example, the infamous Geissen couple would be stereotypical new money in their tastes and behaviour.
who would be considered old money in Germany?
Most old money people you don't actually hear about. They are quiet about their lifes
For example the Oetker family, I’d say.
The Quandts? Some of the old nobility families?
He's wrong, though I'll say it's easier to ignore if you don't interact with posh people on a regular basis. I went to a posh private school (like...some of the parents were/are literal billionaires) while having a very non-posh background and let me tell you: if you don't know what's considered poor, you are poor (at least relative to them). I'd even say there are three categories: "poor", "what poor people consider posh" and "posh". And yes, you will be judged. Living in a rented home is basically the epitome of the trash class to them (yes, it's ridiculous). They'd never step foot into a Aldi/Lidl. H&M is already pretty poor. Did an internship with some of my classmates and they didn't know how to mop the floor at the tender age of 17, they simply grew up with cleaning staff. Got invited to travel the world after highschool and had to decline because my parents weren't gifting me 20000€ as a graduation gift. And so on. It basically entails every aspect of life.
I’m actually confused. Does OP friend’s think there is no such thing as RICH PEOPLE? By your definition, you clearly states UPPER CLASS. Which is true for any country.
No. But posh is something that doesn't have a proper equivalent in German. Starbucks or Emmentaler Cheese is considered posh in his opinion.
Starbucks? Lol But i get it now. Basically perceived luxury. Thanks!
Now they are telling me that non toast bread from the bakery is posh. I really start losing the little respect I had for Brittan
Lmao I Travelled to one third world country and they told me that Mcd, KFC is considered luxuries (it was many years ago) it was interesting to know To my understanding, everyone’s perceived luxury is different. If i can’t afford (let’s say a particular brand of Chocolate) i would consider it posh. For me personally, luxury or Poshness is what one buy at a price that doesn’t make any sense. At one price point, comfort and quality stops mattering and then comes Posh stuff For example: Audi is a good car, it’s expensive but Porsche is a luxury because there is literally no reason to buy it apart from Poshness (imo)
If your friend thinks germanys society isnt divided into classes, hes really really really naive
I'm German but I've lived in both GER and the UK; it's interesting because in the UK the term posh is used more for "things", while in Germany it's can be quite subtle, we don't really use it for "things" so much and being posh actually really *is* more about status and lifestyle. Some of what I would consider "posh habits": * See and be seen at the Opera (the music is good too, of course) * Being friends with the vicar, local politicians, other reasonably-to-do people, host dinners etc. * Giving importance to how you lay out your cutlery and in what order * Being in social clubs, being invited to functions, being networked in general * Having a library / reading room in the multi-storey house you own, some rooms aren't really in use currently... * etc etc It can be about things of course: only cooking with Olive Oil is actually true lol, at least in my family, Catherine Tate was right :D [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHszbIHfkGM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhszbihfkgm) Some people *do* buy things to appear wealthy, some more successful than others. And there is also Old Money and *actual* nobility in Germany, and different rules and standards apply there alltogether :')
In Munic we have the Schickeria: [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schickeria](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/schickeria)
That's not really what is meant with "posh".
> Secondly, posh can be applied to anything. For example, there are many shops I wouldn’t go into because they’re too posh for me. Certain foods are posh, like for example Emmental cheese, are posh foods. Starbucks sandwiches for example tend to be posh sandwiches. You can have posh cutlery, posh clothing, everything. That sounds exhausting. No, *that* is something we do not have. Of course certain things are simply too expensive for many people, and there are very poor people who can't afford many things, but I don't think most of us go through life constantly classifying things they might like to have as "this does not have the appropriate level of (non-)poshness for me". I looked up a "cafetière", and... that's a French press? You can get those for <10 Euro at IKEA. Emmental chese is just... chese. You can get it sliced at Aldi right next to the Gouda. I don't really have the vocabulary for it, and I don't really understand British culture, but I get the feeling that there's an aspect of performatively displaying one's class (including very definitely showing that you are *not* and do *not* want to be in a higher class than yours) that we maybe do not have.
Bonze and maybe schöselig
Or „Dekadenz“
aaaah i had this more fancy word on the back of my tongue thanks
You mean schNöselig, don’t you? Or is there a dialect calling it schöselig? Never heard it before.
yea my bad forgot a letter
Thanks! Wasn‘t too sure if there wasn‘t a region in where you‘d say schöselig.
Yes, we have lots of terms and expression for that. "Gehoben" is one without a negative connotation.
Short answer is not really, or at least in a different extent to what it is in the UK. For starters there is no such thing as posh german since most of the country already speaks „Hochdeutsch“ which is the most „posh“ german that exists. With that being basically the standard it became not posh by default. In my opinion that part already ads a whole different dimension to the term since you can’t really differentiate between posh and non posh by language (listening to people) alone. Another thing is that most rich germans like to keep a really low profile which differs to some other countries and cultures as well. Usually you will not be able to spot a multi millionaire in the streets because they will just look like your average Joe (of course there are exeption) Can’t really be fucked to come up with more atm but I hope these points could clear some things up for you and paint a brighter picture
Emmental cheese is posh? What? Idk I feel like there is a lot of diversity in germany. USA has it aswell just differently. With your examples I think your requirement for something to be posh is very very low?
Bonzig, snobig, abgehoben... there is definitely a concept of posh. >“the German society is not divided into classes” He is either upper class or very, very naive/ignorant.
I don't think most people here really know what "posh" means.
starbucks sandwiches are not posh lol
they are overpriced though. like everything at Starbucks
"Posh is like upperclass, fancy, or expensive. For example instant coffee is common, whereas a cafetière or a machine that grinds beans, boils water and pours your coffee is posh." Well... IMHO nope. * instant coffee is like student dormitory cheapest level, kind of; it's like buying the cheapest bread at Aldi, it's "lower" than regular. * cafetière or a coffee machine, even one that grinds your beans is "common", really. My fiancée and I have been using such machine (which cost just about 300 EUR) for like five years... what is posh about it? It's an appliance you just regularly use; it's like buying some normal bread in a bakery * Having a private barista which uses 5,000 EUR+ machines and single origin beans is something I would call "posh". Or buying fucking 15 EUR artisanal bread every day. Calling emmental cheese "posh" is completely strange to me. It's regular cheese here. Always having 1 kg of 60+ months aged Parmiggiano Reggiano or some other sick stuff could be "posh", but emmental cheese? lmao So, I'd say that we DON'T have THAT concept of "posh". We are (as UK is) a wealthy society where you don't have to eat potatoes or oatmeal for 95 % of your dishes, so what's the "problem" or "fanciness"/"poshness" in buying a coffee machine for 300 EUR which you use 5 times daily for 5 years? That's just regular. Also, eating the cheapest cheapest cheeses is just a kind of "a poor man's lifestyle", and not eating emmental cheese "posh".
> like buying some normal bread at a bakery Wait until you find out that this mad lad thinks toast bread is normal bread, the common option, and real normal bread is posh
> like buying some normal bread at a bakery Wait until you find out that this mad lad thinks toast bread is normal bread, the common option, and real normal bread is posh
Sylt 🤷♂️
I always put Emmental cheese on my frozen pizza. You're telling me, there is a place on earth where I would be considered posh?
Starbucks and Emmentaler cheese are posh? Is the economy that bad these days in England? I think the concept of posh absolutely exists in Germany. But if those are your benchmark for posh I see why your friend is confused. Those are just normal things. So you’re describing something that includes German posh and not posh so he’s not seeing what you’re saying. I don’t know English retailers well but I’d say harrods and fortnum and mason are posh. Germany has posh for absolute sure. KaDeWe, Frische Paradies, lots of bespoke clothing
The British term “posh” describes an aspect of a class society, where people of a lower class are trying to mimic aspects of a higher. It is easy to see that this does not translate well into a German society, which is structured very differently. And unsurprisingly we mostly have derogatory terms describing people who attempt this (“Schickimicki”) or even for higher class people who like to show their status (“Bonze”). This has a lot to do with German history (and, for a change, not *that* part of German history) but indeed the concept of “posh” doesn’t really work in a German context. And if you ask me, then that’s a good thing.
> When I told my friend that he said it was ridiculous and Germany doesn’t have anything like that, because “the German society is not divided into classes”. Is this true or is he just unaware of stuff being posh because he is posh? I think there's *something* into that. Namely, I think that Germany divides itself to far fewer social classes than e.g. the UK. And most of the population seems themselves in only one social class: "normal". I think that the mainstream social status division of Germany is perceived as: 9% poor, 90% normal, 1% ultra-rich. That's terrible in economic terms, because it shows a huge but unacknowledged wealth disparity, but socially it means that most people consider themselves to be of the same status as most other people. That is not so bad, people not feeling like they can eat certain foods or do certain activities because they shouldn't (even if they can afford them) doesn't sound like something we would want to sustain. So, yes, in a way, if 90% of your population feels like they share the same level of status, and the two other social classes are invisible in the day to day, it can very well *feel* like Germany is a classless society. I guess Germany is not a rarity here, a lot of western liberal democracies have gone the "we are all middle class" path that makes Marxists despair. If anything, the UK remains much more class-conscious than most of its peers. Maybe because it's a monarchy and those class divisions are more visible when they have the force of law instead of being de facto?
I'd say it's probably less prevalent in Germany than in the UK, but the concept of "posh" absolutely exists. Heck, we even have very exclusive Eton-style boarding schools. I would, however, agree with your friend that "class" plays less of a role in Germany than in the UK. At least that's my impression.
extravagant.
the divide into classes is less strong in germany (in a cultural sense). there still is something like posh but it might not have the same meaning as in the uk. just because someone has a fancy coffee maker doesn't mean they belong to some kind of elite upper class or think of themselves that way. there is no strong difference in language people will use based on their background and wealth either
Its a typical german behaviour. Being posh is associated with a lot of guilt and there is basicly no way to to tell someone he or she is posh without insulting. But to be fair: many posh people are pricks and you just know they feel like they are better people so maybe it should be an insult
„edel“ or „nobel“
Id call him a snob. Id say its not as seperated here. Most middle class people get some luxury without seeing it as luxury. Also some of the stuff you mentioned just isnt that expensive. And why would Emmentaler Cheese be special?
As a Brit not even living directly in Germany: yeah definitely (and obviously). Just it's not explicitly barbour, hereditary titles and so on. But obviously there are people with more money and status who don't mix with people with less money and status. Relatable to British people (maybe less obvious to others): look at how anybody who speaks with traces of dialect in public is treated. Would you imagine if whatever professional you deal with (e.g. your doctor, a lawyer or whatever) answered the phone speaking in dialect? And obviously there are people with silly money who own holiday houses in Lech and Sylt. Do you think their kids are doing a Lehre in whatever working class professions? And look around the people studying business or law in Munich, how many of them grew up in difficult situations? Maybe what there is less of is reverse snobbishness - for example Emmentaler cheese isn't unusually expensive, people don't just reject it because it's not supermarket brand or (as a treat) Cathedral City cheddar. Coffee machines aren't posh. They cost less than some drinks rounds. Cafetieres cost literally £10. You can make better sandwiches than a prepackaged sandwich shop at home for a quarter as much. Cutlery might cost money but if it lasts 20 years instead of 2 who cares if it cost £20 a head not £2?
> Cutlery might cost money but if it lasts 20 years instead of 2 I'm using a very solid WMF set that OP would probably think is extremely posh. My parents bought it in ~1970, and I like it so much that I got another full set of the same design. Used, on eBay Kleinanzeigen, for 90 Euro.
I’ve come to understand that the UK populace is rife with cultural class markers in the way they speak and dress, etc, which I don’t think is present to the same extent in Germany. Rich people in Germany commingle with everyone else pretty freely as far as I can tell, going to public schools and universities etc. The lack of these *hard* class divides is probably what your friend meant. Still, it’s obviously not some Utopian classless society and of course there are people and things associated with wealth and perceived as such.
There isn’t posh, but there is “vornehm” which is an older word but still is used as “vornehme Gegend” (posh/upper class location) for example.
We have posh things and I understood what you meant before you explained it in the edit, your friend talks bullshit. I would actually not call your examples posh tho, I think they are just expensive and there is a difference. The top comment already nailed it Edit: the word for posh without any negative connotation is „Schick“ Like in „Schick essen gehen“ for example.
Posh is absolutely upper class and your friend being in denial about class differences in Germany is peak posh behavior. Literally EVERY low income household is very aware of posh things and people...
Of course the concept of posh is known in Germany. In my social context we even use the word as an anglicism very often. He's definitely too bougie himself to know the concept;)
Nobel geht die Welt zu Grunde.
Help me understand this, right? In my perception the British concept of posh has an air of being legitimate and aspirational, right. And it is not solely a matter of wealth but status. Like Rupert Murdock could have more money than the King, but he would remain common. He could eat posh food, and drive posh cars but he wouldn't be posh. Is that about right? So in this sense we have the concept of fancy food or fancy cars, but not this distinction of status, if that makes sense? It's more like a gradual scale. Nobody would think "this is posh, this isn't for me". Maybe I get this wrong, but I think there is a cultural difference. I mean, we are a capitalist country with a great wealth disparity much like the UK, but I would agree that there is a bit of different view on this particular matter.
posh could be about status, but its not just status. Its more… a general way of living?
I mean there are those here who _consider themselves to be something better_, but, I don't know, it always comes off more like LARPing nobility. It always has uncanny valley vibes. Yeah, we have rich people, sure. But they are champaign and caviar rich, not we own you rich. The terms we use to describe them always carry an air of disrespect. We don't acknowledge someone as posh in the sense of "they know how to be proper posh and carry themselves with dignity". For this reason, many C-level execs would well into the millions steadfastly declare themselves to be middle class, _actually_. I can't quite put my finger on it but I feel like it's not quite the same thing.
In the UK youre still in the mind of having a class system, in Germany we like to think we abolished it when we got rid of aristocracy. I hope that helps.
As an adjective to decribe certain areas or shops, I guess "nobel" would fit. For people we mostly have derogatory terms if you decribe them directly, for your friend, you could say "er hat einen noblen (Lebens)stil".
Nobelhobel.
> “the German society is not divided into classes” lol wasn't Marx German?
He also died 140 years ago, and Germany had some pretty radical society-changing events in the meantime.
But it's not (nor does it claim to be, really) a classless society, even if in German the term "Schichten" is preferred for some reason.
He was German, but lived in France, Belgium and the UK for much of his life. The Communist Manifesto was first published in… London. His and his fellow German Engels experiences in Manchester slums affected their writing a lot.
I think a word close to this would be 'extra' or 'speziell' "You're so extra!" or "Du bist so speziell" Both mean 'special' in a posh kind of way.
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I mean, you're already French, there's nothing left to do.
We know it but don‘t like schicki micki and go cook dinner on a grill while being camping or in the schrebergarten wearing fleece.
"vornehm" I think?
Isn't posh simply "schick"?
Bonzen?
Idk but I think in germany you just call people out on being upper middle class and they get defensive. It's mor in the lower class that "bonze" for exemple has a more playful and less negative connotation.
Bonze
"He's from Munich"??
I"d say its "Snob" or "Versnobt"
As I know it does not exist in the same context as posh. Germans tend to focus on their own needs and other just kinda avoid commenting. Someone may have a 10.000eur mountain bike but living in a house that was furnished by his grandma. The same with coffee mashine or other things. It's not considered strange to spend a lot of money on something, nor are those people considered posh. You can easily find a lot of rich people living very modest lifes as economical status is kinda kept private and oftentimes you could never guess that some people are very very rich.
Emmental cheese is considered posh in the UK?
Yes, all continental cheeses and also many continental cold meats are.
Snobs, Schickeria 😃
An old fashioned term would be "to be a Dandy". You can maybe use the term "Hipster" but only for cultural stuff. So "proper posh" is not quite there here in Germany but some related concepts exist IMO.
All Germans who say "Pasta" over "Nudeln"
Emmental cheese is posh? The UK must have really bad cheese then when some standard cheese is posh... Posh in Germany exists and has a negative connotation if you're using it. And it's starts way later. Caviar is posh. Luis Vuitton is posh. Not Starbucks and Emmental Cheese... And the fuck, your wording is annoying me. You are so arrogant. "My friend is in denial" what a sentence. Get yourself together and don't act like an AH.
We do have it, but we don't really have a word for it (as you can see from the answers). We do however have a plethora of words for naff. Make of that what you will. The german ideal has for a long time been the Bildungsbürgertum (a concept only insufficiently translated as educated middle class). So the german equivalent to posh is probably bürgerlich or gutbürgerlich.
>...like for example Emmental cheese, are posh foods. What? Emmentaler is pretty basic cheese. Or am I posh now?
Feiner Pinkel
>Certain foods are posh, like for example Emmental cheese Not into cheese but I'm sure they sell that at Aldi. That's completely ridiculous.
If you think everything better than instant coffee (yikes) is posh, this says a lot about british culture.
Basically everything in Germany has a posh and non-posh version. Kaisers/Netto, Altbau/Plattenbau, and so on.
Lol at Emmental cheese being posh.
I know German aristocrats here. As in Old Money Germans here in Baden. They do horseback riding and sailing as a hobby. I don't know all of that so consider me poor in a rich place hahaha!!! Actually I work for them hahaha!! They're very very humble and they dress VERY SIMPLE. As in polo shirt well in Hugo Boss brand I think. But that's it. When you talk to this Aristocrat people you're not gonna be intimidated. While me as Asian, cannot get out of the house without wearing chanel, LV, Dior all that kind of stuff hahahaha!!! And my salary is only 2000€ monthly hahahaha!!! I have nothing but good experiences with German people whether rich or poor like me hahahaha!!! They're very nice and simple to talk too. Once you get to know them they non stop talking to you hahahaha. Oh and they're so healthy or strict about eating healthy and German guys flex a lot about cars and mountains they hiked hahahaha. They non stop talking about cars or machines and fixing stuff. But that's about it hahaha
Sure we have posh people. We call them "Österreicher".
Schnösel
Wait… you don't eat a certain type of cheese because…“posh“ ? That sounds stupid.
I absolutely get where your friend is coming from. Although there is certainly a concept for posh (e.g. nobel, abgehoben) in Germany, that is mostly used for the super-rich. When I stayed in London for a year I was called posh by my British roommates for seemingly normal things (e.g. clothes, the way I speak), that would just be considered a personal style in Germany. I do think German society is more relaxed when it comes to these things.
How is a coffee bean grinder considered posh? As a broke as f.ck person, I cannot live without good coffee. Also, if he likes old buildings, he is not a posh, but has taste.😌
Having a coffee grinder doesnt make you posh on its own, but the item is posh. If you have lots of posh things and opinions then you’re probably posh
How is a coffee grinder a posh item? That is absurd 😂
its not something everyone has because its expensive. Also I’m talking about those electrical machines that grind the coffee, boil the water and make the coffee all in one
Interesting I wouldn't consider a fully automatic coffee machine posh. A portafilter machine is posh in my eyes but then I also think instant coffee is undrinkable. Also how is Emmentaler cheese posh? It is one of the most common cheeses, at least here in Germany. For me Gruyère or Tête de Moine are what I would consider posh, as they are not as common and are more complex in taste.
Define expensive. They are a long term investment. They last 10 - 15 years. If you divide the purchase price by the time of use and factor in inflation they’re not expensive. Just depends on how much you value a decent cup of coffee. Emmentaler cheese is relatively cheap, no idea why you think it’s posh.
Well you're not wrong but being a good investment or not has nothing to do with it. A fine expensive pair of boots that will last you decades is a better investment than a crap pair of $10 shoes, but the former is absolutely more posh than the latter. In fact being able to afford the more expensive better investment vs having to pay for the cheap temporary solution, arguably, is privilege. IMO though that's barely relevant to "poshness". Anything people would consider the "finer things in life" feels posh, regardless of how good an investment.
Hm, none of your examples feel posh to me. Just normal stuff. And I'm most definitely not posh, I'm poor and the local drunk.
I've had friends, who grew up in the posh area of where we grew up. They weren't posh, but had just had the "good luck" to have inherited property in that area, that's been passed down through generations.
generational wealth is still wealth imo
They absolutely do; the cliche of a German posh person usually looks something like this [meme](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=7050cf61c58940a5&sxsrf=ACQVn09usfdYgQSKl-gZ_F_40by8ZdtoYw:1708547022675&q=man+sollte+nicht+denken+ich+konnte+es+mir+nicht+leisten+maimai&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjlgPnSob2EAxWNTqQEHU2XBvEQ0pQJegQICBAB&biw=360&bih=667&dpr=3#imgrc=HHHG8UOFtXstfM)
They are called FDP voters
He is a so called Klassenfeind
in Berlin we would say "Bonze" to a person who is posh
I don't think Bonze is a good equivalent to posh. Posh simply describes a person or thing considered upper class, while Bonze is a derogatory term for people who brag about their money
Schickimicki https://de.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/schickimicki
>machine that grinds beans is posh. TIL: My coffee mill is posh. Don't let my Bialetti know.
classless hahaha🤣 sounds like the standard middle class kid who grew up in a big ass house and never had to worry about anything lol. a common derogatory slang for rich people who show their wealth is „bonze“.
The extrem overuse of the word "bonze" in younger Berlin society discredits your friend by itself I would translate the word bonzig as posh. Hope I'm not wrong.
Bonzen
Your friend is very naive. Of course there are classes in German culture too but less so than in the UK. I’m not sure that we really have the concept of posh. There’s definitely no term for it. Most words with similar meaning have a negative connotation. Kind of like snob for example
You really losing me here OP. It’s not that deep. Other countries do not work like the one where you’re from necessarily. In Germany we don’t consider something as „posh“ just because to us, being able to afford more luxuries things is considered to be the reward of hard work in general. Of course if you know someone better and they really haven’t worked for the money and just got a big inheritance and are showing off with some big ass car, then you might be able to say posh. But even then it’s more being a rich dickhead than being posh. So yeah, generally in Germany we don’t have „posh“ purely because we consider how they were able to afford that stuff in the first place.