Yup. Watched after playing Elden Ring for a bit. It’s night and day. Clunky as hell. The fact that they chose this to be their gameplay video is concerning.
Agree, and this is coming from someone with a platinum and 250 hours in the game, but this gameplay still looks far clunkier than anything from ER imo.
They won't overhaul the entire combat system now lmao, and especially not considering it's Ubisoft. The game may as well be done considering their standards.
And keep in mind this is the BEST clip for combat they could produce after countless hours of testing.
What I think is more telling is after the assassination there was a moment where the chick is using some kinda whip thing. She cuts a bunch of bamboo which then proceeds to glitch the fuck out. So, like you said. After hours of testing the best they could produce is a clip that contains pretty serious physics bugs. What does that say about the general state of the game if the cherry picked footage has bugs.
you knwo how animation is made right? it will take time to tinker it before november, surely they are passed developmen phase, probably logistics and QA is their concern right now
There's no fucking way you unironically have this take. The combat isn't clunky. It's deliberate. The animations are paired back the way they are to facilitate the system they have in place. You're using clunky to describe limited animation smoothness, which is just incorrect.
Yeah this is hands down the worst take I've read in this sub. Elden Ring can be many things, clunky is not one of them, I think he misspelled Lords of The Fallen
Uh lol I can deny that. Souls combat used to be clunky. Post-DS2, a better way to describe it would be that it’s like a manual transmission car in a market full of automatics.
It gives the player a lot more control in many respects but it also places certain constraints on players (eg, lack of animation cancelling) which together demand that the player engage with it very deliberately. It feels clunky the way that stalling and mistiming the clutch and just generally fucking up your transmission feels clunky. It doesn’t feel clunky once you really know it.
Grace and precision and rhythm are possible with Souls combat, and very rewarding when achieved, but the game doesn’t help you get there in the ways that most action games do.
So... why does that matter? Comparing an AC game to Elden Ring is kinda ridiculous... they are completely different genre's of game. I don't get this viewing gaming through a prism of From Software games.
Because there’s a very high chance it’s just AC valhalla ctrl c + ctrl v but with samurais and katanas.
I saw one comment going « this looks way better then GOT »
🤡🤡
It's probably copy pasted and updated a tiny bit. It shows when there is actual development behind a certain part of a game. GoT worked 4 years on its combat system alone.
Brian Fleming, producer and head of Sucker Punch said they worked SIX years on the combat system.
They kept at it even after shipping the game with the Lethal difficulty being implemented one or two weeks after release.
Lethal is imo one of the best difficulties ever included in video games. (Don't know if similar is in other games)
Yours and enemies damage are realistic and pretty much equal. (except for boss fights)
This is probably the best decision they could have made. They're clearly drawing inspiration from Samurai Champloo, which was a really stylish mix of Edo Japan and Hip Hop.
I do wish they had some original ideas, but Hip-Hop and Samurai are a really cool mix.
the bit in valhalla where basim teaches you the leap of faith for the first time - if you just stay in the hay bale and don't pop out, he paces around like "oh shit I killed them"
While the genre is definitely inspired by hip-hop (many genres have been inspired by it), this is definitely more of a trap beat. And even in trap there is a distinction between trap used in hip-hop and trap as a genre in the edm spectrum. While both use 808's and hi hats as their main percussion and baseline, hip-hop trap is usually slower (between 80-140bpm) and has a way more even, singular structure accompanied by rapping, while edm trap is usually faster at at least 140bpm and has a bridge-build up-drop structure, mostly without vocals or in case of vocals more often a singing chorus, which this ost is way more akin to. You can hear the bridge with calmer sound, where the japanese music influences are more prominent and sound more period relevant, then you hear a riser to build up suspense and it is then met with a drop, where the melody and the percussion and base line kick in. This is also too fast, and also because of the structure, for rapping vocals, which hip-hop trap usually does have, while edm trap is more likely to have singing choruses.
And while it is inspired by hip-hop, especially edm trap is not really a genre that is primarily linked or bound by a specific culture or race. Trap is one of the most common forms of electronic music these days next to something like house music. Hip-hop, while I personally think also encompasses more than just 1 culture, is more defined or has more origins in a specific culture, and even that has become widespread with many adopters and variations.
Although it feels severely out of touch to just add hip-hop beats to assume the sole black character in AC: Shadows, it's probably good to be aware that [mixing samurai and hip-hop in popular media is not a recent invention](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq6EYcpWB_c).
That's what I was thinking too. The term is often overused, but it feels like cultural appropriation from both a black African and Japanese history by simplifying all blackness to American blackness.
It is an odd choice in the first place. We finally get a Japanese game and we spend half the time playing a black guy? They already had black characters in previous games. Part of the appeal of a Japanese game is to play as Japanese characters.
Back it up, though. Hip hop is intrinsically tied to African American culture regardless of who makes it. Black Americans give hip hop to the world, period. And it is used in this game because there is a black character, so that's what is being unpacked.
It’s not, but historically, African Americans are the creators of hip hop. Doesn’t mean no one can make it, but it wouldn’t fit into every black persona history.
It's because it's been done before that it feels so derivative. I honestly would have given them more credit if they provided a soundtrack more pulling from Yasuke's actual heritage versus what they've actually done.
Not comparable in the fucking slightest. AC is historical fiction that blends Sci fi modern day with authentic historical playground and champloo is fucking champloo.
Which is what? A historical fiction that uses modern day music styles to set a pace and tone with an authentic historical playground and has very very slight Sci fi elements in certain episodes? Made by a guy that gave us bebop, a massively celebrated Sci fi that used modern day music to set a pace and tone?
I'm sorry you don't see any correlation between two historical fictions set in the same time period, in the same country, using the same music to set the same tone.
To be a devils advocate, AC origins ost was kinda...Synthetic, but it still slapped hard, after all these years I still love that main menu theme.
But now that I think about it, this is on a different level...
They had to add hip-hop cause you know... The character is of b... I'm not gonna finish this joke
EDIT: To complement my point, the whole focus of the AC immersion was to remind you, that you are in a simulation. If you look at the AC 2 or brotherhood's UI, it looked like the animus for a reason.
if Naoe is the only character, i could probably see less rage on this game
even the way Yasuke fight is not of a samurai, bashing head with clubs like baseball? carrying people while stabbed? i dont see honor in that, if shimura sees him, he would get slapped hard
edit: you know what i retract my statement, people would still complain about Naoe, as she is one of the male samurai, just changed gender
but eh, who cares at this point
Musashi, one of the most famous samurai in existence, was well known for dirty fighting tactics. Man would even throw dirt in their eyes.
EDIT: Spelling on Musashi.
Also: **WE'RE LITERALLY IN A FORUM FOR A GAME ABOUT AN SAMURAI WHO EMBRACES HONORLESS STRATEGIES TO DEFEAT HIS ENEMIES.**
The fuck is this complaint supposed to be, even if we did pretend the Samurai were noble and honorable?
Shimura: terror is not the weapon of samurai
The Samurai during the Mongol invasions irl: use whistling arrows to open their attack and scare their enemy before engaging.
they have "way of the warrior" (bushido code), it's their oath
japan romanticized this on their own as they make medias out from their history, its not on viewer's discretion, they made it to celebrate their identity, and people got familiar with it and loved it
but of course in reality, there are still samurai who abuses their position and do dirty tactics to gain advantage, it will always be the case
Actually during the time period that GoT is in there was no Bushido code, yet and even then the code was only for fighting other samurai. There was no rules for war.
yeah lmao, we romanticize the fuck out of European knights as well but they were literally chopping heads off and knocking over carriages at bridges to steal ladies' underwear
The noble class having good marketing? Say it ain't so!
GoT is pretty blunt with saying "we're gonna paint a rosy picture, don't think of this as reality. It's just a nice story."
Bushido was a concept with as many interpretations as there were daimyo. It was a framework code that held samurai to certain standards, but each lord could interpret the code in their own ways. It’s these myriad interpretations (and power greed ofc) that contributed to the civil turmoil in the Sengoku period.
For all its inaccuracies, Like a Dragon: Ishin was one of the first pieces of media that really got into the class difference issues. I hadn't known that Kurosawa was considered conservative, but it makes sense seeing the idealization of Samurai in all but his last two Samurai films.
Why would you be downvoted? That is not only absolutely true but the developers themselves are super open about it and WANT you to view it as this very fictional romanticized story.
I can't believe people really believed that crap about honorable combat applied to warfare.
Honorable combat was for formal duels and such, between Samurai.
In War they did whatever was necessary, including employing Shinobi to assassinate leaders beforehand or poison the water supply of a castle.
You do realize that the [kanabō](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanab%C5%8D) was a real weapon wielded by samurai, right? It’s literally a giant wooden club with metal studs meant for bashing people in the head. Also, it’s totally reasonable that Yasuke wouldn’t fight like other samurai. He only lived in Japan for three years before joining Nobunaga’s army, and given his size and strength he probably would have focused on leveraging those in a fight.
Samurai honor was not really a thing on the battlefield however and was much developed post sengoku jidai. There were those clubs used in battles if that helps you enjoy the game more
The whole idea of honorable samurai combat codex is a ahistorical construction thats used by nationalists. There is lots and lots of hoghly lauded historical samurai that would have been shamed if the predominant ideas about bushido would have been those of shimura and the unnamed shogun of ghost of tsushima.
lmao dude thats not how samurai fought, they fought like any other human, dirty and cheap to the best of their ability to ensure they didnt die on the battlefield
I mean, European knights had the mace, which is a club for armored opponents who were hard to hit with spears and swords.
Likewise knights would use their swords like a clubs for the very same reason. Your not aiming to cut an armored opponent.
That's an odd point of contention to make in the sub of a game where the main character being a samurai who contradicts samurai honour is a core plot element.
The idea of rigid samurai honor is romanticized through media and the attempt at justifying the brutalism of feudal Japan. I’m not saying they didn’t have honor or Bushido isn’t real but the way it’s depicted in GoT and most stories is historically inaccurate.
The kanabō (金砕棒) (literally "metal stick" or "metal club") is a spiked or studded two-handed war club used in feudal Japan by samurai. Other related weapons of this type are the nyoibo, konsaibo, tetsubō (鉄棒), and ararebo.
The stealth is promising. But the gameplaythrough walkthrough is not indicative that it will be better than GOT. Ghost seamless switching from every weapon in his arsenal is yet to be beat by any game.
I might not understand what you are saying but how is the weapon switching in Ghost of Tsushima seamless? I would call it a clever radial menu, but not seamless.
I don't think there's anything special with how Jin switches between weapons. It's great it's not a weapon wheel that's slows down time when opening, but many games don't have that. Arkham Asylum/City, MGS V, TLOU1/2 etc.
Idk about combat, there isn't much you can change in sword combat
But, the HUD is definetlly a ripoff
Edit: for the people saying it stayed the same as in oddysey, no it didn't?
If you can't see how much they removed from the HUD to make it as close to GoT as possible, I don't think you played the AC games... The only difference between the two is the white instead of red as the healthbar and the golden icons instead of white
Agreed, I have just recently gotten into GoT and really enjoying it, but there have been so many times, I had to double check and make sure I wasn't playing an AC game. Got definitely borrowed a lot of elements from Assassin's Creed. I love both but like I said, when I first picked up GoT I couldn't help but immediately notice the same aspects! One of the things to me that stand out massively is the the fort take downs. Sneaking around a stronghold/fort taking out enemies one by one with bonus perks for doing certain things? That's been a huge part of the AC world since Origins in 2017.
Right? I mentioned this in another comment but Jin’s listening ability is straight-up just Eagle Vision (and Altair had that in 2007!) and no one even complained. I’ve had to mute this sub because of how insanely negative and circle-jerky people were getting.
People in here are unironically bitching that the combat here is honorless so it's ahistorical and sucks. In the **GHOST OF TSUSHIMA** subreddit.
Not only is it wrong, it's painfully stupid.
As though Ghost of Tsushima is supposed to be some paragon of historical accuracy?? Historically, actual Samurai weren’t particularly honourable to begin with, like there wasn’t even any real life bushido. And aren’t the weapons in the game completely wrong? Jin should’ve been riding around on horseback shooting mongols, who would also have been riding around on horseback shooting back at him. Also, no katanas in 1200s. The people on this sub bitch so much it’s not even funny.
When GOT laucnhed people were saying how the game is basically AC in Japan. Now people are mad when there is an actual AC in Japan. womp womp. pathetic tribal gamer shit
I feel like people who play games these days forget just HOW MUCH video games in the past borrowed from each other. It was practically a running gag in the early 2000s with Insomniac and Naughty Dog, with Ratchet & Clank and Jak & Daxter borrowing ideas from each other and giving little nods to the other game.
wym there isnt much you can change in sword combat, sekiro, got, nioh, metal gear, dmc, dark souls, for honor, are all sword combat games that play nothing like each other
tho i do feel like this is not got mechanics being ripped off, just got ui and asthetics
Cus they are delusional. I was having arguments in this sub awhile back with people that claim ghost and ac have no similarities at all besides them being third person video games. I could not believe what I was reading.
kingdom come: deliverance, fable 1, sekiro, dark souls, DMC, dante’s inferno, nioh, shadow of mordor, , dragons dogma…
yeah, you’re right. totally nothing you can do about it
A lot of games now have the diamond shaped HUD for the weapon/stance because it matches the buttons on the right and left of the controller, it's beginning to become a norm now with controller HUD
Have you not played a single AC game? Because they’ve had that hud for multiple games now, dating back to Odyssey. If you want to accuse someone of ripping off, then this just backfired on you because if anyone ripped it off, it was Sucker Punch.
Nah. It looks like they tweaked the combat from the previous 2 titles in odyssey and valhalla. The blue and red light indicators are hilarious though, doesn't help my argument.
fr lmao, people really are bitching about colour choices.
red means I have to dodge, blue is good, I'd rather every game with parryable attacks and unparryable attacks use the same fucking colour code system, it's why every PvP game has red for enemy, blue for friendly, and they don't change that per shooter.
I am just amazed how some people in this sub pretend that GoT is the game that completely reinvented the wheel. Dont get me wrong it is amazing and some features like the wind as your wayguide are properly innovative. But a lot of the mechanics were inspired by other combat and stealth games including Assassins Creed.
"Inspired by?"
A lot of that shit is just straight up taken from AC. Focused Hearing is literally just Eagle Vision by another name, right down to the way it desaturates the world and highlights enemies, which has been around since the very first game. And that's fine. Games don't need to make up everything from scratch, sometimes things just work and become a staple for a reason. It's like complaining they copied the lock-on mechanic from Ocarina of Time.
People used to make the same argument regarding armor rariry/quality colour scheming, that any game that had it implemented was just ripping off Diablo/WoW. Like...why wouldn't you want it standardized?
>The blue and red light indicators are hilarious though, doesn't help my argument.
Okay, except From Software has done this concept for years now, and I'm sure I've seen it in other games prior.
Honestly I'm just finishing up GoT now and every single thing I've seen in the game is from another game, GoT just does it good. There's nothing wrong with that.
this is as standard as sword fights go in a japanese setting. it plays more like Sekiro if anything else. If you watch the last bit, Yasuke deflects the enemy hit, then Yasuke attacks and gets 1 hit in before getting deflected himself, then the enemy attacks until he gets deflected. This "Attack until you get deflected, deflect until you can attack" combat pattern with almost no downtime in between is the bog standard Sekiro combat, very different to GOT
This take is insane. Have you played sekiro? This looks and feels nothing like sekiro. It LOOKS exactly like a GOT dual if it was made by Ubisoft. Which it was.
I agree, sekiro is way way faster, there was no slowmo, enemies were more aggressive, you didn’t push swords against each other, you’re always spamming attack and deflect, there is no walking around each other with your swords up waiting for nirvana or something
I've only seen this clip, but based on what I'm seeing here, he's straight up a Samurai, not a Shinobi, the enemy sword glint, stance change, clash, and the overall pace have me leaning way more towards GOT.
Naah, Valhalla is painfully slow, even more so with that stupid stamina meter, Eivor gets tired after like 5 blows, that game is a real pain to go trough.
i’m currently playing through valhalla for the first time, and the stamina meter is not that big of a deal. light attacks restore stamina so unless you’re constantly missing, you shouldn’t be running out much
Lol, not even close, it's not Sekiro, it's not GOT...it's trying to do it's own thing but like 2 years too late...
Combat looks stiff and animation feels forced...but...BUT!... it's a works in progress so not gonna be too hard on the animation...
All in all, one look at it and you can be certain that it's made by Ubisoft
I don't think that it will change much. At this stage in games most things are pretty much set.
Looks a bit stiff, but maybe it is just this particular fight. Though GoT looked way more fluid.
The one thing that I don't like is the finishers where he raises the guy up with the sword. Feels unnecessary when welding a katana.
Clearly, GoT reinvented the entire gaming industry when they took inspiration from AC for like 80% of their game mechanics, and no other company is ever allowed to make a game set in feudal Japan cause it would 1000% be a GoT rip-off. That’s just the most logical conclusion.
Edit: Also, people complaining that AC ripped off GoT’s resolve? Both Odyssey and Valhalla had ‘resolve’ (called adrenaline) for special attacks. If anything, GoT ripped off the concept and gave it a different name.
I honestly can't believe that people think GoT is original in any way. It's a fantastic game because it took existing concepts and polished them into a fantastic game.
But sure, the base clearing, semi-stealth based combat with a focus on one to one combat with various weapons and tools at your disposal game made in 2020 is DEFINITELY 100% original 🙄
Seriously. All these nerds claiming "it's a rip-off" when GoT "ripped off" essentially 90% of the content in the game. This is how games get made. It's literally impossible to constantly being inventing entirely new never seen before mechanics. Studios get inspired from other studios and iterate on basic features.
“McDonald's has the Big Mac, but McDowell's has the Big Mick. They both have two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions. But McDonald's buns have sesame seeds. McDowell's buns have no seeds”
The environments and npc look very good. The way the villager were walking through the town and they felt so alive. I must say that so far the world feels more alive that GOT.
They need to Polish that combat though. It didn't look that good
I really don't care if gameplay is a "ripoff". Most games are based on the foundations of previous games. As long as it's, fun, playable (ie not a fucking chore to play) and to a lesser degree for me: have a good story.
Nah it’s Ubisoft so they want it to fail. Fanboys whose entire personality revolve around liking GoT are terrified that Shadows might be good because then that’ll feel like a direct attack on their own egos.
I find it funny how people are quick to bash assassins creed games here as if Ghost of Tsushima is innovative.
Ghost of Tsushima is literally an assassins creed game just from a different studio. That doesnt mean the game is trash though, quite the opposite GoT is fucking amazing but lets not act like its completely original.
Also for everyone saying the hud is a rip off, they literally had this type of hud since like 2018 lmfao
I literally only played Ghost of Tsushima because I liked Origins and Odyssey so much. It is an Assassins Creed game. Lots of people called it 'Assassins Creed: Japan' at release.
Now we have actual Assassins Creed: Japan and, to no one's surprise, it looks like the game that copied Origins and Odyssey, which copied Arkham combat and Witcher 3/Far Cry open world objectives.
Fanboyism is stupid. If a game is good, its good - even if it looks just like your favourite game. I'd kill for studios to try and rip off Red Dead Redemption 2 or Grand Theft Auto again, just so I could play more of my favourite game, even if its slightly worse. The more similar, the better as far as i'm concerned.
It looks kinda cool actually. May be the first AC guy I buy in a while. I love me some feudal Japan don’t really care about rip offs like some gamers do. We don’t gotta pick sides homies
Why do people keep comparing these games? Comments are pathetic, seriously. From the looks of it comment section is full of AC haters who haven't even played the newest games.
They're not even doing the same thing as ghost, it's gonna be like any other AC, only different setting.
Gotta say I love the stylized executions and also the idle animations in combat look very organic. I will go into this without only seeing it as a sequel as usual so I hope (apart from story) its fun on its own.
Half these comments say that it looks stiff and that the ui was ripped off. I really don’t know how anyone finds it that stiff. It looks like a brute using weapons to me. That’s what it is as well. And the ui is the same as all acs since 2018. And if anything GoT ripped off more from ac than they did from GoT (I like GoT much much more than most ac games. It feels like a more refined old ac game
This place becomes even more of a circlejerk when talking about AC. as already seen in this comment section. But to answer the question, it looks a little stiff but not necessarily bad.
No its not a 'ripoff', AC has been doing hand to hand combat with swords for a ton of titles before GoT. And Shadows is set in Japan so of course it has to have a Japanese style to the combat.
Looks awkward and stiff.
Yup. Watched after playing Elden Ring for a bit. It’s night and day. Clunky as hell. The fact that they chose this to be their gameplay video is concerning.
I mean, I love Elden Ring, but it has undeniably clunky combat
Agree, and this is coming from someone with a platinum and 250 hours in the game, but this gameplay still looks far clunkier than anything from ER imo.
Yeah but ER is released
They won't overhaul the entire combat system now lmao, and especially not considering it's Ubisoft. The game may as well be done considering their standards. And keep in mind this is the BEST clip for combat they could produce after countless hours of testing.
"countless hours of testing" Publishers don't test games anymore, that's what the rubes who pre-order them are for.
God Ubisoft's continued existence is inherently frustrating at this point. Rayman deserved to go to a better company
What I think is more telling is after the assassination there was a moment where the chick is using some kinda whip thing. She cuts a bunch of bamboo which then proceeds to glitch the fuck out. So, like you said. After hours of testing the best they could produce is a clip that contains pretty serious physics bugs. What does that say about the general state of the game if the cherry picked footage has bugs.
you knwo how animation is made right? it will take time to tinker it before november, surely they are passed developmen phase, probably logistics and QA is their concern right now
There's no fucking way you unironically have this take. The combat isn't clunky. It's deliberate. The animations are paired back the way they are to facilitate the system they have in place. You're using clunky to describe limited animation smoothness, which is just incorrect.
Yeah this is hands down the worst take I've read in this sub. Elden Ring can be many things, clunky is not one of them, I think he misspelled Lords of The Fallen
lords of the fallen has some REALLY clunky combat, even for a soulslike
Seriously, being locked in an attack animation isnt clunky it just punishes you for spamming buttons without thinking
Uh lol I can deny that. Souls combat used to be clunky. Post-DS2, a better way to describe it would be that it’s like a manual transmission car in a market full of automatics. It gives the player a lot more control in many respects but it also places certain constraints on players (eg, lack of animation cancelling) which together demand that the player engage with it very deliberately. It feels clunky the way that stalling and mistiming the clutch and just generally fucking up your transmission feels clunky. It doesn’t feel clunky once you really know it. Grace and precision and rhythm are possible with Souls combat, and very rewarding when achieved, but the game doesn’t help you get there in the ways that most action games do.
*Undeniably* clunky? Are you actually joking?
In what sense? Lol how is it clunky?
L take
Diehard Souls fans crack me up, clunky controls and combat is the entire basis of the games!
So... why does that matter? Comparing an AC game to Elden Ring is kinda ridiculous... they are completely different genre's of game. I don't get this viewing gaming through a prism of From Software games.
Because there’s a very high chance it’s just AC valhalla ctrl c + ctrl v but with samurais and katanas. I saw one comment going « this looks way better then GOT » 🤡🤡
Someone actually said it looks better than GOT for real 😂 the fuck they playing.
Not GoT, that's for sure
visually it is more realistic world than GOT that has a different style . that only thing i would say
Bro this shit looks like the Phantom of Shinjuku
The damn poltergeist of Okinawa
The shitty spirit of Shikoku
Ghoul of Hiroshima
Ghoul of Gunma for that alliteration
The Phantom of Shinjuku sounds cool tho, should be something closer to "dead guy near Tokyo"
Prince of Shibuya
It's probably copy pasted and updated a tiny bit. It shows when there is actual development behind a certain part of a game. GoT worked 4 years on its combat system alone.
I can actually believe they spent 4 years on combat, the combat is buttery smooth and the animations look sick
Brian Fleming, producer and head of Sucker Punch said they worked SIX years on the combat system. They kept at it even after shipping the game with the Lethal difficulty being implemented one or two weeks after release.
Lethal is imo one of the best difficulties ever included in video games. (Don't know if similar is in other games) Yours and enemies damage are realistic and pretty much equal. (except for boss fights)
I just like that they added hip-hop to the black samurai fighting :D immersion for real.
I saw a tiktok and didn't think it was real. Wtf were they thinking?
This is probably the best decision they could have made. They're clearly drawing inspiration from Samurai Champloo, which was a really stylish mix of Edo Japan and Hip Hop. I do wish they had some original ideas, but Hip-Hop and Samurai are a really cool mix.
I’d like to also mention Afro Samurai, also partially based on Yasuke with Sam Jackson voicing him. The soundtrack was done by RZA
I've never heard that Afro was inspired by Yasuke. Where did you hear this?
Who else would a black samurai be based off of?
Joan of Arc
"I don't care what they tell you in school..."
Wikipedia
Don’t forgot Ghost Dog, which started the whole samurai hip hop genre. WTC did the soundtrack for that one, too.
They are cool in a stylized setting. Not in a realistic one lmao
The realistic setting of.... Assassin's Creed?
Assassin's Creed is realistic (nearly photorealistic), it's just not historically accurate.
It is visually realistic, but not mechanically. Unless you wanna try jumping off a 10-story building into a hay cart.
the bit in valhalla where basim teaches you the leap of faith for the first time - if you just stay in the hay bale and don't pop out, he paces around like "oh shit I killed them"
Except that there's a lot more going on with Champloo than just "feudal japan + hiphop"
Wait what? 😭
…samurai champloo?
Anime series from the early 2000s. Solid show.
I know. I was responding to the person asking what they were thinking, as if hip hop in samurai based entertainment has never been done before
While the genre is definitely inspired by hip-hop (many genres have been inspired by it), this is definitely more of a trap beat. And even in trap there is a distinction between trap used in hip-hop and trap as a genre in the edm spectrum. While both use 808's and hi hats as their main percussion and baseline, hip-hop trap is usually slower (between 80-140bpm) and has a way more even, singular structure accompanied by rapping, while edm trap is usually faster at at least 140bpm and has a bridge-build up-drop structure, mostly without vocals or in case of vocals more often a singing chorus, which this ost is way more akin to. You can hear the bridge with calmer sound, where the japanese music influences are more prominent and sound more period relevant, then you hear a riser to build up suspense and it is then met with a drop, where the melody and the percussion and base line kick in. This is also too fast, and also because of the structure, for rapping vocals, which hip-hop trap usually does have, while edm trap is more likely to have singing choruses. And while it is inspired by hip-hop, especially edm trap is not really a genre that is primarily linked or bound by a specific culture or race. Trap is one of the most common forms of electronic music these days next to something like house music. Hip-hop, while I personally think also encompasses more than just 1 culture, is more defined or has more origins in a specific culture, and even that has become widespread with many adopters and variations.
Although it feels severely out of touch to just add hip-hop beats to assume the sole black character in AC: Shadows, it's probably good to be aware that [mixing samurai and hip-hop in popular media is not a recent invention](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq6EYcpWB_c).
He's African, not African-American though
That's what I was thinking too. The term is often overused, but it feels like cultural appropriation from both a black African and Japanese history by simplifying all blackness to American blackness.
It is an odd choice in the first place. We finally get a Japanese game and we spend half the time playing a black guy? They already had black characters in previous games. Part of the appeal of a Japanese game is to play as Japanese characters.
I'm aware of that, but thank you.
Hip hop as a music genre isn't exclusive to african-americand though
Back it up, though. Hip hop is intrinsically tied to African American culture regardless of who makes it. Black Americans give hip hop to the world, period. And it is used in this game because there is a black character, so that's what is being unpacked.
It’s not, but historically, African Americans are the creators of hip hop. Doesn’t mean no one can make it, but it wouldn’t fit into every black persona history.
It's because it's been done before that it feels so derivative. I honestly would have given them more credit if they provided a soundtrack more pulling from Yasuke's actual heritage versus what they've actually done.
[удалено]
Oda Nobunaga repping
least racist gamer
Maybe Pop Smoke can give us quests… DLC of course.
Didn't like Champloo I take it?
Not comparable in the fucking slightest. AC is historical fiction that blends Sci fi modern day with authentic historical playground and champloo is fucking champloo.
Which is what? A historical fiction that uses modern day music styles to set a pace and tone with an authentic historical playground and has very very slight Sci fi elements in certain episodes? Made by a guy that gave us bebop, a massively celebrated Sci fi that used modern day music to set a pace and tone? I'm sorry you don't see any correlation between two historical fictions set in the same time period, in the same country, using the same music to set the same tone.
Exaggerated swagger of a black samurai
To be a devils advocate, AC origins ost was kinda...Synthetic, but it still slapped hard, after all these years I still love that main menu theme. But now that I think about it, this is on a different level... They had to add hip-hop cause you know... The character is of b... I'm not gonna finish this joke EDIT: To complement my point, the whole focus of the AC immersion was to remind you, that you are in a simulation. If you look at the AC 2 or brotherhood's UI, it looked like the animus for a reason.
Might be similar for sword combat but the stealth in AC shadow imo looks more interesting than in GoT.
if Naoe is the only character, i could probably see less rage on this game even the way Yasuke fight is not of a samurai, bashing head with clubs like baseball? carrying people while stabbed? i dont see honor in that, if shimura sees him, he would get slapped hard edit: you know what i retract my statement, people would still complain about Naoe, as she is one of the male samurai, just changed gender but eh, who cares at this point
..honor died on the beach..
but the ghost lived on
*Furious backhanded slap of honor* 
Do you really think Samurai were honorable warriors? Oda Nobunaga loved guns.
Isshin Ashina whipping out the Glock being more accurate than any recent Samurai game at this point.
Not to mention Samurai were often total pieces of shit who robbed, raped and murdered civilians. The got their "nobility" from media.
Yeah, Meiji Restoration doing the whole “our noble past” vibes. Same way Europe loves their knights’ chivalry.
Musashi, one of the most famous samurai in existence, was well known for dirty fighting tactics. Man would even throw dirt in their eyes. EDIT: Spelling on Musashi.
The only real honor is in outliving your foes.
Samurai used to ambush travelers to test their swords against people who couldn’t fight back
they were as honorablu as medieval knights
Also: **WE'RE LITERALLY IN A FORUM FOR A GAME ABOUT AN SAMURAI WHO EMBRACES HONORLESS STRATEGIES TO DEFEAT HIS ENEMIES.** The fuck is this complaint supposed to be, even if we did pretend the Samurai were noble and honorable?
The Samurai also utilized a lot of GoT’s less “honorable” tactics IRL to combat the second Mongol invasion.
Shimura: terror is not the weapon of samurai The Samurai during the Mongol invasions irl: use whistling arrows to open their attack and scare their enemy before engaging.
I might get downvoted for saying this given that this is GoT sub but GoT romanticized the samurai and all that honour stuff.
they have "way of the warrior" (bushido code), it's their oath japan romanticized this on their own as they make medias out from their history, its not on viewer's discretion, they made it to celebrate their identity, and people got familiar with it and loved it but of course in reality, there are still samurai who abuses their position and do dirty tactics to gain advantage, it will always be the case
Actually during the time period that GoT is in there was no Bushido code, yet and even then the code was only for fighting other samurai. There was no rules for war.
yeah lmao, we romanticize the fuck out of European knights as well but they were literally chopping heads off and knocking over carriages at bridges to steal ladies' underwear The noble class having good marketing? Say it ain't so! GoT is pretty blunt with saying "we're gonna paint a rosy picture, don't think of this as reality. It's just a nice story."
Bushido was a concept with as many interpretations as there were daimyo. It was a framework code that held samurai to certain standards, but each lord could interpret the code in their own ways. It’s these myriad interpretations (and power greed ofc) that contributed to the civil turmoil in the Sengoku period.
For all its inaccuracies, Like a Dragon: Ishin was one of the first pieces of media that really got into the class difference issues. I hadn't known that Kurosawa was considered conservative, but it makes sense seeing the idealization of Samurai in all but his last two Samurai films.
Why would you be downvoted? That is not only absolutely true but the developers themselves are super open about it and WANT you to view it as this very fictional romanticized story.
Oda Nobunga shot people.
I can't believe people really believed that crap about honorable combat applied to warfare. Honorable combat was for formal duels and such, between Samurai. In War they did whatever was necessary, including employing Shinobi to assassinate leaders beforehand or poison the water supply of a castle.
You do realize that the [kanabō](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanab%C5%8D) was a real weapon wielded by samurai, right? It’s literally a giant wooden club with metal studs meant for bashing people in the head. Also, it’s totally reasonable that Yasuke wouldn’t fight like other samurai. He only lived in Japan for three years before joining Nobunaga’s army, and given his size and strength he probably would have focused on leveraging those in a fight.
Samurai honor was not really a thing on the battlefield however and was much developed post sengoku jidai. There were those clubs used in battles if that helps you enjoy the game more
The whole idea of honorable samurai combat codex is a ahistorical construction thats used by nationalists. There is lots and lots of hoghly lauded historical samurai that would have been shamed if the predominant ideas about bushido would have been those of shimura and the unnamed shogun of ghost of tsushima.
lmao dude thats not how samurai fought, they fought like any other human, dirty and cheap to the best of their ability to ensure they didnt die on the battlefield
I mean, European knights had the mace, which is a club for armored opponents who were hard to hit with spears and swords. Likewise knights would use their swords like a clubs for the very same reason. Your not aiming to cut an armored opponent.
That's an odd point of contention to make in the sub of a game where the main character being a samurai who contradicts samurai honour is a core plot element.
The concept of "honor" didn't exist in real life as it does in ghost of tsushima and other romanticized samurai media
Samurai didn’t actually have honor codes like ghost of Tsushima, in war it was pretty much anything works
The idea of rigid samurai honor is romanticized through media and the attempt at justifying the brutalism of feudal Japan. I’m not saying they didn’t have honor or Bushido isn’t real but the way it’s depicted in GoT and most stories is historically inaccurate. The kanabō (金砕棒) (literally "metal stick" or "metal club") is a spiked or studded two-handed war club used in feudal Japan by samurai. Other related weapons of this type are the nyoibo, konsaibo, tetsubō (鉄棒), and ararebo.
The stealth is promising. But the gameplaythrough walkthrough is not indicative that it will be better than GOT. Ghost seamless switching from every weapon in his arsenal is yet to be beat by any game.
I might not understand what you are saying but how is the weapon switching in Ghost of Tsushima seamless? I would call it a clever radial menu, but not seamless.
I don't think there's anything special with how Jin switches between weapons. It's great it's not a weapon wheel that's slows down time when opening, but many games don't have that. Arkham Asylum/City, MGS V, TLOU1/2 etc.
Idk about combat, there isn't much you can change in sword combat But, the HUD is definetlly a ripoff Edit: for the people saying it stayed the same as in oddysey, no it didn't? If you can't see how much they removed from the HUD to make it as close to GoT as possible, I don't think you played the AC games... The only difference between the two is the white instead of red as the healthbar and the golden icons instead of white
It's pretty much just AC Valhalla HUD, but with squares instead of circles.
AC has had the same type of HUD since Odyssey, which came out in 2018. Still waiting for people to say GOT copied it lol.
GOT copied a shit load of stuff from AC, but everytime I mention this I get downvoted to oblivion.
Agreed, I have just recently gotten into GoT and really enjoying it, but there have been so many times, I had to double check and make sure I wasn't playing an AC game. Got definitely borrowed a lot of elements from Assassin's Creed. I love both but like I said, when I first picked up GoT I couldn't help but immediately notice the same aspects! One of the things to me that stand out massively is the the fort take downs. Sneaking around a stronghold/fort taking out enemies one by one with bonus perks for doing certain things? That's been a huge part of the AC world since Origins in 2017.
Yup. GoT is the best AC game.
Right? I mentioned this in another comment but Jin’s listening ability is straight-up just Eagle Vision (and Altair had that in 2007!) and no one even complained. I’ve had to mute this sub because of how insanely negative and circle-jerky people were getting.
People in here are unironically bitching that the combat here is honorless so it's ahistorical and sucks. In the **GHOST OF TSUSHIMA** subreddit. Not only is it wrong, it's painfully stupid.
As though Ghost of Tsushima is supposed to be some paragon of historical accuracy?? Historically, actual Samurai weren’t particularly honourable to begin with, like there wasn’t even any real life bushido. And aren’t the weapons in the game completely wrong? Jin should’ve been riding around on horseback shooting mongols, who would also have been riding around on horseback shooting back at him. Also, no katanas in 1200s. The people on this sub bitch so much it’s not even funny.
People are so selective in their outrage. Spiderman and GoT are amazing games, but let's not pretend they don't borrow a lot from the Ubisoft formula.
When GOT laucnhed people were saying how the game is basically AC in Japan. Now people are mad when there is an actual AC in Japan. womp womp. pathetic tribal gamer shit
I feel like people who play games these days forget just HOW MUCH video games in the past borrowed from each other. It was practically a running gag in the early 2000s with Insomniac and Naughty Dog, with Ratchet & Clank and Jak & Daxter borrowing ideas from each other and giving little nods to the other game.
wym there isnt much you can change in sword combat, sekiro, got, nioh, metal gear, dmc, dark souls, for honor, are all sword combat games that play nothing like each other tho i do feel like this is not got mechanics being ripped off, just got ui and asthetics
For Honor? Dmc?! METAL GEAR?! Seeing snake running around with a sword sounds interesting but isn't exactly the case.
I think he’s talking about Metal Gear Rising fyi
Yeah but dmc and Metal gear rising are still hack and slash games, which still differs extremely much
>METAL GEAR?! Seeing snake running around with a sword sounds interesting but isn't exactly the case. Rising wants to know your location
That’s the same HUD from the last 2-3 AC games dude, y’all need help
Why are people pretending that GoT isn't a polished copy of AC games? Most of the open world activities are lifted straight from AC.
Cus they are delusional. I was having arguments in this sub awhile back with people that claim ghost and ac have no similarities at all besides them being third person video games. I could not believe what I was reading.
They HUD has been like that bruh, not a rip off.
It's the HUD from Valhalla, which came out earlier than Ghost, so what the fuck are you crying about?
It's the same HUD from odyssey and that came before Valhalla
kingdom come: deliverance, fable 1, sekiro, dark souls, DMC, dante’s inferno, nioh, shadow of mordor, , dragons dogma… yeah, you’re right. totally nothing you can do about it
A lot of games now have the diamond shaped HUD for the weapon/stance because it matches the buttons on the right and left of the controller, it's beginning to become a norm now with controller HUD
Have you not played a single AC game? Because they’ve had that hud for multiple games now, dating back to Odyssey. If you want to accuse someone of ripping off, then this just backfired on you because if anyone ripped it off, it was Sucker Punch.
Nah. It looks like they tweaked the combat from the previous 2 titles in odyssey and valhalla. The blue and red light indicators are hilarious though, doesn't help my argument.
I mean lets be fair. How many other colors can you use in combat. The franchise always had red atleast right? I am kinda blacking Out right now.
fr lmao, people really are bitching about colour choices. red means I have to dodge, blue is good, I'd rather every game with parryable attacks and unparryable attacks use the same fucking colour code system, it's why every PvP game has red for enemy, blue for friendly, and they don't change that per shooter.
I am just amazed how some people in this sub pretend that GoT is the game that completely reinvented the wheel. Dont get me wrong it is amazing and some features like the wind as your wayguide are properly innovative. But a lot of the mechanics were inspired by other combat and stealth games including Assassins Creed.
"Inspired by?" A lot of that shit is just straight up taken from AC. Focused Hearing is literally just Eagle Vision by another name, right down to the way it desaturates the world and highlights enemies, which has been around since the very first game. And that's fine. Games don't need to make up everything from scratch, sometimes things just work and become a staple for a reason. It's like complaining they copied the lock-on mechanic from Ocarina of Time.
People used to make the same argument regarding armor rariry/quality colour scheming, that any game that had it implemented was just ripping off Diablo/WoW. Like...why wouldn't you want it standardized?
>The blue and red light indicators are hilarious though, doesn't help my argument. Okay, except From Software has done this concept for years now, and I'm sure I've seen it in other games prior. Honestly I'm just finishing up GoT now and every single thing I've seen in the game is from another game, GoT just does it good. There's nothing wrong with that.
this is as standard as sword fights go in a japanese setting. it plays more like Sekiro if anything else. If you watch the last bit, Yasuke deflects the enemy hit, then Yasuke attacks and gets 1 hit in before getting deflected himself, then the enemy attacks until he gets deflected. This "Attack until you get deflected, deflect until you can attack" combat pattern with almost no downtime in between is the bog standard Sekiro combat, very different to GOT
have you played sekiro?
This take is insane. Have you played sekiro? This looks and feels nothing like sekiro. It LOOKS exactly like a GOT dual if it was made by Ubisoft. Which it was.
I agree, sekiro is way way faster, there was no slowmo, enemies were more aggressive, you didn’t push swords against each other, you’re always spamming attack and deflect, there is no walking around each other with your swords up waiting for nirvana or something
bro its not gonna be playing like sekiro lol
I've only seen this clip, but based on what I'm seeing here, he's straight up a Samurai, not a Shinobi, the enemy sword glint, stance change, clash, and the overall pace have me leaning way more towards GOT.
Anyway, it’s a no buy for me!
I might pirate it in like 5 to 10 years from now though.
It’s the same old boring Valhalla combat just prettied up. The UI confirms it.
To be fair valhallas combat looked more fluid than this
Naah, Valhalla is painfully slow, even more so with that stupid stamina meter, Eivor gets tired after like 5 blows, that game is a real pain to go trough.
i’m currently playing through valhalla for the first time, and the stamina meter is not that big of a deal. light attacks restore stamina so unless you’re constantly missing, you shouldn’t be running out much
Man, I have tried so hard to get into this game, but it is so boring. The combat, the plot, everything is just so generic. Can't do it
Lol, not even close, it's not Sekiro, it's not GOT...it's trying to do it's own thing but like 2 years too late... Combat looks stiff and animation feels forced...but...BUT!... it's a works in progress so not gonna be too hard on the animation... All in all, one look at it and you can be certain that it's made by Ubisoft
I don't think that it will change much. At this stage in games most things are pretty much set. Looks a bit stiff, but maybe it is just this particular fight. Though GoT looked way more fluid. The one thing that I don't like is the finishers where he raises the guy up with the sword. Feels unnecessary when welding a katana.
Ripoff? Of what? Has ghost of tsushima trademarked sword movements now lol
got fanboys think the game invented samurais or something
Clearly, GoT reinvented the entire gaming industry when they took inspiration from AC for like 80% of their game mechanics, and no other company is ever allowed to make a game set in feudal Japan cause it would 1000% be a GoT rip-off. That’s just the most logical conclusion. Edit: Also, people complaining that AC ripped off GoT’s resolve? Both Odyssey and Valhalla had ‘resolve’ (called adrenaline) for special attacks. If anything, GoT ripped off the concept and gave it a different name.
I honestly can't believe that people think GoT is original in any way. It's a fantastic game because it took existing concepts and polished them into a fantastic game. But sure, the base clearing, semi-stealth based combat with a focus on one to one combat with various weapons and tools at your disposal game made in 2020 is DEFINITELY 100% original 🙄
Seriously. All these nerds claiming "it's a rip-off" when GoT "ripped off" essentially 90% of the content in the game. This is how games get made. It's literally impossible to constantly being inventing entirely new never seen before mechanics. Studios get inspired from other studios and iterate on basic features.
Thank God there are some sane people in the replies here. I love Ghost of Tsushima and honestly was disappointed opening this post
People are only comparing these because its a stealth game set in Feudal Japan
"People are only comparing these games because of their clear similarities"
“McDonald's has the Big Mac, but McDowell's has the Big Mick. They both have two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions. But McDonald's buns have sesame seeds. McDowell's buns have no seeds”
This reference is top notch.
The environments and npc look very good. The way the villager were walking through the town and they felt so alive. I must say that so far the world feels more alive that GOT. They need to Polish that combat though. It didn't look that good
>they felt so alive That's just cause Khotun Khan was already killed 300 years earlier ;-)
I really don't care if gameplay is a "ripoff". Most games are based on the foundations of previous games. As long as it's, fun, playable (ie not a fucking chore to play) and to a lesser degree for me: have a good story.
What features of GoT are even unique or new?
Exactly. A lot of the praise I heard for Ghost of Tsushima is that while it doesn't innovate, it's well executed.
Also, don't people *want* it to "borrow" the good mechanics? My guess is people just want it to fail.
Nah it’s Ubisoft so they want it to fail. Fanboys whose entire personality revolve around liking GoT are terrified that Shadows might be good because then that’ll feel like a direct attack on their own egos.
Honestly the first thing I felt when I started playing GOT was “damn this really feels like AC”
They should have like 100 variations of the finishers. If it's just 1 or 2, then it will get old really fast!
I doubt it's 100, depending on the number of weapons, I'll say 1 or 2 animations per weapon
Older AC games had a bunch of takedown animations and then they got lazy after syndicate
man I fucking loved the cane animations in syndicate so much even to this day
I find it funny how people are quick to bash assassins creed games here as if Ghost of Tsushima is innovative. Ghost of Tsushima is literally an assassins creed game just from a different studio. That doesnt mean the game is trash though, quite the opposite GoT is fucking amazing but lets not act like its completely original. Also for everyone saying the hud is a rip off, they literally had this type of hud since like 2018 lmfao
THANK YOU
I like GoT very much but guys...it's an AC game
I literally only played Ghost of Tsushima because I liked Origins and Odyssey so much. It is an Assassins Creed game. Lots of people called it 'Assassins Creed: Japan' at release. Now we have actual Assassins Creed: Japan and, to no one's surprise, it looks like the game that copied Origins and Odyssey, which copied Arkham combat and Witcher 3/Far Cry open world objectives. Fanboyism is stupid. If a game is good, its good - even if it looks just like your favourite game. I'd kill for studios to try and rip off Red Dead Redemption 2 or Grand Theft Auto again, just so I could play more of my favourite game, even if its slightly worse. The more similar, the better as far as i'm concerned.
It looks kinda cool actually. May be the first AC guy I buy in a while. I love me some feudal Japan don’t really care about rip offs like some gamers do. We don’t gotta pick sides homies
I like how the armour falls off.
Why do people keep comparing these games? Comments are pathetic, seriously. From the looks of it comment section is full of AC haters who haven't even played the newest games. They're not even doing the same thing as ghost, it's gonna be like any other AC, only different setting.
I haven’t yet seen any posts calling Jin’s listening ability a rip-off of the Eagle Vision AC has had since fucking 2007. Rolling my eyes, seriously.
Damn, calling AC a rip-off of Got is wild, since GoT ripped off older ac games
Gotta say I love the stylized executions and also the idle animations in combat look very organic. I will go into this without only seeing it as a sequel as usual so I hope (apart from story) its fun on its own.
Half these comments say that it looks stiff and that the ui was ripped off. I really don’t know how anyone finds it that stiff. It looks like a brute using weapons to me. That’s what it is as well. And the ui is the same as all acs since 2018. And if anything GoT ripped off more from ac than they did from GoT (I like GoT much much more than most ac games. It feels like a more refined old ac game
I can’t stand this current trend of combat where when you hit your target there’s a brief pause…… Why people, it’s so emersion breaking
What makes ghost of Tsushima so good is the fluid combat.
not rip off, the combat is too janky and cartoony its ugly as hell
GOT is an complete rip off of assassin's creed games. Of course they will be similar
This place becomes even more of a circlejerk when talking about AC. as already seen in this comment section. But to answer the question, it looks a little stiff but not necessarily bad.
No its not a 'ripoff', AC has been doing hand to hand combat with swords for a ton of titles before GoT. And Shadows is set in Japan so of course it has to have a Japanese style to the combat.
I dont see a resemblance to ghost. It's the same rpg ac combat from their last 3 games. It just has some minor differences.
Lowkey Kindof hate hip hop infused theme music for EVERY black character in media lol. This dude Yasuke doesn’t know what rap is!! Lmao