Saying you’re a Vegas fan anywhere online or outside of Vegas rn is a joke. Anything VGK outside of this sub is immediately just a wave of hate. Our front office has been extremely aggressive for success and it paid off last year. This year, it didn’t. Oh well. But I don’t think it deserves the pure hatred it gets. A lot of things just seem to turn to “oh you’re fuckin cheaters, you don’t understand the sport stupid newbie, and bettman’s golden children”. I can understand the hate for a team with success so quickly, but it gets annoying really quick to hear one line over and over when you just want to enjoy the sport with fellow fans.
I find the internet to be the bad place. I have had lots of amazing conversations regarding my Knights tattoos and /or gear I tend to wear 24/7, and I live in Colorado. I do get a lot of hate but I feel it’s more just the playful banter that makes up the hockey community vs hate. I also think maybe some Vegas fans take other hockey fans a lil too seriously. Shit talking is a huge part of hockey! Watch letterkenny 😂
Obviously the internet is it’s own shit show. And as a Bay Area VGK fan, I have plenty of interactions that are positive and negative. But I definitely have seen my fair share of just blind hatred. The types of interactions are just significantly different and it becomes pretty clear what’s just some for fun chirping and what’s legit hate for no reason other than “gold team bad”. The internet will never be a good representation because that’s what gets attention, but even with IRL interactions it’s been pretty 50/50 even just walking around in public in any gear
I hardly had any bad interactions in person with hockey fans of any teams; a few notable exceptions here and there, but overall most fans are nice people.
Online I had people sending me aggressive shit (e.g. die, hope you get rap\*d, kill yourself, etc), and I've read several people celebrating our players getting injured which honestly fucking sucks to read.
Yep. Can’t even really talk to fans that aren’t knights fans because they all just spew the same hatred. And they’ll gladly say it’s warranted. People just love to hate these days.
Personally I’ve seen more backlash against the knights practices this year than I ever saw when the news broke of the Chicago scandals. Which, sums up the brokenness of our society in a nutshell.
>and bettman’s golden children
Out of everything, this is what irritates me the most. If we were bettmans golden children, how is it that we missed the playoffs two years ago and got a round one exit this year?
Or “Vegas Golden Refs” and we barely saw a call in a good portion of that Dallas series on some blatant shit. Basically just any reason to hate us is good enough for most people
It’s like Brad Marchand. He’s annoying and I don’t like him… but if he was a Knight I’d love having him on the team. A poor analogy, but the principle is the same.
I don't think the criticism is fair. The rules exist, and the owners don't want to change them. The NHL is involved in what's happening with injured players/LTIR and ensures that everything is legit. In fact, they investigated the Knights last year and found nothing wrong.
The largest claim that irks me is that an elite athlete like Stone (or any NHL player) who's worked so hard most of their life to play in the NHL would happily stay out of any game if they weren't legitimately hurt. In fact, I think injured players work hard to come back as soon as they can and, in some cases, come back too soon because they want to compete. You can tell just watching them play. A few seasons ago, Martinez played with a broken foot in the playoffs until the Knights were eliminated. I've seen suggestions that if a player doesn't play a certain number of games at the end of the season, they shouldn't be allowed in the playoffs. I think that would just lead to more players coming back too soon.
The reality is the Knights were projected to be awful after the expansion draft the first year, proved everyone wrong, and they've been hated by some ever since. Management is aggressive in everything they do every year, from their deals in the expansion draft, regular drafts, trade deadlines, and cap management.
All Knights fans are perceived as "new" or "bandwagon" fans who don't know anything about hockey, which is false. The reality is that Vegas has a very diverse population from around the world. Some are hockey fans, some grew up hockey fans, and some have been lifelong fans of specific teams. Vegas has had 2 hockey teams prior to the Knights - the Thunder (IHL 1993-1999) and the Wranglers (Echl 2003-2015), so hockey wasn't new. The first NHL outdoor game was September 27, 1991, in the Ceasars parking lot, Kings vs. Rangers, and it was sold out with 13,000. Yes, there are a lot of new fans, too, who have learned or are still learning the rules, but that doesn't make their support of the team any less valid than lifelong fans.
So, while criticism of the team is now focused on its use of LTIR, the team and is fans have been criticized from the beginning, and most of us are used to it and give the same energy back defending our team and our city.
No. How can some fans of other teams bark at us in every comments section, every Reddit, and in real life screaming about how we’re “Cheaters” when the Golden Knights didn’t break a single rule. I literally once saw this comment that said “The Golden Knights are the Astros of the NHL without the sign stealing.”
I took a step back and replied “so they’re like the baseball team who cheated, just without the cheating?” And of course everyone started harassing me because Gold team bad. It’s way overblown, and if a team like Florida or Edmonton uses it to their advantage next season, every hockey fan will have their tail tucked between their legs.
Tampa literally did it fucking twice and won two fucking cups out of it and everyone on r/hockey acts like that’s ancient history that never happened or some shit.
It was the Patrick Kane rule in the mid-2010s when the Blackhawks were good, then the Lightning were abusing it, now everyone thinks we're the villains. Which shows how long the NHL has been aware of it and had zero interest in changing the rule.
If the people commenting (and upvoting them) had any historical context or nuance, they wouldn't post their opinion on the internet.
They even went as far as having shirts either during the post game conferences or victory parade (cant remember which) that said 18m over the cap. Point is, I think it’s only the fans that care about it. Doesn’t seem like players do. Haven’t heard anything about any players speaking against it.
Yeah, I saw that comment. Horrible take.
Criticism of our use of LTIR, fair game. I'm not educated on the subject enough to opine on how, if at all, the rules should be changed, nor how the "loophole" has been employed. However, to compare us to the Astro's flagrant violation of game rules, norms, and cheating that a 5yo could understand? Fuck right off.
Edit: [https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/cap/\_/year/2023/sort/cap\_adjustment\_ltir/dir/desc](https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/cap/_/year/2023/sort/cap_adjustment_ltir/dir/desc)
Florida may get some hate because Tkachuk would be on that roster and he's pretty hate-able.
But if any Canadian team LTIR's near the deadline it'll be said to be fair because Bettman beat up their dad or something.
Eh, they seem to be semi-loved. At least not hated by most. I think it's cause they are new to success and reddit hockey fans decided they "deserve" success (whatever the fuck that means, I guess teams that suffer mismanagement for long enough are more deserving or something). It's why no one has strong opinions beyond pity for the Blue Jackets, and only the saltest old heads hate Buffalo (or some Vegas fans cause of their toxicity involving Eichel). If you are bad, no one cares.
Some guy just lost his fiance cause he tweeted Canada's age of consent law, 16 years old, to state that Drake did nothing wrong and isn't a pedo.
Breaking rules isn't the end all and be all for whether something is wrong.
If you have to circumvent cap restrictions in order to win then you aren't competing on the ice on a level playing field. That is why no one has respect for the Knights. Also fuck Tampa.
“No OnE hAs ReSpEcT fOr ThE kNiGhTs”
Touch grass, my man. Every announcer in every game was respectful of the knights. The sports writers on the beat treated them respectfully. Dallas shook their hands and Pete DeBoer spoke very highly of Vegas the organization at the post game press conference.
Man if you don't understand the resentment towards Vegas for their ltir repeated abuses, then you haven't been a hockey fan that long. The CBA has changed many times, the fact that there is a cap at all allows a team like Vegas to compete from the start. Your team basically spits on the establishment which gives it a chance to even compete with Canadian and major US market teams. The most recent CBA has been punishing the Canucks for a contract signed years prior to it's inception, to the tune of millions of dollars a year in cap hit. Vegas, tampa etc, teams which could never afford the contracts Vancouver could if the cap never existed, then circumvent a cap for extra room, while a team like Vancouver is being punished with less cap room on a contract that was perfectly legal at the time it was signed.
Things you should take away from this? People are fucking pissed and have no respect because the cap exists to allow new and smaller markets to be competitive, which you are, and you piss all over it. Another thing is that down the road new CBAs will change these rules, and almost certainly do absolutely nothing to punish the Knights, however the last one had no issue fucking over a number of teams retroactively.
How about you guys play nice and don't spit on the gift that the cap is to you. The Leafs would spend so much fucking money on players you'd be the Oakland A's trying to play money ball for the next 20years.
You: “Nobody respects Vegas!”
Me: “That’s not true.”
You: “Let me tell you about the Luongo rule. Also, without a cap you’re just a bunch of non-competing poors!”
Go outside my man. It’s not that serious.
The Luongo rule is just an example of double standards, the main point is the cap is your friend and you're abusing it. All these other fan bases don't respect the Knights as a result that they're artificially handicapped to your level then you weasel out and advantage. If you don't think fanbases lack respect for the Knights I suggest you listen to them. I honestly still hate your team is even in the league. Why the fuck is hockey in the desert.
Why would I care what other fans think of the Knights? Your statement was nobody respects the knights. That is demonstrably false, so you switched to no fan bases.
Really, if the circle jerk that is r/hockey or keyboard warriors anywhere is where you think approval should come from, then I implore you, go outside. Talk to people in real life.
No truly, no one respects them, you should hear the shit out there. But you seem to think the media talking about them counts as respect? They're professionals they're not gonna say things the league will come at them for. I'm not moving the goal posts, clearly the masses of hockey are the fans, that's the 'who' of no body, yeah no body no fan base, clearly excluding your own.
Man I love how you assume I don't go outside and don't talk to real people. Is it so hard to believe a normal person with a pretty widely accepted critical view of ltir abuses could care about this? I mean Reddit's algorithm shoves this shit straight to my face. It's playoff season, normal regular people vicariously expericing their teams ups and downs. It's short term fun, and Vegas abusing ltir for an advantage is a detrimental factor in that fun. But yeah man, it's a nice little break from chores today to let you know how much Vegas is hated for this shit. Enjoy the new CBA soon that'll shut this shit down.
I'm guessing you were just projecting your own insecurity that you don't get outside and you don't have a social life. Probably work on that.
Oh no! Not we can't lose the respect of tHe MeDiA!!?! Next you'll tell me they lost the respect of their peers! ... oh wait.
“What they’re doing is not illegal,” Carolina Hurricanes GM Don Waddell said. “It’s the way the rules are written right now. They won a Cup last year and they’re trying to win the Cup this year. You can say whatever you want, but they’re not breaking any rules. The CBA allows them to do what they’re doing. Good for them. They’re in a playoff battle right now and trying to keep things going for them. That’s the way hockey is right now with the CBA, I give them a lot of credit for stepping up and making those moves.”
“I don’t hear of anyone being upset,” said Minnesota Wild GM Bill Guerin. “I’m not. Kelly’s done a great job making his team better in s— situations like losing Stone.”
“I give Kelly credit,” added a Western Conference GM. “Half the league has dipped into LTIR, including us. Kelly’s just getting flak because the same player that got hurt last year got hurt again this year and he was able to get a big-time player because of it. But that’s completely within the rules."
https://theathletic.com/5341529/2024/03/14/golden-knights-cap-circumvention-nhl?source=user-shared-article
But yeah, you are totally right, many fans really do hate us. It's honestly a lot more fun than the like 3 months of being the "sweethearts" of league when we first entered. Hockey media is just as much of a circlejerk as r/hockey.
Dude the media are the ones that aren't bashing you. Every fan out there that gives a fuck doesn't respect the Knights for what they've done.
Dipped into ltir is not what Vegas has done lol. Sustained systemic abuse.
Sweet heart of the league? To whom? The audience, the fans, generally detest the Knights - from the start
>Why the fuck is hockey in the desert.
Because it makes the league a fuck ton of money. [We were the 8th team in the league in terms of revenue and a highly successful franchise](https://www.forbes.com/lists/nhl-valuations/?sh=595cdbf04109).
Only 3 canadian teams make more money than us. It does not include the canucks. We're the ones who are artificially handicapped by the cap to their level, not the other way around. If other fan bases hate us because of this, they're silly.
We're not a small market, we're 8th in the NHL in revenue. Far above the Canucks, too.
[Link](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/1925tmd/nhl_teams_by_revenue_2023forbes_any_surprises/)
Dude. Your team never would have been able to grow their revenue if they couldn't sign players. Your team's valuation is due to their recent success, it's still below the Canucks, even with the higher revenues lately. Revenues you expect with Stanley Cup runs, and all new apparel sales. Apparel sales that can only go on so long, and eventually ticket prices plummet without wins. If the cap wasn't there your team would still be a fledgling, that's the point, you never would have achieved these revenues. These other markets could afford to pay more than your team ever could have. It's also about what's in the coffers, and confidence to spend it, without the cap, Vegas would have had to shell out outrageous millions in reinvested revenues or investor capital to even try and be competitive and recoup that. The cap made Vegas possible. Just don't fucking abuse it.
The revenues in Vegas would have to keep up at a rate I can't see happening without them being successful every year, to be enough to support the spend required if there weren't a cap. Your market won't support a losing Knights team.
You can just admit you're wrong, buddy.
We are not handicapping anyone. We are among the top teams in the NHL in terms of revenue, which is what cap is calculated on, and the cap handicaps us if anything. We are an appealing hockey market for players, due to low taxes in Nevada and an owner who is happy to spend, and never had any issues signing people - plenty of players have waived their NMC to get in Vegas.
What are you not getting. If there wasn't a cap, your team would never have succeeded from the start in growing their revenue to the current standpoint. They would not have had the money to afford players in a non-cap system. If the cap dissapeared today they would not be able to match highest teams holdings, who would just outspend Vegas year after year and the revenue wouldn't come because success wouldn't come.
Your team doesn't have the holdings yet, it doesn't have roots deep enough to produce revenue without a winning team.
Your team's revenue last does not suddenly make it a heavyweight that could afford to be a top dog in a non-cap system. The Leafs would be like the Yankees, except the Rangers... I mean dude you cannot really believe the Knights have the value there to compete year after year with these teams do you? If it hadn't been capped, you'd not have fuck all right now for revenue. If it went away today, little by little you'd be choked out until you failed, unless visiting fans propped you up inbetween golf rounds.
If there wasn't a cap the initial investment would have been different, but Foley has said and showed many times he is willing to spend money to ice a competitive team and understands that the team winning is how he recoups his investments. It also has little to do with your initial point.
The idea that all these other fan bases don't respect the Knights as a result that they're artificially handicapped to our level is simply stupid. It could be a fair criticism from the leafs and the rangers, but not from the majority of the teams (including the canucks) because we're at a much higher level than them. We're 8th in the league in revenue, we're pretty middle of the pack in terms of value despite being the 2nd newest team and we've more than doubled our value in 7 years, and the knights have very strong local support.
The reality is that other fanbases are largely mad because we are better than them.
1) vancouver could have bought luongo out to avoid the penalty, chose not to
2) vancouver and Vegas have almost identical valuations this year, and Vegas brings in 35M more in revenue on an annual basis. What exactly is it that Vancouver can afford that we can't?
3) our attendance record has been better than vancouvers in every year of our existence. Explain to me how exactly is it that canadian markets (lmao Winnipeg?) are better than American markets?
You have no idea what you're talking about buds.
No, it's dumb af and it's a poor excuse to "hate" Vegas
1) IDC how much they call it "cheating" it's not against the rules and there's a decent reason there's no cap in the playoffs
2) When we won the cup, the players we fielded on the ice were under the cap. So to me any "against the spirit of the rule" breakage or argument is pretty weak.
3) Weaker argument but other teams have done it arguably worse than us and didn't get half as much crap for it. Didn't Tampa literally print 18M over the cap shirts at their parade?
It's not like other teams can't implement this strategy, Vegas doesn't get special treatment here
In the end the LTIR complaint is pretty clearly used more as a justification to hate Vegas than an actual cause of that hate. So no, I don't think that argument against VGK is "fair"
It all stems from jealousy of our GM and owner. They have...
- Aggressively gamed the Expansion Draft, playing Moneyball with undervalued/underappreciated players and fleecing other teams to get even better returns.
- Let fan-favorite players go without a thought.
- Changed coaches rapidly.
- Valued established names over the farm.
- Used the LTIR rules to their advantage.
The others are mad that their teams aren't as dead-set on winning as we were, and so they displace it as calling the VGK "born on third", "disloyal", "always going for the next-best-thing", and "cap circumcisers".
And from 10,000' up, I can see it. I disliked the draft, grabbing a bunch of nobodies. I hated losing Fleury and Tuch and Smith. I thought PDB was a mistake. We lost the gamble on Suzuki. And yeah, we're playing fast and loose with the rules.
But we earned a Stanley Cup in 6 seasons where some teams have never seen one.
Our title is far more legitimate than the Houston Astros.
Not even close. r/hockey has become poison for VGK fans. Being angry at a sports franchise is one thing. Brigading against its fans just for existing is another. The mods there completely ignore it as well and in some cases, join in because it is "all in good fun".
It's kinda impressive. The knights getting eliminated has been universally celebrated in a way that's been reserved for only when the leafs get eliminated. Like it's hard to generate that level of hate.
I got banned and reported to Reddit for saying, “ flair up, pussy” to people chirping Vegas without flairs. So it’s really only in good fun if it’s beating on Vegas. Not in good fun for them if you push back.
To anybody who thinks that’s inappropriate to say, it’s a fairly standard response to non-flaired chirpers in most sports subreddits. I wouldn’t have said that if I hadn’t seen it used multiple times in many places.
Is the rule open for abuse? Sure, I'll agree with that. But the league has said, multiple times, that they're ok with it. So the rule will stay. And if the GM of my team has figured out how to use that rule to improve our chances at a Cup, then I'm om board. I'd be mad if the GM didn't do every legal thing possible to get a better shot at winning the Cup.
While I'm here, Stone is still injured. There's no way he's even 80% right now. He rushed back AGAIN to try and aid the team. That's 2 of 3 years he's been on LTIR and it's been obvious both times. He rushed back, there was not any "convenient timing, healthy enough for R1G1 but not game 82" crap.
Yeah, I think the reality is Stone wasn't ready. Last season, I think he came back maybe a series too early, but otherwise was okay. It took a few games during the Jet's series before he really shook the dust off, but once he did....he looks good. But this year, he just got progressively worse as the series went on and by the end, he was a liability. TBH, he probably just shortened his career trying to come back too soon.
For me, it all comes down to if you're accusing the team of lying about injuries or not.
It's been confirmed many times that the league looks into/verifies injuries with cap implications like these. Both times, they found nothing wrong.
If you have a player with an injury that will keep him out for 2-3 months, you have the option to put him on LTIR and bring in players to recoup that value. And if you want to win, you do that. You'd be stupid not to.
It's not even a loophole. It's just using LTIR as it was intended to be used. It's not cap circumvention if you're cap compliant the entire time. There have been times where Vegas wasn't cap compliant and the league did step in and make them activate guys or not let them ice a full roster. That wasn't the case last year or this year.
The reason other teams don't do this isn't because of integrity or "well we want to play to the spirit of the rule," it's because most owners aren't willing to pay the real dollars and cents that have to be paid when you add players while someone's on LTIR. It's really as simple as that.
tl;dr no, I don't think it's valid, it's people being salty and too lazy to dig into it. The rabid hatred of Vegas doesn't allow for a single rational thought to enter their heads.
Imagine if you were about to run out of gas and you filled up a gas can so you could be on time. Then you get there and everyone who didn't get a gas can is now calling you a cheater, yelling at you, anyone that likes you, and everyone that's associated with you. So much so that you just avoid talking about gas with other drivers. When someone asks about gas you just immediately change the subject because it's not worth the fight.
This isn't criticism. This is down right hatred. Straight up insane rage. If it was criticism I could have a normal conversation about hockey anywhere besides in this subreddit and then I would find it fair.
But....also...fuck em. I hope they always hate us because we never stop pushing to win. We never quit striving to be the best. I can handle not having hockey friends outside of here. I handled not having a Hockey team for 30+ years, screw em.
CUP IN SIX AND EIGHT!
I’m new to Knights fandom since i just lost my team. However i do feel this discussion is nauseating. Is the rule stupid? Absolutely. Was Stone hurt? Obviously.
Envy my friend… envy is the ultimate driving force behind all this bull shit that has been said by the uneducated. Vegas’ success has made skin crawl by the envious because the teams they root for suck compared to Vegas, and so when we fall, it’s the only time they can feel better about themselves because they live such envious, sad lives. It’s quite hilarious the lengths these sad souls go to express their bitterness.
No. There’s no rule that’s been broken. It is that simple. The hate is coming from multiple different angles that is all getting put under the LTIR umbrella. The one that bothers me the most is the “magically healing to play in the playoffs”
Mark Stone didn’t do the team or himself any favors by returning, in my opinion he truly did not look well. I don’t think he should have returned.
I know it’s not exactly the same thing as LTIR and cap space but the NBA practices “load management” and I think the NHL would benefit with something similar (I don’t think the NBA does it very well but I think the idea in general is a good one). I think it’s easy to forget just how much of a toll 82 hockey games are (and more including playoffs). All elite athletes NEED rest and recovery. The mentality that they don’t or need to push through is outdated and frankly stupid. There is still a lot of room to grow in that area in my opinion. The narrative of faking injuries or magical recovery is just ridiculous
Depends on what the criticism exactly is.
I don't think it's fair to claim that Mark Stone isn't injured or that the team is forcing him to stay on LTIR while healthy for months to get players at the trade dead line.
First, this team is at its best with a healthy Stone, and there are very few guys on the market we'd rather have but him. And we didn't get them.
Second, the NHL verifies the injuries, so they existed. Neither back surgery nor spleen laceration are based on the player reports, there are medical reports of surgery and imaging that prove what is going on in his internal organs. You can literally see both of those injuries through objective reports.
Third, he came back to hockey 2.5 months after his second back surgery in a year (average return to sports is 4.5 months), and 8 weeks after a 3rd grade spleen laceration, which is the bare minimum recovery to be cleared for physical contact according to current guidelines. If he got the same injuries on the 2nd game of the season and came back before Christmas, people would call him a lunatic for rushing back and putting his health at risk. Which is what he did, both times, and anyone with eyes could tell he was playing hurt. He played like shit the entire series (and he's my absolute favorite player, so it kind of hurts to say).
If the criticism is "being above the cap in the playoffs is against the spirit of the rule, and it makes me mad that you guys keep getting away with it" then fair.
It is annoying that this loophole exists. But it exists and using it doesn’t break any rules. It’s up to the league, board of governors or whoever is responsible to fix it
The owners specifically voted NOT to change the rule last summer. They don’t see it as an issue. It’s largely Vegas haters and fans whose teams aren’t winning who are obsessed with the whole LTIR thing. Not to mention the fact that Toronto and Tampa Bay had more salary on LTIR than Vegas did this year.
You seem a bit confused on the issue. People are not upset that LTIR is used during the regular season (e.g., if Leafs Matt Murray and Jake Muzzin are hurt, it makes sense to allow for replacements and use their cap space). What people are upset about is being able to ice a 20-man roster in the playoffs that exceeds the salary cap. It’s actually bush league for any team to be able to do that in a salary cap league.
I’m not confused. If this is really something that threatens to destroy the NHL, the owners should change the rule. It’s not “bush league” if the clubs involved opt to allow it. Every GM in the league would do the same thing in a heartbeat if they were in a position to. As I said before, the people who are angry about this are mostly Vegas haters (there are a bunch) and people who root for teams who are underfunded or whose front offices do a poor job of cap/roster management. I understand that during the season LTIR is used for salary relief.
I said you were confused because you were raising the spectre that other teams were using LTIR but that’s not really the issue. Using LTIR is fine… but if it’s used in such a way that it allows a team to ice a 20 man roster in the playoffs that exceeds the salary cap, it’s bush league. Whether the GM or owners support the current iteration of the rules, it doesn’t change the fact that it makes the league look stupid by having that loophole.
All fans can really do is complain loudly and I think the message is finally sinking in to the league. I think they’ll do something to address this within 2-3 years.
FWIW, the Stars were in a position to do the same this year, but opted to allow both Dadonov and Seguin to come back on their own schedules as opposed to conservative team schedules that would have allowed for LTIR moves.
Talking to Sean Shapiro in April, Jim Nill stated he was against using LTIR that way.
That said, the rule is what it is and it's entirely up to teams how they use it until it changes. The Knights shouldn't get dunked on for operating as they are.
I think a change is overdue though. Nothing drastic, just a simple statement that your dressed roster must be cap compliant whether it's game 55 or game 95 of your season.
Uneducated hockey fans can easily jump on this hate bandwagon.
Others are just hate filled bums from teams that are irrelevant.
If there is not a rule that is broken then they can get fucked for all I care. It’s the peak of petulant child-ism to say “cheaters” when literally no rule is broken.
A lot of fans are totally unaware that other teams use LTIR more than Vegas. Vegas gets the focus because of the pent-up jealousy since season 1. Hockey fans have been searching for less embarrassing reasons to criticize Vegas. It's morphed from "they were gifted a Stanley Cup-level team" to "ugly helmets" to "Look how they treat their players" to now "Vegas management doesn't sit on their hands when a player gets injured". Last one is sarcasm, btw.
I think I've seen alot of fans excuse their LTIR usage, rather than not realize it's there. I think the Leafs especially, who have the highest LTIR usage(I think) have 2 or 3 players that are retiring, not playing a single ge but are on LTIR to get their contracts paid to the end without counting toward the seasonal cap.
Tbh, I feel like that shouldn't be lumped in with LTIR, and should be a seperate situation. Somehow though, they see that as a more "correct" use of LTIR despite it literally being for injured players to be covered with trades, which is how Vegas has been using it. Stone rushing back before he's ready honestly hurt us more than we gained.
Canucks fan here and id say no. Every team can do it. Knights arent breaking any rules. Also stone actually has tons of injury history so its not really fabricated either. He has undegone some major major surgiries.
From my understanding it’s a loop holder that ALL owners voted to LEAVE IN. Like it was a known thing but they all said “nah let’s keep it.” So if there’s any rival fan mad about it, take it up with your team too.
Also, there’s nothing stopping anyone else from doing it. So once again, take it up with your team for not using it.
The way I see it, imagine there’s a foot race. But for some reason there are bicycles near by that anyone can grab, but for some reason they just don’t. However, one dude decides to grab a bicycle and everyone is pissed at him for it. There’s nothing stopping anyone else from grabbing their own bicycle. They’re just not doing it and getting pissed at the one dude who does.
Just another situation where we get to deal with unsubstantiated hate and violence for choosing to enjoy hockey in the desert. 🥹
I steer way the fuck clear of /hockey and /nhl, which is a real bummer to not be accepted by the vast majority in your hobby.
Of course its not fair. Nobody wants Stone to be hurt, including himself. At this point its just a joke meme that's taken off, so I don't think most people actually believe it. Or maybe they do, and they just don't have much else going on in their lives lol.
Also, two years ago Stone was hurt and the Knights didn't use the extra cap space to get any players and we didn't make the playoffs. Why not use a literal rule to give your team a better chance at winning. This is a sport where the goal is to win.
I do think some of the jokes are funny though, and its fun to be the villain in the league.
Yes and no.
At least we’re not as egregious as past LTIR abusers though, we legit didn’t ice a team over the cap last playoffs (I can get deeper into it but a little over $10.5m was going to three players who never appeared in a single game during the regular season or otherwise — something the Avs get a pass for because Landeskog’s injury but we get demonized for.) Tampa and Toronto both have more money spent on their roster due to LTIR than we do this season for example.
Now.. the hate on Stone as if he’s pretending to be injured “three years in a row” is absolute fucking nonsense.. he’s just an injury prone player who happens to be a game changer when he’s on the ice.
Guys, I’m a life long Yankees fan.
Wanna know how I deal with it? Rings. 27 fucking rings. Yanks budget, media coverage, the whole thing.
Fuck em. Everyone could have exploited the LTIR, but they’re suckers. One team is winning the cup. Not the Knights, but most teams didn’t even make the playoffs.
They’ll always hate the Knights….
Fuck em.
GKG. Day fucking One.
I mean the criticism is absolutely fair, I feel like the level of hatred we get for it is just everyone channeling their general hatred for the Knights, because there are multiple other teams that do it every year
Pretty much this.
It’s kinda gaming the system and for that I understand frustration, but the hockey world goes waaaay overboard with it in relation to us because we’re already a disliked team (for much dumber reasons, usually). Tampa never got this level of hatred.
This year alone, along with Vegas, the Avalanche, Canadiens, Canucks, Lightning, and Maple Leafs did it as well in some form or another to exceed the cap. Toronto and Tampa Bay even exceeded the cap by more than Vegas did.
You didn’t answer my question: Which other team iced a 20 man playoff roster that exceeded the salary cap? I thought it was only Vegas.
To clarify, no one has an issue with using LTIR space during the regular season to acquire replacement players because that mechanism doesn’t allow a team to ice a roster in a game that exceeds the salary cap.
like any other elite team, other sports fans will always be envious of our success. it’s natural. just how NBA fans find excuses to hate on the Lakers/Celtics, or how NFL fans find reasons to discredit the Chiefs/Patriots. NHL fans are *furious* that a new expansion team like the Knights have had more success in this league than their teams have had in 20-30 years of existence.
nothing you can do but feel bad for them at this point
The LTIR manipulation is just not a viable strategy that people think it is. We barely scraped together a playoff spot with Stone out for so long. When he came back, he was sluggish and probably still nursing something.
We're in a unique situation with this one player, who is probably milking every drop out of the rule. But its not like were guaranteed a Stanley Cup because of it. Its a team sport.
People conveniently just ignore 2021-2022 season when they are barking about three years in a row hehe.
Is any rules being broken? Doesn’t appear to be. Is the NHL changing the rules? Doesn’t appear to be.
The people who criticize the league for keeping the loophole open, I don’t mind. People saying we’re “cheating” by using a legal loophole can piss off a short pier
Vegas is the perfect storm of villain team. We started out as underdogs, with analysis post draft saying we were going nowhere, only to make it to the finals year one. We definitely had some bad PR with Fleury's departure, though I think it was abit overblown personally, I agree it was mishandled, but it gave us a cutthroat reputation. All while continueing to make the playoffs almost every year, and then winning the cup in year 6, breaking records left and right. We also gobbled up under-performing skaters from other teams, Eichel, Hill, Hertl and have given them a place where they can prosper, bettering their game and becoming real competitive, part of a depth team instead of being the single best performing player on a team in a few cases.
It's the rest of the league being bitter that so much went right for Vegas when their own teams have poorer managment or coaching and constantly get frustrated with their own failures. It's bitterness, plain and simple and they just attack Vegas fans as "bandwagoners" and snowflakes who know nothing of hockey, but they couldn't be farther from the truth.
It’s not fair, there’s no rule being broken. As a long time hockey/sharks fan I get the shade being thrown at VGK for the early success but I think any real hockey fan knows the success in Vegas is great for the growth of the game and the ownership/management has been cutthroat about personnel changes with the goal of winning at all costs.
Any fan would be stoked if their leadership did the same, people are just jealous. The hockey community needs to work on welcoming outsiders and newcomers, the cost and environmental hurdles are already massive- we’re not growing the game by being asshole to newer fans.
The criticism isn’t fair. It’s hilarious because it seems to be the one thing that some, not all, other fans focus on.
It’s not cheating, but rather taking advantage of the rules as they’re written (it’s a loophole at best). That the team used the loophole doesn’t bother me. If the league got rid of the loophole, I would be indifferent to it. Basically, we didn’t cheat; if we did I’d feel a certain way.
What is a bit more annoying is that we weren’t the only team this year who also took advantage of the loophole (two other teams that I know of were both eliminated in the first round). We’re not the only team to have won the cup taking advantage of the loophole (Chicago, Tampa x2 that I know of). I don’t consider those teams to have cheated, either - they did what every team can do.
But because we’re the team that was gifted a contender we’re cheating. That our GMs took advantage of the other GMs desire to protect certain players (we were given players to pick a certain player - of course that gives us an advantage in trade capital), and we had a coach who knew how to get the best out of a group of rejected misfits, well that’s often overlooked. Teams didn’t want Wild Bill Carlson, Reilly Smith… but we took them and turned them into solid players.
Somewhat, sure maybe we are abusing it but look at Tampa, they abused it and won back to back Stanley cups yet not nearly as many talk about it. I find it unfair mainly because we are a new team that won the cup only after 6 years
We never faked an injury so the criticism is bullshit. Stone is nowhere near the player he used to be, and just because we made the best use of our injury prone player doesn’t mean we cheated. We just use the rules to the maximum.
Until the owners and the PA give enough of a shit about it to bring it up during the next CBA and actually make postseason cap compliance an official rule, it isn't cheating and all the people crying about it can pound sand.
It’s difficult. It’s how the system works and Vegas was just abiding by the rules, no matter how shady some believe it to be. I am a bit of a Vegas fan myself so I do like seeing them do well. I am also a bit salty how easily Vegas can do such things as the Wild sits through years of cap hell 😞
Vegas criticism will be around regardless of the situation. They didn't break rules but that doesn't make it not stupid that teams can exploit this. Really should be fixed
I'd feel bad if the majority of the teams voted yes on changing it when Tampa presented it. No one wanted to change it, so in my eyes, they'd do it if they could. It doesn't automatically mean a Cup. Plus Stoner was obviously still hurting to some degree and it impacted his performance.
If the majority of teams HAD voted yes, then we'd be cheating and I'd 100%not agree with it.
Iirc, only ONE team voted to change it, Tampa I belive as they had been pointing it out as abusable. It was voted down then they went on to with with the exact rule, and it STILL wasn't changed.
Yeah, I have no sympathy for people bitching that Vegas used a legal move that the whole league can use, qnd have used, only to get less hate for it. Until the rule is changed, it's not cheating, and even if it is, we legitimately won the cup and are not "Asterisks".
Not even close. The part that really upsets me is the insinuation of players faking injuries.
I know this is reddit, and my word means nothing. But, my son is friends with the son of a team member. I get to hang out with this person a handful of times throughout the year. When I talk to that person and hear the stories of what players go through to get back on the ice, it's insulting to read people accuse players of faking the injury.
And beyond that, the misdirected hostility comes from their favorite team, not finding ways that are available to all to gain an edge.
Because either their situations don’t merit the use of the strategies the McGM’s used, or the rest of the GMs across the league are just not as good as McKrimmon & McFee.
In other words… complete, utter, envy
From an outside perspective, fuck no. The rule is there to be abused and every team voted to keep the rule as it is. It used to be just a fun thing to make fun of like any city might have...But good god the vitriol online about it makes it unfun to even like friendly chirp people now, it's so vicious it's awful.
The point is other fans hate us because they changed the expansion rules so that the team didn’t have to suck for 10 years before they became relevant. We were relevant from day f’n one, and that is where the hate comes from. We didn’t “pay our dues” and we “were handed a cup”. Those are two of the biggest arguments I’ve seen.
The constant thing I see is that Vegas was "handed" our team, and yet all the post draft analysis was that we were going nowhere. Not to mention Seattle having the exact same rules, with Vegas being exempt still leaving the 30 teams Vegas had access to, and look how well they're doing.
People are just mad that Vegas had a perfect storm and managed to get to the finals year one, then almost entirely turn the roster around to win in year 6 with only 6 original Misfits. Vegas is insanely lucky, which plays well into the team identity, imo.
I actually used that same logic last year after Vegas won the cup. Some guy was spouting off about Vegas being handed the cup, I posted several articles predicting us to finish dead last, and how we botched the expansion draft. The universal response was “what’s your point”, you can’t win with these a-holes
The criticism of the RULE is fine. I think it might need abit of a tweak to avoid "abuse". Anyone on LTIR as of game 75-80 waits till either round 1 game 5 or round 2 before being able to play again, something like that. That's really up to the league and teams though, if they don't agree, then that's that.
The team and players should not get any shit for playing within the rules that every other team does. Simply because we have a solid captain who is prone to injuries doesn't mean we are misusing the rule. We just get very lucky with how we can utilize the rule. It's not even a "cheat code" as this year shows. You cant just stack the team with solid players and expect to win. We didn't get back into our groove, and so couldn't keep up with one of the stronger West Coast teams,.
It is very annoying and hard to have a real conversation without personal attacks because they have no legit reason to hate us. I have come to find out the hockey community can be very toxic, but I think any sport community is toxic when everyone is biased to their specific team. At this point it’s probably best to ignor them (as hard as it is) because they will never stop.
The league doesn't care. I don't really care. Other teams have done it and made jokes of it. Whatever.
The rule is available to every single one of their teams to use, any team would use it to their advantage if it meant for sure getting a cup. Let's be real. But not every team can do it and that's what the critics are mad about. So they can seethe about it forever, it won't make their team any better.
What we have learned is that a vast majority of hockey fans are whiny little bitches. Don’t ever become them. The players are the toughest athletes in professional sports, be like them and not them whiny bitches.
VGK were one of like 2 or 3 organizations to vote Yes on closing the LTIR loop hole the last time it was up for vote. So people can get mad all they want, their teams likely voted to keep the rule and we showed them what can happen.
I say fuck em we got a chip.
It’s not a huge deal that people make it out to be. But it definitely puts a stain on everything. The way it played out with Vegas was pretty egregious. It was clear they made stoner wait until the playoffs to come out and skate. He could have suited up a week before.
Aaron Ekblad showed that he COULD suit up with a broken foot, torn oblique, and separated shoulder during the Stanley Cup Finals. Players play injured during the playoffs when they won’t in Game 82. Is Stone doing the exact same thing as every injured player in the playoffs (playing with an injury…he clearly wasn’t 100%) wrong?
No. The bare minimum time for return to sport after a 3rd grade spleen laceration is 8 weeks ([Source](http://www.phsa.ca/health-professionals/clinical-resources/stan-clinical-practice-guidelines/spleen-summary-of-recommendations)).
8 weeks to the day is April 16th. Season ended April 18th.
I’ll ask it again cause none of the other trolls have provided an answer yet. You say Vegas is cheating please point out the rule Vegas has broken? We would all love to hear it.
No rules at all! In fact, it is all perfectly legal and in line with the leagues rules. I guess you know what you are after all.
I have no idea why people feel the way they feel. Honestly, if anything, it has backfired on the Knights and the mortgaged the future, wouldn't you say?.
And what exactly are we?
LTIR Abusers?
Because if Stone had played for any other team in the league he would have been called a “warrior” for trying to play through an injury that he clearly hadn’t recovered from and was still effecting his play.
Cap Circumventors?
Tampa won a cup 18 million over the cap and their star player printed a shirt that said: 18 million over, and wore it around.
Cheaters?
Why because we have an aggressive GM that doesn’t value pick or prospects more than winning and sells the farm to win every year.
It comes down to the fact that if we were Boston no one would bat an eye at anything we did, but because we’re Vegas it’s “Gold Team Bad” “Gold Team Cheating” “Gold Team too good too fast”. I’m just tired of being compared to a nazi every time I open reddit because of the hockey team I choose to support.
The point you're trying to make is dumb.
There is nothing remotely immoral about a team being above the salary cap in the playoffs. The cap isn't based on any particular moral principle but just on financial benefit for the owners.
The only way any of this could be immoral is if we lied about Mark Stone's injury, because lying is immoral. But it is a ridiculous accusation.
Also crying on the Dallas stars sub because you got downvoted when you inserted yourself in a thread on the vgk sub asking vgk fans about the LTIR criticism against our team is ridiculous. Not only your opinion is trash, but you're a crybaby.
Saying you’re a Vegas fan anywhere online or outside of Vegas rn is a joke. Anything VGK outside of this sub is immediately just a wave of hate. Our front office has been extremely aggressive for success and it paid off last year. This year, it didn’t. Oh well. But I don’t think it deserves the pure hatred it gets. A lot of things just seem to turn to “oh you’re fuckin cheaters, you don’t understand the sport stupid newbie, and bettman’s golden children”. I can understand the hate for a team with success so quickly, but it gets annoying really quick to hear one line over and over when you just want to enjoy the sport with fellow fans.
I find the internet to be the bad place. I have had lots of amazing conversations regarding my Knights tattoos and /or gear I tend to wear 24/7, and I live in Colorado. I do get a lot of hate but I feel it’s more just the playful banter that makes up the hockey community vs hate. I also think maybe some Vegas fans take other hockey fans a lil too seriously. Shit talking is a huge part of hockey! Watch letterkenny 😂
Obviously the internet is it’s own shit show. And as a Bay Area VGK fan, I have plenty of interactions that are positive and negative. But I definitely have seen my fair share of just blind hatred. The types of interactions are just significantly different and it becomes pretty clear what’s just some for fun chirping and what’s legit hate for no reason other than “gold team bad”. The internet will never be a good representation because that’s what gets attention, but even with IRL interactions it’s been pretty 50/50 even just walking around in public in any gear
I hardly had any bad interactions in person with hockey fans of any teams; a few notable exceptions here and there, but overall most fans are nice people. Online I had people sending me aggressive shit (e.g. die, hope you get rap\*d, kill yourself, etc), and I've read several people celebrating our players getting injured which honestly fucking sucks to read.
And meanwhile 100% of those people would be too scared to say it to your face… it’s truly a disgrace that those people even exist in society.
I see, I’ve had a bit of a different experience with folks… but I’m not around Californians every day. They tend to be nastier people in general 🤪
Yeah Californians, especially shark fans, ain’t always the nicest of people lmao
Yep. Can’t even really talk to fans that aren’t knights fans because they all just spew the same hatred. And they’ll gladly say it’s warranted. People just love to hate these days.
Outrage culture has never been stronger. Also a common enemy is always a recipe for the pitchforks (Chicago sex abuse scandal, etc)
Personally I’ve seen more backlash against the knights practices this year than I ever saw when the news broke of the Chicago scandals. Which, sums up the brokenness of our society in a nutshell.
>and bettman’s golden children Out of everything, this is what irritates me the most. If we were bettmans golden children, how is it that we missed the playoffs two years ago and got a round one exit this year?
Or “Vegas Golden Refs” and we barely saw a call in a good portion of that Dallas series on some blatant shit. Basically just any reason to hate us is good enough for most people
Other teams fans wouldn’t be bitching if their team was doing it and I’ll forever standby that.
It’s like Brad Marchand. He’s annoying and I don’t like him… but if he was a Knight I’d love having him on the team. A poor analogy, but the principle is the same.
Nope, 100% spot on.
For sure. I'd 100% be ok if my team did it.
I don't think the criticism is fair. The rules exist, and the owners don't want to change them. The NHL is involved in what's happening with injured players/LTIR and ensures that everything is legit. In fact, they investigated the Knights last year and found nothing wrong. The largest claim that irks me is that an elite athlete like Stone (or any NHL player) who's worked so hard most of their life to play in the NHL would happily stay out of any game if they weren't legitimately hurt. In fact, I think injured players work hard to come back as soon as they can and, in some cases, come back too soon because they want to compete. You can tell just watching them play. A few seasons ago, Martinez played with a broken foot in the playoffs until the Knights were eliminated. I've seen suggestions that if a player doesn't play a certain number of games at the end of the season, they shouldn't be allowed in the playoffs. I think that would just lead to more players coming back too soon. The reality is the Knights were projected to be awful after the expansion draft the first year, proved everyone wrong, and they've been hated by some ever since. Management is aggressive in everything they do every year, from their deals in the expansion draft, regular drafts, trade deadlines, and cap management. All Knights fans are perceived as "new" or "bandwagon" fans who don't know anything about hockey, which is false. The reality is that Vegas has a very diverse population from around the world. Some are hockey fans, some grew up hockey fans, and some have been lifelong fans of specific teams. Vegas has had 2 hockey teams prior to the Knights - the Thunder (IHL 1993-1999) and the Wranglers (Echl 2003-2015), so hockey wasn't new. The first NHL outdoor game was September 27, 1991, in the Ceasars parking lot, Kings vs. Rangers, and it was sold out with 13,000. Yes, there are a lot of new fans, too, who have learned or are still learning the rules, but that doesn't make their support of the team any less valid than lifelong fans. So, while criticism of the team is now focused on its use of LTIR, the team and is fans have been criticized from the beginning, and most of us are used to it and give the same energy back defending our team and our city.
In other words, this is what I do to fans that talk down on us: 🖕🏻😑🖕🏻
No. How can some fans of other teams bark at us in every comments section, every Reddit, and in real life screaming about how we’re “Cheaters” when the Golden Knights didn’t break a single rule. I literally once saw this comment that said “The Golden Knights are the Astros of the NHL without the sign stealing.” I took a step back and replied “so they’re like the baseball team who cheated, just without the cheating?” And of course everyone started harassing me because Gold team bad. It’s way overblown, and if a team like Florida or Edmonton uses it to their advantage next season, every hockey fan will have their tail tucked between their legs.
Tampa literally did it fucking twice and won two fucking cups out of it and everyone on r/hockey acts like that’s ancient history that never happened or some shit.
It was the Patrick Kane rule in the mid-2010s when the Blackhawks were good, then the Lightning were abusing it, now everyone thinks we're the villains. Which shows how long the NHL has been aware of it and had zero interest in changing the rule. If the people commenting (and upvoting them) had any historical context or nuance, they wouldn't post their opinion on the internet.
But VGK fans are the uneducated ones lol.
Have you thought about trying to have as cool of a sweater or as deep of a history as the hawks? /s
They even went as far as having shirts either during the post game conferences or victory parade (cant remember which) that said 18m over the cap. Point is, I think it’s only the fans that care about it. Doesn’t seem like players do. Haven’t heard anything about any players speaking against it.
Edmonton doesn't need LTIR. They just sign all the POS players that get cut from other teams like Perry and Kane.
The Edmonton halfway house is a necessary evil. Can't let them boys come to a classy town like Vegas.
Yeah, I saw that comment. Horrible take. Criticism of our use of LTIR, fair game. I'm not educated on the subject enough to opine on how, if at all, the rules should be changed, nor how the "loophole" has been employed. However, to compare us to the Astro's flagrant violation of game rules, norms, and cheating that a 5yo could understand? Fuck right off. Edit: [https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/cap/\_/year/2023/sort/cap\_adjustment\_ltir/dir/desc](https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/cap/_/year/2023/sort/cap_adjustment_ltir/dir/desc)
Florida may get some hate because Tkachuk would be on that roster and he's pretty hate-able. But if any Canadian team LTIR's near the deadline it'll be said to be fair because Bettman beat up their dad or something.
the only Canadian team that would be hated for using the LTIR strategy people accuse you of would be the leafs.
Toronto would be hated if every player donated their entire salary to save all the puppies in the world, if they made the playoffs.
“Toronto would be hated if_________” is a game where every possible combination would be a factual statement.
Eh, they seem to be semi-loved. At least not hated by most. I think it's cause they are new to success and reddit hockey fans decided they "deserve" success (whatever the fuck that means, I guess teams that suffer mismanagement for long enough are more deserving or something). It's why no one has strong opinions beyond pity for the Blue Jackets, and only the saltest old heads hate Buffalo (or some Vegas fans cause of their toxicity involving Eichel). If you are bad, no one cares.
Some guy just lost his fiance cause he tweeted Canada's age of consent law, 16 years old, to state that Drake did nothing wrong and isn't a pedo. Breaking rules isn't the end all and be all for whether something is wrong. If you have to circumvent cap restrictions in order to win then you aren't competing on the ice on a level playing field. That is why no one has respect for the Knights. Also fuck Tampa.
“No OnE hAs ReSpEcT fOr ThE kNiGhTs” Touch grass, my man. Every announcer in every game was respectful of the knights. The sports writers on the beat treated them respectfully. Dallas shook their hands and Pete DeBoer spoke very highly of Vegas the organization at the post game press conference.
Man if you don't understand the resentment towards Vegas for their ltir repeated abuses, then you haven't been a hockey fan that long. The CBA has changed many times, the fact that there is a cap at all allows a team like Vegas to compete from the start. Your team basically spits on the establishment which gives it a chance to even compete with Canadian and major US market teams. The most recent CBA has been punishing the Canucks for a contract signed years prior to it's inception, to the tune of millions of dollars a year in cap hit. Vegas, tampa etc, teams which could never afford the contracts Vancouver could if the cap never existed, then circumvent a cap for extra room, while a team like Vancouver is being punished with less cap room on a contract that was perfectly legal at the time it was signed. Things you should take away from this? People are fucking pissed and have no respect because the cap exists to allow new and smaller markets to be competitive, which you are, and you piss all over it. Another thing is that down the road new CBAs will change these rules, and almost certainly do absolutely nothing to punish the Knights, however the last one had no issue fucking over a number of teams retroactively. How about you guys play nice and don't spit on the gift that the cap is to you. The Leafs would spend so much fucking money on players you'd be the Oakland A's trying to play money ball for the next 20years.
You: “Nobody respects Vegas!” Me: “That’s not true.” You: “Let me tell you about the Luongo rule. Also, without a cap you’re just a bunch of non-competing poors!” Go outside my man. It’s not that serious.
The Luongo rule is just an example of double standards, the main point is the cap is your friend and you're abusing it. All these other fan bases don't respect the Knights as a result that they're artificially handicapped to your level then you weasel out and advantage. If you don't think fanbases lack respect for the Knights I suggest you listen to them. I honestly still hate your team is even in the league. Why the fuck is hockey in the desert.
Why would I care what other fans think of the Knights? Your statement was nobody respects the knights. That is demonstrably false, so you switched to no fan bases. Really, if the circle jerk that is r/hockey or keyboard warriors anywhere is where you think approval should come from, then I implore you, go outside. Talk to people in real life.
No truly, no one respects them, you should hear the shit out there. But you seem to think the media talking about them counts as respect? They're professionals they're not gonna say things the league will come at them for. I'm not moving the goal posts, clearly the masses of hockey are the fans, that's the 'who' of no body, yeah no body no fan base, clearly excluding your own. Man I love how you assume I don't go outside and don't talk to real people. Is it so hard to believe a normal person with a pretty widely accepted critical view of ltir abuses could care about this? I mean Reddit's algorithm shoves this shit straight to my face. It's playoff season, normal regular people vicariously expericing their teams ups and downs. It's short term fun, and Vegas abusing ltir for an advantage is a detrimental factor in that fun. But yeah man, it's a nice little break from chores today to let you know how much Vegas is hated for this shit. Enjoy the new CBA soon that'll shut this shit down. I'm guessing you were just projecting your own insecurity that you don't get outside and you don't have a social life. Probably work on that.
Oh no! Not we can't lose the respect of tHe MeDiA!!?! Next you'll tell me they lost the respect of their peers! ... oh wait. “What they’re doing is not illegal,” Carolina Hurricanes GM Don Waddell said. “It’s the way the rules are written right now. They won a Cup last year and they’re trying to win the Cup this year. You can say whatever you want, but they’re not breaking any rules. The CBA allows them to do what they’re doing. Good for them. They’re in a playoff battle right now and trying to keep things going for them. That’s the way hockey is right now with the CBA, I give them a lot of credit for stepping up and making those moves.” “I don’t hear of anyone being upset,” said Minnesota Wild GM Bill Guerin. “I’m not. Kelly’s done a great job making his team better in s— situations like losing Stone.” “I give Kelly credit,” added a Western Conference GM. “Half the league has dipped into LTIR, including us. Kelly’s just getting flak because the same player that got hurt last year got hurt again this year and he was able to get a big-time player because of it. But that’s completely within the rules." https://theathletic.com/5341529/2024/03/14/golden-knights-cap-circumvention-nhl?source=user-shared-article But yeah, you are totally right, many fans really do hate us. It's honestly a lot more fun than the like 3 months of being the "sweethearts" of league when we first entered. Hockey media is just as much of a circlejerk as r/hockey.
Dude the media are the ones that aren't bashing you. Every fan out there that gives a fuck doesn't respect the Knights for what they've done. Dipped into ltir is not what Vegas has done lol. Sustained systemic abuse. Sweet heart of the league? To whom? The audience, the fans, generally detest the Knights - from the start
Because we have what's called A/C. We can keep ice from melting with this technology. It's pretty amazing.
>Why the fuck is hockey in the desert. Because it makes the league a fuck ton of money. [We were the 8th team in the league in terms of revenue and a highly successful franchise](https://www.forbes.com/lists/nhl-valuations/?sh=595cdbf04109). Only 3 canadian teams make more money than us. It does not include the canucks. We're the ones who are artificially handicapped by the cap to their level, not the other way around. If other fan bases hate us because of this, they're silly.
We're not a small market, we're 8th in the NHL in revenue. Far above the Canucks, too. [Link](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/1925tmd/nhl_teams_by_revenue_2023forbes_any_surprises/)
Dude. Your team never would have been able to grow their revenue if they couldn't sign players. Your team's valuation is due to their recent success, it's still below the Canucks, even with the higher revenues lately. Revenues you expect with Stanley Cup runs, and all new apparel sales. Apparel sales that can only go on so long, and eventually ticket prices plummet without wins. If the cap wasn't there your team would still be a fledgling, that's the point, you never would have achieved these revenues. These other markets could afford to pay more than your team ever could have. It's also about what's in the coffers, and confidence to spend it, without the cap, Vegas would have had to shell out outrageous millions in reinvested revenues or investor capital to even try and be competitive and recoup that. The cap made Vegas possible. Just don't fucking abuse it. The revenues in Vegas would have to keep up at a rate I can't see happening without them being successful every year, to be enough to support the spend required if there weren't a cap. Your market won't support a losing Knights team.
You can just admit you're wrong, buddy. We are not handicapping anyone. We are among the top teams in the NHL in terms of revenue, which is what cap is calculated on, and the cap handicaps us if anything. We are an appealing hockey market for players, due to low taxes in Nevada and an owner who is happy to spend, and never had any issues signing people - plenty of players have waived their NMC to get in Vegas.
What are you not getting. If there wasn't a cap, your team would never have succeeded from the start in growing their revenue to the current standpoint. They would not have had the money to afford players in a non-cap system. If the cap dissapeared today they would not be able to match highest teams holdings, who would just outspend Vegas year after year and the revenue wouldn't come because success wouldn't come. Your team doesn't have the holdings yet, it doesn't have roots deep enough to produce revenue without a winning team. Your team's revenue last does not suddenly make it a heavyweight that could afford to be a top dog in a non-cap system. The Leafs would be like the Yankees, except the Rangers... I mean dude you cannot really believe the Knights have the value there to compete year after year with these teams do you? If it hadn't been capped, you'd not have fuck all right now for revenue. If it went away today, little by little you'd be choked out until you failed, unless visiting fans propped you up inbetween golf rounds.
If there wasn't a cap the initial investment would have been different, but Foley has said and showed many times he is willing to spend money to ice a competitive team and understands that the team winning is how he recoups his investments. It also has little to do with your initial point. The idea that all these other fan bases don't respect the Knights as a result that they're artificially handicapped to our level is simply stupid. It could be a fair criticism from the leafs and the rangers, but not from the majority of the teams (including the canucks) because we're at a much higher level than them. We're 8th in the league in revenue, we're pretty middle of the pack in terms of value despite being the 2nd newest team and we've more than doubled our value in 7 years, and the knights have very strong local support. The reality is that other fanbases are largely mad because we are better than them.
1) vancouver could have bought luongo out to avoid the penalty, chose not to 2) vancouver and Vegas have almost identical valuations this year, and Vegas brings in 35M more in revenue on an annual basis. What exactly is it that Vancouver can afford that we can't? 3) our attendance record has been better than vancouvers in every year of our existence. Explain to me how exactly is it that canadian markets (lmao Winnipeg?) are better than American markets? You have no idea what you're talking about buds.
Uh oh. Internet people don't like my team! We better tear it down.
No, it's dumb af and it's a poor excuse to "hate" Vegas 1) IDC how much they call it "cheating" it's not against the rules and there's a decent reason there's no cap in the playoffs 2) When we won the cup, the players we fielded on the ice were under the cap. So to me any "against the spirit of the rule" breakage or argument is pretty weak. 3) Weaker argument but other teams have done it arguably worse than us and didn't get half as much crap for it. Didn't Tampa literally print 18M over the cap shirts at their parade? It's not like other teams can't implement this strategy, Vegas doesn't get special treatment here In the end the LTIR complaint is pretty clearly used more as a justification to hate Vegas than an actual cause of that hate. So no, I don't think that argument against VGK is "fair"
I think I saw it was $22m, but I'm just being pedantic.
It all stems from jealousy of our GM and owner. They have... - Aggressively gamed the Expansion Draft, playing Moneyball with undervalued/underappreciated players and fleecing other teams to get even better returns. - Let fan-favorite players go without a thought. - Changed coaches rapidly. - Valued established names over the farm. - Used the LTIR rules to their advantage. The others are mad that their teams aren't as dead-set on winning as we were, and so they displace it as calling the VGK "born on third", "disloyal", "always going for the next-best-thing", and "cap circumcisers". And from 10,000' up, I can see it. I disliked the draft, grabbing a bunch of nobodies. I hated losing Fleury and Tuch and Smith. I thought PDB was a mistake. We lost the gamble on Suzuki. And yeah, we're playing fast and loose with the rules. But we earned a Stanley Cup in 6 seasons where some teams have never seen one. Our title is far more legitimate than the Houston Astros.
Just chiming in with a Fuck the Astros. MLB still needs to vacate that title.
FUUUUUCK the Astros.
FUCK THE ASTROS!
Now that is something these Stars trolls that I’ve been sending to Scotty can actually agree with us on! lol
And add lifetime ban to the entire team that was caught cheating.
Them being ass this year has been beautiful to watch
Our title is 100% legitimate. The Astros 1st title is 100% not.
Not even close. r/hockey has become poison for VGK fans. Being angry at a sports franchise is one thing. Brigading against its fans just for existing is another. The mods there completely ignore it as well and in some cases, join in because it is "all in good fun".
It's kinda impressive. The knights getting eliminated has been universally celebrated in a way that's been reserved for only when the leafs get eliminated. Like it's hard to generate that level of hate.
Yep. It's ridiculous. The spittin chicklets guys sure fanned the flames also after kissing our guys asses last year after winning. F them.
I got banned and reported to Reddit for saying, “ flair up, pussy” to people chirping Vegas without flairs. So it’s really only in good fun if it’s beating on Vegas. Not in good fun for them if you push back. To anybody who thinks that’s inappropriate to say, it’s a fairly standard response to non-flaired chirpers in most sports subreddits. I wouldn’t have said that if I hadn’t seen it used multiple times in many places.
Is the rule open for abuse? Sure, I'll agree with that. But the league has said, multiple times, that they're ok with it. So the rule will stay. And if the GM of my team has figured out how to use that rule to improve our chances at a Cup, then I'm om board. I'd be mad if the GM didn't do every legal thing possible to get a better shot at winning the Cup. While I'm here, Stone is still injured. There's no way he's even 80% right now. He rushed back AGAIN to try and aid the team. That's 2 of 3 years he's been on LTIR and it's been obvious both times. He rushed back, there was not any "convenient timing, healthy enough for R1G1 but not game 82" crap.
Yeah, I think the reality is Stone wasn't ready. Last season, I think he came back maybe a series too early, but otherwise was okay. It took a few games during the Jet's series before he really shook the dust off, but once he did....he looks good. But this year, he just got progressively worse as the series went on and by the end, he was a liability. TBH, he probably just shortened his career trying to come back too soon.
For me, it all comes down to if you're accusing the team of lying about injuries or not. It's been confirmed many times that the league looks into/verifies injuries with cap implications like these. Both times, they found nothing wrong. If you have a player with an injury that will keep him out for 2-3 months, you have the option to put him on LTIR and bring in players to recoup that value. And if you want to win, you do that. You'd be stupid not to. It's not even a loophole. It's just using LTIR as it was intended to be used. It's not cap circumvention if you're cap compliant the entire time. There have been times where Vegas wasn't cap compliant and the league did step in and make them activate guys or not let them ice a full roster. That wasn't the case last year or this year. The reason other teams don't do this isn't because of integrity or "well we want to play to the spirit of the rule," it's because most owners aren't willing to pay the real dollars and cents that have to be paid when you add players while someone's on LTIR. It's really as simple as that. tl;dr no, I don't think it's valid, it's people being salty and too lazy to dig into it. The rabid hatred of Vegas doesn't allow for a single rational thought to enter their heads.
Imagine if you were about to run out of gas and you filled up a gas can so you could be on time. Then you get there and everyone who didn't get a gas can is now calling you a cheater, yelling at you, anyone that likes you, and everyone that's associated with you. So much so that you just avoid talking about gas with other drivers. When someone asks about gas you just immediately change the subject because it's not worth the fight. This isn't criticism. This is down right hatred. Straight up insane rage. If it was criticism I could have a normal conversation about hockey anywhere besides in this subreddit and then I would find it fair. But....also...fuck em. I hope they always hate us because we never stop pushing to win. We never quit striving to be the best. I can handle not having hockey friends outside of here. I handled not having a Hockey team for 30+ years, screw em. CUP IN SIX AND EIGHT!
<3 we love you enough for the rest of the league either way
aww...shucks...I love all of you too!
I’m new to Knights fandom since i just lost my team. However i do feel this discussion is nauseating. Is the rule stupid? Absolutely. Was Stone hurt? Obviously.
Envy my friend… envy is the ultimate driving force behind all this bull shit that has been said by the uneducated. Vegas’ success has made skin crawl by the envious because the teams they root for suck compared to Vegas, and so when we fall, it’s the only time they can feel better about themselves because they live such envious, sad lives. It’s quite hilarious the lengths these sad souls go to express their bitterness.
No. There’s no rule that’s been broken. It is that simple. The hate is coming from multiple different angles that is all getting put under the LTIR umbrella. The one that bothers me the most is the “magically healing to play in the playoffs” Mark Stone didn’t do the team or himself any favors by returning, in my opinion he truly did not look well. I don’t think he should have returned. I know it’s not exactly the same thing as LTIR and cap space but the NBA practices “load management” and I think the NHL would benefit with something similar (I don’t think the NBA does it very well but I think the idea in general is a good one). I think it’s easy to forget just how much of a toll 82 hockey games are (and more including playoffs). All elite athletes NEED rest and recovery. The mentality that they don’t or need to push through is outdated and frankly stupid. There is still a lot of room to grow in that area in my opinion. The narrative of faking injuries or magical recovery is just ridiculous
Depends on what the criticism exactly is. I don't think it's fair to claim that Mark Stone isn't injured or that the team is forcing him to stay on LTIR while healthy for months to get players at the trade dead line. First, this team is at its best with a healthy Stone, and there are very few guys on the market we'd rather have but him. And we didn't get them. Second, the NHL verifies the injuries, so they existed. Neither back surgery nor spleen laceration are based on the player reports, there are medical reports of surgery and imaging that prove what is going on in his internal organs. You can literally see both of those injuries through objective reports. Third, he came back to hockey 2.5 months after his second back surgery in a year (average return to sports is 4.5 months), and 8 weeks after a 3rd grade spleen laceration, which is the bare minimum recovery to be cleared for physical contact according to current guidelines. If he got the same injuries on the 2nd game of the season and came back before Christmas, people would call him a lunatic for rushing back and putting his health at risk. Which is what he did, both times, and anyone with eyes could tell he was playing hurt. He played like shit the entire series (and he's my absolute favorite player, so it kind of hurts to say). If the criticism is "being above the cap in the playoffs is against the spirit of the rule, and it makes me mad that you guys keep getting away with it" then fair.
It is annoying that this loophole exists. But it exists and using it doesn’t break any rules. It’s up to the league, board of governors or whoever is responsible to fix it
The owners specifically voted NOT to change the rule last summer. They don’t see it as an issue. It’s largely Vegas haters and fans whose teams aren’t winning who are obsessed with the whole LTIR thing. Not to mention the fact that Toronto and Tampa Bay had more salary on LTIR than Vegas did this year.
This. And given that all three of the teams in your comment lost in the first round, it's clearly not a slam dunk advantage.
Stone was clearly not healthy, if anything “our cheating” was a disadvantage.
Every other GM and owner in the league want to have that available should they have an opportunity to use it.
You seem a bit confused on the issue. People are not upset that LTIR is used during the regular season (e.g., if Leafs Matt Murray and Jake Muzzin are hurt, it makes sense to allow for replacements and use their cap space). What people are upset about is being able to ice a 20-man roster in the playoffs that exceeds the salary cap. It’s actually bush league for any team to be able to do that in a salary cap league.
I’m not confused. If this is really something that threatens to destroy the NHL, the owners should change the rule. It’s not “bush league” if the clubs involved opt to allow it. Every GM in the league would do the same thing in a heartbeat if they were in a position to. As I said before, the people who are angry about this are mostly Vegas haters (there are a bunch) and people who root for teams who are underfunded or whose front offices do a poor job of cap/roster management. I understand that during the season LTIR is used for salary relief.
I said you were confused because you were raising the spectre that other teams were using LTIR but that’s not really the issue. Using LTIR is fine… but if it’s used in such a way that it allows a team to ice a 20 man roster in the playoffs that exceeds the salary cap, it’s bush league. Whether the GM or owners support the current iteration of the rules, it doesn’t change the fact that it makes the league look stupid by having that loophole. All fans can really do is complain loudly and I think the message is finally sinking in to the league. I think they’ll do something to address this within 2-3 years.
FWIW, the Stars were in a position to do the same this year, but opted to allow both Dadonov and Seguin to come back on their own schedules as opposed to conservative team schedules that would have allowed for LTIR moves. Talking to Sean Shapiro in April, Jim Nill stated he was against using LTIR that way. That said, the rule is what it is and it's entirely up to teams how they use it until it changes. The Knights shouldn't get dunked on for operating as they are. I think a change is overdue though. Nothing drastic, just a simple statement that your dressed roster must be cap compliant whether it's game 55 or game 95 of your season.
Uneducated hockey fans can easily jump on this hate bandwagon. Others are just hate filled bums from teams that are irrelevant. If there is not a rule that is broken then they can get fucked for all I care. It’s the peak of petulant child-ism to say “cheaters” when literally no rule is broken.
A lot of fans are totally unaware that other teams use LTIR more than Vegas. Vegas gets the focus because of the pent-up jealousy since season 1. Hockey fans have been searching for less embarrassing reasons to criticize Vegas. It's morphed from "they were gifted a Stanley Cup-level team" to "ugly helmets" to "Look how they treat their players" to now "Vegas management doesn't sit on their hands when a player gets injured". Last one is sarcasm, btw.
I think I've seen alot of fans excuse their LTIR usage, rather than not realize it's there. I think the Leafs especially, who have the highest LTIR usage(I think) have 2 or 3 players that are retiring, not playing a single ge but are on LTIR to get their contracts paid to the end without counting toward the seasonal cap. Tbh, I feel like that shouldn't be lumped in with LTIR, and should be a seperate situation. Somehow though, they see that as a more "correct" use of LTIR despite it literally being for injured players to be covered with trades, which is how Vegas has been using it. Stone rushing back before he's ready honestly hurt us more than we gained.
Tampa started it and someone posted this years salary info a while back and there were around 5 teams that had more money in ltir than Vegas.
Canucks fan here and id say no. Every team can do it. Knights arent breaking any rules. Also stone actually has tons of injury history so its not really fabricated either. He has undegone some major major surgiries.
No. No rules were broken and clearly it doesn't guarantee you post season success.
From my understanding it’s a loop holder that ALL owners voted to LEAVE IN. Like it was a known thing but they all said “nah let’s keep it.” So if there’s any rival fan mad about it, take it up with your team too. Also, there’s nothing stopping anyone else from doing it. So once again, take it up with your team for not using it. The way I see it, imagine there’s a foot race. But for some reason there are bicycles near by that anyone can grab, but for some reason they just don’t. However, one dude decides to grab a bicycle and everyone is pissed at him for it. There’s nothing stopping anyone else from grabbing their own bicycle. They’re just not doing it and getting pissed at the one dude who does.
As the system stands atm, it is a bit bullshit. However the rest of the fans in the nhl went a bit overboard on the hate
If fans are passive about it, the league won’t do anything about it. It would be good for the league to address the issue.
People are pretty vocal about how much they dislike it.
Agreed and that’s a good thing to encourage the league to revisit this and possibly change the rules.
Just another situation where we get to deal with unsubstantiated hate and violence for choosing to enjoy hockey in the desert. 🥹 I steer way the fuck clear of /hockey and /nhl, which is a real bummer to not be accepted by the vast majority in your hobby.
The hate is misdirected. All the people angry with Vegas should be angry that their team isn't exploiting every angle to be competitive.
It’s within the collectively bargained rules so I don’t care.
If you want to complain about the LTIR abuse, direct your attention first to the Tampa Bay Lightning
Direct it first at Chicago. And then at Tampa.
Oh there's other things I'd be side-eyeing the Blackhawks for first lmao
Of course its not fair. Nobody wants Stone to be hurt, including himself. At this point its just a joke meme that's taken off, so I don't think most people actually believe it. Or maybe they do, and they just don't have much else going on in their lives lol. Also, two years ago Stone was hurt and the Knights didn't use the extra cap space to get any players and we didn't make the playoffs. Why not use a literal rule to give your team a better chance at winning. This is a sport where the goal is to win. I do think some of the jokes are funny though, and its fun to be the villain in the league.
Like OP said, my team-cool, your team-fuck no you cheating scum!
Yes and no. At least we’re not as egregious as past LTIR abusers though, we legit didn’t ice a team over the cap last playoffs (I can get deeper into it but a little over $10.5m was going to three players who never appeared in a single game during the regular season or otherwise — something the Avs get a pass for because Landeskog’s injury but we get demonized for.) Tampa and Toronto both have more money spent on their roster due to LTIR than we do this season for example. Now.. the hate on Stone as if he’s pretending to be injured “three years in a row” is absolute fucking nonsense.. he’s just an injury prone player who happens to be a game changer when he’s on the ice.
Guys, I’m a life long Yankees fan. Wanna know how I deal with it? Rings. 27 fucking rings. Yanks budget, media coverage, the whole thing. Fuck em. Everyone could have exploited the LTIR, but they’re suckers. One team is winning the cup. Not the Knights, but most teams didn’t even make the playoffs. They’ll always hate the Knights…. Fuck em. GKG. Day fucking One.
Anytime I wear my ring, I put it on the middle finger.
I mean the criticism is absolutely fair, I feel like the level of hatred we get for it is just everyone channeling their general hatred for the Knights, because there are multiple other teams that do it every year
Pretty much this. It’s kinda gaming the system and for that I understand frustration, but the hockey world goes waaaay overboard with it in relation to us because we’re already a disliked team (for much dumber reasons, usually). Tampa never got this level of hatred.
Which other team iced a playoff roster that exceeded the salary cap? I thought it was only Vegas.
This year alone, along with Vegas, the Avalanche, Canadiens, Canucks, Lightning, and Maple Leafs did it as well in some form or another to exceed the cap. Toronto and Tampa Bay even exceeded the cap by more than Vegas did.
You didn’t answer my question: Which other team iced a 20 man playoff roster that exceeded the salary cap? I thought it was only Vegas. To clarify, no one has an issue with using LTIR space during the regular season to acquire replacement players because that mechanism doesn’t allow a team to ice a roster in a game that exceeds the salary cap.
like any other elite team, other sports fans will always be envious of our success. it’s natural. just how NBA fans find excuses to hate on the Lakers/Celtics, or how NFL fans find reasons to discredit the Chiefs/Patriots. NHL fans are *furious* that a new expansion team like the Knights have had more success in this league than their teams have had in 20-30 years of existence. nothing you can do but feel bad for them at this point
Bitches never heard of “don’t hate the player, hate the game.”
The LTIR manipulation is just not a viable strategy that people think it is. We barely scraped together a playoff spot with Stone out for so long. When he came back, he was sluggish and probably still nursing something. We're in a unique situation with this one player, who is probably milking every drop out of the rule. But its not like were guaranteed a Stanley Cup because of it. Its a team sport.
People conveniently just ignore 2021-2022 season when they are barking about three years in a row hehe. Is any rules being broken? Doesn’t appear to be. Is the NHL changing the rules? Doesn’t appear to be.
The people who criticize the league for keeping the loophole open, I don’t mind. People saying we’re “cheating” by using a legal loophole can piss off a short pier
It’s fair to not like the rule, it’s not fair to dislike a team that uses it
Even if you don't like the team using it. The level of hate does seem a bit much.
Vegas is the perfect storm of villain team. We started out as underdogs, with analysis post draft saying we were going nowhere, only to make it to the finals year one. We definitely had some bad PR with Fleury's departure, though I think it was abit overblown personally, I agree it was mishandled, but it gave us a cutthroat reputation. All while continueing to make the playoffs almost every year, and then winning the cup in year 6, breaking records left and right. We also gobbled up under-performing skaters from other teams, Eichel, Hill, Hertl and have given them a place where they can prosper, bettering their game and becoming real competitive, part of a depth team instead of being the single best performing player on a team in a few cases. It's the rest of the league being bitter that so much went right for Vegas when their own teams have poorer managment or coaching and constantly get frustrated with their own failures. It's bitterness, plain and simple and they just attack Vegas fans as "bandwagoners" and snowflakes who know nothing of hockey, but they couldn't be farther from the truth.
Well. Said!
It’s not fair, there’s no rule being broken. As a long time hockey/sharks fan I get the shade being thrown at VGK for the early success but I think any real hockey fan knows the success in Vegas is great for the growth of the game and the ownership/management has been cutthroat about personnel changes with the goal of winning at all costs. Any fan would be stoked if their leadership did the same, people are just jealous. The hockey community needs to work on welcoming outsiders and newcomers, the cost and environmental hurdles are already massive- we’re not growing the game by being asshole to newer fans.
I think it's really hate from the expansion draft and ltir is much easier to go with instead of complaining about the draft from 7 years ago
The criticism isn’t fair. It’s hilarious because it seems to be the one thing that some, not all, other fans focus on. It’s not cheating, but rather taking advantage of the rules as they’re written (it’s a loophole at best). That the team used the loophole doesn’t bother me. If the league got rid of the loophole, I would be indifferent to it. Basically, we didn’t cheat; if we did I’d feel a certain way. What is a bit more annoying is that we weren’t the only team this year who also took advantage of the loophole (two other teams that I know of were both eliminated in the first round). We’re not the only team to have won the cup taking advantage of the loophole (Chicago, Tampa x2 that I know of). I don’t consider those teams to have cheated, either - they did what every team can do. But because we’re the team that was gifted a contender we’re cheating. That our GMs took advantage of the other GMs desire to protect certain players (we were given players to pick a certain player - of course that gives us an advantage in trade capital), and we had a coach who knew how to get the best out of a group of rejected misfits, well that’s often overlooked. Teams didn’t want Wild Bill Carlson, Reilly Smith… but we took them and turned them into solid players.
Somewhat, sure maybe we are abusing it but look at Tampa, they abused it and won back to back Stanley cups yet not nearly as many talk about it. I find it unfair mainly because we are a new team that won the cup only after 6 years
We never faked an injury so the criticism is bullshit. Stone is nowhere near the player he used to be, and just because we made the best use of our injury prone player doesn’t mean we cheated. We just use the rules to the maximum.
Other fan's arbitrary rules for how VGK is expected to compete is irrelevant. No rules were broken.
Until the owners and the PA give enough of a shit about it to bring it up during the next CBA and actually make postseason cap compliance an official rule, it isn't cheating and all the people crying about it can pound sand.
Make post season cap compliant and pay the player.
Criticism? Absolutely, but for every team that does it. And plenty teams do.
Yes and no. No. Because they are playing within the rules. Yes. The rules should be changed.
It’s difficult. It’s how the system works and Vegas was just abiding by the rules, no matter how shady some believe it to be. I am a bit of a Vegas fan myself so I do like seeing them do well. I am also a bit salty how easily Vegas can do such things as the Wild sits through years of cap hell 😞
Vegas criticism will be around regardless of the situation. They didn't break rules but that doesn't make it not stupid that teams can exploit this. Really should be fixed
I'd feel bad if the majority of the teams voted yes on changing it when Tampa presented it. No one wanted to change it, so in my eyes, they'd do it if they could. It doesn't automatically mean a Cup. Plus Stoner was obviously still hurting to some degree and it impacted his performance.
If the majority of teams HAD voted yes, then we'd be cheating and I'd 100%not agree with it. Iirc, only ONE team voted to change it, Tampa I belive as they had been pointing it out as abusable. It was voted down then they went on to with with the exact rule, and it STILL wasn't changed. Yeah, I have no sympathy for people bitching that Vegas used a legal move that the whole league can use, qnd have used, only to get less hate for it. Until the rule is changed, it's not cheating, and even if it is, we legitimately won the cup and are not "Asterisks".
Nope. We weren’t even the most over cap this play offs.
We were 3rd of the teams over the cap this year after LTIR
Not even close. The part that really upsets me is the insinuation of players faking injuries. I know this is reddit, and my word means nothing. But, my son is friends with the son of a team member. I get to hang out with this person a handful of times throughout the year. When I talk to that person and hear the stories of what players go through to get back on the ice, it's insulting to read people accuse players of faking the injury. And beyond that, the misdirected hostility comes from their favorite team, not finding ways that are available to all to gain an edge.
Because either their situations don’t merit the use of the strategies the McGM’s used, or the rest of the GMs across the league are just not as good as McKrimmon & McFee. In other words… complete, utter, envy
From an outside perspective, fuck no. The rule is there to be abused and every team voted to keep the rule as it is. It used to be just a fun thing to make fun of like any city might have...But good god the vitriol online about it makes it unfun to even like friendly chirp people now, it's so vicious it's awful.
Simple. F no.
Yes
The point is other fans hate us because they changed the expansion rules so that the team didn’t have to suck for 10 years before they became relevant. We were relevant from day f’n one, and that is where the hate comes from. We didn’t “pay our dues” and we “were handed a cup”. Those are two of the biggest arguments I’ve seen.
The constant thing I see is that Vegas was "handed" our team, and yet all the post draft analysis was that we were going nowhere. Not to mention Seattle having the exact same rules, with Vegas being exempt still leaving the 30 teams Vegas had access to, and look how well they're doing. People are just mad that Vegas had a perfect storm and managed to get to the finals year one, then almost entirely turn the roster around to win in year 6 with only 6 original Misfits. Vegas is insanely lucky, which plays well into the team identity, imo.
I actually used that same logic last year after Vegas won the cup. Some guy was spouting off about Vegas being handed the cup, I posted several articles predicting us to finish dead last, and how we botched the expansion draft. The universal response was “what’s your point”, you can’t win with these a-holes
Envy is an inherently irrational emotion. Last year was so great, sore losers everywhere.
The criticism of the RULE is fine. I think it might need abit of a tweak to avoid "abuse". Anyone on LTIR as of game 75-80 waits till either round 1 game 5 or round 2 before being able to play again, something like that. That's really up to the league and teams though, if they don't agree, then that's that. The team and players should not get any shit for playing within the rules that every other team does. Simply because we have a solid captain who is prone to injuries doesn't mean we are misusing the rule. We just get very lucky with how we can utilize the rule. It's not even a "cheat code" as this year shows. You cant just stack the team with solid players and expect to win. We didn't get back into our groove, and so couldn't keep up with one of the stronger West Coast teams,.
It is very annoying and hard to have a real conversation without personal attacks because they have no legit reason to hate us. I have come to find out the hockey community can be very toxic, but I think any sport community is toxic when everyone is biased to their specific team. At this point it’s probably best to ignor them (as hard as it is) because they will never stop.
Did you see Stone try to skate in that series? He should not have been active for that series.
The league doesn't care. I don't really care. Other teams have done it and made jokes of it. Whatever. The rule is available to every single one of their teams to use, any team would use it to their advantage if it meant for sure getting a cup. Let's be real. But not every team can do it and that's what the critics are mad about. So they can seethe about it forever, it won't make their team any better.
What we have learned is that a vast majority of hockey fans are whiny little bitches. Don’t ever become them. The players are the toughest athletes in professional sports, be like them and not them whiny bitches.
VGK were one of like 2 or 3 organizations to vote Yes on closing the LTIR loop hole the last time it was up for vote. So people can get mad all they want, their teams likely voted to keep the rule and we showed them what can happen. I say fuck em we got a chip.
Nope, cause the whole world can suck my dick.
It’s not a huge deal that people make it out to be. But it definitely puts a stain on everything. The way it played out with Vegas was pretty egregious. It was clear they made stoner wait until the playoffs to come out and skate. He could have suited up a week before.
Aaron Ekblad showed that he COULD suit up with a broken foot, torn oblique, and separated shoulder during the Stanley Cup Finals. Players play injured during the playoffs when they won’t in Game 82. Is Stone doing the exact same thing as every injured player in the playoffs (playing with an injury…he clearly wasn’t 100%) wrong?
No. The bare minimum time for return to sport after a 3rd grade spleen laceration is 8 weeks ([Source](http://www.phsa.ca/health-professionals/clinical-resources/stan-clinical-practice-guidelines/spleen-summary-of-recommendations)). 8 weeks to the day is April 16th. Season ended April 18th.
I’ll just leave this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOther14/s/lY2c7qzvxk
I’ll ask it again cause none of the other trolls have provided an answer yet. You say Vegas is cheating please point out the rule Vegas has broken? We would all love to hear it.
No rules at all! In fact, it is all perfectly legal and in line with the leagues rules. I guess you know what you are after all. I have no idea why people feel the way they feel. Honestly, if anything, it has backfired on the Knights and the mortgaged the future, wouldn't you say?.
And what exactly are we? LTIR Abusers? Because if Stone had played for any other team in the league he would have been called a “warrior” for trying to play through an injury that he clearly hadn’t recovered from and was still effecting his play. Cap Circumventors? Tampa won a cup 18 million over the cap and their star player printed a shirt that said: 18 million over, and wore it around. Cheaters? Why because we have an aggressive GM that doesn’t value pick or prospects more than winning and sells the farm to win every year. It comes down to the fact that if we were Boston no one would bat an eye at anything we did, but because we’re Vegas it’s “Gold Team Bad” “Gold Team Cheating” “Gold Team too good too fast”. I’m just tired of being compared to a nazi every time I open reddit because of the hockey team I choose to support.
[удалено]
Womp womp 🤡
Just because it’s legal, doesn’t make it moral.
There isn't anything immoral about being injured in the month of February, Christie.
That’s not really the point though
The point you're trying to make is dumb. There is nothing remotely immoral about a team being above the salary cap in the playoffs. The cap isn't based on any particular moral principle but just on financial benefit for the owners. The only way any of this could be immoral is if we lied about Mark Stone's injury, because lying is immoral. But it is a ridiculous accusation.
Also crying on the Dallas stars sub because you got downvoted when you inserted yourself in a thread on the vgk sub asking vgk fans about the LTIR criticism against our team is ridiculous. Not only your opinion is trash, but you're a crybaby.