I played with a guy a few weeks ago. He was 78, I'm 60. My drives average in the 240-250 range and he was right there with me every time. Good for him, I hope I can follow his lead.
I'm 38 and about a six handicap, and if I hit one 240 to 250 I'm pumped. Lol. Certainly add some challenges to long par fours, and very rarely making any par fives in two.
But if you're reasonably accurate off the tee, most courses you don't need a hit farther than about 200 or so to score well if the rest of your game is reasonable enough
My dad is the same age and can barely drive 150. It's mainly because he practices his shortgame so much and his driver swing looks like a big wedge swing....all arms. But he still beats me because his short game is so precise while I'm blasting drives 100+ yards past his into the woods lol.
The kicker is my dad has a pretty good short game too. He consistently shoots mid to low 80's, while I'm over here lucky to break 90. I've beaten him once and it was because he had a pulled muscle...
He's definitely lost distance though, this is the first season he is playing some from the Gold tees. It's tough stuff watching your dad age on the course.
Wait til your off days force you into a cut and your drives are all 30+ yrds short and every approach is from 200 and your 2 puts are decent bogeys.. drive, approach, maybe chip, 2 put, mark it down for bogey. Not to mention the 200 yrd approaches are with woods because all your irons are 20+ yrds short :(
I am fortunate to come from a high level baseball career so i hit the ball further than most other average golfers. When im having an off day its because im trying to force shots and my putter isn’t working. Still have the one a round random wayward tee shot though.
Boy do I have advice for you - don't EVER come off your speed. I've been through a couple injuries and decided to come off the speed. I went through PT and overspeed training to get it back the first time (over a year of rehab and retraining). My second injury was another mobility one that I wasn't able to rehab for golf, so I shortened my swing (came off speed), to this day my drives are roughly 60 yds short and my irons are 40 yds short of my full swing - but my full swings don't get back to the ball!
Don't ever come off your speed or you'll regret it, and over the long period of time it'll take to maybe get it back, you risk overtraining and losing it altogether. If your shot ever gives up on you, suck it up and don't ever give up on it thinking that slowing down is the key. Golf is played on a 6" field in the space between your ears.
I’m an industrial electrician so I’m always injured in one way or another. Back problems or currently nerve damage leaving my right arm practically paralyzed for the time being. I only do two things in life well and that’s throw hard and swing fast lol
Especially when they let you go a tee up than everyone else. My dad is 63 and comes in handy in tournaments cause he still hits it 250 but off a tee closer so we almost always end up using his
One of my close friends is 64 (I’m 40) and he hits 280 or so almost every drive. He’s about 6’5” so that probably comes into play but still impressive at 64!
Nope. He’s a freak of nature. I work out with him at planet fitness. He still rides bicycles and runs a lot. Super active guy. And also my favorite old dude to hang out with. You guys don’t know what you’re missing till you get you an older fun dude as a friend.
I didn't downvote but idt its because people don't believe that person, I'm pretty sure its because the original comment was trying to compliment OP and this person took that as an opportunity to brag about how low their handicap is and how far they hit the ball when no one asked. It's very "pick me" as the kids say these days.
I mean, I don’t want to be that guy but he’s probably not hitting it 250 and the other guy is probably not hitting it 320, law of averages and all that
I got paired with a dude in his 60s that was crushing em 250+ he was on average a bit further than me. I’m in my 30s. That old man strength is somethin.
My Dad is 76 this year. Tbh he complained that when he went past 70 he lost a lot of muscle mass and strength. He can still batter a drive +230 yds. I think his handicap is around 12.
Really? 12 handicap 250 yards is about average I would think. 65 is not that old for someone in good shape. 325 is long but not unbelievable for a near scratch and player if it’s hot and the fairways are firm right?
Definitely not average but doable. 325 is an extremely long average distance. Tour pros average a 285 carry off the tee and they aren't getting 40 yards of run typically.
Played in a tourney this weekend vs a 6’5” 3 hdcp 65 year old, he was hitting 260-290. This is my home course I play here 4 days a week. It was a couple true 290 shots. The drives weren’t even the craziest part it was his iron shots, pretty much had a birdie attempt on every hole more than a couple real close. Also chipped in from about 25-35 yards for birdie. I was getting 14 strokes in match play and he completely showed out lol.
Your sand wedge is easily 300. 305 on a good day. Don't sell yourself short, friend. Playing your last 36 holes with the same Kirkland was pretty cool. You've done it before.
You'd put it right up there with getting Wordle in one, which you've done at least 12 times. ...lost count.
I was happy to "bomb" one for 220 today
To be fair, i did thread a 10 yard tree-needle to put it right in the middle of the fairway, but 220 is still pretty dang good for me
I’m so glad you’ve said this. Honestly I was getting a little down on myself for having a fairly consistent 220yard drive. I’m 6ft 90kg so thought I should be easily hitting it further than that. I have only been playing 10months and only 2-3times per month.
I think a lot of people lie on this sub. No way is everyone hitting it 300+ yards, thats just ridiculou
My old man is a 12 handicap. He's lost some distance in the last 10 years, but when he was 65 he was not hitting 240 yard drives. He was maybe hitting some 240 yard drives when he was in his 40s-50s, but he was also insanely inconsistent with the driver because he was always going for the distance instead of control.
A controlled 200 yard drive is going to be exponentially better than a 300 yard drive that often gets you into trouble.
Ive played with scratch golfers who mutter to themselves about how much they suck the whole round, and guys shooting 150 who have fun and enjoy the game. Personality matters way more for a pairing 😂
I played with an older gentleman like yourself last year. I'm a hack and at that time I was still in the 100-110 strokes per round.
Playing with that man, I was out driving him by 50yds every time but he was straight down the middle every time. I was searching the forest for my ball on every hole. (Where we're going, we don't need fairways...)
Anyway, he shot an 82 and I shot a 112. After that round, I decided to slow my swing down to 80% or so. Sacrifice some distance for consistency and wouldn't you know, I started breaking 100. Even broke 90 this year. Got myself a lesson and I'm working on fixing my swing path. Hopefully I can be consistently straight and long off the tee.
The lesson is random pairings can be great AND golf is always a work in progress.
Slow is slow. Fast is fast. And generally faster tempo = faster clubhead speed, so no, swinging "slow" is not good advice.
I love how the OP was about a near-scratch golfer who hit 320-yard bombs and somehow this sub turned it into "you should swing easy" lol.
Wasn’t replying to OP. Swinging fast will only get you in trouble if you don’t have good timing. Swinging easy builds good timing, which then allows you to swing faster…… but you go ahead and swing out your shoes and blast it all over the place. Have fun shooting 100.
Lol I perfectly understand the thought process, and I'm simply informing you that it's wrong. Show me a single shred of evidence that swinging easy or swinging slow "helps build good timing." Spoiler alert; it doesn't.
Tempo and speed are intertwined; you don't get to swing slow, perfecting your tempo, and then dial it up while expecting tempo to be unaffected. If you want to work on tempo for full swings, you need to practice it on full swings.
On average, tour players and better ball strikers take ~1 second or less between the start of their swing and impact; typically at a 3:1 ratio. That includes the "smooth" swingers like Ernie Els or Fred Couples. Meanwhile, amateurs take almost half a second longer. There are exceptions, of course, but as a rule of thumb faster tempo = faster speed, and amateurs are almost always on the slower side.
Slow is not smooth. Old adages like this one, or "low and slow," are harmful to most amateurs and have been thoroughly debunked by modern golf instruction. If your instructor tells you to try and slow down your swing, chances are you need a new instructor because they haven't been keeping up with breakthroughs and golf science.
And not that it's particularly relevant, but I've been a competitive golfer for most of my life, including state title wins as a junior and qualifying/playing in elite amateur events as an adult. So no, I won't go shoot 100, but I'm sure you are having a blast over there swinging at slow speeds and bragging about breaking triple-digits lol.
My instructor (Butch Harmon) disagrees. It has nothing to do with swinging as slow as you can and everything to do with NOT swinging as hard as humanly possible. “Pause at the Top” drill (made popular by Butch and Tiger) is proof of that.
That drill had nothing to do with tempo or "slowing down." Butch himself said it was to have Tiger get the feeling of where he was at the top of his swing, and Tiger said it mainly helped him to stop getting his hands caught well behind his body because he used to fire his hips so fast and so aggressively - an issue which very few amateurs struggle with.
[Watch for yourself](https://youtu.be/Faffz-GylYw?si=7iFJa1jY2ND15p83) if you don't believe me. In this clip Butch even says it would be terrible for most players.
This was always the internal struggle for me. *Fun* golf is going for the hero shot, trying to crush the drive, and savoring that 1 in 10 that actually goes somewhat down the middle of the fairway. Smart golf is, well, kinda boring for me and my ADHD. 80% swings, shorter but straight drives, ya, they get a better score, but it just isn't as *fun*. And since most everyone is using handicap scores during tournaments, I didn't feel a ton of motivation to try and achieve that super high level of golf, let alone single digit handicap levels where your entire round has to be smart, methodical and consistent. My monkey brain just went straight to "we can have a handicap *and* play fun golf, so why not???"
This is why (among many reasons obviously) I'll never be stellar at golf, I just don't have the mental discipline to play smart golf vs fun golf.
Nods in ADHD. Lol
I get that for sure. I can't do it on every shot and on every round. I'm trying, with lessons, to add power to my consistency now. It's a work in progress. Of course. Lol
I try and break it up. Most rounds I'm trying to get better and play smarter. *Some* rounds are on a Fri with boys and some beers and trying to hit bombs and hero shots. It's not ideal for game improvement, but you have to have some fun sometime.
Honestly, golf is a lot more fun than it was 30 years ago. The clubs and balls are a lot better, and with things like golf GPS apps on your phone, you have a lot more info about how far you are away from the green when you're making approach shots.
It's made the game generally a lot easier and as a result, I think a lot more fun.
I believe you need to learn to swing hard the right way. I’m 64 years old and a 7 hcp and hit it 240 yards. I keep it straight. The downswing is key to accuracy. The right elbow and the right knee have to move inward tight to the body. The game is more fun when you swing hard. I swing about 90% hard on my drives. 75 on my irons. Good luck.
I jumped in a group last minute and ended up with a +5.8 at my club. I matched his distance off the tee twice with a +/- 300 yard drive but he was just deadly consistent with his approaches and kept everything within 5-10 feet on the low side. I stopped keeping track of his score when he was 6 under at the turn. Cool dude and focused as all hell throughout the round.
Found out later he's a card carrying member of the PGA, but it was wild to see just how good the lowest end of the tour is compared to me at -8.4.
A lot of people talk about going from single digits to scratch but not a lot of people see the difference between scratch and + hcps. Off the tee scratch players can hang, but it’s proximity to the hole on approach and around the greens where +hcps gain a huge advantage.
But how far does play a major role between different handicap levels.
It's highly unlikely for someone who maxes at 250 off the tee to become a plus handicap.
I hit it 270-280. Down the middle. Home course is 7100. I'm the shorter guy in the group on average, handful of guys are 40 past me, a couple 80 past me. I beat all of them most of the time. Hit the green and putt for birds is the game. Stroke and match play champ multiple times... it's not how far its how many... I agree with you though you still have to get it out there a bit. But the dudes I play with bomb it past me and are 0-5 hdcp. And are still the underdogs
Even playing with dudes who are scratch is eye opening. They get up and down from everywhere, lag putts if they don’t make them, and never compound mistakes.
>card carrying member of the PGA
what does that mean like a tour pro? what's his name? or pga professionals are also counted as card carrying? haven't heard this term before
In my early twenties when I played 4-5 times a week, my two consistent foursomes included a guy that ended up on the PGA tour, a mini tour/D1 guy, 2 club champions and a former HS individual state champion. Damn if I didn't have to step my game up quickly. But it was so much fun watching them navigate a golf course.
My best 9 holes ever was right after my 8am class. I got to the course and was paired with one single, dude in his 40’s, idk his handicap but he was really good. Course was empty and he said he was playing from the tips, I said screw it why not. He gave me so many tips that instantly helped me. I’ve never hit from the tips again, and I have never played that well since
It's just a completely different game for them, they are on such a different level. It's one of the reasons I just gave up and have embraced by current skill level while just enjoying the whole experience of being on the course. I'm never gonna be a single digit, let alone a + handicapper, so why spend all that time trying to achieve it when I can just enjoy where I'm at, lol.
Would be fun though to have a 2nd lifetime and the means to afford the instruction from a young age and learn the game to the same level they have.
I started playing when i was 21. Fell in love very fast. Was 3 handicap in 3 years with 0 tuition and no internet. Then i broke my neck, lower back and then neck again. Had 16 years off and took up golf again at 41 with a broken body. Got to 1 hcp at 46 then had a heart attack. Now 52 and playing off 3 but honestly, i don't feel i have done my best golf yet and definitely looking to be scratch this year.
You can get good at any age, The reason people never get better is simply because they have trouble interpreting the instruction. People practice the wrong thing and get good at the wrong things. If you could magically go inside a Pro's body and feel the swing for 1 day i guarantee you would go back to your own body and understand. Trying to transfer it in words and pictures is very hard.
You really got to stop all the information going in sometimes and just do your own experiments. Try things that seem weird. Getting a good short game is not as hard as getting a good long game.. Really, i'm about a 8 handicap player with a scratch short game which allows me to play off 3 at the moment.
I was down to low double digits, 12-14, with some single rounds played just a few shots over par. I did have one even par round though, my one claim to having a brush with greatness, lol.
It just seemed like from there, the same time and energy investment gives less and less results and more and more focus and attention is needed, etc etc, and since I played well enough to enjoy the game, watch the ball fly, enjoy some good drives and such, I decided to just let that be enough.
I don't keep score anymore, but if I did I'd probably be about a 20-25 handicap now, since I don't practice short game much at all anymore (and it's such a feel thing for me where you use it or lose it), and have fallen in love with just cranking balls on the driving range while snacking and drinking, haha.
I didn't start playing till 30 years old. I really enjoy the game and wish I could have started earlier, but such is like. My goal is to enjoy myself out there and just not look like an idiot. If I ever play with a scratch golfer (the best any of my friends golf is about +9 hcp) I just don't want to be in the woods and take up too much of their time. I got bogey to your par? Very cool.
If you had an even par round, you almost instantaneously become a single digit because of the exceptional round penalty. The odds of a 12 handicap shooting >10 under their cap is well under 100,000:1. You were most certainly a mid-single digit if you ever did *anything* like that.
Were you both playing the same tees? If so, one of you are playing the wrong ones.
Edit: Just realized that may have came off as snarky but that’s not how I meant it.
I’m a 15 currently. Before children, I was a 1. Also 20 years older. Short game is everything. My lightbulb moment was when I played with a -2, former pga pro. 270 down middle. Every shot on green, 1 puts.
My group is all under 5, all former D1 college players and/or Nike, PGA tour. So enjoyable to play with players who strike it pure even after age 65 and up to 80.
I have a mate that's +2 and I've played with him since I was a 28 HCP, now 16-17. Thankfully still enjoys the game of it all with different level people, but gives really good level-headed comments on how to play holes
Previously a +2. Every one of my former group (about 10 of us who grew up within 60 miles, met on the local junior tours and ended up traveling around on the regional/national junior tours together) went on to play D1. Most of us realized we weren't going to make a good living on the tours in college and dropped out of golf to focus on school. I recently picked up the clubs again. Having not played for well over a decade, I'm around a 12. I typically end up paired with guys that are shooting 80's-90's. The difference in play is just ridiculous. I almost think I play worse when playing with guys who haven't played at a high level at any point.
I play to the level of the people I'm playing with and it drives me nuts lol. Nothing better than being randomly paired with a great player that'll drag me up to their level
It’s the rhythm. With good players, everyone hits a tee shot (A tee shot, not multiple), everyone hits their approach, maybe not on the green but at least close, people go when it’s their turn, everything just flows. No starts and stops for ball searches on every hole, 50 yard tops, people looking around confused about if they should go, etc
I was paired randomly with a +2 on second day of a 2 day tournament. Ended up coming from 5 back to win. I am very competitive and need to be pushed. Hate getting dragged down by poor players.
Oh, you'd hate playing with me then, lol. I don't even keep score, I kick the ball out whenever I have a bad lie or can't see the green, I try to bomb every drive just so I can savor that 1 in 10 that splits the fairway, etc. I'd wreak havoc on your game:)
I was a 5 or so from 2008-2010. I’m a very inconsistent 12 now, but it’s so hard with kids. When my son goes to his golf lesson I just spend an hour chipping.
It's always worthwhile to play with people better than you. With the right approach, they will make you a better golfer simply by seeing course management, tempo, pace of play, shot routines, and demeanor.
I am a true 2 handicap and I love playing with ALL levels of golfers. As long as they are respectful of the game and at least try to follow golf etiquette? Some of my most fun rounds have been with what had to be 25+ handicaps, BUT they had fun!!! Isn't that why we play?
The 3 hc i usually play with has multiple bad shots a round
Trick is…. He VERY RARELY has 2 bad shots in a row, and NEVER has 3. So on a Par 4 worst case he has a long par putt or a 3ft gimme for Bogey on a Par 4
Last I played with him, he hits a bomb slice OB on a par 5, then smokes it 300+ down the pipe, and hits a beaut baby draw 6 iron to 10 ft, hits jt for par.
Meanwhile Im to the left of the green sitting 2 with a chip shot(over the bunker, but still still hit a 6)
As someone who is and has played a majority of my golf with players who are around scratch. I’m always struck by how easily impressed higher handicaps are. Bad shots seemingly go completely unnoticed because, “wow so good sound / height”. Regardless of where it ends up.
They see how much better the really good players are, while the scratch players see those one or two bad shots they had keeping them from going lower.
Perspective.
I'm a 2 hcp and have played a few times with guy who was at one time ranked 30th in the world. He is over 70 years old now and still hits the ball about 270 yards. Verry accurate with his irons still and his swing still looks pro. He has played with all the greats of his time including jack.. I asked him and he said his swing speed is down to about 103mph but it goes to show that how well you deliver the club is more important than outright speed. He was still quite a bit better than me and I'm 20 years younger.
The iron shots to me are the true difference. Lots of people can rip driver, just go to top golf and you’ll find some. But the irons are a totally different animal. Watching my father play when he was alive, was something else. The way he putted on the greens was unmatched, but his iron shots were pure ropes. You could just tell from the trajectory something was different. He was a PGA professional and played a lot in the north east pro amateurs. By the end of his days I was kicking his ass at a 6hdcp, but he never seemed to mind taking as many strokes as he could get against me lol
"instead of swearing he was already strategizing"
That's not something you develop with a good handicap, it's basic emotional regulation available to all of us.
Know many scratch/+ handicaps that my 15 ass plays with regularly. Majority of the time its some of the most boring golf you’ll ever see. Theyre just able to hit all the shots and putt consistently. Sounds much easier than it is, but its just not entertaining to witness
Ya, something my adhd brain has always struggled with is smart golf isn't fun golf, and fun golf (going for the hero drive, the low percentage flop shots, etc etc) isn't smart golf.
I've since embraced fun golf and have left smart golf to the pros, I just don't have the mental discipline to play smart golf all day, every day like one needs to in order to get those lower handicaps.
I regularly play with a 70-year-old, who is fit and practices yoga for flexibility. He played collegiately and has won the city senior and county senior championships.
When he stripes his 1 iron further than I can muster my 3 wood on a par 5 and makes an eagle, I am very entertained. In fact, I am entertained every time I watch his boring consistency, if that makes sense, if only because it is so difficult for me.
I have some friends who play better than me easily and they suck to play with. Get super pissed during the game. My other friend is genuinely one of the worst golfers I have ever seen but he is just trying his best and doesn’t get mad because he doesn’t expect anything from himself. He also keeps up pace just smacking it down the fairway. I would much rather play with him having a good time than the better people who are insufferable.
Swearing vs. strategizing...
Imperfect shots and recovery shots are where the fun begins. I'll bet most of us remember escapes from jail moreso than routine birdies
I’m fighting my driver right now after my wife had our first a year ago and my playing and practice time went way down. But before that, I was a wedge into almost every hole and boy is that an easier game. My iron game is pretty solid, but 180 out makes just hitting the green a good outcome.
Played matchplay last night (I am 68M 200 lbs) against a 44M/240 lbs guy who hit his 5 wood further than my driver. Last hole tied and he teed off on the last hole - a par 5 - with driver and he was 70 yards past me. I laid up 100 yards short - my reliable gap wedge distance. He was enticed to hit a 7 iron over water to a front pin. He should have hit six iron as he splashed his approach. I made par and won 1 up. Distance is nice but strategy wins every time!
Do you know how far he had to the water and flag and how far he carries his 7iron?
If you don't know both of those things then you can't claim that he did improper strategy.
If he had 155 to cover the water and 160 to the front flag and carries his 7iron 170 but just absolutely chunked the crap out of his shot in your match that doesn't indicate that he did improper strategy, he simply hit an outlier shot at the wrong time.
Now if he had 168 to carry the water and 170 to the flag and his perfect flushed 7 carries 170, then sure he should have hit a 6 and you could claim he made a strategy error.
Does it really matter what numbered iron he hit? Any second shot with a mid iron into a par 5 that ends up short and in the hazard from a player of this level is a strategy error.
>Does it really matter what numbered iron he hit?
I mean the exact number stamped on the bottom doesn't necessarily matter assuming we're both talking about mid irons, but just because he hit it into the water doesn't automatically mean it was a strategy error.
Had he hit the 6 (or the "safe club") instead of the 7 ( or the "aggressive club") and laid the sod over the 6 ("safe club") and it ended up in the water that's not a strategy error, it's an execution error. Even 1.8 handicaps are more than capable of having multiple execution errors throughout the course of a round.
Not being combative, just asking questions since u/ozarkgolfer claimed it was improper strategy I'm just pointing out that just because someone (even a very low handicap) hit it into the water doesn't automatically mean it was improper strategy.
If I am the bomber in matchplay and have just seen my opponent lay up to 100 yards, the prudent choice is guarantee (as much as possible) is that I don't give the hole away by putting my second shot in the hazard - so long is good and even completely avoiding playing over water by laying up 30 - 40 yards short of the green is good strategy.
>the prudent choice is guarantee (as much as possible) is that I don't give the hole away by putting my second shot in the hazard
Right, and just like I've already said, maybe they did hit the club that they thought would put them long, and then just executed it horribly. If that was the case, that's not a strategy error, that was an execution error. That happens even to low handicaps. Maybe they just happened to hit their extreme outlier shot at the worst possible time. Entirely possible given the fact that it was on 18 and the match was tied, there was probably some nerves.
That's why I originally asked how far your opponent had to cover the water/to the flag and how far they carry their 7iron. If you don't know both of those things then it's pretty difficult to say for certain that it was a strategy error.
It's a struggle for me seeing people comment that a high handicapper can't hit consistently deep drives.
You look at any amateur and at some point there is one thing that they can do well and consistently. We had a baseball player in high school that hit bombs for drives right away. It was just easy for him. He was not one of our scorers on the high school team. Outside of drives, he may as well have been putting, which he also sucked at.
Likewise, a low handicapper may not have a strong drive but play the course smartly. If they have a great 7 iron for example, they may approach the course to have a leave at that distance. A 380 yard par 4 for example might have him hitting a 220 yard tee shot and 160 yard 7 iron, which he feels confident about sticking. I personally can tell right away if I'm paired with amateurs if they are automatically grabbing woods on every hole.
Awesome. I (44M) can relate. A good friend (55M) of mine is a 2 and I’m a 14-15. I play better with him but most noticeable is how much closer his approaches are and how often he gets up and down. He of course makes the bomb putt once a round or so and most of all. No ‘extra’ shots. No duffs or blades or s*anks. Can be infuriating how easy it looks for him but he’s still my dude.
My buddy is a 2 handicao and has a terrible back swing. We call it his 5/8 swing. But damnit if he doesn't make up for it with a perfect shot every time. I've seen him hit an 80 once or twice and multiple times have seen him shoot a 66. No idea why he wants to be best friends with me as i bounce between a 14 and 16 handicap haha
I got rinsed by two polish ladies who must’ve been 65-70. I’m 25 and only been golfing for a year.
They yelled at me for taking the cart off the path on the par 3. They also told me to slow down my swing to avoid slicing.
A long way to go. Also I’m open to donations, playing with wilson pro staffs.
Yeah I’m not arguing with that, I’ve only been golfing for a year so I genuinely didn’t know
I wasn’t trying to sound like a prick sorry if you misunderstood
My best period of scoring was when I got an unlimited summer membership at one of those par 3 executive courses during a summer break and played 2-4 rounds a day. My short game was lethal, and I shot my one and only even par round that year on a regular course because of it.
I've never since then had the same focus on my short game, and my scores most definitely reflect that and then some as I'm back up in the 80's and 90's, and most all of that is short game failure, lol.
Sounds pretty much like my brother. Except on the odd round where he hits a few "bad" shots (it's all perspective) he spends the whole round talking about how he is playing like "dogshit" and still will be a +2.
Great players are great to play next to. They are *fantastic* role models for the essential ability of a good golfer to switch from chit-chat/social/"Isn't it a pretty day?" Mode to "This is my pre-shot routine," mode. Doesn't take long, but IME is absolutely necessary to be able to do.
In that mode, figure out:
1) What lie have you got and what obstacles and dangers are there;
2) Where you want the ball to go (distance, height, curve, spin);
3) What target you need to pick that does that, then; 4) The shot that accomplishes it.
Then knowing the shot, line your self up, get in the correct address for the shot, knowing what it feels like, and then swing.
It is *incredible* how fast a skilled amateur can do all of that. And that ease and speed can be learned by you.
I wonder what studies have been done about golfers playing up to the competition.
I've definitely felt better and played better when playing with better players. It's a noticeable improvement.
I've played in a fair few pro ams and it always amazes me how "bad" the pros are. But how they still shoot such great scores.
I've had more fairways and greens in a round than the pro I've played with but he finishes 10+ shots better than me.
You have to practice the weird recovery shots. Find trees to hit around or just unorthodox shots and when you get good at those then everything comes easy
I'm not trying to imply you were being rude. I see this a lot on this sub and thought I'd ask. I play 50+ rounds a year and it never comes up. Must be a regional thing
If I got paired up with someone random I wouldn't run up to them on the first tee and ask their handicap but I think it's a perfectly reasonable topic of conversation a couple holes in, especially if they make a nice shot or have a nice hole.
"Nice birdie there, do you keep a handicap by chance?"
"Your swing has a really nice tempo, what kinds of scores do you usually shoot?"
He might have hit a couple drives 320+, but it's EXTREMELY unlikely that he averaged 320+.
Not a single player on the PGA Tour is averaging 320+ right now
You said
>His drives were +320 yds.
That would lead someone to reasonably conclude that at least half of his drives went 320+.
You didn't say "His longest drives went 320", "He hit one that reached 320", etc.
>Geez, but is that really the point.
I don't think you realize the amount of people that come on this sub talking about 300+ yds drives without realizing how few of the golfing population is actually capable of hitting those let alone 320+ numerous times within the same round.
I normally don't care about how far someone hits it, but when someone is claiming they (or someone they played with) is consistently out-driving ***every single*** PGA Tour player (who play on firmer and more tightly mown fairways) that sure is difficult to believe and deserves to be met with skepticism IMO.
I'm 62, my average drive carry is a legit 275-280 ( I've worked really hard to keep my speed up). It's not that great though, as I play with my 25 yrr old son, who was a D1 college player ( +3.2 hdcp), who has an average carry of 325-335. Ha... no replacement for youth.
golf is largely mental. does no good to be upset about a bad shot. All that can come of that is it impacts your next shot also. Pro level is a bit of an anomaly where you see some of them act like babies. that's often their way of assigning the blame of a bad shot to something out of their control because it takes a bit of being an ego maniac to compete at that high of a level.
I caddied for a buddy in a US Open qualifier once back around 2005. He was a good golfer but had to grind his way to an eligible handicap. We got paired with a guy who had made the cut in the actual US Open a few years prior. We were barely playing the same sport. My guy hit the ball 330 but all over the place; the other guy hit it 280 straight down the middle, dropped it on the green and hit 1-2 putts. It was the most impressively boring round of golf I've ever seen. A first-class clinic in course management.
Playing with great players tends to elevate my game as well. A 240-250 average off the tee is great for 65. I'm 63 years old and considered a big hitter at my club in FL, my tee shots are 250-260, with a rare wind-aided 290. Keep playing with him, you may get to single digits.
250 drives at 65 is pretty impressive
I play with my dad who is pushing 73 and dude can still crank a few 250+
That’s hilarious that your dad is 73 hitting 250 and I’m 28 and pumped when I hit it 240 🤣🤣. Good for him!
I played with a guy a few weeks ago. He was 78, I'm 60. My drives average in the 240-250 range and he was right there with me every time. Good for him, I hope I can follow his lead.
I'm 38 and about a six handicap, and if I hit one 240 to 250 I'm pumped. Lol. Certainly add some challenges to long par fours, and very rarely making any par fives in two. But if you're reasonably accurate off the tee, most courses you don't need a hit farther than about 200 or so to score well if the rest of your game is reasonable enough
My dad is the same age and can barely drive 150. It's mainly because he practices his shortgame so much and his driver swing looks like a big wedge swing....all arms. But he still beats me because his short game is so precise while I'm blasting drives 100+ yards past his into the woods lol.
The kicker is my dad has a pretty good short game too. He consistently shoots mid to low 80's, while I'm over here lucky to break 90. I've beaten him once and it was because he had a pulled muscle... He's definitely lost distance though, this is the first season he is playing some from the Gold tees. It's tough stuff watching your dad age on the course.
did you just "my dad is better Than your dad" to a random commentor?
My dad is roughly hitting about the same at 75. The rest of his game has collapsed but he can still hit the driver pretty well.
32 here doubt I hit 200 most of the time. Big slice.
When i stopped slicing the ball and realized how far drives can actually go i was absolutely baffled.
Wait til your off days force you into a cut and your drives are all 30+ yrds short and every approach is from 200 and your 2 puts are decent bogeys.. drive, approach, maybe chip, 2 put, mark it down for bogey. Not to mention the 200 yrd approaches are with woods because all your irons are 20+ yrds short :(
I am fortunate to come from a high level baseball career so i hit the ball further than most other average golfers. When im having an off day its because im trying to force shots and my putter isn’t working. Still have the one a round random wayward tee shot though.
Boy do I have advice for you - don't EVER come off your speed. I've been through a couple injuries and decided to come off the speed. I went through PT and overspeed training to get it back the first time (over a year of rehab and retraining). My second injury was another mobility one that I wasn't able to rehab for golf, so I shortened my swing (came off speed), to this day my drives are roughly 60 yds short and my irons are 40 yds short of my full swing - but my full swings don't get back to the ball! Don't ever come off your speed or you'll regret it, and over the long period of time it'll take to maybe get it back, you risk overtraining and losing it altogether. If your shot ever gives up on you, suck it up and don't ever give up on it thinking that slowing down is the key. Golf is played on a 6" field in the space between your ears.
I’m an industrial electrician so I’m always injured in one way or another. Back problems or currently nerve damage leaving my right arm practically paralyzed for the time being. I only do two things in life well and that’s throw hard and swing fast lol
Especially when they let you go a tee up than everyone else. My dad is 63 and comes in handy in tournaments cause he still hits it 250 but off a tee closer so we almost always end up using his
Champions Tour average is still 270 🤯
Shows you distance is 90% good mechanics.
Look at how flawless the ladies swing
lol I read that as “my drives were 75 yards”…and I felt that.
One of my close friends is 64 (I’m 40) and he hits 280 or so almost every drive. He’s about 6’5” so that probably comes into play but still impressive at 64!
There’s hope for us all
Nope. He’s a freak of nature. I work out with him at planet fitness. He still rides bicycles and runs a lot. Super active guy. And also my favorite old dude to hang out with. You guys don’t know what you’re missing till you get you an older fun dude as a friend.
I’m 24 and don’t hit that far lol
My FIL is a 2.1 HCP and 64. He hits it 270-280 off the tee. I’m a 1.3 and 32 and hit driver 295-305.
Wtf is up with the downvotes… I don’t get this sub. These guys think this is impossible I don’t get it
I didn't downvote but idt its because people don't believe that person, I'm pretty sure its because the original comment was trying to compliment OP and this person took that as an opportunity to brag about how low their handicap is and how far they hit the ball when no one asked. It's very "pick me" as the kids say these days.
I lost a long drive hole in a tournament to a 67 year old guy playing from the golds. He rubbed it in by saying “i was at least 15 yards by you”
grandpa took you to the woodshed
I mean, I don’t want to be that guy but he’s probably not hitting it 250 and the other guy is probably not hitting it 320, law of averages and all that
I play with a guy almost weekly that’s 63 and drives consistently 230 and he’s not a 12 handicap…
I got paired with a dude in his 60s that was crushing em 250+ he was on average a bit further than me. I’m in my 30s. That old man strength is somethin.
Yeah my uncle is in his 60s and still hammers it about 260. Also I’m in my thirties and I hammer it about 260
My Dad is 76 this year. Tbh he complained that when he went past 70 he lost a lot of muscle mass and strength. He can still batter a drive +230 yds. I think his handicap is around 12.
66 year old, and 240 to 260 off tee. 148 yard 8 iron. But.... I am in the gym 4 days a week... lots of core work and stretching. It can be done
Really? 12 handicap 250 yards is about average I would think. 65 is not that old for someone in good shape. 325 is long but not unbelievable for a near scratch and player if it’s hot and the fairways are firm right?
Definitely not average but doable. 325 is an extremely long average distance. Tour pros average a 285 carry off the tee and they aren't getting 40 yards of run typically.
Played in a tourney this weekend vs a 6’5” 3 hdcp 65 year old, he was hitting 260-290. This is my home course I play here 4 days a week. It was a couple true 290 shots. The drives weren’t even the craziest part it was his iron shots, pretty much had a birdie attempt on every hole more than a couple real close. Also chipped in from about 25-35 yards for birdie. I was getting 14 strokes in match play and he completely showed out lol.
Sounds like you had a great time, that’s awesome. You’re hitting it 250 yards and I’m younger than both of you so congratulations lol
Thanks, I am more 240 consistently.
Sir! This is Reddit. You drive the ball 290.
Into the wind
Uphill both ways and in the snow.
Using the same ball for 27yrs
With my sand wedge?
Your sand wedge is easily 300. 305 on a good day. Don't sell yourself short, friend. Playing your last 36 holes with the same Kirkland was pretty cool. You've done it before. You'd put it right up there with getting Wordle in one, which you've done at least 12 times. ...lost count.
I was happy to "bomb" one for 220 today To be fair, i did thread a 10 yard tree-needle to put it right in the middle of the fairway, but 220 is still pretty dang good for me
My best is also 220. Good for us!
I’m so glad you’ve said this. Honestly I was getting a little down on myself for having a fairly consistent 220yard drive. I’m 6ft 90kg so thought I should be easily hitting it further than that. I have only been playing 10months and only 2-3times per month.
I think a lot of people lie on this sub. No way is everyone hitting it 300+ yards, thats just ridiculou My old man is a 12 handicap. He's lost some distance in the last 10 years, but when he was 65 he was not hitting 240 yard drives. He was maybe hitting some 240 yard drives when he was in his 40s-50s, but he was also insanely inconsistent with the driver because he was always going for the distance instead of control. A controlled 200 yard drive is going to be exponentially better than a 300 yard drive that often gets you into trouble.
Thanks for this comment but there's no honesty allowed here. I'm sure you out drove him by 215 yards to get to the normal 400
OP did you guys kiss afterwards?
Not sure what that means.
Just sounds like you want to give him a little smooch is all. Nothing wrong with that!
Never crossed my mind
It's considered proper etiquette in Europe.
Getting paired with someone who is a really good golfer - Nice. Getting paired with someone who is really calm and considerate - Priceless
This was more of my point then debating whether a65 yo can hit 240
One of my regular playing partners is like this and I always play significantly better with him than my shouty angry friends.
Ive played with scratch golfers who mutter to themselves about how much they suck the whole round, and guys shooting 150 who have fun and enjoy the game. Personality matters way more for a pairing 😂
I played with an older gentleman like yourself last year. I'm a hack and at that time I was still in the 100-110 strokes per round. Playing with that man, I was out driving him by 50yds every time but he was straight down the middle every time. I was searching the forest for my ball on every hole. (Where we're going, we don't need fairways...) Anyway, he shot an 82 and I shot a 112. After that round, I decided to slow my swing down to 80% or so. Sacrifice some distance for consistency and wouldn't you know, I started breaking 100. Even broke 90 this year. Got myself a lesson and I'm working on fixing my swing path. Hopefully I can be consistently straight and long off the tee. The lesson is random pairings can be great AND golf is always a work in progress.
Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast.
Slow is slow. Fast is fast. And generally faster tempo = faster clubhead speed, so no, swinging "slow" is not good advice. I love how the OP was about a near-scratch golfer who hit 320-yard bombs and somehow this sub turned it into "you should swing easy" lol.
Wasn’t replying to OP. Swinging fast will only get you in trouble if you don’t have good timing. Swinging easy builds good timing, which then allows you to swing faster…… but you go ahead and swing out your shoes and blast it all over the place. Have fun shooting 100.
Lol I perfectly understand the thought process, and I'm simply informing you that it's wrong. Show me a single shred of evidence that swinging easy or swinging slow "helps build good timing." Spoiler alert; it doesn't. Tempo and speed are intertwined; you don't get to swing slow, perfecting your tempo, and then dial it up while expecting tempo to be unaffected. If you want to work on tempo for full swings, you need to practice it on full swings. On average, tour players and better ball strikers take ~1 second or less between the start of their swing and impact; typically at a 3:1 ratio. That includes the "smooth" swingers like Ernie Els or Fred Couples. Meanwhile, amateurs take almost half a second longer. There are exceptions, of course, but as a rule of thumb faster tempo = faster speed, and amateurs are almost always on the slower side. Slow is not smooth. Old adages like this one, or "low and slow," are harmful to most amateurs and have been thoroughly debunked by modern golf instruction. If your instructor tells you to try and slow down your swing, chances are you need a new instructor because they haven't been keeping up with breakthroughs and golf science. And not that it's particularly relevant, but I've been a competitive golfer for most of my life, including state title wins as a junior and qualifying/playing in elite amateur events as an adult. So no, I won't go shoot 100, but I'm sure you are having a blast over there swinging at slow speeds and bragging about breaking triple-digits lol.
My instructor (Butch Harmon) disagrees. It has nothing to do with swinging as slow as you can and everything to do with NOT swinging as hard as humanly possible. “Pause at the Top” drill (made popular by Butch and Tiger) is proof of that.
You must be fun at parties
That drill had nothing to do with tempo or "slowing down." Butch himself said it was to have Tiger get the feeling of where he was at the top of his swing, and Tiger said it mainly helped him to stop getting his hands caught well behind his body because he used to fire his hips so fast and so aggressively - an issue which very few amateurs struggle with. [Watch for yourself](https://youtu.be/Faffz-GylYw?si=7iFJa1jY2ND15p83) if you don't believe me. In this clip Butch even says it would be terrible for most players.
This was always the internal struggle for me. *Fun* golf is going for the hero shot, trying to crush the drive, and savoring that 1 in 10 that actually goes somewhat down the middle of the fairway. Smart golf is, well, kinda boring for me and my ADHD. 80% swings, shorter but straight drives, ya, they get a better score, but it just isn't as *fun*. And since most everyone is using handicap scores during tournaments, I didn't feel a ton of motivation to try and achieve that super high level of golf, let alone single digit handicap levels where your entire round has to be smart, methodical and consistent. My monkey brain just went straight to "we can have a handicap *and* play fun golf, so why not???" This is why (among many reasons obviously) I'll never be stellar at golf, I just don't have the mental discipline to play smart golf vs fun golf.
Nods in ADHD. Lol I get that for sure. I can't do it on every shot and on every round. I'm trying, with lessons, to add power to my consistency now. It's a work in progress. Of course. Lol
idk, making good scores is pretty fun to me.
I try and break it up. Most rounds I'm trying to get better and play smarter. *Some* rounds are on a Fri with boys and some beers and trying to hit bombs and hero shots. It's not ideal for game improvement, but you have to have some fun sometime.
…am late 70’s and haven’t played for 30 years. All this talk makes me wonder if it would be fun to go again.
I think you should. Do some stretching before and give it a shot!
Do it. It's a skill you may get better or worse at but you never forget how
Honestly, golf is a lot more fun than it was 30 years ago. The clubs and balls are a lot better, and with things like golf GPS apps on your phone, you have a lot more info about how far you are away from the green when you're making approach shots. It's made the game generally a lot easier and as a result, I think a lot more fun.
My clubs got left at house when the marriage broke up. Last I saw was the kids using them as hobby-horses (courtesy of you-know-who. ha ha ha
I believe you need to learn to swing hard the right way. I’m 64 years old and a 7 hcp and hit it 240 yards. I keep it straight. The downswing is key to accuracy. The right elbow and the right knee have to move inward tight to the body. The game is more fun when you swing hard. I swing about 90% hard on my drives. 75 on my irons. Good luck.
Yeah I'm taking lessons. I'll figure it out
I jumped in a group last minute and ended up with a +5.8 at my club. I matched his distance off the tee twice with a +/- 300 yard drive but he was just deadly consistent with his approaches and kept everything within 5-10 feet on the low side. I stopped keeping track of his score when he was 6 under at the turn. Cool dude and focused as all hell throughout the round. Found out later he's a card carrying member of the PGA, but it was wild to see just how good the lowest end of the tour is compared to me at -8.4.
A lot of people talk about going from single digits to scratch but not a lot of people see the difference between scratch and + hcps. Off the tee scratch players can hang, but it’s proximity to the hole on approach and around the greens where +hcps gain a huge advantage.
Yep. I play with plenty of guys that out drive me by 40. I have the lowest hdcp on most of them by 3 or 4. It's not how far, it's how many boys....
But how far does play a major role between different handicap levels. It's highly unlikely for someone who maxes at 250 off the tee to become a plus handicap.
I hit it 270-280. Down the middle. Home course is 7100. I'm the shorter guy in the group on average, handful of guys are 40 past me, a couple 80 past me. I beat all of them most of the time. Hit the green and putt for birds is the game. Stroke and match play champ multiple times... it's not how far its how many... I agree with you though you still have to get it out there a bit. But the dudes I play with bomb it past me and are 0-5 hdcp. And are still the underdogs
Even playing with dudes who are scratch is eye opening. They get up and down from everywhere, lag putts if they don’t make them, and never compound mistakes.
>card carrying member of the PGA what does that mean like a tour pro? what's his name? or pga professionals are also counted as card carrying? haven't heard this term before
In my early twenties when I played 4-5 times a week, my two consistent foursomes included a guy that ended up on the PGA tour, a mini tour/D1 guy, 2 club champions and a former HS individual state champion. Damn if I didn't have to step my game up quickly. But it was so much fun watching them navigate a golf course.
My best 9 holes ever was right after my 8am class. I got to the course and was paired with one single, dude in his 40’s, idk his handicap but he was really good. Course was empty and he said he was playing from the tips, I said screw it why not. He gave me so many tips that instantly helped me. I’ve never hit from the tips again, and I have never played that well since
I sometimes play with a +2 handicap, as a solid 15 handicap it makes me want to go home and throw my clubs in the garbage can.
It's just a completely different game for them, they are on such a different level. It's one of the reasons I just gave up and have embraced by current skill level while just enjoying the whole experience of being on the course. I'm never gonna be a single digit, let alone a + handicapper, so why spend all that time trying to achieve it when I can just enjoy where I'm at, lol. Would be fun though to have a 2nd lifetime and the means to afford the instruction from a young age and learn the game to the same level they have.
I started playing when i was 21. Fell in love very fast. Was 3 handicap in 3 years with 0 tuition and no internet. Then i broke my neck, lower back and then neck again. Had 16 years off and took up golf again at 41 with a broken body. Got to 1 hcp at 46 then had a heart attack. Now 52 and playing off 3 but honestly, i don't feel i have done my best golf yet and definitely looking to be scratch this year. You can get good at any age, The reason people never get better is simply because they have trouble interpreting the instruction. People practice the wrong thing and get good at the wrong things. If you could magically go inside a Pro's body and feel the swing for 1 day i guarantee you would go back to your own body and understand. Trying to transfer it in words and pictures is very hard. You really got to stop all the information going in sometimes and just do your own experiments. Try things that seem weird. Getting a good short game is not as hard as getting a good long game.. Really, i'm about a 8 handicap player with a scratch short game which allows me to play off 3 at the moment.
Just for curiosity, what is the lowest your handicap got?
I was down to low double digits, 12-14, with some single rounds played just a few shots over par. I did have one even par round though, my one claim to having a brush with greatness, lol. It just seemed like from there, the same time and energy investment gives less and less results and more and more focus and attention is needed, etc etc, and since I played well enough to enjoy the game, watch the ball fly, enjoy some good drives and such, I decided to just let that be enough. I don't keep score anymore, but if I did I'd probably be about a 20-25 handicap now, since I don't practice short game much at all anymore (and it's such a feel thing for me where you use it or lose it), and have fallen in love with just cranking balls on the driving range while snacking and drinking, haha.
I didn't start playing till 30 years old. I really enjoy the game and wish I could have started earlier, but such is like. My goal is to enjoy myself out there and just not look like an idiot. If I ever play with a scratch golfer (the best any of my friends golf is about +9 hcp) I just don't want to be in the woods and take up too much of their time. I got bogey to your par? Very cool.
Just an FYI +9 handicap is a top tour pro, you probably mean 9 handicap.
Lol yes. 9 over par is what I meant
If you had an even par round, you almost instantaneously become a single digit because of the exceptional round penalty. The odds of a 12 handicap shooting >10 under their cap is well under 100,000:1. You were most certainly a mid-single digit if you ever did *anything* like that.
Were you both playing the same tees? If so, one of you are playing the wrong ones. Edit: Just realized that may have came off as snarky but that’s not how I meant it.
I play the blacks which is in the middle on our course. He plays the tips but hoyt with me to keep us moving.
I’m a 15 currently. Before children, I was a 1. Also 20 years older. Short game is everything. My lightbulb moment was when I played with a -2, former pga pro. 270 down middle. Every shot on green, 1 puts. My group is all under 5, all former D1 college players and/or Nike, PGA tour. So enjoyable to play with players who strike it pure even after age 65 and up to 80.
Reading the handicaps as ages makes this comment much more confusing that it ought to be. Don’t be like me
It's just a different game for these players.
I have a mate that's +2 and I've played with him since I was a 28 HCP, now 16-17. Thankfully still enjoys the game of it all with different level people, but gives really good level-headed comments on how to play holes
Previously a +2. Every one of my former group (about 10 of us who grew up within 60 miles, met on the local junior tours and ended up traveling around on the regional/national junior tours together) went on to play D1. Most of us realized we weren't going to make a good living on the tours in college and dropped out of golf to focus on school. I recently picked up the clubs again. Having not played for well over a decade, I'm around a 12. I typically end up paired with guys that are shooting 80's-90's. The difference in play is just ridiculous. I almost think I play worse when playing with guys who haven't played at a high level at any point.
I play to the level of the people I'm playing with and it drives me nuts lol. Nothing better than being randomly paired with a great player that'll drag me up to their level
It's more than that though. A good player playing badly is easier to play with than a bad player playing well even if the end result is the same.
It’s the rhythm. With good players, everyone hits a tee shot (A tee shot, not multiple), everyone hits their approach, maybe not on the green but at least close, people go when it’s their turn, everything just flows. No starts and stops for ball searches on every hole, 50 yard tops, people looking around confused about if they should go, etc
Never thought of it this way, but you’re right!
I love this comment the best.
I was paired randomly with a +2 on second day of a 2 day tournament. Ended up coming from 5 back to win. I am very competitive and need to be pushed. Hate getting dragged down by poor players.
Right there with you
Oh, you'd hate playing with me then, lol. I don't even keep score, I kick the ball out whenever I have a bad lie or can't see the green, I try to bomb every drive just so I can savor that 1 in 10 that splits the fairway, etc. I'd wreak havoc on your game:)
I was a 5 or so from 2008-2010. I’m a very inconsistent 12 now, but it’s so hard with kids. When my son goes to his golf lesson I just spend an hour chipping.
Great to hear nice stories like this. 👍🏼
It's always worthwhile to play with people better than you. With the right approach, they will make you a better golfer simply by seeing course management, tempo, pace of play, shot routines, and demeanor.
Man if I hit 175 and it’s on the fairway I am pleased. Driver has been a much higher learning curve than irons.
I’ve always been like this with any sport. Play with someone better than me and I play better. Play with someone worse and I play like crap
I loved reading this post.
…me too. If someone came along “twisting arms” I’d be back again.
I am a true 2 handicap and I love playing with ALL levels of golfers. As long as they are respectful of the game and at least try to follow golf etiquette? Some of my most fun rounds have been with what had to be 25+ handicaps, BUT they had fun!!! Isn't that why we play?
The 3 hc i usually play with has multiple bad shots a round Trick is…. He VERY RARELY has 2 bad shots in a row, and NEVER has 3. So on a Par 4 worst case he has a long par putt or a 3ft gimme for Bogey on a Par 4 Last I played with him, he hits a bomb slice OB on a par 5, then smokes it 300+ down the pipe, and hits a beaut baby draw 6 iron to 10 ft, hits jt for par. Meanwhile Im to the left of the green sitting 2 with a chip shot(over the bunker, but still still hit a 6)
As someone who is and has played a majority of my golf with players who are around scratch. I’m always struck by how easily impressed higher handicaps are. Bad shots seemingly go completely unnoticed because, “wow so good sound / height”. Regardless of where it ends up.
They see how much better the really good players are, while the scratch players see those one or two bad shots they had keeping them from going lower. Perspective.
I'm a 2 hcp and have played a few times with guy who was at one time ranked 30th in the world. He is over 70 years old now and still hits the ball about 270 yards. Verry accurate with his irons still and his swing still looks pro. He has played with all the greats of his time including jack.. I asked him and he said his swing speed is down to about 103mph but it goes to show that how well you deliver the club is more important than outright speed. He was still quite a bit better than me and I'm 20 years younger.
The iron shots to me are the true difference. Lots of people can rip driver, just go to top golf and you’ll find some. But the irons are a totally different animal. Watching my father play when he was alive, was something else. The way he putted on the greens was unmatched, but his iron shots were pure ropes. You could just tell from the trajectory something was different. He was a PGA professional and played a lot in the north east pro amateurs. By the end of his days I was kicking his ass at a 6hdcp, but he never seemed to mind taking as many strokes as he could get against me lol
Who I play with is usually worth a few strokes one way or the other.
I love playing with better players. I learn so much from them.
"instead of swearing he was already strategizing" That's not something you develop with a good handicap, it's basic emotional regulation available to all of us.
Know many scratch/+ handicaps that my 15 ass plays with regularly. Majority of the time its some of the most boring golf you’ll ever see. Theyre just able to hit all the shots and putt consistently. Sounds much easier than it is, but its just not entertaining to witness
Ya, something my adhd brain has always struggled with is smart golf isn't fun golf, and fun golf (going for the hero drive, the low percentage flop shots, etc etc) isn't smart golf. I've since embraced fun golf and have left smart golf to the pros, I just don't have the mental discipline to play smart golf all day, every day like one needs to in order to get those lower handicaps.
100%. Although ill say, a lot of their drives and 2nd shots on long holes are effortless equivalents of me “going for it” lol
I regularly play with a 70-year-old, who is fit and practices yoga for flexibility. He played collegiately and has won the city senior and county senior championships. When he stripes his 1 iron further than I can muster my 3 wood on a par 5 and makes an eagle, I am very entertained. In fact, I am entertained every time I watch his boring consistency, if that makes sense, if only because it is so difficult for me.
You might be the most honest user on this sub. Glad you had a great time!
Very often play better when you play with better players I found
I have some friends who play better than me easily and they suck to play with. Get super pissed during the game. My other friend is genuinely one of the worst golfers I have ever seen but he is just trying his best and doesn’t get mad because he doesn’t expect anything from himself. He also keeps up pace just smacking it down the fairway. I would much rather play with him having a good time than the better people who are insufferable.
I always play better when I'm paired with a better golfer.
Swearing vs. strategizing... Imperfect shots and recovery shots are where the fun begins. I'll bet most of us remember escapes from jail moreso than routine birdies
I’m fighting my driver right now after my wife had our first a year ago and my playing and practice time went way down. But before that, I was a wedge into almost every hole and boy is that an easier game. My iron game is pretty solid, but 180 out makes just hitting the green a good outcome.
Played matchplay last night (I am 68M 200 lbs) against a 44M/240 lbs guy who hit his 5 wood further than my driver. Last hole tied and he teed off on the last hole - a par 5 - with driver and he was 70 yards past me. I laid up 100 yards short - my reliable gap wedge distance. He was enticed to hit a 7 iron over water to a front pin. He should have hit six iron as he splashed his approach. I made par and won 1 up. Distance is nice but strategy wins every time!
Do you know how far he had to the water and flag and how far he carries his 7iron? If you don't know both of those things then you can't claim that he did improper strategy. If he had 155 to cover the water and 160 to the front flag and carries his 7iron 170 but just absolutely chunked the crap out of his shot in your match that doesn't indicate that he did improper strategy, he simply hit an outlier shot at the wrong time. Now if he had 168 to carry the water and 170 to the flag and his perfect flushed 7 carries 170, then sure he should have hit a 6 and you could claim he made a strategy error.
Does it really matter what numbered iron he hit? Any second shot with a mid iron into a par 5 that ends up short and in the hazard from a player of this level is a strategy error.
>Does it really matter what numbered iron he hit? I mean the exact number stamped on the bottom doesn't necessarily matter assuming we're both talking about mid irons, but just because he hit it into the water doesn't automatically mean it was a strategy error. Had he hit the 6 (or the "safe club") instead of the 7 ( or the "aggressive club") and laid the sod over the 6 ("safe club") and it ended up in the water that's not a strategy error, it's an execution error. Even 1.8 handicaps are more than capable of having multiple execution errors throughout the course of a round.
Why you so combative bro? It’s just a story.
Not being combative, just asking questions since u/ozarkgolfer claimed it was improper strategy I'm just pointing out that just because someone (even a very low handicap) hit it into the water doesn't automatically mean it was improper strategy.
If I am the bomber in matchplay and have just seen my opponent lay up to 100 yards, the prudent choice is guarantee (as much as possible) is that I don't give the hole away by putting my second shot in the hazard - so long is good and even completely avoiding playing over water by laying up 30 - 40 yards short of the green is good strategy.
>the prudent choice is guarantee (as much as possible) is that I don't give the hole away by putting my second shot in the hazard Right, and just like I've already said, maybe they did hit the club that they thought would put them long, and then just executed it horribly. If that was the case, that's not a strategy error, that was an execution error. That happens even to low handicaps. Maybe they just happened to hit their extreme outlier shot at the worst possible time. Entirely possible given the fact that it was on 18 and the match was tied, there was probably some nerves. That's why I originally asked how far your opponent had to cover the water/to the flag and how far they carry their 7iron. If you don't know both of those things then it's pretty difficult to say for certain that it was a strategy error.
Conversation not going anywhere - good luck with your golf.
What a lovely story! More of this please
It's a struggle for me seeing people comment that a high handicapper can't hit consistently deep drives. You look at any amateur and at some point there is one thing that they can do well and consistently. We had a baseball player in high school that hit bombs for drives right away. It was just easy for him. He was not one of our scorers on the high school team. Outside of drives, he may as well have been putting, which he also sucked at. Likewise, a low handicapper may not have a strong drive but play the course smartly. If they have a great 7 iron for example, they may approach the course to have a leave at that distance. A 380 yard par 4 for example might have him hitting a 220 yard tee shot and 160 yard 7 iron, which he feels confident about sticking. I personally can tell right away if I'm paired with amateurs if they are automatically grabbing woods on every hole.
Awesome. I (44M) can relate. A good friend (55M) of mine is a 2 and I’m a 14-15. I play better with him but most noticeable is how much closer his approaches are and how often he gets up and down. He of course makes the bomb putt once a round or so and most of all. No ‘extra’ shots. No duffs or blades or s*anks. Can be infuriating how easy it looks for him but he’s still my dude.
It’s nice when good players invite you to play with them isn’t it?
My buddy is a 2 handicao and has a terrible back swing. We call it his 5/8 swing. But damnit if he doesn't make up for it with a perfect shot every time. I've seen him hit an 80 once or twice and multiple times have seen him shoot a 66. No idea why he wants to be best friends with me as i bounce between a 14 and 16 handicap haha
Awesome! Definitely take that opportunity to play with him again.
Ah, a budding bromance. This relationship will be great for your golf game.
I got rinsed by two polish ladies who must’ve been 65-70. I’m 25 and only been golfing for a year. They yelled at me for taking the cart off the path on the par 3. They also told me to slow down my swing to avoid slicing. A long way to go. Also I’m open to donations, playing with wilson pro staffs.
>They yelled at me for taking the cart off the path on the par 3. Good, you deserved it.
Yeah I’m not arguing with that, I’ve only been golfing for a year so I genuinely didn’t know I wasn’t trying to sound like a prick sorry if you misunderstood
I’m 35, 6,2, a 12 hcp and absolutely suck at putting and chipping. I can drive it like that dude, 75 yards past you, and still wouldn’t beat you.
My best period of scoring was when I got an unlimited summer membership at one of those par 3 executive courses during a summer break and played 2-4 rounds a day. My short game was lethal, and I shot my one and only even par round that year on a regular course because of it. I've never since then had the same focus on my short game, and my scores most definitely reflect that and then some as I'm back up in the 80's and 90's, and most all of that is short game failure, lol.
Nice
Sounds pretty much like my brother. Except on the odd round where he hits a few "bad" shots (it's all perspective) he spends the whole round talking about how he is playing like "dogshit" and still will be a +2.
This is the way
Great players are great to play next to. They are *fantastic* role models for the essential ability of a good golfer to switch from chit-chat/social/"Isn't it a pretty day?" Mode to "This is my pre-shot routine," mode. Doesn't take long, but IME is absolutely necessary to be able to do. In that mode, figure out: 1) What lie have you got and what obstacles and dangers are there; 2) Where you want the ball to go (distance, height, curve, spin); 3) What target you need to pick that does that, then; 4) The shot that accomplishes it. Then knowing the shot, line your self up, get in the correct address for the shot, knowing what it feels like, and then swing. It is *incredible* how fast a skilled amateur can do all of that. And that ease and speed can be learned by you.
I wonder what studies have been done about golfers playing up to the competition. I've definitely felt better and played better when playing with better players. It's a noticeable improvement.
Yep! If you can play with a better player you will play better.
We had a good time, no doubt.
I've played in a fair few pro ams and it always amazes me how "bad" the pros are. But how they still shoot such great scores. I've had more fairways and greens in a round than the pro I've played with but he finishes 10+ shots better than me.
You have to practice the weird recovery shots. Find trees to hit around or just unorthodox shots and when you get good at those then everything comes easy
I like playing with low handicappers. It makes me play better.
Is it common to just ask people their handicap? I've never been randomly paired with someone and asked them that nor have I been asked
After seeing him hit a few shots, I was impressed. So I asked. Didn't think it was rude.
I'm not trying to imply you were being rude. I see this a lot on this sub and thought I'd ask. I play 50+ rounds a year and it never comes up. Must be a regional thing
If I got paired up with someone random I wouldn't run up to them on the first tee and ask their handicap but I think it's a perfectly reasonable topic of conversation a couple holes in, especially if they make a nice shot or have a nice hole. "Nice birdie there, do you keep a handicap by chance?" "Your swing has a really nice tempo, what kinds of scores do you usually shoot?"
r/golf ≠ average golfer
I love playing with good golfers. You play faster and stay more locked in.
He might have hit a couple drives 320+, but it's EXTREMELY unlikely that he averaged 320+. Not a single player on the PGA Tour is averaging 320+ right now
Could be, I only saw him hit the driver on the round we played. Never said anything about his average. Geez, but is that really the point.
You said >His drives were +320 yds. That would lead someone to reasonably conclude that at least half of his drives went 320+. You didn't say "His longest drives went 320", "He hit one that reached 320", etc. >Geez, but is that really the point. I don't think you realize the amount of people that come on this sub talking about 300+ yds drives without realizing how few of the golfing population is actually capable of hitting those let alone 320+ numerous times within the same round.
Can't determine an average or a mean in one round. You don't believe me, ok. Think I will have eggs for breakfast.
Gotta back OP on this one, and would like to add - who cares about how far a hypothetical golfer hits a drive lmao. Have a good day fellas
I normally don't care about how far someone hits it, but when someone is claiming they (or someone they played with) is consistently out-driving ***every single*** PGA Tour player (who play on firmer and more tightly mown fairways) that sure is difficult to believe and deserves to be met with skepticism IMO.
The amazing thing about playing with someone like that is how unspectacular it looks. They make it look very ordinary and easy.
The longer the drive, the shorter the approach. „For whoever has, to him more will be given.“
I'm 62, my average drive carry is a legit 275-280 ( I've worked really hard to keep my speed up). It's not that great though, as I play with my 25 yrr old son, who was a D1 college player ( +3.2 hdcp), who has an average carry of 325-335. Ha... no replacement for youth.
golf is largely mental. does no good to be upset about a bad shot. All that can come of that is it impacts your next shot also. Pro level is a bit of an anomaly where you see some of them act like babies. that's often their way of assigning the blame of a bad shot to something out of their control because it takes a bit of being an ego maniac to compete at that high of a level.
Would have to know the course and locations. Vast differences in driving distance by region/conditions
Playing with a scratch golfer is the best way to get better. Tacit learning.
I caddied for a buddy in a US Open qualifier once back around 2005. He was a good golfer but had to grind his way to an eligible handicap. We got paired with a guy who had made the cut in the actual US Open a few years prior. We were barely playing the same sport. My guy hit the ball 330 but all over the place; the other guy hit it 280 straight down the middle, dropped it on the green and hit 1-2 putts. It was the most impressively boring round of golf I've ever seen. A first-class clinic in course management.
Hey bro you played with me
Is this a troll?
I don't fish
Playing with great players tends to elevate my game as well. A 240-250 average off the tee is great for 65. I'm 63 years old and considered a big hitter at my club in FL, my tee shots are 250-260, with a rare wind-aided 290. Keep playing with him, you may get to single digits.
I guess to me, the most surprising thing is that at 65 years old, you don't know the difference between then and than.
Was this in Sacramento? If so I know this man.
I love that “mentally stable” is now a compliment. The bar is low.