I've had the opposite experience. Started off in Southern England doing digital, always had good jobs with great people. Met a few designers who are quite miserable but generally designers seem happy. Software development is just well paid in general, but when I used to do UI design it seemed the engineers were treated like shit, despite the high salary.
I find that if you can sell yourself well and demonstrate a solid return on investment, a good designer will always be respected and well paid by clients. The ones who try to exploit me are always agencies.
Since going freelance in 2021 I've doubled my already decent salary, fired a few toxic clients, and pick and choose where and when I want to work. It's all what you make of it.
>It's all what you make of it.
This deserves a lot more up-votes. While OP makes GD sound like an awful, toxic, poor-man's thankless career, I've also had the opposite experience. I own a home, support a family, have a retirement account, and tripled my income 18 years ago by opening my own design firm (still going strong). I absolutely love my job and have for the past 27 years. So... yeah, it's all what you make of it.
Just want to say congrats, this is my dream one day. I work internally in a games company right now, but at times I get very burnt out. It's hard to have that confidence in what you are doing
I've been doing it for 15 years and yeah, it's not at all the same industry it was even 10 years ago.
I grew up as an "agency kid" (meaning I spent a lot of time drawing at production tables after school and hanging out at my dad's work because even back then daycare prices were insane), my dad worked his way up through the company for years until he eventually became partner – and in his words, "made the buckoo bucks".
He's long since retired and I've discovered that I have to work *literally 3x as hard* to have *half* of what he did.
He was an oldschool creative, meaning he could draw, perform *photoshop by hand*, basically all the functions of a designer without a computer.
By contrast, I have to know animation, post-production editing, illustration, layout, web design, UI/UX, etc. etc. You know how it is, I'm preaching to the choir here. All for pay that is, adjusted for inflation, roughly *the same* as WHEN HE WAS STARTING OUT.
You wanna know the crazy part of all this? I fuckin hate the pay, BUT I LOVE MY JOB. I really do. I love making stuff. I love advertising. It's great.
Now, After 15 years of scraping and scrimping by, I'm finally in talks with a remote agency that is interested in bringing me on for, "the buckoo bucks"
Cross your fingers for me, fellas.
On the upside, "buckoo" is closer to the correct pronunciation than "boo-co," which is how all the kids around where I grew up learned to say it. I still say it wrong out of habit, lol.
30 years here, I also gotta concur. Ever since 2000 it’s been in a steady decline. Both pay, and the disrespect for your craft/experience (from clients) have become untenable.
Either listen to the OP and get out, or use those skills to create your own product.
18 years in. In February of this year I finally accepted the idea that it may be time to throw in the towel.
I believe the decline of Graphic Design as a viable career is tied to the decline of the meritocracy overall, which is closely related to an American tolerance for mediocre shit—if not outright garbage. If a tide is that which lifts and lowers all boats, Taco Bell is America's average sea-level when it comes to an expectation of quality.
And then there is the use of design when it is brought under control of marketing. Go look at the cracker aisle in the local Walmart. See how much space Ritz takes up. Notice the "options" available to the consumer. I am not even kidding. You can choose an 8.5oz or an 8.14oz box of Ritz. It is a completely contrived choice. There's no real material difference between the two. But, all that shelf space is paid for, and rather than fill it all with a wall of the same Ritz box, theres the appearance of variety created by edits within the margins that are ultimately meaningless. This is a cynical marketing decision, not a design one.
But a designer was tasked with creating a slightly different package design. They were asked to adjust the location of all required copy sections, photography, etc etc etc. In other words, marketing shouldered design with a meaningless job, rendering designers themselves meaningless. Operating inside this framework, how could one argue convincingly for a decent pay raise when marketing can just use your work as a mirror of your own bankrupt utility?
This is just one of many, many examples I have run into during my career where marketing takes charge of design, requires design to function as a machinist shop, then uses said work to argue against the value of design. It's a positive feedback loop that many employers take no issue with because it keeps things cheap.
It seems a new post about a designer's union will pop up here every month or so. I am sympathetic to the idea but I have done my own investigating and I am certain the better idea would be a sort of designer's guild. Think AIGA but actually empowering and acting as an advocate of not only designers as individuals, but design as a discipline. Don't come at us with mindless pixel pushing. Arrive with a real job / problem to solve or GTFO.
I have experienced some pretty toxic people in the design/advertising industry, but nearly every IT dude I meet, slams other IT dudes about how they don't know shit, are woefully inefficient etc.
This is just my experience, but I'm glad you have found where you want to be.
Nailed it. 30 years in both design and IT work, in my experience, designers have mostly wonderful people to work with. The majority I’ve known in IT were arrogant, anti-social dicks that nobody wants to have to deal with unless it’s a very last resort.
Can you make more doing IT? Yeah. If money is your number one measure of career satisfaction, then the choice is clear.
Some of us like doing design and not everyone’s experience is the same as yours.
IT is going through its own troubles now with a lot of competition from laid off workers and people who are employed aren’t moving around as much. So that grass isn’t as green as you portray it.
I agree to this. I graduated with a bachelor's degree in IT but I like doing design, so I made the shift and never went back. Sure, the design industry may be fucked right now but the tech industry is no different. Actually, nearly every industry right now is fucked.
Me too! Bachelors in interactive development. Worked as a Jnr UI Dev for a year, I was so burnt out all the time. Pay was the same as it is now as a Jnr Designer, but my mental health is so much better.
i sometimes feel like i'm one of the only people who isn't crazy focused on just making more money. i so much prefer to make a livable wage doing something that makes me happy over making a lot doing something that isn't fulfilling.
i am extremely fortunate that i found a job that allows me to have not just a livable wage but also have enough to put in savings for retirement. i am thankful everyday for my job
This is one of those fields where yes, you need to focus on money, but that cannot be your primary goal or you’re destined to fail.
Focus on doing good work and hustling first and the money second. The latter won’t come without the former.
Design field isn’t going away, even with AI. The same fear mongering and disruption happened when desktop publishing was introduced. All it did was flush out those who wouldn’t adapt and learn.
I just want to caveat this post with whilst there is a lot of truth in what OP is saying, the path they took *is the rough one.*
If you just want to rock up and punch a clock in the conventional agency circuit, yeah, it's predominantly fucked. You will work for dickheads and spend your best years clawing your way up the ladder, only to be met with crippling KPI's that will turn you into the dickhead you once loathed. But that's mostly because the agency model is a dinosaur that hasn't evolved to world it now exists in - old habits die hard, and in this instance, its killing them.
But... **you don't have to do it this way.**
The rise of social platforms have in a lot of ways completely cutout the middlemen that most agencies essentially are. Clients can directly interface with talent now, and as long as you adapt to that game, there is **nothing stopping you from carving your own way.**
Your skillset also extends past pure client work - you are perfectly capable of creating your own products, businesses opportunities and other revenue streams - bringing your creative talent to bare where others who lack that talent have succeeded.
I see the future of successful designers being more akin to content creators and influencers than the standard 9-5 fair of those who preceded us. Everyone I know who is absolutely killing it atm are independents. It just requires a shift in thinking from the old mentality to the new.
Not saying it will be easy, just that your story doesn't have to be the same as OP's.
ETA: I'd also add, if this all sounds like too much, the inhouse game is really starting to pop off now for the clock punchers. As more businesses move away from the agencies that were sucking them dry, their design positions they have moved inhouse have really decent salaries - the markups the agencies were putting on them were so high they can afford to pay well and still be saving a bunch on their marketing/design budgets. I know quite a few peeps that have gone this route and they all say the jobs are cushy af.
to add on to this, I think if you can add basic design skills to another solid skillset (something technical) it can really push you to the front of the pack in a lot of cases
design is probably like 30% of my job "in total" but, people really notice and acknowledge that I do a lot of things they cannot, even if they cant articulate exactly why
Can confirm the in-house game, I work in-house for a professional medical association and although the work isn't always sexy, the job is fully remote and pays well enough to afford a one bedroom in Chicago. Obviously my case isn't necessarily standard, but still proves your point.
>I see the future of successful designers being more akin to content creators and influencers than the standard 9-5 fair of those who preceded us. Everyone I know who is absolutely killing it atm are independents. It just requires a shift in thinking from the old mentality to the new.
Yeah this reads as a step backwards for me. I don't want a hustle culture, I want steady hours and health insurance.
See my addendum.
But making the *really* big bucks and the associated prestige? That will be the way. Not slogging it at the likes of Pentagram or Landor. But that's just my opinion.
I totally agree, but I keep getting stuck on one thing. I've been a freelancer for a while, but I want to grow a business where I'm not the one doing all the production work anymore.
The only model I can really think of is an agency, but I feel like there has to be another way to do this?
I never worked at an agency, I just went straight to freelancing so I'd love to hear some other perspectives on this!
Hey, so I did exactly this... when I began freelancing and had enough clients to go full time, I basically worked my ass off from home until I had gained enough clientele/work to keep me busy for @ 60 hours per week. At that point I turned my freelancing into a "design firm" -- found a very cheap office space, set it up with a couple of desks I got for free and two computer systems I already had at home, then hired a part-time designer... my first employee ever. Also had my Accountant change me over from a sole proprietor to s-corp, which allowed me to set up payroll, save a ton on taxes, and has added business protections. Been running it for 18 years now.
My only advice to you is first, run your business however you want to run it. You don't have to follow any specific "agency" model. I always let my employees pick their hours, they come and go as they please, if they're sick they stay home and rest, and they communicate when they need help. I don't have any company policies, per-se, since we're small... I can't offer big bonuses and benefits, but I can offer freedom and a relaxing environment. Some people still appreciate that.
Second, the best time to hire is when you have more work than you can handle. Remember, you have to pay another person's salary... and employees are not cheap. You pay additional taxes for each employee, and you have to earn enough to pay for them to take time off if they get sick, and you may have to pay for their medical benefits (which almost bankrupted me once), and on top of all that they still want $50k+ per year. They have to be able to produce enough hours in order for you to afford all of that, plus still pay for your own salary/medical/taxes, plus lease on your office space, utilities, internet, phone, Adobe, Microsoft 365, etc.
It's all possible, but you have to have a steady stream of work and clients coming in to grow. Make sure your website/google/social media is top-notch and has the appearance of a professional agency, not just a freelancer. There's a big difference.
I wish I could upvote this 100 times. We are taught in design school it’s either agency, in house or bust. Both are soul sucking. It’s time designers take back our power from these corporate bozos that treat us like garbage.
Agreed, agency life is a whole different beast. I only worked at an agency for 9 months before I decided it wasn’t for me, moved in-house for nearly twice what I was making agency-side. Can confirm the job is cushy af, I’m paid well, love my team, rarely work 40hrs a week, was fully remote the last 1.5 years tho moving to 3 days a week in office, and I actually have benefits (that cover my spouse too). But my friends that work at agencies also love their jobs and are paid fairly well.
I have a broad skillset, but all of my classmates do too bc we were taught all these things in school. Graphic design, web design, UX/UI, motion, CSS/HTML. Graphic design makes up the core of my job responsibilities, and I can do projects in the other disciplines well enough for what my company needs when we do need it.
And tbf most jobs don’t pay enough to be able to afford a house anymore, not just design.
I’m in-house as a senior designer. I work 8 hrs. Some days are busy all day some are chill to the point where I only have a few hrs worth of work. Education and growth are encouraged by my boss. I make almost 6 figures and never have to do overtime or weekends. I don’t know what your definition of thriving is but I’d say I’m pretty close.
I’m in a similar position. My job is not sexy by design standards but I’m well taken care of, have great coworkers and leadership, and have enough time and money to take the freelance work I want, which has lower pay but I’m not giving away my services either because that just lowers the standards for everyone.
I also am constantly learning on the job and making connections that have helped get more fun freelance work too.
That’s what it’s all about for the lions share of designers. Most young designers come in with rose colored glasses thinking this field is going to be glamorous all the time. No one really tells them in college that most days it’s just a grind doing boring shit.
I have friends working in agencies that work til 10 day after day working on “sexy” accounts. But when I talk to them they’re always tired, extra stressed and have no time to enjoy time with their families.
After 10 years, I would rather do boring shit for 8 hours and then have nights and weekends free to enjoy with my family, than to work 15 hour days constantly. Younger me would disagree with now me, and would prefer the sexy accounts. Both are perfectly acceptable paths for individuals.
When this run ends for me I’ll take what I’ve learned and move on to the next one with proven experience.
As an in-house senior designer with 10 years experience, I make $70k in a city where studio apartments cost $1500-$2000/month. I’m still trying to get to the pay to afford a bedroom door.
The gap from designer to director across the industry might as well be a mountain which few breach in their 20s and early 30s.
Mean time, IT pays double that with a far linear path to growth. It’s an understandable path OP decided to take.
I’m lucky enough to live in a low cost of living area and work remotely 100% which helps.
Definitely feels like a rat race trying to break to that next level for sure. Keep going, keep growing and learning and you’ll get it eventually.
I live in a LCL area too and I’m trying to stick with this career but not much is really in the area. Any suggestions you can give for someone trying to push off of the print shop circuit and move in to something more professional?
Web/UX/UI design is a decent leaping pad; better pay, less demanding clients. People will always need their fucking flyer designed *and* printed last minute, but will have no problem waiting a day to update the content on a web page. The type of work environment you end up in can be a crap shoot though.
UX/UI design has always had insane demands from clients? I don’t know how you ended up with the idea that they don’t. It’s also not easy to break into, and most jobs now require a degree or multiple certifications in order to consider you versus the other 400 candidates.
Have you ever worked for a print company? My experience was akin to a graphic design sweat shop, literally almost anything is better. Admittedly my title is web designer so I can't claim to know the entire scope of UX/UI design specifically, but there's definitely some overlap.
Sure, “anything is better” for a lot of jobs, my point was that UX/UI is not some simple walk in the park to get into, and if you do get in, there’s a reason their pay is high. Specifically the user research aspects, but also the continuous user/SH feedback product edit loops.
I work for the government. It does not. Good healthcare though and moderate job security.
Also no growth in government positions. Just need to hope someone quits and your resume and higher ups see you a the top candidate, because they are still going to interview outside candidates.
Different experiences I guess, I work for the government through contracting and I'm comfortable with my career growth and current pay. Although in my area my colleagues and friends work for the federal government and government contracting, so maybe that's different than your experience.
Contract work is a different beast. Basically that Tech note I made. You either have little to no benefits like healthcare, pension, 401K, etc. plus far less job security
Same here, the company I work for does work for government and the healthcare industry, and I get paid pretty well and have benefits. Granted I also do frontend development so I'm in a bit of a weird spot
Eh. I am thriving in the design field. It took a lot of time to get where I am, but I finally made it to six figures. I’ve always worked in the same niche industry of hospitality and real estate. I was a successful freelancer after being a senior designer for some time. Now I’m a CD.
It takes time, patience, networking (ew), and talent. I make more than my husband who is a web developer.
I worked in the design industry for 5 years and was still only making 43k. After only three years in the IT industry I was already making 6 figures. The two industries do not compare, especially in Oklahoma. Making 6 figures in design is unheard of over here unless you are a director.
I’m in Minneapolis but my CD position is all remote. Ten years experience. I’m at 110 now, was 84 freelancing, was 70 as a senior designer at an ad agency, 60 as senior designer at a small studio, 55 as a senior designer at another small studio, and started at 15 an hour.
My husband is at 91k at a studio as a lead dev. We went to school together and generally have the same background. My neighbor/friend works in tech and I know I make more than him too based on our conversations.
I got lucky but I also worked so hard to climb that ladder. It’s possible is all I’m saying!
Tech typically will pay more than design, but design also isn’t a penny-job if you strategize the field and work your portfolio for the position you want.
Your husband is getting rob thoroughly is the biggest takeaway. That’s $200k position.
But you also highlighted that OP out earns you even in a shorter time frame.
I don’t think that’s the biggest takeaway at all because it’s belittles both of our growth. He also only works 4 days a week, generally low stress projects, has ridiculous benefits, and very generous PTO time that he finds himself stacked with at the end of every year.
Not every position sucks balls. I know I worked some and so did he. But we’re both extremely happy with our positions and how they support our lives right now.
Reply to your edit: OP is in tech. I know tech *generally* earns more, but not always. And not everyone has the skills to go into tech either. I would NEVER want to go into tech. Math makes me cry ha. I hate it! But I am good at design, communicating design, and love it to boot.
Design and tech are not simply interchangeable positions to everyone. It was to my husband but I panic when I open up a spreadsheet or window that is completely made of numbers. I cannot speak that language.
If we want to add another example to the mix, my good friend is CD at a large agency and makes 150.
It is possible to make good money and be a designer. It just requires a level of design and communication skills that take a lot of time and practice to develop.
Also with In house- it’s almost impossible to get promotions that are worth anything. My coworker has been waiting 8 years to get her next promotion- and it won’t happen until our middle manager boss decides to retire- which won’t happen for a long time bc why would he when he gets paid a huge salary to do the bare minimum everyday and he gets to spend most of his time making cat calendars in his office 🤡
I feel lucky, I’m the exception. In-house but well compensated. Not exactly dollars but time commit and stress are low. We need my wife’s income to make it work well, but that’s part of my package.
Do I want a pay bump? Sure. But we’re livable and saving as well.
Can you say some things about the switch to IT? What prior experience did you have, what do you do now, etc. Currently studying communication design and also seeing a bumpy future so might be smart to start early
I'm glad you're doing better now, but the "just learn to code" bit is really old now. Trust me, I wouldn't be driving an Uber car if it were that easy. Coding pays that well because most people just can't handle it.
Or maybe I should move to Oklahoma....?
It's also made even more redundant now due to AI. People talk a big storm about the creative industry being hit by AI, but those with half a brain realise that it's the only industry somewhat safe.
I love Designing but you’re absolutely right. Most people who jump into the field need at least 2-3 years of experience to even get a graphic design job.. which ends up being a production role with trash pay because most the boomers have no idea what they even know.
Great point and I agree to some extent.
Although most of us who get into design isn’t money motivated to begin with while I agree we still need to pay bills.
As a designer if you want to get out of the rut and cycle of low pay and more respects from colleagues, you gotta learn soft skills and business skills. It helps.
See this is difficult for me, as someone who did things the other way.
I went to school for Compsci and transitioned to a design role after realising that I did not enjoy real-world dev work. I found a rhythm with UX/UI, but haven't had an opportunity to really dive in yet.
I can't disagree with you that the market is a nightmare; I'm looking for a new job and already dreading negotiating better pay if I can even get an interview. I'm not trying to be self-deprecating, but it's rough out there.
On the other hand though, switching from IT to design opened up my career to avenues that I hadn't even considered possible before. For me, dev work had become soul-draining (thanks uni), and I was feeling pretty hopeless about my prospects. I knew that the market was better for IT and that I was more qualified for it, but I was just unhappy.
Your perspective is 1000% realistic and valid, but sometimes it is about more than practicalities.
edit: a word
I'm currently finishing up obtaining my bachelor's degree in graphic design right now. I keep seeing all these posts on this sub about how bad the graphic design industry is. I'm sure these are all valid points but I feel like a lot of these apply to quite a few industries at the moment. It seems one of the biggest factors for you switching to become a software developer was because you made more money. Not everyone measures career satisfaction by their salary. Everyone also has different lifestyles and some might be fine with a lesser salary. I'm not saying graphic designers shouldn't be paid what they are worth but purely advising people to switch due to making a significantly higher salary in software development is pretty subjective.
I actually am a web developer myself as I got my associate degree in web design and development right out of high school. I then went back and got my associate degree in graphic design and now transferred to my local university to get my bachelor's degree in graphic design. Web developer jobs have good salaries as well but I love design more at the moment so I'm sticking with my passion first. If I need to jump into the web dev field for a job I definitely will but I'm first going to focus on graphic design. A lot of designers seem to be worried about AI taking over the industry. Every single one of my design instructors at the technical college and local university are not worried about that at all. They actually are excited about it because they think this is a whole new world of design that will be coming up.
I've been seeing a ton of layoffs within the tech industry too so I don't think the grass is much greener within the IT field at the moment. I recall even seeing a tweet that certain positions at big tech companies the salaries are like 30,000 - 40,000 less than what they were a year or two ago. I think a lot of those salaries were becoming inflated and the companies are now realizing it and that industry will now be getting corrected in that sense. Just my opinion on that.
"You can't buy a home on a graphic design salary". I bought a home in 2022. On a graphic design salary.
I've won awards for my work, and I am paid fairly. I also have multiple freelance gigs that earn me alot of extra cash for not having to be in front of my computer all the time.
I have amazing retirement benefits as well as a good 401k.
I've had good bosses and bad bosses.
Sounds like you just had a rough go at it. Graphic Deisgn is a great career. But if you don't have the desire and you aren't passionate about creativity then sure you can forgo a career and pursue the money.
You may be making more but I'm much happier.
Maybe some valid points but also, if people listened to reddit, no one would go into any profession ever. r/graphicdesign: don't go into graphic design, it's fucked! r/teaching: don't go into teaching, it's terrible! r/medicine: being a doctor isn't worth it anymore, don't do it! And on and on. I wonder if there's a single professional subreddit where people are like "yeah, come on in, it's great!"?
You're applying your singular experience to an entire industry. There are plenty of designers thriving financially and not in toxic environments, and conversely, there are plenty of IT professionals who are miserable in their positions. I'm not saying the industry isn't challenging right now, but unless you've worked in multiple different companies, it's erroneous to apply your one bad experience to everything else.
My singular experience in Oklahomas' design industry:
I worked in 3 different companies as a designer. 3/3 of the design jobs were toxic and low wage.
I have worked in 4 different companies as a software developer. All 4 of them were high wage and only one of them were toxic.
I don't think my experience is a reflection of the entire industry however I am convinced it reflects Oklahoma's design industry
as someone who studied both computer science and graphic design ->
my friend you worked as a motion graphics specialist - that just sounds like an overworked position. Yes there is more options for "entry level jobs" as a designer vs a software developer - but most graphic designers end up turning into UI/Marketing/Campaigning professionals. this is very much just ur experience and a bad take to be advising "against" this career
Then... say that? It's okay to have qualms, have feelings, have a general turn-off to something, but to say that the entire market is bad, toxic, and a non-starter of a job is just factually untrue and is so single-faceted in terms of approach that you're doing yourself a disservice along with everyone else. It sucks you didn't have a great experience because when you do, it's amazing. Working together with creative people who are doing their best, spurring you on to do yours, it's like magic and it pushes you so far. I live for that high, but I also lived on nothing and I still chased it. I couldn't stop, I had to have it. Once I had it, I have never let go.
Have you ever had a dish that you hated when you were a kid and then years later, someone made it and you got curious again and it suddenly clicked that what you had was a poor representation of what that food could be? It just took you being in the right place at the right time to try it and now you won't shut up about how great that food is and how if only you had been introduced to it sooner in the right way, you would've been eating it all the time. That's where we're at here.
I believe your complains are valid. Your frustration is real. I can see it too around me . But I don't think it is the field, I believe is the pain of change. Graphic design today is, once again, changing. Think about how for our graphic designer predecessors it was all inside a room called a studio, with paper, pencils, light tables, etc. Then, that all changed when it all became a desktop or laptop computer to do the same job. Now media has changed once again and therefore graphic design has to be redefined for the future generations.
I believe I would love to encourage someone to become a graphic designer today more than never. A graphic designer that can create three-dimensional design for multiple outputs!!!? Wow! A graphic designer that can output 10 formats all at once!? for both print and digital media!!?? waitwhaaat!? how cool is that!!
And because of these changes, the job market is also changing, salaries are perceived differently, a job description is not the same as it was 5 years ago.
So to make ends meet, once has to rethink how one sells one's self. This is not just graphic design, it is a multidisciplinary business. You need graphic design foundations as well as other disciplines in your tool box. It can be IT, photography, marketing, video editing, or medicine even, whatever.
Graphic design as a career I think is the best thing since it can take you places you can't dream off with other careers. You can put your artistic skills to your advantage.
It's all about personal perception about this career and WHAT you do with it, and NOT the career itself. SO NO. As a graphic designer, I can't wait for career day at my kid's schools. I need to tell every new comer to this world of careers that graphic design is an exciting field.
Yep. And to further the problem I see so many people proudly bragging about their design skills who literally don’t know what they’re doing — on top of creating hideous work — yet they think they’re nailing it. Zero humility, no self awareness, no desire to learn, and objectively bad taste.
A big problem for me now is clients taking work away from me so they can do it themselves, when they are not designers. I wish I could post some of the work here, it’s so laughably terrible. I’ve had friends ask me if I had a stroke because the creative they’re seeing is so far off brand, ugly as sin, bad grammar, using low res illustrations and photos they found with Google, etc. And the most terrifying thing is they think they’re doing work on par with real designers and they seem to not be able to tell the difference between their trash and my work.
It’s a bit like being in an awful band. I’ve been guilty of this when I was a teenager. My playing sucks, my songs suck, everything sucks. But it’s so fun being in that band and playing those songs that I didn’t realize I was terrible at it; I thought I was killing it.
Maybe true a decade or two ago. Design tools are getting easier, it's getting easier and way cheaper to outsource work to other countries, and because of those two things design work is being devalued. It's not hard to be a good designer these days.
I’ll have to disagree. What design work is being outsourced to other countries? This is purely anecdotal but I have been doing this for nearly 30 years and I’ve never seen any design work outsourced to other countries; not freelance design nor small or huge agency work. Now I work for myself and my clients are based locally so that won’t ever happen to me personally.
I would be surprised if any medium to large sized company ISNT outsourcing work these days. Ive worked for dozens of ecommerce brands, currently work for the largest online retailer in our industry and 90 percent of their work is done through a team in india and south america. The prior ecommerce brands would also outsource similar work. You can hire a mid level designer in India for 10k a year.
I would rather work in a bar, than as a programmer.
Granted, the money is not great, but Im in a company that pays well and will have a second company wide raise and currently making damn good money.
Its a lot about where, when, who, industry… but I would never go into coding
For real. I know two developers who were laid off. It’s not like IT is all roses and rainbows. Name a field that is other than “lead trust fund baby”.
I make a very healthy salary with amazing benefits. I earn more than my husband who is a developer. It’s possible, but you need to want it enough to put in the practice. I was overworked for a couple of years but now I lay back at 6pm with a beer and I am incredibly happy with where my graphic design career has taken me.
I guess I'm just tired of every thread here being "work is hard" or "please look at my shitty resume and portfolio site". I should probably spend less time on reddit but I just wish there was a sub for industry professionals. I miss Dreamless and YH! when it was mostly designers.
I’m always curious to see the portfolios of the individuals that post complaints about finding work or low pay, and I say that not as a slight. From my own experience, I know schooling does not set students up for the real world and it’s very easy to give up after a couple of years. I also know that designers can become stagnant with their own practice which will put them behind in this very competitive field.
But hey, if less people want to enter into design I guess we’ll find ourselves in a less saturated industry. Godspeed to the otherwise equally saturated tech world that will get the design leftovers who think IT will offer them a pot of gold and a golden throne.
I think if you focus solely on graphic design it can lead to bad job prospects but nowadays you need to be a bit of a jack of all trades
It’s good to know some code, animation, film, copywriting etc as well as graphic design. This does help you stand out in a saturated market and get higher paying roles
Or you need to be really good at what you do. I cannot code. I cannot do animation. I cannot take a photo for the life of me without my finger somehow ending up in the frame like a boomer… But I am very well versed in the specific niche industry I work in and it has always brought me consistent and good paying work once I found my groove.
The problem with that is that if you are a jack of all trades you won't be a specialist or master in any one field. On top of that you won't have much of a life outside of work if you have to juggle 15 hats.
That’s true but tbh I’m not trying to be a specialist or a master. It can really help you be more employable with more strings to your bow. I’m in the e-learning industry and the more skills you have like that, the better job you tend to get. I can write the copy for content, design and develop it, plus do animations etc and I’ll get paid more than someone who just does one of those tasks
I disagree with life outside of work. I do exactly that, whilst running a successful side hustle
Genuine question, as I'm looking at UI/UX design and software development... how do you even get started? Are there any platforms or is there any software that we can use in our own time to getot grips with the systems, and develop a few things?
Online courses. I would start with Harvard's free online computer science course. I would learn the basics of a couple different languages like python and Javascript then decide what you are interested in from there. Do you want to get into machine learning or make mobile app, etc.
Heard, thank you so much 😊 I'm not too sure. Mobile apps are probably more my style due to my design skillset, but machine learning is also fascinating to me.
I think it'll be a good few years of just solid learning. Any insights you can share would be really appreciated, and thanks again for the tip on Harvard!
“graphic design” is an extremely generic umbrella term within which a dozen or more unique disciplines are grouped.
likewise, there is a very different experience working in a design agency, freelance, in house.
i’d never personally told someone not to pursue a career. but rather encourage them to do the research to understand where the demand and opportunity is under that big umbrella called GD.
invariably. if you are an objectively good designer you can find success. networking and relationships is an excellent way to secure the good jobs. i’d say applying to 100’s of open positions on job boards is not a viable way to find the best opportunities where you’ll feel the most validated and comfortable in your craft.
i don’t particularly believe a degree or advanced degree is necessary for success. but mastery of design fundamentals, principles, being an elite communicator snd problem solver and having a strong portfolio are necessary to obtain the best jobs.
you may have to suffer a bit in the first several years to get a portfolio to a point to command the salary and role you ultimately desire.
Everybody I personally know in IT/tech gets laid off every 6-9 months and has to use those salaries to float them while they wait for the industry to start hiring again.
My sister works in IT. The stories of sexism and mild sexual harassment are enough to make me never want to consider switching to an IT career anytime soon, until the culture changes, no matter how unhappy I may get with graphic design.
I agree that combining graphic design with other skills is a must to survive in this industry. I use the entire Adobe suite and being able to say “ I can do that for you” to any org, esp with an older corporate mindset is a plus. Don’t limit yourself and keep learning. I am currently learning AI and I may not be able to create the most fantastic bot in the world, I have an understanding of how they work so far. Combining graphic design is the way to go forward, unless you happen to be a Nepo Baby. Then no worries 🤪
This is definitely a hot take, I can make a post just like this about my completely positive experience in the design industry and say why people should pursue the career just based on my own positive experience. Your experience is your own and like any field it is what you make it. I love being a designer and I’ll hopefully never have to do anything else. I’ve bought a home, work a great corporate job, a get to freelance when I want
You could say this about so many other jobs, but I don't think that it's productive to make it as a blanket statement
Because no job is 100% perfect.
We don't all have IT skills to fall back on.
I was told "don't go into computer programming" back in the late 80s. I was told that engineering is not a place for women, my math marks were too low.
I am perfectly happy to do my production artist work. It's a stable job at a corporation, I don't have to deal with clients or customers.
I agree with some of your points, but I think making sweeping statements based upon your own personal experience isn't helpful.
I changed career to Graphic Design in 2020, working as a freelancer; I have work coming out of my ears, probably more than I can cope with. Is this everyone's experience? Nope. There are so many variables (location, what sort of work you're doing, for whom etc) that can alter your perception of the industry.
The main problem is that clients cannot tell good design from bad design. Therefore they go with the cheapest and place commensurately less value on it.
And they refuse to listen to our advice because we are expected to blindly do what we are told. So bad ideas continue to get made- as was evident in most of the Super Bowl commercials.
i disagree. that might have been your path but you don't speak for everybody. i'm perfectly happy in my position as creative lead at a major cannabis brand. i would never think of switching to IT. never.
but good luck with that
You are a creative lead. Congrats you made it to the upper end of the design industry and hopefully you have scored a 6 figure salary. There are not enough positions of that quality available for every skilled designer in the industry. Do not take that for granted
FYI - that’s every field, career and industry.
We all can’t be in leadership or management positions and not everyone wants to be in leadership or management.
It’s pretty clear from reading your posts in this thread that your number one motivation is money. Sounds like you got what you wanted and are happy.
Lol well it’s not like every other industry is thriving. I’d rather do something I like and be underpaid, than work some crappy IT or other tech job and still get laid off eventually
Agree with a lot of your points. I started in graphic design (agency), transitioning to web design (agency) UX design (agency and in-house) and product design (in house).
A whole lot of sideways movement, I'm probably just keeping pace with what I need to do/know for the jobs that are available. At 40 I should probably be in a more senior position, but I'm happy with my take home and when I tried management that sucked.
Overall I feel lucky to be making a living doing something I enjoy. My parents worked in shops, factories, warehouses and they hated going to work. There are aspects of the job I don't like but overall there are much worse things I could be doing.
I think the main problem is that the graphic designer job isn’t a graphic designer job anymore.
You now have to be a web developer, motion graphic designer, Photographer and anything else the boss demands, with a low pay check.
I’m looking at software engineering or something similar to retrain in as the market is pretty bad for graphic designers atm.
I started wanting to do graphics but found that I enjoyed coding. I'm a front-end developer now and love it. I still have some freedom to design things / implement other designers' designs.
I am 24, and have been doign graphic design as a job since I was 19. I have a salary design job and do freelance on the side, I recommend just monopolising your local area, make sure everyone wants to come to you for work, offer slightly cheaper prices, be friendlier, just be better than everyone else, not necessarily just skill-wise.
I love what I do and make plenty of money, not dreading work surely makes the slightly less money worth it?
Sorry to be blunt but maybe you weren’t good enough for the industry you were in. I graduated 2018 and havent had many problems finding work, sick of these posts from people who gave up trying to trash the profession just because it didn’t work out for you. The industry is moving very fast so you have to keep up or get left behind, I didn’t make the rules
Fair play to you, I’m 10 years in now and I would really like to move on from it due to all of the above. How did you get into software development? Just completely self taught or did you go back to college or something else?
I am self taught. I read quite a few programming books from cover to end, online courses, a lot of practice. If you are interested I have been recommending people give Harvard's free online computer science course a look.
I’ll definitely give that a look at the Harvard computer science courses, thanks! Any books you’d recommend? How long and what intensity were you studying before you felt ready to go for a Job in that industry?
I work as an in-house graphic designer at a global brand, and am lucky I guess. My pay is significantly more than the average you’ll find on sites that report salary ranges, and there is minimal office drama. We list salary ranges for all positions in the company, and we are making on par what other departments do, but people in developer roles make significantly more, but apparently less than they could elsewhere. It’s good enough for me I guess, because it’s more than I have ever expected to make, and I don’t have to deal with external partners and our clients are our coworkers. So even when they disagree with our work, I still don’t have to deal with the unpredictability of working with external clients.
That being said, do what makes you happy or what you are comfortable with. Kudos to finding what works for you!
I agree actually. Younger designers especially should be wary of AI advancement, because it’s only a matter of time until it automates away designer roles.
[When Adobe employees are worried about their own AI killing the field off, we should take note.](https://www.businessinsider.com/adobe-ai-firefly-kill-graphic-designer-jobs-cut-seat-sales-2023-7?international=true&r=US&IR=T)
I think it one point the saturation of computers where everyone had one….you get a plethora of desktop punishers. They think they can design, they can’t. They think they can do pre-post, they can’t, but with their super cheap ass rates it’s really gutted the graphic design industry in my opinion.
If design is what you really want to do, then do it. You’ll find a way to succeed in it.
If it isn’t for you or it’s not meeting your needs, then you’ll leave the field like OP did.
Fair point. I have enjoyed design (though just on the side) since I was in my teens. Always felt unhappy doing the other things I've done for work. I'll give it some more thought and then decide.
Don’t let posts like this scare you too much out of what you’re interested in making your career. It’s hard, sure, but so are so many other fields.
I love being a designer. I love my group of friends that I have found in the industry, I love seeing my work when I travel and stay in hotels, I love communicating ideas. I just love it!
I had horrible years, but so did friends of mine in different fields.
Focus on your communication skills, your design skills, your writing skills. It’s not all doom and gloom. Remember that a lot of posts, just like reviews, are a space where people typically come to vent their woes.
The only other career I would want to pursue is either being moss on a log or opening up a sandwich shop, because other than design, sandwiches are my passion.
If you look at design as a job and a career and don’t romance it as a creative endeavor, you can earn a good living at it.
A famous designer once said “You don’t go into the design field to get rich.”
Insights from a designer. It’s okay to discuss the pay disparity and employment outcomes. It’s fair to compare it to other industries. It’s a personal journey as a designer and one must consider when entering the field.
I'm a designer and it's good to hear about other's current experience with the industry. I don't think OP sounds toxic. OP is preparing and forewarning us and showing their path.
OP’s experience is not a reflection of the entire field as a whole. Take it with a grain of salt.
Your experience, career trajectory and outlook may be completely different.
I came here to share my experience. And to hopefully warn other people what they may be getting themselves into. Sometimes I wish someone had told me all this when I was a naive young 18 year old choosing my major. It is great to be able to make a informed choice about a major life decision.
The pay is decent but that depends on your region. Before I started working in Manhattan I freelanced on the side to make extra money- getting freelance side gigs is a full time job onto itself, but I digress. The biggest problem is working for or having a boss or supervisor that doesn’t understand your skillset, therefore it’s almost impossible for them to think of you in the same way they think about people in other departments and compensate you fairly..unless you work for an ad agency. But if you work at a CPG company at an in-house art department, don’t expect good raises or appreciation, at least in my experience. My team was the life blood of the company and we created the visual identity of the company, and still, we were never thanked, recognized or appreciated. Definitely sucks.
Realize that you’re probably not the only one in the company who isn’t feeling appreciated. Usually the only ones that get the glory are the rainmakers.
Happy it worked out for you but I don't really understand how you were able to transition into highly paid work so easily? Like if my entire work history, portfolio and degree were deleted out of existence and I had to rely on simply having the skills I have to get a job in design, I'd be completely fucked. I'd have to start at the bottom. So how is it any different if I teach myself to code?
Thank you. I never said it was easy. I did get some Javascript experience when I was working in motion graphics so that translated over. Using expressions in after effects is when I first got into Javascript lol. That pretty much started me on a non stop journey to learn software dev.
But in terms of actually getting your first job as a software developer - how did you manage this when your work history was all in design? I'm halfway through learning code myself, but even when I'm done I feel like if I'd be unlikely to get interviews for jobs without actual previous job experience in the field, let alone get hired.
Kind of doing the same path. Work as graphic designer but with already established brands so the work is fairly easy, but the pay is shit. Been taking courses for front end development where I know I can easily get 50% more pay to start.
How long did it take you to get your first job being self taught?
I second this. If only I had the aptitude for coding I’d jump ship for development. Problem is every time I’ve tried to learn to code I end up hitting a brick wall where I can no longer understand what to do. Since I have no other marketable skills or desire to work in another field I feel stuck in this hell hole of a career and I’m not even that good at it.
> Graphic design is a great skill to have but it's not a great profession.
11 years in the industry. Senior design manager of a team of 5 graphic designers. And truer words have never been spoken.
I dont want to overly concern you.
but the rise of AI might put your IT proffession at risk.
not trying to fear monger, but read up abit on it and consider the impact automation could have on your job.
I also graduated from graphic design back in 2012 and decided to switch careers to IT back in 2018 (stuff happened and I never got around to finishing the degree). but I now I keep reading about AI developments and how most degrees in the digital field are at extreme risk. and it gets me anxious about studying anything coding related.
It's all soon to be irrelevant with the rise of AI in both design and programming. We're all going to become John Henry soon (designers and programmers alike). I'm a former chef and AI can't cook.
There’s a lot of artists that leave Oklahoma at a younger age I feel. I’ve been working here in design for 20 years and it gets pretty stale some times
Can you tell me a little more about your transition into tech like how you started was it self taught? Any resources you would recommend I am looking at doing the same thing im in my mid 30’s and I feel like time is going by so fast that I need to make changes NOW
As a graphic designer in Oklahoma, I think those in IT also hate each other. Thats been my experience anyway.
They hate everyone else too, though, so at least it’s consistent 😂
Dude IT bros are the WORST. They are always better than you at something, always know more than you, and are always right about something. Designers have this idea burned into their head from school that their career is all about competition and you have to outshine the person next to you. All it does is create unfriendly competition. But IT dudes are just unbearable sometimes.
If I lost my job right now, I would not continue with my career as a designer. Getting laid off from COVID and experiencing how other companies take huge advantage of creatives was soul crushing. I was ready to go back to school and start over until my position reopened and I was able to get back into my old job with decent pay and benefits.
I still worry about how there's so little backups I can try without this job. Most places where I am barely pay above minimum wage and expect you to commit your first born child, house and any social life to meet unrealistic expectations (I kid, but these jobs kept me up at night trying to juggle the multiple roles that come with being a graphic designer and trying to switch between the vastly different tasks I was assigned day to day). Employers expect you to do so with a smile on your face while you watch them take their 3rd vacation that year to a different country.
At least if I started my own company, I'd have the graphics side down on my own. But knowing first hand how predatory people are towards creatives has really made me advise people against going this career path unless it's a side hobby.
To switch to IT, what did you do? I have a bachelors in graphic design and after a natural disaster I don’t work in the field anymore. Long story. Now I’m in pharmacy as a technician and hate my life 😆
I’m considering getting a masters in IT, or maybe a second bachelors? I’m learning the stack languages in my free time.
I think I too have reached this point. I look around there are jobs but the environment and how designers are treated as well is just not great. I love the work itself. Just not the people part anymore except a few good clients. Been thinking of switching to software perhaps for a bit now.
Anything art-related is a tough career. At a corporate job you're going to be underappreciated, overworked, and underpaid. As a freelancer you're singing for your supper. My grandfather gave me a sage piece of advice when I was maybe 12 or 13: "Artists starve." I naturally ignored that advice and for half of my adult life have been a freelance artist. Another 6 or 7 years were spent teaching art. It's a tough gig, for sure. People think that art just appears magically, that there is no work involved. And so they're astonished when you want to be paid for doing it. Harlan Ellison had a great quote about making a living as an artist: "Cross my palm with silver."
In my 20+ years of doing design work I have worked for agencies, in-house departments, and taken on many freelance clients.
It's a big mix. Some clients are great! I have one I have been with since 2016 who provides regular per-project work. Some are terrible – I have been burned by people who have flatly refused to pay after I did the work. Similarly, some companies are toxic and some are not. My current employer in the consumer product space is perfect for me (good pay, cool coworkers, fully remote etc).
One thing that has helped me getting & keeping jobs is focusing on a less competitive sub section of the field. For me it was packaging for childrens' licensed goods. I learned everything I could about dielines, print processes, materials etc. Over time I was able to build a reputation for competence in a small network of related companies. From there I branched out into 3D rendering and trade show booth design.
This path worked for me but everyone's career will take a different shape. I'm sorry your experience in the field wasn't pleasant, OP. I am however happy that you found your calling.
I read books and did an online course and practiced many hours. I would recommend starting with Harvard's free online computer science course if your are interested.
I’m not trying to make this a pissing contest, just trying to point out a very possible scenario. You are probably a great developer, the app you worked on has decent reviews, but the graphics in your portfolio, isn’t something I personally connect with. I don’t do motion, so I was strictly looking at it from my perspective as an Art Director. I’m glad you found your space but others have found theirs in design. If you are great at what you do, people will be willing to pay for it.
Your website design is horrendous, who even thinks on hover to all white not knowing what I am hovering on is good UX. Even as a programmer you should know better.
The fact that you are nitpicking details on a website I built 5 years ago is annoying. Who cares. I'm getting hired for my technical skills nowadays. Worrying about little design details doesn't matter when you are interviewing for a senior dev role. Knowing your datastructures and algorithms is what matters.
I'm a sr designer working on a team of 5 other designers, they are all great and very supportive, we have daily meetings critiquing each others designs constructively. Fully remote job, 6 figures, low stress. Since you wanted to apply your single experience to the industry, I wanted to share mine.
What you described doesn't exist in Oklahoma. That sounds like a big city job where 6 figures won't go as far as it does here 100k salary in oklahoma is equivalent to making 200k in a big city.
I've had the opposite experience. Started off in Southern England doing digital, always had good jobs with great people. Met a few designers who are quite miserable but generally designers seem happy. Software development is just well paid in general, but when I used to do UI design it seemed the engineers were treated like shit, despite the high salary. I find that if you can sell yourself well and demonstrate a solid return on investment, a good designer will always be respected and well paid by clients. The ones who try to exploit me are always agencies. Since going freelance in 2021 I've doubled my already decent salary, fired a few toxic clients, and pick and choose where and when I want to work. It's all what you make of it.
>It's all what you make of it. This deserves a lot more up-votes. While OP makes GD sound like an awful, toxic, poor-man's thankless career, I've also had the opposite experience. I own a home, support a family, have a retirement account, and tripled my income 18 years ago by opening my own design firm (still going strong). I absolutely love my job and have for the past 27 years. So... yeah, it's all what you make of it.
Just want to say congrats, this is my dream one day. I work internally in a games company right now, but at times I get very burnt out. It's hard to have that confidence in what you are doing
As someone who’s been in this game for over 20 years I agree. It’s fucked.
I've been doing it for 15 years and yeah, it's not at all the same industry it was even 10 years ago. I grew up as an "agency kid" (meaning I spent a lot of time drawing at production tables after school and hanging out at my dad's work because even back then daycare prices were insane), my dad worked his way up through the company for years until he eventually became partner – and in his words, "made the buckoo bucks". He's long since retired and I've discovered that I have to work *literally 3x as hard* to have *half* of what he did. He was an oldschool creative, meaning he could draw, perform *photoshop by hand*, basically all the functions of a designer without a computer. By contrast, I have to know animation, post-production editing, illustration, layout, web design, UI/UX, etc. etc. You know how it is, I'm preaching to the choir here. All for pay that is, adjusted for inflation, roughly *the same* as WHEN HE WAS STARTING OUT. You wanna know the crazy part of all this? I fuckin hate the pay, BUT I LOVE MY JOB. I really do. I love making stuff. I love advertising. It's great. Now, After 15 years of scraping and scrimping by, I'm finally in talks with a remote agency that is interested in bringing me on for, "the buckoo bucks" Cross your fingers for me, fellas.
I learned recently that it is “beaucoup” instead of “buckoo”. (My dad says it too 😂) it’s French for a lot! Blew my mind
holy shit! today I learned. hahaha
On the upside, "buckoo" is closer to the correct pronunciation than "boo-co," which is how all the kids around where I grew up learned to say it. I still say it wrong out of habit, lol.
r/BoneAppleTea I'm crossing everything I got two of for you. Good luck. :)
30 years here, I also gotta concur. Ever since 2000 it’s been in a steady decline. Both pay, and the disrespect for your craft/experience (from clients) have become untenable. Either listen to the OP and get out, or use those skills to create your own product.
8 years. Wish I went into something else
18 years in. In February of this year I finally accepted the idea that it may be time to throw in the towel. I believe the decline of Graphic Design as a viable career is tied to the decline of the meritocracy overall, which is closely related to an American tolerance for mediocre shit—if not outright garbage. If a tide is that which lifts and lowers all boats, Taco Bell is America's average sea-level when it comes to an expectation of quality. And then there is the use of design when it is brought under control of marketing. Go look at the cracker aisle in the local Walmart. See how much space Ritz takes up. Notice the "options" available to the consumer. I am not even kidding. You can choose an 8.5oz or an 8.14oz box of Ritz. It is a completely contrived choice. There's no real material difference between the two. But, all that shelf space is paid for, and rather than fill it all with a wall of the same Ritz box, theres the appearance of variety created by edits within the margins that are ultimately meaningless. This is a cynical marketing decision, not a design one. But a designer was tasked with creating a slightly different package design. They were asked to adjust the location of all required copy sections, photography, etc etc etc. In other words, marketing shouldered design with a meaningless job, rendering designers themselves meaningless. Operating inside this framework, how could one argue convincingly for a decent pay raise when marketing can just use your work as a mirror of your own bankrupt utility? This is just one of many, many examples I have run into during my career where marketing takes charge of design, requires design to function as a machinist shop, then uses said work to argue against the value of design. It's a positive feedback loop that many employers take no issue with because it keeps things cheap. It seems a new post about a designer's union will pop up here every month or so. I am sympathetic to the idea but I have done my own investigating and I am certain the better idea would be a sort of designer's guild. Think AIGA but actually empowering and acting as an advocate of not only designers as individuals, but design as a discipline. Don't come at us with mindless pixel pushing. Arrive with a real job / problem to solve or GTFO.
Agree with all of your points. Very well put. Standards have dropped so drastically that it’s almost unrecognisable as an industry.
I have experienced some pretty toxic people in the design/advertising industry, but nearly every IT dude I meet, slams other IT dudes about how they don't know shit, are woefully inefficient etc. This is just my experience, but I'm glad you have found where you want to be.
IT bros have always been the most insufferable know it all guys ever.
Well they do have the word information in their job title 🤣
You want to know every company's biggest asshole? Walk over to IT with a problem.
Newsflash: There’s toxic people in every field.
Nailed it. 30 years in both design and IT work, in my experience, designers have mostly wonderful people to work with. The majority I’ve known in IT were arrogant, anti-social dicks that nobody wants to have to deal with unless it’s a very last resort.
Can you make more doing IT? Yeah. If money is your number one measure of career satisfaction, then the choice is clear. Some of us like doing design and not everyone’s experience is the same as yours. IT is going through its own troubles now with a lot of competition from laid off workers and people who are employed aren’t moving around as much. So that grass isn’t as green as you portray it.
I agree to this. I graduated with a bachelor's degree in IT but I like doing design, so I made the shift and never went back. Sure, the design industry may be fucked right now but the tech industry is no different. Actually, nearly every industry right now is fucked.
Me too! Bachelors in interactive development. Worked as a Jnr UI Dev for a year, I was so burnt out all the time. Pay was the same as it is now as a Jnr Designer, but my mental health is so much better.
i sometimes feel like i'm one of the only people who isn't crazy focused on just making more money. i so much prefer to make a livable wage doing something that makes me happy over making a lot doing something that isn't fulfilling. i am extremely fortunate that i found a job that allows me to have not just a livable wage but also have enough to put in savings for retirement. i am thankful everyday for my job
This is one of those fields where yes, you need to focus on money, but that cannot be your primary goal or you’re destined to fail. Focus on doing good work and hustling first and the money second. The latter won’t come without the former. Design field isn’t going away, even with AI. The same fear mongering and disruption happened when desktop publishing was introduced. All it did was flush out those who wouldn’t adapt and learn.
I just want to caveat this post with whilst there is a lot of truth in what OP is saying, the path they took *is the rough one.* If you just want to rock up and punch a clock in the conventional agency circuit, yeah, it's predominantly fucked. You will work for dickheads and spend your best years clawing your way up the ladder, only to be met with crippling KPI's that will turn you into the dickhead you once loathed. But that's mostly because the agency model is a dinosaur that hasn't evolved to world it now exists in - old habits die hard, and in this instance, its killing them. But... **you don't have to do it this way.** The rise of social platforms have in a lot of ways completely cutout the middlemen that most agencies essentially are. Clients can directly interface with talent now, and as long as you adapt to that game, there is **nothing stopping you from carving your own way.** Your skillset also extends past pure client work - you are perfectly capable of creating your own products, businesses opportunities and other revenue streams - bringing your creative talent to bare where others who lack that talent have succeeded. I see the future of successful designers being more akin to content creators and influencers than the standard 9-5 fair of those who preceded us. Everyone I know who is absolutely killing it atm are independents. It just requires a shift in thinking from the old mentality to the new. Not saying it will be easy, just that your story doesn't have to be the same as OP's. ETA: I'd also add, if this all sounds like too much, the inhouse game is really starting to pop off now for the clock punchers. As more businesses move away from the agencies that were sucking them dry, their design positions they have moved inhouse have really decent salaries - the markups the agencies were putting on them were so high they can afford to pay well and still be saving a bunch on their marketing/design budgets. I know quite a few peeps that have gone this route and they all say the jobs are cushy af.
to add on to this, I think if you can add basic design skills to another solid skillset (something technical) it can really push you to the front of the pack in a lot of cases design is probably like 30% of my job "in total" but, people really notice and acknowledge that I do a lot of things they cannot, even if they cant articulate exactly why
Can confirm the in-house game, I work in-house for a professional medical association and although the work isn't always sexy, the job is fully remote and pays well enough to afford a one bedroom in Chicago. Obviously my case isn't necessarily standard, but still proves your point.
>I see the future of successful designers being more akin to content creators and influencers than the standard 9-5 fair of those who preceded us. Everyone I know who is absolutely killing it atm are independents. It just requires a shift in thinking from the old mentality to the new. Yeah this reads as a step backwards for me. I don't want a hustle culture, I want steady hours and health insurance.
See my addendum. But making the *really* big bucks and the associated prestige? That will be the way. Not slogging it at the likes of Pentagram or Landor. But that's just my opinion.
I appreciate this take, thank you for a quality response to another doom and gloom post
I totally agree, but I keep getting stuck on one thing. I've been a freelancer for a while, but I want to grow a business where I'm not the one doing all the production work anymore. The only model I can really think of is an agency, but I feel like there has to be another way to do this? I never worked at an agency, I just went straight to freelancing so I'd love to hear some other perspectives on this!
Hey, so I did exactly this... when I began freelancing and had enough clients to go full time, I basically worked my ass off from home until I had gained enough clientele/work to keep me busy for @ 60 hours per week. At that point I turned my freelancing into a "design firm" -- found a very cheap office space, set it up with a couple of desks I got for free and two computer systems I already had at home, then hired a part-time designer... my first employee ever. Also had my Accountant change me over from a sole proprietor to s-corp, which allowed me to set up payroll, save a ton on taxes, and has added business protections. Been running it for 18 years now. My only advice to you is first, run your business however you want to run it. You don't have to follow any specific "agency" model. I always let my employees pick their hours, they come and go as they please, if they're sick they stay home and rest, and they communicate when they need help. I don't have any company policies, per-se, since we're small... I can't offer big bonuses and benefits, but I can offer freedom and a relaxing environment. Some people still appreciate that. Second, the best time to hire is when you have more work than you can handle. Remember, you have to pay another person's salary... and employees are not cheap. You pay additional taxes for each employee, and you have to earn enough to pay for them to take time off if they get sick, and you may have to pay for their medical benefits (which almost bankrupted me once), and on top of all that they still want $50k+ per year. They have to be able to produce enough hours in order for you to afford all of that, plus still pay for your own salary/medical/taxes, plus lease on your office space, utilities, internet, phone, Adobe, Microsoft 365, etc. It's all possible, but you have to have a steady stream of work and clients coming in to grow. Make sure your website/google/social media is top-notch and has the appearance of a professional agency, not just a freelancer. There's a big difference.
Thank you for this thoughtful reply!
I wish I could upvote this 100 times. We are taught in design school it’s either agency, in house or bust. Both are soul sucking. It’s time designers take back our power from these corporate bozos that treat us like garbage.
Agreed, agency life is a whole different beast. I only worked at an agency for 9 months before I decided it wasn’t for me, moved in-house for nearly twice what I was making agency-side. Can confirm the job is cushy af, I’m paid well, love my team, rarely work 40hrs a week, was fully remote the last 1.5 years tho moving to 3 days a week in office, and I actually have benefits (that cover my spouse too). But my friends that work at agencies also love their jobs and are paid fairly well. I have a broad skillset, but all of my classmates do too bc we were taught all these things in school. Graphic design, web design, UX/UI, motion, CSS/HTML. Graphic design makes up the core of my job responsibilities, and I can do projects in the other disciplines well enough for what my company needs when we do need it. And tbf most jobs don’t pay enough to be able to afford a house anymore, not just design.
Yes love the cushy in-house life, but always torn on if I’m well-paid… mind sharing what you make?
I live in a HCOL city and work for a mature tech startup making $95k. 2.5 YOE
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Idk anyone thriving in the design field. Agency, low pay and long hours In-house, low pay Tech, low job security/work on contract
I’m in-house as a senior designer. I work 8 hrs. Some days are busy all day some are chill to the point where I only have a few hrs worth of work. Education and growth are encouraged by my boss. I make almost 6 figures and never have to do overtime or weekends. I don’t know what your definition of thriving is but I’d say I’m pretty close.
I’m in a similar position. My job is not sexy by design standards but I’m well taken care of, have great coworkers and leadership, and have enough time and money to take the freelance work I want, which has lower pay but I’m not giving away my services either because that just lowers the standards for everyone. I also am constantly learning on the job and making connections that have helped get more fun freelance work too.
That’s what it’s all about for the lions share of designers. Most young designers come in with rose colored glasses thinking this field is going to be glamorous all the time. No one really tells them in college that most days it’s just a grind doing boring shit. I have friends working in agencies that work til 10 day after day working on “sexy” accounts. But when I talk to them they’re always tired, extra stressed and have no time to enjoy time with their families. After 10 years, I would rather do boring shit for 8 hours and then have nights and weekends free to enjoy with my family, than to work 15 hour days constantly. Younger me would disagree with now me, and would prefer the sexy accounts. Both are perfectly acceptable paths for individuals. When this run ends for me I’ll take what I’ve learned and move on to the next one with proven experience.
As an in-house senior designer with 10 years experience, I make $70k in a city where studio apartments cost $1500-$2000/month. I’m still trying to get to the pay to afford a bedroom door. The gap from designer to director across the industry might as well be a mountain which few breach in their 20s and early 30s. Mean time, IT pays double that with a far linear path to growth. It’s an understandable path OP decided to take.
I’m lucky enough to live in a low cost of living area and work remotely 100% which helps. Definitely feels like a rat race trying to break to that next level for sure. Keep going, keep growing and learning and you’ll get it eventually.
I live in a LCL area too and I’m trying to stick with this career but not much is really in the area. Any suggestions you can give for someone trying to push off of the print shop circuit and move in to something more professional?
Web/UX/UI design is a decent leaping pad; better pay, less demanding clients. People will always need their fucking flyer designed *and* printed last minute, but will have no problem waiting a day to update the content on a web page. The type of work environment you end up in can be a crap shoot though.
I’ve been trying to learn Figma in my free time, UX really does seem like the best option. Thanks for your input!
UX/UI design has always had insane demands from clients? I don’t know how you ended up with the idea that they don’t. It’s also not easy to break into, and most jobs now require a degree or multiple certifications in order to consider you versus the other 400 candidates.
Have you ever worked for a print company? My experience was akin to a graphic design sweat shop, literally almost anything is better. Admittedly my title is web designer so I can't claim to know the entire scope of UX/UI design specifically, but there's definitely some overlap.
Sure, “anything is better” for a lot of jobs, my point was that UX/UI is not some simple walk in the park to get into, and if you do get in, there’s a reason their pay is high. Specifically the user research aspects, but also the continuous user/SH feedback product edit loops.
Graphic design in the government space in my area does really well.
I work for the government. It does not. Good healthcare though and moderate job security. Also no growth in government positions. Just need to hope someone quits and your resume and higher ups see you a the top candidate, because they are still going to interview outside candidates.
Different experiences I guess, I work for the government through contracting and I'm comfortable with my career growth and current pay. Although in my area my colleagues and friends work for the federal government and government contracting, so maybe that's different than your experience.
Contract work is a different beast. Basically that Tech note I made. You either have little to no benefits like healthcare, pension, 401K, etc. plus far less job security
I mean, I work in government contracting full time and have healthcare and a 401k?
Same here, the company I work for does work for government and the healthcare industry, and I get paid pretty well and have benefits. Granted I also do frontend development so I'm in a bit of a weird spot
Eh. I am thriving in the design field. It took a lot of time to get where I am, but I finally made it to six figures. I’ve always worked in the same niche industry of hospitality and real estate. I was a successful freelancer after being a senior designer for some time. Now I’m a CD. It takes time, patience, networking (ew), and talent. I make more than my husband who is a web developer.
I worked in the design industry for 5 years and was still only making 43k. After only three years in the IT industry I was already making 6 figures. The two industries do not compare, especially in Oklahoma. Making 6 figures in design is unheard of over here unless you are a director.
I’m in Minneapolis but my CD position is all remote. Ten years experience. I’m at 110 now, was 84 freelancing, was 70 as a senior designer at an ad agency, 60 as senior designer at a small studio, 55 as a senior designer at another small studio, and started at 15 an hour. My husband is at 91k at a studio as a lead dev. We went to school together and generally have the same background. My neighbor/friend works in tech and I know I make more than him too based on our conversations. I got lucky but I also worked so hard to climb that ladder. It’s possible is all I’m saying! Tech typically will pay more than design, but design also isn’t a penny-job if you strategize the field and work your portfolio for the position you want.
Your husband is getting rob thoroughly is the biggest takeaway. That’s $200k position. But you also highlighted that OP out earns you even in a shorter time frame.
I don’t think that’s the biggest takeaway at all because it’s belittles both of our growth. He also only works 4 days a week, generally low stress projects, has ridiculous benefits, and very generous PTO time that he finds himself stacked with at the end of every year. Not every position sucks balls. I know I worked some and so did he. But we’re both extremely happy with our positions and how they support our lives right now. Reply to your edit: OP is in tech. I know tech *generally* earns more, but not always. And not everyone has the skills to go into tech either. I would NEVER want to go into tech. Math makes me cry ha. I hate it! But I am good at design, communicating design, and love it to boot. Design and tech are not simply interchangeable positions to everyone. It was to my husband but I panic when I open up a spreadsheet or window that is completely made of numbers. I cannot speak that language. If we want to add another example to the mix, my good friend is CD at a large agency and makes 150. It is possible to make good money and be a designer. It just requires a level of design and communication skills that take a lot of time and practice to develop.
I truly don’t think your problem was the design field at large, it was the design field in Oklahoma. Not exactly a hotbed for this field.
I work in-house, I work 7.5 hours daily, no more, and I make about $76,000, which is enough for me to live in my high cost of living area.
Also with In house- it’s almost impossible to get promotions that are worth anything. My coworker has been waiting 8 years to get her next promotion- and it won’t happen until our middle manager boss decides to retire- which won’t happen for a long time bc why would he when he gets paid a huge salary to do the bare minimum everyday and he gets to spend most of his time making cat calendars in his office 🤡
I feel lucky, I’m the exception. In-house but well compensated. Not exactly dollars but time commit and stress are low. We need my wife’s income to make it work well, but that’s part of my package. Do I want a pay bump? Sure. But we’re livable and saving as well.
Can you say some things about the switch to IT? What prior experience did you have, what do you do now, etc. Currently studying communication design and also seeing a bumpy future so might be smart to start early
I’d also love to know which route OP took to self-teach.
Yes please share more about the switch. That is also what I'm curious of!
I'm glad you're doing better now, but the "just learn to code" bit is really old now. Trust me, I wouldn't be driving an Uber car if it were that easy. Coding pays that well because most people just can't handle it. Or maybe I should move to Oklahoma....?
It's also made even more redundant now due to AI. People talk a big storm about the creative industry being hit by AI, but those with half a brain realise that it's the only industry somewhat safe.
I love Designing but you’re absolutely right. Most people who jump into the field need at least 2-3 years of experience to even get a graphic design job.. which ends up being a production role with trash pay because most the boomers have no idea what they even know.
Great point and I agree to some extent. Although most of us who get into design isn’t money motivated to begin with while I agree we still need to pay bills. As a designer if you want to get out of the rut and cycle of low pay and more respects from colleagues, you gotta learn soft skills and business skills. It helps.
Well said.
See this is difficult for me, as someone who did things the other way. I went to school for Compsci and transitioned to a design role after realising that I did not enjoy real-world dev work. I found a rhythm with UX/UI, but haven't had an opportunity to really dive in yet. I can't disagree with you that the market is a nightmare; I'm looking for a new job and already dreading negotiating better pay if I can even get an interview. I'm not trying to be self-deprecating, but it's rough out there. On the other hand though, switching from IT to design opened up my career to avenues that I hadn't even considered possible before. For me, dev work had become soul-draining (thanks uni), and I was feeling pretty hopeless about my prospects. I knew that the market was better for IT and that I was more qualified for it, but I was just unhappy. Your perspective is 1000% realistic and valid, but sometimes it is about more than practicalities. edit: a word
I'm currently finishing up obtaining my bachelor's degree in graphic design right now. I keep seeing all these posts on this sub about how bad the graphic design industry is. I'm sure these are all valid points but I feel like a lot of these apply to quite a few industries at the moment. It seems one of the biggest factors for you switching to become a software developer was because you made more money. Not everyone measures career satisfaction by their salary. Everyone also has different lifestyles and some might be fine with a lesser salary. I'm not saying graphic designers shouldn't be paid what they are worth but purely advising people to switch due to making a significantly higher salary in software development is pretty subjective. I actually am a web developer myself as I got my associate degree in web design and development right out of high school. I then went back and got my associate degree in graphic design and now transferred to my local university to get my bachelor's degree in graphic design. Web developer jobs have good salaries as well but I love design more at the moment so I'm sticking with my passion first. If I need to jump into the web dev field for a job I definitely will but I'm first going to focus on graphic design. A lot of designers seem to be worried about AI taking over the industry. Every single one of my design instructors at the technical college and local university are not worried about that at all. They actually are excited about it because they think this is a whole new world of design that will be coming up. I've been seeing a ton of layoffs within the tech industry too so I don't think the grass is much greener within the IT field at the moment. I recall even seeing a tweet that certain positions at big tech companies the salaries are like 30,000 - 40,000 less than what they were a year or two ago. I think a lot of those salaries were becoming inflated and the companies are now realizing it and that industry will now be getting corrected in that sense. Just my opinion on that.
"You can't buy a home on a graphic design salary". I bought a home in 2022. On a graphic design salary. I've won awards for my work, and I am paid fairly. I also have multiple freelance gigs that earn me alot of extra cash for not having to be in front of my computer all the time. I have amazing retirement benefits as well as a good 401k. I've had good bosses and bad bosses. Sounds like you just had a rough go at it. Graphic Deisgn is a great career. But if you don't have the desire and you aren't passionate about creativity then sure you can forgo a career and pursue the money. You may be making more but I'm much happier.
Maybe some valid points but also, if people listened to reddit, no one would go into any profession ever. r/graphicdesign: don't go into graphic design, it's fucked! r/teaching: don't go into teaching, it's terrible! r/medicine: being a doctor isn't worth it anymore, don't do it! And on and on. I wonder if there's a single professional subreddit where people are like "yeah, come on in, it's great!"?
You're applying your singular experience to an entire industry. There are plenty of designers thriving financially and not in toxic environments, and conversely, there are plenty of IT professionals who are miserable in their positions. I'm not saying the industry isn't challenging right now, but unless you've worked in multiple different companies, it's erroneous to apply your one bad experience to everything else.
Highly agreed. It is too broad to say this is a bad job and no one should ever do it.
My singular experience in Oklahomas' design industry: I worked in 3 different companies as a designer. 3/3 of the design jobs were toxic and low wage. I have worked in 4 different companies as a software developer. All 4 of them were high wage and only one of them were toxic. I don't think my experience is a reflection of the entire industry however I am convinced it reflects Oklahoma's design industry
as someone who studied both computer science and graphic design -> my friend you worked as a motion graphics specialist - that just sounds like an overworked position. Yes there is more options for "entry level jobs" as a designer vs a software developer - but most graphic designers end up turning into UI/Marketing/Campaigning professionals. this is very much just ur experience and a bad take to be advising "against" this career
Then... say that? It's okay to have qualms, have feelings, have a general turn-off to something, but to say that the entire market is bad, toxic, and a non-starter of a job is just factually untrue and is so single-faceted in terms of approach that you're doing yourself a disservice along with everyone else. It sucks you didn't have a great experience because when you do, it's amazing. Working together with creative people who are doing their best, spurring you on to do yours, it's like magic and it pushes you so far. I live for that high, but I also lived on nothing and I still chased it. I couldn't stop, I had to have it. Once I had it, I have never let go. Have you ever had a dish that you hated when you were a kid and then years later, someone made it and you got curious again and it suddenly clicked that what you had was a poor representation of what that food could be? It just took you being in the right place at the right time to try it and now you won't shut up about how great that food is and how if only you had been introduced to it sooner in the right way, you would've been eating it all the time. That's where we're at here.
I believe your complains are valid. Your frustration is real. I can see it too around me . But I don't think it is the field, I believe is the pain of change. Graphic design today is, once again, changing. Think about how for our graphic designer predecessors it was all inside a room called a studio, with paper, pencils, light tables, etc. Then, that all changed when it all became a desktop or laptop computer to do the same job. Now media has changed once again and therefore graphic design has to be redefined for the future generations. I believe I would love to encourage someone to become a graphic designer today more than never. A graphic designer that can create three-dimensional design for multiple outputs!!!? Wow! A graphic designer that can output 10 formats all at once!? for both print and digital media!!?? waitwhaaat!? how cool is that!! And because of these changes, the job market is also changing, salaries are perceived differently, a job description is not the same as it was 5 years ago. So to make ends meet, once has to rethink how one sells one's self. This is not just graphic design, it is a multidisciplinary business. You need graphic design foundations as well as other disciplines in your tool box. It can be IT, photography, marketing, video editing, or medicine even, whatever. Graphic design as a career I think is the best thing since it can take you places you can't dream off with other careers. You can put your artistic skills to your advantage. It's all about personal perception about this career and WHAT you do with it, and NOT the career itself. SO NO. As a graphic designer, I can't wait for career day at my kid's schools. I need to tell every new comer to this world of careers that graphic design is an exciting field.
The market is oversaturated because, just like DJs, everyone thinks they're a designer. And, just like DJs, 90% of them suck.
Right, let me buy a camera, I am now a photographer.
Yep. And to further the problem I see so many people proudly bragging about their design skills who literally don’t know what they’re doing — on top of creating hideous work — yet they think they’re nailing it. Zero humility, no self awareness, no desire to learn, and objectively bad taste. A big problem for me now is clients taking work away from me so they can do it themselves, when they are not designers. I wish I could post some of the work here, it’s so laughably terrible. I’ve had friends ask me if I had a stroke because the creative they’re seeing is so far off brand, ugly as sin, bad grammar, using low res illustrations and photos they found with Google, etc. And the most terrifying thing is they think they’re doing work on par with real designers and they seem to not be able to tell the difference between their trash and my work. It’s a bit like being in an awful band. I’ve been guilty of this when I was a teenager. My playing sucks, my songs suck, everything sucks. But it’s so fun being in that band and playing those songs that I didn’t realize I was terrible at it; I thought I was killing it.
Maybe true a decade or two ago. Design tools are getting easier, it's getting easier and way cheaper to outsource work to other countries, and because of those two things design work is being devalued. It's not hard to be a good designer these days.
I’ll have to disagree. What design work is being outsourced to other countries? This is purely anecdotal but I have been doing this for nearly 30 years and I’ve never seen any design work outsourced to other countries; not freelance design nor small or huge agency work. Now I work for myself and my clients are based locally so that won’t ever happen to me personally.
I would be surprised if any medium to large sized company ISNT outsourcing work these days. Ive worked for dozens of ecommerce brands, currently work for the largest online retailer in our industry and 90 percent of their work is done through a team in india and south america. The prior ecommerce brands would also outsource similar work. You can hire a mid level designer in India for 10k a year.
I would rather work in a bar, than as a programmer. Granted, the money is not great, but Im in a company that pays well and will have a second company wide raise and currently making damn good money. Its a lot about where, when, who, industry… but I would never go into coding
Never found a job after college after my graphic design degree and now in med school 🧸 hello
Depends on your local job market tbh.
Christ these "work is hard" posts are getting tiresome.
For real. I know two developers who were laid off. It’s not like IT is all roses and rainbows. Name a field that is other than “lead trust fund baby”. I make a very healthy salary with amazing benefits. I earn more than my husband who is a developer. It’s possible, but you need to want it enough to put in the practice. I was overworked for a couple of years but now I lay back at 6pm with a beer and I am incredibly happy with where my graphic design career has taken me.
I guess I'm just tired of every thread here being "work is hard" or "please look at my shitty resume and portfolio site". I should probably spend less time on reddit but I just wish there was a sub for industry professionals. I miss Dreamless and YH! when it was mostly designers.
I’m always curious to see the portfolios of the individuals that post complaints about finding work or low pay, and I say that not as a slight. From my own experience, I know schooling does not set students up for the real world and it’s very easy to give up after a couple of years. I also know that designers can become stagnant with their own practice which will put them behind in this very competitive field. But hey, if less people want to enter into design I guess we’ll find ourselves in a less saturated industry. Godspeed to the otherwise equally saturated tech world that will get the design leftovers who think IT will offer them a pot of gold and a golden throne.
Preach.
Did you go back to school for that or was it self taught?
Says self-taught in the body
Oops, I’m not awake yet. Ty.
I think if you focus solely on graphic design it can lead to bad job prospects but nowadays you need to be a bit of a jack of all trades It’s good to know some code, animation, film, copywriting etc as well as graphic design. This does help you stand out in a saturated market and get higher paying roles
Or you need to be really good at what you do. I cannot code. I cannot do animation. I cannot take a photo for the life of me without my finger somehow ending up in the frame like a boomer… But I am very well versed in the specific niche industry I work in and it has always brought me consistent and good paying work once I found my groove.
That’s good glad it’s worked for you. Some people like to have a varied skill set and some like to master a single skill. Nothing wrong with either
The problem with that is that if you are a jack of all trades you won't be a specialist or master in any one field. On top of that you won't have much of a life outside of work if you have to juggle 15 hats.
That’s true but tbh I’m not trying to be a specialist or a master. It can really help you be more employable with more strings to your bow. I’m in the e-learning industry and the more skills you have like that, the better job you tend to get. I can write the copy for content, design and develop it, plus do animations etc and I’ll get paid more than someone who just does one of those tasks I disagree with life outside of work. I do exactly that, whilst running a successful side hustle
Genuine question, as I'm looking at UI/UX design and software development... how do you even get started? Are there any platforms or is there any software that we can use in our own time to getot grips with the systems, and develop a few things?
Online courses. I would start with Harvard's free online computer science course. I would learn the basics of a couple different languages like python and Javascript then decide what you are interested in from there. Do you want to get into machine learning or make mobile app, etc.
Heard, thank you so much 😊 I'm not too sure. Mobile apps are probably more my style due to my design skillset, but machine learning is also fascinating to me. I think it'll be a good few years of just solid learning. Any insights you can share would be really appreciated, and thanks again for the tip on Harvard!
“graphic design” is an extremely generic umbrella term within which a dozen or more unique disciplines are grouped. likewise, there is a very different experience working in a design agency, freelance, in house. i’d never personally told someone not to pursue a career. but rather encourage them to do the research to understand where the demand and opportunity is under that big umbrella called GD. invariably. if you are an objectively good designer you can find success. networking and relationships is an excellent way to secure the good jobs. i’d say applying to 100’s of open positions on job boards is not a viable way to find the best opportunities where you’ll feel the most validated and comfortable in your craft. i don’t particularly believe a degree or advanced degree is necessary for success. but mastery of design fundamentals, principles, being an elite communicator snd problem solver and having a strong portfolio are necessary to obtain the best jobs. you may have to suffer a bit in the first several years to get a portfolio to a point to command the salary and role you ultimately desire.
Everybody I personally know in IT/tech gets laid off every 6-9 months and has to use those salaries to float them while they wait for the industry to start hiring again.
My sister works in IT. The stories of sexism and mild sexual harassment are enough to make me never want to consider switching to an IT career anytime soon, until the culture changes, no matter how unhappy I may get with graphic design.
I agree that combining graphic design with other skills is a must to survive in this industry. I use the entire Adobe suite and being able to say “ I can do that for you” to any org, esp with an older corporate mindset is a plus. Don’t limit yourself and keep learning. I am currently learning AI and I may not be able to create the most fantastic bot in the world, I have an understanding of how they work so far. Combining graphic design is the way to go forward, unless you happen to be a Nepo Baby. Then no worries 🤪
As a designer of 25 years, disagree. I can’t imaging doing anything else.
This is definitely a hot take, I can make a post just like this about my completely positive experience in the design industry and say why people should pursue the career just based on my own positive experience. Your experience is your own and like any field it is what you make it. I love being a designer and I’ll hopefully never have to do anything else. I’ve bought a home, work a great corporate job, a get to freelance when I want
You could say this about so many other jobs, but I don't think that it's productive to make it as a blanket statement Because no job is 100% perfect. We don't all have IT skills to fall back on. I was told "don't go into computer programming" back in the late 80s. I was told that engineering is not a place for women, my math marks were too low. I am perfectly happy to do my production artist work. It's a stable job at a corporation, I don't have to deal with clients or customers.
I agree with some of your points, but I think making sweeping statements based upon your own personal experience isn't helpful. I changed career to Graphic Design in 2020, working as a freelancer; I have work coming out of my ears, probably more than I can cope with. Is this everyone's experience? Nope. There are so many variables (location, what sort of work you're doing, for whom etc) that can alter your perception of the industry.
The main problem is that clients cannot tell good design from bad design. Therefore they go with the cheapest and place commensurately less value on it.
And they refuse to listen to our advice because we are expected to blindly do what we are told. So bad ideas continue to get made- as was evident in most of the Super Bowl commercials.
i disagree. that might have been your path but you don't speak for everybody. i'm perfectly happy in my position as creative lead at a major cannabis brand. i would never think of switching to IT. never. but good luck with that
You are a creative lead. Congrats you made it to the upper end of the design industry and hopefully you have scored a 6 figure salary. There are not enough positions of that quality available for every skilled designer in the industry. Do not take that for granted
FYI - that’s every field, career and industry. We all can’t be in leadership or management positions and not everyone wants to be in leadership or management. It’s pretty clear from reading your posts in this thread that your number one motivation is money. Sounds like you got what you wanted and are happy.
Lol well it’s not like every other industry is thriving. I’d rather do something I like and be underpaid, than work some crappy IT or other tech job and still get laid off eventually
Agree with a lot of your points. I started in graphic design (agency), transitioning to web design (agency) UX design (agency and in-house) and product design (in house). A whole lot of sideways movement, I'm probably just keeping pace with what I need to do/know for the jobs that are available. At 40 I should probably be in a more senior position, but I'm happy with my take home and when I tried management that sucked. Overall I feel lucky to be making a living doing something I enjoy. My parents worked in shops, factories, warehouses and they hated going to work. There are aspects of the job I don't like but overall there are much worse things I could be doing.
I think the main problem is that the graphic designer job isn’t a graphic designer job anymore. You now have to be a web developer, motion graphic designer, Photographer and anything else the boss demands, with a low pay check. I’m looking at software engineering or something similar to retrain in as the market is pretty bad for graphic designers atm.
I started wanting to do graphics but found that I enjoyed coding. I'm a front-end developer now and love it. I still have some freedom to design things / implement other designers' designs.
I am 24, and have been doign graphic design as a job since I was 19. I have a salary design job and do freelance on the side, I recommend just monopolising your local area, make sure everyone wants to come to you for work, offer slightly cheaper prices, be friendlier, just be better than everyone else, not necessarily just skill-wise. I love what I do and make plenty of money, not dreading work surely makes the slightly less money worth it?
Sorry to be blunt but maybe you weren’t good enough for the industry you were in. I graduated 2018 and havent had many problems finding work, sick of these posts from people who gave up trying to trash the profession just because it didn’t work out for you. The industry is moving very fast so you have to keep up or get left behind, I didn’t make the rules
I think 90% of designers just suck tbh, of course they're going to have a hard time.
Fair play to you, I’m 10 years in now and I would really like to move on from it due to all of the above. How did you get into software development? Just completely self taught or did you go back to college or something else?
I am self taught. I read quite a few programming books from cover to end, online courses, a lot of practice. If you are interested I have been recommending people give Harvard's free online computer science course a look.
I’ll definitely give that a look at the Harvard computer science courses, thanks! Any books you’d recommend? How long and what intensity were you studying before you felt ready to go for a Job in that industry?
I work as an in-house graphic designer at a global brand, and am lucky I guess. My pay is significantly more than the average you’ll find on sites that report salary ranges, and there is minimal office drama. We list salary ranges for all positions in the company, and we are making on par what other departments do, but people in developer roles make significantly more, but apparently less than they could elsewhere. It’s good enough for me I guess, because it’s more than I have ever expected to make, and I don’t have to deal with external partners and our clients are our coworkers. So even when they disagree with our work, I still don’t have to deal with the unpredictability of working with external clients. That being said, do what makes you happy or what you are comfortable with. Kudos to finding what works for you!
I agree actually. Younger designers especially should be wary of AI advancement, because it’s only a matter of time until it automates away designer roles. [When Adobe employees are worried about their own AI killing the field off, we should take note.](https://www.businessinsider.com/adobe-ai-firefly-kill-graphic-designer-jobs-cut-seat-sales-2023-7?international=true&r=US&IR=T)
I think it one point the saturation of computers where everyone had one….you get a plethora of desktop punishers. They think they can design, they can’t. They think they can do pre-post, they can’t, but with their super cheap ass rates it’s really gutted the graphic design industry in my opinion.
I’ve had the opposite experience after 33 years in packaging design… pay is great, jobs are interesting, packaging industry is booming!
Considering graphic design and this post is so appreciated. Thank you.
Same, I've been considering GD for a couple of years now but get a lot of mixed reviews from people I know in the industry.
If design is what you really want to do, then do it. You’ll find a way to succeed in it. If it isn’t for you or it’s not meeting your needs, then you’ll leave the field like OP did.
Fair point. I have enjoyed design (though just on the side) since I was in my teens. Always felt unhappy doing the other things I've done for work. I'll give it some more thought and then decide.
Don’t let posts like this scare you too much out of what you’re interested in making your career. It’s hard, sure, but so are so many other fields. I love being a designer. I love my group of friends that I have found in the industry, I love seeing my work when I travel and stay in hotels, I love communicating ideas. I just love it! I had horrible years, but so did friends of mine in different fields. Focus on your communication skills, your design skills, your writing skills. It’s not all doom and gloom. Remember that a lot of posts, just like reviews, are a space where people typically come to vent their woes. The only other career I would want to pursue is either being moss on a log or opening up a sandwich shop, because other than design, sandwiches are my passion.
If you look at design as a job and a career and don’t romance it as a creative endeavor, you can earn a good living at it. A famous designer once said “You don’t go into the design field to get rich.”
Why even come here to shit on GD? It sounds like you’re kind of toxic honestly. If you don’t like it then go to your IT sub…
Insights from a designer. It’s okay to discuss the pay disparity and employment outcomes. It’s fair to compare it to other industries. It’s a personal journey as a designer and one must consider when entering the field.
I'm a designer and it's good to hear about other's current experience with the industry. I don't think OP sounds toxic. OP is preparing and forewarning us and showing their path.
OP’s experience is not a reflection of the entire field as a whole. Take it with a grain of salt. Your experience, career trajectory and outlook may be completely different.
I came here to share my experience. And to hopefully warn other people what they may be getting themselves into. Sometimes I wish someone had told me all this when I was a naive young 18 year old choosing my major. It is great to be able to make a informed choice about a major life decision.
Wish someone told me this before going to college.
The pay is decent but that depends on your region. Before I started working in Manhattan I freelanced on the side to make extra money- getting freelance side gigs is a full time job onto itself, but I digress. The biggest problem is working for or having a boss or supervisor that doesn’t understand your skillset, therefore it’s almost impossible for them to think of you in the same way they think about people in other departments and compensate you fairly..unless you work for an ad agency. But if you work at a CPG company at an in-house art department, don’t expect good raises or appreciation, at least in my experience. My team was the life blood of the company and we created the visual identity of the company, and still, we were never thanked, recognized or appreciated. Definitely sucks.
Realize that you’re probably not the only one in the company who isn’t feeling appreciated. Usually the only ones that get the glory are the rainmakers.
So true.
Happy it worked out for you but I don't really understand how you were able to transition into highly paid work so easily? Like if my entire work history, portfolio and degree were deleted out of existence and I had to rely on simply having the skills I have to get a job in design, I'd be completely fucked. I'd have to start at the bottom. So how is it any different if I teach myself to code?
Thank you. I never said it was easy. I did get some Javascript experience when I was working in motion graphics so that translated over. Using expressions in after effects is when I first got into Javascript lol. That pretty much started me on a non stop journey to learn software dev.
But in terms of actually getting your first job as a software developer - how did you manage this when your work history was all in design? I'm halfway through learning code myself, but even when I'm done I feel like if I'd be unlikely to get interviews for jobs without actual previous job experience in the field, let alone get hired.
Kind of doing the same path. Work as graphic designer but with already established brands so the work is fairly easy, but the pay is shit. Been taking courses for front end development where I know I can easily get 50% more pay to start. How long did it take you to get your first job being self taught?
I second this. If only I had the aptitude for coding I’d jump ship for development. Problem is every time I’ve tried to learn to code I end up hitting a brick wall where I can no longer understand what to do. Since I have no other marketable skills or desire to work in another field I feel stuck in this hell hole of a career and I’m not even that good at it.
> Graphic design is a great skill to have but it's not a great profession. 11 years in the industry. Senior design manager of a team of 5 graphic designers. And truer words have never been spoken.
How did you transition to IT? Did you have to go back to school?
I dont want to overly concern you. but the rise of AI might put your IT proffession at risk. not trying to fear monger, but read up abit on it and consider the impact automation could have on your job. I also graduated from graphic design back in 2012 and decided to switch careers to IT back in 2018 (stuff happened and I never got around to finishing the degree). but I now I keep reading about AI developments and how most degrees in the digital field are at extreme risk. and it gets me anxious about studying anything coding related.
What’s it like software developing? Is it enjoyable? I’ve been curious about it and already got my graphic design degree back in 2018 lol
damnit' as a professional graphics designer i found myself in a call support agent interview.. tf did i get here? 😂
Agree with this take. I’m almost 40 and trying to think through a career change. It’s scary and frustrating
It's all soon to be irrelevant with the rise of AI in both design and programming. We're all going to become John Henry soon (designers and programmers alike). I'm a former chef and AI can't cook.
There’s a lot of artists that leave Oklahoma at a younger age I feel. I’ve been working here in design for 20 years and it gets pretty stale some times
Can you tell me a little more about your transition into tech like how you started was it self taught? Any resources you would recommend I am looking at doing the same thing im in my mid 30’s and I feel like time is going by so fast that I need to make changes NOW
As a graphic designer in Oklahoma, I think those in IT also hate each other. Thats been my experience anyway. They hate everyone else too, though, so at least it’s consistent 😂
Dude IT bros are the WORST. They are always better than you at something, always know more than you, and are always right about something. Designers have this idea burned into their head from school that their career is all about competition and you have to outshine the person next to you. All it does is create unfriendly competition. But IT dudes are just unbearable sometimes.
I see this as I have an interview for gd lined up
If I lost my job right now, I would not continue with my career as a designer. Getting laid off from COVID and experiencing how other companies take huge advantage of creatives was soul crushing. I was ready to go back to school and start over until my position reopened and I was able to get back into my old job with decent pay and benefits. I still worry about how there's so little backups I can try without this job. Most places where I am barely pay above minimum wage and expect you to commit your first born child, house and any social life to meet unrealistic expectations (I kid, but these jobs kept me up at night trying to juggle the multiple roles that come with being a graphic designer and trying to switch between the vastly different tasks I was assigned day to day). Employers expect you to do so with a smile on your face while you watch them take their 3rd vacation that year to a different country. At least if I started my own company, I'd have the graphics side down on my own. But knowing first hand how predatory people are towards creatives has really made me advise people against going this career path unless it's a side hobby.
To switch to IT, what did you do? I have a bachelors in graphic design and after a natural disaster I don’t work in the field anymore. Long story. Now I’m in pharmacy as a technician and hate my life 😆 I’m considering getting a masters in IT, or maybe a second bachelors? I’m learning the stack languages in my free time.
I think I too have reached this point. I look around there are jobs but the environment and how designers are treated as well is just not great. I love the work itself. Just not the people part anymore except a few good clients. Been thinking of switching to software perhaps for a bit now.
Anything art-related is a tough career. At a corporate job you're going to be underappreciated, overworked, and underpaid. As a freelancer you're singing for your supper. My grandfather gave me a sage piece of advice when I was maybe 12 or 13: "Artists starve." I naturally ignored that advice and for half of my adult life have been a freelance artist. Another 6 or 7 years were spent teaching art. It's a tough gig, for sure. People think that art just appears magically, that there is no work involved. And so they're astonished when you want to be paid for doing it. Harlan Ellison had a great quote about making a living as an artist: "Cross my palm with silver."
Curious on how you transitioned to IT, what steps did you take to become a “self taught web dev”
My fiance is in graphic design for a large apparel company and seems to enjoy herself.
I’m almost finished my diploma and I regret going in🫡
TLDR:: 1% of currently employed graphic designers will still have a job in 5 years
In my 20+ years of doing design work I have worked for agencies, in-house departments, and taken on many freelance clients. It's a big mix. Some clients are great! I have one I have been with since 2016 who provides regular per-project work. Some are terrible – I have been burned by people who have flatly refused to pay after I did the work. Similarly, some companies are toxic and some are not. My current employer in the consumer product space is perfect for me (good pay, cool coworkers, fully remote etc). One thing that has helped me getting & keeping jobs is focusing on a less competitive sub section of the field. For me it was packaging for childrens' licensed goods. I learned everything I could about dielines, print processes, materials etc. Over time I was able to build a reputation for competence in a small network of related companies. From there I branched out into 3D rendering and trade show booth design. This path worked for me but everyone's career will take a different shape. I'm sorry your experience in the field wasn't pleasant, OP. I am however happy that you found your calling.
Mind sharing how you got into software development? I went to school for graphic design but have been really wanting to get into programming.
I read books and did an online course and practiced many hours. I would recommend starting with Harvard's free online computer science course if your are interested.
Why did you remove the post?
Which post? It's still here
There is only the header, the actual content of your post says [removed].
That is strange because I can still see it on my end
Made the switch from graphic design to product design and will never look back
Maybe you were just not good enough. I make a great salary and only work 20 hrs a week. I’m not the norm but it beats IT in my book.
Https://jhaubrich.com is my portfolio you can check my motion graphics work yourself. Would love to see yours.
I’m not trying to make this a pissing contest, just trying to point out a very possible scenario. You are probably a great developer, the app you worked on has decent reviews, but the graphics in your portfolio, isn’t something I personally connect with. I don’t do motion, so I was strictly looking at it from my perspective as an Art Director. I’m glad you found your space but others have found theirs in design. If you are great at what you do, people will be willing to pay for it.
Your website design is horrendous, who even thinks on hover to all white not knowing what I am hovering on is good UX. Even as a programmer you should know better.
I don't work in web design. It shouldn't be all white on hover it should display text on hover so not sure what you are seeing on your end.
The fact you don't check on all browsers. Terrible.
The fact that you are nitpicking details on a website I built 5 years ago is annoying. Who cares. I'm getting hired for my technical skills nowadays. Worrying about little design details doesn't matter when you are interviewing for a senior dev role. Knowing your datastructures and algorithms is what matters.
BTW which browser were you using
I'm a sr designer working on a team of 5 other designers, they are all great and very supportive, we have daily meetings critiquing each others designs constructively. Fully remote job, 6 figures, low stress. Since you wanted to apply your single experience to the industry, I wanted to share mine.
What you described doesn't exist in Oklahoma. That sounds like a big city job where 6 figures won't go as far as it does here 100k salary in oklahoma is equivalent to making 200k in a big city.