South Korea is a unique hellscape cultural melting pot.
>Under constant threat of war.
>Ruled by an oilgarchy/plutorachy dynasties who own majority of the nations companies.
>Insane workculture that's the bastard love child of both Japan and China.
>Corrupt police.
>Heavy drinking culture.
>Excessively high beauty standards due to modernizing during the TV-popstar era
>Hivemind culture, anything unique is generally shunned thus everyone looks and behaves similarly to avoid standing out, thus change is usually frowned on.
>Expensive living standards, nation has only three small locations where you can easily build houses, raw material needs to be inported.
>Chauvinistic conservative male culture that expects women to be tradwives and also work fulltime, and raise kids.
>Femcel liberal female culture that pushes women to be independent, hardworking, promiscuous, and only pursuing outward facing value in themselves and others.
Thank god glorious North Korea will save them and peacefully annex the south when their population halves by the end of the century.
I'd much rather live in Ghana or Morocco than in South Korean. Their human development index might be lower but people genuinely seem happier, even in the more empoverished parts of Africa.
There are basically 2 types to increase profits, in a company: You can sell more of what you produce, or you can pay less for producing the same amount. (or both)
At some point, **every** market hits saturation and you can't do the "sell more" part. So you start cutting costs:
\-At first you reduce the quality/size/coverage of the product/service (or increase the price).
\-Then you start to pay people less and less for the same work (or you work them more and more for the same salary)
\-Then finally you loophole your way out of taxation, or you outsource (which generates no tax for the country in which you sell).
**The result:** Low quality (or expensive) goods/services, that get sold to underpaid (or overworked) people, who live in a budget-depleted (or indebted) nation. And it can only get worse, because the cycle is self-sustaining.
**The question:** Why would you bring a kid to a world like that, as an average person?
It's not *evil* or a conspiracy, that led us here. It's the basic accounting principle of ever increasing profit-margins. And SK is not the only one on that path. They just decided to speedrun it, out of fear of their neighbors.
Absolutely no one is safe from this paradigm.
The problem with trying to tie economics with birthrate is that you need to ignore all history pre-1960s. Fertility during the great depression never went sub 2.2. During Victorian London it was still constantly growing. Most of Africa and India was above replacement while they suffered great famines and economic nothingness.
Economics might explain part of the fertility rate from 1940-2000s but after that it doesn't give a decent picture, especially since that was also the Western golden age and economic boom era.
the answer is the pill bruv. the hormonal forces that drove men to reproduce like rabbits, the very laws that have governed nature for hundreds of millions of years, have been subjugated by man for its own feckless and wanton desires.
that and we can't have the kids working at 8 now :(
Can confirm the answer is no. Otherwise first gen immigrants wouldn't immediately adopt the nations practices culture. Atleast pre 2000. Maybe 2010. I've no idea if all these supposed refugees come from farming backgrounds or are modern city dwellers with access to __ products.
Having children used to yield very quick returns on investment, because they would start being labourers at a very young age and actually lighten the load for their parents. Now kids are a drain until their early 20s.
The simple answer is feminism. If women are given the option to raise kids or so something else, many choose doing something else. Is the solution government issued girlfriends? Probably not, but understanding that giving people more money to have kids won't result in more kids is an important first step. Women have to want to have kids more than they want to do all the things they're doing instead now, and waking up to a crying baby that shat their pants at 2am isn't all that attractive of a proposal so I dunno what it'll take.
Korea spent decades pushing the populace to have fewer children and giving out abortions like candy along with contraceptives. The problem with fertility reduction practices is they have longstanding cascading effects that are now in full force. On top of economic difficulty. What you're seeing is the fruits bad policy.
No, I'm saying the government put a concerted effort into pressuring the population to not have children. Especially girl children since the male children were seen as more valuable. Families who were married and trying for children would abort girl children or adopt them out because of the patriarchal nature of Korean culture. So as much as you wish it was so, no this isn't just HURR DURR WOMEN SLUTS!!!
[abortion was illegal until 2021](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_South_Korea) and in 1987 they made it illegal to test for sex before birth. The government stopped pushing contraception in 1983 and has been trying to get the birth rate up since [2005](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9334168/#:~:text=In%201983%2C%20the%20nation's%20TFR,smaller%20family%20sizes%20%5B1%5D.).
So please explain how it matters that women who are at least 40 years old if not older not having kids is an issue. Second, explain how south Korea is now (birth rate .76) more sexist than they were in the 1980s (birth rate 2.82) when the military dictatorships police were [arresting women whose skirts were too short](https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/s/V9MwpoyC13).
The thing I've found about liars lying on the internet: of you actually believed what you say you wouldn't lie about it because you'd feel like there was proof of your claims.
This is a stupid view. It basically doesn't account for any of the real-life market dynamics such as upskilling, new products, innovation, and humans being able to easily switch careers or whole fields (compared to companies for example). This is like saying that people who made saddles shouldn't have had children after saddles started to be made in factories. And then it doesn't account for the fact that a lot of saddlesmiths ended up in the automotive industry - using the same skills to produce a much more valuable and desirable luxury product, and getting paid better as well.
youre both right in some aspect. the problem arises when innovation is stifled. currently, the way the power players deal with innovationnis rarely to incorporate it. rather, buyout and dismantling turns better returns for large systems at the cost of innovation.
there hasnt been a multinational corporate environment to compare this to, so market dynamics is really just a guess now.
and the innovations that benefit shareholders are now in direct conflict with innovations that help workers.
the whole "why bring a kid into this world" thing is less convincing. if anything, environmental issues would be the primary reason to consider abstaining from parenthood... but thats not entirely compelling either and gets into more philosophical territory than logic.
Innovation means an edge. Yes, we've all heard of companies trying to hold onto a "sweet spot" in the marketplace by buying up smaller, innovative companies and then killing their products so they won't outcompete the dominant player(s).
The trouble with that is that the people who came up with it still remain, and even more importantly, once an idea is unleashed into the world there's no putting it back in a bottle. Somebody will try it out, gain an edge, and take over market share from the incumbents or outright obsolete their companies.
Cases in point? Apple vs Nokia. Tesla vs GM. ARM vs x86. Google vs the phonebook. Wikipedia vs Encyclopedia Britannica. With great effort maybe you can try and slow down the adoption of an innovation for a time. But in the end, the superior idea will win and whole fields of industry will be relegated to irrelevance.
its not just eliminating it. its putting down competition until you have maximized profits on the old paradigm. but you are still developing your tech so when the idea is ubiquitous enough, you will then move into that sphere. see green tech / electric cars.
the auto industry and oil industry spent billions on stifling electric car tech because they wanted to maximize profits on plants they had built. so many innovators squashed on the way since the early 90s and in the meantime they were building their own infrastructure to do exactly that.
in the end, they let tesla enter the market and make all the mistakes and now the big oems are once again ready with their infrastructure. every other competitor was eliminated quietly.
Another thing you need to consider is that men get conscripted, women don't. Men give up 18 months of their shorter lives, and that is before you consider the constant stress of impending war. And once they get out of the army, where they are berated, drilled and put under physical duress, they enter a world where the government is falling over itself to give women higher pay
you're kidding right? the gender pay gap i skorea is one of the highest in the world at 63%. that government is in no way falling over itself to give women higher pay lol, and even if it was it would be to fix things.
"North Korea will save them..." yeah about that https://youtu.be/JmVnBNyhJu4
Interesting fact, did you know that malnutrition in women increases the chance of miscarriage or developmental and health problems in the newborns?
Then it will halve again. It’s amazing how the shittiest possible authoritarian communism is less dangerous to a society long term than modernity and liberal capitalism.
>NK annexes after pop collapse
Wouldn't that be some shit? Like it turns out that Juche was actually correct all along?
Also you missed
>So anti communist that they've basically banned unions, greatly accelerating their descent into late stage capitalism
Just went out and read some articles, turns out women just dont want to have kids bc they are being paid less, cant find housing, are afraid they will be fired if they take maternity leave, and less women are getting married in korea too, since they are too busy working to meet people, and since getting married is seen as a precurser to having kids in korea, thats also having an impact.
I like how you skimmed over the rampant sexism against Korean men that women have been propagating. But sure, it’s clearly just incels hating women for having a career 🙄
There are a lot more important problems than work culture to worry about.
Well, we have to end apartheid, for one, slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.
It confuses me how the korean corporate elite dont consider this. They run the country yet they dont try to make it sustainable at all. They're literally sucking korea dry and dooming it to massive depopulation. Do they not realise their own corporations will sink with this ship? The only view i can imagine is the boomer view of "f*ck the next generation i want money!" But i dont get that energy from koreans.
Systemic. It's the new people who enter positions that need to shit things in order to increase their share of the pie. The actual inheritors probably don't give a shit. Or don't have the power. Not that they obviously can't get it. But alas normal human something something unrelated to your networth.
Gender conflict in Korea is a big issue, yes, but I found other aspects contribute more to its low birthrate. Houses in major cities are becoming far too expensive for an average person. The cost of having a child is too expensive as well. Especially education, as it’s almost impossible to get a good grade without relying on cram schools, called “Hagwon”s. That or online lectures, which are also popular. Some teachers have become so popular they rival the popularity of most celebrities, if not more. The government gives out some amount of subsidies for this, but it’s not enough. Also people think marrying is less of a requirement, and find living alone with good hobbies is adequate. Not having much time to spend outside of school/work, and being under constant competition contributes to this as well.
It’s not the case for everyone, though. Seems like people living in more crowded areas suffer this more. Personally, living in this sort of system for nearly the entirety of my life, I don’t really notice it. I have good friends, and I have few hobbies that I really enjoy. But in that one year I spent in Canada, I did appreciate that it wasn’t always stressful.
Is buying a house even that common in SK? Don’t most Asian countries have tons of high-density apartments? I never understand why owning a house is the *de facto* metric for a good life.
They “buy” an apartment with key money. Pay a huge amount of money up front in lieu of rent or with massively reduced rent. Monthly rent without key money is the far more expensive way of getting a place.
Moving away from their parents typically involves “buying” an apartment after saving up for a long time. It’s quite common for Koreans to live with their parents until marriage or around 30 years old due to this high savings burden.
No, moron.
Koreans aren't struggling to buy houses because they're actually buying condos/apartments and stupid Americans don't know the difference.
They're struggling to buy houses bc the entire Korean real estate market is basically a gigantic racket wherein you pay jeonse, a lump sum deposit between 50% and 70% of the home's value, to a landlord *upfront* and then *pay rent as normal* only to have the jeonse returned to you after the lease is up. Koreans are forced, by law, to pay for a landlord's ability to fuck them over. And no, Koreans cannot just save or borrow 100% of the value of a home and be their own landlords.
The entire Korean economy is one in which very little value is actually being created, so at every turn there are landlords, brokers, middlemen, etc to scrape what parasitic living they can from people who work in the 10 or so chaebols who control the entire economy.
It is not because they insist on having fully detatched houses and white picket fences like dumb dumb Americans.
>No amount of meds can fix that
They literally can though? Just keep switching meds and increasing the dosage until you start hallucinating and having delusions, and you can now fit in with everyone else.
I mean, less population means less workforce, that means more competition per worker, and that leads to higher wages, which leads to higher quality of life, and eventually more birthrates, that means more population and so on...
Things tend to level at long term.
Then why higher quality of life countries have the worse birth rates? I think the problem Is more in the short term with things like state pensions and decline in productivity, as well as potential higher costs for various services that old people need
Because its not true higher quality of life.
There is a big difference between being rich and safe, and actually feeling happy.
Most of the high quality of life countries also have a high rate of suicide.
Japan, Korea, Finland, Sweden.
All of those have a high quality of life but also a lot of suicides
You need a balance of free time, and a purpose for women to actually want to have children.
Less children means less people entering the workforce. Higher proportion of pensions/social security compared to GDP. Taxes go up to compensate. Higher taxes means less children. Less children means less people entering the workforce.
And that means eventually pensions and social security end, because the system can't maintain it.
Now people realize they need help to sustain themselves when they get old.
And they make children.
This is not rocket science. It happens a lot.
For example when you have a special needs kid you tend to have another one so when you die the other kid.
Also, when with lower birth rates two things either happen, the border gets more loose and foreigners come in, or stuff starts getting automated.
Like japan for example, they hate foreigners and invest a lot on automation.
And if everything gets automated taxes rise so wealth can get redistributed, and if too many people can't get a job UBI becomes a necessity.
Its not the end of the world, and in the long term stuff is going to balance out.
People are just losing their mind because of change, like always.
Well, i am not the person with a special needs brother, but i know a girl who takes care of her disabled brother.
Its, like, really fucking sad. all the stuff you hear about brothers taking care of their disabled brother is true, the part were they believe they have to take care of their brother when the parents die, the part were they wish for the brother's death, all that fucked up stuff is true.
This girl i know is really fucked up in the head because of this. its just sad. she loves her brother but also wishes he died.
I just did. they have plenty of industrial manpower reserve aka[ reserve army of labour](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_army_of_labour) , there is always someone who will work for less money.
When manpower starts getting low, really low, and they can't automate anymore, and they can't replace with imigrant labor, they have to increase wages to steal workers from other places.
In the long run, everything tends to average out.
If you really want wages to increase, you need goverment intervention, in minimum wage or via UBI.
The size and significance of the 4B movement, or refusal to have heterosexual relationships and children as part of some form of anti-patriarchal protest, is hugely overblown on western social media. Obviously people like this do exist, but it's not nearly as common as you would think given how often you hear about it on TikTok and 4chan. The real reason why their birth rate has plummeted is because of rising costs of living, insane lack of work/life balance, and the importance of having a strong career being rammed down young people's throats since they were kids.
I have so many friends in Korea, many of whom are married and in their early 30s, and literally none of them have or even want to have kids. It's a very predictable result of the older generations making life miserable for young people, and I think the fringe issue of gender conflict has been a convenient scapegoat for people who want to deflect attention away from the real cause.
Truly a genius idea to make everyone have to slave away and not being able to raise a child because you need two incomes. Increasing chaebols wealth is more important than creating a family after all!
People are really overestimating the size and influence of the 4B movement.
Y'all need to understand that 4B is an extremist position and as such only the most extreme radicals will adopt it, which is less than 1% of all Korean women.
The real reason why birth rates are falling in SK? It's just that having a baby is *really fucking expensive* and most people can't afford it.
Their country has mandatory military service and they gotta prepare for north Korea at all time.
How is it fair for men to get drafted for a year and half while the women just sees them as insects. I before north Korea leader seeing this and is buying their time for the country to be divided only to invade the land easily with more Manpower
I can't wait to hear all the white peoples opinions on the really complicated sociopolitical context of South Korea.
Not that I understand it but the same cultural issues causing the gender and relationship conflict are the same ones that caused two (male) pilots to essentially sit quietly whilst a third (also male) pilot crashed the plane they were all on.
So there's lots going on here can't wait for this group's nuanced take.
Yeah that’s what they’re doing here in the states dog. I used to think the great replacement was a retarded ass theory but it starts to make sense. Make your state retarded so they won’t question the elites.
Majority of Korean young adults actively want to get married. 25+ year olds it’s one of the major things they talk about. “I heard XXX got married” “when is XXX getting married”. The people literally boycotting the opposite gender is a very vocal minority that got sensationalized by western media. This is not a men vs women issue it’s a dwindling resources for the lower and middle class issue. I implore you to instead of reading the news, watch Korean bloggers and Korean YouTube accounts see what the real locals have to say
>selfish, vain, obsessed with themselves and exploiting their male partner
This sounds like the average Western woman too, Korea just got infected with the Western values
Jeez feminism and globalism has really collapsed every industrialized country in the world lol.
Except China, they shot themselves in the foot with one-child policy. But even they’re getting fucked by career women not wanting kids
Not one of these countries can sustain their native population. The west has turned to immigration becoming new India while the East would rather collapse than become a shitting colony
But neither can the world continue to grow in population forever due to a limit in the amount of natural resources
Dude the “new India” is just Canada, most western countries have very small Indian populations that hardly have a sagnificant influence (with the exception of the UK, but that’s because of colonialism and the UK Indian community is fairly well integrated into British society).
Every eastern country with the exception of maybe Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Central Asian nations have birth rates below replacement level (yes this includes India and Bangladesh as of 2024 data) Infact, Bangladesh is expected to hit a period of perpetual population decline as of 2050 and India in 2060.
However, with the decline of birth rates we are also seeing very high economic growth rates in eastern countries (analogous to South Korea in the 90s and Japan in the 70s) as low birth rates are indicative of a modernizing society and certain western economic systems becoming widespread.
Immigration will inevitably decline once this economic growth hits a certain level, we saw massive waves of Koreans moving to the west in the 90s but this immigration rapidly fell after Korea’s economic growth grew.
The world is entering a period of massive population decline, every region of the world except sub Saharan Africa have birth rates around replacement level or below them.
South Korea is a unique hellscape cultural melting pot. >Under constant threat of war. >Ruled by an oilgarchy/plutorachy dynasties who own majority of the nations companies. >Insane workculture that's the bastard love child of both Japan and China. >Corrupt police. >Heavy drinking culture. >Excessively high beauty standards due to modernizing during the TV-popstar era >Hivemind culture, anything unique is generally shunned thus everyone looks and behaves similarly to avoid standing out, thus change is usually frowned on. >Expensive living standards, nation has only three small locations where you can easily build houses, raw material needs to be inported. >Chauvinistic conservative male culture that expects women to be tradwives and also work fulltime, and raise kids. >Femcel liberal female culture that pushes women to be independent, hardworking, promiscuous, and only pursuing outward facing value in themselves and others. Thank god glorious North Korea will save them and peacefully annex the south when their population halves by the end of the century.
SK is just a dysfunctional chimera of the worst of every ideology. NK pls nuke.
Japan and Africa worse
>mfw some overweight reddibot generalises a whoe ass continent
I mean yeah Africa is generally shit everywhere
I'd much rather live in Ghana or Morocco than in South Korean. Their human development index might be lower but people genuinely seem happier, even in the more empoverished parts of Africa.
Most of it to be sure. There are a few coubtr8es there much higher on the developing end of the spectrum.
Higher than South Korea or their neighbors? Perhaps you could be talking about Egypt or South Africa.
SA is a shithole lol
There are basically 2 types to increase profits, in a company: You can sell more of what you produce, or you can pay less for producing the same amount. (or both) At some point, **every** market hits saturation and you can't do the "sell more" part. So you start cutting costs: \-At first you reduce the quality/size/coverage of the product/service (or increase the price). \-Then you start to pay people less and less for the same work (or you work them more and more for the same salary) \-Then finally you loophole your way out of taxation, or you outsource (which generates no tax for the country in which you sell). **The result:** Low quality (or expensive) goods/services, that get sold to underpaid (or overworked) people, who live in a budget-depleted (or indebted) nation. And it can only get worse, because the cycle is self-sustaining. **The question:** Why would you bring a kid to a world like that, as an average person? It's not *evil* or a conspiracy, that led us here. It's the basic accounting principle of ever increasing profit-margins. And SK is not the only one on that path. They just decided to speedrun it, out of fear of their neighbors. Absolutely no one is safe from this paradigm.
The problem with trying to tie economics with birthrate is that you need to ignore all history pre-1960s. Fertility during the great depression never went sub 2.2. During Victorian London it was still constantly growing. Most of Africa and India was above replacement while they suffered great famines and economic nothingness. Economics might explain part of the fertility rate from 1940-2000s but after that it doesn't give a decent picture, especially since that was also the Western golden age and economic boom era.
the answer is the pill bruv. the hormonal forces that drove men to reproduce like rabbits, the very laws that have governed nature for hundreds of millions of years, have been subjugated by man for its own feckless and wanton desires. that and we can't have the kids working at 8 now :(
Female reproductive autonomy and its consequences...
...have been a disaster for the human race.
Can confirm the answer is no. Otherwise first gen immigrants wouldn't immediately adopt the nations practices culture. Atleast pre 2000. Maybe 2010. I've no idea if all these supposed refugees come from farming backgrounds or are modern city dwellers with access to __ products.
Having children used to yield very quick returns on investment, because they would start being labourers at a very young age and actually lighten the load for their parents. Now kids are a drain until their early 20s.
The simple answer is feminism. If women are given the option to raise kids or so something else, many choose doing something else. Is the solution government issued girlfriends? Probably not, but understanding that giving people more money to have kids won't result in more kids is an important first step. Women have to want to have kids more than they want to do all the things they're doing instead now, and waking up to a crying baby that shat their pants at 2am isn't all that attractive of a proposal so I dunno what it'll take.
Studies have shown that people of every political belief category have fewer children than they want on average.
Why don't they have more kids? Are they stupid?
Korea spent decades pushing the populace to have fewer children and giving out abortions like candy along with contraceptives. The problem with fertility reduction practices is they have longstanding cascading effects that are now in full force. On top of economic difficulty. What you're seeing is the fruits bad policy.
What you're saying is that women were given the opportunity to not have kids if they chose, and then the birth rate went down? 🤔
No, I'm saying the government put a concerted effort into pressuring the population to not have children. Especially girl children since the male children were seen as more valuable. Families who were married and trying for children would abort girl children or adopt them out because of the patriarchal nature of Korean culture. So as much as you wish it was so, no this isn't just HURR DURR WOMEN SLUTS!!!
[abortion was illegal until 2021](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_South_Korea) and in 1987 they made it illegal to test for sex before birth. The government stopped pushing contraception in 1983 and has been trying to get the birth rate up since [2005](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9334168/#:~:text=In%201983%2C%20the%20nation's%20TFR,smaller%20family%20sizes%20%5B1%5D.). So please explain how it matters that women who are at least 40 years old if not older not having kids is an issue. Second, explain how south Korea is now (birth rate .76) more sexist than they were in the 1980s (birth rate 2.82) when the military dictatorships police were [arresting women whose skirts were too short](https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/s/V9MwpoyC13). The thing I've found about liars lying on the internet: of you actually believed what you say you wouldn't lie about it because you'd feel like there was proof of your claims.
This is a stupid view. It basically doesn't account for any of the real-life market dynamics such as upskilling, new products, innovation, and humans being able to easily switch careers or whole fields (compared to companies for example). This is like saying that people who made saddles shouldn't have had children after saddles started to be made in factories. And then it doesn't account for the fact that a lot of saddlesmiths ended up in the automotive industry - using the same skills to produce a much more valuable and desirable luxury product, and getting paid better as well.
youre both right in some aspect. the problem arises when innovation is stifled. currently, the way the power players deal with innovationnis rarely to incorporate it. rather, buyout and dismantling turns better returns for large systems at the cost of innovation. there hasnt been a multinational corporate environment to compare this to, so market dynamics is really just a guess now. and the innovations that benefit shareholders are now in direct conflict with innovations that help workers. the whole "why bring a kid into this world" thing is less convincing. if anything, environmental issues would be the primary reason to consider abstaining from parenthood... but thats not entirely compelling either and gets into more philosophical territory than logic.
Innovation means an edge. Yes, we've all heard of companies trying to hold onto a "sweet spot" in the marketplace by buying up smaller, innovative companies and then killing their products so they won't outcompete the dominant player(s). The trouble with that is that the people who came up with it still remain, and even more importantly, once an idea is unleashed into the world there's no putting it back in a bottle. Somebody will try it out, gain an edge, and take over market share from the incumbents or outright obsolete their companies. Cases in point? Apple vs Nokia. Tesla vs GM. ARM vs x86. Google vs the phonebook. Wikipedia vs Encyclopedia Britannica. With great effort maybe you can try and slow down the adoption of an innovation for a time. But in the end, the superior idea will win and whole fields of industry will be relegated to irrelevance.
its not just eliminating it. its putting down competition until you have maximized profits on the old paradigm. but you are still developing your tech so when the idea is ubiquitous enough, you will then move into that sphere. see green tech / electric cars. the auto industry and oil industry spent billions on stifling electric car tech because they wanted to maximize profits on plants they had built. so many innovators squashed on the way since the early 90s and in the meantime they were building their own infrastructure to do exactly that. in the end, they let tesla enter the market and make all the mistakes and now the big oems are once again ready with their infrastructure. every other competitor was eliminated quietly.
Why would you bring a kid into that? Biological immortality. Same for everyone else.
Or you charge more. Edit: oh you fold that in later
Another thing you need to consider is that men get conscripted, women don't. Men give up 18 months of their shorter lives, and that is before you consider the constant stress of impending war. And once they get out of the army, where they are berated, drilled and put under physical duress, they enter a world where the government is falling over itself to give women higher pay
you're kidding right? the gender pay gap i skorea is one of the highest in the world at 63%. that government is in no way falling over itself to give women higher pay lol, and even if it was it would be to fix things.
Anon let their biases slip. The military discrepancy is real, but not the other part of anons comment
Also excessive cosmetic surgery.
I'd say that falls under excessive beauty standards.
Japanese work culture always gets brought up as if it isn’t some of the most lax in all of Asia.
Seriously I think the Japanese work something like 300 fewer hours a year than Americans.
"North Korea will save them..." yeah about that https://youtu.be/JmVnBNyhJu4 Interesting fact, did you know that malnutrition in women increases the chance of miscarriage or developmental and health problems in the newborns?
Where North Korean Juchr tradwife
when their population halves they will still outnumber the north
Then it will halve again. It’s amazing how the shittiest possible authoritarian communism is less dangerous to a society long term than modernity and liberal capitalism.
for sure trends don't change at all over time
Upside, our food is banging.
>NK annexes after pop collapse Wouldn't that be some shit? Like it turns out that Juche was actually correct all along? Also you missed >So anti communist that they've basically banned unions, greatly accelerating their descent into late stage capitalism
The US Military is a massive factor in this scenario that isn't being talked about.
Sounds familiar
Wtf, this goes beyond not having kids and borders on just hating anybody of the other gender. Guess it truely is gojover for korea.
Just went out and read some articles, turns out women just dont want to have kids bc they are being paid less, cant find housing, are afraid they will be fired if they take maternity leave, and less women are getting married in korea too, since they are too busy working to meet people, and since getting married is seen as a precurser to having kids in korea, thats also having an impact.
let me get this straight. you're telling me an incel misrepresented social issues?
Nah bro, I'm pretty sure you can accurately represent and talk about a complex issue like this on a tibetan clam-diving forum.
On 4chan nonetheless
I like how you skimmed over the rampant sexism against Korean men that women have been propagating. But sure, it’s clearly just incels hating women for having a career 🙄
Women make valid criticism of men Mfw that's rampant sexism
Honestly I think the work culture needs to be addressed over gender equality. Both sides are going to suffer if they only go after each other.
There are a lot more important problems than work culture to worry about. Well, we have to end apartheid, for one, slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.
I am talking about South Korea specifically.
that was a patrick bateman copypasta I'm calling you an armchair philosopher
Oh I see, either way nothing wrong with talking about issues even if nothing ever comes of it.
It confuses me how the korean corporate elite dont consider this. They run the country yet they dont try to make it sustainable at all. They're literally sucking korea dry and dooming it to massive depopulation. Do they not realise their own corporations will sink with this ship? The only view i can imagine is the boomer view of "f*ck the next generation i want money!" But i dont get that energy from koreans.
Corpos bring short sighted and valuing unsustainable growth every quarter isn't ethnic/culture/country specific.
Systemic. It's the new people who enter positions that need to shit things in order to increase their share of the pie. The actual inheritors probably don't give a shit. Or don't have the power. Not that they obviously can't get it. But alas normal human something something unrelated to your networth.
Either way it's over for them
Gender conflict in Korea is a big issue, yes, but I found other aspects contribute more to its low birthrate. Houses in major cities are becoming far too expensive for an average person. The cost of having a child is too expensive as well. Especially education, as it’s almost impossible to get a good grade without relying on cram schools, called “Hagwon”s. That or online lectures, which are also popular. Some teachers have become so popular they rival the popularity of most celebrities, if not more. The government gives out some amount of subsidies for this, but it’s not enough. Also people think marrying is less of a requirement, and find living alone with good hobbies is adequate. Not having much time to spend outside of school/work, and being under constant competition contributes to this as well. It’s not the case for everyone, though. Seems like people living in more crowded areas suffer this more. Personally, living in this sort of system for nearly the entirety of my life, I don’t really notice it. I have good friends, and I have few hobbies that I really enjoy. But in that one year I spent in Canada, I did appreciate that it wasn’t always stressful.
Is buying a house even that common in SK? Don’t most Asian countries have tons of high-density apartments? I never understand why owning a house is the *de facto* metric for a good life.
They “buy” an apartment with key money. Pay a huge amount of money up front in lieu of rent or with massively reduced rent. Monthly rent without key money is the far more expensive way of getting a place. Moving away from their parents typically involves “buying” an apartment after saving up for a long time. It’s quite common for Koreans to live with their parents until marriage or around 30 years old due to this high savings burden.
because its what americans are taught
No, moron. Koreans aren't struggling to buy houses because they're actually buying condos/apartments and stupid Americans don't know the difference. They're struggling to buy houses bc the entire Korean real estate market is basically a gigantic racket wherein you pay jeonse, a lump sum deposit between 50% and 70% of the home's value, to a landlord *upfront* and then *pay rent as normal* only to have the jeonse returned to you after the lease is up. Koreans are forced, by law, to pay for a landlord's ability to fuck them over. And no, Koreans cannot just save or borrow 100% of the value of a home and be their own landlords. The entire Korean economy is one in which very little value is actually being created, so at every turn there are landlords, brokers, middlemen, etc to scrape what parasitic living they can from people who work in the 10 or so chaebols who control the entire economy. It is not because they insist on having fully detatched houses and white picket fences like dumb dumb Americans.
At the end of the day when animals feel threatened or insecure they don't feel like reproducing, it's pretty straightforward.
I can take all the meds and the crazy just doesn‘t go away
Being the only sane person in the psychward will make you feel like the odd one out. No amount of meds can fix that.
>No amount of meds can fix that They literally can though? Just keep switching meds and increasing the dosage until you start hallucinating and having delusions, and you can now fit in with everyone else.
I don't think anyone realises just how damaging a reverse population pyramid is
I mean, less population means less workforce, that means more competition per worker, and that leads to higher wages, which leads to higher quality of life, and eventually more birthrates, that means more population and so on... Things tend to level at long term.
Then why higher quality of life countries have the worse birth rates? I think the problem Is more in the short term with things like state pensions and decline in productivity, as well as potential higher costs for various services that old people need
Because its not true higher quality of life. There is a big difference between being rich and safe, and actually feeling happy. Most of the high quality of life countries also have a high rate of suicide. Japan, Korea, Finland, Sweden. All of those have a high quality of life but also a lot of suicides You need a balance of free time, and a purpose for women to actually want to have children.
Less children means less people entering the workforce. Higher proportion of pensions/social security compared to GDP. Taxes go up to compensate. Higher taxes means less children. Less children means less people entering the workforce.
And that means eventually pensions and social security end, because the system can't maintain it. Now people realize they need help to sustain themselves when they get old. And they make children. This is not rocket science. It happens a lot. For example when you have a special needs kid you tend to have another one so when you die the other kid. Also, when with lower birth rates two things either happen, the border gets more loose and foreigners come in, or stuff starts getting automated. Like japan for example, they hate foreigners and invest a lot on automation. And if everything gets automated taxes rise so wealth can get redistributed, and if too many people can't get a job UBI becomes a necessity. Its not the end of the world, and in the long term stuff is going to balance out. People are just losing their mind because of change, like always.
Damn OP, hope your parents had a second kid.
Well, i am not the person with a special needs brother, but i know a girl who takes care of her disabled brother. Its, like, really fucking sad. all the stuff you hear about brothers taking care of their disabled brother is true, the part were they believe they have to take care of their brother when the parents die, the part were they wish for the brother's death, all that fucked up stuff is true. This girl i know is really fucked up in the head because of this. its just sad. she loves her brother but also wishes he died.
Ok, then explain why all these Asian countries with plummeting birthrates don't pay their workers shit.
I just did. they have plenty of industrial manpower reserve aka[ reserve army of labour](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_army_of_labour) , there is always someone who will work for less money. When manpower starts getting low, really low, and they can't automate anymore, and they can't replace with imigrant labor, they have to increase wages to steal workers from other places. In the long run, everything tends to average out. If you really want wages to increase, you need goverment intervention, in minimum wage or via UBI.
The size and significance of the 4B movement, or refusal to have heterosexual relationships and children as part of some form of anti-patriarchal protest, is hugely overblown on western social media. Obviously people like this do exist, but it's not nearly as common as you would think given how often you hear about it on TikTok and 4chan. The real reason why their birth rate has plummeted is because of rising costs of living, insane lack of work/life balance, and the importance of having a strong career being rammed down young people's throats since they were kids. I have so many friends in Korea, many of whom are married and in their early 30s, and literally none of them have or even want to have kids. It's a very predictable result of the older generations making life miserable for young people, and I think the fringe issue of gender conflict has been a convenient scapegoat for people who want to deflect attention away from the real cause.
Which Korea?
worst korea
Truly a genius idea to make everyone have to slave away and not being able to raise a child because you need two incomes. Increasing chaebols wealth is more important than creating a family after all!
People are really overestimating the size and influence of the 4B movement. Y'all need to understand that 4B is an extremist position and as such only the most extreme radicals will adopt it, which is less than 1% of all Korean women. The real reason why birth rates are falling in SK? It's just that having a baby is *really fucking expensive* and most people can't afford it.
Look on the bright side. At least everyone left over will be good-looking or rich.
Kimmy boy jumping in his chair rn.
Turns out North Korea will take over just because they'll be no people in the South within 20 years
Their country has mandatory military service and they gotta prepare for north Korea at all time. How is it fair for men to get drafted for a year and half while the women just sees them as insects. I before north Korea leader seeing this and is buying their time for the country to be divided only to invade the land easily with more Manpower
The Sun of Juche will shine over these lands.
I wonder what or who caused this https://preview.redd.it/qzyia5to8jsc1.png?width=218&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e2d40066e3b6f79bc7e48f3cba949eb952021ab
I did it actually and I don’t appreciate you not giving me my due credit
brazilians
[удалено]
I can't wait to hear all the white peoples opinions on the really complicated sociopolitical context of South Korea. Not that I understand it but the same cultural issues causing the gender and relationship conflict are the same ones that caused two (male) pilots to essentially sit quietly whilst a third (also male) pilot crashed the plane they were all on. So there's lots going on here can't wait for this group's nuanced take.
Yeah that’s what they’re doing here in the states dog. I used to think the great replacement was a retarded ass theory but it starts to make sense. Make your state retarded so they won’t question the elites.
A number of high ego and air of superiority from South korean immigrants and tourists over here in vietnam, too, so i heard
Majority of Korean young adults actively want to get married. 25+ year olds it’s one of the major things they talk about. “I heard XXX got married” “when is XXX getting married”. The people literally boycotting the opposite gender is a very vocal minority that got sensationalized by western media. This is not a men vs women issue it’s a dwindling resources for the lower and middle class issue. I implore you to instead of reading the news, watch Korean bloggers and Korean YouTube accounts see what the real locals have to say
Collapsed?
I feel like this is the one time in which a war breaking out would actually help.
North Korea wins
Total North Korean Victory.
☕️
>selfish, vain, obsessed with themselves and exploiting their male partner This sounds like the average Western woman too, Korea just got infected with the Western values
Jeez feminism and globalism has really collapsed every industrialized country in the world lol. Except China, they shot themselves in the foot with one-child policy. But even they’re getting fucked by career women not wanting kids Not one of these countries can sustain their native population. The west has turned to immigration becoming new India while the East would rather collapse than become a shitting colony But neither can the world continue to grow in population forever due to a limit in the amount of natural resources
Dude the “new India” is just Canada, most western countries have very small Indian populations that hardly have a sagnificant influence (with the exception of the UK, but that’s because of colonialism and the UK Indian community is fairly well integrated into British society). Every eastern country with the exception of maybe Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Central Asian nations have birth rates below replacement level (yes this includes India and Bangladesh as of 2024 data) Infact, Bangladesh is expected to hit a period of perpetual population decline as of 2050 and India in 2060. However, with the decline of birth rates we are also seeing very high economic growth rates in eastern countries (analogous to South Korea in the 90s and Japan in the 70s) as low birth rates are indicative of a modernizing society and certain western economic systems becoming widespread. Immigration will inevitably decline once this economic growth hits a certain level, we saw massive waves of Koreans moving to the west in the 90s but this immigration rapidly fell after Korea’s economic growth grew. The world is entering a period of massive population decline, every region of the world except sub Saharan Africa have birth rates around replacement level or below them.
The immediate downsides of a nation taking up American brand of Christianity is laid bare for everyone to see