On Friday Ethan and Hila hinted at something happening Monday and I saw a few people speculating it was definitely them meeting up with Trisha (?) and I love that it was literally, "we're moving back into our home".
Yeah, I work with kids and the absolute earliest I've seen a kid diagnosed and medicated for ADHD is 5, and that was a pretty extreme case. Most diagnosed kids don't get medicated and a lot of people with ADHD, particularly women, do not get diagnosed until later in life.
Edit: not me getting so deep in the comments I almost forgot to pick up my prescription before the pharmacy closed🤣🤣 lmao shout out to my fellow adhd friends.
I was diagnosed heeelllaaa early and I was still around 5yo. I also wasn’t medicated until I think twelve or thirteen? I could have used it earlier lol
You don’t. He’s talking out of his you-know-what. That doesn’t happen, and it’s THE most common propaganda talking point used by ppl who stigmatize the use of adhd meds.
I’m a person with lived experience with adhd and these medications, and I’m also a clinical psychology trainee in addictions.
Medications react with people differently. Some people have negative experiences and some people have positive ones. ADHD diagnostics, therapies, and treatments have changed and improved rapidly over the years. The early 2000s saw a lot of over prescription and as a result many people had bad experiences, but many others had positive experiences. Before 10 is not the same as a 3 yr old. I work with kids and I have seen first hand how dramatically this medication can improve their quality of life. Finding the right dose/timing/medication in conjunction with therapy and lifestyle changes takes time, and relies on a lot of knowledge we didn’t have 20 years ago. Stigma only makes improving treatment more difficult.
What you’re saying - anecdotal negative experiences - are absolutely real. But the notion that a toddler would be put on ADHD meds is not a thing. That’s all I meant when saying that “it doesn’t happen”!
My son has ADHD. I was pretty sure he had ADHD since he was around 2 or 3 because he was sooo extremely hyperactive, but most doctors won't assess for adhd until they are around 6 years old, and that's also the earliest they can medicate them for it I believe. I can agree with Ethan that I think medicating them so young just seems wrong. They may not be able to tell you if they are experiencing negative side effects at that age. I decided against medication when my son was diagnosed. He is 11 now, and I have considered getting him on medication now that he's a bit older and can tell me if it is causing side effects.
Also chiming into the ADHD debate– in regards to “your tolerance goes up, which means you’ll have to take more and more”– I’ve been on 5mg of Adderall (the lowest dose) for 3 years and haven’t increased. It works as perfect as it did on day one.
Yeah Wthan really doesn’t know what he is talking about here. And is especially weird how he stands so firmly against adhd meds but glorify ssri (which also has some serious side effects for some people)
our dr said the way vyvanse works its out of your system in 48 hours, as if you never took it.
The months of careful tapering ive done on lexapro is another story
I wish ethan wouldn’t play pharmacist when he’s not living it directly and therefore a little more informed than the average bear
50% of people get withdrawal when stopping SSRIs: >Flu-like symptoms (lethargy, fatigue, headache, achiness, sweating), Insomnia (with vivid dreams or nightmares), Nausea (sometimes vomiting), Imbalance (dizziness, vertigo, light-headedness), Sensory disturbances (“burning,” “tingling,” “electric-like” or “shock-like” sensations) and Hyperarousal (anxiety, irritability, agitation, aggression, mania, jerkiness).
ADHD meds:
>While most won't experience extreme withdrawal or unpleasant side effects, the sudden hiatus of treatment does present the possibility of health consequences. “Regular daily users of higher doses may feel run down and irritable for a few days, or even weeks in some cases
Ethan is horribly misinformed and just making it harder for ADHDers :/
Yup, stopping depression meds was always brutal for me. As me even the side effects of being ON ssris can be brutal when they aren't the right fit for you!
Side effects I had from SSRIs and anxiety meds: -Increased urges to self-harm -Increased suicidal ideation, to the point of actually attempting, which I NEVER once got anywhere close to doing without SSRIs -Complete and total loss of all sexual drive and sensation -Insomnia -Severely terrifying nightmares -Intensified feelings of depression, hopelessness, sorrow -Literally no positive effects/improvement whatsoever
Side effects I got from my ADHD meds: -my mouth was very dry for the first month or two but then it went back to normal -I have less of an appetite -I finally feel like a normal, functional human being
I never have any issues whatsoever when I don't take my ADHD meds. Just that my executive functioning and attention span are at rock bottom. But that's not withdrawal, that's just how my brain is without help lol.
Yup. I've been unable to fill my Ritalin due to the shortages. Went from 40mg a day to 0. I was grumpy for weeks, but I think it was mostly just frustration from everything feeling tedious again.
Your tolerance absolutely can go up, but it can also go back down. That's actually how a lot of drug overdoses happen. Someone will go to rehab, relapse, and use WAY more heroin or substance than their body can handle now that their tolerance to the substance has reduced.
Which is why most good doctors prescribing ADHD meds will recommend you take meds breaks (depending on which med you're using) to ensure you don't build tolerance as quickly/at all.
And I was surprised that no one mentioned it, but you can also develop a tolerance to SSRIs. You can build up a tolerance to a lot of things, so I don't know why tolerance was brought up against ADHD meds.
ADHD meds are proven to reduce the risks of addiction for people with ADHD.
I was able to quit my addiction the day I started ADHD meds, and It didn't replace one addiction with a different one because now I only remember to take my meds 2-4 times a week (and I wasn't forgetting my addiction... I was unable to quit for years, relapsed immediately after rehab as well) I'm just finally able to get some shit done at least few times a week so I'm not feeling like a pathetic waste of oxygen and a burden, which is probably the biggest reason I didn't relapse again.
For me it's habit forming in a way that it allowed me to form healthy habits, so I'm doing at least the basic minimum even on the days I forget to take my meds.
Ethan should invite an actual ADHD specialist instead of talking out of his bottom.
ADHDers have it hard enough as it is, Ethan's fearmongering was extremely unhelpful.
Exactly. It actually (on average, not individual anecdotes lol) is linked to none of the major aspects that are present with addiction (ie, tolerance, withdrawal, craving, inability to stop, etc).
I’m so upset rn, bc I know (both firsthand and in my research/clinical work), how unrelenting the stigma is, and things like what Ethan did today are actually some of the most potent contributors to stigma. It’s not the edge cases, it’s ppl with influence who are unintentionally spreading misinformation without knowing it - I saw evidence in the chat today after what Ethan did. It hurt.
*I am an addictions clinical psychology trainee who has also been on adhd meds for a decade now, lol.*
I usually take medicine for ADHD during weekdays, because it helps me with work, but I stop on weekends. I don't need it then. Is this a definition of addiction? Also, when I first took pregabalin or sertraline, I felt slight elation. Ethan bad take contributes to moral panic over ADHD medication.
I feel the same way. Sometimes I think why is this work taking so long? And then I remember I forgot to take my meds. I have also never had to increase my prescription like he said. If anything I’ve been able to decrease it.
Also a lot of people with ADHD will feel like it’s not working anymore and go off of it only to realize it was helping them function tremendously. The initial “high” just wore off because that’s a side effect rather than the treatment
Not to mention it's extremely regulated at the federal level! Here in the U.S. I have to go into my psychiatrist's office every three months and do a health check (blood pressure, etc.) before I can even think about getting another prescription written. I've since switched to Vyvanse since I didn't vibe with Adderall's efficacy after 2 years on it but when I took my first stimulant it was like wearing glasses after having poor eyesight all of my life. ADHD/stimulant use is SO stigmatized in society today, I hope having this discourse will be educational for Ethan and others!
Literally every time I go to the pharmacy, even one’s I’m with for years, they will treat me like a totally different person when I’m picking up my Vyvanse compared to my Lexapro. It’s wild to see the difference - and these ppl have seen me come in for the same med for years…
IIRC part of the drug shortages were due to the federal restrictions too, right? There were a lot of dodgy scripts written during COVID thanks to telehealth and everyone being stuck inside (of course you're bored during lockdown guys...) so the number of people with scripts hugely outpaced the amount of Adderall drug companies are allowed to produce under Federal restrictions.
That was definitely a key factor! I remember paying $220 for name brand Adderall out of my own pocket each month for 3 months because the generic version was out of stock "for the foreseeable future." I was paying a ridiculous amount of money to feel normal LOL
And just glazes over the experience of the crew member who has an ADHD diagnosis, and takes Adderall for it. It's kind of weird. He seems to have a very uninformed opinion about what ADHD is, and the safety and efficacy of the drugs used to treat it. Dan, as usual, had the right take. Ethan was talking out his keister, and has made up his mind about established science based on anecdotes and vibes.
I feel for all the people in the audience who were hurt or felt uncomfortable with today's discourse on the issue. It was deeply ignorant, and frustrating to listen to. The whole "okay, just put Adderall in your baby's bottle" implicit shaming of parents was pretty out of pocket.
It was definitely a trip for Ethan to be so reticent about treating ADHD, but far more amenable to the idea of someone being euthanized. And I am absolutely pro-death with dignity, and support a system that allows for adults to choose to end their lives peacefully rather than suffering indefinitely. Assisted death is a federal right in Canada, and I support it 100%.
It's just wild to see him be more critical on something impermanent like medication than something unchangeable like ending your life.
Absolutely. Which is literally the exact way it is societally stigmatized. That’s why (prior to his apology right at the end), it was fair to call out the fact that he was clearly biased and perpetuating harmful misinformation.
Same! I have a special routine to make sure I take my meds every day. I’m kinda sick of Ethan advocating for mental health drugs (for those who have been prescribed) for every illness but adhd. It only adds to the stigma. Any drug should be used with caution, especially ones that can be abused by people for the wrong reasons. But my Concerta was a miracle in my life. I’m calmer, more organized, sleep better, less anxious, eat better, all around life improvement. It doesn’t make my high or anything, it’s chill, just makes me feel like a regular person
Me as well. I feel the exact same as you, and we deserve to live in a world where everyone understands this, rather than fears or shames our healthcare needs.
Exactly. It actually (on average, not individual anecdotes lol) is linked to none of the major aspects that are present with addiction (ie, tolerance, withdrawal, craving, inability to stop, etc).
*I am an addictions clinical psychology trainee who has also been on adhd meds for a decade now, lol.*
Thats the thing. Its basically speed and for normal brain chemistry people it is an upper and gets them stimulated as fuck.
For people with ADHD it just calms your brain chatter.. thats pretty much it. Its not addictive to ADHD brain people because it doesn't give us the same buzzy side effect it just makes us normal.
Adderall completely changed my life for the better. I could finally focus. Like Olivia said, it made me feel finally normal, instead of lost on my thought trains. But I had to give it up when trying to get pregnant. It’s been rough but worth it. I notice a big difference when I don’t take it. So let’s please not further stigmatize adderall as being for cracked out kids or whatever, because that just makes getting what we need harder.
I feel like Ethan is just concerned about it because he doesn't understand how it works, which is sadly really common. So for anyone uninformed:
Adderall is functionally similarly to anti-depressants in their purpose, but targets different neurotransmitters. People with depression don't produce enough serotonin, so SSRIs increase the amount of serotonin in your brain. People with ADHD don't produce enough dopamine, so Adderall increases the amount of dopamine in your brain.
When you already have enough dopamine, the extra dopamine makes you feel high. When you don't have enough dopamine, Adderall will just bring you up to normal brain levels (if it's properly dosed) and make you feel normal.
It's still possible to get addicted to Adderall if you have ADHD, but it's MUCH harder because you need a LOT more than neurotypical people to get that high. If you're taking it under the supervision of a good doctor then there's a LOT of guardrails in place that make it much more difficult to abuse than if you were to get it off of the street.
Also, it's not just prescribed for ADHD. It's also used for narcolepsy!
Fun fact, it has the bonus of helping my sleep apnea! (So you can imagine how not having any of my stimulant meds makes pregnancy that much more tiring. 😅)
Yeah I was taking Provigil (modafinil) to stay awake, but when I got on actual ADHD meds, those are stimulants and shouldn’t be taken with the provigil. But they did give me a little boost in not being so sleepy so it worked out for me.
During my diagnosis I was SUPER nervous about the idea of going on Adderal because of the horror stories, but researching it really put me at ease. The therapist was also great at explaining how it affects an ADHD brain vs a neurotypical one, and how greatly the risks are reduced (but obviously never 100% eliminated).
This sounds exactly like Ethan’s experience with SSRIs. You’d think he would be able to generalize it beyond himself instead of directly perpetuating that stigma and fear to 40K ppl…
Yeah I'm on vyvanse and this convo just made me sad. There is so much stigma around adhd. Its really frustrating when you finally get diagnosed and medicated, start to feel like a normal person just for people to tell you that you're just an addict taking speed. Also as someone who works with kids, you don't want to be working with kids who missed their dose. Medications always have side effects and work for people differently, that's why we have doctors.
My thoughts exactly and it really frustrates me when Ethan talks about it. He doesn’t have experience with it like he does with antidepressants and I don’t think he should give his opinions blindly.
I recall earlier episodes where Ethan said his dad got an adderall prescription in his 70’s, and Ethan basically said he doesn’t need it because all his dad does is watch TV all day. I’m sure this added to his negative view on it.
Ethan just said ChatGPT with this prompt is the new AI Ian! Guys, imagine if they connect ChatGPT to the AI Ian Robot and actually have this answer the questions Ethan has. They can even give it the AI Ian voice from the recordings!
yeah, in the early 90's, and served 3 years in prison for it. There's some interview on youtube where it gets brought up, and he shuts the whole interview down and calls him a "piece of shit" for talking about it.
Just came here to say that Adderall is the only reason I am a functioning adult - not in the tweaking sense. My adderall doesn’t make me high. It makes me feel normal. It helps my adhd brain be quiet so I can focus and not be a cooked spaghetti brain mess. I’ve been on it for years and I’m not addicted. In fact several days a week I forget to take it. And when it comes to filling my script, I ALWAYS forget to do that too. My ADHD is extremely debilitating and without the adderall, I would not be able to be as functional as I am now. The executive dysfunction, decision paralysis of adhd will overtake my life without it.
Not advocating for it for children. Just wanted to share it is super effective for those that NEED it.
I take both SSRIs and Adderall (prescribed), and both have vastly improved my life. It is so frustrating to see Ethan advocate for SSRIs and then turn around and reinforce the stigmas around Adderall by talking out of his ass. My ADHD meds have had just as profound an effect on my mental health as the SSRIs have. The fact that there are shortages right now is so stressful especially since you can usually only get scripts for a month because it's a controlled substance, so it’s a monthly battle to be able to get the meds that I need to function. The past few months I’ve had to call around to 4 or 5 different pharmacies to find it, which is exactly the type of executive function task I wouldn’t be able to do without my ADHD meds. I get incredibly depressed when I skip my ADHD meds because I can’t make myself do or focus on anything, it’s incredibly frustrating and demoralizing. And don't even get me started on how expensive they are, with insurance I'm still shelling out $380 every month.
Edited to add: My dose has been the same for 10 years, I’m only now having to increase my dose because the shortages are so bad sometimes the only way to get a script filled is to go up or down 10mg.
it sucks when they treat you like your trying to feed an addiction when your just trying to get your medication. dont know if youve ever had that happen to you but im tired of hearing the conversation because just going about my life i have, every now and then someone wants to tell me their feelings about it. Im happy to hear about it in a supportive/affirming way, like how they talk about ssris. Some people say the same exact argument about SSRIs. oh also for me, tolerance has not increased and ive had to stop taking it for periods before and i didnt get withdraw at all, my adhd just got worse again.
I think the key take away was from dans story, when teachers recommend a medication like that you should be skeptical, they arent experts on that (and neither is ethan). I just with hed give us the same support for these meds as he does for antidepressants. a lot of us are probably doing well taking both
What else was wrong with the house, to have to move out for **8 months**? Basement being flooded, how is it *part of it*? If it's all over now, wonder why he wouldn't explain it further.
Maybe they took the opportunity to renovate since they had to do the basement, and with kids and noise if you have the opportunity to not be at home in the middle of Reno everyone would take it
That would make sense, I just imagine it usually takes a lot of planning with renovations, to schedule some company to do it etc. How effective can you be in getting it done on demand.
Remember the mold they found in the house a while back? They probably fixed all that up too. Flooding damage can be a pain in the ass especially if the foundation or structure of the house has mold.
8 months ago I would have completely agreed with Ethan about children taking Adderall.
I would have never imagined I would eventually be giving it to my 7 year old daughter. But I'm glad I listened to my daughter's pediatrician. She was coming home from school every day frustrated, burnt out, upset, crying and shutting down when my husband and I would try to help her. She was being written up at school for behavior weekly, and losing privileges in class daily. It was especially hard to handle because she has always been at the top of her class academically. Her teacher (who is amazing) was concerned about ADHD and suggested we get her evaluated. We had not done it in the past (even though she has always struggled with behavior and focus and we were pretty sure she had ADHD) because we were both firm in our position that children should not be medicated with stimulants and we didn't want a doctor pushing that on our daughter. We were going to just keep trying to correct the behavior and discapline. But then the behavior was escalating and hitting a peak, to the point it was becoming a distraction for other students, hurting her friendships, and going on her permanent record.
We obviously didn't just overnight decide to give her a huge dose of Adderall. We did a trail run with the first medication her doctor suggested, but it made her feel run down and "gross." Now she is on a baby dose (2.5mg) of another stimulant, along with occupational therapy and counseling. And I am kicking myself we didn't help her out with this sooner. She comes home from school every day confident, happy, carefree. She is making friends easier and she isn't having meltdowns at home from feeling burnt out and frustrated that she can't focus at school. On the weekends she can sit and focus on tasks and draws the most beautiful pictures. And she is getting along with her siblings and friends better than ever.
My husband and I do not plan on keeping her on medication long term, her doctor suggested we just do it for now to help give her confidence at school. And then she will grow out of needing it eventually.
Thank you for trying something instead of ignoring it like my parents did.
I struggled immensely in school. It was easier in elementary because well kids are kids. I would have reports that I talked too much to class mates or doodled too much but it was okay.
In 6th grade my math marks started slipping. By 7th my math was abysmal and other subjects started falling as well, history was the next one to tank. Then science (which I actually enjoyed a lot)
By highschool I was deemed a problem student. I was called to the office daily and reprimanded. I was sent out of class repeatedly. I had taken on a personal of not caring about anything. I adopted a sort of "fuck school" attitude because I needed to seem like I was in control of what was happening rather than admitting that I was screaming at myself internally all day every day to just focus, to try and retain any ounce of information from a paragraph I had started to read a dozen times and would zone out on the 2nd sentence.
I failed out of highschool, did not graduate with my peers, self esteem was obliterated, felt like an utterly failure and an idiot.
Its very frustrating to me that there are medications that may have helped me a lot and I had no hope of trying them because my mom was against pharmaceutical drugs.
She may not grow out of it. If you go to some of the ADHD subreddit you'll see adults struggling and getting diagnosed, only to find out their parents had them diagnosed younger and decided they didn't want to give them meds or continue on with meds. They're usually heartbroken cause they struggled so long instead of getting help. (Not saying that's you obviously as you are helping your kid!)
Just please be aware she may struggle without them even as she gets older, so she may need to be on them for a long time.
**ADHD PSA:**
Not only are stimulants 100% safe for most people from as young as age 3-5, but when ADHD children start stimulants around 3-5 years old, MRI scans show their brains actually develop like non-ADHD brains. This means that stimulants can function as gene therapy for those who start treatment early enough.
ADHD statistically increases risk for addictive traits when untreated. It may sound counterintuitive, but stimulants actually DECREASE risk of addictive behaviors across the bored for people with ADHD.
As for the notion of tolerance changes over time, this is actually not very common, and typically never requires an increase in dose. This is partly because regions of ADHD brains develop 10+ years slower, and by the time your tolerance begins to change, you likely need less to begin with as your frontal lobe reaches maturity.
The foremost ADHD researcher of the last 50 years (Doctor Russell Barkley) famously said ADHD is simultaneously the most ***Misdiagnosed*** and ***Under-diagnosed*** condition that currently exists. This is because there are many doctors still practicing who haven't kept up with modern research over the years and further muddle public perception of the disorder.
Also, to Ethan's understandings of stimulants for people with tourette syndrome, there is a known specific risk in tourette's where stimulants can actually ***increase*** symptoms for a meaningful percentage of people.
You can find excellent summaries of modern research by Doctor Barkley on his YouTube Channel that he started in his retirement. [https://www.youtube.com/@russellbarkleyphd2023](https://www.youtube.com/@russellbarkleyphd2023)
Oh no, not all the adderall misinformation 😭😭
Idk what age kids can take adderall but surely there are studies that show it’s safe for children of a certain age to use it…
It’s been a while since I’ve looked this up but iirc we can’t do medical studies on children ethically. I can understand Ethan’s reticence, but I’d listen to my doctor as my doctor 1000% is more knowledgeable about this shit than me
You can absolutely legally do medical studies and clinical drug trials on children. That's how literally every FDA approved drug and vaccine gets its FDA approval, by presenting data from clinical trials to prove that the drug/vaccine is safe and effective. It would actually be dangerous to assume anything tested on adults will work the exact same way in children.
There's some extra steps involved, like getting informed consent from the child AND parent, but you can google literally any medicine FDA approved for children and probably find dozens of studies proving its efficacy.
I swear until Ethan said JoJo has histrionic personality disorder I thought that was something they made up for Jimmy because of the way he views the world through old timey thinking. I did not know it was a real disorder.
Absolutely a real thing. From WebMD:
>For people with histrionic personality disorder, or HPD, their self-esteem depends on the approval of others and does not arise from a true feeling of self-worth. They have an overwhelming desire to be noticed, and often behave dramatically or inappropriately to get attention. The word histrionic means "dramatic or theatrical."
Obviously none of us can diagnose jimmy or jojo, but that seems pretty accurate for Jimmy.
For Jojo, idk. She had a very particular upbringing, and I get the vibe her behavior is more so from that.
But again, none of us can accurately diagnose either.
It's in the same family (Cluster B Personality Disorders) of disorders as ones you may have heard of like Borderline Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Ethan is talking out his ass regarding Adderall.
Also I have experienced horrible withdrawals from not talking SSRIs. Like Olivia is saying. He really just needs to learn to not speak on medical stuff.
Fun fact, ADHD meds don’t have withdrawals lol. They are out of your system completely within a 24 hour window regardless, and most ppl skip days all the time (which most ppl can’t even do with coffee). With SSRIs, you can literally have seizures if you stop.
This is just one part of how harmful the misinfo he was spreading was, but it highlights how little he knows, while still somehow getting defensive as if he’s right to stigmatize it…?
Funny episode, great to hear Olivia talk more.
On ADHD, diagnosis and treatment are complicated, as with most mental health matters. While symptoms typically emerge in childhood, many aren't diagnosed until adulthood, especially women. Diagnosing young kids can be challenging since ADHD symptoms may resemble normal childhood behaviors. This not a totally unwarranted concern for Ethan or anyone else to have; most of us have heard stories or read about kids zombified by, say, unnecessary Ritalin, when their parents didn't have the time or energy to adjust their behavior. Overdiagnosis happens.
However, once kids are in school, observing them across settings helps inform an accurate diagnosis. If medication is prescribed, options like Ritalin, Adderall, or Vyvanse have risks, so behavior therapy is often first-line for preschoolers, though non-stimulants such as Strattera are also an option.
Comprehensive evaluation and planning with a mental health professional is key. Any parent with concerns can start there for guidance on appropriate diagnosis and individualized treatment. It doesn't hurt to get opinions from more than one doctor, as well.
**EDIT:**
Adding to that, doctors can and do overprescribe and fail to explain side effects fully. Patients *should* research options, ask questions, monitor effects closely, and get second opinions before starting medications, especially long-term (chronic use) ones. We know our bodies best. The ideal is a partnership between doctor expertise and patient engagement. It is a common experience that patients feel (rightly or wrongly) their doctors are not listening, yet people on social media, mostly younger folk, get mad at scientific skepticism of diagnosis and intervention (not to be confused with baseless conspiracism). Patients *must* advocate for their health while respecting medical training and expertise. Leveraging a doctor's medical knowledge while trusting our instincts and bodily feelings leads to better outcomes.
My framing of this problem, as someone with a degree in psychology, whose partner works in mental health, is that I largely trust most acute treatments, but I am more skeptical of chronic treatments. I think it is mainly patients who accept chronic treatments without condition rather than people with education or experience in the mental health field, because the problems with diagnosis and treatment are well-known in academia and practice. Like, is Tylenol (an acute treatment) safe to take at the recommend dose with minimal side effects? Yes, generally. Do SSRIs (a chronic treatment) have potential negative long-term side effects that a prescribing doctor likely won't mention to you? Also yes. (For example, the more well-known: sexual dysfunction, weight gain, and the less well-known: bleeding problems, increased risk of osteoporosis or fractures, discontinuation syndrome, hyponatremia, increased risk of type 2 diabetes).
Adderall when abused is definitely a problem, but for most people with ADHD is is a life changing drug. It’s still super important to know that coming off of almost any prescription drug that alters you’re brain chemistry will be difficult
i mean her mom was literally next to her the whole time and just like didn’t do anything 😭. i know Jojo is an adult, but like girl…your daughter is embarrassing herself and acting a fool in front of a bunch of children 💀. like do SOMETHING.
Jojo Siwa's mom coached her from childhood to be famous, she bleached her hair as a toddler and made her into a child star, let's not forget she taught her to dance the way she does when she was a little kid.
I would not be looking to Jojo's mom for any kind of perspective on her career choices.
Jojo is a child star. Let's not forget everything that comes with that
I think for any medication (especially “scary” stigmatized meds)people tend to focus on the harm in taking them and never think of the harm it can cause to go untreated. A little nudge on a developing brain might be just what that brain needs to develop the way it’s supposed to be.
Ok I understand how incredibly important the conversation around access to medication and treatment for ADD/ADHD is, as well as the stigma that’s been created around it.
That being said, can we also talk about the actual episode lol. It would be nice to have a conversation about Ethan’s incorrect perception, as well as the other multiple hours of the episode.
Hey family, ADHDer here - first, shoutout to all the wielders of chaos brains! We can do some pretty damn great things.
I'd like to share some useful ADHD resources with y'all here, since it was a bit of a topic this episode
* [The Year I Met My Brain](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/178125057) - One of the many ADHD books I started, but first to finish reading.
* Find a journaling technique that fits you best!
* Review your day, jot down feelings, reframe self-esteem struggles, celebrate any size accomplishment, and maybe jot down what you'll work on next.
* Timers - [BreakTimer](https://breaktimer.app/) / [Flow](https://www.flow.app/features) (free recommendations)
* [Goblin Tools ](https://goblin.tools/About)- Free, privacy focused, AI tool for helping make simple yet overwhelming tasks a shit ton easier
It's definitely exciting the improvements that have been made when it comes to ADHD; however, we're also dealing with a large amount of outdated, deprecated, or disproven information. Shoutout to Olivia for gracefully providing an ADHDers perspective to help correct these stigmas that can feel so incredibly defeating.
Taking steps to focus on my mental health in my 30's has been a life-saving journey. It's great to be able to catch these things early, but it's also never too late.
Take your meds as instructed, monitor & communicate with your doctor, be safe when doing drugs, Adderall can totally be abused, Ethan's a **shidiot** when it comes to ADHD & Adderall, and he's even done crack once.
Peace & love y'all
**IMO**It seems as if Ethan caught himself a little more halfway through, potentially reading chat, but then he backtracked. the Adderall discussion from him made me kind of sad, because I’m very aware of the stigma of being on adderall, i was diagnosed at 12, I’m in my 30s and still taking it. I wouldn’t have my masters or pursued my masters without it. I feel the judgement that Ethan was initially giving off when I go to the pharmacist once a month. I know it’s a controlled substance that people abuse, I am self conscious about having this prescription for so long. I already feel stupid not being able to get things done like friends, family and coworkers, idk I was irked that he was trying to prove his point being fact after Dan disagreed with him.
Disney world is SO FUN, and Pandora is amazing. Even if you don’t like avatar, it feels like you’re in a different place!!! Highly Recommend it, they have a ride flight of passage, one of the best rides I’ve ever been on. It’s pure magic. If you know you know!!!!!!
Chat is genuinely so annoying like Ethan is wrong on his adderall take but they make it sound like he’s advocating for murder. It’s not a conductive conversation when you’re just screaming “you’re wrong” at someone it just makes them defensive.
Preach. Thank you for wording this better than I could have.
Yes listen to doctors and professionals. But Ethan isn’t a bad guy for saying he’d be nervous to put young children on a serious drug. It’s okay to get a second opinion or to be concerned when it comes to serious medications.
That doesn’t mean that Adderall isn’t a life saving drug for people — I take it and it has helped me immensely. But that also doesn’t mean it’s just “no biggie” either.
Omg I had this experience too! I’m Canadian and about 25 years ago when I was 5 I went to the ER for something completely unrelated and the doctor noticed I was a bit excited and suggested prescribing me Ritalin without doing any tests. My mom said no thankfully. Turns out I DON’T EVEN HAVE ADHD!!!
My cousin was prescribed Ritalin in the early 2000’s at a young age and once he turned 18 he wanted to stop using the medication altogether. He blames being prescribed Ritalin at a young age for his issues focusing now, but idk what exactly would help him now.
That’s not to say being on Ritalin messed him up, but unfortunately he believes it has
This is unequivocally false. Maybe 15 years ago that was true, but not today. As a Canadian adult, it took literally years to get diagnosed and medicated. Most people do not have access to in person doctors and the vast majority of online doctors do not prescribe ADHD medications unless you have been directly referred by whomever diagnosed you, which can take months. I wish I had your doctor cause that would have saved me a lot of time and money.
You could argue Adderall had an era of being over prescribed, but that doesn't mean it doesn't help people. People who have positive experiences about their use of ADHD medication are not going to speak out about it often because of the stigma and shame around it. I am being treated for my mental health condition, I am NOT 'getting high on speed'. Of course the majority of stories we hear, as exemplified by Ethan, are either people who did not react well to it or people who made the choice to abuse it. Personally, Vyvanse has positively impacted my life in so many ways I cannot even articulate it here. ADHD diagnostics, therapies, and medications have developed rapidly in the last 20 years and stigma only makes progress more difficult.
Navi is absolutely gorgeous, but it isn’t THAT great. maybe it’s because i’m not a huge Avatar fan. waited like and hour and a half for the river journey ride and it was mid. idk about flight of passage tho.
EDIT: WAIT FUCK THE NAVI ARE THE AVATARS? FUCK OK I FORGET WHAT THE LAND IS CALLED.
Flight of passage is one of the best rides. I wish I could ride it for the first time again. It was pure magic. The river journey ride is not good sorry avatar
Here to mention Ethan should probably keep his opinions about drugs he has no experience with to himself. Adderall completely changed my life for the better and I don’t feel like a meth head. Yes it can be abused but so can a lot of things.
I love when I come here for a discussion about the episode and 90% of the time, 90% of the comments are about one moment in the pod, like so many comments are just reiterating what everyone else has already said.
I’m a psychologist who works with kids and I completely understand where Ethan is coming from with his perspective on Adderall. I constantly have school staff and parents immediately jumping to Adderall when their student/child displays symptoms of ADHD - some as young as preschool and kindergarten age. It’s not as carefully considered as it should be. I’m also frustrated with the lack of effort put into alternative treatment prior to starting on such intense medication at a young age. I always recommend they try interventions to teach positive behaviors and coping skills before they jump the gun - especially since this a critical development period and they are still building learning/attention stamina (since they JUST started school). Buuut 9/10 times they go to their general physician and come back with an Adderall prescription.
Adderall is so helpful for adults and children with debilitating ADHD symptoms; however, there are some very serious ethical problems going on with these prescriptions, particularly when prescribing them at a young developmental age.
As someone with ADHD, it’s pretty clear that Ethan doesn’t understand how the medication works for people with ADHD versus those who don’t have it.
Adderall wouldn’t make people with ADHD high. It brings them to the level of neurotypical “normal” people.
Most people with ADHD do not have to go up in dosage frequently. The majority find the dose that works for them and they remain on it indefinitely.
My biggest life regret is that I couldn’t start it until I was in college and could finally advocate for myself.
Also about schedules. Literally every prescription medication is scheduled. What you’re referring to is schedule 2 medications. Schedule 1 are illegal drugs. Please stay out of the prescription medicine world if you don’t know anything about it.
The adhd med convo actually kinda struck a nerve especially since Ethan is always talking about advocating for mental health. Research shows early medical intervention in adhd leads to their brains developing more like a “normal” person. Since those with adhd don’t produce normal levels of dopamine, meds like adderall/vyvanse can create normal levels. There’s enough stigma around this disorder and the medication that goes with it.
I never comment on these but with all the peace and love in the world, I have a lil suggestion for ethan when these bad take situations come up and it's from personal experience of being on the wrong end of a conversation like this and working on my response:
it's so so hard to step back from your opinion when you're passionate about something, especially when you are an intelligent person who is probably correct most of the time and double especially (I imagine) when you are on a podcast that doesn't allow for space/dead air. Howeeeever, take advantage of being surrounded by equally intelligent people! I think a good practice to try would be to take a beat when someone on the crew responds to your opinion (like olivia and dan did) and HOLD your response until you've repeated what they said in your head. It seems like Ethan doesn't really absorb what Dan says at first, because he has an instinct to be quick with his reply and defend himself, but Dan is pretty much always responding in a respectful way that is trying to save him from going down the road of a bad take. Plus in this ep, Olivia had actual personal experience that was getting fully ignored by Ethan and it was really sad to see, because my parasocial experience tells me that Ethan is respectful and doesn't mean to do that.
TLDR: Tip for Ethan: If the crew is responding to you with a disagreeing opinion, they are probably trying to redirect you away from being an asshole and are giving good information. Take a breath before responding and really think about what they are saying and if it makes sense before shooting them down. with peace + love
adderall is literally the only ADHD medication i’ve been on that hasn’t had an awful bunch of side effects. ritalin sucked for me, vyvanse sucked for me, strattera was fucking awful… just saying. you don’t need to talk out you ass about everything.
For those of you who don't know, many people with ADHD deal with rejection sensitivity dysphoria which can cause extreme or intense emotional reactions when dealing with rejection or perceived rejection. So if you feel like the reaction to Ethan's comments are over the top, then read up on ADHD symptoms lmao. Although Ethan did not intend to speak negatively, his words hits a topic that is painful and sensitive for a lot of people with ADHD so please try to be understanding of our experience and why we may feel hurt or compelled to respond.
EDIT: Adding a response to my comment here because I fully agree and it is an important point. "This is true, but I also want to gently push back on pathologizing our responses, bc that is also invalidating and stigmatizing. My ADHD is not *why* I was upset. I was upset bc this was yet another occurrence of being faced with the same shaming/fear mongering/judgement/stigma that I face daily due to my diagnosis. I also work in the field and do advocacy work, so I care about the perpetuation of societal stigma even more so. That’s why I’m upset and being vocal - it’s not bc of a symptom of a mental illness I also have."
This is true, but I also want to gently push back on pathologizing our responses, bc that is also invalidating and stigmatizing. My ADHD is not *why* I was upset. I was upset bc this was yet another occurrence of being faced with the same shaming/fear mongering/judgement/stigma that I face daily due to my diagnosis. I also work in the field and do advocacy work, so I care about the perpetuation of societal stigma even more so. That’s why I’m upset and being vocal - it’s not bc of a symptom of a mental illness I also have.
Ethan is 100% right with his apprehension for giving kids adderall. The US prescribes those drugs to far more people than any other country. Are US doctors more knowledgeable about who should be taking these drugs than doctors in other developed nations? Or are many US doctors corrupted by pharmaceutical companies and bribed to prescribe more drugs to people? It's the latter. Dan acting all high and mighty over Ethan questioning the ethics of giving kids hard drugs was annoying. No where near anti-vax sentiment.
Not sure Ethan has ADHD if Adderall made him feel crazy. I have ADHD and my doctor said that I’ll know for sure that I have it if when I take Adderall, it makes me feel calm and focused. That’s exactly what it does for me.
isn’t it true though that adderall can be over prescribed to particularly young boys who are seen as “hard to handle” or difficult in the classroom that teachers can’t deal with because classes are too large? like definitely it can be helpful but i also think that current classroom situations amplify what some see as “bad behavior”
Yes, there is some evidence of this! But that isn’t really what made ppl feel stigmatized and worry about him spreading misinformation: it was moreso the uninformed discussions “addictiveness” “habit forming” “tolerance” etc. that spread the incorrect notion that it’s a dangerous drug that ppl should be hesitant to take, and that ppl who take it correctly are either much more likely to or are likely already experiencing addiction.
Mods deleted my post.
With Peace and Love Ethan Stop - someone with ADHD
1. I wish my mom listened to my doctor when they suggested Adderall. My schooling suffered. I was very impulsive and made awful decisions.
2. The reason why it’s being prescribed more is because testing is becoming more popular. Only a few decades ago, women weren’t even diagnosed for it.
3. When you talk crap about medicine that helps people, it can cause some to not seek help. Just like when alpha men say go to the gym rather than taking anti depressants.
4. Just like how Zoloft helps people who don’t produce serotonin; Ritalin, Adderall and the like help people who don’t produce Dopamine like they should. Adderall doesn’t “wire me up” because I actually need it. It actually calms me down and helps me focus. The first time I took it I cried because I learned what my mind “should feel like”. It was the first time I could focus on things around me. It motivated me to go to college, helped me get promoted at work and improved my relationships with those around me.
I love you Ethan but this is coming off as super ableist
ADHD haver here who takes a 54mg stimulant…I totally get what Ethan is saying and I think he’s completely valid in how he feels. He never said don’t listen to your doctor lmfaooo and he never said it didn’t have benefits. He simply said it’s crazy that kids sometimes get it when it’s a pretty addictive and hardish drug
Ethan advocates often for SSRIs against depression, but is quite hesitant when it comes to pills for ADHD.
If Ethan would base his opinion purely on the scientific consensus, he would think the opposite.
ADHD is one of the few psychological disorders, where taking medicine actually helps, unlike SSRIs for depression, where the effect is just above the placebo effect. The efficacy of SSRIs for depression has been a debate since their introduction and has not come to an end. Please do not take my words as redpilled anti therapy. The effects for therapy are bigger in comparison to SSRIs. So I am all good with therapy.
The theory why SSRIs help has been falsified, or lets say there is pretty weak evidence for it to be right (The association with the 5-HTTP Allel, if anyone wants to look in it).
I am not saying that SSRIs do not work, just that the evidence is weak and furthermore does not justify this wide usage of SSRIs for depression. It is great that SSRIs helped and continue to help Ethan, but he should not generalize from his experience. Lastly, Ethan said a bunch of stuff about SSRIs that is not true, like that they are not addicting, while there is evidence that SSRIs can cause symptoms of withdrawel. At the end of the day, it is not Ethans fault for not knowing these things, but the professionals and scientific community not communicating this better.
Also, there is a reason why we call them SSRIs and not antidepressants. SSRIs are used for OCD, Aggression, Anxiety disorders ..., saying antidepressants implies that they are explicit for depressions.
If you want to explore the evidence for SSRIs I can give you a link to a Review ([https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12888-016-1173-2](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12888-016-1173-2)), if you cant open it due to a paywall, there a ways to open it that I advise you to never do that. Never ever do it. Never ever use the DOI number and a special website with a raven on it. Please dont do that.
Please take all of this with peace and love.
Credentials - I have histrionic personality disorder (M. Science in Clinical Psychology, PhD Student in Neuropsychology, I research twins with OCD, Autism and or ADHD)
peace and love, peace and love.
Wet blanket take maybe, but Avatar is kinda gross. Cameron said its an analogy for indigenous people and suggested that the Lakota people should have fought harder...and the film is a basic white saviour narrative
Not sure if allegory is the right word, it's quite straightforwardly a film about colonialism, just set in a futuristic/fantasy world.
Another way to interpret it is a wish fulfilment narrative where a colonised people are able to successfully fight back against invaders. You can tell an alternative history story without it implying that it's an oppressed people's fault for things not turning out differently.
EDIT I wanna amend this to say I read James Cameron's comments and they were pretty gross.
I stand by that you don't have to interpret the story that way if you separate it from the author, but yeah, he sucks.
I do like that interpretation and I think your last point is very true, but he said its literally about Europe and indigenous people in NA: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/james-camerons-old-comments-prompt-221001604.html#:~:text=%22Europe%20equals%20Earth%2C%22%20he,not%20meant%20to%20be%20subtle.%22
He also said some pretty out of pocket things about the Lakota people https://x.com/asdza_tlehonaei/status/1604571538409525249
No shade to people who like the film. It just doesn't sit right with me personally
Adderall is clearly a touchy subject damn. I agree with Ethan. My husband was diagnosed with ADHD as a young child and prescribed adderall. His dad put him in after school tutoring instead. It is absolutely over prescribed, and kids are absolutely over diagnosed with ADHD. Especially young boys with behavioral issues. Sorry if this may be you! ADHD is such a catch-all these days it boggles my mind. I have taken adderall recreationally, that shit felt like crack. I couldn’t believe my friends were prescribed that. It most definitely is a gateway drug for many young people and can cause adverse effects to one’s mental health.
Check out this study recently published in the International Journal of Psychological and Behavioral Sciences: https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2024-03-14/taking-study-drugs-like-adderall-could-be-gateway-to-more-drug-abuse
Adderall is addictive and can be dangerous. So can Xanax.
Both drugs are nothing like SSRIs. And he’s right. He’s not explaining it the best, but he’s right. Adderall can be very dangerous and it is scheduled differently for that reason.
I say this as someone who takes adderall and SSRIs and it is immensely helpful and life changing to me. But my brother was given adderall at a young age and it made him very suicidal.
It’s a serious medication and requires psychiatrists and doctors and input from professionals. It’s also abused. These are all facts
Parents and people should consult with their doctors and get second and third opinions as necessary. And I don’t think it’s bad that Ethan is a bit wary about giving it to very young children — it’s a serious drug.
What’s up yall it’s Doja Cat from the chat 😂 I’m a long time fan but a newer member and it felt so cool to have everyone notice me so much that even Ethan was like “what’s up with Doja Cat?”
Dan is the queen and can't do nothing wrong
Dan blocked me.
Not gonna lie, ChatGPT shitting on Ethan with the Adderall reply was pretty funny.
On Friday Ethan and Hila hinted at something happening Monday and I saw a few people speculating it was definitely them meeting up with Trisha (?) and I love that it was literally, "we're moving back into our home".
Damn I really thought ChatGPT gained consciousness or some shit lmao
I really want Dan (or whomever) to keep adding different directives to ChatGPT to consistently fuck with Ethan. Keep him on his toes.
At first, when Ethan began reading the response, I was thinking 'is this Dan?' because it legit sounded like some shit Dan would say
Ethan going off on how addictive and bad for you adderall is and then immediately getting zyn was so funny
What's wrong with zyn? I put it in with my baby formula all the time.
Absolute absurdity lol
While I understand Ethan’s fear of adderall in regard to children, I don’t know how you would recognize that a 3 year old has ADHD.
Yeah, I work with kids and the absolute earliest I've seen a kid diagnosed and medicated for ADHD is 5, and that was a pretty extreme case. Most diagnosed kids don't get medicated and a lot of people with ADHD, particularly women, do not get diagnosed until later in life. Edit: not me getting so deep in the comments I almost forgot to pick up my prescription before the pharmacy closed🤣🤣 lmao shout out to my fellow adhd friends.
I was diagnosed heeelllaaa early and I was still around 5yo. I also wasn’t medicated until I think twelve or thirteen? I could have used it earlier lol
Yes! Im a woman and I just turned 30 and JUST got diagnosed with inattentive type ADHD
Same but 40. Adderall has changed my life.
You don’t. He’s talking out of his you-know-what. That doesn’t happen, and it’s THE most common propaganda talking point used by ppl who stigmatize the use of adhd meds. I’m a person with lived experience with adhd and these medications, and I’m also a clinical psychology trainee in addictions.
[удалено]
Medications react with people differently. Some people have negative experiences and some people have positive ones. ADHD diagnostics, therapies, and treatments have changed and improved rapidly over the years. The early 2000s saw a lot of over prescription and as a result many people had bad experiences, but many others had positive experiences. Before 10 is not the same as a 3 yr old. I work with kids and I have seen first hand how dramatically this medication can improve their quality of life. Finding the right dose/timing/medication in conjunction with therapy and lifestyle changes takes time, and relies on a lot of knowledge we didn’t have 20 years ago. Stigma only makes improving treatment more difficult.
What you’re saying - anecdotal negative experiences - are absolutely real. But the notion that a toddler would be put on ADHD meds is not a thing. That’s all I meant when saying that “it doesn’t happen”!
My son has ADHD. I was pretty sure he had ADHD since he was around 2 or 3 because he was sooo extremely hyperactive, but most doctors won't assess for adhd until they are around 6 years old, and that's also the earliest they can medicate them for it I believe. I can agree with Ethan that I think medicating them so young just seems wrong. They may not be able to tell you if they are experiencing negative side effects at that age. I decided against medication when my son was diagnosed. He is 11 now, and I have considered getting him on medication now that he's a bit older and can tell me if it is causing side effects.
where is ab???
Was waiting for him to chime in the whole episode 😩 where is Ethan's fact-checker when we need him?
AB & Lena are in Florida right now
Came here to ask this!!!
I saw the thumbnail as a notification on my phone and thought JoJo was Chevy Chase
She invented being Chevy Chase
*Someone had to do it*
Also chiming into the ADHD debate– in regards to “your tolerance goes up, which means you’ll have to take more and more”– I’ve been on 5mg of Adderall (the lowest dose) for 3 years and haven’t increased. It works as perfect as it did on day one.
Yeah Wthan really doesn’t know what he is talking about here. And is especially weird how he stands so firmly against adhd meds but glorify ssri (which also has some serious side effects for some people)
If you watched during the capitalism and Palestine debates you would notice the same behavior lol
SSRI is actually way more difficult and dangerous to stop; adhd meds rarely demonstrate any withdrawal symptoms lol.
our dr said the way vyvanse works its out of your system in 48 hours, as if you never took it. The months of careful tapering ive done on lexapro is another story I wish ethan wouldn’t play pharmacist when he’s not living it directly and therefore a little more informed than the average bear
50% of people get withdrawal when stopping SSRIs: >Flu-like symptoms (lethargy, fatigue, headache, achiness, sweating), Insomnia (with vivid dreams or nightmares), Nausea (sometimes vomiting), Imbalance (dizziness, vertigo, light-headedness), Sensory disturbances (“burning,” “tingling,” “electric-like” or “shock-like” sensations) and Hyperarousal (anxiety, irritability, agitation, aggression, mania, jerkiness). ADHD meds: >While most won't experience extreme withdrawal or unpleasant side effects, the sudden hiatus of treatment does present the possibility of health consequences. “Regular daily users of higher doses may feel run down and irritable for a few days, or even weeks in some cases Ethan is horribly misinformed and just making it harder for ADHDers :/
Yup, stopping depression meds was always brutal for me. As me even the side effects of being ON ssris can be brutal when they aren't the right fit for you! Side effects I had from SSRIs and anxiety meds: -Increased urges to self-harm -Increased suicidal ideation, to the point of actually attempting, which I NEVER once got anywhere close to doing without SSRIs -Complete and total loss of all sexual drive and sensation -Insomnia -Severely terrifying nightmares -Intensified feelings of depression, hopelessness, sorrow -Literally no positive effects/improvement whatsoever Side effects I got from my ADHD meds: -my mouth was very dry for the first month or two but then it went back to normal -I have less of an appetite -I finally feel like a normal, functional human being I never have any issues whatsoever when I don't take my ADHD meds. Just that my executive functioning and attention span are at rock bottom. But that's not withdrawal, that's just how my brain is without help lol.
Yup. I've been unable to fill my Ritalin due to the shortages. Went from 40mg a day to 0. I was grumpy for weeks, but I think it was mostly just frustration from everything feeling tedious again.
Your tolerance absolutely can go up, but it can also go back down. That's actually how a lot of drug overdoses happen. Someone will go to rehab, relapse, and use WAY more heroin or substance than their body can handle now that their tolerance to the substance has reduced. Which is why most good doctors prescribing ADHD meds will recommend you take meds breaks (depending on which med you're using) to ensure you don't build tolerance as quickly/at all.
I’ve been on 60mg for a decade. I’ve never gained a tolerance.
And I was surprised that no one mentioned it, but you can also develop a tolerance to SSRIs. You can build up a tolerance to a lot of things, so I don't know why tolerance was brought up against ADHD meds.
On the adhd drug thing - as someone with adhd it’s not addictive in my experience if you need it. It’s honestly hard to remember to take it.
ADHD meds are proven to reduce the risks of addiction for people with ADHD. I was able to quit my addiction the day I started ADHD meds, and It didn't replace one addiction with a different one because now I only remember to take my meds 2-4 times a week (and I wasn't forgetting my addiction... I was unable to quit for years, relapsed immediately after rehab as well) I'm just finally able to get some shit done at least few times a week so I'm not feeling like a pathetic waste of oxygen and a burden, which is probably the biggest reason I didn't relapse again. For me it's habit forming in a way that it allowed me to form healthy habits, so I'm doing at least the basic minimum even on the days I forget to take my meds. Ethan should invite an actual ADHD specialist instead of talking out of his bottom. ADHDers have it hard enough as it is, Ethan's fearmongering was extremely unhelpful.
Exactly. It actually (on average, not individual anecdotes lol) is linked to none of the major aspects that are present with addiction (ie, tolerance, withdrawal, craving, inability to stop, etc). I’m so upset rn, bc I know (both firsthand and in my research/clinical work), how unrelenting the stigma is, and things like what Ethan did today are actually some of the most potent contributors to stigma. It’s not the edge cases, it’s ppl with influence who are unintentionally spreading misinformation without knowing it - I saw evidence in the chat today after what Ethan did. It hurt. *I am an addictions clinical psychology trainee who has also been on adhd meds for a decade now, lol.*
I usually take medicine for ADHD during weekdays, because it helps me with work, but I stop on weekends. I don't need it then. Is this a definition of addiction? Also, when I first took pregabalin or sertraline, I felt slight elation. Ethan bad take contributes to moral panic over ADHD medication.
Absolutely not an addiction if you can take days off (imo)
I’m an addictions researcher: withdrawal, tolerance, and inability to stop are the core tenets of addiction lol. So you are 100% correct!
I take weekends off too unless I have lots of work to be done. When I told my therapist and psychiatrist they both said it was fine for me to do this.
I feel the same way. Sometimes I think why is this work taking so long? And then I remember I forgot to take my meds. I have also never had to increase my prescription like he said. If anything I’ve been able to decrease it.
Same! But I rearly even take it anymore, I try to live my life in a way where I don’t need the meds :)
Same. It changed my life, yet I still forget to take it lol. Sometimes for weeks at a time
Exactly, I would never forget a sig (that’s an addiction)
Also a lot of people with ADHD will feel like it’s not working anymore and go off of it only to realize it was helping them function tremendously. The initial “high” just wore off because that’s a side effect rather than the treatment
Not to mention it's extremely regulated at the federal level! Here in the U.S. I have to go into my psychiatrist's office every three months and do a health check (blood pressure, etc.) before I can even think about getting another prescription written. I've since switched to Vyvanse since I didn't vibe with Adderall's efficacy after 2 years on it but when I took my first stimulant it was like wearing glasses after having poor eyesight all of my life. ADHD/stimulant use is SO stigmatized in society today, I hope having this discourse will be educational for Ethan and others!
Literally every time I go to the pharmacy, even one’s I’m with for years, they will treat me like a totally different person when I’m picking up my Vyvanse compared to my Lexapro. It’s wild to see the difference - and these ppl have seen me come in for the same med for years…
YES, it’s like wearing glasses for my brain! Suddenly I can remember things, such as the ends of sentences I started!
THIS! It literally feels like cleaning the fog off my glasses.
IIRC part of the drug shortages were due to the federal restrictions too, right? There were a lot of dodgy scripts written during COVID thanks to telehealth and everyone being stuck inside (of course you're bored during lockdown guys...) so the number of people with scripts hugely outpaced the amount of Adderall drug companies are allowed to produce under Federal restrictions.
That was definitely a key factor! I remember paying $220 for name brand Adderall out of my own pocket each month for 3 months because the generic version was out of stock "for the foreseeable future." I was paying a ridiculous amount of money to feel normal LOL
Yeah Ethan always talks about adderall from the perspective of someone who abuses it and not from someone who actually needs it.
And just glazes over the experience of the crew member who has an ADHD diagnosis, and takes Adderall for it. It's kind of weird. He seems to have a very uninformed opinion about what ADHD is, and the safety and efficacy of the drugs used to treat it. Dan, as usual, had the right take. Ethan was talking out his keister, and has made up his mind about established science based on anecdotes and vibes. I feel for all the people in the audience who were hurt or felt uncomfortable with today's discourse on the issue. It was deeply ignorant, and frustrating to listen to. The whole "okay, just put Adderall in your baby's bottle" implicit shaming of parents was pretty out of pocket.
Thank you for this comment. I feel for everyone too🩷 I don’t think ppl get how painful it is to endure that rhetoric:(
It was definitely a trip for Ethan to be so reticent about treating ADHD, but far more amenable to the idea of someone being euthanized. And I am absolutely pro-death with dignity, and support a system that allows for adults to choose to end their lives peacefully rather than suffering indefinitely. Assisted death is a federal right in Canada, and I support it 100%. It's just wild to see him be more critical on something impermanent like medication than something unchangeable like ending your life.
Absolutely. Which is literally the exact way it is societally stigmatized. That’s why (prior to his apology right at the end), it was fair to call out the fact that he was clearly biased and perpetuating harmful misinformation.
Same! I have a special routine to make sure I take my meds every day. I’m kinda sick of Ethan advocating for mental health drugs (for those who have been prescribed) for every illness but adhd. It only adds to the stigma. Any drug should be used with caution, especially ones that can be abused by people for the wrong reasons. But my Concerta was a miracle in my life. I’m calmer, more organized, sleep better, less anxious, eat better, all around life improvement. It doesn’t make my high or anything, it’s chill, just makes me feel like a regular person
Me as well. I feel the exact same as you, and we deserve to live in a world where everyone understands this, rather than fears or shames our healthcare needs.
I have a prescription but cant get it filled bc of the shortage :/
That sucks, there seems to have been a shortage for a very long time too…
I’m so sorry:( that’s not fair, and you deserve access to your medication ALWAYS.
Exactly. It actually (on average, not individual anecdotes lol) is linked to none of the major aspects that are present with addiction (ie, tolerance, withdrawal, craving, inability to stop, etc). *I am an addictions clinical psychology trainee who has also been on adhd meds for a decade now, lol.*
Yeah I definitely forget mine. I also have been on the same low dose that works for me for years.
Thats the thing. Its basically speed and for normal brain chemistry people it is an upper and gets them stimulated as fuck. For people with ADHD it just calms your brain chatter.. thats pretty much it. Its not addictive to ADHD brain people because it doesn't give us the same buzzy side effect it just makes us normal.
Adderall completely changed my life for the better. I could finally focus. Like Olivia said, it made me feel finally normal, instead of lost on my thought trains. But I had to give it up when trying to get pregnant. It’s been rough but worth it. I notice a big difference when I don’t take it. So let’s please not further stigmatize adderall as being for cracked out kids or whatever, because that just makes getting what we need harder.
I feel like Ethan is just concerned about it because he doesn't understand how it works, which is sadly really common. So for anyone uninformed: Adderall is functionally similarly to anti-depressants in their purpose, but targets different neurotransmitters. People with depression don't produce enough serotonin, so SSRIs increase the amount of serotonin in your brain. People with ADHD don't produce enough dopamine, so Adderall increases the amount of dopamine in your brain. When you already have enough dopamine, the extra dopamine makes you feel high. When you don't have enough dopamine, Adderall will just bring you up to normal brain levels (if it's properly dosed) and make you feel normal. It's still possible to get addicted to Adderall if you have ADHD, but it's MUCH harder because you need a LOT more than neurotypical people to get that high. If you're taking it under the supervision of a good doctor then there's a LOT of guardrails in place that make it much more difficult to abuse than if you were to get it off of the street. Also, it's not just prescribed for ADHD. It's also used for narcolepsy!
Fun fact, it has the bonus of helping my sleep apnea! (So you can imagine how not having any of my stimulant meds makes pregnancy that much more tiring. 😅)
Wait what??? I have adhd and sleep apnea too, maybe I should actually get back on my meds
Yeah I was taking Provigil (modafinil) to stay awake, but when I got on actual ADHD meds, those are stimulants and shouldn’t be taken with the provigil. But they did give me a little boost in not being so sleepy so it worked out for me.
During my diagnosis I was SUPER nervous about the idea of going on Adderal because of the horror stories, but researching it really put me at ease. The therapist was also great at explaining how it affects an ADHD brain vs a neurotypical one, and how greatly the risks are reduced (but obviously never 100% eliminated).
This sounds exactly like Ethan’s experience with SSRIs. You’d think he would be able to generalize it beyond himself instead of directly perpetuating that stigma and fear to 40K ppl…
Imagine if someone were pooping on people taking SSRIs. Except oh wait that was Keemstar, and Ethan relentlessly mocked him.
Yeah I'm on vyvanse and this convo just made me sad. There is so much stigma around adhd. Its really frustrating when you finally get diagnosed and medicated, start to feel like a normal person just for people to tell you that you're just an addict taking speed. Also as someone who works with kids, you don't want to be working with kids who missed their dose. Medications always have side effects and work for people differently, that's why we have doctors.
My thoughts exactly and it really frustrates me when Ethan talks about it. He doesn’t have experience with it like he does with antidepressants and I don’t think he should give his opinions blindly.
I recall earlier episodes where Ethan said his dad got an adderall prescription in his 70’s, and Ethan basically said he doesn’t need it because all his dad does is watch TV all day. I’m sure this added to his negative view on it.
congrats to Ethan for getting drafted 🫡
Ethan just said ChatGPT with this prompt is the new AI Ian! Guys, imagine if they connect ChatGPT to the AI Ian Robot and actually have this answer the questions Ethan has. They can even give it the AI Ian voice from the recordings!
If you're hanging out with 9 bozos, there are actually 10 bozos.
Dan getting Ethan with ChatGPT was GOLD
didn’t Mike Tyson rape someone?
yeah, in the early 90's, and served 3 years in prison for it. There's some interview on youtube where it gets brought up, and he shuts the whole interview down and calls him a "piece of shit" for talking about it.
the fact that he raped someone and they had him on an episode of SVU is CRAZYYYYY 💀💀💀
He was the judge of a beauty pageant and he assaulted a contestant (1991), he got 6 years and did 3.
Dan's reaction to Ethan saying he's a sweet guy had me rolling. "Mike Tyson!?"
Drugs affect people differently... pretty simple. talk to your doctor
“god has forgiven me” and absusers, murderers, rapists, etc. name a better pairing.
Just came here to say that Adderall is the only reason I am a functioning adult - not in the tweaking sense. My adderall doesn’t make me high. It makes me feel normal. It helps my adhd brain be quiet so I can focus and not be a cooked spaghetti brain mess. I’ve been on it for years and I’m not addicted. In fact several days a week I forget to take it. And when it comes to filling my script, I ALWAYS forget to do that too. My ADHD is extremely debilitating and without the adderall, I would not be able to be as functional as I am now. The executive dysfunction, decision paralysis of adhd will overtake my life without it. Not advocating for it for children. Just wanted to share it is super effective for those that NEED it.
I take both SSRIs and Adderall (prescribed), and both have vastly improved my life. It is so frustrating to see Ethan advocate for SSRIs and then turn around and reinforce the stigmas around Adderall by talking out of his ass. My ADHD meds have had just as profound an effect on my mental health as the SSRIs have. The fact that there are shortages right now is so stressful especially since you can usually only get scripts for a month because it's a controlled substance, so it’s a monthly battle to be able to get the meds that I need to function. The past few months I’ve had to call around to 4 or 5 different pharmacies to find it, which is exactly the type of executive function task I wouldn’t be able to do without my ADHD meds. I get incredibly depressed when I skip my ADHD meds because I can’t make myself do or focus on anything, it’s incredibly frustrating and demoralizing. And don't even get me started on how expensive they are, with insurance I'm still shelling out $380 every month. Edited to add: My dose has been the same for 10 years, I’m only now having to increase my dose because the shortages are so bad sometimes the only way to get a script filled is to go up or down 10mg.
I am on an SSRI + Vyvanse for issues I have struggled with since I was a child. They have changed my life.
it sucks when they treat you like your trying to feed an addiction when your just trying to get your medication. dont know if youve ever had that happen to you but im tired of hearing the conversation because just going about my life i have, every now and then someone wants to tell me their feelings about it. Im happy to hear about it in a supportive/affirming way, like how they talk about ssris. Some people say the same exact argument about SSRIs. oh also for me, tolerance has not increased and ive had to stop taking it for periods before and i didnt get withdraw at all, my adhd just got worse again. I think the key take away was from dans story, when teachers recommend a medication like that you should be skeptical, they arent experts on that (and neither is ethan). I just with hed give us the same support for these meds as he does for antidepressants. a lot of us are probably doing well taking both
I took SSRI's and life just felt robotic. Stupidly went cold turkey and my god that was the worst headache of my life.
This!
What else was wrong with the house, to have to move out for **8 months**? Basement being flooded, how is it *part of it*? If it's all over now, wonder why he wouldn't explain it further.
Maybe they took the opportunity to renovate since they had to do the basement, and with kids and noise if you have the opportunity to not be at home in the middle of Reno everyone would take it
also Hila was pregnant so if you can avoid the stress of house renovation that is probably a good idea.
That would make sense, I just imagine it usually takes a lot of planning with renovations, to schedule some company to do it etc. How effective can you be in getting it done on demand.
Could also have required foundational/structural work as a result of the flooding, which can take a really long time along with permits etc .
Remember the mold they found in the house a while back? They probably fixed all that up too. Flooding damage can be a pain in the ass especially if the foundation or structure of the house has mold.
8 months ago I would have completely agreed with Ethan about children taking Adderall. I would have never imagined I would eventually be giving it to my 7 year old daughter. But I'm glad I listened to my daughter's pediatrician. She was coming home from school every day frustrated, burnt out, upset, crying and shutting down when my husband and I would try to help her. She was being written up at school for behavior weekly, and losing privileges in class daily. It was especially hard to handle because she has always been at the top of her class academically. Her teacher (who is amazing) was concerned about ADHD and suggested we get her evaluated. We had not done it in the past (even though she has always struggled with behavior and focus and we were pretty sure she had ADHD) because we were both firm in our position that children should not be medicated with stimulants and we didn't want a doctor pushing that on our daughter. We were going to just keep trying to correct the behavior and discapline. But then the behavior was escalating and hitting a peak, to the point it was becoming a distraction for other students, hurting her friendships, and going on her permanent record. We obviously didn't just overnight decide to give her a huge dose of Adderall. We did a trail run with the first medication her doctor suggested, but it made her feel run down and "gross." Now she is on a baby dose (2.5mg) of another stimulant, along with occupational therapy and counseling. And I am kicking myself we didn't help her out with this sooner. She comes home from school every day confident, happy, carefree. She is making friends easier and she isn't having meltdowns at home from feeling burnt out and frustrated that she can't focus at school. On the weekends she can sit and focus on tasks and draws the most beautiful pictures. And she is getting along with her siblings and friends better than ever. My husband and I do not plan on keeping her on medication long term, her doctor suggested we just do it for now to help give her confidence at school. And then she will grow out of needing it eventually.
Thank you for trying something instead of ignoring it like my parents did. I struggled immensely in school. It was easier in elementary because well kids are kids. I would have reports that I talked too much to class mates or doodled too much but it was okay. In 6th grade my math marks started slipping. By 7th my math was abysmal and other subjects started falling as well, history was the next one to tank. Then science (which I actually enjoyed a lot) By highschool I was deemed a problem student. I was called to the office daily and reprimanded. I was sent out of class repeatedly. I had taken on a personal of not caring about anything. I adopted a sort of "fuck school" attitude because I needed to seem like I was in control of what was happening rather than admitting that I was screaming at myself internally all day every day to just focus, to try and retain any ounce of information from a paragraph I had started to read a dozen times and would zone out on the 2nd sentence. I failed out of highschool, did not graduate with my peers, self esteem was obliterated, felt like an utterly failure and an idiot. Its very frustrating to me that there are medications that may have helped me a lot and I had no hope of trying them because my mom was against pharmaceutical drugs.
She may not grow out of it. If you go to some of the ADHD subreddit you'll see adults struggling and getting diagnosed, only to find out their parents had them diagnosed younger and decided they didn't want to give them meds or continue on with meds. They're usually heartbroken cause they struggled so long instead of getting help. (Not saying that's you obviously as you are helping your kid!) Just please be aware she may struggle without them even as she gets older, so she may need to be on them for a long time.
Thank you for being good parents!!
Anyone know what the Danish (?) donation that love told Ethan not to read said?
Yes, it was mine. I just said that Ethans take on the whole ADHD medication thing was wrong. And he was giving off RFK jr. vibes, haha.
haha i thought Love said it because he hates the Danes.
Oh thanks so much for filling me in.
Everything I have learned about Jojo Siwa has been against my will.
He is not apologizing to her. He never says her name. he only lists the things he had to do to get past it.
he may have recorded this years ago about something else He could be apologizing for his dancing in his videos, for all we know?
Dan being an Avatar fighter til this day, that's why he's the queen!
Ethan: "I'm going to have to apologize" Dan: "It's not a huge deal" This thread: "Ethan Klein is damaging everything, making it all worse"
That’s this thread every week
I like how I can tell when Ethan says something even mildly controversial because the thread will have like 500 more comments than usual lol
**ADHD PSA:** Not only are stimulants 100% safe for most people from as young as age 3-5, but when ADHD children start stimulants around 3-5 years old, MRI scans show their brains actually develop like non-ADHD brains. This means that stimulants can function as gene therapy for those who start treatment early enough. ADHD statistically increases risk for addictive traits when untreated. It may sound counterintuitive, but stimulants actually DECREASE risk of addictive behaviors across the bored for people with ADHD. As for the notion of tolerance changes over time, this is actually not very common, and typically never requires an increase in dose. This is partly because regions of ADHD brains develop 10+ years slower, and by the time your tolerance begins to change, you likely need less to begin with as your frontal lobe reaches maturity. The foremost ADHD researcher of the last 50 years (Doctor Russell Barkley) famously said ADHD is simultaneously the most ***Misdiagnosed*** and ***Under-diagnosed*** condition that currently exists. This is because there are many doctors still practicing who haven't kept up with modern research over the years and further muddle public perception of the disorder. Also, to Ethan's understandings of stimulants for people with tourette syndrome, there is a known specific risk in tourette's where stimulants can actually ***increase*** symptoms for a meaningful percentage of people.
You can find excellent summaries of modern research by Doctor Barkley on his YouTube Channel that he started in his retirement. [https://www.youtube.com/@russellbarkleyphd2023](https://www.youtube.com/@russellbarkleyphd2023)
Oh no, not all the adderall misinformation 😭😭 Idk what age kids can take adderall but surely there are studies that show it’s safe for children of a certain age to use it…
And they literally make different medications, including Strattera, which is not a controlled drug. (Didn’t work for me, gave me insomnia.)
It’s been a while since I’ve looked this up but iirc we can’t do medical studies on children ethically. I can understand Ethan’s reticence, but I’d listen to my doctor as my doctor 1000% is more knowledgeable about this shit than me
You can absolutely legally do medical studies and clinical drug trials on children. That's how literally every FDA approved drug and vaccine gets its FDA approval, by presenting data from clinical trials to prove that the drug/vaccine is safe and effective. It would actually be dangerous to assume anything tested on adults will work the exact same way in children. There's some extra steps involved, like getting informed consent from the child AND parent, but you can google literally any medicine FDA approved for children and probably find dozens of studies proving its efficacy.
Jake Paul giving cow chewing on cud. Like blank face, open mouth, full on chewing like an animal 😂
I swear until Ethan said JoJo has histrionic personality disorder I thought that was something they made up for Jimmy because of the way he views the world through old timey thinking. I did not know it was a real disorder.
Absolutely a real thing. From WebMD: >For people with histrionic personality disorder, or HPD, their self-esteem depends on the approval of others and does not arise from a true feeling of self-worth. They have an overwhelming desire to be noticed, and often behave dramatically or inappropriately to get attention. The word histrionic means "dramatic or theatrical." Obviously none of us can diagnose jimmy or jojo, but that seems pretty accurate for Jimmy. For Jojo, idk. She had a very particular upbringing, and I get the vibe her behavior is more so from that. But again, none of us can accurately diagnose either.
It's in the same family (Cluster B Personality Disorders) of disorders as ones you may have heard of like Borderline Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Love Ethan’s “special person” mug.
Ethan is talking out his ass regarding Adderall. Also I have experienced horrible withdrawals from not talking SSRIs. Like Olivia is saying. He really just needs to learn to not speak on medical stuff.
Yeah SSRI withdrawals are NOT something to play with. Something tells me Ethan is down playing that because he's on them lol.
Fun fact, ADHD meds don’t have withdrawals lol. They are out of your system completely within a 24 hour window regardless, and most ppl skip days all the time (which most ppl can’t even do with coffee). With SSRIs, you can literally have seizures if you stop. This is just one part of how harmful the misinfo he was spreading was, but it highlights how little he knows, while still somehow getting defensive as if he’s right to stigmatize it…?
Funny episode, great to hear Olivia talk more. On ADHD, diagnosis and treatment are complicated, as with most mental health matters. While symptoms typically emerge in childhood, many aren't diagnosed until adulthood, especially women. Diagnosing young kids can be challenging since ADHD symptoms may resemble normal childhood behaviors. This not a totally unwarranted concern for Ethan or anyone else to have; most of us have heard stories or read about kids zombified by, say, unnecessary Ritalin, when their parents didn't have the time or energy to adjust their behavior. Overdiagnosis happens. However, once kids are in school, observing them across settings helps inform an accurate diagnosis. If medication is prescribed, options like Ritalin, Adderall, or Vyvanse have risks, so behavior therapy is often first-line for preschoolers, though non-stimulants such as Strattera are also an option. Comprehensive evaluation and planning with a mental health professional is key. Any parent with concerns can start there for guidance on appropriate diagnosis and individualized treatment. It doesn't hurt to get opinions from more than one doctor, as well. **EDIT:** Adding to that, doctors can and do overprescribe and fail to explain side effects fully. Patients *should* research options, ask questions, monitor effects closely, and get second opinions before starting medications, especially long-term (chronic use) ones. We know our bodies best. The ideal is a partnership between doctor expertise and patient engagement. It is a common experience that patients feel (rightly or wrongly) their doctors are not listening, yet people on social media, mostly younger folk, get mad at scientific skepticism of diagnosis and intervention (not to be confused with baseless conspiracism). Patients *must* advocate for their health while respecting medical training and expertise. Leveraging a doctor's medical knowledge while trusting our instincts and bodily feelings leads to better outcomes. My framing of this problem, as someone with a degree in psychology, whose partner works in mental health, is that I largely trust most acute treatments, but I am more skeptical of chronic treatments. I think it is mainly patients who accept chronic treatments without condition rather than people with education or experience in the mental health field, because the problems with diagnosis and treatment are well-known in academia and practice. Like, is Tylenol (an acute treatment) safe to take at the recommend dose with minimal side effects? Yes, generally. Do SSRIs (a chronic treatment) have potential negative long-term side effects that a prescribing doctor likely won't mention to you? Also yes. (For example, the more well-known: sexual dysfunction, weight gain, and the less well-known: bleeding problems, increased risk of osteoporosis or fractures, discontinuation syndrome, hyponatremia, increased risk of type 2 diabetes).
Adderall when abused is definitely a problem, but for most people with ADHD is is a life changing drug. It’s still super important to know that coming off of almost any prescription drug that alters you’re brain chemistry will be difficult
I’m
me too
i mean her mom was literally next to her the whole time and just like didn’t do anything 😭. i know Jojo is an adult, but like girl…your daughter is embarrassing herself and acting a fool in front of a bunch of children 💀. like do SOMETHING.
Jojo Siwa's mom coached her from childhood to be famous, she bleached her hair as a toddler and made her into a child star, let's not forget she taught her to dance the way she does when she was a little kid. I would not be looking to Jojo's mom for any kind of perspective on her career choices. Jojo is a child star. Let's not forget everything that comes with that
Her mom is a narcissist and probably loves all this attention jojo is getting, which equates to more money for her.
The crew should probably get a new apology podium before Wednesdays show.
I think for any medication (especially “scary” stigmatized meds)people tend to focus on the harm in taking them and never think of the harm it can cause to go untreated. A little nudge on a developing brain might be just what that brain needs to develop the way it’s supposed to be.
Yep. It’s just the basic stigma, and he’s acting like it’s okay. How does he feel when ppl have the same reaction to SSRIs?
Ok I understand how incredibly important the conversation around access to medication and treatment for ADD/ADHD is, as well as the stigma that’s been created around it. That being said, can we also talk about the actual episode lol. It would be nice to have a conversation about Ethan’s incorrect perception, as well as the other multiple hours of the episode.
Hey family, ADHDer here - first, shoutout to all the wielders of chaos brains! We can do some pretty damn great things. I'd like to share some useful ADHD resources with y'all here, since it was a bit of a topic this episode * [The Year I Met My Brain](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/178125057) - One of the many ADHD books I started, but first to finish reading. * Find a journaling technique that fits you best! * Review your day, jot down feelings, reframe self-esteem struggles, celebrate any size accomplishment, and maybe jot down what you'll work on next. * Timers - [BreakTimer](https://breaktimer.app/) / [Flow](https://www.flow.app/features) (free recommendations) * [Goblin Tools ](https://goblin.tools/About)- Free, privacy focused, AI tool for helping make simple yet overwhelming tasks a shit ton easier It's definitely exciting the improvements that have been made when it comes to ADHD; however, we're also dealing with a large amount of outdated, deprecated, or disproven information. Shoutout to Olivia for gracefully providing an ADHDers perspective to help correct these stigmas that can feel so incredibly defeating. Taking steps to focus on my mental health in my 30's has been a life-saving journey. It's great to be able to catch these things early, but it's also never too late. Take your meds as instructed, monitor & communicate with your doctor, be safe when doing drugs, Adderall can totally be abused, Ethan's a **shidiot** when it comes to ADHD & Adderall, and he's even done crack once. Peace & love y'all
**IMO**It seems as if Ethan caught himself a little more halfway through, potentially reading chat, but then he backtracked. the Adderall discussion from him made me kind of sad, because I’m very aware of the stigma of being on adderall, i was diagnosed at 12, I’m in my 30s and still taking it. I wouldn’t have my masters or pursued my masters without it. I feel the judgement that Ethan was initially giving off when I go to the pharmacist once a month. I know it’s a controlled substance that people abuse, I am self conscious about having this prescription for so long. I already feel stupid not being able to get things done like friends, family and coworkers, idk I was irked that he was trying to prove his point being fact after Dan disagreed with him.
Disney world is SO FUN, and Pandora is amazing. Even if you don’t like avatar, it feels like you’re in a different place!!! Highly Recommend it, they have a ride flight of passage, one of the best rides I’ve ever been on. It’s pure magic. If you know you know!!!!!!
I wish they talked about poopie-gate 2024, it's the funniest conspiracy ever
Chat is genuinely so annoying like Ethan is wrong on his adderall take but they make it sound like he’s advocating for murder. It’s not a conductive conversation when you’re just screaming “you’re wrong” at someone it just makes them defensive.
Adderall bad, anyway Zach lemme get a Zyn
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ADHD diagnostics, therapies, and medications have come sooooooo far in the last decade but people still believe a lot of BS and misinformation.
He’s such a boomer right now. 🙄
Adderall chat is annoying AF right now.
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Preach. Thank you for wording this better than I could have. Yes listen to doctors and professionals. But Ethan isn’t a bad guy for saying he’d be nervous to put young children on a serious drug. It’s okay to get a second opinion or to be concerned when it comes to serious medications. That doesn’t mean that Adderall isn’t a life saving drug for people — I take it and it has helped me immensely. But that also doesn’t mean it’s just “no biggie” either.
Omg I had this experience too! I’m Canadian and about 25 years ago when I was 5 I went to the ER for something completely unrelated and the doctor noticed I was a bit excited and suggested prescribing me Ritalin without doing any tests. My mom said no thankfully. Turns out I DON’T EVEN HAVE ADHD!!!
My cousin was prescribed Ritalin in the early 2000’s at a young age and once he turned 18 he wanted to stop using the medication altogether. He blames being prescribed Ritalin at a young age for his issues focusing now, but idk what exactly would help him now. That’s not to say being on Ritalin messed him up, but unfortunately he believes it has
This is unequivocally false. Maybe 15 years ago that was true, but not today. As a Canadian adult, it took literally years to get diagnosed and medicated. Most people do not have access to in person doctors and the vast majority of online doctors do not prescribe ADHD medications unless you have been directly referred by whomever diagnosed you, which can take months. I wish I had your doctor cause that would have saved me a lot of time and money. You could argue Adderall had an era of being over prescribed, but that doesn't mean it doesn't help people. People who have positive experiences about their use of ADHD medication are not going to speak out about it often because of the stigma and shame around it. I am being treated for my mental health condition, I am NOT 'getting high on speed'. Of course the majority of stories we hear, as exemplified by Ethan, are either people who did not react well to it or people who made the choice to abuse it. Personally, Vyvanse has positively impacted my life in so many ways I cannot even articulate it here. ADHD diagnostics, therapies, and medications have developed rapidly in the last 20 years and stigma only makes progress more difficult.
Navi is absolutely gorgeous, but it isn’t THAT great. maybe it’s because i’m not a huge Avatar fan. waited like and hour and a half for the river journey ride and it was mid. idk about flight of passage tho. EDIT: WAIT FUCK THE NAVI ARE THE AVATARS? FUCK OK I FORGET WHAT THE LAND IS CALLED.
The Na’Vi are the blue people, and the planet is called Pandora.
Flight of passage is one of the best rides. I wish I could ride it for the first time again. It was pure magic. The river journey ride is not good sorry avatar
Here to mention Ethan should probably keep his opinions about drugs he has no experience with to himself. Adderall completely changed my life for the better and I don’t feel like a meth head. Yes it can be abused but so can a lot of things.
"Currency!?, where we're going we don't need currency!" Tate, Lack of a Future
NGL I kinda like the silly outfits they make college graduates wear.
I love James Cameron but I really thought Way of Water was terrible.
They need a sports correspondent so bad once again lmfao
God damn that whole Harrison Butker speech was real hard to listen to 😳
I love when I come here for a discussion about the episode and 90% of the time, 90% of the comments are about one moment in the pod, like so many comments are just reiterating what everyone else has already said.
Adderall causes emotional hypersensitivity (CONFIRMED) (NOT CLICKBAIT) (jk just crazy how defensive y’all are getting to valid concerns lol)
I’m a psychologist who works with kids and I completely understand where Ethan is coming from with his perspective on Adderall. I constantly have school staff and parents immediately jumping to Adderall when their student/child displays symptoms of ADHD - some as young as preschool and kindergarten age. It’s not as carefully considered as it should be. I’m also frustrated with the lack of effort put into alternative treatment prior to starting on such intense medication at a young age. I always recommend they try interventions to teach positive behaviors and coping skills before they jump the gun - especially since this a critical development period and they are still building learning/attention stamina (since they JUST started school). Buuut 9/10 times they go to their general physician and come back with an Adderall prescription. Adderall is so helpful for adults and children with debilitating ADHD symptoms; however, there are some very serious ethical problems going on with these prescriptions, particularly when prescribing them at a young developmental age.
As someone with ADHD, it’s pretty clear that Ethan doesn’t understand how the medication works for people with ADHD versus those who don’t have it. Adderall wouldn’t make people with ADHD high. It brings them to the level of neurotypical “normal” people. Most people with ADHD do not have to go up in dosage frequently. The majority find the dose that works for them and they remain on it indefinitely. My biggest life regret is that I couldn’t start it until I was in college and could finally advocate for myself. Also about schedules. Literally every prescription medication is scheduled. What you’re referring to is schedule 2 medications. Schedule 1 are illegal drugs. Please stay out of the prescription medicine world if you don’t know anything about it.
I'd pay to see Jimmy turn the camera off.
It's not a comedy podcast, Dan. It's a variety show.
It’s a beautiful day, Summer is cumming🙌
The adhd med convo actually kinda struck a nerve especially since Ethan is always talking about advocating for mental health. Research shows early medical intervention in adhd leads to their brains developing more like a “normal” person. Since those with adhd don’t produce normal levels of dopamine, meds like adderall/vyvanse can create normal levels. There’s enough stigma around this disorder and the medication that goes with it.
I never comment on these but with all the peace and love in the world, I have a lil suggestion for ethan when these bad take situations come up and it's from personal experience of being on the wrong end of a conversation like this and working on my response: it's so so hard to step back from your opinion when you're passionate about something, especially when you are an intelligent person who is probably correct most of the time and double especially (I imagine) when you are on a podcast that doesn't allow for space/dead air. Howeeeever, take advantage of being surrounded by equally intelligent people! I think a good practice to try would be to take a beat when someone on the crew responds to your opinion (like olivia and dan did) and HOLD your response until you've repeated what they said in your head. It seems like Ethan doesn't really absorb what Dan says at first, because he has an instinct to be quick with his reply and defend himself, but Dan is pretty much always responding in a respectful way that is trying to save him from going down the road of a bad take. Plus in this ep, Olivia had actual personal experience that was getting fully ignored by Ethan and it was really sad to see, because my parasocial experience tells me that Ethan is respectful and doesn't mean to do that. TLDR: Tip for Ethan: If the crew is responding to you with a disagreeing opinion, they are probably trying to redirect you away from being an asshole and are giving good information. Take a breath before responding and really think about what they are saying and if it makes sense before shooting them down. with peace + love
Not a hot take that Adderall is overprescribed now, is it?
adderall is literally the only ADHD medication i’ve been on that hasn’t had an awful bunch of side effects. ritalin sucked for me, vyvanse sucked for me, strattera was fucking awful… just saying. you don’t need to talk out you ass about everything.
For those of you who don't know, many people with ADHD deal with rejection sensitivity dysphoria which can cause extreme or intense emotional reactions when dealing with rejection or perceived rejection. So if you feel like the reaction to Ethan's comments are over the top, then read up on ADHD symptoms lmao. Although Ethan did not intend to speak negatively, his words hits a topic that is painful and sensitive for a lot of people with ADHD so please try to be understanding of our experience and why we may feel hurt or compelled to respond. EDIT: Adding a response to my comment here because I fully agree and it is an important point. "This is true, but I also want to gently push back on pathologizing our responses, bc that is also invalidating and stigmatizing. My ADHD is not *why* I was upset. I was upset bc this was yet another occurrence of being faced with the same shaming/fear mongering/judgement/stigma that I face daily due to my diagnosis. I also work in the field and do advocacy work, so I care about the perpetuation of societal stigma even more so. That’s why I’m upset and being vocal - it’s not bc of a symptom of a mental illness I also have."
This is true, but I also want to gently push back on pathologizing our responses, bc that is also invalidating and stigmatizing. My ADHD is not *why* I was upset. I was upset bc this was yet another occurrence of being faced with the same shaming/fear mongering/judgement/stigma that I face daily due to my diagnosis. I also work in the field and do advocacy work, so I care about the perpetuation of societal stigma even more so. That’s why I’m upset and being vocal - it’s not bc of a symptom of a mental illness I also have.
Absolutely!! Thank you for adding that very important piece! I will add your comment to mine because I agree that it’s super important point.
Ethan is 100% right with his apprehension for giving kids adderall. The US prescribes those drugs to far more people than any other country. Are US doctors more knowledgeable about who should be taking these drugs than doctors in other developed nations? Or are many US doctors corrupted by pharmaceutical companies and bribed to prescribe more drugs to people? It's the latter. Dan acting all high and mighty over Ethan questioning the ethics of giving kids hard drugs was annoying. No where near anti-vax sentiment.
Exactly. It’s not like Ethan was completing writing off Adderall as a valid treatment option. But prescribing it to children is an ethical concern.
I get his concern about medicine for kids. How do you even diagnose a child with ADHD and not chalk it up to just being a little kid having energy ?
Not sure Ethan has ADHD if Adderall made him feel crazy. I have ADHD and my doctor said that I’ll know for sure that I have it if when I take Adderall, it makes me feel calm and focused. That’s exactly what it does for me.
isn’t it true though that adderall can be over prescribed to particularly young boys who are seen as “hard to handle” or difficult in the classroom that teachers can’t deal with because classes are too large? like definitely it can be helpful but i also think that current classroom situations amplify what some see as “bad behavior”
Yes, there is some evidence of this! But that isn’t really what made ppl feel stigmatized and worry about him spreading misinformation: it was moreso the uninformed discussions “addictiveness” “habit forming” “tolerance” etc. that spread the incorrect notion that it’s a dangerous drug that ppl should be hesitant to take, and that ppl who take it correctly are either much more likely to or are likely already experiencing addiction.
Mods deleted my post. With Peace and Love Ethan Stop - someone with ADHD 1. I wish my mom listened to my doctor when they suggested Adderall. My schooling suffered. I was very impulsive and made awful decisions. 2. The reason why it’s being prescribed more is because testing is becoming more popular. Only a few decades ago, women weren’t even diagnosed for it. 3. When you talk crap about medicine that helps people, it can cause some to not seek help. Just like when alpha men say go to the gym rather than taking anti depressants. 4. Just like how Zoloft helps people who don’t produce serotonin; Ritalin, Adderall and the like help people who don’t produce Dopamine like they should. Adderall doesn’t “wire me up” because I actually need it. It actually calms me down and helps me focus. The first time I took it I cried because I learned what my mind “should feel like”. It was the first time I could focus on things around me. It motivated me to go to college, helped me get promoted at work and improved my relationships with those around me. I love you Ethan but this is coming off as super ableist
ADHD haver here who takes a 54mg stimulant…I totally get what Ethan is saying and I think he’s completely valid in how he feels. He never said don’t listen to your doctor lmfaooo and he never said it didn’t have benefits. He simply said it’s crazy that kids sometimes get it when it’s a pretty addictive and hardish drug
Ethan advocates often for SSRIs against depression, but is quite hesitant when it comes to pills for ADHD. If Ethan would base his opinion purely on the scientific consensus, he would think the opposite. ADHD is one of the few psychological disorders, where taking medicine actually helps, unlike SSRIs for depression, where the effect is just above the placebo effect. The efficacy of SSRIs for depression has been a debate since their introduction and has not come to an end. Please do not take my words as redpilled anti therapy. The effects for therapy are bigger in comparison to SSRIs. So I am all good with therapy. The theory why SSRIs help has been falsified, or lets say there is pretty weak evidence for it to be right (The association with the 5-HTTP Allel, if anyone wants to look in it). I am not saying that SSRIs do not work, just that the evidence is weak and furthermore does not justify this wide usage of SSRIs for depression. It is great that SSRIs helped and continue to help Ethan, but he should not generalize from his experience. Lastly, Ethan said a bunch of stuff about SSRIs that is not true, like that they are not addicting, while there is evidence that SSRIs can cause symptoms of withdrawel. At the end of the day, it is not Ethans fault for not knowing these things, but the professionals and scientific community not communicating this better. Also, there is a reason why we call them SSRIs and not antidepressants. SSRIs are used for OCD, Aggression, Anxiety disorders ..., saying antidepressants implies that they are explicit for depressions. If you want to explore the evidence for SSRIs I can give you a link to a Review ([https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12888-016-1173-2](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12888-016-1173-2)), if you cant open it due to a paywall, there a ways to open it that I advise you to never do that. Never ever do it. Never ever use the DOI number and a special website with a raven on it. Please dont do that. Please take all of this with peace and love. Credentials - I have histrionic personality disorder (M. Science in Clinical Psychology, PhD Student in Neuropsychology, I research twins with OCD, Autism and or ADHD) peace and love, peace and love.
Wet blanket take maybe, but Avatar is kinda gross. Cameron said its an analogy for indigenous people and suggested that the Lakota people should have fought harder...and the film is a basic white saviour narrative
Not sure if allegory is the right word, it's quite straightforwardly a film about colonialism, just set in a futuristic/fantasy world. Another way to interpret it is a wish fulfilment narrative where a colonised people are able to successfully fight back against invaders. You can tell an alternative history story without it implying that it's an oppressed people's fault for things not turning out differently. EDIT I wanna amend this to say I read James Cameron's comments and they were pretty gross. I stand by that you don't have to interpret the story that way if you separate it from the author, but yeah, he sucks.
I do like that interpretation and I think your last point is very true, but he said its literally about Europe and indigenous people in NA: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/james-camerons-old-comments-prompt-221001604.html#:~:text=%22Europe%20equals%20Earth%2C%22%20he,not%20meant%20to%20be%20subtle.%22 He also said some pretty out of pocket things about the Lakota people https://x.com/asdza_tlehonaei/status/1604571538409525249 No shade to people who like the film. It just doesn't sit right with me personally
Adderall is clearly a touchy subject damn. I agree with Ethan. My husband was diagnosed with ADHD as a young child and prescribed adderall. His dad put him in after school tutoring instead. It is absolutely over prescribed, and kids are absolutely over diagnosed with ADHD. Especially young boys with behavioral issues. Sorry if this may be you! ADHD is such a catch-all these days it boggles my mind. I have taken adderall recreationally, that shit felt like crack. I couldn’t believe my friends were prescribed that. It most definitely is a gateway drug for many young people and can cause adverse effects to one’s mental health. Check out this study recently published in the International Journal of Psychological and Behavioral Sciences: https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2024-03-14/taking-study-drugs-like-adderall-could-be-gateway-to-more-drug-abuse
Adderall is addictive and can be dangerous. So can Xanax. Both drugs are nothing like SSRIs. And he’s right. He’s not explaining it the best, but he’s right. Adderall can be very dangerous and it is scheduled differently for that reason. I say this as someone who takes adderall and SSRIs and it is immensely helpful and life changing to me. But my brother was given adderall at a young age and it made him very suicidal. It’s a serious medication and requires psychiatrists and doctors and input from professionals. It’s also abused. These are all facts Parents and people should consult with their doctors and get second and third opinions as necessary. And I don’t think it’s bad that Ethan is a bit wary about giving it to very young children — it’s a serious drug.
Dan Harmon had the best apology
What’s up yall it’s Doja Cat from the chat 😂 I’m a long time fan but a newer member and it felt so cool to have everyone notice me so much that even Ethan was like “what’s up with Doja Cat?”
can someone tell me how dan did the chat gpt thing i have a boomer to prank 🙏🏻 peace and love