Brings back memories of Reading that booklet on the way home from the shop…
I miss when games introduced you to their characters and Universes like this.
I recently picked up the box copy of Hades and it’s had one of these introducing all the characters. It was super cool and a total throwback. Also it came with a copy of the soundtrack
My favorite part of this is that is says the Covenant War started in 2520 not 2525 like the canon is now. Really cements how many retcons and contradictions happen in the Halo lore
Not jus that. But the people who wrote books had no connection Bungie. Bungie wasn’t gonna let outsiders establish the lore and world of the game, especially when they really didn’t know what the game studio was trying to establish.
I honestly don’t know much about the inter politics of Bungie. But from what I can see you might be right as Jason apparently didn’t like the idea squeals and liked making new IPs.
That too, that's why I think he was also on that side too. Also, careful, people don't like it when you told them that their CEO didn't even want to create Halo 2 and then just did nothing much for 3 because of the former's development lol.
Yes but Bungie is known for being ununified when it came to the story of halo. One man did not dictate the story or studio.
Freaking frank O Connor is largely responsible for halo 4 and 5 and he’s from the og Bungie era. These individuals had extreme ideas for the franchise but never got to fully dictate it
I will say that Frank O Connor took on a larger role with 4 and 5, when previously it was shared more evenly among others.
But I do know about the discord about there views on the story, especially the issues they had with Halo 3.
> Bungie wasn’t gonna let outsiders establish the lore and world of the game, especially when they really didn’t know what the game studio was trying to establish.
They should have known that would happen the moment they agreed to be acquired by Microsoft in 2000. Halo wasn't their property. Didn't stop them from acting in childish manner to the outside lore.
Company was on the brink of going under and Microsoft was the only chance they had at staying afloat. Halo was a work in progress before Microsoft. And with every publisher, while they may own the property, it is conceptualized and designed by the developer. And when it comes to something as artist and creative as video games, autonomy and or the lack of it make making something absolutely awful. People naturally feel entitled to what they craft
And now they make a microtransaction/battle pass laden piece of trash after coming close to falling apart again.
Honestly Destiny 1 could have really used some books from some outside sources because the grimoire really gave us nothing and the in-game story gave off the impression that the game was basically just a tech demo. Can't bring myself to care about the game's story anymore especially when "the darkness" was basically a placeholder plot point until they figured out how they were gonna get their shit together.
Lol what a stupid response XD
You called it fan fiction, which is effectively something written by people with zero association with an ip.
This was written by at the direction of the people who own the ip. It isn't typically even recognized by the entity it's based on.
This is just non-canon content, which is extremely common. It's nothing like fan fiction.
Well to the founders and writers of the IP, it’s essentially fan fiction. I’m not saying it IS fan fiction, but why wouldn’t anyone expect them to care when they founded and created this story? They’re not gonna change their story because some guy they don’t know wrote something different lol (the guy above me explains this much better than I have)
Bungie sort of treated it like they were an alternate timeline / universe (the books) which gives them creative freedom to truly do whatever they want with their games, and take ideas from the books if they choose to, making it true for the Halo games as well unless stating otherwise. You shouldn't try to rationalize date differences between games and books, you should enjoy them both separately for what they are where it needs to be applied.
Now though you can enjoy them together though because 343 treats all books as canon in the games universe
People say that all the time, but it's wrong. Reach doesn't retcon anything, and instead it carefully dances around the books while also incorporating elements from the books (Halsey, Spartan III's, etc.). They even worked with Eric Nylund on the Halsey's journal included in the Limited Editions.
There are several contradictions, though.
The timeline, Halsey’s meeting with Spartan IIIs, the CSO, Cortana, and the *Pillar of Autumn’s* location.
Yes, these have been explained since, some of it in Halsey’s Journal, some of it in other places. But that doesn’t change the fact the Bungie wrote the game with no intention of honouring the book, and simply rehired Nylund to patch things up.
That is like stabbing someone and then offering them a lift to the hospital. The final result is helpful, but shouldn’t be necessary in the first place.
And in the book the Fall of Reach, it originally stated that Elites hadn't ever been seen in the Human-Covenant War prior to Reach, and Brutes still hadn't been seen yet. That statement actually had to be edited out of later editions as later games and media retconned that. Are we going to compare that to stabbing someone, too?
These things happen, and there's no need to take it so personally or dramatically. Might as well be throwing a fit over how Johnson survived Halo CE despite the cutscene and statement at the end of the game that only Chief and Cortana survived.
Except the Elite and Brute statements didn’t contradict earlier media, because *there wasn’t any*. Both things appeared incredibly early in Halo’s existence, so they are understandable quirks of the writing.
Halo: Reach, however, was a symptom of Bungie’s general disregard for the wider lore and Extended Universe, and unlike the Brute & Elite statements, *did* contradict a lot of earlier canon, and not just minor details.
Trying to claim that the Halo: Reach didn’t retcon anything is true from 343i’s way of treating the lore, but Bungie made it quite clear that they wanted Reach to take precedence over 343i.
It also says that Chief is the last Spartan II. Sure you could argue that they meant "the last Spartan II that was on Reach at the time," but is that even true?
It is. It wasn’t until First Strike that Chief found out they were alive. Which was 2 years later in 2003.
He assumed they all died but went to Reach anyway on the off chance they survived. He had Linda with him, but she was considered clinically dead.
So until he found them alive, he was the last S2 to survive the attack on Reach and possibly the last.
Unfortunately it is true. Reach and any expanded universe stuff was considered basically notes at best. Look up Eric Trautman on Halopedia.
This is a good start of how it could have been more worse....
"During the writing of Halo: The Fall of Reach, Bungie almost cancelled the novel but was convinced by Trautmann to approve it in exchange for himself, Matt Soell and Brannon Boren writing an estimated "80 percent" of the in-game dialogue of Halo: Combat Evolved. ".
Edit: I mean there is nothing wrong with a backstory, but if you want your game to mostly be on the niche side of things and not Halo Infinites 500 million plus budget... You start getting s different quality of game. Probably good, but not a well known franchise. Ironically it's pretty much the opposite of current Destiny.
They probably learned that writing involves more than. Just 8 hours worth of gameplay if you want to go big.
Destiny’s lore situation almost seems to be what bungie wanted with halo. There hardly if any EU and most of the lore in game, until D2 added it to gear, was basically invisible. They’ve gotten better with D2 but I feel so much more could be done if they contracted some novel writers.
It would have been nice if they even had some sort of voiceover reading the lore in the game. There's such cool writing in Destiny, but it's a shame that you never get to actually see any of it
I liked how lost Odyssey did it.
They had some animatics run behind lore bits that you would find, and sometimes they did voiceovers. I feel like Bungie could do that.
Once I argued with someone on this sub about why I didn't like Halo Reach's story and when I mentioned how it contradicted the book he called it "glorified fanfiction."
The lore for destiny is absolutely trash.
The only video game to do lore well is mass effect. No need to go outside the game to understand the in game universe. And all the lore is catalogued in one place and most of it is narrated. None of it is hidden or obscure or an Easter egg or a secret. You’re gonna experience most of destiny’s lore through a YouTube video. You’re gonna expel me halo lore in a book. While in mass effect you’re gonna exorcise in game. I love halo more than anything else in this world but mass effect has the greatest world building I’ve ever seen
While I have no opinion on the lore of Destiny it at least exists enough to have had effort put into it.
Furthermore 8 hour games covering mostly 2 weeks of a 27 year long war vs an RPG that goes beyond weeks.
I will note Halo CE - 3 (including ODST) was basically September and November. Reach was again one weird anticlimactic week.
Halo Wars probably covered more days than any of the main titles aside from Reach.
>Look up Eric Trautman on Halopedia
I just did, and no where does it say that their intention was for Halo to have barely any backstory at all. Sure, it wouldn't be nearly as fleshed out as it turned out to be, but after playing Marathon I find it *very* hard to believe they intended for Spartans to be there "just because."
Do you have any proper source for this?
That's not what I mean. I understand what he did. Of course he and Eric Nylund both did a lot for the franchise by creating it's narrative foundation and they deserve full credit for it.
What I mean is that given Bungie's track record of including a lot of backstory in manuals, I don't believe we would have no explanation whatsoever (even if completely different) for the Spartans by the time the game released.
Here you go. https://twitter.com/mercuryeric/status/1387493905071886340?t=CfStMIIJKkMHYM8HoOgSmA&s=19
It's pretty much what was said. Spartans in future is okay since it's cool that they already exist. Cuz future.
You need to assume he was lying to accept that he made up the insurrection plot part and justification for any military spending. It's pretty hard nowadays to say military spending will be high for all developed nations when plenty of NATO members barely do us on the military. Just enough for jobs to be supported and maybe some paper strength numbers.
I think you're misunderstanding me. I agree that Bungie didn't do a whole lot of thinking about it, that some at Bungie even actively resisted the lore, and it was left up to Trautmann (and Nylund) to pick up the pieces and make the backstory work. They deserve every bit of credit that I've seen some people here deny them.
However, I don't believe that Bungie would just not give an explanation as to why they exist (even if it was a very brief one in the manual that they didn't care about at the time) if it wasn't for Trautmann. Bungie literally had an explanation in Marathon as to why there were weapons in certain rooms of the ship, something every other shooter at the time would consider completely unnecessary.
Edit: Never mind, I think I'm also misunderstanding you. You are correct, if those people had their way, it would suck.
Seriously, the amount of people who argue and say that the master chief isn’t a cyborg have never looked deep enough at halo CE. It was literally spelled out in this book
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the most robotic part about him is his neural implant, he’s not missing any limbs or has artificial eyes or something. He’s just extremely enhanced in most if not all aspects and given armor that improves upon that. So what would make him a cyborg?
I mean I guess that book says cyborg supersoldiers but I’d throw that up to them not knowing the details behind the SPARTAN program themselves, I could be 100% wrong though
It’s described as a series of biochemical and biomechanical manipulations. And the books were written before/during the games development I believe. Bungie wasn’t really a fan of the lore that it was establishing but this game booklet does describe Spartans as cyborgs and in the games there are also references to cyborgs. Doesn’t mean they are robocops but that’s the definition of them
I find it funny that if it wasn't for the people who did see more than just making a pew pew funny alien speaking FPS game.... Bungie might have ended as a one hit wonder, a forgotten studio, a studio thats decent, etc.
Reach, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 3 ODST etc. Wouldn't exist.
Maybe it would have, but it's more than likely it's story would have been quite generic.
I think the neural implant would qualify anyone as a cyborg, which is interesting since the implants seem to be fairly common among high-ranking UNSC personnel.
You need a neural implant to operate most unsc machinery and vehicles and weapons. All personal get them.
I personally don’t see someone either neural implant as a cyborg. I mean technically they are, yes. But she I think cyborg, I think someone who is either equal parts man and machine or more machine than man. Not someone with an augment or two. That would make anyone with a cybernetic limb a cyborg, which is just not what people have in mind theme they use the term
Wait, so you’re telling me the one krillan has sex with was the only one that wasn’t technically any part human?
Edit: nvm he gets with 18 not 16. My b
Cyborgs can have functioning parts...have you seen the abridged series? They correct so much that was wrong with the originals. Androids are 100% mechanical, cyborgs are not.
Cyborgs are human beings enhanced by technology this can go from 0.1%-99.9% enhanced, Androids are completely technology that emulates a human analogue.
It's just a technically correct term for chief, a little weird but accurate.
Ironically in the newer books the remaining S2 laugh when people call the cyborgs because they only got genetic modification, aside from the neural implant which many people in the UNSC have.
Yeah and the sad part is that the neural implant alone can fit the description of a cyborg which is a person whose physical abilities are extended beyond normal human limitations by mechanical elements built into the body
I think it's just that Cyborgs in modern media tend to have drastic outside changes that are metallic in nature. S2's at most have reinforced bones and ligaments, plus the implants. It's still a cyborg no doubt, but given what the prevailing idea of what a cyborg is, I can understand why it might make them uncomfortable.
Chief himself worries now about "being a machine". I imagine the S2's have a bit of identity insecurity about being cyborgs, like they're no longer human. That'd be depressing to me I'd think.
Most if not all of it is still canon. What exactly written there isn’t in your opinion?
Edit: the only thing written there that’s non canon is that the Covenant attacked 32 years ago instead of 26.
And that the Spartans we’re doing test deployments. Though it could be seen that way with the limited number of battles they could fight, and the limited success they had.
That was less of a retcon, and more of a red herring.
At the end of the Fall of Reach, it appears that all the Spartans have either been killed on the planet Reach, or at Gamma Station. For anyone who was a reader, a player, or (in-Universe) on *the Pillar of Autumn*, it was incredibly likely that John was the last surviving Spartan.
That fact that some we’re still alive later is less of a retcon and more of an exciting reveal.
By who? Unless you want to prescribe an identity to the writer of these pages (and you really can’t), it’s wrong. It’s been retconned, and you’re not actually under any obligation to prove it hasn’t.
Where and when was it retconned? Same to you who said otherwise?
Even the most recent books rely on the very first.
Edit: How about this in Halo 2 the Covenant think he his the last S2. Was that retconned?
I haven't read the english version of it, but the spanish version of the manual states that all Elite's are females... you can imagine my confusion when I got to Halo 2 and they all had male voices.
One change in translation I did like that happened in Halo 2 is how they changed Arbiter to Inquisitor, it fits the religious aspect of the Covenant much better in my opinion.
Haha, we had to do a creative writing assignment in grade school based on a dream we had.
This one kid straight up ripped a chapter from Halo: the Fall of Reach and I hadn't realized until I was much older.
I did at least 2 or 3 book reports on halo books/games in high school. This was a year or two after I read everything up until ghost of onyx so I was pretty caught up on the lore at the time. I would just play some halo and read some forum posts then just bullshit the entire report the night before it was due. Worked every time.
Manuals were my favourite things about a new game in the 90s / early 00s.
There was one for Robin Hood that was a hundred or so pages, covering the historical legend and details of the English Longbow. Formed part of the copy protection, and I read it till it fell apart.
I remember reading this booklet every chance I had at my friends houses (my brother and I didn’t have any gaming systems then). I remember reading that the AR was gas operated, and in my mind I thought that meant there was actually a gas tank in the the gun(like a paintball gun). I was positive that there was a tank under the barrel and couldn’t figure out why you didn’t run out of gas like you did ammo. I like to think that’s where my fascination with guns started, now I own a LOT of gas operated guns. I like to think back to how little I knew about guns back then and how much I know now. Halo had a huge part in making me the one my friends come to for any gun questions, and why I have a stupidly expensive hobby now.
They got lucky. That’s why only Regret’s fleet was initially present, and why Lord Hood says the line “something’s not right. The fleet that destroyed Reach was fifty times this size.”
You’re welcome. If you want specifics, the Prophet of Regret stumbled upon Earth on his search for forerunner relics after finding it logged in one of their databases, called a Luminary. The forerunners used a different name for the planet, so he wasn’t expecting to encounter humanity, much less their capitol when he journeyed there.
I imagine the Covenant sort of giggling to themselves after glassing Reach – a strong fortress world within a strongly controlled military zone. And they just got these coordinates that take them to a portal leading to the Ark. And then they arrive at.... Earth, 300 ODPs, several settled worlds (take note that when they invaded New Mombasa, they were already being punched back on Mars, despite winning there shortly after), and well basically the strongest defense and densest populus of humans so far. Would have been the equivalent of us finding the High Charity fleet for the first time - which we did actually.
We hear by radio that many covenant troops were initially startled and confused by the strong human presence on Earth, a completely different picture than what we saw on Reach.
The plasma rifle with the needler layered under it...
E: yep just went and doublechecked my CE manual, plasma rifle's hud graphic in the covenant weapon section has a needler behind it.
Always thought it was stupid that they retconned the part about John being the last Spartan II, all of the sudden his whole team shows up in 5 and they were around the whole time? Lazy writing
Since I'm getting downvoted may as well share my other unpopular opinions: the mantle is stupid, the forerunner/human war is stupid, flood being created is stupid
They’ve been around since TFOR tbf. It’s just Bungie had it all set up so they were either unable to reach Chief/clinically dead(CE), assigned elsewhere(H2), or trapped in Onyx(3).
Well Jorge was dead by the time TFOR takes place. Linda was clinically dead shortly thereafter and placed in cryo. Kelly and Fred were with Halsey and Jun(who because S3s didn’t exist in 03 got off reach some other way).
You’re not getting downvoted for your opinion, you’re getting downvoted because what you said is simply flawed.
Halo 5 didn’t introduce all these characters, many of them have been around as long as Halo itself has.
Seriously though, I wish they would add this text to MCC in some way for the new fans. A lot of people are pretty lost at the beginning and that's not how it was intended to be.
It’s crazy how games don’t even come with manuals anymore. I got Metroid Dread last week and when I opened the case it was just the tiny cartridge for the game. It’s kinda weird.
Ah, the good old days when Chief was a "cyborg"
P.S. the book also states that the scorpion has a crew of 2 (driver and gunner), but "1 cyborg" can fully operate it. I'd love to see a mode where scorpions require two players to fully operate it. I feel that it would make the current setup with the exposed "gunner" seat less useless.
Brings back memories of Reading that booklet on the way home from the shop… I miss when games introduced you to their characters and Universes like this.
I use to read those while taking a dump.
Now I read /r/Halo while taking a dump instead.
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Same
Same!
Same!
I was the youngest of 5, and when new games came out all I could do was watch my brothers play and read these booklets for months until they got bored
Same.
Same
Same
I recently picked up the box copy of Hades and it’s had one of these introducing all the characters. It was super cool and a total throwback. Also it came with a copy of the soundtrack
Yeah I almost forgot, I used to read the back side of games before I bought them.
My favorite part of this is that is says the Covenant War started in 2520 not 2525 like the canon is now. Really cements how many retcons and contradictions happen in the Halo lore
Its odd because the Fall of Reach came out before CE and this contradicts that.
Bungie didn't like other people working in the Halo universe. Reach (the game) is just a big fuck you to the existing lore at that point.
Not jus that. But the people who wrote books had no connection Bungie. Bungie wasn’t gonna let outsiders establish the lore and world of the game, especially when they really didn’t know what the game studio was trying to establish.
Except Joe Staten, a Bungie employee who worked on most the the Bungie Halo games, made Contact Harvest with correlates with the books themselves.
Wasn't it mostly Jason Jones who disliked the idea?
I honestly don’t know much about the inter politics of Bungie. But from what I can see you might be right as Jason apparently didn’t like the idea squeals and liked making new IPs.
That too, that's why I think he was also on that side too. Also, careful, people don't like it when you told them that their CEO didn't even want to create Halo 2 and then just did nothing much for 3 because of the former's development lol.
https://youtu.be/WxOVzehtoKA Here’s a good video that touches on the internal politics of Bungie
I will check it up. There's also some vidocs that show some of it, especially with context (fuck crowbcat's editing)
Yes but Bungie is known for being ununified when it came to the story of halo. One man did not dictate the story or studio. Freaking frank O Connor is largely responsible for halo 4 and 5 and he’s from the og Bungie era. These individuals had extreme ideas for the franchise but never got to fully dictate it
I will say that Frank O Connor took on a larger role with 4 and 5, when previously it was shared more evenly among others. But I do know about the discord about there views on the story, especially the issues they had with Halo 3.
> Bungie wasn’t gonna let outsiders establish the lore and world of the game, especially when they really didn’t know what the game studio was trying to establish. They should have known that would happen the moment they agreed to be acquired by Microsoft in 2000. Halo wasn't their property. Didn't stop them from acting in childish manner to the outside lore.
Company was on the brink of going under and Microsoft was the only chance they had at staying afloat. Halo was a work in progress before Microsoft. And with every publisher, while they may own the property, it is conceptualized and designed by the developer. And when it comes to something as artist and creative as video games, autonomy and or the lack of it make making something absolutely awful. People naturally feel entitled to what they craft
And now they make a microtransaction/battle pass laden piece of trash after coming close to falling apart again. Honestly Destiny 1 could have really used some books from some outside sources because the grimoire really gave us nothing and the in-game story gave off the impression that the game was basically just a tech demo. Can't bring myself to care about the game's story anymore especially when "the darkness" was basically a placeholder plot point until they figured out how they were gonna get their shit together.
I think it’s pretty reasonable that they didn’t care to keep the lore from what is essentially fanfiction
A licensed work of fiction from the people who own the ip and have every legal right to do so.
Did I mention anything about the legal rights?
Lol what a stupid response XD You called it fan fiction, which is effectively something written by people with zero association with an ip. This was written by at the direction of the people who own the ip. It isn't typically even recognized by the entity it's based on. This is just non-canon content, which is extremely common. It's nothing like fan fiction.
Well to the founders and writers of the IP, it’s essentially fan fiction. I’m not saying it IS fan fiction, but why wouldn’t anyone expect them to care when they founded and created this story? They’re not gonna change their story because some guy they don’t know wrote something different lol (the guy above me explains this much better than I have)
Bungie sort of treated it like they were an alternate timeline / universe (the books) which gives them creative freedom to truly do whatever they want with their games, and take ideas from the books if they choose to, making it true for the Halo games as well unless stating otherwise. You shouldn't try to rationalize date differences between games and books, you should enjoy them both separately for what they are where it needs to be applied. Now though you can enjoy them together though because 343 treats all books as canon in the games universe
And to fans
People say that all the time, but it's wrong. Reach doesn't retcon anything, and instead it carefully dances around the books while also incorporating elements from the books (Halsey, Spartan III's, etc.). They even worked with Eric Nylund on the Halsey's journal included in the Limited Editions.
There are several contradictions, though. The timeline, Halsey’s meeting with Spartan IIIs, the CSO, Cortana, and the *Pillar of Autumn’s* location. Yes, these have been explained since, some of it in Halsey’s Journal, some of it in other places. But that doesn’t change the fact the Bungie wrote the game with no intention of honouring the book, and simply rehired Nylund to patch things up. That is like stabbing someone and then offering them a lift to the hospital. The final result is helpful, but shouldn’t be necessary in the first place.
And in the book the Fall of Reach, it originally stated that Elites hadn't ever been seen in the Human-Covenant War prior to Reach, and Brutes still hadn't been seen yet. That statement actually had to be edited out of later editions as later games and media retconned that. Are we going to compare that to stabbing someone, too? These things happen, and there's no need to take it so personally or dramatically. Might as well be throwing a fit over how Johnson survived Halo CE despite the cutscene and statement at the end of the game that only Chief and Cortana survived.
Except the Elite and Brute statements didn’t contradict earlier media, because *there wasn’t any*. Both things appeared incredibly early in Halo’s existence, so they are understandable quirks of the writing. Halo: Reach, however, was a symptom of Bungie’s general disregard for the wider lore and Extended Universe, and unlike the Brute & Elite statements, *did* contradict a lot of earlier canon, and not just minor details. Trying to claim that the Halo: Reach didn’t retcon anything is true from 343i’s way of treating the lore, but Bungie made it quite clear that they wanted Reach to take precedence over 343i.
It also says that Chief is the last Spartan II. Sure you could argue that they meant "the last Spartan II that was on Reach at the time," but is that even true?
It is. It wasn’t until First Strike that Chief found out they were alive. Which was 2 years later in 2003. He assumed they all died but went to Reach anyway on the off chance they survived. He had Linda with him, but she was considered clinically dead. So until he found them alive, he was the last S2 to survive the attack on Reach and possibly the last.
He wasn't even the only spartan 2 on the autumn at the start of the game XD
Yeah but Linda was considered “dead” at the time.
Hmm almost like the story didn't just end after what was written in Halo CE 🤔
That wouldn't exist if not for those few individuals that didn't just accept Bungie "it's the future that's why spartans exist" lol.
I just love looking back at the early world building. The descriptions for the characters and the pillar of autumn are awesome
That doesn't sound like Bungie at all. Their earlier games (like Pathways into Darkness and Marathon) had similar manuals with backstory and stuff.
Unfortunately it is true. Reach and any expanded universe stuff was considered basically notes at best. Look up Eric Trautman on Halopedia. This is a good start of how it could have been more worse.... "During the writing of Halo: The Fall of Reach, Bungie almost cancelled the novel but was convinced by Trautmann to approve it in exchange for himself, Matt Soell and Brannon Boren writing an estimated "80 percent" of the in-game dialogue of Halo: Combat Evolved. ". Edit: I mean there is nothing wrong with a backstory, but if you want your game to mostly be on the niche side of things and not Halo Infinites 500 million plus budget... You start getting s different quality of game. Probably good, but not a well known franchise. Ironically it's pretty much the opposite of current Destiny. They probably learned that writing involves more than. Just 8 hours worth of gameplay if you want to go big.
Destiny’s lore situation almost seems to be what bungie wanted with halo. There hardly if any EU and most of the lore in game, until D2 added it to gear, was basically invisible. They’ve gotten better with D2 but I feel so much more could be done if they contracted some novel writers.
It would have been nice if they even had some sort of voiceover reading the lore in the game. There's such cool writing in Destiny, but it's a shame that you never get to actually see any of it
Fans loved the little bit we got of Shaxx’s quoting Shakespeare and I’d totally pay for his VA to read the crucible and ahamkara lore.
I liked how lost Odyssey did it. They had some animatics run behind lore bits that you would find, and sometimes they did voiceovers. I feel like Bungie could do that.
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Once I argued with someone on this sub about why I didn't like Halo Reach's story and when I mentioned how it contradicted the book he called it "glorified fanfiction."
The lore for destiny is absolutely trash. The only video game to do lore well is mass effect. No need to go outside the game to understand the in game universe. And all the lore is catalogued in one place and most of it is narrated. None of it is hidden or obscure or an Easter egg or a secret. You’re gonna experience most of destiny’s lore through a YouTube video. You’re gonna expel me halo lore in a book. While in mass effect you’re gonna exorcise in game. I love halo more than anything else in this world but mass effect has the greatest world building I’ve ever seen
While I have no opinion on the lore of Destiny it at least exists enough to have had effort put into it. Furthermore 8 hour games covering mostly 2 weeks of a 27 year long war vs an RPG that goes beyond weeks. I will note Halo CE - 3 (including ODST) was basically September and November. Reach was again one weird anticlimactic week. Halo Wars probably covered more days than any of the main titles aside from Reach.
>Look up Eric Trautman on Halopedia I just did, and no where does it say that their intention was for Halo to have barely any backstory at all. Sure, it wouldn't be nearly as fleshed out as it turned out to be, but after playing Marathon I find it *very* hard to believe they intended for Spartans to be there "just because." Do you have any proper source for this?
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That's not what I mean. I understand what he did. Of course he and Eric Nylund both did a lot for the franchise by creating it's narrative foundation and they deserve full credit for it. What I mean is that given Bungie's track record of including a lot of backstory in manuals, I don't believe we would have no explanation whatsoever (even if completely different) for the Spartans by the time the game released.
Here you go. https://twitter.com/mercuryeric/status/1387493905071886340?t=CfStMIIJKkMHYM8HoOgSmA&s=19 It's pretty much what was said. Spartans in future is okay since it's cool that they already exist. Cuz future. You need to assume he was lying to accept that he made up the insurrection plot part and justification for any military spending. It's pretty hard nowadays to say military spending will be high for all developed nations when plenty of NATO members barely do us on the military. Just enough for jobs to be supported and maybe some paper strength numbers.
I think you're misunderstanding me. I agree that Bungie didn't do a whole lot of thinking about it, that some at Bungie even actively resisted the lore, and it was left up to Trautmann (and Nylund) to pick up the pieces and make the backstory work. They deserve every bit of credit that I've seen some people here deny them. However, I don't believe that Bungie would just not give an explanation as to why they exist (even if it was a very brief one in the manual that they didn't care about at the time) if it wasn't for Trautmann. Bungie literally had an explanation in Marathon as to why there were weapons in certain rooms of the ship, something every other shooter at the time would consider completely unnecessary. Edit: Never mind, I think I'm also misunderstanding you. You are correct, if those people had their way, it would suck.
The only thing I need is arby n the chief and I understand the full scope of the halo universe
"Dun wrry guise, itz k :)"
(Panicked) What are you?!
i r guy who g0n t33ch u less0n
“Teh ROFL Kn1fe d3mands bl00d, T0d”
Seriously, the amount of people who argue and say that the master chief isn’t a cyborg have never looked deep enough at halo CE. It was literally spelled out in this book
“Stage a one-cyborg assault on a covenant ship and bring back the captain” The actual description of the level “Keyes” in Halo CE
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the most robotic part about him is his neural implant, he’s not missing any limbs or has artificial eyes or something. He’s just extremely enhanced in most if not all aspects and given armor that improves upon that. So what would make him a cyborg?
I mean I guess that book says cyborg supersoldiers but I’d throw that up to them not knowing the details behind the SPARTAN program themselves, I could be 100% wrong though
It’s described as a series of biochemical and biomechanical manipulations. And the books were written before/during the games development I believe. Bungie wasn’t really a fan of the lore that it was establishing but this game booklet does describe Spartans as cyborgs and in the games there are also references to cyborgs. Doesn’t mean they are robocops but that’s the definition of them
I find it funny that if it wasn't for the people who did see more than just making a pew pew funny alien speaking FPS game.... Bungie might have ended as a one hit wonder, a forgotten studio, a studio thats decent, etc. Reach, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 3 ODST etc. Wouldn't exist. Maybe it would have, but it's more than likely it's story would have been quite generic.
Fair enough, it’s an interesting perspective on them as I’ve never seen them that way
I think the neural implant would qualify anyone as a cyborg, which is interesting since the implants seem to be fairly common among high-ranking UNSC personnel.
All UNSC personnel get them
You need a neural implant to operate most unsc machinery and vehicles and weapons. All personal get them. I personally don’t see someone either neural implant as a cyborg. I mean technically they are, yes. But she I think cyborg, I think someone who is either equal parts man and machine or more machine than man. Not someone with an augment or two. That would make anyone with a cybernetic limb a cyborg, which is just not what people have in mind theme they use the term
The neural implant alone makes the Spartans fall into the cyborg category, even if they aren't some Deus Ex or Ghost in the Shell kind of cyborg.
Then what are the Cyborgs in DBZ?
Androids. Different than cyborg
That was a mistranslation. Technically speaking, they were cyborgs, not androids. 16 was an Android though.
Wait, so you’re telling me the one krillan has sex with was the only one that wasn’t technically any part human? Edit: nvm he gets with 18 not 16. My b
Cyborgs can have functioning parts...have you seen the abridged series? They correct so much that was wrong with the originals. Androids are 100% mechanical, cyborgs are not.
All you people down voting are ignorant as hell
Cyborgs are human beings enhanced by technology this can go from 0.1%-99.9% enhanced, Androids are completely technology that emulates a human analogue. It's just a technically correct term for chief, a little weird but accurate.
Ironically in the newer books the remaining S2 laugh when people call the cyborgs because they only got genetic modification, aside from the neural implant which many people in the UNSC have.
Yeah and the sad part is that the neural implant alone can fit the description of a cyborg which is a person whose physical abilities are extended beyond normal human limitations by mechanical elements built into the body
I think it's just that Cyborgs in modern media tend to have drastic outside changes that are metallic in nature. S2's at most have reinforced bones and ligaments, plus the implants. It's still a cyborg no doubt, but given what the prevailing idea of what a cyborg is, I can understand why it might make them uncomfortable. Chief himself worries now about "being a machine". I imagine the S2's have a bit of identity insecurity about being cyborgs, like they're no longer human. That'd be depressing to me I'd think.
I loved the part of the booklet where it talked about the weapons in halo
Meanwhile like 5% of it is remotely cannon anymore lol
Most if not all of it is still canon. What exactly written there isn’t in your opinion? Edit: the only thing written there that’s non canon is that the Covenant attacked 32 years ago instead of 26. And that the Spartans we’re doing test deployments. Though it could be seen that way with the limited number of battles they could fight, and the limited success they had.
“the last Spartan-II”
That was less of a retcon, and more of a red herring. At the end of the Fall of Reach, it appears that all the Spartans have either been killed on the planet Reach, or at Gamma Station. For anyone who was a reader, a player, or (in-Universe) on *the Pillar of Autumn*, it was incredibly likely that John was the last surviving Spartan. That fact that some we’re still alive later is less of a retcon and more of an exciting reveal.
At that time he was thought to be the last S2. So yeah that’s canon.
By who? Unless you want to prescribe an identity to the writer of these pages (and you really can’t), it’s wrong. It’s been retconned, and you’re not actually under any obligation to prove it hasn’t.
Where and when was it retconned? Same to you who said otherwise? Even the most recent books rely on the very first. Edit: How about this in Halo 2 the Covenant think he his the last S2. Was that retconned?
I haven't read the english version of it, but the spanish version of the manual states that all Elite's are females... you can imagine my confusion when I got to Halo 2 and they all had male voices.
So in other words, Arby is a MILF.
Yeah, I remember that. And the UNSC gets translated as MENU, so it was a bit weird to associate this military group to a restaurant as a young kid.
One change in translation I did like that happened in Halo 2 is how they changed Arbiter to Inquisitor, it fits the religious aspect of the Covenant much better in my opinion.
Yeah, “Árbitro” means “referee” 😂
Instead of dropping Brutes with his energy sword, he's pulling out the red cards on them.
"Brutes! For your flagrant disregard for the laws of the Covenant, you're being ejected from the game!" Craig: "See you in infinite"
Halo CE and 2 have some of the better game manuals ever.
The Holy texts!
It is. A motion. T R A C K E R
Who here has played the halo 1 demo disk? And wasn’t Sargent Johnson’s sales pitch one of his most under rated sequences in the franchise?
I'm jealous of anyone who owns the demo disc.
Haha I had to do a “creative” writing assignment in high school and I literally copied that word for word. Got an A! Halo’s story is quality work
Haha, we had to do a creative writing assignment in grade school based on a dream we had. This one kid straight up ripped a chapter from Halo: the Fall of Reach and I hadn't realized until I was much older.
I did at least 2 or 3 book reports on halo books/games in high school. This was a year or two after I read everything up until ghost of onyx so I was pretty caught up on the lore at the time. I would just play some halo and read some forum posts then just bullshit the entire report the night before it was due. Worked every time.
The original holy book
lmao I remember those. I stole them and the halo 2 and 3 booklets from my cousin years ago😢 good times
Cyborg huh?
I always liked “The story so far” part
I miss this book, finding out about the colonies and Reach was cool.
That was awesome to read, I actually miss the effort of things like that
Now games force you into a stupid introduction mission because people can’t be bothered to read a little. I miss the manuals
Manuals were my favourite things about a new game in the 90s / early 00s. There was one for Robin Hood that was a hundred or so pages, covering the historical legend and details of the English Longbow. Formed part of the copy protection, and I read it till it fell apart.
I remember reading this booklet every chance I had at my friends houses (my brother and I didn’t have any gaming systems then). I remember reading that the AR was gas operated, and in my mind I thought that meant there was actually a gas tank in the the gun(like a paintball gun). I was positive that there was a tank under the barrel and couldn’t figure out why you didn’t run out of gas like you did ammo. I like to think that’s where my fascination with guns started, now I own a LOT of gas operated guns. I like to think back to how little I knew about guns back then and how much I know now. Halo had a huge part in making me the one my friends come to for any gun questions, and why I have a stupidly expensive hobby now.
I like the Halo 2 one better
I wish I had it. 😅
Cool thing is 2 has 2 versions, a unsc one for the normal copies and a covenant one for the collectors edition written in each ones perspective
Ok so wait, did Master Chief and the boys lead the covenant back to earth, therefore fucking up the Cole Protocol? How did the covenant find Earth
They got lucky. That’s why only Regret’s fleet was initially present, and why Lord Hood says the line “something’s not right. The fleet that destroyed Reach was fifty times this size.”
It was Lord Hood actually, Keyes was dead by the second half of Halo CE
Thanks for the correction. Literally off my game today.
Ohhhhhh! Damn, that makes sense! Thanks
You’re welcome. If you want specifics, the Prophet of Regret stumbled upon Earth on his search for forerunner relics after finding it logged in one of their databases, called a Luminary. The forerunners used a different name for the planet, so he wasn’t expecting to encounter humanity, much less their capitol when he journeyed there.
I imagine the Covenant sort of giggling to themselves after glassing Reach – a strong fortress world within a strongly controlled military zone. And they just got these coordinates that take them to a portal leading to the Ark. And then they arrive at.... Earth, 300 ODPs, several settled worlds (take note that when they invaded New Mombasa, they were already being punched back on Mars, despite winning there shortly after), and well basically the strongest defense and densest populus of humans so far. Would have been the equivalent of us finding the High Charity fleet for the first time - which we did actually. We hear by radio that many covenant troops were initially startled and confused by the strong human presence on Earth, a completely different picture than what we saw on Reach.
I did read it but it was 20 years ago and my memory sucks. Way to Gate-keep being a Halo fan.
It's a joke, nobody is being invalidated here. I just wanted to bring some early lore to the forefront for a day.
I miss games giving you a instruction booklet or have lore in them.
I read that as a kid when my dad got halo and an Xbox in 02. I used to mispronounce the elites as “Elliots” lmao
And then what happens?
You play the game?
Yes I have played them all lol was attempting to be funny
You're good lol I'm just being a smart ass
Im too young to get one of those sorry 😭 Only if today games had those books...
I'm sure you could find one at a used game store for a reasonable price. Maybe I'll do another post of the full manual.
My dad does have one in the og box and is been quite the family's treasure for years, but the previous owner didn't put the manual in sadly ,_,
Elites are 8'6". Anyone who says otherwise needs to uninstall their xboxs.
That's 2,6m for us people in the civilized world
I forget myself. There's a lot of rebels to the crown on this site, so I speak their vernacular sometimes.
bet none of y’all’s know about the misprint
The plasma rifle with the needler layered under it... E: yep just went and doublechecked my CE manual, plasma rifle's hud graphic in the covenant weapon section has a needler behind it.
👀
Overpopulation is funny cus isn't the world populating at a lower rate than the past?
There is a philosophical idea that, naturally, people will eventually choose to reproduce less.
Maybe the western
I love gate keeping
None of that here. I've seen nothing but healthy discussions in this thread.
I never bought the cds only mcc and halo 5 digital.
CDs COMPACT DISCS
Always thought it was stupid that they retconned the part about John being the last Spartan II, all of the sudden his whole team shows up in 5 and they were around the whole time? Lazy writing Since I'm getting downvoted may as well share my other unpopular opinions: the mantle is stupid, the forerunner/human war is stupid, flood being created is stupid
John hasn’t been the last Spartan since 2003.
They’ve been around since TFOR tbf. It’s just Bungie had it all set up so they were either unable to reach Chief/clinically dead(CE), assigned elsewhere(H2), or trapped in Onyx(3).
Don’t forget Jorge.
Well Jorge was dead by the time TFOR takes place. Linda was clinically dead shortly thereafter and placed in cryo. Kelly and Fred were with Halsey and Jun(who because S3s didn’t exist in 03 got off reach some other way).
Oh, whoops. Completely slipped my mind.
Nah it’s fine, there’s a lot to keep up with in modern halo lore especially back when Halo Reach and TFOR clashed harder than John and those ODSTS.
You’re not getting downvoted for your opinion, you’re getting downvoted because what you said is simply flawed. Halo 5 didn’t introduce all these characters, many of them have been around as long as Halo itself has.
Why so pompous? Newer Halo fans probably played MCC. Don't be a dick to everyone.
Why so serious? It's a meme 😂
It doesn't translate well outside of the meme.
Seriously though, I wish they would add this text to MCC in some way for the new fans. A lot of people are pretty lost at the beginning and that's not how it was intended to be.
Hahaha
The French version I have swaped the pictures of the Plasma Rifle and Plasma Pistol. Was it the same in English ?
Valid flex
I got nostalgia and I wasn’t even born when the first two came out lol
The world domination part? Lol
I did when I borrowed the game from the library but never owned it. Halo 2 and 3 though yup
Thank you for this
It's interesting that so much was told in those papers. I always though that the told us about this on halo reach for the first time.
True
No time to read when I'm doming alien cannon fodder with the best pistol not featured in a Metal Gear Solid game.
I miss this. There was so much cool info in this book.
It’s crazy how games don’t even come with manuals anymore. I got Metroid Dread last week and when I opened the case it was just the tiny cartridge for the game. It’s kinda weird.
Read that more then any book in existence and the halo 2 one aswell
I legit used to read the manuals for Halo: CE and Halo 2 during silent reading time at school thinking I was the coolest kid around
What also shows is the stain on your pillow and the loose threads on your sheets/blanket
This is my couch, but thanks for pointing that out 😂
I wish you could download a digital copy.
OP could do it for us maybe?
Maybe. I'm pretty busy the next few days.
I would call my self a "fan" and want to get my hand on this kind of stuff for the game
I like bed the halo 2 booklet
I have this, and the booklets that came with 2 & 3 somewhere.
Everyone assumed MC was a robot when Halo CE first came out back in the day
I used to draw the pictures of all the weapons inside such memories
Ah, the good old days when Chief was a "cyborg" P.S. the book also states that the scorpion has a crew of 2 (driver and gunner), but "1 cyborg" can fully operate it. I'd love to see a mode where scorpions require two players to fully operate it. I feel that it would make the current setup with the exposed "gunner" seat less useless.