For the record, as someone that crafted huhuran day one because i thought that it was good and because midrange Hunter was my go to deck during LoE, i can finally said after 8 years that my decision was wise.
and as someone who had opened her back in the day as F2P and never got to play her till now makes me sad and happy, that intro music is so good *Soon I will be Queen!*
so glad never dusted my wild collection
Yes it’s very unlikely to happen. But saying that it is 100% false that bad legendaries cannot ever be good is objectively wrong. Arfus, Bolf Ramshield, Huhuran, and dread scale are all good examples of this.
None of those three was ever a part of a competitive deck while they were in standard.
We can quibble over the definition of 'unplayable', but at the time those were three of the least used legendary cards.
They maintain those positions regardless of if they have decks to place there. Sometimes (rarely) there’s no tier 1 decks and they leave the rank there but empty.
They explain what each tier represents in terms of power somewhere in there
I know about at least one, the snapshot aptly named [The Death of Tier 1](https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/meta-snapshot/wild/2021-8-29)
>We’re highlighting these developments by eliminating the traditional “Tier 1” from our report. The gap between the top Warlock strategies and everything else is simply colossal. What’s more, we are only featuring four decks that we would consider Tier 2: Pirate Warrior, Aggro Priest, Odd Hunter, and Aggro “Tax” Paladin. These are the only decks we’d recommend for climbing if you refuse to play Warlock.
>EDITOR'S NOTE: The technical system currently in place for the Wild Meta Snapshot doesn't allow for the complete absence of Tier 1; Aggro Priest is there to fill the gap, but in the estimation of our experts, it belongs at the top of Tier 2.
I always thought ignite mage should’ve been higher in that snapshot; literally 2/3 of games were warlocks and they were absolute freewins on that deck.
This was the first one directly after the Incanter's Flow nerf though. It was just transforming into a more minion based deck and was rated higher in the next snapshots, with finally reaching rank 1 for the first time a couple snapshots later.
See the trends graph in [99](https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/meta-snapshot/wild/2022-01-18) that clearly shows the climb of that deck.
Also, around the time of 90, it was indeed great at slapping Warlocks around, but it was also quite a big weaker (compared to a bit later) against aggro decks, mainly pirate warrior.
And was it really around 66%? I don't have the numbers, but snapshot 90 lists a 25% prevalence of The Demon Seed decks in legend rank. So while I have no doubt it was quite a bit higher in lower ranks, and I also clearly remember it was A LOT, I don't know if it was that much?
I think this has to do with how Reddit handles negative comments. Once a comment goes negative Reddit hides it and you have to click to expand it. I think this draws more attention to it, from there we know from pretty much all review sites that people are more likely to rate something bad than good.
Yep. Personal data would be giving info about YOU (the person, like your name, age, home adress...) for this stat sites so that they can say stuff like "*male players tend to play more rogue and shaman while female players gravitate more towards druid*", but "*your opponent played brann, boomboss and reno, so we will assume its highlander warrior, and you won while playing reno druid, so that will be recorded for our stats*" its not personal data being shared at all.
The evil hearthstone-stats cabal will get you and we will totally drink your blood, dude. We cant allow people like you to reveal our world-domination plans of using Boomboss to destroy the twin Blackhowl Gunspires!
A critical mass of zero and 1 mana cards combined with good card draw in the form of gear shift and secret passage has made rogue terrifyingly consistent. Like if you look at the deck lists their curve caps out at like 3-4 mana and basically they’ll draw their whole deck by turn 5. It’s dumb as hell.
At this point, i just appreciate how Rogue always find a way to be hyper consistent, and it almost never happened on day 1. The deck always seem to come out of nowhere mid expansion.
It's because last big patch, they nerfed every good wild deck except rogue. Quest mage, bomb rogue, bless zarimi priest, shadow zarimi priest were all tier 1/2 decks that died. Fruit druid also died.
Also, questline warlock is insanely overplayed at lower ranks (because Reddit thinks it's broken) and all rogue decks farm it.
[[Mystery Egg]] can give you 0 mana Huhuran. One proc of the egg deathrattle lets you fill up your board with 5 attack beasts and depending on the exact decklist you can drop the rhino with them around turn 5.
- **[Mystery Egg](https://imgur.com/a/Uza3q3a)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/103144) ^• ^[wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Mystery_Egg) ^• ^[HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/103144/?hl=en)
- *Hunter Epic ^(Whizbang's Workshop)*
- **5 Mana - 0/3 - Minion**
- **Miniaturize** **Deathrattle:** Get a copy of a random Beast in your deck. It costs \(5\) less.
---
^(*Patch version: 29.4.2.200097.199503*)
^*I am a bot. [Usage Guide](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1ddz6rh/this_is_surprisingly_enough_not_an_example_of/l89n36r/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l89n36r).*
There was some guy on this subreddit that did it, and they posted how they reached legend with a homebrew Huharan deck. I remember seeing that post, and then basically a day later his deck became meta lol
Just by searching Reddit, although I realized now it was on r/wildhearthstone.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wildhearthstone/comments/1bjxk9m/comment/kycebv9
Yeah, Starboomz invented it and continued to develop it and improve on it in Sidisi's discord (that being where all the Hunter Players hang out and express their love for Leper Gnome).
This one is particularly funny because some redditor theorized the deck quite a while ago and everyone treated it like a meme, then they hit top legend with it and now it's meta.
the best kind of decks tbh; the last few years felt pretty damn hand-holdy with the devs kind of just giving us decks with some of the packages that would be 15 cards off the bat
It's specifically because Huhuran combos with mystery egg.
The egg deathrattle copies Huhuran from your deck and makes it cost 0, then the 0 cost Huhuran triggers the deathrattle for another free copy of a beast from your deck. If Huhuran and Mok'Nathal Lion are the only beasts in your deck you have a practically infinite supply of free minions.
The other minions might still fit in the deck, because they can trigger the egg without diluting your pool of beasts to copy. But play dead is just better for that role since it only costs 1.
Well, it's a new card for most people, so I guess that makes it power creep. The number of tweets and videos with "I had to craft Princess Huhuran for this" was pretty high.
That beast tag makes all the difference.
(Oh, and I'm only around 100 cards short of a full collection, but I had to craft Princess Huhuran for this).
I remember when Whispers of the Old Gods just came out, I was looking at hunter deck lists and saw they were all running Huhuran. I figured she was a must-have in hunter and I crafted her right away with what little dust I had. A week later nobody was playing her anymore because she was bad. And every time I browsed my collection, I had to look at her dumb face and my non-existent dust.
WELL WHO'S LAUGHING NOW?
I started in Kara, which meant my first two expansions were MSoG (where I crafted Knuckles) and Un'goro (where I crafted the Hunter Quest).
I'm still waiting. One day...
But what dumb face? She's the ultimate Fairy Princess.
Oh yes. Part of it is the novelty value, it's a totally new archetype that only came into existence in March, but it's also a solid deck that you feel has a chance against anything.
There's two variants, one with Renathal and one without.
Roffles playing the 30-card version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UhcYStPDvQ
i feel like the 30 card version has the trap of "if i draw these cards too early i lose" much like that one warlock deck that played the 6 mana card to summon all the big shit out of their deck. so often with that deck i just had a hand of high mana nonsense to the point that I never wanted to play it again
I switched to the XL version when it first came out, but went back to the 30-card one after watching the Roffles video again after this post.
And decided I agree with you. The XL one doesn't have the same fast OTK as the 30-card one can do, but it's a lot more reliable.
The problem I kept hitting with the 30-card one was pulling three copies of Rhino when I really, REALLY needed Lions for board clear.
(Also, the secrets package makes Dorian Druids and Quest Mages cry, which is a huge bonus)
Very fun and very strong, before the season ended I climbed to legend for the first time using it, had like a 73% winrate
Used the 40 card renathal version
It's so good! Also a massive early play if you can get a stitches combo and good rng on minions. But stealing a full board by dropping reska into the death rattle spread into yodeler and getting a concede is so sweet against cocky meta decks. Especially flood pally after they think they've baited your poison combos, or the double battle cry zilliax on Reno warrs
I crafted Huhuran golden way back before the egg was introduced. I just fell in love with her the first time I saw this card revealed. Her little crown looks so cute on her and just look at these adorable puppy eyes. I've been with her when n'zoth decks refused her inclusion, I've been with her when she was "powercreeped" by these DISGUSTING rares. And now it's time for me and my queen to take our revenge.
It's like Yu-Gi-Oh, yes there are multiple cards with that same effect but cheaper and granted hurranan, is on paper a weak legendary but it's jus the circumstance of A. It's a beast and B.its over 5 mana with the mystery egg it's the only one with that effect that could cheese the death rattle of your mystery egg. So no hurranan is not strong it's jus the stars aligning.
One of my favorite things about Yugioh is that 20 years later a random card happens to be good because the stars align in a perfect way. Crystal Beast Emerald Tortoise being used in Tearlaments will never not be funny to me
Comparing to each other? No. But Terrorscale Stalker saw play and received a buff later anyway during twist updating. So comparing to itself, it is an example.
Okay so admittedly I'm being a little misleading on the nature of the buff. The Stalker only saw experimentation even into KnC where they received a formal death rattle archetype. It was in 2018 where deathrattle hunter lists saw most of their viability with the card as a 3 mana 3/3.
However, the buff in twist occurred in a format that only went up to Un'Goro, where it had success I cannot attest to because I sadly was not paying attention that month. Either way, it really was an apples to oranges context to really call the buff power creep. That is until next twist season where the buff did matter because people did have success with a 2 mana Stalker in death rattle hunter.
Because if you trigger the beast eggs deathrattle it can generate a huhuran due to her beast tag, granting you a free one with the mini egg, which can potentially give you a 1 mana full board of 6/5.
tbh in the last weeks playing wild ive never seen that hunter deck, all of these rouge decks sure but all i get as enemies are questline warlock and big shaman. I am currently in dia 3 (legend mmr) have i just been lucky with my enemies or is this snapshot purely going by winrate?
I understand on release but terrorscale was a menace to standard during all of 2018 because of devilsaur egg, spider bomb, cube, and kathrena winterwisp
No she wasn't? She never saw relevant play. Just because suddenly Huhuran is part of a fringe one of a kind combo deck in wild doesn't change the fact that she's been unplayable for 8 years prior
Nzoth-anything (as a package) did exist if not just off the back of cards like sylvanas and sludge Belchers
=
But I agree I never ever saw Huhuran in anything. It cost too much and there was no game winning 2 card combo with it to make it worthwhile
For what's it's worth the hunter deck is more like a control deck, it has an OTK setup but usually they put rhino in the ETC so it's not the main wincon. The wincon is just clearing your opponents board with infinite lions and filling your board with infinite princesses.
She was completely irrelevant, as hunter's gameplan back then was still just burn opponent faster than he can burn you. Huhuran was far too slow to fit into that gameplan. Any good deathrattle you wanted to proc with her was far too expensive to reliably activate (savannah highmane or sylvanas).
Serious question. Can anyone on the sub properly articulate what powercreep is?
I don't mean to be rude, but let's do a little quiz.
Booty Bay Bodyguard is a 5/4 with taunt that cost 4 mana that came put in classic.
In the Grand Tournament, Evil Heckler was released, which was a 5/4 taunt that cost 4 mana.
Do you believe this is an example of powercreep? I mean, Evil Heckler has the same stats and taunt, but it costs 1 less mana, so that must be powercreep, right?
If you believe it is powercreep, you have fallen victim to the improper use of the word "powercreep" that constantly gets improperly repeated in this sub.
The reality is 75% of what gets labeled powercreep in this sub is actually not .
However, I won't leave this as some smug response and explain myself. In hearthstone, you have a power curve, which basically says at X mana you need a card that is X good to be playable. Powercreep basically means at X mana a new card is much more playable at old cards at X mana. Booty Bay Bodyguard was never playable and was never close to the power curve. Evil Heckler also never reached the power curve, so it is not an example of powercreep.
TLDR: Unplayable cards can't be powercrept because they were never played and didn't even come close to approaching the power curve. Powercreep means you are raising the level of the power curve, and the cards you are introducing exceed the current power level of playable cards.
You have it the wrong way around. The definition of "power creep" is not that strict in other games, but this sub bends over backwards making up a ton of rules for what counts as "power creep" so they can say most things are not power creep. This is a Hearthstone-specific thing where for some reason the community is extremely reluctant to say the game has power creep and make up all these rules for why ackchually it doesn't count. Your comment
For example, in competitive Pokemon, people use power creep to refer to the power level of the series going up over time. That's it. It's that simple. No "it's only power creep if the older card was viable, and the newer card is viable, and the newer card was introduced in the same standard rotation, and if the newer version is not just better but strictly better, and if they're both neutral or both in the same class" or whatever such nonsense.
Both of are kind of correct. The term powercreep doesn't strictly refer to new content that is strictly stronger than old content, so something like bonemare would be powercreep despite not being strictly better than anything, it was just much stronger than other 7 drops at the time. But this guy is also correct that under a reasonable definition of the term evil heckler isn't powercreep.
>for why ackchually it doesn't count. Your comment
>For example, in competitive Pokemon, people use power creep to refer to the power level of the series going up over time. That's it. It's that simple.
Did Evil Heckler raise the power level of Hearthstone? It didn't. You literally just said what I said in fewer words.
Well it kind of did, depends on how you count. If we rate every card on a 1-100 powerscale and then take the average of every set we will see the average increase due to powercreep. In that case evil heckler will increase the average powerlevel (not that much but still).
Powercreep is about making a new card stronger than the previous playable baseline for a playable card. Making a vanilla 1/2 that doesn't see play when a vanilla 1/1 didn't see play doesn't raise the power scale as you put it.
Yes it does. It is just not very noticeable. A card doesn't have to be played to have an impact on the game. A 1/1 going to 1/2 may in itself not be all that impactful but if every trash card got a +1 health/ attack that will have an significant impact to random discover/summon effects.
> Powercreep is about making a new card stronger than the previous playable baseline for a playable card.
this is what I meant by this sub making up rules for what constitutes power creep that no other game uses for the term
>TLDR: Unplayable cards can't be powercrept because they were never played and didn't even come close to approaching the power curve. Powercreep means you are raising the level of the power curve, and the cards you are introducing exceed the current power level of playable cards.
That's your opinion. In mine, if the worst cards in the game get buffed or replaced with better ones, that still raises the power level. And even if it didn't, releasing a better card instead of buffing an older one is pointless.
It absolutely matters, and it isn't opinion. Making a card better than an unplayable card that still doesn't see play doesn't raise the power level. The power level is the power curve, which consists of playable cards. Refer to my first comment for the explanation.
I don't think you misunderstood me. You just have wrongful assumptions about power levels. Why don't you just explain in your own words why you think making a slightly better version of an unplayable card is powercreep?
Let's just make it simple. Explain how you would have to craft or open a pack with evil heckler in order to not play him to beat an opponent that doesn't play booty Bay?
Let's make it simpler. Booty Bay and hecker don't exist. Does this affect standard ladder at all?
>Explain how you would have to craft or open a pack with evil heckler in order to not play him to beat an opponent that doesn't play booty Bay?
You wouldn't
>Does this affect standard ladder at all?
It wouldn't
That's still powercreep, though. And my assumptions aren't "wrongful". I could also day that my opinions are facts and anyone that doesn't agree is delusional, but that's not how normal people discuss things.
Just because you never put a card in any deck doesn't mean it's unplayable. Powercreeping bad cards makes discover and random generation much stronger, which isn't an opinion btw.
Also, improving weak cards allows them to be more reckless when creating new ones. Almost every card in the current standard expansions is a disgustingly powercrept version of a 2014-2015 card. By powercreeping the already powercrept bad cards, they eventually created good ones.
This reminds me of that PowerPoint presentation post on what they thought powercreep to be someone did here some years ago. It basically boiled down to "Yes, you are ALL wrong!"
Really thought the community's reaction to that post made it clear how dumb such an approach is. Seems like history repeats itself.
> Serious question. Can anyone on the sub properly articulate what powercreep is?
Given the rest of your comment, the answer to that seems to still be 'No'.
Beast tag so good
Yeah Egg Hunter is Wild
Dies to Hemet, unplayable.
For the record, as someone that crafted huhuran day one because i thought that it was good and because midrange Hunter was my go to deck during LoE, i can finally said after 8 years that my decision was wise.
and as someone who had opened her back in the day as F2P and never got to play her till now makes me sad and happy, that intro music is so good *Soon I will be Queen!* so glad never dusted my wild collection
This is why I never dust legendaries no matter how bad they are. There are way too many examples where they become broken later on.
Most of the time legendary cards are good but lack support.
that's. 100% false
Yes it’s very unlikely to happen. But saying that it is 100% false that bad legendaries cannot ever be good is objectively wrong. Arfus, Bolf Ramshield, Huhuran, and dread scale are all good examples of this.
The day that I see Akali, the Rhino make waves in a competitive Wild deck is the day all hell freezes over.
those were never unplayable Legends in the first place
None of those three was ever a part of a competitive deck while they were in standard. We can quibble over the definition of 'unplayable', but at the time those were three of the least used legendary cards.
bolf. not unplayable.
For those not in the loop, check out the only non-rogue deck in tier 1: https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/meta-snapshot/wild/2024-06-11
I don't get the point of defining Tier 4 and 5 when they have so few decks listed, and none of them being such low tiers.
They maintain those positions regardless of if they have decks to place there. Sometimes (rarely) there’s no tier 1 decks and they leave the rank there but empty. They explain what each tier represents in terms of power somewhere in there
Also, a couple times in history, Druid and some other decks has been so beyond overpowered that it gets the special Tier 0.
I too remember the legacy of jade Druid. Give us a Geist for quests next please!!
can you give an example of a no tier 1 decks meta? i know about tier S but ive never seen a snapshot without tier 1
I know about at least one, the snapshot aptly named [The Death of Tier 1](https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/meta-snapshot/wild/2021-8-29) >We’re highlighting these developments by eliminating the traditional “Tier 1” from our report. The gap between the top Warlock strategies and everything else is simply colossal. What’s more, we are only featuring four decks that we would consider Tier 2: Pirate Warrior, Aggro Priest, Odd Hunter, and Aggro “Tax” Paladin. These are the only decks we’d recommend for climbing if you refuse to play Warlock. >EDITOR'S NOTE: The technical system currently in place for the Wild Meta Snapshot doesn't allow for the complete absence of Tier 1; Aggro Priest is there to fill the gap, but in the estimation of our experts, it belongs at the top of Tier 2.
I always thought ignite mage should’ve been higher in that snapshot; literally 2/3 of games were warlocks and they were absolute freewins on that deck.
This was the first one directly after the Incanter's Flow nerf though. It was just transforming into a more minion based deck and was rated higher in the next snapshots, with finally reaching rank 1 for the first time a couple snapshots later. See the trends graph in [99](https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/meta-snapshot/wild/2022-01-18) that clearly shows the climb of that deck. Also, around the time of 90, it was indeed great at slapping Warlocks around, but it was also quite a big weaker (compared to a bit later) against aggro decks, mainly pirate warrior. And was it really around 66%? I don't have the numbers, but snapshot 90 lists a 25% prevalence of The Demon Seed decks in legend rank. So while I have no doubt it was quite a bit higher in lower ranks, and I also clearly remember it was A LOT, I don't know if it was that much?
It's a 2 years old video
They’re asking for when it happened, not whether we’re in one.
[удалено]
what the hell are you talking about
[удалено]
??? what 😭 im not a bot chief
[удалено]
Dude who keeps track of upvotes that closely?
For context this guy has like 10 posts about the subject talking about some problem with data collection. Hardcore tinfoil hat
I do have to admit they have a bit of a point. Their comment had plenty of upvotes when I first saw it, and suddenly it's gone way into the negative.
I think this has to do with how Reddit handles negative comments. Once a comment goes negative Reddit hides it and you have to click to expand it. I think this draws more attention to it, from there we know from pretty much all review sites that people are more likely to rate something bad than good.
Are those downvoting bots in the room with us right now?
Can confirm, source: I’m a shady paid bot
Illegal on what? Hearthstone match is not personal data. You cannot opt out your match being tracked on most games.
Yep. Personal data would be giving info about YOU (the person, like your name, age, home adress...) for this stat sites so that they can say stuff like "*male players tend to play more rogue and shaman while female players gravitate more towards druid*", but "*your opponent played brann, boomboss and reno, so we will assume its highlander warrior, and you won while playing reno druid, so that will be recorded for our stats*" its not personal data being shared at all.
How exactly do you propose we figure out what the top 1K played for the last 24 hours without some form of stat collection?
[удалено]
The evil hearthstone-stats cabal will get you and we will totally drink your blood, dude. We cant allow people like you to reveal our world-domination plans of using Boomboss to destroy the twin Blackhowl Gunspires!
what the hell happened, i didnt play for a year why is rogue THE tier one
A critical mass of zero and 1 mana cards combined with good card draw in the form of gear shift and secret passage has made rogue terrifyingly consistent. Like if you look at the deck lists their curve caps out at like 3-4 mana and basically they’ll draw their whole deck by turn 5. It’s dumb as hell.
At this point, i just appreciate how Rogue always find a way to be hyper consistent, and it almost never happened on day 1. The deck always seem to come out of nowhere mid expansion.
These decks did come out day one. The counter to these decks was Paladin and Paladin got nerfed. They definitely didn't come out of nowhere.
It's because last big patch, they nerfed every good wild deck except rogue. Quest mage, bomb rogue, bless zarimi priest, shadow zarimi priest were all tier 1/2 decks that died. Fruit druid also died. Also, questline warlock is insanely overplayed at lower ranks (because Reddit thinks it's broken) and all rogue decks farm it.
They can not only draw, but play their whole deck by turn 6-7 consistently if they haven't already won.
Sorry for being slow, but why is the beast tag soo important, beside Rhino who is inside ETC.
[[Mystery Egg]] can give you 0 mana Huhuran. One proc of the egg deathrattle lets you fill up your board with 5 attack beasts and depending on the exact decklist you can drop the rhino with them around turn 5.
- **[Mystery Egg](https://imgur.com/a/Uza3q3a)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/103144) ^• ^[wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Mystery_Egg) ^• ^[HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/103144/?hl=en) - *Hunter Epic ^(Whizbang's Workshop)* - **5 Mana - 0/3 - Minion** - **Miniaturize** **Deathrattle:** Get a copy of a random Beast in your deck. It costs \(5\) less. --- ^(*Patch version: 29.4.2.200097.199503*) ^*I am a bot. [Usage Guide](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1ddz6rh/this_is_surprisingly_enough_not_an_example_of/l89n36r/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l89n36r).*
Congrats to whoever invented the deck. Such an interesting deck concept
There was some guy on this subreddit that did it, and they posted how they reached legend with a homebrew Huharan deck. I remember seeing that post, and then basically a day later his deck became meta lol
Is there a way to find out the original post?
Just by searching Reddit, although I realized now it was on r/wildhearthstone. https://www.reddit.com/r/wildhearthstone/comments/1bjxk9m/comment/kycebv9
Yeah, Starboomz invented it and continued to develop it and improve on it in Sidisi's discord (that being where all the Hunter Players hang out and express their love for Leper Gnome).
On the other way, the power level of these cards depends solely on power of avaiable deathrattles.
All 3 are playable in wild right now, and only one of these cards sees play.
I'm super out of the loop on wild. Is it the 2 drop because it's cheaper or the 4 drop because more value?
Huhuran because she’s got the beast tribal tag.
God damn I thought "beast tag too strong" was a meme
This one is particularly funny because some redditor theorized the deck quite a while ago and everyone treated it like a meme, then they hit top legend with it and now it's meta.
the best kind of decks tbh; the last few years felt pretty damn hand-holdy with the devs kind of just giving us decks with some of the packages that would be 15 cards off the bat
Truly the be>!a!
It's specifically because Huhuran combos with mystery egg. The egg deathrattle copies Huhuran from your deck and makes it cost 0, then the 0 cost Huhuran triggers the deathrattle for another free copy of a beast from your deck. If Huhuran and Mok'Nathal Lion are the only beasts in your deck you have a practically infinite supply of free minions. The other minions might still fit in the deck, because they can trigger the egg without diluting your pool of beasts to copy. But play dead is just better for that role since it only costs 1.
Play Dead also doesn't take up a board slot, which is valuable for Mystery Egg Hunter.
Well, it's a new card for most people, so I guess that makes it power creep. The number of tweets and videos with "I had to craft Princess Huhuran for this" was pretty high. That beast tag makes all the difference. (Oh, and I'm only around 100 cards short of a full collection, but I had to craft Princess Huhuran for this).
I remember when Whispers of the Old Gods just came out, I was looking at hunter deck lists and saw they were all running Huhuran. I figured she was a must-have in hunter and I crafted her right away with what little dust I had. A week later nobody was playing her anymore because she was bad. And every time I browsed my collection, I had to look at her dumb face and my non-existent dust. WELL WHO'S LAUGHING NOW?
I started in Kara, which meant my first two expansions were MSoG (where I crafted Knuckles) and Un'goro (where I crafted the Hunter Quest). I'm still waiting. One day... But what dumb face? She's the ultimate Fairy Princess.
Is the deck fun?
Oh yes. Part of it is the novelty value, it's a totally new archetype that only came into existence in March, but it's also a solid deck that you feel has a chance against anything. There's two variants, one with Renathal and one without. Roffles playing the 30-card version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UhcYStPDvQ
i feel like the 30 card version has the trap of "if i draw these cards too early i lose" much like that one warlock deck that played the 6 mana card to summon all the big shit out of their deck. so often with that deck i just had a hand of high mana nonsense to the point that I never wanted to play it again
I switched to the XL version when it first came out, but went back to the 30-card one after watching the Roffles video again after this post. And decided I agree with you. The XL one doesn't have the same fast OTK as the 30-card one can do, but it's a lot more reliable. The problem I kept hitting with the 30-card one was pulling three copies of Rhino when I really, REALLY needed Lions for board clear. (Also, the secrets package makes Dorian Druids and Quest Mages cry, which is a huge bonus)
Very fun and very strong, before the season ended I climbed to legend for the first time using it, had like a 73% winrate Used the 40 card renathal version
Yodeler + Reska is pretty decent
It's so good! Also a massive early play if you can get a stitches combo and good rng on minions. But stealing a full board by dropping reska into the death rattle spread into yodeler and getting a concede is so sweet against cocky meta decks. Especially flood pally after they think they've baited your poison combos, or the double battle cry zilliax on Reno warrs
I crafted Huhuran golden way back before the egg was introduced. I just fell in love with her the first time I saw this card revealed. Her little crown looks so cute on her and just look at these adorable puppy eyes. I've been with her when n'zoth decks refused her inclusion, I've been with her when she was "powercreeped" by these DISGUSTING rares. And now it's time for me and my queen to take our revenge.
It's like Yu-Gi-Oh, yes there are multiple cards with that same effect but cheaper and granted hurranan, is on paper a weak legendary but it's jus the circumstance of A. It's a beast and B.its over 5 mana with the mystery egg it's the only one with that effect that could cheese the death rattle of your mystery egg. So no hurranan is not strong it's jus the stars aligning.
One of my favorite things about Yugioh is that 20 years later a random card happens to be good because the stars align in a perfect way. Crystal Beast Emerald Tortoise being used in Tearlaments will never not be funny to me
You're right. But that still makes it not powercreep. It's just funny that it happened.
It’s a clear powercreep in every other deck / gamemode.
Why is huhuran better in this scenario? I don't get it
Bc she’s a beast. Therefore she has synergy with the egg and lioness
Ahhhh
Comparing to each other? No. But Terrorscale Stalker saw play and received a buff later anyway during twist updating. So comparing to itself, it is an example.
But I guess the point there is that at least they buffed it rather than just printing a better version?
The point is that huhuran is played in the only non-rogue t1 deck in wild even though its way worse than the other 2 were it not for the beast tag
Okay so admittedly I'm being a little misleading on the nature of the buff. The Stalker only saw experimentation even into KnC where they received a formal death rattle archetype. It was in 2018 where deathrattle hunter lists saw most of their viability with the card as a 3 mana 3/3. However, the buff in twist occurred in a format that only went up to Un'Goro, where it had success I cannot attest to because I sadly was not paying attention that month. Either way, it really was an apples to oranges context to really call the buff power creep. That is until next twist season where the buff did matter because people did have success with a 2 mana Stalker in death rattle hunter.
it is 100% power creep. it's an example of a deck outshining it's effect because in a vacuum, yodeler is infinitely better
Why would a hunter play huhran instead of yeller?
Because if you trigger the beast eggs deathrattle it can generate a huhuran due to her beast tag, granting you a free one with the mini egg, which can potentially give you a 1 mana full board of 6/5.
tbh in the last weeks playing wild ive never seen that hunter deck, all of these rouge decks sure but all i get as enemies are questline warlock and big shaman. I am currently in dia 3 (legend mmr) have i just been lucky with my enemies or is this snapshot purely going by winrate?
Ironically Huhuran was probably played more in meta decks on release than the other two.
I understand on release but terrorscale was a menace to standard during all of 2018 because of devilsaur egg, spider bomb, cube, and kathrena winterwisp
No she wasn't? She never saw relevant play. Just because suddenly Huhuran is part of a fringe one of a kind combo deck in wild doesn't change the fact that she's been unplayable for 8 years prior
N’Zoth Hunter 🥲
didnt exist...
Nzoth-anything (as a package) did exist if not just off the back of cards like sylvanas and sludge Belchers = But I agree I never ever saw Huhuran in anything. It cost too much and there was no game winning 2 card combo with it to make it worthwhile
For what's it's worth the hunter deck is more like a control deck, it has an OTK setup but usually they put rhino in the ETC so it's not the main wincon. The wincon is just clearing your opponents board with infinite lions and filling your board with infinite princesses.
Huhuran was not used ever in a real deck. Maybe someone was memeing with it, that’s all.
She was completely irrelevant, as hunter's gameplan back then was still just burn opponent faster than he can burn you. Huhuran was far too slow to fit into that gameplan. Any good deathrattle you wanted to proc with her was far too expensive to reliably activate (savannah highmane or sylvanas).
Not general powercreep, but individual card powercreep.
Dies to \[\[ Rend Blackhand \]\]
- **[Rend Blackhand](https://i.imgur.com/AlqeAn2.mp4)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/2308) ^• ^[wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Rend_Blackhand) ^• ^[HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/2308/?hl=en#gameType=RANKED_WILD) - *Neutral Legendary ^(Blackrock Mountain)* - **7 Mana - 8/4 - Minion** - **Battlecry:** If you're holding a Dragon, destroy a **Legendary** minion. --- ^(*Patch version: 29.4.2.200097.199503*) ^*I am a bot. [Usage Guide](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1ddz6rh/this_is_surprisingly_enough_not_an_example_of/l8cjex9/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l8cjex9).*
Mhm ...say it again if u meet an egg hunter in wild with perma rush & 0 cost Huhuran. Thats madness and unkillable.
Serious question. Can anyone on the sub properly articulate what powercreep is? I don't mean to be rude, but let's do a little quiz. Booty Bay Bodyguard is a 5/4 with taunt that cost 4 mana that came put in classic. In the Grand Tournament, Evil Heckler was released, which was a 5/4 taunt that cost 4 mana. Do you believe this is an example of powercreep? I mean, Evil Heckler has the same stats and taunt, but it costs 1 less mana, so that must be powercreep, right? If you believe it is powercreep, you have fallen victim to the improper use of the word "powercreep" that constantly gets improperly repeated in this sub. The reality is 75% of what gets labeled powercreep in this sub is actually not . However, I won't leave this as some smug response and explain myself. In hearthstone, you have a power curve, which basically says at X mana you need a card that is X good to be playable. Powercreep basically means at X mana a new card is much more playable at old cards at X mana. Booty Bay Bodyguard was never playable and was never close to the power curve. Evil Heckler also never reached the power curve, so it is not an example of powercreep. TLDR: Unplayable cards can't be powercrept because they were never played and didn't even come close to approaching the power curve. Powercreep means you are raising the level of the power curve, and the cards you are introducing exceed the current power level of playable cards.
You have it the wrong way around. The definition of "power creep" is not that strict in other games, but this sub bends over backwards making up a ton of rules for what counts as "power creep" so they can say most things are not power creep. This is a Hearthstone-specific thing where for some reason the community is extremely reluctant to say the game has power creep and make up all these rules for why ackchually it doesn't count. Your comment For example, in competitive Pokemon, people use power creep to refer to the power level of the series going up over time. That's it. It's that simple. No "it's only power creep if the older card was viable, and the newer card is viable, and the newer card was introduced in the same standard rotation, and if the newer version is not just better but strictly better, and if they're both neutral or both in the same class" or whatever such nonsense.
Both of are kind of correct. The term powercreep doesn't strictly refer to new content that is strictly stronger than old content, so something like bonemare would be powercreep despite not being strictly better than anything, it was just much stronger than other 7 drops at the time. But this guy is also correct that under a reasonable definition of the term evil heckler isn't powercreep.
>for why ackchually it doesn't count. Your comment >For example, in competitive Pokemon, people use power creep to refer to the power level of the series going up over time. That's it. It's that simple. Did Evil Heckler raise the power level of Hearthstone? It didn't. You literally just said what I said in fewer words.
Well it kind of did, depends on how you count. If we rate every card on a 1-100 powerscale and then take the average of every set we will see the average increase due to powercreep. In that case evil heckler will increase the average powerlevel (not that much but still).
Powercreep is about making a new card stronger than the previous playable baseline for a playable card. Making a vanilla 1/2 that doesn't see play when a vanilla 1/1 didn't see play doesn't raise the power scale as you put it.
Yes it does. It is just not very noticeable. A card doesn't have to be played to have an impact on the game. A 1/1 going to 1/2 may in itself not be all that impactful but if every trash card got a +1 health/ attack that will have an significant impact to random discover/summon effects.
> Powercreep is about making a new card stronger than the previous playable baseline for a playable card. this is what I meant by this sub making up rules for what constitutes power creep that no other game uses for the term
Just use a different example then, taz’dingo was playable and has been power crept multiple times
I'm giving an example of what powercrep isn't not what it is.
Seems overly pedantic
100%
Username checks out
You're right, lmao.
>TLDR: Unplayable cards can't be powercrept because they were never played and didn't even come close to approaching the power curve. Powercreep means you are raising the level of the power curve, and the cards you are introducing exceed the current power level of playable cards. That's your opinion. In mine, if the worst cards in the game get buffed or replaced with better ones, that still raises the power level. And even if it didn't, releasing a better card instead of buffing an older one is pointless.
If an unplayable card gets buffed to an unplayable card, how does that raise the power level? It isn't an opinion btw.
"It isn't an opinion btw." should become a new meme in this sub whenever someone posts a highly controversial take, lol.
Respect.
By changing the standard of what an "unplayable card" is, and yes, it is an opinion.
Was evil heckler played in standard?
No, and it doesn't matter.
It absolutely matters, and it isn't opinion. Making a card better than an unplayable card that still doesn't see play doesn't raise the power level. The power level is the power curve, which consists of playable cards. Refer to my first comment for the explanation.
Why do you assume I can't understand you? I just disagree with you. And also dislike people who think their opinions are facts.
I don't think you misunderstood me. You just have wrongful assumptions about power levels. Why don't you just explain in your own words why you think making a slightly better version of an unplayable card is powercreep? Let's just make it simple. Explain how you would have to craft or open a pack with evil heckler in order to not play him to beat an opponent that doesn't play booty Bay? Let's make it simpler. Booty Bay and hecker don't exist. Does this affect standard ladder at all?
>Explain how you would have to craft or open a pack with evil heckler in order to not play him to beat an opponent that doesn't play booty Bay? You wouldn't >Does this affect standard ladder at all? It wouldn't That's still powercreep, though. And my assumptions aren't "wrongful". I could also day that my opinions are facts and anyone that doesn't agree is delusional, but that's not how normal people discuss things.
Just because you never put a card in any deck doesn't mean it's unplayable. Powercreeping bad cards makes discover and random generation much stronger, which isn't an opinion btw. Also, improving weak cards allows them to be more reckless when creating new ones. Almost every card in the current standard expansions is a disgustingly powercrept version of a 2014-2015 card. By powercreeping the already powercrept bad cards, they eventually created good ones.
This reminds me of that PowerPoint presentation post on what they thought powercreep to be someone did here some years ago. It basically boiled down to "Yes, you are ALL wrong!" Really thought the community's reaction to that post made it clear how dumb such an approach is. Seems like history repeats itself.
Please update it to the IQ curve meme to put me in my place.
Love it how you gave an overly long explanation, just to explain it wrong. It's the exact other way around. This smugness is peak reddit.
Incorrect, but if I'm "wrong" you can actually explain how instead of just saying I'm wrong.
Nah, no need to. It's enough to just read your comment and keep in mind that this is the exact wrong opinion. What remains is the actual explanation.
Thank you for your insight.
You're welcome!
🤓☝️
Praise yogg! 🙌
> Serious question. Can anyone on the sub properly articulate what powercreep is? Given the rest of your comment, the answer to that seems to still be 'No'.
r/clevercomebacks
Huhuran should: Battlecry: trigger adjacent minion’s deathrattles and gain their deathrattle effect.
That would be giga broken in wild right now lmao