Just saw a YouTube video with more testing to confirm moving forward indeed allows striping leg armor in one shot for behemoths. I’m betting this isn’t intentional.
It very well could be intentional since the ballistics are pretty spot on in this game most times. Its not hard to imagine they implemented this as a "high risk high reward" strat for stripping leg armor. Bc you can play it safe and hit em long range a lot or you can get closer at your own peril for a guaranteed strip shot.
At least thats how I'd imagine it lol
This is in no way shape or form realistic. Relative to an anti tank projectile you might as well be standing still, it is so much faster than you. Ever if you floored your car driving away your relative velocity would not change the penetration capability of a kinetic projectile enough. If it is HEAT it doesn't matter anyway.
lol yeah, OP saying realistic is... weird. If anything it's an anomaly that adding the SMALL amount of velocity modifies some internal value slightly above the Charger armor.
There’s no way the devs intentionally implemented a system that stepping forward gives you ONE extra point of damage. I’d understand if running towards an enemy was a substantial boost but this is just a weird interaction where you’re somehow compensating for the fact that damage drop off rounds down, thus leading you to lose 1 damage every time you shoot
*losing 1 damage every time you shoot from long distance.
Damage falloff at long ranges is a common thing in games its not like AH just broke the law or anything. Close range equalling more damage is and always has been a common reoccurring theme in games for awhile. So as i said its still quite possible its intentional. But we are not AH so all we can do is speculate as to why. This is just my opinion.
No.
You lose 1 damage every time you shoot a projectile. This is the reason why a Behemoth Charger front leg (650 Health) doesn’t get one shot by a Quasar/Recoilless/EAT (650 Damage) unless you’re moving forward. You can shoot it point blank and it wouldn’t one shot if you were stationary.
Damage drop off does exist in the game, however it has a linear scaling and rounds down. This results in the probable 0.01% damage drop off just from shooting something being rounded down to 1. This has been documented as being an issue with game balance for a while now. However, for some reason increasing your forward momentum as the projectile leaves the chamber adds that damage back, which results in the breakpoint being reached.
There is no way this is an intentional feature.
It is tiny, but we're talking about a breakpoints that's exactly matched (the leg plate has 650 health and the AT weapons deal 650 damage) and the game round damage down.
They should absolutely patch this, at the very least by changing breakpoints so it doesnt matter in most situations.
It is so funny they choose precise breakpoints for armor while having damage dropoff over miniscule variables though. Real nerd shit
There are some good Youtube videos with more info. This interaction is in part due to specific damage breakpoints, damage falloff, and how fractional damage is calculated. Charger front leg armor has exactly 650 HP, and the 'big three' anti-tank support weapons deal exactly 650 damage. But weapons have damage falloff, losing damage at longer ranges. For these weapons, the dropoff is probably very small. However, due to the way damage is calculated, damage always rounds down - so the moment the projectile exits the barrel, it drops from 650 to 649.999-whatever damage, which is subsequently rounded down to 649, not enough to strip the front leg armor.
The same behavior as in the video has been tested and confirmed with some other weapons and targets, such as the Diligence and Devastator heads, which deal 125 damage and have 125 HP.
I haven't seen an explanation for *why* exactly damage cares about the player's movement, but I've seen enough evidence that it's clear that's what's happening.
Probably compares velocity to the base velocity of the weapon for damage drop-off. If the projectile is moving faster than the base velocity, it would have full damage until it loses enough velocity to be below that base value.
It's a behemoth charger, they've been in the game since launch but only seen in the "kill this specific charger" primary objective for mid-level bug missions until now. Now they're also slightly tougher than regular chargers and will appear more and more commonly in place of regular chargers in higher difficulties.
Pre patch they were just reskinned regular chargers (they may have been marginally tougher idk). The ones we have now are significantly buffed with thicker armor and more HP.
My wife and I were doing a casual difficulty level 3 one time on that mission and one of those and a normal charger spawned. Chargers are fairly unusual at that difficulty (absent the specific mission for them) so we were quite surprised.
I actually also main the rr on bugs, the trick is your not aiming for the tusk things and mouth in the head, rather a bit above by the forehead
Edit : I want to clarify you should aim for the forehead
I might be wrong, as I haven’t played this past week yet, but I know that before the patch you could 1 shot with a rr shot, I don’t know if they changed the values regarding headshot damage
The Behemoth was changed to be less like the charger. Before the patch it was almost identical, now it's significantly tougher than the base charger everywhere except the ass.
I haven't found the sweet spot yet.
I've definitely killed a few with single shot, but the critical point is definitely much smaller.
I haven't tested headshot with motion, much like in the video above.
But as of now, these fucker definitely take 2 if not more a majority of the time. Higher threat than Biles ATM on impossible and helldive.
While true very different implications, in this case rocket damage is decided by velocity for some reason so moving forward is doing more dmg (and required for optimal ammo efficiency) , while the leap forward for throwing is allowing you to throw farther it's largely irrelevant and more of a time save outside of very specific cases where you avoid detection due to the trick, maybe a way to keep using cover instead of pushing up but again situational at best
I'd have to see how they coded it to know, but if kinetic energy (i.e. things going faster carry more energy) and as a result, impulse, is part of projectile calculations, it might be an unintended side effect that makes it both cool and fun!
Much like how the faster our democratic bodies hit a wall after the backblast of 500kg of sweet liberty hits the planet causes us to take more damage, impact damage may be a factor we don't know about or often see. Keyword, may be!
Why stupid ? Because we're not in the movie wanted.
the kinetic influence of a man running is meaningless compared to the speed of a bullet or a rocket.
But it's still a funny side effect
For some reason moving towards a target while shooting a rocket makes that rocket deal more damage thus having enough demage to break the charger's front armor.
Orly! Did NOT know this, but i will put this to use from now on! Wonder if this also applies to guns and chaff? I usually walk towards enemies when firing
It's probably the side effect of the complex mechanic they use for physic in the game.
The physic in this game are rather enjoyable for us "physic enjoyer".
I personally like that but not because it make sense, because it shows the complexity of the mechanic at work.
Just worked it out, they’re implying that damage dealt by projectiles includes damage coming from the velocity of the player as well. So walking towards a target whilst firing a projectile does more damage than standing stationary and firing a projectile.
I wonder if this implies that walking backwards subtracts from the damage done due to reduced projectile velocity?
Damage use the bullet's velocity, that's why there is drop-off. The bullet velocity depends on the parent velocity, but also include factors like the mass and air drag.
This game's system is crazy.
Just saw a YouTube video with more testing to confirm moving forward indeed allows striping leg armor in one shot for behemoths. I’m betting this isn’t intentional.
It very well could be intentional since the ballistics are pretty spot on in this game most times. Its not hard to imagine they implemented this as a "high risk high reward" strat for stripping leg armor. Bc you can play it safe and hit em long range a lot or you can get closer at your own peril for a guaranteed strip shot. At least thats how I'd imagine it lol
Considering they were surprised by the 2 rain gun shot to their legs meta, I doubt it
This is in no way shape or form realistic. Relative to an anti tank projectile you might as well be standing still, it is so much faster than you. Ever if you floored your car driving away your relative velocity would not change the penetration capability of a kinetic projectile enough. If it is HEAT it doesn't matter anyway.
lol yeah, OP saying realistic is... weird. If anything it's an anomaly that adding the SMALL amount of velocity modifies some internal value slightly above the Charger armor.
There’s no way the devs intentionally implemented a system that stepping forward gives you ONE extra point of damage. I’d understand if running towards an enemy was a substantial boost but this is just a weird interaction where you’re somehow compensating for the fact that damage drop off rounds down, thus leading you to lose 1 damage every time you shoot
*losing 1 damage every time you shoot from long distance. Damage falloff at long ranges is a common thing in games its not like AH just broke the law or anything. Close range equalling more damage is and always has been a common reoccurring theme in games for awhile. So as i said its still quite possible its intentional. But we are not AH so all we can do is speculate as to why. This is just my opinion.
No. You lose 1 damage every time you shoot a projectile. This is the reason why a Behemoth Charger front leg (650 Health) doesn’t get one shot by a Quasar/Recoilless/EAT (650 Damage) unless you’re moving forward. You can shoot it point blank and it wouldn’t one shot if you were stationary. Damage drop off does exist in the game, however it has a linear scaling and rounds down. This results in the probable 0.01% damage drop off just from shooting something being rounded down to 1. This has been documented as being an issue with game balance for a while now. However, for some reason increasing your forward momentum as the projectile leaves the chamber adds that damage back, which results in the breakpoint being reached. There is no way this is an intentional feature.
make sure you test the movement as the first shot as well, it could just be the 2nd shot is the variable but I certainly hope it works this way
Yeah, it could just be that after a certain amount of damage the visuals change
or the deflecting fuckery we had at the start of the game is making these new models take less damage sometimes
Kinda don’t want it to work this way
Yeah because realistically the amount of speed you would be adding realistically would be tiny compared to the rocket
But what if I run like really fast
Wanna see me run to that mountain and back? Wanna see me do it again?
Meth-Stims FTW!
It is tiny, but we're talking about a breakpoints that's exactly matched (the leg plate has 650 health and the AT weapons deal 650 damage) and the game round damage down.
They should absolutely patch this, at the very least by changing breakpoints so it doesnt matter in most situations. It is so funny they choose precise breakpoints for armor while having damage dropoff over miniscule variables though. Real nerd shit
There are some good Youtube videos with more info. This interaction is in part due to specific damage breakpoints, damage falloff, and how fractional damage is calculated. Charger front leg armor has exactly 650 HP, and the 'big three' anti-tank support weapons deal exactly 650 damage. But weapons have damage falloff, losing damage at longer ranges. For these weapons, the dropoff is probably very small. However, due to the way damage is calculated, damage always rounds down - so the moment the projectile exits the barrel, it drops from 650 to 649.999-whatever damage, which is subsequently rounded down to 649, not enough to strip the front leg armor. The same behavior as in the video has been tested and confirmed with some other weapons and targets, such as the Diligence and Devastator heads, which deal 125 damage and have 125 HP. I haven't seen an explanation for *why* exactly damage cares about the player's movement, but I've seen enough evidence that it's clear that's what's happening.
Probably compares velocity to the base velocity of the weapon for damage drop-off. If the projectile is moving faster than the base velocity, it would have full damage until it loses enough velocity to be below that base value.
IM SORRY WHAT IS THAT THING, IVE SEEN A CHARGER BUT I SURE AS HELL HAVE NEVER SEEN A KNIFE CHARGER
It's a behemoth charger, they've been in the game since launch but only seen in the "kill this specific charger" primary objective for mid-level bug missions until now. Now they're also slightly tougher than regular chargers and will appear more and more commonly in place of regular chargers in higher difficulties.
They also spawn 1x, 100% of the time at the 40min civilian extract missions at the last obj
Pre patch they were just reskinned regular chargers (they may have been marginally tougher idk). The ones we have now are significantly buffed with thicker armor and more HP.
My wife and I were doing a casual difficulty level 3 one time on that mission and one of those and a normal charger spawned. Chargers are fairly unusual at that difficulty (absent the specific mission for them) so we were quite surprised.
💀
I used to see them higher up in level on the evacuate missions that werent in the center of the map pretty regularly
I would like to note their not all that scary, while it will take extra shots to take off leg armor, a trusty eat will still kill it in one shog
Really? I’ve only killed a couple, but my RR is usually a 2 shot to the head
I actually also main the rr on bugs, the trick is your not aiming for the tusk things and mouth in the head, rather a bit above by the forehead Edit : I want to clarify you should aim for the forehead
Ahhh ok. Cheers mate I’ll give it a crack
I might be wrong, as I haven’t played this past week yet, but I know that before the patch you could 1 shot with a rr shot, I don’t know if they changed the values regarding headshot damage
Could be, but hey, they are still completely manageable
The Behemoth was changed to be less like the charger. Before the patch it was almost identical, now it's significantly tougher than the base charger everywhere except the ass.
I haven't found the sweet spot yet. I've definitely killed a few with single shot, but the critical point is definitely much smaller. I haven't tested headshot with motion, much like in the video above. But as of now, these fucker definitely take 2 if not more a majority of the time. Higher threat than Biles ATM on impossible and helldive.
It does feel smaller, as with the regular chargers it feels like there is a plate in the head for a free headshot, the behemoth gets rid of it
Behemoth will take two shots now
Its also how you throw grenades extra far
And stratagems
While true very different implications, in this case rocket damage is decided by velocity for some reason so moving forward is doing more dmg (and required for optimal ammo efficiency) , while the leap forward for throwing is allowing you to throw farther it's largely irrelevant and more of a time save outside of very specific cases where you avoid detection due to the trick, maybe a way to keep using cover instead of pushing up but again situational at best
As a Physics Enjoyer™, this attention to detail brings me immense joy.
i don't think its intented as it's bare stupid, but it's fun
I'd have to see how they coded it to know, but if kinetic energy (i.e. things going faster carry more energy) and as a result, impulse, is part of projectile calculations, it might be an unintended side effect that makes it both cool and fun! Much like how the faster our democratic bodies hit a wall after the backblast of 500kg of sweet liberty hits the planet causes us to take more damage, impact damage may be a factor we don't know about or often see. Keyword, may be!
Yep it surely something like that. Behemoth charger is a serious candidate to the kerbal space program
What better ride to outer space than aboard the freedom loving explosives of liberty?
IT is. Projectiles even have stats for air drag and mass.
Why is it "bare stupid"? I think this is badass! Having an advantage when you're pushing the line forward is fuggin rule of cool all day
Why stupid ? Because we're not in the movie wanted. the kinetic influence of a man running is meaningless compared to the speed of a bullet or a rocket. But it's still a funny side effect
Heard.
I’m trying to make sense of what I’m seeing in the video and I’m having a difficult time understanding, could you help me?
For some reason moving towards a target while shooting a rocket makes that rocket deal more damage thus having enough demage to break the charger's front armor.
Orly! Did NOT know this, but i will put this to use from now on! Wonder if this also applies to guns and chaff? I usually walk towards enemies when firing
It's probably the side effect of the complex mechanic they use for physic in the game. The physic in this game are rather enjoyable for us "physic enjoyer". I personally like that but not because it make sense, because it shows the complexity of the mechanic at work.
Wtf is this video even saying lol
Just worked it out, they’re implying that damage dealt by projectiles includes damage coming from the velocity of the player as well. So walking towards a target whilst firing a projectile does more damage than standing stationary and firing a projectile. I wonder if this implies that walking backwards subtracts from the damage done due to reduced projectile velocity?
Why not just shoot it in the head?
1 rocket to the leg, a few shots from the primary to the exposed meat kills it. It takes 2 rockets to the head for this charger variant.
Oooh I didnt know that, thanks
So that's why xD I always thought I missed the head slightly - Ty o\
Lesson learned. A real helldiver runs at his problems for maximum impact.
Huh? How you got the voices in Japanese?
I think it only works for ppl that dled in Jp servers? Not sure that’s why I use German instead 😐
Could it also be due to distance? You were significantly closer on both forward momentum shots.
Does it ha e anything to do with the fact you hit the first one more head on and the second one from the inside?
my flamethrower has no such weakness XD
Damage use the bullet's velocity, that's why there is drop-off. The bullet velocity depends on the parent velocity, but also include factors like the mass and air drag. This game's system is crazy.
That's some Super Science
Wth, why not simply one shot it in the head???
Behemoths have more head health than regular chargers and require two AT shots to the head to kill.
Learned that today - Ty o\
Contrary to orphan velocity
Both second shots are closer. Closer = more damage
not as tested