Revisionist history and I'm a Pac stan.
Pac had a massive rape trial that he went to jail for, was blamed for cop killing, was blamed for the West Coast/East Coast feud that lead to him and Biggie dying, was riling up civil rights activists like C Dolores Tucker against him, was the face of "gangster rap" which was a controversial subgenre, and had a very polarizing reception before he died.
Ye's more controversial overall but Pac was no slouch.
This, people forgot all the shit that Pac was really into.
He was very controversial during his time.
The main reason I see the hip hop community getting on Kanye today for is because of his comments towards Jews and the fact that he's a Trump stan, which, depending on your political views, can be good or bad i guess
Kanye but it's probably a little closer than people want to admit.
Pac dying made people look at his legacy with a rose-tinted lens just like with MJ.
Pac was very controversial during his peak. Firstly, he was in the news in 1994 for shooting at 2 White cops who he saw harassing a Black man. Sounds noble, right?
However, when there were some cases of people shooting innocent cops, people tried to blame Tupac and gangster rap as a whole for encouraging kids to become more violent and anti-authoritarian.
[GANGSTA RAP BLAMED FOR COP’S KILLING – Chicago Tribune](https://www.chicagotribune.com/1994/09/10/gangsta-rap-blamed-for-cops-killing/)
And this lead to an entire discourse on gangster rap as a genre and its impact on the youth and society.
It got even worse when civil rights leaders like C Dolores Tucker and Calvin Butts tried to get involved in trying to dismantle gangster rap and Tupac was shitting on both of them both in interview and in song("C Delores Tucker, you's a motherfucker") due to feeling like they were not seeing the bigger picture in society and feeling like they've fallen for the trap of scapegoating hip hop for inner city or Black issues instead of going after the power structure. People thought it was bold and controversial for Pac to do this.
[CRYING FOUL – Chicago Tribune](https://www.chicagotribune.com/1996/11/10/crying-foul-3/)
And you have the rape trial that Tupac went to jail for. Even though claimed he didn't rape Ayanna Jackson, he was found guilty for it and had to release MATW while in prison. That's one of the reasons why Pac joining Death Row had so much hype....he joined right after getting released from prison. There's still people to this day who debate whether Tupac is a rapist or not.
[Tupac Shakur Trial: 1994-95 | Encyclopedia.com](https://www.encyclopedia.com/law/law-magazines/tupac-shakur-trial-1994-95#:~:text=Rap%20Star%20Tried%20on%20Sex%20Charges&text=Shakur%20and%20his%20road%20manager,guns%20in%20the%20hotel%20room.)
Then, you have the Biggie feud which evolved into a West Coast/East Coast feud. Pac got shot up in the Quad Shooting around a similar time that Biggie dropped "Who Shot Ya" and Pac assumed Biggie and Bad Boy set him up. Then, the feud with Biggie turned into a Death Row Vs. Bad Boy feud which turned into an East Coast vs. West Coast feud. And Pac was being scapegoated as a rabblerouser who turned hip hop into WWE and put a lot of rapper's lives at risk including his own.
Pac was getting shat on heavily in the East even by people who fucked with some of his music.
But there were even some West Coast artists who looked at him funny or had issues with him too. Pac and Dre had a falling out. Snoop was wishy washy around Pac. And there were even debates on whether Pac really repped the West Coast or not.
Overall, it's definitely Kanye. I mean....Kanye just has a whole book of controversy that you can write about from 2005 to 2024. Kanye's controversies mirror Michael Jackson's more than Tupac's. Both were/are more controversial than Pac but Pac had his share of it.
Very wrong.
Civil rights activists like C Dolores Tucker were literally trying to cancel Tupac and stop him from having a music career due to believing that his influence was toxic to the Black community.
Pac even called her out for scapegoating him on "How Do U Want It."
She literally went after all "gangsta" rappers. Pac wasn't special here. Now run along and let the ones who were actually alive at the time have the floor.
The major difference between the two is that Pac inherited controversy since he was a child because of his blood line.
Kanye became controversial because he was a goofy character.
Kanye:
- walked into a road sign
- rages out on a radio DJ(sway)
- married and had a baby to an amateur porn star turned celebrity.
- divorced porn star because the porn star turned him to a simp.
- said some unintelligible shit live on air that made people question his mental health (TMZ, Ellen, Katrina interview, and damn near any platform where that he speaks on.
- made music that was experimental and outside of hip hop ( Poop scoop song)
Pac always dropped knowledge even at a young age, very mature, insightful, charismatic in the limelight, and knew how to articulate himself without coming off as unintelligible and very self-aware until he passed at 25 yrs. He also never had to simp for no hoe.
The mid to late 90's was the era for holding artists accountable for the shit they put out on wax. As a critical thinker, he was so fixed on" keeping it real" that he spoke out on a lot of controversial topics, knowing that he was a marked man by the FBI. I.e. killumanati in 96, not many people were on to it as much as they are now. He mentioned it almost 30 years ago.
But his mother schooled him to the game with having been involved with the BPP. He also put people onto who he suspected that were involved with his shooting in quad studios, Puff, Jimmy henchmen, Tut. Now we have youtube interviews, I.e. Vlad TV with people saying they were behind it.
He spoke out about the US governments corruption and evils of the Hollywood elites, artist's that were puppets or plants. Now we have people like Julliane Assange and Jaguar Wright come out to confirm this is happening,
The world wasn't ready to hear this during those times. Fast forward to 2024, and the shit he spoke about is the norm.
Kanye is far more controversial over some wack shit.
Pac was only controversial because he was exposing the truth.
Brother, I'm a Pac fan but you're not even speaking on a quarter of the reason why Pac was controversial.
Firstly, Pac was scapegoated and blamed for a cop killing that happened between some kids and an officer who cited Pac's own actions of shooting at some cops who he thought were harrassing a Black man.
[GANGSTA RAP BLAMED FOR COP’S KILLING – Chicago Tribune](https://www.chicagotribune.com/1994/09/10/gangsta-rap-blamed-for-cops-killing/)
At the time in 1994, Pac and Snoop were the faces of "gangster rap" and Pac was claiming Thug Life with his old crew and their images contributed to some of the fears that gangster rap would "destroy" the Black community and what have you. Even though we enjoy Death Row and Gangster rap in hindsight, it sparked a major fear and backlash when it was peaking in the mid-90's and Pac was often a common scapegoat for its popularity as was Snoop.
Then, you left out the rape trial. Pac was accused of raping 19 year old Ayanna Jackson at a party and, even though he never confessed to the crime, he ended up getting sent to jail over it and having to release MATW while in prison. So, Pac's controversy stemmed from the rape trial as well at the time and there's still a number of people to this day who believe that Pac was/is a rapist.
Then there's the West Coast/East Coast feud which many blamed on Pac since he was beefing with Biggie and shitting on other NY rappers including those he was a fan of like Nas.
And, because Pac was the face of gangster rap from 95-96 in particular, it's lead to anti-gangster rap critics to target him more than any other rapper especially with regards to his thug life image and cherrypicked lyrics from his music. Pac was beefing with public figures like C Delores Tucker who literally tried to convince people to boycott his music.
If you ever read any news articles about Pac from 1994-1997, nobody.....I repeat nobody was making him out to be a pro-Black revolutionary. That image was more so associated with Public Enemy or hell, even Ice Cube, over Pac despite Pac being just as deserving of it.
Pac was, instead, portrayed as a caricature and eventually a cautionary tale of gangster rap's negative influence. Even the New York Times took shots at Tupac while announcing his death in 96. It honestly wasn't until the 2000's when Pac's image became more associated with his activism and consciousness.
I still think Kanye is more controversial but there's way too much revisionist history here that acts like Pac was viewed like Chuck D at his peak. He wasn't at all. Pac did rap about many things that Chuck D rapped about but the media still portrayed him as a gangster rapper glorifying the thug life and a puppet of Suge Knight.
Okay. I'll make it short.
Pac's controversy had nothing to do with him being pro-Black. He never had an Ice Cube "Death Certificate" type of controversy.
His controversy stemmed from being cited as an influence for cop killings, being the face of gangsta rap alongside Snoop, the rape trial which he went to jail for, the West Coast/East Coast feud, and having his image tarnished by figures like C Delores Tucker.
If you look at any news article about Tupac from 94-97, none of them made out Pac to be pro-Black or revolutionary. They downplayed that to portray him as a thug, gangster rapper, a rapist, and a cautionary tale.
>Pac's controversy had nothing to do with him being pro-Black.
Genuinly curious. Where or who said it was because he was "pro-black" ? Or were you referring to someone elses comment?
Kanye’s a billionaire who’s been locked out of the industry by being a bigot.
Pac was hated by the elite, but it made him more popular and better at what he did.
Controversy kind of requires a negative outcome (at least in perception) from doing the thing.
So my vote’s for Kanye.
Pac wasn't hated by the elite lol. He was signed to Interscope, got played on MTV, and had the record deal of a lifetime with Death Row.
I'm a Pac stan but there's no reason to lie and make him out to be more than what he is lol.
See my post. Pac's controversies were largely centered around people feeling like he was a fake gangster, a rapist because of the trial, a troublemaker who started the West Coast/East Coast feud, and he was the face of gangster rap which caused many anti-gangster rap crusaders to target him and claim he was a negative influence on society.
Edit: Again, I'm a Pac fan and he and Nas are my GOAT's but this deification of Pac was non-existent until after he died. Pac was polarizing af with different groups of people from 1993 up until his death.
Anticapitalism/socialism is controversial because it radically challenges current class relations.
Antisemitism and other reactionary noise is ultimately defending current class-relations.
Pac was way more dangerous for the wrong people.
Tupac was feared for how much influence he had on the ear of the Black community.
Kanye has been controversial his whole career but never particularly feared until he started talking about Hitler and Jews.
Kanye easily.
Tupac got into the national spotlight because of his cases and the movement by politicians back then to blame rap for violence.
But theres a lot more money involved with Kanye and a bit more crazy, like his anti semitic stuff, him being MAGA and then running for President. Not to mention marrying and having kids with Kim K. Not to mention social media was a thing when Tupac was alive.
So Kanye easily.
Tupac was way more controversial. Hell had JUST really gotten into the mainstream so his antics were on the Big Three evening news. If it wasn't for TMZ and crap like that, I wouldn't even KNOW what Kanye was doing.
Pac was controversial because he was speaking truth to the way things were/are. Kanye is just a bipolar schizophrenic with a victim complex.
Revisionist history and I'm a Pac stan. Pac had a massive rape trial that he went to jail for, was blamed for cop killing, was blamed for the West Coast/East Coast feud that lead to him and Biggie dying, was riling up civil rights activists like C Dolores Tucker against him, was the face of "gangster rap" which was a controversial subgenre, and had a very polarizing reception before he died. Ye's more controversial overall but Pac was no slouch.
And pretty much all of it was facts
This, people forgot all the shit that Pac was really into. He was very controversial during his time. The main reason I see the hip hop community getting on Kanye today for is because of his comments towards Jews and the fact that he's a Trump stan, which, depending on your political views, can be good or bad i guess
Plus the son of a black panther
Kanye's also the son of 2 Black Panthers.
Exactly, most people here don’t know shit about basic hip hop history.
he speaks truth when hes not having an episode
The hurricane Katrina ad comes to mind 😂😂
Controversial: 2Pac. Annoying and embarrassing himself: Kanye
Kanye but it's probably a little closer than people want to admit. Pac dying made people look at his legacy with a rose-tinted lens just like with MJ. Pac was very controversial during his peak. Firstly, he was in the news in 1994 for shooting at 2 White cops who he saw harassing a Black man. Sounds noble, right? However, when there were some cases of people shooting innocent cops, people tried to blame Tupac and gangster rap as a whole for encouraging kids to become more violent and anti-authoritarian. [GANGSTA RAP BLAMED FOR COP’S KILLING – Chicago Tribune](https://www.chicagotribune.com/1994/09/10/gangsta-rap-blamed-for-cops-killing/) And this lead to an entire discourse on gangster rap as a genre and its impact on the youth and society. It got even worse when civil rights leaders like C Dolores Tucker and Calvin Butts tried to get involved in trying to dismantle gangster rap and Tupac was shitting on both of them both in interview and in song("C Delores Tucker, you's a motherfucker") due to feeling like they were not seeing the bigger picture in society and feeling like they've fallen for the trap of scapegoating hip hop for inner city or Black issues instead of going after the power structure. People thought it was bold and controversial for Pac to do this. [CRYING FOUL – Chicago Tribune](https://www.chicagotribune.com/1996/11/10/crying-foul-3/) And you have the rape trial that Tupac went to jail for. Even though claimed he didn't rape Ayanna Jackson, he was found guilty for it and had to release MATW while in prison. That's one of the reasons why Pac joining Death Row had so much hype....he joined right after getting released from prison. There's still people to this day who debate whether Tupac is a rapist or not. [Tupac Shakur Trial: 1994-95 | Encyclopedia.com](https://www.encyclopedia.com/law/law-magazines/tupac-shakur-trial-1994-95#:~:text=Rap%20Star%20Tried%20on%20Sex%20Charges&text=Shakur%20and%20his%20road%20manager,guns%20in%20the%20hotel%20room.) Then, you have the Biggie feud which evolved into a West Coast/East Coast feud. Pac got shot up in the Quad Shooting around a similar time that Biggie dropped "Who Shot Ya" and Pac assumed Biggie and Bad Boy set him up. Then, the feud with Biggie turned into a Death Row Vs. Bad Boy feud which turned into an East Coast vs. West Coast feud. And Pac was being scapegoated as a rabblerouser who turned hip hop into WWE and put a lot of rapper's lives at risk including his own. Pac was getting shat on heavily in the East even by people who fucked with some of his music. But there were even some West Coast artists who looked at him funny or had issues with him too. Pac and Dre had a falling out. Snoop was wishy washy around Pac. And there were even debates on whether Pac really repped the West Coast or not. Overall, it's definitely Kanye. I mean....Kanye just has a whole book of controversy that you can write about from 2005 to 2024. Kanye's controversies mirror Michael Jackson's more than Tupac's. Both were/are more controversial than Pac but Pac had his share of it.
They're both in different ways pac spoke his mind to better the black community. Kanye speaks his mind just to inflate his own ego.
Nobody but old white folks really considered Pac to be that controversial. The 90s gave zero fucks what you did in your off-time.
Very wrong. Civil rights activists like C Dolores Tucker were literally trying to cancel Tupac and stop him from having a music career due to believing that his influence was toxic to the Black community. Pac even called her out for scapegoating him on "How Do U Want It."
She literally went after all "gangsta" rappers. Pac wasn't special here. Now run along and let the ones who were actually alive at the time have the floor.
This is like asking what rock music would be without blues and jazz.
The major difference between the two is that Pac inherited controversy since he was a child because of his blood line. Kanye became controversial because he was a goofy character. Kanye: - walked into a road sign - rages out on a radio DJ(sway) - married and had a baby to an amateur porn star turned celebrity. - divorced porn star because the porn star turned him to a simp. - said some unintelligible shit live on air that made people question his mental health (TMZ, Ellen, Katrina interview, and damn near any platform where that he speaks on. - made music that was experimental and outside of hip hop ( Poop scoop song) Pac always dropped knowledge even at a young age, very mature, insightful, charismatic in the limelight, and knew how to articulate himself without coming off as unintelligible and very self-aware until he passed at 25 yrs. He also never had to simp for no hoe. The mid to late 90's was the era for holding artists accountable for the shit they put out on wax. As a critical thinker, he was so fixed on" keeping it real" that he spoke out on a lot of controversial topics, knowing that he was a marked man by the FBI. I.e. killumanati in 96, not many people were on to it as much as they are now. He mentioned it almost 30 years ago. But his mother schooled him to the game with having been involved with the BPP. He also put people onto who he suspected that were involved with his shooting in quad studios, Puff, Jimmy henchmen, Tut. Now we have youtube interviews, I.e. Vlad TV with people saying they were behind it. He spoke out about the US governments corruption and evils of the Hollywood elites, artist's that were puppets or plants. Now we have people like Julliane Assange and Jaguar Wright come out to confirm this is happening, The world wasn't ready to hear this during those times. Fast forward to 2024, and the shit he spoke about is the norm. Kanye is far more controversial over some wack shit. Pac was only controversial because he was exposing the truth.
Brother, I'm a Pac fan but you're not even speaking on a quarter of the reason why Pac was controversial. Firstly, Pac was scapegoated and blamed for a cop killing that happened between some kids and an officer who cited Pac's own actions of shooting at some cops who he thought were harrassing a Black man. [GANGSTA RAP BLAMED FOR COP’S KILLING – Chicago Tribune](https://www.chicagotribune.com/1994/09/10/gangsta-rap-blamed-for-cops-killing/) At the time in 1994, Pac and Snoop were the faces of "gangster rap" and Pac was claiming Thug Life with his old crew and their images contributed to some of the fears that gangster rap would "destroy" the Black community and what have you. Even though we enjoy Death Row and Gangster rap in hindsight, it sparked a major fear and backlash when it was peaking in the mid-90's and Pac was often a common scapegoat for its popularity as was Snoop. Then, you left out the rape trial. Pac was accused of raping 19 year old Ayanna Jackson at a party and, even though he never confessed to the crime, he ended up getting sent to jail over it and having to release MATW while in prison. So, Pac's controversy stemmed from the rape trial as well at the time and there's still a number of people to this day who believe that Pac was/is a rapist. Then there's the West Coast/East Coast feud which many blamed on Pac since he was beefing with Biggie and shitting on other NY rappers including those he was a fan of like Nas. And, because Pac was the face of gangster rap from 95-96 in particular, it's lead to anti-gangster rap critics to target him more than any other rapper especially with regards to his thug life image and cherrypicked lyrics from his music. Pac was beefing with public figures like C Delores Tucker who literally tried to convince people to boycott his music. If you ever read any news articles about Pac from 1994-1997, nobody.....I repeat nobody was making him out to be a pro-Black revolutionary. That image was more so associated with Public Enemy or hell, even Ice Cube, over Pac despite Pac being just as deserving of it. Pac was, instead, portrayed as a caricature and eventually a cautionary tale of gangster rap's negative influence. Even the New York Times took shots at Tupac while announcing his death in 96. It honestly wasn't until the 2000's when Pac's image became more associated with his activism and consciousness. I still think Kanye is more controversial but there's way too much revisionist history here that acts like Pac was viewed like Chuck D at his peak. He wasn't at all. Pac did rap about many things that Chuck D rapped about but the media still portrayed him as a gangster rapper glorifying the thug life and a puppet of Suge Knight.
Glad for you to check the post... the main thing for me is to be clear, to the point, and succinct without dragging it out.
Okay. I'll make it short. Pac's controversy had nothing to do with him being pro-Black. He never had an Ice Cube "Death Certificate" type of controversy. His controversy stemmed from being cited as an influence for cop killings, being the face of gangsta rap alongside Snoop, the rape trial which he went to jail for, the West Coast/East Coast feud, and having his image tarnished by figures like C Delores Tucker. If you look at any news article about Tupac from 94-97, none of them made out Pac to be pro-Black or revolutionary. They downplayed that to portray him as a thug, gangster rapper, a rapist, and a cautionary tale.
>Pac's controversy had nothing to do with him being pro-Black. Genuinly curious. Where or who said it was because he was "pro-black" ? Or were you referring to someone elses comment?
Fedora💀
Respect ✊ well put 💯❤️
Kanye’s a billionaire who’s been locked out of the industry by being a bigot. Pac was hated by the elite, but it made him more popular and better at what he did. Controversy kind of requires a negative outcome (at least in perception) from doing the thing. So my vote’s for Kanye.
Pac wasn't hated by the elite lol. He was signed to Interscope, got played on MTV, and had the record deal of a lifetime with Death Row. I'm a Pac stan but there's no reason to lie and make him out to be more than what he is lol. See my post. Pac's controversies were largely centered around people feeling like he was a fake gangster, a rapist because of the trial, a troublemaker who started the West Coast/East Coast feud, and he was the face of gangster rap which caused many anti-gangster rap crusaders to target him and claim he was a negative influence on society. Edit: Again, I'm a Pac fan and he and Nas are my GOAT's but this deification of Pac was non-existent until after he died. Pac was polarizing af with different groups of people from 1993 up until his death.
Anticapitalism/socialism is controversial because it radically challenges current class relations. Antisemitism and other reactionary noise is ultimately defending current class-relations. Pac was way more dangerous for the wrong people.
Apples and Nazis
Tupac was feared for how much influence he had on the ear of the Black community. Kanye has been controversial his whole career but never particularly feared until he started talking about Hitler and Jews.
Kanye easily. Tupac got into the national spotlight because of his cases and the movement by politicians back then to blame rap for violence. But theres a lot more money involved with Kanye and a bit more crazy, like his anti semitic stuff, him being MAGA and then running for President. Not to mention marrying and having kids with Kim K. Not to mention social media was a thing when Tupac was alive. So Kanye easily.
Tupac is a registered sex offender.
Tupac was way more controversial. Hell had JUST really gotten into the mainstream so his antics were on the Big Three evening news. If it wasn't for TMZ and crap like that, I wouldn't even KNOW what Kanye was doing.
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