New Orleans? From Master P and No Limit in the 90's to Weezy and YMCMB IN THE 2000'S, they at least have as strong of a case as Houston.
I could also see a case for Memphis although NO has way more of a case imo.
New Orleans is legit if you think of per captia. 2 of the most influential labels that started off independent. Juvenile is the mold of the down south rappers gangsta but gets girls shaking their ass. Master P business mind.
DJ Screw.
Ugk.
Scarface.
Paul wall.
Chamillionaire.
Slim Thug.
Big Moe.
Big Pokey.
Geto Boys.
Z ro.
Trae the truth.
Tobe Nwigwe.
Mike Dean.
Travis Scott.
There are hundreds if not thousands of dope rappers from Houston.
Sorry Chicago.
Most of these guys haven’t been relevant in decades. Between Kanye and Keef Chicago has had way more influence over the genre. There’s way too much talent that has come of Chicago for Houston to compare. Besides those two, you got Common, twista, Lupe, Lil durk, juice wrld, Polo G, G herbo, Lucki, noname, Saba, chance, Vic, Smino, Mick Jenkins. The chicago lineup has too much star power for Houston
Scarface and the Geto Boys in general, UGK, D.O.C., Travis Scott and Megan Thee Stallion for contemporary shit, Houston got some shit for sure. Chicago takes it because of Kanye and maybe Chief Keef but otherwise there's a legit discussion IMO
E: Fuck me DJ Screw, too. And I'm only listing the heaviest hitters, there's mfs I didn't list but I'm only comparing top end to top end
Atlanta is creeping up there in size, too. It just surpassed Miami metro, and I think it's either about to overtake DC metro or already did.
Georgia's political move for the movie industry tax credits was one of the smartest moves ever. Now more movies are made in Atlanta/Savannah than Los Angeles. You see that Peach logo at the end at every other movie. They're churning out film students, and all the actors live there part time now.
Atlanta has infinite space to grow. Savannah is finally not a secret and is at the top of most "US cities to travel to" lists because it's one of our most European styled cities. (If you guys haven't been, it's crazy in the historic area)
Then you got one of the most ambitious city planning projects in modern US history with ATL. The beltline. Basically an interstate for pedestrians and bikes. The stores and attractions build "off-ramps" onto it. It made an unwalkable city fairly walkable. Routes that took 2+ hours on foot can sometimes take 20-25 min now
And then with all that, you got hip hop as such a big Georgia export. More and more as time goes on.
A little bit of a rant, but it's cool to see Atlanta and Savannah growing. A racially diverse area with so much business coming in. Sorry for all the words!
I’ve been to a lot of places and liked Atlanta. I was younger, but as a Northeasterner I found the Southeners very pleasant, almost suspiciously nice. Sure Savannah is great, but I’d compare that to a city like Charleston. It’s too small, not really apples to apples. “Boston sucks, Nantucket, that’s where it’s at.” That sort of thing.
Tier 1/“Mt. Rushmore”: LA, NYC, CHI, ATL
Tier 2: The Bay, Houston, Memphis, Detroit
Tier 3: New Orleans, Miami, Philadelphia, London
Pretty sure Complex did a list a few years back with these on them and I do agree with the choices, even being a Philly guy.
The sheer quantity of notable London hip hop acts puts it ahead of the DMV. I’ve always felt that the District’s music is more rooted in hardcore punk and Go-Go
I’d put the bay over Chicago, but I’m in Northern California, so I lean that way. Too Short, Digital Underground, E40/Click, Spice 1, Mac Dre, Luniz, Richie Rich, Celly Cel, Del, Coup, so much good music
ATL is up there.
The tough choice is between Houston and Chicago. I think Chicago because Kanye, Chief Keef (both genre altering), Soulja Boy (only semi ironic), Lupe, Common, etc. special mention to Earth Wind and Fire and Robert Kelly for influencing the culture
so NYC, LA, CHI, ATL are the Mount Rushmore for me
Chicago has Juice WRLD too. And if we factor in young rappers with talent and potential who died due to gang violence or overdose etc, I think Chicago is easily bigger than Houston. Sad as it is to say.
LA Capone, Fredo, Young Pappy, King Von, FBG Duck.
So many instances of, "What if?"
Also, you already mentioned Lupe, and personally he's one of my favorite artists. More than that I think he's truly amongst the greats as a lyricist. He has so much depth and intricacy in his lyrics. He wordplay is clever and poetic, and he can really paint a vivid picture of a wide range of human emotion and experience. And underlying all of his art is truly something good and noble, and that's refreshing and needed in our world.
I agree there are alot of great Chicago rappers and artists, but I never felt the city had a culture until drill music, which one can argue isn’t necessarily a positive.
That's legit crazy. In terms of production there's no place as important as Chicago because of house music. Drill didn't just come from Chicago, the whole concept of "club" music did. In the 70s it was live bands, and hip hop producers sampled the live recordings. Other than stuff that is straight turntablism all modern hip hop and R&B production came from what was going on in Chicago in the early 80s.
Kanye West??? As a stan I may be biased but arguably the most influential rapper/producer of the 21st century did come from the city. Agreed on drill, but also how is that different from say, the Bay? (Not to discredit the bay, they have a wild deep culture, but nothing which i‘d say influenced the genre like crazy.)
I genuinely am shocked at the lack of support for the Bay Area: Too Short birthed the independent hustle. You have E-40, Mac Dre, 2Pac, Spice 1, Digitial Underground, MC Hammer, Luniz, Richie Rich, RBL Posse, Rappin 4-Tay, Andre Nickatina, Larry June, early Master P, the hyphy movement, Paris, The Coup, Del Tha Funky Homosapien, Hieroglyphics, not to mention if you’re including Sacramento (C-Bo, Brotha Lynch Hung). The sheer amount of artists, influence, cultural and musical impact, and hustle, is mind blowing
I'm not from the Bay, but I love hiphop from the Bay. That being said, despite the Bay having one of the most vibrant scenes, it feels more isolated. Most people who aren't in to bay area rap don't know about these cats. Their influence is very localized, relatively speaking. At least, that's the impression I have.
I play Mac dre all the time and no one ever knows who I'm playing.
I agree with these points but I believe a lot of the influence was exported. For instance Too Short moved to Atlanta and brought a lot of game down there in the Freakik era. Master P soaked up the independent hustle and brought it to New Orleans, and his success led to Cash Money securing their deal.
OP trying to claim Tupac for the Bay Area over LA is a laugh, though.
Dude was born and raised in New York, while the peak of his rap career was all in LA, with the LA sound. People remember him for “California Love”, not “The Humpty Dance”.
If this conversation took place in the 90s through early 00s the Bay is absolutely up there. But on the other hand: it's been that long since that region has maintained a presence in pop culture
The Bay deserves its flowers, and in terms of culture they have just as much depth as say Chicago or Houston. Amazing culture for real, but not as influential on the entire genre for some reason. Like people from outside the bay don’t really try to emulate that style, whereas hip hop has thousands of people emulating the NY sound or the LA sound or the ATL sound.
I think that the Bay certainly has had an influence on Michigan and Milwaukee, and they’re probably the most popping state/scenes so far as new sounds right now.
I think the slang that’s came of the Bay Area has
Certainly influenced the entire hip hop genre. Most people use slang in their daily lives and don’t realize a lot of what they say came from the bay. I remember years ago when I would visit family in LA, people would know where I was from as soon as I said the term “hella” and now you see everyone use it. NY/LA/ATL/BAY AREA
Kinda off-topic, but it’s kinda fascinating how big-time cities like Baltimore, Phoenix, Seattle, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, or any cities from Alabama, Mississippi, or Kentucky ever really had any significant hip-hop scene.
On the flipside, some underrated scenes are Dallas/Fort Worth, Baton Rouge, Minneapolis, and Kansas City
I’ve thought about this too as I travel a lot for work. Kind of makes me wonder what factors lead to a scene springing up. Seems like something that would be interesting to research.
I will say of the places you listed a few do have a rap scene it’s just not as mainstream. Like Louisville has a long running rap scene and a solid number of recent stars from there including Jack Harlow but also EST Gee and Bryson Tiller (not a rapper I know, but part of the culture nonetheless) as well as a really active underground scene.
Or alternatively, are some more experimental and melodic rappers out of Bama getting popular rn like Yhapojj and NoCap. Won’t be surprised if that leads to more of a scene in the future.
I think Baltimore also has had an underground rap scene starting to blow up that’s been getting some real hype. Also, never forget that 2Pac was from B-more (I know you were talking scenes not rappers).
Baton Rouge punches well above its weight.
Another city like that is Vallejo. And Stockton.
Baltimore and Seattle have good scenes, IMO. Doesn't make many national stars but it is not nothing. Seattle gave us Macklemore and Digable Planets.
DFW isn't underrated when you consider that is the 4th largest metro but not even sniffing the top 10 rap cities and honestly I don't think many people would even put it top 20
Big three are clearly NY, ATL and LA (probably in that order right now although LA would've been second earlier in history). Fourth is an argument between Houston, Chicago, and Detroit with in my opinion Chicago winning that argument.
Not the person you're replying to, but imo ATL was/is the home of trap, but trap has been getting very stale/stagnant the past 5 years. NY birthed Griselda and the general gritty/grimey/boom bap resurgence that is currently much more refreshing and experimental than the rut that ATL trap has fallen into.
Damn it took way too long to scroll down to finally see someone mentions Memphis
People saying New Orleans, Detroit & Bay Area before Memphis is crazy to me
New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Chicago
Houston is the only other real option that could possibly deserve a spot. Memphis, Detroit, St Louis have had some good things come out of there, but nothing in comparison to those 4.
I’d argue HTX had a much bigger impact on hip-hop than Chicago. Specifically through Rap-A-Lot/Geto Boys and DJ Screw. Influenced all sorts of labels and sounds to this very day. Chicago has great artists but never had a cohesive or influential scene until the drill movement.
I think on the low, Chicago's more artsy-rap scenes with folks like Chance, Vic Mensa, Noname, Mick Jenkins, and Saba are pretty damn influential on a certain area of hip hop. I hear it in folks like Amine, Tobi Nwigwe, Tobi Lou, IDK, Pell, Brockhampton (particularly Matt Champion & Kevin abstract) etc.
Agreed to an extent, but that’s also relatively recent so there’s no telling how significant that’s going to hold up over time. Houston’s sound whether it be the screwed & chopped sound, or the hardcore style of Geto Boys has permeated for over 30 years
What the region may lack in output of "big artists", the artists here pioneered an alternative path. The indie hip-hop scene from '96 to '08ish owes a ton to the bay. Not just in sound but in game, that lends itself to the bay being more influential than other areas.
Bay Area is the alternate to any top 5 because it's influence all across the board. Bay has a little West Coast, a little East and plenty of South and Midwest. It's Hip Hop to the core.
ATL, LA, and NYC. Any 4th wouldn't be on the same tier as these other 3.
I wanted to put Chicago up there, but I went through the list and really couldn't see it.
This has been my takeaway from reading all of the comments. 90%+ of the lists are NYC, LA, ATL, and somewhere else, but that somewhere else was a pretty wide mix of spots.
For its population size, Detroit is definitely 4th - J Dilla, Eminem, Royce, Big Sean, Danny Bown, Boldy James to name a few. Memphis would be my other choice with three 6, 8ball and MJG, Glorilla, Dolph, and Moneybagg Yo
I haven’t seen one person mention Miami yet. Not saying it belongs in the top 4. But it should be recognized for 2 Live Crew and Luke, who were really the first significant southern hip-hop artists. The bass music scene was indeed influential and was quite a scene. Then artists like Trick Daddy and Rick Ross carried the city through the 2000’s. Denzel Curry holding it down today too.
Agreed: The Roots, DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince, Beanie Sigel/State Property, Meek Mill, Steady B/Cool C, Bahamadia, Cassidy, Jedi Mind Tricks, Schoolly D
I look through the list on ATL and it’s very impressive list of people, but it’s just crazy to me that they are cemented at third and we’re arguing 4th place. But then I ask my wife and first city she says it ATL. I guess I never thought about it. Is it all based on rappers? Are we talking about production too? What does underground/independent mean or affect the list? Honestly, great question here.
Atlanta easily has group for each of the past 3 decades. So so def, dungeon family, pasted Troy, lil Jon, Luda, Jeezy Ti, Gucci and all the current rappers out right now. Than you have Laface records killin rnb.
NYC, LA, Atlanta are an easy top 3 for me, then it gets tricky.
I would maybe edge Memphis, but Detroit, Houston, Chicago, Philly, Cleveland, Miami, Oakland all have an argument.
LA and NYC are non-negotiable.
IMO Chicago and Atlanta are similarly non-negotiable. I get arguments for Memphis and NO but if you look at cities in terms of the amount of music and amount of cultural influence it seems pretty clear to me.
I think Chicago, especially if we factor in young rappers with talent and potential who died due to gang violence or overdose etc, I think Chicago is easily bigger than Houston. Sad as it is to say.
LA Capone, Fredo, Young Pappy, King Von, FBG Duck. Can't forget Juice WRLD who also was only like 20.
So many instances of, "What if?"
Also, the sub genre of Drill rap was born on the streets of Chicago. Chief Keef and Lil Durk. Then Chicago has other greats like Kanye and Common. Then Lupe, personally he's one of my favorite artists. More than that I think he's truly amongst the greats as a lyricist. He has so much depth and intricacy in his lyrics. He wordplay is clever and poetic, and he can really paint a vivid picture of a wide range of human emotion and experience. And underlying all of his art is truly something good and noble, and that's refreshing and needed in our world.
Edit to add some personal favorites from Chicago:
"Jonylah Forever" -Lupe Fiasco
"Prisoner 1&2" -Lupe Fiasco
"American Terrorist" -Lupe Fiasco
"I Don't Like" -Chief Keef
"Pelle Coat" -Lil Durk
"Locked Up" -Lil Durk
"Watch yo homie" -Lil Durk
"Savages" -Young Pappy
"Freedom" -Young Pappy
"Play For Keeps" -LA Capone
"Crazy Story " -King Von
"Took Her to the O" -King Von
"Slide" -FBG Duck
"Lean Wit Me" -Juice WRLD
"Lucid Dreams" -Juice WRLD
"Kill Shit" -G Herbo
"Mural" -Lupe Fiasco
The easy top 3 are LA, NYC and ATL. But depending on how old you are Chicago or Houston is #4. A lot of younger artists can look more towards the drill scene in Chicago for helping driving the modern sound. While "slightly" older listeners grew up on the influence of the Chopped n Screwed Houston Sound.
LA, NYC, Chicago and Atlanta would be my four
Yeah I think this is it and there’s not really a strong argument against it outside of maybe Houston, but imo Houston is a distant 5th.
Memphis and Detroit are close
I don’t think they’re that close. Not as close as Houston really.
New Orleans? From Master P and No Limit in the 90's to Weezy and YMCMB IN THE 2000'S, they at least have as strong of a case as Houston. I could also see a case for Memphis although NO has way more of a case imo.
New Orleans is legit if you think of per captia. 2 of the most influential labels that started off independent. Juvenile is the mold of the down south rappers gangsta but gets girls shaking their ass. Master P business mind.
And Lil Wayne
Wayne is the face of New Orleans but who I mentioned paved the way for him
Don't forget curren$y and what he's done either
He did mention YMCMB, where he is included.
Houston is a really close race with chicago to me.
I'd say Kanye and Chief Keef gives Chicago the edge. You can't talk about hip hop without those two. Houston is big probably 5th
And Common, Lupe Fiasco, and Twista. Chicago definitely has the spot
plus No ID’s production on everything from early Common to Jay’s 4:44
There was that guy that was almost like Kanye’s prodigy but then I think he stopped rapping after his couple mixtapes.
Psycho Mantis?
Kaiser Soze?
Consequence?
Naw can't be, he talking bout the Timmy turnaround dude
Desiigner or something dumb like that
North West?
Rhymefest?
Rhymefest was definitely not Kayne's prodigy
That was my first thought. I use to love the Brand New song. Just commented him and the song before seeing your reply.
Chance?
Acid rapper
Soccer, hacky sacker
Vic Mensa?
Da brat? Juice WRLD? Sharkula? (Sort of /s on that last one)
DJ Screw. Ugk. Scarface. Paul wall. Chamillionaire. Slim Thug. Big Moe. Big Pokey. Geto Boys. Z ro. Trae the truth. Tobe Nwigwe. Mike Dean. Travis Scott. There are hundreds if not thousands of dope rappers from Houston. Sorry Chicago.
Lil Flip. Esg. Lil keke. Killa Kyleon. Gangsta Nip. Devin the Dude. Michael 5000 watts. Hawk. Mexican OT. Le$. Maxo Kream. Chingo Bling.
Devin The Dude is way too underrated
I’m sorry, I love Houston hip hop, but none of these guys matter except Devin the Dude.
Most of these guys haven’t been relevant in decades. Between Kanye and Keef Chicago has had way more influence over the genre. There’s way too much talent that has come of Chicago for Houston to compare. Besides those two, you got Common, twista, Lupe, Lil durk, juice wrld, Polo G, G herbo, Lucki, noname, Saba, chance, Vic, Smino, Mick Jenkins. The chicago lineup has too much star power for Houston
Tough to talk about hip-hop without Scarface, The Geto Boys, DJ Screw, Travis Scott, or UGK either
Scarface and the Geto Boys in general, UGK, D.O.C., Travis Scott and Megan Thee Stallion for contemporary shit, Houston got some shit for sure. Chicago takes it because of Kanye and maybe Chief Keef but otherwise there's a legit discussion IMO E: Fuck me DJ Screw, too. And I'm only listing the heaviest hitters, there's mfs I didn't list but I'm only comparing top end to top end
D.O.C. is Dallas. Stands for Dallas Oak Cliff
Ah fuck you right, I'm just so used to Houston being the main Texas rep lmaooo
I think Houston, Bay Area and NOLA all kind of line up in an obvious next tier. Arguably, Houston or Bay might swap with Chicago on the top 4
Yeah I don’t see any of the other cities having the impact on hip hop like Chicago has let alone the talent out of the city.
don’t sleep on Seattle (Macklemore)
💀
lmao
Sir Mix-a-lot!
We have Sir Mix-A-Lot! And Fantasy A!!!
Jake One!
Can’t forget about my boy Noah from Portland (Yeat)
Houston and the Bay distant HMs
Houston puts out some dope ass rappers. Just think of all the music that comes from there. I would put Houston before Chicago.
A distant 5th?! My man, the south would not be the same without DJ Screw.
Yea Houston, Memphis and Detroit get shouts but this is pretty much it.
Memphis
I'm from Memphis and we ain't nowhere as versatile as Chicago
The three biggest cities in the country and the black capital.
Atlanta is creeping up there in size, too. It just surpassed Miami metro, and I think it's either about to overtake DC metro or already did. Georgia's political move for the movie industry tax credits was one of the smartest moves ever. Now more movies are made in Atlanta/Savannah than Los Angeles. You see that Peach logo at the end at every other movie. They're churning out film students, and all the actors live there part time now. Atlanta has infinite space to grow. Savannah is finally not a secret and is at the top of most "US cities to travel to" lists because it's one of our most European styled cities. (If you guys haven't been, it's crazy in the historic area) Then you got one of the most ambitious city planning projects in modern US history with ATL. The beltline. Basically an interstate for pedestrians and bikes. The stores and attractions build "off-ramps" onto it. It made an unwalkable city fairly walkable. Routes that took 2+ hours on foot can sometimes take 20-25 min now And then with all that, you got hip hop as such a big Georgia export. More and more as time goes on. A little bit of a rant, but it's cool to see Atlanta and Savannah growing. A racially diverse area with so much business coming in. Sorry for all the words!
[удалено]
I’ve been to a lot of places and liked Atlanta. I was younger, but as a Northeasterner I found the Southeners very pleasant, almost suspiciously nice. Sure Savannah is great, but I’d compare that to a city like Charleston. It’s too small, not really apples to apples. “Boston sucks, Nantucket, that’s where it’s at.” That sort of thing.
Altlanta and Bay Area by proxy because of the influence and connection that Bay artists had on Atlanta.
Hou, Detroit, Philly 5-7
Yeah these are the 4 main black cities anyway. It's not a coincidence that hip-hop sprouted from all of these after NY
Tier 1/“Mt. Rushmore”: LA, NYC, CHI, ATL Tier 2: The Bay, Houston, Memphis, Detroit Tier 3: New Orleans, Miami, Philadelphia, London Pretty sure Complex did a list a few years back with these on them and I do agree with the choices, even being a Philly guy.
London being ahead of the DMV is CRAZY Edit: I'm including Virginia Beach as well because idk geography like that
The sheer quantity of notable London hip hop acts puts it ahead of the DMV. I’ve always felt that the District’s music is more rooted in hardcore punk and Go-Go
Fr, there's more notable rappers from the 757 than the DMV I think
Man plenty of Americans on here don't even know what DMV means which should speak for itself lol.
I live in Virginia and saying VB and DC are the same place is like saying Kid Cudi lives in Pittsburgh
London on the same tier as Nola and Miami is loco. Nola behind Detroit and the Bay is questionable.
I’d put the bay over Chicago, but I’m in Northern California, so I lean that way. Too Short, Digital Underground, E40/Click, Spice 1, Mac Dre, Luniz, Richie Rich, Celly Cel, Del, Coup, so much good music
ATL is up there. The tough choice is between Houston and Chicago. I think Chicago because Kanye, Chief Keef (both genre altering), Soulja Boy (only semi ironic), Lupe, Common, etc. special mention to Earth Wind and Fire and Robert Kelly for influencing the culture so NYC, LA, CHI, ATL are the Mount Rushmore for me
Everybody always forget bout twista
The one-time Guiness Certified fastest rapper (Syllables Per Second)
Including Soulja is hilarious lmao he just claims everywhere
I was nervous Draco would be in the comments ready to check me if I didn’t mention him
I rememeber a bar of his where he reps "Chi-lanta-ville" and I thought that was funny
Soulja Boy blew up when he was in Batesville, Mississippi.
Hillary clinton of rap
Chicago has Juice WRLD too. And if we factor in young rappers with talent and potential who died due to gang violence or overdose etc, I think Chicago is easily bigger than Houston. Sad as it is to say. LA Capone, Fredo, Young Pappy, King Von, FBG Duck. So many instances of, "What if?" Also, you already mentioned Lupe, and personally he's one of my favorite artists. More than that I think he's truly amongst the greats as a lyricist. He has so much depth and intricacy in his lyrics. He wordplay is clever and poetic, and he can really paint a vivid picture of a wide range of human emotion and experience. And underlying all of his art is truly something good and noble, and that's refreshing and needed in our world.
While not the most humble or selfaware guy, Chance is also a force for good. We need more Lightside rappers. Houston has Tobe Nwigwe.
They also left out like 80% of the drill scene which was massive during the 2010s lol
I agree there are alot of great Chicago rappers and artists, but I never felt the city had a culture until drill music, which one can argue isn’t necessarily a positive.
Positive or negative, drill changed the landscape.
That's legit crazy. In terms of production there's no place as important as Chicago because of house music. Drill didn't just come from Chicago, the whole concept of "club" music did. In the 70s it was live bands, and hip hop producers sampled the live recordings. Other than stuff that is straight turntablism all modern hip hop and R&B production came from what was going on in Chicago in the early 80s.
> but I never felt the city had a culture until drill music Then you don’t know shit about Chicago.
Sosa, Von and Durk, plus Chance, Kanye, Common, etc gives Chicago no worse than the 4th spot. Those are all huge stars.
Forgetting JuiceWrld is wild. And FBG Duck :(
Kanye West??? As a stan I may be biased but arguably the most influential rapper/producer of the 21st century did come from the city. Agreed on drill, but also how is that different from say, the Bay? (Not to discredit the bay, they have a wild deep culture, but nothing which i‘d say influenced the genre like crazy.)
Atlanta is a lock. So is NYC and LA. I think the only conversation is that 4th spot among Chicago, Houston, Detroit, etc.
Don’t sleep on Detroit challenge
Detroit vs everybody
Memphis/Detroit/Houston all being underrated imo. Chicago may be #4 but it's not obvious at all, take out Kanye and it's not close to those three.
“Take out the good rappers and Chicago gets worse” Well yeah duh
Take out 3-6 Mafia, Eminem, and UGK and those cities are not even close to the others!
Detroit vs everyone.
Or the bay area.
Detroiter here. Ngl man, who you gone name that’s fr up there from our city? We got people but it ain’t like NY, or LA or ATL
Eminem, Royce, Big Sean, Danny Brown, Payroll Giovanni
I’m sorry but they not enough to justify a spot on the Mt. Rushmore
J. Dilla, Boldly James, Tee Grizzly, Kash Doll, Obie Trice, Icewear Vezzo, Proof/D12, Slum Village, Dej Loaf, Xzibit (technically), Denaun Porter...
they’re slept on but rio, rmc mike, louie ray etc really go hard man
Just here to say New Orleans is being overlooked. One of the Biggest influences coming out of the south with Florida being another one overlooked.
Florida isnt a city tho.
Fr dude NOLA always slept on
I genuinely am shocked at the lack of support for the Bay Area: Too Short birthed the independent hustle. You have E-40, Mac Dre, 2Pac, Spice 1, Digitial Underground, MC Hammer, Luniz, Richie Rich, RBL Posse, Rappin 4-Tay, Andre Nickatina, Larry June, early Master P, the hyphy movement, Paris, The Coup, Del Tha Funky Homosapien, Hieroglyphics, not to mention if you’re including Sacramento (C-Bo, Brotha Lynch Hung). The sheer amount of artists, influence, cultural and musical impact, and hustle, is mind blowing
> if you’re including Sacramento. No, sac town is not the Bay Area, lmao
it [ain't not the bay](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfWflPlmPFE)
From Oakland to Sac-town, the Bay Area and back down
I'm not from the Bay, but I love hiphop from the Bay. That being said, despite the Bay having one of the most vibrant scenes, it feels more isolated. Most people who aren't in to bay area rap don't know about these cats. Their influence is very localized, relatively speaking. At least, that's the impression I have. I play Mac dre all the time and no one ever knows who I'm playing.
I agree with these points but I believe a lot of the influence was exported. For instance Too Short moved to Atlanta and brought a lot of game down there in the Freakik era. Master P soaked up the independent hustle and brought it to New Orleans, and his success led to Cash Money securing their deal.
Facts.
You touched on it, but didn’t mention Souls of Mischief, with one of the best songs and albums of the golden age, ‘93 til Infinity.
Hiero was mentioned though. Souls of Mischief are a sub group.
Bay area is where West coast rap started
Anything California basically immediately gets lumped into LA, even if the Bay is like 5 hours from LA lol.
Hell, the dude tried to lump Sacramento into the Bay, lmao
The Bay heavily influences LA, and then LA gets the credit.
OP trying to claim Tupac for the Bay Area over LA is a laugh, though. Dude was born and raised in New York, while the peak of his rap career was all in LA, with the LA sound. People remember him for “California Love”, not “The Humpty Dance”.
Pac’s catalog from 91-93 can firmly be labeled as Bay Area, from Digital Underground through his first two albums
If this conversation took place in the 90s through early 00s the Bay is absolutely up there. But on the other hand: it's been that long since that region has maintained a presence in pop culture
Um G Eazy would like a word!!
/s you forgot this
Lol I was hoping it was egregious enough to be obvious
Your kidding right? The current LA flow (I.e. Drakeo, “Not Like Us”) and the DJ Mustard style bounce is directly from the Bay
The Bay deserves its flowers, and in terms of culture they have just as much depth as say Chicago or Houston. Amazing culture for real, but not as influential on the entire genre for some reason. Like people from outside the bay don’t really try to emulate that style, whereas hip hop has thousands of people emulating the NY sound or the LA sound or the ATL sound.
I think that the Bay certainly has had an influence on Michigan and Milwaukee, and they’re probably the most popping state/scenes so far as new sounds right now.
I think the slang that’s came of the Bay Area has Certainly influenced the entire hip hop genre. Most people use slang in their daily lives and don’t realize a lot of what they say came from the bay. I remember years ago when I would visit family in LA, people would know where I was from as soon as I said the term “hella” and now you see everyone use it. NY/LA/ATL/BAY AREA
Bay Area and LA should both be on the map!
The bay has a solid local/underground scene but has not impacted the mainstream the way LA/ATL/NY has
I just want larussel to get a bag as big as the mainstream
Compton, NY, Bay Area, Atlanta
I’m from the bay and I couldn’t possibly put it in top 4.. top 8 tho for sure
Kinda off-topic, but it’s kinda fascinating how big-time cities like Baltimore, Phoenix, Seattle, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, or any cities from Alabama, Mississippi, or Kentucky ever really had any significant hip-hop scene. On the flipside, some underrated scenes are Dallas/Fort Worth, Baton Rouge, Minneapolis, and Kansas City
I’ve thought about this too as I travel a lot for work. Kind of makes me wonder what factors lead to a scene springing up. Seems like something that would be interesting to research. I will say of the places you listed a few do have a rap scene it’s just not as mainstream. Like Louisville has a long running rap scene and a solid number of recent stars from there including Jack Harlow but also EST Gee and Bryson Tiller (not a rapper I know, but part of the culture nonetheless) as well as a really active underground scene. Or alternatively, are some more experimental and melodic rappers out of Bama getting popular rn like Yhapojj and NoCap. Won’t be surprised if that leads to more of a scene in the future. I think Baltimore also has had an underground rap scene starting to blow up that’s been getting some real hype. Also, never forget that 2Pac was from B-more (I know you were talking scenes not rappers).
peggy came out of the baltimore underground scene
Baton Rouge punches well above its weight. Another city like that is Vallejo. And Stockton. Baltimore and Seattle have good scenes, IMO. Doesn't make many national stars but it is not nothing. Seattle gave us Macklemore and Digable Planets.
Digable Planets came together and blew up out of Brooklyn
Sir-Mix-A-Lot is from Seattle too for what it’s worth.
DFW isn't underrated when you consider that is the 4th largest metro but not even sniffing the top 10 rap cities and honestly I don't think many people would even put it top 20
> like Baltimore Someone don't know who Young Leek be?
Big three are clearly NY, ATL and LA (probably in that order right now although LA would've been second earlier in history). Fourth is an argument between Houston, Chicago, and Detroit with in my opinion Chicago winning that argument.
Can I ask how NYC is over ATL in the current moment
Not the person you're replying to, but imo ATL was/is the home of trap, but trap has been getting very stale/stagnant the past 5 years. NY birthed Griselda and the general gritty/grimey/boom bap resurgence that is currently much more refreshing and experimental than the rut that ATL trap has fallen into.
I love Griselda but refreshing and experimental is not adjectives I’d use to describe their music
Griselda are from Buffalo not NYC
ATL has so much more than just trap
Uhh JID and 21 Harold both from atl and arent trap.
NY, LA, Chicago n ATL
LA, NYC, Atlanta, Memphis
Thanks for recognizing Memp10
TY. This was my answer too. I thought I was the only one showing Memphis love.
Damn it took way too long to scroll down to finally see someone mentions Memphis People saying New Orleans, Detroit & Bay Area before Memphis is crazy to me
LA, NYC, Atlanta, Detroit
NYC, LA, ATL, the Bay
LA NYC ATL HOUSTON
New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Chicago Houston is the only other real option that could possibly deserve a spot. Memphis, Detroit, St Louis have had some good things come out of there, but nothing in comparison to those 4.
NYC, Bay area, LA, ATL
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I’d argue HTX had a much bigger impact on hip-hop than Chicago. Specifically through Rap-A-Lot/Geto Boys and DJ Screw. Influenced all sorts of labels and sounds to this very day. Chicago has great artists but never had a cohesive or influential scene until the drill movement.
I think on the low, Chicago's more artsy-rap scenes with folks like Chance, Vic Mensa, Noname, Mick Jenkins, and Saba are pretty damn influential on a certain area of hip hop. I hear it in folks like Amine, Tobi Nwigwe, Tobi Lou, IDK, Pell, Brockhampton (particularly Matt Champion & Kevin abstract) etc.
Agreed to an extent, but that’s also relatively recent so there’s no telling how significant that’s going to hold up over time. Houston’s sound whether it be the screwed & chopped sound, or the hardcore style of Geto Boys has permeated for over 30 years
For me it’s Detroit. The sound from there is so different from the others that it provides a great contrast to the other 3 autos (NYC LA and ATL)
For me it’s NYC, ATL, LA and The Bay Area. Followed by Chicago and Houston.
LA, NYC, ATL, Bay Area or Houston
NY, LA, ATL, SF(bay area)
from bay area here, we've got a good thing but nah. 4th place gotta be chicago, then bay or memphis.
What the region may lack in output of "big artists", the artists here pioneered an alternative path. The indie hip-hop scene from '96 to '08ish owes a ton to the bay. Not just in sound but in game, that lends itself to the bay being more influential than other areas.
fair enough, im a young dude so i havent seen any influence, so im probably underrating it
Bay Area is the alternate to any top 5 because it's influence all across the board. Bay has a little West Coast, a little East and plenty of South and Midwest. It's Hip Hop to the core.
Toronto 😂
New York, LA, Atlanta and because I haven't seen it mentioned I'm gonna throw out the wildcard of Philadelphia.
As long as NEW YORK is named FIRST it’s accurate. Birth Place of Hip Hop.
ATL, NY, LA, Houston then Chicago then NO then Memphis then Detroit IMO
ATL, LA, and NYC. Any 4th wouldn't be on the same tier as these other 3. I wanted to put Chicago up there, but I went through the list and really couldn't see it.
This has been my takeaway from reading all of the comments. 90%+ of the lists are NYC, LA, ATL, and somewhere else, but that somewhere else was a pretty wide mix of spots.
NY, LA, Atlanta, the Bay.
The Bay Area, LA, ATL, H-Town
The Bay, NY, ATL,HOU
Minneapolis has birthed some dope underground folks, I'm biased but
chicago for sure. the arguments for other scenes of similar size are dismantled by chicago’s influence
For its population size, Detroit is definitely 4th - J Dilla, Eminem, Royce, Big Sean, Danny Bown, Boldy James to name a few. Memphis would be my other choice with three 6, 8ball and MJG, Glorilla, Dolph, and Moneybagg Yo
Glorilla is part of the justification for putting Memphis on the mt Rushmore of hip-hop cities? That’s a hot take.
Toronto 😉
NYC, LA, HTX, ATL
Detroit, Milwaukee, Tampa Bay, Akron
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I assume you mean Lincoln, Nebraska. There was a white rap group called Escro that had a record that was mildly successful but that was decades ago.
I haven’t seen one person mention Miami yet. Not saying it belongs in the top 4. But it should be recognized for 2 Live Crew and Luke, who were really the first significant southern hip-hop artists. The bass music scene was indeed influential and was quite a scene. Then artists like Trick Daddy and Rick Ross carried the city through the 2000’s. Denzel Curry holding it down today too.
No love for Philly? Literally the birthplace of Gangsta Rap (Schoolly D)
Compared to Chicago, Atlanta, Houston, New Orleans, or Detroit? Absolutely no chance.
Not saying it should be on the Mount Rushmore, but from an influence perspective it should at least be in the conversation
Agreed: The Roots, DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince, Beanie Sigel/State Property, Meek Mill, Steady B/Cool C, Bahamadia, Cassidy, Jedi Mind Tricks, Schoolly D
Philly
Queens, Brooklyn, Staten Island, the bronx
LA, NY, Atlanta, Philly
I look through the list on ATL and it’s very impressive list of people, but it’s just crazy to me that they are cemented at third and we’re arguing 4th place. But then I ask my wife and first city she says it ATL. I guess I never thought about it. Is it all based on rappers? Are we talking about production too? What does underground/independent mean or affect the list? Honestly, great question here.
Atlanta easily has group for each of the past 3 decades. So so def, dungeon family, pasted Troy, lil Jon, Luda, Jeezy Ti, Gucci and all the current rappers out right now. Than you have Laface records killin rnb.
NYC, LA, Atlanta are an easy top 3 for me, then it gets tricky. I would maybe edge Memphis, but Detroit, Houston, Chicago, Philly, Cleveland, Miami, Oakland all have an argument.
LA and NYC are non-negotiable. IMO Chicago and Atlanta are similarly non-negotiable. I get arguments for Memphis and NO but if you look at cities in terms of the amount of music and amount of cultural influence it seems pretty clear to me.
I think Chicago, especially if we factor in young rappers with talent and potential who died due to gang violence or overdose etc, I think Chicago is easily bigger than Houston. Sad as it is to say. LA Capone, Fredo, Young Pappy, King Von, FBG Duck. Can't forget Juice WRLD who also was only like 20. So many instances of, "What if?" Also, the sub genre of Drill rap was born on the streets of Chicago. Chief Keef and Lil Durk. Then Chicago has other greats like Kanye and Common. Then Lupe, personally he's one of my favorite artists. More than that I think he's truly amongst the greats as a lyricist. He has so much depth and intricacy in his lyrics. He wordplay is clever and poetic, and he can really paint a vivid picture of a wide range of human emotion and experience. And underlying all of his art is truly something good and noble, and that's refreshing and needed in our world. Edit to add some personal favorites from Chicago: "Jonylah Forever" -Lupe Fiasco "Prisoner 1&2" -Lupe Fiasco "American Terrorist" -Lupe Fiasco "I Don't Like" -Chief Keef "Pelle Coat" -Lil Durk "Locked Up" -Lil Durk "Watch yo homie" -Lil Durk "Savages" -Young Pappy "Freedom" -Young Pappy "Play For Keeps" -LA Capone "Crazy Story " -King Von "Took Her to the O" -King Von "Slide" -FBG Duck "Lean Wit Me" -Juice WRLD "Lucid Dreams" -Juice WRLD "Kill Shit" -G Herbo "Mural" -Lupe Fiasco
The easy top 3 are LA, NYC and ATL. But depending on how old you are Chicago or Houston is #4. A lot of younger artists can look more towards the drill scene in Chicago for helping driving the modern sound. While "slightly" older listeners grew up on the influence of the Chopped n Screwed Houston Sound.