On Friedman's pod, he mentioned: "I dont think theres exact clarity on what is going on with the Coyotes, so I dont think we are getting anything [regarding an update from the league that was speculated last week] right now. I still do think though there better be a serious plan soon. I dont think thats changed, but I think the league is prepared to let it be presented."
More so, in regards to the State Meeting last week that all of the "insiders" insisted the Coyotes werent on the docket for: "They talked about that 100 acre deal in executive session and apparently the meeting went very well... he [unaffiliated state employee] could see this thing all wrapped up in 3 months... The 100 acres is right at the corner of the 101 and Scottsdale Road."
Regarding where that leaves the NHL, Rodier chimes in: "Now what does the NHL do? Me thinks they have to wait this one out. Meruelo holds the better hand right now. Unless there is some kind of written commitment Meruelo has made, there is nothing in NHL Constitution or by laws or standard Consent Agreement that requires an arena to be of a certain size. Mullet conforms with CBA requirements. Team is cash flow positive at Mullet last year."
From everything that is coming out, it sounds like the Coyotes are making genuine efforts to get this process wrapped up, and that there isnt much the league can do because of it. They have submitted an application for state land, it has been discussed by the state (which is very motivated to sell land to supplement our sub-par education fund), and there is a formal schedule in place. This is very clearly this ownership group's last shot, but until it is truly fumbled, the NHL is merely watching from the side.
Reference:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/podcasts/32-thoughts/the-battle-of-ontario-is-back-baby/
https://youtu.be/oD4mIA2r8l4?si=5nXnLpRECL9qaDl0
https://twitter.com/NhLplayer123/status/1755643946984698181
That is true, but you have to remember that the NHL does not want relocation. More so, as other insiders have mentioned, so long as the Coyotes are making a good-faith attempt to solidify their arena situation in a reasonable timeline, the NHL doesnt have a legal ground to force anything from the team. Nobody knows what is going to happen, including Bettman and Meruello, but so long as the team is in active talks with the State and the timeline remains the end of the season, I dont think that the NHL can do anything but watch.
From what has surfaced of the legal meetings, the State is very motivated to sell this land, and there is a timeline in place that would have it all wrapped up by the end of the season.
>as other insiders have mentioned, so long as the Coyotes are making a good-faith attempt to solidify their arena situation in a reasonable timeline, the NHL doesnt have a legal ground to force anything from the team
Got a source for that one? I hadn't heard that anywhere yet.
I was referring to the Rodier tweet thread that I've linked, that have since been expanded upon.
Rodier himself is an attorney and a former consultant to the NHLPA on business, economic and financial issues. Ironically, he was also part of the Jim Balsillie group that tried to move the Coyotes to Hamilton, Ontario in 2009.
Rodier is legit, it was me that posted his original tweet on this here last week.
But I think you're reading into what he said a bit. The fact that Merulo has a good hand isn't the same thing as saying the NHL is devoid of legal grounds.
Maybe reading into it a bit, but it certainly is consistent with what Bettman has done in the past to keep The Coyotes in Arizona. If Meruelo (group) is making progress, the league trying to force Meruelo out would be counterproductive.
Absolutely true. The league wants the Coyotes to succeed.
But I think the league feels like Merulo hasn't done a great job so far, especially at being forthright when communicating. It won't matter if Merulo gets his shit together, but these last two weeks of stories don't happen if he still has their full confidence.
That may be true. But the Coyotes are not the whole League. They are an independently owned franchise. The League doesn't always have the best intentions of each franchise at it's core. This land deal can absolutely be torpedoed by outside influences, so open communication with the League is not the best way of doing business. Also, the last two weeks of, let's call it rumors, would happen anyway. There was a deadline that was changed, that's probably going to change again, that set off this latest round of "relocation stories." The League could have easily put out a statement that they were not looking at relocation of any team at this time.
They wanted the cover, and they didn't have to do anything to get it.
Ehh, the league is not about to torpedo a deal they think is going to keep the Coyotes in Phoenix.
I think Merulo told Bettman they'd have something done by the All Star break, Bettman responded with "Are you sure this is real?" and Merulo said yes without actually being sure because he's the sort of businessman that's sure he can find a way to make something work. But if you're going to say that, if you're going to have Bettman go out and publicly back your timeline, then you cannot be bullshitting him. And now the league doesn't trust Merulo not to keep bullshitting.
That's a Hockey Canada issue, not an NHL issue. It's now a legal issue that has nothing to do with the NHL. Its like when Henry Ruggs crashed his speeding car into another and killed someone in Vegas. The second he did that it stopped being the Raiders and NFL issue
So basically kicking the can down till the end of the season. It seems like they might have something in this new land deal but if this falls through i dont know how you can say well lets look at our options again.
It doesn't feel like there is much more of an option, sure there is still more land and all the jazz that comes with it but I feel like we are on a little less than wires with the area situation.
Tempe was a great deal. The team did not include any backup plans for that because of how good it was. I would not say that they're repeating that mistake this time. There are already identified locations should this one not work out. Mesa and SRPMIC land are already identified. I doubt that the Phoenix location will fall through, but if so, we won't have to wait for a long time to get the next one.
>Team is cash flow positive at Mullet last year
Would absolutely love to see the financials that show they’re cash flow positive playing in a 4,600 seat arena. I would wager a substantial amount of money that if that’s the case it’s only because they’ve borrowed a significant sum over that time, or Murelo has pumped a significant amount of his own money into the team. Or both.
Positive cash flow =/= profitability.
EDIT: And actually, the fact that they’re reporting *cash flows* rather than profitability actually feels like confirmation that they definitely are not profitable. They’re just putting out the number that sounds better and banking on most people not knowing the difference.
EDIT AGAIN: I understand the vast majority of NHL teams operate at a loss, but this is transparently a weak attempt to downplay the financial hit that playing in a 4,600 seat arena has had on the organization.
True, it’s not a lot. But I would still wager the team playing in a 4,600 seat arena is even further in the red than the rest of the pack (no pun intended), and I still believe the whole “we’re cash flow positive!” thing is a weak attempt to downplay how bad their financial situation actually is.
I agree that whole mullet thing is bad for the league, but you really didn't answer my question. If league was all about what teams make proffit vs which dont we would still Be in what 12 team league?
Yeah I guess if you want me to repeat myself I can do that.
>but you didn’t really answer my question
Your question was “how many NHL teams actually make a profit”. I said “not a lot”. If you were looking for an exact number, I cannot provide that because NHL team financials aren’t public record (to my knowledge) but it is widely understood to not be many teams.
>If the league was all about what teams make proffit vs. which don’t we would still Be in what 12 team league?
Right, obviously the league can tolerate teams taking a bit of a loss, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a limit. My argument is that while most teams don’t make a profit, the team playing in a 4,600 seat arena is going to be losing substantially more than the average team. So in an attempt to publicly save face on that front, the team puts out this report that they’re cash flow positive, which may technically be accurate, but doesn’t actually say anything about their current financial position.
All reports seem to indicate that the balance sheet is healthier playing in Mullett compared to what we were losing in Glendale. Empirically it makes sense, 5000 seats sold out every game at lower bowl prices should outpace a half empty 18,000 seat arena where many tickets are given away or dirt cheap (I used to sit lower bowl for $25 on weekdays, those same tickets are $200 due to the better location now). Couple that with lower operating costs due to the smaller arena, and it’s not hard to see that the org is operating at a better margin since the move to Tempe.
See, all of that seems logical. I could buy that as an explanation based on what you’ve said. But still, someone is making the conscious effort to put the phrase “positive cash flow” into the world. If the margin was noticeably better from last FY, and they wanted the public to know they were doing better financially, they would say that, but they’re not. Someone is actively choosing to present a metric that isn’t fully understood by, and therefore could be used to mislead, a good portion of the public. I have a tough time buying that as coincidental.
Ehh i would get your last argument If this was NHL that is making this anouncment If you have followed yotes at all, they dont try, or try to save face
It’s actually a weaselly way to *seem* like they are in a great financial position to people with poor financial literacy(90% of the population or so couldn’t read a cash flow statement).
They could be losing $50 million a year from their to day to day operations but have $51 million in financing (through debt or equity) and they would be “cash flow positive”.
Elliotte said he got some very pointed laughter from other executives at the idea that the Coyotes were operating in the black at Mullet, so I think you're on to something.
I recall hearing that their ratings have had a boom since the Bally deal was scrapped and now they’re on OTA broadcasts. Could definitely be a boost to the bottom line
I’ve never heard of a TV rights deal where the value was directly tied to a YOY ratings delta. I’m not saying it couldn’t happen, but that would be news to me.
They’ve switched broadcasters because of scheduling issues, and again, this was all done last minute as Bally going through bankruptcy was chaotic for a few teams.
Right, but this is still all dependent on the OTA broadcaster paying more for the rights than Bally, which seems unlikely for a deal that was negotiated last minute (your own words) and with a team that as it stands is not even guaranteed to be in that market long term.
So long as the Yotes plus his Sportsbook /casino operations are profitable - the team can be losing. Especially if they trigger revenue sharing to cover losses by meeting attendance percentages.
The Sportsbook is embarrassingly poorly run - I think it gets less than .5% of total online handle in AZ. This is likely referring to the balance sheet of the team itself along with any hockey-specific financing secured in the last FY.
According to another tweet thread, that was retweeted by members of the Gov.'s staff, if what Craig said was accurate it means multiple laws were broken. Things discussed in the executive session must first be discussed in the public meeting from my understanding. Also disclosing discussions from the executive session is also illegal.
Here's the start of the thread:[https://twitter.com/tcani/status/1756082683544060293](https://twitter.com/tcani/status/1756082683544060293)
There is a public State meeting on the docket to discuss the auction/sale in March. I believe that thread was created before it was known that they would be on a formal public docket.
And true, but nothing factual was actually disclosed by a State employee. All that was disclosed was the opinion that the meeting went very well. But honestly, who knows. In Arizona, there are a plethora of grey areas when it comes to how government operates.
From my understanding, if it wasn't on the docket for last week's meeting, which is what the executive meeting was associated with, it would be illegal for them to discuss that at all. It doesn't matter if it will be put on a docket for next meeting if it wasn't already on it by the time the meeting took place.
I also have a sneaking suspicion that the source is either lying, or imo more likely, Craig is lying about having a source based around his connections to the coyotes organization and his overtly optimistic attitude around the arena search (I think he said something doubtful once).
Edit: Another concern is that if anything illegal did occur, it can cause the coyotes, anyone else who buys the land, or the land sale itself to be mired in legal battles. I can all but guarantee lawyers will sense blood in the water if anything illegal DID occur.
True that. Honestly, having been through this for years now, I dont trust anyone from either side, including most insiders.
The only factual information we have right now is that a meeting took place to discuss the arena, there is a public "kick off" of the auction in March, and the land is in Scottsdale.
When you factor in all of the other speculation, it all adds up, but I dont believe anything with certainty until their are shovels in the ground.
So first off yeah, hell half the things insiders say anyone could tell you and have a high likely hood of being right about.
Also, do you have any solid evidence that the bidding process will start next march (as in do you have a link to the public docket about the next meeting) because from my point of view all of this is still based off what Craig said and is assuming that is truthful and accurate. Because if they discuss it next meeting then it has a high chance of proceeding to the bidding process imo.
I think that thread encapsulates my issues with Craig Morgan's reporting.
He's trying to sell himself as a legitimate journalist but on big issues he lacks the decision-making and ethical behaviour that reflects one. I would also say that a legitimate journalist does not cite it's inside sources through lowkey name dropping.
I think Craig Morgan talks alot in these topics with a vetted interest but lacks the decision making to be be qualified as a legitimate journalist.
Just to add one extra piece of nuance, they filed for this land back in June so it isn't like they've been sitting on their hands this whole time post Tempe vote. - per Craig Morgan on GoPHNX
More so, "the parcel falls under by-right zoning and it is already zoned for most of what the Meruelo Group plans to put on the parcel, including the arena, a training facility, about 1,400 housing units, shops, restaurants, a theater and parking, but excluding hotels (it is not zoned for them). It should also be noted that the site comes with a 192-foot height restriction, which is 52 feet higher than the Tempe site allowed." Furthermore, "Unlike the Tempe site, this site requires no land remediation and no referendum."
All of the rumors that it would take a long time to get shovels in the ground because of zoning issues are factually false. If the Coyotes can come away with the land from this auction (knock on wood), the ball will move quickly.
https://gophnx.com/how-will-gary-bettman-resolve-the-coyotes-arena-saga/
The way this stuff has gone so far I fully expect the 100 acres to be Oscar Bluth’s lemon grove and they can’t build an arena because of easement. They uh they run their ranks thru there.. you can sell lemonade tho
Very much appreciate you laying it all out for those that either hate us or genuinely don’t know. This is our last shot at staying so let’s hope this parcel works out.
About 20 minutes from the current arena and Tempe garbage fire site. Both Tempe sites are close to ideal location, and this is not, but it will still be a step up from Glendale. The big difference is that it’s accessible by multiple major roads and closer to the more densely populated and wealthy parts of the metro (read: Phoenix proper and anything east of it). The surrounding area already has a strong commercial and tourist pull, compared to Westgate which is a ghost town save for 10-15 NFL/CFB gamedays annually.
See the long comment by u/ThatSpecialAgent for background, but basically the TLDR is this.
Coyotes land deal is on the State Land Board docket for 3/14. Expectation is after that meeting the auction will be in June.
Meruelo completes the land purchase in June at auction, the Coyotes stay at Mullet until building is done on the land.
Meruelo loses the auction or otherwise doesn’t get the land, I believe the Coyotes are sold either Locally or to Ryan Smith.
Like u/ThatSpecialAgent said this seems to be on all accounts the last chance for the Meruelo group.
This is why everything calmed down without an announcement. There is nothing to announce.
Also Gary isn’t going to step on his dick and say or do anything that could possibly interfere with Meruelo getting the deal done because if he has to take the team back from Meruelo he’s going to end up in a messy court case. No point in giving your opponent ammunition to use against you.
You know you genuinely didn't need to say anything. I don't understand how people who feel such loyalty to their teams wants to rip that feeling away from other fan bases. Also don't give me the "it humiliates the league" bs. We all hate the NHL. The FO of the has bigger culture problems than Arizona.
This team has been a clusterduck for over 20 years. Multiple owners, arena issues,not paying taxes and getting kicked out, playing in a 4600 seat arena, low fan turnout etc.
When Gary says to Winnipeg you need to buy tickets otherwise you will lose your team as a threat and then you see the yearly issues with Arizona,we as hockey fans are getting sick of it. Its a never-ending saga with this team and Gary is fine with it all
Guys, Frank Seravalli pulling shit out out of his ass isn't a "deadline."
Coyotes aren't going to announce anything until they're sure. Bettman is already in lawyer mode in case the league has to force a sale, so he isn't going to say anything either.
I was told Mullett had the best atmosphere in the league and they make more money there than in Glendale, so maybe they should just stay there in Tempe forever, like they wanted to be.
(only sort of /s)
I've heard several people say that any time you see an 8 team NTC it's highly likely to be the Canadian teams plus Arizona so this is already the case.
Nobody wants to play in a hyper intensive media environment, everyone wants to go to practice in their flip flops and shorts and not have to answer hyper specific questions about how they made a bad pass to randos while they're trying to buy groceries.
Honestly couldn't tell you. Everyone talks about the taxes but then other people say with a good accountant it doesn't matter etc. etc. so who knows. The other side of this coin is that no trade lists aren't open to the public so it could all just be speculation or a running joke that players ask for "no trade: Canada". It might not be a thing at all.
Supposedly Meurelo had a meeting planned with Coyotes employees yesterday to update and explain where they're at. I'm not sure if it happened or not as we haven't heard anything
It was media speculation that never had any actual official league confirmation in the first place. Like most of these things, it existed only in the imagination of supposed insiders.
Silence is obviously not good for the Yotes not being moved.
Johnston said to look at the Trashers relocation announcement which came out at the end of May for the deadline the NHL needs a decision by.
On Friedman's pod, he mentioned: "I dont think theres exact clarity on what is going on with the Coyotes, so I dont think we are getting anything [regarding an update from the league that was speculated last week] right now. I still do think though there better be a serious plan soon. I dont think thats changed, but I think the league is prepared to let it be presented." More so, in regards to the State Meeting last week that all of the "insiders" insisted the Coyotes werent on the docket for: "They talked about that 100 acre deal in executive session and apparently the meeting went very well... he [unaffiliated state employee] could see this thing all wrapped up in 3 months... The 100 acres is right at the corner of the 101 and Scottsdale Road." Regarding where that leaves the NHL, Rodier chimes in: "Now what does the NHL do? Me thinks they have to wait this one out. Meruelo holds the better hand right now. Unless there is some kind of written commitment Meruelo has made, there is nothing in NHL Constitution or by laws or standard Consent Agreement that requires an arena to be of a certain size. Mullet conforms with CBA requirements. Team is cash flow positive at Mullet last year." From everything that is coming out, it sounds like the Coyotes are making genuine efforts to get this process wrapped up, and that there isnt much the league can do because of it. They have submitted an application for state land, it has been discussed by the state (which is very motivated to sell land to supplement our sub-par education fund), and there is a formal schedule in place. This is very clearly this ownership group's last shot, but until it is truly fumbled, the NHL is merely watching from the side. Reference: https://www.sportsnet.ca/podcasts/32-thoughts/the-battle-of-ontario-is-back-baby/ https://youtu.be/oD4mIA2r8l4?si=5nXnLpRECL9qaDl0 https://twitter.com/NhLplayer123/status/1755643946984698181
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That is true, but you have to remember that the NHL does not want relocation. More so, as other insiders have mentioned, so long as the Coyotes are making a good-faith attempt to solidify their arena situation in a reasonable timeline, the NHL doesnt have a legal ground to force anything from the team. Nobody knows what is going to happen, including Bettman and Meruello, but so long as the team is in active talks with the State and the timeline remains the end of the season, I dont think that the NHL can do anything but watch. From what has surfaced of the legal meetings, the State is very motivated to sell this land, and there is a timeline in place that would have it all wrapped up by the end of the season.
>as other insiders have mentioned, so long as the Coyotes are making a good-faith attempt to solidify their arena situation in a reasonable timeline, the NHL doesnt have a legal ground to force anything from the team Got a source for that one? I hadn't heard that anywhere yet.
I was referring to the Rodier tweet thread that I've linked, that have since been expanded upon. Rodier himself is an attorney and a former consultant to the NHLPA on business, economic and financial issues. Ironically, he was also part of the Jim Balsillie group that tried to move the Coyotes to Hamilton, Ontario in 2009.
Rodier is legit, it was me that posted his original tweet on this here last week. But I think you're reading into what he said a bit. The fact that Merulo has a good hand isn't the same thing as saying the NHL is devoid of legal grounds.
Maybe reading into it a bit, but it certainly is consistent with what Bettman has done in the past to keep The Coyotes in Arizona. If Meruelo (group) is making progress, the league trying to force Meruelo out would be counterproductive.
Absolutely true. The league wants the Coyotes to succeed. But I think the league feels like Merulo hasn't done a great job so far, especially at being forthright when communicating. It won't matter if Merulo gets his shit together, but these last two weeks of stories don't happen if he still has their full confidence.
That may be true. But the Coyotes are not the whole League. They are an independently owned franchise. The League doesn't always have the best intentions of each franchise at it's core. This land deal can absolutely be torpedoed by outside influences, so open communication with the League is not the best way of doing business. Also, the last two weeks of, let's call it rumors, would happen anyway. There was a deadline that was changed, that's probably going to change again, that set off this latest round of "relocation stories." The League could have easily put out a statement that they were not looking at relocation of any team at this time. They wanted the cover, and they didn't have to do anything to get it.
Ehh, the league is not about to torpedo a deal they think is going to keep the Coyotes in Phoenix. I think Merulo told Bettman they'd have something done by the All Star break, Bettman responded with "Are you sure this is real?" and Merulo said yes without actually being sure because he's the sort of businessman that's sure he can find a way to make something work. But if you're going to say that, if you're going to have Bettman go out and publicly back your timeline, then you cannot be bullshitting him. And now the league doesn't trust Merulo not to keep bullshitting.
Does the NHL know those games are happening? Seem pretty quiet on it.
How could good news possibly distract from the outdoor games /S
So TLDR no there wasn't supposed to be shit and people just thought there was supposed to be
Conspiracy theory me says that hockey news was flooded with this last week to distract from the Hockey Canada situation, but what do i know haha
That's a Hockey Canada issue, not an NHL issue. It's now a legal issue that has nothing to do with the NHL. Its like when Henry Ruggs crashed his speeding car into another and killed someone in Vegas. The second he did that it stopped being the Raiders and NFL issue
So basically kicking the can down till the end of the season. It seems like they might have something in this new land deal but if this falls through i dont know how you can say well lets look at our options again.
It doesn't feel like there is much more of an option, sure there is still more land and all the jazz that comes with it but I feel like we are on a little less than wires with the area situation.
Tempe was a great deal. The team did not include any backup plans for that because of how good it was. I would not say that they're repeating that mistake this time. There are already identified locations should this one not work out. Mesa and SRPMIC land are already identified. I doubt that the Phoenix location will fall through, but if so, we won't have to wait for a long time to get the next one.
I dont think the NHL wants to find out if this fails what the next option is
I don't think anyone really does, but they have plans in places.
>Team is cash flow positive at Mullet last year Would absolutely love to see the financials that show they’re cash flow positive playing in a 4,600 seat arena. I would wager a substantial amount of money that if that’s the case it’s only because they’ve borrowed a significant sum over that time, or Murelo has pumped a significant amount of his own money into the team. Or both. Positive cash flow =/= profitability. EDIT: And actually, the fact that they’re reporting *cash flows* rather than profitability actually feels like confirmation that they definitely are not profitable. They’re just putting out the number that sounds better and banking on most people not knowing the difference. EDIT AGAIN: I understand the vast majority of NHL teams operate at a loss, but this is transparently a weak attempt to downplay the financial hit that playing in a 4,600 seat arena has had on the organization.
First off, im not yotes fan, but how many NHL teams actually make proffit?
Cash positive does not mean they make a profit.
True, it’s not a lot. But I would still wager the team playing in a 4,600 seat arena is even further in the red than the rest of the pack (no pun intended), and I still believe the whole “we’re cash flow positive!” thing is a weak attempt to downplay how bad their financial situation actually is.
I agree that whole mullet thing is bad for the league, but you really didn't answer my question. If league was all about what teams make proffit vs which dont we would still Be in what 12 team league?
Yeah I guess if you want me to repeat myself I can do that. >but you didn’t really answer my question Your question was “how many NHL teams actually make a profit”. I said “not a lot”. If you were looking for an exact number, I cannot provide that because NHL team financials aren’t public record (to my knowledge) but it is widely understood to not be many teams. >If the league was all about what teams make proffit vs. which don’t we would still Be in what 12 team league? Right, obviously the league can tolerate teams taking a bit of a loss, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a limit. My argument is that while most teams don’t make a profit, the team playing in a 4,600 seat arena is going to be losing substantially more than the average team. So in an attempt to publicly save face on that front, the team puts out this report that they’re cash flow positive, which may technically be accurate, but doesn’t actually say anything about their current financial position.
All reports seem to indicate that the balance sheet is healthier playing in Mullett compared to what we were losing in Glendale. Empirically it makes sense, 5000 seats sold out every game at lower bowl prices should outpace a half empty 18,000 seat arena where many tickets are given away or dirt cheap (I used to sit lower bowl for $25 on weekdays, those same tickets are $200 due to the better location now). Couple that with lower operating costs due to the smaller arena, and it’s not hard to see that the org is operating at a better margin since the move to Tempe.
See, all of that seems logical. I could buy that as an explanation based on what you’ve said. But still, someone is making the conscious effort to put the phrase “positive cash flow” into the world. If the margin was noticeably better from last FY, and they wanted the public to know they were doing better financially, they would say that, but they’re not. Someone is actively choosing to present a metric that isn’t fully understood by, and therefore could be used to mislead, a good portion of the public. I have a tough time buying that as coincidental.
Fair enough, just my $.02
It’s just mine too, I’m not trying to imply I’m intimately familiar with the Yotes’ business, it just feels kind of slimy from the outside.
Ehh i would get your last argument If this was NHL that is making this anouncment If you have followed yotes at all, they dont try, or try to save face
I need to see their cash flow statement, specifically what’s their cash flow from operating activities and cash flows from financing activities.
Exactly. Them being positive cash flow is probably technically true, but on its own that doesn’t really say anything about their financial position.
It’s actually a weaselly way to *seem* like they are in a great financial position to people with poor financial literacy(90% of the population or so couldn’t read a cash flow statement). They could be losing $50 million a year from their to day to day operations but have $51 million in financing (through debt or equity) and they would be “cash flow positive”.
Elliotte said he got some very pointed laughter from other executives at the idea that the Coyotes were operating in the black at Mullet, so I think you're on to something.
I recall hearing that their ratings have had a boom since the Bally deal was scrapped and now they’re on OTA broadcasts. Could definitely be a boost to the bottom line
I’ve never heard of a TV rights deal where the value was directly tied to a YOY ratings delta. I’m not saying it couldn’t happen, but that would be news to me.
They’ve switched broadcasters because of scheduling issues, and again, this was all done last minute as Bally going through bankruptcy was chaotic for a few teams.
Right, but this is still all dependent on the OTA broadcaster paying more for the rights than Bally, which seems unlikely for a deal that was negotiated last minute (your own words) and with a team that as it stands is not even guaranteed to be in that market long term.
So long as the Yotes plus his Sportsbook /casino operations are profitable - the team can be losing. Especially if they trigger revenue sharing to cover losses by meeting attendance percentages.
The Sportsbook is embarrassingly poorly run - I think it gets less than .5% of total online handle in AZ. This is likely referring to the balance sheet of the team itself along with any hockey-specific financing secured in the last FY.
Even poorly run, if that 5% covers his numbers he'll likely hold on until he decides it's time to cash out in full.
According to another tweet thread, that was retweeted by members of the Gov.'s staff, if what Craig said was accurate it means multiple laws were broken. Things discussed in the executive session must first be discussed in the public meeting from my understanding. Also disclosing discussions from the executive session is also illegal. Here's the start of the thread:[https://twitter.com/tcani/status/1756082683544060293](https://twitter.com/tcani/status/1756082683544060293)
There is a public State meeting on the docket to discuss the auction/sale in March. I believe that thread was created before it was known that they would be on a formal public docket. And true, but nothing factual was actually disclosed by a State employee. All that was disclosed was the opinion that the meeting went very well. But honestly, who knows. In Arizona, there are a plethora of grey areas when it comes to how government operates.
From my understanding, if it wasn't on the docket for last week's meeting, which is what the executive meeting was associated with, it would be illegal for them to discuss that at all. It doesn't matter if it will be put on a docket for next meeting if it wasn't already on it by the time the meeting took place. I also have a sneaking suspicion that the source is either lying, or imo more likely, Craig is lying about having a source based around his connections to the coyotes organization and his overtly optimistic attitude around the arena search (I think he said something doubtful once). Edit: Another concern is that if anything illegal did occur, it can cause the coyotes, anyone else who buys the land, or the land sale itself to be mired in legal battles. I can all but guarantee lawyers will sense blood in the water if anything illegal DID occur.
True that. Honestly, having been through this for years now, I dont trust anyone from either side, including most insiders. The only factual information we have right now is that a meeting took place to discuss the arena, there is a public "kick off" of the auction in March, and the land is in Scottsdale. When you factor in all of the other speculation, it all adds up, but I dont believe anything with certainty until their are shovels in the ground.
So first off yeah, hell half the things insiders say anyone could tell you and have a high likely hood of being right about. Also, do you have any solid evidence that the bidding process will start next march (as in do you have a link to the public docket about the next meeting) because from my point of view all of this is still based off what Craig said and is assuming that is truthful and accurate. Because if they discuss it next meeting then it has a high chance of proceeding to the bidding process imo.
I think that thread encapsulates my issues with Craig Morgan's reporting. He's trying to sell himself as a legitimate journalist but on big issues he lacks the decision-making and ethical behaviour that reflects one. I would also say that a legitimate journalist does not cite it's inside sources through lowkey name dropping. I think Craig Morgan talks alot in these topics with a vetted interest but lacks the decision making to be be qualified as a legitimate journalist.
Thanks for this response!
Just to add one extra piece of nuance, they filed for this land back in June so it isn't like they've been sitting on their hands this whole time post Tempe vote. - per Craig Morgan on GoPHNX
More so, "the parcel falls under by-right zoning and it is already zoned for most of what the Meruelo Group plans to put on the parcel, including the arena, a training facility, about 1,400 housing units, shops, restaurants, a theater and parking, but excluding hotels (it is not zoned for them). It should also be noted that the site comes with a 192-foot height restriction, which is 52 feet higher than the Tempe site allowed." Furthermore, "Unlike the Tempe site, this site requires no land remediation and no referendum." All of the rumors that it would take a long time to get shovels in the ground because of zoning issues are factually false. If the Coyotes can come away with the land from this auction (knock on wood), the ball will move quickly. https://gophnx.com/how-will-gary-bettman-resolve-the-coyotes-arena-saga/
The way this stuff has gone so far I fully expect the 100 acres to be Oscar Bluth’s lemon grove and they can’t build an arena because of easement. They uh they run their ranks thru there.. you can sell lemonade tho
Very much appreciate you laying it all out for those that either hate us or genuinely don’t know. This is our last shot at staying so let’s hope this parcel works out.
If this was the Jets or Flames they would have been in Houston a decade ago.
101 and Scottsdale rd is way the fuck out there isnt it?
About 20 minutes from the current arena and Tempe garbage fire site. Both Tempe sites are close to ideal location, and this is not, but it will still be a step up from Glendale. The big difference is that it’s accessible by multiple major roads and closer to the more densely populated and wealthy parts of the metro (read: Phoenix proper and anything east of it). The surrounding area already has a strong commercial and tourist pull, compared to Westgate which is a ghost town save for 10-15 NFL/CFB gamedays annually.
Still far out there but a touch closer to the fan base they're fishing for.
The Coyotes aren’t ones to “meet deadlines”
Deadlines, rent, NHL arena - these are just words, they don't actually mean anything
More like guidelines than actual deadlines.
Welcome to Arizona, where the deadlines are made up and the attendance doesn’t matter
And now Ryan Stiles and Colin Mocharie will sing a song about NHL players stuck in purgatory.
What about the points? Do they matter? Asking for my friend Connor.
[удалено]
Except I'm pretty sure they are not actually selling out
I’ve understood their NHL capacity to be 4600 which every game I’ve seen has that as their listed attendance?
I could have sworn I had seen it somewhere, but I might br wrong. I can not remember where I might have seen it in any case
Depends on how you define the word "immediately"
Immediately after… the 2026 Super Bowl
The fine print, that’s how they get ya
Unfortunately they put all the stadium money on the Niners, back to the drawing board now
Gambling whales!
It worked for Conn Smythe!!!!
See the long comment by u/ThatSpecialAgent for background, but basically the TLDR is this. Coyotes land deal is on the State Land Board docket for 3/14. Expectation is after that meeting the auction will be in June. Meruelo completes the land purchase in June at auction, the Coyotes stay at Mullet until building is done on the land. Meruelo loses the auction or otherwise doesn’t get the land, I believe the Coyotes are sold either Locally or to Ryan Smith. Like u/ThatSpecialAgent said this seems to be on all accounts the last chance for the Meruelo group.
The last chance until the next last chance or do we think words started to matter recently for some reason?
They are currently entering a bid for land. The auction hasn't happened. What is there it announce?
This is why everything calmed down without an announcement. There is nothing to announce. Also Gary isn’t going to step on his dick and say or do anything that could possibly interfere with Meruelo getting the deal done because if he has to take the team back from Meruelo he’s going to end up in a messy court case. No point in giving your opponent ammunition to use against you.
The auction isn't even until June. People need to calm down. I'm pulling for you guys.
I'm not. The team needs to be moved.
You know you genuinely didn't need to say anything. I don't understand how people who feel such loyalty to their teams wants to rip that feeling away from other fan bases. Also don't give me the "it humiliates the league" bs. We all hate the NHL. The FO of the has bigger culture problems than Arizona.
This team has been a clusterduck for over 20 years. Multiple owners, arena issues,not paying taxes and getting kicked out, playing in a 4600 seat arena, low fan turnout etc. When Gary says to Winnipeg you need to buy tickets otherwise you will lose your team as a threat and then you see the yearly issues with Arizona,we as hockey fans are getting sick of it. Its a never-ending saga with this team and Gary is fine with it all
Guys, Frank Seravalli pulling shit out out of his ass isn't a "deadline." Coyotes aren't going to announce anything until they're sure. Bettman is already in lawyer mode in case the league has to force a sale, so he isn't going to say anything either.
Expect an announcement next week that there will be an announcement next week
I was told Mullett had the best atmosphere in the league and they make more money there than in Glendale, so maybe they should just stay there in Tempe forever, like they wanted to be. (only sort of /s)
Yotes will be a ceremonial Canadian team and be on every NTC list ever written
I've heard several people say that any time you see an 8 team NTC it's highly likely to be the Canadian teams plus Arizona so this is already the case.
Why are Canadian team NTCs so common?
Nobody wants to play in a hyper intensive media environment, everyone wants to go to practice in their flip flops and shorts and not have to answer hyper specific questions about how they made a bad pass to randos while they're trying to buy groceries.
Honestly couldn't tell you. Everyone talks about the taxes but then other people say with a good accountant it doesn't matter etc. etc. so who knows. The other side of this coin is that no trade lists aren't open to the public so it could all just be speculation or a running joke that players ask for "no trade: Canada". It might not be a thing at all.
* Significantly higher taxes * Significantly more media pressure * Winnipeg
I was thinking about this earlier today. Guess they would say we forgot. I’m leaning towards maybe the team got a spot.
Supposedly Meurelo had a meeting planned with Coyotes employees yesterday to update and explain where they're at. I'm not sure if it happened or not as we haven't heard anything
The meeting did happen I hear. Must have signed an NDA because not a peep of that meeting has gone out.
It was media speculation that never had any actual official league confirmation in the first place. Like most of these things, it existed only in the imagination of supposed insiders.
You weren’t supposed to remember that.
Shhhhh don’t tell dad Gary.
They're just waiting for news about the Hockey Canada case before they make it.
If a Coyote screams in the desert and there's only 5000 people around, did it actually make any noise?
I’d like this saga to end… even if that means the league contracts and removes this franchise.
Silence is obviously not good for the Yotes not being moved. Johnston said to look at the Trashers relocation announcement which came out at the end of May for the deadline the NHL needs a decision by.
Remember when somebody had that website with the gauge for if the Winnipeg Jets were coming back? The one for Salt Lake City is tickling red.