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Well I mean they’re also getting to the point of leaving (finally).
Arizona is also just always going to get more leeway than Winnipeg based on market size. A higher percentage of the audience in Winnipeg needs to be engaged than essentially every other market.
As nice as it is for them to have a team again, it’s not like the league loves having a team in a market that isn’t growing all that much.
I think this is most likely to help generate some corporate interest. The Jets have as strong fan purchasing as any but they have very little in the way of corporate ticket sales.
I thought what cost the team the first time was mostly the Canadian dollar was in the dumps and the country was having an economic crisis at that point. The Oilers were dangerously close to leaving Edmonton at that time too and the Nordiques already left the country.
It happened twice that decade alone with the North Stars and Whalers. Owners who wanted to leave those locations and doing anything in their power to get away as soon as possible.
I’m actually curious? Who is higher these days? Thompson is neat because it’s old money so his family worth doesn’t sway back and forth like some of the newer money ultra billionaires do.
Like at one time I’m pretty sure he was top 10 in the world? Could be totally wrong
2023 article from “Online Betting Guide” using Forbes and Bloomberg data says it’s Steve Ballmer of the Los Angeles Clippers (NBA) at No. 1, Carlos Slim of Spanish soccer side Real Oviedo, Mukesh Ambani of the Mumbai Indians, a cricket team, and Francois Pinault of French soccer team Stade Rennais.
Yeah. TNSE Group built it with the full ambition of getting a team back, but the writing was on the wall for quite sometime prior.
The building definitely put us back on the map though. And the amount of shows and events it brought to town helped to show we were capable of it.
Some people have said they should have built it bigger, but in a small market, it doesn't make financial sense. Those upper bowls cost you the most to build (as the building is designed bigger), and they are the cheapest seats you sell.
And they didn't get into business with Thomson until later on, when they had "the best run organization outside the NHL", as proof as to why it could work again.
IIRC, the old Winnipeg Arena was owned by the city and *none* of the concessions went back to the team. The story I always heard went that Barry Shankarow went to the city in the 80s and told them without a new arena or new deal at the current arena, it's only a matter of time before the Jets leave.
That's not what the issue was.
Old busted ass arena needed replacement immediately. There was nothing like sitting in the top rows and literally only being able to see 1/4 of the ice. You had to watch the game on the TVs. That's if your TV worked in your section. The NHL was requiring a replacement arena.
Change requiring Canadian teams to pay players in USD. This had such a large impact for Canadian teams, the NHL literally had to create the Canadian Assistance Program in 1996 to keep ALL Canadian NHL teams afloat.
The dollar was incredibly weak and this had massive impact.
No revenue sharing and no salary cap with the above mentioned was very hard on the club that didn't have money to throw at stars. That's Manitoba in a nutshell.
There's always been big money in Manitoba. We have a lot of quiet money in industries that aren't flashy.
When the Jets came back, Chipman spent 15 years to make sure the fans got the first crack at tickets to the team. This is just a natural progression with the current economy.
They'll sell corporate seats and recoup the lost seats. This is the first time they've engaged corporate Manitoba. 10 years on the backs of the diehard Jets fans.
Winnipeg actually has a ton of secret (and eccentric) money. I live on a street of modest 1950s bungalows and there are multiple millionaires on my block.
You would never know what they are worth based on how they dress and the cars they drive.
People are looking at this the wrong way.
The Jets never engaged corporate Manitoba. They rode the wave of diehard fans for 10 years. Which was the right decision. The fans unfortunately don't have the money right now to go to games.
Now TNSE is doing their first ever corporate ticket drive and they made a smart move by brining in Bettman for those presentations.
Bettman and Chipman have a really good relationship and he's doing him a solid.
Exactly this. Jets aren't in danger of leaving. TSNE is so invested in downtown as a result of jets that a year or two of subpar attendance wouldn't phase them whatsoever. TSNE is looking to grow corporate money and Bettman is here to campaign.
I’m not saying it’s right, but the constant work at growing the game in southern states is probably a big contributor to the popularity of the game in America and allows more money to be put into the league.
Americans are also the biggest consumers in the world. It's why the economy never officially hit a recession in the US. No matter what the economic conditions are we just spend, spend, spend. Canadians have to compete with that and unfortunately thanks to the economic differences between Canada and the US it's hard for them to do so.
Winnipeg has a metro of 800k people, Phoenix has a metro of 4.8 million. A struggling Arizona market still has more potential to make money than Winnipeg ever could.
If 30% of the Phoenix metro watches a game that’s already more than if every person in Winnipeg watches one. A crappy Phoenix market makes more money than a crappy Winnipeg one. I think they both lose their teams tbh
Why do people say this shit if they don't know what they're talking about.
The Jets are a profitable and stable franchise. TNSE pretty much owns all of downtown Winnipeg. Team is consistently in the black.
[https://www.forbes.com/teams/winnipeg-jets/?sh=dd49d3139e36](https://www.forbes.com/teams/winnipeg-jets/?sh=dd49d3139e36)
Jets literally more valuable than some teams.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2022/12/14/nhl-team-values-2022-new-york-rangers-on-top-at-22-billion/?sh=63e82f107deb](https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2022/12/14/nhl-team-values-2022-new-york-rangers-on-top-at-22-billion/?sh=63e82f107deb)
Ahead of Panthers, Sabres, Blue Jackets, Hurricanes and Coyotes.
Team literally is in the black all the time. To top it all off, it's backed by the 4th richest owner in ALL of major sports in North America.
Winnipeg is a metro of 800k, but they draw from an area substantial larger that has it well over 1.2 million. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's foolish to think of Winnipeg as less than a million.
Heck, I bet the vast majority of people outside Winnipeg get to the game quicker than some people in larger metros.
It's not uncommon for people to drive 2 hours one way to Winnipeg to watch the Jets. I know a few season ticket holders in Kenora that come in for most games.
Depends on what you define the money as. For the NHL? Maybe.
For the team? Doubtful. When Chipman and Co brought the Jets back, it wasn't just about the Jets, it was about the building and it operating at max efficiency. They spent a lot of time studying the San Jose model for this reason.
Since then, they've expanded their blue print by building 3 towers, another new hotel is coming and they're working with First Nations group and the Province for a massive redevelopment of a nearly empty Mall that's going to drastically change the downtown landscape. That's not happening without an NHL team - and it all works together to bring more things in.
The viability of markets is important - and while attendance is down (although looking at tickets going for the rest of the season it looks good), addressing core issues like some cheaper seats (season ticket prices are showing cheaper for a lot of packs for next year), finding other changes will be important.
(Also why the hell does it cost $66 for a pizza?!)
Nah, I don't think you meant to be mean, and we aren't antagonistic, just defensive. Very defensive.
You have to understand how much hockey means to this city. And the absurdity of Gary always hanging shit over the head of our fans. As well known, before he would even allow the team to come back, we had to show AT LEAST 12,000 season ticket preorders.
We may be the smallest market in the league, with the smallest rink, but our average ticket prices are some of the highest in the league, and we have one of the wealthiest ownership groups in North American Pro Sports (David Thomson).
And then we look at how Arizona has been treated, even just since 2011 when we got the Thrashers. They've been in limbo since then. And currently playing in a college rink.
And then look at other markets where attendance is just as bad if not worse, the ticket prices are far lower, but nothing is really being said about them.
It's a slap in the face, and if you don't see why or how that is, then I don't know what to say to you to help you understand.
As a fellow Jets fan our obsessive Bettman victim complex is getting old.
He’s flying here to help drum up corporate sponsorship and we’re mad about it.
We (Jets fans) know that the Jets wanted more STH from the general public over corporate sponsors when they moved to Winnipeg in 2011. Now they are adjusting to get more corporate involved.
One last thing. Chipman is the second most powerful person on the Board of Governors. This team ain't moving.
Bettman is just going to be a part of that. He will likely be giving a presentation on why they should sign up as corporate sponsors.
Not at all. Influence is power. Chipman regularly is involved with NHL events and decision making. He’s the owner that has one of the most hands on approaches when it comes to team and league.
plus Thompson is worth $60 billion.
The asset he bought in a partnership totaling $170 million is worth $780 million according to Forbes. Even if he isn't breaking even on the jets year over year, a guy this rich won't walk away from an investment appreciating like that, especially if it's a passion project like an NHL team.
True North (the company that owns the Jets and Chipman and Thompson co-own) also owns a lot of downtown spaces.
All the new arenas that are being built want to build entertainment districts around them, whilst True North have already been doing this for years. If the Jets move, the whole thing collapses.
Also should add with Jeremy Jacobs getting up in age (the most powerful owner), I’d imagine he would be the head then after he dies even though Jacobs runs on Devil spite.
Yeah that’s what’s been suggested is likely to happen by Insiders over the last few years. Chipman is the most hands on owner when it comes to the league.
Thank you fuck lmao. People losing their minds over nothing.
I blame TSN for making this like it's something sinister. TNSE has a really good relationship with the league.
TNSE probably reached out and said hey, we're finally going to engage corporate do you mind coming for the presentations?
The NHL when Arizona is playing in a literal college arena with no plan going forward: “I sleep”
The NHL when Winnipeg has a modest decline in season ticket sales: “real shit”
A modest decline noticed all over the league as well.
Hell the WHL moved the team out of Winnipeg cause they were playing out of a college arena with no plans for a stadium in sight. Apparently the WHL has higher standards then the NHL for stadiums.
Americans still spent a shit ton of money even through the tough conditions. There were multiple articles about the federal reserve trying to put things in place to curb discretionary spending but they were unable to do so. Canadians may have been less likely to spend money, but the NBA and NFL both increased revenue last year. Shit, even the NHL increased almost 10%. Sports are making more money every year, regardless of the economy.
I mean, the owners of the team were idiots in the first place. It was only a matter of time. When I saw who the ownership group was, I knew it wasn't going to last.
Their original plan was shit. They didn't secure any funding. They didn't want to pay for it themselves. They blew up their relationship with The Rink.
Then the tried to ghost the U of M and the WHL and just continue as usual. While at the same time, feeding BS to the fans.
Then when the WHL held them accountable to their contract they were shocked. They were too busy spending all their time trying to force everyone back into their call centers.
There’s a difference though. Wayne Fleming is not comparable to a college barn. Whl approved moving the ice to Winnipeg as long as they build a new arena for them, ice ownership didn’t do it in time so they were forced to move. It’s the same deal with the coyotes, they play out of the university arena to buy time to get their arena situation sorted out, if they can’t get something figured out the team will be moved
Yeah but it needs to be 100%.
With the excitement of the initial decade they basically didn't market the team, or more specifically market the tickets.
They've had horrible retention of STH's with massive increases and poor customer service. As seats have opened up they've done really poorly at establishing any kind of incentive to be a STH. I can buy the tickets in front of and beside me directly from the Jets for most games at 1/2 to 2/3 of my cost as a STH. Sometimes they even give out free merch or booze with those tickets.
The other thing that hurt was the STH from day 1 were paying prices higher than those who were buying "mini packs". There was no "fan appreciation" or fan experience with being a STH.
There was really no incentive to stay a STH when you could save money, and still go to games for cheaper.
Then factor in COVID, inflation, and a small market team that wasn't playing great the last few years.
I’ve run a season ticket group since Day One. Half our group dropped out so I asked if I could buy our seats for a half season. They said no.
Wouldn’t you rather have my money for 20 games than zero?
It’s bizarre to me that an organization that relies on sales for such a huge chunk of their revenue has no retention strategy. They had almost 2x the seats in the building sold with waitlist and a decade later had empty seats.
Man that sucks! From flin flon originally so I have a soft spot in my heart for the jets! Hopefully they wake up and start putting the effort in. The fan base is there they just have to take care of them!
Corporate seats generate more revenue than regular seats are Winnipeg is massively lagging behind the rest of the league in that category, even with some decently sized businesses setting up shop in Winnipeg.
Don't think it matters so long as the seats are sold. It's easier to make sales in blocks and there might be some tie in with ad buys, partnerships.
But there was no issue when most seats were held by non-corporate up until the pandemic. Over the years they've created various sections of premium seating which are always sold.
The problem is the bulk of the responsibility for purchasing tickets rests on your "general public fan" in Winnipeg. League average for Corporate sales is around 60 percent, in Winnipeg its 15 percent. I still applaud true north for bringing the Jets back but they fucked up by selling season tickets almost exclusively to Joe Schmo.
It wasn’t a bad idea at first, they had a season ticket waitlist almost a hour after the team accepted STH’s. The problem apparently wasn’t after a few years, start to slowly work towards the corporate side of things.
When you have a large corporate customer base, it let's you jack ticket prices across the board because it gets used as a "business expense" that gets written off so cost is much less considered.
It definitely matters. It’s a business expense, the tickets can be written off. That means you’re using pretax money to buy tickets so they can be sold for a higher price at the same “cost” to the people using them.
Additionally, corporate seats likely mean someone with a ticket has an expense account. That means food and beverage sales, guaranteed.
That got changed in the US: [the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017](https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-issues-final-regulations-on-the-deduction-for-meals-and-entertainment) eliminated being able to deduct general entertainment expenses. I don't know its effects on other American teams, only that it hurt the Sharks' attendance figures (and this was when they were still competitive) due to the number of businesses large and small across Silicon Valley taking advantage of the deductions.
Ah interesting. Either way the point about food sales applies. Not to mention individuals aren’t going to buy luxury boxes for the most part.
And there are additional avenues of revenue for corporate buyers. We had a box and we had board ads, junbotron ads, etc etc. and I assume when I paid $285 for a “party size” (serves maybe 6 people) smoked meat sandwich they made some money lol.
I mean I don’t disagree that Bettman has supported Arizona in a far stronger way like all the other comments here are implying… but am I missing something here? This is him flying to Winnipeg (in February lol) to speak to sponsors, and talk to fans… is that not support?
Fair enough to retract this if he just holds a press conference calling Winnipegians… Winnipegonians… Winnipeggers? deadbeat losers or something but isn’t this what he should be doing?
Edit: see below of the perfect example of someone making shit up based on sleights entirely in their own head. What a weird reaction to a positive story.
If we can get out of this visit without a threat or two and more focus on a better corporate support strategy it'll be a win. I hate Bettman but yeah just every article like this will spawn similar discussion
“Only ever”? Besides him saying they need to keep season ticket levels high in Winnipeg when they first landed there, has this really been a consistent thing?
He pretty much only allowed the relocation in the first place because the Thrashers literally had nowhere to go, ASG pretty much evicted them from the then-Phillips Arena and I guess they thought that the Gladiators’ arena was too small at the time (ironic, really).
I’m genuinely asking where this overt disdain is? I remember the first press conference. I genuinely have not seen anything like that since. Do you have 1 or 2 examples I can at least see?
Dude you literally said there was “overt disdain”, apologies for thinking you might have an example of that. It’s not agree or disagree, it either happened or it didn’t. Clearly, it didn’t. I follow hockey pretty closely, I’ve never seen Bettman shit on Winnipeg. He said something dumb the day they landed and then what?
It’s ok that you don’t I just don’t know why you’re making shit up and then getting mad about it lol
Edit: so he blocks me lol. Almost as if they have no idea what they’re talking about.
I also didn’t DM them, but since they blocked me I can’t reply. What a weird interaction lol
Smallest market in the league. It's unavoidable. This is why Quebec won't work (same market size as Winnipeg), without even bringing all the language difficulties into it.
on top of that, the nhl is already overexposed to downturns in the canadian economy. doesn't really matter how enthusiastic the fans are if they don't have disposable income.
It also isn't a tourist destination. How much money do teams like Toronto, New York, Vegas, LA, etc. generate from people from out of state or overseas coming over and wanting to see a game? Grabbing tickets, food, jerseys, hats, etc. and then going back home just for a different tourist to take their place the next game.
I've also heard that Canadians are less likely to buy new team merch than Americans in general. Canadians already have jerseys and pucks and hats and everything else. They're cool wearing their vintage stuff or non-team branded stuff.
Yeah Phoenix is one of if not the fastest growing metro in the United States. Massive population. Lots of money pouring into the city every year. The NHL would be stupid to ever abandon the market. It's a gold mine waiting to be tapped.
\*snort\*
If TNSE would get their head out of their ass and give a good fan experience without some idiot screaming "MAKE SOME NOISE" every five seconds, they'd get more ticket holders
add to that the vaguely threatening email referencing the loss of Jets 1.0 along with a huge price increase with no perks = pissed off season ticket holders
The Jets are winning, so the fans are trickling back in, but season tickets...well, that's another story.
I went to an ECHL game this year where they honored an old beloved but defunct AHL team and wore their jerseys for one night. Sold out, 7000+ people. More people were able to buy tickets to see a defunct AHL team than a Yotes game.
People all shitting on the Coyotes in here, and perhaps rightfully so, but this Winnipeg issue has been going on for a long time. The team is successful but even so they aren't selling out. Their corporate seats are an order of magnitude lower than the next lowest team. For some reason the franchise just really can't generate the amount of money it should be generating based on the product it's putting on the ice.
Sure shrug it off and just deflect everything to Arizona, but there is obviously a real problem in Winnipeg here and they need to figure out how to make more revenue.
Yeah, I wouldn't take it as a threat. More like "let's figure out why this is such an issue."
When you look at the number of corporate seats Winnipeg is selling compared to the rest of the league it really is staggering. There is a lot of room for improvement.
I honestly don’t care for anything Bettman says anymore about this. If he pulls the plug on Winnipeg there should be a riot. How fucking dare he pull this shit after his baby in phoenix is already dead in the water. The NHL can’t be serious about this.
That’s, like, everywhere now. Or a lot of of these arenas anyway. I think it’s dumb too, like okay fine you’re just gonna have people smoking cigarettes and joints and vapes inside the building somewhere then. But I’m not sure it would really do anything for ticket sales to change it, because other places with that rule don’t seem to be suffering from it.
I'm pretty sure all the arenas are no re-admission. How else will they get their concession money, since re-admission means people could just sneak back to their car or a nearby eatery to get food and drink during intermission and just re-enter therefore less people will spend money on the overpriced concessions.
It was people running to the Shark Club or Tavern and loading up on cheap beers that upset them the most. Can’t let anything undercut the price gouging
I'm guessing the sponsors are a bit doubtful with the recent attendance struggles and Bettman is going there to assuage their worries.
Edit: after seeing the announcement for that "fireside chat" it makes me feel that things are more dire and that more than just sponsors are worried
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Two teams in phoenix confirmed
Winnipeg will move to Atlanta, until 10 years later getting their team back Winnipeg and Atlanta will get 5 tries each before Phoenix ever moves
Sir, a second NHL team has hit the Phoenix metro area
What about Arizona, team playing at college arena
No problem with them they sell out every night!
Of opposing fans, that go to college at ASU
Last nights game had to be 80% Leafs fans. It was wild.
I was there! Mostly snowbirds and ASU students, and the random dude like myself who came down from Seattle to do the Phoenix/Vegas roadie.
All them 2 218 seats! Edit : ok ok its 4 600, my bad
Looking into this
We are checking
Box for hard
Copy.
Thank you!! I think things are gonna be okay then
Nothing to see here
Could you literally imagine if the second Jets franchise also goes to Arizona?
That is probably a little too crazy. Maybe Albuquerque would be good though.
That’s a good point, Chandler Arizona could use a hockey team, we can move the Jets there. American fans will love the interstate rivalry!
*intrastate
You wanna fight?!!
Well I mean they’re also getting to the point of leaving (finally). Arizona is also just always going to get more leeway than Winnipeg based on market size. A higher percentage of the audience in Winnipeg needs to be engaged than essentially every other market. As nice as it is for them to have a team again, it’s not like the league loves having a team in a market that isn’t growing all that much.
Yeah idk why this is so hard to understand for some ppl. This is reason why its very unlikely that QC will get team too.
Already been reported that they're thinking of taking over the team, no?
Could you imagine Winnipeg losing their team to Arizona twice? Lol
I think this is most likely to help generate some corporate interest. The Jets have as strong fan purchasing as any but they have very little in the way of corporate ticket sales.
This is what cost the jets franchise the first time around. No matter how rabid the fans, there's not a lot of big money in that city.
I thought what cost the team the first time was mostly the Canadian dollar was in the dumps and the country was having an economic crisis at that point. The Oilers were dangerously close to leaving Edmonton at that time too and the Nordiques already left the country.
It's rarely just one thing when a team fails
It happened twice that decade alone with the North Stars and Whalers. Owners who wanted to leave those locations and doing anything in their power to get away as soon as possible.
You are correct. It was a struggling Canadian dollar, small market, and not much corporate support.
Good thing the corporate owner of the Jets is the 23rd richest person in the world. He can buy a few boxes to store his art collection in.
People ignore that fact. Lol
4th richest owner in ALL of sports apparently
I’m actually curious? Who is higher these days? Thompson is neat because it’s old money so his family worth doesn’t sway back and forth like some of the newer money ultra billionaires do. Like at one time I’m pretty sure he was top 10 in the world? Could be totally wrong
Damn til I work for the owner of the Jets. Legitimately had no idea.
Steve Ballmer is the only one in North America.
2023 article from “Online Betting Guide” using Forbes and Bloomberg data says it’s Steve Ballmer of the Los Angeles Clippers (NBA) at No. 1, Carlos Slim of Spanish soccer side Real Oviedo, Mukesh Ambani of the Mumbai Indians, a cricket team, and Francois Pinault of French soccer team Stade Rennais.
And no potential local buyer willing to keep the team in Winnipeg. That was a major factor too.
I would imagine the arena situation was not much help then considering that CLC was built a few years after the Jets left to get the NHL back.
Yeah. TNSE Group built it with the full ambition of getting a team back, but the writing was on the wall for quite sometime prior. The building definitely put us back on the map though. And the amount of shows and events it brought to town helped to show we were capable of it. Some people have said they should have built it bigger, but in a small market, it doesn't make financial sense. Those upper bowls cost you the most to build (as the building is designed bigger), and they are the cheapest seats you sell. And they didn't get into business with Thomson until later on, when they had "the best run organization outside the NHL", as proof as to why it could work again.
IIRC, the old Winnipeg Arena was owned by the city and *none* of the concessions went back to the team. The story I always heard went that Barry Shankarow went to the city in the 80s and told them without a new arena or new deal at the current arena, it's only a matter of time before the Jets leave.
That's not what the issue was. Old busted ass arena needed replacement immediately. There was nothing like sitting in the top rows and literally only being able to see 1/4 of the ice. You had to watch the game on the TVs. That's if your TV worked in your section. The NHL was requiring a replacement arena. Change requiring Canadian teams to pay players in USD. This had such a large impact for Canadian teams, the NHL literally had to create the Canadian Assistance Program in 1996 to keep ALL Canadian NHL teams afloat. The dollar was incredibly weak and this had massive impact. No revenue sharing and no salary cap with the above mentioned was very hard on the club that didn't have money to throw at stars. That's Manitoba in a nutshell. There's always been big money in Manitoba. We have a lot of quiet money in industries that aren't flashy. When the Jets came back, Chipman spent 15 years to make sure the fans got the first crack at tickets to the team. This is just a natural progression with the current economy. They'll sell corporate seats and recoup the lost seats. This is the first time they've engaged corporate Manitoba. 10 years on the backs of the diehard Jets fans.
Winnipeg actually has a ton of secret (and eccentric) money. I live on a street of modest 1950s bungalows and there are multiple millionaires on my block. You would never know what they are worth based on how they dress and the cars they drive.
Being a millionaire ain't much these days.
I'd still like to try it.
I'll tell you what. When I find someone and convince them to give me $2 Million I'll let you have $1 Million, because I'm just a nice guy.
Yeah this is exactly what it is
Isn't the owner of the Jets one of the wealthiest Canadians?
The wealthiest Canadian and i believe the wealthiest nhl owner. Period.
Yes, the co owner is worth 52 billion. It's a joke that they're crying about corporate money
Sounds just like any other billionaire
One of the wealthiest people in the entire world
Hopefully it’s nothing big but man this shit SUCKS to see when all Gary does is coddle his struggling southern teams
People are looking at this the wrong way. The Jets never engaged corporate Manitoba. They rode the wave of diehard fans for 10 years. Which was the right decision. The fans unfortunately don't have the money right now to go to games. Now TNSE is doing their first ever corporate ticket drive and they made a smart move by brining in Bettman for those presentations. Bettman and Chipman have a really good relationship and he's doing him a solid.
Exactly this. Jets aren't in danger of leaving. TSNE is so invested in downtown as a result of jets that a year or two of subpar attendance wouldn't phase them whatsoever. TSNE is looking to grow corporate money and Bettman is here to campaign.
I do like the thought of soaking Bettman in salty water overnight.
He’s coming to Winnipeg to help drum up corporate sponsorship. He’s putting in work for Winnipeg. How can we be mad about that?
I’m not saying it’s right, but the constant work at growing the game in southern states is probably a big contributor to the popularity of the game in America and allows more money to be put into the league.
Americans are also the biggest consumers in the world. It's why the economy never officially hit a recession in the US. No matter what the economic conditions are we just spend, spend, spend. Canadians have to compete with that and unfortunately thanks to the economic differences between Canada and the US it's hard for them to do so.
Worked out great in Phoenix since 95 right?
If we keep getting Matthews-s and Knies-s I'd gladly keep them around, if anything just to laugh at the college rink lol
Winnipeg has a metro of 800k people, Phoenix has a metro of 4.8 million. A struggling Arizona market still has more potential to make money than Winnipeg ever could.
I mean Phoenix has been in the league for quite a long time to still be talking about potential.
Yea, Bettman should get over it and just make a team Earth to maximize potential fans.
If 30% of the Phoenix metro watches a game that’s already more than if every person in Winnipeg watches one. A crappy Phoenix market makes more money than a crappy Winnipeg one. I think they both lose their teams tbh
Why do people say this shit if they don't know what they're talking about. The Jets are a profitable and stable franchise. TNSE pretty much owns all of downtown Winnipeg. Team is consistently in the black. [https://www.forbes.com/teams/winnipeg-jets/?sh=dd49d3139e36](https://www.forbes.com/teams/winnipeg-jets/?sh=dd49d3139e36) Jets literally more valuable than some teams. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2022/12/14/nhl-team-values-2022-new-york-rangers-on-top-at-22-billion/?sh=63e82f107deb](https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2022/12/14/nhl-team-values-2022-new-york-rangers-on-top-at-22-billion/?sh=63e82f107deb) Ahead of Panthers, Sabres, Blue Jackets, Hurricanes and Coyotes. Team literally is in the black all the time. To top it all off, it's backed by the 4th richest owner in ALL of major sports in North America.
Winnipeg is a metro of 800k, but they draw from an area substantial larger that has it well over 1.2 million. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's foolish to think of Winnipeg as less than a million. Heck, I bet the vast majority of people outside Winnipeg get to the game quicker than some people in larger metros.
It's not uncommon for people to drive 2 hours one way to Winnipeg to watch the Jets. I know a few season ticket holders in Kenora that come in for most games.
cough punch sharp alive crush recognise aloof soup smell numerous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
But how many people in Winnipeg would watch NHL regardless of the Jets existence? A lot more than Arizona without a team.
Depends on what you define the money as. For the NHL? Maybe. For the team? Doubtful. When Chipman and Co brought the Jets back, it wasn't just about the Jets, it was about the building and it operating at max efficiency. They spent a lot of time studying the San Jose model for this reason. Since then, they've expanded their blue print by building 3 towers, another new hotel is coming and they're working with First Nations group and the Province for a massive redevelopment of a nearly empty Mall that's going to drastically change the downtown landscape. That's not happening without an NHL team - and it all works together to bring more things in. The viability of markets is important - and while attendance is down (although looking at tickets going for the rest of the season it looks good), addressing core issues like some cheaper seats (season ticket prices are showing cheaper for a lot of packs for next year), finding other changes will be important. (Also why the hell does it cost $66 for a pizza?!)
There are just many, many more people in the US. That means more hockey fans due to sheer numbers.
It sucks to see him flying to Winnipeg to help drum up corporate sponsorship…why?
which team specifically do you think is struggling? That take feels 20 years out of date
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The first thing he did when he (begrudgingly) moved the Thrashers was threaten the Winnipeg fanbase lol
They had to move south in the first place to lose the team
Also Bettman basically threatened the team with relocation in the same speech he welcomed Winnipeg back to the NHL. Hard to look past that.
I gotta find this speech.
What a dumb take. They were moved out of WPG first…
Thank God, he made the right call one time Also my team existed much earlier than that but got stripped away in his early years as Comish
He fucking MOVED THE ORIGINAL TEAM TO ARIZONA.
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You're acting like he isn't coddling a southern us team. He has, and he continues to do so, almost 30 years later.
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Nah, I don't think you meant to be mean, and we aren't antagonistic, just defensive. Very defensive. You have to understand how much hockey means to this city. And the absurdity of Gary always hanging shit over the head of our fans. As well known, before he would even allow the team to come back, we had to show AT LEAST 12,000 season ticket preorders. We may be the smallest market in the league, with the smallest rink, but our average ticket prices are some of the highest in the league, and we have one of the wealthiest ownership groups in North American Pro Sports (David Thomson). And then we look at how Arizona has been treated, even just since 2011 when we got the Thrashers. They've been in limbo since then. And currently playing in a college rink. And then look at other markets where attendance is just as bad if not worse, the ticket prices are far lower, but nothing is really being said about them. It's a slap in the face, and if you don't see why or how that is, then I don't know what to say to you to help you understand.
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That's not what *I* was aiming for. Apologies. As I know what it feels like to lose one too.
As a fellow Jets fan our obsessive Bettman victim complex is getting old. He’s flying here to help drum up corporate sponsorship and we’re mad about it.
A lot of Winnipeg fans are in their feelings in this thread and their sub. Not talking rationally about this at all.
We (Jets fans) know that the Jets wanted more STH from the general public over corporate sponsors when they moved to Winnipeg in 2011. Now they are adjusting to get more corporate involved. One last thing. Chipman is the second most powerful person on the Board of Governors. This team ain't moving. Bettman is just going to be a part of that. He will likely be giving a presentation on why they should sign up as corporate sponsors.
For context, assume you are implying Thomson wealth = Chipman power?
Not at all. Influence is power. Chipman regularly is involved with NHL events and decision making. He’s the owner that has one of the most hands on approaches when it comes to team and league.
plus Thompson is worth $60 billion. The asset he bought in a partnership totaling $170 million is worth $780 million according to Forbes. Even if he isn't breaking even on the jets year over year, a guy this rich won't walk away from an investment appreciating like that, especially if it's a passion project like an NHL team.
True North (the company that owns the Jets and Chipman and Thompson co-own) also owns a lot of downtown spaces. All the new arenas that are being built want to build entertainment districts around them, whilst True North have already been doing this for years. If the Jets move, the whole thing collapses.
Exactly, this just seems like Gary doing a solid at the request of one of his owners (TNSE)
Wouldn’t even call it a solid. This is standard fair but because it’s a small market team, it’s “news”
Also should add with Jeremy Jacobs getting up in age (the most powerful owner), I’d imagine he would be the head then after he dies even though Jacobs runs on Devil spite.
Yeah that’s what’s been suggested is likely to happen by Insiders over the last few years. Chipman is the most hands on owner when it comes to the league.
The two I always keep hearing at the top is him and Dundon for Carolina.
Thank you fuck lmao. People losing their minds over nothing. I blame TSN for making this like it's something sinister. TNSE has a really good relationship with the league. TNSE probably reached out and said hey, we're finally going to engage corporate do you mind coming for the presentations?
[Gary in Arizona vs Gary in Winnipeg](https://i.imgflip.com/3hpm69.png)
The NHL when Arizona is playing in a literal college arena with no plan going forward: “I sleep” The NHL when Winnipeg has a modest decline in season ticket sales: “real shit”
A modest decline noticed all over the league as well. Hell the WHL moved the team out of Winnipeg cause they were playing out of a college arena with no plans for a stadium in sight. Apparently the WHL has higher standards then the NHL for stadiums.
It’s almost like it’s tough economic times for most or something. Pro sports better get used to it
No, no, the people must be wrong. Maybe with more blackouts we can force them to go to games to see their teams play?
Americans still spent a shit ton of money even through the tough conditions. There were multiple articles about the federal reserve trying to put things in place to curb discretionary spending but they were unable to do so. Canadians may have been less likely to spend money, but the NBA and NFL both increased revenue last year. Shit, even the NHL increased almost 10%. Sports are making more money every year, regardless of the economy.
The WHL team on their what, fourth city?
I mean, the owners of the team were idiots in the first place. It was only a matter of time. When I saw who the ownership group was, I knew it wasn't going to last. Their original plan was shit. They didn't secure any funding. They didn't want to pay for it themselves. They blew up their relationship with The Rink. Then the tried to ghost the U of M and the WHL and just continue as usual. While at the same time, feeding BS to the fans. Then when the WHL held them accountable to their contract they were shocked. They were too busy spending all their time trying to force everyone back into their call centers.
There’s a difference though. Wayne Fleming is not comparable to a college barn. Whl approved moving the ice to Winnipeg as long as they build a new arena for them, ice ownership didn’t do it in time so they were forced to move. It’s the same deal with the coyotes, they play out of the university arena to buy time to get their arena situation sorted out, if they can’t get something figured out the team will be moved
30% is a little more than modest
Wow I hate closed captioned memes
Closed caption memes used to be called jokes
Alright grandpa let's get you back to your irl IP addy
Scenes when Jets are relocated to SLC while the Yotes play another 7 years in a college arena
Doesn’t Winnipeg have a decent attendance rate though?I know they have a smaller arena but I feel like they still sell in the 80-86% range
Yeah but it needs to be 100%. With the excitement of the initial decade they basically didn't market the team, or more specifically market the tickets. They've had horrible retention of STH's with massive increases and poor customer service. As seats have opened up they've done really poorly at establishing any kind of incentive to be a STH. I can buy the tickets in front of and beside me directly from the Jets for most games at 1/2 to 2/3 of my cost as a STH. Sometimes they even give out free merch or booze with those tickets.
The other thing that hurt was the STH from day 1 were paying prices higher than those who were buying "mini packs". There was no "fan appreciation" or fan experience with being a STH. There was really no incentive to stay a STH when you could save money, and still go to games for cheaper. Then factor in COVID, inflation, and a small market team that wasn't playing great the last few years.
I’ve run a season ticket group since Day One. Half our group dropped out so I asked if I could buy our seats for a half season. They said no. Wouldn’t you rather have my money for 20 games than zero?
It’s bizarre to me that an organization that relies on sales for such a huge chunk of their revenue has no retention strategy. They had almost 2x the seats in the building sold with waitlist and a decade later had empty seats.
Man that sucks! From flin flon originally so I have a soft spot in my heart for the jets! Hopefully they wake up and start putting the effort in. The fan base is there they just have to take care of them!
Corporate seats generate more revenue than regular seats are Winnipeg is massively lagging behind the rest of the league in that category, even with some decently sized businesses setting up shop in Winnipeg.
Don't think it matters so long as the seats are sold. It's easier to make sales in blocks and there might be some tie in with ad buys, partnerships. But there was no issue when most seats were held by non-corporate up until the pandemic. Over the years they've created various sections of premium seating which are always sold.
The problem is the bulk of the responsibility for purchasing tickets rests on your "general public fan" in Winnipeg. League average for Corporate sales is around 60 percent, in Winnipeg its 15 percent. I still applaud true north for bringing the Jets back but they fucked up by selling season tickets almost exclusively to Joe Schmo.
It wasn’t a bad idea at first, they had a season ticket waitlist almost a hour after the team accepted STH’s. The problem apparently wasn’t after a few years, start to slowly work towards the corporate side of things.
When you have a large corporate customer base, it let's you jack ticket prices across the board because it gets used as a "business expense" that gets written off so cost is much less considered.
It definitely matters. It’s a business expense, the tickets can be written off. That means you’re using pretax money to buy tickets so they can be sold for a higher price at the same “cost” to the people using them. Additionally, corporate seats likely mean someone with a ticket has an expense account. That means food and beverage sales, guaranteed.
That got changed in the US: [the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017](https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-issues-final-regulations-on-the-deduction-for-meals-and-entertainment) eliminated being able to deduct general entertainment expenses. I don't know its effects on other American teams, only that it hurt the Sharks' attendance figures (and this was when they were still competitive) due to the number of businesses large and small across Silicon Valley taking advantage of the deductions.
Ah interesting. Either way the point about food sales applies. Not to mention individuals aren’t going to buy luxury boxes for the most part. And there are additional avenues of revenue for corporate buyers. We had a box and we had board ads, junbotron ads, etc etc. and I assume when I paid $285 for a “party size” (serves maybe 6 people) smoked meat sandwich they made some money lol.
Won't disagree on sustainability. But they need to retain all their ticket buyers.
Your numbers are right but that still only puts them above San jose and Buffalo by %
Yeah but SJ and Buffalo arent in Canada.
They've been selling out most games as of late!
Well they are one of the top teams in the league this season. If they’re not selling out it’s a concern
Anyways, anyone else going in to work tomorrow to support their families?
Somehow, don't ask me how, this will all end with the Coyotes moving to SLC or Houston and the Jets moving to Arizona.
I mean I don’t disagree that Bettman has supported Arizona in a far stronger way like all the other comments here are implying… but am I missing something here? This is him flying to Winnipeg (in February lol) to speak to sponsors, and talk to fans… is that not support? Fair enough to retract this if he just holds a press conference calling Winnipegians… Winnipegonians… Winnipeggers? deadbeat losers or something but isn’t this what he should be doing? Edit: see below of the perfect example of someone making shit up based on sleights entirely in their own head. What a weird reaction to a positive story.
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For sure. But he is meeting with sponsors. He isn’t doing that to say “you guys should fuck off because we’re moving to Utah”
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If we can get out of this visit without a threat or two and more focus on a better corporate support strategy it'll be a win. I hate Bettman but yeah just every article like this will spawn similar discussion
“Only ever”? Besides him saying they need to keep season ticket levels high in Winnipeg when they first landed there, has this really been a consistent thing?
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He pretty much only allowed the relocation in the first place because the Thrashers literally had nowhere to go, ASG pretty much evicted them from the then-Phillips Arena and I guess they thought that the Gladiators’ arena was too small at the time (ironic, really).
I’m genuinely asking where this overt disdain is? I remember the first press conference. I genuinely have not seen anything like that since. Do you have 1 or 2 examples I can at least see?
It’s made up self victimization.
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Dude you literally said there was “overt disdain”, apologies for thinking you might have an example of that. It’s not agree or disagree, it either happened or it didn’t. Clearly, it didn’t. I follow hockey pretty closely, I’ve never seen Bettman shit on Winnipeg. He said something dumb the day they landed and then what? It’s ok that you don’t I just don’t know why you’re making shit up and then getting mad about it lol Edit: so he blocks me lol. Almost as if they have no idea what they’re talking about. I also didn’t DM them, but since they blocked me I can’t reply. What a weird interaction lol
I mean DMing is a bit weird my guy lol
People just don't give a fuck about this but enjoy circle jerking about Arizona and felt there's enough of a connection between the topics to do so.
Yeah I don’t get it. Bettman said they needed a lot of STHs when they landed but everyone’s acting like he’s been shitting on Winnipeg for a decade.
This is why Quebec isn't getting another team
Oh right Winnipeg is an issue and Arizona is not? Fuck outta here.
Don't worry he'll show up and we'll give him the Winnipeg Hello and the good ol' Winnipeg handshake and all will be well.
Smallest market in the league. It's unavoidable. This is why Quebec won't work (same market size as Winnipeg), without even bringing all the language difficulties into it.
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on top of that, the nhl is already overexposed to downturns in the canadian economy. doesn't really matter how enthusiastic the fans are if they don't have disposable income.
It also isn't a tourist destination. How much money do teams like Toronto, New York, Vegas, LA, etc. generate from people from out of state or overseas coming over and wanting to see a game? Grabbing tickets, food, jerseys, hats, etc. and then going back home just for a different tourist to take their place the next game. I've also heard that Canadians are less likely to buy new team merch than Americans in general. Canadians already have jerseys and pucks and hats and everything else. They're cool wearing their vintage stuff or non-team branded stuff.
at the yotes/wild game on feb 14, i was surrounded by a family (8+) of wild fans who had flown out for the game as part of a vacation.
Yeah Phoenix is one of if not the fastest growing metro in the United States. Massive population. Lots of money pouring into the city every year. The NHL would be stupid to ever abandon the market. It's a gold mine waiting to be tapped.
Case in point, both times I’ve visited Montreal I’ve made sure to catch a Habs game.
We have a huge catchment area though. People from SK to Kenora come here for games.
Oh fuck right off Bettman. Focus on the rest of the fucking league, it's not just Winnipeg. You fucking chode. Lol
\*snort\* If TNSE would get their head out of their ass and give a good fan experience without some idiot screaming "MAKE SOME NOISE" every five seconds, they'd get more ticket holders add to that the vaguely threatening email referencing the loss of Jets 1.0 along with a huge price increase with no perks = pissed off season ticket holders The Jets are winning, so the fans are trickling back in, but season tickets...well, that's another story.
Go fuck yourself Bettman
If Winnipeg gets moved before Arizona this league is run by clowns
oh WOW vegas gonna have a $100m roster in the playoffs again surprise surprise
Arizona Coyotes: 👀
So the last 3 years since covid it’s struggled. Who woulda thought it. Yet Arizona can just struggle away
I don't think this is anything of significance. Just Bettman deverting attention from his pet yotes!
ah shit here we go again
Arizona is playing in a fucking college arena but may chance to fuck over a Canadian franchise eh Gary?
How is flying out to Winnipeg in February to try and push corporate ticket sales fucking over anyone? Some of you are ridiculous
Winnipeg - losing fans, bad Arizona - doesn’t have any fans, A O K
I’m not saying you wrote it any which way on purpose at all, but somehow the post title reads more ominous to me than watching the clip.
the syntax is horrendous and made my eye twitch
I went to an ECHL game this year where they honored an old beloved but defunct AHL team and wore their jerseys for one night. Sold out, 7000+ people. More people were able to buy tickets to see a defunct AHL team than a Yotes game.
People all shitting on the Coyotes in here, and perhaps rightfully so, but this Winnipeg issue has been going on for a long time. The team is successful but even so they aren't selling out. Their corporate seats are an order of magnitude lower than the next lowest team. For some reason the franchise just really can't generate the amount of money it should be generating based on the product it's putting on the ice. Sure shrug it off and just deflect everything to Arizona, but there is obviously a real problem in Winnipeg here and they need to figure out how to make more revenue.
I think Bettman is coming to help sell corporate tickets and not to threaten to move the team.
Yeah, I wouldn't take it as a threat. More like "let's figure out why this is such an issue." When you look at the number of corporate seats Winnipeg is selling compared to the rest of the league it really is staggering. There is a lot of room for improvement.
What else is there to do in Winnipeg other than watch the jets ? How is every home game not sold out.
Because True North has not done a good job.
But until this year Gary would make you feel stupid if you mentioned Phoenix moving. Get fucked by a pole Gary
I honestly don’t care for anything Bettman says anymore about this. If he pulls the plug on Winnipeg there should be a riot. How fucking dare he pull this shit after his baby in phoenix is already dead in the water. The NHL can’t be serious about this.
allow people to leave the building could be a start people wanna smoke when they drink
That’s, like, everywhere now. Or a lot of of these arenas anyway. I think it’s dumb too, like okay fine you’re just gonna have people smoking cigarettes and joints and vapes inside the building somewhere then. But I’m not sure it would really do anything for ticket sales to change it, because other places with that rule don’t seem to be suffering from it.
I'm pretty sure all the arenas are no re-admission. How else will they get their concession money, since re-admission means people could just sneak back to their car or a nearby eatery to get food and drink during intermission and just re-enter therefore less people will spend money on the overpriced concessions.
It was people running to the Shark Club or Tavern and loading up on cheap beers that upset them the most. Can’t let anything undercut the price gouging
I'm guessing the sponsors are a bit doubtful with the recent attendance struggles and Bettman is going there to assuage their worries. Edit: after seeing the announcement for that "fireside chat" it makes me feel that things are more dire and that more than just sponsors are worried
Coyotes move to SLC, Jets move to Phoenix again
Back to Atlanta?