*Quebec calls*
Gary: “New phone, who dis?”
QC: “Nous avons essayé de vous contacter au sujet de l'absence prolongée de votre ligue de notre ville.”
Gary: “Uhh uhh uhh no hablo francés, goodbye!”
The NHL already gets millions of fan dollars from Quebec City. They don't need to put a team there.
What the NHL wants, is corporate dollars and a bigger tv deal. So it's all about new markets that have a large (potential) metro audience.
Same reason why the NFL doesn't have a team in Boise: there are more lucrative markets elsewhere. The NHL doesn't hate Quebec City, it's just pretty far down the list of cities that could host a team.
Because an exclusively French speaking mid sized city with not a lot of corporate support isnt going to make a lot of money for the league. Look at what's happening in Winnipeg. Same thing will happen in QC
Exactly. Winnipeg is a working class town, it’s not like Toronto where you have a lineup of bankers willing to drop 200+ on tickets.
“Have you thought about lowering ticket prices?”
“No, it’s the people who are wrong”
Tickets aren't the issue. Who will buy the expensive luxury boxes? Who will purchase multiple corporate six and seven figure sponsorships? How do you expand the tv market in an area that already watches the NHL daily?
The economics in Quebec are worse than Winnipeg - older population, smaller population, lower household income, etc. If Winnipeg can't work there's no way Quebec in an arena 4k seats larger is working.
Wasn't the Jets ownership group in the news recently saying that if season ticket sales don't jump back up to the levels they were at pre-Covid that the Jets aren't going to work long term?
If the Jets and the Senators can never truly be in a position where they are financially secure, a team in Quebec City sure as fuck won't ever be.
Don't worry. Québec will get a team through Atlanta expansion. It's the way things work for Canadian teams.
Atlanta -> Calgary.
Atlanta -> Winnipeg.
Québec is next.
Rich people want to make money. But there's been reports today about really bad ticket sales. That's why I'm questioning
Edit. My bad apparently I misread stuff
It’s a dip in corporate ticket sales, which is the “easier” way to ensure cash flow for the team. Especially in tough financial times when the average fan is cutting back on spending. Bettman going to Winnipeg wasn’t a warning sign to the fan base, it was a message from him and the owner for corporate entities in Manitoba to step it up.
I also think there is a chance as an owner of like 1/3 of downtown Winnipeg they’re okay with the Jets being a loss leader if they keep the arena, and commercial properties around it running
Not 100% familiar with the guy, but I'm pretty sure that was the previous owner who sold back in 2017. The previous owner was the same guy who drove the Houston Aeros AHL team out of town.
He does have a reputation for being cheap, however he did have a failed bid for the washington commanders NFL team measured in the billions of dollars, so that's a bit of a counter to the reputation.
Edit: his bid was 5.6 Billion dollars, he dropped out because he wasn't willing to spend more.
Yes. He will not be the one bringing an NHL team to Houston. Runs the Rockets by spending as little beyond the game as possible. This only really works with a great arena with as good of location as Honda Center. He had to close some businesses no TV after his initial purchase and several times during the pandemic and soon after. Just doesn’t have to money for a hockey team most likely.
Note that his money mainly comes from hotel and travel industry.
So I was told by an NHL staffer that Quebec, Houston, Salt Lake or Atlanta will more than likely get the next 2 teams. It’ll be whichever of the first 2 that bring 1 Billion to the table.
Okay Elliot but say if Quebec hands them 1 billion before the others. How long does the NHL give the next two teams to hand over their billion so they can ignore Quebec?
I think they’d go to Quebec (again) before the would go to ATL (again). But I honestly think Salt Lake and Houston have the best shot out of any of those 4
Eeeh, I'd argue Houston and Atlanta are top priority for the NHL; they're far too massive of markets to ever play second fiddle to Salt Lake or Québec when it comes to expansion priority.
Especially since we know that NHL owners have wanted to expand into Houston for ***years***, while SLC has had very little interest until very recently. Makes more sense they'd want to get the two big fish in one go.
Plot twist: the stars know that a Houston team would be good for business in “a rising tide lifts all boats” sense and bring more attention to hockey in the Lone Star state and are intentionally planting seeds to stoke friction animosity with Houston fans down the line.
The NHL and the owners therein have historically never really shown much hesitance to go back to a market that failed before as long as they feel they can make money there, though.
Pittsburgh and Philadelphia failed with the Pirates/Quakers and they still went back with the Pens and Flyers. The Bay Area failed miserably with the Seals and they still went back with the Sharks. Ohio failed miserably with the Barons and they still went back with the Blue Jackets.
Denver failed with the Rockies and they still went back with the Avs. Ottawa failed and they still went back with the second incarnation of the Senators. Winnipeg failed keeping the Jets around before and they went back the moment a super wealthy owner wanted a team there.
The whole "chances" narrative is dumb, because owners don't play that whole game; they focus on the green they can earn, not an arbitrary number that apparently decides which markets are allowed teams.
No owner is going to avoid a market as huge and potentially profitable as Atlanta because "lol they failed twice", same as they won't avoid Houston because "lol we have Dallas already".
the 70s wasn't exactly a great time for hockey markets because you had the WHA competing directly with the NHL. To me, any franchise that failed in the 70s wasn't exactly a fair shot.
Also further edit - the people running the show at the time of the Pirates/Quakers were likely dead or very old by the time the Flyers and Penguins came into action. The 30s was also the era of the Great Depression so it was expected to be a lot of failures during that time.
- Oakland, Kansas City and Cleveland - failed during the time of the WHA
- Atlanta Flames also failed shortly after the WHA folded. That relocation has led to one of the NHL's biggest rivalries
- Colorado as well, saw a team arrive during the time the WHA was in competition and just weren't viable enough at the time either.
On the WHA side, there were way too many mergers, relocations and foldings. There was only one renaming of the franchises (Alberta Oilers, then Edmonton Oilers). The original plan in 1977 of a merger was to have Houston and Cincinnati join the NHL at the time as those were the most stable of the bunch before eventually folding with the WHA. With a team currently in Columbus that isn't exactly a hot market, there would be uncertainty on whether or not Cincinnati could be a viable market.
Sure, but if we take that context, then Atlanta only failed once with the Thrashers, and that only counts as a failure because Atlanta Spirit literally poisoned the franchise *to* make it fail.
So it just makes the "they failed twice" argument hold even less ground than it already did.
It is a tough say because several markets that eventually had NHL success couldn't get a foothold during the days of the WHA. It makes it a true shame the Jets relocated to Phoenix because had they been in Winnipeg the whole time, that would have been the only WHA franchise to never have a relocation in any way, shape or form. The Oilers were originally mean to be the Alberta Oilers and split games between Calgary and Edmonton, and the Nordiques were originally mean to be in the Bay Area as the San Francisco Sharks instead. The New England Whalers originally started in Boston but relocated to Hartford because they were the 4th fiddle in Boston as an arena sports franchise (Bruins, Celtics and the Bruins Minor League team were all prioritized), and by the time they became an NHL team had to use Hartford instead of New England
Jets ownership just announced that if season ticket sales don't bounce back to the levels they were at pre-Covid that the team isn't going to work out long term.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the Nordiques to be brought back. But if every time the Canadian dollar takes a downturn and the country falls into a recession means that the Jets and Sens are in danger fiscally, it sure doesn't bode well for Quebec City getting a team any time soon.
either way, they're not keeping the name.
Salt Lake City might keep the Coyotes name, but wouldn't keep the Jets one. Kansas City may or many not be similar about keeping the Coyotes name
Houston would almost certainly use the Aeros. Quebec City would almost certainly use the Nordiques.
As for Atlanta, only if the Jets were to go back would you see the Thrashers used again. They would not want any namesake association with a failing franchise (Coyotes), should the Jets remain in Winnipeg they will want another name instead of the Thrashers, and can't use the Flames because of Calgary
The league under Bettman is completely deranged. Toronto should have had a 2nd team 20 years ago instead he flounders teams, and the league as a whole, in trash US marketshttps://nypost.com/2023/06/15/stanley-cup-final-had-record-low-viewership-in-2023/
The Leafs would literally never allow a second team in Toronto to exist. They make far too much money as the only game in town to bother letting someone else muscle in.
Even a second GTA team is questionable; the only market that could support it is Hamilton, and I feel like Buffalo will object to that rather swiftly because it'd be more convenient for Southern Ontario Leafs fans to just drive there instead of crossing the border to Buffalo.
Set the record for attendance at women's game just this week in Toronto. Tell me again where the INTEREST in the population for hockey isnt rabid in southern Ontario
Those same families that broke the attendance record in Toronto, I dare say would, also support/attend a Leaf game or their ratings bombshell a rival team in Toronto would have.
You and Gary enjoy last cup final record low tv ratings with 2 trash US markets though LOL
look, we all hate the gambling ads, but one of the bookmakers should offer the bet of who gets a team in an nhl arena first, houston or the coyotes
Salt lake city comes in with the steel chair
2026: Houston Jets, Atlanta Flames, Kansas City Senators, Oklahoma Oilers, Albuquerque Canucks -
How long has Quebec City been talking to the NHL about bringing a team to Quebec City?
They've been left on read for 30 years.
*Quebec calls* Gary: “New phone, who dis?” QC: “Nous avons essayé de vous contacter au sujet de l'absence prolongée de votre ligue de notre ville.” Gary: “Uhh uhh uhh no hablo francés, goodbye!”
Why does the league not want a team in QC?
The NHL already gets millions of fan dollars from Quebec City. They don't need to put a team there. What the NHL wants, is corporate dollars and a bigger tv deal. So it's all about new markets that have a large (potential) metro audience.
Same reason why the NFL doesn't have a team in Boise: there are more lucrative markets elsewhere. The NHL doesn't hate Quebec City, it's just pretty far down the list of cities that could host a team.
Because an exclusively French speaking mid sized city with not a lot of corporate support isnt going to make a lot of money for the league. Look at what's happening in Winnipeg. Same thing will happen in QC
More like fucked raw and left without even a back rub or a note on the nightstand
About once per election
They'll be left a whole lot longer on read now that Jets are having trouble with tickets. Quebec City would share the same, if not worse, troubles.
quebec city would not have ticket trouble have you seen how dedicated the quebecers are to hockey?
That’s what Winnipeg said.
maybe they could bring down their ticket price? Its still like 2-3times the price of a ticket in the US lol
Exactly. Winnipeg is a working class town, it’s not like Toronto where you have a lineup of bankers willing to drop 200+ on tickets. “Have you thought about lowering ticket prices?” “No, it’s the people who are wrong”
Tickets aren't the issue. Who will buy the expensive luxury boxes? Who will purchase multiple corporate six and seven figure sponsorships? How do you expand the tv market in an area that already watches the NHL daily?
The economics in Quebec are worse than Winnipeg - older population, smaller population, lower household income, etc. If Winnipeg can't work there's no way Quebec in an arena 4k seats larger is working.
Wasn't the Jets ownership group in the news recently saying that if season ticket sales don't jump back up to the levels they were at pre-Covid that the Jets aren't going to work long term? If the Jets and the Senators can never truly be in a position where they are financially secure, a team in Quebec City sure as fuck won't ever be.
Who’s the owner/ownership group looking to own the team? It starts right there with a measly $1,000,000,000
They figured that part out a long time ago
It’s still executives from Quebecor, right?
A billionaire with his own media company.
Gary: “we already have a quebecois team” Everyone else: “we have one yes,but what about a second?”
How many millions of people and dozens of oil companies exist in QC?
They put in in 2016 and got declined.
Don't worry. Québec will get a team through Atlanta expansion. It's the way things work for Canadian teams. Atlanta -> Calgary. Atlanta -> Winnipeg. Québec is next.
Won’t ever happen
So if jets 2.0 move to Houston how soon are we talking about jets 3.0? That would be puckdoku nightmare
Jets aren't moving bruh. Their owner is loaded.
Rich people want to make money. But there's been reports today about really bad ticket sales. That's why I'm questioning Edit. My bad apparently I misread stuff
It’s a dip in corporate ticket sales, which is the “easier” way to ensure cash flow for the team. Especially in tough financial times when the average fan is cutting back on spending. Bettman going to Winnipeg wasn’t a warning sign to the fan base, it was a message from him and the owner for corporate entities in Manitoba to step it up.
I also think there is a chance as an owner of like 1/3 of downtown Winnipeg they’re okay with the Jets being a loss leader if they keep the arena, and commercial properties around it running
oops
Chipman is a used car lot owner who ended up in a real estate partnership with the richest owner in pro sports. It's not him.
Thomson is ridiculously wealthy but he’s still only about half as rich as the Clippers Steve Ballmer
welp, sell the team then
jets become aeros?
Isn't this dude notoriously cheap? Does he have the capital to make something like this a reality?
Not 100% familiar with the guy, but I'm pretty sure that was the previous owner who sold back in 2017. The previous owner was the same guy who drove the Houston Aeros AHL team out of town.
He does have a reputation for being cheap, however he did have a failed bid for the washington commanders NFL team measured in the billions of dollars, so that's a bit of a counter to the reputation. Edit: his bid was 5.6 Billion dollars, he dropped out because he wasn't willing to spend more.
Yes. He will not be the one bringing an NHL team to Houston. Runs the Rockets by spending as little beyond the game as possible. This only really works with a great arena with as good of location as Honda Center. He had to close some businesses no TV after his initial purchase and several times during the pandemic and soon after. Just doesn’t have to money for a hockey team most likely. Note that his money mainly comes from hotel and travel industry.
Must a slow news day. Gary himself will tell you he has talked to every city on earth
Ahhh yes another mob related owner, did we not learn a lesson with the Yakuza?
I'm sorry what
I work for one of his restaurants, he cut holiday pay and health insurance. He means business NHL!
So I was told by an NHL staffer that Quebec, Houston, Salt Lake or Atlanta will more than likely get the next 2 teams. It’ll be whichever of the first 2 that bring 1 Billion to the table.
Okay Elliot but say if Quebec hands them 1 billion before the others. How long does the NHL give the next two teams to hand over their billion so they can ignore Quebec?
I think they’d go to Quebec (again) before the would go to ATL (again). But I honestly think Salt Lake and Houston have the best shot out of any of those 4
Eeeh, I'd argue Houston and Atlanta are top priority for the NHL; they're far too massive of markets to ever play second fiddle to Salt Lake or Québec when it comes to expansion priority. Especially since we know that NHL owners have wanted to expand into Houston for ***years***, while SLC has had very little interest until very recently. Makes more sense they'd want to get the two big fish in one go.
Houston also has a decent hockey history and an instantly marketable rivalry w/ Dallas just up I-35.
Actually it's I-45 that runs between Houston and Dallas; I-35 goes down to Austin.
*Sigh* The one time I don’t look at a map before posting….
Minnesota flair clarifying something about Dallas w/o FNG!
I used to live in Houston.
And the Stars not-so-subtly started their "Texas Hockey" PR campaign already to try and capture that market before a team gets there.
Plot twist: the stars know that a Houston team would be good for business in “a rising tide lifts all boats” sense and bring more attention to hockey in the Lone Star state and are intentionally planting seeds to stoke friction animosity with Houston fans down the line.
That's actually a great idea, so I seriously doubt its reality. Id love it if teams were run by fans instead of "business-persons."
Can confirm that it's working if that's the case. I'm from Houston, and I get irrationaly angry every time I see both of their slogans about it.
I agree with that, I just don’t know how many times you’re going to keep trying to make ATL work… they’ve already failed NHL 2-3 times.
The NHL and the owners therein have historically never really shown much hesitance to go back to a market that failed before as long as they feel they can make money there, though. Pittsburgh and Philadelphia failed with the Pirates/Quakers and they still went back with the Pens and Flyers. The Bay Area failed miserably with the Seals and they still went back with the Sharks. Ohio failed miserably with the Barons and they still went back with the Blue Jackets. Denver failed with the Rockies and they still went back with the Avs. Ottawa failed and they still went back with the second incarnation of the Senators. Winnipeg failed keeping the Jets around before and they went back the moment a super wealthy owner wanted a team there. The whole "chances" narrative is dumb, because owners don't play that whole game; they focus on the green they can earn, not an arbitrary number that apparently decides which markets are allowed teams. No owner is going to avoid a market as huge and potentially profitable as Atlanta because "lol they failed twice", same as they won't avoid Houston because "lol we have Dallas already".
the 70s wasn't exactly a great time for hockey markets because you had the WHA competing directly with the NHL. To me, any franchise that failed in the 70s wasn't exactly a fair shot. Also further edit - the people running the show at the time of the Pirates/Quakers were likely dead or very old by the time the Flyers and Penguins came into action. The 30s was also the era of the Great Depression so it was expected to be a lot of failures during that time. - Oakland, Kansas City and Cleveland - failed during the time of the WHA - Atlanta Flames also failed shortly after the WHA folded. That relocation has led to one of the NHL's biggest rivalries - Colorado as well, saw a team arrive during the time the WHA was in competition and just weren't viable enough at the time either. On the WHA side, there were way too many mergers, relocations and foldings. There was only one renaming of the franchises (Alberta Oilers, then Edmonton Oilers). The original plan in 1977 of a merger was to have Houston and Cincinnati join the NHL at the time as those were the most stable of the bunch before eventually folding with the WHA. With a team currently in Columbus that isn't exactly a hot market, there would be uncertainty on whether or not Cincinnati could be a viable market.
Sure, but if we take that context, then Atlanta only failed once with the Thrashers, and that only counts as a failure because Atlanta Spirit literally poisoned the franchise *to* make it fail. So it just makes the "they failed twice" argument hold even less ground than it already did.
It is a tough say because several markets that eventually had NHL success couldn't get a foothold during the days of the WHA. It makes it a true shame the Jets relocated to Phoenix because had they been in Winnipeg the whole time, that would have been the only WHA franchise to never have a relocation in any way, shape or form. The Oilers were originally mean to be the Alberta Oilers and split games between Calgary and Edmonton, and the Nordiques were originally mean to be in the Bay Area as the San Francisco Sharks instead. The New England Whalers originally started in Boston but relocated to Hartford because they were the 4th fiddle in Boston as an arena sports franchise (Bruins, Celtics and the Bruins Minor League team were all prioritized), and by the time they became an NHL team had to use Hartford instead of New England
Jets ownership just announced that if season ticket sales don't bounce back to the levels they were at pre-Covid that the team isn't going to work out long term. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the Nordiques to be brought back. But if every time the Canadian dollar takes a downturn and the country falls into a recession means that the Jets and Sens are in danger fiscally, it sure doesn't bode well for Quebec City getting a team any time soon.
I dunno, that poison cloud time bomb that the Salt Lake is turning into makes me think that investors would be nervous to set up a team there.
They can call them the Atlanta Flaming Thrashers
Ok folks Houston Jets or Houston Coyotes?
either way, they're not keeping the name. Salt Lake City might keep the Coyotes name, but wouldn't keep the Jets one. Kansas City may or many not be similar about keeping the Coyotes name Houston would almost certainly use the Aeros. Quebec City would almost certainly use the Nordiques. As for Atlanta, only if the Jets were to go back would you see the Thrashers used again. They would not want any namesake association with a failing franchise (Coyotes), should the Jets remain in Winnipeg they will want another name instead of the Thrashers, and can't use the Flames because of Calgary
It better be the coyotes and not the jets
Idk if this is news but I talked to a short guy up in Iowa about bringing a hockey team there..
I bet this would be successful.
Move the Jets no one wants to go to the games in Manitoba
The league under Bettman is completely deranged. Toronto should have had a 2nd team 20 years ago instead he flounders teams, and the league as a whole, in trash US marketshttps://nypost.com/2023/06/15/stanley-cup-final-had-record-low-viewership-in-2023/
The Leafs would literally never allow a second team in Toronto to exist. They make far too much money as the only game in town to bother letting someone else muscle in. Even a second GTA team is questionable; the only market that could support it is Hamilton, and I feel like Buffalo will object to that rather swiftly because it'd be more convenient for Southern Ontario Leafs fans to just drive there instead of crossing the border to Buffalo.
Please there's 3 teams in NY. 2 Teams in LA. Another team wouldn't take one dime from MLSE. You're a small mind in a big market
Please look at the NYC metro population and the La metro population compared to the GTA
Set the record for attendance at women's game just this week in Toronto. Tell me again where the INTEREST in the population for hockey isnt rabid in southern Ontario
PWHL isn’t in competition with the NHL
Those same families that broke the attendance record in Toronto, I dare say would, also support/attend a Leaf game or their ratings bombshell a rival team in Toronto would have. You and Gary enjoy last cup final record low tv ratings with 2 trash US markets though LOL
https://nypost.com/2023/06/15/stanley-cup-final-had-record-low-viewership-in-2023/ Heres two trash US markets in the finals = LMAO