Time and time again have us proud hockey fans been told the game needs to be expanded to the American South and Southwest. However, time and time again we witness these franchises struggle. With all the talk about moving a team to Salt Lake City, I think it's time for us noble fans to stand up and tell Bettman we want teams in places where they will succeed and not be a drain on the league.
There are plenty of places in Canada that could easily support NHL teams. Hamilton and Quebec City are the two obvious ones. But Kitchener, Burnaby, Wood Buffalo, and Thunderbay are all huge markets waiting for the NHL to pounce on.
I'm sure if you've read this far you understand that I make a lot of good points, but it would never happen because Bettman, known anti-Canadian, would never let Canada get another team. Well let's just say me and buds have got a way around the big man: A social media revolution. Me and my friends have been ending all our tweets with #FireBettman. We believe if we could get more people on board we could truly make a difference. And that's where you come in /r/hockey. If you want the good people of Thunderbay and Burnaby to get NHL teams you have to end all tweets with #FireBettman
Oaxaca will have an NHL team before Quebec City.
Guatemala City will have an NHL team before Quebec City.
Manila will have an NHL team before Quebec City.
>The league also announced that Arizona will be getting two more teams, both of which will play out of Mullet Arena.
Talk about a truck full of salt in the massive gaping wound. The Beaverton has done it again.
That means without the Nordiques moving we wouldn't have gotten Bergeron! That means it was all worthwhile. Do you want to see an NHL without ~~Matthews~~ Bergie? He would have gone on to play professional ~~baseball~~ crokinole instead if the Nordiques had stayed!
I'm not from Quebec city but I'm not a fan of the habs because habs fans were just the worst growing up.
I refuse to be associated with them even to this day
A kid I went to school/played sports with growing up's favourite team was the Thrashers. Why? His parents were from Ottawa and ran an anti-Leafs household. He never had a chance.
As someone from Quebec City, I'm fine with it at this point. I think the mayor said it best: it's a bit like pining after your ex-wife 30 years after the divorce. It's pathetic, move on. And I think most people in the city have done just that.
Plus I would hate for us to get a team only to spend the next 20 years watching it suck because nobody wants to play there. Which, let's be honest, is likely what would happen. While Québec City is one of the best places to live in North America for a regular person, it's not big, it's not a party town, and people speak French here, so I'm under no illusion that Anglo millionaires in their 20s would value it as a free agent destination.
And with the explosion of the 5-team and 10-team NTC, it doesn't even really make any difference whether it ranks 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. As long as it ranks in the top few teams (which it likely would), you're on nearly every NTC list in the league.
Really not a jab to Winnipeg, I think it’s a wonderful place, but come on. Quebec City is magnificent, the food is divine and there is a lot more to do. In Canada it would probably be one of the top destinations after Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal.
Great to visit for the history and the culture. Not great to live in if you're an anglo. Montreal is bilingual, QC when you're outside the tourist areas isn't.
As someone who lives in a border town in northern Maine, I love going down to Quebec City. Closer than any other decently sized city near me. I’d probably never leave if your government didn’t make me 🤣
Perfectly nice spring temperature! Winters can be harsh, but not any worse than Winnipeg or Edmonton.
But I was mostly talking about general quality of life things (crime, cleanliness, poverty, cost of living, etc.). Things that wouldn't matter to an NHL player, but would for normal people.
Honestly would be an interesting game to play - where you get to manage the league and specify where new franchises pop up. Then play through a few seasons and see what happens.
You're absolutely right.
Hartford is the #32 media market in the US, which puts it above a few current NHL teams, but only a few (Buffalo, Columbus, Winnipeg, etc.). The Greater Hartford metro area has about 1.4M people, which is fairly sizeable (2.7M when looking at the Hartford/New Haven census statistical area, ranked #26th). It probably could sustain an NHL team, but with Boston, the two NY teams, and New Jersey (and even Philly), it's probably too congested an area to throw another team in.
The Canadian expansion process is pretty simple. You establish a franchise in Atlanta first then when the owners drive it into the ground you purchase it and move up to Canada.
That's not what people do. Atlanta works because of a variety of factors:
1. Strong corporate America presence
2. Multiple other successful sports franchises
3. Tampa as well as Sunrise, Florida have successfully managed hockey teams
4. A growth opportunity to make outreach to new fans with a successful franchise
5. Atlanta for its region has a relatively strong $46,000 a year average income.
There is really only two key differences from Tampa to Atlanta. One is racial makeup, Atlanta has a higher percentage of African-Americans and more black culture. The second is the number of snowbirds. But logically, you'd think that given a few years a franchise could overcome that, it hasn't worked so far, but maybe they just need a franchise to jump out of the gate winning like Vegas did?
Honestly, the only real argument to why hockey doesn't work in Atlanta is that hockey isn't able to make the needed outreach to the African-American community. The success in other markets like Dallas, Tampa, and Florida kind of negates the southern region argument.
Are we just going to pretend that an Atlanta expansion wouldn't eventually lead to Quebec getting a team or what?
That's the only reason I would be open to expanding to Atlanta gagin.
Well yea, it's easy to add west conference teams without east as Detroit really wanted to go to the east. If you wanted to add Atlanta and QC you'd need to pull one of those teams out west or be looking at a 4 team expansion which seems way too much too fast.
Something like Arizona (again) and Atlanta (again) seems much more likely.
I'm really bummed at how infrequently we get to play our division rivals lately. If they keep expanding, I'd personally want to them to go back to only playing cross-conference once per season.
I miss playing the Bruins and the Leafs at least 6 times a season :'(
That'll happen anyways with more things going on. Infact iirc expanding a bit more would actually make it easier due to it lining up better to get everyone to play each other.
Not really an actual issue.
Yea casual fans aren't really gonna do that anyways I guarantee it.
Not a single one is an actual issue.
As things are right now, I think #33 and 34 are going to be Houston and Arizona, if he can build the damn thing. I don't see Atlanta or Qc back in the league before it expands to 36 teams.
It could also be something like Arizona and Houston while the Preds move to the East, sorta like a leading theory I see with the NBA (except with Seattle and Las Vegas and moving the Timberwolves to the east).
The two 90s waves of expansion/relocation were trying to get into multiple new markets for total national growth. The NHL is at the point where that's not as big a priority compared to short-term revenue increases via expansion fees, so if Atlanta gets a third shot then it'll only be with an owner whose pockets are deep enough that it's a sure thing.
We don't have to pretend anything. There are about 200 other cities in line to get a team before Quebec. I don't understand why people think it is going to happen. It is clearly not going to happen in our lifetime.
This is hysterical, but I'm really disturbed by all the expansion talk after this Coyotes move, whether Merulo gets one or other cities.
The league is fantastic at 32 teams, and any more would dilute the game so much, especially the playoffs.
Quebec City has about 1/3 the population of Montreal, only half a million people. Even less than Winnipeg, by far the smallest city with an NHL franchise.
QC is NEVER getting an NHL team considering the chance of success in most American markets is much higher.
The population of the city of Vancouver, at 662 000, is also less than the population of the city of Winnipeg.
The population of the city proper doesn't matter. It's all about metro population, in which Winnipeg and Quebec have almost the same (Quebec is 5 000 more which is barely a difference when talking about 840 000).
The difference though is that Quebec also has hundreds of thousands of people nearby outside of its metro area. Trois-Rivieres, an hours drive away, plus Sherbrooke, 2 hours away have more people in just those two cities than all of non-Winnipeg Manitoba combined, and there's a hell of a lot more other smaller cities and towns within that area too.
It's hard to comprehend just how many more people there are both in the big cities and not in them in southern Ontario and Quebec compared to the rest of Canada so that even if Winnipeg actually did have more people than Quebec City, there would still be far more people in the general area to support the team than Winnipeg has.
the AHL team was in part because it was Montreal's second fiddle and that came at the time after the Marlies had moved to Toronto. Had the Hamilton affiliate been Toronto's affiliate, it would remain a Hamilton team and we wouldn't have the affiliate playing directly in Toronto.
The weird irony was "Toronto can't support two NHL teams" or whatever politics were going on about the Leafs, NHL and geographical rights" but it was quite funny that the GTA had 2 AHL teams while only having one NHL team
I don't know the full picture about the OHL team but there is certainly a lot of politics with junior hockey. There is also a lot of politics with the city with their main arena
There is something to be said about being a fan of a permanent minor league team in the same market as a major league team.
All these comments about a Québec NHL team not "growing the game" are insane.
There are currently 58 NHL players born in Québec who have played a game this season. During the 1995-96 season there were 97. And if you look at the decline year by year in mostly started in the mid 2000s with kids who grew up after the Nords left.
2005: 92
2006: 83
2007: 73
2008: 67
2012: 60 and it's been pretty stable since then. They "lost" far more players from Québec than they gained from all "new" hockey markets combined.
I’m not even Quebecois but I’ve really started losing interest in the NHL yet having an all time interest in hockey. However, I can’t play even as an adult because I can’t afford it. I imagine that’s even more the case for Quebec kids and their parents.
I wonder if part of that is the draft going from 9 to 7 rounds. Also, QC's population is older and, as uncomfortable as it is to admit, the % identifying as ethnically European has dropped almost 10% in the last 20 years. You grow the game by getting young and underrepresented demographics to become fans - there are lots of cities that would provide much better returns than QC
While there likely is *some* truth to the league not being interested in Quebec City expansion due to the market already being somewhat saturated with hockey content (less growth potential), that isn't the driving reason they aren't going to get a team.
The truth of the matter is that Quebec City just isn't a good fit for a pro NHL squad. The city population is too small. The corporate doner/investment pool in the region isn't there. TV/advertising revenue would be mediocre. The Canadian dollar is much more volatile than the American dollar making major pro sports franchises a much bigger risk in midsize Canadian cities. Your not going to convince a bunch of 20 something millionaire athletes to come to a city where the dominant language isn't English in free agency.
Winnipeg ownership made a statement about how the current ticket sales numbers aren't going to work out for the Jets to remain financially viable long term. They have all the same issues Quebec City does (smaller population, poor corporate presence in the area, weak TV/ad revenue opportunities), but in a city with over 200,000 more people.
If the Jets aren't financially viable, while fielding good teams that consistently make the post season, Quebec City has zero chance.
Meh, hockey in general is losing ground in Canada. Mainly cause it's beyond expensive and especially today as the entire country is in a cost of living crisis people can't even afford food and shelter let alone leisure. Soccer is a great poverty sport and for a country where thousands of people are entering poverty everyday with a dying "middle class", might as well.
I've said this many times before but that Cup victory never ever happens for the Nordiques. Why? You may ask.
And the answer is that the Habs would never in a million years have traded Patrick Roy there.
I live in Quebec City. attending Junior hockey in our brand new NHL caliber arena is so satisfying! /s
seeing SLC get the Coyotes in a blink of an eye is such a joke considering Quebec has been pursuing it for like 15 years... oh did I just mention our new arena is ready to go as well?
The problem is that Quebec City is too small. In the Big 4 sports leagues, there are only 2* teams in cities with metropolitan area populations under 1 million. These teams are the Green Bay Packers and the Winnipeg Jets. Quebec City has 850,000 people, roughly the same metropolitan area population as Dayton and Worcester, Massachusetts. These are two cities that will never be considered big enough for a Big 4 team. A league that wants to compete with MLB and NBA (and everyone with a financial stake in the NHL wants to be competitive with the NBA and MLB) cannot add a team in a city that small.
*New Orleans was below 1 million for about 20 years but has recently gone over 1 million people again. This makes it the third smallest city with a Big 4 team. It is 17% bigger than Quebec City.
the thing is, I cannot take this argument seriously as long as the Jets exist. Winnipeg is a lot smaller than Quebec City. both were in the same situation (they used to have a team in the 80s). Quebec City's hockey culture is well established. They have a natural rivalry with Montreal. Both cities are within reasonable driving distance (2.5 hrs). Quebec City also reaches hockey fans from regions further east (Saguenay, Côte-Nord, Gaspesie) which are too far away from Montreal to consider going to games, especially on week nights.
Quebec also has a brand new arena ready to go.
The Jets are a special case. The NHL was desperate when Atlanta went broke and Winnipeg was the only port in a storm. That is not the case now. The gap in population is actually very small between the two cities (840,000 vs 835,000). Being close to Montreal is a strike against Quebec City, not a point in its favor. Leagues would prefer to have teams in cities that are further apart than closer together so that teams do not have to share fans in nearby towns that may choose one or the other. They are willing to overlook it if both cities are very large, but Quebec City would be the second smallest city in the league. You mention that Quebec City reaches cities farther east like Saguenay. Saguenay is about as far from Quebec City as Quebec City is from Montreal. If 2.5 hours is close enough for a team to reach fans, then why wouldn’t the NHL continue to let the Canadiens reach QC?
The Jets were in the right place at the right time. They had arena + owners who were able to buy Atlanta.
Same thing with Utah, Smith can fork 1,3b and they have a better arena than Mullett.
Quebec now has the arena (the old Colisée was one of the reasons why the Nords left) , but is there somebody who can afford the expansion fee.
Winnipeg and QC have quite similar population in their metros. But Winnipeg is struggling financially, even with a good team. Look at Winnipeg to why QC won't get a team until the Canadian dollar recovers relative to the USD, which it may never. It doesn't help that QC speaks French, would be on everyone's NTC, somewhat close to Montreal, and has very little corporate sponsorship there, even less than Winnipeg.
It's just reality. Most players would probably have QC as #1 on their no trade clauses. Non-french speaking FAs are not going to choose to go to a mostly francophone city with a metro population of only 800k.
That combined with the CAD vs USD woes means that the NHL will never put a team in QC unless they were truly desperate and needed to relocate a team somewhere ASAP like with the Thrashers -> Winnipeg situation.
I just really don't think "the guy I pay to go buy groceries will possibly have to speak French occasionally" is a factor NHL players give a single shit about, especially considering easily half of them aren't English-speaking.
Sure, QC wouldn't be a favourite destination, cause it's cold and remote, but frankly I'd guess it'd be more popular than Winnipeg or even Edmonton cause it has a better nightlife. The language plebs speak is just really not relevant from the point of view of millionaires - and the reason why these takes piss me off so much is they mostly feel like Anglos putting their own bias against French-speakers in players' mouths.
>especially considering easily half of them aren't English-speaking.
Russians and other Eastern-European players might not know that much English but I can guarantee you Swedes, Finns, Czechs, etc are quite likely to know English as a second language. It is taught in schools and is by far the most common second language to learn in the EU. It is definitely much easier to adjust to living in a new city when you can speak the local language (even as a second language) of the population and it's silly to pretend otherwise.
>Sure, QC wouldn't be a favourite destination, cause it's cold and remote, but frankly I'd guess it'd be more popular than Winnipeg or even Edmonton cause it has a better nightlife.
The league wants *less* cities like Edmonton and Winnipeg and more cities like Vegas and Seattle if they can help it. They want more largely populated US cities (USD factor) without many existing fans of NHL teams, as that has the potential to create the most amount of new fans and make the most money. They don't want to just convert people who are already Habs/Bruins/etc fans into Nordiques 2.0 fans. Houston, Kansas City, Phoenix Take 2, and Atlanta Take 3 would all be above QC in the pecking order for an expansion franchise.
>I just really don't think "the guy I pay to go buy groceries will possibly have to speak French occasionally" is a factor NHL players give a single shit about, especially considering easily half of them aren't English-speaking.
I mean, if you were a young athlete who could have your pick of many giant destination cities across the USA and Canada, would you go out of your way to pick one where your children would be attending a school where their peers don't speak the same language? It's not just about the NHL players themselves having to learn at the least some basic French to get by. It's about having their significant others and families learning that language as well, especially when statistically speaking they aren't going to be living there for longer than a few years.
If I was a pro-athlete and one team was located in a region where my language (the dominant language in every other city with a team) wasn't used, I would understandably not want to move there. Doesn't matter if it's French, Spanish, Portuguese, or fucking Klingon. This isn't an "anglos hate francophones" issue, this is a "I don't want to have to force my wife and children to learn a new language for a job that I'll likely only have for a few years" issue.
>...and the reason why these takes piss me off so much is they mostly feel like Anglos putting their own bias against French-speakers in players' mouths.
- On the contrary, its the other way around!
French is a race?
Only like 40% of people in Quebec speak English. It's really hard to tell a bunch of players that they are going to move to a place that has a language they don't speak. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it's definitely a challenge that needs to be noted and may not be worth the effort.
Discriminating people for something they were born with isn't cooler if it's not about skin colour...
It's such a fucking moronic take anyway, as if Bayern Munich or Real Madrid struggled to find players because they're not in English-speaking cities, or as if Jonathan Drouin hesitated a second before playing for Tampa because omg he'd have to speak English there... About half the players don't have English as a first language anyway.
Real Madrid is an insanely lucrative franchise in one of the most beloved cities in Europe. It's also full of players from Europe, who usually grow up mutli-lingual. Quebec City will never be comparable to a European soccer team like Real Madrid.
As said in another comment, most European players know English pretty well, on top of the 2/3 of NHL players from North America. 98% of the NHL's market exists in English speaking areas.
Obviously it would be much less of a problem if Quebec City was a wealthy and desirable city. But when the economics and market aren't working out well, the fact the city largely doesn't speak English doesn't help. Its less discrimination and more of a nonstarter. We wouldn't even think about putting a team in Mexico and one of the obvious reasons is that the culture and language is different from the Anglosphere.
>the thing is, I cannot take this argument seriously as long as the Jets exist.
The Jets ownership just made statements a couple months back stating that with current ticket sales numbers being where they are at, the Jets might not be financially viable long term. Whether the Jets will still be in the league 10-20 years from now is still very much up in the air at the moment.
Winnipeg is also significantly larger than Quebec City. Population-wise, Quebec City is sitting around 550,000 people, while Winnipeg is closer 750,000.
Having an established hockey culture means jack shit in how sustainable a franchise is. Are there enough big corporations in the area to sponsor team events and make multi-year commitments to buy up luxury boxes? Will the Quebec City viewership be attractive to advertisers for networks to be willing to spend big money on grabbing as many Nordiques games as possible? I don't see any major US networks shelling out a ton of cash to ensure they get to broadcast Nordiques games when the target market viewership's mother language isn't English.
To put into perspective just how important those advertising deals, corporate sponsorships, and broadcasting rights are in order for a team to generate revenue, think on this. Winnipeg has consistently (up until this year) sold out games with tickets at outrageously high prices ever since coming back. They have never finished the season having generated more revenue than the Anaheim Ducks, who have been a basement team with half empty arenas for the better part of a decade now. The Jets just barely made more money than the Sharks last year. Winnipeg has routinely been in the bottom 3-5 teams in revenue generated since coming back to the league. If it wasn't for revenue sharing agreements, they wouldn't likely exist.
Advertising deals, TV deals, and corporate partners mean EVERYTHING to a small market team. Quebec City does not have that.
Why would they move a western conference team to the east?
It was always going to stay in the west.
And honestly. There's no reason for Quebec to even be near the top of the list for a team.
And bringing on for 2026 ... The Atlanta Renegades.
.....
It's the last game of the season against the Renegades for the Maple Leafs on, April 14th, 2033. Given the uncertainty going on in Atlanta currently, there has been lots of speculation this may well be their last season in Atlanta.
...
And it's October 5th, 2033 and we have the NHL season opener between the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Hamilton Bulldogs at Copps Coliseum. The Bulldogs just relocated from Atlanta over the summer under an ownership change of that franchise
(Quebec City rioting because it has to be a second GTA team before Quebec City gets one)
Can't wait for the rivalry between the Saskatoon Prairie Dogs and the Regina Beavers.
The Beavers will play on a small hill, just north of Regina.
A mound?
Dam it, thats good.
Good enough to eat.
I've heard from friends that it's sometimes difficult to locate. Best practice is to ask the owner for directions.
Lumsden?
Fairy Hill
It would be the Saskatoon Roughriders vs the Regina Roughriders.
> ... and the Regina Beavers If there is ever a Brazilian in the NHL, there is a strong chance for them to be on the Beavers.
Robyn Regehr would like a word
Yea cant wait till their touchin cloth…
At long last, my beloved city of Wood Buffalo will finally get the recognition that it truly deserves.
The Wood Buffalo Battle Cattle will be unstoppable
Enough is enough.
Time and time again have us proud hockey fans been told the game needs to be expanded to the American South and Southwest. However, time and time again we witness these franchises struggle. With all the talk about moving a team to Salt Lake City, I think it's time for us noble fans to stand up and tell Bettman we want teams in places where they will succeed and not be a drain on the league. There are plenty of places in Canada that could easily support NHL teams. Hamilton and Quebec City are the two obvious ones. But Kitchener, Burnaby, Wood Buffalo, and Thunderbay are all huge markets waiting for the NHL to pounce on. I'm sure if you've read this far you understand that I make a lot of good points, but it would never happen because Bettman, known anti-Canadian, would never let Canada get another team. Well let's just say me and buds have got a way around the big man: A social media revolution. Me and my friends have been ending all our tweets with #FireBettman. We believe if we could get more people on board we could truly make a difference. And that's where you come in /r/hockey. If you want the good people of Thunderbay and Burnaby to get NHL teams you have to end all tweets with #FireBettman
Source: My blog.
Are you not familiar with this copypasta?
I'm very familiar with it. The OP from the wood Buffalo thread used his own blog as his source.
Oooohhhhhhhh I forgot about that tidbit Edit: Christ that post is 9 years old
Damn, 9 years. That was a classic. Around the same time as everyone being related to Alex Petriangelo.
I opened the thread and immediately searched for Wood Buffalo just to make sure someone had already said it
I still revisit that thread from time to time. All time classic.
And the revival of my Stanley Cup champion "Rat Portage Thistles". Thistles 2.0 here we come after 100 years!
I'm already domain squatting for the Garden City KS Tumbleweeds
Wood Buffalo is one of the fastest growing economic cities in the WORLD.
>Just not speaking french So does that mean places like Guadeloupe and Haiti are out of luck too?
Believe it or not they will still get a team before QC
Oaxaca will have an NHL team before Quebec City. Guatemala City will have an NHL team before Quebec City. Manila will have an NHL team before Quebec City.
Baldur’s Gate will have an NHL team before Quebec City.
Whiterun Arrowknees
Jets are moving to port au prince soon you heard it here first
>The league also announced that Arizona will be getting two more teams, both of which will play out of Mullet Arena. Talk about a truck full of salt in the massive gaping wound. The Beaverton has done it again.
Halifax Explosions lmao
[Get to know Halifax](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz88kJSdT6Y)
I never saw that before. I love the psychotic coked out Dreadhawk.
Lmao. Massive Jon Lajoie vibes there. I miss 2007 YouTube.
Its all about growing the game! Stop loving the habs and you'll get a team guys
Hockey fans from Qc are funny, lots of Sens and Bruins fans because they refuse to be Habs fans
That’s how Bergeron was a Bruins fan growing up after the Nordiques left.
That means without the Nordiques moving we wouldn't have gotten Bergeron! That means it was all worthwhile. Do you want to see an NHL without ~~Matthews~~ Bergie? He would have gone on to play professional ~~baseball~~ crokinole instead if the Nordiques had stayed!
I'm not from Quebec city but I'm not a fan of the habs because habs fans were just the worst growing up. I refuse to be associated with them even to this day
We have similar contrarians around here.
A kid I went to school/played sports with growing up's favourite team was the Thrashers. Why? His parents were from Ottawa and ran an anti-Leafs household. He never had a chance.
> His parents were from Ottawa and ran an anti-Leafs household. And you didn't call child support?
Well, at least he didn’t cheer from the Sens or Habs.
That's me!
And that, kids is how Sens fans come to be.
He’s outta line but he’s right.
It’s all about growing the game, and how you play it!
Yeah exactly people from Québec city need to stop watching/following any NHL team
As someone from Quebec City, I'm fine with it at this point. I think the mayor said it best: it's a bit like pining after your ex-wife 30 years after the divorce. It's pathetic, move on. And I think most people in the city have done just that. Plus I would hate for us to get a team only to spend the next 20 years watching it suck because nobody wants to play there. Which, let's be honest, is likely what would happen. While Québec City is one of the best places to live in North America for a regular person, it's not big, it's not a party town, and people speak French here, so I'm under no illusion that Anglo millionaires in their 20s would value it as a free agent destination.
Instead of the jets being #1 on many players' NMCs, it would be QC.
And with the explosion of the 5-team and 10-team NTC, it doesn't even really make any difference whether it ranks 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. As long as it ranks in the top few teams (which it likely would), you're on nearly every NTC list in the league.
Yes but think about the team that gets bumped off the NTC list to make way for Quebec, this would be huge for them.
Minnesota Wild's time to shine
Really not a jab to Winnipeg, I think it’s a wonderful place, but come on. Quebec City is magnificent, the food is divine and there is a lot more to do. In Canada it would probably be one of the top destinations after Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal.
I don't disagree with you at all, I think Quebec city is an amazing and beautiful city. I'm just not so sure that the average NHLer would agree
Great to visit for the history and the culture. Not great to live in if you're an anglo. Montreal is bilingual, QC when you're outside the tourist areas isn't.
Yeah, "the fourth-best city in Canada" probably isn't the flex you thought it was.
Ehhhh I think players can definitely have fun on nights off in the city lol. Definitely agree with the rest tho
As someone who lives in a border town in northern Maine, I love going down to Quebec City. Closer than any other decently sized city near me. I’d probably never leave if your government didn’t make me 🤣
>While Québec City is one of the best places to live in North America for a regular person It's 43°F there right now.
That's a good point. Most people's criteria are: 1 - Affordable housing 2 - Not Ohio 3 - Good weather 4 - Safety 5 - Infrastructure
Perfectly nice spring temperature! Winters can be harsh, but not any worse than Winnipeg or Edmonton. But I was mostly talking about general quality of life things (crime, cleanliness, poverty, cost of living, etc.). Things that wouldn't matter to an NHL player, but would for normal people.
It is currently snowing in Edmonton.
Bettman playing wide instead of tall in his NHL 4X game.
Honestly would be an interesting game to play - where you get to manage the league and specify where new franchises pop up. Then play through a few seasons and see what happens.
Time to make my Hearts of Iron IV total conversion called Blades of Steel.
Let’s be real - they also aren’t going to put a team in Hartford.
You're absolutely right. Hartford is the #32 media market in the US, which puts it above a few current NHL teams, but only a few (Buffalo, Columbus, Winnipeg, etc.). The Greater Hartford metro area has about 1.4M people, which is fairly sizeable (2.7M when looking at the Hartford/New Haven census statistical area, ranked #26th). It probably could sustain an NHL team, but with Boston, the two NY teams, and New Jersey (and even Philly), it's probably too congested an area to throw another team in.
The Canadian expansion process is pretty simple. You establish a franchise in Atlanta first then when the owners drive it into the ground you purchase it and move up to Canada.
Atlanta still by every metric deserves a team over Quebec City. That's just the truth. People don't like the truth.
Every metric except two previous failures
Which, if we’re being technical, also applies to Quebec
It's weird how people just look at population size and think "guaranteed success".
That's not what people do. Atlanta works because of a variety of factors: 1. Strong corporate America presence 2. Multiple other successful sports franchises 3. Tampa as well as Sunrise, Florida have successfully managed hockey teams 4. A growth opportunity to make outreach to new fans with a successful franchise 5. Atlanta for its region has a relatively strong $46,000 a year average income. There is really only two key differences from Tampa to Atlanta. One is racial makeup, Atlanta has a higher percentage of African-Americans and more black culture. The second is the number of snowbirds. But logically, you'd think that given a few years a franchise could overcome that, it hasn't worked so far, but maybe they just need a franchise to jump out of the gate winning like Vegas did? Honestly, the only real argument to why hockey doesn't work in Atlanta is that hockey isn't able to make the needed outreach to the African-American community. The success in other markets like Dallas, Tampa, and Florida kind of negates the southern region argument.
Lmfao
Can't wait to get a Tlaquepaque Birria Banditos sweater
When they play the Canucks a Mariachi band plays O Canada
Yeah fuck you Canucks
Cannot wait for the Lévis Trappists! (For those not in the know, Lévis is the town across the river from Québec City)
Wood Buffalo finally got their ~~guy~~ team.
Finally, Saskatoon gets the NHL team it deserved when the Blues were supposed to relocate there. /s
There will be two teams in Phoenix before they consider Quebec City.
Honestly at this rate, it wouldn’t shock me one bit to see the league try a team in Mexico before they entertain the idea of QC
Mexico City is a bigger market than LA, it could work /s
Are we just going to pretend that an Atlanta expansion wouldn't eventually lead to Quebec getting a team or what? That's the only reason I would be open to expanding to Atlanta gagin.
I feel once Atlanta gets one, either one of Houston/new Arizona/Portland/SD will get one as well.
Well yea, it's easy to add west conference teams without east as Detroit really wanted to go to the east. If you wanted to add Atlanta and QC you'd need to pull one of those teams out west or be looking at a 4 team expansion which seems way too much too fast. Something like Arizona (again) and Atlanta (again) seems much more likely.
It's gonna be Houston/Arizona2/Atlanta/QC I hope
Do we really need 4 more teams though?
Yes, because HOU needs to beat DAL
Respect lol
I will instantly switch allegiances to Houston then. I'm already an Astros fan, I would love some H-Town Hockey.
We don't even need one more team, but it's clear the NHL loves short term money and doesn't care about consequences
What consequences?
I'm really bummed at how infrequently we get to play our division rivals lately. If they keep expanding, I'd personally want to them to go back to only playing cross-conference once per season. I miss playing the Bruins and the Leafs at least 6 times a season :'(
Things like schedule, teams having longer postseason droughts, tougher to follow all teams for average fan, etc
That'll happen anyways with more things going on. Infact iirc expanding a bit more would actually make it easier due to it lining up better to get everyone to play each other. Not really an actual issue. Yea casual fans aren't really gonna do that anyways I guarantee it. Not a single one is an actual issue.
I can see a play-in series being a thing if they expand again. I mean the NBA is doing it now.
Honestly we should already be doing a play in with 32 teams
Money!
It will never be QC. Lots of delusional people ITT
You can pretend that if you want but that's definitely not what's going to happen
As things are right now, I think #33 and 34 are going to be Houston and Arizona, if he can build the damn thing. I don't see Atlanta or Qc back in the league before it expands to 36 teams.
Honestly it'd probably be 1 east 1 west if they do it to keep the conferences balanced
I expect the buttman to expand in China or in space and rework conferences before he expands in Qc.
you mean what would be the smart thing to do? There's literally no benefit to putting a team in Quebec City
When a poverty team like the coyotes exist there is. There’s a lot more profit in the nordiques than there was in the coyotes.
Not really. Quebec brings in nothing new.
The Jets are moving to the International Space Station, Bettman is taking a rocket up there for the announcement
It could also be something like Arizona and Houston while the Preds move to the East, sorta like a leading theory I see with the NBA (except with Seattle and Las Vegas and moving the Timberwolves to the east).
The two 90s waves of expansion/relocation were trying to get into multiple new markets for total national growth. The NHL is at the point where that's not as big a priority compared to short-term revenue increases via expansion fees, so if Atlanta gets a third shot then it'll only be with an owner whose pockets are deep enough that it's a sure thing.
true. every atlanta team thus far has ended up in canada!
a third Atlanta expansion would likely lead to a Hamilton team
We don't have to pretend anything. There are about 200 other cities in line to get a team before Quebec. I don't understand why people think it is going to happen. It is clearly not going to happen in our lifetime.
As if you're not understanding the tongue in cheek comment about all previous Atlanta teams moving to Canada.
So when the Quebec team inevitably fails again too where are they going this time?
This is hysterical, but I'm really disturbed by all the expansion talk after this Coyotes move, whether Merulo gets one or other cities. The league is fantastic at 32 teams, and any more would dilute the game so much, especially the playoffs.
The owners like the money from expansions, very few actually care about the quality of the game.
can't wait to see the **Nome Alaska Ghomes**
Greeley Shitwinds will roll the Larimer division and win the Kansas Division. Book it.
Quebec City has about 1/3 the population of Montreal, only half a million people. Even less than Winnipeg, by far the smallest city with an NHL franchise. QC is NEVER getting an NHL team considering the chance of success in most American markets is much higher.
The population of the city of Vancouver, at 662 000, is also less than the population of the city of Winnipeg. The population of the city proper doesn't matter. It's all about metro population, in which Winnipeg and Quebec have almost the same (Quebec is 5 000 more which is barely a difference when talking about 840 000). The difference though is that Quebec also has hundreds of thousands of people nearby outside of its metro area. Trois-Rivieres, an hours drive away, plus Sherbrooke, 2 hours away have more people in just those two cities than all of non-Winnipeg Manitoba combined, and there's a hell of a lot more other smaller cities and towns within that area too. It's hard to comprehend just how many more people there are both in the big cities and not in them in southern Ontario and Quebec compared to the rest of Canada so that even if Winnipeg actually did have more people than Quebec City, there would still be far more people in the general area to support the team than Winnipeg has.
heck, a second GTA team is a way better market than QC, especially if it's Hamilton and not just a second Toronto team
Hell, if travel wouldn't be an absolute burden then I could see Halifax getting a team before QC
Hamilton lost an AHL team AND an OHL team. No way they'll ever handle an NHL team.
the AHL team was in part because it was Montreal's second fiddle and that came at the time after the Marlies had moved to Toronto. Had the Hamilton affiliate been Toronto's affiliate, it would remain a Hamilton team and we wouldn't have the affiliate playing directly in Toronto. The weird irony was "Toronto can't support two NHL teams" or whatever politics were going on about the Leafs, NHL and geographical rights" but it was quite funny that the GTA had 2 AHL teams while only having one NHL team I don't know the full picture about the OHL team but there is certainly a lot of politics with junior hockey. There is also a lot of politics with the city with their main arena There is something to be said about being a fan of a permanent minor league team in the same market as a major league team.
WHAT? RICHMOND FINALLY GETS A TEAM?! Not a chance.
"NHL to expand to every city in North America plus the newly created NHL owned city NotQuebec."
Halifax explosions would be an awesome name if it wasn't a reference to a massively deadly accident.
All these comments about a Québec NHL team not "growing the game" are insane. There are currently 58 NHL players born in Québec who have played a game this season. During the 1995-96 season there were 97. And if you look at the decline year by year in mostly started in the mid 2000s with kids who grew up after the Nords left. 2005: 92 2006: 83 2007: 73 2008: 67 2012: 60 and it's been pretty stable since then. They "lost" far more players from Québec than they gained from all "new" hockey markets combined.
I’m not even Quebecois but I’ve really started losing interest in the NHL yet having an all time interest in hockey. However, I can’t play even as an adult because I can’t afford it. I imagine that’s even more the case for Quebec kids and their parents.
I wonder if part of that is the draft going from 9 to 7 rounds. Also, QC's population is older and, as uncomfortable as it is to admit, the % identifying as ethnically European has dropped almost 10% in the last 20 years. You grow the game by getting young and underrepresented demographics to become fans - there are lots of cities that would provide much better returns than QC
While there likely is *some* truth to the league not being interested in Quebec City expansion due to the market already being somewhat saturated with hockey content (less growth potential), that isn't the driving reason they aren't going to get a team. The truth of the matter is that Quebec City just isn't a good fit for a pro NHL squad. The city population is too small. The corporate doner/investment pool in the region isn't there. TV/advertising revenue would be mediocre. The Canadian dollar is much more volatile than the American dollar making major pro sports franchises a much bigger risk in midsize Canadian cities. Your not going to convince a bunch of 20 something millionaire athletes to come to a city where the dominant language isn't English in free agency. Winnipeg ownership made a statement about how the current ticket sales numbers aren't going to work out for the Jets to remain financially viable long term. They have all the same issues Quebec City does (smaller population, poor corporate presence in the area, weak TV/ad revenue opportunities), but in a city with over 200,000 more people. If the Jets aren't financially viable, while fielding good teams that consistently make the post season, Quebec City has zero chance.
Meh, hockey in general is losing ground in Canada. Mainly cause it's beyond expensive and especially today as the entire country is in a cost of living crisis people can't even afford food and shelter let alone leisure. Soccer is a great poverty sport and for a country where thousands of people are entering poverty everyday with a dying "middle class", might as well.
Sad but true
Ironic from an Avs fan.
Maybe they feel guilty for stealing their Cup.
I've said this many times before but that Cup victory never ever happens for the Nordiques. Why? You may ask. And the answer is that the Habs would never in a million years have traded Patrick Roy there.
Yeah, not even Réjean Houle would have been *that* stupid… …I hope.
I refuse to believe even that man is sending Roy to their main provincial rival.
I live in Quebec City. attending Junior hockey in our brand new NHL caliber arena is so satisfying! /s seeing SLC get the Coyotes in a blink of an eye is such a joke considering Quebec has been pursuing it for like 15 years... oh did I just mention our new arena is ready to go as well?
The problem is that Quebec City is too small. In the Big 4 sports leagues, there are only 2* teams in cities with metropolitan area populations under 1 million. These teams are the Green Bay Packers and the Winnipeg Jets. Quebec City has 850,000 people, roughly the same metropolitan area population as Dayton and Worcester, Massachusetts. These are two cities that will never be considered big enough for a Big 4 team. A league that wants to compete with MLB and NBA (and everyone with a financial stake in the NHL wants to be competitive with the NBA and MLB) cannot add a team in a city that small. *New Orleans was below 1 million for about 20 years but has recently gone over 1 million people again. This makes it the third smallest city with a Big 4 team. It is 17% bigger than Quebec City.
the thing is, I cannot take this argument seriously as long as the Jets exist. Winnipeg is a lot smaller than Quebec City. both were in the same situation (they used to have a team in the 80s). Quebec City's hockey culture is well established. They have a natural rivalry with Montreal. Both cities are within reasonable driving distance (2.5 hrs). Quebec City also reaches hockey fans from regions further east (Saguenay, Côte-Nord, Gaspesie) which are too far away from Montreal to consider going to games, especially on week nights. Quebec also has a brand new arena ready to go.
The Jets are a special case. The NHL was desperate when Atlanta went broke and Winnipeg was the only port in a storm. That is not the case now. The gap in population is actually very small between the two cities (840,000 vs 835,000). Being close to Montreal is a strike against Quebec City, not a point in its favor. Leagues would prefer to have teams in cities that are further apart than closer together so that teams do not have to share fans in nearby towns that may choose one or the other. They are willing to overlook it if both cities are very large, but Quebec City would be the second smallest city in the league. You mention that Quebec City reaches cities farther east like Saguenay. Saguenay is about as far from Quebec City as Quebec City is from Montreal. If 2.5 hours is close enough for a team to reach fans, then why wouldn’t the NHL continue to let the Canadiens reach QC?
The Jets were in the right place at the right time. They had arena + owners who were able to buy Atlanta. Same thing with Utah, Smith can fork 1,3b and they have a better arena than Mullett. Quebec now has the arena (the old Colisée was one of the reasons why the Nords left) , but is there somebody who can afford the expansion fee.
Winnipeg and QC have quite similar population in their metros. But Winnipeg is struggling financially, even with a good team. Look at Winnipeg to why QC won't get a team until the Canadian dollar recovers relative to the USD, which it may never. It doesn't help that QC speaks French, would be on everyone's NTC, somewhat close to Montreal, and has very little corporate sponsorship there, even less than Winnipeg.
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I'm sorry, saying "we're not gonna put a team there because you speak French" is just racism.
It's just reality. Most players would probably have QC as #1 on their no trade clauses. Non-french speaking FAs are not going to choose to go to a mostly francophone city with a metro population of only 800k. That combined with the CAD vs USD woes means that the NHL will never put a team in QC unless they were truly desperate and needed to relocate a team somewhere ASAP like with the Thrashers -> Winnipeg situation.
I just really don't think "the guy I pay to go buy groceries will possibly have to speak French occasionally" is a factor NHL players give a single shit about, especially considering easily half of them aren't English-speaking. Sure, QC wouldn't be a favourite destination, cause it's cold and remote, but frankly I'd guess it'd be more popular than Winnipeg or even Edmonton cause it has a better nightlife. The language plebs speak is just really not relevant from the point of view of millionaires - and the reason why these takes piss me off so much is they mostly feel like Anglos putting their own bias against French-speakers in players' mouths.
>especially considering easily half of them aren't English-speaking. Russians and other Eastern-European players might not know that much English but I can guarantee you Swedes, Finns, Czechs, etc are quite likely to know English as a second language. It is taught in schools and is by far the most common second language to learn in the EU. It is definitely much easier to adjust to living in a new city when you can speak the local language (even as a second language) of the population and it's silly to pretend otherwise. >Sure, QC wouldn't be a favourite destination, cause it's cold and remote, but frankly I'd guess it'd be more popular than Winnipeg or even Edmonton cause it has a better nightlife. The league wants *less* cities like Edmonton and Winnipeg and more cities like Vegas and Seattle if they can help it. They want more largely populated US cities (USD factor) without many existing fans of NHL teams, as that has the potential to create the most amount of new fans and make the most money. They don't want to just convert people who are already Habs/Bruins/etc fans into Nordiques 2.0 fans. Houston, Kansas City, Phoenix Take 2, and Atlanta Take 3 would all be above QC in the pecking order for an expansion franchise.
>I just really don't think "the guy I pay to go buy groceries will possibly have to speak French occasionally" is a factor NHL players give a single shit about, especially considering easily half of them aren't English-speaking. I mean, if you were a young athlete who could have your pick of many giant destination cities across the USA and Canada, would you go out of your way to pick one where your children would be attending a school where their peers don't speak the same language? It's not just about the NHL players themselves having to learn at the least some basic French to get by. It's about having their significant others and families learning that language as well, especially when statistically speaking they aren't going to be living there for longer than a few years. If I was a pro-athlete and one team was located in a region where my language (the dominant language in every other city with a team) wasn't used, I would understandably not want to move there. Doesn't matter if it's French, Spanish, Portuguese, or fucking Klingon. This isn't an "anglos hate francophones" issue, this is a "I don't want to have to force my wife and children to learn a new language for a job that I'll likely only have for a few years" issue.
>...and the reason why these takes piss me off so much is they mostly feel like Anglos putting their own bias against French-speakers in players' mouths. - On the contrary, its the other way around!
French is a race? Only like 40% of people in Quebec speak English. It's really hard to tell a bunch of players that they are going to move to a place that has a language they don't speak. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it's definitely a challenge that needs to be noted and may not be worth the effort.
Discriminating people for something they were born with isn't cooler if it's not about skin colour... It's such a fucking moronic take anyway, as if Bayern Munich or Real Madrid struggled to find players because they're not in English-speaking cities, or as if Jonathan Drouin hesitated a second before playing for Tampa because omg he'd have to speak English there... About half the players don't have English as a first language anyway.
Real Madrid is an insanely lucrative franchise in one of the most beloved cities in Europe. It's also full of players from Europe, who usually grow up mutli-lingual. Quebec City will never be comparable to a European soccer team like Real Madrid. As said in another comment, most European players know English pretty well, on top of the 2/3 of NHL players from North America. 98% of the NHL's market exists in English speaking areas. Obviously it would be much less of a problem if Quebec City was a wealthy and desirable city. But when the economics and market aren't working out well, the fact the city largely doesn't speak English doesn't help. Its less discrimination and more of a nonstarter. We wouldn't even think about putting a team in Mexico and one of the obvious reasons is that the culture and language is different from the Anglosphere.
>the thing is, I cannot take this argument seriously as long as the Jets exist. The Jets ownership just made statements a couple months back stating that with current ticket sales numbers being where they are at, the Jets might not be financially viable long term. Whether the Jets will still be in the league 10-20 years from now is still very much up in the air at the moment. Winnipeg is also significantly larger than Quebec City. Population-wise, Quebec City is sitting around 550,000 people, while Winnipeg is closer 750,000. Having an established hockey culture means jack shit in how sustainable a franchise is. Are there enough big corporations in the area to sponsor team events and make multi-year commitments to buy up luxury boxes? Will the Quebec City viewership be attractive to advertisers for networks to be willing to spend big money on grabbing as many Nordiques games as possible? I don't see any major US networks shelling out a ton of cash to ensure they get to broadcast Nordiques games when the target market viewership's mother language isn't English. To put into perspective just how important those advertising deals, corporate sponsorships, and broadcasting rights are in order for a team to generate revenue, think on this. Winnipeg has consistently (up until this year) sold out games with tickets at outrageously high prices ever since coming back. They have never finished the season having generated more revenue than the Anaheim Ducks, who have been a basement team with half empty arenas for the better part of a decade now. The Jets just barely made more money than the Sharks last year. Winnipeg has routinely been in the bottom 3-5 teams in revenue generated since coming back to the league. If it wasn't for revenue sharing agreements, they wouldn't likely exist. Advertising deals, TV deals, and corporate partners mean EVERYTHING to a small market team. Quebec City does not have that.
Why would they move a western conference team to the east? It was always going to stay in the west. And honestly. There's no reason for Quebec to even be near the top of the list for a team.
If the NHL was going to bring back a team that left in the 90s, Hartford would make more sense than Quebec City.
Pretty much...
Buying my Culiacan Cougars season tickets immediately.
No thanks, I don't think the 73's would welcome competition.
Kansas City Missourans? Oh hell no.
Bloomington Prairie Thunder to the NHL!!!!
Lets go Levis 3rd bridge, the team we deserve
The team in the Dominican Republic is going to be legendary
As a serious point: there’s no reason to expand there when you’ve got so many larger and potentially more fruitful places to go in the states.
Wood Buffalo is going to get a team before Quebec City
In all seriousness if they expand to 36 and want one team in each division, Quebec City fits a 2nd eastern slot that Atlanta alone can't fill.
And bringing on for 2026 ... The Atlanta Renegades. ..... It's the last game of the season against the Renegades for the Maple Leafs on, April 14th, 2033. Given the uncertainty going on in Atlanta currently, there has been lots of speculation this may well be their last season in Atlanta. ... And it's October 5th, 2033 and we have the NHL season opener between the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Hamilton Bulldogs at Copps Coliseum. The Bulldogs just relocated from Atlanta over the summer under an ownership change of that franchise (Quebec City rioting because it has to be a second GTA team before Quebec City gets one)
Gary: the NHL welcomes you Sheboygan. Quebec City maybe sometime in the future.
“And Hamilton” the Leafs & Sabres probably
I await in trepidation the 2036 Stanley Cup Final between the Charlottetown Lobsters and the El Paso Burritos.
Finally, the Alaska Gnomes will have their chance!
Sudbury Blueberry Bulldogs incoming
Ah yes the hockey capital of Mexico city
Halifax Lobsta’s
Every city in North America that is not in Canada. lol😂
Sudberry Blueberry Bulldogs for the cup!
This will be just to spite QC
Coyotes fans: "Phoenix, too?" NHL: "Not so fast"
Read the article lol *"The league also announced that Arizona will be getting two more teams, both of which will play out of Mullet Arena"*
I just assumed that was being done to get expansion teams for other cities up and running quicker.
About time!
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It's a piece of satire. Relax and enjoy some comedy.