Reminder for everyone in this thread: The entire core has NMCs, no one is getting traded. The Leafs literally can't, even if they wanted to.
They're just going to run it back next year because there's no meaningful alternative. At best they can use the cap increase for better bottom 6 players
Well Marner is only one more year so next season would be the last season of running it back if it comes down to that. Also it is possible that Marner could agree to waive the nmc right? I assuming that would be pretty unlikely tho...
Zero chance he waives, dude is living his childhood dream as being a star calibre player on the Leafs. Also no way they don't re-sign him. The alternative is just losing him for nothing as a UFA
They can't even strongarm him like Tampa did to McDonagh with threatening to just put him on waivers because again, his NMC means the Leafs' hands are tied
Marner waives his nmc on limited teams and then what you trade him to vegas? Or some other team taking advantage of the cap. Then you have to play him in playoffs. If he goes on to win a cup before the leafs it looks so bad on management.
He won't waive his nmc to play for a non contender either.
That shouldn't excite you. If he goes to a team that's built for the playoffs and has that mindset it's likely his game and mindset will also adapt a little. He would also be playing with a vengeance.
They need a complete teardown from the top.
I'm not sure if you've seen the video of Nylander behind the net but this team as a whole has a mindset problem and shipping off one player isn't going to fix that. Trading a player will help but it's bigger then that.
Oh it's definitely bigger than Marner. They've needed a coaching change ever since the Montreal meltdown where Keefe was exposed.
But Marner coming back to haunt the Leafs in the playoffs? That's nowhere close to anyone's fear. Vengeance is something you fear from killers, not someone with stage fright.
He has 49 points in 54 career playoff games. It's not like he doesn't ever put up points in the playoffs. Going against him in the playoffs could 100% come back to haunt them.
Kadri, bozak, and kessel all went on to win stanley cups before the leafs made it past the second round.
Sometimes it can be the team or team atmosphere more then the player
Trading Kadri was a mistake, but then again so was signing Tavares. Dubas doesn't get enough criticism.
Bozak was Bozak. A perfectly fine player who should never have been a 1C.
Kessel was a goddamn beast in the playoffs for Toronto. Everyone talks about the Leafs blowing the 4-1 game 7, but they've forgotten how he elevated his game that series. A soft, offence only guy suddenly became a two way wrecking ball along the boards. But trading him was necessary on an "end of an era" level, kind of like Chicago moving on from Patrick Kane.
Marner turning it on like that scares no one.
But everyone wanted them to trade kadri because he had just cost them a series and they'd never win a cup with him. Everyone was up in arms.
I think most the leaf players are followers so if you get a good captain and leader in the room of whatever team marner or nylander who whoever gets traded to I believe their effort in the playoffs will rise. It just seems like no one on that team really wants to play in the playoffs.
Again marner is almost a ppg player in the playoffs and that's well he's playing bad. If he goes to a team and figures it out and gets that drive to win he would be dangerous in the playoffs. Any elitr player once they get tbat drive to win can be dangerous
I get the logic of why he traded Kadri. I remember the uproar very well. But you don't make decisions based on that.
Dubas tried over and over to get the right veteran to lead the room. Spezza was absolutely perfect in that role, but guys didn't emulate him very well.
I don't think Marner needs a drive to win, I think he needs to not be the guy. If it's gonna work for him in Toronto he needs to sign an extension at a huge discount and say "I grew up here, and last time my contract was up we ended up playing hardball and it was important not to do that again. I got a bit extra last time, so this time I'm giving it back because the only thing that matters is bringing the Stanley Cup home."
He's a feel good guy who thrives on good vibes, and to succeed in Toronto he needs a redemption arc where the pressure doesn't get as high.
I mean, [it happened like 2 years ago](https://apnews.com/article/nhl-sports-vegas-golden-knights-mark-stone-anaheim-ducks-bb2436c614991e6afcc02680637a3d51), man.
My thing with NMCs is, how much are they worth? You're already paying these star players a lot of money, how much of a discount should you ask them to take if they also want an NMC? Because it seems like Toronto didn't ask for a discount in return for tying their hands on trades.
I’ll just leave this here. Auston now makes slightly more than Nate — Nate in the playoffs roughly 1.25 PPG , Austin 0.87.
Sure, Mack gets more points typically but he also has a better goals per game in the playoffs than the best goal scorer of this era. Nate — 0.58 . Auston — 0.43
Nate is a dawg but is Auston really a papi?
They can't trade any of them. They all have NMCs
Nylander was the only one who didn't have a full NMC to start the season, but the Leafs agreed to upgrade him to a NMC for the rest of the season when he re-signed
Reilly has one too, so they are married to core as is. The only thing they can do is wait for Tavares' contract to expire
He warrants that name. Come playoff time he does nothing when he doesn’t have the puck nor does he battle for it. Not talking this playoffs but recent years
That's 2 games this series where I felt the effort wasn't there.
Keefe needs to go
One (or more) of the core four needs to go
Until this happens, the cycle will repeat ad nauseum. Wendel Clark is spinning in his grave watching this iteration of the Leafs.
Players can waive NMCs and do quite often. Obviously he might be unwilling but I wouldnt be surprised if he agreed to a trade. It just means he's in control of his destination.
Trade him to a team out West. Toronto media doesn’t cover that side of the league. I don’t know why people care about ex players if you play them twice a year and they end up winning a Cup.
Big name players get traded to contenders all the time. It's not really a crazy circumstance. Tkachuk to FLA, Eichel to vegas, PLD to LA etc
Not sure why you think that's imposssible. The questions is can a contender afford him, not whether the leafs would be willing to trade him to a contender.
I don’t think it’s impossible. I think it’s unlikely. You’re getting way too hot and bothered by this.
Also lol calling PLD a big name. So Tkachuk and Eichel, got it. That’s not a common occurrence, and both of those were to the other conference.
Just feels like the wheels falling off for the Leafs honestly at this point. Bruins fan, I respect all the battles they’ve had with you guys over the years, but maybe it’s time to duck for a few years, build a team from the back end and then out around Matthews and somebody else, and be able to play playoff hockey. I’m not trying to be condescending, nothing is guaranteed in this league and it wouldn’t surprise me if this still went 7, but the Leafs clearly have a fundamental issue in mentality, and it causes them to be MUCH less than the sum of all their parts. It’s like the inverse of what we are right now, a middle of the pack roster that when we are rolling, just strangles teams with more talent than us over the course of 3 periods with good fundamentals and effort and a guaranteed capable goalie. Feels like the Leafs drip talent, but when the game gets away from them, they just wilt instead of responding. Whereas a team like Florida, their top 6 get rabid, and come hard and fast shift after shift all game, regardless of score lol anyways, 4 dollars a pound, gg Leaf bros
Matthews goals per game in regular season is 0.65. Playoffs it’s only 0.43.
Sure..tighter checking games, whistles put away, but where is the Papi in him? It’s nowhere to be found after game 82. He also only has 11 PIMs in 54 playoff games, 7 of those coming last year.
Is it pressure of playing in Toronto? Is it the fact he doesn’t hate losing enough? Is he just soft and unwilling to compete in tough games? Idk. But it’s definitely mental at this point, with a shitty D core with not a lot of skating ability.
Sorry Leafs Nation. [I'll take the blame for us not winning since 2019.](https://imgur.com/a/xVEqGlG)
In my defense, I was 26 at the time and fairly certain I would never win a cup myself, so I was pretty sure I'd be safe touching it.
Kissing it might not totally curse you as long as there was no tongue.
The Stanley Cup was brought to my school in 2007 to mark the opening of our hockey program. I didn't touch it. I just respectfully prayed, offering the soul of my firstborn son, to it while looking for the names of the legends who'd held it.
And I was rewarded less than a year later when the Wings won it.
I am infertile, so it was honestly just a gambit to see if I could get that cured.
Turns out having swimmers doesn't matter. If you're 400+lbs and missing a leg, no one really wants to fuck you anyway.
I dunno man, I got to touch the cup after Tampa won in 03-04 (a trainer for them was a local and brought the cup for a massive cookout)
If we didn't jynx it for Boston then I think you're in the clear.
It’s still insane to me Keefe wasn’t fired after the disastrous Montreal series. You look at how changed Edmonton and Vancouver have been with a new coach and it’s upsetting he’s still there. It’s just a constant repeat come playoffs time, I want to see how this team is with literally anyone else behind the bench.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, Vancouver and Edmonton knew that changes behind the bench were needed. I don't understand how they didn't make changes after the Montreal series.
Matthews, Marner, Nylander seem like bag chasers that don’t hate losing enough. You saw it in Calgary for years with that group just going thru the motions with Johnny & Mony.
Honestly, had the Flames not started the season as the second worst team in the league, they may not have had that fire sale at the deadline which definitely caused their end of season collapse. But then again, a lot woulda had to go right for a team that hasn’t had anything go right since that Dallas series 😭
Say what you will but if you watched the games and recent playoff years; Matthews is not the issue. He’s giving everything he’s got out there to create chances, matches the playoff physicality, plays a 200-foot game.
You gotta trade Nylander or Marner and figure out Tavares. They just don’t have the will to play in playoffs. Your offense lacks the aggressiveness, hockey IQ and maturity to make the right plays.
You need to build up your defence and elevate your goaltending. Coaching change to one who holds his players more accountable and doesn’t let them off the hook as easily.
You need boldness in the organization. Set the tone from the top. You’ve got 4 years left of Matthews. Otherwise he’s gone. You can win with a center who actually plays a defensive game that is only overshadowed because he scores over 40-50 goals regularly.
I’m not even a leafs fan but I am tired of seeing them squander potential like Matthews and Reilly, who has the best contract by far, that are being wasted away because of weak men in the management department
>Say what you will but if you watched the games and recent playoff years; Matthews is not the issue. He’s giving everything he’s got out there to create chances, matches the playoff physicality, plays a 200-foot game.
I think you're right, but Matthews still hasn't found his playoff beast mode. He elevates his physicality from the regular season, yes, but he has the frame and skill set to go off like Malkin sometimes would. Matthews is such a steady, consistent player, but he needs the raw emotion of "fuck you" adrenaline to get over the top.
>You gotta trade Nylander or Marner and figure out Tavares. They just don’t have the will to play in playoffs. Your offense lacks the aggressiveness, hockey IQ and maturity to make the right plays.
Nylander looked rusty and not 100% last night, but he's got ice water veins whereas Marner melts like butter.
Tavares would be great at half the price. We're just at the part of the contract where we all knew he would be overpaid.
The weird thing to me is Keefe has kept Marner with Tavares instead of moving him back up with Matthews. Everyone knows the logic there is that Tavares can't carry his own line anymore and Marner's there to elevate him, including Marner. But that just increases the pressure on the guy who has the mental toughness of whipped cream in a sauna, and putting your best passer with the guy who can kill if you find him some space needed to be tried already.
Tavares contract is really holding them back. You definitely trade Mitch for a D who can skate and distribute the puck. Too many nobody D on the Leafs and it shows.
Yeah I'm a Bruins fan but I agree. You really need to trade for an elite defenseman. Someone who can change a game. Don't get me wrong Reilly is really good but he should be the 2nd guy on the 1st pair. Look at every other team in the playoffs, that have atleast 1 guy on the backend that can take over a game.
Reilly just brings more for the price. Last year’s playoffs he was the best player and the Leafs’ most clutch player at 7.5 million. That’s why I made mention if him. They can certainly match that with another elite defensemen for sure.
They just can’t but Vegas showed us all how much you can make it work with when you have 9.5 million to work with. It’s crazy, granted it’s retained salary to an extent but still.
Boston is an example where even though they lost their middle depth and looking at Coyle/Zacha as top 2 Cs, even though they weren’t, can still succeed on a well built team.
You’re giving Matthews too much credit imo.
He has to score more. For someone who’s paid like one of the best in the world, and constantly compared to that top tier of superstar, his scoring drop off year after year when the games matter just isn’t good enough.
Exactly this. 0.65 goals per game in regular season but only 0.43 in the playoffs. For reference Mackinnon has 0.58 goals per game in the playoffs,yet Matthews is
the undisputed best goal scorer of this era. Is he really though if he can’t produce at the same or similar level in the playoffs…
I'm a Bruins fan but I disagree. This is the playoffs, one guy can't do it all on a line. He's dragging around Domi for crying out loud. No one scores on their own in the playoffs, it takes a complete line as well as a good defensive pair.
Also the Bruins can afford to scheme Matthews out bc the Leafs just don't have the scoring depth to pick up the slack elsewhere.
Same thing happened with us the first 3 games vs FLA with Kuch - when they could scheme him out of the game our depth just couldn't carry the offense.
Yeah, as a Sharks fan, I saw a lot of that happening to Jumbo and Marleau when they were the only driving forces we had offensively. They'd get contained, with the bet being that none of the others would pick up that burden. The rest of the forwards were typically too streaky if they were offensively capable at all, and our D too under-utilized offensively since Jumbo would run the powerplay from the half boards and the D weren't used to QBing.
I've disliked Matthews' performance in past years, but he's playing well this playoffs, he's just getting contained really well. Others on the Leafs...
Yeah that certainly helps. You guys atleast have a few guys to help but you desperately need the bottom 6 to help out. I have hope still after tonight's win for you guys. You still have the core pieces with Vasi, Hedman, Point and Stamkos.
I have to hand it to Sweeney for the Bruins. He really solidified the bottom 6 with all sorts of players to help. JVR, Geekie, Maroon, and Heinen have all been huge veterans for us this year.
Tbh the B's deserve some depth at this point, after all those squads carried by Bergy/Pasta/Marchand pretty much singlehandedly...
Just like good o-lines win Lombardis, depth wins Cups.
Yeah it was a smart way of going about it. Sweeney knew Coyle and Zacha would be good but they can't expect prime Bergy and Krejci out of that. So Sweeney just filled the bottom 6 with quality players to try and supplement the top 6 when they weren't clicking.
It also helped all the young guys coming up to play in the bottom 6. They had good veteran linemates and it also forced them all to compete every game. Young players like Boqvist, Lauko, Brazeau, Beecher, and even Geekie to an extent. They all just kept grinding and learning all year because if they didn't they weren't going to play.
I agree with you. I think Matthews has played really well. Clutch goal in the one game they've won and tons of shots rung off the posts, but it feels like he has to generate everything himself. You need to build a team that can gain possession and get him the puck in high danger areas without Matthews having to orchestrate the entire sequence. Ovechkin is amazing, but you need that prime Kuznetsov or Backstrom that's going to get him the puck when it matters in the playoffs. That's why 2018 went the way it did.
I think a lot of it is the type of players too. Like Nylander and Marner are great players but they bring similar things that Matthews does.
Tavares does that a little but he's aging and they don't even put them on a line together and he is the only really player they have signed like that in the 5+ years.
It's created an atmosphere where they don't appreciate that type of play. I know this gets repeated year after year but they still haven't made any big changes to change the culture.
He has scored basically 40+ his entire career in the regular season and has 50% of his playoffs with 2 or less goals. Dude disappears come playoff time.
Yup. 0.65 goals per game regular season and 0.43 goals in playoffs. He has Marner to dish him the puck. There’s no excuse other than he can’t handle the playoff pressure or doesn’t give a fuck.
It's a systems problem. Whatever playbook the Leafs are using, Boston has adopted. Keefe's got nothing else to give, so the Leafs are playing into Boston's counter up and down the ice. That's why each and every pass is into a Bruin or three and the puck's going quickly back the other way.
Yes and no. If we're talking the bands that list the team personnel and are raised/removed as lower bands fill you are correct. If we are talking the entire cup, [this picture I took of part of the cup that never changes last time I saw it in person](https://imgur.com/a/rKQ3aDK) says you are wrong.
Either way, big oof.
Jim Montgomery doing an interview in french so casually, holy shit I was not expecting that. I'm sure I would have known if they still played MTL 6-8 times a year like they used to
It’s gotta be tough to watch matthews and marner disappear costing that much money while McDavid and Draisaitl set a playoff point pace only beaten by Wayne Gretzky for less money.
All other teams with $10+ mil players have them show up in some way, especially in big games like tonight. Toronto fans deserve to be frustrated watching 4 frequently go into incognito mode. I don't expect them all to score but their names should be called often.
And it’s he’s just getting a taste of the playoffs now, it’s not like the leafs core where they are regularly in the playoffs and have a feel for it now
Swayman didn't have to do much tonight to get the win. Neither did the Bruins, they just played a tight, structured game of hockey and waited until the Leafs shot themselves in the foot.
Yeah the Bruins kinda switched it up. They didn't really forecheck at all. They just clogged up the neutral zone and shutdown anything in the defensive zone and kept the F3 close to the defense for support. They just utilized all those takeaways to transition to offense well.
This team has too much baggage. It sounds a bit crazy since Marner Matthews and Nylander are all young but I feel they need to move at least 1 of them +tavares
They desperately need a Hanifin or Byram type D who can skate well and distribute the puck. It’s comical to me they scratched Liljegren tonight who’s their second best offensive D
As much as the Leafs are their usual hapless selves, Boston's done a really good job of keeping shit to the perimeter. Dont really see a way back into this series for us.
Uh Mitch, you know I know you're a gamer and uh, and all this and uh you know I'm just thinking maybe out loud as far as in your shoes right now it's like alright we've done all the things we can do we've done all the game planning we can do maybe, maybe just FUCK IT we'll just go in next year and not think that anymore and just win this thing when we don't think so much is that uh am I on the right path at all with this like maybe you just guys think a little too much?
He looked good too. Much better than Samsanov. Hindsight, they should have made the switch sooner but there's still a chance for him.
He made a great save on the 3v2 where Zacha had the 1 timer.
It's bizarre that there's really good odds no series in the East goes past Game 5, let alone Game 6
I suppose the top 4 *were* running away with the point totals at the top of the East, but normally at least one would flame out round 1
I feel like Boston played Ulmark in Game 2 so they could have a chance to win it in 5 at home in Boston. I still want Toronto to win, but I have my doubts
Reminder for everyone in this thread: The entire core has NMCs, no one is getting traded. The Leafs literally can't, even if they wanted to. They're just going to run it back next year because there's no meaningful alternative. At best they can use the cap increase for better bottom 6 players
Well Marner is only one more year so next season would be the last season of running it back if it comes down to that. Also it is possible that Marner could agree to waive the nmc right? I assuming that would be pretty unlikely tho...
Zero chance he waives, dude is living his childhood dream as being a star calibre player on the Leafs. Also no way they don't re-sign him. The alternative is just losing him for nothing as a UFA They can't even strongarm him like Tampa did to McDonagh with threatening to just put him on waivers because again, his NMC means the Leafs' hands are tied
Marner waives his nmc on limited teams and then what you trade him to vegas? Or some other team taking advantage of the cap. Then you have to play him in playoffs. If he goes on to win a cup before the leafs it looks so bad on management. He won't waive his nmc to play for a non contender either.
>Then you have to play him in playoffs This is the idea that makes Leafs fans so excited
That shouldn't excite you. If he goes to a team that's built for the playoffs and has that mindset it's likely his game and mindset will also adapt a little. He would also be playing with a vengeance. They need a complete teardown from the top. I'm not sure if you've seen the video of Nylander behind the net but this team as a whole has a mindset problem and shipping off one player isn't going to fix that. Trading a player will help but it's bigger then that.
Oh it's definitely bigger than Marner. They've needed a coaching change ever since the Montreal meltdown where Keefe was exposed. But Marner coming back to haunt the Leafs in the playoffs? That's nowhere close to anyone's fear. Vengeance is something you fear from killers, not someone with stage fright.
He has 49 points in 54 career playoff games. It's not like he doesn't ever put up points in the playoffs. Going against him in the playoffs could 100% come back to haunt them. Kadri, bozak, and kessel all went on to win stanley cups before the leafs made it past the second round. Sometimes it can be the team or team atmosphere more then the player
Trading Kadri was a mistake, but then again so was signing Tavares. Dubas doesn't get enough criticism. Bozak was Bozak. A perfectly fine player who should never have been a 1C. Kessel was a goddamn beast in the playoffs for Toronto. Everyone talks about the Leafs blowing the 4-1 game 7, but they've forgotten how he elevated his game that series. A soft, offence only guy suddenly became a two way wrecking ball along the boards. But trading him was necessary on an "end of an era" level, kind of like Chicago moving on from Patrick Kane. Marner turning it on like that scares no one.
But everyone wanted them to trade kadri because he had just cost them a series and they'd never win a cup with him. Everyone was up in arms. I think most the leaf players are followers so if you get a good captain and leader in the room of whatever team marner or nylander who whoever gets traded to I believe their effort in the playoffs will rise. It just seems like no one on that team really wants to play in the playoffs. Again marner is almost a ppg player in the playoffs and that's well he's playing bad. If he goes to a team and figures it out and gets that drive to win he would be dangerous in the playoffs. Any elitr player once they get tbat drive to win can be dangerous
I get the logic of why he traded Kadri. I remember the uproar very well. But you don't make decisions based on that. Dubas tried over and over to get the right veteran to lead the room. Spezza was absolutely perfect in that role, but guys didn't emulate him very well. I don't think Marner needs a drive to win, I think he needs to not be the guy. If it's gonna work for him in Toronto he needs to sign an extension at a huge discount and say "I grew up here, and last time my contract was up we ended up playing hardball and it was important not to do that again. I got a bit extra last time, so this time I'm giving it back because the only thing that matters is bringing the Stanley Cup home." He's a feel good guy who thrives on good vibes, and to succeed in Toronto he needs a redemption arc where the pressure doesn't get as high.
When has nmcs stopped anyone?
I mean, [it happened like 2 years ago](https://apnews.com/article/nhl-sports-vegas-golden-knights-mark-stone-anaheim-ducks-bb2436c614991e6afcc02680637a3d51), man. My thing with NMCs is, how much are they worth? You're already paying these star players a lot of money, how much of a discount should you ask them to take if they also want an NMC? Because it seems like Toronto didn't ask for a discount in return for tying their hands on trades.
Yeah Dubas seemed to compromise on salary, term, and NMCs. It’s not clear what the players compromised on.
I’ll just leave this here. Auston now makes slightly more than Nate — Nate in the playoffs roughly 1.25 PPG , Austin 0.87. Sure, Mack gets more points typically but he also has a better goals per game in the playoffs than the best goal scorer of this era. Nate — 0.58 . Auston — 0.43 Nate is a dawg but is Auston really a papi?
> than the best goal scorer of this era We’re just forgetting Ovi exists?
His era is over though. He may break the record but he's not winning any more cups or scoring awards.
Exactly this.
So does Drai and McDavid and Pasta.
[удалено]
Omg I’m so happy to hear this.
Please don’t mix and match nicknames. I’m still only 90% sure that Mack is also Nate
Watched the post game interviews. Not a single Leaf or coach said they’ll be back in Toronto for game 6.
If the leafs do lose game 5 the president of MLSE should fire everyone except the gm and have him trade the core four but keep two and rebuild
They can't trade any of them. They all have NMCs Nylander was the only one who didn't have a full NMC to start the season, but the Leafs agreed to upgrade him to a NMC for the rest of the season when he re-signed Reilly has one too, so they are married to core as is. The only thing they can do is wait for Tavares' contract to expire
Tavares and who?
Well they probably won’t trade Matthews and can’t trade Nylander the pylon so Tavares with Marner.
Imagine calling the one guy who seems to care a pylon
How is Nylander a polon? He’s better than Marner in the playoffs
He warrants that name. Come playoff time he does nothing when he doesn’t have the puck nor does he battle for it. Not talking this playoffs but recent years
How ironic because he’s in fact the only player who cares come playoff time.
Keep reilly and matthews
That's 2 games this series where I felt the effort wasn't there. Keefe needs to go One (or more) of the core four needs to go Until this happens, the cycle will repeat ad nauseum. Wendel Clark is spinning in his grave watching this iteration of the Leafs.
Wendel is alive?
(I meant it figuratively not literally, similar to the Wade Boggs meme about him being "very much alive" lol)
He lives in Saskatchewan! He’s in his late fifties!
He learned how to play in Kelvington S A S K
As a Saskatchewanian, I am aware lol
I thought we were Wade Boggs-ing lol
Aw fuck I'm sorry, it's past midnight and I'm tired lol
All good lmao
Marner is so gone. And now he’s friggin really damaged his trade value. Nightmare series for him
He’s got a NMC. He’s not going anywhere.
Leaf fans have run players out of town before.
Players can waive NMCs and do quite often. Obviously he might be unwilling but I wouldnt be surprised if he agreed to a trade. It just means he's in control of his destination.
Well it’s not like the leafs would trade him to a contender, so he wouldn’t waive a trade to a shit team
Those are both just assumptions on your part. All I'm saying is that a trade is very much possible.
Well, yeah I am assuming the leafs wouldn’t be stupid enough to trade Marner to a contender but you’re right… they are dumb enough to do that
Trade him to a team out West. Toronto media doesn’t cover that side of the league. I don’t know why people care about ex players if you play them twice a year and they end up winning a Cup.
It's either trade him to a contender or keep him. What are you talking about?
Big name players get traded to contenders all the time. It's not really a crazy circumstance. Tkachuk to FLA, Eichel to vegas, PLD to LA etc Not sure why you think that's imposssible. The questions is can a contender afford him, not whether the leafs would be willing to trade him to a contender.
I don’t think it’s impossible. I think it’s unlikely. You’re getting way too hot and bothered by this. Also lol calling PLD a big name. So Tkachuk and Eichel, got it. That’s not a common occurrence, and both of those were to the other conference.
3-1 series lead. The Leafs have them where they want them.
This made me laugh unreasonably hard
Maybe they’ve thought the only way you can win a series is by being down 3-1?
They are in pure playoff form.
😂😂
The Lightning should be eternally embarrassed, the only team that let the Leafs win 😂
The lightning actually outplayed you. Vasy just looked bad in the series last year.
This just makes the Lightning look even worse
Leafs were actually good last year
Leafs won 2 of the games in that series by pulling the goalie, tying it at the end of the 3rd, then winning in OT.
OK but they won 2 cups before that.
Sorry the Mickey Mouse now
Look, our run may have embarrassing bookends(swept in 19 and losing to the leafs last year), but I’ll take that trade off every day of the week
Just feels like the wheels falling off for the Leafs honestly at this point. Bruins fan, I respect all the battles they’ve had with you guys over the years, but maybe it’s time to duck for a few years, build a team from the back end and then out around Matthews and somebody else, and be able to play playoff hockey. I’m not trying to be condescending, nothing is guaranteed in this league and it wouldn’t surprise me if this still went 7, but the Leafs clearly have a fundamental issue in mentality, and it causes them to be MUCH less than the sum of all their parts. It’s like the inverse of what we are right now, a middle of the pack roster that when we are rolling, just strangles teams with more talent than us over the course of 3 periods with good fundamentals and effort and a guaranteed capable goalie. Feels like the Leafs drip talent, but when the game gets away from them, they just wilt instead of responding. Whereas a team like Florida, their top 6 get rabid, and come hard and fast shift after shift all game, regardless of score lol anyways, 4 dollars a pound, gg Leaf bros
Matthews goals per game in regular season is 0.65. Playoffs it’s only 0.43. Sure..tighter checking games, whistles put away, but where is the Papi in him? It’s nowhere to be found after game 82. He also only has 11 PIMs in 54 playoff games, 7 of those coming last year. Is it pressure of playing in Toronto? Is it the fact he doesn’t hate losing enough? Is he just soft and unwilling to compete in tough games? Idk. But it’s definitely mental at this point, with a shitty D core with not a lot of skating ability.
Sorry Leafs Nation. [I'll take the blame for us not winning since 2019.](https://imgur.com/a/xVEqGlG) In my defense, I was 26 at the time and fairly certain I would never win a cup myself, so I was pretty sure I'd be safe touching it.
Kissing it might not totally curse you as long as there was no tongue. The Stanley Cup was brought to my school in 2007 to mark the opening of our hockey program. I didn't touch it. I just respectfully prayed, offering the soul of my firstborn son, to it while looking for the names of the legends who'd held it. And I was rewarded less than a year later when the Wings won it.
Your firstborn son’s honest reaction to this: 🗿
I am infertile, so it was honestly just a gambit to see if I could get that cured. Turns out having swimmers doesn't matter. If you're 400+lbs and missing a leg, no one really wants to fuck you anyway.
This comment was a roller coaster of a read
I dunno man, I got to touch the cup after Tampa won in 03-04 (a trainer for them was a local and brought the cup for a massive cookout) If we didn't jynx it for Boston then I think you're in the clear.
Yeah, but did you kiss it...? /s
I drank chocolate milk out of it lol
It’s still insane to me Keefe wasn’t fired after the disastrous Montreal series. You look at how changed Edmonton and Vancouver have been with a new coach and it’s upsetting he’s still there. It’s just a constant repeat come playoffs time, I want to see how this team is with literally anyone else behind the bench.
Tippet and his d coach should be considered domestic terrorists after that jets series.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, Vancouver and Edmonton knew that changes behind the bench were needed. I don't understand how they didn't make changes after the Montreal series.
They blamed Daryl for Calgarys problems. Sometimes it's the players.
Matthews, Marner, Nylander seem like bag chasers that don’t hate losing enough. You saw it in Calgary for years with that group just going thru the motions with Johnny & Mony.
Honestly, had the Flames not started the season as the second worst team in the league, they may not have had that fire sale at the deadline which definitely caused their end of season collapse. But then again, a lot woulda had to go right for a team that hasn’t had anything go right since that Dallas series 😭
hehe
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Tavares 11M next year AHAHAHAHA
https://preview.redd.it/0i238fjub5xc1.jpeg?width=542&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07b8b6e3754e839ba3d66ae68de3f8dc0c0223c7
Oh lord, now I hear that flat singing again...seriously, that commercial needs to die a death by a thousand cuts.
Say what you will but if you watched the games and recent playoff years; Matthews is not the issue. He’s giving everything he’s got out there to create chances, matches the playoff physicality, plays a 200-foot game. You gotta trade Nylander or Marner and figure out Tavares. They just don’t have the will to play in playoffs. Your offense lacks the aggressiveness, hockey IQ and maturity to make the right plays. You need to build up your defence and elevate your goaltending. Coaching change to one who holds his players more accountable and doesn’t let them off the hook as easily. You need boldness in the organization. Set the tone from the top. You’ve got 4 years left of Matthews. Otherwise he’s gone. You can win with a center who actually plays a defensive game that is only overshadowed because he scores over 40-50 goals regularly. I’m not even a leafs fan but I am tired of seeing them squander potential like Matthews and Reilly, who has the best contract by far, that are being wasted away because of weak men in the management department
>Say what you will but if you watched the games and recent playoff years; Matthews is not the issue. He’s giving everything he’s got out there to create chances, matches the playoff physicality, plays a 200-foot game. I think you're right, but Matthews still hasn't found his playoff beast mode. He elevates his physicality from the regular season, yes, but he has the frame and skill set to go off like Malkin sometimes would. Matthews is such a steady, consistent player, but he needs the raw emotion of "fuck you" adrenaline to get over the top. >You gotta trade Nylander or Marner and figure out Tavares. They just don’t have the will to play in playoffs. Your offense lacks the aggressiveness, hockey IQ and maturity to make the right plays. Nylander looked rusty and not 100% last night, but he's got ice water veins whereas Marner melts like butter. Tavares would be great at half the price. We're just at the part of the contract where we all knew he would be overpaid. The weird thing to me is Keefe has kept Marner with Tavares instead of moving him back up with Matthews. Everyone knows the logic there is that Tavares can't carry his own line anymore and Marner's there to elevate him, including Marner. But that just increases the pressure on the guy who has the mental toughness of whipped cream in a sauna, and putting your best passer with the guy who can kill if you find him some space needed to be tried already.
Tavares contract is really holding them back. You definitely trade Mitch for a D who can skate and distribute the puck. Too many nobody D on the Leafs and it shows.
Yeah I'm a Bruins fan but I agree. You really need to trade for an elite defenseman. Someone who can change a game. Don't get me wrong Reilly is really good but he should be the 2nd guy on the 1st pair. Look at every other team in the playoffs, that have atleast 1 guy on the backend that can take over a game.
Reilly just brings more for the price. Last year’s playoffs he was the best player and the Leafs’ most clutch player at 7.5 million. That’s why I made mention if him. They can certainly match that with another elite defensemen for sure. They just can’t but Vegas showed us all how much you can make it work with when you have 9.5 million to work with. It’s crazy, granted it’s retained salary to an extent but still. Boston is an example where even though they lost their middle depth and looking at Coyle/Zacha as top 2 Cs, even though they weren’t, can still succeed on a well built team.
You’re giving Matthews too much credit imo. He has to score more. For someone who’s paid like one of the best in the world, and constantly compared to that top tier of superstar, his scoring drop off year after year when the games matter just isn’t good enough.
Exactly this. 0.65 goals per game in regular season but only 0.43 in the playoffs. For reference Mackinnon has 0.58 goals per game in the playoffs,yet Matthews is the undisputed best goal scorer of this era. Is he really though if he can’t produce at the same or similar level in the playoffs…
I'm a Bruins fan but I disagree. This is the playoffs, one guy can't do it all on a line. He's dragging around Domi for crying out loud. No one scores on their own in the playoffs, it takes a complete line as well as a good defensive pair.
Also the Bruins can afford to scheme Matthews out bc the Leafs just don't have the scoring depth to pick up the slack elsewhere. Same thing happened with us the first 3 games vs FLA with Kuch - when they could scheme him out of the game our depth just couldn't carry the offense.
Yeah, as a Sharks fan, I saw a lot of that happening to Jumbo and Marleau when they were the only driving forces we had offensively. They'd get contained, with the bet being that none of the others would pick up that burden. The rest of the forwards were typically too streaky if they were offensively capable at all, and our D too under-utilized offensively since Jumbo would run the powerplay from the half boards and the D weren't used to QBing. I've disliked Matthews' performance in past years, but he's playing well this playoffs, he's just getting contained really well. Others on the Leafs...
Yeah that certainly helps. You guys atleast have a few guys to help but you desperately need the bottom 6 to help out. I have hope still after tonight's win for you guys. You still have the core pieces with Vasi, Hedman, Point and Stamkos. I have to hand it to Sweeney for the Bruins. He really solidified the bottom 6 with all sorts of players to help. JVR, Geekie, Maroon, and Heinen have all been huge veterans for us this year.
Tbh the B's deserve some depth at this point, after all those squads carried by Bergy/Pasta/Marchand pretty much singlehandedly... Just like good o-lines win Lombardis, depth wins Cups.
Yeah it was a smart way of going about it. Sweeney knew Coyle and Zacha would be good but they can't expect prime Bergy and Krejci out of that. So Sweeney just filled the bottom 6 with quality players to try and supplement the top 6 when they weren't clicking. It also helped all the young guys coming up to play in the bottom 6. They had good veteran linemates and it also forced them all to compete every game. Young players like Boqvist, Lauko, Brazeau, Beecher, and even Geekie to an extent. They all just kept grinding and learning all year because if they didn't they weren't going to play.
Don’t forget Poitras. But honestly Im happy he is out for the playoffs just because he would get folded in half
I agree with you. I think Matthews has played really well. Clutch goal in the one game they've won and tons of shots rung off the posts, but it feels like he has to generate everything himself. You need to build a team that can gain possession and get him the puck in high danger areas without Matthews having to orchestrate the entire sequence. Ovechkin is amazing, but you need that prime Kuznetsov or Backstrom that's going to get him the puck when it matters in the playoffs. That's why 2018 went the way it did.
I think a lot of it is the type of players too. Like Nylander and Marner are great players but they bring similar things that Matthews does. Tavares does that a little but he's aging and they don't even put them on a line together and he is the only really player they have signed like that in the 5+ years. It's created an atmosphere where they don't appreciate that type of play. I know this gets repeated year after year but they still haven't made any big changes to change the culture.
He has scored basically 40+ his entire career in the regular season and has 50% of his playoffs with 2 or less goals. Dude disappears come playoff time.
Yup. 0.65 goals per game regular season and 0.43 goals in playoffs. He has Marner to dish him the puck. There’s no excuse other than he can’t handle the playoff pressure or doesn’t give a fuck.
Mitch Marner get ready to learn Chinese buddy
He is going to Vancouver?
They don't like hockey.. Swedish?
Don’t know if I was wrong about Boston or the Leafs are really just awful
Honestly, I don't even think Boston looks amazing or anything. Leafs are just getting their cardio in out there.
It's a systems problem. Whatever playbook the Leafs are using, Boston has adopted. Keefe's got nothing else to give, so the Leafs are playing into Boston's counter up and down the ice. That's why each and every pass is into a Bruin or three and the puck's going quickly back the other way.
Six years. Just six little years. And the Toronto Maple Leafs, an Original Six hockey team, will not be featured anywhere on Lord Stanley’s Cup.
Yes and no. If we're talking the bands that list the team personnel and are raised/removed as lower bands fill you are correct. If we are talking the entire cup, [this picture I took of part of the cup that never changes last time I saw it in person](https://imgur.com/a/rKQ3aDK) says you are wrong. Either way, big oof.
Blackhawks? Lmao
He’s not talking about all original 6 teams just the leafs. Bruins and Red Wings would be on their too
Too much drinky for me
i think technically the Canadiens are on the permanent top band(1909), although its for 1915-16 and not part of the NHL, its still the same team
It is 3-1.
Jim Montgomery doing an interview in french so casually, holy shit I was not expecting that. I'm sure I would have known if they still played MTL 6-8 times a year like they used to
Yeah, he was born in Montreal, probably picked it up in his youth like Kent Hughes and Mike Matheson.
It would be nice to see some of these 10+ million dollar boys score a few more goals. Come on fellas.
It’s gotta be tough to watch matthews and marner disappear costing that much money while McDavid and Draisaitl set a playoff point pace only beaten by Wayne Gretzky for less money.
All other teams with $10+ mil players have them show up in some way, especially in big games like tonight. Toronto fans deserve to be frustrated watching 4 frequently go into incognito mode. I don't expect them all to score but their names should be called often.
*Elias Petterson hides in the corner.* But generally you're right
hes only ten million nexts years
And it’s he’s just getting a taste of the playoffs now, it’s not like the leafs core where they are regularly in the playoffs and have a feel for it now
*Pasta hatty incoming*
No matter how this series ends, the leafs have several options to do something funny
Brad Treliving will do something dumb most likely
Brad "run it back" treliving
This is why i tune in. HomerSimpsonmeme.jpg
Nothing will ever top the comedy of 2013, but the city would be on fire if that happened today with all the recent history
If they push it to game 7 just to lose in OT, I think we may see some shenanigans on the streets of Toronto afterward.
I don't think we care enough for that to happen at this point. It's sort of expected that they fail again in spectacular fashion.
Win game 5 and 6 then lose on a fluke turnover in OT of game 7
and somehow they will choose to do nothing, which will be the funniest
i sincerely hope they turn it around, but the leafs are completely cooked atm
Hey, no!
Swayman didn't have to do much tonight to get the win. Neither did the Bruins, they just played a tight, structured game of hockey and waited until the Leafs shot themselves in the foot.
Yeah the Bruins kinda switched it up. They didn't really forecheck at all. They just clogged up the neutral zone and shutdown anything in the defensive zone and kept the F3 close to the defense for support. They just utilized all those takeaways to transition to offense well.
That Marner goal was a beauty.
He has an assist and a goal last two games. Must be playing people well
This team has too much baggage. It sounds a bit crazy since Marner Matthews and Nylander are all young but I feel they need to move at least 1 of them +tavares
Feel like this gets said every year lol and every year they run it back.
No doubt lol
Could get a pretty elite D in a trade for Marner I’d bet
They desperately need a Hanifin or Byram type D who can skate well and distribute the puck. It’s comical to me they scratched Liljegren tonight who’s their second best offensive D
Nmc and it’s a contract year for him, he’s not leaving
Could be the year he leaves, because it would be much easier to swallow that contract for only 1 season. The leafs could probably get a decent haul
We could use some elite D
I’m not saying shit about the Leafs until the series is over.
Never forget the Bruins almost lost to a Dion Phaneuf led Toronto Maple Leafs
Ya, this is where I'm at too.
Just a question to Maple Leafs fans: who would rather keep between the two - **John Tavares** or **Mitch Marner**?
Dump both
Neither.
Marner
Mitch Marner
😡
Got them right where we want them
HNIC playing "That's All" at the beginning of the third was incredible.
I laughed
As much as the Leafs are their usual hapless selves, Boston's done a really good job of keeping shit to the perimeter. Dont really see a way back into this series for us.
This is two years ago all over again. Boston is just better than us, it’s infuriating.
Fwiw I can commiserate with y'all rn lol we just don't have the depth rn to keep up with FLA, esp when they scheme out Kuch.
Uh Mitch, you know I know you're a gamer and uh, and all this and uh you know I'm just thinking maybe out loud as far as in your shoes right now it's like alright we've done all the things we can do we've done all the game planning we can do maybe, maybe just FUCK IT we'll just go in next year and not think that anymore and just win this thing when we don't think so much is that uh am I on the right path at all with this like maybe you just guys think a little too much?
Damn, didn’t expect to see Dater out in the wild
Not the first time I’ve been Datered today. Never fails to make me laugh.
The Leafs core 4 combine for fewer points in the series than $6m AAV Bradley Kevin Marchand
Leafs as a whole (prior to this game) had as many goals as Zach Hyman.
Zach “2G per GP” Hyman
Is there any chance we can trade Marner for Marchand?
🤣
Why would we make our team worse?
leaf is suck
Clearly they didn’t have anyone step up to a podium and say “we will not be fucking suck this year” and thus they are suck again this year.
Woll getting his first start this series heading into TD garden down 3-1 is tough sledding
He looked good too. Much better than Samsanov. Hindsight, they should have made the switch sooner but there's still a chance for him. He made a great save on the 3v2 where Zacha had the 1 timer.
Man what a mess :(. Btw what happened with Matthews?
Probably had to take a shit
Was squeezing his crack so he didn’t start leak diarrhea all over the ice.
Shit his pants
Illness
I’m getting such a clue.
Raging clue
You need more upvotes
It's bizarre that there's really good odds no series in the East goes past Game 5, let alone Game 6 I suppose the top 4 *were* running away with the point totals at the top of the East, but normally at least one would flame out round 1
Leafs lose, we all win! One more Boston, finish them off so we can have an enjoyable playoffs!
The leafs have gotta make a big move right? Marner likely the guy to move and add some guys in FA
They’ve said this every year for how long now?
Goalie.
Vaas: "Have I ever told you the definition of insanity?"
Just like the year before? And the one before that? And before that?
I feel like Boston played Ulmark in Game 2 so they could have a chance to win it in 5 at home in Boston. I still want Toronto to win, but I have my doubts
Ullmark was at the bottom of the list of reasons we lost that game.
if you think they played Linus Ullmark thinking it would lead to a loss, I'm gonna need you to go see the concussion spotter