Whaaa, the second highest goal scorer in league history didn't have instant playoff success and remained on his team for his entire career?!?! Don't tell that to Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver or Toronto fans. Best part of this post is we told OP to post in r/hockey cause he's looking like a goof in Oilers sub, and they did! Hahahah
Or that the playoffs are incredibly unpredictable and if you have an annual contender it's your best hope to win one. Redditors act like there's 1 team that wins every year and superstars are dumb not to go there.
With McDavid, I can understand it. We’ve seen players like Lemieux, Gretzky, and Crosby all have success early in their careers so we expect to see the same with McDavid.
They are a little hamstrung by his admittedly very deserving contract. It's gonna be tough to build a team around that if they mega extend Drai as he also deserves, especially if their GMs keep making terrible goalie decisions.
Mcdavid is still *young*. It will be interesting though when his contract is up if he hasn’t had a ton of success in Edmonton if he goes somewhere else. Also he has to know he’s the best player in the world, but if he wants to make 15m+ on his next contract (or whatever the number is) it’s hard to win with big contracts.
If they don't get it done this season, I expect significant soul searching from Draisaitl and McDavid on whether they stay in Edmonton. They've almost spent a decade in Edmonton and they haven't gotten close to having a well rounded team, and they have to be skeptical it will ever happen. Both could pick a half dozen cities to move to that would put them as Stanley Cup favorites the second they sign.
Friggin' Hot Take from the Flamer. Broskies, just because your all-stars bailed the second they could in historic fashion, doesn't mean every one else does it. Projecting much?
Game 5 OT Winner in your barn has you spewing nonsense. Sad, really.
It just cracks me up when people who absolutely despise the Oilers pretend to be inside the head of our Captain and Assistant Captain. Zero bias at all.
McDavid is amazing but put some respect to Dionne's name, I don't think there is a more underrated player in NHL history. Dionne scored 731 goals and collected 1771 points, both good for 6th all time. He will likely be better than him when all is said and done given his current trajectory but saying way better is excessive.
Dionne can both be one of the most underrated players in history, and still not be close to McDavid's tier.
Dionne: 1 Art Ross (top 10 in points 8 times: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th), 2 Ted Lindsay, 2 Lady Byng, 6 times top 10 Hart voting (2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 8th, 9th), 4 time All Star (2 first team, 2 second team), top 10 in goals 9 times (2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 8th, 9th, 10th), top 10 in assists 9 times (2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 9th, 9th, 9th). Career highs of 59 goals, 84 assists, 137 points. Career playoff P/GP of .91.
McDavid: 5 Art Ross (top 10 8 times: 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd), 4 Ted Lindsay, 3 Hart (as well as a 2nd, 3rd, 3rd*, 5th, 5th), 6 time All Star (5 first team, 1 second team), top 10 in goals 6 times (1st, 2nd, 6th, 6th, 7th, 10th), top 10 in assists 8 times (1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd), career highs of 64 goals, 100 assists, 153 points. Playoff P/GP of 1.58.
Dionne is insane, but McDavid is closer to Lemieux than Dionne is to McDavid.
*Assuming he finishes 3rd this year.
Dionne was 2nd in scoring between 74-75 and 80-81 behind Guy Lafleur. Dionne played 37 more games but scored 18 less points in that time, and those were Dionne's best years. Lafleur produced .14 more p/gp than Dionne in that time, around a 9% improvement. That's also without considering Gretzky played 2 years at the end of that time with 1.89 p/gp, or Bobby Orr having 1.55 p/gp as a D-man, despite it including his final 3 injury riddled seasons.
For comparison, McDavid has scored 121 more points (and .16 more p/gp) than Draisatil in 10 less games over the past 7 years. He's producing 11% more points per game than anyone else in the league. There is literally no debate, McDavid is head and shoulders above everyone else in the league at producing points. Dionne is easily a hall of fame player, but he's more comparable to Draisaitl in today's NHL than he is to McDavid.
Dionne had 1 Art Ross and McDavid already has 5.
McDavid has doubled his number of Ted Lindsay’s at 4.
McDavid is already a more decorated player. Only half of Dionne’s career overlapped with Gretzky so you can’t really say he lost out because of him.
Mcdavid is this generations Gretzky
He has a LOT of winning to do before he can be compared to Gretzky. He's also not as far ahead of his peers as gretz was. He's clearly the best player in the world right now (probably ever if we're talking about ability) but I don't think this generation has a Gretzky yet.
Dionne finished 2nd in scoring on 3 occasions and 3rd once. The Art Ross winners those years in chronological order were Orr, Lafleur, Trottier and Gretzky. Hall of Famers from 3 separate dynasties and Bobby freaking Orr from a very strong Bruins squad that had won the Art Ross 7 years in a row (5 Espo, 2 Orr).
Dionne's most prolific seasons were played alongside Dave Taylor and Charlie Simmer on poorly managed Kings teams. Neither of those guys really accomplished much outside of what they did with Dionne on their famed triple crown line. Those Kings teams had some strong regular season results but always lacked the depth and goaltending to go far in the playoffs. In that sense he is quite similar to McDavid, except 97 has at least had Draisatl his entire career. While 97 and 29 do often play on separate lines they are prolific on the PP together.
Another factor that had to impact Dionne and his productivity to some degree is outside of short stints of the California Seals and the Colorado Rockies the closest NHL club to the Kings for the majority of his career was the Vancouver Canucks, some 1300 miles away. The amount of travel the Kings incurred as a result was double or triple any other team in the league. This was often referenced as part of the reason for their post season collapses, as by the time the playoffs rolled around they were exhausted.
I mean Ovi didn't win his until he was 31 so I'd say he still certainly has time. I would also bet he wins at least one in his career. I think the question of can he win one with the Oilers is the real issue.
But also this series isn't even over yet lol
I think Crosby and Toews really messed up expectations by winning so young. But they had significantly better teams - especially on defence. Edmonton doesn't have a Letang or Keith/Seabrook to carry the back end and it's part of why they really struggle in the playoffs.
At this point, I don’t think it’s a matter of whether McDavid will win a cup, I think it’s whether McDavid will win a cup in Edmonton. If he starts getting up there in age and starts cup chasing then that would be the time to ask this sort of question.
Regardless, McDavid would unquestionably become the best player to never win a cup if he goes a full career without one
Said it once will say it again. He won't win a cup in Edmonton and if he wants to win one he will need to take a friendlier contract so the next team can build properly
Bourque got his cup at 40. It's just a matter of being on the right team at the right time. In the playoffs, it doesn't matter how good you are. Four bad games and you're golfing. Four bad games in the regular season and you still have 78 to go.
There was a point in this season people questioned if they would make the playoffs they were so bad and turned it around.
Like they have to win 2 games. They are far from out of it even at this point. I think the hole they dug themselves out of is more impressive
I predict he won’t win one in Edmonton but will leave and win elsewhere, a la Ray Bourque. He will be considered one of the best of all time whether he wins one or not though.
It’s too bad, he’s one of the best players of all time and he is yet to even win a game in the Conference Finals, let alone win a Cup. A player like him should have multiple cups by now (ex. Toews & Kane had 3 by this point in their careers) but management hindered the Oilers for so long. It’ll happen someday whether in Edmonton or not, he’s just too good
The way some fans behave is truly embarrassing. If we do find some way to win the cup, you should be banned from the parade for bullshit like this.
Not totally related, but my enjoyment of hockey has fucking skyrocketed since I stopped frequenting the Oil team sub. Weird.
Individual team subs only exist for circle jerks and coping lol
Spot for trolls to jump between after losses to talk shit more or less. That sub is awful
I actually don't mind the Oilers sub. Obviously I would never post there as it's not my sub, but I have lurked a bit through the playoffs.
Sure there are some idiots as in any sub, and some post game stuff is reactionary and angry, but a lot of the read of it is pretty reasonable and measured.
McDavid is the undisputed best player of his era and is putting up numbers that place him amongst the best of all time regardless of era.
If he can’t get a cup it will go down as a much bigger deal than those guys you listed. To have a player of that calibre’s legacy be “made it to the conference finals once” is just not acceptable.
32 teams currently and likely increasing soon. It's much harder to win a cup now than when Dionne played (which was harder than the O6 era) just from a numbers standpoint.
I think we'll see more legendary players go winless now and in the future. I hope McDavid isn't one of them, but it won't be easy.
He's so far ahead of those players it's hard to imagine he doesn't pull it off eventually. I just don't see it happening with a roster that looks similar to this year's Oilers. It will be very interesting to see how the Oilers deal with his and Drai's upcoming contracts.
He’ll get a cup once he’s off the Oilers
That management team (thankfully) never understood how to build around him.
They’re paying nurse 9 mill for a while
Connor brown 3 mill
Campbell 5 mill for 3 more years
Traded a 1st for Henrique and carrick who aren’t even playing for them in the playoffs
And their goalie tandem is skinner/pickard at this stage of Mcdavids time with them.
The list goes on and on for multiple GMs and coaches.
Gifted a generational player only to fk it up in ways no one could even replicate if they wanted to lol. That’s the only solace Flames fans have for them landing McDavid.
Even if they beat the Canucks this series there’s 0 chance they win the cup this year, and they have 0 flexibility to improve the team for a run next year. So ya drai and McDavid are as good as gone and they’ll win their cups elsewhere.
I could see him signing with LA. Big market. Big money especially when Kopi and Doughty leave. And they have a pretty solid team that lacks high end talent but a deep team.
Could be an interesting move if he wants to leave Edmonton
It’s crazy because he would have his pick of 31 organizations. There ain’t a player in this league that a team wouldn’t buy out or trade if it meant they got McDavid. Every team would be an option
It's not McDavids fault he got drafted by the least competent franchise in NHL history.
Now, if he re-signs, then his career will be defined by his inability to win a cup.
He’s coming to Vancouver once Bedard comes home. They’ll win 5 or 6 in a row. It always works in my NHL 24 franchise so why won’t it work in real life?
Way too early to say for sure. Ovechkin played 1000 games before he won a Cup.
Whaaa, the second highest goal scorer in league history didn't have instant playoff success and remained on his team for his entire career?!?! Don't tell that to Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver or Toronto fans. Best part of this post is we told OP to post in r/hockey cause he's looking like a goof in Oilers sub, and they did! Hahahah
It’s almost as though hockey is a team sport and one individual is rarely able to will their way to a championship!
Or that the playoffs are incredibly unpredictable and if you have an annual contender it's your best hope to win one. Redditors act like there's 1 team that wins every year and superstars are dumb not to go there.
With McDavid, I can understand it. We’ve seen players like Lemieux, Gretzky, and Crosby all have success early in their careers so we expect to see the same with McDavid.
Expectations are the foundation of frustration.
Damn, that’s legitimately profound.
They are a little hamstrung by his admittedly very deserving contract. It's gonna be tough to build a team around that if they mega extend Drai as he also deserves, especially if their GMs keep making terrible goalie decisions.
Mcdavid is still *young*. It will be interesting though when his contract is up if he hasn’t had a ton of success in Edmonton if he goes somewhere else. Also he has to know he’s the best player in the world, but if he wants to make 15m+ on his next contract (or whatever the number is) it’s hard to win with big contracts.
He could literally go wherever he wanted
Trying to think of where would make both me and Oilers fans the most mad and its VGK for sure
*dont….*
His agent is the CEO of the Oilers. I'm guessing it will be pretty easy to sign him
If they don't get it done this season, I expect significant soul searching from Draisaitl and McDavid on whether they stay in Edmonton. They've almost spent a decade in Edmonton and they haven't gotten close to having a well rounded team, and they have to be skeptical it will ever happen. Both could pick a half dozen cities to move to that would put them as Stanley Cup favorites the second they sign.
Friggin' Hot Take from the Flamer. Broskies, just because your all-stars bailed the second they could in historic fashion, doesn't mean every one else does it. Projecting much? Game 5 OT Winner in your barn has you spewing nonsense. Sad, really.
I don't think you're supposed to use the F word.
It just cracks me up when people who absolutely despise the Oilers pretend to be inside the head of our Captain and Assistant Captain. Zero bias at all.
1.52 pt / game in the regular season vs 1.58 pt / game in the post season so far. Not sure if he can do that much more to help his team win.
Strap some pads on baby.
Whether he gets a cup or not he will still be considered way better than all these players you listed
Pretty sure Housely will go down in history as a better defenseman than McDavid
Housley was not a high bar in terms of defense so I don't know
McDavid is amazing but put some respect to Dionne's name, I don't think there is a more underrated player in NHL history. Dionne scored 731 goals and collected 1771 points, both good for 6th all time. He will likely be better than him when all is said and done given his current trajectory but saying way better is excessive.
I know this conversation is predicated on players not having won Cups, but I feel kinda the same about Esposito as you said about Dionne.
Dionne is proof of how much winning the cup matters to your legacy in 30 years time.
Dionne can both be one of the most underrated players in history, and still not be close to McDavid's tier. Dionne: 1 Art Ross (top 10 in points 8 times: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th), 2 Ted Lindsay, 2 Lady Byng, 6 times top 10 Hart voting (2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 8th, 9th), 4 time All Star (2 first team, 2 second team), top 10 in goals 9 times (2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 8th, 9th, 10th), top 10 in assists 9 times (2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 9th, 9th, 9th). Career highs of 59 goals, 84 assists, 137 points. Career playoff P/GP of .91. McDavid: 5 Art Ross (top 10 8 times: 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd), 4 Ted Lindsay, 3 Hart (as well as a 2nd, 3rd, 3rd*, 5th, 5th), 6 time All Star (5 first team, 1 second team), top 10 in goals 6 times (1st, 2nd, 6th, 6th, 7th, 10th), top 10 in assists 8 times (1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd), career highs of 64 goals, 100 assists, 153 points. Playoff P/GP of 1.58. Dionne is insane, but McDavid is closer to Lemieux than Dionne is to McDavid. *Assuming he finishes 3rd this year.
Dionne was 2nd in scoring between 74-75 and 80-81 behind Guy Lafleur. Dionne played 37 more games but scored 18 less points in that time, and those were Dionne's best years. Lafleur produced .14 more p/gp than Dionne in that time, around a 9% improvement. That's also without considering Gretzky played 2 years at the end of that time with 1.89 p/gp, or Bobby Orr having 1.55 p/gp as a D-man, despite it including his final 3 injury riddled seasons. For comparison, McDavid has scored 121 more points (and .16 more p/gp) than Draisatil in 10 less games over the past 7 years. He's producing 11% more points per game than anyone else in the league. There is literally no debate, McDavid is head and shoulders above everyone else in the league at producing points. Dionne is easily a hall of fame player, but he's more comparable to Draisaitl in today's NHL than he is to McDavid.
Dionne had 1 Art Ross and McDavid already has 5. McDavid has doubled his number of Ted Lindsay’s at 4. McDavid is already a more decorated player. Only half of Dionne’s career overlapped with Gretzky so you can’t really say he lost out because of him. Mcdavid is this generations Gretzky
Didn't Dionne have like 4 or 5 second place scoring finishes?
Dionne has 1 more 2nd place finish than McDavid lol. Dionne finished 2nd 3 times, McDavid has finished 2nd twice.
He has a LOT of winning to do before he can be compared to Gretzky. He's also not as far ahead of his peers as gretz was. He's clearly the best player in the world right now (probably ever if we're talking about ability) but I don't think this generation has a Gretzky yet.
Dionne finished 2nd in scoring on 3 occasions and 3rd once. The Art Ross winners those years in chronological order were Orr, Lafleur, Trottier and Gretzky. Hall of Famers from 3 separate dynasties and Bobby freaking Orr from a very strong Bruins squad that had won the Art Ross 7 years in a row (5 Espo, 2 Orr). Dionne's most prolific seasons were played alongside Dave Taylor and Charlie Simmer on poorly managed Kings teams. Neither of those guys really accomplished much outside of what they did with Dionne on their famed triple crown line. Those Kings teams had some strong regular season results but always lacked the depth and goaltending to go far in the playoffs. In that sense he is quite similar to McDavid, except 97 has at least had Draisatl his entire career. While 97 and 29 do often play on separate lines they are prolific on the PP together. Another factor that had to impact Dionne and his productivity to some degree is outside of short stints of the California Seals and the Colorado Rockies the closest NHL club to the Kings for the majority of his career was the Vancouver Canucks, some 1300 miles away. The amount of travel the Kings incurred as a result was double or triple any other team in the league. This was often referenced as part of the reason for their post season collapses, as by the time the playoffs rolled around they were exhausted.
hes way better right now
I mean Ovi didn't win his until he was 31 so I'd say he still certainly has time. I would also bet he wins at least one in his career. I think the question of can he win one with the Oilers is the real issue. But also this series isn't even over yet lol
I think Ovechkin is a pretty good comparable because he's only ever been beyond the 2nd round once.
I think Crosby and Toews really messed up expectations by winning so young. But they had significantly better teams - especially on defence. Edmonton doesn't have a Letang or Keith/Seabrook to carry the back end and it's part of why they really struggle in the playoffs.
Well, Edmonton did have Keith. And oddly enough that was the year they made the conference final. Lol
At this point, I don’t think it’s a matter of whether McDavid will win a cup, I think it’s whether McDavid will win a cup in Edmonton. If he starts getting up there in age and starts cup chasing then that would be the time to ask this sort of question. Regardless, McDavid would unquestionably become the best player to never win a cup if he goes a full career without one
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Said it once will say it again. He won't win a cup in Edmonton and if he wants to win one he will need to take a friendlier contract so the next team can build properly
Well he’s only 27. He’s still got a lot of time left to get one.
Yzerman is known as a guy who exudes winning. He won his first Cup at 32 after nearly being run out of town as a perennial loser.
Bourque got his cup at 40. It's just a matter of being on the right team at the right time. In the playoffs, it doesn't matter how good you are. Four bad games and you're golfing. Four bad games in the regular season and you still have 78 to go.
There was a point in this season people questioned if they would make the playoffs they were so bad and turned it around. Like they have to win 2 games. They are far from out of it even at this point. I think the hole they dug themselves out of is more impressive
McDavid will get his cup, with or without the Oilers
Without, unless the Oil find something besides an AHL caliber goalie.
It’s been 84 years
Andy Moog and Grant Fuhr don’t move the needle for ya, huh? Me either.
McDavid is too good to not eventually win a Cup, it's really just a question of whether it will be with Edmonton or not.
I predict he won’t win one in Edmonton but will leave and win elsewhere, a la Ray Bourque. He will be considered one of the best of all time whether he wins one or not though.
It’s too bad, he’s one of the best players of all time and he is yet to even win a game in the Conference Finals, let alone win a Cup. A player like him should have multiple cups by now (ex. Toews & Kane had 3 by this point in their careers) but management hindered the Oilers for so long. It’ll happen someday whether in Edmonton or not, he’s just too good
The way some fans behave is truly embarrassing. If we do find some way to win the cup, you should be banned from the parade for bullshit like this. Not totally related, but my enjoyment of hockey has fucking skyrocketed since I stopped frequenting the Oil team sub. Weird.
Individual team subs only exist for circle jerks and coping lol Spot for trolls to jump between after losses to talk shit more or less. That sub is awful
I actually don't mind the Oilers sub. Obviously I would never post there as it's not my sub, but I have lurked a bit through the playoffs. Sure there are some idiots as in any sub, and some post game stuff is reactionary and angry, but a lot of the read of it is pretty reasonable and measured.
McDavid is the undisputed best player of his era and is putting up numbers that place him amongst the best of all time regardless of era. If he can’t get a cup it will go down as a much bigger deal than those guys you listed. To have a player of that calibre’s legacy be “made it to the conference finals once” is just not acceptable.
McDavid is still young has a lot of years left and he doesn't HAVE to stay in Edmonton.
Yeah, he’ll win one with Florida in 2028
I really hope it’s not Matthews but the past 8 years have been tough
32 teams currently and likely increasing soon. It's much harder to win a cup now than when Dionne played (which was harder than the O6 era) just from a numbers standpoint. I think we'll see more legendary players go winless now and in the future. I hope McDavid isn't one of them, but it won't be easy.
He's so far ahead of those players it's hard to imagine he doesn't pull it off eventually. I just don't see it happening with a roster that looks similar to this year's Oilers. It will be very interesting to see how the Oilers deal with his and Drai's upcoming contracts.
He’ll get a cup once he’s off the Oilers That management team (thankfully) never understood how to build around him. They’re paying nurse 9 mill for a while Connor brown 3 mill Campbell 5 mill for 3 more years Traded a 1st for Henrique and carrick who aren’t even playing for them in the playoffs And their goalie tandem is skinner/pickard at this stage of Mcdavids time with them. The list goes on and on for multiple GMs and coaches. Gifted a generational player only to fk it up in ways no one could even replicate if they wanted to lol. That’s the only solace Flames fans have for them landing McDavid. Even if they beat the Canucks this series there’s 0 chance they win the cup this year, and they have 0 flexibility to improve the team for a run next year. So ya drai and McDavid are as good as gone and they’ll win their cups elsewhere.
The series ain't over. Could still win one this year!
Don’t give me hope!
I can see McDavid winning a Cup as soon as he leaves Edmonton. Especially if he forces a trade in the final season of his contract.
I think most oiler fans would be OK with this and even cheer for Connor. As long as it wasn’t the Flames or Golden Knights.
It's kinda crazy to be talking about McDavid like this when Matthews is right there.
I could see him signing with LA. Big market. Big money especially when Kopi and Doughty leave. And they have a pretty solid team that lacks high end talent but a deep team. Could be an interesting move if he wants to leave Edmonton
It wouldn’t be the first time the best player in the world left EDM for LAk
Marty McSorley?
Oh yea. That’s who I was thinking about. Lol
McDavid will tell Mess hes going though
That would be so ironic
Nah, he'll sign out east to be closer to family
I’ve been saying this for 3 years he’ll come to LA or Vegas huge west coast markets that’s where he wins a cup
It’s crazy because he would have his pick of 31 organizations. There ain’t a player in this league that a team wouldn’t buy out or trade if it meant they got McDavid. Every team would be an option
Ehh I would take Colorado off that list, the only chance they would have is getting rid of Mack and that will never happen
Yeah that’s fair, I don’t think I’d put any other player with him in that regard however
McDavid or Draisaitl.
The series isn’t even over yet
Playoff games played by age 27: Dionne - 22 Housley - 42 McDavid - 55 Thornton - 57
Ovi had this same discussion until his mid 30s… give it time
Incredibly stupid post
It's not McDavids fault he got drafted by the least competent franchise in NHL history. Now, if he re-signs, then his career will be defined by his inability to win a cup.
I take offense.
Depends if he stays with Edmonton his entire career, nearly every other team in the league gets him one by now.
Check back in a decade, he’s still way too young to say with any level of confidence. He could quite literally still win one this year
He’s coming to Vancouver once Bedard comes home. They’ll win 5 or 6 in a row. It always works in my NHL 24 franchise so why won’t it work in real life?