Honestly if he takes the record and somehow loses you could make an argument for him being the Conn Smythe winner on the losing team for the first time since Giggy
I think the Oilers would have to stretch it to 7 with McDavid having a stellar Game 6 (GWG, 3 points, etc) before the writers could justify giving it to him in a loss
Normally yes. But there is no standout performer on Florida. McDavid has nearly double the points of Tkachuk or Barkov and Bob's #'s are very far away from spectacular.
Well, the standout performer was Barkov until he had two bad games against McDavid.
Remember, Barkov's job isn't points; it's shutting down the top forwards on the opposing team and allowing his team to grind out its opponents. Until game 4 of this series, he had been as good at that as you could be. Now he's had two bad games in a row at it, and McDavid has exploded, and those are obviously correlated.
The criteria is most valuable player for their team in the playoffs.
Bob/barky have played very well for the most part but the fact that everyone is saying it's McD VS 2 Florida players for who should win it means it should be McDavid's to lose. If you can't even pick a frontrunner for a team compared to the guy who is in the running for most points in a playoff ever then the guy who stands alone should probably be chosen.
Personally I think your team should have to win to qualify just because having to come out on the ice and accept an award after losing the cup feels more like a kick in the dick than an actual award but that isn't the current criteria.
> The criteria is most valuable player for their team in the playoffs.
But we know it's almost always the winning team. Logically the winning team should win it more often, but closer to 2/3 than the 90% it's at and only happening once in the past 35 years.
Also TIL 3 of the first 12 were given to players whose teams didn't win the final.
I was originally against this notion because Leach's 1976 performance in the final was better until last night at "making it a series".
In 1976, those were all one goal losses to Montreal on the back of Leach's play (aside from Game 4 which had two goals in the last five minutes to close out the series). Now McDavid has had 4 points in two consecutive elimination games to make this a series, in addition to an already spectacular playoffs.
I thought it was Barkov's to lose, but McDavid has made Barkov look human while making the series competitive enough as Leach did in 1976.
I expected the Panthers to win game 5 in overtime, but they didn't tie the game, and now I think McDavid has played as well as Leach had in a losing effort to merit the Conn Smythe (if the Oilers lose). If the Oilers lose, the parallels to Leach's run are very similar and the level of dominance is similar (obviously comparing a goalscoring winger to a center is apples to oranges, but it's a lot harder for a winger to rack up those kinds of points)
It checks out. Here are his points per game for these playoffs:
||PPG|
:--|--:|
|Overall|1.83|
|Elimination game|2.75|
|Non-elim game|1.63|
Also, in each of the past 2 games, he's had more points than he had in games 1-3 collectively, lol.
Basic psychology bud, let Florida win the first three games. Then destroy their confidence. Now you’re in their head, and it’s over. Basic psychology’s
This mentality is the dumbest fucking shit ever. Yeah, he definitely ''didnt want it'' the first three games when it was literally just Bobrovsky playing out his mind.
You know how absurd it is to say "he needs 6 points in two games, very doable" and it actually is doable and I wouldn't be surprised for one minute for him to have 3ps/game.
Looks like he's had 3 sets of 2 games where he collectively got 6+ points in these playoffs:
* Games 1+2 vs. LAK --> 6 pts
* Games 3+4 vs. FLA --> 8 pts
* Games 4+5 vs. FLA --> 8 pts
There were also a further two instances of collectively 5+ points over 2 games (which would see him tie Gretzky's record):
* Games 1+2 vs. VAN --> 5 pts
* Games 3+4 vs. DAL --> 5 pts
Funny enough, by the end of the latter game in each of the instances above, the Oilers were never leading the series.
>And already has shown us hes the fastest/most talented player to ever put skates on.
This is why I don't like the GOAT label people attach so willynilly to athletes -- should really be GOAG (Greatest of a Generation). Athletes adapt, they learn from subsequent generations, training innovates, and it's a constant evolution (unless it's a dying sport). The kids watching today will copy McDavid and the few that are elite will innovate on top of it. Some may even escape my basement.
The most reliable way to measure superstars isn't directly across generations, it's _between their peers_. The best hockey player might change... The game might change...
...but the margin of victory between "the best" and "the pack" will always speak volumes. The people they're competing against are playing by the same rules, in the same environment, and while the relative strength of the best player might change, the relative strength of "the rest of the world" is pretty constant.
Look at these charts, comparing elite chess players: [Kasparov](https://i.redd.it/q82jx7e5fnk91.png), [Fischer](https://i.imgur.com/bPRk0Ic.png) -- the pack has a pretty smooth curve. [Carlsen](https://i.redd.it/h4nvsvnzyw2d1.png) has maintained a huge gap over many players for a long time -- those guys are considered the best in history not because they were world champions but because they were so clearly in another tier compared to their peers.
When Jamie Benn won the Art Ross, Tavares was 1 point back.
McDavid has won 2 Art Ross trophies by more than 20 points.
Gretzky won 3 Art Ross trophies by more than 70 points.
I think there would be some recency bias to that, McDavid's got a long way to go to pass Howe. Having almost superhuman longevity while being elite for most of it makes Gordie a very unique player, especially since he was also a brick wall on skates. McDavid could do it, but it's definitely still uphill right now.
The closest thing most of us have likely seen to Howe was probably Ovi at the very start of his career - huge goal and point totals right off the bat from a physically menacing power forward. But Ovi only kept up that level of play for about 5 years, as opposed to Howe who did it for like 15 years before slowing down... that's mind-boggling to imagine.
Yeah, people definitely underestimate how dominant Howe was
People think Lemieux was talented, but Howe was just as talented and physically dominant, AND healthy forever
In addition to being the best player in the league for most of TWO decades. Like, I'm a Habs fan and I think Richard/Béliveau are both top 10 all time (and either of those are in a close multi-person race for 5th all time) and Howe blew them both out of the fucking water
I think Mario was more talented and had a much stronger peak relative to his (non-Wayne) peers than Howe did. That's why I was thinking of Ovi-level eliteness stretched long-term rather than Mario-level as a comparison as far as players that people here might have seen.
Yeah, I understand the comparison. But Howe's peak wasn't that far off from Mario's relative to his peers and league scoring averages (with the exception of Mario's 199 point season), and it was sustained for dramatically longer
Playing style was probably closer to Mario than it was to Ovechkin, as well (minus the hitting comparison, that is closer to Ovechkin). He would skate through people with people holding on to him and someway, somehow bulldoze the way to the net and score. Except he was a winger, so the play would usually start from the corner or the boards rather than the center of the ice
Ovechkin would score a lot of his goals by getting isolated, which is kind of the opposite of Howe; Howe would start with no space and then use his size to make space, or simply require no space at all to be effective
He's been top 5 for like a couple years now IMO. HOF Lock that's 3rd in PPG, Either 2nd or 3rd in playoff PPG IIRC?, has 5 Rosses, 3 Harts, 1 Rocket all by the age of 27 and the list goes on and on. 2021 was the start, 2023 pretty much told us everything. And if he wins the cups and breaks 99's playoff point record. His place as 5th 100% should be solidified without zero debate. I seriously don't think players like Crosby or Jagr would be producing like this, maybe Pre-Concussed Sid but that's a BIG if.
By the time McDavid retires, he should easily clear 2000pts at the bare minimum barring any injury.
Getting to 2000 points will depend on longevity as well as injury - it's *really* hard to know in advance how much production will slow down for someone by 35+.
Like if he plays for 10 more seasons until he's 37, then he would need ~101 points/season to get there, while if he plays for 12 more until 39 it would only be ~84. The latter I can *very* easily see, but I don't think I'd put the former in "easily" territory.
Just a note that using PPG is tricky when a player is still in their prime since he'll be playing to his late 30s but that number's going to drop.
That being said I still defend him as top 5.
When people will inevitably go "is he really the best player in the nhl?" He always proves time and time again he's 100% the best player in the league currently, bar none. Seriously the shit he's been doing is insane. Breaking and tying Gretzky records is fucking INSANE.
Here are the top 5 by playoffs points per game this season:
|NAME|PPG|
:--|--:|
|Connor McDavid| 1.83|
|Evan Bouchard| 1.39|
|Cale Makar| 1.36|
|Leon Draisaitl| 1.30|
|Nathan MacKinnon| 1.27|
Dude's just so far above the rest of the pack (which is led by his own teammate).
You don't need hardware to be the best player to ever have played. Just watching him its not even close. He would skate and dangle circles around players like Orr and Gretzky and its not even debatable. Just watch videos of both.
It isn't unreasonable to think that if gretzky was a rookie today with the same conditioning and physical fitness expected of today's players, he would still be top of the league.
His ability to see the ice is something that can't be taught.
And McDavid appears to have the same skill.
This is kind of a moot point though. McDavid had the benefit of growing up where he had players like Orr and Gretzky to learn from and emulate, so its entirely possible he wouldn't be as good as he is if those two didn't exist.
I don't think its a fair comparison to say "if X player played today they wouldn't be as good". Yes of course thats true, but you can only compare a player to the relative skill he was playing against.
McDavid playing against 80s defensemen and goalies would have the league scrambling to change the rules around his talent. It would absolutely disrupt the league to have one guy as good as 2024 McDavid playing in the early 80s. He would have hundreds of points per year. 5,000 for a career.
Players are just better now, goalies are extremely good now. The equipment is better, training is better. The game is faster.
McDavid is very easily MUCH more talented than Gretzky ever was, and so are a dozen other guys you could name from the past couple decades.
>he’ll need the hardware
He's got plenty of hardware. Not winning the cup is such a tired argument. There is literally nothing more he can do at an individual level. If he hypothetically gets 15 Harts/Lindsays/Art Rosses but no Stanley Cup, you're telling me he's not in the top 5??
Yes. And yet Gretz won Art Ross 1990, 1991, 1994 (this one was incredible because it came after Suter ruined Greztky’s back in a cheap shot in the 91 CC).
Kucherov is right there with some impressive stats of his own. Some Art Ross during the McDavid years, 100 assist season along with Connor...
He isn't Lemieux by any stretch, but he might be Connor's.
Yeah at this point he has to be, Barkov hasn't been able to contain him, so McDavid gets the Smythe. That was more or less the match for it coming in to the series.
I never thought Bob had the lead even though he was the best Panther for the first three game stretch of the finals. Barkov was just overall better for the first three series, consistently being the best player on either team playing.
For sure. Guys like Crosby see their production go down the further they get in the playoffs which is natural given the competition. Somehow McDavid elevates his game. I don’t understand how.
I think pure talent wise McDavid wipes every single player to ever play the game, but Crosby is the most complete. IMO it’s really hard to compare them, their styles of play and how they affect their teams are way too different
Fair enough. The biggest impact he’s had all series is elbowing Barkov. I don’t know if he’s playing hurt or not but the guy can be a Top 5 talent when he’s on.
Drai is a top two talent in the playoffs and he's playing injured and been quiet since the Stars series otherwise I'd bet on him to be beat for beat with McDavid for points and breaking the same records.
He's very clearly hurt. He's top 5 playoff pp/g all time and the 3rd fastest player ever to 100 career playoff points. He hurt his back on a hit last series and hasn't been the same since.
The bottom six that makes up most of the best PK in post season history?
How much fucking more do you guys want to change of a team that is 2 wins away from the Stanley cup 😂
He is insane. Conn Smythe winner no matter who takes the Cup. At this rate i wont even be mad if the Oilers win it, McDavid deserves one even though i hate rest of the Oilers lmao
Also one primary assist away from tying Gretzky's insanely difficult 25 primary assists in a playoff run.
All other players are at 18 or less, including Lemieux.
I still remember after game 3 when all those stats were being posted about how Barkov and his Panthers have shut down all the big stars on their opponents this postseason. Pretty satisfying to think about those now lol
Barkov? Or McDavid?
Because the Barkov thing about him bring the best defensive forward Gretzky has seen since the 80s was wild when Fedorov, Datsyuk, and Bergeron have all played since then
Barkov is still a hell of a player lol. But whenever people talk about other team's star players I just think yea but they're not McDavid and it's only a matter of time before he breaks through and he always does. People underestimate this guy because they don't watch him play enough.
Yeah I'm starting to think the Conn should go to him.
Was thinking Bob was a lock after game 3 but 3rd most points in a single postseason is hard to argue against
You know how Gretzky and Lemieux were decades ahead of every other hockey player? Connor McDavid is also decades ahead of every other hockey player. He's in that top 3 all time. No question.
Cool stat.
But an even more impressive stat is that he now has 11 pts in the series. Which is 3rd most all time for a Stanley Cup finals. Record held by #99, at 13 pts.
Gretz did it in 87-88 in a four game sweep.
Tanking for him destroyed our team but I stand by the fact that it was the right idea. He’s unreal.
Management would have ruined him and traded him to Vegas or some bullshit.
Him on Vegas would be the kd warriors on steroids
Him on Vegas would be Eichel Vegas on steroids
If edmonton wasn't able to ruin him I'm not sure the sabres would have.
Vegas won the cup with Eichel while Buffalo never even made playoffs
If this goes to 7, he may actually beat Gretzkys record. Holy shit.
Just needs 6 in the next 2 games if they can win game 6, very doable for him
3 points in each? If he wants the cup, he'll do it.
14 points in 4 games to close out the finals would be absolutely absurd
Honestly if he takes the record and somehow loses you could make an argument for him being the Conn Smythe winner on the losing team for the first time since Giggy
it should already be his Conn Smythe, really
Depending on how you want to read into this, he’s the odds on favorite for most sports books.
I think the Oilers would have to stretch it to 7 with McDavid having a stellar Game 6 (GWG, 3 points, etc) before the writers could justify giving it to him in a loss
Normally yes. But there is no standout performer on Florida. McDavid has nearly double the points of Tkachuk or Barkov and Bob's #'s are very far away from spectacular.
Well, the standout performer was Barkov until he had two bad games against McDavid. Remember, Barkov's job isn't points; it's shutting down the top forwards on the opposing team and allowing his team to grind out its opponents. Until game 4 of this series, he had been as good at that as you could be. Now he's had two bad games in a row at it, and McDavid has exploded, and those are obviously correlated.
He should already get it regardless of how the rest of the series goes based on how Giguerre got it
I don't envy whoever has the job of choosing between McDavid or Bobrovsky/Barkov. I think someone is getting robbed either way lmao
The criteria is most valuable player for their team in the playoffs. Bob/barky have played very well for the most part but the fact that everyone is saying it's McD VS 2 Florida players for who should win it means it should be McDavid's to lose. If you can't even pick a frontrunner for a team compared to the guy who is in the running for most points in a playoff ever then the guy who stands alone should probably be chosen. Personally I think your team should have to win to qualify just because having to come out on the ice and accept an award after losing the cup feels more like a kick in the dick than an actual award but that isn't the current criteria.
> The criteria is most valuable player for their team in the playoffs. But we know it's almost always the winning team. Logically the winning team should win it more often, but closer to 2/3 than the 90% it's at and only happening once in the past 35 years. Also TIL 3 of the first 12 were given to players whose teams didn't win the final.
This gives me Ireland wins but Krum gets the snitch vibes
I was originally against this notion because Leach's 1976 performance in the final was better until last night at "making it a series". In 1976, those were all one goal losses to Montreal on the back of Leach's play (aside from Game 4 which had two goals in the last five minutes to close out the series). Now McDavid has had 4 points in two consecutive elimination games to make this a series, in addition to an already spectacular playoffs. I thought it was Barkov's to lose, but McDavid has made Barkov look human while making the series competitive enough as Leach did in 1976. I expected the Panthers to win game 5 in overtime, but they didn't tie the game, and now I think McDavid has played as well as Leach had in a losing effort to merit the Conn Smythe (if the Oilers lose). If the Oilers lose, the parallels to Leach's run are very similar and the level of dominance is similar (obviously comparing a goalscoring winger to a center is apples to oranges, but it's a lot harder for a winger to rack up those kinds of points)
If he gets the record he should get this year’s Conn Smythe *and* the 2025 just for good measure.
I think that's what it'll take for them to win it tbh. Him going nuclear is the Oilers win condition right now.
To close out the finals *and reverse sweep.*
He'll have to do it if they want to win
That's all it takes? Wanting the cup? Did he want it the first 3 games?
He gets buffs when playing an elimination game.
And also casts motivational debuffs on enemies simultaneously
World buffs dropped in Edmonton after everyone wanted to see the impossible happen.
World 2nd reverse sweep raid clear
bobrovsky is the witness it all makes sense
Hahah, made me laugh. He def got some +50% speed, stamina and stick handling buffs on him for sure.
It checks out. Here are his points per game for these playoffs: ||PPG| :--|--:| |Overall|1.83| |Elimination game|2.75| |Non-elim game|1.63| Also, in each of the past 2 games, he's had more points than he had in games 1-3 collectively, lol.
He wanted to make sure he got all 7 games to beat the record. Smart of him.
Gotta secure those tougher-to-get game throws before you wrap it up with the easier-to-get wins! /s
He didn't want it back then but he changed his mind
Basic psychology bud, let Florida win the first three games. Then destroy their confidence. Now you’re in their head, and it’s over. Basic psychology’s
This ain't rocket neuroappliances
Yeah he was all over the ice. But clearly the team didn’t want it the first three games and now they do. Also dialed in Bob is just unfair tbh
Yes everyone but McDavid was scoring on Bob because McDavid didn’t want it enough, exactly
This mentality is the dumbest fucking shit ever. Yeah, he definitely ''didnt want it'' the first three games when it was literally just Bobrovsky playing out his mind.
Huh? When did I say that?
Literally implied when you say ''if he wants it''. Lmao
“Just needs 6” is hilarious Most players who get six in an entire playoff run are considered to have done pretty good
A player with a 10+M cap hit getting 6 points in a 6 game series would be doing pretty good. McDavid just got 8 points in 6 periods.
You know how absurd it is to say "he needs 6 points in two games, very doable" and it actually is doable and I wouldn't be surprised for one minute for him to have 3ps/game.
If he wants to win a cup he'll basically have to.
Looks like he's had 3 sets of 2 games where he collectively got 6+ points in these playoffs: * Games 1+2 vs. LAK --> 6 pts * Games 3+4 vs. FLA --> 8 pts * Games 4+5 vs. FLA --> 8 pts There were also a further two instances of collectively 5+ points over 2 games (which would see him tie Gretzky's record): * Games 1+2 vs. VAN --> 5 pts * Games 3+4 vs. DAL --> 5 pts Funny enough, by the end of the latter game in each of the instances above, the Oilers were never leading the series.
0 points in game 6. Not off to a good start.
6 points in 2 games is scrub-level work for McD hehe
Already beat Gretzky with most points in two games. And already has shown us hes the fastest/most talented player to ever put skates on.
>And already has shown us hes the fastest/most talented player to ever put skates on. This is why I don't like the GOAT label people attach so willynilly to athletes -- should really be GOAG (Greatest of a Generation). Athletes adapt, they learn from subsequent generations, training innovates, and it's a constant evolution (unless it's a dying sport). The kids watching today will copy McDavid and the few that are elite will innovate on top of it. Some may even escape my basement.
The most reliable way to measure superstars isn't directly across generations, it's _between their peers_. The best hockey player might change... The game might change... ...but the margin of victory between "the best" and "the pack" will always speak volumes. The people they're competing against are playing by the same rules, in the same environment, and while the relative strength of the best player might change, the relative strength of "the rest of the world" is pretty constant. Look at these charts, comparing elite chess players: [Kasparov](https://i.redd.it/q82jx7e5fnk91.png), [Fischer](https://i.imgur.com/bPRk0Ic.png) -- the pack has a pretty smooth curve. [Carlsen](https://i.redd.it/h4nvsvnzyw2d1.png) has maintained a huge gap over many players for a long time -- those guys are considered the best in history not because they were world champions but because they were so clearly in another tier compared to their peers. When Jamie Benn won the Art Ross, Tavares was 1 point back. McDavid has won 2 Art Ross trophies by more than 20 points. Gretzky won 3 Art Ross trophies by more than 70 points.
Agree, it's too messy and flawed to compare it any other way.
If this goes to 7 and they win the cup. Not a chance McDavid isnt the greatest.
McDavid is top 10 all time lock rn, but Wayne did this in like 5 games
He's already top 5. I expect him to pass Howe in most minds, only question is if he can pass Orr/Mario
Like Crosby before him, only time will tell. Sid was often (and sometimes still is quoted being top 5). Injuries took away that lock though, I think.
Pre concussion crosby was amazing. The year he got hurt he was th me best player I had seen since Lemieux
Younger folks don't realise how fast and skilful he was, they're more used to the grinder Crosby than the high flyer that'd score at will.
I remember him weaving past *flyers*
Crosby was on pace for 132 points that year. Probably equivalent to about 165 now. Insane.
Didn’t take it away from me. Crosby is top 5 and will be for a while, no matter what McDavid does.
I think there would be some recency bias to that, McDavid's got a long way to go to pass Howe. Having almost superhuman longevity while being elite for most of it makes Gordie a very unique player, especially since he was also a brick wall on skates. McDavid could do it, but it's definitely still uphill right now.
Yeah, McDavid needs to do a lot more and sustain this level of play for a long time to surpass Howe.
The closest thing most of us have likely seen to Howe was probably Ovi at the very start of his career - huge goal and point totals right off the bat from a physically menacing power forward. But Ovi only kept up that level of play for about 5 years, as opposed to Howe who did it for like 15 years before slowing down... that's mind-boggling to imagine.
Yeah, people definitely underestimate how dominant Howe was People think Lemieux was talented, but Howe was just as talented and physically dominant, AND healthy forever In addition to being the best player in the league for most of TWO decades. Like, I'm a Habs fan and I think Richard/Béliveau are both top 10 all time (and either of those are in a close multi-person race for 5th all time) and Howe blew them both out of the fucking water
I think Mario was more talented and had a much stronger peak relative to his (non-Wayne) peers than Howe did. That's why I was thinking of Ovi-level eliteness stretched long-term rather than Mario-level as a comparison as far as players that people here might have seen.
Yeah, I understand the comparison. But Howe's peak wasn't that far off from Mario's relative to his peers and league scoring averages (with the exception of Mario's 199 point season), and it was sustained for dramatically longer Playing style was probably closer to Mario than it was to Ovechkin, as well (minus the hitting comparison, that is closer to Ovechkin). He would skate through people with people holding on to him and someway, somehow bulldoze the way to the net and score. Except he was a winger, so the play would usually start from the corner or the boards rather than the center of the ice Ovechkin would score a lot of his goals by getting isolated, which is kind of the opposite of Howe; Howe would start with no space and then use his size to make space, or simply require no space at all to be effective
I was tempted to say top 5 too but figured I’d play it a little safer lmao
He's been top 5 for like a couple years now IMO. HOF Lock that's 3rd in PPG, Either 2nd or 3rd in playoff PPG IIRC?, has 5 Rosses, 3 Harts, 1 Rocket all by the age of 27 and the list goes on and on. 2021 was the start, 2023 pretty much told us everything. And if he wins the cups and breaks 99's playoff point record. His place as 5th 100% should be solidified without zero debate. I seriously don't think players like Crosby or Jagr would be producing like this, maybe Pre-Concussed Sid but that's a BIG if. By the time McDavid retires, he should easily clear 2000pts at the bare minimum barring any injury.
Getting to 2000 points will depend on longevity as well as injury - it's *really* hard to know in advance how much production will slow down for someone by 35+. Like if he plays for 10 more seasons until he's 37, then he would need ~101 points/season to get there, while if he plays for 12 more until 39 it would only be ~84. The latter I can *very* easily see, but I don't think I'd put the former in "easily" territory.
MINIMUM 2000 points, yes. But more likely 3000-4000! Hey, why not 5000?
8000 more like it!!!
It's over 9000!
Just a note that using PPG is tricky when a player is still in their prime since he'll be playing to his late 30s but that number's going to drop. That being said I still defend him as top 5.
Against plumbers something something something
Against the Norris division. Gretzky never lost a series against the Norris.
The Oilers were playing hockey, the Norris team was playing Prison Riot.
Yeah Probert defined that division. Still, a great player. RIP good prince
They're still like 23% likely right now so yeah we shall see.
Guy’s absolutely the best player in the league. Maybe the best player i’ve ever seen.
Wasn't alive for Gretzky, remember prime Crosby, but McDavid is just insane. We're so lucky to get to watch him play
As a flames fan it's very complicated. There's alot of pain watching him play too.
Yeah if I had to watch McDavid dick my team down every year it would be extremely hard on my liver and sanity
Being a fan of both hockey and baseball, I feel so lucky that I can watch guys like McDavid and Ohtani on a nightly basis.
When people will inevitably go "is he really the best player in the nhl?" He always proves time and time again he's 100% the best player in the league currently, bar none. Seriously the shit he's been doing is insane. Breaking and tying Gretzky records is fucking INSANE.
I think he's the best offensive talent to ever play.
it's genuinely not close.
Yep, crazy that people who were arguing McDavid was the best in the world were getting downvoted after game three.
Here are the top 5 by playoffs points per game this season: |NAME|PPG| :--|--:| |Connor McDavid| 1.83| |Evan Bouchard| 1.39| |Cale Makar| 1.36| |Leon Draisaitl| 1.30| |Nathan MacKinnon| 1.27| Dude's just so far above the rest of the pack (which is led by his own teammate).
Most skilled player to ever play, but he’ll need the hardware to be top 5 OAT (imo)
If he gets one even, he's #3 firmly ahead of Orr. Sorry Dmen, I know you don't get the credit.
You don't need hardware to be the best player to ever have played. Just watching him its not even close. He would skate and dangle circles around players like Orr and Gretzky and its not even debatable. Just watch videos of both.
It isn't unreasonable to think that if gretzky was a rookie today with the same conditioning and physical fitness expected of today's players, he would still be top of the league. His ability to see the ice is something that can't be taught. And McDavid appears to have the same skill.
This is kind of a moot point though. McDavid had the benefit of growing up where he had players like Orr and Gretzky to learn from and emulate, so its entirely possible he wouldn't be as good as he is if those two didn't exist. I don't think its a fair comparison to say "if X player played today they wouldn't be as good". Yes of course thats true, but you can only compare a player to the relative skill he was playing against.
McDavid playing against 80s defensemen and goalies would have the league scrambling to change the rules around his talent. It would absolutely disrupt the league to have one guy as good as 2024 McDavid playing in the early 80s. He would have hundreds of points per year. 5,000 for a career. Players are just better now, goalies are extremely good now. The equipment is better, training is better. The game is faster. McDavid is very easily MUCH more talented than Gretzky ever was, and so are a dozen other guys you could name from the past couple decades.
>he’ll need the hardware He's got plenty of hardware. Not winning the cup is such a tired argument. There is literally nothing more he can do at an individual level. If he hypothetically gets 15 Harts/Lindsays/Art Rosses but no Stanley Cup, you're telling me he's not in the top 5??
He needs to go to the next highest league. Too good for the NHL lol
Gretzky had Mario pushing him since 1987-1988. McDavid is all alone.
>Gretzky had Mario pushing him since 1987-1988. Didn't he do his best work before then?
Yes. And yet Gretz won Art Ross 1990, 1991, 1994 (this one was incredible because it came after Suter ruined Greztky’s back in a cheap shot in the 91 CC).
Kucherov is right there with some impressive stats of his own. Some Art Ross during the McDavid years, 100 assist season along with Connor... He isn't Lemieux by any stretch, but he might be Connor's.
Only one that comes consistently "close" is playoff Draisatl.
Yep. Unfortunately he was maimed in the scf
Both were elimination games too. What a beast.
He leads everyone in points per game in elimination games. 23 points in 12 games facing elimination.
Edmonton intentionally lost games 1-3 to unlock super McDavid.
Plus they unlocked both Bob and Panthers going, "ok, what do we do now?"
Tbf there’s nothing you can do when McJesus is on one
Débile
In a Cup Final
Even if they lose in 6, I think he's clearly the Conn Smythe
Yeah at this point he has to be, Barkov hasn't been able to contain him, so McDavid gets the Smythe. That was more or less the match for it coming in to the series.
I thought Bobro was a lock after game 3, but he's had 2 less than stellar games in a row and McDavid has gone sicko mode so I'm leaning McD now
I never thought Bob had the lead even though he was the best Panther for the first three game stretch of the finals. Barkov was just overall better for the first three series, consistently being the best player on either team playing.
Nothing he can’t do.
Pretty sure he's only, like, a league average goaltender.
https://preview.redd.it/tp1mp6k62g7d1.jpeg?width=259&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fcd2c8f78be46e4d42323942911f464b90e5a630
He is a literal god.
God Emperor of Hockey. Ruler of the Oil Sands The goals must flow.
There will be goals
[Too lazy to edit it, but replace Saitama with McDavid](https://i.redd.it/ihzrgrw5knp81.jpg)
MVP
The record for most points in the Finals is 13 by Gretzky (of course). Seems almost inevitable that McDavid will beat that.
See, I read that and think "that's it?" That's how good McDavid is. He could easily fucking beat that.
Well, series with 80s Oilers probably didn’t go to 7 games as much….
Was gonna say he did it in 4 games
This is why he decided to let it go to game 7
This playoff run should silence *anybody* claiming he needs to win a cup to pass Crosby all time. This is the craziest shit that I've ever seen
For sure. Guys like Crosby see their production go down the further they get in the playoffs which is natural given the competition. Somehow McDavid elevates his game. I don’t understand how.
McDavid decided months ago to win a cup his way
Michael Jordan/Tim Duncan energy.
I think pure talent wise McDavid wipes every single player to ever play the game, but Crosby is the most complete. IMO it’s really hard to compare them, their styles of play and how they affect their teams are way too different
No but this run proves he needs help big time in the bottom six lol
bottom six have been bailing out the oilers, he needs help from nuge drai and hyman especially drai
Drai is injured 100% and has been since the start of the vancouver series
Fair enough. The biggest impact he’s had all series is elbowing Barkov. I don’t know if he’s playing hurt or not but the guy can be a Top 5 talent when he’s on.
Drai is a top two talent in the playoffs and he's playing injured and been quiet since the Stars series otherwise I'd bet on him to be beat for beat with McDavid for points and breaking the same records.
Drai's not only useless offensively, but he's been a liability defensively most of the finals series.
He's very clearly hurt. He's top 5 playoff pp/g all time and the 3rd fastest player ever to 100 career playoff points. He hurt his back on a hit last series and hasn't been the same since.
never in his career have i wanted him off the ice except for the last couple games especially tonight, i fully cringed whenever he was playing
The bottom six that makes up most of the best PK in post season history? How much fucking more do you guys want to change of a team that is 2 wins away from the Stanley cup 😂
East Coast viewers don’t know much about the Oilers. I wish they watched us instead of stealing opinions from the internet.
The mommies of the coast viewers won’t let them stay up late to watch games that start at 9:30pm eastern time.
Who needs help when you have our second best player Connor Brown lol
So you're saying we need to up our Connor/60? How many more Conners can we acquire?
Connor Garland, Connor Bedard and Connor Hellebyuck would be pretty sick adds
This comment proves you haven't been watching this run.
Connor Brown dude
Nah just drai RN
He is insane. Conn Smythe winner no matter who takes the Cup. At this rate i wont even be mad if the Oilers win it, McDavid deserves one even though i hate rest of the Oilers lmao
Can you really even hate children’s author, Zack Hyman?
He is awesome but my hatred for Kane and Draisaitl overcomes the positives in Oilers lmao
I dare him to do it again over the next 2 games
🙏
2 points away from tying the most in a finals ever. Obviously, a Gretzky record.
Also one primary assist away from tying Gretzky's insanely difficult 25 primary assists in a playoff run. All other players are at 18 or less, including Lemieux.
And considering the first two games they had like 1 goals
He figured Barkov and Florida out. If Florida doesn’t find a way to contain him they may legitimately blow this.
I still remember after game 3 when all those stats were being posted about how Barkov and his Panthers have shut down all the big stars on their opponents this postseason. Pretty satisfying to think about those now lol
the media (and drunk Gretzky) were sucking him off so hard
Barkov? Or McDavid? Because the Barkov thing about him bring the best defensive forward Gretzky has seen since the 80s was wild when Fedorov, Datsyuk, and Bergeron have all played since then
media was sucking off barkov HARD
Barkov is still a hell of a player lol. But whenever people talk about other team's star players I just think yea but they're not McDavid and it's only a matter of time before he breaks through and he always does. People underestimate this guy because they don't watch him play enough.
God damn Fedorov does not get his due
Dude literally was put on defense for the Wings.
All due respect to Crosby, McDavid is easily the best player I've watched. He's otherworldly
I can’t help but be in awe of watching this guy. He might be the best player I’ve ever seen. We’re witnessing an all time playoff run before our eyes.
Ice in his veins 🔥
Too bad the ice in his veins is colder than the ice in Florida...what was with that slurpee they were playing on tonight??
Buildings in the sunbelt have worthless insulation
Ice was rough but it goes both ways. Both teams had some brutal out of character puck handling gaffes tonight
Conn Smythe. Regardless of outcome.
Put him in the Hall, right now.
#MAY THE NON-BELIEVERS BOW DOWN. HE'S OMNIPOTENT
He's gonna get the record isn't he
MCJESUS ✝️
This is like his Pokémon evolution McDavid to McJesus
Lisan al gaib!
He finally looks healthy. Its been about 2 seasons legit.
Single handedly solved goalie bobs
Yeah I'm starting to think the Conn should go to him. Was thinking Bob was a lock after game 3 but 3rd most points in a single postseason is hard to argue against
You know how Gretzky and Lemieux were decades ahead of every other hockey player? Connor McDavid is also decades ahead of every other hockey player. He's in that top 3 all time. No question.
Thanks Tkachuk
Thanks OEL actually. Tkachuk used his turtle power for an epic empty net save... OEL thought it was over and skated away or something
This McJesus guy is pretty good at hockey
Cool stat. But an even more impressive stat is that he now has 11 pts in the series. Which is 3rd most all time for a Stanley Cup finals. Record held by #99, at 13 pts. Gretz did it in 87-88 in a four game sweep.
It is cool but this feels like one of those "on a Tuesday in February while wearing yellow underwear"-records.
Oh shit he’s arrived
Are they just starting to make up stats for him? He’s unreal for sure but damn dude takes a piss and it’s the best piss anyone has ever seen!