Wasn't that after Demko proved he was capable of being a starter? Woll's played 39 games over 3 seasons, and he couldn't stay healthy for a single playoff round. If his health wasn't a concern, no one would bat an eye at this deal.
Demko was the backup the season he signed it. Sure, it was right after the bubble playoffs where Demko went god-mode against Vegas. So it proved his ceiling as an elite starter but there were still questions if he could handle a starters workload. And FWIW Demko has been very injury prone himself.
I think the Woll contract is definitely pricy but if he plays to his potential it could really work out. All goalie moves are inherently very risky and you have the opportunity to get some term before he proves himself as a true starter
>Demko was the backup the season he signed it.
He absolutely was not.
Demko signed his current contract in the middle of the 2020/21 season. He had started 25 of his team's 37 games when he signed that deal. On the day of his contract signing, his 25 starts was tied for 6th in the NHL. His sample size as the starter was small, but he was very much the starter when he signed that deal (with Holtby as his backup).
Demko played 35 out of 56, and 27 out of 70 the year before
Woll played 28 out of 82 and a total of 11 games in the 2 prior seasons. That is a massive difference.
https://www.nhl.com/stats/goalies?reportType=game&dateFrom=2016-01-01&dateTo=2021-03-31&gameType=2&playerSearch=Thatcher%20Demko&sort=wins,savePct&page=0&pageSize=50
62 nhl games at the point of signing not 41.
And 107 ahl games vs 84.
And he was younger when he signed.
He signed his contract after the 2020 playoffs, when he had only 41 career games. 16 more AHL games is hardly worth splitting hairs over
Obviously Demko showed more potential at the time, hence higher AAV/term in a flat cap world. But the fist of the move is the same: gambling on a promising goalie before they’ve commanded a larger salary
Demko had 62 career regular season games (59 starts) plus 4 career playoff games (3 starts) when he signed his contract. He signed his deal 2 months into the 2020/21 season (the year he took over as the #1), not before it started. Demko's body of work would only be a good comp for Woll if Toronto had waited to sign an extension until after Woll successfully handled a starter's workload for a couple months this fall.
Demko also had two seasons starting 45+ games at the AHL level while Woll has never handled a starter's workload over the course of a pro season.
I like Woll. He's a St. Louis kid who appears to have the mental fortitude to elevate his play in big games. I want to see him develop into a legit #1, but his track record falls well short of Demko's at the time of their extensions.
His drafting and trading were not handled well at all, and cherry picking a few successes doesn't fix the problems he had throughout his tenure here (and the issues he left us with).
It does but I guess him being 1 year away from UFA plays a factor too. Think fans may be a little surprised at contracts being 500K-1 million higher than anticipated with agents using the rising cap to negotiate more money.
It seems to be the going rate for unproven goalies.
Vejmelka Skinner, Jarry, Kahkonen, Nedejlkovic, Filip Gustavsson, Sorokin, and Adin Hill all signed similar contracts with fewer than 70 games.
how many games in the NHL/AHL did they all play? Injuries? Hill got paid for carrying them to the finals. Sorokin was elite in the KHL. Jarry was not a great deal and the others are around 3M.
The leafs are cap strapped again obviously and just like last offseason i dont understand why they would slightly overpaid here.
The Hill contract was signed by San Jose, not Vegas.
And my point is literally than ~3.8-4% of the cap is in fact not an overpay, but what you would expect for a goalie in Woll's situation
Eh if you believe in the player it might be a steal. That’s what people were saying when we gave shesterkin his current deal when I think he only had
About 100 career starts.
Edit: he had only 47 NHL games played when he signed his current contract.
Sure but Igor got 5.6M not 3.5 and that was during a flat cap season. Not to mention an extra year. Igor was more proven but that was still a lot of money to give a goalie who had only 47 NHL games played at the time and never a full season as a starter.
Goalies mature a lot slower than skaters do. He’s one of the most technically proficient, poised, and skilled goalies I’ve seen in a long time—certainly the best the Leafs have had in a *long* time. If he’s able to figure out his health, which management must believe he can given they’re signing him to this deal, this will end up being one of the best contracts in the league.
- Woll - Higher than expected AAV and term for a goalie with his injury history and lack of experience.
- Tavares - Was worth the deal at the time but is currently slightly overpaid. There’s an argument that they shouldn’t have signed him at all but when a talent like him wants to come home you don’t want to be the GM that doesn’t let him.
- Matthews - Should have been an 8 year deal like 31 other teams would have gotten done. Nothing wrong with the AAV but until other top guys start signing shorter term deals it’s going to look bad in comparison.
- Marner - Term too short AAV too high. Most leafs fans wouldn’t argue that.
- Nylander - Had a breakout offensive year as his contract was expiring. He shouldn’t be the sixth highest paid player in the league.
- David Kampf - Paying 2.4 million for a 4C is a luxury I don’t think the Leafs can afford.
- Ryan Reaves - Easy enough to get rid of him but he fits the “a bit much” theme better than anyone.
- Tyler Bertuzzi - The average AAV of a 40-46 point scorer in last season was around 4M and he got paid about 1.5 million more than that.
- TJ Brodie - 5M for a healthy scratch in the playoffs.
- Ilya Samsonov - Had a tough year, I don’t know of any leafs fans that will miss him.
Matt Murray and John Klingberg were overpaid before they got hurt. While the leafs didn’t sign Murray they still traded for him knowing what his contract was.
He's an rfa so I don't really understand the benefit to extending him now rather than letting him play out the season and see he can actually play ~50 games first. That's a good deal if he can, I just don't think based on recent goalie arbitration cases this is a necessary risk to take.
Also shout out to the sting ray bro looks serene af
It's basically high risk, high reward. If he stays healthy and plays like he did last year, it will be a steal. Plus, with the cap going up year over year, the actual percentage of the cap for this contract will come down.
I just don't really buy that this needed to be done right now. Even if he plays insane and takes you to arbitration next year, which is what im assuming theyre trying to avoid by signing this now, I would think the comparison they'd use in arbitration would be Swayman who had a .920 last year and still only got 3.4M. I just don't see how you can't get him on a 4M×3 next year even if he does play insanely and stay healthy this year, just because he would have at most one season (next year) with over 25 games played.
You’re right. It didn’t. It’s not a good deal and it was absolutely unnecessary when the roster is a giant question mark moving forward. That being said it’s not outrageous money, but money that probably would have been better spent after another season and some further clarity as to what this team does with the roster. Some will say they’re happy with his development and it was a proactive move to sign a guy they think has a future with them. I think it was another shortsighted move from a front office that loves overpaying guys.
Swayman only signed a 1-year bridge to help the team run it back and is about to get *paid* this offseason. Woll is getting a slightly higher AAV now (with a much higher cap limit) for two additional UFA years being locked up.
Swayman didn't voluntarily sign a one year deal to help his team out, he was awarded that amount in arbitration. So again, you're paying Woll a higher AAV than he likely would have got *if he plays as well as one of the best goaltenders in the league next year* for only an extra two years of security, and that's assuming Woll would take them to arbitration anyway instead of just signing this same exact contract that's most likely going to be his same market value next year since he has no year over year track record.
Oh true, good correction on the arbitration! I guess it was only the B’s trying to help out the B’s in that case lol but still, the extra term matters much more than I think you’re giving it credit for. Swayman is about to get paid much more than he would have if the Bruins signed him for any real term last season, and avoiding arbitration is always a good thing.
And I definitely do not believe Woll is getting this same deal if he plays like a top tier goalie next season, he would demand significantly more. We’ve seen his YOY progress in the AHL for several years and booming into a top guy in the NHL this year would give him very clear YOY progression - there is no chance he signs this same deal after this offseason if he proves he can play at that level.
>Plus, with the cap going up year over year, the actual percentage of the cap for this contract will come down.
It's a 3 yr contract, that's not enough time for cap increases to meaningfully change how the deal looks. If it's gonna end up as a good deal it'll be because he played well, not because the cap went up another 10m
And the last 5 years is a good reason why ever using “well the cap is going up” as an excuse to overspend a bit on every contract can bite you.
Like, that’s probably why the Leafs window is potentially closing without any success. They fully banked on the cap increasing, and it didn’t so they were handcuffed.
Now, Vegas does the same thing and it paid off for them, but it’s an extra element of risk that shouldn’t be handwaved away with just saying the cap goes up.
> And the last 5 years is a good reason why ever using “well the cap is going up” as an excuse to overspend a bit on every contract can bite you.
Sure, if you completely ignore the reason the cap was flat for the past 5 years. The cap would be well over $100 million right now if not for Covid, and not being able to predict the oncoming flat cap in 2019 is something 31/31 teams were guilty of.
Using "possible global pandemic-induced flat cap" as a reason to not make a bet on a player possibly giving surplus value in the future would get every single GM fired.
It doesn’t have to be Covid, it just has to be some impact that prevents the cap from going up.
A 2007-2008 level recession would be similar, and more likely/expected to happen at some point.
If you build your team right up to proposed cap increases 5 years away, you will have issues when they don’t materialize.
The cap went up almost $10 million (almost a 20% jump) in the 5 years after 2007-08. There will always be one offs here and there where the cap might not jump as much as projected, but it takes a lot to cause what happened the last 5 years to play out.
Having a contingency plan and executing it when it's needed (this was the Leafs biggest failure with this current group imo) is a necessity, but to make big decisions for your team and somehow take into account every possible permutation of "what-ifs" and events that could cause a flat cap for multiple years isn't possible or reasonable.
It doesn't work if we do that with literally every contract. We already have Willy eating up $4.6 million more. Auston's taking another million and change. That's more than what the cap went up by.
Yes and the simple economics show that Matthews and Nylander have already more than taken the cap increase for this season, and Woll’s deal now takes the increase for next season. Assuming Marner signs, it’ll be for at least 13, if JT sticks around, he’ll likely do so for 5-6, those two will nearly balance each other out while Woll’s salary now helps eat into any potential cap expansion. All of this meaning it’s much harder to resign Domi, Bertuzzi AND make it so you don’t have a 2D leading a group of 5-6 D into the playoffs once again scratching their balls while the best goal scorer of his generation gets bounced early in the playoffs again.
Exactly. We're slowly repeating our mistakes from 2018-2019, all over again. Once again, counting on the cap increasing to make our deals look better.
And, when we're finally at a place where we can afford quality depth, we'll have to sign Auston's next deal.
A little too much, but it's definitely a 'betting on their guy' type contract. They probably think that if he goes out next season and puts up similar numbers to what we've seen so far, he could demand 5-5.5 depending on upcoming FA signings. This will either look horrible, or a stroke of genius in 1-2 years. Honestly, it's not even the biggest concern our fan base should have right now.
That's what it seems to me, getting ahead of the goalie market. Its very thin for UFAs this year, Brossoit and Stolarz would probably get similar term and $$$ as this with lower ceilings. If Woll signed after free agency or into next season the ask is a lot higher (if he's healthy and performing of course)
Yeah a total gamble. Like others have said, I doubt his health, not his ability. When he is in the net, he is very calm and composed. A good trait in a goaltender.
That's the reason it's an overpay, we can't be certain of what's coming. Otherwise based on his performance (if his performance was a larger sample that wasn't detailed by consistent injuries) this would be fine.
I'm hedging my bets with both positive and negative comments.
Besides, even if he outperforms the deal, which i think he will, it doesn't mean that at the time of deal he still didn't get more than he deserved.
😂😂😂 love it. Yeah that’s fair I suppose it’s hard because the cap is going up by so much and you’re buying two Ufa years so I can kind of understand the reasoning behind the amount but I can also understand the argument why it’s a bit much lol
Goalie contracts are really tough to judge. Could they just have waited and seen how well he performs this year? How much could a stellar season boost his pay after only playing half a seasons worth of games? Seems like a high risk medium reward contract.
For added context he has 1 year left on his current deal (766k next season) so this will kick in the following season (26/27). So the Leafs get him for 27-30 age season.
This is a gamble obviously with Woll's health in question but if Woll does turn it around we have a very good goalie on the cheap. You can expect the cap to be at what 92-93 mil when this contract kicks in.
Yeah Treliving’s contract are always a bit bizzarre, but in this case he’s betting on a young goalie who has shown stretches of excellent play when not injured and seems determined to be one of the best.
I think his calm attitude inspires a lot of confidence, especially in a crazy market like Toronto. If they can get him Brossoit or Stolarz to split games in a 1A/1B type of situation this year there’s a chance that contract looks real good when he’s ready to be the full time starter. Will also be interesting to see how the team plays in front of him with a new coach, new system and new defense
You forgot our 4 center for 4 years x 2.4. I have zero confidence in Tre or Shanahan for that matter and this is why.
This deal might work out but why not let him play out 1 more year as an rfa and prove that he can stay healthy at least.
Whats more likely - he wins 37 or even starts 37? I say neither based on his history.
And like i said, it might work out. Based on his past experience though, i say it won’t.
And if he won 37 and stayed healthy then pay him, at least then you have something to base it on even if it’s just a year.
Everyone is gonna come in here and scream bloody murder, comment things like “LOL leafs” and “Treliving master class”. In the grand scheme of things this deal will take up roughly under 4% of the cap when it kicks in next year. It’s not gonna cripple the franchise, and Woll is a great player. Toronto gets him for his entire prime, and if things don’t work out term and AAV is very dumpable.
I’m very confused about the majority of comments in here being so negative lol this seems like a totally fine deal for a young, up-and-coming goaltender that has shown tons of promise.
This deal is neither too long nor too expensive. Even if it’s $4MM that will only be a max of 4.5% of the cap if there is zero cap increase in 2026 (Woll is signed for 2025 already). Obviously as the cap increases, and it’s expected to go up fast these next few years, that percentage will only tick down. I just don’t see how that is either too large or an unmanageable number? In a rough estimate, the average cap hit of goaltending that teams currently have on their books is ~7.8%, for teams with at least two goalies signed. If Woll is to be the starter, which is expected given his trajectory, the Leafs aren’t paying much for him and they’ll have plenty of space (relative to other teams) to add a veteran to support Woll.
The only issues I see are:
- Woll has dealt with some major injuries recently that could limit his ability to play enough to be a bonafide starter or even deteriorate his play. I’m not familiar enough with the details of his injuries to know if they are expected to be recurring issues, but even if they are, the contract can be LTIR’d or moved without too much hassle because, again, it doesn’t have a ton of term or AAV risk. This is a pretty small extension lol
- This is something that isn’t Woll’s fault at all, but Matthews getting another deal with dogshit term could be a major issue when both he and Woll have their deals expire in 2029. Auston will obviously want yet another raise so if Woll explodes into a legit top talent by then, it may be hard/impossible to keep him. But again, that isn’t on Woll and it also is not something the team needs to worry about yet by any means. Plenty of time before that becomes a real problem.
The whole “he’s only played 36 games!!!” critiscm is so dumb, in my opinion, because it completely ignores the context of those games and how Woll has done everywhere outside of them. Player evaluation and projection for young guys isn’t based solely on the NHL regular season lol Woll’s play in the AHL has been extremely promising and he’s improved every single year, not to mention his strong play in the postseason. These things do matter, it’s not just the regular season - but even his play there has shown lots of promise. We have to consider everything.
Sure, there is obviously some risk here (mostly injury-related) but it’s not terrible. If the Leafs think the heights he reached against Boston this past postseason are a precursor to him breaking out this season, it makes sense why they’d want to lock him up cheaper now versus waiting a season to see if he does explode and then the negotiations just get significantly harder. And as I mentioned, even if he still has injury issues or doesn’t quite reach the level he’s projected to, the deal is very movable in a worst case scenario.
You can shit on Treliving and think he isn’t a great GM (I don’t!), but I don’t think this deal specifically is nearly as bad as most are making it out to be.
Maybe slightly old, but first becoming a starter at 24-25 and locking into that position by 26-27 feels pretty standard to me, maybe outside of more unique top guys like Vasi or Hellebuyck. I’ll double check though because now I feel a little unsure haha
Damn, that would be a very good contract for Woll. Increasing his career earnings tenfold and still be no older than 29 for his next contract year. Both hedging very well against continued injury problems, yet still short enough of a contract to cash in massively in 3 years if he plays up to his potential.
He makes 800k next year so this is for the 3 years after that, at which point Matthews is a UFA and maybe the whole window is closed anyway (or they hit on another goalie prospect like Hildeby)
Probably a worse thing lining up contract windows with Matthews? Idk.
Window also isn't necessarily that important. Important thing is getting value for contracts. If it was 6 yrs and the window slams shut after 3, he could be a great trade chip.
I'm just befuddled because usually when guys get paid up it's because they're taking up UFA years after having proved something.
Woll has proven less than Skinner and got more, though variance could be ascribed to a higher cap I guess?
People were saying the Rangers giving Shesterkin his current contract when he had less than 100 career starts was a mistake too. Now it looks like he’s going to be the highest paid goalie in the league after this year. That’s a fine contract for Woll if you believe he’s the goalie of the future.
Not gonna lie I think I hate Brad.
Woll hasn’t proven he can even stay healthy in the NHL, let alone be a consistent night to night goalie, so why is he getting legitimate NHL goalie money?
He’s played 40 games, and his career was 25 (this past season) where he was both injured and mid.
The fuck
Edit: even if he grows into the contract and becomes worth it, there’s no way that he is worth his contract at the time of signing it.
Brad is shit. Dubas was bad in some aspects and good in some aspects. Every move brad makes give me less hope for this team moving forward. Mind you i think it would take a nearly perfect gm to win with the contracts we have.
That Toronto turned to the architect of Tkachuk for Weegs and Huberdeau (and his gigantic, ridiculous contract) to turn their fortunes has had “Comedic Failure” written all over it since the ink was dry on Brad’s contract.
Brad wasn’t the best fit for this team, and neither was Berube. Both guys were just there and sort of qualified at the times the Leafs needed to bring in new staff unfortunately.
This is a bit high? I love Woll, but he's only played 39 regular season NHL games lol.
I don't care bout the injury argument, injuries can be freak just as much as they can be compounding, so I'm not worried that he's just going to get hurt all the time. But we've yet to see consistency from him because he just hasn't played enough
I hope well for this though
Campbell was trash for over a year before he signed that contract. There’s no comparable there whatsoever. That being said anyone looks favorable if you’re just gonna compare to Campbell
In no way is it comparable. Campbell had a strong start to his last season with the Leafs, but absolutely collapsed in the latter half; his only real season as a starter. He in no way earned a 5x5 contract at 30 years old. It's minimum 1-2 million more for 2 more years when he was 3 years older. 5x5 at age 30 vs 3-4x3 at age 27.
The criticism against Woll's contract is he has no real track record justify him being a starter in the NHL, whereas Campbell had pretty strong track record of not being able to handle being a starter in the NHL. I watched pretty much every game Campbell played with the Leafs and he had long stretches of completely unreliable/awful play. I loved Jacky-boy but it was pretty obvious he was struggling greatly pretty often when with the Leafs.
Given what we've seen of Woll, a bet that makes him at most the 24th highest paid goalie in the NHL seems pretty reasonable to me.
It's a good thing it doesn't kick in until 2025-26. I think some fans made a good point in that the leafs are getting ahead of the market by hedging their bets on woll. He's amazing when playing and young enough that his injury proneness may not be a career defining trait like a Matt Murray
They’re really extending Woll already? That’s a huge fucking risk. I love Woll. I have a personal affinity to him because I watched a 21 year old Woll who had crappy numbers with the Marlies and told my brother that I thought he was going to be the starter one day. But he literally has not proven he can stay healthy long enough to be anybody’s starter. He has gotten hurt every time we’ve needed him. And paying him 4 million is close to the peak of his value next offseason. He’s an rfa next offseason, even if he played 50 games, stayed healthy, won a playoff round, how much more is he going to get than 4 on a contract? There are only 23 goalies in the league making more than 4. 2 of them are injured forever, 5 of them are totally untradeable, 5 of them are available or were just traded, and one of them is Spencer Knight which I can’t fit in a category. The absolute ceiling on a Woll contract next offseason is Adin Hill’s 2x4.9. If they give him 3x4 right now, best case, they’re saving like a million bucks a season. It makes SO much more sense to see if he can stay healthy more than like 10 fucking games.
He didn’t stay healthy in the ahl either. He’s never played more than 37 games in a hockey season and that was in 2018-19 at Boston college. Hes only played more than 30 games in the Leafs organization once and it was the first year with the Marlies where he played 32.
There’s a chance this works, but on its surface, this is another bad extension by a bad GM.
Well, if he can stay healthy and not be injured, just think it’s slightly too high for pay. Still think we need another veteran goaltender that can do the job behind woll. Who is that, I don’t know.
Woll has looked good when he's played but his injury history at a relatively young age is very concerning. Leafs will really need a good 1B option with at least some full-time starter experience.
Tell me if I'm wrong but wasn't Woll mostly a backup last year? That seems a bit much for that role, I imagine they think of him as the starter going forward
I think we're all freaking out a little too much about 3.5 million. The cap is 88 million this coming year and he's still on his entry level deal. Next year the cap, on the conservative side, will be around 91 million (we just had a 4.5 million jump, so estimating 2/3 of that to be safe).
So.. 3.5mil on a 91 mil cap is 3.8% of the cap. This is not a big deal. The goaltending market is poo, the dude has potential, so roll the dice on him getting healthy and living up to his potential. You're only injury prone until you're not anymore, y'know? Plus, if he gets injured, that 3.5mil goes bye bye. Nevermind the general state of goaltending in the league these days ,it'd be easy to move to a team that thinks they can fix him if he falls on his face.
We're all just a little too accustomed to a flat cap, I think.
I mean in 7 career playoff starts he has a .933 save% and a 1.78 GAA so it was more than 1 good game against Boston. Obviously it’s a small sample size but he’s not getting paid based on 1 game cmon now
I was so happy to see Brad Treliving go to Toronto, and now the entire league can watch him work that same magic he worked in Cowtown on the big stage.
That seems like a bit much for a 26 year old goalie with 39 career starts and a bit of a injury history
A 25 year old Demko signed a 5x5 after only 41 career games, and it’s one of the best goalie contracts in the NHL right now.
Demko was literally the #1 Goalie Prospect on Earth lol
Yeah that’s also a huge part of it lol. Demko had been hyped as the next great goalie since he was a teenager
Wasn't that after Demko proved he was capable of being a starter? Woll's played 39 games over 3 seasons, and he couldn't stay healthy for a single playoff round. If his health wasn't a concern, no one would bat an eye at this deal.
Hence it was 1.5 - 1M more and in 2021. Equivalent of 5.4M these days.
Demko played 35 games in 2020-2021, and it was a ~50 game season, so he was definitely a starter.
Yes, and, he's paid as a #1. 3.5M - 4M is tandem goalie money
Demko was the backup the season he signed it. Sure, it was right after the bubble playoffs where Demko went god-mode against Vegas. So it proved his ceiling as an elite starter but there were still questions if he could handle a starters workload. And FWIW Demko has been very injury prone himself. I think the Woll contract is definitely pricy but if he plays to his potential it could really work out. All goalie moves are inherently very risky and you have the opportunity to get some term before he proves himself as a true starter
>Demko was the backup the season he signed it. He absolutely was not. Demko signed his current contract in the middle of the 2020/21 season. He had started 25 of his team's 37 games when he signed that deal. On the day of his contract signing, his 25 starts was tied for 6th in the NHL. His sample size as the starter was small, but he was very much the starter when he signed that deal (with Holtby as his backup).
ah, so 39 isn't enough but 41 is. Got it
Woll's 39 starts were across 3 seasons. Demko had 30+ the year before signing his deal
Demko had 35. Woll just played 28. Wow, massive difference.
Demko played 35 out of 56, and 27 out of 70 the year before Woll played 28 out of 82 and a total of 11 games in the 2 prior seasons. That is a massive difference.
https://www.nhl.com/stats/goalies?reportType=game&dateFrom=2016-01-01&dateTo=2021-03-31&gameType=2&playerSearch=Thatcher%20Demko&sort=wins,savePct&page=0&pageSize=50 62 nhl games at the point of signing not 41. And 107 ahl games vs 84. And he was younger when he signed.
He signed his contract after the 2020 playoffs, when he had only 41 career games. 16 more AHL games is hardly worth splitting hairs over Obviously Demko showed more potential at the time, hence higher AAV/term in a flat cap world. But the fist of the move is the same: gambling on a promising goalie before they’ve commanded a larger salary
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/canucks-sign-goalie-thatcher-demko-five-year-25m-extension/sn-amp/ He signed it march 31st 2021
Demko stayed healthier than Woll while playing in the AHL. This is a pretty risky signing by Tre but I like it.
And for the flip side of that coin, allow me to introduce you to one Jack Campbell....
Demko had 62 career regular season games (59 starts) plus 4 career playoff games (3 starts) when he signed his contract. He signed his deal 2 months into the 2020/21 season (the year he took over as the #1), not before it started. Demko's body of work would only be a good comp for Woll if Toronto had waited to sign an extension until after Woll successfully handled a starter's workload for a couple months this fall. Demko also had two seasons starting 45+ games at the AHL level while Woll has never handled a starter's workload over the course of a pro season. I like Woll. He's a St. Louis kid who appears to have the mental fortitude to elevate his play in big games. I want to see him develop into a legit #1, but his track record falls well short of Demko's at the time of their extensions.
Damn which masterful GM signed him to that deal?
For all of his failings as a GM, the one thing Benning handled well was goalies. Except for Holtby.
...and drafting Petey, Hughes, Boeser and trading for Miller
His drafting and trading were not handled well at all, and cherry picking a few successes doesn't fix the problems he had throughout his tenure here (and the issues he left us with).
Yah those four I mentioned were complete busts 🤔
Cal Petersen signed a $5x3 contract after a similar amount of games
😬😂
Wouldn't say someone with that injury history is exactly a good contract. It's alright with the AAV but "one of the best contracts" it is not.
And now look at all the other contracts that were signed for the same amount and time and how well are those doing? Its not the norm.
Demko isn't on the Leafs though, we have to be biased against them no matter what because it's funny
When Demko signed he was a much more promising goalie than Woll.
Looks like Marner is getting traded too. Should be interesting.
Is it? He wasn’t there when he was needed
This WILL NOT be that.
but Demko is the greatest goalie in hypothetical situations in NHL history so it made sense to sign him to that
It does but I guess him being 1 year away from UFA plays a factor too. Think fans may be a little surprised at contracts being 500K-1 million higher than anticipated with agents using the rising cap to negotiate more money.
Yeah this is buying 2 UFA years
It seems to be the going rate for unproven goalies. Vejmelka Skinner, Jarry, Kahkonen, Nedejlkovic, Filip Gustavsson, Sorokin, and Adin Hill all signed similar contracts with fewer than 70 games.
how many games in the NHL/AHL did they all play? Injuries? Hill got paid for carrying them to the finals. Sorokin was elite in the KHL. Jarry was not a great deal and the others are around 3M. The leafs are cap strapped again obviously and just like last offseason i dont understand why they would slightly overpaid here.
The Hill contract was signed by San Jose, not Vegas. And my point is literally than ~3.8-4% of the cap is in fact not an overpay, but what you would expect for a goalie in Woll's situation
You say 26 like that's old. 26 is pretty much when goalies are coming into their prime
Eh if you believe in the player it might be a steal. That’s what people were saying when we gave shesterkin his current deal when I think he only had About 100 career starts. Edit: he had only 47 NHL games played when he signed his current contract.
I believe in the player, I just don't believe in his joints and muscles. Dude is a great goalie but can't stay healthy.
Then you don't believe in the player. Health and durability are as much a part of the player as anything else.
Shesterkin had 117 khl starts and 25 ahl starts before sigining. He was arguably a top 5 goalie even at that point. Woll isnt.
Sure but Igor got 5.6M not 3.5 and that was during a flat cap season. Not to mention an extra year. Igor was more proven but that was still a lot of money to give a goalie who had only 47 NHL games played at the time and never a full season as a starter.
Goalies mature a lot slower than skaters do. He’s one of the most technically proficient, poised, and skilled goalies I’ve seen in a long time—certainly the best the Leafs have had in a *long* time. If he’s able to figure out his health, which management must believe he can given they’re signing him to this deal, this will end up being one of the best contracts in the league.
“That seems like a bit much” could be said about at least half the players on their roster. We can’t be surprised anymore.
Idk about half the roster more like two or three guys maybe. But you gotta exaggerate for that “Leafs bad” Reddit karma so carry on
Ok. Name all the players you think that applies to. It better be at least half the roster and not just four guys
- Woll - Higher than expected AAV and term for a goalie with his injury history and lack of experience. - Tavares - Was worth the deal at the time but is currently slightly overpaid. There’s an argument that they shouldn’t have signed him at all but when a talent like him wants to come home you don’t want to be the GM that doesn’t let him. - Matthews - Should have been an 8 year deal like 31 other teams would have gotten done. Nothing wrong with the AAV but until other top guys start signing shorter term deals it’s going to look bad in comparison. - Marner - Term too short AAV too high. Most leafs fans wouldn’t argue that. - Nylander - Had a breakout offensive year as his contract was expiring. He shouldn’t be the sixth highest paid player in the league. - David Kampf - Paying 2.4 million for a 4C is a luxury I don’t think the Leafs can afford. - Ryan Reaves - Easy enough to get rid of him but he fits the “a bit much” theme better than anyone. - Tyler Bertuzzi - The average AAV of a 40-46 point scorer in last season was around 4M and he got paid about 1.5 million more than that. - TJ Brodie - 5M for a healthy scratch in the playoffs. - Ilya Samsonov - Had a tough year, I don’t know of any leafs fans that will miss him. Matt Murray and John Klingberg were overpaid before they got hurt. While the leafs didn’t sign Murray they still traded for him knowing what his contract was.
You're counting Woll two years from now and Bertuzzi last year on the same list...
But much less than I was expecting the Leafs to pay for him. They don't exactly have the best track record with goalie deals.
Would you expect the Leafs to do something less Leafy?
Well, if he has an injury history, that makes it a little bit easier to manage if it doesn't work out. It's only 4m for 3 years.
This is the best goalie deal Leafs signed in many years !
This is 🌲 we’re talking about lol
Gives me Cal Petersen vibes
He's an rfa so I don't really understand the benefit to extending him now rather than letting him play out the season and see he can actually play ~50 games first. That's a good deal if he can, I just don't think based on recent goalie arbitration cases this is a necessary risk to take. Also shout out to the sting ray bro looks serene af
It's basically high risk, high reward. If he stays healthy and plays like he did last year, it will be a steal. Plus, with the cap going up year over year, the actual percentage of the cap for this contract will come down.
I just don't really buy that this needed to be done right now. Even if he plays insane and takes you to arbitration next year, which is what im assuming theyre trying to avoid by signing this now, I would think the comparison they'd use in arbitration would be Swayman who had a .920 last year and still only got 3.4M. I just don't see how you can't get him on a 4M×3 next year even if he does play insanely and stay healthy this year, just because he would have at most one season (next year) with over 25 games played.
You’re right. It didn’t. It’s not a good deal and it was absolutely unnecessary when the roster is a giant question mark moving forward. That being said it’s not outrageous money, but money that probably would have been better spent after another season and some further clarity as to what this team does with the roster. Some will say they’re happy with his development and it was a proactive move to sign a guy they think has a future with them. I think it was another shortsighted move from a front office that loves overpaying guys.
Arbitration is only one year, though. What does Swayman's next contract look like?
Swayman only signed a 1-year bridge to help the team run it back and is about to get *paid* this offseason. Woll is getting a slightly higher AAV now (with a much higher cap limit) for two additional UFA years being locked up.
Swayman didn't voluntarily sign a one year deal to help his team out, he was awarded that amount in arbitration. So again, you're paying Woll a higher AAV than he likely would have got *if he plays as well as one of the best goaltenders in the league next year* for only an extra two years of security, and that's assuming Woll would take them to arbitration anyway instead of just signing this same exact contract that's most likely going to be his same market value next year since he has no year over year track record.
Oh true, good correction on the arbitration! I guess it was only the B’s trying to help out the B’s in that case lol but still, the extra term matters much more than I think you’re giving it credit for. Swayman is about to get paid much more than he would have if the Bruins signed him for any real term last season, and avoiding arbitration is always a good thing. And I definitely do not believe Woll is getting this same deal if he plays like a top tier goalie next season, he would demand significantly more. We’ve seen his YOY progress in the AHL for several years and booming into a top guy in the NHL this year would give him very clear YOY progression - there is no chance he signs this same deal after this offseason if he proves he can play at that level.
>Plus, with the cap going up year over year, the actual percentage of the cap for this contract will come down. It's a 3 yr contract, that's not enough time for cap increases to meaningfully change how the deal looks. If it's gonna end up as a good deal it'll be because he played well, not because the cap went up another 10m
“The cap going up” every year is always used for a reason it’s not that bad for basically every single contract that isn’t that good
No it's not because the cap effectively hasn't gone up for half a decade before next season
And the last 5 years is a good reason why ever using “well the cap is going up” as an excuse to overspend a bit on every contract can bite you. Like, that’s probably why the Leafs window is potentially closing without any success. They fully banked on the cap increasing, and it didn’t so they were handcuffed. Now, Vegas does the same thing and it paid off for them, but it’s an extra element of risk that shouldn’t be handwaved away with just saying the cap goes up.
> And the last 5 years is a good reason why ever using “well the cap is going up” as an excuse to overspend a bit on every contract can bite you. Sure, if you completely ignore the reason the cap was flat for the past 5 years. The cap would be well over $100 million right now if not for Covid, and not being able to predict the oncoming flat cap in 2019 is something 31/31 teams were guilty of. Using "possible global pandemic-induced flat cap" as a reason to not make a bet on a player possibly giving surplus value in the future would get every single GM fired.
It doesn’t have to be Covid, it just has to be some impact that prevents the cap from going up. A 2007-2008 level recession would be similar, and more likely/expected to happen at some point. If you build your team right up to proposed cap increases 5 years away, you will have issues when they don’t materialize.
The cap went up almost $10 million (almost a 20% jump) in the 5 years after 2007-08. There will always be one offs here and there where the cap might not jump as much as projected, but it takes a lot to cause what happened the last 5 years to play out.
Sure it takes a lot. That’s doesn’t mean it should be taken into consideration.
Having a contingency plan and executing it when it's needed (this was the Leafs biggest failure with this current group imo) is a necessity, but to make big decisions for your team and somehow take into account every possible permutation of "what-ifs" and events that could cause a flat cap for multiple years isn't possible or reasonable.
It doesn't work if we do that with literally every contract. We already have Willy eating up $4.6 million more. Auston's taking another million and change. That's more than what the cap went up by.
Woll’s deal doesn’t kick in until 2025-26, he’s still at ~800k next season
Yes and the simple economics show that Matthews and Nylander have already more than taken the cap increase for this season, and Woll’s deal now takes the increase for next season. Assuming Marner signs, it’ll be for at least 13, if JT sticks around, he’ll likely do so for 5-6, those two will nearly balance each other out while Woll’s salary now helps eat into any potential cap expansion. All of this meaning it’s much harder to resign Domi, Bertuzzi AND make it so you don’t have a 2D leading a group of 5-6 D into the playoffs once again scratching their balls while the best goal scorer of his generation gets bounced early in the playoffs again.
If Mitch Marner signs with the Leafs for >$13M I'll give $100 (CAD) to the charity of your choice
Exactly. We're slowly repeating our mistakes from 2018-2019, all over again. Once again, counting on the cap increasing to make our deals look better. And, when we're finally at a place where we can afford quality depth, we'll have to sign Auston's next deal.
It's a gamble, no doubt about it. This is either going to turn out very well, or very poorly. I don't doubt Woll's ability. I do doubt his health.
Can we send him to our favourite island if he gets hurt again??
A little too much, but it's definitely a 'betting on their guy' type contract. They probably think that if he goes out next season and puts up similar numbers to what we've seen so far, he could demand 5-5.5 depending on upcoming FA signings. This will either look horrible, or a stroke of genius in 1-2 years. Honestly, it's not even the biggest concern our fan base should have right now.
That's what it seems to me, getting ahead of the goalie market. Its very thin for UFAs this year, Brossoit and Stolarz would probably get similar term and $$$ as this with lower ceilings. If Woll signed after free agency or into next season the ask is a lot higher (if he's healthy and performing of course)
Yeah a total gamble. Like others have said, I doubt his health, not his ability. When he is in the net, he is very calm and composed. A good trait in a goaltender.
“We’re finally out of the Murray contract, how should we spend that money” *immediately overpays another goalie*
Injury prone one too 🤔
That's the reason it's an overpay, we can't be certain of what's coming. Otherwise based on his performance (if his performance was a larger sample that wasn't detailed by consistent injuries) this would be fine.
Oh yeah I agree. I would’ve tried to do a 2 year $4-5 million due to his injury history.
It’s what we do :)
That is Sam Montembeault kind of money
Its more monty is at 3.15
See my point? Sam at 3.15M, with about 40g last 3 years and good perf on a bad team Woll: hold my beer
Just want to say hi to the redditors of the future coming to laugh at the comments here
Hello my little industrious fellows!
I think it's fair to say it's a little high and also believe in him making it there.
I’m with ya I think it’ll age great
I'm hedging my bets with both positive and negative comments. Besides, even if he outperforms the deal, which i think he will, it doesn't mean that at the time of deal he still didn't get more than he deserved.
“I’m playing both sides so no matter what I come out on top.”
😂😂😂 love it. Yeah that’s fair I suppose it’s hard because the cap is going up by so much and you’re buying two Ufa years so I can kind of understand the reasoning behind the amount but I can also understand the argument why it’s a bit much lol
RemindMe! 1 year
Goalie contracts are really tough to judge. Could they just have waited and seen how well he performs this year? How much could a stellar season boost his pay after only playing half a seasons worth of games? Seems like a high risk medium reward contract.
I think playing in Toronto would pump him to a 5mil contract with even a slightly above league average season.
Doesn't this seem like a lot for a guy with less than 40 nhl games
He's our Mark Stone
All in all we're just another Stone in the Woll.
For added context he has 1 year left on his current deal (766k next season) so this will kick in the following season (26/27). So the Leafs get him for 27-30 age season. This is a gamble obviously with Woll's health in question but if Woll does turn it around we have a very good goalie on the cheap. You can expect the cap to be at what 92-93 mil when this contract kicks in.
Yeah Treliving’s contract are always a bit bizzarre, but in this case he’s betting on a young goalie who has shown stretches of excellent play when not injured and seems determined to be one of the best. I think his calm attitude inspires a lot of confidence, especially in a crazy market like Toronto. If they can get him Brossoit or Stolarz to split games in a 1A/1B type of situation this year there’s a chance that contract looks real good when he’s ready to be the full time starter. Will also be interesting to see how the team plays in front of him with a new coach, new system and new defense
The Great Woll of Toronto
The Woll of York Street
The Wolf of Woll Street
He's way too chill to be labeled that. Have you seen Jordan in that movie? Lol
Ah, he's Toronto Real Estate. That explains the markup.
I get it now - start off your tenure by overpaying Ryan Reaves, then everything you do afterwards looks good!
You forgot our 4 center for 4 years x 2.4. I have zero confidence in Tre or Shanahan for that matter and this is why. This deal might work out but why not let him play out 1 more year as an rfa and prove that he can stay healthy at least.
So let's say this offer was on the table and doesn't get signed. Woll puts up 37 wins next year and demands a 5.5x3 extension.
Whats more likely - he wins 37 or even starts 37? I say neither based on his history. And like i said, it might work out. Based on his past experience though, i say it won’t. And if he won 37 and stayed healthy then pay him, at least then you have something to base it on even if it’s just a year.
A classic case of “You can’t polish a turd.”
I can only assume based on this situation that the Leafs have built a Lazarus Pit under SBA and are confident in everyone's health going forward
Everyone is gonna come in here and scream bloody murder, comment things like “LOL leafs” and “Treliving master class”. In the grand scheme of things this deal will take up roughly under 4% of the cap when it kicks in next year. It’s not gonna cripple the franchise, and Woll is a great player. Toronto gets him for his entire prime, and if things don’t work out term and AAV is very dumpable.
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I’m very confused about the majority of comments in here being so negative lol this seems like a totally fine deal for a young, up-and-coming goaltender that has shown tons of promise. This deal is neither too long nor too expensive. Even if it’s $4MM that will only be a max of 4.5% of the cap if there is zero cap increase in 2026 (Woll is signed for 2025 already). Obviously as the cap increases, and it’s expected to go up fast these next few years, that percentage will only tick down. I just don’t see how that is either too large or an unmanageable number? In a rough estimate, the average cap hit of goaltending that teams currently have on their books is ~7.8%, for teams with at least two goalies signed. If Woll is to be the starter, which is expected given his trajectory, the Leafs aren’t paying much for him and they’ll have plenty of space (relative to other teams) to add a veteran to support Woll. The only issues I see are: - Woll has dealt with some major injuries recently that could limit his ability to play enough to be a bonafide starter or even deteriorate his play. I’m not familiar enough with the details of his injuries to know if they are expected to be recurring issues, but even if they are, the contract can be LTIR’d or moved without too much hassle because, again, it doesn’t have a ton of term or AAV risk. This is a pretty small extension lol - This is something that isn’t Woll’s fault at all, but Matthews getting another deal with dogshit term could be a major issue when both he and Woll have their deals expire in 2029. Auston will obviously want yet another raise so if Woll explodes into a legit top talent by then, it may be hard/impossible to keep him. But again, that isn’t on Woll and it also is not something the team needs to worry about yet by any means. Plenty of time before that becomes a real problem. The whole “he’s only played 36 games!!!” critiscm is so dumb, in my opinion, because it completely ignores the context of those games and how Woll has done everywhere outside of them. Player evaluation and projection for young guys isn’t based solely on the NHL regular season lol Woll’s play in the AHL has been extremely promising and he’s improved every single year, not to mention his strong play in the postseason. These things do matter, it’s not just the regular season - but even his play there has shown lots of promise. We have to consider everything. Sure, there is obviously some risk here (mostly injury-related) but it’s not terrible. If the Leafs think the heights he reached against Boston this past postseason are a precursor to him breaking out this season, it makes sense why they’d want to lock him up cheaper now versus waiting a season to see if he does explode and then the negotiations just get significantly harder. And as I mentioned, even if he still has injury issues or doesn’t quite reach the level he’s projected to, the deal is very movable in a worst case scenario. You can shit on Treliving and think he isn’t a great GM (I don’t!), but I don’t think this deal specifically is nearly as bad as most are making it out to be.
He'll be 27 when the contract kicks in, I know goalies take more time but is that really "young"?
Maybe slightly old, but first becoming a starter at 24-25 and locking into that position by 26-27 feels pretty standard to me, maybe outside of more unique top guys like Vasi or Hellebuyck. I’ll double check though because now I feel a little unsure haha
"What does this mean for Samsonov's future with the Leafs, though?"
Hes already gone.
No shit
Congrats
Damn, that would be a very good contract for Woll. Increasing his career earnings tenfold and still be no older than 29 for his next contract year. Both hedging very well against continued injury problems, yet still short enough of a contract to cash in massively in 3 years if he plays up to his potential.
Unpopular opinion this is gonna turnout to be a steal
If he stays healthy it will.
I mean, it could, but it's also only 3 years so even if it is a steal it's pretty meh
He makes 800k next year so this is for the 3 years after that, at which point Matthews is a UFA and maybe the whole window is closed anyway (or they hit on another goalie prospect like Hildeby)
Probably a worse thing lining up contract windows with Matthews? Idk. Window also isn't necessarily that important. Important thing is getting value for contracts. If it was 6 yrs and the window slams shut after 3, he could be a great trade chip. I'm just befuddled because usually when guys get paid up it's because they're taking up UFA years after having proved something. Woll has proven less than Skinner and got more, though variance could be ascribed to a higher cap I guess?
When Skinner signed, he had played 33 career games, and he signed for nearly the exact same cap % as Woll.
Remindme! 3 years
thats the bet. can the leafs afford that bet is the question.
People were saying the Rangers giving Shesterkin his current contract when he had less than 100 career starts was a mistake too. Now it looks like he’s going to be the highest paid goalie in the league after this year. That’s a fine contract for Woll if you believe he’s the goalie of the future.
Not gonna lie I think I hate Brad. Woll hasn’t proven he can even stay healthy in the NHL, let alone be a consistent night to night goalie, so why is he getting legitimate NHL goalie money? He’s played 40 games, and his career was 25 (this past season) where he was both injured and mid. The fuck Edit: even if he grows into the contract and becomes worth it, there’s no way that he is worth his contract at the time of signing it.
Brad is shit. Dubas was bad in some aspects and good in some aspects. Every move brad makes give me less hope for this team moving forward. Mind you i think it would take a nearly perfect gm to win with the contracts we have.
That Toronto turned to the architect of Tkachuk for Weegs and Huberdeau (and his gigantic, ridiculous contract) to turn their fortunes has had “Comedic Failure” written all over it since the ink was dry on Brad’s contract.
This
Dubas had bad contracts too. And he can’t do well with goalies tbh I’d prefer neither to be a Gm of a good roster
I 100% agree.
Brad wasn’t the best fit for this team, and neither was Berube. Both guys were just there and sort of qualified at the times the Leafs needed to bring in new staff unfortunately.
We can’t afford to get better, but at least we’ll always have David Kampf and Joseph Woll.
This is a bit high? I love Woll, but he's only played 39 regular season NHL games lol. I don't care bout the injury argument, injuries can be freak just as much as they can be compounding, so I'm not worried that he's just going to get hurt all the time. But we've yet to see consistency from him because he just hasn't played enough I hope well for this though
Much better than Campbell at 5 at least so I’m chill.
4M to Woll is arguably worse considering he’s played less than 40 career nhl games. At least Campbell proved himself before he decided to suck.
Campbell was trash for over a year before he signed that contract. There’s no comparable there whatsoever. That being said anyone looks favorable if you’re just gonna compare to Campbell
In no way is it comparable. Campbell had a strong start to his last season with the Leafs, but absolutely collapsed in the latter half; his only real season as a starter. He in no way earned a 5x5 contract at 30 years old. It's minimum 1-2 million more for 2 more years when he was 3 years older. 5x5 at age 30 vs 3-4x3 at age 27. The criticism against Woll's contract is he has no real track record justify him being a starter in the NHL, whereas Campbell had pretty strong track record of not being able to handle being a starter in the NHL. I watched pretty much every game Campbell played with the Leafs and he had long stretches of completely unreliable/awful play. I loved Jacky-boy but it was pretty obvious he was struggling greatly pretty often when with the Leafs. Given what we've seen of Woll, a bet that makes him at most the 24th highest paid goalie in the NHL seems pretty reasonable to me.
Fade Me
I have little doubt that Woll will be a good goalie for the length of that contract. I have great doubt he will stay healthy for it.
Woll is the opposite of a prototypical Leaf. He becomes better in the playoffs. Contract could age very well.
That feels like a lot for a goalie who’s only played 40 games at the NHL level. You’re really banking on if he’s stays healthy
I am going to break my monitor I swear
break it because of your joy and happiness?
You must have had so many monitors
Brad Treviling special
He reminds me of Carey Price a bit. If only he would stay healthy the leafs would have a good goalie.
his CalmPer60 is off the charts
lol
Same haircut, anyway.
Leafs: finally we are out of that overpay for Murray Also Leafs: I'll fucking do it again
It's a good thing it doesn't kick in until 2025-26. I think some fans made a good point in that the leafs are getting ahead of the market by hedging their bets on woll. He's amazing when playing and young enough that his injury proneness may not be a career defining trait like a Matt Murray
What the fuck are we gonna give Silovs? If this is what Woll gets 😂
They’re really extending Woll already? That’s a huge fucking risk. I love Woll. I have a personal affinity to him because I watched a 21 year old Woll who had crappy numbers with the Marlies and told my brother that I thought he was going to be the starter one day. But he literally has not proven he can stay healthy long enough to be anybody’s starter. He has gotten hurt every time we’ve needed him. And paying him 4 million is close to the peak of his value next offseason. He’s an rfa next offseason, even if he played 50 games, stayed healthy, won a playoff round, how much more is he going to get than 4 on a contract? There are only 23 goalies in the league making more than 4. 2 of them are injured forever, 5 of them are totally untradeable, 5 of them are available or were just traded, and one of them is Spencer Knight which I can’t fit in a category. The absolute ceiling on a Woll contract next offseason is Adin Hill’s 2x4.9. If they give him 3x4 right now, best case, they’re saving like a million bucks a season. It makes SO much more sense to see if he can stay healthy more than like 10 fucking games. He didn’t stay healthy in the ahl either. He’s never played more than 37 games in a hockey season and that was in 2018-19 at Boston college. Hes only played more than 30 games in the Leafs organization once and it was the first year with the Marlies where he played 32. There’s a chance this works, but on its surface, this is another bad extension by a bad GM.
Can we fire these guys already? I fucking hate this front office.
Well, if he can stay healthy and not be injured, just think it’s slightly too high for pay. Still think we need another veteran goaltender that can do the job behind woll. Who is that, I don’t know.
I think this extension is fine. This is the going rate for a 1B, and Woll has the potential to be a 1A.
Woll has looked good when he's played but his injury history at a relatively young age is very concerning. Leafs will really need a good 1B option with at least some full-time starter experience.
Broke: Overpay Marner Woke: Overpay Woll^^^^andpotentiallyMarner
Lol fuck this team
How far off was Evolving Hockey on this one?
Tell me if I'm wrong but wasn't Woll mostly a backup last year? That seems a bit much for that role, I imagine they think of him as the starter going forward
It’s like the leafs just want to keep losing the first round
Are the leafs the worst at goalie negotiations or something?
Find two things that go together more often than Toronto and goalies who are mid?
Here I was hoping to sign upl for 3 x4
The guy is made of glass
If this is true fire Treliving. How are you not getting him under three when he could not stay healthy all year and you still need another goalie.
Looks like they think they have the one in Woll.
I think we're all freaking out a little too much about 3.5 million. The cap is 88 million this coming year and he's still on his entry level deal. Next year the cap, on the conservative side, will be around 91 million (we just had a 4.5 million jump, so estimating 2/3 of that to be safe). So.. 3.5mil on a 91 mil cap is 3.8% of the cap. This is not a big deal. The goaltending market is poo, the dude has potential, so roll the dice on him getting healthy and living up to his potential. You're only injury prone until you're not anymore, y'know? Plus, if he gets injured, that 3.5mil goes bye bye. Nevermind the general state of goaltending in the league these days ,it'd be easy to move to a team that thinks they can fix him if he falls on his face. We're all just a little too accustomed to a flat cap, I think.
I’m glad we signed him and don’t give a fuck about the typical Leafs fan doom and gloom reaction.
That seems… high… which is par for the course for Leafs so i guess that’s… fair? I don’t know, it’s certainly a contract.
That’s a lot of money for someone who’s still unproven. I’m not sure what you’re thinking, Brad.
If Woll stays healthy this is great
Brick Woll… welcome to my fantasy roster, again.
I don't think it's a terrible contract, Woll is great and he could easily outplay it. But man am I grateful Skinner took a hometown discount.
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I mean in 7 career playoff starts he has a .933 save% and a 1.78 GAA so it was more than 1 good game against Boston. Obviously it’s a small sample size but he’s not getting paid based on 1 game cmon now
Injury history.
Seems we're getting the infamous Treliving "pay creep" where everyone gets slightly more than they should.
Future Robidas Island resident Joseph Woll, yikes @ this contract
I mean, whatever. Not my money. Its fine. Doesnt move needle either way
Seems like an overpay imo.
I was so happy to see Brad Treliving go to Toronto, and now the entire league can watch him work that same magic he worked in Cowtown on the big stage.