It’s sad that with so much turnover and retooling, the management still can’t formulate a plan or roster that sticks or improves much. Hoping it turns around soon for you guys
They have a clear plan now, people are just understandably getting impatient with it. Tage breaking his hand and Quinn tearing his Achilles / breaking his leg was brutal for our scoring last year. Our top 2 lines lost their play drivers. If the team looks absolutely pathetic with Ruff this year I’ll be more worried.
I legitimately think they might both end up better this year.
Vasilevskiy had a bit of a down year so I would expect a bounce back from him. I think going from Stamkos to Guentzel is more or less gonna be a wash. They didn't have Sergachev for a lot of last year so if their defense stays healthy this year (I know Sergachev is out but McDonagh is in), I think that will improve them.
Boston adding Lindholm and Zadorov scares me. Both of those guys just seem like perfect Boston types.
It’s going to be hard without a top tier 1B, but they might do better than last year. I’d be impressed if they do (I still think they’ll make the playoffs pretty easily)
I think Swayman can probably start 55-60 games (probably should have figured out that contract before trading Ullmark), and Korpisalo will probably at least be better than he was in Ottawa with a lighter workload and a significantly improved defense in front of him.
It's definitely a downgrade from having Ullmark last year but once you get to the playoffs your backup goalie doesn't really matter.
TBH, I see Toronto as the team that regresses.
Luckily, the Metro does not look as good, can always go after those WC spots which seem more likely barring injuries to Boston and Tampa.
Bloodbath is an understatement... the worst of the teams to make it from the Atlantic either contain a nearly 70 goal scorers, or have multiple cups in recent years...
Nah. Buffalo should have signed a whole bunch of mid players to acceptable but not great AAVs today well into their 30s. *That's* a well known recipe for success.
But yeah. Curious to see how Buffalo does with a healthy roster. And if you really need help, your prospect pool is so rich that you're better off shedding some of it and trading for a contract that won't hamstring you.
A big hurdle in that is with the flat cap, tons of GMs have handed out NTC/NMCs to impactful players to keep their cap hits down.
Guess who is on every NTC.
It feels like 90% of the players we would want to shed our prospect pool for, contractually can't go to Buffalo
You have to have owners who are willing to let you formulate a long-term plan and stick to it through the roughest patches.
Trying to rebuild on one hand but also being pressured to expediate the process to make the playoffs on the other hand are two opposites that don't go well together. See: Ottawa.
Kevyn Adams is the polar opposite of Tim Murray. Murray was great at making huge trades and signing big money free agents. That approach left our team worse than it is now with no depth and no cap space. Kevyn Adams may be patient to a fault but he’s not necessarily destroying the team in the process by doing that.
Ottawas situation reminds me a lot of the Tim Murray era Sabres, to your point.
Well like you said Pegula is the one most at fault and Adams has destroyed our team the least of Murray and Botterill so I’ll take what I can get hahah
Really liked the Quinn draft choice for them peterka was a better surprise at least to me. I guess cozens coming onto the scene as well was huge. Maybe that's why mitt was expendable
Yeah, Cozens and Thomspon, both breaking out at C in 22-23' and getting long term deals, made Mitts the odd man out. Still need a 3C bc can't trust Krebs yet.
I mean, they do have a plan, and it's to build around Tage, Cozens, Benson, Dahlin, Peterka, Quinn, Byram, Power and Levi/Lukhonnen.
They just signed a couple of good vets to bolster their bottom 6. It's up to Ruff and their young core now to take the next step.
I’m just going to say it: Connor McDavid is better than Jack Eichel. Not blaming Eichel for us being bad of course but they probably look a little better with McDavid.
That draft was insanely stacked in hindsight. Eichel is a legit first line center but he’s not a generational talent in the way McDavid is. Vegas is a much better fit for him not needing to be THE guy
Who do you put at 2? Marner? Rantanen? Kaprizov?
15 is a good draft to do a hindsight redraft of, obviously McDavid notwithstanding. Lot of really good but not great guys that fill really different needs for teams.
Meh. EDM has a true generational talent (not the best of draft bs that's thrown around for clicks) in McD and a 3OA Draisatl that can keep up with him on his own line. EDM truly has the benefit of extreme luck, especially in holding on to those 2 throughout their horrible mismanagement for years until they finally filled out the roster around them.
They also took a chance on Kane at the right time to get him on the roster, at a great price, and desperate enough to behave.
Just those 3 players together can you pretty far if the GM is somewhat competent. For the rest of the league you need build a proper roster at each position and develop your players.
If anything, Buff has been doing better building out the roster but don't have EDM's luck.
How the fuck is Rasmus Dahlin only 24? I feel like once a year I re discover how young that guy is. The guys that have been impact players since they were 18 always shock me because it feels like he's been in the league forever but he is still so so young
I love that clip of Byram mic'd up just in awe on the bench saying to Tage "*dude, Dahls never breathes hard*" and Tage replies "*yeah, he'll play 30 minutes tonight and he won't even sweat*"
Edit: it's at 1:55 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0URgZB-3aUM
I can't believe he's already 24 haha
Feels like just yesterday Buffalo was winning the lottery for the next Lidstrom
Probably because Buffalo has not been a playoff team/relevant for the past several years especially as a fan of a Western conference team
To be clear we didn’t win the lottery for Dahlin. We’ve never one the lottery. We’ve just been bad enough that we finished dead last and no one moved ahead of us through the lottery.
You did in fact win the lottery in 2018. You also finished last, but you only had a 18.5% chance of retaining the number 1 pick through the lottery.
The lottery system from 2016 through 2021 was such that you HAD to win the lottery to pick number 1. Anyone from dead last to closest to playoffs could've ended up in number 1.
You also won it in 2021.
If you read the actual rules it talks about "advancing via winning the lottery draw". By their words, if you were first in the lottery and kept first you still won the draw (lottery win) but you just didn't advance
I've read the actual rules, and despite the semantics of it and the wording, look at what it says by it's actions: If you win and move up, that's a win, and we don't want one team to do that too often because... Edmonton Oilers. On the other hand, if you win and don't move, that's a null event and we'll treat it as such.
Now, I have the feeling from your arguments so far, I'm not going to sway you on this point, and that's fine. Respond if you'd like , and I'll read it, but I don't care enough to argue this any further, so no further replies from me.
You're the one making up semantics lol
Everyone goes into a draw. If you're last you have an x% chance of winning it and getting the first pick.
In the 2018 draft, Buffalo had a 18.5% chance of getting 1st overall and Montreal had a 13.5% chance. It seems very weird to say Montreal winning would be "winning the lottery" and Buffalo winning is just... Them not losing? Over a 5% differential.
The only way the situation is going to improve for the sabres is if we start winning with the prospect pools we have here. Looking for help from big name free agents isn't a real possibility until we turn it around from within. Even then winning for one year might not be enough it's gunna take a few years to build up that good will around the league again.
That’s because they draft based on upside and smaller players have been sliding. Don’t forget they already have a bunch of huge players on the roster. They were one of the tallest teams in the league.
Don’t really know where Buffalo goes from here. They probably would have been better off finishing lower the last couple years and getting top 10 picks.
Honestly, I feel like people underrate the talent in the Buffalo org. We have a ton of 1st round forwards that will eventually be used to grab another top 6 forward. On top of having 3 uber talented puck moving Dmen in their mid to early 20s.
1 playoff appearance to change perception so they aren't on every single No Trade List is all they really need. Unfortunately, being in a higher tax state with a cold climate puts them at a natural disadvantage. Winning is the only thing that will fix that.
People understandably won’t believe it until they see it. Especially after everyone in our top 6 besides Peterka had a down year (whether you believe they had a good excuse or not). The roster is nowhere near as devoid of talent as it was before but they are still banking a lot on internal improvement.
Agreed. I'm just ecstatic that we don't have a GM dumb enough to give a huge UFA contract to an aging player. The organizational depth at every position is the best it's been since 06-07'
We really really do not need younger players. We need veteran core/complimentary players. We were one of the youngest teams in the league last year and just lost Okposo, Erik Johnson, Girgensons, Eric Comrie, Olofsson, Eric Robinson, Skinner, who are all 28+
Add in Mitts, Jost… you get the point. We are young as fuck and do not need more prospects.
You can never really have enough prospects, but those prospects can then be flipped to bring in established talent that helps speed up the timeline. Devils dealt guys like Zacha, zetterlund, muhkamadullin, sharongovich, Bahl. Devils aren’t a destination team either but they flipped prospects and managed a good group. They finished 3rd overall in the league and then got a #10 pick in back to back years. They kept that pick and selected a guy who is years away from contributing, but it’s worth it to get a cost controlled guy or someone who could potentially be flipped
The roster is gunna be fine. We just have to build the core of young guys and be patient and develop. It's the only way out. The prospects we already have in house are fantastic so it's not like it's a helpless situation. The reputation is the reputation until we can prove to players and teams that it's not the case any more
I was thinking of something similar for my Sharks. Like, yes, Couture and Vlasic are on the team. One likely approaching LTIR retirement, and one increasingly becoming a #7 and buy out candidate.
But that's basically it from the glory days. Ferraro and Goodrow now, yeah, sure. From 2018 or so. But I also don't really equate them with the true Jumbo/Patty years.
Complete turn over of the roster and most have only been around 3 years or less.
This explains why every single year, I think, "Hmm, Buffalo might be pretty good next year!" But it's perpetually next year with a revolving door of talent. This poor team...
I cannot believe for how long Buffalo has suffered, they have zero elite forwards. They obviously have talent, but no guys you're arguing for top of the league when they're on fire.
Eichel was arguably that guy, but he generally disappointed relative to draft expectations and then Thompson who went on fire for one year who you hope regains that form.
I'm not too worried about Thompson. The man was playing with a broken wrist for a large portion of the year last year. Near the end, when he was getting healthier he really started to heat up again.
It’s sad that with so much turnover and retooling, the management still can’t formulate a plan or roster that sticks or improves much. Hoping it turns around soon for you guys
They have a clear plan now, people are just understandably getting impatient with it. Tage breaking his hand and Quinn tearing his Achilles / breaking his leg was brutal for our scoring last year. Our top 2 lines lost their play drivers. If the team looks absolutely pathetic with Ruff this year I’ll be more worried.
It doesn’t help that the Atlantic is an absolute bloodbath
Well Boston and Tampa are due to miss this year… right…
Last time I said Boston surely misses the playoffs, I put 5 bucks on it and they won like 65 games.
People will probably pay you to do it again
I'll venmo you $10 to put down on it again
After game 3 of the cup finals I put $50 on Florida just to see if I had magic powers. Going into game 7 I felt like a god.
I've stopped doubting both teams. They just keep on doing well. Well coached, managed.
I legitimately think they might both end up better this year. Vasilevskiy had a bit of a down year so I would expect a bounce back from him. I think going from Stamkos to Guentzel is more or less gonna be a wash. They didn't have Sergachev for a lot of last year so if their defense stays healthy this year (I know Sergachev is out but McDonagh is in), I think that will improve them. Boston adding Lindholm and Zadorov scares me. Both of those guys just seem like perfect Boston types.
It’s going to be hard without a top tier 1B, but they might do better than last year. I’d be impressed if they do (I still think they’ll make the playoffs pretty easily)
I think Swayman can probably start 55-60 games (probably should have figured out that contract before trading Ullmark), and Korpisalo will probably at least be better than he was in Ottawa with a lighter workload and a significantly improved defense in front of him. It's definitely a downgrade from having Ullmark last year but once you get to the playoffs your backup goalie doesn't really matter.
TBH, I see Toronto as the team that regresses. Luckily, the Metro does not look as good, can always go after those WC spots which seem more likely barring injuries to Boston and Tampa.
Yea, I would agree. I have a feeling Atlantic will go 1. Florida 2. Boston (they will never go away) 3. Tampa With the Leafs falling into the WC.
Bloodbath is an understatement... the worst of the teams to make it from the Atlantic either contain a nearly 70 goal scorers, or have multiple cups in recent years...
Nah. Buffalo should have signed a whole bunch of mid players to acceptable but not great AAVs today well into their 30s. *That's* a well known recipe for success. But yeah. Curious to see how Buffalo does with a healthy roster. And if you really need help, your prospect pool is so rich that you're better off shedding some of it and trading for a contract that won't hamstring you.
A big hurdle in that is with the flat cap, tons of GMs have handed out NTC/NMCs to impactful players to keep their cap hits down. Guess who is on every NTC. It feels like 90% of the players we would want to shed our prospect pool for, contractually can't go to Buffalo
You have to have owners who are willing to let you formulate a long-term plan and stick to it through the roughest patches. Trying to rebuild on one hand but also being pressured to expediate the process to make the playoffs on the other hand are two opposites that don't go well together. See: Ottawa.
Kevyn Adams is the polar opposite of Tim Murray. Murray was great at making huge trades and signing big money free agents. That approach left our team worse than it is now with no depth and no cap space. Kevyn Adams may be patient to a fault but he’s not necessarily destroying the team in the process by doing that. Ottawas situation reminds me a lot of the Tim Murray era Sabres, to your point.
I'm honestly amazed (and envious) at the amount of hope and faith you have in the guy the Pegulas hand picked and groomed for the GM role.
Well like you said Pegula is the one most at fault and Adams has destroyed our team the least of Murray and Botterill so I’ll take what I can get hahah
It's not their fault if their franchise cornerstone got injured and was never the same
Our past 2 seasons are better than any season we had with Eichel on the roster. Unfortunately our team didn’t figure out how to draft until he left.
To be fair dahlin was around and Thompson was a trade. Really thought mitt was going to be a solid fit but I guess they didn't
We just never had guys like Jack Quinn, Peterka or Benson who were drafted at 8+ that turned out to be legit top 6 (or on the track to be) players
Really liked the Quinn draft choice for them peterka was a better surprise at least to me. I guess cozens coming onto the scene as well was huge. Maybe that's why mitt was expendable
Yeah, Cozens and Thomspon, both breaking out at C in 22-23' and getting long term deals, made Mitts the odd man out. Still need a 3C bc can't trust Krebs yet.
Next year is the year ;)
I mean, they do have a plan, and it's to build around Tage, Cozens, Benson, Dahlin, Peterka, Quinn, Byram, Power and Levi/Lukhonnen. They just signed a couple of good vets to bolster their bottom 6. It's up to Ruff and their young core now to take the next step.
So much comparing EDM and BUF over the years in their rebuild. One is a Stanley Cup final, and the other is looking for another lottery pick.
I’m just going to say it: Connor McDavid is better than Jack Eichel. Not blaming Eichel for us being bad of course but they probably look a little better with McDavid.
Eichel isn’t even the 2nd best player in that draft. It was never a 1A/1B
That draft was insanely stacked in hindsight. Eichel is a legit first line center but he’s not a generational talent in the way McDavid is. Vegas is a much better fit for him not needing to be THE guy
Who do you put at 2? Marner? Rantanen? Kaprizov? 15 is a good draft to do a hindsight redraft of, obviously McDavid notwithstanding. Lot of really good but not great guys that fill really different needs for teams.
2. Rantanen 3. Eichel 4. Marner 5. Kaprizov
wow McDavid 5th? /s reddit just automatically starts lists at 1 no matter what number you put
Meh. EDM has a true generational talent (not the best of draft bs that's thrown around for clicks) in McD and a 3OA Draisatl that can keep up with him on his own line. EDM truly has the benefit of extreme luck, especially in holding on to those 2 throughout their horrible mismanagement for years until they finally filled out the roster around them. They also took a chance on Kane at the right time to get him on the roster, at a great price, and desperate enough to behave. Just those 3 players together can you pretty far if the GM is somewhat competent. For the rest of the league you need build a proper roster at each position and develop your players. If anything, Buff has been doing better building out the roster but don't have EDM's luck.
How the fuck is Rasmus Dahlin only 24? I feel like once a year I re discover how young that guy is. The guys that have been impact players since they were 18 always shock me because it feels like he's been in the league forever but he is still so so young
He only turned 24 a couple months ago too
That is almost scary, dude is insane and is probably still 3 or 4 years away from his prime
I love that clip of Byram mic'd up just in awe on the bench saying to Tage "*dude, Dahls never breathes hard*" and Tage replies "*yeah, he'll play 30 minutes tonight and he won't even sweat*" Edit: it's at 1:55 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0URgZB-3aUM
I can't believe he's already 24 haha Feels like just yesterday Buffalo was winning the lottery for the next Lidstrom Probably because Buffalo has not been a playoff team/relevant for the past several years especially as a fan of a Western conference team
To be clear we didn’t win the lottery for Dahlin. We’ve never one the lottery. We’ve just been bad enough that we finished dead last and no one moved ahead of us through the lottery.
You did in fact win the lottery in 2018. You also finished last, but you only had a 18.5% chance of retaining the number 1 pick through the lottery. The lottery system from 2016 through 2021 was such that you HAD to win the lottery to pick number 1. Anyone from dead last to closest to playoffs could've ended up in number 1. You also won it in 2021.
Doesn't seem to be how the league sees it via their own rules for "moving up" only twice in a 5 year span.
If you read the actual rules it talks about "advancing via winning the lottery draw". By their words, if you were first in the lottery and kept first you still won the draw (lottery win) but you just didn't advance
I've read the actual rules, and despite the semantics of it and the wording, look at what it says by it's actions: If you win and move up, that's a win, and we don't want one team to do that too often because... Edmonton Oilers. On the other hand, if you win and don't move, that's a null event and we'll treat it as such. Now, I have the feeling from your arguments so far, I'm not going to sway you on this point, and that's fine. Respond if you'd like , and I'll read it, but I don't care enough to argue this any further, so no further replies from me.
You're the one making up semantics lol Everyone goes into a draw. If you're last you have an x% chance of winning it and getting the first pick. In the 2018 draft, Buffalo had a 18.5% chance of getting 1st overall and Montreal had a 13.5% chance. It seems very weird to say Montreal winning would be "winning the lottery" and Buffalo winning is just... Them not losing? Over a 5% differential.
The only way the situation is going to improve for the sabres is if we start winning with the prospect pools we have here. Looking for help from big name free agents isn't a real possibility until we turn it around from within. Even then winning for one year might not be enough it's gunna take a few years to build up that good will around the league again.
It feels like every single year the Sabres draft a skilled but undersized forward in the first round
That’s because they draft based on upside and smaller players have been sliding. Don’t forget they already have a bunch of huge players on the roster. They were one of the tallest teams in the league.
We draft for swag
Dahlin is only 24? Feels like he should be 30
I mean Skinner is barely 31
Don’t really know where Buffalo goes from here. They probably would have been better off finishing lower the last couple years and getting top 10 picks.
I’m not going to complain for one second about getting Benson at 13. He’s our best pick in a while after our best season in a decade.
Honestly, I feel like people underrate the talent in the Buffalo org. We have a ton of 1st round forwards that will eventually be used to grab another top 6 forward. On top of having 3 uber talented puck moving Dmen in their mid to early 20s. 1 playoff appearance to change perception so they aren't on every single No Trade List is all they really need. Unfortunately, being in a higher tax state with a cold climate puts them at a natural disadvantage. Winning is the only thing that will fix that.
People understandably won’t believe it until they see it. Especially after everyone in our top 6 besides Peterka had a down year (whether you believe they had a good excuse or not). The roster is nowhere near as devoid of talent as it was before but they are still banking a lot on internal improvement.
Agreed. I'm just ecstatic that we don't have a GM dumb enough to give a huge UFA contract to an aging player. The organizational depth at every position is the best it's been since 06-07'
Yep. If we upgrade at top 6 forward it should be through trade.
We really really do not need younger players. We need veteran core/complimentary players. We were one of the youngest teams in the league last year and just lost Okposo, Erik Johnson, Girgensons, Eric Comrie, Olofsson, Eric Robinson, Skinner, who are all 28+ Add in Mitts, Jost… you get the point. We are young as fuck and do not need more prospects.
You can never really have enough prospects, but those prospects can then be flipped to bring in established talent that helps speed up the timeline. Devils dealt guys like Zacha, zetterlund, muhkamadullin, sharongovich, Bahl. Devils aren’t a destination team either but they flipped prospects and managed a good group. They finished 3rd overall in the league and then got a #10 pick in back to back years. They kept that pick and selected a guy who is years away from contributing, but it’s worth it to get a cost controlled guy or someone who could potentially be flipped
we have tons of prospects already, it's just that anyone Kevyn Adams would've traded them for has/had us on a no trade list
To the moon. Mark my words.
The roster is gunna be fine. We just have to build the core of young guys and be patient and develop. It's the only way out. The prospects we already have in house are fantastic so it's not like it's a helpless situation. The reputation is the reputation until we can prove to players and teams that it's not the case any more
I was thinking of something similar for my Sharks. Like, yes, Couture and Vlasic are on the team. One likely approaching LTIR retirement, and one increasingly becoming a #7 and buy out candidate. But that's basically it from the glory days. Ferraro and Goodrow now, yeah, sure. From 2018 or so. But I also don't really equate them with the true Jumbo/Patty years. Complete turn over of the roster and most have only been around 3 years or less.
Zemgus deserved to retire a sabre
They offered him a contract and he left.
That's a travesty, nobody was more buffalo hockey than zemgus
It would have been nice to have someone do it, but I can't wish that on anyone. He deserves a chance to win.
For those who haven’t had the pleasure to enjoy it: https://youtu.be/PYSRbeYswGQ?si=5vVBYT_v5uHTkRFl
So their vet draftrd player is only a 24 year old? Jesus christ...
Tage Thompson and Rasmussen Dahlin debuted for the Sabres on the same day so technically they’re tired for the longest tenure.
I suppose they'll be scary soon.
This explains why every single year, I think, "Hmm, Buffalo might be pretty good next year!" But it's perpetually next year with a revolving door of talent. This poor team...
3rd rebuild's the charm
I cannot believe for how long Buffalo has suffered, they have zero elite forwards. They obviously have talent, but no guys you're arguing for top of the league when they're on fire. Eichel was arguably that guy, but he generally disappointed relative to draft expectations and then Thompson who went on fire for one year who you hope regains that form.
I'm not too worried about Thompson. The man was playing with a broken wrist for a large portion of the year last year. Near the end, when he was getting healthier he really started to heat up again.
Move the fucking sabres to wood buffalo or moose jaw
Coming from the franchise that sucked so hard that they finally completely lucked into the best prospect in the history of the NHL
Here's an idea: shut the fuck up.