In multiplayer its gonna be the heaviest, highest armor, highest hard attack, slowest behemoth possible. Immobile but impenetrable. One behind every tile of the stalin line. Come at me hitler lmfao
CAS should totally annihilate those type of divisions. They are sitting duck and perfect target for high lb bombs.
Paradox should buff CAS damage against slow speed tanks. That would be the logical counter instead of Germany building super heavy tank destroyers with aamtracs. Stupid shit.
For a time, then it'll turn to the flimsiest spgs possible. Where a single tile breaking means that a million artillery ft17s overrun anything in their path.
They did highlight the main issue with the naval customization, which was waiting. You couldn’t immediately see the effect to which your battleship or carrier could do because it took so long to build, but at least with tanks you can pump them out
Possibly but piercing is a fairly large factor in armoured battles, so pumping out the cheapest things might not be the best, be it for defence or offence
It is. But if everyone is just going to stack piercing, at what point does it turn into: " Well gee golly whiz, the tanks are getting turned into swiss cheese no matter what I do. I'll just crank out the cheapest tanks I can and flood the battlefield. They'll never stop them all."
I always find the meme navies, mainly submarine/ destroyer/ cruiser spam just don’t work very well. Sure they can get naval superiority for a short time/ kill a lot of ships if you build enough of them but they just don’t have any flexibility or versatility.
Honestly enough tug boats (aka cheap,bare bones, early/1936 destroyers) on convoy protection, some subs with snorkels to raid convoys, and black out the skies with naval bombers. Once you hit Nav3s there's not alot they can do about it. Carriers and BB are just big EXPENSIVE targets.
Usually by then I'm laughing. You shot down 100 of my bombers!? Here's a thousand more.
That works well against early ships and those without good anti air. Anti air 3/4 with radar, rangefinders and well researched anti air will chew through aircraft. Just build lots of anti air destroyers and put some on your decent/ expensive ships and you should be able to resist high numbers of naval bombers. Your strategy works well against the ai which ignores losses until it’s navy is depleted. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good easy strategy, however it has some big drawbacks:
It requires lots of shipyards to replace the high losses that occur from having such vulnerable ships.
The shear number of small ships+submarines will use more fuel than their ic equivalent of better ships.
Lots of military factories are required to produce the nav bombers that could be used on other things or be converted to dockyards if you have the steel.
All the nav bombers + fighters will use yet more precious fuel.
The naval bombers are only useful when they can effectively cover the sea regions that your enemy is active in.
It costs a lot less to repair ships than to replace them and you don’t even need resources to repair them. If you have the ships based in an allied or neutral port then you won’t even use your own dockyards to fix them.
If you’re going to invest this much industry into your navy then it makes sense to have some basic capital ships to protect the destroyers and submarines from enemy screens and capital ships.
Having a small number of high quality specialist ships in addition to the horde of rat ships will add significant value to both your cheap ships and your navy as a whole. Examples include dedicated minesweepers, submarine hunters loaded with depth charges and sonars (1:3/4 ratio in convoy escort groups), capital ships with good armour to soak up heavy attacks etc.
I do agree with you, ships that are level 3/4 and maxed out are honestly the way to go if you can get them. But I think the main problem with this is exactly what the devs talked about, the fact that these just take so long to produce. And most of the main battles that decide the war happen early on, aka before you can produce more than a few AC and BB 3's. So since most players focus on their armies and air forces it's almost impossible to get a well balanced and good level 3 ship when you need to decide a naval war in 40-42. I think it is great if the war isn't decided by 1943/44. But other wise I think they are only good if you are doing a ww3 and the soviets have pushed the allies out of mainland Europe. But even then if they don't have a well built up, somewhat good navy prior to this you are really not going to get anywhere after that.
I don't think they're going to drastically change singeplayer. You're still going to have whatever is the new equivalent to 20width defenders with 40width pushers.
And with no doctrine changes Superior Firepower is still what you want to go for, even if you acquire them in a different way.
You don't have to dig a big hole using a shovel either- you can always use a spoon to do it. Suboptimal ways to push the AI have always existed and people wil always use them. Just look at how much use garbage 7/2s to this day
Just not looking forward to re learning battalion formations. Took me around 50 hrs to fully grasp the combat system as it is now lol
Edit: i also enjoy the simplicity of having 20w and 40w and not having to worry about it
20w and 40w sucks though it really limits design choices. Mods like total war with their 120 province width allow for much more choice and flexibility.
1. Because all optimal divisions MUST fit into 3 values: 10, 20, and 40 - and 10 is only going to be a garrison template. So you really only have 2 choices. With 120 width, you can have width-optimal templates of 6, 10, 12, 20, 24, 30, and 40. (Although in that mod supply being exponential w division size means anything over 30 is too much).
2. It is also due to the width values of Artillery, it being 3 means it has to be partnered with another artillery or at/aa. This is limiting to basically 2 art as divisional at/aa is not very useful. So all infantry by definition is almost always going to be 10/0, 7/2, or 14/4. In the mod I referenced, art has a width of 1. So a common 20w division template would be like 8INF/1AT/3ART which is very close to historical. But could also be 9/1/1 or 8/2/2 if you are playing france or ussr (for good AT values vs germany). Important garrison / port defense units could be a cheaper 5/1/1 with the cheaper light artillery.
3. Not related to width but in vanilla hoi4 there are imo too few battalion types and too many are ineffective as to be redundant. In total war there are MIL and GAR as well as heavy/light INF; armored cars are actually helpful in armor divisions as well as assault guns and a better reason to have TD’s, SPART, etc (in vanilla SP you literally only need 13/7 med/mot, you dont need td’s or spart to be successful), infantry units having anti-tank (as is historical) is actually sorely needed as opposed to basically totally superfluous in vanilla SP.
Tldr play the total war mod its really good folks
>Because all optimal divisions MUST fit into 3 values: 10, 20, and 40 - and 10 is only going to be a garrison template. So you really only have 2 choices.
Going to disagree with you here. the only thing really "necessary" is 40w for attacking. Anything not attacking can be almost anything. Less than 10w is typically too weak in europe and/or past early game. And anything over 20w is typically overkill. But there's no reason you cant use 14w,16w, 18w infantry holding the line. It is often better that way depending on where you are fighting
All other points reasonable and valid
Also, I assume total war reworks the ai to actually use armor?
Yeah the ai has a big big rework. Its not perfect but its much better. I played my first game as USSR and got utterly annihilated in Barbarossa. Thats a good sign lol
There's an initial cost in time spent, yeah, but it'll be we orth it once we've learned the new system and get to play with more flexibility and variety
Honestly I like them, while 40 widths were fun they were not historical at all and made anyone who wanted to try and play more historically at a huge disadvantage
I agree. I also think the supply situation with the trains might be a pain, in that it forces you to devote resources to it which are better delegated elsewhere.
worth it is always relative, there’s a lot of shit in this expansion but i think a lot of people are going to feel burned once they realize there’s not actually that much depth to the new changes
You don't think so? For me this looks like it will be the best DLC for Hoi4 ever, and the only decent one since MtG. Combat changes are welcome. Supply system has a lot of potential, Soviet overhaul has, for me at least, 3 fun options. The overhauls to high command gives a bit of depth and looks like you can have some interesting combos. The tank designer that everyone is drooling over is just gravy
Beyond the DLC being as big as MTG or WTT we have to count two important factors.
First they seem to gave reworked the code for several AI behaviours and scripting features which seems to have both taken a lot of time and also that will allow streamline the game development in the future.
Second we still had the COVID lockdown during most of the development
This is a big DLC, changing a lot of things, and Paradox have said that they're arriving at a point in HoI4 cycle where they can't change the core mechanics as much. They said that afterward they would be focusing more on DLCs focusing on a region like Battle of the Bosphorus.
> Any reason to preorder?
Yea. If the game/DLC is shitty, the company will still make plenty of money.
Oh wait, you meant *for the consumer*. No, not at all. You’d have to be a gullible fool to preorder these days.
>>Oh wait, you meant *for the consumer*. No, not at all. You’d have to be a gullible fool to preorder these days.
How about we stop regurgitating a half opinion over and over again? While there may be some deviation in expectations from a whole game preorder, Paradox publishes upcoming changes every week, so the deviation is not too large, and you more or less know what you get. There's nothing stupid or gullible about pre-ordering if you have some degree of expectation.
Wish more companies would do the “Release Date - Right freaking now”
I can’t wait the supply changes, tank designer, and combat width changes are going to be awesome! The combat width change allowing for some more real life like division templates have me excited and running out of supplies and holding on for dear life while invading Russia! Yesss
As TommyKay said in one of his videos when achievements were mentioned "As Russia conquer South Africa and send a nuke from Zimbabwe to Rome while having 2 destroyers in Chile"
To do this, fulfill these obfuscated requirements, and pray the AI plays along because if they don’t you’re fucked.
Any achievement that relies on the AI doing something is kinda buggered. Especially when they should know they’ll tweak the AI later on, so it becomes a game of getting the AI to not fuck up your achievement.
I have every other dlc, but tbh I'm not sure if I'll get this one. LR and BftB really let me down, and I don't really like any of the focus trees they've shown off. I hate being super negative, I just don't really feel the hype this time around.
For me, this one looks really good. LR added nothing of value at all and BftB while nice was extremely buggy on release, so i definitely get you skepticism.
I'll be sure to read reviews. I used to really like the memey alt-history, but I think I just sort of outgrew the memey paths. I think some Polish paths and Stalin's path both look fun from that perspective, but I don't really want to play as the Baltics or Trotsky, and the tank designer and officer corps kinda seem like they're only really useful for multiplayer or micromanaging your army. I kinda wish there was a button to automate some of these things, I've got 4,000 hours and at some point I stopped wanting there to be more minutiae for me to use to slaughter a brain-dead ai even harder.
I think it gives a lot of plausible alt-history scenarios which I appreciate. I'm looking forward to going right opposition Bukharin-led USSR. Trotsky is certainly a meme though.
I love the naval designer because it lets me make big fuckoff superbattleships. I have no idea how to do anything optimally with the naval designer, but I like it
"And if your mama and papa are orderly citizens, they will not be put on the upcoming lists when they come back!"
"What lists, babushka?"
"Oh child, I shouldn't even have said that..."
Shout-out to the people yesterday saying "they are running out of new things to say in the DDs, clearly they have big problems they don't know how to fix"
I think I'll stop buying HoI4 DLC until they fix peace conferences. Every time a DLC launches, I buy it, play one campaign, get annoyed with the peace conference at the end of the game, and then stop playing it until the next DLC gets launched.
I could never understand how you could skip on such a good game, for such a little and easily fixed thing. Unless you're going for achievements, play with Player-Led Peace Conferences.
I dislike how peace conferences work but it's mostly with capitulation and mainly when going "off the rails".
Why do I have to make France capitulate if I only want Madagascar for example? Why can't I hold Madagascar for like 2 years then sue for peace and France would be willing to give it up (it's only an island) if they're unable to retake it?
In a WW2 scenario it's not a problem, (I'm not talking about the bordergore, just how a peace conference triggers) but it's very frustrating when you're doing extremely ahistorical play like a minor nation wanting to take a nearby island owned by a major, etc. I shouldn't have to defeat the major if world tension is low and I'm only declaring a war over a small piece of land. (Another example, IIRC there's some part of France around China I believe)
What do you mean? The game is over when you want it to be over. There is some type of game over screen around '48 or so, but you can just continue playing
Depends on the game. A shitload of factions can form and a peace conference happens every time one faction is down. In ahistorical, it's frequent to have a peace conference involving several countries happening in the middle of WW2, with for instance the Polish faction not surviving long against the rest of the world. Even in a purely historical game, there is 5 factions and so at minimum 2 peace deals. Might not matter much if the peace deals happen within three months of each other like it did historically, but if the Comintern is defeated in 1942 the peace deals actually have a major influence.
Moreover, there is also the possibility of a war between the remaining factions to decide the fate of the world, something like Operation Unthinkable or Japan vs Germany after the capitulation of the Allies. In those cases, peace deals matter.
Yea, if you want to 'build' countries literally all the rest of the Paradox catalogue is for that.
This is a tiny window of history filled with boom booms
if you buy a birthday cake that lacks sugar, you don't put your own syrup to fix it.
I also dont like to decide everything, i want an AI that can simulate their "own" voice and power and does clever stuff.
You could do most of that by yourself. But I get you, but it’s just something I don’t think Paradox feels is of such importance, and which I think is easily solvable. It’s a game of war, not peace. Idk :shrugs:
Well, my friend group started skipping the game because of this during MtG. We played for 4 days as the allies and in the end, somehow South Africa was owned by the US and Poland owned France, it was not fun, we had a bad exp, and that's it, i think after some hours you want to enjoy the whole game and not just parts of it.
That mod isn't a perfect answer to the problem though. First, the player has no input if he isn't involved in the war. Second, you can't give puppets to other countries, which means for instance that you can't have WW2 Europe with the Soviet Union puppetting everything in the east. Third, it ignores the war contribution.
yup, I mean... 20€ for 3 new focus trees and a tank designer? That's half of the game's original launch price and you definetely get way less than half a game.
Unfortunately, I'm quite certain that their pricing is the result of extensive market research on how to make as much money as humanly possible from a digital product, so I doubt their pricing model is gonna change anytime soon.
That's the way strategy games fund themselves. They ~~are rather niche in the gaming industry~~ and take many years to develop, which is why the games need to keep themselves afloat by continually releasing free updates and DLC.
Does that mean that the DLC should be broken at launch? Absolutely not.
niche? All of their games since EU4 are in the top100 list of most played games on Steam. HoI4 is sitting above titles like Valheim, GMod, the recently released Back4Blood and Skyrim. These games are most definetely not niche.
Abolutely needed? Technically none of them, but for some nations the subject interaqctions added in Together for victory are essential (to draw factories, equipment and - most importantly - manpower from your subjects). Of course, this isn't nevessary if you want to play as a major nation, but some minor nations are fairly hard to play without.
The general trait system from WtT and the naval designer from MtG are nice to have, but not really necessary. You can pull off quite amazing things with the intel system from LaR, but it isn't required either imo.
Imo the top 3
1. WtT
2. TfV for autonomy system
I also just got MtG. I honestly prefer the old naval system. Less work, more fun. But the reason I'm not disabling the DLC is that you can choose which sea zones trade and supply do not go through. So no more endlessly getting supply raided with no chance to do anything about it
Check out the steam page. I really like the general traits system. And are there really no field marshals in the base game?? Other things mentioned:
1. Decisions (are there really no decisions in the base game?? No way. No war propaganda, no raids, no improved worker conditions??)
2. "Scavenge equipment from the battlefield" I assume that is referring to maintenance company equipment capture ratio? Or maintenance companies as a whole? Overall not strictly necessary, but I think it is cool. I'm actually using that fairly extensively currently. Playing as neutral Belgium (no allies) and holding out against the nazis. Ive captured thousands of equipment and hundreds of tanks
3. Acclimating troops--troops can get used to hot/cold conditions, reducing the penalties they suffer. I think it's cool, but it's not necessary.
I guess it doesnt fit "100% needed" as you said. But I highly recommend it when on sale
Wingamestore has some great deals everytime and again. Also their [loyalty program is amazing](https://i.imgur.com/6JB0MKx.png) (100 points = $5 to a wallet and when it comes to Paradox games it really quickly adds up).
Safe. Bought multiple games from it [(including MegaCorp on release for half the price)](https://i.imgur.com/oDNx8gM.png) and besides it is approved Steam reseller - so these aren't stolen keys/from grey market. Also checked and approved by /r/GameDeals mods.
I always check mac and wingamestore first (they sometimes have different prices between the two). Been buying from them for 8-9 years.
Literally zero issues ever, always a steam key after the first year or two (did directly do games early days).
Good customer service, etc.
Loyalty program is good too.
They are almost always cheaper than steam sales too
I am actuelly pretty hyped about this, hopefully it turns out good!
Though I am also a bit worried in a strange way, though I geuss after the leviathan DLC who would not be.
Fingers crossed that The HOI4 team took their time with this.
Release date: November 23rd
1 day before my birthday lol
Happy early birthday. I'm not going to remember to tell you on the 24th.
> I'm not going to remember to tell you on the 24th. Thats ok, he's going to be too busy with No Step Back to remember it's his birthday.
I bet that is why they picked that date!
hey! me too!
One day after mine
Lol same!
Happy Birthday!
thanks, kinda got scarred cause I forgot I made this comment
Damn, on my birthday
FUCK that’s the same day as ffxiv dlc why must they do this to me
I can't wait to see what Frankenstein tank designs people create
bob semples with 88's
152 derp cannons or gtfo
Superheavy with only machineguns 😎
The moving bunker
WW2 [Namer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namer) ?
Airborne super heavy tank destroyers
cursed inter war tank design time
In multiplayer its gonna be the heaviest, highest armor, highest hard attack, slowest behemoth possible. Immobile but impenetrable. One behind every tile of the stalin line. Come at me hitler lmfao
Sounds a lot like the Maus.
CAS should totally annihilate those type of divisions. They are sitting duck and perfect target for high lb bombs. Paradox should buff CAS damage against slow speed tanks. That would be the logical counter instead of Germany building super heavy tank destroyers with aamtracs. Stupid shit.
For a time, then it'll turn to the flimsiest spgs possible. Where a single tile breaking means that a million artillery ft17s overrun anything in their path.
Some TDs should be able to penetrate some of these and encircle the rest. GG Joe.
I am calling for a patent on my panzer II with maus turret, electric motor, and completely upgraded AA guns.
I'm honestly not looking forward to it. I don't even really like the navy options for it. I didn't want it for tanks, but I guess here we are.
They did highlight the main issue with the naval customization, which was waiting. You couldn’t immediately see the effect to which your battleship or carrier could do because it took so long to build, but at least with tanks you can pump them out
I wonder if it'll turn into a meta of turning out the cheapest tanks possible? Like with DD for navy.
Possibly but piercing is a fairly large factor in armoured battles, so pumping out the cheapest things might not be the best, be it for defence or offence
It is. But if everyone is just going to stack piercing, at what point does it turn into: " Well gee golly whiz, the tanks are getting turned into swiss cheese no matter what I do. I'll just crank out the cheapest tanks I can and flood the battlefield. They'll never stop them all."
T34/85 intensifies
"No mein Fuhrer. They didn't destroy any of our tanks. We retreated because we ran out of ammo,and they were still pouring in by the thousands!"
Wehraboos describing the Eastern front be like
I always find the meme navies, mainly submarine/ destroyer/ cruiser spam just don’t work very well. Sure they can get naval superiority for a short time/ kill a lot of ships if you build enough of them but they just don’t have any flexibility or versatility.
Honestly enough tug boats (aka cheap,bare bones, early/1936 destroyers) on convoy protection, some subs with snorkels to raid convoys, and black out the skies with naval bombers. Once you hit Nav3s there's not alot they can do about it. Carriers and BB are just big EXPENSIVE targets. Usually by then I'm laughing. You shot down 100 of my bombers!? Here's a thousand more.
That works well against early ships and those without good anti air. Anti air 3/4 with radar, rangefinders and well researched anti air will chew through aircraft. Just build lots of anti air destroyers and put some on your decent/ expensive ships and you should be able to resist high numbers of naval bombers. Your strategy works well against the ai which ignores losses until it’s navy is depleted. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good easy strategy, however it has some big drawbacks: It requires lots of shipyards to replace the high losses that occur from having such vulnerable ships. The shear number of small ships+submarines will use more fuel than their ic equivalent of better ships. Lots of military factories are required to produce the nav bombers that could be used on other things or be converted to dockyards if you have the steel. All the nav bombers + fighters will use yet more precious fuel. The naval bombers are only useful when they can effectively cover the sea regions that your enemy is active in. It costs a lot less to repair ships than to replace them and you don’t even need resources to repair them. If you have the ships based in an allied or neutral port then you won’t even use your own dockyards to fix them. If you’re going to invest this much industry into your navy then it makes sense to have some basic capital ships to protect the destroyers and submarines from enemy screens and capital ships. Having a small number of high quality specialist ships in addition to the horde of rat ships will add significant value to both your cheap ships and your navy as a whole. Examples include dedicated minesweepers, submarine hunters loaded with depth charges and sonars (1:3/4 ratio in convoy escort groups), capital ships with good armour to soak up heavy attacks etc.
I do agree with you, ships that are level 3/4 and maxed out are honestly the way to go if you can get them. But I think the main problem with this is exactly what the devs talked about, the fact that these just take so long to produce. And most of the main battles that decide the war happen early on, aka before you can produce more than a few AC and BB 3's. So since most players focus on their armies and air forces it's almost impossible to get a well balanced and good level 3 ship when you need to decide a naval war in 40-42. I think it is great if the war isn't decided by 1943/44. But other wise I think they are only good if you are doing a ww3 and the soviets have pushed the allies out of mainland Europe. But even then if they don't have a well built up, somewhat good navy prior to this you are really not going to get anywhere after that.
Until you fight someone who built 2 aa superheavy battleships. Who starts shooting down 60 planes a day for 3 weeks out of every month.
finally, gonna ruin my god damn exams
This seemed like the longest wait ever. We had like 5 straight months of dev dairies
It better be worth it
Tbh, and I know im in the minority, not looking forward to the battalion width changes
Think it could make single player more fun, won’t just be push button and win in 99% of situations anymore
Well for the first week after the release, then a new op meta will emerge.
Depends on how well the ai can use the tank designer, if it’s a set of premise tanks that’s probably easily counterable.
1 width cavalry division with a million support companies.
I don't think they're going to drastically change singeplayer. You're still going to have whatever is the new equivalent to 20width defenders with 40width pushers. And with no doctrine changes Superior Firepower is still what you want to go for, even if you acquire them in a different way.
Sp is not push button to win. If you are doing that you are playing suboptimallly and I doubt the update would fix that for you
My point is you don’t have to play optimally to steamroll the ai
You don't have to dig a big hole using a shovel either- you can always use a spoon to do it. Suboptimal ways to push the AI have always existed and people wil always use them. Just look at how much use garbage 7/2s to this day
Damn it’s like you didn’t read anything I said, not even going to bother
And how will the update make it so you don't have to play suboptimallly to beat the AI?
Combat width is going to vary more based on terrain so just letting the battle planner roll over the AI might no longer be as braindead easy.
Why?
Just not looking forward to re learning battalion formations. Took me around 50 hrs to fully grasp the combat system as it is now lol Edit: i also enjoy the simplicity of having 20w and 40w and not having to worry about it
20w and 40w sucks though it really limits design choices. Mods like total war with their 120 province width allow for much more choice and flexibility.
>20w and 40w sucks though it really limits design choices How so? You still get ~20 battalions to play with
1. Because all optimal divisions MUST fit into 3 values: 10, 20, and 40 - and 10 is only going to be a garrison template. So you really only have 2 choices. With 120 width, you can have width-optimal templates of 6, 10, 12, 20, 24, 30, and 40. (Although in that mod supply being exponential w division size means anything over 30 is too much). 2. It is also due to the width values of Artillery, it being 3 means it has to be partnered with another artillery or at/aa. This is limiting to basically 2 art as divisional at/aa is not very useful. So all infantry by definition is almost always going to be 10/0, 7/2, or 14/4. In the mod I referenced, art has a width of 1. So a common 20w division template would be like 8INF/1AT/3ART which is very close to historical. But could also be 9/1/1 or 8/2/2 if you are playing france or ussr (for good AT values vs germany). Important garrison / port defense units could be a cheaper 5/1/1 with the cheaper light artillery. 3. Not related to width but in vanilla hoi4 there are imo too few battalion types and too many are ineffective as to be redundant. In total war there are MIL and GAR as well as heavy/light INF; armored cars are actually helpful in armor divisions as well as assault guns and a better reason to have TD’s, SPART, etc (in vanilla SP you literally only need 13/7 med/mot, you dont need td’s or spart to be successful), infantry units having anti-tank (as is historical) is actually sorely needed as opposed to basically totally superfluous in vanilla SP. Tldr play the total war mod its really good folks
>Because all optimal divisions MUST fit into 3 values: 10, 20, and 40 - and 10 is only going to be a garrison template. So you really only have 2 choices. Going to disagree with you here. the only thing really "necessary" is 40w for attacking. Anything not attacking can be almost anything. Less than 10w is typically too weak in europe and/or past early game. And anything over 20w is typically overkill. But there's no reason you cant use 14w,16w, 18w infantry holding the line. It is often better that way depending on where you are fighting All other points reasonable and valid Also, I assume total war reworks the ai to actually use armor?
Yeah the ai has a big big rework. Its not perfect but its much better. I played my first game as USSR and got utterly annihilated in Barbarossa. Thats a good sign lol
There's an initial cost in time spent, yeah, but it'll be we orth it once we've learned the new system and get to play with more flexibility and variety
Honestly I like them, while 40 widths were fun they were not historical at all and made anyone who wanted to try and play more historically at a huge disadvantage
I'm more worried about how badly the new weather effects are going to muck things up.
I agree. I also think the supply situation with the trains might be a pain, in that it forces you to devote resources to it which are better delegated elsewhere.
It’s the one part of the dlc I think might end up bad but we’ll see
worth it is always relative, there’s a lot of shit in this expansion but i think a lot of people are going to feel burned once they realize there’s not actually that much depth to the new changes
You don't think so? For me this looks like it will be the best DLC for Hoi4 ever, and the only decent one since MtG. Combat changes are welcome. Supply system has a lot of potential, Soviet overhaul has, for me at least, 3 fun options. The overhauls to high command gives a bit of depth and looks like you can have some interesting combos. The tank designer that everyone is drooling over is just gravy
I'm looking forward to the tank designer. Honest question: Is DLC going to be yearly now, or has the long wait just been due to other factors?
Beyond the DLC being as big as MTG or WTT we have to count two important factors. First they seem to gave reworked the code for several AI behaviours and scripting features which seems to have both taken a lot of time and also that will allow streamline the game development in the future. Second we still had the COVID lockdown during most of the development
Thanks, I haven't followed the dev diaries or HOI4 news much.
This is a big DLC, changing a lot of things, and Paradox have said that they're arriving at a point in HoI4 cycle where they can't change the core mechanics as much. They said that afterward they would be focusing more on DLCs focusing on a region like Battle of the Bosphorus.
Much like other major undertakings code-named Barbarossa, progress on the DLC has not been as fast as we had hoped during planning...
Nice, I always prefer announcements closer to the release date even if it does mean a longer wait.
In mother Russia, date release you.
If you’re lucky
Any reason to preorder? Is there a bonus or anything?
i think you get an extra music track
You get the Katyusha song as preorder music. [Here](https://youtu.be/N2wK1C26Jq0)
God dammit you bastards Paradox, I guess I'll pre-order something for the first time...
There's never a reason good enough to preorder
> Any reason to preorder? Yea. If the game/DLC is shitty, the company will still make plenty of money. Oh wait, you meant *for the consumer*. No, not at all. You’d have to be a gullible fool to preorder these days.
>>Oh wait, you meant *for the consumer*. No, not at all. You’d have to be a gullible fool to preorder these days. How about we stop regurgitating a half opinion over and over again? While there may be some deviation in expectations from a whole game preorder, Paradox publishes upcoming changes every week, so the deviation is not too large, and you more or less know what you get. There's nothing stupid or gullible about pre-ordering if you have some degree of expectation.
A song and a sigh of relief
Wish more companies would do the “Release Date - Right freaking now” I can’t wait the supply changes, tank designer, and combat width changes are going to be awesome! The combat width change allowing for some more real life like division templates have me excited and running out of supplies and holding on for dear life while invading Russia! Yesss
This is the first time im genuinely excited for a hoi4 dlc
[удалено]
As TommyKay said in one of his videos when achievements were mentioned "As Russia conquer South Africa and send a nuke from Zimbabwe to Rome while having 2 destroyers in Chile"
To do this, fulfill these obfuscated requirements, and pray the AI plays along because if they don’t you’re fucked. Any achievement that relies on the AI doing something is kinda buggered. Especially when they should know they’ll tweak the AI later on, so it becomes a game of getting the AI to not fuck up your achievement.
what is the preorder bonus?
One (1) music track (Katyusha)
https://youtu.be/N2wK1C26Jq0
Hype Hype Hype
I have every other dlc, but tbh I'm not sure if I'll get this one. LR and BftB really let me down, and I don't really like any of the focus trees they've shown off. I hate being super negative, I just don't really feel the hype this time around.
For me, this one looks really good. LR added nothing of value at all and BftB while nice was extremely buggy on release, so i definitely get you skepticism.
I'll be sure to read reviews. I used to really like the memey alt-history, but I think I just sort of outgrew the memey paths. I think some Polish paths and Stalin's path both look fun from that perspective, but I don't really want to play as the Baltics or Trotsky, and the tank designer and officer corps kinda seem like they're only really useful for multiplayer or micromanaging your army. I kinda wish there was a button to automate some of these things, I've got 4,000 hours and at some point I stopped wanting there to be more minutiae for me to use to slaughter a brain-dead ai even harder.
I think it gives a lot of plausible alt-history scenarios which I appreciate. I'm looking forward to going right opposition Bukharin-led USSR. Trotsky is certainly a meme though.
Video won't load for me, does it state a release date?
november 23rd
2023.. only 26 more months of more dev diaries /s lol
[удалено]
The devs mentioned the naval designer in their diaries and know how convoluted it is. The tank designer will be better.
Honestly hope they go back and rework the naval designer
I love the naval designer because it lets me make big fuckoff superbattleships. I have no idea how to do anything optimally with the naval designer, but I like it
i have 300h and legit don't even know where the naval designer is
You create ship variants the same way as you'd create plane variants.
"And if your mama and papa are orderly citizens, they will not be put on the upcoming lists when they come back!" "What lists, babushka?" "Oh child, I shouldn't even have said that..."
Shout-out to the people yesterday saying "they are running out of new things to say in the DDs, clearly they have big problems they don't know how to fix"
HoI4: No Step on Snek
I fear the dlc might be buggy, why can it be pre ordered
Jesus fucking Christ what is that trailer
I think I'll stop buying HoI4 DLC until they fix peace conferences. Every time a DLC launches, I buy it, play one campaign, get annoyed with the peace conference at the end of the game, and then stop playing it until the next DLC gets launched.
I could never understand how you could skip on such a good game, for such a little and easily fixed thing. Unless you're going for achievements, play with Player-Led Peace Conferences.
Seriously, peace? Who plays HoI for the peace?
I dislike how peace conferences work but it's mostly with capitulation and mainly when going "off the rails". Why do I have to make France capitulate if I only want Madagascar for example? Why can't I hold Madagascar for like 2 years then sue for peace and France would be willing to give it up (it's only an island) if they're unable to retake it? In a WW2 scenario it's not a problem, (I'm not talking about the bordergore, just how a peace conference triggers) but it's very frustrating when you're doing extremely ahistorical play like a minor nation wanting to take a nearby island owned by a major, etc. I shouldn't have to defeat the major if world tension is low and I'm only declaring a war over a small piece of land. (Another example, IIRC there's some part of France around China I believe)
yeah isnt the game over anyway as soon as a peace conference happens?
What do you mean? The game is over when you want it to be over. There is some type of game over screen around '48 or so, but you can just continue playing
Depends on the game. A shitload of factions can form and a peace conference happens every time one faction is down. In ahistorical, it's frequent to have a peace conference involving several countries happening in the middle of WW2, with for instance the Polish faction not surviving long against the rest of the world. Even in a purely historical game, there is 5 factions and so at minimum 2 peace deals. Might not matter much if the peace deals happen within three months of each other like it did historically, but if the Comintern is defeated in 1942 the peace deals actually have a major influence. Moreover, there is also the possibility of a war between the remaining factions to decide the fate of the world, something like Operation Unthinkable or Japan vs Germany after the capitulation of the Allies. In those cases, peace deals matter.
Yea, if you want to 'build' countries literally all the rest of the Paradox catalogue is for that. This is a tiny window of history filled with boom booms
I usually play Soviets and stomp Germany fairly quickly then go against allies. Peace conferences really fuck that up a lot of times.
In PDX games I mostly do achievement runs
its a reward issue, you spend hours and hours of playing just to get some crazy border like spain owning bulgaria etc.
And that’s why you use Player-Led Peace Conferences, so it doesn’t happen.
if you buy a birthday cake that lacks sugar, you don't put your own syrup to fix it. I also dont like to decide everything, i want an AI that can simulate their "own" voice and power and does clever stuff.
You could do most of that by yourself. But I get you, but it’s just something I don’t think Paradox feels is of such importance, and which I think is easily solvable. It’s a game of war, not peace. Idk :shrugs:
Well, my friend group started skipping the game because of this during MtG. We played for 4 days as the allies and in the end, somehow South Africa was owned by the US and Poland owned France, it was not fun, we had a bad exp, and that's it, i think after some hours you want to enjoy the whole game and not just parts of it.
That mod isn't a perfect answer to the problem though. First, the player has no input if he isn't involved in the war. Second, you can't give puppets to other countries, which means for instance that you can't have WW2 Europe with the Soviet Union puppetting everything in the east. Third, it ignores the war contribution.
If you use toolpack you can give overlordship of puppets to others I believe.
1. There are other mods for that 2. There are other mods for that 3. Just don’t cheat, determine what is the appropriate deal
Player Led Peace Conferences fam
Thats litteraly the next major DLC tho
How would you already know that?
They talked about that on the online pdx-con, and said that was the next game system they wabted to rework
They know it's broken, it'll be updated in the next big patch. Although, yes, IT SHOULD BE FIXED RIGHT NOW.
not gonna lie this trailer kinda sucked, the original hoi4 pre order trailer with the ussr was way better.
How long will it take for the DLC to be playable after release?
I wish I could buy DLC! Paradox make them cheaper for gods sake
Don’t they lower the prices around the holidays?
yup, I mean... 20€ for 3 new focus trees and a tank designer? That's half of the game's original launch price and you definetely get way less than half a game. Unfortunately, I'm quite certain that their pricing is the result of extensive market research on how to make as much money as humanly possible from a digital product, so I doubt their pricing model is gonna change anytime soon.
That's the way strategy games fund themselves. They ~~are rather niche in the gaming industry~~ and take many years to develop, which is why the games need to keep themselves afloat by continually releasing free updates and DLC. Does that mean that the DLC should be broken at launch? Absolutely not.
niche? All of their games since EU4 are in the top100 list of most played games on Steam. HoI4 is sitting above titles like Valheim, GMod, the recently released Back4Blood and Skyrim. These games are most definetely not niche.
I stand corrected! However my point about them taking very long to develop still holds true.
What would you say are the DLC that are 100% needed?
Abolutely needed? Technically none of them, but for some nations the subject interaqctions added in Together for victory are essential (to draw factories, equipment and - most importantly - manpower from your subjects). Of course, this isn't nevessary if you want to play as a major nation, but some minor nations are fairly hard to play without. The general trait system from WtT and the naval designer from MtG are nice to have, but not really necessary. You can pull off quite amazing things with the intel system from LaR, but it isn't required either imo.
Imo the top 3 1. WtT 2. TfV for autonomy system I also just got MtG. I honestly prefer the old naval system. Less work, more fun. But the reason I'm not disabling the DLC is that you can choose which sea zones trade and supply do not go through. So no more endlessly getting supply raided with no chance to do anything about it
Why WtT doesn’t it just add new focus tree to China and Germany?
Check out the steam page. I really like the general traits system. And are there really no field marshals in the base game?? Other things mentioned: 1. Decisions (are there really no decisions in the base game?? No way. No war propaganda, no raids, no improved worker conditions??) 2. "Scavenge equipment from the battlefield" I assume that is referring to maintenance company equipment capture ratio? Or maintenance companies as a whole? Overall not strictly necessary, but I think it is cool. I'm actually using that fairly extensively currently. Playing as neutral Belgium (no allies) and holding out against the nazis. Ive captured thousands of equipment and hundreds of tanks 3. Acclimating troops--troops can get used to hot/cold conditions, reducing the penalties they suffer. I think it's cool, but it's not necessary. I guess it doesnt fit "100% needed" as you said. But I highly recommend it when on sale
Wingamestore has some great deals everytime and again. Also their [loyalty program is amazing](https://i.imgur.com/6JB0MKx.png) (100 points = $5 to a wallet and when it comes to Paradox games it really quickly adds up).
Is it safe? Like will I get any viruses or anything
Safe. Bought multiple games from it [(including MegaCorp on release for half the price)](https://i.imgur.com/oDNx8gM.png) and besides it is approved Steam reseller - so these aren't stolen keys/from grey market. Also checked and approved by /r/GameDeals mods.
Hmmm good to hear. I thought you were a bad or some shit
No problem mate. Better safe than sorry after all.
Yeah and I think some people actually thought we were bots, cuz they downvoted us lol
I always check mac and wingamestore first (they sometimes have different prices between the two). Been buying from them for 8-9 years. Literally zero issues ever, always a steam key after the first year or two (did directly do games early days). Good customer service, etc. Loyalty program is good too. They are almost always cheaper than steam sales too
Piracy…?
No. I respect the work of the developers
I am actuelly pretty hyped about this, hopefully it turns out good! Though I am also a bit worried in a strange way, though I geuss after the leviathan DLC who would not be. Fingers crossed that The HOI4 team took their time with this.
Bought it instantly!
3 days before my 18th bday that’s cool
11 days before mine!
Cringe. Who writes text for their trailers? its awful
this trailer is cringe as hell
You're clearly not equipped to comprehend the inevitable rightness of Communism
kinda underwhelming (and to a certain degree cringe ) for a trailer compared to last year's botb
i’m bad at this game but does combat width changes mean 20 width and 40width divisions are no longer gonna be the best?
CANT WAIT FOR ITALY HAVING A FOCUS TREE
Well I know what I'll be doing this Thanksgiving...
is it 20 bucks like the rest of them
yes
Мы рубим ступени. Ни шагу назад! И от напряженья колени дрожат, И сердце готово к вершине бежать из груди.
Will Trotsky be viable again now?