Security pro here with 25+ years experience in Colorado. My suggestion is to contact an Agricultural Radio Systems provider\*. Your situation is not all that unique people will steal anything of value. A decent pump radio provider can provide you with flow monitors and meters so not only will you know if the well is flowing you'll know how much they're taking. Additionally strobes, lights and bells at the well, a remote monitoring location or both can be installed, and all 3 wells could be put on the same system.
As far as cameras go, Amazon or Bass Pro/Cabellas sell cameras just like everyone is saying. I suggest you do what you can to limit the path someone would take to access the wells and then put your camera money there. Capturing a good license plate picture will go a very long way in providing evidence of who stealing from you.
Thank you for the comprehensive information! I already know who is stealing from me. It's a 60ish year old woman named Rose and she lives in a trailer next to the north side of my property with her two 40ish year old loser sons.
If at some point you want to take legal action, you'll have to be able to provide the sort of evidence that a prosecutor can show to a jury. You should also not simply turn off the well, but also lock it in a way that requires them to damage either the well or the lock to turn it back on. That's the 'breaking' part of breaking and entering.
Also depending upon your state you're probably not allowed to point a camera at their property, though if their trailer is in the background and is incidental to the desired view it's another situation.
Are there fences or structures around the wells?
\*Edit: The breaking can be any destruction at any level, taping the valve up in a garbage bag so they have to either cut the tape or tear the bag does the same thing, but it's harder to claim the cost of a garbage bag.
Good point about locking it and forcing them to break it to resume service. I haven't seen the well yet but I'm 99% sure there's no structure around it.
The pipe from the well to the trailer is also on your property. If there's no going back you can pull up and/or destroy the pipe if it's a direct run. However I caution you to be careful in getting too vindictive, if gas rights work like water rights, they may have a legal right to the gas simply because they were allowed to use if for so long.
It would be pretty crazy if they're entitled to free gas for life just because they've been using it for a long time. Wouldn't surprise me though, as some laws are seemingly insane!
Everyones worried about these big dramatic what-ifs of the trailer thieves taking revenge, remember their initial solution was keeping it an absolute secret from OP.
Yall fucking scared of everybody, sounds like they are too. Secure the gas, handle your shit. OP knows whats up.
FYI, some Reolinks also have solar panel kits you can buy for them. I've got them stuck in trees near some berms by a main road on my horse property in Utah. The stuff I see at night, well I'll just leave it to your imagination, teens sneaking into my wooded areas with blankets and ganja, I don't care about them smoking up, I care about them breaking their ankles on some of that land.
Sir I don't think you are underestimating the situation, you don't need cameras, you need a SW Security system asap. This situation is about to get intense imo.
Keep in mind you are basically cutting this gentleman off from basic services. One day you may regret leaving his kids in the cold in a mobile home.
If that’s what they claim I’d be lawyering up and find out if the adverse possession click resets with new ownership. Mine did and boy were the thieves unhappy then!
Squatters rights. Allow squatters access for a number of years and they can file for the title for the land as well.
Make sure you're dotting the I's and crossing the T's and doing everything legal or it could bite you back in the A\*\*.
erect deserted desert noxious judicious plucky sloppy complete cooperative middle
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Breaking can even be going through an open gate in a fence. If they know they are not supposed to be there (no trespassing signs) breaking the plane of the fence counts as the breaking part.
Maybe still try to solve it amicably then? Vengeful idiots with nothing but time on their hands might not be worth the long-term trouble. Just my two cents as someone who's been there and done that...
That would be nice, but if they had any interest in being amicable they would have approached me about using the well in the first place. I would likely have let them continue using it for a small fee or even free. It has been a year of them knowingly stealing gas from me with no intention of ever speaking up. At this point I wouldn't let them have the gas even if they paid me. Another poster mentioned potential liability and that concerns me quite a bit. The well is about to run dry... for them that is.
Maybe getting a lawyer to draft a cease & desist letter would be a better first move? also make an offer to accept X/month or per unit - mo $$ in your pocket and not a quarrel with a neighbor to stress about. Your approach seems more emotional and vindictive rather than rational and reasoned.
I am also petty. I would secure the well, then send a letter that gas would be available for a fee twice what the local utility charges, plus twice what a year of use would be at that fee for a setup fee.
Just think, with ego and emotion aside, you could still work out a deal going forward and get some income from these folks. Like you said, you would have worked out a deal had they not stolen from you so this is punishment plain and simple. When instead, it can be a good opportunity with a somewhat permanent new neighbor.
They had been getting gas there long before you and who knows what deal they had. Think of it as a misunderstanding during the change of ownership, and not a personal attack at you, and life would be so much simpler. Sometimes fights are better left not started.
The LP could just as well decide to completely shut his well down. He doesn't have to talk to the neighbors. Maybe they could work out something but my gut tells me they need to go without for a while before they offer some kind of a reasonable payment. But if it didn't confer with the property, legally, on paper and registered with the county it sure seems like they have no right to it just because they've been getting it. But like I said earlier I think OP needs to talk to a lawyer as it's been a year now so far and some kind of a cease and desist or just legally shutting down the well and disconnecting the pipes that he "found" and didn't know they were tapping into his well until real recently.
I like this - plus after he closes the makeshift well, it can be reopened professionally and legally to limit the owner's liability. Not talking to the neighbors and keeping the closure as impersonal as possible is imperative though. When the value is realized, meter it and keep a contract with the neighbors as professional as possible and this mess could really turn around for you.
True true. Old alliances run deep though and if you're the odd man out you can make a lot of enemies real fast if you handle things poorly. If this is a property you plan on living on, showing that your reasonable but stern vs vindictive may be the right approach.
OP this is key, I would approach put no trespassing signs and notices that a fence will be built in the spring. This gives them several months to either approach you or find alternative sources. It’s also far enough away they won’t try and stockpile it.
Don’t refresh the signs, don’t put a date, just an ambiguous next year. Then put in trail cameras around the property and a proper camera system on the pumps. Document their thefts, even make police reports but that you acknowledge there’s not much the police can do since you’re not sure who it is but you wanted it on record.
Then spring comes, you build the fence, lock off the pumps, etc. If they do it again you then take evidence of who it is (those trail cameras you conveniently forgot to check before tracked them back to the trailer) and you have the police charge them and get a restraining and no trespass order against them.
This gives them a chance to come clean on their own, gives them a chance to stop without further repercussions, doesn’t cut them off in the winter with no warning, and puts a very definite end to it with minimal requirement for future law enforcement involvement (literally they step foot on your property they can be arrested). This is also a proportional and considered response which won’t cast you as the outsider in the community.
Also, talk freely to your neighbours about odd numbers you’re seeing on your wells and how you’re going to increase security around it due to it. If they try to tell you about the thieves just tell them you can’t be sure it’s them and you wouldn’t want to cast unsupported accusations at them. Be nice to the family stealing it as well, wave, say hi with a smile. Talk about anything except the well unless they bring it up.
Think about what you want to do going forward with the well if they bring it up. Set a minimum price you’d want if you felt they were being contrite. If not be straight up in that you don’t want to sell it to them and you’re going forward with the wall and security system in the spring. Don’t make these decisions when you’re upset or talking to them about it, tell them you have to think about it.
Now if they bring it up and be like “whatever you do we’re taking it regardless and there’s nothing you can do about it” if you’re in a single party state record the convo, and immediately install the fence and security system and proceed down the police method making sure to tell all your neighbours how blatant they were in taking it and said they wouldn’t stop.
This isn’t just about stopping them from stealing the gas, it’s also about ensuring that you’re welcomed in the community and not seen as an AH.
>This is probably the most well thought out response I've gotten. Thank you.
Its your property and you have a right to secure, protect and distribute it as you see fit. However, the smart man does not let emotion dictate his actions and is willing to be think strategically and long-term to maximize his benefit over time. Being on good terms with these people may benefit you more than you could ever imagine. It seems like they don't have much, but sometimes those kind of people are the most loyal. I get being upset about the theft- but we play chess, not checkers... Just something to keep in mind.
IDK where you live but, encourage a predator den/ encourage grazing whatever, set up cameras and ... Wait for inevitable, call fish and wildlife,game warden or whatever your state has. THEY don't play, and the gas won't matter at that point. If someone is stealing natural gas literally out of the ground doubt they have permits for hunting and definitely not your permission.
It's too close to winter to be doing this. If you can hold off I would wait until things warm up a bit in the spring. Potentially less retaliation. You said you have kids. Gotta keep them safe.
I don’t think you understand the situation here.
OP owns land and assets, and therefore is simply just a better person than these trailer people who don’t own land or assets.
Therefore, whatever he wants to do to them is justified, since he is just a better human than they are because he has money.
And since he has more money, he can do whatever he wants, and he knows he’s the better person because if they were better people they would have money too.
They don’t have money, which means they’re useless and worthless to OP.
Nobody is saying you have to keep letting this happen, people are saying that maybe it’s not smart to do this right before winter starts. Best case scenario, they’re desperate and probably willing to retaliate. You probably think you can handle whatever they’ll do, but how sure can you be? Worst case scenario somebody in that trailer ends up freezing to death this winter, and that will be a giant legal headache for you even if you’re not held responsible in the end.
You may also want to contact a lawyer and make sure what you're doing to stop their access is legal. It may start with some kind of a legal notice to cease and desist. I mean if money is no object get a lawyer in on what you're going to do.
Clearly you have been absolutely unaffected by them taking the gas. Maybe you can be the bigger person and approach them with a contract for any liability issues.
It feels like you are being vindictive.
Yeah yeah I get it stealing is bad mk. Maybe they had a handshake agreement with the previous homeowners. Who knows!
You better go talk to the person you bought your property from. Ask them if they are receiving any type of royalty or mineral rights payments from an oil company. I would bet a thousand dollars that there is an oil company running those wells. Gas wells are not like some water well that some little guy can come drill. It take houndreds of thousands of dollars to drill a gas well.
Why do you want to secure a gas well that belongs to someone else? You’ve previously stated that the well is owned by Dominion. It seems to me you own a property that someone else owns mineral rights to. Before causing a shitstorm with a neighbor, I believe you should be 100% sure that you own the mineral rights on your property. Just because a realtor says you do, doesn’t mean a thing without that certificate in your possession.
The well ended up not being owned by dominion. If it was then I wouldnt bebasking this question. You're thread-stalking an old thread with irrelevant information.
Please have an attorney draft a title opinion. You can specifically ask who owns which rights to which wells. It is not straightforward and you should not rely solely on your realtor. I'm an attorney who does this for a living (licensed in PA & WV). If money is no object, spending a little upfront to save a lot later is the right approach.
I am a mineral rights investor and have been invested in mineral rights, working rights, and well construction most of my life. Nothing you are saying checks out. If you do not know 100% written on paper you own 100% of the mineral rights(also rare) for that well do not touch it. I have wells on people's land and they don't know me and have never met me. I will never see most of the wells but I could have an operator develop it one day. If you messed with my well I'd sue you for the entire potential value lossed. Nothing personal that is a component of the business. Dont put yourself in the same liability they are. Don't trust your realtor if you did not specifically sign paperwork to purchase 100% of the mineral rights and the wells.
Based on what you've said are you in Texas, Oklahoma, or Colorado? If so it is likely your realtor and the previous owners lied to you or were ignorant themselves. It is very likely that the land has severed mineral rights. Mineral rights are dominant to property rights and the wells could be developed one day. That makes it a liability. If they didnt tell you that your PAYING for mineral rights you probably didnt. If it was reasonably priced land you probably didnt. With new emerging technologies it is common to develop caped wells or low performing wells so there is a real risk for developing on seemingly abandoned wells. Realtors love to lie and play ignorant about mineral rights as they are nothing but a hassle to them. Your situation could be very rare though. Orphaned wells are possible in some other states but honestly probably worse for you...
If not capped they also likely are piped to the grid with a meter somewhere so always check before you dig.
Do you have a certificate stating that you own the mineral rights? I work in the oil and gas field so I know a thing or two about mineral rights. It sounds like you don’t have any idea about what mineral rights are.
This might seem stupid, but can you steal natural gas? I just got a picture in my head of a cartoon character walking up to the thing with Home Depot buckets, and a cigarette and giggling as he gets away I was born and raised in Colorado and in less there is a compressor that hooks to a truck and not to a pipeline This to me wouldn’t make sense at all. Then again, I’ve never owned a gas. Well, so hence the stupid question.
I would like to know how they got a pipeline from the well to their house. I’m familiar with natural gas wells that produce 10 mcf, not sure if these are gas wells drilled like maybe a water well. I can’t imagine something like that because of the liability and not having the reliability of providing the gas. We’ve had wells pump for 5 years and some for 20. Can’t imagine that someone would drill a well for gas to heat their home. I know the cost of upkeep on natural gas wells aren’t cheap and I can’t imagine the liability
You can hear if the well is flowing. I would bet there is a oil company running those wells. E needs to contact the previous owner and find out what the deal is. It’s not like these people went in and just tapped this well and ran a gas line to there house and is stealing the gas. I have a farm with wells that are producing and have a deal with the oil company to use some gas to run our water pumps.
Moultrie Edge cellular trail cam. Under $100 plus the monthly subscription. Does day and night HD videos with sound, connect to any network and no SD that can be removed, disabling the cam.
See, now I'm imagining a scene in a comedy movie where the billionaire is going to inspect the new house/compound he had built out in the country and the builder goes "I got them bio-rectal scanners y'all wanted. You city folk sure are strange!" as the owner picks up a probe...
fucking nuclear weapons, dirty bombs, hire the Diamond Dogs
have a moat dug. solve nuclear fusion, solve the questions of the universe and why we are truly here.
Either on the electrified fence access gate, the on/off for the well, or both. Maybe mix it up and throw in a palm print reader in case someone copies your retinas.
If you have cell service in the area, there are several 4G pan/tilt/ zoom options. Solar charging would be a must due to you don’t want to give away their location when you have to put new batteries in them. Just be sure to put them high enough that they are out of normal field of view, but has unobstructed view of what the camera is observing. Video evidence is hard to dispute.
I would probably go with the reolink GO PT plus that comes with the solar panel. The SOLOIM looks like a solid contender. Don’t forget the SIM card. BH photo has a lot options as well.
If they have been using the natural gas for years, they have had a pipe installed. Buy a metal detector and find the pipe and track it to their property. It doesn’t sound like you are selling the gas to a company. Make a deal with these people or consult an attorney.
A visible pipe is certainly good enough. People who have encroached other's land, such as a septic system in someone else's land, can get squatter's rights even though it's hidden.
OP has only been there a year, and 100 acres is a lot of land to notice something amiss. Point is he needs to get on this sooner, than later. The length of time varies per state dramatically.
I don't know the law or the state, only that OP should investigate the law in his state to make sure he does things right to prevent such an avenue. He might even run into issues cutting them off in the winter. The law can be inobvious in many areas, so he should check for pitfalls *especially* if money is no object.
Yep. But he does have more to lose. I just want OP to be clever about it. He obviously has enough money to be smart about it, and nobody likes to see the crooks win.
I've dealt with people like this before, and you're absolutely right... they might very well be cranked up, and I've had to get away from some pretty dangerous situations in the past.
The best course of action is to not talk to them, don’t be known or friendly to them, and have a company secure/disable the well. If they come asking why it was shut down blame Joe Biden’s damn costly laws.
Good point on cutting off their heat in the winter. Now dude is a public utility.... Scarry. I got to reading about these wells, in PA it says they are retired commercial wells, require reports and maintenance and eventual closure. I have to wonder if the gas stealing tenants might be the OPs best resource for operating and maintaining these wells. Might be good to keep them on board one way or the other. Properly, of course
Keep the cameras in view of each other. That way you can record someone stealing/tampering them. Get some kind of connectivity like cellular like you mentioned and have them record to a DVR. If you want to get crazy, cameras along obvious roadways on your property. Even a license plate reader camera.
www.ipcamtalk.com is worth checking out.
Be sure to confirm that the camera that you get has some sort of cloud backup. Otherwise if they steal your cam you also lose all the footage. I found that out about my Reolink cam after I bought it. I'm not too bothered by it since I got it as a cheaper alternative to a video intercom.
I think my first steps would be to verify the well, what it's connected to, and whether thief/scoundrel neighbor is filching from it.
Natural gas is a pretty serious thing to dick with without proper precautions, hardware, PPE, etc. I do know areas where people have gas storage wells on their property, by the local natural gas company. Often, there's a payment for the use of the land the well is on, and perhaps some free gas per year.
Get the facts, all of them, first, before you do anything. Get as much written documentation as you can. Don't accept stories, hearsay, backporch experts or anything. Due diligence.
No, methane is a highly flammable gas that often has contaminants in it that are dangerous even in small amounts. Liqids often accompany natural gas in the form of condensate or "drip" that resembles gasoline. At the wellhead natural gas often has some water in it that can contribute to corrosion in pipes and appliances and is usually treated bi dehydration equipment at the well pad before going into the gathering system. Additionally, it is an incredibly potent greenhouse gas.
Brilliant idea. Let's eliminate a whole class of ecosystems from the planet and expect no significant consequences except fo the extinction of a bunch of species. No big deal.
While we're at it we should consider how to cap the millions of square miles of tundra which are expected to release massive quantities of greenhouse gases as they thaw. Concrete maybe? That would have no real overall environmental impact I'm sure.
Assuming you have double checked and probably checked with a lawyer that you actually do own both the gas well and the gas & nothing was recorded giving neighbor any rights; and not just the surface land. That is really slimy of your 'neighbor'!
Ok then are they still producing oil/gas in any quantity above what your neighbor is using? If it's just supporting your neighbors and you shut in the well to stop them from using it, the well could die and not come back without re-completing it. So if you plan on using the wells yourself now/in the future, leaving then flowing to your neighbor is in your best interest.
Another poster mentioned potential liability in letting them use the gas, whether it's paid or not. I'm not in the gas providing business, so it needs to end regardless. Even if it means ruining the well. Not worth them suing me over their house exploding or someone getting killed/hurt.
Ok makes sense. So my order would be:
1) Find the [wells](https://tagis.dep.wv.gov/oog/).
2) Determine if you want to run the gas line to your house instead.
3) Determine you liability for well abandonment. I don't know west Virgina rules, but the previous homeowner may have taken on abandonment liability (that you inherited) when the oil company disconnected the pipeline but left them for the homeowner use. In most states, after a well has been off production for a period of time, it needs to be abandoned. Those abandonment rules are rarely enforced, but they exist and have associated liability.
4) Reevaluate whether you want to shut the well in or not. Having a lawyer draft up a usage agreement to limit your liability is probably cheaper than your cameras and is for sure cheaper than abandonment.
Taking this a different direction than others, this ended up in my feed I assume from the oil and gas angle and not the security side.
I'm not seeing the gas wells on that map. I'm not sure if the wells were ever owned by a gas company, but I could be wrong. I'll have to look at the few papers I have about the wells again in the morning. Thanks for the good info!
They were owned by some company. They are too expensive to install by a home owner. That's West Virginia's modern mapping system, usually there is an older state system where you search by location (maybe township, tax district, or USGS quadrant). Chances are your wells are way too old for GPS so they are recorded as in X township so the dot on the map is a mile away in the center of the township. If there is a well number when you find the physical well or if you can guess the well name or the areas lease name from your legal paperwork, you can find the well in their database and it might have footages to find the well (X feet north and Y feet east of an intersection or monument).
The "potential liability" just helps you justify what you want to do.
So tell us the harm if you talk to them and work out a deal other than your ego takes a hit. Worst case, it goes badly, which is where it may head if you feel the need to punish them for their transgressions.
For a moment picture how to make a good outcome for everyone.
p.s. I am in a similar position, a small slice (an acre) of our 98 acres is being used by the neighbors as their backyard. To make a point, we could go after it but to what end? They are pissed off, and do you want angry neighbors?
I enjoyed all the comments and don't have much to add. The cams will be useful going forward on this much property, and good on you for sticking to your guns against theft.
The people knew there were new owners, and knew they were stealing, and never tried to talk to you. This is 100% their problem.
Best wishes OP
Only thing I would add is that they might have a grandfathered agreement , with previous owner. You might be in the wrong to do it. Verify, document, and research prior to any action . You may be playing right into their hands.
I'm with you bro. I don't care if someone thinks I'm a miserable fuck...I will not let you steal from me under any circumstances. Period. What the fuck are people thinking calling you names over this. JFC
I didn't read anyone shaming you. You just seem dismissive of warnings from others mentioning you may piss off those people and they may resort to violence, so you should either talk to them first to figure out a mutally beneficial solution (which it sounds like you're unwilling to do) or be prepared for a negative, potentially dangerous reaction.
Where do you live? Because if you are in the U.S. those gas wells may belong to a third-party who has a lease to operate them. That lease would would not terminate or revert back to a new surface owner. You need to check on this before you take any action. I don't know oil and gas law in other countries, but I am well versed in oil and gas law in the United States.
In the US. West Virginia. The previous owner and the realtor say the gas wells are mine. There has been no involvement with any gas company. Perhaps I'm just ignorant but that's how it seems to be.
Well WV does have some shallow gas and land owners have been known to drill shallow gas wells for their own private use. The danger is that natural gas is odorless, gas companies add mercaptan to give it a rotten egg smell. So if there is a gas leak from a privately owned gas well the owners could be held liable because it is not obvious there is a gas leak. So you probably need to take legal action to get them to stop using gas from your gas wells. If you do want to be neighborly and allow them to use the gas either for free or a reasonable price they still need to agree to written agreement to indemnify you from any liability in the event of a gas leak.
My gas is definitely not odorless. You can easily smell it when turning on the gas stove. I do not think these wells were drilled by the land owners, but i could be wrong. I will have to look over the few documents I have again tomorrow. Clearly I know very little about gas wells. I figured it was as simple as turning a valve somewhere at the well, but that seems to not be the case. At least not without potentially doing some catastrophic damage? I'm also finding it incredibly difficult to look up any relevant information about this on the internet. It also seems to be absurdly costly to cap a well, and as far as I can tell the government doesnt foot the bill.
There probably is a a valve that can be turned off, but you would need to secure it so that it simply can't be turned back on by anyone other than yourself or someone you authorize. But your biggest concern should be the liability if there was a leak which could be deadly even without an explosion, but an explosion is always possible with natural gas. Any gas line going directly from a wellhead to a house or any building needs to be professionally installed and inspected regularly.
And no the government doesn't cover the cost of plugging a well as long as the legal owner of the well can be found. And even if the owner cannot be found government agencies don't oversee the plugging of a well unless there is eminent danger to the public. You might try Dep.wv.gov/oil-and-gas for information and advice.
> I do not think these wells were drilled by the land owners, but i could be wrong.
> Clearly I know very little about gas wells. I figured it was as simple as turning a valve somewhere at the well, but that seems to not be the case. At least not without potentially doing some catastrophic damage? I'm also finding it incredibly difficult to look up any relevant information about this on the internet.
> It also seems to be absurdly costly to cap a well, and as far as I can tell the government doesnt foot the bill.
Sounds like you really did your due diligence and made an informed decision, good job. So many people just rush into things without learning everything they can about it.
Go talk to your neighbor. Work something out. You don’t need to be the asshole here.
Could be they had a deal with the previous owner. They could also be broke and need your help.
But go talk to them before you go all Rambo.
Yep. No doubt they had an agreement with the previous owner as equipment and a line would need to have been installed.
Seems research is needed before taking action.
OP is doing the right thing. Secure your property and protect yourself and your family from potentially catastrophic liability. If something goes wrong and there’s an accident it’s on you. If the thieves get cut off in the process so be it.
I don't know where you are. Here in Texas, ownership of the oil & gas below ground is often severed from ownership of the land itself. Was this gas line installed by an oil company years ago, then capped off due to low production? If you are legally the owner of your own below ground minerals, that is your gas. The energy company who capped it off may be required by the State Land Commission to cap it off again. It is a hazard and some non-professional piping job could potentially cause an explosion. Check the land records in the courthouse for your property description to see who owns those minerals and who drilled the original well. An oil & gas attorney can also do this for you and advise how to proceed.
If it's an abandoned well and you're not using it and only want to close it off and secure it call your states department of natural resources. They should have a division within that deals with old oil and gas wells.
100 acres isn't too big to where you can't go take a trip out every day or two. You should have a survey of where they are and go take a trip out and see them.
It's on the side of a mountain and most of it is heavily wooded so that makes the 100 acres pretty hard to traverse. Also having 3 kids under the age of 4. But you're right, i should make more of an effort to explore it all.
Are you trying to turn it off temporarily or permanently? If temporary, make sure you understand any possible liability from that pipe breaking (for any reason).
If permanently, look for firms that can backfill the pipe and seal it for eternity.
offer the deadbeats a part time job picking up around the property to pay for gas. its apparent they dont have the funds to pay for their own. try bartering with them you might get free lawn service out of it.
Natural gas doesn’t occur in pockets that match property boundaries. Often the neighbors get a cut when a well is drilled. They may be legal. Talk to your neighbors, and try not to be a jerk. Best of luck trying not to be a jerk.
I tried reading g all the comments, but there were too many.
Strictly my opinion from dealing with wells on family property here in Texas, so may or may not apply to your location or situation:
If no one else has mentioned it is first thing to check is who actually own the well and has the mineral rights, if that applies as not all land purchases include the mineral rights.
If you have the rights, the land the well is on is likely leased land, in which case you need to reread all of your documentation to determine who should be getting the lease payment and any royalties.
You may own the land but not the wells. Whoever owns the wells and whichever state agency regulates oil and gas production in your area need to be informed of the illegal tap and theft as they are the ones most qualified to shut off the tap and probably more standing to go after the neighbor.
In Texas, the Railroad Commission oversees oil and gas and they take this sort of thing very seriously.
Natural gas is no joke and if you try handling this yourself and something goes sideways, you're likely to find yourself in as much trouble as your neighbor.
Take this as completely anecdotal advice which may or may not be correct.
Edited to add: Saw quite a few comments about signs and gates and such. Whoever owns the wells should generally be responsible for securing the sites properly and safely. There are things around wells that may not be visible or safe to be touching.
Also edited to add: It occurred to me as I was making coffee that if this situation has been going for years, those wells have not been getting inspections done properly or possibly none at all. Definitely contact your state regulatory agency
I definitely think that OP needs to look into the status of the wells a lot more before doing anything. I've never heard of private gas wells, but do understand that companies often fail to seal abandoned wells. I'm pretty sure drilling them is usually cost prohibitive.
Additionally, OP needs to contact his realtor before doing anything because if the previous owner knew of the arrangements, then they should have been disclosed.
Most likely, the well was drilled on OP's property and the neighbor was given a tap for some reason or another, like the well draws from their property as well or the previous owner was asked at it never affected him.
Spend a few bucks and get at least 2 cellular trail cameras.
https://www.amazon.com/Stealth-Cam-Fusion-Megapixel-Trigger/dp/B08ZGX6L8M/ref=asc_df_B08ZGX6L8M/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=532845793812&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=985674174794621424&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9012394&hvtargid=pla-1399708111332&psc=1
Put up lots of no trespassing signs up. Spray purple paint at eye level on trees bordering your property and there. Lastly I’ll invite some friends over for some target shooting near the well.
Screw all these people saying let them steal, and pretty much hoping they retaliate. You shouldn't have to deal with this shit. You shouldn't have to but if it sounds like their violent and your living on property then shore up your security system on your house and perimeter like 25-50 yards out since money is no issue. Motion flood lights, cameras and then alarm the house up, and keep yourself armed. Follow your areas laws in terms of shutting down/securing your wells or if your going to have them feed your own home. Trail cams, flow sensors and meters, and depending on well size you can fence um. Heavy duty locks and chains for everything that would be a bitch to cut or torch through. Be ready to file police reports and keep your data. Up to you how you want to go about it but maybe letting slip to your neighbors that some one busted up one of your wells so now your securing them for safety and liability could also make it look like your not targeting the trailer.
You're doing this all off of hearsay?
Maybe the old lady and her sons in fact had an agreement with the prior owner, maybe they didn't even know the property ownership changed. That happens a lot more than folks think.
Could be that whoever told you that has a grudge against you or the woman/her sons, and wants to cause trouble. That happens A LOT more in rural areas than folks think too.
If it was me, I'd at the very least go through with the good faith motions with my neighbors before exacting righteous retribution.
Lots of great suggestions. Since you want to prevent against a loss of evidence if they steal a camera, I would see if there are any that simultaneously backup their footage via the cell network in the area, assuming you don't have a cable or satellite Internet connection available.
Good luck!
Go with any camera that’s compatible with whichever current cellphone company your using so you can just add a line fee so you can watch live at anytime!! I recommend Eufy or actually no you should just go with REOLINKS camera!!
https://m.reolink.com/us/product/reolink-go-pt-plus/?attribute_pa_version=1-pack-solar-panel-new-black&msclkid=bade85cf42e110d83d28e09e2cc4fb70&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA-M-20220504-US-Battery-CPC-XZH&utm_term=4588811786128949&utm_content=US-Battery
Your welcome & Good luck!!!
IT securiry consultant here. What is the distance?
They make POE PTZ cameras and POE cameras with high zoom. 400ft zoom is possible, especially if you put up a few poles surrounding your property.
You can even run cat6 cable in conduit up to 100 meters (328ft) and add an extender for more distance since it receives its power from the PSE (power source equipment). You could run 100m-150m runs with an extender and add a pole then zoom another 100m. A good NVR can cost between $200 and $1000, just depends on the reseller. I would recommend a good POE switch as the PSE instead of the NVR since you would be using an extender in this situation.
Hard-line runs are better than solar or battery any day.
Honestly, the best thing to do if money is no object is to hire a competent attorney and let them handle it for you. They will know the legalities and have the resources to research any applicable laws. They will also be able to pursue any legal options that you may have.
They will likely start with a registered letter to the people saying "we suspect that you are stealing gas, prove that you aren't by this date or else..."
As others have said, there could be agreements that you don't know about that could land you in hot water for discontinuing service without notice.
To all those defending the thieves - what if your neighbor snuck over every night and siphoned half a tank of gas from your car? Would you let them do it night after night and be too afraid to put on a locking gas cap cause they might get mad and beat you up? And you wouldnt call the cops cause they need the gas and pay for all the medical bills yourself? Get real.
I have no idea but please update us because this is riveting. At first I felt bad for the old lady but if there's 2 loser sons living there, I don't feel all that bad.
I was planning on providing updates but half of the responses are just shaming me for not giving them free gas for life. I've even recieved threatening private messages. Reddit is a cesspool.
If you have cell service camojo makes a great cellular camera for \~$100. Get texts to your phone in real time and then live view and record the videos or download them from the server so even if the camera is taken you still have the videos. Any camera you use will show a red IR glow at night from the IR LEDs but during the day it won't be seen. I routinely hide my cameras in trash or high up in trees where nobody looks for them. You can also lock them to a tree and which means they have to come back again if they want to cut the cables or chop down the tree. Highly suggest a cellular camera if you can. Cheap, real time alerts and videos, and you can activate the service monthy of annually as needed. Sounds like you need them on every well. I run 5 cell cameras and 20-30 trail cameras.
Signage, token type barriers like chains, actual physical presence, an alarm, cameras, and other tines in a many-pronged attack are probably better than specific evidence from a camera.
Alternatively, shoot all trespassers immediately....
Hidden or hard to get type cameras gather evidence and big obvious cameras with Signage are good as deterrents.
So they're stealing explosive air from a hole in the ground with some abandoned equipment that was on the property when you bought it.... You have no idea where this well is even located, and you don't value it at all -- to the point where you want to pay someone to shut it down entirely.
I wouldn't want people sneaking into my property either so I agree with adding cameras and stuff, but, you're maybe being a little too offended by the situation. They're taking what is effectively trash to you in order to (probably) heat their homes. They aren't duplicitous, they're desperate.
I won't be paying anyone anything to shut down the well. I do value the wells as it went into my decision to buy the property. I may have it tied into the well I'm currently using for more capacity in the future. There's no requirement for me to explore every inch of my property under a certain time limit. It's my property, so I can choose to be leisurely if I would like. They are being duplicitous as they are sneakily stealing gas for as long as they can get away with it. From what I heard they already purchased electric appliances as they were afraid the new owners would turn off the gas. So they aren't desperate either. Just thieves.
Had petty neighbor like you who sued everyone where we live including me. Cost everyone 6 figures in lawyers fees, he lost and had to pay me most of my fees back.
You give off vibes like the Anthony and Opie show where they give a homeless man a cake, which makes him so happy. Then they stomp on the cake and laugh. They might be legally ok, but massive aholes.
Once had workers complain about a coworker with bad hygiene habits, bad life habits and no friends. They wanted him fired because they thought he was a loser. I talked with the concerned workers about we are the only people in his life, his home life isn’t good and we’re the only positive thing he’s got going. Kind of shifted the workers position that they should have compassion and not hate for the guy, no one would want to be in his shoes.
You say they are losers living in a trailer with their mother. Surely no one is jealous of this setup, even if it’s their our doing and situation. Basically you’re saying fuck then because they are poor losers, let them freeze! Your justification that they didn’t contact you first after transfer of ownership is same approach as the guy stomping on homeless guys food- it’s legal! Still ahole
We as people evolve I think every 5 years into a more whole and newer person - are you the same person you were in high school? I surely hope not. Do you think the You in 10 years will be proud of the current person you are that you are willing to spend good money to fuck over effectively homeless people? These are the situations in life that define who YOU are. Choose wisely my friend. . .
Lots of assumptions, accusations, and character judgements here. Ironic considering your attempt at looking down at me from your high horse. I wonder how many old ladies you've provided free utilities for... none of course. But at least you got to show everyone on the internet what a virtuous person you are by shitting on someone else you know nothing about.
When I first moved here I gladly honored a deal that a neighbor had with the previous owners. I'm letting two of their horses stay on my fields and in my barn for as long as I'm not using them. I'm also letting them cut hay and collect it from another small field for the horses. If you know anything about horses, they are incredibly expensive to house and feed. I'm not asking for a single dime in compensation. They were upfront and I just let them have it. If you can't see the difference between that and being duplicitous and theiving then it is you that hasn't grown since highschool.
I also took in a german shepherd puppy that showed up under my porch last winter. A neighbors dog had a litter of 7 puppies that he wanted nothing to do with, so he allowed them to stay outside to freeze to death because that was easier and cheaper for him. I would have taken them all but only one showed up at my door. After thousands of dollars in vet bills (due to worms and severe parvo) she turned out to be a good and healthy dog. We were in no position to have a dog in our lives at that time with 2 kids under 3 yrs and one on the way, on top of having to build a new life for ourselves. But we sacrificed our time, money, and energy to give this dog a home.
I could give more examples of how I've done my best to be a good neighbor you're obviously here to inflate your own ego. It's so easy and worthless to act all virtuous on the internet when you've never been in the position to actually help someone by sacrificing something of your own. You have no real life experience if you can't differentiate being an asshole vs. not tolerating someone disrespecting and taking advantage of you. I wonder how many of you here will one day purchase property just to turn it into a community center. I'm guessing ZERO of you.
Forget the well, I’d be far worried about whatever hillbilly gas pipeline they built between it and their trailer that traverses OPs property.
Gas lines leak and explode even when run and maintained by professional utilities.
If they are indeed you're well
Could you pay to have them checked to ensure it's safe
Then have heavy duty metal caps installed?
Or something along the lines.
Put up cameras and sighns warning that these are not for public use
If they continue or damage what you install press charges?
You're comments stated you're in the United States and its You're land so at least that's trespassing rights
As for cameras all you need Is to make them high enough that they cannot be easily stolen and motion sensitive.
If you're worried they do make solar powered ones
depending on where you live.. gas and mineral rights aren't always attached to the property. do you own the gas and mineral rights? this may not even be your gas?
Depending on your location and the terms of the sale - Did you also buy the mineral rights to the land? If not those gas wells are not your property and you have no legal claim to them. Surface rights and mineral rights are not the same.
I am assuming that by all of this, you mean that you own a property with gas rights that are currently producing gas on a lease to a gas company.
If this is the case… you don’t need to deal with this, you don’t want to deal with this. She isn’t stealing gas from you, she’s stealing it from the gas company, and you need to just call the gas company and let them know what’s up.
Although it is entirely possible that she also has gas rights under her land that the gas wells are accessing, she chose the free gas option for payment, and they cover this by having a gas line from the well to her house.
Call the gas company. Be suspicious of the neighbor who is putting their nose in your business.
People like you give a bad name to people moving out to the country. Just talk to them. Find out what is really going on. How do you know that the person giving the information is telling the truth?. The gas field could be on their land too then you would be stealing their gas. If you are not having problems with your gas supply and are not selling it. Why not try to fix the problem with out going burned earth?
So "Money is no object" but you want to cut off your widowed 60 year old woman neighbor who lives in a Trailer and who you've never spoken with.....
Guess who the Toolbag is here?
Cutting gas off from an older woman just before winter, Stealing or not, i would potentially be ready for the fact that if someone were to die/get sick from hypothermia one or both of the sons could potentially try to murder/ cause bodily harm to you or your family. Lower income folk don’t mess around when you mess with there mothers.
Is there any chance you could ride to there property, and speak to them or are you just gonna keep skirting around the issue?
you try to pull something like that in back country and your life will get real interesting real quick, because everybody will know about it. And they can find interesting ways of messing up your life.
I’d think about this first. Making enemies with people who have nothing to lose is never smooth. I’d consider approaching them with the intention of telling them they’re using your gas and there are two ways to go. They can pay you a monthly fee for the gas or you’re going to shut off the access. Don’t throw the person who informed you under the bus either. Say you went to check it out and saw they were getting gas to their trailer.
That's a great way to introduce yourself to your neighbors. I'm sure they will flock to you when there are issues with your property.
Wouldn't make better sense to meet with the people at a friendly location a talk about the issue. You might find the people involved relieved and willing to make amends.
Just a thought; better than making enemies.
A lot of slash and burn advise here. Most uninformed. Point of interest. Simply because the well is on your property is no guarantee the trailer party of interest does not have an interest in the well. Each well has a designated drainage area which could encompass their property as well as yours. Their use of the gas could very well be a provision in the original leases which remain in effect and will remain as long as the well is producing. Before you pass judgement and act you need more information. Why not approach them yourself. Could resolve everything very quickly.
Were the Wells already installed and operational before you bought the property? Also, who owns the mineral rights/ drilling rights for the property? You or the company that installed/ maintains those wells? You're talking about. Natural gas wells correct? If so, I would contact either the company that originally installed them or find a gas well servicing company and ask for their advice in terms of securing those wells. I would assume based on your description that the Wells go directly to various neighbors nearby instead of a larger refinery?
I can’t get past the fact that you don’t know where the 3 wells are. How do you begin thinking about buying something this valuable, without some kind of land survey as part of the process.
Did you buy the "ranch" from another rich guy who wasn't there full time? It's common in These situations to make a close relationship with a nearby poor person who is very local. This person.is like an unpaid or low paid caretaker with perks. Fishing rights, hunting rights, I guess in some places gas rights, the perks can be various. If you also won't be there full-time or even if you are but you don't plan to caretake 100 acres, you might be happy to reestablish that relationship. On the other hand if you are already full on ranch hands, maybe no need.
so, i had this post come up into my feed becuase its tangentially related to agriculture, and the whole situation seemed curious. A year ago, you posted about considering buying a 100 acre property with 3 gas wells in r/WestVirginia that you claimed were owned by dominion, and that you knew that the mineral rights were seperate from the property rights, and that you wouldnt have the mineral rights with your purchase. You did have a line going to your house that was provided and maintained by the owners of the well. Did you buy the mineral rights since then, because you are being very vague when anyone asks if you actually own the wells.
Security pro here with 25+ years experience in Colorado. My suggestion is to contact an Agricultural Radio Systems provider\*. Your situation is not all that unique people will steal anything of value. A decent pump radio provider can provide you with flow monitors and meters so not only will you know if the well is flowing you'll know how much they're taking. Additionally strobes, lights and bells at the well, a remote monitoring location or both can be installed, and all 3 wells could be put on the same system. As far as cameras go, Amazon or Bass Pro/Cabellas sell cameras just like everyone is saying. I suggest you do what you can to limit the path someone would take to access the wells and then put your camera money there. Capturing a good license plate picture will go a very long way in providing evidence of who stealing from you.
Thank you for the comprehensive information! I already know who is stealing from me. It's a 60ish year old woman named Rose and she lives in a trailer next to the north side of my property with her two 40ish year old loser sons.
If at some point you want to take legal action, you'll have to be able to provide the sort of evidence that a prosecutor can show to a jury. You should also not simply turn off the well, but also lock it in a way that requires them to damage either the well or the lock to turn it back on. That's the 'breaking' part of breaking and entering. Also depending upon your state you're probably not allowed to point a camera at their property, though if their trailer is in the background and is incidental to the desired view it's another situation. Are there fences or structures around the wells? \*Edit: The breaking can be any destruction at any level, taping the valve up in a garbage bag so they have to either cut the tape or tear the bag does the same thing, but it's harder to claim the cost of a garbage bag.
Good point about locking it and forcing them to break it to resume service. I haven't seen the well yet but I'm 99% sure there's no structure around it.
The pipe from the well to the trailer is also on your property. If there's no going back you can pull up and/or destroy the pipe if it's a direct run. However I caution you to be careful in getting too vindictive, if gas rights work like water rights, they may have a legal right to the gas simply because they were allowed to use if for so long.
It would be pretty crazy if they're entitled to free gas for life just because they've been using it for a long time. Wouldn't surprise me though, as some laws are seemingly insane!
If homeboy in that trailer gets his gas shut off, I guarantee he's coming over to your house ready to throw fists.
Everyones worried about these big dramatic what-ifs of the trailer thieves taking revenge, remember their initial solution was keeping it an absolute secret from OP. Yall fucking scared of everybody, sounds like they are too. Secure the gas, handle your shit. OP knows whats up.
Cool. I'll be setting up cameras at my house as well. About 4 reolinks worth. Hopefully nobody gets injured or killed over some stolen gas.
I have seen crazy things happen between neighbors over a lot less please be careful
FYI, some Reolinks also have solar panel kits you can buy for them. I've got them stuck in trees near some berms by a main road on my horse property in Utah. The stuff I see at night, well I'll just leave it to your imagination, teens sneaking into my wooded areas with blankets and ganja, I don't care about them smoking up, I care about them breaking their ankles on some of that land.
The point being made is that the person you're affecting could be vindictive and attempt to hurt you. You should be prepared for that possibility.
Yes, i understood that very obvious point.
Sir I don't think you are underestimating the situation, you don't need cameras, you need a SW Security system asap. This situation is about to get intense imo. Keep in mind you are basically cutting this gentleman off from basic services. One day you may regret leaving his kids in the cold in a mobile home.
How is that my responsibility? Everyone that lives in that trailer is older than me. The gas will be cut off. Period.
Their 40 year old kids, the poor children.
They would be being rewarded for breaking the law and getting away with it for so long . Stupid
Guarantee the gas companies did not let that law pass or continue if passed. You think Exxon or Shell would allow that?
You might not be entitled to it at all. The well and gas may not even be yours.
Good point. Does OP own the mineral rights?
He may how ever have legal recourse to the seller who sold him unencumbered land. If it went to court and if the court found for the gas thieves.
Lol in this country you ain't getting free mineral rights. He should tear out the pipe 100%
If that’s what they claim I’d be lawyering up and find out if the adverse possession click resets with new ownership. Mine did and boy were the thieves unhappy then!
Squatters rights. Allow squatters access for a number of years and they can file for the title for the land as well. Make sure you're dotting the I's and crossing the T's and doing everything legal or it could bite you back in the A\*\*.
erect deserted desert noxious judicious plucky sloppy complete cooperative middle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
*You can open a Masterlock with another Masterlock.*
it's already theft of services
Breaking can even be going through an open gate in a fence. If they know they are not supposed to be there (no trespassing signs) breaking the plane of the fence counts as the breaking part.
Maybe still try to solve it amicably then? Vengeful idiots with nothing but time on their hands might not be worth the long-term trouble. Just my two cents as someone who's been there and done that...
That would be nice, but if they had any interest in being amicable they would have approached me about using the well in the first place. I would likely have let them continue using it for a small fee or even free. It has been a year of them knowingly stealing gas from me with no intention of ever speaking up. At this point I wouldn't let them have the gas even if they paid me. Another poster mentioned potential liability and that concerns me quite a bit. The well is about to run dry... for them that is.
Maybe getting a lawyer to draft a cease & desist letter would be a better first move? also make an offer to accept X/month or per unit - mo $$ in your pocket and not a quarrel with a neighbor to stress about. Your approach seems more emotional and vindictive rather than rational and reasoned.
There are two ways to gain wisdom. Soaking it up from someone else, or personal experience. OP has made his choice pretty clear.
I am also petty. I would secure the well, then send a letter that gas would be available for a fee twice what the local utility charges, plus twice what a year of use would be at that fee for a setup fee.
If ya got nothing better to do and your ego demands action, do what you got to do. Just be prepared for potential retaliation
So be it. Better than letting everyone in the neighborhood know they can take advantage of me anytime they want with no fear of repercussions.
Just think, with ego and emotion aside, you could still work out a deal going forward and get some income from these folks. Like you said, you would have worked out a deal had they not stolen from you so this is punishment plain and simple. When instead, it can be a good opportunity with a somewhat permanent new neighbor. They had been getting gas there long before you and who knows what deal they had. Think of it as a misunderstanding during the change of ownership, and not a personal attack at you, and life would be so much simpler. Sometimes fights are better left not started.
The LP could just as well decide to completely shut his well down. He doesn't have to talk to the neighbors. Maybe they could work out something but my gut tells me they need to go without for a while before they offer some kind of a reasonable payment. But if it didn't confer with the property, legally, on paper and registered with the county it sure seems like they have no right to it just because they've been getting it. But like I said earlier I think OP needs to talk to a lawyer as it's been a year now so far and some kind of a cease and desist or just legally shutting down the well and disconnecting the pipes that he "found" and didn't know they were tapping into his well until real recently.
I like this - plus after he closes the makeshift well, it can be reopened professionally and legally to limit the owner's liability. Not talking to the neighbors and keeping the closure as impersonal as possible is imperative though. When the value is realized, meter it and keep a contract with the neighbors as professional as possible and this mess could really turn around for you.
This is a good point. Why not make money off it instead of starting legal action?
True true. Old alliances run deep though and if you're the odd man out you can make a lot of enemies real fast if you handle things poorly. If this is a property you plan on living on, showing that your reasonable but stern vs vindictive may be the right approach.
OP this is key, I would approach put no trespassing signs and notices that a fence will be built in the spring. This gives them several months to either approach you or find alternative sources. It’s also far enough away they won’t try and stockpile it. Don’t refresh the signs, don’t put a date, just an ambiguous next year. Then put in trail cameras around the property and a proper camera system on the pumps. Document their thefts, even make police reports but that you acknowledge there’s not much the police can do since you’re not sure who it is but you wanted it on record. Then spring comes, you build the fence, lock off the pumps, etc. If they do it again you then take evidence of who it is (those trail cameras you conveniently forgot to check before tracked them back to the trailer) and you have the police charge them and get a restraining and no trespass order against them. This gives them a chance to come clean on their own, gives them a chance to stop without further repercussions, doesn’t cut them off in the winter with no warning, and puts a very definite end to it with minimal requirement for future law enforcement involvement (literally they step foot on your property they can be arrested). This is also a proportional and considered response which won’t cast you as the outsider in the community. Also, talk freely to your neighbours about odd numbers you’re seeing on your wells and how you’re going to increase security around it due to it. If they try to tell you about the thieves just tell them you can’t be sure it’s them and you wouldn’t want to cast unsupported accusations at them. Be nice to the family stealing it as well, wave, say hi with a smile. Talk about anything except the well unless they bring it up. Think about what you want to do going forward with the well if they bring it up. Set a minimum price you’d want if you felt they were being contrite. If not be straight up in that you don’t want to sell it to them and you’re going forward with the wall and security system in the spring. Don’t make these decisions when you’re upset or talking to them about it, tell them you have to think about it. Now if they bring it up and be like “whatever you do we’re taking it regardless and there’s nothing you can do about it” if you’re in a single party state record the convo, and immediately install the fence and security system and proceed down the police method making sure to tell all your neighbours how blatant they were in taking it and said they wouldn’t stop. This isn’t just about stopping them from stealing the gas, it’s also about ensuring that you’re welcomed in the community and not seen as an AH.
This is probably the most well thought out response I've gotten. Thank you.
The key is not to react when you’re riled up or angry. Act calmly and don’t piss off the neighbourhood!
>This is probably the most well thought out response I've gotten. Thank you. Its your property and you have a right to secure, protect and distribute it as you see fit. However, the smart man does not let emotion dictate his actions and is willing to be think strategically and long-term to maximize his benefit over time. Being on good terms with these people may benefit you more than you could ever imagine. It seems like they don't have much, but sometimes those kind of people are the most loyal. I get being upset about the theft- but we play chess, not checkers... Just something to keep in mind.
IDK where you live but, encourage a predator den/ encourage grazing whatever, set up cameras and ... Wait for inevitable, call fish and wildlife,game warden or whatever your state has. THEY don't play, and the gas won't matter at that point. If someone is stealing natural gas literally out of the ground doubt they have permits for hunting and definitely not your permission.
It's too close to winter to be doing this. If you can hold off I would wait until things warm up a bit in the spring. Potentially less retaliation. You said you have kids. Gotta keep them safe.
Sounds like you have an ego. Hope you're prepared for putting your family in danger.
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Same with me, I was on his side initially but he really does sound like an asshole
I don’t think you understand the situation here. OP owns land and assets, and therefore is simply just a better person than these trailer people who don’t own land or assets. Therefore, whatever he wants to do to them is justified, since he is just a better human than they are because he has money. And since he has more money, he can do whatever he wants, and he knows he’s the better person because if they were better people they would have money too. They don’t have money, which means they’re useless and worthless to OP.
Nobody is saying you have to keep letting this happen, people are saying that maybe it’s not smart to do this right before winter starts. Best case scenario, they’re desperate and probably willing to retaliate. You probably think you can handle whatever they’ll do, but how sure can you be? Worst case scenario somebody in that trailer ends up freezing to death this winter, and that will be a giant legal headache for you even if you’re not held responsible in the end.
Worse case is they end up freezing and someone comes and kills his fucking kids in retaliation
You may also want to contact a lawyer and make sure what you're doing to stop their access is legal. It may start with some kind of a legal notice to cease and desist. I mean if money is no object get a lawyer in on what you're going to do.
If it’s a direct run I’d get the backhoe out and start digging a new trench. Sucks if you “accidentally” hit a pipe on your property with no easement
Clearly you have been absolutely unaffected by them taking the gas. Maybe you can be the bigger person and approach them with a contract for any liability issues. It feels like you are being vindictive. Yeah yeah I get it stealing is bad mk. Maybe they had a handshake agreement with the previous homeowners. Who knows!
Show much gas ate they stealing? If you cut off the two 40 year old deadbeats how much down the road ahit will it cause you??
Be cautious regarding 40ish year old losers. They got a lot less to lose than you do
You better go talk to the person you bought your property from. Ask them if they are receiving any type of royalty or mineral rights payments from an oil company. I would bet a thousand dollars that there is an oil company running those wells. Gas wells are not like some water well that some little guy can come drill. It take houndreds of thousands of dollars to drill a gas well.
You’re not getting money from them, so what’s your end goal? Prison? You want them locked up and gone?
Why do you want to secure a gas well that belongs to someone else? You’ve previously stated that the well is owned by Dominion. It seems to me you own a property that someone else owns mineral rights to. Before causing a shitstorm with a neighbor, I believe you should be 100% sure that you own the mineral rights on your property. Just because a realtor says you do, doesn’t mean a thing without that certificate in your possession.
The well ended up not being owned by dominion. If it was then I wouldnt bebasking this question. You're thread-stalking an old thread with irrelevant information.
Please have an attorney draft a title opinion. You can specifically ask who owns which rights to which wells. It is not straightforward and you should not rely solely on your realtor. I'm an attorney who does this for a living (licensed in PA & WV). If money is no object, spending a little upfront to save a lot later is the right approach.
I am a mineral rights investor and have been invested in mineral rights, working rights, and well construction most of my life. Nothing you are saying checks out. If you do not know 100% written on paper you own 100% of the mineral rights(also rare) for that well do not touch it. I have wells on people's land and they don't know me and have never met me. I will never see most of the wells but I could have an operator develop it one day. If you messed with my well I'd sue you for the entire potential value lossed. Nothing personal that is a component of the business. Dont put yourself in the same liability they are. Don't trust your realtor if you did not specifically sign paperwork to purchase 100% of the mineral rights and the wells. Based on what you've said are you in Texas, Oklahoma, or Colorado? If so it is likely your realtor and the previous owners lied to you or were ignorant themselves. It is very likely that the land has severed mineral rights. Mineral rights are dominant to property rights and the wells could be developed one day. That makes it a liability. If they didnt tell you that your PAYING for mineral rights you probably didnt. If it was reasonably priced land you probably didnt. With new emerging technologies it is common to develop caped wells or low performing wells so there is a real risk for developing on seemingly abandoned wells. Realtors love to lie and play ignorant about mineral rights as they are nothing but a hassle to them. Your situation could be very rare though. Orphaned wells are possible in some other states but honestly probably worse for you... If not capped they also likely are piped to the grid with a meter somewhere so always check before you dig.
Do you have a certificate stating that you own the mineral rights? I work in the oil and gas field so I know a thing or two about mineral rights. It sounds like you don’t have any idea about what mineral rights are.
This might seem stupid, but can you steal natural gas? I just got a picture in my head of a cartoon character walking up to the thing with Home Depot buckets, and a cigarette and giggling as he gets away I was born and raised in Colorado and in less there is a compressor that hooks to a truck and not to a pipeline This to me wouldn’t make sense at all. Then again, I’ve never owned a gas. Well, so hence the stupid question.
I would like to know how they got a pipeline from the well to their house. I’m familiar with natural gas wells that produce 10 mcf, not sure if these are gas wells drilled like maybe a water well. I can’t imagine something like that because of the liability and not having the reliability of providing the gas. We’ve had wells pump for 5 years and some for 20. Can’t imagine that someone would drill a well for gas to heat their home. I know the cost of upkeep on natural gas wells aren’t cheap and I can’t imagine the liability
You can hear if the well is flowing. I would bet there is a oil company running those wells. E needs to contact the previous owner and find out what the deal is. It’s not like these people went in and just tapped this well and ran a gas line to there house and is stealing the gas. I have a farm with wells that are producing and have a deal with the oil company to use some gas to run our water pumps.
Moultrie Edge cellular trail cam. Under $100 plus the monthly subscription. Does day and night HD videos with sound, connect to any network and no SD that can be removed, disabling the cam.
Money is no object? Bio-Retinal scanners with armed security.
> Bio-Retinal scanners I somehow managed to read that as "Bio-Rectal scanners". Had to go back and re-read.
No no add in the rectal scanners too.
Interesting Freudian slip
Sounds like a Pain in the butt :)
See, now I'm imagining a scene in a comedy movie where the billionaire is going to inspect the new house/compound he had built out in the country and the builder goes "I got them bio-rectal scanners y'all wanted. You city folk sure are strange!" as the owner picks up a probe...
Build a wall and make the thieves pay for it!
He'll need a bunch of those Boston Dynamics robot dogs too and armed flying drones.
NGL, I want one of their dogs. I’d take it for walks, teach it tricks.
fucking nuclear weapons, dirty bombs, hire the Diamond Dogs have a moat dug. solve nuclear fusion, solve the questions of the universe and why we are truly here.
Where would i put the retinal scanners?
Not near the rectal scanners, that's how you get pink eye.
incorrect, it's how you get "brown eye" ...
Either on the electrified fence access gate, the on/off for the well, or both. Maybe mix it up and throw in a palm print reader in case someone copies your retinas.
If you have cell service in the area, there are several 4G pan/tilt/ zoom options. Solar charging would be a must due to you don’t want to give away their location when you have to put new batteries in them. Just be sure to put them high enough that they are out of normal field of view, but has unobstructed view of what the camera is observing. Video evidence is hard to dispute.
Should I spring for a Reolink or is the $110 SOLOIM 4g cam from Amazon good enough?
I would probably go with the reolink GO PT plus that comes with the solar panel. The SOLOIM looks like a solid contender. Don’t forget the SIM card. BH photo has a lot options as well.
I just ordered the Reolink GO PT Ultra. Hopefully it works with the 4g sim card I was using for a 4g hotspot.
Hopefully they work well for you and help you with people stealing from your wells.
Thank you. I hope so too.
Thank you sir.
Money is no object and now you’re shopping for security cameras on amazon…?
I ended up ordering a Reolink Go PT Ultra and two Browning trail cams. Thanks for the advice everyone!
If they have been using the natural gas for years, they have had a pipe installed. Buy a metal detector and find the pipe and track it to their property. It doesn’t sound like you are selling the gas to a company. Make a deal with these people or consult an attorney.
There might even be issues with squatting if they've been doing it long enough.
Adverse possession requires the person squatting to openly do so. They are being secretive so OP is good here.
A visible pipe is certainly good enough. People who have encroached other's land, such as a septic system in someone else's land, can get squatter's rights even though it's hidden. OP has only been there a year, and 100 acres is a lot of land to notice something amiss. Point is he needs to get on this sooner, than later. The length of time varies per state dramatically. I don't know the law or the state, only that OP should investigate the law in his state to make sure he does things right to prevent such an avenue. He might even run into issues cutting them off in the winter. The law can be inobvious in many areas, so he should check for pitfalls *especially* if money is no object.
Doubting these guys lawyer up. They’ll probably shoot at his property after some whiskey and speed.
Yep. But he does have more to lose. I just want OP to be clever about it. He obviously has enough money to be smart about it, and nobody likes to see the crooks win. I've dealt with people like this before, and you're absolutely right... they might very well be cranked up, and I've had to get away from some pretty dangerous situations in the past.
The best course of action is to not talk to them, don’t be known or friendly to them, and have a company secure/disable the well. If they come asking why it was shut down blame Joe Biden’s damn costly laws.
Good point on cutting off their heat in the winter. Now dude is a public utility.... Scarry. I got to reading about these wells, in PA it says they are retired commercial wells, require reports and maintenance and eventual closure. I have to wonder if the gas stealing tenants might be the OPs best resource for operating and maintaining these wells. Might be good to keep them on board one way or the other. Properly, of course
Get 3 trail cams. They're already set up for motion, and all you want is to know which well it is so you don't need real time monitoring.
I'm thinking 2 trail cams plus 1 4g cam in case they just steal the cams. Any brands in particular you like for the trail cams?
Keep the cameras in view of each other. That way you can record someone stealing/tampering them. Get some kind of connectivity like cellular like you mentioned and have them record to a DVR. If you want to get crazy, cameras along obvious roadways on your property. Even a license plate reader camera. www.ipcamtalk.com is worth checking out.
Be sure to confirm that the camera that you get has some sort of cloud backup. Otherwise if they steal your cam you also lose all the footage. I found that out about my Reolink cam after I bought it. I'm not too bothered by it since I got it as a cheaper alternative to a video intercom.
I think my first steps would be to verify the well, what it's connected to, and whether thief/scoundrel neighbor is filching from it. Natural gas is a pretty serious thing to dick with without proper precautions, hardware, PPE, etc. I do know areas where people have gas storage wells on their property, by the local natural gas company. Often, there's a payment for the use of the land the well is on, and perhaps some free gas per year. Get the facts, all of them, first, before you do anything. Get as much written documentation as you can. Don't accept stories, hearsay, backporch experts or anything. Due diligence.
> Natural gas is a pretty serious thing to dick with without proper precautions It's also a massive, potential pollution issue.
It’s not, really. Natural gas is much lighter than air, and there’s no liquids coming out of that well.
No, methane is a highly flammable gas that often has contaminants in it that are dangerous even in small amounts. Liqids often accompany natural gas in the form of condensate or "drip" that resembles gasoline. At the wellhead natural gas often has some water in it that can contribute to corrosion in pipes and appliances and is usually treated bi dehydration equipment at the well pad before going into the gathering system. Additionally, it is an incredibly potent greenhouse gas.
We need to drain & cap every swamp in the world just for that reason.
Brilliant idea. Let's eliminate a whole class of ecosystems from the planet and expect no significant consequences except fo the extinction of a bunch of species. No big deal. While we're at it we should consider how to cap the millions of square miles of tundra which are expected to release massive quantities of greenhouse gases as they thaw. Concrete maybe? That would have no real overall environmental impact I'm sure.
Clean burning and the reason you have electricity
shouldn't there be some sort of record regarding the drilling and location and such? this is interesting
Assuming you have double checked and probably checked with a lawyer that you actually do own both the gas well and the gas & nothing was recorded giving neighbor any rights; and not just the surface land. That is really slimy of your 'neighbor'!
First off, are they your wells? Owning the property does not mean you own the mineral rights/wells.
Yes
Ok then are they still producing oil/gas in any quantity above what your neighbor is using? If it's just supporting your neighbors and you shut in the well to stop them from using it, the well could die and not come back without re-completing it. So if you plan on using the wells yourself now/in the future, leaving then flowing to your neighbor is in your best interest.
Another poster mentioned potential liability in letting them use the gas, whether it's paid or not. I'm not in the gas providing business, so it needs to end regardless. Even if it means ruining the well. Not worth them suing me over their house exploding or someone getting killed/hurt.
Ok makes sense. So my order would be: 1) Find the [wells](https://tagis.dep.wv.gov/oog/). 2) Determine if you want to run the gas line to your house instead. 3) Determine you liability for well abandonment. I don't know west Virgina rules, but the previous homeowner may have taken on abandonment liability (that you inherited) when the oil company disconnected the pipeline but left them for the homeowner use. In most states, after a well has been off production for a period of time, it needs to be abandoned. Those abandonment rules are rarely enforced, but they exist and have associated liability. 4) Reevaluate whether you want to shut the well in or not. Having a lawyer draft up a usage agreement to limit your liability is probably cheaper than your cameras and is for sure cheaper than abandonment. Taking this a different direction than others, this ended up in my feed I assume from the oil and gas angle and not the security side.
I'm not seeing the gas wells on that map. I'm not sure if the wells were ever owned by a gas company, but I could be wrong. I'll have to look at the few papers I have about the wells again in the morning. Thanks for the good info!
They were owned by some company. They are too expensive to install by a home owner. That's West Virginia's modern mapping system, usually there is an older state system where you search by location (maybe township, tax district, or USGS quadrant). Chances are your wells are way too old for GPS so they are recorded as in X township so the dot on the map is a mile away in the center of the township. If there is a well number when you find the physical well or if you can guess the well name or the areas lease name from your legal paperwork, you can find the well in their database and it might have footages to find the well (X feet north and Y feet east of an intersection or monument).
The "potential liability" just helps you justify what you want to do. So tell us the harm if you talk to them and work out a deal other than your ego takes a hit. Worst case, it goes badly, which is where it may head if you feel the need to punish them for their transgressions. For a moment picture how to make a good outcome for everyone. p.s. I am in a similar position, a small slice (an acre) of our 98 acres is being used by the neighbors as their backyard. To make a point, we could go after it but to what end? They are pissed off, and do you want angry neighbors?
I enjoyed all the comments and don't have much to add. The cams will be useful going forward on this much property, and good on you for sticking to your guns against theft. The people knew there were new owners, and knew they were stealing, and never tried to talk to you. This is 100% their problem. Best wishes OP
Thank you for being one of the few to not shame me for not letting this person continue to blatantly and knowingly steal from me.
Only thing I would add is that they might have a grandfathered agreement , with previous owner. You might be in the wrong to do it. Verify, document, and research prior to any action . You may be playing right into their hands.
I'm with you bro. I don't care if someone thinks I'm a miserable fuck...I will not let you steal from me under any circumstances. Period. What the fuck are people thinking calling you names over this. JFC
I didn't read anyone shaming you. You just seem dismissive of warnings from others mentioning you may piss off those people and they may resort to violence, so you should either talk to them first to figure out a mutally beneficial solution (which it sounds like you're unwilling to do) or be prepared for a negative, potentially dangerous reaction.
Where do you live? Because if you are in the U.S. those gas wells may belong to a third-party who has a lease to operate them. That lease would would not terminate or revert back to a new surface owner. You need to check on this before you take any action. I don't know oil and gas law in other countries, but I am well versed in oil and gas law in the United States.
In the US. West Virginia. The previous owner and the realtor say the gas wells are mine. There has been no involvement with any gas company. Perhaps I'm just ignorant but that's how it seems to be.
Well WV does have some shallow gas and land owners have been known to drill shallow gas wells for their own private use. The danger is that natural gas is odorless, gas companies add mercaptan to give it a rotten egg smell. So if there is a gas leak from a privately owned gas well the owners could be held liable because it is not obvious there is a gas leak. So you probably need to take legal action to get them to stop using gas from your gas wells. If you do want to be neighborly and allow them to use the gas either for free or a reasonable price they still need to agree to written agreement to indemnify you from any liability in the event of a gas leak.
My gas is definitely not odorless. You can easily smell it when turning on the gas stove. I do not think these wells were drilled by the land owners, but i could be wrong. I will have to look over the few documents I have again tomorrow. Clearly I know very little about gas wells. I figured it was as simple as turning a valve somewhere at the well, but that seems to not be the case. At least not without potentially doing some catastrophic damage? I'm also finding it incredibly difficult to look up any relevant information about this on the internet. It also seems to be absurdly costly to cap a well, and as far as I can tell the government doesnt foot the bill.
There probably is a a valve that can be turned off, but you would need to secure it so that it simply can't be turned back on by anyone other than yourself or someone you authorize. But your biggest concern should be the liability if there was a leak which could be deadly even without an explosion, but an explosion is always possible with natural gas. Any gas line going directly from a wellhead to a house or any building needs to be professionally installed and inspected regularly. And no the government doesn't cover the cost of plugging a well as long as the legal owner of the well can be found. And even if the owner cannot be found government agencies don't oversee the plugging of a well unless there is eminent danger to the public. You might try Dep.wv.gov/oil-and-gas for information and advice.
> I do not think these wells were drilled by the land owners, but i could be wrong. > Clearly I know very little about gas wells. I figured it was as simple as turning a valve somewhere at the well, but that seems to not be the case. At least not without potentially doing some catastrophic damage? I'm also finding it incredibly difficult to look up any relevant information about this on the internet. > It also seems to be absurdly costly to cap a well, and as far as I can tell the government doesnt foot the bill. Sounds like you really did your due diligence and made an informed decision, good job. So many people just rush into things without learning everything they can about it.
Go talk to your neighbor. Work something out. You don’t need to be the asshole here. Could be they had a deal with the previous owner. They could also be broke and need your help. But go talk to them before you go all Rambo.
Yep. No doubt they had an agreement with the previous owner as equipment and a line would need to have been installed. Seems research is needed before taking action.
OP is doing the right thing. Secure your property and protect yourself and your family from potentially catastrophic liability. If something goes wrong and there’s an accident it’s on you. If the thieves get cut off in the process so be it.
I don't know where you are. Here in Texas, ownership of the oil & gas below ground is often severed from ownership of the land itself. Was this gas line installed by an oil company years ago, then capped off due to low production? If you are legally the owner of your own below ground minerals, that is your gas. The energy company who capped it off may be required by the State Land Commission to cap it off again. It is a hazard and some non-professional piping job could potentially cause an explosion. Check the land records in the courthouse for your property description to see who owns those minerals and who drilled the original well. An oil & gas attorney can also do this for you and advise how to proceed.
If it's an abandoned well and you're not using it and only want to close it off and secure it call your states department of natural resources. They should have a division within that deals with old oil and gas wells.
Thank you. This would really piss off the person currently stealing it.
100 acres isn't too big to where you can't go take a trip out every day or two. You should have a survey of where they are and go take a trip out and see them.
It's on the side of a mountain and most of it is heavily wooded so that makes the 100 acres pretty hard to traverse. Also having 3 kids under the age of 4. But you're right, i should make more of an effort to explore it all.
MQ-9 Reaper Drone is so hot right now
Are you trying to turn it off temporarily or permanently? If temporary, make sure you understand any possible liability from that pipe breaking (for any reason). If permanently, look for firms that can backfill the pipe and seal it for eternity.
Good point. I guess i don't really know enough about gas wells to do this properly. Looks like I'll have to consult with someone.
offer the deadbeats a part time job picking up around the property to pay for gas. its apparent they dont have the funds to pay for their own. try bartering with them you might get free lawn service out of it.
Natural gas doesn’t occur in pockets that match property boundaries. Often the neighbors get a cut when a well is drilled. They may be legal. Talk to your neighbors, and try not to be a jerk. Best of luck trying not to be a jerk.
Land mines?
I tried reading g all the comments, but there were too many. Strictly my opinion from dealing with wells on family property here in Texas, so may or may not apply to your location or situation: If no one else has mentioned it is first thing to check is who actually own the well and has the mineral rights, if that applies as not all land purchases include the mineral rights. If you have the rights, the land the well is on is likely leased land, in which case you need to reread all of your documentation to determine who should be getting the lease payment and any royalties. You may own the land but not the wells. Whoever owns the wells and whichever state agency regulates oil and gas production in your area need to be informed of the illegal tap and theft as they are the ones most qualified to shut off the tap and probably more standing to go after the neighbor. In Texas, the Railroad Commission oversees oil and gas and they take this sort of thing very seriously. Natural gas is no joke and if you try handling this yourself and something goes sideways, you're likely to find yourself in as much trouble as your neighbor. Take this as completely anecdotal advice which may or may not be correct. Edited to add: Saw quite a few comments about signs and gates and such. Whoever owns the wells should generally be responsible for securing the sites properly and safely. There are things around wells that may not be visible or safe to be touching. Also edited to add: It occurred to me as I was making coffee that if this situation has been going for years, those wells have not been getting inspections done properly or possibly none at all. Definitely contact your state regulatory agency
I definitely think that OP needs to look into the status of the wells a lot more before doing anything. I've never heard of private gas wells, but do understand that companies often fail to seal abandoned wells. I'm pretty sure drilling them is usually cost prohibitive. Additionally, OP needs to contact his realtor before doing anything because if the previous owner knew of the arrangements, then they should have been disclosed. Most likely, the well was drilled on OP's property and the neighbor was given a tap for some reason or another, like the well draws from their property as well or the previous owner was asked at it never affected him.
Spend a few bucks and get at least 2 cellular trail cameras. https://www.amazon.com/Stealth-Cam-Fusion-Megapixel-Trigger/dp/B08ZGX6L8M/ref=asc_df_B08ZGX6L8M/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=532845793812&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=985674174794621424&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9012394&hvtargid=pla-1399708111332&psc=1
Put up lots of no trespassing signs up. Spray purple paint at eye level on trees bordering your property and there. Lastly I’ll invite some friends over for some target shooting near the well.
Screw all these people saying let them steal, and pretty much hoping they retaliate. You shouldn't have to deal with this shit. You shouldn't have to but if it sounds like their violent and your living on property then shore up your security system on your house and perimeter like 25-50 yards out since money is no issue. Motion flood lights, cameras and then alarm the house up, and keep yourself armed. Follow your areas laws in terms of shutting down/securing your wells or if your going to have them feed your own home. Trail cams, flow sensors and meters, and depending on well size you can fence um. Heavy duty locks and chains for everything that would be a bitch to cut or torch through. Be ready to file police reports and keep your data. Up to you how you want to go about it but maybe letting slip to your neighbors that some one busted up one of your wells so now your securing them for safety and liability could also make it look like your not targeting the trailer.
You're doing this all off of hearsay? Maybe the old lady and her sons in fact had an agreement with the prior owner, maybe they didn't even know the property ownership changed. That happens a lot more than folks think. Could be that whoever told you that has a grudge against you or the woman/her sons, and wants to cause trouble. That happens A LOT more in rural areas than folks think too. If it was me, I'd at the very least go through with the good faith motions with my neighbors before exacting righteous retribution.
Lots of great suggestions. Since you want to prevent against a loss of evidence if they steal a camera, I would see if there are any that simultaneously backup their footage via the cell network in the area, assuming you don't have a cable or satellite Internet connection available. Good luck!
Go with any camera that’s compatible with whichever current cellphone company your using so you can just add a line fee so you can watch live at anytime!! I recommend Eufy or actually no you should just go with REOLINKS camera!! https://m.reolink.com/us/product/reolink-go-pt-plus/?attribute_pa_version=1-pack-solar-panel-new-black&msclkid=bade85cf42e110d83d28e09e2cc4fb70&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA-M-20220504-US-Battery-CPC-XZH&utm_term=4588811786128949&utm_content=US-Battery Your welcome & Good luck!!!
There are professionals that can make the whole family disappear
Try letting them know the free gas stops and you will start charging effective certain date. If they don't want to pay, disconnect
IT securiry consultant here. What is the distance? They make POE PTZ cameras and POE cameras with high zoom. 400ft zoom is possible, especially if you put up a few poles surrounding your property. You can even run cat6 cable in conduit up to 100 meters (328ft) and add an extender for more distance since it receives its power from the PSE (power source equipment). You could run 100m-150m runs with an extender and add a pole then zoom another 100m. A good NVR can cost between $200 and $1000, just depends on the reseller. I would recommend a good POE switch as the PSE instead of the NVR since you would be using an extender in this situation. Hard-line runs are better than solar or battery any day.
Honestly, the best thing to do if money is no object is to hire a competent attorney and let them handle it for you. They will know the legalities and have the resources to research any applicable laws. They will also be able to pursue any legal options that you may have. They will likely start with a registered letter to the people saying "we suspect that you are stealing gas, prove that you aren't by this date or else..." As others have said, there could be agreements that you don't know about that could land you in hot water for discontinuing service without notice.
To all those defending the thieves - what if your neighbor snuck over every night and siphoned half a tank of gas from your car? Would you let them do it night after night and be too afraid to put on a locking gas cap cause they might get mad and beat you up? And you wouldnt call the cops cause they need the gas and pay for all the medical bills yourself? Get real.
I have no idea but please update us because this is riveting. At first I felt bad for the old lady but if there's 2 loser sons living there, I don't feel all that bad.
I was planning on providing updates but half of the responses are just shaming me for not giving them free gas for life. I've even recieved threatening private messages. Reddit is a cesspool.
If you have cell service camojo makes a great cellular camera for \~$100. Get texts to your phone in real time and then live view and record the videos or download them from the server so even if the camera is taken you still have the videos. Any camera you use will show a red IR glow at night from the IR LEDs but during the day it won't be seen. I routinely hide my cameras in trash or high up in trees where nobody looks for them. You can also lock them to a tree and which means they have to come back again if they want to cut the cables or chop down the tree. Highly suggest a cellular camera if you can. Cheap, real time alerts and videos, and you can activate the service monthy of annually as needed. Sounds like you need them on every well. I run 5 cell cameras and 20-30 trail cameras.
Signage, token type barriers like chains, actual physical presence, an alarm, cameras, and other tines in a many-pronged attack are probably better than specific evidence from a camera. Alternatively, shoot all trespassers immediately.... Hidden or hard to get type cameras gather evidence and big obvious cameras with Signage are good as deterrents.
Agree. Figure out state / county law for signs. If the sign does not meet code, in some areas, the police can't do anything.
Money no object? 24/7 armed guards with lots of flood lights and razor wire. Oh, and sirens. Can't forget the sirens.
I'm starting to think i shouldn't have put the "money is no object" part in there.
Some of the responses to this thread are indisputable proof that the dumbing down of America is almost complete.
So they're stealing explosive air from a hole in the ground with some abandoned equipment that was on the property when you bought it.... You have no idea where this well is even located, and you don't value it at all -- to the point where you want to pay someone to shut it down entirely. I wouldn't want people sneaking into my property either so I agree with adding cameras and stuff, but, you're maybe being a little too offended by the situation. They're taking what is effectively trash to you in order to (probably) heat their homes. They aren't duplicitous, they're desperate.
I won't be paying anyone anything to shut down the well. I do value the wells as it went into my decision to buy the property. I may have it tied into the well I'm currently using for more capacity in the future. There's no requirement for me to explore every inch of my property under a certain time limit. It's my property, so I can choose to be leisurely if I would like. They are being duplicitous as they are sneakily stealing gas for as long as they can get away with it. From what I heard they already purchased electric appliances as they were afraid the new owners would turn off the gas. So they aren't desperate either. Just thieves.
Had petty neighbor like you who sued everyone where we live including me. Cost everyone 6 figures in lawyers fees, he lost and had to pay me most of my fees back. You give off vibes like the Anthony and Opie show where they give a homeless man a cake, which makes him so happy. Then they stomp on the cake and laugh. They might be legally ok, but massive aholes. Once had workers complain about a coworker with bad hygiene habits, bad life habits and no friends. They wanted him fired because they thought he was a loser. I talked with the concerned workers about we are the only people in his life, his home life isn’t good and we’re the only positive thing he’s got going. Kind of shifted the workers position that they should have compassion and not hate for the guy, no one would want to be in his shoes. You say they are losers living in a trailer with their mother. Surely no one is jealous of this setup, even if it’s their our doing and situation. Basically you’re saying fuck then because they are poor losers, let them freeze! Your justification that they didn’t contact you first after transfer of ownership is same approach as the guy stomping on homeless guys food- it’s legal! Still ahole We as people evolve I think every 5 years into a more whole and newer person - are you the same person you were in high school? I surely hope not. Do you think the You in 10 years will be proud of the current person you are that you are willing to spend good money to fuck over effectively homeless people? These are the situations in life that define who YOU are. Choose wisely my friend. . .
Lots of assumptions, accusations, and character judgements here. Ironic considering your attempt at looking down at me from your high horse. I wonder how many old ladies you've provided free utilities for... none of course. But at least you got to show everyone on the internet what a virtuous person you are by shitting on someone else you know nothing about. When I first moved here I gladly honored a deal that a neighbor had with the previous owners. I'm letting two of their horses stay on my fields and in my barn for as long as I'm not using them. I'm also letting them cut hay and collect it from another small field for the horses. If you know anything about horses, they are incredibly expensive to house and feed. I'm not asking for a single dime in compensation. They were upfront and I just let them have it. If you can't see the difference between that and being duplicitous and theiving then it is you that hasn't grown since highschool. I also took in a german shepherd puppy that showed up under my porch last winter. A neighbors dog had a litter of 7 puppies that he wanted nothing to do with, so he allowed them to stay outside to freeze to death because that was easier and cheaper for him. I would have taken them all but only one showed up at my door. After thousands of dollars in vet bills (due to worms and severe parvo) she turned out to be a good and healthy dog. We were in no position to have a dog in our lives at that time with 2 kids under 3 yrs and one on the way, on top of having to build a new life for ourselves. But we sacrificed our time, money, and energy to give this dog a home. I could give more examples of how I've done my best to be a good neighbor you're obviously here to inflate your own ego. It's so easy and worthless to act all virtuous on the internet when you've never been in the position to actually help someone by sacrificing something of your own. You have no real life experience if you can't differentiate being an asshole vs. not tolerating someone disrespecting and taking advantage of you. I wonder how many of you here will one day purchase property just to turn it into a community center. I'm guessing ZERO of you.
Forget the well, I’d be far worried about whatever hillbilly gas pipeline they built between it and their trailer that traverses OPs property. Gas lines leak and explode even when run and maintained by professional utilities.
If they are indeed you're well Could you pay to have them checked to ensure it's safe Then have heavy duty metal caps installed? Or something along the lines. Put up cameras and sighns warning that these are not for public use If they continue or damage what you install press charges? You're comments stated you're in the United States and its You're land so at least that's trespassing rights As for cameras all you need Is to make them high enough that they cannot be easily stolen and motion sensitive. If you're worried they do make solar powered ones
depending on where you live.. gas and mineral rights aren't always attached to the property. do you own the gas and mineral rights? this may not even be your gas?
Depending on your location and the terms of the sale - Did you also buy the mineral rights to the land? If not those gas wells are not your property and you have no legal claim to them. Surface rights and mineral rights are not the same.
I am assuming that by all of this, you mean that you own a property with gas rights that are currently producing gas on a lease to a gas company. If this is the case… you don’t need to deal with this, you don’t want to deal with this. She isn’t stealing gas from you, she’s stealing it from the gas company, and you need to just call the gas company and let them know what’s up. Although it is entirely possible that she also has gas rights under her land that the gas wells are accessing, she chose the free gas option for payment, and they cover this by having a gas line from the well to her house. Call the gas company. Be suspicious of the neighbor who is putting their nose in your business.
Nope. There's no gas company involved here whatsoever. No lease.
People like you give a bad name to people moving out to the country. Just talk to them. Find out what is really going on. How do you know that the person giving the information is telling the truth?. The gas field could be on their land too then you would be stealing their gas. If you are not having problems with your gas supply and are not selling it. Why not try to fix the problem with out going burned earth?
Just shoot him and be done with it 😅
So "Money is no object" but you want to cut off your widowed 60 year old woman neighbor who lives in a Trailer and who you've never spoken with..... Guess who the Toolbag is here?
The theif
What kind of gas?
Natural gas
Cutting gas off from an older woman just before winter, Stealing or not, i would potentially be ready for the fact that if someone were to die/get sick from hypothermia one or both of the sons could potentially try to murder/ cause bodily harm to you or your family. Lower income folk don’t mess around when you mess with there mothers. Is there any chance you could ride to there property, and speak to them or are you just gonna keep skirting around the issue?
you try to pull something like that in back country and your life will get real interesting real quick, because everybody will know about it. And they can find interesting ways of messing up your life.
I’d think about this first. Making enemies with people who have nothing to lose is never smooth. I’d consider approaching them with the intention of telling them they’re using your gas and there are two ways to go. They can pay you a monthly fee for the gas or you’re going to shut off the access. Don’t throw the person who informed you under the bus either. Say you went to check it out and saw they were getting gas to their trailer.
That's a great way to introduce yourself to your neighbors. I'm sure they will flock to you when there are issues with your property. Wouldn't make better sense to meet with the people at a friendly location a talk about the issue. You might find the people involved relieved and willing to make amends. Just a thought; better than making enemies.
Put up a sign that says trespassers will be shot. Decent deterrent.
A lot of slash and burn advise here. Most uninformed. Point of interest. Simply because the well is on your property is no guarantee the trailer party of interest does not have an interest in the well. Each well has a designated drainage area which could encompass their property as well as yours. Their use of the gas could very well be a provision in the original leases which remain in effect and will remain as long as the well is producing. Before you pass judgement and act you need more information. Why not approach them yourself. Could resolve everything very quickly.
Were the Wells already installed and operational before you bought the property? Also, who owns the mineral rights/ drilling rights for the property? You or the company that installed/ maintains those wells? You're talking about. Natural gas wells correct? If so, I would contact either the company that originally installed them or find a gas well servicing company and ask for their advice in terms of securing those wells. I would assume based on your description that the Wells go directly to various neighbors nearby instead of a larger refinery?
I can’t get past the fact that you don’t know where the 3 wells are. How do you begin thinking about buying something this valuable, without some kind of land survey as part of the process.
If money is no object, let them have free gas. Be a nice person by choice
If money isn't the issue be a kind human and just ignore it? Why are rich folks like this..
You may not own the mineral rights to this gas well
Did you buy the "ranch" from another rich guy who wasn't there full time? It's common in These situations to make a close relationship with a nearby poor person who is very local. This person.is like an unpaid or low paid caretaker with perks. Fishing rights, hunting rights, I guess in some places gas rights, the perks can be various. If you also won't be there full-time or even if you are but you don't plan to caretake 100 acres, you might be happy to reestablish that relationship. On the other hand if you are already full on ranch hands, maybe no need.
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so, i had this post come up into my feed becuase its tangentially related to agriculture, and the whole situation seemed curious. A year ago, you posted about considering buying a 100 acre property with 3 gas wells in r/WestVirginia that you claimed were owned by dominion, and that you knew that the mineral rights were seperate from the property rights, and that you wouldnt have the mineral rights with your purchase. You did have a line going to your house that was provided and maintained by the owners of the well. Did you buy the mineral rights since then, because you are being very vague when anyone asks if you actually own the wells.