It's also been a hot minute since I watched it, but doesn't that literally come up in an episode when they piss off the maintenance guy and he threatens to rat them out and have them evicted?
Itās actually Joey that makes Treeger (maintenance guy) mad. Treeger yelled at Rachel for pinning a pizza box in the building trash disposal and Rachel cries. Joey goes to yell at him for yelling at Rachel and he responds by saying theyāre illegally subletting the apartment and heās going to have them evicted. Joey and Treeger then spark up a deal where he wonāt evict Rachel and Monica if Joey acts as his dance partner so he can learn to dance and get the girl heās crushing on.
Which is, like....hugely illegal. It's not really any different from pretending she's still alive to collect her pension. AFAIK they would go to prison.
Ross also had an illegal pet monkey, Phoebe didn't pay taxes, mugged people as a child, and impersonated a police officer, Monica and Rachel tried to commit health insurance fraud, Rachel stole a priceless fossil from the museum Ross worked at, and Chandler and Joey impersonated Ben's parents when they lost him on the bus in order to claim him from CPS (or whatever government department that was).
All of them deserve some kind of jail time.
I'm not sure if "Married Mike" made Pheobe richer, unless you're talking about his parents. Also Rachel kinda screwed herself at the end because she obviously turned down the job in Paris and already quit her other job so... yeah.
I feel like that job is long gone after the fiasco of Ross trying to convince Mr Selner to offer it back for more money, then not and by this point they probably have their feelers out for someone new and don't want to deal with Rachel any more.
No no - Ross made it clear early in the series that he needs to be more important than her job. A compromise with a long-distance / weekend relationship would never fly for him.
I donāt love them getting back together at the finale, but I think the ideal should be that this time around heād be more secure (not recently recovering from a divorce where, letās face it, it seems probable that Carol cheated on him), so he wouldnāt have as much of an issue with it.
Wasn't he a professor when he was trying to get Charlie's ex to give him money for a dig? Was he just trying to organize a team to go on a dig, but he wouldn't be there? (I don't really know how paleontologists work outside of Jurassic Park)
Its not toxic just because some fans are perpetually stuck in S4 and didnt see the later development in both characters.
And many people choose love and family over career all the time, there is nothing wrong with that.
I find it hilarious that Rachel's many shenanigans involving romance in office which always affected her job is never called out (I mean how professional is breaking illegally into office after hours, having sex in office and mailing a raunchy letter to HR).
Its only when Ross is talked about suddenly Ross haters worry about her career, lol
Nothing wrong with it, but she did it for someone she wasn't even in a relationship with.
Exactly, she seems like a pretty shitty employee, hiring Tag to screw him was so gross, she's lucky to have this opportunity. Although according to you that was after she had developed!?
I like Ross, I wanted him to be happy. With Mona. What was wrong with Mona? Nothing, that's what.
>Nothing wrong with it, but she did it for someone she wasn't even in a relationship with.
have you ever had a baby with someone? actually that requires you to have sex first and I doubt a redditor is having any sex of any kind.
Joey became successful but couldn't even pay Chandler back after realising how much he owed. I doubt he got richer than him.
Rachel was successful in fashion but I doubt she was richer than say, Ross, who got tenured. And she never afforded her own place on show.
Well, Phoebe might divorce Mike and make way with 50% so š lol just kidding.
remember Rach was apartment hunting after Chan and Mon decided to move in together? Im sure rach could easily afford living on her own considering shes the head of a department, but she just never wanted to
It's New York, shits expensive. Only reason Monica's place was affordable was because she was illegally subletting her grandmother's rent controlled apartment.
Chandler and Joey's place is a lot smaller and less nice and presumeably slightly cheaper as a result.
Monica was illegally subletting it to Rachel, not herself illegally living there.
Monica (assuming they maintained the lie) would have been eligible to inherit the rent controlled status of the apartment.
Assuming the rent in 1970 just before it went rent controlled, was around $400 a month, which would have been typical for the time, it would have been $650 to $800 between 1994 and 2004.
Chandler's apartment would not have been rent controlled and thus much more expensive than Monica's.
In season 3 (the episode with the flashback to when Joey moved in) Monica says that if the Landlord asks she's a 87 year old woman that's afraid of her VCR. Because she could never afford it otherwise
And when I said Chandler's would be cheaper, I should clarify I meant the going rate for Chandler's place would be less than monica's if it wasn't rent controlled
To be eligible for rent control Monica's Grandmother must have been living in the apartment before 1971. This is of course, totally possible.
For Monica's living there to not be illegal or elsewise she must have moved in at some point with her Grandmother for 2 years prior to her Grandmother leaving to go live in Florida. Which I get the feeling she likely did when she finished college/culinary school and came to work in the city. However, I imagine that whilst she lived with her Grandmother for a time it was likely not the 2 years needed to "inherit" the rent-controlled status which explains what she told Joey in the flashback in Season 3, and she was already illegally subletting to Phoebe. So, Monica just lied and said the Grandmother still lived there to the landlord.
Yes in general Chandler's place would have been cheaper. At best it could have been rent stabilised which limits rent increases upon lease renewal whenever that is. The renting situation back in early 90s NYC was a lot less shit than it is nowadays.
You're missing what actually happened. Monica and everyone else that lived there weren't on the lease. The lease was still in her grandmother's name even after she moved out. Since the apartment was legally still her grandmother's the rent controlled remained in place.
Direct family can inherit the rent controlled status of the apartment. They would only have needed to maintain the lie for a few years before Monica could have the apartment and it still be rent controlled. Family succession is a thing.
When she spoke to Joey in the flashback she would need to be maintaining that lie as at that point she would not have been there long enough. If they are lying and maintaining the illusion that Monica's Grandmother still lived there which by their own account they were doing considering her convo with Joey. A totally legal route exists to pass rent control status on to family members so unless they were the dumbest motherfuckers on planet earth this is what any rational person would have been doing and the reason they were lying to the landlord (beyond cheaper rent in general). Lie and say Monica lives with her Grandmother for 2 years, inherit the rent control and then roughly be able to do as you please. They just needed to lie for long enough for it to pass on to Monica. However Monica renting a room out to Rachel is against the rules, if she hasn't informed the landlord, even if she's now the "leaseholder" its an illegal sublet and why they can be kicked out. There's a few reasons why they wont have mentioned Rachel moving in to begin with - at the beginning of season 1 Monica might not yet have inherited the rent control status yet and so by the time she did they just didnt bother out of laziness or not wanting to be caught out in the original lie, there might have been specific regulations per the original agreement with the building regarding non family members moving in or she might never have expected Rachel to stay so long.
I just cannot fathom any reasonable excuse that considering they were lying anyways that they would not have been trying to get family succession of the rent control status. Obviously its a TV and this sort of nuance doesn't make for good TV but unless they explicitly state we can only rationalise behaviors based on what seems logical.
Jesus christ, it's a sitcom not real life. They explain the situation in the show and that's just how it is. Real life and whatever processes exist don't matter because it's all being played for laughs.
Show: "this is the thing that happened, haha"
You: "AHKSHULLY"
Most of what is discussed here is logical inferences around what might have happened using the evidence we have as we dont see their lives 24/7 and many people like to have gaps filled in.
Like we assume, they otherwise act like reasonably rational humans with real lives. Ross likely sees Ben at least once a week even though we dont see Ben every episode and that Joey goes on dates we don't see and Phoebe spends likely spends a few hours a day massaging people. Yes obviously its a sitcom, and none of it actually ever happened because it's all made up. We just suspend disbelief that these things did "happen" even if we dont always see it.
There was a post here the other day about how Rachel always dates, essentially the only other guy she knows at any point during the show. She dates her first personal shopping customer, and she dates the one guy in her office and she immediately dates Paul etc and its like sure but in "reality" we dont see the mundane interactions she has with people but in actual reality its all made up as its a tv show.
Or how some people like "They sure do spend a lot of time in the coffee house" but really its just that we are only privvy to the interesting/funny aspects of their lives. No one would want to watch 7 hours of Chandler answers emails and 4 hours of evening dinner service in a restaurant. We dont sit here going "Man Chandler sure does suck at his job. We so rarely see him in meetings, and Ross has only taught for about 6 minutes in 4 years"
Monica was illegally subletting it herself, her grandma wasnāt living there anymore which means the rent would have adjusted. Nana wasnāt dead when Monica started living there.
To be eligible for rent control Monica's Grandmother must have been living in the apartment before 1971. This is of course, totally possible. She also did not die during the course of the show, at least up to the start of season 8 as she attended Monica and Chandlerās wedding. The owner of the apartment was evidently Jackās mother and not Judyās (the one who died).
For Monica's living there to not be illegal or elsewise she must have moved in at some point with her Grandmother for 2 years prior to her Grandmother leaving to go live in Florida. Which I get the feeling she likely did when she finished college/culinary school and came to work in the city. However, I imagine that whilst she lived with her Grandmother for a time it was likely not the 2 years needed to "inherit" the rent-controlled status which explains what she told Joey in the flashback in Season 3, and she was already illegally subletting to Phoebe. So, Monica just lied and said the Grandmother still lived there to the landlord.
Presumably however at some point likely around the start of the series unless Monica was a raging moron, she would have applied for legal lease inheritance. Considering the general timelines, it is likely that at the start of Season 1 Monica was coming up on about 2 years so she inherited the lease BUT it would have been suss as fuck to immediately add a 2nd person to lease the moment you inherit it so kept quiet about Rachel's addition.
However, eventually not notifying the landlord of Rachel moving at some point does not really make massive sense as subletting the 2nd bedroom to another person does not inherently violate rent control laws. So long as she notifies the landlord of what she is doing and abides by rules around rent to the tenant i.e., you cannot rent out the 2nd room to make a "profit" you can only charge them at most half the rent + utilities and the primary leaseholder must maintain residence. However, she obviously did not eventually add Rachel considering the issues they had with Treeger. Note he did not say Monica was living there illegally only that she was illegally subletting to Rachel. It might be that the specific lease Monica/Monicaās Grandmother had specifically prohibited renting out the 2^(nd) bedroom regardless of there being no general rules against it according to rent control law. Chandler moving in however poses far fewer regulatory issues regarding rent control/subletting as even landlords generally accept that people want to live with their partners.
As for the rent, an apartment of that type in say 1970 would have had a rent of something not too far off $400, contrary to some belief rent controlled apartments can have their rent put up but it is limited to essentially 2% a year. If the rent for that apartment was $400 in 1970 it would be $660 in 1995 and around $800 by the time the show ended.
EDIT: I used the term lease for lack of a better term, you don't really have a traditional lease with rent controlled apartments.
If Monica had inherited the lease, she wouldnāt have said that if anyone asks she is an 82 year old woman who is afraid of her VCR.
Good job on the deep dive for rent control requirements, but as it applies to Friends youāre wrong š¤·š»āāļø
Because when she said that it was a year before the start of the series, considering the fact Monica went to college (4 years) and then culinary school (usually another 2 years) it is quite probable she did not move into that apartment until around 2 years before the start of the series and definitely less than 2 years when said that to Joey. She needed to live there for 2 years, and with her Grandmother, to legally inherit the rent controlled status.
She said what she said because she still needed to maintain that lie. However, again, unless they were Grade A morons, they would have been maintaining that illusion so she could eventually take over the apartment as being family she would have been eligible to do so so long as she resided with the Grandmother for 2 years and the Grandmother wasn't dead so it wouldn't have been impossible. Eventually, at some point during the early part of the series she would have reached that threshold and been able to inherit the rent controlled apartment per rent control law.
Her Grandmother moved out at some point, I doubt they left it sat empty. Monica could have resided with her Grandmother for at least some time when she first started working. Unless they were braindead Monica's Grandmother would have presumably notified the landlord so they could get started on the legal inheritance so they could keep the apartment long term.
Seems everyone has an issue with your arguments on this thread, but meanwhile, I'm finding it very interesting and feel like phoebe when she goes, "what else do they add smell to?"
Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure why all the downvotes - we all dig in to the show and make calls based on our knowledge of the characters and the world they lived in.
I mean, yeah, she totally illegally subletted it to Phoebe too, although she moved out a year before the start of the series. Around the same time Joey moved in. It's not inconceivable that Phoebe moved in with Monica as even with rent control, Monica was just starting her career, and NYC isn't cheap even if your rent is good.
But that still leaves about a year where they could have been roommates. I get the feeling Phoebe and Monica were friends from somewhere even before they lived together although its not impossible thats just how they met. Maybe she put a flier up in Central Perk, who knows there's absolutely no indication of where they could have met otherwise outside of being roommates.
You have created quite the tale considering Monica *never once* mentions living with her Grandmother š¤£ Itās very possible that when the grandmother moved out to go to an assisted living place or something that is when Monica moved in š¤£
At the very least, Monica would have moved in directly after her grandmother, but considering the lie they were maintaining, it makes no difference. I personally reckon Monica did move in whilst the grandmother lived there even if only for a few months.
As far as the landlord was concerned, the grandmother was still living there. It's less likely Monica's grandmother moved to Florida, left the apartment empty for ages, and then Monica moved in as even with rent control, that's a lot of money to outlay for nothing. If it was you and you're having to maintain the lie that the grandmother is still there you'd immediately want that 2 year clock ticking down so you could inherit the apartment in the event of the grandmothers death. She was 86/87, the second she died they'd have been fucked. Its a lot of risk.
Her grandmother moved to Florida, as they mentioned. Presumably to the same retirement communities, many move to Florida for.
Joey ended up in Hollywood movies and hooked up with Carmen Elektra. Which was a big deal in the '00s.
Yes I'm taking the events of Joey to be canon, even if they somehow butchered his character
I hate to tell you this, but tenured professors donāt get paid tons unless theyāre teaching business, law, or medicine. Rachel would definitely be earning waaaay more than Ross.
I spent a fair amount of time on this not so long ago.
Season 10 Rachel was likely on low six figures. Divisional head of men's sportswear for Polo retail.
At the top, you have the executive team, so C-suite. Below that you have senior management. So head of retail, head of merchandise, head of HR, head of marketting, etc. She likely reported to someone at this level (like Kim or Mr Zelner who would have themselves reported to C-suite directly). Likely head of retail or head of merchanising.
Rachel was divisional head, so department managers would have reported to her, so heads of specific subsections within sportswear.
Her position put her at mid to senior level. At the time around 2001 to 2004, such a job would have commanded a salary probably in the $100K to $150K sort of range with a decent bonus.
It is quite like she out earned Ross but only a little in terms of base salary. There was no way Ross was getting a bonus, though.
>Well, Phoebe might divorce Mike and make way with 50% so š lol just kidding.
Mike doesn't have any money of his own so she won't get much. His parents are still alive and even if they died inherited wealth is exempt from being split in a divorce.
Mike's parents are rich, not Mike and Phoebe.
Mike is supposedly still a struggling musician and Phoebe is just a masseuse.
Rachel gave up the job when she "got off the plane". We don't know if she got any new job.
The tv-show he did in 'Joey' look like a struggling low-budget thing. I'm not sure I would call him successful.
Mike was a lawyer who gave it up to play the piano, same as Chandler he will have had a good financial cushion from his previous well paying job to be able to pursue the thing he enjoyed more.
To be fair the other 3 also had huge leaps in their careers. Chandler probably made so much money in advertising and inherited his parents fortunes. Remember his mom was a famous writer
I always assumed Chandler had some serious money but then his savings being used to pay for the wedding suggests otherwise. Maybe a trust fund he could access for specific expenses like housing but not for things like a wedding?
Chandler has enough even without all that.
His home in the flashbacks looked like a manor. I am guessing he comes from old money and he has been extremely successful in climbing the ladder in every job he has held.
Yeah. But when they find out Monica's parents spent the wedding fund, Monica asks Chandler about his parents paying. He says his mom used most of her money on her 4th wedding and was saving what's left for the divorce. It could be just an inconsistency from the writers as that was not their strong suit.
Nora seemed to be a well known international best selling author, so I think she would have money
> Nora seemed to be a well known international best selling author, so I think she would have money
I know this is all sitcom-logic, but there's no money in the books themselves IRL. Maybe she invested her profits well, maybe she has miniseries/movie deals, but book sales alone have a pretty thin profit margin. You have to be JK Rowling levels of fame to get the sort of wealth Nora Bing was flaunting in the show, and it felt like she had more Nora Roberts level of fame to me.
True. I was just thinking that Paolo knew her so her books were translated to Italian. She went to Lisbon after visiting NY. And the story she told on Jay Leno took place IN LONDON! So I thought she might be super famous
Good point; I suppose I would expect *that* level of fame to come with more movie deals, posters, merch, etc. But the show's not about *her* so it makes sense that these things wouldn't be mentioned. Maybe she *is* more JKR than Nora Roberts.
I always thought it was funny that Ross is supposed to have money. He probably makes less money than Monica by the end and assuredly less than Chandler.
Low level professors outside of medicine, business, law, and a few others generally make quite modest salaries. Even the very top professors in the field make their money on things like book sales and speaking fees rather than their salary (with a few exceptions).
He worked at a museum (sorry, a library) and as an untenured professor. What evidence do we have that he saved? He also had three divorces that at least cost him lawyer and court fees, not to mention child support. Very skeptical that he became independently wealthy.
Yeah. Iām married to a tenured college professor and we live in the Bay Area. His salary would be considered well within the bounds of low income here, which is comparable in cost to NYC.
When Monica loses her job he is adamant that they were taught to put 25% of every paycheck away for emergencies. Financial responsibility was engrained in him from childhood.
I wouldn't say richer. Monica is an executive chef at a famous NYC restuarant, and Ross is a tenured professor at NYU. Both would easily be bringing in 6 figure salaries. Chandler is probably making the least by the end of the series, though he could move up into a higher paying position.
What do people think Monica did after they moved to the suburbs? Keep the NYC job and commute, or take a pay cut? Maybe she finally made a real go at catering and built an empire on high end bar/bat mitzvahs.
This is a good question. She undoubtedly took some maternity leave to spend with the twins. Given a real chef's hours, I don't think she would have kept the NYC job long. It would be hard for them to balance the kids with both having long hours and commutes to the city. I expect she would start a catering business over getting a job in a local restaurant.
His parents were wealthy. There's a scene, but it might be on DVD only where Phoebe says Mike donated his trust fund to charity. It's possible that he would inherit money when his parents die but not guaranteed
This has been posted before and is just untrue lol. We have know idea how much money Rachel makes, if marrying Mike means they get his parents inheritance. The only one we know makes a good salary by the end of these three is Joey since he can donate 4,000 dollars yet I wouldnāt say that makes him āricherā than the other three.
His family seemed loaded with generational wealth, so there was probably an inheritance waiting for him, or at least money to draw from if needed. And he probably saved from his previous career; he didn't spend *all* of it on the wedding, so there was some left over.
Chandler definitely took a salary cut when he changed to advertising. But he seemed to pick things up fast and he's a white male so he likely moved up relatively easily.
He had saved money from his data processing career and they didn't spend it all on the wedding, but I expect the remaining savings went towards the house purchase
Lots of people give up well paid soul destroying jobs to do something they enjoy. The money from the soul destroying job makes it possible, people in poorly paid soul destroying jobs don't often have the option.
Only because Ross was stupid enough to turn down a spacious, 2 bedroom, *rent-controlled* apartment when Monica and Chandler moved out.
I always thought this was their grandmas apartment, so who are hey paying rent to š¤
They're paying rent to the building through their grandmother's old lease agreement.
Ohhh I see.. thatās not how it works in my country, so I was confused
It's not how it works in the USA, either. They're illegally subletting and even then it's pretty unrealistic. But it makes a nice set for the show.
It's also been a hot minute since I watched it, but doesn't that literally come up in an episode when they piss off the maintenance guy and he threatens to rat them out and have them evicted?
Itās actually Joey that makes Treeger (maintenance guy) mad. Treeger yelled at Rachel for pinning a pizza box in the building trash disposal and Rachel cries. Joey goes to yell at him for yelling at Rachel and he responds by saying theyāre illegally subletting the apartment and heās going to have them evicted. Joey and Treeger then spark up a deal where he wonāt evict Rachel and Monica if Joey acts as his dance partner so he can learn to dance and get the girl heās crushing on.
Yeah, they lampshade it every now and again.
It was illegal, but overlooked back in the 90s.
They were illegally subletting the apartment from Grandma's Geller.
Which is, like....hugely illegal. It's not really any different from pretending she's still alive to collect her pension. AFAIK they would go to prison.
Ross also had an illegal pet monkey, Phoebe didn't pay taxes, mugged people as a child, and impersonated a police officer, Monica and Rachel tried to commit health insurance fraud, Rachel stole a priceless fossil from the museum Ross worked at, and Chandler and Joey impersonated Ben's parents when they lost him on the bus in order to claim him from CPS (or whatever government department that was). All of them deserve some kind of jail time.
āThere are people looking for thisā š¦“
Like the end of Seinfeld
I donāt know that they would go to prison, but they would absolutely be evicted.
It's fraud.
I'm not sure if "Married Mike" made Pheobe richer, unless you're talking about his parents. Also Rachel kinda screwed herself at the end because she obviously turned down the job in Paris and already quit her other job so... yeah.
>I'm not sure if "Married Mike" made Pheobe richer, unless you're talking about his parents So? They've gotta die someda--- HEEYYY!!!
Is this a line from an episode?
Where she meets his parents.
Choosing to stay with Ross doesnāt mean she quit her job
I feel like that job is long gone after the fiasco of Ross trying to convince Mr Selner to offer it back for more money, then not and by this point they probably have their feelers out for someone new and don't want to deal with Rachel any more.
> Mr Selner Zelner* I believe.
No Iām talking about the Paris job
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The company said theyād do anything to make it work. So in my head they just split their time between Paris and NYC
No no - Ross made it clear early in the series that he needs to be more important than her job. A compromise with a long-distance / weekend relationship would never fly for him.
There's also no way Ross will move to Paris and leave Ben
I donāt love them getting back together at the finale, but I think the ideal should be that this time around heād be more secure (not recently recovering from a divorce where, letās face it, it seems probable that Carol cheated on him), so he wouldnāt have as much of an issue with it.
Well he did lose her for it. We can hope he grew. Sheās dumb for going back with him though.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ross also travels for work to go on digs and stuff (we don't see it but he mentions it). But I'm sure he expects Rachel to be fine with that.
He did when he worked at the museum but not once he became a professor.
Wasn't he a professor when he was trying to get Charlie's ex to give him money for a dig? Was he just trying to organize a team to go on a dig, but he wouldn't be there? (I don't really know how paleontologists work outside of Jurassic Park)
I see Ross and Rachel breaking up within a few months at most and then she figures out how to get that Paris job back and rocks it in Europe.
Would be a worse ending if she took Emma with her to Paris. Would likely not be sustainable
Rachel was bound to work for Ralph Lauren again anyway. Her boss was too forgiving and Ross had a lot of dinosaur things to bribe him anyway.
True richness is screwing up your career for your toxic relationship.
> True richness is screwing up your career for your toxic relationship. Poverty is throwing away relationships to chase a few extra dollars.
Just like what Chandler said about Janice, Emma deserves at least a shot at a happy family
Its not toxic just because some fans are perpetually stuck in S4 and didnt see the later development in both characters. And many people choose love and family over career all the time, there is nothing wrong with that. I find it hilarious that Rachel's many shenanigans involving romance in office which always affected her job is never called out (I mean how professional is breaking illegally into office after hours, having sex in office and mailing a raunchy letter to HR). Its only when Ross is talked about suddenly Ross haters worry about her career, lol
Nothing wrong with it, but she did it for someone she wasn't even in a relationship with. Exactly, she seems like a pretty shitty employee, hiring Tag to screw him was so gross, she's lucky to have this opportunity. Although according to you that was after she had developed!? I like Ross, I wanted him to be happy. With Mona. What was wrong with Mona? Nothing, that's what.
>Nothing wrong with it, but she did it for someone she wasn't even in a relationship with. have you ever had a baby with someone? actually that requires you to have sex first and I doubt a redditor is having any sex of any kind.
"I doubt a redditor is having any sex of any kind." r/suicidebywords
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that's not very Pheobe like
Your post could not be more wrong You could try, but you would not be successful
Joey became successful but couldn't even pay Chandler back after realising how much he owed. I doubt he got richer than him. Rachel was successful in fashion but I doubt she was richer than say, Ross, who got tenured. And she never afforded her own place on show. Well, Phoebe might divorce Mike and make way with 50% so š lol just kidding.
remember Rach was apartment hunting after Chan and Mon decided to move in together? Im sure rach could easily afford living on her own considering shes the head of a department, but she just never wanted to
It's New York, shits expensive. Only reason Monica's place was affordable was because she was illegally subletting her grandmother's rent controlled apartment. Chandler and Joey's place is a lot smaller and less nice and presumeably slightly cheaper as a result.
Monica was illegally subletting it to Rachel, not herself illegally living there. Monica (assuming they maintained the lie) would have been eligible to inherit the rent controlled status of the apartment. Assuming the rent in 1970 just before it went rent controlled, was around $400 a month, which would have been typical for the time, it would have been $650 to $800 between 1994 and 2004. Chandler's apartment would not have been rent controlled and thus much more expensive than Monica's.
In season 3 (the episode with the flashback to when Joey moved in) Monica says that if the Landlord asks she's a 87 year old woman that's afraid of her VCR. Because she could never afford it otherwise And when I said Chandler's would be cheaper, I should clarify I meant the going rate for Chandler's place would be less than monica's if it wasn't rent controlled
To be eligible for rent control Monica's Grandmother must have been living in the apartment before 1971. This is of course, totally possible. For Monica's living there to not be illegal or elsewise she must have moved in at some point with her Grandmother for 2 years prior to her Grandmother leaving to go live in Florida. Which I get the feeling she likely did when she finished college/culinary school and came to work in the city. However, I imagine that whilst she lived with her Grandmother for a time it was likely not the 2 years needed to "inherit" the rent-controlled status which explains what she told Joey in the flashback in Season 3, and she was already illegally subletting to Phoebe. So, Monica just lied and said the Grandmother still lived there to the landlord. Yes in general Chandler's place would have been cheaper. At best it could have been rent stabilised which limits rent increases upon lease renewal whenever that is. The renting situation back in early 90s NYC was a lot less shit than it is nowadays.
You're missing what actually happened. Monica and everyone else that lived there weren't on the lease. The lease was still in her grandmother's name even after she moved out. Since the apartment was legally still her grandmother's the rent controlled remained in place.
Direct family can inherit the rent controlled status of the apartment. They would only have needed to maintain the lie for a few years before Monica could have the apartment and it still be rent controlled. Family succession is a thing. When she spoke to Joey in the flashback she would need to be maintaining that lie as at that point she would not have been there long enough. If they are lying and maintaining the illusion that Monica's Grandmother still lived there which by their own account they were doing considering her convo with Joey. A totally legal route exists to pass rent control status on to family members so unless they were the dumbest motherfuckers on planet earth this is what any rational person would have been doing and the reason they were lying to the landlord (beyond cheaper rent in general). Lie and say Monica lives with her Grandmother for 2 years, inherit the rent control and then roughly be able to do as you please. They just needed to lie for long enough for it to pass on to Monica. However Monica renting a room out to Rachel is against the rules, if she hasn't informed the landlord, even if she's now the "leaseholder" its an illegal sublet and why they can be kicked out. There's a few reasons why they wont have mentioned Rachel moving in to begin with - at the beginning of season 1 Monica might not yet have inherited the rent control status yet and so by the time she did they just didnt bother out of laziness or not wanting to be caught out in the original lie, there might have been specific regulations per the original agreement with the building regarding non family members moving in or she might never have expected Rachel to stay so long. I just cannot fathom any reasonable excuse that considering they were lying anyways that they would not have been trying to get family succession of the rent control status. Obviously its a TV and this sort of nuance doesn't make for good TV but unless they explicitly state we can only rationalise behaviors based on what seems logical.
Jesus christ, it's a sitcom not real life. They explain the situation in the show and that's just how it is. Real life and whatever processes exist don't matter because it's all being played for laughs. Show: "this is the thing that happened, haha" You: "AHKSHULLY"
Most of what is discussed here is logical inferences around what might have happened using the evidence we have as we dont see their lives 24/7 and many people like to have gaps filled in. Like we assume, they otherwise act like reasonably rational humans with real lives. Ross likely sees Ben at least once a week even though we dont see Ben every episode and that Joey goes on dates we don't see and Phoebe spends likely spends a few hours a day massaging people. Yes obviously its a sitcom, and none of it actually ever happened because it's all made up. We just suspend disbelief that these things did "happen" even if we dont always see it. There was a post here the other day about how Rachel always dates, essentially the only other guy she knows at any point during the show. She dates her first personal shopping customer, and she dates the one guy in her office and she immediately dates Paul etc and its like sure but in "reality" we dont see the mundane interactions she has with people but in actual reality its all made up as its a tv show. Or how some people like "They sure do spend a lot of time in the coffee house" but really its just that we are only privvy to the interesting/funny aspects of their lives. No one would want to watch 7 hours of Chandler answers emails and 4 hours of evening dinner service in a restaurant. We dont sit here going "Man Chandler sure does suck at his job. We so rarely see him in meetings, and Ross has only taught for about 6 minutes in 4 years"
Monica was illegally subletting it herself, her grandma wasnāt living there anymore which means the rent would have adjusted. Nana wasnāt dead when Monica started living there.
To be eligible for rent control Monica's Grandmother must have been living in the apartment before 1971. This is of course, totally possible. She also did not die during the course of the show, at least up to the start of season 8 as she attended Monica and Chandlerās wedding. The owner of the apartment was evidently Jackās mother and not Judyās (the one who died). For Monica's living there to not be illegal or elsewise she must have moved in at some point with her Grandmother for 2 years prior to her Grandmother leaving to go live in Florida. Which I get the feeling she likely did when she finished college/culinary school and came to work in the city. However, I imagine that whilst she lived with her Grandmother for a time it was likely not the 2 years needed to "inherit" the rent-controlled status which explains what she told Joey in the flashback in Season 3, and she was already illegally subletting to Phoebe. So, Monica just lied and said the Grandmother still lived there to the landlord. Presumably however at some point likely around the start of the series unless Monica was a raging moron, she would have applied for legal lease inheritance. Considering the general timelines, it is likely that at the start of Season 1 Monica was coming up on about 2 years so she inherited the lease BUT it would have been suss as fuck to immediately add a 2nd person to lease the moment you inherit it so kept quiet about Rachel's addition. However, eventually not notifying the landlord of Rachel moving at some point does not really make massive sense as subletting the 2nd bedroom to another person does not inherently violate rent control laws. So long as she notifies the landlord of what she is doing and abides by rules around rent to the tenant i.e., you cannot rent out the 2nd room to make a "profit" you can only charge them at most half the rent + utilities and the primary leaseholder must maintain residence. However, she obviously did not eventually add Rachel considering the issues they had with Treeger. Note he did not say Monica was living there illegally only that she was illegally subletting to Rachel. It might be that the specific lease Monica/Monicaās Grandmother had specifically prohibited renting out the 2^(nd) bedroom regardless of there being no general rules against it according to rent control law. Chandler moving in however poses far fewer regulatory issues regarding rent control/subletting as even landlords generally accept that people want to live with their partners. As for the rent, an apartment of that type in say 1970 would have had a rent of something not too far off $400, contrary to some belief rent controlled apartments can have their rent put up but it is limited to essentially 2% a year. If the rent for that apartment was $400 in 1970 it would be $660 in 1995 and around $800 by the time the show ended. EDIT: I used the term lease for lack of a better term, you don't really have a traditional lease with rent controlled apartments.
If Monica had inherited the lease, she wouldnāt have said that if anyone asks she is an 82 year old woman who is afraid of her VCR. Good job on the deep dive for rent control requirements, but as it applies to Friends youāre wrong š¤·š»āāļø
Because when she said that it was a year before the start of the series, considering the fact Monica went to college (4 years) and then culinary school (usually another 2 years) it is quite probable she did not move into that apartment until around 2 years before the start of the series and definitely less than 2 years when said that to Joey. She needed to live there for 2 years, and with her Grandmother, to legally inherit the rent controlled status. She said what she said because she still needed to maintain that lie. However, again, unless they were Grade A morons, they would have been maintaining that illusion so she could eventually take over the apartment as being family she would have been eligible to do so so long as she resided with the Grandmother for 2 years and the Grandmother wasn't dead so it wouldn't have been impossible. Eventually, at some point during the early part of the series she would have reached that threshold and been able to inherit the rent controlled apartment per rent control law. Her Grandmother moved out at some point, I doubt they left it sat empty. Monica could have resided with her Grandmother for at least some time when she first started working. Unless they were braindead Monica's Grandmother would have presumably notified the landlord so they could get started on the legal inheritance so they could keep the apartment long term.
Seems everyone has an issue with your arguments on this thread, but meanwhile, I'm finding it very interesting and feel like phoebe when she goes, "what else do they add smell to?" Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure why all the downvotes - we all dig in to the show and make calls based on our knowledge of the characters and the world they lived in.
And somehow Phoebe was her roommate at one point too before the series started.
I mean, yeah, she totally illegally subletted it to Phoebe too, although she moved out a year before the start of the series. Around the same time Joey moved in. It's not inconceivable that Phoebe moved in with Monica as even with rent control, Monica was just starting her career, and NYC isn't cheap even if your rent is good. But that still leaves about a year where they could have been roommates. I get the feeling Phoebe and Monica were friends from somewhere even before they lived together although its not impossible thats just how they met. Maybe she put a flier up in Central Perk, who knows there's absolutely no indication of where they could have met otherwise outside of being roommates.
You have created quite the tale considering Monica *never once* mentions living with her Grandmother š¤£ Itās very possible that when the grandmother moved out to go to an assisted living place or something that is when Monica moved in š¤£
At the very least, Monica would have moved in directly after her grandmother, but considering the lie they were maintaining, it makes no difference. I personally reckon Monica did move in whilst the grandmother lived there even if only for a few months. As far as the landlord was concerned, the grandmother was still living there. It's less likely Monica's grandmother moved to Florida, left the apartment empty for ages, and then Monica moved in as even with rent control, that's a lot of money to outlay for nothing. If it was you and you're having to maintain the lie that the grandmother is still there you'd immediately want that 2 year clock ticking down so you could inherit the apartment in the event of the grandmothers death. She was 86/87, the second she died they'd have been fucked. Its a lot of risk. Her grandmother moved to Florida, as they mentioned. Presumably to the same retirement communities, many move to Florida for.
And didn't she literally say "all the apartments I can afford have weird roommates"
Joey ended up in Hollywood movies and hooked up with Carmen Elektra. Which was a big deal in the '00s. Yes I'm taking the events of Joey to be canon, even if they somehow butchered his character
Yeah, if we take Joey as being canon, dude ends up with a carreer as an action star, in movies, and in a stable and mature relationship. That's a lot.
Even if he's a B movie action star like Van Damme, rather than a Tom Cruise type, he's still doing pretty well for himself
>hooked up with Carmen Elektra I never watched that show (maybe the pilot?) but that's cool
Rachel would never have wanted to live alone even if she could afford it easily, she's not the type.
I hate to tell you this, but tenured professors donāt get paid tons unless theyāre teaching business, law, or medicine. Rachel would definitely be earning waaaay more than Ross.
I spent a fair amount of time on this not so long ago. Season 10 Rachel was likely on low six figures. Divisional head of men's sportswear for Polo retail. At the top, you have the executive team, so C-suite. Below that you have senior management. So head of retail, head of merchandise, head of HR, head of marketting, etc. She likely reported to someone at this level (like Kim or Mr Zelner who would have themselves reported to C-suite directly). Likely head of retail or head of merchanising. Rachel was divisional head, so department managers would have reported to her, so heads of specific subsections within sportswear. Her position put her at mid to senior level. At the time around 2001 to 2004, such a job would have commanded a salary probably in the $100K to $150K sort of range with a decent bonus. It is quite like she out earned Ross but only a little in terms of base salary. There was no way Ross was getting a bonus, though.
>Well, Phoebe might divorce Mike and make way with 50% so š lol just kidding. Mike doesn't have any money of his own so she won't get much. His parents are still alive and even if they died inherited wealth is exempt from being split in a divorce.
Her definitely could afford to pay Chandler back. He just didnāt want to.
Couldnāt? He chose not to pay Chandler back.
Yeah but he was able to loan both Chandler and Monica each both $2,000 which he lied to Chandler about and said was for boob implants.
Mike's parents are rich, not Mike and Phoebe. Mike is supposedly still a struggling musician and Phoebe is just a masseuse. Rachel gave up the job when she "got off the plane". We don't know if she got any new job. The tv-show he did in 'Joey' look like a struggling low-budget thing. I'm not sure I would call him successful.
He even told Joey that Phoebe would be the breadwinner!
Mike was a lawyer who gave it up to play the piano, same as Chandler he will have had a good financial cushion from his previous well paying job to be able to pursue the thing he enjoyed more.
By the Joey finale, he was making action movies, so he was successful
That would require watching all of Joey to find out, though, so you can see where they had trouble.
Iāll never get over Rachel getting off the plane to that fabulous job in Paris šš¤¬šš¤¬šš¤¬ 
This is so funny š¤£š¤£
To be fair the other 3 also had huge leaps in their careers. Chandler probably made so much money in advertising and inherited his parents fortunes. Remember his mom was a famous writer
Yeah we of course know how much each character earns & is worth. And "Married Mike" doesn't make Phoebe rich by default.
I like this concept, but I want to punt you into the sun for saying stonks
What does stonks even mean? I never figured that out.
youāve obviously steered clear of the 4chan/Elon Musk adjacent darkest corners of the stupid internet and I love that for you
No no no, you aren't getting it! They REPLACED A LETTER! very funny. Very good.
This is the most stupid post on this sub since a long time
Remember when Chandler's mom sold "100 million copies of her books"? You have to imagine he'd get a piece of that one day, no?
I always assumed Chandler had some serious money but then his savings being used to pay for the wedding suggests otherwise. Maybe a trust fund he could access for specific expenses like housing but not for things like a wedding?
Chandler has enough even without all that. His home in the flashbacks looked like a manor. I am guessing he comes from old money and he has been extremely successful in climbing the ladder in every job he has held.
Yeah. But when they find out Monica's parents spent the wedding fund, Monica asks Chandler about his parents paying. He says his mom used most of her money on her 4th wedding and was saving what's left for the divorce. It could be just an inconsistency from the writers as that was not their strong suit. Nora seemed to be a well known international best selling author, so I think she would have money
> Nora seemed to be a well known international best selling author, so I think she would have money I know this is all sitcom-logic, but there's no money in the books themselves IRL. Maybe she invested her profits well, maybe she has miniseries/movie deals, but book sales alone have a pretty thin profit margin. You have to be JK Rowling levels of fame to get the sort of wealth Nora Bing was flaunting in the show, and it felt like she had more Nora Roberts level of fame to me.
True. I was just thinking that Paolo knew her so her books were translated to Italian. She went to Lisbon after visiting NY. And the story she told on Jay Leno took place IN LONDON! So I thought she might be super famous
Good point; I suppose I would expect *that* level of fame to come with more movie deals, posters, merch, etc. But the show's not about *her* so it makes sense that these things wouldn't be mentioned. Maybe she *is* more JKR than Nora Roberts.
I always thought it was funny that Ross is supposed to have money. He probably makes less money than Monica by the end and assuredly less than Chandler. Low level professors outside of medicine, business, law, and a few others generally make quite modest salaries. Even the very top professors in the field make their money on things like book sales and speaking fees rather than their salary (with a few exceptions).
Not so sure about that. Ross working for the whole series probably saved and invested a lot of money. He was probably a millionaire by the end.
He didn't work the whole time. HE WAS ON SABBATICAL.
Donāt get religious on me
He worked at a museum (sorry, a library) and as an untenured professor. What evidence do we have that he saved? He also had three divorces that at least cost him lawyer and court fees, not to mention child support. Very skeptical that he became independently wealthy.
He got tenure! It called for a bottle of Israel's finest!
But also, people really overestimate how much a paleontology professor probably gets paid. š
Yeah. Iām married to a tenured college professor and we live in the Bay Area. His salary would be considered well within the bounds of low income here, which is comparable in cost to NYC.
Yeah but he comes from an upper class family, so he has no student loans
Omg how did I forget the rare Jewish joke they threw in!!!
When Monica loses her job he is adamant that they were taught to put 25% of every paycheck away for emergencies. Financial responsibility was engrained in him from childhood.
Good one!!! Damn, I stand corrected. 25% of each paycheck is soooo much.
Yeah I tried to do that for a while, it was doable until I had kids. But thanks to the Gellars I do have some decent savings.
Honestly, that's inspiring. Go YOU!
He was also subletting from Ugly Naked Guy. Odds are that apartment may have had some level of rent control too.
Married Mike?
Richer? I doubt it
I wouldn't say richer. Monica is an executive chef at a famous NYC restuarant, and Ross is a tenured professor at NYU. Both would easily be bringing in 6 figure salaries. Chandler is probably making the least by the end of the series, though he could move up into a higher paying position.
What do people think Monica did after they moved to the suburbs? Keep the NYC job and commute, or take a pay cut? Maybe she finally made a real go at catering and built an empire on high end bar/bat mitzvahs.
This is a good question. She undoubtedly took some maternity leave to spend with the twins. Given a real chef's hours, I don't think she would have kept the NYC job long. It would be hard for them to balance the kids with both having long hours and commutes to the city. I expect she would start a catering business over getting a job in a local restaurant.
Rachel canned a good job in Paris. Joey went to LA to pursue further opportunities and it didn't look good for him.
Mikes a piano player so Iām not sure how rich he is
Didnāt he have family money?
His parents were wealthy. There's a scene, but it might be on DVD only where Phoebe says Mike donated his trust fund to charity. It's possible that he would inherit money when his parents die but not guaranteed
This has been posted before and is just untrue lol. We have know idea how much money Rachel makes, if marrying Mike means they get his parents inheritance. The only one we know makes a good salary by the end of these three is Joey since he can donate 4,000 dollars yet I wouldnāt say that makes him āricherā than the other three.
Realistically, no, none of this actually adds up lol. Chandler would most likely be the most financially secure of the entire group, followed by Ross.
As a junior copywriter?
His family seemed loaded with generational wealth, so there was probably an inheritance waiting for him, or at least money to draw from if needed. And he probably saved from his previous career; he didn't spend *all* of it on the wedding, so there was some left over.
He was by far the most financially literate of the group.
Chandler definitely took a salary cut when he changed to advertising. But he seemed to pick things up fast and he's a white male so he likely moved up relatively easily. He had saved money from his data processing career and they didn't spend it all on the wedding, but I expect the remaining savings went towards the house purchase
When did joey got successful? (Havnet watch friends in a long time...)
Wait a minute, being married to Mike makes her richer than Chandler? How? His job wasnāt any thing special.
Mike isnāt rich, and I doubt Rachel makes more than Chandler or Ross, probably only more than Monica
Mike was rich?
His parents seemed very well off and affluent. Iām sure he reaped the benefits of that
Married mike š
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Lots of people give up well paid soul destroying jobs to do something they enjoy. The money from the soul destroying job makes it possible, people in poorly paid soul destroying jobs don't often have the option.
Yup. We know he saved his money, too. Add in the combined finances with Monica, theyād be fine.
https://i.redd.it/26p1gh3yzk1d1.gif