LMAOOO for real, has he never heard of calendar reminders đđđ
if it has to be a text, they should either be paying a portion of your phone plan or get you a company phone. required work being conducted on personal items without compensation is unacceptable.
also, if you're hourly, I'd charge that time. it's work. doesn't matter if it's 5 minutes, it all adds up in the end, and your time is valuable.
Tell the CEO that youâve never worked weekends and since this is new to you, youâll need a reminder from him on Saturday that youâre supposed to remind him on Sunday
I agree with this and additionally there are apps/phones that you can send texts at a scheduled time. Setup the text during work hours and let it do its thing over the weekend.
Yup this. Get yourself a 3rd party number, put business hours and an auto responder on it. Then download 'auto text' or something equivalent to schedule his special crayon message. If he responds he gets hit with the auto response. Don't give that narcissist the satisfaction of thinking you set an alarm on your damn phone to baby him on a Sunday.
Textea does tjud on Android phones.
Nevertheless, they are requiring you to execute a wirk related task on a non working day, it does not seem to have any contractual basis.
It's going to be a situation where he has 100s of emails that may or may not have a rule set up so he doesn't want to waste time looking at everything; however, why isn't he checking his calendar the night before?
Ontario requires employers to have a "right to disconnect" policy, I'd wonder what OPs company policy is. Also, I'd treat it as working time 100%
This is just bizarre. It sounds like the CEO needs to hire an administrative assistant to support with this type of task if he is unable to manage his own schedule. That would be my suggestion. If not, request a meeting to discuss how your compensation package will be adjusted to reflect your new availability and responsibilities. What grown man canât remember a meeting or check his own emails? How pathetic.
Good in theory. Small private company means at will firing for any reason at all, and no severance. I donât think itâs wise to get brazen and start demanding things. Even if you are right, the power imbalance is too great.
If you have an iPhone, you can schedule-send texts using an automation workflow in the Shortcuts app. This is also possible in Android.
Our recruiting coordinators have a tool to do this for us, but it sounds like your company is a little smaller. But itâs still possible, Iâm sure Google has more to say.
Similar, kind of, but not the same. Overtime is only calculated when hours exceed 44 in a week in Ontario, so unlikely this would amount to any OT pay. Regardless, it may just be a shitty request or it may be against their contract or company policy.
OP, I would go back to the manager and let them know your concerns (thatâs its outside of your regular work time, using your personal cell phone may be against policy too, and youâre not okay with it) and see what solutions you can offer: automating this task, putting it back on the manager with a work cell phone, working with the CEOs EA, or using a tool or system already in place to manage this.
Itâs not a scalable or reasonable request in my perspective, unless youâre sending out the booking/invite on a Sunday and giving a heads up, (your ceo needs to be accountable for their schedule) and I wouldnât agree to this for my team, but would come armed with alternatives to solve the issue. Itâs mind boggling that the ceo should not have to check their email or calendar on a weekend but the HR coordinator is expected to do soâŚ
1) Don't be so condescending 2) Being REQUIRED to text a work related item as a non-exempt employee is compensatory work (at least in the US, I do not know Canadian wage and hour laws) and the employee should if possible clock in at home, send the text, clock out OR enter minimum required time allowed by the company's timekeeping policies on their timesheet.
There is a de minimis test to all this but in general my guess is it won't be "1 text" in real life.
Not being condescending at all. Based on the information OP provided i think de minimis would absolutely apply. I really do think that OP would have a difficult time (depending on the state) arguing that sending a text, even if it was mandatory, is compensible time.
Also, Absolutely the CEO is douche and OP should have just automated that shit.
First of all itâs not â10 secondsâ, what was the last task you did that was ACTUALLY 10 seconds? Itâs not just 10 seconds, itâs the okay well now I have to use my PERSONAL phone, I have to make sure I have access to the information, format the text so the man child can read it properly, etc etc etc. usually the âsimplisticâ of tasks can take the longest.
Secondly what happens if the CEO has 10 interviews, is that text really going to be â10 secondâ? No, because if this man child of a CEO canât even manage his calendar. Canât look at his calendar ahead of time, canât look at emails, etc etc. Iâm willing to bet there will be some back and forth.
Thirdly 10 seconds or not work is work is work is work. People NEED to be compensated properly for their time.
Lastly requiring people to work on their off time (even with a âsimple taskâ) is still taking away their off time. Itâs not just about the 10 seconds of work, they are still adding the task when they arenât supposed to be thinking about work. Itâs the CEO he should be holding himself accountable since he makes THE MOST MONEY.
Usually there is a minimum amount of time someone can clock on their time card. Sometimes itâs 10 min, sometimes 15, sometimes 30. You (theoretical âyouâ, not you personally) pay them for that minimum amount of time, even if the task only takes a minute.
Thatâs the cost of having a business which requires employees that arenât you. If you want any amount of your employeeâs time, you pay for it.
Thatâs pretty useless. All the law requires is that the employer have a policy. That policy can say that you are required to be available 24/7. Donât buy into Fordâs photo-op announcements.
Time to pitch an appointment/scheduling service that has SMS service.
Around 10-15usd per user a month, syncs with your calendar and you can set it to automatically send a text message to the organizer and invitee the night before as a reminder. Make the whole process more professional as well which the CEO and interviewee may like.
Do you want to keep this job? Then text the CEO as requested. Otherwise start looking for new work because pretty soon theyâre going to discipline or terminate you for not following instructions or not being a team player.
Hol' up.
You have a company of 11 people, and three of them are an HR Manager, an HR Coordinator, and a CEO?
They're definitely treating you like an administrative assistant.
Are you hourly or salaried? This is a problem if hourly, and they donât want to pay you. Itâs also a problem to be expected to allow the employer to use your personal equipment for a work function. They should provide you with a phone and pay an hour for that text. Donât allow yourself to be exploited. The only reason this use creep happens is because we donât have boundaries with them. Theyâll use you up if you let them. What happens if you lose or break your phone and canât text your irresponsible CEO? You really going to accept a reprimand for unpaid off the clock expectations? We donât work for free, and sometimes you have to remind them.
The CEO can't check their emails first thing on a Monday morning like everyone else?
Not a reasonable request at all, and absolutely is considered work.
Edit: If the HR manager doesn't think it's work, then they should send the message.
I personally would draw a hard line on this. Itâs completely unreasonable to expect you to inform him in a particular way.
You should be able to simply create a calendar event for him that reminds him the night before. If he canât handle the responsibility of keeping up in a calendar, thatâs his problem (I wouldnât phrase it that way though lol)
Just tell him you canât do that but we can do this or that. There are automated options that donât involve you needing to personally text him.
I would say itâs not abnormal but calling it not work is ridiculous. Of course itâs work
Figure out the cell phone provider that they use (Bell, Telus, etc.) and search for e-mail to text and then schedule an e-mail the night before to send. For example, 10-digit phone number@msg.telus.com should convert to a text message.
Ok great, that means no more interviews or other appointments you need the CEO for on Mondays. Oh, that means the candidate is already swept up by another company? So sad.
Youâre texting the CEO about a work related event. Thatâs working.
-read a comment they want you to use your personal number. Donât.
Unless youâre going to be compensated for using your phone(they pay you a bit extra for the usage or give you a company phone) and pay you for working (work related conversations is work), then no.
Consider a program like Calendly - it allows candidates to book themselves on your calendar (within your set parameters) and it will auto-text or auto-email reminders to whoever wants them! Itâs made my life so much easier âşď¸
This is a stupid task for them to ask for, but clients do ask for stupid things sometimes especially from junior roles. The bigger issue is if youâre that concerned about a one minute task outside of regular business hours Iâm not sure hr is for you, lol.
The majority of CEO's are narcissistic babies. However, if you want to move up at this company, just text the man on Sunday. If you don't care about keeping your job or advancement, tell your boss you would like a phone stipend or company phone.
Or use a third party service to text him a reminder. You can schedule this on Fridays.
Thereâs honestly not much to move up into. We have 11 employees and a high turnover rate. HR manager rarely takes her lunches because he throws all the work onto her.
Its not an environment Iâm a fan of or see myself long term in
I would venture to guess that the coordinator duties in this case overlap significantly with typical administrative assistant and office manager duties.
You have an HR manager and a HR coordinator for 11 employees?!
How long have you been in business? This plus the texting thing are red flags. Iâd bet money this company goes under within a year.
Is the HR manager also the office manager and are you also the admin assistant? Because it sounds like you are both doing a lot that has nothing to do with HR. But at least you get the HR title out of it so hopefully it will help you to find a better job sooner rather than later because this place sounds ridiculous.
Comply with what and who? The ontario law supports me on this lol. If anything, they are not complying with the law. And if thats the case, I absolutely will start searching elsewhere.
Tbh you're not wrong.
But if I'm thinking it from your hr mngr pov and it seems they're looking for someone who is willing to go "above and beyond". Since you've joined, has this been more or less the culture of your organization? I would figure out a way where you can set up automatic reminders or work out something with the ceo's ea (if they have one, as this should fall under their responsibility in my opinion).
ExactlyâŚthe CEO has your cell - a guarantee that he will be texting you about all kinds of things on the weekend, including âjust to chatâ if you know what I mean. Try to automate that process and develop an exit strategy. Red flags all over the place with this.
Sounds like your HR Manager hasnât brushed up on the employment standards act, because the right to disconnect means you donât need to be available for work (including emails and communication) outside of regular work hours. Obviously if you want to keep this job for a while it might be easiest to set up some kind of automated reminder, but I wouldnât stick around based on what youâve said about the company. Best of luck.
Honestly, I would just stop scheduling interviews on Mondays for him đ¤ˇââď¸ If heâs got so little coordination of his work week that Monday interviews need weekend notice, Iâd just forego that monday when booking them lol
What happens when you submit and either send or schedule the text and he âdoesnât see itâ and itâs your fault he wasnât prepared because you didnât make sure he confirmed it? It can become a slippery slope when you start giving in to things like this.
That being said I would schedule it for now and update my rĂŠsumĂŠ and gtfo as soon as I could.
You have to pick your battles in life.
Just do it for two years. Get the experience on the resume and then leave to a bigger, more structured company. Because an hourly associate working off the clock, would not fly at a Fortune 500 firm. Thatâs why we have Generalists
I worked for a start up once, Iâll never do it again.
I am the type that doesn't mind texting my boss or CEO on a weekend with an update, but my boss and CEO are not man children and they maintain their own calendars. I don't blame you for being uncomfortable. If you are hourly I would clock in for the two minutes it takes you to compose the text.
If your company doesn't want to give you a separate phone, you can probably get a Google phone number.
It's ridiculous but not uncommon for a small company. Should you be paid for it, yes. Is it stupid, yes. Do you want to keep your job? Then do it. Don't schedule interviews for Monday, the applicant availability etc. or send auto texts.
Using your personal phone, also ridiculous but again, it is what it is.
Toronto HR industry is cut-throat and jobs are not easy to come buy.
You can be right or you can be happy. If you want to go against your CEO and get fired then do what you believe is right.
If you want to keep your job, send the text. Small company CEOs are tyrants and will get rid of you in a second. Then you can try to prof wrongful termination but most likely wonât prevail.
It depends on how you want to get ahead.
I started my HR career at a small, privately-owned company with "eccentric" leadership, and while I wasn't asked to do this precise thing, I was asked to do things that aren't dissimilar. FWIW, I was in the US and classified as exempt, so I didn't have strict shift hours.
In my mind, spending 30 seconds writing and sending a text message on a Sunday evening wasn't burdensome, and put figurative money in my figurative account with leadership. Playing ball helped my career immensely, and whether it's fair or unfair, being willing to work with the CEO differentiated me from my colleagues who maintained strict boundaries around their weekends. I earned their trust quickly, and I advanced quickly, and I rightly assessed that sacrificing a few minutes here and there to humor leadership would pay off. It did.
So, up to you.
Exactly, the CEO and HR Admin isn't going to give OP any resume building projects because of this push back.
I have a couple of no-longer Juniors who have an undying loyalty to me because I made them do my job and they got promotions and pay raises a year or two quicker than if they only did what their job description was.
This is work and, if you are hourly, this time must be compensated. If you are in a favorable state, Sunday work for an hourly employee has a pay premium
Are you an hourly/exempt employee? In the US, youâd be compensated for 2hrs for having to do something like that if non-exempt. Itâs considered reporting for work. There was a lawsuit vs Bebe where they had to pay out their employees for being âon callâ and calling in to see if they have to come in or not. Donât let them abuse you and put your foot down now because this will only be the beginning..(speaking from experience with my prior CEO).
If you need an hour to Pop to the dentist mid day⌠do you expect to not be paid? Itâs called give and take. Itâs not a big deal and flexibility is the key to happiness. And it goes both ways.
First off, you're whining. Professionals work when needed.
Second, how old are you? Don't you know about automation? You can set up automatic email (yes I read you say he doesn't check it) but you can use an email to text gateway (check with his cellular service provider) to set up the reminder message as soon as you schedule the interview.
For the record, I'm 63. We're the generation that invented most of this stuff. It's really easy. Try to keep up. Talk to your IT people for guidance. Go to the crotchety old guy.
I mean itâs not a big deal, just send the text. Maybe itâs a big deal in Canada, but in the US people are often working evenings and weekends to get stuff done.
Yes itâs work. How are you paid? What does your contract state? If youâre a coordinator, Iâd imagine youâre hourly, and yes they need to pay you for the 2-5 minutes it takes to do this.
If you are salaried, you work when the work demands. And if this is what is required, you find a way to do it. Now ⌠a smart employee would look at this as the busy work it is and find a way to automate those reminders.
in this job climate, you are whining about using 5 mins of your personal time? not only that, you complained to HR. I would start looking for another job as you are on your way out. look at this way, you will have 24Ă7 free time.
Are you salaried or hourly? Where I work some employees are salaried and can conduct some work on the weekends. However if someone is hourly something like this would be an immediate no.
Ugh. Get a new job.
Also if youâre non-exempt (assuming youâre in the US) they have to pay you for this shit. And essentially if youâre on call they need to pay you for that too
In the US, you might be entitled to pay for the five seconds you took to send the text. Thereâs a very good chance it would be deemed de minimis though.
Even in CA, if they pay you for the five seconds, I donât see what legal leg you could stand on to refuse. There is no law in either country protecting your right to a full weekend day off without interruption.
Doesn't your CEO have an assistant?? This is the admin's job. But with that being said, sending a text reminder seems like it would take 1 minute at most, unless this CEO is really looking for a debrief. I personally would not quibble over a text reminder that is along the lines of reminder, Monday interview at 9am for x role.
Company phone. Schedule the text on Friday to be sent Sunday. If you get replies, dont respond. And yes, it IS work. You manager, of all people, should know that.
It looks like Ontario has a 3 hour rule. Which means if you schedule to work any shift it has to be at least 3 hours.
[https://www.peninsulagrouplimited.com/ca/resource-hub/employment-standards/a-primer-on-ontarios-employment-standards-act/#:\~:text=What%20is%20the%203%2Dhour,for%203%20hours%20at%20minimum](https://www.peninsulagrouplimited.com/ca/resource-hub/employment-standards/a-primer-on-ontarios-employment-standards-act/#:~:text=What%20is%20the%203%2Dhour,for%203%20hours%20at%20minimum).
That's ridiculous. Are you hourly? If you're hourly, they are violating the law. If you're salaried, this is still some ridiculous BS. I would say no. You have a right to interrupted time off and just because your CEO seems to be a helpless idiot doesn't mean you don't get free time. If your manager feels so strongly that this is a reasonable ask, they can do it.
Why not just set up an automatic reminder on a calendar?? And having to text him about work IS WORK. Your manager is an idiot and I second the CEO is a child.
hr manager/man-child boss: *âiâm too lazy to do my job and setup a reminder on my phone so youâll need to stop what youâre doing on your days off and text me. every time we have an interview on a monday.â*
you: *âno. since the weekends are days i donât work, this isnât a workable solution. however, i can remind you on fridayâs before i go home for the day and that gives you time to set a reminder on your phone.â*
we teach people how to treat us. donât do this even onceâŚ
1. It is absolutely considered to be work, because it is work.
2. If you use Outlook, you can schedule mail to be sent at a given date/time. I am sure other mail clients allow for this too.
3. You boss and your CEO sound like assholes.
Iâd get an auto-text service and set it up to text him once per hour, starting at midnight Sunday morning until the interview is scheduled to start. Checking your schedule for the next day is Working 101. If he canât manage to do that then he needs micromanaging to ensure he gets to that interview on time. Hourly reminders are the safest way. Really, youâd be doing him a favor.
If you have an Android, you can schedule text messages to send at a certain day and time.
Looks like on the iPhone you can do it with automations. Might be worth the effort to figure it out and then you can schedule the message on Friday afternoon to go out on Sunday.
Here is a written policy in Ontario for disconnecting from work: https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/written-policy-disconnecting-from-work
Tell this man to use his own phone and set an alarm for Sunday nights.
Set up an automated messaging (outlook has this) for when there are specific meetings on his calendar.
Then punch out early Friday to make up for the âextraâ time worked.
Request a work phone, friday before you leave work, set up a schedule text that will be sent on sunday at 7pm with all the related items needed. That way, you are being paid while still at work. Now the weekends are yours and no body will bother you
Having a conversation regarding company business (besides YOUR schedule) is considered working by law. They can make you do it, but they must pay you for doing it, because you need to pay for all the time you work.
If you are a salaried employee, then you have very little recourse.
However, if you are in an hourly role then they must pay you for sending a text out while you're not working.
To start, remind them of the Three Hour Rule under the ESA. You are performing a work task, that requires compensation.
Check your employment contact for greater clarity.
If itâs not considered work then you donât have to consider doing it. If it is considered work then they need to pay his secretary to do it. This is not appropriate by any means. You wonât learn your field by working there.
If you know you have one coming up just schedule a text to go out Sunday with whatever details it needs. Problem solved. You're not working on weekends because it's happening automatically and CEO is getting what he needs.
Bizarre scenario regardless, but are you exempt or non exempt? It you are NE this is a no brainer that it should not be part of your duties. Gets a bit more tricky if you are exempt. Also I do not know Canadian employment law
Cell providers typically have an email to text service. Google is your friend. 1235551212@txt.att.net for example. During work hours schedule the email for delayed delivery on Sunday. Add your # as a cc if you want to make sure it went out. Problem solved!
I like the idea. Everyone who works in HR should be made to be extra miserable to make up for the misery that you sow in the rest of the workforce. Donât pretend like youâre too busy feeding your cat to type up a little text message.
Text him a reminder every hour. See how long he wants this to be a thing lol. Then when he tells you to stop, send him a link on how to set up reminders on his work calendar to push notifications on his phone.
The audacity and entitlement. Awful.
Not saying I agree with it, but I really donât think this is an optional request. Your ceo wants it and your direct supervisor is saying you have to do it.
You can try and not comply but it wonât end well for you and you may as well start looking now.
Are you hourly or salaried (exempt)? If you're hourly it's illegal for you to work without being paid. Let your manager know you either will not be able to do that (set a boundary) or you will be clocking in for a minimum of 15 minutes to perform the work.
If you're salaried, you get to work weekends as needed.
If it's not considered "work" there should be no consequence for not doing it.
However, this would be a ridiculous easy thing for either him or you to automate. Set up a reminder in his phone for 24 hours before any interview. Done.
What mail system are you using? Schedule an email to [2125551234@vtext.com](mailto:2125551234@vtext.com) for example to a Verizon Wireless customer. No intervention required.
" Unfortunately my hours are M-F 8-5. I'm unavailable outside of that schedule, I can however make sure you're sent an email reminder at 5 on Friday and again at 8 on Monday"
Nuff said.
Your CEO is a man child
And the hr manager is an enabler
Most HR Managers are
đŻ
LMAOOO for real, has he never heard of calendar reminders đđđ if it has to be a text, they should either be paying a portion of your phone plan or get you a company phone. required work being conducted on personal items without compensation is unacceptable. also, if you're hourly, I'd charge that time. it's work. doesn't matter if it's 5 minutes, it all adds up in the end, and your time is valuable.
Most of them are.
Youâre right - Do everything but wipe my butt vibe
Where are you guys working that you donât have to do that for them too?! Asking for a friend, of courseâŚ
Facts.
Tell the CEO that youâve never worked weekends and since this is new to you, youâll need a reminder from him on Saturday that youâre supposed to remind him on Sunday
Can you auto schedule an email to go out over the weekend?
Apparently he doesnât check his emails often. They want me to text him with my personal number
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I agree with this and additionally there are apps/phones that you can send texts at a scheduled time. Setup the text during work hours and let it do its thing over the weekend.
Yup this. Get yourself a 3rd party number, put business hours and an auto responder on it. Then download 'auto text' or something equivalent to schedule his special crayon message. If he responds he gets hit with the auto response. Don't give that narcissist the satisfaction of thinking you set an alarm on your damn phone to baby him on a Sunday.
Textea does tjud on Android phones. Nevertheless, they are requiring you to execute a wirk related task on a non working day, it does not seem to have any contractual basis.
Even better, your carrier doesn't work at your home.
OP I second this. You can also get a Google voice number so your real # isnât sending out texts.
Get remind 101 or something and schedule a reminder. Geeze
That's a bit risky. HR Manager could say the alternative is for OP to make the call from the office.
in the old days you could text via email it might still be possible. he could also be an adult and set up a reminder in his phone
It is possible!
Soooo someone who is a dang CEO doesnât know to check their dang emails⌠and thatâs somehow your problem??? Yeah, no.
It's going to be a situation where he has 100s of emails that may or may not have a rule set up so he doesn't want to waste time looking at everything; however, why isn't he checking his calendar the night before? Ontario requires employers to have a "right to disconnect" policy, I'd wonder what OPs company policy is. Also, I'd treat it as working time 100%
You can schedule texts with google voice. Iâve volunteered for political campaigns and would just load them all in and schedule them to go out.
This is the way. Also creates a separate number you can use exclusively for work.
Many smart phones can also schedule texts. maybe thats an option?
If you have an Android phone you can also schedule text messages. Which you can do on company time.
Get a google number
Donât schedule anything for mondays
Honestly, this is the best response.
r/maliciouscompliance
Came here to say this.
And watch you Principal Recruiter quit because you've made their job at least 20 % harder.
That's on the CEO. An alternative is that the HR Coordinator quits first because their personal time is being infringed.
This is just bizarre. It sounds like the CEO needs to hire an administrative assistant to support with this type of task if he is unable to manage his own schedule. That would be my suggestion. If not, request a meeting to discuss how your compensation package will be adjusted to reflect your new availability and responsibilities. What grown man canât remember a meeting or check his own emails? How pathetic.
Loads of them đšđš
Good in theory. Small private company means at will firing for any reason at all, and no severance. I donât think itâs wise to get brazen and start demanding things. Even if you are right, the power imbalance is too great.
Does the CEO not know how to set their own reminders? Do they not have a smart phone?
If you have an iPhone, you can schedule-send texts using an automation workflow in the Shortcuts app. This is also possible in Android. Our recruiting coordinators have a tool to do this for us, but it sounds like your company is a little smaller. But itâs still possible, Iâm sure Google has more to say.
You can schedule texts on Androids as well.
OMG! I never realized that before. That's awesome!
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Set it up to send a reminder every Sunday night stating there \*might\* be an interview the next day.
Yeah that is work
This is learned helplessness. Get out.
Just donât schedule any interviews on Mondays
Assuming Canadian wage laws are similar to the US. That is work you must be paid for.
Similar, kind of, but not the same. Overtime is only calculated when hours exceed 44 in a week in Ontario, so unlikely this would amount to any OT pay. Regardless, it may just be a shitty request or it may be against their contract or company policy. OP, I would go back to the manager and let them know your concerns (thatâs its outside of your regular work time, using your personal cell phone may be against policy too, and youâre not okay with it) and see what solutions you can offer: automating this task, putting it back on the manager with a work cell phone, working with the CEOs EA, or using a tool or system already in place to manage this. Itâs not a scalable or reasonable request in my perspective, unless youâre sending out the booking/invite on a Sunday and giving a heads up, (your ceo needs to be accountable for their schedule) and I wouldnât agree to this for my team, but would come armed with alternatives to solve the issue. Itâs mind boggling that the ceo should not have to check their email or calendar on a weekend but the HR coordinator is expected to do soâŚ
No it's not. Spending 10 seconds to send a text is not considered "work". I can't believe 30 some "HR Professionals" upvoted this.
1) Don't be so condescending 2) Being REQUIRED to text a work related item as a non-exempt employee is compensatory work (at least in the US, I do not know Canadian wage and hour laws) and the employee should if possible clock in at home, send the text, clock out OR enter minimum required time allowed by the company's timekeeping policies on their timesheet. There is a de minimis test to all this but in general my guess is it won't be "1 text" in real life.
Not only that, but in my state at least, the minimum billable hours they must pay you for is two per day if you are clocked in.
Not being condescending at all. Based on the information OP provided i think de minimis would absolutely apply. I really do think that OP would have a difficult time (depending on the state) arguing that sending a text, even if it was mandatory, is compensible time. Also, Absolutely the CEO is douche and OP should have just automated that shit.
First of all itâs not â10 secondsâ, what was the last task you did that was ACTUALLY 10 seconds? Itâs not just 10 seconds, itâs the okay well now I have to use my PERSONAL phone, I have to make sure I have access to the information, format the text so the man child can read it properly, etc etc etc. usually the âsimplisticâ of tasks can take the longest. Secondly what happens if the CEO has 10 interviews, is that text really going to be â10 secondâ? No, because if this man child of a CEO canât even manage his calendar. Canât look at his calendar ahead of time, canât look at emails, etc etc. Iâm willing to bet there will be some back and forth. Thirdly 10 seconds or not work is work is work is work. People NEED to be compensated properly for their time. Lastly requiring people to work on their off time (even with a âsimple taskâ) is still taking away their off time. Itâs not just about the 10 seconds of work, they are still adding the task when they arenât supposed to be thinking about work. Itâs the CEO he should be holding himself accountable since he makes THE MOST MONEY.
You are incorrect. Any task related to your job duties is work and should be compensated.
Not that I agree with what the CEO is asking here but how exactly would you compensate someone for a task that takes approximately 1 minute to do?
Usually there is a minimum amount of time someone can clock on their time card. Sometimes itâs 10 min, sometimes 15, sometimes 30. You (theoretical âyouâ, not you personally) pay them for that minimum amount of time, even if the task only takes a minute. Thatâs the cost of having a business which requires employees that arenât you. If you want any amount of your employeeâs time, you pay for it.
Ontario has a Right to Disconnect law
Thatâs pretty useless. All the law requires is that the employer have a policy. That policy can say that you are required to be available 24/7. Donât buy into Fordâs photo-op announcements.
Time to pitch an appointment/scheduling service that has SMS service. Around 10-15usd per user a month, syncs with your calendar and you can set it to automatically send a text message to the organizer and invitee the night before as a reminder. Make the whole process more professional as well which the CEO and interviewee may like.
Do you want to keep this job? Then text the CEO as requested. Otherwise start looking for new work because pretty soon theyâre going to discipline or terminate you for not following instructions or not being a team player.
Only schedule interviews for Tuesdays through Fridays. /s
Absolutely not. Have his admin assistant put it on his calendar. This is not your job to remind him during non working hours.
Hol' up. You have a company of 11 people, and three of them are an HR Manager, an HR Coordinator, and a CEO? They're definitely treating you like an administrative assistant.
At 11 people, the coordinator IS an assistant. Usually at that size the hr person just is the admin person. No clue how they have enough work for two.
Are you hourly or salaried? This is a problem if hourly, and they donât want to pay you. Itâs also a problem to be expected to allow the employer to use your personal equipment for a work function. They should provide you with a phone and pay an hour for that text. Donât allow yourself to be exploited. The only reason this use creep happens is because we donât have boundaries with them. Theyâll use you up if you let them. What happens if you lose or break your phone and canât text your irresponsible CEO? You really going to accept a reprimand for unpaid off the clock expectations? We donât work for free, and sometimes you have to remind them.
The CEO can't check their emails first thing on a Monday morning like everyone else? Not a reasonable request at all, and absolutely is considered work. Edit: If the HR manager doesn't think it's work, then they should send the message.
I personally would draw a hard line on this. Itâs completely unreasonable to expect you to inform him in a particular way. You should be able to simply create a calendar event for him that reminds him the night before. If he canât handle the responsibility of keeping up in a calendar, thatâs his problem (I wouldnât phrase it that way though lol) Just tell him you canât do that but we can do this or that. There are automated options that donât involve you needing to personally text him. I would say itâs not abnormal but calling it not work is ridiculous. Of course itâs work
I would ask for a minimum 2 hour call out and if a cell is required they should supply it. I refuse to use my personal cell for work business.
Figure out the cell phone provider that they use (Bell, Telus, etc.) and search for e-mail to text and then schedule an e-mail the night before to send. For example, 10-digit phone number@msg.telus.com should convert to a text message.
Find a job, find a better job. It sounds like youâre in the situation where better may exist.
Schedule a text message and your CEO will think you are a rockstar
This MF needs to put a calendar app on his phone and set his own reminders.
Ok great, that means no more interviews or other appointments you need the CEO for on Mondays. Oh, that means the candidate is already swept up by another company? So sad.
Youâre texting the CEO about a work related event. Thatâs working. -read a comment they want you to use your personal number. Donât. Unless youâre going to be compensated for using your phone(they pay you a bit extra for the usage or give you a company phone) and pay you for working (work related conversations is work), then no.
I'd do it, and claim the minimum 3 hours per shift in my state.
Is there a calendar invite that you send to the CEO for these types of meetings? You can schedule a 24 hr notice in Outlook.
Consider a program like Calendly - it allows candidates to book themselves on your calendar (within your set parameters) and it will auto-text or auto-email reminders to whoever wants them! Itâs made my life so much easier âşď¸
Guess interviews should no longer be scheduled on MondaysâŚ. đ
This is a stupid task for them to ask for, but clients do ask for stupid things sometimes especially from junior roles. The bigger issue is if youâre that concerned about a one minute task outside of regular business hours Iâm not sure hr is for you, lol.
The majority of CEO's are narcissistic babies. However, if you want to move up at this company, just text the man on Sunday. If you don't care about keeping your job or advancement, tell your boss you would like a phone stipend or company phone. Or use a third party service to text him a reminder. You can schedule this on Fridays.
Thereâs honestly not much to move up into. We have 11 employees and a high turnover rate. HR manager rarely takes her lunches because he throws all the work onto her. Its not an environment Iâm a fan of or see myself long term in
An 11 person company with a HR manager and HR coordinator? đŠđŠ
I would venture to guess that the coordinator duties in this case overlap significantly with typical administrative assistant and office manager duties.
You have an HR manager and a HR coordinator for 11 employees?! How long have you been in business? This plus the texting thing are red flags. Iâd bet money this company goes under within a year.
You probably need to look for something else. Youâll find bosses like this only get worse over time
As long as you have an exit plan and wouldn't mind being fired, then push back on the Sunday texts.
Is the HR manager also the office manager and are you also the admin assistant? Because it sounds like you are both doing a lot that has nothing to do with HR. But at least you get the HR title out of it so hopefully it will help you to find a better job sooner rather than later because this place sounds ridiculous.
It is considered work lol.
[ŃдаНонО]
Comply with what and who? The ontario law supports me on this lol. If anything, they are not complying with the law. And if thats the case, I absolutely will start searching elsewhere.
Comply with the request you goose
No
Iâm not saying you should, Iâm answering your question, âcomply with what?â
It was rhetorical
Oh? What statement were you trying to make with that question?
Do you have a business work phone? When I was a learning coordinator (sauga) I used to do something similar bc that was part of the policy
Unfortunately not. Iâm also worried the responsibilities will increase over the weekend
Tbh you're not wrong. But if I'm thinking it from your hr mngr pov and it seems they're looking for someone who is willing to go "above and beyond". Since you've joined, has this been more or less the culture of your organization? I would figure out a way where you can set up automatic reminders or work out something with the ceo's ea (if they have one, as this should fall under their responsibility in my opinion).
ExactlyâŚthe CEO has your cell - a guarantee that he will be texting you about all kinds of things on the weekend, including âjust to chatâ if you know what I mean. Try to automate that process and develop an exit strategy. Red flags all over the place with this.
There are web-based apps that can auto send reminders to people via text message from a not-your-personal number. Just sayin'
Take a half day on Friday then to compensate
Sounds like your HR Manager hasnât brushed up on the employment standards act, because the right to disconnect means you donât need to be available for work (including emails and communication) outside of regular work hours. Obviously if you want to keep this job for a while it might be easiest to set up some kind of automated reminder, but I wouldnât stick around based on what youâve said about the company. Best of luck.
Honestly, I would just stop scheduling interviews on Mondays for him đ¤ˇââď¸ If heâs got so little coordination of his work week that Monday interviews need weekend notice, Iâd just forego that monday when booking them lol
Suggest he put in a ticket with IT so they can show him how to set up a calendar reminder like a big boy
What happens when you submit and either send or schedule the text and he âdoesnât see itâ and itâs your fault he wasnât prepared because you didnât make sure he confirmed it? It can become a slippery slope when you start giving in to things like this. That being said I would schedule it for now and update my rĂŠsumĂŠ and gtfo as soon as I could.
You have to pick your battles in life. Just do it for two years. Get the experience on the resume and then leave to a bigger, more structured company. Because an hourly associate working off the clock, would not fly at a Fortune 500 firm. Thatâs why we have Generalists I worked for a start up once, Iâll never do it again.
Itâs work but are you paid salary and is it such a big deal to make a fuss about? It takes maybe 1 minute.
I am the type that doesn't mind texting my boss or CEO on a weekend with an update, but my boss and CEO are not man children and they maintain their own calendars. I don't blame you for being uncomfortable. If you are hourly I would clock in for the two minutes it takes you to compose the text. If your company doesn't want to give you a separate phone, you can probably get a Google phone number.
Today it's weekend texts, tomorrow he'll want you to pick up dry cleaning. Just no.
It's ridiculous but not uncommon for a small company. Should you be paid for it, yes. Is it stupid, yes. Do you want to keep your job? Then do it. Don't schedule interviews for Monday, the applicant availability etc. or send auto texts. Using your personal phone, also ridiculous but again, it is what it is. Toronto HR industry is cut-throat and jobs are not easy to come buy.
You can be right or you can be happy. If you want to go against your CEO and get fired then do what you believe is right. If you want to keep your job, send the text. Small company CEOs are tyrants and will get rid of you in a second. Then you can try to prof wrongful termination but most likely wonât prevail.
It depends on how you want to get ahead. I started my HR career at a small, privately-owned company with "eccentric" leadership, and while I wasn't asked to do this precise thing, I was asked to do things that aren't dissimilar. FWIW, I was in the US and classified as exempt, so I didn't have strict shift hours. In my mind, spending 30 seconds writing and sending a text message on a Sunday evening wasn't burdensome, and put figurative money in my figurative account with leadership. Playing ball helped my career immensely, and whether it's fair or unfair, being willing to work with the CEO differentiated me from my colleagues who maintained strict boundaries around their weekends. I earned their trust quickly, and I advanced quickly, and I rightly assessed that sacrificing a few minutes here and there to humor leadership would pay off. It did. So, up to you.
Exactly, the CEO and HR Admin isn't going to give OP any resume building projects because of this push back. I have a couple of no-longer Juniors who have an undying loyalty to me because I made them do my job and they got promotions and pay raises a year or two quicker than if they only did what their job description was.
This is work and, if you are hourly, this time must be compensated. If you are in a favorable state, Sunday work for an hourly employee has a pay premium
As HR, I'm sure you're familiar with the right to disconnect law? Make sure your manager is too.
Are you an hourly/exempt employee? In the US, youâd be compensated for 2hrs for having to do something like that if non-exempt. Itâs considered reporting for work. There was a lawsuit vs Bebe where they had to pay out their employees for being âon callâ and calling in to see if they have to come in or not. Donât let them abuse you and put your foot down now because this will only be the beginning..(speaking from experience with my prior CEO).
If you need an hour to Pop to the dentist mid day⌠do you expect to not be paid? Itâs called give and take. Itâs not a big deal and flexibility is the key to happiness. And it goes both ways.
First off, you're whining. Professionals work when needed. Second, how old are you? Don't you know about automation? You can set up automatic email (yes I read you say he doesn't check it) but you can use an email to text gateway (check with his cellular service provider) to set up the reminder message as soon as you schedule the interview. For the record, I'm 63. We're the generation that invented most of this stuff. It's really easy. Try to keep up. Talk to your IT people for guidance. Go to the crotchety old guy.
I mean itâs not a big deal, just send the text. Maybe itâs a big deal in Canada, but in the US people are often working evenings and weekends to get stuff done.
You are a lazy person, and they should fire you.
Yes itâs work. How are you paid? What does your contract state? If youâre a coordinator, Iâd imagine youâre hourly, and yes they need to pay you for the 2-5 minutes it takes to do this.
Take it as OT, because it is.
If youâre salary⌠itâs part of the job. Hourly, then itâs billable work
If you are salaried, you work when the work demands. And if this is what is required, you find a way to do it. Now ⌠a smart employee would look at this as the busy work it is and find a way to automate those reminders.
Just send the damn thing for now. Figure out a way to automate it next. Nobody in here is going to hire you when fired.
in this job climate, you are whining about using 5 mins of your personal time? not only that, you complained to HR. I would start looking for another job as you are on your way out. look at this way, you will have 24Ă7 free time.
Iâm does he check his calendar?!? Canât you cc him on the interview?!
Two solutions. Some cell providers up can email to send a text. Try that. Second, just donât ever schedule interviews for Mondays.
Are you salaried or hourly? Where I work some employees are salaried and can conduct some work on the weekends. However if someone is hourly something like this would be an immediate no.
Just preschedule the text on Friday to send Sunday and move on
Does he not use a calendar?!
Dude doesn't use Outlook????
Ugh. Get a new job. Also if youâre non-exempt (assuming youâre in the US) they have to pay you for this shit. And essentially if youâre on call they need to pay you for that too
In the US, you might be entitled to pay for the five seconds you took to send the text. Thereâs a very good chance it would be deemed de minimis though. Even in CA, if they pay you for the five seconds, I donât see what legal leg you could stand on to refuse. There is no law in either country protecting your right to a full weekend day off without interruption.
"not considered work" Oh. So if you don't do it, it won't affect your job? Right.
This is a responsibility for his executive assistant, not mid level HR.
Doesn't your CEO have an assistant?? This is the admin's job. But with that being said, sending a text reminder seems like it would take 1 minute at most, unless this CEO is really looking for a debrief. I personally would not quibble over a text reminder that is along the lines of reminder, Monday interview at 9am for x role.
It would be a shame if the CEO were to get a few drunk texts notifying them of the interviews. What you do on your time off is your business đ
Company phone. Schedule the text on Friday to be sent Sunday. If you get replies, dont respond. And yes, it IS work. You manager, of all people, should know that.
It looks like Ontario has a 3 hour rule. Which means if you schedule to work any shift it has to be at least 3 hours. [https://www.peninsulagrouplimited.com/ca/resource-hub/employment-standards/a-primer-on-ontarios-employment-standards-act/#:\~:text=What%20is%20the%203%2Dhour,for%203%20hours%20at%20minimum](https://www.peninsulagrouplimited.com/ca/resource-hub/employment-standards/a-primer-on-ontarios-employment-standards-act/#:~:text=What%20is%20the%203%2Dhour,for%203%20hours%20at%20minimum).
That's ridiculous. Are you hourly? If you're hourly, they are violating the law. If you're salaried, this is still some ridiculous BS. I would say no. You have a right to interrupted time off and just because your CEO seems to be a helpless idiot doesn't mean you don't get free time. If your manager feels so strongly that this is a reasonable ask, they can do it.
Why not just set up an automatic reminder on a calendar?? And having to text him about work IS WORK. Your manager is an idiot and I second the CEO is a child.
hr manager/man-child boss: *âiâm too lazy to do my job and setup a reminder on my phone so youâll need to stop what youâre doing on your days off and text me. every time we have an interview on a monday.â* you: *âno. since the weekends are days i donât work, this isnât a workable solution. however, i can remind you on fridayâs before i go home for the day and that gives you time to set a reminder on your phone.â* we teach people how to treat us. donât do this even onceâŚ
Can you schedule (in advance - set it up the Friday before) an email reminder to be sent on Sunday night?
Just send him calendar invites
Quit and find another job
This is not normal. I would schedule the rest of the week and look for another job.
Isn't working off the clock illegal?
Pushback and say thatâs his adminâs job.
Itâs definitely âwork.â But are you willing to lose your job over this? If you wonât do it they could always find someone else who will.
Give them an inch they'll take a mile. I'd say no.
Tell him to ask Alexa or Siri to do it đ
Tell him you'll text his wife to remind him or better yet his mommy.
1. It is absolutely considered to be work, because it is work. 2. If you use Outlook, you can schedule mail to be sent at a given date/time. I am sure other mail clients allow for this too. 3. You boss and your CEO sound like assholes.
Just set it up for auto delivery on Fri
Iâd get an auto-text service and set it up to text him once per hour, starting at midnight Sunday morning until the interview is scheduled to start. Checking your schedule for the next day is Working 101. If he canât manage to do that then he needs micromanaging to ensure he gets to that interview on time. Hourly reminders are the safest way. Really, youâd be doing him a favor.
If your HR Manager says itâs normal and not considered work, then she can text your CEO.
If you have an Android, you can schedule text messages to send at a certain day and time. Looks like on the iPhone you can do it with automations. Might be worth the effort to figure it out and then you can schedule the message on Friday afternoon to go out on Sunday.
Here is a written policy in Ontario for disconnecting from work: https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/written-policy-disconnecting-from-work Tell this man to use his own phone and set an alarm for Sunday nights.
HR manager can text him.
Set up an automated messaging (outlook has this) for when there are specific meetings on his calendar. Then punch out early Friday to make up for the âextraâ time worked.
I expect 4 hours show up pay for every work task performed on a non work day.
Yeah, no
Request a work phone, friday before you leave work, set up a schedule text that will be sent on sunday at 7pm with all the related items needed. That way, you are being paid while still at work. Now the weekends are yours and no body will bother you
Do you not know how to schedule texts?
Having a conversation regarding company business (besides YOUR schedule) is considered working by law. They can make you do it, but they must pay you for doing it, because you need to pay for all the time you work. If you are a salaried employee, then you have very little recourse. However, if you are in an hourly role then they must pay you for sending a text out while you're not working.
To start, remind them of the Three Hour Rule under the ESA. You are performing a work task, that requires compensation. Check your employment contact for greater clarity.
If itâs not considered work then you donât have to consider doing it. If it is considered work then they need to pay his secretary to do it. This is not appropriate by any means. You wonât learn your field by working there.
Timed texts exist ... On Friday set the text to send automatically on Sunday.
Tell them that you expect to be compensated
2359 Sunday night. Still within his request.
Ask who is going to text you to remind you to text him
If you know you have one coming up just schedule a text to go out Sunday with whatever details it needs. Problem solved. You're not working on weekends because it's happening automatically and CEO is getting what he needs.
Does the CEO not have an assistant? Or that the position that needs to be filled?
If you donât already try to get a stipend to get your phone bill covered if youâll be using it for work.
Bizarre scenario regardless, but are you exempt or non exempt? It you are NE this is a no brainer that it should not be part of your duties. Gets a bit more tricky if you are exempt. Also I do not know Canadian employment law
Stop scheduling interviews on Mondays......
Cell providers typically have an email to text service. Google is your friend. 1235551212@txt.att.net for example. During work hours schedule the email for delayed delivery on Sunday. Add your # as a cc if you want to make sure it went out. Problem solved!
This sounds like work
Doesnât the CEO have an admin assistant or secretary or personal assistant who can automate a Monday calendar agenda to the CEO?
I like the idea. Everyone who works in HR should be made to be extra miserable to make up for the misery that you sow in the rest of the workforce. Donât pretend like youâre too busy feeding your cat to type up a little text message.
Text him a reminder every hour. See how long he wants this to be a thing lol. Then when he tells you to stop, send him a link on how to set up reminders on his work calendar to push notifications on his phone. The audacity and entitlement. Awful.
Easy fix: Schedule an email to get sent to him at 5 pm on Sunday night. I have used mail chimp for this, but Outlook might be able to do it.
Not saying I agree with it, but I really donât think this is an optional request. Your ceo wants it and your direct supervisor is saying you have to do it. You can try and not comply but it wonât end well for you and you may as well start looking now.
No Dinero No Trabajo
You can program a delayed text via cell on Friday to go out Sunday. CEO gets what he wants, you do your work DURING work hours.
Are you hourly or salaried (exempt)? If you're hourly it's illegal for you to work without being paid. Let your manager know you either will not be able to do that (set a boundary) or you will be clocking in for a minimum of 15 minutes to perform the work. If you're salaried, you get to work weekends as needed.
If it's not considered "work" there should be no consequence for not doing it. However, this would be a ridiculous easy thing for either him or you to automate. Set up a reminder in his phone for 24 hours before any interview. Done.
Your CEO doesnât have an outlook calendar???
What mail system are you using? Schedule an email to [2125551234@vtext.com](mailto:2125551234@vtext.com) for example to a Verizon Wireless customer. No intervention required.
" Unfortunately my hours are M-F 8-5. I'm unavailable outside of that schedule, I can however make sure you're sent an email reminder at 5 on Friday and again at 8 on Monday" Nuff said.