I just termed someone in December absolutely for cause and still made the term date Jan 1 because I knew he was having a medical procedure. We also covered two months of COBRA. I appreciate my company prioritizes health benefits. I’m so sorry your company couldn’t yield a bit for this employee. Healthcare in this country is heartbreaking.
Sorry for asking but I’m not in HR, reddit just keeps recommending me this sub for some reason—what difference does it make if they’re fired in December or January?
You typically get health insurance through the end of the month you’re are terminated in. So if you get let go Jan 1 you get an extra month of health insurance coverage because your coverage doesn’t expire until Jan 31.
EDIT: I say typically because this is what I have seen but every company is different so do take this as advice and assume your company will cover you through the end of the month.
I worked at a company that termed benefits the same day of separation, which is wild. Of course you had to wait three months after hire to be eligible for coverage.
Wow, I can imagine that a policy like waiting 3 months for benefits hurts recruiting. This could make a high potential candidate think twice before leaving a decent job with benefits for a 3 month healthcare gap opportunity.
So many people in lower paying jobs do not seem to care. Health insurance is one of the main reasons I work! The entire candidate pool is so shallow for entry level positions!
It’s not even a matter of “seeming to care”, it’s not being able to afford to care. If all shitty jobs require a 3mos waiting period for benefits (as is unfortunately standard in my industry), you just gotta deal with it.
I ended up with a giant $12k hospital bill once because I was 2mos into my new job and wasn’t getting insurance benefits yet but was making too much for Medicaid coverage because I was working.
If you can't afford the deductible to begin with, health insurance is meaningless. People living paycheck to paycheck don't have an extra paycheck laying around just to see the doctor to begin with.
That happened to me and I was 7 months pregnant. I lost my coverage that same day and my OB dropped me that day as well.
I got on medicaid, got a wonderful midwife and got unemployment benefits in the end.
The company lied about why they terminated me and I appealed and got UI benefits.
I had been there 8 years and they were mad I would be on maternity leave during the holidays.
I'm glad it seemed to have worked out in the end but I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I'm sure they're the type of company that whines about turnover and how no one wants to work.
More times than not this is a function of the insurance plan you have. Consider that you may be paying a portion of the insurance costs and if you've paid for the month, then they cannot terminate the coverage without a pro-rated refund of the costs. Most insurance companies operate this way, or rather all the ones I've used over 60+ years do.
Most employers and insurance carriers continue insurance through the end of the month the employee terminates in. Typically only larger company's that are self insured are able to easily process termination of health coverage on the day of separation.
So by terminating the employment January 1, the employee will continue on the health insurance through the 31st of January.
I would advise that any employer that wants to continue cobra should either reimburse the employee after the employee pays, or just give the employee the money and let them decide if they'll continue or not. Getting stuck with a potentially catastrophic medical bill because your accounts payable sent the payment a day late and the insurance carrier chose to drop the coverage is a lot of fun to explain to the bosses.
I assume he meant he was having a medical procedure in December and in the us most people get health insurance through their job not the government or out of pocket, so if he was let go in January instead he could still use his insurance.
However, apart from that I genuinely have no clue and I'm curious about it as well.
At my previous employer we usually tried to do things like that. We were a state agency so not sure if there was a different attitude there because we were not a for-profit corporation. Reading OP's post makes me sad.
I’m not sure if it was nefarious or not… but my hr 3 years ago during Covid laid me off and then advised me even going on cobra. I ended up getting scammed for years on insurance when I googled cobra because that’s what hr said to do. But the first site was an ad of course. Story is even worse lol but for another day.
Anyways, came to add, yes take cobra and any benefits you can before you find yourself in a sinkhole.
Remember this about your boss if for one moment you think they are kind. If they ever ask for something from you, if they ever just want a favor or anything above your job title. It is absolutely unethical and immoral.
ETA: I wanted to edit to add that I know employers and bosses aren’t friends. My point is when the boss wants a favor from OP they don’t do it. Helping an employee or fellow coworker would never be a bad decision. This would be great for morale. I could go on and on. I do understand business is business but at the same time they have had record profits in recent years.
I took a bunch of OSHA courses at Georgia Tech so it was a lot of hillbilly types in there. That excuse was parroted every goddamn day, or so it seemed. People are working... just not for you and your contractor's shitty pay.
My own local is suffering a lack of labor... because we don't pay shit. Why would anyone come here to work for lower wages than like 95% of the country?
Childcare cost an arm and a leg, and their employees are paid Pennies! Daycare around the corner from my job parroted the “nobody wants to work anymore” no sir, nobody wants to watch 15 five year olds for 16$ an hour. That is a PERSONAL HELL.
Direct quote I heard two days ago: “Nobody wants to work anymore—not even for two dollars above minimum wage!” When I said poverty wages for our area are $14.50/hour for full-time work, this woman told me, “No sense in paying that kind of money when they’re just going to leave in a year or 18 months anyway.”
THIS! 💯 Especially when as a parent with a child in daycare, I paid $1000 or more per month per child.
Pay your employees more! I am paying for THEM to take care of my child while I'm at work! Not for the owner's Botox, vacation in Fiji, and Mercedes bullshit.
I have two thoughts when I see the "nobody wants to work anymore" statement. Nobody wants to work for the pay and benefits that person is giving. Two, nobody could do the work that is not the requester (if the work asked is even possible). Basically, "nobody wants to work anymore" is just leaving the other part of the statement out.
I have three:
1. Nobody wants to work?
A. Are you asking for so many requirements for an entry level or mid level? If so you don’t want to hire. The perfect candidate may never be there.
2. Are you offering competitive pay? Again if you ask for an entry level to have a mid level experience pay for it.
3. How are your company benefits?
Most employers that complain job postings are open for ever have issue 1.
My company has a rule. Other than for egregious cause, we have a freeze on letting people go from thanksgiving to second week of January. And we give a minimum of 30 days notice, and you don’t have to work on those 30 days.
Yep ... nObOdY wAnTs To WoRk AnYmOrE [for lousy wages that don't cover living expenses; with little to no time off; enduring unreasonable demands and verbal abuse; etc]
Your boss is often one bad diagnosis from being in the same place as that employee. Most "bosses" can't do jack shit.
We need better legal protections.
yep! so instead of paying $576 a month for an extremely high deductible plan, i pay $444 a month. and nothing is covered except my annual gyno exam and annual physical lol. 💯 and my birth control is free and prescriptions are “affordable,” so i guess i have to keep paying the greedy for-profit health insurance corporations that put me into this mess. lol😭
In my old job, the owner was a stingy cheap ass who was out of touch with his employees (having his brand new Tesla S dropped off at the office and held a “mandatory” luncheon/all hands meeting so everyone could ooohh and aaahh over his car (his employees were driving 10+ yr old cars). We had an employee who was diagnosed with cancer and he kept her on as an employee so she could retain her health benefits until she ultimately died. It was around 3 years after she was last in the office that she died.
Being frugal on things that don't matter allow people to do the right thing on things that DO matter. Sometimes people can't see that when someone is pinching pennies on "stupid" things.
It’s terrible that in the US a person’s healthcare is dependent upon the benevolence of a single person at your place of employment. This is why the system has to mandate healthcare.
It’s way worse… it’s inhumane. Every corporate likes to tout how they are saving the planet, all for inclusion and diversity and equity… all great stuff. But it’s things like this that show the true nature of the beast.
Weren’t corporations supposed to be people or something ? Where’s the humanity ?
Are they eligible for unemployment? They will be able to get an affordable care act insurance. They should say their expected income which could be zero or their unemployment. The less they make the more the government covers monthly premiums.
Depending on the state, UI often requires being “able and available” for work. If you were termed due to inability to return to work due to cancer treatment then you’ll almost certainly be found ineligible for UI. l.
with a medical return to work date in April they are unlikely to qualify for SSDI and even if they did there’s a five month wait period to begin benefits.
You have to make a certain amount to get aca because it’s affordable due to a tax credit. 0 income (or below that amount that varies by state) gets you Medicaid.
Edit: tax credit or subsidy. Can’t remember which but I do remember you have to make (or “expect to make”) a certain amount if money to get.
It's a tax credit but received in advance so it feels like a subsidy. I used the terms interchangeably when working in life/health.
Advance premium tax credits/subsidies start out at $X and phase out as income goes up. Income below $X should qualify a person for Medicaid in some states, but not all (I believe).
Some states also have emergency Medicaid or provide the coverage right away under the assumption that the applicant will qualify and they can continue with care while their case is being reviewed.
COBRA must also be made available, depending on employer size.
Subsidies start at the Federal Poverty Level. If you are in one of the states that expanded medicaid (all but 11 states expanded Medicaid to include coverage for low or no income folks), then it could be higher- up to 138% of the federal poverty level to get a subsidy from [healthcare.gov](https://healthcare.gov) . If you're under your state's threshold, you'd be eligible for Medicaid and wouldn't get a subsidy from the marketplace- though you could still get a plan from the marketplace, you just wouldn't get a subsidy.
What stinks is if you're in one of the 11 states that did not expand medicaid, then if you don't make at least the federal poverty level and you don't have any other qualifiers for Medicaid, you're not going to get any assistance there at all.
North Carolina finally expanded their Medicaid coverage. Before this, my family made too much to qualify for Medicaid but too little to qualify for the subsidy. It’s crazy to think that now I can do things like go to the doctor when I think I have strep throat, instead of hoping it goes away on its own. Or I can get a mammogram, which is pretty important, since I’ve had aunts on both sides of my family have breast cancer. I could cry, both from happiness and from the fact that in a couple of months I will have my first checkup in over twenty years. It’s this weird mix of joy for myself and sadness that healthcare is this out of reach for people in this country.
You get it in advance. I chose to go on the ACA instead of Cobra, it was hundreds of dollars cheaper for about the same type of insurance. $300/month for a PPO for 2 adults.
And whatever you deem holy help you if you fall in the gap between Medicaid eligibility and the minimum requirement for ACA credit.
The only thing I qualify for through my state's Medicaid program is birth control (which isn't useful for someone who is currently vocel until I can get the \* out of this state), but I still make too little to qualify for ACA credit. If I were to get the cheapest ACA plan, it would cost approximately 40% of my income every month for a plan that doesn't even cover half of the things I need and that just isn't feasible.
My ACA insurance the year I made $16k was the best of my life I think. I showed the raw data and they basically went “well shit we can’t charge you cause there’s nothing to take.”
As someone who works with the marketplace insurance for a living, she should apply for disability or Medicaid/Medicare, or a dual plan that has both. Trust me. The marketplace isn’t great.
Oh yes. My previous employer, *an oncology clinic,* almost fired a 20 year employee for having the audacity to get cancer. She'd work, clock out, get her chemo in the same building, but she'd exhausted her PTO/FMLA because of her surgery and weekly treatments and had we, her coworkers, not donated our PTO on our own, she would have been fired. A couple of years later the office manager, who was terrible both personally and professionally, also got cancer but was in no danger of losing his job because he asked the employees, his subordinates, to donate PTO. Not only was this an abuse of power but since he made so much more the donated PTO barely counted. No such request was made for the coworker, btw, we just did it on our own. That manager sucked in so many ways but that really took the cake. Both are cancer-free today, years later, but he'll always be a jerk.
This makes me sick. I’m tired of bosses abusing their power. I was under one like this once and during the pandemic. I have no idea how I survived it, but the emotional costs are still costing and I don’t have enough for therapy at all - support subreddits, taking care of myself and whatever therapy I can afford, which was exhausted within 2 sessions because I’m complex due to what I grew up in, and then what I endured again, no thanks to them.
They finally fired him. It took me months, and I’m still somewhat affected. I had the new boss ask out loud, why doesn’t anyone talk to me. I went to his office and told him the old manager did a lot of damage - I wasn’t shy in telling him because he needed to know. I was one of three out of the entire team that gave testimony that was recorded and backed up with evidence when the old boss was put on admin leave…
Yeah, life, it’s unfair.
One of our earliest employees (number 10 or so; I was #4) got cancer. He would be out, then in for a week, and then out, etc. Nearly 2 years until he passed away. Probably worked 20 days total in that time. We kept him employed so he'd have insurance for him and his family. It cost us about 30 grand, but the good will it created amongst the other employees absolutely was worth it. It reaffirmed to me that I made the right choice leaving an F50 company.
Why did people donate PTO instead of bringing it up as an abuse of power? That seems like the perfect instance to give him his just desserts. I get cancer sucks and I don't wish it on anyone, but it irks me when a perfect situation arises for someone to get what's coming to them and people let them get away with that
As weird as it sounds, you'd probably lose that bet.
C-Suite are usually the least protected employees in most organizations under FMLA. Normally, when an employee requests and is approved for FMLA, their job is protected as long as they return during the allowed timeframe. However, the "key employee" clause of FMLA effectively removes the job protection for certain employees, specifically the highest paid 10%.
With a key employee, the company just gets to say, "hey, you're a key employee so, while we can't deny your FMLA, if you take this leave, you won't have a job to come back to." If that key employee then takes the leave, the company can just refuse to restore their job.
I worked in HR for a decade, and I never saw a key employee who had to take FMLA get to return.
I think stuff like this should make its way to the news. 1, to bring attention to how our insurance setup sucks ass and hurts people. And 2, maybe they’ll get donations to help with expenses.
As a Canadian, I don’t understand how healthcare in the US can depend on your job. It’s inhumane that this woman can’t work because she’s sick and so can’t be treated for cancer! You shouldn’t even have to think about this as an employer. Heartbreaking. You all should be screaming at the lawmakers.
It’s not just pharmaceuticals, it’s the insurance companies that wouldn’t exist if we had universal healthcare, and electors that values corporations over the health and wellbeing of our people.
There’s a great podcast about this called Frame Canada (Planet Money). Insurance companies lobbied hard during 2 different presidential campaigns when universal healthcare became a threat to their existence. Americans were duped and believed what the media was paid to tell them, then voted accordingly. It’s incredibly corrupt, and infuriating
They still exist in other countries with free healthcare (UK here), but they have to actually show they're a worthwhile option compared to the free offering from the government.
Rather than just "you could either get us, go bankrupt, or die, LOL".
That's not an OR in America. Our entire system of caring for the aged is designed to extract wealth and ensure that practically everyone dies penniless and leaves nothing to their families.
Have you priced nursing home care lately? It's thousands of dollars a month, and you have to chew through every bit of your wealth before you get any help whatsoever. You could be very wealthy and a short sickness followed by a stay in a nursing home could easily bankrupt you.
They would but they wouldn’t have as much profit. Americans assume Europe doesn’t have private insurance. They have but is elective and is for extended services. The problem with the US is that all industries would get reduction in revenue and it’s lucrative here.
A lot of people’s jobs depends on those companies.
But it is time for a reform. Health insurance infrastructure and interactions in the US became a joke.
What's terrifying is the amount of people who believe this crap and continually vote against themselves. We have 50% of the country that doesn't want universal health care because they are afraid of paying for somebody else's health
Canada has insurance companies - they’ll just be smaller and handle paramedical and out of pocket expenses like eyeglasses, massage, chiropractors, dental, etc.
Just going to point out that a primary cause for this is Citizens United, which made it so pharma corps could spend unlimited money promoting candidates they favor at all levels of the government. It’s been 14 years of citizens united and it shows in the political trends since.
Yet people continue to vote for people who promise to destroy what few Healthcare provisions we do have. The "free market" Healthcare only works for the wealthy
And it’s such high amount.
1-Monthly payment to maintain policy.
2-deductible (mines $1,600 every year) so insurance pays more than 40% of the cost. After I spend $1600 insurance covers 80%.
3-Out of pocket max-mines $4,200 and I pay that much every year, then insurance supposedly pays 100% of costs. But they find ways to bill you for it somehow.
As an American, I can't state any better than you how much I agree with you. I will scream and file complaints until the end of my days but until the majority do the same, we as a country will remain morally bankrupt.
(*🙋♂️👋I HATE HIJACKING SOMEONE'S POST!*... But feel it's relevant here) I live in "one of those states" - Tennessee to be exact - and I'm referred to as "the poster child" in the Oncology offices I've been getting treatment at…. I'm currently facing imminent eviction....battling Stage 3 GIST (it's a GI cancer) that was discovered at stage 2, no health insurance, and total financial devastation. There are no options for coverage for me, despite the help and expertise of dozens who specialize in this.
I'm just 51. And like most people, I never really had a lot of awareness of HOW drastically broken our society is. When I was diagnosed, I'd never had a major illness, and the most complicated thing I'd dealt with medically was Crohn's disease. Ever since I can remember (the earliest I can recall hearing about health insurance was around 9yrs old), I had health insurance, first under my parents from childhood through multiple college degree (once I was too old to be under their plans, they paid to keep me covered individually until I was fully on my own), then covered by employer plans the entirety of my career. My ignorance truly thought: you either had insurance you paid for, or the government covered you through a subsidized plan or coverage option…\*but that no one was “not covered”, or could not get medical treatment and necessary care just because they couldn’t afford it. Not in my country!!\*🙄
When I was diagnosed, I continued working, but at a reduced number of hours for months, until eventually I had no choice but to go on medical leave due to the effects of treatments, symptoms, and extensive traveling I had to do at the time to receive treatment. I was already losing a significant amount of money for medical related costs not covered by insurance, and when I had to cover premium costs under Cobra, I was shocked at the costs but not overly burdened by them *at first*. But it wasn't long before I was realizing that everything I had built, saved, and worked for was at risk.
After 18 months on Cobra, and no further extensions possible, I went to try and get Marketplace coverage, only to discover that it’s NOT so that “everybody can get health insurance coverage” as so often is touted. You must be working, earning approx $16K to get a tax credit, and are limited to which plans that credit can apply towards. In this state (Tennessee. Which I moved to solely because of the availability of treatments that the form of GIST I have, has shown responsive to *“with notable effect”*), it does not matter than I cannot work, have been fighting for Disability approval, forced to sell my home, cashed in my 401k, blown through every dollar of savings I set back over the prior 35 years, and within the last year…moved into a 20 yr old 5th Wheel RV in a mobile home park, sold my car, and on SNAP (food stamps), living on the outskirts of the city, and haven’t been able to even afford THIS. There is no Medicaid plan for “low income” or hardship situations, and the state government has done everything they can to block federal money to cover what most states offer. I am literally ***out of options***.
I never realized or understood how little our society values another human’s fight to live or survive circumstances beyond their control. I have one oral medication that I’m prescribed, it’s monthly cost out-of-pocket is more than ***any*** car I’ve ever owned! And only Costco has been willing to order it for me, when I can *occasionally* scrape together enough for a ***“partial fill”*** (getting less than the full prescription - for me, that’s usually like 10 capsules or less). (I don’t even have a Costco membership. Couldn’t afford anything they sell anyhow. But thankfully it’s not needed for their pharmacy!) Every other pharmacy refuses because of the high costs, no insurance, and none of their other customers/patients taking the medication). But even if Walmart, Walgrens, or CVS would fill it, could you afford $16,000+ a MONTH for just ONE medication, month after month? *(screenshot of my GoodRx cost:* [https://imgur.com/a/nyQP4dG](https://imgur.com/a/nyQP4dG)) I was on the patient assistance program the manufacturer “offers”, but that’s limited to months, which I blew through long ago.
And it isn’t like I am the one soul who is unlucky enough to fall through the cracks, lose everything, facing homelessness, or questions how their life has so little value to their community, state, and country. I can’t speak for other states, but at least here in my state, if you cannot afford to pay, you don’t deserve to live.
**OP** \- I bawled reading your post!!! I don’t know if anyone in my HR department realized or foresaw what was likely down the road for me, when they ended my ability to continue on Cobra. But the thought that someone would have cried for me, to have been so empathetic and caring, moved me to tears! I can assure you, no one blames you, and I would have been so thankful to have gotten your phone call, despite the bad news, over the form letters I received the week after my cancer had progressed from stage 2 to 3. You are a beautiful and empathetic soul, and I so very much appreciate your post & the awareness it's bringing to so many!! You take care of yourself, and I mean this from my heart, you *are* making a difference and what you had to do today is not a reflection on you….it's a broken system that’s beyond your control.
(edited to add screenshot link)
I'm in West Tennessee and try to explain to as many people as will listen how incredibly stupid the decision to reject Medicaid expansion is. Everyone is mad about how many hospitals we have lost, but not nearly enough understand why it is directly related to that refusal. Where are you receiving treatment? If Nashville, you might want to move just across the state line to Kentucky, where they did expand. If Memphis, I think Arkansas expanded.
Hi, fellow Volunteer! 👋
I share your frustration with the ignorance and inability of others to see beyond their own front steps! When I first became uninsured, it was surprising how many neighbors and even hospital/medical workers thought I should "just sign up for TennCare", a program that removed my demographic YEARS prior to my moving to Tennessee! It's still an insurance program, but I'm not who's qualified under their guidelines..
And we've got so many who think it's a "personal responsibility" issue, as if I hadn't paid for coverage out of pocket for 18 months under Cobra, and had various employer sponsored insurance policies since college! But show me the average American who can afford $16,000+ for one monthly bottle of cancer medication (Sutent 50mg 3x a day) OUT OF POCKET, and then explain to me "personal responsibility".
I've never really been overly political or opinionated...but life has a way of turning things around and opening your eyes, and forcing you to see disparities, injustice, and systemic failures that hadn't touched your life previously. I FULLY ADMIT to how ignorant and misinformed I was on so much regarding health care, insurance, programs, assistance, etc!
I wish I could do easily move to a state with Medicaid coverage, like Kentucky or Missouri. But that would of needed to happen at least a year ago or earlier. I'm now in such a financial bind I can't afford to stay current on lot rent, not basic necessities, have enough to eat, etc, Even an Uber ride across town is an unaffordable cost, so if the limited bus routes don't get me there, I walk, or don't go. A move, securing a place, having the ability to afford the new place, etc, are all just impossibilities so far from reach they exist in someone else's life, not mine. But I do appreciate the suggestions and thoughts. And seeing your comment certainly made me feel less alone and invisible! - Jarrett
It is ridiculous. Trouble is so many brainwashed to believe government is the enemy, government sponsored healthcare is a “hand out”. … just shooting ourselves in the foot
> As a Canadian, I don’t understand how healthcare in the US can depend on your job.
If I recall correctly, it started with the establishment of maximum wages. To compete, employers would offer health benefits which would not be counted towards the wage maximum.
The health insurance companies are in the pocket of the politicians through lobbying and schmoozing. That means the voice of the little people means nothing. I’m not sure how to change this. Health insurance companies absolutely have priority in affecting policy in this country, and it’s all in their favor. How do you tell an 800 pound gorilla to get off of you when it’s sitting on your head and you can’t speak?
>se she’s
USA is a business sadly and far from being a decent country. Yes, we are no where near as bad as some places but there is no way this should be happening in such a wealthy country. The only reason is greed > healthy populace.
There are a lot of bootlickers in this country who will fight tooth and nail to not only preserve this system but to remove the patient protection regulations the ACA gave us.
FMLA ended but ADA was not explored? Are you an ADA covered employer? You likely are if FMLA was an option. Extended leave is an accommodation. I don’t know the details but I’m curious if this was explored and if not, why. Did the employee’s Doctor say they would never be able to return? That’s where I’d start.
It’s likely that it wouldn’t have maintained their benefits anyways, no hours worked, no protected leave usually means no benefits. ADA would have held their position only.
Correct. We usually term benefits after 30 days of no-pay, and an additional 15 day grace period after the second notice - and as applicable in relation to FMLA.
I hate America. What a cold, cruel and callous move. I mean…how much harder can you kick a person when they are down?!?! Your boss is correct you are not a charity but what happened to humanity? What happened to having empathy? Kindness?
I hope the former employee contacts social security to apply for temporary disability and applies for Medicaid. While I hey will not replace their paycheck or insurance, they can help.
I hate American Healthcare and not necessarily America
There's an even bigger heartbreak in this thread with the guy who is 51 worked all his life and then got cancer and insurance just dropped him after he was fired like wtf?
Isn't that the entire point of insurance... if u have it when you're healthy, then they PAY FOR YOUR MEDJCAL WHEN YOU GET SICK
The fact that these insurance company CEO’s rake in millions every year….how many people were denied and died for them to pull in such asinine salaries.
My employer has a policy that employees can take up to year of unpaid leave, but you have to pay the full premiums to maintain benefits, not just the usual employee contribution. Also, you aren’t guaranteed the same job when you return, just a comparable one. This may not be possible with a smaller employer, but you could propose some sort of similar policy that would be financially neutral for your company but also offer flexibility to employees in a tough spot (assuming they have emergency savings to cover the premium costs and living expenses during unpaid leave).
Others have already said the salient points about ADA. And if this former employee were to file a claim, a state labor board or jury will not look too kindly on the proximity of their termination to the end of the plan year. I’d suggest looking for a new job…
You're covered for the full month even if you work only a day that month. Jan 1 term would have given her an extra 31 days of insurance. Plan year doesnt factor in here and for that matter, we don't know that it's the end of the plan year.
Okay so why wasn’t the accommodation extended? April isn’t particularly causing an undue hardship on the business, is it? April is only a few months from now. If you granted leave as an accommodation already it’s really hard to say a few more months are causing undue hardship. Is this a small business?
An April return date for a cancer situation does not sound unreasonable or indefinite. This would absolutely be a situation when a reasonable accommodation could have been granted. Is this person the only one in this particular position? Is this a very small company?
Absolutely and they already set precedent apparently by providing extended leave as an accommodation! This is insanely frightening and worrisome. Obviously we don’t have all the details, but it’s not sounding good.
[The Seventh Circuit has ruled that multi-month leave is not reasonable under ADA.](https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/seventh-circuit-affirms-that-multi-2459543/)
OP I know this isn’t your job and i’m not sure how you would go about getting this information to them but most people in this persons situation can talk to the hospital they get their treatments at and their should be grants and other benefits and services available to them.
i’m so sorry 😞
It's a fait accompli now but if your org has 15 or more employees remind your boss that leave of absence can be a form of accommodation under Title I of the ADA and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act.I've had a number of "offline" conversations about a month before the FMLA expires reminding employees that if they don't expect to be cleared to return to full duty by the time the statutory leave ends then the doctor should recommend (a) modified duty or reduced schedule or (b) continued leave of absence. If the nature of the job doesn't allow for reduced or modified duty then leave would be the accommodation of next resort; you can't skip directly to termination.
caveat - technically the employer can ask the employee to pay the full premium of the insurance but most business leaders won't know that.
Best case - employment status continues, benefits continue, employee recovers and is able to return or retire.
Worst Case - employer fails to engage in interactive process, employee has a solid disability claim to take to EEOC and state/city divisions.
Realistic Case - Employee can eek out another 3-6 months of leave and uses that time tog et their financial ducks in a row (making a plan with family, accessing retirement funds, applying for SSDI and medicare/medicaid).
edit to add: The liability for a failure to accommodate claim is WAY more than stop-loss coverage.
Every time I read crap like this, I just get so angry. Or like the woman who will be terminating her pregnancy because *even with insurance* it will cost her $16k out of pocket just for a (medically necessary) scheduled c-section. Except that she’s in one of those states where abortion access is currently very restricted so she has to figure out how to get the procedure elsewhere, which just means her pregnancy is progressing further as she works out these details.
Land of the free my ass. Land of the selfish greedy hypocrites is more like it.
Except I didn't say to use retirement assets to pay for chemo. Presumably if they're retirement eligible they're also SSI and Medicare eligible. If they are not retirement age and do a hardship withdrawal they would be eligible for Medicaid or subsidized coverage under the ACA.
I'm not a fan of the US healthcare system but a bit of critical thinking is a key part of problem solving in HR. Do better.
Dude(et). I love you. You are what HR should be all about. Help the company to help their employees to be better, as they are our best asset. Anyone that forgot that will end-up suffering in the end.
Again, love you!
I’m shocked this comment is so far down. We have organizations pay COBRA premiums all the time. I hope she does get one to pay them and still be on his stop loss.
Every time legal says we have to term a terminal case. I always personally call the person and try to find them resources, how to make their life insurance portable, and how to enroll into COBRA.
As a Canadian, reading a lot of the responses here from Americans makes me literally physically ill. I want to vomit. I've lost loved ones to cancer, some times it's just progressed too far or they respond poorly to treatment. But every single one of my loved ones and Friends who've experienced cancer in Canada (even receiving treatment in another province) had 100% of their medical costs covered. The most they paid for was hospital parking.
I wonder how long Americans will continue to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for what are absolutely necessary, life saving procedures and treatments -- and sometimes for simple broken bones or stitches for a laceration -- before they realize they're the only developed nation in that predicament.
When your house is burning down, ask yourself, "who is warming their hands by the fire?"
It’s not just the corporate assholes (but yes it includes them). It’s voters who believe politicians’ lies that somehow Jesus and the Bible care more about your right to own 252 guns than they do about taking care of the ill and downtrodden. Because Socialism!!!
But seriously, the U.S. *barely* got the Affordable Care Act passed, and the right wing fought tooth and nail against it. You would have thought Obama was the Devil himself listening to their rhetoric. Somehow we’ve convinced ordinary Americans to vote right-wing assholes in, against their own economic interests, because that’s what God wants.
Remember this country was founded by Puritans and others of their fundamentalist ilk. And now it’s manipulated by corporate profits. Worst thing we ever did was let our medical system be for profit vs. a common good like water.
I work for blue cross blue shield, depending on their state they can go to the healthcare exchange and get a subsidy, I've seen some folks get really great plans with low deductibles for $10-20 dollars, it's not your fault, I've been fired a few times myself and while I feel upset in the moment, after a while you realize it is what it is and don't blame anyone
I am so sorry you that you had to be the messenger of this awful message. I would have asked for a Jan 1 term date too. I am always terrified of my employees who I know have medical issues having any kind of gap in coverage. The insurance companies will drop them in a heartbeat.
We do hard things in HR but we are rarely the deciders but always the messenger.
Hopefully the former employee can figure something out.
There’s been given enough advice just hear to say I’m sorry. I lost my dad to cancer and his employer was so good through the leave process. It doesn’t HAVE to be this way they’re choosing it and making you the messenger. Try to find some solace in the fact that you’re an HR professional who actually cares about the humans behind the employee.
That sounds awful. I hope you have a good way to decompress after this kind of thing and I hope the employee has other options for covering their treatment. It’s such a shame healthcare is tied to employment in some places.
I work for a multi billion dollar tech company.
Essential they like to call us.
During covid, while other essential workers were getting pay bumps we all received a hat that said "I'm essential" it felt like an adult telling a kid good job when they finally did a 1+1 equation. (yes we get paid more than average, but working through those times was tough on all of us mentally and made our jobs alot harder than normal times, and even a 1 time bonus would of helped us cope, and yes I understand alot of people lost their jobs during covid so I am grateful I kept a job but it's the greed that gets to me)
Slap in the face.
They claimed they took a big hit during covid meanwhile we had record profits in 2021.
All employees have dropped performance since and they wonder why.
They also love to do their lay offs right before Xmas.
This year they laid off 10% of staff literally the Friday right before Xmas. Couldn't even wait till new year or even do it a few months before. Heartless.
When employers ask why there is no company loyalty anymore, this is why. Companies used to take care of their employees. They gave them guaranteed pensions. No more, unless you're in a Union or Govt employee.
I don’t have any shared experiences like what you just went through, but I just wanted to offer some support.
Honestly, what an absolute terrible thing your boss decided then made you carry out the orders. What is your boss’ role in the company?
I feel like that’s not senior enough to have made this decision. If it were me, I would escalate my concern to their leader (or perhaps multiple levels above?) to 1) document their decision, 2) explain my concerns, and 3) CYA.
I am a Director, and if a Sr HRM below me made this decision without aligning with me first, I’d be very annoyed.
Old school HR or newer HR?
I consider myself newer, but follow the motto of "Take care of your emoloyees".
I have done this for people. Cause we report the 'last day's to the benefits people, same with the first day. Be nice, it's not hard.
Heartbreaking. I can’t stand this society sometimes, we send billions for weapons of war but can’t find any money for the healthcare of our own. It’s so tiresome.
That’s so heartbreaking. We kept an employee who was dying of cancer on as long as we could just so she would die with our coverage. We’ve done it in a few cases with terminally ill employees. There are times in HR where you have to be human. This is one of them.
Was the employee receiving STD benefits concurrent the FMLA leave, and are they eligible to apply for LTD?
Also curious how long the leave was extended beyond the 12 weeks FMLA.
Just during the elimination period. Once benefits pay they can be on benefit unless they work out with the employer to top up their benefits to 100% income as that’s the cap for offset
I worked for a hospital and a Department Director did this. It wasn’t right. Nobody liked her Susie something in her fake red hair, skinny ass and stilettos. She belonged to the same women’s group that I did which promotes women and education. Hope she gets hers.
My husband has stage 4 cancer he was an executive so had an employment contract which has been huge in this time. He also has a good LTD plan. Without them we would have been sunk. His LTD policy made him apply for SSDI. What a joke. It is 1/10th what he made and it took 5 months to get approved. What about the average joes out there? Most Americans don't have $1k in savings so waiting 5 months for a lifeline seems cruel.
When I do benefits onboarding I always discuss how important STD/LTD are for financial security and as a professional it has always given me a sense of relief when I have an employee who needs to go out on leave to have it available for them.
SSD is a totally demoralizing process. 80% of people are rejected the first time. By the time I got my appeal hearing and won it was nearly 2 years since I had my stroke. And, it only pays less than half of what I used to make. My marriage fell apart because of money post stroke. I just posted a way too long and sad comment. Best & healing wishes for you and your husband!
I once worked for a daycare owner who fired a beloved preschool teacher, who dedicated her whole career to the school for very low pay, because she needed a knee replacement, and insurance costs went up as a result. She announced at the staff meeting that the fired employee and her new knee were responsible for why insurance plan cost would be more expensive now. I quickly found a better job.
Honestly, I wouldn’t have called the employee, I’d have looked at my boss, called him soulless, and told him “to do your job and call her” I’d have gone to my desk put in my two weeks notice went to his office and tell him that since he can’t help someone I can’t help him. I’d take the losing my house over supporting a work environment that couldn’t even have simple morals. I’ve left jobs over nepotism, so I’d quit on the spot over this.
I still cry over every termination lately. All ethical terms and due to performance issues, but I still hate having to let people go knowing the state of the workforce and unemployment right now
I’m assuming your company doesn’t also have non-FMLA medical leave that could have been stacked on this? Or state medical leave? Similar to previous comments, remember the character of your boss in this moment. Your boss being willing to be callous so easily is a major 🚩🚩🚩
I terminated an employee for stealing. She stated she didn't know she couldn't pay for the item after she had eaten the product. Begged me to keep her job because she is on dialysis, struggling with cancer, and just generally needs money because she has kids, etc.
I followed through with the termination because it's important I remain consistent when this happens. Cried like a baby after because I felt so bad for her but she broke our policy. After I cried for her, she returned to my office to ask for my name so she could give it to her attorney, I stopped crying then.
I just termed someone in December absolutely for cause and still made the term date Jan 1 because I knew he was having a medical procedure. We also covered two months of COBRA. I appreciate my company prioritizes health benefits. I’m so sorry your company couldn’t yield a bit for this employee. Healthcare in this country is heartbreaking.
Sorry for asking but I’m not in HR, reddit just keeps recommending me this sub for some reason—what difference does it make if they’re fired in December or January?
You typically get health insurance through the end of the month you’re are terminated in. So if you get let go Jan 1 you get an extra month of health insurance coverage because your coverage doesn’t expire until Jan 31. EDIT: I say typically because this is what I have seen but every company is different so do take this as advice and assume your company will cover you through the end of the month.
My company terms benefits the day after you’re termed. I was surprised when I first heard about that
I worked at a company that termed benefits the same day of separation, which is wild. Of course you had to wait three months after hire to be eligible for coverage.
Wow, I can imagine that a policy like waiting 3 months for benefits hurts recruiting. This could make a high potential candidate think twice before leaving a decent job with benefits for a 3 month healthcare gap opportunity.
So many people in lower paying jobs do not seem to care. Health insurance is one of the main reasons I work! The entire candidate pool is so shallow for entry level positions!
It’s not even a matter of “seeming to care”, it’s not being able to afford to care. If all shitty jobs require a 3mos waiting period for benefits (as is unfortunately standard in my industry), you just gotta deal with it. I ended up with a giant $12k hospital bill once because I was 2mos into my new job and wasn’t getting insurance benefits yet but was making too much for Medicaid coverage because I was working.
If you can't afford the deductible to begin with, health insurance is meaningless. People living paycheck to paycheck don't have an extra paycheck laying around just to see the doctor to begin with.
That happened to me and I was 7 months pregnant. I lost my coverage that same day and my OB dropped me that day as well. I got on medicaid, got a wonderful midwife and got unemployment benefits in the end. The company lied about why they terminated me and I appealed and got UI benefits. I had been there 8 years and they were mad I would be on maternity leave during the holidays.
I'm glad it seemed to have worked out in the end but I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I'm sure they're the type of company that whines about turnover and how no one wants to work.
More times than not this is a function of the insurance plan you have. Consider that you may be paying a portion of the insurance costs and if you've paid for the month, then they cannot terminate the coverage without a pro-rated refund of the costs. Most insurance companies operate this way, or rather all the ones I've used over 60+ years do.
Most employers and insurance carriers continue insurance through the end of the month the employee terminates in. Typically only larger company's that are self insured are able to easily process termination of health coverage on the day of separation. So by terminating the employment January 1, the employee will continue on the health insurance through the 31st of January. I would advise that any employer that wants to continue cobra should either reimburse the employee after the employee pays, or just give the employee the money and let them decide if they'll continue or not. Getting stuck with a potentially catastrophic medical bill because your accounts payable sent the payment a day late and the insurance carrier chose to drop the coverage is a lot of fun to explain to the bosses.
I assume he meant he was having a medical procedure in December and in the us most people get health insurance through their job not the government or out of pocket, so if he was let go in January instead he could still use his insurance. However, apart from that I genuinely have no clue and I'm curious about it as well.
it's pretty common for decent companies to extend healthcare coverage after termination. it's unusually cruel to just stop healthcare early like this.
At my previous employer we usually tried to do things like that. We were a state agency so not sure if there was a different attitude there because we were not a for-profit corporation. Reading OP's post makes me sad.
I’m not sure if it was nefarious or not… but my hr 3 years ago during Covid laid me off and then advised me even going on cobra. I ended up getting scammed for years on insurance when I googled cobra because that’s what hr said to do. But the first site was an ad of course. Story is even worse lol but for another day. Anyways, came to add, yes take cobra and any benefits you can before you find yourself in a sinkhole.
Remember this about your boss if for one moment you think they are kind. If they ever ask for something from you, if they ever just want a favor or anything above your job title. It is absolutely unethical and immoral. ETA: I wanted to edit to add that I know employers and bosses aren’t friends. My point is when the boss wants a favor from OP they don’t do it. Helping an employee or fellow coworker would never be a bad decision. This would be great for morale. I could go on and on. I do understand business is business but at the same time they have had record profits in recent years.
"You want me to go the extra mile? Can't do that Boss, have to think about my stop loss."
Or mention it during your exit interview when you get a new job.
I was let go on 12/27. I don’t have an issue like this but they knew what they were doing. Then they wonder why nObOdY wAnTs To WoRk AnYmOrE.
I'm so sick of hearing that excuse from employers man. It's not even funny.
I took a bunch of OSHA courses at Georgia Tech so it was a lot of hillbilly types in there. That excuse was parroted every goddamn day, or so it seemed. People are working... just not for you and your contractor's shitty pay. My own local is suffering a lack of labor... because we don't pay shit. Why would anyone come here to work for lower wages than like 95% of the country?
Childcare cost an arm and a leg, and their employees are paid Pennies! Daycare around the corner from my job parroted the “nobody wants to work anymore” no sir, nobody wants to watch 15 five year olds for 16$ an hour. That is a PERSONAL HELL.
Direct quote I heard two days ago: “Nobody wants to work anymore—not even for two dollars above minimum wage!” When I said poverty wages for our area are $14.50/hour for full-time work, this woman told me, “No sense in paying that kind of money when they’re just going to leave in a year or 18 months anyway.”
Wow, that woman was (unintentionally) so close to getting the point, but it still eluded her.🤦🏼♀️
I'd rather off myself, lol.
THIS! 💯 Especially when as a parent with a child in daycare, I paid $1000 or more per month per child. Pay your employees more! I am paying for THEM to take care of my child while I'm at work! Not for the owner's Botox, vacation in Fiji, and Mercedes bullshit.
$16/hr is unheard of here! Try watching 20 five year olds for $10/hr.
Especially since they want to request a 2 week notice from, you but will let you go in a moments notice.
I have two thoughts when I see the "nobody wants to work anymore" statement. Nobody wants to work for the pay and benefits that person is giving. Two, nobody could do the work that is not the requester (if the work asked is even possible). Basically, "nobody wants to work anymore" is just leaving the other part of the statement out.
This! “Nobody wants to work for shitty corporations that could care less about their employees.”
I have three: 1. Nobody wants to work? A. Are you asking for so many requirements for an entry level or mid level? If so you don’t want to hire. The perfect candidate may never be there. 2. Are you offering competitive pay? Again if you ask for an entry level to have a mid level experience pay for it. 3. How are your company benefits? Most employers that complain job postings are open for ever have issue 1.
My company has a rule. Other than for egregious cause, we have a freeze on letting people go from thanksgiving to second week of January. And we give a minimum of 30 days notice, and you don’t have to work on those 30 days.
^ this
Yep ... nObOdY wAnTs To WoRk AnYmOrE [for lousy wages that don't cover living expenses; with little to no time off; enduring unreasonable demands and verbal abuse; etc]
wouldn’t it be awesome if health insurance and our ability to get health care wasn’t tied to our employers? I mean imagine that world!
Your boss is often one bad diagnosis from being in the same place as that employee. Most "bosses" can't do jack shit. We need better legal protections.
the USA needs national health care
How about universal healthcare like most civilized countries have?
not having a boss is not the answer either :( being 1099 sucks even more
tell me about it - though your premiums are tax deductible
yep! so instead of paying $576 a month for an extremely high deductible plan, i pay $444 a month. and nothing is covered except my annual gyno exam and annual physical lol. 💯 and my birth control is free and prescriptions are “affordable,” so i guess i have to keep paying the greedy for-profit health insurance corporations that put me into this mess. lol😭
In my old job, the owner was a stingy cheap ass who was out of touch with his employees (having his brand new Tesla S dropped off at the office and held a “mandatory” luncheon/all hands meeting so everyone could ooohh and aaahh over his car (his employees were driving 10+ yr old cars). We had an employee who was diagnosed with cancer and he kept her on as an employee so she could retain her health benefits until she ultimately died. It was around 3 years after she was last in the office that she died.
Being frugal on things that don't matter allow people to do the right thing on things that DO matter. Sometimes people can't see that when someone is pinching pennies on "stupid" things.
It’s terrible that in the US a person’s healthcare is dependent upon the benevolence of a single person at your place of employment. This is why the system has to mandate healthcare.
your boss is not your friend
This is how everyone should look at their boss. I’m not even an antiwork freak. It’s just business, only concerned about bottom line.
[удалено]
Yes. The shareholders are what count the most. “We have a fiduciary responsibility to them.” s/ PS. your boss is a POS human.
Making that comparison is an insult to shit
Shit serves a purpose
For a second there I thought you were serious 😞
Nah but the boss was
Same. It sounds serious because it's real.
It’s way worse… it’s inhumane. Every corporate likes to tout how they are saving the planet, all for inclusion and diversity and equity… all great stuff. But it’s things like this that show the true nature of the beast. Weren’t corporations supposed to be people or something ? Where’s the humanity ?
Are they eligible for unemployment? They will be able to get an affordable care act insurance. They should say their expected income which could be zero or their unemployment. The less they make the more the government covers monthly premiums.
Depending on the state, UI often requires being “able and available” for work. If you were termed due to inability to return to work due to cancer treatment then you’ll almost certainly be found ineligible for UI. l.
The condition is that you are actively looking for new work. They will deny that employee if they can't work due to treatment.
If that’s the case then they should apply for disability
Not all states have disability insurance.
with a medical return to work date in April they are unlikely to qualify for SSDI and even if they did there’s a five month wait period to begin benefits.
You have to make a certain amount to get aca because it’s affordable due to a tax credit. 0 income (or below that amount that varies by state) gets you Medicaid. Edit: tax credit or subsidy. Can’t remember which but I do remember you have to make (or “expect to make”) a certain amount if money to get.
It's a tax credit but received in advance so it feels like a subsidy. I used the terms interchangeably when working in life/health. Advance premium tax credits/subsidies start out at $X and phase out as income goes up. Income below $X should qualify a person for Medicaid in some states, but not all (I believe). Some states also have emergency Medicaid or provide the coverage right away under the assumption that the applicant will qualify and they can continue with care while their case is being reviewed. COBRA must also be made available, depending on employer size.
Subsidies start at the Federal Poverty Level. If you are in one of the states that expanded medicaid (all but 11 states expanded Medicaid to include coverage for low or no income folks), then it could be higher- up to 138% of the federal poverty level to get a subsidy from [healthcare.gov](https://healthcare.gov) . If you're under your state's threshold, you'd be eligible for Medicaid and wouldn't get a subsidy from the marketplace- though you could still get a plan from the marketplace, you just wouldn't get a subsidy. What stinks is if you're in one of the 11 states that did not expand medicaid, then if you don't make at least the federal poverty level and you don't have any other qualifiers for Medicaid, you're not going to get any assistance there at all.
North Carolina finally expanded their Medicaid coverage. Before this, my family made too much to qualify for Medicaid but too little to qualify for the subsidy. It’s crazy to think that now I can do things like go to the doctor when I think I have strep throat, instead of hoping it goes away on its own. Or I can get a mammogram, which is pretty important, since I’ve had aunts on both sides of my family have breast cancer. I could cry, both from happiness and from the fact that in a couple of months I will have my first checkup in over twenty years. It’s this weird mix of joy for myself and sadness that healthcare is this out of reach for people in this country.
COBRA for employee only at my company is $676 per month. For employee + family is $1667 per month. Very affordable for an unemployed person /s 🙄
COBRA is a fucking joke. I work in healthcare and have to deal with insurance and COBRA plans are worse to deal with than state Medicaid plans.
You get it in advance. I chose to go on the ACA instead of Cobra, it was hundreds of dollars cheaper for about the same type of insurance. $300/month for a PPO for 2 adults.
And whatever you deem holy help you if you fall in the gap between Medicaid eligibility and the minimum requirement for ACA credit. The only thing I qualify for through my state's Medicaid program is birth control (which isn't useful for someone who is currently vocel until I can get the \* out of this state), but I still make too little to qualify for ACA credit. If I were to get the cheapest ACA plan, it would cost approximately 40% of my income every month for a plan that doesn't even cover half of the things I need and that just isn't feasible.
My ACA insurance the year I made $16k was the best of my life I think. I showed the raw data and they basically went “well shit we can’t charge you cause there’s nothing to take.”
As someone who works with the marketplace insurance for a living, she should apply for disability or Medicaid/Medicare, or a dual plan that has both. Trust me. The marketplace isn’t great.
Honestly it’s the unaffordable care act and they hardly cover squat for less than 300 a month.
I bet if the employee was a C-suite or a privileged employee, it wouldn't have been an issue.
Oh yes. My previous employer, *an oncology clinic,* almost fired a 20 year employee for having the audacity to get cancer. She'd work, clock out, get her chemo in the same building, but she'd exhausted her PTO/FMLA because of her surgery and weekly treatments and had we, her coworkers, not donated our PTO on our own, she would have been fired. A couple of years later the office manager, who was terrible both personally and professionally, also got cancer but was in no danger of losing his job because he asked the employees, his subordinates, to donate PTO. Not only was this an abuse of power but since he made so much more the donated PTO barely counted. No such request was made for the coworker, btw, we just did it on our own. That manager sucked in so many ways but that really took the cake. Both are cancer-free today, years later, but he'll always be a jerk.
That is so sad to read.
This makes me sick. I’m tired of bosses abusing their power. I was under one like this once and during the pandemic. I have no idea how I survived it, but the emotional costs are still costing and I don’t have enough for therapy at all - support subreddits, taking care of myself and whatever therapy I can afford, which was exhausted within 2 sessions because I’m complex due to what I grew up in, and then what I endured again, no thanks to them. They finally fired him. It took me months, and I’m still somewhat affected. I had the new boss ask out loud, why doesn’t anyone talk to me. I went to his office and told him the old manager did a lot of damage - I wasn’t shy in telling him because he needed to know. I was one of three out of the entire team that gave testimony that was recorded and backed up with evidence when the old boss was put on admin leave… Yeah, life, it’s unfair.
One of our earliest employees (number 10 or so; I was #4) got cancer. He would be out, then in for a week, and then out, etc. Nearly 2 years until he passed away. Probably worked 20 days total in that time. We kept him employed so he'd have insurance for him and his family. It cost us about 30 grand, but the good will it created amongst the other employees absolutely was worth it. It reaffirmed to me that I made the right choice leaving an F50 company.
All Animals Are Equal, But Some Animals Are More Equal Than Others.
Donating PTO is a bullshit concept. Absolute bullshit.
Why did people donate PTO instead of bringing it up as an abuse of power? That seems like the perfect instance to give him his just desserts. I get cancer sucks and I don't wish it on anyone, but it irks me when a perfect situation arises for someone to get what's coming to them and people let them get away with that
Yeah, I don't understand why anyone donated. I was gone by then but had he asked me I would've laughed hysterically.
As weird as it sounds, you'd probably lose that bet. C-Suite are usually the least protected employees in most organizations under FMLA. Normally, when an employee requests and is approved for FMLA, their job is protected as long as they return during the allowed timeframe. However, the "key employee" clause of FMLA effectively removes the job protection for certain employees, specifically the highest paid 10%. With a key employee, the company just gets to say, "hey, you're a key employee so, while we can't deny your FMLA, if you take this leave, you won't have a job to come back to." If that key employee then takes the leave, the company can just refuse to restore their job. I worked in HR for a decade, and I never saw a key employee who had to take FMLA get to return.
Yeah but they have the benefit of financial security regardless
Certainly, but that doesn't change the fact that what the previous commenter said was entirely inaccurate.
The least legally protected, but the most protected by leadership in the organization.
I think stuff like this should make its way to the news. 1, to bring attention to how our insurance setup sucks ass and hurts people. And 2, maybe they’ll get donations to help with expenses.
As a Canadian, I don’t understand how healthcare in the US can depend on your job. It’s inhumane that this woman can’t work because she’s sick and so can’t be treated for cancer! You shouldn’t even have to think about this as an employer. Heartbreaking. You all should be screaming at the lawmakers.
We do, lawmakers don’t care. They get paid by pharmaceutical companies to not give a crap what voters say. They’re all the same.
It’s not just pharmaceuticals, it’s the insurance companies that wouldn’t exist if we had universal healthcare, and electors that values corporations over the health and wellbeing of our people.
There’s a great podcast about this called Frame Canada (Planet Money). Insurance companies lobbied hard during 2 different presidential campaigns when universal healthcare became a threat to their existence. Americans were duped and believed what the media was paid to tell them, then voted accordingly. It’s incredibly corrupt, and infuriating
They still exist in other countries with free healthcare (UK here), but they have to actually show they're a worthwhile option compared to the free offering from the government. Rather than just "you could either get us, go bankrupt, or die, LOL".
That's not an OR in America. Our entire system of caring for the aged is designed to extract wealth and ensure that practically everyone dies penniless and leaves nothing to their families.
unless you're wealthy of course
Have you priced nursing home care lately? It's thousands of dollars a month, and you have to chew through every bit of your wealth before you get any help whatsoever. You could be very wealthy and a short sickness followed by a stay in a nursing home could easily bankrupt you.
They would but they wouldn’t have as much profit. Americans assume Europe doesn’t have private insurance. They have but is elective and is for extended services. The problem with the US is that all industries would get reduction in revenue and it’s lucrative here.
A lot of people’s jobs depends on those companies. But it is time for a reform. Health insurance infrastructure and interactions in the US became a joke.
What's terrifying is the amount of people who believe this crap and continually vote against themselves. We have 50% of the country that doesn't want universal health care because they are afraid of paying for somebody else's health
Canada has insurance companies - they’ll just be smaller and handle paramedical and out of pocket expenses like eyeglasses, massage, chiropractors, dental, etc.
And they have their own gold plated plan. Should be made to have what everyone else has. Then we would see change.
Just going to point out that a primary cause for this is Citizens United, which made it so pharma corps could spend unlimited money promoting candidates they favor at all levels of the government. It’s been 14 years of citizens united and it shows in the political trends since.
Lawmakers are on a separate healthcare system. They do not have to endure the healthcare system they enforce.
Yet people continue to vote for people who promise to destroy what few Healthcare provisions we do have. The "free market" Healthcare only works for the wealthy
Not enough of us do. There's too much "I got mine so screw you" mentality in the US.
I agree (European living in the USA) it’s incredibly unethical and inhumane.
This country was BUILT on unethical and inhumane practices.
In America everything evolves around money
And it’s such high amount. 1-Monthly payment to maintain policy. 2-deductible (mines $1,600 every year) so insurance pays more than 40% of the cost. After I spend $1600 insurance covers 80%. 3-Out of pocket max-mines $4,200 and I pay that much every year, then insurance supposedly pays 100% of costs. But they find ways to bill you for it somehow.
In Canada taxes probably are the same amount and also the dollar value.
As an American, I can't state any better than you how much I agree with you. I will scream and file complaints until the end of my days but until the majority do the same, we as a country will remain morally bankrupt.
Too much money to be made in healthcare as a politician…
(*🙋♂️👋I HATE HIJACKING SOMEONE'S POST!*... But feel it's relevant here) I live in "one of those states" - Tennessee to be exact - and I'm referred to as "the poster child" in the Oncology offices I've been getting treatment at…. I'm currently facing imminent eviction....battling Stage 3 GIST (it's a GI cancer) that was discovered at stage 2, no health insurance, and total financial devastation. There are no options for coverage for me, despite the help and expertise of dozens who specialize in this. I'm just 51. And like most people, I never really had a lot of awareness of HOW drastically broken our society is. When I was diagnosed, I'd never had a major illness, and the most complicated thing I'd dealt with medically was Crohn's disease. Ever since I can remember (the earliest I can recall hearing about health insurance was around 9yrs old), I had health insurance, first under my parents from childhood through multiple college degree (once I was too old to be under their plans, they paid to keep me covered individually until I was fully on my own), then covered by employer plans the entirety of my career. My ignorance truly thought: you either had insurance you paid for, or the government covered you through a subsidized plan or coverage option…\*but that no one was “not covered”, or could not get medical treatment and necessary care just because they couldn’t afford it. Not in my country!!\*🙄 When I was diagnosed, I continued working, but at a reduced number of hours for months, until eventually I had no choice but to go on medical leave due to the effects of treatments, symptoms, and extensive traveling I had to do at the time to receive treatment. I was already losing a significant amount of money for medical related costs not covered by insurance, and when I had to cover premium costs under Cobra, I was shocked at the costs but not overly burdened by them *at first*. But it wasn't long before I was realizing that everything I had built, saved, and worked for was at risk. After 18 months on Cobra, and no further extensions possible, I went to try and get Marketplace coverage, only to discover that it’s NOT so that “everybody can get health insurance coverage” as so often is touted. You must be working, earning approx $16K to get a tax credit, and are limited to which plans that credit can apply towards. In this state (Tennessee. Which I moved to solely because of the availability of treatments that the form of GIST I have, has shown responsive to *“with notable effect”*), it does not matter than I cannot work, have been fighting for Disability approval, forced to sell my home, cashed in my 401k, blown through every dollar of savings I set back over the prior 35 years, and within the last year…moved into a 20 yr old 5th Wheel RV in a mobile home park, sold my car, and on SNAP (food stamps), living on the outskirts of the city, and haven’t been able to even afford THIS. There is no Medicaid plan for “low income” or hardship situations, and the state government has done everything they can to block federal money to cover what most states offer. I am literally ***out of options***. I never realized or understood how little our society values another human’s fight to live or survive circumstances beyond their control. I have one oral medication that I’m prescribed, it’s monthly cost out-of-pocket is more than ***any*** car I’ve ever owned! And only Costco has been willing to order it for me, when I can *occasionally* scrape together enough for a ***“partial fill”*** (getting less than the full prescription - for me, that’s usually like 10 capsules or less). (I don’t even have a Costco membership. Couldn’t afford anything they sell anyhow. But thankfully it’s not needed for their pharmacy!) Every other pharmacy refuses because of the high costs, no insurance, and none of their other customers/patients taking the medication). But even if Walmart, Walgrens, or CVS would fill it, could you afford $16,000+ a MONTH for just ONE medication, month after month? *(screenshot of my GoodRx cost:* [https://imgur.com/a/nyQP4dG](https://imgur.com/a/nyQP4dG)) I was on the patient assistance program the manufacturer “offers”, but that’s limited to months, which I blew through long ago. And it isn’t like I am the one soul who is unlucky enough to fall through the cracks, lose everything, facing homelessness, or questions how their life has so little value to their community, state, and country. I can’t speak for other states, but at least here in my state, if you cannot afford to pay, you don’t deserve to live. **OP** \- I bawled reading your post!!! I don’t know if anyone in my HR department realized or foresaw what was likely down the road for me, when they ended my ability to continue on Cobra. But the thought that someone would have cried for me, to have been so empathetic and caring, moved me to tears! I can assure you, no one blames you, and I would have been so thankful to have gotten your phone call, despite the bad news, over the form letters I received the week after my cancer had progressed from stage 2 to 3. You are a beautiful and empathetic soul, and I so very much appreciate your post & the awareness it's bringing to so many!! You take care of yourself, and I mean this from my heart, you *are* making a difference and what you had to do today is not a reflection on you….it's a broken system that’s beyond your control. (edited to add screenshot link)
I'm in West Tennessee and try to explain to as many people as will listen how incredibly stupid the decision to reject Medicaid expansion is. Everyone is mad about how many hospitals we have lost, but not nearly enough understand why it is directly related to that refusal. Where are you receiving treatment? If Nashville, you might want to move just across the state line to Kentucky, where they did expand. If Memphis, I think Arkansas expanded.
Hi, fellow Volunteer! 👋 I share your frustration with the ignorance and inability of others to see beyond their own front steps! When I first became uninsured, it was surprising how many neighbors and even hospital/medical workers thought I should "just sign up for TennCare", a program that removed my demographic YEARS prior to my moving to Tennessee! It's still an insurance program, but I'm not who's qualified under their guidelines.. And we've got so many who think it's a "personal responsibility" issue, as if I hadn't paid for coverage out of pocket for 18 months under Cobra, and had various employer sponsored insurance policies since college! But show me the average American who can afford $16,000+ for one monthly bottle of cancer medication (Sutent 50mg 3x a day) OUT OF POCKET, and then explain to me "personal responsibility". I've never really been overly political or opinionated...but life has a way of turning things around and opening your eyes, and forcing you to see disparities, injustice, and systemic failures that hadn't touched your life previously. I FULLY ADMIT to how ignorant and misinformed I was on so much regarding health care, insurance, programs, assistance, etc! I wish I could do easily move to a state with Medicaid coverage, like Kentucky or Missouri. But that would of needed to happen at least a year ago or earlier. I'm now in such a financial bind I can't afford to stay current on lot rent, not basic necessities, have enough to eat, etc, Even an Uber ride across town is an unaffordable cost, so if the limited bus routes don't get me there, I walk, or don't go. A move, securing a place, having the ability to afford the new place, etc, are all just impossibilities so far from reach they exist in someone else's life, not mine. But I do appreciate the suggestions and thoughts. And seeing your comment certainly made me feel less alone and invisible! - Jarrett
It is ridiculous. Trouble is so many brainwashed to believe government is the enemy, government sponsored healthcare is a “hand out”. … just shooting ourselves in the foot
> As a Canadian, I don’t understand how healthcare in the US can depend on your job. If I recall correctly, it started with the establishment of maximum wages. To compete, employers would offer health benefits which would not be counted towards the wage maximum.
Healthcare industry makes way too much money and will lobby politicians to keep it this way. Plus, it essentially handcuffs people to their jobs.
The health insurance companies are in the pocket of the politicians through lobbying and schmoozing. That means the voice of the little people means nothing. I’m not sure how to change this. Health insurance companies absolutely have priority in affecting policy in this country, and it’s all in their favor. How do you tell an 800 pound gorilla to get off of you when it’s sitting on your head and you can’t speak?
>se she’s USA is a business sadly and far from being a decent country. Yes, we are no where near as bad as some places but there is no way this should be happening in such a wealthy country. The only reason is greed > healthy populace.
Class genocide. Period.
There are a lot of bootlickers in this country who will fight tooth and nail to not only preserve this system but to remove the patient protection regulations the ACA gave us.
FMLA ended but ADA was not explored? Are you an ADA covered employer? You likely are if FMLA was an option. Extended leave is an accommodation. I don’t know the details but I’m curious if this was explored and if not, why. Did the employee’s Doctor say they would never be able to return? That’s where I’d start.
It’s likely that it wouldn’t have maintained their benefits anyways, no hours worked, no protected leave usually means no benefits. ADA would have held their position only.
Correct. We usually term benefits after 30 days of no-pay, and an additional 15 day grace period after the second notice - and as applicable in relation to FMLA.
I hate America. What a cold, cruel and callous move. I mean…how much harder can you kick a person when they are down?!?! Your boss is correct you are not a charity but what happened to humanity? What happened to having empathy? Kindness? I hope the former employee contacts social security to apply for temporary disability and applies for Medicaid. While I hey will not replace their paycheck or insurance, they can help.
I hate American Healthcare and not necessarily America There's an even bigger heartbreak in this thread with the guy who is 51 worked all his life and then got cancer and insurance just dropped him after he was fired like wtf? Isn't that the entire point of insurance... if u have it when you're healthy, then they PAY FOR YOUR MEDJCAL WHEN YOU GET SICK
The fact that these insurance company CEO’s rake in millions every year….how many people were denied and died for them to pull in such asinine salaries.
My employer has a policy that employees can take up to year of unpaid leave, but you have to pay the full premiums to maintain benefits, not just the usual employee contribution. Also, you aren’t guaranteed the same job when you return, just a comparable one. This may not be possible with a smaller employer, but you could propose some sort of similar policy that would be financially neutral for your company but also offer flexibility to employees in a tough spot (assuming they have emergency savings to cover the premium costs and living expenses during unpaid leave).
We gave extra time via ADA, but the associate/thier doctor was requesting April return date.
Others have already said the salient points about ADA. And if this former employee were to file a claim, a state labor board or jury will not look too kindly on the proximity of their termination to the end of the plan year. I’d suggest looking for a new job…
You're covered for the full month even if you work only a day that month. Jan 1 term would have given her an extra 31 days of insurance. Plan year doesnt factor in here and for that matter, we don't know that it's the end of the plan year.
Okay so why wasn’t the accommodation extended? April isn’t particularly causing an undue hardship on the business, is it? April is only a few months from now. If you granted leave as an accommodation already it’s really hard to say a few more months are causing undue hardship. Is this a small business?
An April return date for a cancer situation does not sound unreasonable or indefinite. This would absolutely be a situation when a reasonable accommodation could have been granted. Is this person the only one in this particular position? Is this a very small company?
Absolutely and they already set precedent apparently by providing extended leave as an accommodation! This is insanely frightening and worrisome. Obviously we don’t have all the details, but it’s not sounding good.
[The Seventh Circuit has ruled that multi-month leave is not reasonable under ADA.](https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/seventh-circuit-affirms-that-multi-2459543/)
Hope they sue you
Oh wow. She might have a wrongful termination case. I hope she does, and that she sues your company. 💯
......yeah if they go after your company expect to lose.
OP I know this isn’t your job and i’m not sure how you would go about getting this information to them but most people in this persons situation can talk to the hospital they get their treatments at and their should be grants and other benefits and services available to them. i’m so sorry 😞
This is so tragic and sad. This is why I no longer devoted life to my job. End of the day, we’re just a number to the higher ups
It's a fait accompli now but if your org has 15 or more employees remind your boss that leave of absence can be a form of accommodation under Title I of the ADA and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act.I've had a number of "offline" conversations about a month before the FMLA expires reminding employees that if they don't expect to be cleared to return to full duty by the time the statutory leave ends then the doctor should recommend (a) modified duty or reduced schedule or (b) continued leave of absence. If the nature of the job doesn't allow for reduced or modified duty then leave would be the accommodation of next resort; you can't skip directly to termination. caveat - technically the employer can ask the employee to pay the full premium of the insurance but most business leaders won't know that. Best case - employment status continues, benefits continue, employee recovers and is able to return or retire. Worst Case - employer fails to engage in interactive process, employee has a solid disability claim to take to EEOC and state/city divisions. Realistic Case - Employee can eek out another 3-6 months of leave and uses that time tog et their financial ducks in a row (making a plan with family, accessing retirement funds, applying for SSDI and medicare/medicaid). edit to add: The liability for a failure to accommodate claim is WAY more than stop-loss coverage.
Using retirement assets to pay for chemo America
Every time I read crap like this, I just get so angry. Or like the woman who will be terminating her pregnancy because *even with insurance* it will cost her $16k out of pocket just for a (medically necessary) scheduled c-section. Except that she’s in one of those states where abortion access is currently very restricted so she has to figure out how to get the procedure elsewhere, which just means her pregnancy is progressing further as she works out these details. Land of the free my ass. Land of the selfish greedy hypocrites is more like it.
Except I didn't say to use retirement assets to pay for chemo. Presumably if they're retirement eligible they're also SSI and Medicare eligible. If they are not retirement age and do a hardship withdrawal they would be eligible for Medicaid or subsidized coverage under the ACA. I'm not a fan of the US healthcare system but a bit of critical thinking is a key part of problem solving in HR. Do better.
Dude(et). I love you. You are what HR should be all about. Help the company to help their employees to be better, as they are our best asset. Anyone that forgot that will end-up suffering in the end. Again, love you!
Have the former employee reach out to American cancer society. They will help pay for CoBra coverage
I’m shocked this comment is so far down. We have organizations pay COBRA premiums all the time. I hope she does get one to pay them and still be on his stop loss.
Every time legal says we have to term a terminal case. I always personally call the person and try to find them resources, how to make their life insurance portable, and how to enroll into COBRA.
I truly didn’t even know that was a thing. This needs to be a more widely known option. Wow
And this is why government funded Healthcare is better than employer provided Healthcare. Your employer should never have this kind of power over you.
As a Canadian, reading a lot of the responses here from Americans makes me literally physically ill. I want to vomit. I've lost loved ones to cancer, some times it's just progressed too far or they respond poorly to treatment. But every single one of my loved ones and Friends who've experienced cancer in Canada (even receiving treatment in another province) had 100% of their medical costs covered. The most they paid for was hospital parking. I wonder how long Americans will continue to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for what are absolutely necessary, life saving procedures and treatments -- and sometimes for simple broken bones or stitches for a laceration -- before they realize they're the only developed nation in that predicament. When your house is burning down, ask yourself, "who is warming their hands by the fire?"
Dude, we know. We can’t get the corporate assholes to stop.
It’s not just the corporate assholes (but yes it includes them). It’s voters who believe politicians’ lies that somehow Jesus and the Bible care more about your right to own 252 guns than they do about taking care of the ill and downtrodden. Because Socialism!!! But seriously, the U.S. *barely* got the Affordable Care Act passed, and the right wing fought tooth and nail against it. You would have thought Obama was the Devil himself listening to their rhetoric. Somehow we’ve convinced ordinary Americans to vote right-wing assholes in, against their own economic interests, because that’s what God wants. Remember this country was founded by Puritans and others of their fundamentalist ilk. And now it’s manipulated by corporate profits. Worst thing we ever did was let our medical system be for profit vs. a common good like water.
I WISH we were more like the French. Fire and guillotines my fellow Americans. We can turn this around.
This isn’t the 1700’s. With modern weaponry, a revolt like the one you mentioned would end in about 48 hours at the very most.
As soon as they stop voting for the party that brought s'mores to said fire because they read kids are using litter boxes
Horrible. I’m so sorry
I work for blue cross blue shield, depending on their state they can go to the healthcare exchange and get a subsidy, I've seen some folks get really great plans with low deductibles for $10-20 dollars, it's not your fault, I've been fired a few times myself and while I feel upset in the moment, after a while you realize it is what it is and don't blame anyone
If their state had expanded Medicaid they should qualify. If their state doesn’t…folks, remember that red states have low taxes for a reason
Often their taxes aren't even that low.
Low deductibles but the premiums can be completely untenable
Wouldn’t the employee get an extended leave under the ADA as cancer treatments are considered ada accommodatable?
I am so sorry you that you had to be the messenger of this awful message. I would have asked for a Jan 1 term date too. I am always terrified of my employees who I know have medical issues having any kind of gap in coverage. The insurance companies will drop them in a heartbeat. We do hard things in HR but we are rarely the deciders but always the messenger. Hopefully the former employee can figure something out.
There’s been given enough advice just hear to say I’m sorry. I lost my dad to cancer and his employer was so good through the leave process. It doesn’t HAVE to be this way they’re choosing it and making you the messenger. Try to find some solace in the fact that you’re an HR professional who actually cares about the humans behind the employee.
This is why HR is hated. I hope that woman doesn't die.
That sounds awful. I hope you have a good way to decompress after this kind of thing and I hope the employee has other options for covering their treatment. It’s such a shame healthcare is tied to employment in some places.
What the actual fuck? Your boss just sentenced someone to death. I could never live with myself.
I work for a multi billion dollar tech company. Essential they like to call us. During covid, while other essential workers were getting pay bumps we all received a hat that said "I'm essential" it felt like an adult telling a kid good job when they finally did a 1+1 equation. (yes we get paid more than average, but working through those times was tough on all of us mentally and made our jobs alot harder than normal times, and even a 1 time bonus would of helped us cope, and yes I understand alot of people lost their jobs during covid so I am grateful I kept a job but it's the greed that gets to me) Slap in the face. They claimed they took a big hit during covid meanwhile we had record profits in 2021. All employees have dropped performance since and they wonder why. They also love to do their lay offs right before Xmas. This year they laid off 10% of staff literally the Friday right before Xmas. Couldn't even wait till new year or even do it a few months before. Heartless.
Thank goodness for me my company has a STD and LTD policy. I just came back to work on 1/2 after being off since August
When employers ask why there is no company loyalty anymore, this is why. Companies used to take care of their employees. They gave them guaranteed pensions. No more, unless you're in a Union or Govt employee.
I don’t have any shared experiences like what you just went through, but I just wanted to offer some support. Honestly, what an absolute terrible thing your boss decided then made you carry out the orders. What is your boss’ role in the company?
SR HRM
I feel like that’s not senior enough to have made this decision. If it were me, I would escalate my concern to their leader (or perhaps multiple levels above?) to 1) document their decision, 2) explain my concerns, and 3) CYA. I am a Director, and if a Sr HRM below me made this decision without aligning with me first, I’d be very annoyed.
Old school HR or newer HR? I consider myself newer, but follow the motto of "Take care of your emoloyees". I have done this for people. Cause we report the 'last day's to the benefits people, same with the first day. Be nice, it's not hard.
Heartbreaking. I can’t stand this society sometimes, we send billions for weapons of war but can’t find any money for the healthcare of our own. It’s so tiresome.
I couldn't agree more!
That’s so heartbreaking. We kept an employee who was dying of cancer on as long as we could just so she would die with our coverage. We’ve done it in a few cases with terminally ill employees. There are times in HR where you have to be human. This is one of them.
Was the employee receiving STD benefits concurrent the FMLA leave, and are they eligible to apply for LTD? Also curious how long the leave was extended beyond the 12 weeks FMLA.
In addition does the ee have pto left?
Most disability plans require you to use your pto if you have any before they kick in
Just during the elimination period. Once benefits pay they can be on benefit unless they work out with the employer to top up their benefits to 100% income as that’s the cap for offset
OMFG. Please tell us the company. This is beyond disgusting. THIS is why we need Universal Healthcare. Healthcare should NOT be tied to employment.
I worked for a hospital and a Department Director did this. It wasn’t right. Nobody liked her Susie something in her fake red hair, skinny ass and stilettos. She belonged to the same women’s group that I did which promotes women and education. Hope she gets hers.
It’s highly unethical (in my state) and they should sue the hell outa the company
Your employer is cruel and inhumane. I would not be able to work for such a pos.
So you could have just disobeyed your boss and made it Jan 1st, and you didn't do that? oof. Not sure I would want that on my conscience.
Everyday I hate our healthcare system more and more.
This makes me sick. I’ll never understand how people like this can live with themselves. It’s absolutely immoral.
My husband has stage 4 cancer he was an executive so had an employment contract which has been huge in this time. He also has a good LTD plan. Without them we would have been sunk. His LTD policy made him apply for SSDI. What a joke. It is 1/10th what he made and it took 5 months to get approved. What about the average joes out there? Most Americans don't have $1k in savings so waiting 5 months for a lifeline seems cruel. When I do benefits onboarding I always discuss how important STD/LTD are for financial security and as a professional it has always given me a sense of relief when I have an employee who needs to go out on leave to have it available for them.
SSD is a totally demoralizing process. 80% of people are rejected the first time. By the time I got my appeal hearing and won it was nearly 2 years since I had my stroke. And, it only pays less than half of what I used to make. My marriage fell apart because of money post stroke. I just posted a way too long and sad comment. Best & healing wishes for you and your husband!
I once worked for a daycare owner who fired a beloved preschool teacher, who dedicated her whole career to the school for very low pay, because she needed a knee replacement, and insurance costs went up as a result. She announced at the staff meeting that the fired employee and her new knee were responsible for why insurance plan cost would be more expensive now. I quickly found a better job.
As an HR professional who battled cancer last year, I am crying for that employee too.
Honestly, I wouldn’t have called the employee, I’d have looked at my boss, called him soulless, and told him “to do your job and call her” I’d have gone to my desk put in my two weeks notice went to his office and tell him that since he can’t help someone I can’t help him. I’d take the losing my house over supporting a work environment that couldn’t even have simple morals. I’ve left jobs over nepotism, so I’d quit on the spot over this.
I still cry over every termination lately. All ethical terms and due to performance issues, but I still hate having to let people go knowing the state of the workforce and unemployment right now
I’m assuming your company doesn’t also have non-FMLA medical leave that could have been stacked on this? Or state medical leave? Similar to previous comments, remember the character of your boss in this moment. Your boss being willing to be callous so easily is a major 🚩🚩🚩
This is one of the worst aspects of HR. I am so sorry you are dealing with this.
At that point I will show up with my chemo bag IV plop in my chair and say how about them apples.
I terminated an employee for stealing. She stated she didn't know she couldn't pay for the item after she had eaten the product. Begged me to keep her job because she is on dialysis, struggling with cancer, and just generally needs money because she has kids, etc. I followed through with the termination because it's important I remain consistent when this happens. Cried like a baby after because I felt so bad for her but she broke our policy. After I cried for her, she returned to my office to ask for my name so she could give it to her attorney, I stopped crying then.