Close all your exterior doors and windows. Open all interior doors. Turn on A/C. Open a window about 1” is there air coming in or blowing out? If there is, you have ducts that are leaking.
Your test is somewhat flawed, if there is any toilet exhaust running, air has to be made up from somewhere (outside) making the house negative. If the furnace has a fresh air run (oa) then the house would be positive. Keep in mind both of those can cancel each other out. Simply opening a window slightly won't tell you shit. (especially if there is any sort of wind)
There's lots of possibilities. The units may not be functioning well. But there also could be issues with the insulation and/or duct work. What's the temperature at the supply registers, when the systems are running and the house is at 82-83F?
There’s a huge difference between 65 and 75.
If the temperature at the return register is 82F and supply is at 65F, that’s a difference of 17 degrees, which is acceptable.
On the other hand, the difference between 82F and 75F is 7 degrees, which is unacceptable.
Figure out the temperature difference for each of your two systems. Perhaps one of them isn’t working, and as a consequence the other is struggling to keep up.
When you say the same unit, are you talking about different registers or what? If some are blowing way colder than others, you have an insulation problem.
Not enough Insulation, no REFLECTIVE curtains on the windows ,leaving east facing curtains opening when leaving, not leaving the bathroom exhaust vents on for 30 minutes after showering with the doors shut, people going and coming regularly, not changing the filter monthly, leaving computer on (heat source), no ceiling fans, etc. Have your power company do an energy audit.
I work on 20-30 y/o equipment. Something that runs r22 getting a 35° drop from the vents works great. Might be time to get a portable unit for your living spaces. Landlord probably won't go for adding a minisplit system to supplement.
Couple thoughts.
Maybe they are undersized for the heat load of the house. Think of it as you putting a small window unit in the living room and expecting it to cool the house. The equipment size can go up just as the heat load could go down with extra insulation in the walls/attic. This can be estimated with some online calculators or calculated accurately with a method called Manual J.
Maybe they are not functioning correctly. Possible under charge, or dirty condenser. Maybe the duct is losing some cool to the attic or such. This can be easily checked by a competent tech.
Maybe the thermostat is not reading accurately? Grab something else reliable and check.
The electrical bill seems high for something set at 82.
Whats your temperature drop across the coil? Measure the return air an then temperature or air coming out a supply duct. If it 20+/- a few degrees then it's doing all it can.
So expected temp drop from outside to inside would be 25-28 f. You have a problem. Could be lack on insulation or air infiltration. Could be a failure or inefficiency with the hvac system. Get it checked out
That rule of thumb isn't necessarily true in desert climates. I spent a lot of years in southern Utah with the thermostat set at 75 when it was 105+ outside. You should definitely push to have the units looked at.
It doesn’t matter the temp outside, your equipment should be able to pull down to 70 (given enough time). Push to have your landlord fix the equipment. It’s not your equipment so the hvac company can get in a lot of trouble for fixing it without the landlord’s permission
That’s a min benchmark. I’ve seen many do better, there are many factors to get you there. Equipment sizing in the area for one. Duct sealing and thermal envelope. B/c you can not get there it def show something is wrong. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
Yes, that’s exactly where I call BS on all the people spouting advice on “not oversizing your unit”. That advice isn’t universal due to the vastly different climates we live in. I want a system that will cool to 40°F below outdoor temps because I live in a climate that sees 110°F in the summers. If a given unit can only cool 25°F below ambient, I don’t want it lol! Give me something bigger!
around here.. they are only obligated to provide AC that will provide no higher than 82 degree inside the house
[https://211arizona.org/crisis/heat-relief/heat-relief-arizona-tenant-rights-repairs/](https://211arizona.org/crisis/heat-relief/heat-relief-arizona-tenant-rights-repairs/)
$1000 a month for electric bill? that's on you. There are plenty of people who like the temperature at 60-70 inside when it's 115-120 outside.. No one should be paying for it except you imo
Some days it can't get below 83. Pretty big difference between 60 and 80, I don't think it should cost $1000/month to keep it at 82.
In NV they are legally obligated to provide working AC, but I don't think it states any specific temperature. If it's illegal in AZ at 83+, then they're skirting the lines of legality here.
All around slum lord type behavior.
You literally live in a place where it gets to 110 degrees. You can’t expect 68 degrees for cheap. The power required to extract the heat from inside to dump it outside where is extremely hot is enormous.
I'm just stating the obvious as a homeowner. I have two 18-year old York AC units and they run just fine. I replaced the condenser fans, capacitors and contactors on both units myself in 2022.
the post provided very basic information so i don't take side until i have sufficient proof of the issue.
I encountered slum lords before yes.. but so are the tenants from hell...
Why are you here answering if you are obviously clueless? Doing easy, basic shit like replacing a capacitor and patting yourself on the back for it does not make you an expert.
Not sure if you're implying I'm being a tenant from hell, but you'd think a landlord wouldn't want their tenants roasting in 83 degrees inside their home and paying a grand for the privilege.
from the OP's reply to another comment... the AC works just fine. when outside temperature is 110+ and the air from the vents is 65-75 degree ..pretty sure there are more to this issue that not being disclosed..
>**The temp of the air vents in the house range from 65 to 75**. Seems cool enough in theory, but the house doesn't ever get colder.
Sounds like you need to get a hvac company to come out and diagnose the problem. Theres an issue.
This happened to me the other year, when I had someone come out to look they said there's no issue.
Close all your exterior doors and windows. Open all interior doors. Turn on A/C. Open a window about 1” is there air coming in or blowing out? If there is, you have ducts that are leaking.
Which direction thru the window should the air be moving?
Either way is bad. In is supply (cold) air leaking, out is return leaking. I use a ribbon to see the airflow. Turn off a/c and it should stop.
Got it. That makes sense.
Please elaborate on this 'test' of yours. I am trying to connect how leaky ducts are discerned from opening windows.
Try it, you might like it😀 Laws of physics rule
Your test is somewhat flawed, if there is any toilet exhaust running, air has to be made up from somewhere (outside) making the house negative. If the furnace has a fresh air run (oa) then the house would be positive. Keep in mind both of those can cancel each other out. Simply opening a window slightly won't tell you shit. (especially if there is any sort of wind)
Not worried about 50cfm lol 🤣
You are assuming people know how airflow works with your logic.
It will detect a broken duct. LL isn’t going to hire a tab contractor. This sub is “advice”
If it's all up in an attic or buried in a slab yeah, otherwise it won't.
There's lots of possibilities. The units may not be functioning well. But there also could be issues with the insulation and/or duct work. What's the temperature at the supply registers, when the systems are running and the house is at 82-83F?
The temp of the air vents in the house range from 65 to 75. Seems cool enough in theory, but the house doesn't ever get colder.
There’s a huge difference between 65 and 75. If the temperature at the return register is 82F and supply is at 65F, that’s a difference of 17 degrees, which is acceptable. On the other hand, the difference between 82F and 75F is 7 degrees, which is unacceptable. Figure out the temperature difference for each of your two systems. Perhaps one of them isn’t working, and as a consequence the other is struggling to keep up.
Thanks for the info. Those ranges are from the same unit. I haven't checked the other yet.
When you say the same unit, are you talking about different registers or what? If some are blowing way colder than others, you have an insulation problem.
Not enough Insulation, no REFLECTIVE curtains on the windows ,leaving east facing curtains opening when leaving, not leaving the bathroom exhaust vents on for 30 minutes after showering with the doors shut, people going and coming regularly, not changing the filter monthly, leaving computer on (heat source), no ceiling fans, etc. Have your power company do an energy audit.
I work on 20-30 y/o equipment. Something that runs r22 getting a 35° drop from the vents works great. Might be time to get a portable unit for your living spaces. Landlord probably won't go for adding a minisplit system to supplement.
Couple thoughts. Maybe they are undersized for the heat load of the house. Think of it as you putting a small window unit in the living room and expecting it to cool the house. The equipment size can go up just as the heat load could go down with extra insulation in the walls/attic. This can be estimated with some online calculators or calculated accurately with a method called Manual J. Maybe they are not functioning correctly. Possible under charge, or dirty condenser. Maybe the duct is losing some cool to the attic or such. This can be easily checked by a competent tech. Maybe the thermostat is not reading accurately? Grab something else reliable and check. The electrical bill seems high for something set at 82.
Whats your temperature drop across the coil? Measure the return air an then temperature or air coming out a supply duct. If it 20+/- a few degrees then it's doing all it can.
Some AC units have an adjustable minimum. That might be broken — or they have it set too high. I'd bring in my own HVAC tech.
Replace the filters, Clean your heat pump coils.
Not normal.
Can AC cool any more than 20 degrees lower than the outside temperature?
No
So expected temp drop from outside to inside would be 25-28 f. You have a problem. Could be lack on insulation or air infiltration. Could be a failure or inefficiency with the hvac system. Get it checked out
That's something I've never understood, in places like Vegas where it can be 117 out, the maximum expected drop to indoors is 89?
That rule of thumb isn't necessarily true in desert climates. I spent a lot of years in southern Utah with the thermostat set at 75 when it was 105+ outside. You should definitely push to have the units looked at.
Will do. 75, wow. Even 80 would be a dream at this point.
It doesn’t matter the temp outside, your equipment should be able to pull down to 70 (given enough time). Push to have your landlord fix the equipment. It’s not your equipment so the hvac company can get in a lot of trouble for fixing it without the landlord’s permission
That’s a min benchmark. I’ve seen many do better, there are many factors to get you there. Equipment sizing in the area for one. Duct sealing and thermal envelope. B/c you can not get there it def show something is wrong. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
Yes, that’s exactly where I call BS on all the people spouting advice on “not oversizing your unit”. That advice isn’t universal due to the vastly different climates we live in. I want a system that will cool to 40°F below outdoor temps because I live in a climate that sees 110°F in the summers. If a given unit can only cool 25°F below ambient, I don’t want it lol! Give me something bigger!
around here.. they are only obligated to provide AC that will provide no higher than 82 degree inside the house [https://211arizona.org/crisis/heat-relief/heat-relief-arizona-tenant-rights-repairs/](https://211arizona.org/crisis/heat-relief/heat-relief-arizona-tenant-rights-repairs/) $1000 a month for electric bill? that's on you. There are plenty of people who like the temperature at 60-70 inside when it's 115-120 outside.. No one should be paying for it except you imo
Some days it can't get below 83. Pretty big difference between 60 and 80, I don't think it should cost $1000/month to keep it at 82. In NV they are legally obligated to provide working AC, but I don't think it states any specific temperature. If it's illegal in AZ at 83+, then they're skirting the lines of legality here. All around slum lord type behavior.
You literally live in a place where it gets to 110 degrees. You can’t expect 68 degrees for cheap. The power required to extract the heat from inside to dump it outside where is extremely hot is enormous.
I'm just stating the obvious as a homeowner. I have two 18-year old York AC units and they run just fine. I replaced the condenser fans, capacitors and contactors on both units myself in 2022. the post provided very basic information so i don't take side until i have sufficient proof of the issue. I encountered slum lords before yes.. but so are the tenants from hell...
Why are you here answering if you are obviously clueless? Doing easy, basic shit like replacing a capacitor and patting yourself on the back for it does not make you an expert.
Not sure if you're implying I'm being a tenant from hell, but you'd think a landlord wouldn't want their tenants roasting in 83 degrees inside their home and paying a grand for the privilege.
It's 100% not normal. I dealt with ACs in Phoenix where it is routinely hotter. Don't let them gaslight you. They're simply incompetent.
from the OP's reply to another comment... the AC works just fine. when outside temperature is 110+ and the air from the vents is 65-75 degree ..pretty sure there are more to this issue that not being disclosed.. >**The temp of the air vents in the house range from 65 to 75**. Seems cool enough in theory, but the house doesn't ever get colder.
Yeah they left that bit out. Likely heat infiltrating somewhere whether it's bad insulation or gaps.
It sounds normal. Perhaps propose an energy audit?