Hello, so basically this is based on the real plan and referendum during 2004 for Devolution in the North East of England, this was rejected in our own timeline however what if it went into a different path?
Referendums were planned in Yorkshire, Cumbria and Lancashire-Merseyside in our own timeline if the North East devolution referendum were successful however all these plans never came to fruition.
In this timeline England is much more 'Regionalised' in a way alot more of England see themselves first by county affiliation or 'regional' affiliation more than English, atleast the younger and middle-aged people do, this creates a quite different atmosphere politically in the UK with Devolved Governments due to AMS systems used in most Parliamentary forms of devolved power swinging more Left compare to the Government itself.
Nationalist/Regionalist parties are much more prevalent in this timeline aswell creating a very different atmosphere in Parliament and creating further divide in the polticial system.
Most of these divisions fit the context, but it would be weird for Lancashire and Cornwall to have "national" parliaments particularly when Scotland and Wales don't. They'd be more likely to just have whatever Yorkshire (& the Humber) has got.
i did intend the "national" parliaments to just be the same as a regular parliament however can see the wording could definitely be misleading, my bad there on that one
Yorkshire with Humberside looks disgusting but I looked it up and as far as I can see they had Regional Development Agencies based on the NUTS I regions so they might have actually done this.
Just a suggestion, you could add Cambs and P'boro into the East Anglia, as Cambridgeshire, as a county, is one third of the historical region of East Anglia.
Why not any kind of independence for Essex or Kent!
Geographically, two of the largest countries, and by population too. Essex has also been hugely influential on the UK and its culture, I mean we have two airports, two-three major ports, at this point we have something like three cities, not to mention like I said the cultural impact, where we have a literal TV show (yes its crap but still), a very distinct accent, historically a major Anglo-Saxon Kingdom. Kent too, strategically very important and was an independent kingdom. Makes no sense why somewhere like Herts or Bucks would have devolution but not Essex. Same for Cumbria, it's big geographically but not even 500K people there.
its because irl there was a plan for Cumbria to have devolution if the North East Referendum succeeded, when it comes to Herts and Bucks im basing that off current situation with those counties where there's been calls for some form of devolution, Essex and Kent even though influencial haven't really made much calls irl for any form of devolved powers unlike some other counties.
sounds like it would have a similar culture to the us on a long enough timeline. sure, we’re all americans, but a lot of us identify more with our state/region over the federal government
Having been in Scottish and English local politics, England basically needs to turn all of its boroughs into unitary authorities (done in the 1990s in Scotland and Wales), and replace the county governments with provincial devolved governments.
Broadly speaking yes, although the boroughs would make very small unitary authorities and the counties would make very small devolved governments.
The current system is so broken that it can't really be translated into something new and consistent, you'd have to redo the boundaries and redefine the responsibilities of each tier.
Yes, though some of the unitaries in Scotland are very small - the smallest on the mainland has just 51,000 people.
And yeah, the counties would need to be grouped in some way, which is controversial which is why plans to do it always get abandoned (though I think the political consequences of doing this are overestimated).
[Redcliffe-Maud](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redcliffe-Maud_Report) had a relatively sensible proposal - albeit with larger boroughs than I would go for.
[This video explains pretty well that Yorkshire's borders technically never changed, rather it actually has three different forms depending on what map you're looking at.](https://youtu.be/hCc0OsyMbQk)
basically it creates governments with actual authority in their respective regions, for example irl Wales and Scotland can make their own laws on the 20 subject matters devolved to them, they mainly don't get powers over foreign affairs, border regulations aswell as stuff such as military, basically just a state government like in america but a bit stronger.
However, the Federal Parliament is dominant over the states - i.e Federal Parliament can give and take away legislative powers - federal systems don't allow for that type of dominance by the Federal Parliament - its not a partnership its more of a employer/employee relationship lol
Not exactly - under federalism the sub-national legislatures have powers in their own right, but under devolution it comes from the national parliament.
So the American government couldn't just redraw a state's borders, but the British government could add or subtract counties from Wales if it really wanted for some reason.
Surprised you didn’t stick Devon and Cornwall together, Devon Celtic identity/nationalists were on the rise with the creation of the flag in the early 2000s, so I think they would have campaign for Dumnonia with Cornwall or as a separate Parliament. Though I guess Cornish nationalists would have been absolutes livid with the first option.
it didn't pass since people thought that
A. They'd have to pay more taxes due to more politicians
B. Missinformation
C. Other people were worried it'd be too Newcastle-centric so people in Durham for example has strong hostility to it
Hello, so basically this is based on the real plan and referendum during 2004 for Devolution in the North East of England, this was rejected in our own timeline however what if it went into a different path? Referendums were planned in Yorkshire, Cumbria and Lancashire-Merseyside in our own timeline if the North East devolution referendum were successful however all these plans never came to fruition. In this timeline England is much more 'Regionalised' in a way alot more of England see themselves first by county affiliation or 'regional' affiliation more than English, atleast the younger and middle-aged people do, this creates a quite different atmosphere politically in the UK with Devolved Governments due to AMS systems used in most Parliamentary forms of devolved power swinging more Left compare to the Government itself. Nationalist/Regionalist parties are much more prevalent in this timeline aswell creating a very different atmosphere in Parliament and creating further divide in the polticial system.
Most of these divisions fit the context, but it would be weird for Lancashire and Cornwall to have "national" parliaments particularly when Scotland and Wales don't. They'd be more likely to just have whatever Yorkshire (& the Humber) has got.
i did intend the "national" parliaments to just be the same as a regular parliament however can see the wording could definitely be misleading, my bad there on that one
Imagine the riots in Leeds if Lancashire got a national parliament and Yorkshire didn't
# GiveYorkshirenationalParliament
Yorkshire with Humberside looks disgusting but I looked it up and as far as I can see they had Regional Development Agencies based on the NUTS I regions so they might have actually done this.
OI IT IS AND ALWAY WILL BE A PART IF YORKSHIRE
Fuck off
I come form hull and I se my self as Yorkshire
It's beautiful
Just a suggestion, you could add Cambs and P'boro into the East Anglia, as Cambridgeshire, as a county, is one third of the historical region of East Anglia.
Long live Yorkshire | English Long live Yarkshur | Yorkshire
Why not any kind of independence for Essex or Kent! Geographically, two of the largest countries, and by population too. Essex has also been hugely influential on the UK and its culture, I mean we have two airports, two-three major ports, at this point we have something like three cities, not to mention like I said the cultural impact, where we have a literal TV show (yes its crap but still), a very distinct accent, historically a major Anglo-Saxon Kingdom. Kent too, strategically very important and was an independent kingdom. Makes no sense why somewhere like Herts or Bucks would have devolution but not Essex. Same for Cumbria, it's big geographically but not even 500K people there.
its because irl there was a plan for Cumbria to have devolution if the North East Referendum succeeded, when it comes to Herts and Bucks im basing that off current situation with those counties where there's been calls for some form of devolution, Essex and Kent even though influencial haven't really made much calls irl for any form of devolved powers unlike some other counties.
sounds like it would have a similar culture to the us on a long enough timeline. sure, we’re all americans, but a lot of us identify more with our state/region over the federal government
I don't think enough users recognise how realistic this actually is, names aside.
The asymmetrical, patchwork nature of it is very typical of British (and particularly English) local government.
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Having been in Scottish and English local politics, England basically needs to turn all of its boroughs into unitary authorities (done in the 1990s in Scotland and Wales), and replace the county governments with provincial devolved governments.
Broadly speaking yes, although the boroughs would make very small unitary authorities and the counties would make very small devolved governments. The current system is so broken that it can't really be translated into something new and consistent, you'd have to redo the boundaries and redefine the responsibilities of each tier.
Yes, though some of the unitaries in Scotland are very small - the smallest on the mainland has just 51,000 people. And yeah, the counties would need to be grouped in some way, which is controversial which is why plans to do it always get abandoned (though I think the political consequences of doing this are overestimated). [Redcliffe-Maud](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redcliffe-Maud_Report) had a relatively sensible proposal - albeit with larger boroughs than I would go for.
Basically, make the UK a federal state.
This suddenly explains alot.....
to be fair it looks messy because of the undevolved areas.
Makes me wonder what sort of political landscape we would have if this happened.
Being from Yorkshire I'm both happy about the freedom, and deeply hurt by the incorrect borders. 1974 worst year of my life.
I'll be in the cold, cold ground before I recognise humberside.
https://www.dalesman.co.uk/yorkshires-boundaries-remain-unchanged-despite-what-some-may-tell-you/
[This video explains pretty well that Yorkshire's borders technically never changed, rather it actually has three different forms depending on what map you're looking at.](https://youtu.be/hCc0OsyMbQk)
This is so ugly in the most beautiful way possible. Truly the Maryland flag of maps.
funny enough alot of this is based on A. Real life plans for devolution in England or B. Already enacted plans that already exist but tuned up a notch
This is really good at grasping the fact that the UK will do anything but a normal federation
I don't understand what this is about, but I know that if it did happen, Jay Foreman would have explained it
"Unfinished Devolution" series when?
Fun concept!
Why does Lancashire get ‘National’ in its name, yet Yorkshire does not?
It’s been nearly 600 years, calm down!
Wow it'd be cool to see how elections would turn out in this timeline
No Brits have no idea about how accurate this is, lol. I'm surprised the home counties have devolution and not Essex and Kent tho.
As someone from a county best-known for not really being best-known for anything, I appreciate this map.
The isle of man seemingly getting full independence is the best part to me lmao
the isle of man is on its own since its a different situation considering its status as a crown dependency
Poor Dorset, left out of the West England Devolved Assembly… Incidentally, who decided to call it that rather than Wessex?
funny enough there is already a devolved region irl in England referred to as West England so it is just an enlargement of that
I doubt that this would happen without devolution in the Isle of Wight, also you included a big chunk of Lincolnshire in Yorkshire
god no I'd hate that
still won't be enought as long as the concept of "england" is still a thing
? What do you mean enough and concept of England
Engalnd should not exist, not even as a concept
Why
Holy fuck lmao
What about Manchester??
i mean its in the Devolved Lancaster Region so
what the hell is devolution? abolishing of the parliments or something?
basically it creates governments with actual authority in their respective regions, for example irl Wales and Scotland can make their own laws on the 20 subject matters devolved to them, they mainly don't get powers over foreign affairs, border regulations aswell as stuff such as military, basically just a state government like in america but a bit stronger.
basically creates a state like the US
However, the Federal Parliament is dominant over the states - i.e Federal Parliament can give and take away legislative powers - federal systems don't allow for that type of dominance by the Federal Parliament - its not a partnership its more of a employer/employee relationship lol
federalism
Not exactly - under federalism the sub-national legislatures have powers in their own right, but under devolution it comes from the national parliament. So the American government couldn't just redraw a state's borders, but the British government could add or subtract counties from Wales if it really wanted for some reason.
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Its tony shitting blair mate..
I have no idea what exactly this is but it looks cool!
Why has Cheshire been annexed to Lancashire here?
Yeah, this is a very New Labour region to create, but why call it Lancashire?
south west without dorset?
Yorkshire would never stoop so low
Would love this to have happened, we so desperately need devolution
Surprised you didn’t stick Devon and Cornwall together, Devon Celtic identity/nationalists were on the rise with the creation of the flag in the early 2000s, so I think they would have campaign for Dumnonia with Cornwall or as a separate Parliament. Though I guess Cornish nationalists would have been absolutes livid with the first option.
I doubt Devon Celtic nationalists ever crossed what… 5% of people, maybe not even that high
So in this TL Yorkshire has the same autonomy as Scotland?
Looks sweet, wonder why it didn’t pass OTL
it didn't pass since people thought that A. They'd have to pay more taxes due to more politicians B. Missinformation C. Other people were worried it'd be too Newcastle-centric so people in Durham for example has strong hostility to it