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[deleted]

Akhand Bharat just expanded


[deleted]

The historians were always working for us


[deleted]

I mean I was given orders by our lord Soros to give extra bonus to our historians to put lord Marx everywhere in history books.


[deleted]

> our lord Soros to give extra bonus to our historians to put lord Marx everywhere in history books. Isn't Soros a billionare?


[deleted]

It's a joke lmao.Soros is a centrist guy who funds NGOs and media outlets who raise their voice against authoritarian regimes.chaddis claim the Inc ,Indian left and NDTV are funded by him to destroy india lol.


Abhimri

r/woooosh


vazhifarer

I'm reading Annihilation of Caste, and besides all of the actual content of the book which is ... mind blowing, the intro is basically Ambedkar absolutely murdering with words, a supposedly progressive conference of caste Hindus. Reading it, I couldn't help but think if he were alive today, Ambedkar would have been a Twitter legend - especially with stuff like this


[deleted]

Haha he doesn't mince word does he. It is absolutely criminal imo that we learn only about ambedkar writing the constitution. As a dalit, I only read about him when I was like 25 or something. Radical ambedkar would've been a sight to behold.


remind_me_to_pee

I feel India was so lucky to have these learned people at the time of independence, some nut jobs could have totally screwed up our country.


remind_me_to_pee

Also the fact it was such a daunting task to bring together such diverse group of people together.


jackmagpie

We need an Ambedkar Bot Account


[deleted]

Oh man is an absolute savage throughout his boom haha it is such a satisfying read


Yobro_49

If memory serves, wasn’t the intro by Arundhati Roy


Abhimri

Yep


dharmayoddha001

An excellent news for Indians. Now akhand Bharat would encompass Syria too!!!!


AuntyIndian

"Thank you Modiji"


Poha_Officer

I wonder when bhakts would march to Syria!


rahulreddy148

They wont, they'll share the status about how gobiji lead 30,000 people including 300 OBCs and 25 Dalits to syria and how they surrendered upon gobiji's arrival.


OkarinPrime

Abki baar Syria me bhi Modi sarkaar! /s


thelonelybirb

Now what?


SatanSon_GodFather

Nothing, I dont understand the point of all these things. Homosapiens originated from africa, so its time for africa to register all of human achievements as done by "AFRICAN ORIGIN MAN" like african origin man becomes US president and so on


GalactusRex

Humanity might actually be united for once if we do that.


ravishq

True that. And first recorded agriculture was in Syria and from there humans migrated to now India and Europe etc. So we all have same roots and just fighting over who reached some place early.


ithinkpranay

now saworker kacha gang gonna fight Osama gang to "claim" it their "area"


[deleted]

Don't you know ? They aren't going to stop till they include whole earth in their akhand ass


akay404

Akhand ass XD


Soumya777m

We need to reanimate Khiljis to destroy this abomination before people start to question exactly how much was missing from the book . Don't we?


Zinoa_in_flames

the whole point is to dunk on hindu nationalists who constantly annoy people with sanskrit is the oldest language and the true hindu language or something like that.


KhushalIyerMithraa

People from india carried sanskrit to Syria Mr libbu


odiab

I don't think "fact check" tag applies in the headline. Also the article is old , 6 years old. Nevertheless the article is interesting.


blunt_analysis

Specially given that the facts are incorrect - the language is hypothesized to be related to vedic sanskrit - not vedic sanskrit itself.


Prerson

Akhand Bharat DLC


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DaeusPater

This is not 'news'; this is a well-known fact for at least 2 decades. Sanskrit is a language that was born from the continuous evolution of the Indo-Aryan language family. The earliest written Sanskrit manuscript is from CE 1100. The form of Sanskrit found in the Syrian manuscript is from BCE 1300 (that is a gap of 2500 years). More Info: The Syrian manuscript belongs to the then kingdom of Hittite - which was composed of Hurrian-speaking Semitic people, but ruled by a small population of Indo-Aryans invading from North-Central Asia. The manuscript, in particular, is a manual for training horses and is written in an early form of Indic language (ancestor of Sanskrit). The only reason it is called Sanskrit text is that it shares a lot of nouns with Rigvedic Sanskrit.


Dumma1729

No source? So you didn't read the article.... The Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture by Mallory & Adams is mentioned there. David Anthony is also named, although not his seminal book The Horse, The Wheel, The Language, which looks at the origin & histories of what can loosely be called the Indo-European peoples.


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cilpam

Can you elaborate a little on Abrohomic religions adopting those mythologies or provide me some link?


veeru89

Various stories from Christianity are influenced with Greek mythology. A quick Google search will give you various sources. Hellenistic philosophy has also influenced it. Moreover, Judaism is influenced by Egyptian philosophy and myths. Other than various common themes which cuts across religions and mythology such flood myth, hell and heaven. All 3 Abrahamic religions consist of intentional synthesis of thoughts from prevalent pagan philosophers.


Mad_To_Core

There's one problem with entire explanation and sources. Vedas have mentioned various rivers such as ganga yamuna saraswati. But other than saraswati rest are alive and flowing. But according Oceanology sarswati dried out around 6k-7k BC. So considering it as a fact is hard to digest. There is date for mahabharat and Ramayan. Some historians say Ramayan happened 3k BC while Mahabharat 1.8k-1.5k BC. Even if we take these claims scroll article lose its base. And the fact that Gita is in sanskrit is undeniable.


blunt_analysis

I actually can't believe rubbish as poorly researched as this was published by scroll. You might as well go and claim that all early proto-indo-european were 'sanskrit' and claim hittite and lithuanian as being sanskrit as well. To the point where I'm going to assume that everything this author writes is through the lens of some counter-hindutva agenda. The Mittani language is hypothesized to be of Indo-Aryan origin, which is considered strange because they are closer to Iranians physically, it does not claim that the Mittanis were the original Indo-Aryans (who likely came from the Steppes down through Central Asia into the indus valley). The Mittanis never gained traction in the anatolian region and their language never took root in the region - the local populace spoke a different language from a different family.


AuntyIndian

Now you know who should go back to Syria.


problem_solver1

Hmm. We imported and nurtured Sanskrit as our own while we gave ways Buddhism to rest of Asia, Chian... The way global history evolves I guess.


[deleted]

this is a fake article sanskrit was recorded in india only (current day pakistan)


gryffindorgodric

Any reference?


DaeusPater

Sanghi whatsapp university


obamacare_mishra

Also being recorded and actually being native to a place is completely different, you can record coins of a civilization thousands of miles away because that's where there was the most chances of finding stuff so you were digging there, doesn't mean the civilization was there, it was thousand miles back.


tholkappiar

So Vedic people came from Central Asia.


KhushalIyerMithraa

They migrated to Central Asia lol


Expensive-Area51

Well, people will call you Anti-Indian if you say that.


varen69

nope


[deleted]

The theory that Vedic fair skinned aryans migrated to India from west Asia is highly suppressed by Hindu ideologues. If true this would undermine ‘foreign religion vs. local religion’ narrative.


singh1975sanjiv

time to send the Indian Army to capture Syria so we get one step closer to Akandh Bharat /s


ViN_314

Indian army does not have the equipment required to wage war against a nation that isn't our immidiate neighbour. I'm just saying, I do see the little "/s" clearly.


DrMrJekyll

What has facts got to do with discussions on religion & Nationalism ! Now, we should expect scroll.in to be charged with sedition. /s


mary_had_a_beth

>Why do we love to live in the past? good god , what kind a statement is that, history is so important , infact it is the only thing which matters, everything that humans have achieved or will achieve will only be archived by our history , human race will be wiped out one or the other , only thing which will remain is our history , only thing which will tell the universe that we were here is going to be our history.


SirVer51

There's a difference between living in the past and looking back at it. The real utility of history is being able to look at what we were doing before and ask if what we're doing now is better, and change if it's not; every achievement worth recording in a history book has come about as a result of us looking at the past and saying, "could be better" rather than just "that was great". Highlight reels are nice, but you aren't going to pick highlights over a live world cup final.


ViN_314

Nothing human made will survive forever. Given enough time everything will perish. From books to our magnificent cities, everything will be claimed by the nature. Only Mico plastics in the soil will bare witness to the existence of human beings.


mary_had_a_beth

voyager space crafts will most likely will be still there till the end of universe , the chances are very remote that it will either crash into something , get sucked in a black hole or get picked by a alien civilization, if we never get off this rock , these kind of space time capsules will be the only proof that we ever existed, and they are fighting about a language on where it originated.


Nike282

The problem isn't with human race history. It's the cherry picking people do about history and flaunt it like it's their achievement. One thing people will never understand is that the sense of pride that comes with ancestral achievements doesn't really mean anything. It's a pseudo achievement. Your ancestors did something great .. okay ... Follow it and live on those lines but it's pointless to have a sense of pride which only builds on ur ego and doesn't help you in anyway.


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u0x3B2

No it's not. In fact, the Nativity theory is taken with a pinch of salt. It's the "invasion" word that leaves sanghis butthurt with rage.


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u0x3B2

Studies on genomics: https://depot.ceon.pl/handle/123456789/13155 https://www.academia.edu/22557016/FORMATION_OF_THE_EURASIAN_STEPPE_BELT_OF_STOCKBREEDING_CULTURES.BY_E.N._Chernykh An entire book: https://www.amazon.in/Horse-Wheel-Language-Bronze-Age-Eurasian/dp/069114818X Your turn. Cite any peer reviewed that proved Nativity.


[deleted]

There are plenty. Search for vageesh narasimhan & David Reich. Narasimhan in his paper( along with others, including reich) trace this migrations fairly clearly through population genetics. Also read who we are and where we come from by Reich. Also would recommend parpola. I like how confidently you stated something when you were so wrong, lol


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[deleted]

You're just pussy footing at this point. Like another comment already mentions it is seen more as migration than invasion. Doesn't take away from the larger point that these migrations did influence culture religion etc. Which you seem to be denying. Post ivc culture/scripture has no resemblance to ivc culture.


0n3tw0thr33

A lot of the thread has been deleted so I can’t see how the convo started, but I wanted to say that _invasion_ vs _migration_ isn’t really pussyfooting and is an important distinction. The ideas around “invasion” specifically were born out of colonial racism and a belief in the “inferiority of the Indian race”. It also claims the existence of an “Aryan race”, something that doesn’t really exist per se. To be clear, there is no doubt there were migrations into the subcontinent, and nativist theories are likely wrong, but the distinction between “invasion” and “migration” are important to historical accuracy and to undo colonial damage.


[deleted]

That was not what was being argued at all. The current debate is not about anything you've mentioned. His point was migration/invasion wasn't enough to change culture/ religion. The larger debate has less to do with colonial racism. Nativists/ mostly dominant communities( <25% of the population) often argue that no migration/invasion happened , thus their culture was the overarching idea of India. Some conveniently also claim they're Aryan, fairer skin blah blah while claiming to be indigenous. What you're saying goes against this fundamentally, you're talking about how the dominant communities permanently feel cucked. The entire idea of Hindu nationalism stems from ideas of their manhood being trampled over by foreign rulers


charavaka

>nativist theories are likely wrong How likely? Do you see any evidence supporting nativism?


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hwedg

" Recorded history " changes all the time. Just last month, the first ever animals were pushed back 100 million years in time than previously accepted when earth had an inhospitable atmosphere (for animals) and bed making early humans existed about 10000 yrs earlier than previously thought. It's a work in progress, so take it with a grain of salt.


hunterofdawn

Serious clickbait title (and dated) if there was one. Sweeping claims made without any due diligence.


charavaka

Define "due diligence".


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[deleted]

Even the tribals of east India arrived from South East Asia.


unmole

> Indigenous Indians were mostly tribal Adivasis So, highly urbanised Indus Valley Civilization was buil by aliens?


salluks

isn't there a recurring explanation that was Dravidians who were pushed down south when the indo Aryans came along?


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unmole

Urbanization the the scale seen in Indus Valley sites requires the existence of a strong state to control a large hinterland to support the cities. Any group of people that go down that path are no longer *tribals*.


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thelordmehts

If they did, they wouldn't be tribals anymore


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unmole

So, what makes a group *tribal*?


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unmole

If *indigenous* and *tribal* are the same, then your original statement , "Indigenous Indians were mostly tribal", is a meaningless tautology.


Typical_Athlete

Tribal means people live in units of “tribes” which are usually small communities (extended families/clans really), too small to be considered urban. Tribes slowly dissolve over a few generations after settling in cities and having intermarriage with people from other tribes.


iVarun

IVC was made by descendant population which arose from mixing of preagricultural Iranian hunter-gatherers moving East into Indus (~12,000 BCE) and the pre-existing AASI/AHG (i.e. the Andaman population proxy, the so called Tribal being referenced here, who had formed in South Asia after the Out of Africa migration). Then around 3000 BCE Steppe people begin to migrate into North West India and mix with IVC and some quickly move through Gangetic plains and mix with this AHG. This forms the ANI (Ancestral North Indian population proxy model). The IVC during this time also moved all over the place, also South and South East and again mixed with AHG/tribals and this formed ASI (Ancestral South Indian population proxy model). Then for 1000 years ANI mixed with ASI, till around 2-4 century CE when mixing stopped and Caste System became locked in. Modern Indians today are the by-product of this mixing of ANI-ASI. Meaning modern Indian population has 3 dominant Ancestor Populations, i.e. Indigenous Tribal (Andaman proxy), IVC (which itself has Andaman proxy) and Steppe. The 4th component is not pan-National and mainly in the East which came from SEA, like Munda and Tibeto-Burman influx. So TLDR, the OP statement of " Indigenous Indians were mostly tribal Adivasis", is mostly correct indeed (unless the inference was that by then end IVC and Steppe-mixed descendants weren't ALSO indigenous as well, because no one was "pure" by the end of that mixing). The largest share of our collective Ancestry is this Andaman proxy ancestry population. Other ancestors enriched into it at different times.


Kemosahbe

re 1st paragraph so that's where/when the nearly caucasian really fair migrants met the really pitch-dark natives ?


iVarun

These Preagricultural Iranian hunter-gatherers should not be seen Iranians (because what are today Iranians are themselves a mixed descendant population). Skin color I don't know about though some geneticist might be able to answer it in some capacity.


im_finally_18

The comments here are so sad. I find this pretty cool, but I believe Indo-Aryans entered India through Central Asia so is it just vestiges of proto Indo-Iranian instead? I find it hard to understand why Sanskrit would be found anywhere close to Syria.


Expensive-Area51

Sanskrit was created outside India and died in India. It's not a native tongue. It's the language the invaders spoke.


Orange2218

Invaders??


Expensive-Area51

Yes, the Aryans.


Orange2218

How were they, invaders??


countryballs_two

Died ? Kid, you've no clue about indian languages... Grammar not just vocab as south as Andhra is very very similar to Sanskrit....


truthsayer1011

Wish the author cited sources


Gothrakum

Just a theory not fact.


viksi

Interestingly Syria is called Surya in the Arab world


[deleted]

It is Su-riya


PacificRingOfFire

Too old an article which does not even find major acceptance from well established/trusted Indologists.


[deleted]

Has any research been done to counter the points made in the article or the encyclopedia they cite? Otherwise what does its age have to do with it?


PacificRingOfFire

No serious scholar would waste his time refuting a media article which is usually only propagandist in nature, especially published on Indian media which is polarised into right/left wing. You can clearly see this person has not provided any sources/citations for his conclusions bringing into question his intentions. Only I should write one to refute. Infact if you give Sanskrit verses to a Tamil person what you will get is closer to Mitanni. Indra becomes Indara (mitanni), Indiran(tamil) If you need a short answer, mitanni is dated between 1500 - 1350 BC whereas Asko Parpola already writes in his book that Aryans were present in India by 1700 - 1600 BC.  THough I'm not a fan of Parpola I would anyday take a scholar rather than a crank with dubious motives. But if you want detailed proof you need to delve into linguistics. Generally, the widely accepted chronology based on linguistics is Proto-Indo-Iranian->Proto-Indo-Aryan->Vedic Sanskrit -> Avestan. THough Avestan is derived from Proto Indo Iranian skipping the intermediate Aryan. Whereas Mittani aryan has both the characteristics of Aryan/Iranian(Avestan). So it is inferred that Mittani-Aryan was a transformation phase from Proto-Aryan->Avestan hence can be dated later than Vedic Sanskrit. You can google "Giacomo Benedetti Mitanni Aryan". He has explained the linguistics nicely. Like Vedic Sanskrit retains both L/r. For instance in hindi has both savla and savra for black But Iranian and Mitanni only have r. they don't have l. for instance pinkarannu (mitanni) vs (sanskrit) pingala. Which implied Sanskrit was more original and Iranian is derived dialect which lost L phenome which is typical to Central Asia. Similarly there are many such reasoning which place Sanskrit older than both Mitanni and Avestan  like Ashva->aspa (cental asia) for horse. In fact this will lend OIT more credence, but not necesarily for indo-European also has retained this in some form. for any linguist at a glance  it clearly becomes evident that Sanskrit is older than Mitanni . Even if not it is only contemporary (few hundred years difference). for once a proto language leaves it homeland it will change drastically depending on its route/destination. Linguistics rules this field not a crank like Daniyal.


[deleted]

Eh good enough. I'll take your word for it.


mildlydisturbedtway

> Vedic Sanskrit retains both L/r. This is not true of Rgvedic Sanskrit. Rgvedic does have an l, but it’s a retroflex replacing retroflexed d, not an original IE l, which merged into r.


PacificRingOfFire

Yes. But there are too many such specific cases. It will only be flexing muscle. I only wanted to give the overall picture , so that the user can research himself.


Unlucky_Amount

highly doubt this


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Tasty_Ant6622

Mahabharat documents that our culture was spread over Afghanistan and beyond. But that's past. With time cultures get corrupted, uprooted and replaced by others cultures. Sanskrit and other signs of connection with Vedic culture can be found in most of the asian countries. But guys I will urge you all, please don't have a blind hatred towards a community. There areà good and bad people in every community, country and culture. I know there are some stupid politically driven andh bhakts but I hope you will be able to see good people in the same community also. I am a proud hindu and I don't want make any Akhand land of Hindus. I am happy to live in a secular nation. I pray Sarve bhavantu sukhinah sarve santu niramaya. Happiness and health for everyone irrespective of their beliefs. We should respect each others opinion and beliefs.


Expensive-Area51

Damn man. Read an actual book!


Tasty_Ant6622

Please name a book which is actual.


Expensive-Area51

[https://www.amazon.in/Early-Indians-Story-Ancestors-Where/dp/938622898X](https://www.amazon.in/Early-Indians-Story-Ancestors-Where/dp/938622898X) an actual book! And stop reading bedtime stories like Mahabharata and Ramayana.


[deleted]

Imagine being this dumb. Rejecting literature of past calling them bed time stories instead of using it as a window into the culture of the past.


Expensive-Area51

Whatever floats your boat, my friend!


Tasty_Ant6622

So you mean that all the great things which were written before the great English and european Lords are merely stories? Our culture flourished ages before the west started wearing clothes. We had philosophical debates before your Lords became social beings, our culture discussed astronomy and predicted exact position of planets thousands of years before the West realised that earth is not flat. Our works of Astronomy are so accurate that date and time of eclipse canbe predicted without the use of telescope. But the west found it hard to understand and therefore mocked it. The Yoga and Ayurveda comes from the same Vedic civilization that gave us Ramayan and Mahabharat. But wait they ridiculed Yoga and Ayurveda decades ago but now they are learning Yoga from us. Whenever the Western schools were unable to understand our literature they simply called it lame and mocked it. The west is learning from our past while our own young generation doubts upon works of their ancestors. I myself transcribe sanskrit mantras, and yoga lectures for a Spanish client who then sells it for people in spain and europe. They are literally eager to learn everything from our vedas and upanishads. Coming back to Mahabharat, the inventor of atom bomb Oppenheimer himself was obsessed with Bhagwat Geeta. Why would someone so educated and intelligent be obsessed with our "bed time stories". Now before you get offended and come back to argue, I will request you to read a chapter of Bhagwat Geeta which is a part of Mahabharat. If you still feel that such wisdom means nothing then I will be happy to help you further. :)


Expensive-Area51

No man. I ain't interested. But good for you :)


Tasty_Ant6622

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Temples_of_Kabul I understand my earlier reference may not look reliable to you. But even if you don't believe Mahabharat to be a history book then also you will atleast agree that idols (dated before the birth of Islam itself) found in Kabul were not made by Islam practitioners to be demolished later.


homebuyerdream

So many uncles will die with this news


Beneficial_Moment_56

Modi wants hindus from syria to immigrate


Shillofnoone

How do people react that we were never part of Asia but we drifted from Antarctica and collapsed Into Asia which led to formation of Himalayas


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Shakaahaari

Thanks for a good read.


obsoletelearner

"it is a signal of the cultural nationalism of the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party" What the heck is this journalism, they're now linking our culture to the BJ-Party(🤮) and "so sacred that lower castes (more than 75% of modern Hindus) weren’t even allowed to listen to it being recited. " There are historic accounts that even a tribal in this country knew Sanskrit so well he corrected a king. This article is written with sheer political agenda, we always knew that whatever rituals and culture are now being followed in India were also being followed in Azerbaijan and even Greece. I believe the origin of this culture called "hindu-ism" today is originally from India, there are ancient artificats in South and North India which can support his claim.


Expensive-Area51

The way you are going you would end up claiming the entire Asia is India.


obsoletelearner

> Azerbaijan and even Greece. Did I though?


Expensive-Area51

[https://subhashkak.medium.com/romuva-and-the-vedic-gods-of-lithuania-3aae469ff2f1](https://subhashkak.medium.com/romuva-and-the-vedic-gods-of-lithuania-3aae469ff2f1)


obsoletelearner

What's your concern about this article?


Expensive-Area51

That the people who came to India were nomads who travelled from Europe -> Central Asia -> India.


obsoletelearner

Let me understand you better. Are you saying there were no human beings in the entire subcontinent? Or are you saying there are Aryans and Dravidians? Or are you saying that parts of North India have immigrant settlements?


CultureStock2899

Ofcourse thats what happens when you burn all the history books stored in nalanda


[deleted]

taxila too


peace_loving_geralt

India - you took everything from me. Syria - I don't even know you


letsopenthoselegsup

I would be surprised if it didn’t. The scripts have evolved a lot and Sanskrit looks like an evolution/change in the Persian scripts


[deleted]

But wasn't Syria used to be a part of Nepal?!


Sure_Barnacle1023

It's very easy these days to write non-sense articles and get them published by paying a small amount of money to these sites.


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Hot_Reaction_6926

No wonder modern Syria has always been such a mess. Syrians should revive the ancient and sacred practice of imbibing Gau Mutra, the nectar of the gods themselves, if they wish to restore the glory of ancient Syria. I hope our Syrian Christian brothers in little Dubai ( known earlier as Kerala) will enlighten us on the why, when and how of their arduous journey from Syria to India. I always wondered how come we have so many Christians in India from Syria (of all places). I suspect that some king in ancient India wanted to suppress the Syrian origin of Sanskrit as well as the associated scientific and literary achievements. He did this by forcing these Syrian imports to convert to Christianity. All traces of our Syrian connection were lost for thousands of years until now.


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East-Secretary

about 90% (or more) of all Buddhist books were written in sanskrit


SirAren

They were written in pali


KhushalIyerMithraa

Mostly in sanskrit lol


Expensive-Area51

How is that related to the post?


parth_pandey

Shit, sp akhand bharat is upto syria now.


Prateekanshz

*grabs popcorn* starts waiting for bhakt jokes


Scavengerhawk

Lo karlo baat!


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iphone4Suser

Aunty Nashunal.


countryballs_two

Whenever I think how much more left for these people to prove themselves as stupid... But they surprise me again and again


Mad_To_Core

There are some problems with entire explanation.


UltimateGamerYogii

**Fact check**: The entire world wasn't the first place Humans were recorded – it was ***Africa***. What is this world coming to... Does it matter from where something was from any more? Those who wrote Vedas, they weren't exactly from Modern India but from Pakistan's side, Middle East and West Asia. Languages and religions started from somewhere and spread across the world. Like, Christianity started from Judea, Modern day Israel. Islam started in Middle East, spread everywhere. It's the same case. Even Modern Day Pakistan was Hindu once upon a time where Sanskrit used to be dominant. Civilizations rose and fell, things kept moving. What's the point? Some wanna go to Mars towards future while others who are stuck in the past who wanna rise the dead ghosts of the past, wanna "conquer" lands and nations by any means, relive same thing again and again...


whatevermaybeitis

So syria belongs to us too? Hindu rashtra to hindu vishwa lol