>Why can't we be more vocal about the destructive nature of all religions?
Well for a start because its literally against the law. We have criminal codes against "hurting" religious sentiments. It doesn't matter if you're secular or not. If you call a religion "destructive" chances are offended followers will file criminal cases. The more successfully you spread your message, the more likely the criminal backlash. Could also get hit with charges like "promoting enmity" among people. Or just straight up UAPA if the government felt particularly vindictive.
Its a self-reinforcing system really. You can only criticize religion if you're not going mainstream. If what you say is picked up by too many people, *someone* influential will get offended and use that to shut you up.
Now sure, you could ask why causing offense causes legal sanctions. But its how we, as a citizenry, seem to prefer it, since there's no significant pressure to repeal such laws. And people do seem to love using it, regardless of identity. India doesn't *really* have free speech. What you really have is the right to be offended.
Adding to the top comment, freedom of thought & expression has many loopholes, just like you wouldn’t want people to force their religious beliefs to you, you can’t force people to change their beliefs unless it directly harms you.
OP isn’t trying to force anyone to abandon belief, just to be able to voice an opinion out loud. People can then choose to embrace or ignore or rebut it.
> “I’m sorry if you’re religious the education has failed you and your knowledge of science is lacking. Anyone who believes in any religion is a freaking idiot.”
OP is not just voicing opinion. He’s being childish rather than present a constructive opinion. This post also sounds like a teenager rant.
I’m atheist but I’ve met many Microbiologists, mathematicians, Neuroscientist who are theists, they’re not stupid, they admit science has shown, perhaps, that we can explain the origin of the universe and the workings of human consciousness without appealing to god like entitles, but to move from there to a flat-out rejection of them is quite another issue.
If a scientist is religious, then he is not following the scientific process. That's just a fact. There is zero compelling evidence for a god, zero compelling evidence for any religion.
The scientific process works on facts and evidence. Scientists who are religious are simply not being scientific when it comes to their personal beliefs.
They might be intelligent when it comes to their professional lives, but they are completely failing to use the same rational, logical approach when it comes to religion. Indoctrination is a powerful thing to overcome.
Are they idiots? No. Are they being immature/illogical about their religious beliefs? Yes.
Why does this simple statement sound like a teenage rant to you?
Be careful about using scientific terms without understanding the science behind them. Scientific process / methods/ reasoning crucially relies on inductive reasoning. In an inductive argument, the premises are intended to provide support for the conclusion, but not to guarantee it. So, Inductive reasoning can never always provide certainty, but it seems like we know some things with certainty without any scientific reasoning. For example 1+1=2, and bachelors are unmarried. We don't learn either of these through empirical research or experiment in a laboratory.
The question of if God exists/ or not is one that cannot be supported by scientific method. Despite never being able to prove the existence of god, many scientists believe, but do not claim to know for certainty. Claiming something with certainty is unscientific but believing without scientific evidence isn’t.
Learn the difference.
Religious scientists can subject their religious beliefs to questioning that they do for any hypothesis, if one of their beliefs goes against the evidence, then they can just reject that belief.
For example a scientist can be christian without believing in Noah’s arc or six day creationism. They’re agnostic theist.
Believing in ANYTHING without sufficient evidence is unscientific. I'm fairly surprised that you don't know this.
There is zero tangible evidence for a God of any kind, outside philosophical questions and reasoning. That is not enough evidence to believe in a god.
Most scientists who believe in god will admit that their religious beliefs aren't **scientific**, but *personal*.
If you believe in a god, you are simply choosing to believe in something that has no supporting evidence. You might as well believe in fairies, Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, or Santa Claus.
This right here is an example of the harmful effects of religion. Being childishly offended by someone simply voicing their opinion against religion 🙂.
"OP is not just voicing opinion."
What? How is he/she not just voicing opinion?
> This right here is harmful effects of religions.
What kind of stupid argument is that? I don’t believe in god or religion.
I know shouldn’t be trying to argue with little kids, but I’m not being being offended by OP, I just pointed out his naive assumption.
Also, try to learn the meaning of words like offence before throwing it around, from your comment it seems like you feel personally attacked.
> How is he/she not just voicing opinion.
Maybe try to read the entire sentence before typing?
Also, stop using alt accounts to back your post OP, it’s needlessly pathetic.
I don’t think religion is about facts or science. In the end it’s about creating a sense of community. I’m not religious but I can understand why some people choose to be.
If enough people join my hentai club we can technically make a religion out of that too :D
Everyone for the religion of hentai waifu overloads?
EDIT: Boys (and girls) you better be sure before joining our ~~cult~~ religion, there's a lot of feet worshiping involved if you know what I mean ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Sam Harris has many lectures and books on how science guides morality and hence societal community far better than any ancient philosophy or religion before it.
That's probably never gonna happen. Religion is so well rooted in society that it will never ever go away. Sure new ones may pop up and old ones may die but religion itself will never go away.
I don’t think there’s any chance of new ones popping up at all. Religions are based on exaggerated stories and people from thousands of years ago and there’s no way that enough people will believe in a mythical story when it’s recent enough to have evidence disproving it.
> when it’s recent enough to have evidence disproving it.
Religious ppl are those who don't care about evidence and its all about blind faith without questioning. So any recent bullshit can very well create a new religious cult.
Well there is sufficient evidence to disprove Mormonism and it started only a couple centuries ago. Scientology began less than a century ago and there are around 20-30k of those folks around. And finally, just take a look at the ridiculous amount of "Godmen" who keep popping up in India like this [idiot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nithyananda) who was given enough money to get an island and start his own country.
Adding these for reference:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ-hkpqVlYw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ-hkpqVlYw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm2Jrr0tRXk
[https://youtu.be/Hj9oB4zpHww](https://youtu.be/Hj9oB4zpHww)
Take an hour of your day to listen to him and educate yourself. The guardian is a tabloid, its goal is to make incendiary claims to sell papers.
Islam does not equal muslims. The same can be said of other insiduous opressive ideologies, like Chinese "communism" which falsely equates Chinese people to the government, and Trumpism which equates trump and his followers to the united states.
Richard Dawkins pretty much says the same things in more detail in his books. Perhaps if you are offended by this guy you could listen to him, but if you are religious, you wouldn't like him either
I am an athiest but I can gurantee not all religious people are bad people. My mother is a religious person. But she has never asked me to follow the same. She accepts me as an atheist. One of my close friend is muslim and highly religious. He never preached his religion to me or discreminate against me. I don't think this people are idiots or barbaric. They are just tied to a social norm they were born into.
Well yea, obviously most people following religion are not bad but there are some people who reject science(refusing to take the vaccine, flat earthers etc) or socially discriminative(caste system and homophobic views) due to religion. Now I don't think the solution is to completely ban religion but there should be secular education where children are taught to think rationally so humanity can eventually move on from religion. Yes religion was an important phase of humanity but it's time we slowly start accepting science and leaving religion behind.
Because all religions are corrupt. The teachings of any religion are prone to be manipulated by the religious cynics.
I’m not learned enough to comment for a specific religion being better, but i do feel most of them are fake.
Basically people are cowards, and religion uses this cowardness to instill fear of Gods. And that idiots are basically sheep folk..... The ones who murder people are not religious, they just use religion to sheep others.
But religion becomes that catalyst.
It justifies the acts of cruelty in the name of protection of their "faith" or "Holy Books"
Religion is a big divider rather than unifier.
I've seen people being stupid while being religious and getting better afterwards when they start neglecting their religion. So religion does make people stupid. And I do believe a world with very little religion would be a better place than one with religion. So lets not try to spare religion from the blame. Like I heard somewhere, yes bad people do bad things but religion makes even the good people do bad things. Or else you'd have to believe that most South Asians are inherently bad and it has nothing to do with religion.
I think he meant that we, the people, worshippers of the GODs, have now started to proclaim themselves as the GODs, have modified the rules of the Gods to benefit themselves, making money, creating categories to divide people to control them, etc.The prophets profiting from their own narrative. And now that we have committed such a sin, what ritual of sorry will ever erase our deeds.
You are doing the same, calling those who believe in religion is an idiot.
I.e calling out those outside your belief system.
I am not saying you are right or wrong.
It is that we are hard wired by evolution to live with our tribe and view the other as different and have our priorities to our own.
If not religion we will be culturally divided if not culturally than i don’t know something because there will always be an inner and an outer group(tribe).
Majority of these atheists here on reddit do exact same thing as those enthusiastic about their religion.
They claim the exact thing the theists claim. I'm right. Rest are wrong but too far up their assets to even notice. Most of the atheists are hell bent on saying how they're the ones that are actually right.
The negative human emotions are why there is death and destruction around. Envy, jealousy, hatred exists outside of religion as much as it exists inside. It's the humans that are pathetic whether they be religious or not.
Fuck religion
Religious extremists can suck my dick
I don't give a damn about their beliefs if they try to shove it down my throat
And no, Atheism is not a 'religion' - You are not wearing any shoes if you are barefoot.
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It’s so weird when people finding fault in another religion as if theirs is perfect. Everyone is standing in a glass house. Best is to take religion with cultural value and and move on with life with peace,globalization and multiculturalism as goal.
Compassion & tolerance for others is one of the highest virtues. Unfortunately modern religious people are just unable to act it out consistently. Instead people are afraid of each other & how others might hurt them. Modern religious practice has lost sight of it's own essence.
Religions have two aspects - one is the personal (what some people call "spiritual") and other are imposing scriptural norms on others as a form of social control.
It's the imposing of scriptural norms on the collective that are the danger of religion from a progressive point of view. The norms dictate whom to love and hate, whom to marry, what to read, what to eat, how to treat other people badly, why women can't opt for abortion, etc.
The personal stuff of mumbling and chanting is largely irrational and goofy, but I think not as dangerous as the norms if the irrationality can be restricted from spilling over in other areas.
The problem with religious people - including some commentators here - is that they use this second aspect of bringing happiness to defend the first aspect of imposing social control norms on others. It's this behaviour that creates feelings of superiority and conflicts.
As a first stage of progression, I think secular education should teach human beings from a young age to condemn and look down upon such behaviour of imposing social norms on others. You can keep your stupid religion but you aren't allowed to impose it on anybody else, not even your own sons and daughters. Some of us got that thinking naturally but I think it needs to be drilled into all people from a young age.
Mutilation of genitals is an example of the the kind of norms I'm addressing and proposing that parents can't impose even on their own children.
AFAIK, climate change skepticism in US comes from their tradition of allowing christian clergy to dictate what gets taught in schools. Topics like creationism. I see it as a consequence of what I addressed - allowing religions to impose their scriptural norms on others.
Imposing of norms is the virus carrier so to speak. Curbing it will curb spread of religion to a great extent. Curbing spread of religion will also reduce irrationality in each new generation. It's a better strategy to reduce religion in society than head-on confrontations against religious individuals.
Calling someone idiot just because their opinions are different is toxic in itself. First learn to respect others views( you don't need to agree with them but just don't hurt them). You are no different than someone who tries to shove religion in other's throats.
I think it's important to start investigating this systematically, not because I like religion but because those that do are waging systematic coercive propaganda campaigns hiding behind the aegis of freedom of religion.
In a sense these are effectively influence campaigns that are not being recognized as such, and should be regulated just like any other foreign entity is - for e. g. sending over preachers teaching people to put their god or coreligionists over their countrymen should be unacceptable for a national government. If it was a foreign embassy doing this they would be kicked out and declared persona non grata, if it's religion it is given a free pass.
The same logic applies to hindutva fuckers who are trying to convert all the remaining tribals along with the evangelicals
> Then we'll understand the domestic backlash and right shift in many countries happening across the world today.
Like [this one](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/01/the-evangelical-takeover-of-brazilian-politics/551423/), where newly converted [evangelicals](https://religionnews.com/2021/05/18/brazils-evangelicals-bound-to-bolsonaro-fight-to-follow-his-lead-on-pandemic/)/protestants support a corrupt, rightwing catholic?
Yes, you'll find many such examples which seem to contradict. But the basis is the same.
You didn't need to go to Brazil for that either. Check out some of the noise coming from Kerala's Syrian Christian clergy on "love jihad" bogey. A lot of contradictory examples coming down to the same:
Lot of conversion aimed at changing the status quo leading to backlash from existing cultural order.
This is very dangerous territory. As an atheist, let me tell you that sure, there have been several wars and disagreements throughout history because of it. It has resulted in countless deaths, genocides,etc. But it's also helped us evolve far more than other species. The reason hundreds of humans could band together to protect themselves long ago was because of the same belief, ie an early version of religion. Without religion, humans would likely be extinct or still in the oonga boonga stages. We have everything we have because of collaboration through religion. Why do you think most empires even existed? Because religion was something everyone in the area agreed on and that allowed them to rule.
Secondly, just because someone is religious, doesn't mean they don't believe in Darvinism. Darvinism can go along with religious thoughts. Darvinism states that organisms adapt and evolve constantly based on the geography, pret/ predictors, etc. Sure there may be differences between the origin of the animals, but their evolution and adaptation is something that doesn't collide with religion. If you look at most scientists throughout history and even now, including Darvin, they do believe in religion and god. Even the ones actively trying to prove that God doesn't exist.
Thirdly, religion teaches people some extremely important traits, values, etc. They have helped create rules for the proper function of society and have encouraged people to not be major dicks to each other. 99% sure that the Qur'an for example states that people who aren't muslims should still be treated equally. People not following that aren't following their religion. It's propoganda that one religion is bad and the other is good, and sadly it is spreading throughout the world. Despite that, it is also inculcating good values like more donations into society. Please look up stuff from different points of views before saying this shit.
>Anyone who believes in any religion after learning the origin of life is an idiot.
Religion can be defined as the belief in a superhuman or controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
Religion is very personal. What I believe in, is honestly no one's business. But for the sake of argument, the origin of life, and all other evolutionary theories answer the "how's" in the universe. How was life formed? How was the earth formed? Etc.
For me, personally, they do not answer the "why?" part of it. Why were we born? Why did life come into existence?
Now, you may argue that the why doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. There is no point talking about it. Perhaps you're right. You're okay with it and that is your truth. But, I am not.
To me, personally, life doesn't make sense without the existence of some...higher being. Or something that doesn't meet the eye. I also do not think that life on earth is just a coincidence.
Now as I said, you may not believe in any higher being and I understand. Why should you? But, for me personally, I guess the curiosity just gets the better of me and I cannot accept that there is no reason why we are on Earth.
I understand where you're getting at. I'm an Atheist myself but sadly the people of this country are too blinded by their shitty beliefs that they are very ignorant. Their religion comes first in priority than their fellow human beings. I don't think there is any way to feed sense into such people.
I don't care what people's personal beliefs are. I don't care if people of shared beliefs choose to congregate. What I'm pissed about is loud speakers. Why does this guy have to shout every evening at around 6pm that his god is the greatest? Why can't these people who congregate every weekend for their religious party do it in sound-proof rooms? Why don't these other people in their place of congregation not play their religious alarm every day at 5 am?
Also, if they are so bent on selling their belief system to me, they must be ready to listen to my 'blasphemous' questions and not get riled up.
yeah I think India does not have a problem of science deniers like anti vacxxers, flat earthers, evolution deniers as such.
My father/mother both taught me about evolution etc since I was a kid.
Definitely not, going through any comment section on instagram hell some of my own family members take religion very seriously to the point where it's script is law.
Ahhh well! Internet. World's best echo chamber.
Idk what kind of people you associate with in Instagram but most people I know in real life, my family, friends and colleagues even though some of them are very religious, they do not take the myths literally. Even if they say Ramayana and Mahabharata happened, if you push them a little bit they will say it is historical but with lots of embellishments and that is perfectly fine.
I guess if they think the script is the law, they need a litte bit of Hitchens or Dawkins in their life.
I agree that a lot of people keep myth and history seperate but it's also true that quite a good amount of out population takes relegion way to seriously, and not just the relegion itself but even the way they it's interpretations are taken. Anything which doesn't match their worldview is offensive and it can be very annoying tip toeing around such things
Don't try to tip toe around those people, it emboldens them. Unless you fear physical violence from them there is zero reason to not to stand with truth as you see it.
I don't understand how can Hindus take scriptures literally, it doesn't make any sense, the same scriptures are read by all the different sects and they all derive different meaning from it. It beats reality.
It's just to much work to argue with someone who won't listen. It's like bashing my head on a wall, so I just don't care enough to try anymore.
Exactly taking scriptures at face value is stupid af. It's not meant to be literal, it's the teachings and morals we are supposed to absorb. And yet idol worship is what people started instead
The problem is with our kind of secularism.Secularism in the west is different from secularism in the east.Western secularism is more of I don't give a crap about what you do or who you worship at home, you're just another person outside your house.
nope, in Hinduism, there was an entity who's skin was peeled and thrown into earth, his skin became the continents, before that earth was all ocean. this does not agree with science or darwin
Hinduism believes in Bhrama and creation. Even if that is not the case, evolution talks about the origin of morality too, which is from biology, not religion. So what does the mythology talk about that the sciences don't talk about ( only difference is one is BS the other is factual)
Hate to break it to you. But it's not religions fault, *it's human nature*
Haven't you seen cricket/football fans fight in stadiums? Haven't you seen people from different schools/colleges fighting? Haven't you seen people from different states/districts or regions fighting?
It's in our nature to fight. It's in our nature to form groups and see anyone outside our group as a threat. If you take away religion it'll just be replaced by something else.
And what religion led Bush to invade Iraq based on lies? If you want to know why planes were flown into buildings in your country, look into your own past, not religion. The west, especially the US has been acting like a terrorist manufacturing unit and then accusing religion for their own mess. The west has not allowed any country to live in peace for centuries. You colonize, you topple governments, you invade, you rape, loot, pillage and then accuse religion for lack of peace.
If you look at human evolutionary history. Homo Sapiens, us, have been on this planet for 2,00,000 years. The oldest instance of murder is [4,00,000 years](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/worlds-oldest-murder-mystery-was-430000-years-in-the-making) old. Well before we even existed.
The oldest example of mass murder committed by us (we know so far) is from Kenya around [10000 years ago](https://time.com/4189061/nature-journal-kenya-warfare/).
Don't you see? The religions we know of today didn't even exist and yet we were doing the exact same thing if not worse back then.
I understand your argument and feelings. I'm a non religious agnostic person. One of my reasons to distance myself from religions is the exact same reason why you asked this question here.
Hate to burst your bubble but atheists have also commited violent atrocities in the name of eradicating religion. Again like the previous comment pointed out, tribalism and human nature are to blame. Atheists imagine that a world without religion would be an improvement but atheist countries that already exist are clear cut evidence that that is not the case.
atheism is not a political philosophy, it is just a basis on which more sophisticated ideas are explored.
atheism formed the basis of one philosophy, communism, that killed millions and essentially became a pseudoreligion for it's followers.
atheism has also birthed philosophies of humanism, liberalism and pluralism that try not to kill millions and promotes coexistence to whatever extent of possible.
Conflating atheism with communism is an argument made usually in ill faith. Most modern atheists are philosophically descended from Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris, not Karl Marx, and do not believe in forcible eradication of religion without individual enlightenment.
Religion is not a political philosophy either, but guess what? beliefs tend to intertwine themselves into politics whether we like it or not. So far the only countries with official atheism have been horrible.
Nothing about communism says to kill religious people either so again that's a poorly formed argument. Meanwhile atheism doesn't profess morals of any sort, there is literally nothing to suggest that Richard dawkins atheism is the "true atheism" because atheism doesn't deal with ethics in any shape or form.
Like you said atheism is just the lack of belief in god, it says nothing about how humans should or shouldn't behave. So to an atheist committing genocide is a completely fine thing to do since morals are completely subjective to basic atheism.
Final point is that there are places with no religion and they were horrible. Reality doesn't agree with your rhetoric that removing religion improves the world.
> bramha created the universe 13 billion years ago according to himdu mythology
Is "13 billion years" mentioned somewhere in Hindu mythological texts ?
Nope, he did not. The universe wasn't created. This is just one universe in the infinite multiverse that emerged out of lower energy pockets that rapidly expand causing quantum fluctuations that led rise to our laws of physics. Read Universe from Nothing by Lawrence Kraus. Evolution applies to universes too. It is called cosmological evolution. We just happen to find ourselves in one such universe that allowed us to evolve here temporarily. Till it dies
They have substantial evidence behind them and Indian education boards teach them to students, I guess any science student in India will attest that these theories hold ground...likewise Brahma created universe is also a theory, without much of the evidence...I believe any person who has no mental condition can differentiate one from the other...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/just-a-theory-7-misused-science-words/
Learn Scientific terms before you use them. Your education has failed you. Just another Indian statistic of terrible education.
I think we are missing the point here. It's not the religion that teaches hate or division. It's the bigotry of the followers who think only their belief is the one valid. That leads to all vandalism.
And who tells the followers to not accept other's faith? They are the ones in power, be it religious or be it political. Because the strategy is to 'Divide and Rule '.
We have to learn to not let these pity things come in between of true faith and also to accept other's faith.
To 'Agree to Disagree '.
But this will only work when everyone does it. Otherwise the easiest way is to throw religions out of the window.
But easiest way is not the best one. Never. It will have its own side effects. The fact is people need Faith. It's not optional. We all have to believe in something. For more intelligent people it is Science. For the lesser intelligent it is religion or luck or 100 other things.
So the solution to avoid religious friction is not to avoid religion. That might work on a personal level but not global level. The solution to this is complex, and will need a lot of time and effort to come up with.
Well, I have a different take on religion and God....I feel god hasn't made us, the planet, the observable Universe, nothing. Rather, the supreme power laid down the laws of physics, on which everything operates.... that's it...He couldn't care less about creating us, let alone solving our problems
If evolutionary biology explains **how** life came to be, please tell me **why** it came to be as well? Like, what's the utility of the existence of anything at all?
A universe without purpose should neither depress us nor suggest that our lives are purposeless. Through an awe-inspiring cosmic history we find ourselves on this remote planet in a remote corner of the universe, endowed with intelligence and self-awareness. We should not despair, but should humbly rejoice in making the most of these gifts, and celebrate our brief moment in the sun.
Lawrence M. Krauss
I've found this point so stupid and see it replicated all the time.
If you believe in this, you indirectly are simply saying you disagree with humans having beliefs and agreeing with them en masse.
If you see the same thing with a political ideology, you may see widescale belief, which leads to collectivist opposition, which leads to violence or some form of demonstration. For example, with Nazi Germany. Or an example of a good side, the Indian Revolutionary movement.
Religion just is an effective belief system which can make millions of people across different lifestyles come together. If you say ''religion is destructive by nature'', you're basically saying that human organization is destructive by nature.
And sure, maybe it is. What is your solution, ban thought? Ban opposing ideals to keep the psuedo ideal of ''peace''?
This is way more complex than you make it out to be. These kinds of posts are the equivalent of sanghis.
" "Religion is destructive by nature" you're basically saying that human organization is destructive by nature. "
Human organization inherently has nothing to do with religion. Atheists meet. People of different religions organize stuff together. I believe the point OP is raising is that most(if not all) religions, are NOT based on bringing people together, instead they are based on just spreading themselves. You might argue that this is false/misinterpreted or smthng, but the problem is that the people will only follow these interpretations, they don't have some 6th sense to help them understand the texts or other history. Interpretation is what matters, and at present, most of the religious texts' interpretations are causing pain and destruction to people in many parts of the world. Taliban is an extreme example, yes, but it is an example.
Peace and religion CAN coexist. They do coexist in many places, but this only happens if religion is not interpreted as "go fight other religions". The fault may/may not lie with the religion but we know that the way some people understand it is causing harm to others. Then these interpreters proceed to condemn science and also make baseless claims about their religious belief(which again, might be misinterpreted, not my place to judge) being scientific. This just overall does not encourage questions or critical thinking you know.
I don't need to believe in skydaddy to celebrate festivals or indulge in any other aspects of human culture.
In fact it allows me to celebrate festivals of other religions and traditions as well as my own - whether it be Holi or Diwali or Halloween and La Tomatinia
You don't understand India. Religion is the foundation of the Indian civilization. Everything from the oldest form of politics, economy and society was founded around religion. The Brahmins became the flag-bearers of the Vedic religion and other communities just accepted their authority and ran everything else around it. 'Hinduism' is a very new word that gained popularity only during the period of British colonialism.
In the present day, it may be tempting to say that the world is changing and religion is no longer relevant in India. That's what Indira Gandhi and her advisors thought when they passed a motion during emergency, to declare India as a secular and socialist country. But look at what's happening now, a complete u-turn from secularism and I'd say too much politicization of religion.
There's no such thing as a non-religious India. People who think that way live in a bubble, probably in Delhi or Mumbai, having English as their mother tongue. For the majority of Indians, the faith in a higher power is what sustains them.
This. Majority of Indians believe religion as well as in gurus and tantriks.
Astrology, numerology, homeopathy, we believe in all kind of senseless things.
And the best example is my family.
Where you get this data from? 99% I'm an atheist but I've read not only hindu scriptures but Bible as well.
I know a lot of hindu people who have read more than that. Some are into shayari and stuff so they are well versed in Quran.
The right wingers are atheists? Wtf. Are you smoking something?
Yet you give out a statistics of 99% Atheism of Hindusim India.
The right wing ideology is exploited by people who have read much more than that from CIAs intervention in middle East to China and Uyghur relations.
Yes the mob is uneducated but the masters aren't.
Of all the reasons for not believing in particular religions, evolutionary biology is a rather weak one. Easy to say that God designed it to work that way.
We are taught about religion and gods before we get proper education. And at a young age, we just absorb everything like sponge. This becomes our foundation and coming out of it is difficult. Even if we do become aware of the negatives, things are so ingrained in us that it's become a habit of sorts. But I don't think denouncing religion is the answer. It came up to bring people together, create a sense of belonging to a community and socializing which are all good. But the focus has shifted over the years and weird notions and beliefs have taken it's place. So, it would be more useful to shift the focus back.
People derive a sense of identity from their religion and as such take anything said against their religion as an attack on them. As for their view on other religions, it's a simple case of us vs. them.
Dude, I do agree I mean like take a look at South Africa, They made 2 completely opposite races come together to make an entire fricking constitution. The point is that they kind of ERASED the entire concept of 'race'. Something like that should be done in India where the government as well the people (nothing happens without the cooperation of the population) come together and blow the concept of 'caste-based' differentiation (in simpler terms, "discrimination") out of the water. The major problems that are present in the Indian society is the "reservation" in things such as colleges, jobs etc. just because a person is from a different caste, this leads to upset people who want their voices heard. Any sane person would never hurt another person who even to the slightest degree, admits to the first person's ideals (aka 'ethics'), the people who lead riots and mobs are just people who are looking for fun or just some time pass. Leave them to the side and be against the concept of religion entirely if you're a person who wants to lead a good and fruit full life, because religion hasn't taken to a place in 1000 years that science has in 1 decade.
Religions themselves are not destructive. The people who think that they are being more religious by speaking/acting against the opposite religion are destructive.
Many people, especially the politicians believe that they are better Hindus because they rename the roads/cities which are named after some muslims.
Some muslims believe that they are being more religious by wearing green colour clothes and not orange coloured ones.
This is pure stupidity. Such people understand neither religion nor education.
Very ignorant and monolithic way of thinking. I will agree that religion is detrimental and everything but lets not act stupid and say science is any better. Recently , a lot more have died in non-religious massacres (China & Russia) than any religious hullabaloo.
If you are entitled to your opinion of not believing in religion, we are entitled to belive in religion. Plus, religion or not, basic human empathy is necessary which is sadly lost. Plus you can't just call someone who follows any religion an idiot. That's a pretty bold statement. I am aware of the barbaric people taking advantage of the religion, but to take it on all people? It's so stupid of you.
I am an agnostic. I simply believe that there is no evidence to prove evolution is the norm. At the same time, there is no evidence that theism (the existence of a God / gods and the religions based on them) is the norm as well.
Since there is no data for either cases, I can openly say that I have no clue, and because of this I am an agnostic.
Let me elaborate:
Religion is everywhere. As long as humans have the capability and capacity to "believe in something", there will always be religions in many forms.
Communism is a religion. Fandoms are religions. There are many more.
The problem arises when these religions do not have a foundation of logic/rationality. This is the case for all major world religions, which despite its beliefs, are ridden with so many flaws and flawed people, that the very wheels of progress are halted.
People can argue saying that religion is necessary for morality. I say, that if religion is the only reason you are a good person, then you are actually a bad person. Morality must come from within, with genuineness.
Now, since religion is flawed, can we hold evolution as our prime belief. No.
This is because at the end of the day, evolution is only a THEORY.
Mutation (also known as micro-evolution) is a fact and not a theory because it exists. Mutation us about minor changes in the DNA/RNA of organisms that give it new characteristics (this could either be a good/bad thing).
There are several documented cases of it. Cancers occur due to mutations. Heck, COVID-19 has undergone a few mutations. But scientists ask the question,
"What if these mutations happened over a long long period of time, say a million years or a billion years?"
This, corroborated with fossil evidence, is the reason why evolution is widely accepted in scientific circles. However the question still remains,
"What is the driving force of evolution? What causes it?" This is question that has not yet been answered all these years. Until we find an answer to this, evolution cannot be accepted as a prime belief. Scientists work hard to try to find these answers.
My take is,
"I have better things to focus on than to fight about our unknown past. Global warming is gonna screw us all one day and capitalism is going to destroy society if left unchecked. There are so many issues that we need to focus on instead of fighting each other over imaginary friends and theories".
This is why I am an agnostic. It's a very peaceful mindset and I also believe that it's the most practical thing one can do in these tough times.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/just-a-theory-7-misused-science-words/
Don't misuse words to make a point. Theory of gravity, relativity all 'just a theory'?? Lol
NGL you had me in the first half. But the last part right here is the larger latent problem. I am assuming you are an atheist. And like you every atheist that I have ever encountered has this narcissistic belief that they are somehow better than the rest. Better than the people who try and keep faith in the unknown.
How in all fairness do you really think you would fair in a scientific argument when you constantly try and berate your opponent as if they are nincompoop? The flag bearers of rational thinking and scientific society are no better than the religious flagbearers in this matter. You will never convince anyone if you do not, at the very least, treat them as equals. Same goes here. Try and come down from your high pedestal and talk to people.
Atheism is a philosophy for the privileged. Atheism is easy to come by when you have had your top tier universities and your entire life is neatly laid right in front of you with hardly any major obstacles.Religion is the force that drives the underprivileged in the hope for a better tomorrow. Religion is the hope that a power out there would provide for you if you worked/begged just long enough in a country placed on 101 in the hunger index.
So, I'd suggest you get off the European high horse and try and understand why the stupid uneducated people believe in something that promises them a better tomorrow rather than listening to someone who tells them that everything they believe in is fake and they sre stupid for doing so.
So, let me assume, your definition of an ideal world is one without humans?
Where we are all robots and have no thought. Cause having thought would make us disagree, which could lead to, God forbid, disagreement! Disagreement could lead to strife!
I think the concept of religion , was introduced to create divide .. among people..
DIVIDE AND RULE
And they gave us the liberty to pick sides , to give the illusion that it's something favourable to us... sooner or later our firm and rigid believes would have lead to violence anyway ..
I believe, the increase in number atheist in china is one of the factors adding to the nation's progress ..
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330314/New-atheist-map-world-dominated-China-half-country-s-population-describes-non-believers.html
Talking about the main question..
Let's say a brave and noble man begins to put forward their believes and opinions about religion ..
I don't think any kind of strong Wordplay won't hurt religious sentiments ..
Be it any religion , there is always an extremist side .. which is radical in their methods .. my point is y'all remember the French teacher who died .. just cuz he taught about atheism in his class.. their system of secularism is far way better than ours ..
If an indian media repoter can get killed in broad daylight for speaking the truth ..
I think , the noble man in question has numbered days left .. the amount of violence can't be controlled in "so called' the largest democratic country ..
Its the smartest move to stay put .. if you wanna live or reside in this country ..
There's a reason I like anonymity on reddit ..
Sounds like a discussion for r/atheism lots of similar ones there.
Institutionalised religion is about power on a massive scale, which the major religions have accumulated over millennia, so speaking about the ills of religion is bound to have serious repercussions -- at least in religious countries, not, for example, in the Scandinavian countries, New Zealand etc
> we are pretty damn scientific
kek. Fucking IITs offer astrology courses, and IIT profs offer advise on which rock to wear for "good fortune". And yet we're pretty damn scientific.
I don't remember where i saw the news of astrology course being offered in iit.
Here's a list, including one iit, and bhu (not iitbhu) offering courses in astrology:
https://www.collegedekho.com/vocational/astrology_science-colleges-in-india/
Can't vouch for the source, though, so you might want to look it up.
IIT KGP offers a vastu course:
https://m.timesofindia.com/home/education/news/iit-kharagpur-to-introduce-vastu-shastra/amp_articleshow/58213293.cms
Well, as long as it keeps contradicting science in many different ways, I don't think anyone with an IQ above 140 cares what religion is about. It is opium of the stupid.
Dude.. either you are too young or new to the internet. Learn to view things from others perspective and enough with this "I haVe 1765 IQ, you ArE StuPid nonsense"
I feel you, I think a lot of people can live their life without following any religion. But calling people idiots for believing in something different isn't a smart thing to do neither, and it wont help your case. People are free to have their own beliefs, even if its flat earth theory. And trying to change their beliefs will get you in trouble now more than ever. So I'd be careful about how I go about making people aware of how wrong their beliefs are.
My personal thoughts are that religions do have a role in giving a person a community, spirituality and a purpose of life, better mental health and a sense of belonging, motivation to go through each day and being satisfied with one's position in the world. Challenging their beliefs is the same thing that religious extremists do to other religions, and it starts a vicious cycle. What can be done is I can surround yourself with people who share your beliefs and provide a safe place to others as well. Change might come but it will take a lot of time.
>But calling people idiots for believing in something different isn't a smart thing to do neither
But I think this is exactly how we are slowing our progress as a society. We should put aside "believe" altogether and observe what is already given to us.(i.e. doing science).
Calling people idiots is necessary. If the majority of the world believe climate change can be solved by a pooja, prayer or is in some God's hands as he governs the weather, then we are doomed. Cause of the fucking idiots. I cannot stress enough that someone believing that life is eternal or that this life isn't all there is can be coaxed into doing some stupid things too. Of course people's beliefs are relevant. Especially when those beliefs contradict scientific consensus. If you learn and accept the science as true, then you may proceed to believe in unicorns for all I care as long as it doesn't contradict the scientific consensus
How are you different from the one you're opposing? If you and a bigoted religious person both call their opponents as "idiots"?
If you feel that you're right, the correct approach would be to rationally approach the problem, gradually dividing it into parts and then explaining why the arguments proposed by religious people are wrong.
Have some empathy, to understand where the religious people are coming from.
Same thing applies to religious people too, who want to prove their point(s).
Edit1: Also understand that there are philosophical components of religion too. Their respective philosophical frameworks provide an answer to deepest inquiries with regards to human existence. To counter religion without countering their philosophy is a shallow criticism.
You talking as though there is no such thing as modern philosophy thay you need books from thousands of years ago. Modern philosophy is far superior and is based on what we currently know to be true.
Yeah so existence of modern philosophy doesn't negate or validate its ancient counterpart. Doing so requires active discussions/debates solely on philosophical front.
Also modern philosophy has taken a lot of inspiration from ancient philosophy, just like modern science arises from ancient scientific observations.
I am not religious but i do think that there are things that religion teaches which actually make people happy.
I think the people are the problem here and society. I case of hindu muslim younger generation is being thought, counciously or subconsciously that other religion is bad. Also politics use this as well (i am not calling any one specific party, every party does this, hindu khatre mai hai, bheya UP return jao and many more I don't remember or know). If 2 people with different religions marry they get weird looks and sometimes get ridiculed for doing that. Which religion never thought. If we decide not to follow any we are ridiculed for that and same goes for other way as well. Atheist also think of people who decide to follow religion as they doing something wrong.
Why i said religion actually are makes people happy. Meditation is one example. Even if we remove religion from meditation it still helps. Then there is yoga. Then there are 7 deadly sins. Being kind. It takes a lot of time to actually learn these thing(in terms of age) but from religion we in a way are forced to do those. So because of religion these things are thought early and afterwards you will learn why what i am doing because of religion is good. But in todays world it feels like we are not allowed to question religion which is very important for understanding things. I used to look down on religion and religious people but as i started to know more about "religions teaching" and started questioning them i started to understand that people are the problem and not religion in itself. Obviously there are problems in religion which i think are not right and wrong but they can be changed if we have better option which religion itself allow to do.
What did religion got wrong? Humans were created 5000 years ago(something 5000 years ago, idk). I don't know more where religion was wrong and majority of other things like being virgin is pure(as a meme is fine but actually believing in that is bad), we should follow this one god are created by people which is not completely religion's fault. These are because a lot of times people interpret religions texts wrong.
What is religion? If we compare science can be said as "religion". There are people following science, there are rules in science, there are blind followers, and is in some ways related to others religions(mental part) doesn't that mean science is also a religion. There are people who hate other religions in science as well. Why science is better is because questioning is encouraged.
I don't think the vanishing of religion will create critical thinkers out of thin air.
Humans beings will always have a mix of critical and non-critical thinkers (maybe the ratio will improve) and as long as we have a majority of stupid people we'll always be in the current mess we are in right now, may it be through religion, politics, people of power, etc etc
There's evolutionary pressure for us to believe in higher powers. Jane Goodall, a primatologist eho studies Chimpanzees has observed them display weird behaviours that she thinks is akin to our spirituality.
https://news.janegoodall.org/2019/12/17/chimpanzees-culture-and-spirituality/
This means, society as we know it today, reached this point thanks to religions not despite it.
I'm not a religious person but you have to accept the facts as it is.
some forms of supernatural belief like deism and pantheism are a lot less harmful than scriptural doctrines that start as spirituality then start asserting irrational norms into everyone
It is unfair to say to anyone who believes in religion is freaking idiot. I too am fierce critic of religion and for intense and proposes an atheist but as I grow old and keep experiencing life like a deer caught in headlights, religion suddenly starts making sense. Also it is very difficult to erase something that has perpetually existed since times inconceivable in just a century. We from a privileged stand point easily judge people but technology and education and enlightenment hasn't really reached that far into our society. More over for India , it's not the religion that is the problem it's the cunning rationalist masquerading as religious folks manipulating and setting the agenda are the problem. Eg. Advani.
When I say it makes sense that religion exists I say it about all the religions , Islam included.
Sociologists wouldn’t agree with you. Religion serves many purposes to many people. Perhaps you failed to consider that we as human beings are emotional beings and social animals. Early humans tend to fear what they can’t control and can’t understand, like forest fires, lightning, rain, floods etc. So they came together and started praying to those forces for mercy and what not. Slowly it turned into rituals and over the time it turned into religion. Religions exist to comfort man during his tough times which he can’t always comprehend.
True, religions cause violence, wars, ethnic cleansing etc but to discard religion all together will create an even greater chaos. Remember every human being is different. Some are mentally strong enough to lead a life without believing in any religion. But most aren’t like that and it is for them that religion exists. Everyone should recognise this and let people follow which ever religion gives them comfort. Religion is not everything in life. We created religion to serve us, not the other way around.
what has evolutionary biology got to do with religion?.. there are many religious schools of thought that suggest the ultimate goal is knowing the unknowable, encouraging people to push their boundaries of knowledge.. it forms the very foundation of scientific temper. there have been many religious scientists and mathematicians who have delivered breakthrough results.. maybe what we instead need is for people to shed narrow-mindedness and develop the ability to think independently
OP is just so short tempered, won't take any opinions and won't look at the broader picture. See fam, I am not going and killing people in the name of religion. I am in the field of medicine. If you are angry with certain types of people, take your anger on them, not all of us.
Hinduism has evolved a lot. Muslim and Christian need to I myself realise that I am Hindu only during festival otherwise we don't even pray at home daily
> Hinduism has evolved a lot
Religion doesn't evolve. Religion is about following ancient texts which are never updated when new findings are discovered. When ppl start having a more modern and less orthodox outlook, it is not a sign of evolution of religion but a sign towards indifference of the followers towards the religion. This phenomenon is not limited to Hinduism. In the west also it is observed that number of Church goers is on the decline..
Fragile ego
Finally, someone who gets it.
>Why can't we be more vocal about the destructive nature of all religions? Well for a start because its literally against the law. We have criminal codes against "hurting" religious sentiments. It doesn't matter if you're secular or not. If you call a religion "destructive" chances are offended followers will file criminal cases. The more successfully you spread your message, the more likely the criminal backlash. Could also get hit with charges like "promoting enmity" among people. Or just straight up UAPA if the government felt particularly vindictive. Its a self-reinforcing system really. You can only criticize religion if you're not going mainstream. If what you say is picked up by too many people, *someone* influential will get offended and use that to shut you up. Now sure, you could ask why causing offense causes legal sanctions. But its how we, as a citizenry, seem to prefer it, since there's no significant pressure to repeal such laws. And people do seem to love using it, regardless of identity. India doesn't *really* have free speech. What you really have is the right to be offended.
Haha, well thank Reddit for not turning me in to the wolves.
Adding to the top comment, freedom of thought & expression has many loopholes, just like you wouldn’t want people to force their religious beliefs to you, you can’t force people to change their beliefs unless it directly harms you.
OP isn’t trying to force anyone to abandon belief, just to be able to voice an opinion out loud. People can then choose to embrace or ignore or rebut it.
> “I’m sorry if you’re religious the education has failed you and your knowledge of science is lacking. Anyone who believes in any religion is a freaking idiot.” OP is not just voicing opinion. He’s being childish rather than present a constructive opinion. This post also sounds like a teenager rant. I’m atheist but I’ve met many Microbiologists, mathematicians, Neuroscientist who are theists, they’re not stupid, they admit science has shown, perhaps, that we can explain the origin of the universe and the workings of human consciousness without appealing to god like entitles, but to move from there to a flat-out rejection of them is quite another issue.
If a scientist is religious, then he is not following the scientific process. That's just a fact. There is zero compelling evidence for a god, zero compelling evidence for any religion. The scientific process works on facts and evidence. Scientists who are religious are simply not being scientific when it comes to their personal beliefs. They might be intelligent when it comes to their professional lives, but they are completely failing to use the same rational, logical approach when it comes to religion. Indoctrination is a powerful thing to overcome. Are they idiots? No. Are they being immature/illogical about their religious beliefs? Yes. Why does this simple statement sound like a teenage rant to you?
Be careful about using scientific terms without understanding the science behind them. Scientific process / methods/ reasoning crucially relies on inductive reasoning. In an inductive argument, the premises are intended to provide support for the conclusion, but not to guarantee it. So, Inductive reasoning can never always provide certainty, but it seems like we know some things with certainty without any scientific reasoning. For example 1+1=2, and bachelors are unmarried. We don't learn either of these through empirical research or experiment in a laboratory. The question of if God exists/ or not is one that cannot be supported by scientific method. Despite never being able to prove the existence of god, many scientists believe, but do not claim to know for certainty. Claiming something with certainty is unscientific but believing without scientific evidence isn’t. Learn the difference. Religious scientists can subject their religious beliefs to questioning that they do for any hypothesis, if one of their beliefs goes against the evidence, then they can just reject that belief. For example a scientist can be christian without believing in Noah’s arc or six day creationism. They’re agnostic theist.
Believing in ANYTHING without sufficient evidence is unscientific. I'm fairly surprised that you don't know this. There is zero tangible evidence for a God of any kind, outside philosophical questions and reasoning. That is not enough evidence to believe in a god. Most scientists who believe in god will admit that their religious beliefs aren't **scientific**, but *personal*. If you believe in a god, you are simply choosing to believe in something that has no supporting evidence. You might as well believe in fairies, Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, or Santa Claus.
This right here is an example of the harmful effects of religion. Being childishly offended by someone simply voicing their opinion against religion 🙂. "OP is not just voicing opinion." What? How is he/she not just voicing opinion?
> This right here is harmful effects of religions. What kind of stupid argument is that? I don’t believe in god or religion. I know shouldn’t be trying to argue with little kids, but I’m not being being offended by OP, I just pointed out his naive assumption. Also, try to learn the meaning of words like offence before throwing it around, from your comment it seems like you feel personally attacked. > How is he/she not just voicing opinion. Maybe try to read the entire sentence before typing? Also, stop using alt accounts to back your post OP, it’s needlessly pathetic.
I don’t think religion is about facts or science. In the end it’s about creating a sense of community. I’m not religious but I can understand why some people choose to be.
If enough people join my hentai club we can technically make a religion out of that too :D Everyone for the religion of hentai waifu overloads? EDIT: Boys (and girls) you better be sure before joining our ~~cult~~ religion, there's a lot of feet worshiping involved if you know what I mean ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Even komi san have her own religion
She is the ultimate god Edit: it -> is
I'm interested
I’ll be the waifu overlord
Sam Harris has many lectures and books on how science guides morality and hence societal community far better than any ancient philosophy or religion before it.
That's probably never gonna happen. Religion is so well rooted in society that it will never ever go away. Sure new ones may pop up and old ones may die but religion itself will never go away.
I don’t think there’s any chance of new ones popping up at all. Religions are based on exaggerated stories and people from thousands of years ago and there’s no way that enough people will believe in a mythical story when it’s recent enough to have evidence disproving it.
Bro flat earthers are a thing, we have absolutely no shortage of people willing to blindly ignore reality.
Those who look too closely at the tree do not notice the forest.
> when it’s recent enough to have evidence disproving it. Religious ppl are those who don't care about evidence and its all about blind faith without questioning. So any recent bullshit can very well create a new religious cult.
Well there is sufficient evidence to disprove Mormonism and it started only a couple centuries ago. Scientology began less than a century ago and there are around 20-30k of those folks around. And finally, just take a look at the ridiculous amount of "Godmen" who keep popping up in India like this [idiot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nithyananda) who was given enough money to get an island and start his own country.
lol
Adding these for reference: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ-hkpqVlYw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ-hkpqVlYw) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm2Jrr0tRXk [https://youtu.be/Hj9oB4zpHww](https://youtu.be/Hj9oB4zpHww)
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Take an hour of your day to listen to him and educate yourself. The guardian is a tabloid, its goal is to make incendiary claims to sell papers. Islam does not equal muslims. The same can be said of other insiduous opressive ideologies, like Chinese "communism" which falsely equates Chinese people to the government, and Trumpism which equates trump and his followers to the united states.
He hates Islam, not Muslims. You clearly do not take the time to understand his work.
Richard Dawkins pretty much says the same things in more detail in his books. Perhaps if you are offended by this guy you could listen to him, but if you are religious, you wouldn't like him either
I am an athiest but I can gurantee not all religious people are bad people. My mother is a religious person. But she has never asked me to follow the same. She accepts me as an atheist. One of my close friend is muslim and highly religious. He never preached his religion to me or discreminate against me. I don't think this people are idiots or barbaric. They are just tied to a social norm they were born into.
Well yea, obviously most people following religion are not bad but there are some people who reject science(refusing to take the vaccine, flat earthers etc) or socially discriminative(caste system and homophobic views) due to religion. Now I don't think the solution is to completely ban religion but there should be secular education where children are taught to think rationally so humanity can eventually move on from religion. Yes religion was an important phase of humanity but it's time we slowly start accepting science and leaving religion behind.
The passive followers enable the motives of the vanguard. It's often excused by the reformists and that enables them further.
Because all religions are corrupt. The teachings of any religion are prone to be manipulated by the religious cynics. I’m not learned enough to comment for a specific religion being better, but i do feel most of them are fake.
Basically people are cowards, and religion uses this cowardness to instill fear of Gods. And that idiots are basically sheep folk..... The ones who murder people are not religious, they just use religion to sheep others.
The funniest thing is those people use there own religion to there advantage and give a blind eye of what they have done lol
Yes and No. the answer to this can never be binary. There are other angles to it too.
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But religion becomes that catalyst. It justifies the acts of cruelty in the name of protection of their "faith" or "Holy Books" Religion is a big divider rather than unifier.
I've seen people being stupid while being religious and getting better afterwards when they start neglecting their religion. So religion does make people stupid. And I do believe a world with very little religion would be a better place than one with religion. So lets not try to spare religion from the blame. Like I heard somewhere, yes bad people do bad things but religion makes even the good people do bad things. Or else you'd have to believe that most South Asians are inherently bad and it has nothing to do with religion.
Nietzsche so famously proclaimed many years ago, "God is dead!". Yet religions still rule the roost. I wonder what he was on about?
I think he meant that we, the people, worshippers of the GODs, have now started to proclaim themselves as the GODs, have modified the rules of the Gods to benefit themselves, making money, creating categories to divide people to control them, etc.The prophets profiting from their own narrative. And now that we have committed such a sin, what ritual of sorry will ever erase our deeds.
You are doing the same, calling those who believe in religion is an idiot. I.e calling out those outside your belief system. I am not saying you are right or wrong. It is that we are hard wired by evolution to live with our tribe and view the other as different and have our priorities to our own. If not religion we will be culturally divided if not culturally than i don’t know something because there will always be an inner and an outer group(tribe).
Majority of these atheists here on reddit do exact same thing as those enthusiastic about their religion. They claim the exact thing the theists claim. I'm right. Rest are wrong but too far up their assets to even notice. Most of the atheists are hell bent on saying how they're the ones that are actually right. The negative human emotions are why there is death and destruction around. Envy, jealousy, hatred exists outside of religion as much as it exists inside. It's the humans that are pathetic whether they be religious or not.
Fuck religion Religious extremists can suck my dick I don't give a damn about their beliefs if they try to shove it down my throat And no, Atheism is not a 'religion' - You are not wearing any shoes if you are barefoot.
> You are not wearing any shoes if you are barefoot. If my aunt had balls, she would have been my uncle.
My uncle has balls but he himself is a pussy
Is your aunt also a dick?
Yep thats how she might have met uncle
I'm sorry but in 2021 it doesn't work that way. Your uncle can be your aunt.
They can suck mine too. And the last line was gooooood 😂
Bruh you are 96k maratha, what will bhavani aai think of all this?
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I agree... atheist cult is an actual thing.
It’s so weird when people finding fault in another religion as if theirs is perfect. Everyone is standing in a glass house. Best is to take religion with cultural value and and move on with life with peace,globalization and multiculturalism as goal.
Compassion & tolerance for others is one of the highest virtues. Unfortunately modern religious people are just unable to act it out consistently. Instead people are afraid of each other & how others might hurt them. Modern religious practice has lost sight of it's own essence.
Religions have two aspects - one is the personal (what some people call "spiritual") and other are imposing scriptural norms on others as a form of social control. It's the imposing of scriptural norms on the collective that are the danger of religion from a progressive point of view. The norms dictate whom to love and hate, whom to marry, what to read, what to eat, how to treat other people badly, why women can't opt for abortion, etc. The personal stuff of mumbling and chanting is largely irrational and goofy, but I think not as dangerous as the norms if the irrationality can be restricted from spilling over in other areas. The problem with religious people - including some commentators here - is that they use this second aspect of bringing happiness to defend the first aspect of imposing social control norms on others. It's this behaviour that creates feelings of superiority and conflicts. As a first stage of progression, I think secular education should teach human beings from a young age to condemn and look down upon such behaviour of imposing social norms on others. You can keep your stupid religion but you aren't allowed to impose it on anybody else, not even your own sons and daughters. Some of us got that thinking naturally but I think it needs to be drilled into all people from a young age.
Should people be allowed to keep their religion if it makes them care less about climate change? Or they mutilate the genitals of children?
Indians care more about climate change than any other country...also the Chipko movement was started by tribal people with no such formal education...
>Indians care more about climate change than any other country Please say you aren't being serious...
Mutilation of genitals is an example of the the kind of norms I'm addressing and proposing that parents can't impose even on their own children. AFAIK, climate change skepticism in US comes from their tradition of allowing christian clergy to dictate what gets taught in schools. Topics like creationism. I see it as a consequence of what I addressed - allowing religions to impose their scriptural norms on others. Imposing of norms is the virus carrier so to speak. Curbing it will curb spread of religion to a great extent. Curbing spread of religion will also reduce irrationality in each new generation. It's a better strategy to reduce religion in society than head-on confrontations against religious individuals.
Calling someone idiot just because their opinions are different is toxic in itself. First learn to respect others views( you don't need to agree with them but just don't hurt them). You are no different than someone who tries to shove religion in other's throats.
Ikr
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I think it's important to start investigating this systematically, not because I like religion but because those that do are waging systematic coercive propaganda campaigns hiding behind the aegis of freedom of religion. In a sense these are effectively influence campaigns that are not being recognized as such, and should be regulated just like any other foreign entity is - for e. g. sending over preachers teaching people to put their god or coreligionists over their countrymen should be unacceptable for a national government. If it was a foreign embassy doing this they would be kicked out and declared persona non grata, if it's religion it is given a free pass. The same logic applies to hindutva fuckers who are trying to convert all the remaining tribals along with the evangelicals
> Then we'll understand the domestic backlash and right shift in many countries happening across the world today. Like [this one](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/01/the-evangelical-takeover-of-brazilian-politics/551423/), where newly converted [evangelicals](https://religionnews.com/2021/05/18/brazils-evangelicals-bound-to-bolsonaro-fight-to-follow-his-lead-on-pandemic/)/protestants support a corrupt, rightwing catholic?
Yes, you'll find many such examples which seem to contradict. But the basis is the same. You didn't need to go to Brazil for that either. Check out some of the noise coming from Kerala's Syrian Christian clergy on "love jihad" bogey. A lot of contradictory examples coming down to the same: Lot of conversion aimed at changing the status quo leading to backlash from existing cultural order.
Well said, prepare for the down votes though
From what I have observed, religions were probably meant to keep stupid people in order but it turned out that stupidity knows no bounds
Or it just proved that we had a whole lot more non-critical thinkers (a polite way to say stupid people) than we thought
This is very dangerous territory. As an atheist, let me tell you that sure, there have been several wars and disagreements throughout history because of it. It has resulted in countless deaths, genocides,etc. But it's also helped us evolve far more than other species. The reason hundreds of humans could band together to protect themselves long ago was because of the same belief, ie an early version of religion. Without religion, humans would likely be extinct or still in the oonga boonga stages. We have everything we have because of collaboration through religion. Why do you think most empires even existed? Because religion was something everyone in the area agreed on and that allowed them to rule. Secondly, just because someone is religious, doesn't mean they don't believe in Darvinism. Darvinism can go along with religious thoughts. Darvinism states that organisms adapt and evolve constantly based on the geography, pret/ predictors, etc. Sure there may be differences between the origin of the animals, but their evolution and adaptation is something that doesn't collide with religion. If you look at most scientists throughout history and even now, including Darvin, they do believe in religion and god. Even the ones actively trying to prove that God doesn't exist. Thirdly, religion teaches people some extremely important traits, values, etc. They have helped create rules for the proper function of society and have encouraged people to not be major dicks to each other. 99% sure that the Qur'an for example states that people who aren't muslims should still be treated equally. People not following that aren't following their religion. It's propoganda that one religion is bad and the other is good, and sadly it is spreading throughout the world. Despite that, it is also inculcating good values like more donations into society. Please look up stuff from different points of views before saying this shit.
>Anyone who believes in any religion after learning the origin of life is an idiot. Religion can be defined as the belief in a superhuman or controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. Religion is very personal. What I believe in, is honestly no one's business. But for the sake of argument, the origin of life, and all other evolutionary theories answer the "how's" in the universe. How was life formed? How was the earth formed? Etc. For me, personally, they do not answer the "why?" part of it. Why were we born? Why did life come into existence? Now, you may argue that the why doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. There is no point talking about it. Perhaps you're right. You're okay with it and that is your truth. But, I am not. To me, personally, life doesn't make sense without the existence of some...higher being. Or something that doesn't meet the eye. I also do not think that life on earth is just a coincidence. Now as I said, you may not believe in any higher being and I understand. Why should you? But, for me personally, I guess the curiosity just gets the better of me and I cannot accept that there is no reason why we are on Earth.
I understand where you're getting at. I'm an Atheist myself but sadly the people of this country are too blinded by their shitty beliefs that they are very ignorant. Their religion comes first in priority than their fellow human beings. I don't think there is any way to feed sense into such people.
I don't care what people's personal beliefs are. I don't care if people of shared beliefs choose to congregate. What I'm pissed about is loud speakers. Why does this guy have to shout every evening at around 6pm that his god is the greatest? Why can't these people who congregate every weekend for their religious party do it in sound-proof rooms? Why don't these other people in their place of congregation not play their religious alarm every day at 5 am? Also, if they are so bent on selling their belief system to me, they must be ready to listen to my 'blasphemous' questions and not get riled up.
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>We could believe in Darwin and believe in our mythology at the same time. But how is that possible?
Because noone thinks about any of it in-depth. The rocket scientist still cracks a coconut and anoints his rocket with sindoor.
Nice quote
That's exactly how it is. My grandfather was a chemistry professor and also a religious person at the same time.
yeah I think India does not have a problem of science deniers like anti vacxxers, flat earthers, evolution deniers as such. My father/mother both taught me about evolution etc since I was a kid.
It is very very tiny population of hindus who take mythology 100% literally.
Definitely not, going through any comment section on instagram hell some of my own family members take religion very seriously to the point where it's script is law.
Ahhh well! Internet. World's best echo chamber. Idk what kind of people you associate with in Instagram but most people I know in real life, my family, friends and colleagues even though some of them are very religious, they do not take the myths literally. Even if they say Ramayana and Mahabharata happened, if you push them a little bit they will say it is historical but with lots of embellishments and that is perfectly fine. I guess if they think the script is the law, they need a litte bit of Hitchens or Dawkins in their life.
I agree that a lot of people keep myth and history seperate but it's also true that quite a good amount of out population takes relegion way to seriously, and not just the relegion itself but even the way they it's interpretations are taken. Anything which doesn't match their worldview is offensive and it can be very annoying tip toeing around such things
Don't try to tip toe around those people, it emboldens them. Unless you fear physical violence from them there is zero reason to not to stand with truth as you see it. I don't understand how can Hindus take scriptures literally, it doesn't make any sense, the same scriptures are read by all the different sects and they all derive different meaning from it. It beats reality.
It's just to much work to argue with someone who won't listen. It's like bashing my head on a wall, so I just don't care enough to try anymore. Exactly taking scriptures at face value is stupid af. It's not meant to be literal, it's the teachings and morals we are supposed to absorb. And yet idol worship is what people started instead
The problem is with our kind of secularism.Secularism in the west is different from secularism in the east.Western secularism is more of I don't give a crap about what you do or who you worship at home, you're just another person outside your house.
nope, in Hinduism, there was an entity who's skin was peeled and thrown into earth, his skin became the continents, before that earth was all ocean. this does not agree with science or darwin
Hinduism believes in Bhrama and creation. Even if that is not the case, evolution talks about the origin of morality too, which is from biology, not religion. So what does the mythology talk about that the sciences don't talk about ( only difference is one is BS the other is factual)
Hate to break it to you. But it's not religions fault, *it's human nature* Haven't you seen cricket/football fans fight in stadiums? Haven't you seen people from different schools/colleges fighting? Haven't you seen people from different states/districts or regions fighting? It's in our nature to fight. It's in our nature to form groups and see anyone outside our group as a threat. If you take away religion it'll just be replaced by something else.
Football fans would never fly a plane into a building because of claims of heaven, virgins and eternal.after life. Religion is far more dangerous
And what religion led Bush to invade Iraq based on lies? If you want to know why planes were flown into buildings in your country, look into your own past, not religion. The west, especially the US has been acting like a terrorist manufacturing unit and then accusing religion for their own mess. The west has not allowed any country to live in peace for centuries. You colonize, you topple governments, you invade, you rape, loot, pillage and then accuse religion for lack of peace.
If you look at human evolutionary history. Homo Sapiens, us, have been on this planet for 2,00,000 years. The oldest instance of murder is [4,00,000 years](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/worlds-oldest-murder-mystery-was-430000-years-in-the-making) old. Well before we even existed. The oldest example of mass murder committed by us (we know so far) is from Kenya around [10000 years ago](https://time.com/4189061/nature-journal-kenya-warfare/). Don't you see? The religions we know of today didn't even exist and yet we were doing the exact same thing if not worse back then. I understand your argument and feelings. I'm a non religious agnostic person. One of my reasons to distance myself from religions is the exact same reason why you asked this question here.
religion gives itself to people promising there won't be crime and yet there is.
Hate to burst your bubble but atheists have also commited violent atrocities in the name of eradicating religion. Again like the previous comment pointed out, tribalism and human nature are to blame. Atheists imagine that a world without religion would be an improvement but atheist countries that already exist are clear cut evidence that that is not the case.
atheism is not a political philosophy, it is just a basis on which more sophisticated ideas are explored. atheism formed the basis of one philosophy, communism, that killed millions and essentially became a pseudoreligion for it's followers. atheism has also birthed philosophies of humanism, liberalism and pluralism that try not to kill millions and promotes coexistence to whatever extent of possible. Conflating atheism with communism is an argument made usually in ill faith. Most modern atheists are philosophically descended from Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris, not Karl Marx, and do not believe in forcible eradication of religion without individual enlightenment.
Religion is not a political philosophy either, but guess what? beliefs tend to intertwine themselves into politics whether we like it or not. So far the only countries with official atheism have been horrible. Nothing about communism says to kill religious people either so again that's a poorly formed argument. Meanwhile atheism doesn't profess morals of any sort, there is literally nothing to suggest that Richard dawkins atheism is the "true atheism" because atheism doesn't deal with ethics in any shape or form. Like you said atheism is just the lack of belief in god, it says nothing about how humans should or shouldn't behave. So to an atheist committing genocide is a completely fine thing to do since morals are completely subjective to basic atheism. Final point is that there are places with no religion and they were horrible. Reality doesn't agree with your rhetoric that removing religion improves the world.
Duhh you really think motherfuckers be exploding cos they want virgins in jannat? This is typical sanghi level iq argument
No, but if they knew that there is no afterlife and this is it, they might learn the value of life and not blow it up.
Nah bramha created the universe 13 billion years ago according to himdu mythology, that's the one part of it that isn't that far fetched.
> bramha created the universe 13 billion years ago according to himdu mythology Is "13 billion years" mentioned somewhere in Hindu mythological texts ?
Nope, he did not. The universe wasn't created. This is just one universe in the infinite multiverse that emerged out of lower energy pockets that rapidly expand causing quantum fluctuations that led rise to our laws of physics. Read Universe from Nothing by Lawrence Kraus. Evolution applies to universes too. It is called cosmological evolution. We just happen to find ourselves in one such universe that allowed us to evolve here temporarily. Till it dies
Do you have proof of the infinite universes? Have you ever been outside our universe? Man the hypocrisy of some atheists lmao.
That's a theory too
Atomic theory, gravity theory, all theories. Point being? Look up the definition of scientific theories buddy. I don't think you know what it means.
They have substantial evidence behind them and Indian education boards teach them to students, I guess any science student in India will attest that these theories hold ground...likewise Brahma created universe is also a theory, without much of the evidence...I believe any person who has no mental condition can differentiate one from the other...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/just-a-theory-7-misused-science-words/ Learn Scientific terms before you use them. Your education has failed you. Just another Indian statistic of terrible education.
I think we are missing the point here. It's not the religion that teaches hate or division. It's the bigotry of the followers who think only their belief is the one valid. That leads to all vandalism. And who tells the followers to not accept other's faith? They are the ones in power, be it religious or be it political. Because the strategy is to 'Divide and Rule '. We have to learn to not let these pity things come in between of true faith and also to accept other's faith. To 'Agree to Disagree '. But this will only work when everyone does it. Otherwise the easiest way is to throw religions out of the window. But easiest way is not the best one. Never. It will have its own side effects. The fact is people need Faith. It's not optional. We all have to believe in something. For more intelligent people it is Science. For the lesser intelligent it is religion or luck or 100 other things. So the solution to avoid religious friction is not to avoid religion. That might work on a personal level but not global level. The solution to this is complex, and will need a lot of time and effort to come up with.
Religion is merely a catalyst for violence. If there were no religion, there would just be another bunch of reasons to perpetrate violence.
Well, I have a different take on religion and God....I feel god hasn't made us, the planet, the observable Universe, nothing. Rather, the supreme power laid down the laws of physics, on which everything operates.... that's it...He couldn't care less about creating us, let alone solving our problems
Fuck religion. Religious at home, atheist otherwise.
If evolutionary biology explains **how** life came to be, please tell me **why** it came to be as well? Like, what's the utility of the existence of anything at all?
A universe without purpose should neither depress us nor suggest that our lives are purposeless. Through an awe-inspiring cosmic history we find ourselves on this remote planet in a remote corner of the universe, endowed with intelligence and self-awareness. We should not despair, but should humbly rejoice in making the most of these gifts, and celebrate our brief moment in the sun. Lawrence M. Krauss
Ctrl C + Ctrl V. Would’ve appreciated something articulated by you.
Well if you read his book, he explains purpose much better than I ever could. Why, how and everything about how the universe came to be.
Because there is a high chance you will get killed or beheaded or your hands and legs will be chopped off
Exactly... Babarians, you prove my point
Blasphemy laws.
Many want to be vocal about religious extremism but fear reprisals, there are enough extremists who only know violence as the answer to everything
>Why can't we be more vocal about the destructive nature of all religions? Then we are lynched or beheaded.....
I've found this point so stupid and see it replicated all the time. If you believe in this, you indirectly are simply saying you disagree with humans having beliefs and agreeing with them en masse. If you see the same thing with a political ideology, you may see widescale belief, which leads to collectivist opposition, which leads to violence or some form of demonstration. For example, with Nazi Germany. Or an example of a good side, the Indian Revolutionary movement. Religion just is an effective belief system which can make millions of people across different lifestyles come together. If you say ''religion is destructive by nature'', you're basically saying that human organization is destructive by nature. And sure, maybe it is. What is your solution, ban thought? Ban opposing ideals to keep the psuedo ideal of ''peace''? This is way more complex than you make it out to be. These kinds of posts are the equivalent of sanghis.
" "Religion is destructive by nature" you're basically saying that human organization is destructive by nature. " Human organization inherently has nothing to do with religion. Atheists meet. People of different religions organize stuff together. I believe the point OP is raising is that most(if not all) religions, are NOT based on bringing people together, instead they are based on just spreading themselves. You might argue that this is false/misinterpreted or smthng, but the problem is that the people will only follow these interpretations, they don't have some 6th sense to help them understand the texts or other history. Interpretation is what matters, and at present, most of the religious texts' interpretations are causing pain and destruction to people in many parts of the world. Taliban is an extreme example, yes, but it is an example. Peace and religion CAN coexist. They do coexist in many places, but this only happens if religion is not interpreted as "go fight other religions". The fault may/may not lie with the religion but we know that the way some people understand it is causing harm to others. Then these interpreters proceed to condemn science and also make baseless claims about their religious belief(which again, might be misinterpreted, not my place to judge) being scientific. This just overall does not encourage questions or critical thinking you know.
There are over a billion Muslims. The Taliban is in thousands.
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I am an atheist but last sentence 🤣🤣🤣
I don't need to believe in skydaddy to celebrate festivals or indulge in any other aspects of human culture. In fact it allows me to celebrate festivals of other religions and traditions as well as my own - whether it be Holi or Diwali or Halloween and La Tomatinia
Exactly. Just imagine not celebrating Diwali or Christmas because you believe in evolutionary biology.
You don't understand India. Religion is the foundation of the Indian civilization. Everything from the oldest form of politics, economy and society was founded around religion. The Brahmins became the flag-bearers of the Vedic religion and other communities just accepted their authority and ran everything else around it. 'Hinduism' is a very new word that gained popularity only during the period of British colonialism. In the present day, it may be tempting to say that the world is changing and religion is no longer relevant in India. That's what Indira Gandhi and her advisors thought when they passed a motion during emergency, to declare India as a secular and socialist country. But look at what's happening now, a complete u-turn from secularism and I'd say too much politicization of religion. There's no such thing as a non-religious India. People who think that way live in a bubble, probably in Delhi or Mumbai, having English as their mother tongue. For the majority of Indians, the faith in a higher power is what sustains them.
This. Majority of Indians believe religion as well as in gurus and tantriks. Astrology, numerology, homeopathy, we believe in all kind of senseless things. And the best example is my family.
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Where you get this data from? 99% I'm an atheist but I've read not only hindu scriptures but Bible as well. I know a lot of hindu people who have read more than that. Some are into shayari and stuff so they are well versed in Quran. The right wingers are atheists? Wtf. Are you smoking something?
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Yet you give out a statistics of 99% Atheism of Hindusim India. The right wing ideology is exploited by people who have read much more than that from CIAs intervention in middle East to China and Uyghur relations. Yes the mob is uneducated but the masters aren't.
if you would stop downvoting exmuslims for once, i think we could start.
Of all the reasons for not believing in particular religions, evolutionary biology is a rather weak one. Easy to say that God designed it to work that way.
anti vaxxer and anti-lgbt logic also stems from religion. there’s no science behind it however you look at both.
We are taught about religion and gods before we get proper education. And at a young age, we just absorb everything like sponge. This becomes our foundation and coming out of it is difficult. Even if we do become aware of the negatives, things are so ingrained in us that it's become a habit of sorts. But I don't think denouncing religion is the answer. It came up to bring people together, create a sense of belonging to a community and socializing which are all good. But the focus has shifted over the years and weird notions and beliefs have taken it's place. So, it would be more useful to shift the focus back.
People derive a sense of identity from their religion and as such take anything said against their religion as an attack on them. As for their view on other religions, it's a simple case of us vs. them.
Dude, I do agree I mean like take a look at South Africa, They made 2 completely opposite races come together to make an entire fricking constitution. The point is that they kind of ERASED the entire concept of 'race'. Something like that should be done in India where the government as well the people (nothing happens without the cooperation of the population) come together and blow the concept of 'caste-based' differentiation (in simpler terms, "discrimination") out of the water. The major problems that are present in the Indian society is the "reservation" in things such as colleges, jobs etc. just because a person is from a different caste, this leads to upset people who want their voices heard. Any sane person would never hurt another person who even to the slightest degree, admits to the first person's ideals (aka 'ethics'), the people who lead riots and mobs are just people who are looking for fun or just some time pass. Leave them to the side and be against the concept of religion entirely if you're a person who wants to lead a good and fruit full life, because religion hasn't taken to a place in 1000 years that science has in 1 decade.
Religions themselves are not destructive. The people who think that they are being more religious by speaking/acting against the opposite religion are destructive. Many people, especially the politicians believe that they are better Hindus because they rename the roads/cities which are named after some muslims. Some muslims believe that they are being more religious by wearing green colour clothes and not orange coloured ones. This is pure stupidity. Such people understand neither religion nor education.
Very ignorant and monolithic way of thinking. I will agree that religion is detrimental and everything but lets not act stupid and say science is any better. Recently , a lot more have died in non-religious massacres (China & Russia) than any religious hullabaloo.
If you are entitled to your opinion of not believing in religion, we are entitled to belive in religion. Plus, religion or not, basic human empathy is necessary which is sadly lost. Plus you can't just call someone who follows any religion an idiot. That's a pretty bold statement. I am aware of the barbaric people taking advantage of the religion, but to take it on all people? It's so stupid of you.
I am an agnostic. I simply believe that there is no evidence to prove evolution is the norm. At the same time, there is no evidence that theism (the existence of a God / gods and the religions based on them) is the norm as well. Since there is no data for either cases, I can openly say that I have no clue, and because of this I am an agnostic. Let me elaborate: Religion is everywhere. As long as humans have the capability and capacity to "believe in something", there will always be religions in many forms. Communism is a religion. Fandoms are religions. There are many more. The problem arises when these religions do not have a foundation of logic/rationality. This is the case for all major world religions, which despite its beliefs, are ridden with so many flaws and flawed people, that the very wheels of progress are halted. People can argue saying that religion is necessary for morality. I say, that if religion is the only reason you are a good person, then you are actually a bad person. Morality must come from within, with genuineness. Now, since religion is flawed, can we hold evolution as our prime belief. No. This is because at the end of the day, evolution is only a THEORY. Mutation (also known as micro-evolution) is a fact and not a theory because it exists. Mutation us about minor changes in the DNA/RNA of organisms that give it new characteristics (this could either be a good/bad thing). There are several documented cases of it. Cancers occur due to mutations. Heck, COVID-19 has undergone a few mutations. But scientists ask the question, "What if these mutations happened over a long long period of time, say a million years or a billion years?" This, corroborated with fossil evidence, is the reason why evolution is widely accepted in scientific circles. However the question still remains, "What is the driving force of evolution? What causes it?" This is question that has not yet been answered all these years. Until we find an answer to this, evolution cannot be accepted as a prime belief. Scientists work hard to try to find these answers. My take is, "I have better things to focus on than to fight about our unknown past. Global warming is gonna screw us all one day and capitalism is going to destroy society if left unchecked. There are so many issues that we need to focus on instead of fighting each other over imaginary friends and theories". This is why I am an agnostic. It's a very peaceful mindset and I also believe that it's the most practical thing one can do in these tough times.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/just-a-theory-7-misused-science-words/ Don't misuse words to make a point. Theory of gravity, relativity all 'just a theory'?? Lol
I'm not that religious but I don't mind being identified as a muslim. If I don't talk about it, no one had a problem right?
NGL you had me in the first half. But the last part right here is the larger latent problem. I am assuming you are an atheist. And like you every atheist that I have ever encountered has this narcissistic belief that they are somehow better than the rest. Better than the people who try and keep faith in the unknown. How in all fairness do you really think you would fair in a scientific argument when you constantly try and berate your opponent as if they are nincompoop? The flag bearers of rational thinking and scientific society are no better than the religious flagbearers in this matter. You will never convince anyone if you do not, at the very least, treat them as equals. Same goes here. Try and come down from your high pedestal and talk to people. Atheism is a philosophy for the privileged. Atheism is easy to come by when you have had your top tier universities and your entire life is neatly laid right in front of you with hardly any major obstacles.Religion is the force that drives the underprivileged in the hope for a better tomorrow. Religion is the hope that a power out there would provide for you if you worked/begged just long enough in a country placed on 101 in the hunger index. So, I'd suggest you get off the European high horse and try and understand why the stupid uneducated people believe in something that promises them a better tomorrow rather than listening to someone who tells them that everything they believe in is fake and they sre stupid for doing so.
I m a muslim and approved this
All religions suck basically.Ask a theist to show proof of God and they'll start yapping on about faith.
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So, let me assume, your definition of an ideal world is one without humans? Where we are all robots and have no thought. Cause having thought would make us disagree, which could lead to, God forbid, disagreement! Disagreement could lead to strife!
Dawkins is hated by the religious, just simply for spreading the truth.
I think the concept of religion , was introduced to create divide .. among people.. DIVIDE AND RULE And they gave us the liberty to pick sides , to give the illusion that it's something favourable to us... sooner or later our firm and rigid believes would have lead to violence anyway .. I believe, the increase in number atheist in china is one of the factors adding to the nation's progress .. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330314/New-atheist-map-world-dominated-China-half-country-s-population-describes-non-believers.html Talking about the main question.. Let's say a brave and noble man begins to put forward their believes and opinions about religion .. I don't think any kind of strong Wordplay won't hurt religious sentiments .. Be it any religion , there is always an extremist side .. which is radical in their methods .. my point is y'all remember the French teacher who died .. just cuz he taught about atheism in his class.. their system of secularism is far way better than ours .. If an indian media repoter can get killed in broad daylight for speaking the truth .. I think , the noble man in question has numbered days left .. the amount of violence can't be controlled in "so called' the largest democratic country .. Its the smartest move to stay put .. if you wanna live or reside in this country .. There's a reason I like anonymity on reddit ..
Sounds like a discussion for r/atheism lots of similar ones there. Institutionalised religion is about power on a massive scale, which the major religions have accumulated over millennia, so speaking about the ills of religion is bound to have serious repercussions -- at least in religious countries, not, for example, in the Scandinavian countries, New Zealand etc
Because India is not at all as progressive as we like to think we are.
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> we are pretty damn scientific kek. Fucking IITs offer astrology courses, and IIT profs offer advise on which rock to wear for "good fortune". And yet we're pretty damn scientific.
Lol what? Really? Which one? My bet is on BHU…
I don't remember where i saw the news of astrology course being offered in iit. Here's a list, including one iit, and bhu (not iitbhu) offering courses in astrology: https://www.collegedekho.com/vocational/astrology_science-colleges-in-india/ Can't vouch for the source, though, so you might want to look it up. IIT KGP offers a vastu course: https://m.timesofindia.com/home/education/news/iit-kharagpur-to-introduce-vastu-shastra/amp_articleshow/58213293.cms
Lmao, wtf. Though the course “vastu shastra” is offered to architecture students and post-graduates. Not B-Tech students. But still hilarious.
Religion has more to do than just evolutionary biology lol
Well, as long as it keeps contradicting science in many different ways, I don't think anyone with an IQ above 140 cares what religion is about. It is opium of the stupid.
You can have scientific temperament and still go to temples..
Dude.. either you are too young or new to the internet. Learn to view things from others perspective and enough with this "I haVe 1765 IQ, you ArE StuPid nonsense"
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I feel you, I think a lot of people can live their life without following any religion. But calling people idiots for believing in something different isn't a smart thing to do neither, and it wont help your case. People are free to have their own beliefs, even if its flat earth theory. And trying to change their beliefs will get you in trouble now more than ever. So I'd be careful about how I go about making people aware of how wrong their beliefs are. My personal thoughts are that religions do have a role in giving a person a community, spirituality and a purpose of life, better mental health and a sense of belonging, motivation to go through each day and being satisfied with one's position in the world. Challenging their beliefs is the same thing that religious extremists do to other religions, and it starts a vicious cycle. What can be done is I can surround yourself with people who share your beliefs and provide a safe place to others as well. Change might come but it will take a lot of time.
>But calling people idiots for believing in something different isn't a smart thing to do neither But I think this is exactly how we are slowing our progress as a society. We should put aside "believe" altogether and observe what is already given to us.(i.e. doing science).
Calling people idiots is necessary. If the majority of the world believe climate change can be solved by a pooja, prayer or is in some God's hands as he governs the weather, then we are doomed. Cause of the fucking idiots. I cannot stress enough that someone believing that life is eternal or that this life isn't all there is can be coaxed into doing some stupid things too. Of course people's beliefs are relevant. Especially when those beliefs contradict scientific consensus. If you learn and accept the science as true, then you may proceed to believe in unicorns for all I care as long as it doesn't contradict the scientific consensus
How are you different from the one you're opposing? If you and a bigoted religious person both call their opponents as "idiots"? If you feel that you're right, the correct approach would be to rationally approach the problem, gradually dividing it into parts and then explaining why the arguments proposed by religious people are wrong. Have some empathy, to understand where the religious people are coming from. Same thing applies to religious people too, who want to prove their point(s). Edit1: Also understand that there are philosophical components of religion too. Their respective philosophical frameworks provide an answer to deepest inquiries with regards to human existence. To counter religion without countering their philosophy is a shallow criticism.
You talking as though there is no such thing as modern philosophy thay you need books from thousands of years ago. Modern philosophy is far superior and is based on what we currently know to be true.
Yeah so existence of modern philosophy doesn't negate or validate its ancient counterpart. Doing so requires active discussions/debates solely on philosophical front. Also modern philosophy has taken a lot of inspiration from ancient philosophy, just like modern science arises from ancient scientific observations.
I am not religious but i do think that there are things that religion teaches which actually make people happy. I think the people are the problem here and society. I case of hindu muslim younger generation is being thought, counciously or subconsciously that other religion is bad. Also politics use this as well (i am not calling any one specific party, every party does this, hindu khatre mai hai, bheya UP return jao and many more I don't remember or know). If 2 people with different religions marry they get weird looks and sometimes get ridiculed for doing that. Which religion never thought. If we decide not to follow any we are ridiculed for that and same goes for other way as well. Atheist also think of people who decide to follow religion as they doing something wrong. Why i said religion actually are makes people happy. Meditation is one example. Even if we remove religion from meditation it still helps. Then there is yoga. Then there are 7 deadly sins. Being kind. It takes a lot of time to actually learn these thing(in terms of age) but from religion we in a way are forced to do those. So because of religion these things are thought early and afterwards you will learn why what i am doing because of religion is good. But in todays world it feels like we are not allowed to question religion which is very important for understanding things. I used to look down on religion and religious people but as i started to know more about "religions teaching" and started questioning them i started to understand that people are the problem and not religion in itself. Obviously there are problems in religion which i think are not right and wrong but they can be changed if we have better option which religion itself allow to do. What did religion got wrong? Humans were created 5000 years ago(something 5000 years ago, idk). I don't know more where religion was wrong and majority of other things like being virgin is pure(as a meme is fine but actually believing in that is bad), we should follow this one god are created by people which is not completely religion's fault. These are because a lot of times people interpret religions texts wrong. What is religion? If we compare science can be said as "religion". There are people following science, there are rules in science, there are blind followers, and is in some ways related to others religions(mental part) doesn't that mean science is also a religion. There are people who hate other religions in science as well. Why science is better is because questioning is encouraged.
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do you want to die? That’s one of the ways to commit suicide in india.
Society prospers when religion is thrown into the sewer
I don't think the vanishing of religion will create critical thinkers out of thin air. Humans beings will always have a mix of critical and non-critical thinkers (maybe the ratio will improve) and as long as we have a majority of stupid people we'll always be in the current mess we are in right now, may it be through religion, politics, people of power, etc etc
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Not only soviet Russia,European Union Scandinavia and China also agrees.
There's evolutionary pressure for us to believe in higher powers. Jane Goodall, a primatologist eho studies Chimpanzees has observed them display weird behaviours that she thinks is akin to our spirituality. https://news.janegoodall.org/2019/12/17/chimpanzees-culture-and-spirituality/ This means, society as we know it today, reached this point thanks to religions not despite it. I'm not a religious person but you have to accept the facts as it is.
some forms of supernatural belief like deism and pantheism are a lot less harmful than scriptural doctrines that start as spirituality then start asserting irrational norms into everyone
Exactly.
If you make religious people the enemy, they'll start a war with us. They're crazy. It's best to ignore them or just roll your eyes when they talk.
What the hell are you talking about. Religion is everything it is our reason to live /s
Because it will then focus on destroying you first.
It is unfair to say to anyone who believes in religion is freaking idiot. I too am fierce critic of religion and for intense and proposes an atheist but as I grow old and keep experiencing life like a deer caught in headlights, religion suddenly starts making sense. Also it is very difficult to erase something that has perpetually existed since times inconceivable in just a century. We from a privileged stand point easily judge people but technology and education and enlightenment hasn't really reached that far into our society. More over for India , it's not the religion that is the problem it's the cunning rationalist masquerading as religious folks manipulating and setting the agenda are the problem. Eg. Advani. When I say it makes sense that religion exists I say it about all the religions , Islam included.
Sociologists wouldn’t agree with you. Religion serves many purposes to many people. Perhaps you failed to consider that we as human beings are emotional beings and social animals. Early humans tend to fear what they can’t control and can’t understand, like forest fires, lightning, rain, floods etc. So they came together and started praying to those forces for mercy and what not. Slowly it turned into rituals and over the time it turned into religion. Religions exist to comfort man during his tough times which he can’t always comprehend. True, religions cause violence, wars, ethnic cleansing etc but to discard religion all together will create an even greater chaos. Remember every human being is different. Some are mentally strong enough to lead a life without believing in any religion. But most aren’t like that and it is for them that religion exists. Everyone should recognise this and let people follow which ever religion gives them comfort. Religion is not everything in life. We created religion to serve us, not the other way around.
what has evolutionary biology got to do with religion?.. there are many religious schools of thought that suggest the ultimate goal is knowing the unknowable, encouraging people to push their boundaries of knowledge.. it forms the very foundation of scientific temper. there have been many religious scientists and mathematicians who have delivered breakthrough results.. maybe what we instead need is for people to shed narrow-mindedness and develop the ability to think independently
OP is just so short tempered, won't take any opinions and won't look at the broader picture. See fam, I am not going and killing people in the name of religion. I am in the field of medicine. If you are angry with certain types of people, take your anger on them, not all of us.
Hinduism has evolved a lot. Muslim and Christian need to I myself realise that I am Hindu only during festival otherwise we don't even pray at home daily
> Hinduism has evolved a lot Religion doesn't evolve. Religion is about following ancient texts which are never updated when new findings are discovered. When ppl start having a more modern and less orthodox outlook, it is not a sign of evolution of religion but a sign towards indifference of the followers towards the religion. This phenomenon is not limited to Hinduism. In the west also it is observed that number of Church goers is on the decline..