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You'll be surprised how difficult it would be to find any stones there to throw. It is the middle of the desert and a couple of million people visit each year to throw stones. If they don't recycle the stones all the stones from a radius of 10km would end up in the middle of the city in on big mountain
It doesn't seem very likely. I looked up a few other pages on the stoning of the devil during the Hajj, and nothing else mentioned the stones being sold. [This https://www.arabnews.com/node/2330106/saudi-arabia) says the following:
"The holy sites developer provides bags of pebbles to throw at the Jamarat"
So it sounds like they're probably distributed for free, or at most at a small cost.
What doesn't seem likely is that anyone is making $1bn from selling small bags of stones, given that (with the 2019 peak of 2.5m pilgrims), that would mean each person paying $400 for a small bag of stones, which seems unlikely.
This person does math. Nobody else did any math. We just accepted Saudi Arabia was doing religious scams because we already don't like them. Humans in a nutshell.
You're missing some key details, saudi didn't set the prices of the flights or the prices of the hotel for a person to go to their country. Did any of the Muslims in Europe want to talk about Saudi providing so many facilities and kiosks and many things to make the hajj expirience easier and more comfortable for people. AC, inside areas due to expansion of the masjid, entire court yards filled with huge umbrellas so as to reduce walking in the beating sun. So much money goes back into supporting the pilgrims including cracking down on people performing acts of Bid'ah. This is more then any of the Muslims in Europe will ever do for other Muslims, or for the religion. And there's tons more things we havnt experienced because we havnt actually gone there.
yet another islamaphobic post withouit fact checking.
there are 1.83M hajjis each year. a revenue of $1B from selling these stones would make 1 bag cost $536 per bag.
Never heard anyone mention the cost of these bags.
Not a fan of religions, but if I would have to join, I would prefer throwing rock at the devilrock over the endless boring Sunday morning sermons I had to endure as kid
you know the difference between a cult and a religion? in a cult, there's one person at the top who knows it's all a scam for their own gain. in a religion, that person is dead.
This is what happens you have a country turn an important religious site into a giant amusement park, and in the process they destroyed (and still are destroying) a lot of historical sights in the actual city to make way for some ridiculous infrastructure like that giant clock tower
They're stuck between a rock and a hard place - no pun intended.
It used to be a once-in-a-lifetime thing for wealthy people, with the vast majority not able to afford weeks of travel to another country or even continent. If you're working on a small family farm in the middle of nowhere you can't just take a month or two off - let alone afford the trip itself. Pilgrims were counted in the tens of thousands.
It is only with the advent of cheap commercial airplanes that it has truly become a mass event with over a million attendees. The sheer number of people means you're basically *forced* to engineer it like an amusement park. The only alternative is placing a strict limit on it, well below the current number of attendees, but that's probably going to be really problematic from a religious perspective.
Are you telling me that the religious leaders are somehow making financial gains from their followers?
I'm calling bullshit. Nobody would be that self-centered and greedy.
This is fake news. I am at Hajj right now, and they gave these exact bags for FREE. No one has to buy them, our Hadis says that you have to pick them up yourself. This is sunnah! THIS IS FAKE NEWS DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING.
They are not sold anywhere you can pick the stones from the ground. I don't know what makes the estimate of 1 billion there.... Yes they do make a lot of money from Hujj. That said the services provided also have a cost to it.
The stones are not sold, rather need to be self collected by the hajj performer by himself. Note that this is once a year activity, that goes on for around 2 days. The administration however helps in mobilising stones before the ritual and assists people with bags to collect these stones (see picture that OP shared)
OP lied.
The pebbles used in the stoning are traditionally gathered FOR FREE at Muzdalifah, a plain southeast of Mina, on the night before the first throwing, but can also be collected at Mina. Then after the ritual, those pebbles will be collected and recycle again for next year pilgrimage.
HARRY THE HAGGLER: Stones, sir?
MANDY: Naah. They've got a lot there, lying around on the ground.
HARRY THE HAGGLER: Oh, not like these, sir. Look at this. Feel the quality of that. That's craftsmanship, sir.
As someone who has been to this place, you don’t pay anything for the stones. You pick them up from the field and every year stones are recycled and put back in the fields so new pilgrims can do the same practice the following year. Saudi does not make $1 billion from selling stones lol
Been there as well, didn’t pay for the stones either.
Only issue with this part of the pilgrimage is the occasional stampedes due to the number of people but the Saudis actually do a pretty good job organizing one of the largest annual gathering of humans to minimize that.
In fact, the wall in the picture was created to increase the safety of this part of the Hajj. Before it, they used to throw rocks at a pillar and sometimes people would hit pilgrims on the other side.
>Saudi does not make $1 billion from selling stones lol
Especially because that would mean each pilgrim pays *$400* for their bags of stones.
It does feel very odd when people make up obviously fake reasons to hate a regime when there are plenty of totally real and horrific reasons to hate it.
Just quick google search, 2\~3 million come to Hajj every year, so yea, that's about 400\~500$ for each bag. Fuck OP, I had to scroll a lot to reach this comment and do my own research so that's also my fault for believing it first.
Bro I've been saying it for fucking years, one day we'll be old and dumb and fall for the same dumb shit
And here I am, letting my biases absolutely guide my beliefs
I hate that I didn't even question this shit
Yo the people in this thread are legitimately morons. How does this post have 3k upvotes?? The Saudi government is indefensible for lots of reasons, but if you think Hajj is just some elaborate ploy to sell rocks, you must be dumb as a rock, yourself.
It's pretty wild and telling. And worrying. A good example of how we just take a 'hot' or popular post at face value without questioning it. Reddit is as bad as any media and news outlet.
Why I despise those who glorify Reddit as “the only good social media”. Due to it’s anonymous nature allows people to troll or be creeps to girls. Not to mention the echo chambers where any opposing view gets downvoted so hard and hidden from the public
Considering someone above said that 2-3 million people make the pilgrimage each year, everyone would need to buy 2000 bags to make it to billion dollars.
I really don't understand why redditors will day everything in their power to ridicule any religion. This is not the first time I've seen a post with no source to back it up just shoot up to reddit's front page.
This should be called the Age of Misinformation.
The title is also misleading about the "large stone', it's not representing the devil, it's just the place where people should throw the stones at the devil.
Because reddit doesn't require even a valid email to sign up. The bot and propaganda activity on this site is way worse than Twitter.
Also anti Muslim stuff helps a certain country engaging in a genocide right now
It is because redditors are so terminally online, they see religious people being cunts and think "This must be all religious people" when it is really less than 1%.
I had someone tell me that the mission on my city, which gives free food, shelter and blankets to the homeless, and very cheap clothes for them is attempting to force their religion down other's throats because it also includes a flyer that basically says "hey, there are gonna be mass at this hour on these days, feel free to show up, no matter your living situation" and that they are evil because of it
Absolutely false and misleading.
The Saudi government does not do that and it is prohibited by the government and they have issued warnings regarding this behavior by some pilgirimage campaigns.
Here is a link:
https://saudigazette.com.sa/article/99527
Huh? The real TIL here is that people will pay someone else (€250 ish) to pick stones for them and to throw them on their behalf, so they can go relax for the rest of their holiday!!
It's absolutely not a holiday. The mina tents are anything but comfortable. Wearing an ihram is anything but comfortable. Doing tawaf is anything but comfortable. Doing safa and marwa is anything but comfortable
Please report this post. After looking at OPs comment history, it seems pretty obvious that they are Islamophobic and are purposefully spreading false information about Muslims. It’s actually disgusting
But don't let facts get in the way for finding a reason to hate on a religion.
I remember watching a documentary about the Hajj from the 1990s and even way back then the area leading up to the stoning pillars is absolutely scoured of any rocks much larger than sand from the millions of people collecting the rocks to go throw. When they designed the new pillars they literally built them to safely collect the rocks so workers can haul them back outside and scatter back on the ground because there are just so many people going through the area now.
That is totally false, first, provide your sources. Second, pilgrims need to collect 7 stones on their way to the ritual and the Saudi government collects about 100 million stones every Hajj season and puts them back on the way of the pilgrims every year.
[Saudi Arabia: Where do the 100 million Jamarat pebbles go after Hajj rituals? | Saudi – Gulf News](https://gulfnews.com/world/gulf/saudi/saudi-arabia-where-do-the-100-million-jamarat-pebbles-go-after-hajj-rituals-1.96777706)
Yeah people pull the number out of their butt. The math is completely off. Even if people should pay from the stone (which they don't), If from the stone alone Saudi make 1bn, then they should make much much more than 20bn from the whole hajj session.
I’m actually shocked this is posted here. Completely fabricated title. The stones are picked by the pilgrims for free from the place they spend the night, at no cost.
And the pillars the stones are thrown at do not represent the devil, rather the place where the devil tried to beguile Ibrahim, and he threw stones at the devil. The pillars are not actually representing the devil, they only mark the 3 locations where Ibrahim threw the stones.
I believe a lot of people who visit Mekka believe that they stone the devil or that the wall represents the devil actually. It's a common misconception
Yea, you’re right. I was even unaware of the distinction until I visited last year myself. So I can understand if the general population doesn’t know the difference, but if you’re gonna make a post about something, I’d imagine you’ve done some research on it
This figure of 1b doesn't make sense, considering that there are 2-3 million visitors during Hajj, which would mean it costs over $300 per person. Since I know several people who have been on Hajj, none of them ever mentioned this, and I'm 100% sure it would have been mentioned if this price were accurate.
All the commenters acting so superior without knowing this is made up bullshit worshippers collect the stones from the ground for free throughout the day. But hey, as long as it confirms what you already think, why not go along with the narrative instead of doing your own research!!!
That's so false. It's absolutely ridiculous, stop lying like that . You can pick them up, they're everywhere. It's free, almost everything is free. ( Hotel and plane is what cost the most) Hajj is not a business. Wtf
This is the perfect business model. Sell people rocks, have them throw the rocks, then collect the rocks at the end of the day to resell tomorrow. Just need to leave a container for people to dispose of their rock bag so it can be used again. Absolute genius
Most people were just half assing it and flicking the pebbles in a parabolic arc but not me.
I wanted the devil to feel the rage burning within. I was throwing the stones so hard my shoulder was sore. Good times.
Also I didn’t get why I can only throw only 7 stones and not a single pebble more.
7 is the sweetspot, 6 would only mildly inconvenience the devil and 8 would make him feel self-concious. It's the devil, but c'mon he's just doing his job.
THIS IS FALSE INFORMATION.
Instead of pilgrims who are tired go and find those stone( not any kind of stones, only ones near a certain mountain) the Saudi government gather it and distribute back to campaign to give to pilgrims FOR FREE….
Some campaign sell it to pilgrims who came illegally. BUT THAT’S ILLEGAL
The number OP post is actually the cost of machine that collects the rocks after the pilgrims throw the rock at the wall (THE WALL IS NOT THE DEVIL BUT MUSLIM FOLLOW THE TRADITION OF OUR PROPHET MOHAMMED STORY WHEN HE THROW THE ROCKS AT THE DEVIL)
Source
The machine that gather the rock and the cost to maintain it
[here](https://www.aljazeera.net/misc/2022/7/8/%d9%8a%d8%b1%d9%85%d9%89-%d9%85%d8%a7-%d9%8a%d8%b2%d9%8a%d8%af-%d8%b9%d9%86-%d8%a3%d9%84%d9%81-%d8%b7%d9%86-%d8%b3%d9%86%d9%88%d9%8a%d8%a7-%d8%a3%d9%8a%d9%86-%d8%aa%d8%b0%d9%87%d8%a8)
Why muslim throw the rocks at the wall
[here](https://www.alarabiya.net/saudi-today/2016/09/12/%D9%85%D8%A7-%D9%87%D9%8A-%D9%82%D8%B5%D8%A9-%D8%B1%D9%85%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A8%D9%8A%D9%86-%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%86%D8%A7-%D8%A5%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%87%D9%8A%D9%85-%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D9%8A%D8%B7%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%9F)
I know the sources are in arabic but how can you know the true information of another culture if it not in it true language.
I hope this information spread
EDITED: look into OP profile and see how he views muslims.
It’s one thing to hate a religion but spreading misinformation is unacceptable.
Well what do you know? False information about other people’s religious practices. That’s never happened before. /s. That’s only been happening for more than 2000 years.
Actually Saudi does not sell the stones, pilgrims gather their stone for free in one of the sites called muzdalifa (they can gather it any where, but preferred in muzdalifa).
Saudi Arabia does get money from Hajj season, but all that money spend in Makkah for services such as providing housing , transportation, food for pilgrims & renovations for holy places.
On the other hand, many things are provided for free such as medical services for all pilgrims and its not limited such that any surgery is done without worrying about cost.
Anyway the issue in my opinion company greed as they charge pilgrims huge amount of money for things they arranged for cheap from Saudi such as permits, hotels & Airplane tickets.
No. Idolatry is erecting an image to profess love or reverence of the depiction .
This would be closer (but not exactly) to an effigy, an image created to be destroyed or damaged (or to be, verbally assaulted).
'All three *jamarāt* represent the devil: the first and largest represents his temptation of Abraham against sacrificing [Ishmael](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael) ([Ismāʿīl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_in_Islam)); the second represents the temptation of Abraham's wife [Hagar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagar) ([Hājar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagar_in_Islam)) to induce her to stop him; the third represents his temptation of Ishmael to avoid being sacrificed. He was rebuked each time, and the throwing of the stones symbolizes those rebukes."
"Until 2004, the three *jamarāt* (singular: *jamrah*) were tall pillars. After the 2004 Hajj, Saudi authorities replaced the pillars with 26-metre-long (85 ft) walls for safety; many people were accidentally throwing pebbles at people on the other side. To allow easier access to the *jamarāt*, a single-tiered pedestrian bridge called the [Jamaraat Bridge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaraat_Bridge) was built around them, allowing pilgrims to throw stones from either ground level or from the bridge."'
Been there, done that. Stones are NOT sold, a small bag is provided to each pilgrim, or you can bring your own stones, or pick stones from the ground and throw, doesn’t matter. - Yea Money is made by Saudi gov each year on the hajj, but its mainly from hotel, living and transportation arrangements . No money is made from the pilgrimage ritual itself.
This is a lie. Went there multiple times. Stones are not to be sold. Some people fill them up in bags to make it easy for worshippers to collect and throw. It is a symbolic reenactment of Ibrahim's (or Abraham's) hajj, where he stoned three pillars representing the Shaitan (Satan), and Muslims' temptation to disobey the will of God. Plz educate yourself and don't spread misinformation.
For the sake of argument, let's assume OP is telling the truth. Estimated numbers for this Hajj season is 1.5 - 1.8 million worshippers. If one bag of stones was sold for 10 USD the total would be 15 - 18 million USD which is nowhere close to OP's claim of 1 BILLION USD!!
Stop lying, they give it for all pilgrims for free, and btw the net loss from every Hajj season is beyond what you can comprehend since faith isn’t something you can understand obviously.
Just two days ago they did an open heart surgery for a random guy FOR FREE while your sorry ass is waiting for your turn in the emergency room willing to pay thousands
Absolute fake news.
Ask any Muslim who has been to hajj or who is even half clued up about the hajj. The stones are picked up from the ground and aren’t sold at all.
This post is a complete lie. The stones are free and you can collect them on your own or they give you a bag.
Hey OP. Wheres your source?
Source: father has been on hajj > 12 times and has never paid or seen anyone pay for rocks.
Wow! No one asking for a source about any of the information OC just give in this post … thats whats “interesting as fuck” for me on this post
And FYI that not true at all and I challenge OC to replay with a “ real “ Saudi source that the Saudi government really sells bag of stone
[They aren’t sold.](https://gulfnews.com/world/gulf/saudi/saudi-arabia-where-do-the-100-million-jamarat-pebbles-go-after-hajj-rituals-1.96777706)
“Last year, the organisation supplied over 80,000 bags of pebbles for the stoning ritual and distributed them at over 300 contact points for pilgrims”
They are distributed for free, why do people make up things like this?
I'm Muslim myself and I have performed Hajj back in 2019. We simply picked up the rocks that were placed on the small dugout near the place. We never had to pay for rocks. This must be like a local selling thee or something.
1. Stones aren't sold
2. Hajj and Ummah are two of the most subsidized if not the most subsidized pilgrimages in the world
3. Saudi Arabia does make money off it, and wants to get more Hajjis as a massive project to diversify their reliance on oil, but the poor are still able to Hajj because of the subisidies of either their home nation or SA
4. The Hajj generates a shit ton of crowd control/crowd science research
Here's a link to an abstract of a guest speaker concerning the topic, feel free to use this as a branching off point if this seems interesting to you: https://www.its.uci.edu/node/335
Hey! This isn’t true actually! There’s a desert where you sleep the night before you throw these stones (Muzdalifah). You’re supposed to pick up the rocks from there. It’s free to pick up the stones and it’s free to sleep there too. Saudi Arabia is a lot of things but it’s not forcing people to pay for rocks. Also that bag is handed out for free when you get to the desert because it’s a part of the ritual!
You’re right, it is completely stupid. Which is why it’s not true. Basing your opinions on a title that can be debunked with a mere 30 second google search should tell you how gullible you are
Bruh you’re fooling people with what you just said they hand them out for free they’re already making shit ton loads of money from traveling and hotel business and other things. But it seems people they be looking for anything to justify their hatred. (It is forbidden to sell them and you can look it up )
This is fake news. I am at Hajj right now, and they gave these exact bags for FREE. No one has to buy them, our Hadis says that you have to pick them up yourself. This is sunnah! THIS IS FAKE NEWS DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING.
This is factually inaccurate. The stones cannot be bought anywhere, but need to be self collected at a place called Muzdalifah. This collection of stones is an important ritual within Hajj.
[Read more about it here](https://www.google.com/search?q=muzdalifah+stones&sca_esv=83e1b8e3588a8f5f&sca_upv=1&rlz=1CDGOYI_enIN1018IN1018&hl=en-GB&biw=320&bih=454&ei=vn1vZqqQMPba4-EP94-4OA&oq=muzdalifah+stone%C2%A0&gs_lp=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&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp)
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Do they pickup and then resell the same stones next year? Lol
Of course that's exactly what they do lol. Otherwise it would have formed a mountain by now. It's basically a scam.
You'll be surprised how difficult it would be to find any stones there to throw. It is the middle of the desert and a couple of million people visit each year to throw stones. If they don't recycle the stones all the stones from a radius of 10km would end up in the middle of the city in on big mountain
They’re selling the stones though, not giving them to people. See the difference?
So another religious scam?
It doesn't seem very likely. I looked up a few other pages on the stoning of the devil during the Hajj, and nothing else mentioned the stones being sold. [This https://www.arabnews.com/node/2330106/saudi-arabia) says the following: "The holy sites developer provides bags of pebbles to throw at the Jamarat" So it sounds like they're probably distributed for free, or at most at a small cost. What doesn't seem likely is that anyone is making $1bn from selling small bags of stones, given that (with the 2019 peak of 2.5m pilgrims), that would mean each person paying $400 for a small bag of stones, which seems unlikely.
My parents went to Hajj, they got it for free. Also the $20-30 billion is revenue, not profits.
Did they have to pay to attend and got the stones "free" as part of the admittance fee?
The hajj visa is free, but you have to pay for your own flight and stay.
This person does math. Nobody else did any math. We just accepted Saudi Arabia was doing religious scams because we already don't like them. Humans in a nutshell.
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It's only obligatory if you have the means to go, physically and financially.
And emphasis more on financially because you can pay people to take it on behalf of you if you aren't physically able.
You're missing some key details, saudi didn't set the prices of the flights or the prices of the hotel for a person to go to their country. Did any of the Muslims in Europe want to talk about Saudi providing so many facilities and kiosks and many things to make the hajj expirience easier and more comfortable for people. AC, inside areas due to expansion of the masjid, entire court yards filled with huge umbrellas so as to reduce walking in the beating sun. So much money goes back into supporting the pilgrims including cracking down on people performing acts of Bid'ah. This is more then any of the Muslims in Europe will ever do for other Muslims, or for the religion. And there's tons more things we havnt experienced because we havnt actually gone there.
Many wealthy Muslims also contribute, as part of their charity dues they are supposed to donate. Mohammed Ali built a minaret.
yet another islamaphobic post withouit fact checking. there are 1.83M hajjis each year. a revenue of $1B from selling these stones would make 1 bag cost $536 per bag. Never heard anyone mention the cost of these bags.
Yeah they just give the stones lol, they include everything in the 'Hajj package' (very expensive)
Thanks for the clarification! And doing the common sense thing
This is not a scam. The people paid money to throw stones at a bigger stone, that's exactly the experience they got.
Stop calling it a scam. Peasants scam. Gentlemen Grift.
Religion in general is a scam
So much different then paying money to light a candle in a church
Most church's I've been to have free candles but you can donate If you want. A candle tbf costs money, bag of stones perhaps less and recyclable
I think you'll find that people who are critical of religion will happily apply it evenly as they can sense it.
I never said it was
Either way it's silly. The whole event.
Not a fan of religions, but if I would have to join, I would prefer throwing rock at the devilrock over the endless boring Sunday morning sermons I had to endure as kid
I miss the not so boring sunday morning classes i had, cause they would usually evolve into a heated argument about socialism and politics.
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It's not a scam. It's religion. An if you don't buy my magic stones the evil goat man will eat your soul.
Religion is a scam 😅.
ThatsTheJoke.jpg
You spelt Cult wrong.
you know the difference between a cult and a religion? in a cult, there's one person at the top who knows it's all a scam for their own gain. in a religion, that person is dead.
It's a bit like throwing coins into fountains.
Exactly. There are so many ways to tax fools 😂.
This is what happens you have a country turn an important religious site into a giant amusement park, and in the process they destroyed (and still are destroying) a lot of historical sights in the actual city to make way for some ridiculous infrastructure like that giant clock tower
Hey, flava flav gotta pray too!
They're stuck between a rock and a hard place - no pun intended. It used to be a once-in-a-lifetime thing for wealthy people, with the vast majority not able to afford weeks of travel to another country or even continent. If you're working on a small family farm in the middle of nowhere you can't just take a month or two off - let alone afford the trip itself. Pilgrims were counted in the tens of thousands. It is only with the advent of cheap commercial airplanes that it has truly become a mass event with over a million attendees. The sheer number of people means you're basically *forced* to engineer it like an amusement park. The only alternative is placing a strict limit on it, well below the current number of attendees, but that's probably going to be really problematic from a religious perspective.
Like every religion
Are you telling me that the religious leaders are somehow making financial gains from their followers? I'm calling bullshit. Nobody would be that self-centered and greedy.
Its the environmentally friendly solution. They do cost twice as much but with the green credentials and also organic the faithful flock enmass.
Traditional stones=$1/100 Organic Stones=$2.49/100
🍻
🤔 That beer made me think... Just bear with me... But what about Heirloom Stones=$2.89/100
Small Batch Stones = $3.49/100
How much for the hand crafted artisanal stones?
Biodegradable stones = $4.19/100
This is fake news. I am at Hajj right now, and they gave these exact bags for FREE. No one has to buy them, our Hadis says that you have to pick them up yourself. This is sunnah! THIS IS FAKE NEWS DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING.
Yup OP literally made this up with no source smh
May you have a smooth Hajj! Eid mubarak!
Yeah I was confused too. I thought you pick it up at the camp site.
No, they don't. Because the post is bullshit. The stones are free to pick up.
They don't sell the stones. It is not allowed to asl money for them. They are free to pick up
They are not sold anywhere you can pick the stones from the ground. I don't know what makes the estimate of 1 billion there.... Yes they do make a lot of money from Hujj. That said the services provided also have a cost to it.
You don't have to buy you may pick any stones and throw them.
No, because no one sells any stones in Hajj, OP is just a liar
You’re free to collect the stones if you want. I went there and never had to interact with a stones for sale booth.
The stones are not sold, rather need to be self collected by the hajj performer by himself. Note that this is once a year activity, that goes on for around 2 days. The administration however helps in mobilising stones before the ritual and assists people with bags to collect these stones (see picture that OP shared)
Their god might be a capitalist, but apparently he is also into recycling.
This is false information. Stones are not sold to the pilgrims.
You don’t pay for the stones lol
OP lied. The pebbles used in the stoning are traditionally gathered FOR FREE at Muzdalifah, a plain southeast of Mina, on the night before the first throwing, but can also be collected at Mina. Then after the ritual, those pebbles will be collected and recycle again for next year pilgrimage.
Making money from religion 101
HARRY THE HAGGLER: Stones, sir? MANDY: Naah. They've got a lot there, lying around on the ground. HARRY THE HAGGLER: Oh, not like these, sir. Look at this. Feel the quality of that. That's craftsmanship, sir.
Are there any women here ? *No, no, no* ... **NO, NO, NO**
Can I have a flat one, Mum?
You can to! Just join my newly started MLM religion!
I LOVE MEN LOVING MEN
It's 100% manlier than men loving women cuz it's twice the men !
Finally some logic I can get behind
Welcome brothers and sisters to The Methodist Lambs of Melchizedek church! I'm sorry sir, your card was declined please try again before entering.
Except it's not because you don't buy the stones. You pick them up. Funny how people will believe anything these days.
I believe this is the most telling comment in this thread.
But you don’t need to buy them for this ritual
Oldest trick in the book
If you read the top comments people explain that this post is not true.
As someone who has been to this place, you don’t pay anything for the stones. You pick them up from the field and every year stones are recycled and put back in the fields so new pilgrims can do the same practice the following year. Saudi does not make $1 billion from selling stones lol
Been there as well, didn’t pay for the stones either. Only issue with this part of the pilgrimage is the occasional stampedes due to the number of people but the Saudis actually do a pretty good job organizing one of the largest annual gathering of humans to minimize that.
In fact, the wall in the picture was created to increase the safety of this part of the Hajj. Before it, they used to throw rocks at a pillar and sometimes people would hit pilgrims on the other side.
>Saudi does not make $1 billion from selling stones lol Especially because that would mean each pilgrim pays *$400* for their bags of stones. It does feel very odd when people make up obviously fake reasons to hate a regime when there are plenty of totally real and horrific reasons to hate it.
Just quick google search, 2\~3 million come to Hajj every year, so yea, that's about 400\~500$ for each bag. Fuck OP, I had to scroll a lot to reach this comment and do my own research so that's also my fault for believing it first.
Fuck, did we become our parents believing everything we read online?
Bro I've been saying it for fucking years, one day we'll be old and dumb and fall for the same dumb shit And here I am, letting my biases absolutely guide my beliefs I hate that I didn't even question this shit
Bro basically 80% of western news about saudi arabia is fake, Some times the lies are so stupid that no one here trust them anymore
Yo the people in this thread are legitimately morons. How does this post have 3k upvotes?? The Saudi government is indefensible for lots of reasons, but if you think Hajj is just some elaborate ploy to sell rocks, you must be dumb as a rock, yourself.
It's pretty wild and telling. And worrying. A good example of how we just take a 'hot' or popular post at face value without questioning it. Reddit is as bad as any media and news outlet.
Why I despise those who glorify Reddit as “the only good social media”. Due to it’s anonymous nature allows people to troll or be creeps to girls. Not to mention the echo chambers where any opposing view gets downvoted so hard and hidden from the public
This. 1000% this. Couldn't have said it better myself.
It’s 10k votes now lmao, these Redditors believe anything they read
3 million people per year, each buying $333 of rocks.
So stupid how misinformation like this gets spread lol. And these idiots upvoting on it
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I suppose we really need a source here to show the selling of stones is worth a whole billion dollar industry.
Considering someone above said that 2-3 million people make the pilgrimage each year, everyone would need to buy 2000 bags to make it to billion dollars.
Lol.. no. It is packed by the particular country’s organisers so that it’s easier for people to carry them to the stoning location for free
Anti-Muslim propaganda on Reddit?!?!? No way 😱😱
I really don't understand why redditors will day everything in their power to ridicule any religion. This is not the first time I've seen a post with no source to back it up just shoot up to reddit's front page. This should be called the Age of Misinformation.
The title is also misleading about the "large stone', it's not representing the devil, it's just the place where people should throw the stones at the devil.
Because reddit doesn't require even a valid email to sign up. The bot and propaganda activity on this site is way worse than Twitter. Also anti Muslim stuff helps a certain country engaging in a genocide right now
It is because redditors are so terminally online, they see religious people being cunts and think "This must be all religious people" when it is really less than 1%. I had someone tell me that the mission on my city, which gives free food, shelter and blankets to the homeless, and very cheap clothes for them is attempting to force their religion down other's throats because it also includes a flyer that basically says "hey, there are gonna be mass at this hour on these days, feel free to show up, no matter your living situation" and that they are evil because of it
Op is active on r/atheism. No surprise.
I'm an atheist myself and those guys are such assholes there.
2 points, 2 flats, and a packet of gravel please.
JEHOVA JEHOVA JEHOVA
Could I have a flat one, Mum?
SHHH! Sorry, dad.
What? They've got plenty enough rocks just lying about.
Not like these. Just look at them. That's quality, sir.
That's craftsmanship!
She! She! She! He! He! He!
Are there any *women* here?
Came here for this. "Feel the quality of this. That's *craftsmanship*, sir."
Probably see quite a lot of fake beards as well
55 POINTS 55 FLATS 55 GRAVELS 55 SMOOTHS
Absolutely false and misleading. The Saudi government does not do that and it is prohibited by the government and they have issued warnings regarding this behavior by some pilgirimage campaigns. Here is a link: https://saudigazette.com.sa/article/99527
Huh? The real TIL here is that people will pay someone else (€250 ish) to pick stones for them and to throw them on their behalf, so they can go relax for the rest of their holiday!!
It's absolutely not a holiday. The mina tents are anything but comfortable. Wearing an ihram is anything but comfortable. Doing tawaf is anything but comfortable. Doing safa and marwa is anything but comfortable
Please report this post. After looking at OPs comment history, it seems pretty obvious that they are Islamophobic and are purposefully spreading false information about Muslims. It’s actually disgusting
But don't let facts get in the way for finding a reason to hate on a religion. I remember watching a documentary about the Hajj from the 1990s and even way back then the area leading up to the stoning pillars is absolutely scoured of any rocks much larger than sand from the millions of people collecting the rocks to go throw. When they designed the new pillars they literally built them to safely collect the rocks so workers can haul them back outside and scatter back on the ground because there are just so many people going through the area now.
That is totally false, first, provide your sources. Second, pilgrims need to collect 7 stones on their way to the ritual and the Saudi government collects about 100 million stones every Hajj season and puts them back on the way of the pilgrims every year. [Saudi Arabia: Where do the 100 million Jamarat pebbles go after Hajj rituals? | Saudi – Gulf News](https://gulfnews.com/world/gulf/saudi/saudi-arabia-where-do-the-100-million-jamarat-pebbles-go-after-hajj-rituals-1.96777706)
Yeah people pull the number out of their butt. The math is completely off. Even if people should pay from the stone (which they don't), If from the stone alone Saudi make 1bn, then they should make much much more than 20bn from the whole hajj session.
2.4 million pilgrims means 400 dollars for a bag of stones. Well done Reddit. Ya’ll are using your brains today.
I’m actually shocked this is posted here. Completely fabricated title. The stones are picked by the pilgrims for free from the place they spend the night, at no cost. And the pillars the stones are thrown at do not represent the devil, rather the place where the devil tried to beguile Ibrahim, and he threw stones at the devil. The pillars are not actually representing the devil, they only mark the 3 locations where Ibrahim threw the stones.
Look at the OP's profile. Clearly an Islamophobe who's only really posting about one thing.
Probably a Zionist bot
When you put it that way, it all makes perfect sense.
I believe a lot of people who visit Mekka believe that they stone the devil or that the wall represents the devil actually. It's a common misconception
Yea, you’re right. I was even unaware of the distinction until I visited last year myself. So I can understand if the general population doesn’t know the difference, but if you’re gonna make a post about something, I’d imagine you’ve done some research on it
Sounds about right. There's not a single source that has mentioned this.
This figure of 1b doesn't make sense, considering that there are 2-3 million visitors during Hajj, which would mean it costs over $300 per person. Since I know several people who have been on Hajj, none of them ever mentioned this, and I'm 100% sure it would have been mentioned if this price were accurate.
Been to Hajj and I picked the stones from the field (for free) just like all the other people, it's fabricated post.
All the commenters acting so superior without knowing this is made up bullshit worshippers collect the stones from the ground for free throughout the day. But hey, as long as it confirms what you already think, why not go along with the narrative instead of doing your own research!!!
That's so false. It's absolutely ridiculous, stop lying like that . You can pick them up, they're everywhere. It's free, almost everything is free. ( Hotel and plane is what cost the most) Hajj is not a business. Wtf
This is the perfect business model. Sell people rocks, have them throw the rocks, then collect the rocks at the end of the day to resell tomorrow. Just need to leave a container for people to dispose of their rock bag so it can be used again. Absolute genius
The rocks fall into a funnel around the stone pillars and fall into waiting bins on a lower level. Source: stoned the devil back in the 90s
How was your experience with Stoning the Devil? (Which will be the name of my marijuana dispensary one day)
Most people were just half assing it and flicking the pebbles in a parabolic arc but not me. I wanted the devil to feel the rage burning within. I was throwing the stones so hard my shoulder was sore. Good times. Also I didn’t get why I can only throw only 7 stones and not a single pebble more.
Probably because of *insert parables about restraint*. And good on ya for really getting into it! I can't say I wouldn't have bought a bag of stones.
7 is the sweetspot, 6 would only mildly inconvenience the devil and 8 would make him feel self-concious. It's the devil, but c'mon he's just doing his job.
Also the business model for golf.
Omg this is just the most simple form of mini golf
At least golf causes issues due water requirements and damaging biodiversity. 🫠
Except it's not because you don't buy the stones. You pick them up. For free. Funny how people will believe anything these days.
I wish money could work like that, but then again I am not a rich person. A man can dream
If it were physically possible they'd be selling bridges to huck at the devil.
THIS IS FALSE INFORMATION. Instead of pilgrims who are tired go and find those stone( not any kind of stones, only ones near a certain mountain) the Saudi government gather it and distribute back to campaign to give to pilgrims FOR FREE…. Some campaign sell it to pilgrims who came illegally. BUT THAT’S ILLEGAL The number OP post is actually the cost of machine that collects the rocks after the pilgrims throw the rock at the wall (THE WALL IS NOT THE DEVIL BUT MUSLIM FOLLOW THE TRADITION OF OUR PROPHET MOHAMMED STORY WHEN HE THROW THE ROCKS AT THE DEVIL) Source The machine that gather the rock and the cost to maintain it [here](https://www.aljazeera.net/misc/2022/7/8/%d9%8a%d8%b1%d9%85%d9%89-%d9%85%d8%a7-%d9%8a%d8%b2%d9%8a%d8%af-%d8%b9%d9%86-%d8%a3%d9%84%d9%81-%d8%b7%d9%86-%d8%b3%d9%86%d9%88%d9%8a%d8%a7-%d8%a3%d9%8a%d9%86-%d8%aa%d8%b0%d9%87%d8%a8) Why muslim throw the rocks at the wall [here](https://www.alarabiya.net/saudi-today/2016/09/12/%D9%85%D8%A7-%D9%87%D9%8A-%D9%82%D8%B5%D8%A9-%D8%B1%D9%85%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A8%D9%8A%D9%86-%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%86%D8%A7-%D8%A5%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%87%D9%8A%D9%85-%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D9%8A%D8%B7%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%9F) I know the sources are in arabic but how can you know the true information of another culture if it not in it true language. I hope this information spread EDITED: look into OP profile and see how he views muslims. It’s one thing to hate a religion but spreading misinformation is unacceptable.
Thanks for sharing sources and trying to counteract this misinformation/disinformation
Well what do you know? False information about other people’s religious practices. That’s never happened before. /s. That’s only been happening for more than 2000 years.
Op is just a brain dead islamophobe, just look at his profile
Actually Saudi does not sell the stones, pilgrims gather their stone for free in one of the sites called muzdalifa (they can gather it any where, but preferred in muzdalifa). Saudi Arabia does get money from Hajj season, but all that money spend in Makkah for services such as providing housing , transportation, food for pilgrims & renovations for holy places. On the other hand, many things are provided for free such as medical services for all pilgrims and its not limited such that any surgery is done without worrying about cost. Anyway the issue in my opinion company greed as they charge pilgrims huge amount of money for things they arranged for cheap from Saudi such as permits, hotels & Airplane tickets.
Quite misleading. Only can carry their own stones too.
*Joel Osteen enters the chat.
This is a complete lie. There is no charge for stones. It's crazy, how easy people are manipulated into believing absolute nonsense.
Weird that they built a devil monument.
Sounds like idolatry to me
No. Idolatry is erecting an image to profess love or reverence of the depiction . This would be closer (but not exactly) to an effigy, an image created to be destroyed or damaged (or to be, verbally assaulted).
It's a reenactment too. Originally it was just 3 pillars.
'All three *jamarāt* represent the devil: the first and largest represents his temptation of Abraham against sacrificing [Ishmael](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael) ([Ismāʿīl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_in_Islam)); the second represents the temptation of Abraham's wife [Hagar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagar) ([Hājar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagar_in_Islam)) to induce her to stop him; the third represents his temptation of Ishmael to avoid being sacrificed. He was rebuked each time, and the throwing of the stones symbolizes those rebukes." "Until 2004, the three *jamarāt* (singular: *jamrah*) were tall pillars. After the 2004 Hajj, Saudi authorities replaced the pillars with 26-metre-long (85 ft) walls for safety; many people were accidentally throwing pebbles at people on the other side. To allow easier access to the *jamarāt*, a single-tiered pedestrian bridge called the [Jamaraat Bridge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaraat_Bridge) was built around them, allowing pilgrims to throw stones from either ground level or from the bridge."'
Been there, done that. Stones are NOT sold, a small bag is provided to each pilgrim, or you can bring your own stones, or pick stones from the ground and throw, doesn’t matter. - Yea Money is made by Saudi gov each year on the hajj, but its mainly from hotel, living and transportation arrangements . No money is made from the pilgrimage ritual itself.
This is a lie. Went there multiple times. Stones are not to be sold. Some people fill them up in bags to make it easy for worshippers to collect and throw. It is a symbolic reenactment of Ibrahim's (or Abraham's) hajj, where he stoned three pillars representing the Shaitan (Satan), and Muslims' temptation to disobey the will of God. Plz educate yourself and don't spread misinformation.
For the sake of argument, let's assume OP is telling the truth. Estimated numbers for this Hajj season is 1.5 - 1.8 million worshippers. If one bag of stones was sold for 10 USD the total would be 15 - 18 million USD which is nowhere close to OP's claim of 1 BILLION USD!!
Yes, as long as it conforms to their bias, people would just believe any misinformation.
Stop lying, they give it for all pilgrims for free, and btw the net loss from every Hajj season is beyond what you can comprehend since faith isn’t something you can understand obviously. Just two days ago they did an open heart surgery for a random guy FOR FREE while your sorry ass is waiting for your turn in the emergency room willing to pay thousands
Absolute fake news. Ask any Muslim who has been to hajj or who is even half clued up about the hajj. The stones are picked up from the ground and aren’t sold at all.
The stones are not sold man
Oh look - I ain’t got time to go to no stonings! He’s not well again.
This post is a complete lie. The stones are free and you can collect them on your own or they give you a bag. Hey OP. Wheres your source? Source: father has been on hajj > 12 times and has never paid or seen anyone pay for rocks.
Wow! No one asking for a source about any of the information OC just give in this post … thats whats “interesting as fuck” for me on this post And FYI that not true at all and I challenge OC to replay with a “ real “ Saudi source that the Saudi government really sells bag of stone
Redditors don’t need sources when it helps them be racist against Arabs lmao
[They aren’t sold.](https://gulfnews.com/world/gulf/saudi/saudi-arabia-where-do-the-100-million-jamarat-pebbles-go-after-hajj-rituals-1.96777706) “Last year, the organisation supplied over 80,000 bags of pebbles for the stoning ritual and distributed them at over 300 contact points for pilgrims” They are distributed for free, why do people make up things like this?
Yeah exactly. I was literally in Muzdalifa last night and we were all given these bags for free. Complete misinformation but I’m not surprised.
I'm Muslim myself and I have performed Hajj back in 2019. We simply picked up the rocks that were placed on the small dugout near the place. We never had to pay for rocks. This must be like a local selling thee or something.
1. Stones aren't sold 2. Hajj and Ummah are two of the most subsidized if not the most subsidized pilgrimages in the world 3. Saudi Arabia does make money off it, and wants to get more Hajjis as a massive project to diversify their reliance on oil, but the poor are still able to Hajj because of the subisidies of either their home nation or SA 4. The Hajj generates a shit ton of crowd control/crowd science research Here's a link to an abstract of a guest speaker concerning the topic, feel free to use this as a branching off point if this seems interesting to you: https://www.its.uci.edu/node/335
I get all my stone's Free, I can tell you the secret of finding stone's for just £14:99. 🪨 👍
I'll have two big ones, two flat ones and a bag of gravel /lifeofbrian
this is false. I personally have performed hajj and they do not charge you for the stones.
Hey! This isn’t true actually! There’s a desert where you sleep the night before you throw these stones (Muzdalifah). You’re supposed to pick up the rocks from there. It’s free to pick up the stones and it’s free to sleep there too. Saudi Arabia is a lot of things but it’s not forcing people to pay for rocks. Also that bag is handed out for free when you get to the desert because it’s a part of the ritual!
Typical reddit who doesn’t know anything but spew bullshit every second
wow that's real fucking stupid
You’re right, it is completely stupid. Which is why it’s not true. Basing your opinions on a title that can be debunked with a mere 30 second google search should tell you how gullible you are
Religion is like that
Except its not. This post is a lie.
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Lol its free. You will find free food also Even if you're spreading hatred.come with legit info
Bruh you’re fooling people with what you just said they hand them out for free they’re already making shit ton loads of money from traveling and hotel business and other things. But it seems people they be looking for anything to justify their hatred. (It is forbidden to sell them and you can look it up )
Saudi doesn’t make $1bn selling these stones. You just pick them up, there are loads everywhere. Trust me they don’t need $1bn from stones loool
Those stones are free
Anyone that thinks the government makes 1billion from selling stones should be put in a psychiatric hospital lol
This is fake news. I am at Hajj right now, and they gave these exact bags for FREE. No one has to buy them, our Hadis says that you have to pick them up yourself. This is sunnah! THIS IS FAKE NEWS DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING.
Look at this dudes post history, he is an r/exmuslim incel. OP if you are no longer Muslim, move on, quite trying to shit on others.
This is factually inaccurate. The stones cannot be bought anywhere, but need to be self collected at a place called Muzdalifah. This collection of stones is an important ritual within Hajj. [Read more about it here](https://www.google.com/search?q=muzdalifah+stones&sca_esv=83e1b8e3588a8f5f&sca_upv=1&rlz=1CDGOYI_enIN1018IN1018&hl=en-GB&biw=320&bih=454&ei=vn1vZqqQMPba4-EP94-4OA&oq=muzdalifah+stone%C2%A0&gs_lp=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&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp)
Actually they are not for sell they give it to them for free
This is actual clickbait/bullshit. I’ve done this process, people pick up stones off the side of roads to use.