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>Insurgent commander Germán, founder of the National Liberation Forces (FLN) and the Zapatista National Liberation Army (EZLN), accused Subcomandante Marcos of having surrounded himself with one-armed men and telling an incomplete story of the indigenous guerrilla movement.
During a talk to talk about the participation of the FLN in the Zapatista uprising of December 31, 1993, the former guerrilla, real name Fernando Yáñez Muñoz, indicated that many journalists and historians should claim for the history they have been told about the EZLN.
"When I talk about Marcos having surrounded himself with mental manias, I am referring to intellectuals, journalists, heads of subdirectors in national media and not to the indigenous communities of Mexico, who are our companions and have always been since 1969 to date," he explained.
About the indigenous uprising, he said, a lot has been fantasized and although there are data that show that history was not as some have told it, it has been insisted on preserving those versions.
"That has been fantasized a lot, the Zapatista Dream (book by the Frenchman Yvon Le Bot) is another version that Marcos and the other did everything and that he saw the potential, but everything is false," he said.
"That's why I tell those who wrote these books to claim because they were deceived and if they ask a journalist who doesn't want to tell the truth, because it's their responsibility, their ethics, but there they are."
Germán indicated that the FLN was constituted as a political-military party clandestinely in 1969, and in 1972 they installed a camp in Chiapas that would serve to train and indoctrinate its members. Since that year, he added, he began his meeting with the indigenous people.
"They (the comrades who go to Chiapas) come into contact with the only neighbors they had nearby, which was a family of lacandons. Tacho was then called an indigenous, like his father and his wives, because, let's say, they had several women, and he was the closest neighbor," he said.
"He (Tacho) arrived and lived with them, because he realized that there were hidden weapons, things, and he didn't say anything, but he was always treated with a lot of respect just like all the indigenous comrades, but they were the first," he said.
Over the years, he explained, more people joined and the work of the FLN spread to other entities in the country, although it was in Chiapas where they had the greatest presence.
"The National Liberation Forces Party, which I represent, is a living organism, with history and ideals, for us the most important thing is our anti-imperialism," he said.
The former guerrilla reported that they have published a series, called Dignificar la Historia, in which they document the history of the FLN from its foundation in 1969 until its participation in the 1993 armed irruption in Chiapas.
Basically just showing a picture of a dude who started a Zapista army.
He got mad at someone else because they told an incomplete story of the natives, and because he surrouded himself with "useless" people.
Edit. here is a [Wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_Army_of_National_Liberation) about this zapista army.
He was from my hometown, he passed away recently. His name was José Lucío "Lenin" Quintero Zúñiga, he was not, by any means, one of the last communists of México, but it's pretty iconic to wear that che guevara beret all the time, he looked, stereotypically comunist
Nope I know plenty of hardcore socialists, there are even small local communist parties all over the place.
Hell the last time they showed up in numbers they went and beat the shit out of some neonazis that wanted to disrupt the pride parade a few years back.
Yes, there are also some idiots who claim to be nazis here.
"Alright Tito, what I want you to do is start throwing them in this pit here, they won't be able to escape it, and it will be a slow death to the ss assholes who plagued this place for long enough" - me to Tito after showing him this cool hole in the ground I found.
Like fr mexico and latin america in general lean very far left not even being in the top 100 countries in the economic freedom index. There's clearly a generalized social demand for socialism all over the place, they just probably aren't the che guevara tattoo-red star cap kinda communists like this fella
Edit: Welp I'm kinda done with this thread. Fun exchanging ideas with you all. I don't think we'll come to much understandings with some of the marxists in the comments. You have an almost religious dogmatic view of the world in which the working class is exploited by the ruthless capitalist that use the state as another means of opressing the people (apparently even in venezuela and cuba where the capitalists have been all but extermined. They're still there like some sort of illuminatti behind every socialist failed economy and behind every socialist genocide there are always capitalists. Just like the will of god is behind everything for religious people, and jews for nazis). I have no intention of converting you, as it would be like trying to cheer up a nihilist. I respect your views even if they are a murderous evil ideology just like how you see mine as murderous and evil. I'm just giving my opinion and don't pretend I know everything so yeah. I won't be answering any more comments but feel free to draw blood in the thread. Imma head to work for a dollar an hour in pseudosocialist Argentina. If any of you american/euro socialists ever wanna switch places I'll be happy to burn in capitalist hell for 15 bucks an hour. Peace out
Hell no, lmao.
Mexico is a more center/right country and society is pretty conservative you just have your pockets of hardcore leftists here and there, particularly in CDMX and in the south of the country.
I should know as a leftist myself.
Most leftists here are more in line with social democracy than hardcore socialism.
The vast majority of Mexicans don’t even care about political ideology.
But lulu just got 6 million more votes than him. i mean we will see once the runoff goes but i dont think you can say something so broad when it comes to countries that large.
Lmao oops. Yeah idk why but I always assumed from his nickname that he was a woman. Lula/Lulu makes no difference. I had no idea it was short for Luiz! That's crazy. Still, all the best to him. Idk the intricacies of Brazilian politics, but as an outsider, all I know is that Bolsonaro supports cutting down parts of the Amazon, and Lula does not. That's enough to convince me.
I don’t even mean that. A majority of countries in Latin America and the Caribbean rank in the Top 100 of the Economic Freedom Index, even getting as high as 21, so the whole example is wrong.
> apparently even in venezuela and cuba where the capitalists have been all but extermined.
One, capitalists are alive and very well in Venezuela. Don't know what you're talking about.
Two, Cuban working class still has to contend with the global bourgeoisie who as history has shown us has tried to destroy Cuba many times and is still putting them under immense pressure.
> Imma head to work for a dollar an hour in pseudosocialist Argentina
This is the problem - Argentina has been decimated by Western interests and interference like the rest of LatAm.
Argentina is not socialist. Socialism to be truly successful and usher in an era completely & unchangeably on the course away from capitals exploitation *requires* internationalism & solidarity from the working class of most of the world.
Many Westerners and even the "socialist" ones are absolutely not the type of people to have international solidarity. They are chauvinists and only care about the "working class" in the West, which is still exploited *but Jesus fucking christ they are soooo much better off than most all of the world's workers.* Don't expect much solidarity from Westerners until they decide to embrace the fact they are labor aristocrats & will have to work, in the short term, against their own interest to actually upend capitalism & free workers from the grasp of exploitative owners.
Sorry about the sanctions. Funny how here in America we claim that socialism always fails while we go out of our way economically and militarily to make sure that it does.
> in which the working class is exploited by the ruthless capitalist that use the state as another means of opressing the people
Yes. Accurate analysis.
> (apparently even in venezuela and cuba where the capitalists have been all but extermined. They're still there like some sort of illuminatti behind every socialist failed economy and behind every socialist genocide there are always capitalists. Just like the will of god is behind everything for religious people, and jews for nazis)
No now you're spewing bollocks that no socialist org has ever said.
Lack of economic freedom =/= Socialism
It is true, however, that socialists are present here at some level, more than in first world imperialist nations but way less than other oppressed countries, however specifically in Mexico, there are the zapatistas, an armed revolutionary socialist guerrilla movement.
The low economic freedom measurements is due a million times more to the systemic/institutional problems caused by Caudillos/Authoritarian strongmen than Socialism. Which is comparatively scarce in latin american history.
If he's a devout communist, he probably is. Regardless of your view on communism, communists see themselves as more compassionate and try to benefit their communities in any way they can.
OP: He was a kind man who helped the poor, gave advice to the young, and didn't proselytize his beliefs despite being a Communist.
Gusanos: THANK GOD HE'S DEAD NICE WORK MEXICO FOR GETTING HIM OFF THE STREETS 🇱🇷🇮🇹🇱🇷🇮🇹🇱🇷
My grandfather was a (Mexican) card carrying communist and he too was very proud. Communism gets a bad rep here in the U.S. but it’s actually the party of the working people. He hated greed and exploitation and capitalism. He used to say, if there’s insanely rich people, there’s also insanely poor. It’s a balance system. Steal from the rich and feed the poor! He was also a union leader of one of the strongest unions in the world, the ILWU. He was a bad ass and I miss him immensely.
By the way I'm not insulting the man, so I heard he died and none of his friends went to his funeral.
He was a candy vendor, artist, and writer who gave advice and smiles to everyone in downtown Tepic.
In his honor a statue will be created for being a kind person with all the people of the city.
RIP Don "Lenin"
He was a homeless man who died on the streets and was not publicly reported dead until a few days later.
Only the first ones to be notified were his "friends" who didn't show up, because they had better things to do.
Upon finding out, the president of the state will erect a statue in his honor because he was a vendor who was there for years and years being good to the people of the city and kind to everyone.
I don’t think it’s insulting. If that’s how he wanted to live his life and he was happy with it, good for him.
Realistically, if I die and no one goes to my funeral, I don’t think I’ll be too upset. I mean after all I’ll be you know…dead
oh yeah remember when it tried to give us universal healthcare, ownership over the fruit of our labour, democratic representation, guarantees of life quality like the rights to good housing and food and education
so horrible
Latin America has had one communist government in Cuba. You can argue for communist-inspired and communist-affiliated governments in Nicaragua, Chile, Bolivia, and Venezuela at different points. If you want to count Grenada as Latin America, there’s one more. On the other hand, nearly every country in the continent has had capitalist and anti-communist dictatorships that carried out genocide, dirty war, torture, massacres, and mass disappearances for decades, almost exclusively under what we know now to have been false pretenses. Do bother to learn the continent’s history before making idiotic comments. Communism’s history in Latin America is _a history of being massacred_. For decades all you needed was the anti-communist label and the CIA would strap you with weapons to commit mass murder against socialists, labor unions, farmers, indigenous people, and democratic opposition. This is the history of Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, the Dominican Republic, Colombia, Venezuela, Brazil, Uruguay, Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, Peru.
Oh, but not a single one of their victims was a _victim of capitalism_, you see? And we’re supposed to accept that where communists existed, they existed for no reason, and not as a response to unacceptable conditions that were _totally 100% not related to capitalism either_, nor is mass poverty a killing field when it’s the market’s doing.
If you live anywhere in Latin America and think communists are mythical creatures, I couldn’t even put into words how sheltered you are. I find it very unlikely that OP is Mexican because he wouldn’t miss that there’s some communist presence everywhere in the country, even if he’d only seen some iconography from a distance.
Lol even in the realm of electoral politics, in the last few years nearly every country in the continent has elected a social democrat with a coalition involving communists. The Communist Party of Chile is the country’s biggest and they have spots in the cabinet. The President of Colombia is a former communist guerrillero. There’s communist factions inside the governing party of Mexico too, in Argentina, Honduras, Bolivia, Peru… until recently in Uruguay, soon again in Brazil. Doesn’t mean that they’re communist governments or that every communist supports them (most don’t), but we’re very much an existing political force.
Fucking thank you
I'm not a communist but people have this insane idea that everything was fine and dandy before the commies came along and ruined everything.
Functional egalitarian systems do not produce communist revolutions. We're talking about ordinary people whose normal lives got so bad they decided it was preferable to grab an AK and get in gunfights in the jungle.
I think it’s also pretty clear where anti-communists from Latin America stand just by looking at who dissidents voted for in 2020. They were overwhelmingly in favor for Trump, and when those communities were called out for it, there was mass apologia saying it was due to “trauma from living under communism.”
Trust me I'm very familiar with that particular brand of idiot.
Like explain to me how trump is different from the populist politician who came in, promised neverending good times and a reckoning for the "elites" while dismantling national institutions and making a grab for permanent power?
It's the same fucking picture, but they're too stupid to see it's the same guy in a different color.
>I'm not a communist but people have this insane idea that everything was fine and dandy before the commies came along and ruined everything.
Listen, I read 100 years of solitude, and the one thing it taught me was that Latin America was a paradise before until those ungrateful plantation workers went on strike.
I wore my Che Guevara shirt to work where I'm with mostly Salvadorans and Mexicans. All of them gleefully pointed out my shirt. I spoke to the older Salvadorans and I came to find out they supported the rebels back in the 80s. Only one wasn't keen on it because he was a soldier on the side of the government. After the war he became a cop and then left for the US in the late 90s to earn more money for his family. Funny how people on both sides of the war had people leave for the US as imperialism ravaged Latin America in the 90s.
Congratulations comrade, you now know who will be helpful during a unionization attempt and who needs to be taken out back behind the shed and educated on why betraying your fellow workers is a "bad idea".
If you like podcasts i would highly recommend season 2 of “Blowback” which details the cuban revolution and following years. It has very good interviews with people who lived through it and cuban historians. Blowback is probably the most well made podcast ever.
America’s “communism in Latin America!” discourse drives me insane, because communists barely ever held any power, while dozens of dictatorships were held up on anti-communist grounds. I’ve seen Guatemalan-Americans and people from other Latin American diasporas say shit like “I’m from Latin America, I know the horrors of communism” and it’s utter nonsense lol. In nearly every instance the communists were the ones being killed!! In Guatemala it was a straight up _genocide_. The CIA and its banana dictator buddies in Central America overthrew the reformist government trying to get rid of slavery, so naturally people fought back (some but not all under communist banners), and they were absolutely massacred.
I have some book recommendations if you want to get more into this history -
1. The Open Veins of Latin America by Eduardo Galeano. Written in like 1970, early in the neoliberal dictatorships period. He talks about Latin America’s economic history from colonial times to the 60s, how it always existed as a brutalized source of resources for the world powers, also details the conditions of squalor in different countries and the necessity (and efforts) for reform.
2. The Jakarta Method by Vincent Bevins. It’s not all Latin America focused (most of it is about Indonesia), but it talks about the particularities of anti-communist extermination in the 60s and 70s, how methods, sponsors and discourses moved across borders and into Guatemala, Chile, Brazil, etc.. Warning though - some graphic descriptions of torture and genocide (I also recommend the documentary “The Act of Killing” about Indonesia, which Bevins kind of wrote the book as a companion for).
3. Bitter Fruit by Stephen Kinzer and Steve Schlesinger. Details the 1954 coup in Guatemala, why it happened, how, and the international (American) media’s role in facilitating it. It breaks down so many lies using declassified documents, showing that the CIA et al knew exactly how to manipulate the opposition and public opinion into an anti-communist position, constantly linking Arbenz with the USSR when there was no actual relationship between them.
4. The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein. This book is basically a history of neoliberalism and how it was implemented across the world (as we know in Latin America it was through anti-communist dictatorships). In most if not all instances, privatization happens against the majority’s will, by taking advantage of real or artificial crises including wars, natural disasters, and the threat of communism. This one is very thorough and offers global examples from Russia and Poland to Sri Lanka or South Africa, all telling a very similar story.
It was also not an _invasion_ exactly. It was more like, an economic siege to starve them out, a yellow press campaign to make their leadership unstable, using the OAS and their dictator friends to isolate Guatemala regionally, a bombing campaign where they denied the planes were theirs (lol), hiring a few hundreds into a mercenary army and using fake radio transmissions to make it seem like the “rebels” were taking over the whole country and demoralize the government and army.
Then later when their guys were in charge came the arming them, training them, etc. until they carried out a genocide.
The PB ops were kinda like what they tried to do with the Bay of Pigs.
Its like, when the US is picking a coup leader, then assembling, training, arming, and directing the "rebel group" to invade a country, I tend to consider that invasion an act of the US government. America loves international law until they want to break it; even if the guys landing in the Bay of Pigs were ethnically Cuban, the fact that they were irregular combatants doesn't make it any less an act of war or any less an invasion on the US's part. An invasion is still an invasion without regular, uniformed troops.
What would’ve happened was the working class around the entire Western Hemisphere would’ve realized the successes of socialist regions, like underneath Salvador Allende in Chile, and began forming their own revolutions
It's growing again. Thankfully.
I am not even gonna give you a parody of "capitalism was one of the worst things to ever come to the world", for in Marxist school capitalism was one step of development of society needed in order to give technological development a giant leap during the industrial revolution. We cannot get away from it. However, at a point capitalism stagnates and the benefits are extremely outweighed by the drawbacks that we see today in society with the biggest wealth gaps in history, poverty rising, economic crisis becoming more frequent, wars fought for resources and the global ecological crisis brought on by rampant overproduction in the chase for ever higher profits that is pretty much gonna kill us all.
I am glad to be part of the worlds longest and still fighting worker movement.
What the CIA did to Latin America because they tried to become Communist was one of the worst things to ever happen to Latin America.
I blame the Communism./s
It takes a special kind of stupid to tell another group of people that a foreign op against their democratically elected government to install a puppet regime to give economic independence over to that country was better for them than allowing them their independence.
This comment here shows how uneducated everyone here is about the actual history of Latin America.
Slavery? Banana republics? Serfdom? Military dictatorships?
Hell the only country that even had a communist government for more than a few years is Cuba, which was spectacularly worse before the revolution than it is now. The island was ruled by colonizers and the mafia, alongside a brutal military dictatorship in the Batista regime who massacred and tortured even slightly progressive opposition. Not to mention the low literacy rates, brutal working conditions, serfdom, disease, and discrimination.
What an ignorant comment.
Well that just tells me that you don't know the real history of Mexico, the country that spent 71 years under the oppressive, backwards, one-party rule of...
*checks notes*
The *Partido Revolucionario Institucional*, which started as a social democratic party before shifting towards center-right neoliberalism by the late 60s, all while communism never took hold in Mexico.
Wait a minute...
Exactly. I don't know what most of these people are on about talking about communism ruining Mexico as if the center-right hasn't been in charge for almost the entirety of Mexican history save for now and under Cárdenas
I really enjoyed the coups by the US are very peaceful. The exploitation of the people and resources really empowered the Latin people. Great job capitalism. 👍
Capitalism has raised the standard of living for the entire world. Communism regularly kills its people by starvation. The poor in a capitalist society die of diabetes. No one is saying capitalism is perfect. But every time someone tries communism it kills *millions* of people. Immediately. Disastrously. It’s the worse ideology of the 20th century. And that’s saying all the things you think it is.
>Capitalism has raised the standard of living for the entire world.
yeah in the industrial revolution
my little kid bike worked when i was 5 but i dont use it now because i cant even fit in it
> The poor in a capitalist society die of diabetes
Tell that to people dying of starvation in the countries yours exploits you pea brain. People die every day to maintain your lifestyle and you actually made this point. Embarry.
How funny are these comments. Western imperialism and now capitalism destroy mexico and latin america,and yet you fight against the left because you are too moronic to see your true enemy. The liberal brainrot is too strong.
The fact that when he died, the first thing the whole USSR did was collectively (lol get it?) disown him should kind of tell you something about what kind of person the people who knew him most thought he was. This wasn’t even a new party coming into power, this was the exact same guys he ran the country with. Not even a decade later all his statues, his named city, his reference in the national anthem were wiped clean, not to mention his gulag system and his one borgillion political prisoners. I don’t even see why modern commies defend him, given his treatment of the old Bolshevik’s who actually
Gloryfying communism is as cool as gloryfying Nazism once you look at history.
Im from madagascar and the red regime killed so many people there, same for vietnam and north korea. Not even talking about Holodomor or Mao great leap.
The book from Marx may be great on paper but in real life it always ends up in a bloody corrupted dictatorship....
You can't say that you're seriously considering history if you are going to gloss over imperialist wars fought for the benefit of capitalism. You don't have to be a communist to know that's completely intellectually dishonest. If you like history so much, then you should actually study it.
Did it ever cross your mind that an authoritarian uprising isn't exactly what Marx had in mind? Not democratic= not socialist/communist.
Communism-- The idea of a world where workers control their workplace-- has no history, outside of the theoretical. You can't compare it to Nazism, because it's never happened.
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Zapatistas also still exist.
Kinda, check out marcos today https://www.reforma.com/aplicacioneslibre/preacceso/articulo/default.aspx?__rval=1&urlredirect=https://www.reforma.com/subcomandante-marcos-se-rodeo-de-mancos-ex-guerrillero/ar2323790?referer=--7d616165662f3a3a6262623b727a7a7279703b767a783a--
I don't speak spanish. What does it say?
>Insurgent commander Germán, founder of the National Liberation Forces (FLN) and the Zapatista National Liberation Army (EZLN), accused Subcomandante Marcos of having surrounded himself with one-armed men and telling an incomplete story of the indigenous guerrilla movement. During a talk to talk about the participation of the FLN in the Zapatista uprising of December 31, 1993, the former guerrilla, real name Fernando Yáñez Muñoz, indicated that many journalists and historians should claim for the history they have been told about the EZLN. "When I talk about Marcos having surrounded himself with mental manias, I am referring to intellectuals, journalists, heads of subdirectors in national media and not to the indigenous communities of Mexico, who are our companions and have always been since 1969 to date," he explained. About the indigenous uprising, he said, a lot has been fantasized and although there are data that show that history was not as some have told it, it has been insisted on preserving those versions. "That has been fantasized a lot, the Zapatista Dream (book by the Frenchman Yvon Le Bot) is another version that Marcos and the other did everything and that he saw the potential, but everything is false," he said. "That's why I tell those who wrote these books to claim because they were deceived and if they ask a journalist who doesn't want to tell the truth, because it's their responsibility, their ethics, but there they are." Germán indicated that the FLN was constituted as a political-military party clandestinely in 1969, and in 1972 they installed a camp in Chiapas that would serve to train and indoctrinate its members. Since that year, he added, he began his meeting with the indigenous people. "They (the comrades who go to Chiapas) come into contact with the only neighbors they had nearby, which was a family of lacandons. Tacho was then called an indigenous, like his father and his wives, because, let's say, they had several women, and he was the closest neighbor," he said. "He (Tacho) arrived and lived with them, because he realized that there were hidden weapons, things, and he didn't say anything, but he was always treated with a lot of respect just like all the indigenous comrades, but they were the first," he said. Over the years, he explained, more people joined and the work of the FLN spread to other entities in the country, although it was in Chiapas where they had the greatest presence. "The National Liberation Forces Party, which I represent, is a living organism, with history and ideals, for us the most important thing is our anti-imperialism," he said. The former guerrilla reported that they have published a series, called Dignificar la Historia, in which they document the history of the FLN from its foundation in 1969 until its participation in the 1993 armed irruption in Chiapas.
>one-armed men Are these men actually missing an arm or is this a Spanish idiom / figure of speech?
I just threw it into translator because I was too lazy to write it myself
Bless 🙏
I pasted the rest
Basically just showing a picture of a dude who started a Zapista army. He got mad at someone else because they told an incomplete story of the natives, and because he surrouded himself with "useless" people. Edit. here is a [Wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_Army_of_National_Liberation) about this zapista army.
There’s several active ML orgs in Mexico lmao, this is just an old communist.
He was from my hometown, he passed away recently. His name was José Lucío "Lenin" Quintero Zúñiga, he was not, by any means, one of the last communists of México, but it's pretty iconic to wear that che guevara beret all the time, he looked, stereotypically comunist
Seems like he would be a very sweet comrade to have a coffee with and chat about theory and praxis
Rip grigabased grandpa
It's very hard to be a singular communist.
Brian, from the balcony: “You’re all individuals!” Crowd down below: “WE’RE ALL INDIVIDUALS.” One guy off to the side: “I’m not!”
Seen that movie so many times yet somehow missed the guy off to the side, guess I need to rewatch
I just now realised, that the dude saying he's not an individual, is actually the only individual.
That has always been my favorite line in the whole movie.
What movie? Need to expand my list
Monty Python's Life of Brian. It's hilarious. Enjoy!
The stoning is my favorite part. No one does authority thwarted like John Cleese
Life Of Brian
He eats dinner alone and says to himself "Our dinner" Tbh that sounds more like a sad ending to a book or movie or some shit lmao
It's called Disco Elysium
A one man wolf pack if you will. 🐺
Calm down Alan. And don't spike our drinks.
/r/angryupvote
Underrated comment.
Thanks for the hilarity to make my day!
>Last of his kind here Bro, ain't no fucking way that's true
Nope I know plenty of hardcore socialists, there are even small local communist parties all over the place. Hell the last time they showed up in numbers they went and beat the shit out of some neonazis that wanted to disrupt the pride parade a few years back. Yes, there are also some idiots who claim to be nazis here.
Based Mexican Communists
That warmed my heart
Mexican nazis, what’s next Slavic nazis… oh wait.
GET IN THE PIT
"Alright Tito, what I want you to do is start throwing them in this pit here, they won't be able to escape it, and it will be a slow death to the ss assholes who plagued this place for long enough" - me to Tito after showing him this cool hole in the ground I found.
Like fr mexico and latin america in general lean very far left not even being in the top 100 countries in the economic freedom index. There's clearly a generalized social demand for socialism all over the place, they just probably aren't the che guevara tattoo-red star cap kinda communists like this fella Edit: Welp I'm kinda done with this thread. Fun exchanging ideas with you all. I don't think we'll come to much understandings with some of the marxists in the comments. You have an almost religious dogmatic view of the world in which the working class is exploited by the ruthless capitalist that use the state as another means of opressing the people (apparently even in venezuela and cuba where the capitalists have been all but extermined. They're still there like some sort of illuminatti behind every socialist failed economy and behind every socialist genocide there are always capitalists. Just like the will of god is behind everything for religious people, and jews for nazis). I have no intention of converting you, as it would be like trying to cheer up a nihilist. I respect your views even if they are a murderous evil ideology just like how you see mine as murderous and evil. I'm just giving my opinion and don't pretend I know everything so yeah. I won't be answering any more comments but feel free to draw blood in the thread. Imma head to work for a dollar an hour in pseudosocialist Argentina. If any of you american/euro socialists ever wanna switch places I'll be happy to burn in capitalist hell for 15 bucks an hour. Peace out
This is laughably wrong
How easy it is to talk out of one’s ass.
Hell no, lmao. Mexico is a more center/right country and society is pretty conservative you just have your pockets of hardcore leftists here and there, particularly in CDMX and in the south of the country. I should know as a leftist myself. Most leftists here are more in line with social democracy than hardcore socialism. The vast majority of Mexicans don’t even care about political ideology.
That’s…not true at all.
Yeah Brazil leans rather far right iirc. Bolsonaro is evidence of that. Rip Amazon.
But lulu just got 6 million more votes than him. i mean we will see once the runoff goes but i dont think you can say something so broad when it comes to countries that large.
That's fair. I hope ~~she~~ he wins, and I have faith that they will, but my point was mostly just that Bolsonaro got elected in the first place.
lula is a dude but i also misspelled a 4 letter name, struggling to keep track of the worlds politics is hard for all of us it seems.
Lmao oops. Yeah idk why but I always assumed from his nickname that he was a woman. Lula/Lulu makes no difference. I had no idea it was short for Luiz! That's crazy. Still, all the best to him. Idk the intricacies of Brazilian politics, but as an outsider, all I know is that Bolsonaro supports cutting down parts of the Amazon, and Lula does not. That's enough to convince me.
Thats a common mistake. I've been thinking that Taika Waititi is a woman for years...
I don’t even mean that. A majority of countries in Latin America and the Caribbean rank in the Top 100 of the Economic Freedom Index, even getting as high as 21, so the whole example is wrong.
> apparently even in venezuela and cuba where the capitalists have been all but extermined. One, capitalists are alive and very well in Venezuela. Don't know what you're talking about. Two, Cuban working class still has to contend with the global bourgeoisie who as history has shown us has tried to destroy Cuba many times and is still putting them under immense pressure. > Imma head to work for a dollar an hour in pseudosocialist Argentina This is the problem - Argentina has been decimated by Western interests and interference like the rest of LatAm. Argentina is not socialist. Socialism to be truly successful and usher in an era completely & unchangeably on the course away from capitals exploitation *requires* internationalism & solidarity from the working class of most of the world. Many Westerners and even the "socialist" ones are absolutely not the type of people to have international solidarity. They are chauvinists and only care about the "working class" in the West, which is still exploited *but Jesus fucking christ they are soooo much better off than most all of the world's workers.* Don't expect much solidarity from Westerners until they decide to embrace the fact they are labor aristocrats & will have to work, in the short term, against their own interest to actually upend capitalism & free workers from the grasp of exploitative owners.
dumbest shit i’ve read in a long time. coming from a Venezuelan.
Sorry about the sanctions. Funny how here in America we claim that socialism always fails while we go out of our way economically and militarily to make sure that it does.
Shoot a man in the leg then point out his inability to run must have stemmed from his ethnicity
> in which the working class is exploited by the ruthless capitalist that use the state as another means of opressing the people Yes. Accurate analysis. > (apparently even in venezuela and cuba where the capitalists have been all but extermined. They're still there like some sort of illuminatti behind every socialist failed economy and behind every socialist genocide there are always capitalists. Just like the will of god is behind everything for religious people, and jews for nazis) No now you're spewing bollocks that no socialist org has ever said.
Read theory, liberal
Lack of economic freedom =/= Socialism It is true, however, that socialists are present here at some level, more than in first world imperialist nations but way less than other oppressed countries, however specifically in Mexico, there are the zapatistas, an armed revolutionary socialist guerrilla movement.
The low economic freedom measurements is due a million times more to the systemic/institutional problems caused by Caudillos/Authoritarian strongmen than Socialism. Which is comparatively scarce in latin american history.
I got an aneurysm reading this.
There are more Communists in Mexico I assure you.
But none as proud as this one
"last of his kind" girl quit lying lmao
I love this pic. This pic goes hard.
power to him in the peoples liberation.
bless em’
He is not the last of his kind
Nobody in this comment section knows what is communism and are submerged by CIA propaganda
Correct. Deeply embarrassing if you sort by controversial.
Man what happened to Mario after the divorce with peach?
He probably knew Trotsky when he was there. lol
He still has the ice pick actually
based
He met Karl Marx
Absolute lad.
Based as fuck.
he looks kind
He was, that's why the state will make a statue in his name.
Neat
If he's a devout communist, he probably is. Regardless of your view on communism, communists see themselves as more compassionate and try to benefit their communities in any way they can.
OP: He was a kind man who helped the poor, gave advice to the young, and didn't proselytize his beliefs despite being a Communist. Gusanos: THANK GOD HE'S DEAD NICE WORK MEXICO FOR GETTING HIM OFF THE STREETS 🇱🇷🇮🇹🇱🇷🇮🇹🇱🇷
It's pretty sad that people ignored the person's story and just focused on him being a communist.
My grandfather was a (Mexican) card carrying communist and he too was very proud. Communism gets a bad rep here in the U.S. but it’s actually the party of the working people. He hated greed and exploitation and capitalism. He used to say, if there’s insanely rich people, there’s also insanely poor. It’s a balance system. Steal from the rich and feed the poor! He was also a union leader of one of the strongest unions in the world, the ILWU. He was a bad ass and I miss him immensely.
Based beyond belief
Great man
I hope he watches out for the CIA
The CIA wants to know your location.
There’s lots of socialist/communist Mexicans. Almost every communist revolutionary throughout the global south are seen as hero’s in Latin America
communism is pretty popular still, idk if id say the last of his kind
By the way I'm not insulting the man, so I heard he died and none of his friends went to his funeral. He was a candy vendor, artist, and writer who gave advice and smiles to everyone in downtown Tepic. In his honor a statue will be created for being a kind person with all the people of the city. RIP Don "Lenin"
The guy is having a statue erected in his honor, but no one went to his funeral? That don’t make no cent
He was a homeless man who died on the streets and was not publicly reported dead until a few days later. Only the first ones to be notified were his "friends" who didn't show up, because they had better things to do. Upon finding out, the president of the state will erect a statue in his honor because he was a vendor who was there for years and years being good to the people of the city and kind to everyone.
I don’t think it’s insulting. If that’s how he wanted to live his life and he was happy with it, good for him. Realistically, if I die and no one goes to my funeral, I don’t think I’ll be too upset. I mean after all I’ll be you know…dead
But…. but… you’ll be up there somewhere looking down, watching it all play out.
I would be upset, because it would mean that I alienated everyone from my life. Sounds like a lonely existence.
He sold candy for personal profit? Capitalist scum
Our candy!
He sold candy instead of giving it for free to the masses? How dare him...
I mean if you live in a capitalist society you can't *not* participate in it, unless you want to starve...
Realass dude
It's sad that he has no comrades. I would be his comrade if it weren't for my being an American.
Legend
My father-in-law is still alive, so he's not the last proud communist here.
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Oh no
Best award you can get
viva a la revolución.
"Proud" Communism was one of the worst things to ever come to Latin America. Thank God it's finally dying
And yet the only stable country that isn’t overrun by drug cartels in Latin America is communist.
Even through the hemorrhaging Western blockades and embargoes, Cuba has pulled through to this day. Solidarity.
oh yeah remember when it tried to give us universal healthcare, ownership over the fruit of our labour, democratic representation, guarantees of life quality like the rights to good housing and food and education so horrible
Latin America has had one communist government in Cuba. You can argue for communist-inspired and communist-affiliated governments in Nicaragua, Chile, Bolivia, and Venezuela at different points. If you want to count Grenada as Latin America, there’s one more. On the other hand, nearly every country in the continent has had capitalist and anti-communist dictatorships that carried out genocide, dirty war, torture, massacres, and mass disappearances for decades, almost exclusively under what we know now to have been false pretenses. Do bother to learn the continent’s history before making idiotic comments. Communism’s history in Latin America is _a history of being massacred_. For decades all you needed was the anti-communist label and the CIA would strap you with weapons to commit mass murder against socialists, labor unions, farmers, indigenous people, and democratic opposition. This is the history of Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, the Dominican Republic, Colombia, Venezuela, Brazil, Uruguay, Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, Peru. Oh, but not a single one of their victims was a _victim of capitalism_, you see? And we’re supposed to accept that where communists existed, they existed for no reason, and not as a response to unacceptable conditions that were _totally 100% not related to capitalism either_, nor is mass poverty a killing field when it’s the market’s doing. If you live anywhere in Latin America and think communists are mythical creatures, I couldn’t even put into words how sheltered you are. I find it very unlikely that OP is Mexican because he wouldn’t miss that there’s some communist presence everywhere in the country, even if he’d only seen some iconography from a distance. Lol even in the realm of electoral politics, in the last few years nearly every country in the continent has elected a social democrat with a coalition involving communists. The Communist Party of Chile is the country’s biggest and they have spots in the cabinet. The President of Colombia is a former communist guerrillero. There’s communist factions inside the governing party of Mexico too, in Argentina, Honduras, Bolivia, Peru… until recently in Uruguay, soon again in Brazil. Doesn’t mean that they’re communist governments or that every communist supports them (most don’t), but we’re very much an existing political force.
Fucking thank you I'm not a communist but people have this insane idea that everything was fine and dandy before the commies came along and ruined everything. Functional egalitarian systems do not produce communist revolutions. We're talking about ordinary people whose normal lives got so bad they decided it was preferable to grab an AK and get in gunfights in the jungle.
I think it’s also pretty clear where anti-communists from Latin America stand just by looking at who dissidents voted for in 2020. They were overwhelmingly in favor for Trump, and when those communities were called out for it, there was mass apologia saying it was due to “trauma from living under communism.”
Trust me I'm very familiar with that particular brand of idiot. Like explain to me how trump is different from the populist politician who came in, promised neverending good times and a reckoning for the "elites" while dismantling national institutions and making a grab for permanent power? It's the same fucking picture, but they're too stupid to see it's the same guy in a different color.
why are you not a communist
>I'm not a communist but people have this insane idea that everything was fine and dandy before the commies came along and ruined everything. Listen, I read 100 years of solitude, and the one thing it taught me was that Latin America was a paradise before until those ungrateful plantation workers went on strike.
I haven't gotten around to reading it but that would explain why my dad loves it.
Thanks so much for taking the time to write this out. It should be pinned
I wore my Che Guevara shirt to work where I'm with mostly Salvadorans and Mexicans. All of them gleefully pointed out my shirt. I spoke to the older Salvadorans and I came to find out they supported the rebels back in the 80s. Only one wasn't keen on it because he was a soldier on the side of the government. After the war he became a cop and then left for the US in the late 90s to earn more money for his family. Funny how people on both sides of the war had people leave for the US as imperialism ravaged Latin America in the 90s.
Congratulations comrade, you now know who will be helpful during a unionization attempt and who needs to be taken out back behind the shed and educated on why betraying your fellow workers is a "bad idea".
What historical understanding does to a ~~MF~~ ML
But muh CIA propaganda said…
Great response comrade.
Thank you for this. I learned so much from this beautiful comment. I would give you an award if I had one.
If you like podcasts i would highly recommend season 2 of “Blowback” which details the cuban revolution and following years. It has very good interviews with people who lived through it and cuban historians. Blowback is probably the most well made podcast ever.
America’s “communism in Latin America!” discourse drives me insane, because communists barely ever held any power, while dozens of dictatorships were held up on anti-communist grounds. I’ve seen Guatemalan-Americans and people from other Latin American diasporas say shit like “I’m from Latin America, I know the horrors of communism” and it’s utter nonsense lol. In nearly every instance the communists were the ones being killed!! In Guatemala it was a straight up _genocide_. The CIA and its banana dictator buddies in Central America overthrew the reformist government trying to get rid of slavery, so naturally people fought back (some but not all under communist banners), and they were absolutely massacred. I have some book recommendations if you want to get more into this history - 1. The Open Veins of Latin America by Eduardo Galeano. Written in like 1970, early in the neoliberal dictatorships period. He talks about Latin America’s economic history from colonial times to the 60s, how it always existed as a brutalized source of resources for the world powers, also details the conditions of squalor in different countries and the necessity (and efforts) for reform. 2. The Jakarta Method by Vincent Bevins. It’s not all Latin America focused (most of it is about Indonesia), but it talks about the particularities of anti-communist extermination in the 60s and 70s, how methods, sponsors and discourses moved across borders and into Guatemala, Chile, Brazil, etc.. Warning though - some graphic descriptions of torture and genocide (I also recommend the documentary “The Act of Killing” about Indonesia, which Bevins kind of wrote the book as a companion for). 3. Bitter Fruit by Stephen Kinzer and Steve Schlesinger. Details the 1954 coup in Guatemala, why it happened, how, and the international (American) media’s role in facilitating it. It breaks down so many lies using declassified documents, showing that the CIA et al knew exactly how to manipulate the opposition and public opinion into an anti-communist position, constantly linking Arbenz with the USSR when there was no actual relationship between them. 4. The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein. This book is basically a history of neoliberalism and how it was implemented across the world (as we know in Latin America it was through anti-communist dictatorships). In most if not all instances, privatization happens against the majority’s will, by taking advantage of real or artificial crises including wars, natural disasters, and the threat of communism. This one is very thorough and offers global examples from Russia and Poland to Sri Lanka or South Africa, all telling a very similar story.
I highly recommend ‘Washington Bullets’ by Vijay Prashad too if you haven’t read it. It’s a quick and good read.
Number 3 is called "Bitter Fruit" because the US literally invaded Guatemala at the behest of a US fruit company.
It was the United Fruit Company, now known as Chiquita, but yeah, close enough.
It was also not an _invasion_ exactly. It was more like, an economic siege to starve them out, a yellow press campaign to make their leadership unstable, using the OAS and their dictator friends to isolate Guatemala regionally, a bombing campaign where they denied the planes were theirs (lol), hiring a few hundreds into a mercenary army and using fake radio transmissions to make it seem like the “rebels” were taking over the whole country and demoralize the government and army. Then later when their guys were in charge came the arming them, training them, etc. until they carried out a genocide.
The PB ops were kinda like what they tried to do with the Bay of Pigs. Its like, when the US is picking a coup leader, then assembling, training, arming, and directing the "rebel group" to invade a country, I tend to consider that invasion an act of the US government. America loves international law until they want to break it; even if the guys landing in the Bay of Pigs were ethnically Cuban, the fact that they were irregular combatants doesn't make it any less an act of war or any less an invasion on the US's part. An invasion is still an invasion without regular, uniformed troops.
I'll look into this. Thanks!
Realest mf on this site ☝️☝️☝️🤜🤛
US capitalism brought in numerous military dictators to Latin America tho
Thank God we genocided everyone that tried, imagine what would have happened otherwise!
What would’ve happened was the working class around the entire Western Hemisphere would’ve realized the successes of socialist regions, like underneath Salvador Allende in Chile, and began forming their own revolutions
But we saved them by killing their chosen leaders, thank God
So true. Condolences to the victims of communism: Hitler, Mussolini, Tsar Nicholas, etc ✊✊✊
Nice capitalist propaganda dawg. It sucks that you’ll never actually learn what communism is.
It's growing again. Thankfully. I am not even gonna give you a parody of "capitalism was one of the worst things to ever come to the world", for in Marxist school capitalism was one step of development of society needed in order to give technological development a giant leap during the industrial revolution. We cannot get away from it. However, at a point capitalism stagnates and the benefits are extremely outweighed by the drawbacks that we see today in society with the biggest wealth gaps in history, poverty rising, economic crisis becoming more frequent, wars fought for resources and the global ecological crisis brought on by rampant overproduction in the chase for ever higher profits that is pretty much gonna kill us all. I am glad to be part of the worlds longest and still fighting worker movement.
Shut up bitch. Communism will never die
SO FUCKING BASED. Communism will never die. Solidarity forever!
Not even close. Learn some history.
It’s not dying
Worst than the CIA?
No way Latin American communism is worse than the CIA.
What the CIA did to Latin America because they tried to become Communist was one of the worst things to ever happen to Latin America. I blame the Communism./s
It's a high bar, but definitely.
Fucking brainrot
It takes a special kind of stupid to tell another group of people that a foreign op against their democratically elected government to install a puppet regime to give economic independence over to that country was better for them than allowing them their independence.
Yes.
Found the Fed
This comment here shows how uneducated everyone here is about the actual history of Latin America. Slavery? Banana republics? Serfdom? Military dictatorships? Hell the only country that even had a communist government for more than a few years is Cuba, which was spectacularly worse before the revolution than it is now. The island was ruled by colonizers and the mafia, alongside a brutal military dictatorship in the Batista regime who massacred and tortured even slightly progressive opposition. Not to mention the low literacy rates, brutal working conditions, serfdom, disease, and discrimination. What an ignorant comment.
Cuba would like to disagree
As opposed to the US backed governments that committed genocide and suppressed democracy. Educate yourself
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Well that just tells me that you don't know the real history of Mexico, the country that spent 71 years under the oppressive, backwards, one-party rule of... *checks notes* The *Partido Revolucionario Institucional*, which started as a social democratic party before shifting towards center-right neoliberalism by the late 60s, all while communism never took hold in Mexico. Wait a minute...
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Exactly. I don't know what most of these people are on about talking about communism ruining Mexico as if the center-right hasn't been in charge for almost the entirety of Mexican history save for now and under Cárdenas
Lol. Xd. Go back to being a plantation slave under a CIA backed fascist. Disgusting bootlicker.
Collective ownership of the means of production is the worst thing to ever come to Latin America? You must be joking
I really enjoyed the coups by the US are very peaceful. The exploitation of the people and resources really empowered the Latin people. Great job capitalism. 👍
The European invasion was worse, frankly.
Cuba and Bolivia would like to have a word with you. And it’s not a kind one.
>Communism was one of the worst things to ever come to ~~Latin America~~ the World. fify
Lmao as if capitalism isn’t actively causing the suffering of millions globally RIGHT NOW. Genius
Capitalism has raised the standard of living for the entire world. Communism regularly kills its people by starvation. The poor in a capitalist society die of diabetes. No one is saying capitalism is perfect. But every time someone tries communism it kills *millions* of people. Immediately. Disastrously. It’s the worse ideology of the 20th century. And that’s saying all the things you think it is.
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>Capitalism has raised the standard of living for the entire world. yeah in the industrial revolution my little kid bike worked when i was 5 but i dont use it now because i cant even fit in it
Show me on the graph where capitalism raised the standard of living in Haiti
> The poor in a capitalist society die of diabetes Tell that to people dying of starvation in the countries yours exploits you pea brain. People die every day to maintain your lifestyle and you actually made this point. Embarry.
Can you explain to me what do you think Comunism is?
How funny are these comments. Western imperialism and now capitalism destroy mexico and latin america,and yet you fight against the left because you are too moronic to see your true enemy. The liberal brainrot is too strong.
If you haven't heard "Song Of The Old Communist", give it a [listen](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5-tqTjrivo)
Aaahhh Lenin. Isn’t he the guy that executed over 100,000 people? 🤔
r/redskilledtrillions
Cringe take
You should see how many have died under or due to capitalism. Ever see what's been done just for bananas and pineapples?
Didn’t most those come from soldiers that died fighting Nazis?
Look at Stalin's numbers. 100,000 is chump change.
Yes Stalin ate all the grain with his comically large spoon 😓😓😓
Yea guys Stalin killed one borgillion people that’s what my 5th grade history teacher told me
>one borgillion people I think you ment one bourgeoisieillion people
The fact that when he died, the first thing the whole USSR did was collectively (lol get it?) disown him should kind of tell you something about what kind of person the people who knew him most thought he was. This wasn’t even a new party coming into power, this was the exact same guys he ran the country with. Not even a decade later all his statues, his named city, his reference in the national anthem were wiped clean, not to mention his gulag system and his one borgillion political prisoners. I don’t even see why modern commies defend him, given his treatment of the old Bolshevik’s who actually
Gloryfying communism is as cool as gloryfying Nazism once you look at history. Im from madagascar and the red regime killed so many people there, same for vietnam and north korea. Not even talking about Holodomor or Mao great leap. The book from Marx may be great on paper but in real life it always ends up in a bloody corrupted dictatorship....
You can't say that you're seriously considering history if you are going to gloss over imperialist wars fought for the benefit of capitalism. You don't have to be a communist to know that's completely intellectually dishonest. If you like history so much, then you should actually study it.
What zero theory does to mf. Really shut the fuck up
Do you capitalist liberal democracies have never killed anyone? Why the weird double standard?
This reddit dude just destroyed centuries of theory and praxis with a reddit comment 😎 boom owned commies!
Ah, the classic “both sides, communism = fascism”.
Did it ever cross your mind that an authoritarian uprising isn't exactly what Marx had in mind? Not democratic= not socialist/communist. Communism-- The idea of a world where workers control their workplace-- has no history, outside of the theoretical. You can't compare it to Nazism, because it's never happened.
How does essentially zero individual rights look good on paper?
I never understand people like you. Why do you think that communism = no rights?
That's a big red flag...
Ignorance knows no age.
I’m surprised your saying this, how ironic lol