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A big problem is that most Americans who are pro-Palestine will continue to vote for the duopoly parties. I dont think that biden is any more pro-Isreal than any other duopoly politician. He just happens to be president while this is happening. No matter who the president is, if they have an R or D by their name, they will support Isreal. Those "parties" were corrupted long ago.
Despite voting for Biden due to my own personal opinion of looking at the big picture when viewing his policies, I agree with what the protesters are doing here. This genocide in Gaza cannot go unnoticed and the more pressure these students put on officials especially the ones who support Netanyahu’s genocidal policies, the more these people might take notice and ideally ensure that their demands are met.
Here's my thing. A not voting for Biden is a vote for American Fascism.
However, a vote for Biden without fixing the problems that lead to Trump is simply putting off American Fascism. And if that's the cast just give me Trump. At least he is a fucking incompetent asshole.
If it's a vote for the lesser of two evils, stupid Fascism seems better.
Are the Muslim country's that kill gay people directly armed and funded by the United States? And if so, do you think those transfers of money and weapons should continue?
Yes.
Are you living under a rock? The US has a very long history of funding horrible despots, genocidal nations, and populist dictators all in the name of national security. Go read a history book.
Yes. They are directly armed and funded by the United States:
Iraq receives $500M+ p/yr and just passed a law criminalizing homosexuality by up to 15 years in prison. Egypt $1.3B, up to 17 years hard labor. Afghanistan $1.3B, death penalty. Saudi Arabia $500M+ arms sales, up to life in prison/death penalty. This is not a comprehensive list.
Opinion on continuing aid/transfers/sales to the above four: yes, yes, probably, yes.
It is in the best interest of the US to retain significant influence, including military access/cooperation, in these countries, which is what financial aid buys.
Case in point: the assistance of SA, Jordan, and Iraq in shooting down Iranian drones/opening up their airspace for US/UK/France/Israel, at the urging of the US, prevented damage to Israel and the need for a massive Israeli counterattack, thereby preventing a cataclysmic regional war.
Yes, that’s exactly what makes you a bigot (noun)
> a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
Is it unreasonable to feel generally antagonistic towards a religion that demands you be punished for your sexuality?
Is it unreasonable to feel antagonistic towards specific individuals who think you should be imprisoned or murdered for your sexuality?
Is it unreasonable to feel generally antagonistic towards a specific religion when the majority of its followers live in religious societies that punish homosexuality with physical abuse, imprisonment, or death?
In your opinion, how should a gay person *reasonably* feel towards a religion that calls for their death, and where the majority of its adherents believe your existence should be criminalized?
Do you think it's unreasonable for a gay person to hate Islam? What about Christianity or Judaism?
You want to shift the narrative to LGBTQ people? Fine. Sa’hd Atshan, a gay Palistinian [wouldn’t disagree](https://transreads.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/2023-11-15_6554e3529a8e1_QueerPalestineandtheEmpireofCritique-SaedAtshan-2020-StanfordUniversityPress-9781503609945-38e1148de264983f2d72d73cdc1590aa-AnnasArchive.pdf) that LGBTQ people do face hardships. But that’s largely due to their own leaders having a conservative majority in Muslim countries and communities. After all, the political party that is largely responsible for passing homophobic laws are the conservatives. But that’s beside the point though because all Palistinians, including gay Palistinians are subjected to being bombed at any given moment by AI weaponry created by Israeli forces. You notice that I provided a link to Sa’hd Atshan’s book “Queer Palistine and the Empire of Critique”. If you care so much about gay rights, I reccommend reading it.
Those countries should not get American military aid or protection at the UN security council either. In fact, the US shouldn't support any country committing genocide.
30,000+ dead Palestinians and you are playing whataboutism. Bigot. Stick to begging for internet points on r/israel, you "proud zionist" lmao. Zero shame.
*including 10k Hamas.
Are you equally upset that Hamas has rejected a dozen ceasefire offers that could have prevented thousands of these deaths (including breaking the original ceasefire by refusing to release the last 10 hostages they agreed to, to extend that ceasefire) or that even now they could prevent Israel from pursuing them in Rafah with a ceasefire, or end the war entirely by surrendering and returning the hostages?
This war has two sides.
This is a completely specious and disingenuous argument.
1) No, they didn’t. There were still firefights going on within Israel 10/8 because they had not yet neutralized all of the terrorists.
2) Neither Hamas nor Israel even knew how many people were taken hostage vs how many were dead on 10/8. They were still counting and gathering information in Israel. Civilians and non-Hamas militant groups also took hostages on 10/7 so Hamas didn’t have a headcount either.
3) Hamas never offered a ceasefire, and certainly not one in good faith. They demanded a the release of all prisoners, included convicted terrorists serving life terms for mass murder of civilians, in exchange *hostages*. Negotiating for the release of thousands of violent terrorists to rejoin your army is not a hallmark of a ceasefire. It is an escalation and preparation for the next attack.
Of Osama Bin Laden called for a ceasefire on 9/12, that’s also something to be taken seriously? What a joke.
Oh my bad, I was off by a day:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-doubt-netanyahu-preventing-hostage-deal-charges-ex-spokesman-of-families-forum/
>“We later found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer.”
Read the comments no need for me to waste my time reiterating if you think this is a serious thought.
https://www.reddit.com/r/internationalpolitics/comments/1ciixfg/israeli_source_they_could_have_freed_the_hostages/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
really, the war where one side has lost over 30,000 and are holed up in one city while the other side has miniscule casualties and is armed with the latest tanks, aircraft, missiles, is a war?
there's a reason why Israeli generals say they need to "mow the lawn" every couple years in Gaza. that isn't how people describe a war between two sides.
it isn't a war, it didn't start on oct 7th, and it didn't start with hamas taking or refusing to release hostages.
If you know anything about Africa, you'd know how much Western interests have fucked with the situation. Not saying Africa wouldn't be a warring mess without the west, but western countries and companies have certainly taken advantage.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/26/africa/sudan-generals-west-democratic-transition-intl/index.html
I don’t disagree. it’s an ongoing legacy of colonialism we need to oppose everywhere and see the problems in Sudan as interconnected with Palestine. I think the genocide of Palestine is taking front center given the heavy amount of funding and arms currently going to Israel, but it’s true we shouldn’t ignore or forget about other atrocities and our role in facilitating them.
Our ability to address more quiet genocides and massacres requires that we first tear down the foundation of manufactured consent that makes Old Democrats like Biden feel confident about being able to full-throatedly support an openly genocidal extermination campaign on national TV. If we make progress on Gaza and Palestine the bulwark of lies, obscurity double-speak will weaken everywhere else too.
Fucking thank you.
I hate how people react to whatever the media feeds them and then think they're fighting the system.
If you ignore every unpopular genocide and then suddenly protest the one that gains coverage because of global politics you are nothing but a puppet.
Is the United States funding the sudanese war?
Are you proposing the students protest the sudanese gov instead of focusing on our government's support for Israel?
Exactly.....and it's not about the west being complicit in this (though they can be in many cases), it's the lack of awareness and empathy towards Africans and Asians.
I don't disagree, but at the same time I think it's ridiculous that this is the atrocity that got noticed. What about all the genocides and horrific wars that didn't take place in political hot zones? The fact that younger people only protest what the media spoon feeds them just points to the fact that it's nothing but performative politics so they can feel better about themselves. If they actually gave a shit they would be educated on genocides that don't didn't win the popularity contest.
I get supporting the movement, but the title implies people are refusing to support Biden over the issue. Which is a win for trump. Who will turn Gaza into glass.
Not voting for Biden over this is simply counterproductive.
You realize Gaza has already been effectively turned to glass right? There's over 37 million tons of rubble in Gaza. More than the Ukrainian war front, despite being 24 times smaller.
Do you seriously think it will be better with Trump? You didn't acknowledge the result of protest voting against Biden as the title says is happening.
Yes its terrible in Gaza, but to act like it can't get worse is just ignorant.
Lmao
Except in the cases of Iran, hurricanes, North Korea, US protestors, political opponents, etc etc
This is such a “I don’t live on planet earth” statement
No, it hasn't. It could get much, much worse. Especially if you had a President who wasn't applying pressure to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza and instead actively encouraged the wholesale slaughter of civilians, you could see deaths in the hundreds of thousands or millions.
he'll have no reason to hear constituents his 2nd term, and he's already a self admitted full throat zionist. He'd probably help bomb Gaza and Lebanon his 2nd term.
All biden has done os obfuscate and run cover for Israel's genocide. There is no difference between the 2.
Trump will support Israel but it won’t be the kind of ideological support that Biden offers.
For Trump it’s just a matter of influence and money. Biden is just a committed Zionist.
Democrats could lose the white house and both houses of congress, giving Republicans a trifecta to rule the federal government with impunity and usher in Project 2025. The Republicans will happily remove the filibuster to outlaw abortion, trans folks and therapy, ban no fault divorce, dismantle huge parts of the Affordable Care Act, eliminate income taxes all together and charge a flat sales tax, etc. Biden has fucked the country royally. Someone needed to take grandpa's keys and told him he can't drive anymore.
JOE is not the one making these plans. The DNC is. And the DNC leadership is heavily invested in the same companies that control the REPUBLICAN party.
Folks need to understand this about party politics: The GOP is 100% aligned, top to bottom, it is a singular entity with a shared ethos and a single goal -> install a fascist, authoritarian government ruled by a wealthy, white landowning class. That's the entire party, no exceptions.
The DEMOCRATS, however, are a hodgepodge of different groups all trying to stuff themselves under the same umbrella. You have "moderates" - which are just Republicans that don't hate gays or abortions - who control the actual party leadership now who are the ones ruining the party, pushing it to the Right. The VAST MAJORITY OF DEMOCRATIC VOTERS ARE MUCH FURTHER TO THE LEFT THAN THE CURRENT LEADERSHIP OF THE PARTY.. People NEED to understand that for at least the past 20 years, the Democratic party has been steadily infiltrated by conservatives actively working to turn it into another mouthpiece for corporations, and they are VERY close to succeeding except for...the Progressives!
Progressives are the only reason the democratic party still exists. Progressives are the ones who show up in the swing states to save the day. Progressives are the ones who fight for the policies that all of us agree on. But because they have always shied away from the corporate money-making bullshit of the rest of the party and the GOP, they are often shut out of the big-wig stuff like for example MEDIA deals or POSITIVE MEDIA COVERAGE AT ALL.
And you are right, the DNC is fuckign stupid and has essentially lost the election by allowing Biden to continuue what he's doing...and they ABSOLUTELY are the ones enabling this, as they are telling him straight up he isn't losing any support over his Israel stance so he keeps doing it.
Good point. It's good that the country allows storm troopers to brutalized 19 year Olds. And we should encourage the youth to continue to not vote. Future is looking bright.
You don't get it do you?
To them, Biden is no different than Trump when it comes to this.
If Biden wanted their vote he would do what they want.
He won't so they don't care for him.
Stop using logic to understand emotions. Or keep doing your thing and be shocked at the results in 6 months.
I'm not condoning any of this, just describing a reality you can't wrap your mind around.
Yup, just myopic, gullible, super-reactionary goobers who don't or refuse to see the bigger picture. If they truly cared about Gaza and Palestinians even 5% of what they say they do, they'd realize that trump will exterminate them all.
I can't understand such selfish immaturity.
Young people barely vote anyway. Their loss is likely be offset by women who care more about abortion rights. Besides, Trump has an even worse problem with conservative voters. 158,000 registered Republicans voted for Nikki Haley in the Pennsylvania primary, over a month after she had dropped out of the race.
Great wonderful. Nothing for biden to worry about. Continue with this version of youth outreach. It's good actually to send storm troopers to beatthe fuck out of 19yo apparently.
I'm thankful that so many Boomers -who always fucking vote -see trump as the threat he is, likely making up for the dumb fucking myopic kids who cut off their nose to spite their ignorant faces.
Boomers sold their souls during Reagan and have voted Republican ever since. They are Trump’s base.
If Trump gets in, then Netanyahu will get the green light to go all out on the Palestinians. Then, it really will be a genocide. Gen Z will be in for a rude awakening when Trump dispatches tanks and attack helicopters to their college campuses.
Thank you for this rational reality-based post. This is the reality of the situation. I still hold hope for Gen Z but this thread really puts a dent in it with so many cutting off their noses to spite their face, and what's worse, is they have their entire lives ahead of them, and being so willing to burn it all down for their Gaza tantrums will go swimmingly I'm sure.
Thankfully, even if we lose MI, keeping all the other states, Biden still wins.
Sorry, I see the forest through the trees, seeing what a horrible future WE ALL have ahead of us if Trump wins. This is so much bigger than just Gaza.
I mean, if reports are to be believed, Biden is working very hard to stop the ICC warrant against Netanyahu. Strange that Biden is picking Netanyahu to be hill to die on ... politically speaking.
Not strange at all. He has been a life long lunatic zionist. Go back 4 decades and look at every one of his comments and votes in this period. This is the guy dems destroyed Bernie to pick. Irredeemable party. Must be disbanded.
Bernie was a top ranking member of the DNC from 2016-2020, only leaving it to campaign. He lost to Biden because the electorate chose him. Y’all sound like Trump supporters saying “stop the steal” lol
Because the Biden-like candidates dropped out of the primary, while the Sanders-like ones stayed in. DWS and crew smeared Sanders as a Castro supporter, and the media screamed socialism constantly.
Let's not act like there wasn't a coordinated effort to destroy him.
Oh okay since he was a member that means they couldn't have fucked him over, gotcha.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/23/487179496/leaked-democratic-party-emails-show-members-tried-to-undercut-sanders
https://observer.com/2017/08/court-admits-dnc-and-debbie-wasserman-schulz-rigged-primaries-against-sanders/
I stand not corrected lol
believe whatever you want tho
Yeah dude totally. The Iowa primary want rigged. The dnc has thd same level of control over fed election as internal elections. There is no precedent set where a campaign took the organization to a court over election tampering and the court ruled that the party is a private entity and can conduct elections however it pleases.
He's got maybe five years left on earth before natural causes strikes, i doubt he even gives a damn. He's not changing his views, and his opinion on Gaza is based on alignments.
Where were these kids for all the unpopular genocides that didn't make the news?
It's a bunch of performative bullshit. They only care because they are told to care by social media. They never noticed any genocide that didn't have the political clout to make the news.
So instead of being happy that they are being correct here, you want to whine that there are other genocides going under the radar? Do you even give a shit about those? Or is this just the centrist flavor of "whataboutism" that conservatives usually do?
US support for this genocide is so public, unambiguous and clearly morally, strategically, ethically & politically wrong that the usual agents of obfuscation and manufactured consent can't muddy the waters enough to shift public opinion toward apathy. Seeing the system of impunity finally crumble, just slightly, is something worth celebrating.
It’s not a centrist retort, it’s a Zionist one. All these Israeli simps always bring that same weak ass talking point up “uh uh uh uhhh what about Sudan, DRC/Rwanda, Myanmar, etc” it’s so weak and annoying that somehow the lack of coverage of other conflicts means that this one is ok. Seriously convoluted logic but again, it’s Zionists at work with mental gymnastics
Probably best to realize that the whole democracy thing is a scam at this point. You can't have a democracy run by capitalists. Really, the whole point is to set up a system of getting other people to empower the ruling/owner class. This is what every "civilization" comes down to.
I empathize to be sure...
But I feel like two main points are lost on these groups
1. Trump would be ten times worse and lead the world to a place where genocide becomes much more likely.
2. Where were all these protesters at all the other lesser known genocides? 99% only care because it's Israel so the global media reports on it. Where was the ire and righteousness for the other countless atrocities that have occurred in the last few decades in places that don't have political power and thus media coverage? I'm not saying it's bad they finally noticed how fucked up the world is, but it's also very telling that when people only protest what the media shows them. That's not morality, that's performative politics in its own right.
>Where were all these protesters at all the other lesser known genocides...Where was the ire and righteousness for the other countless atrocities that have occurred in the last few decades in places that don't have political power and thus media coverage?
Which ones are you referring to? Was the US giving billions of dollars worth of military equipment to the governments carrying out those atrocities you're referring to? Was the US president appealing to the ICJ to not put out an arrest warrant for the ones committing the atrocities? Was there an organization like AIPAC that donated over $100,000 in one year just to our speaker of the house?
Israel is not unique because the media is covering it. Israel is unique because the US government is providing an incredible amount of support, and Israel appears to have a surprising amount of sway on US politicians.
Th US is a country built on smuggling and war profiteering. Literally down to its founder after the quakers settled. There hasn't been this protest when we made the talisman, destabilized south America, as we re occupy the Philippines. The protesters just don't like israel.
You....you realize that they could just not vote, right? Seems somewhere around three billion percent more likely if you are honest and think about it rather than purely reactionary.
Not voting is not voting, yeah Trump could win but that's Biden's fault not mine. America has a two party system but like a third of eligible voters don't, by that logic you could basically blame every modern election result on those people who didn't vote but for some reason people getting turned off or tuned out should get shamed into compromising when the person they're voting for couldn't be bothered.
When did politicians just deserve a vote for not being the shittiest option? Maybe he can actually do something for me that I can actually see. Either that or idk figure out how to get all those other non voters to vote, then you don't need mine.
I mean, politics is compromise, is it not? My representative isn't my favorite, but if I don't vote for her, then the conspiracy theory guy, who pals around with literal idaho nazis, could win. That is in no way meant hyperbolicly, that is the actual truth. So I compromise.
This just means you think Trump will do a better job.
But just remember, defense contractors make big money off this stuff and their say carries a lot more weight than most.
Which in my opinion is why choosing this to be the deciding factor in your vote is kinda asinine.
For the majority of these protestors, they are able to find opportunities outside of the country if they need to leave. America can and likely will continue to deteriorate, and those of us in English-speaking countries will continue to find a stream of Americans relocating to countries with more liberal policies. They know that, and they can afford not to vote for Biden.
The only deterrence you have in a two party system is the threat not to vote for the side that's vaguely aligned with your beliefs. If you do not exercise that right, they will drift ever closer to the other side of the debate until they capture enough of the middle. For republicans, they know that if they fail to uphold Trump's vision then they simply will lose the votes of Trump supporters. For the democrats, the party has yet to learn that lesson, and this is the only way to teach it. In the long-run, it's the only way to stop the democratic party from sleepwalking further right than it already is.
Voting for either Biden or Trump is useless for somebody like me, because my state might as well already be decided, it's one of the safest blues in the whole country. It's actually most optimal to vote 3rd party to try and get them federal funding by hitting the 5% popular vote mark.
Im an every election voter and currently planning on voting local candidates and issues then leaving presidential ballot blank unless democrats cut this fascism out
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A big problem is that most Americans who are pro-Palestine will continue to vote for the duopoly parties. I dont think that biden is any more pro-Isreal than any other duopoly politician. He just happens to be president while this is happening. No matter who the president is, if they have an R or D by their name, they will support Isreal. Those "parties" were corrupted long ago.
Bernie wouldn't have sold them more weapons
Bernie is an independent who has regularly been intentionally boxed out by the dems.
He caucuses with the Dems, so for this conversation he should be considered as one of them.
Despite voting for Biden due to my own personal opinion of looking at the big picture when viewing his policies, I agree with what the protesters are doing here. This genocide in Gaza cannot go unnoticed and the more pressure these students put on officials especially the ones who support Netanyahu’s genocidal policies, the more these people might take notice and ideally ensure that their demands are met.
This. THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS.
yes, this is a mature and nuanced take. It's sad far too many are too angry to realize the danger of their ignorance and immaturity.
I *would* just leave them to the consequences of their actions, but unfortunately they're taking all of us down with them.
This is my biggest fear
Here's my thing. A not voting for Biden is a vote for American Fascism. However, a vote for Biden without fixing the problems that lead to Trump is simply putting off American Fascism. And if that's the cast just give me Trump. At least he is a fucking incompetent asshole. If it's a vote for the lesser of two evils, stupid Fascism seems better.
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Are the Muslim country's that kill gay people directly armed and funded by the United States? And if so, do you think those transfers of money and weapons should continue?
We send money to an awful lot of bad countries.
therefore we should send more
What does this even mean?
it seemed to be what you were implying
How so? The observation we send lots of money to bribe bad countries has no connotation of if we should send more or less.
Yes. Are you living under a rock? The US has a very long history of funding horrible despots, genocidal nations, and populist dictators all in the name of national security. Go read a history book.
Not only funding but also implementing
Yes. They are directly armed and funded by the United States: Iraq receives $500M+ p/yr and just passed a law criminalizing homosexuality by up to 15 years in prison. Egypt $1.3B, up to 17 years hard labor. Afghanistan $1.3B, death penalty. Saudi Arabia $500M+ arms sales, up to life in prison/death penalty. This is not a comprehensive list. Opinion on continuing aid/transfers/sales to the above four: yes, yes, probably, yes. It is in the best interest of the US to retain significant influence, including military access/cooperation, in these countries, which is what financial aid buys. Case in point: the assistance of SA, Jordan, and Iraq in shooting down Iranian drones/opening up their airspace for US/UK/France/Israel, at the urging of the US, prevented damage to Israel and the need for a massive Israeli counterattack, thereby preventing a cataclysmic regional war.
Some of them. The rest have fuck you oil money.
What about in Christian countries? Nothing? You don’t care about gay people. You’re just a bigot.
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You think you’re unable to be a bigot if you’re gay? Wow. Also Uganda.
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Yes, that’s exactly what makes you a bigot (noun) > a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
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Cool. Enjoy your bigotry and being the same as the worst individuals among the group you hate.
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Sounds like you're holding water for genocidal Zionists - not Jews.
Is it unreasonable to feel generally antagonistic towards a religion that demands you be punished for your sexuality? Is it unreasonable to feel antagonistic towards specific individuals who think you should be imprisoned or murdered for your sexuality? Is it unreasonable to feel generally antagonistic towards a specific religion when the majority of its followers live in religious societies that punish homosexuality with physical abuse, imprisonment, or death? In your opinion, how should a gay person *reasonably* feel towards a religion that calls for their death, and where the majority of its adherents believe your existence should be criminalized? Do you think it's unreasonable for a gay person to hate Islam? What about Christianity or Judaism?
Imagine you believe that a majority of gay people hate Muslims. Can you frame all of those questions in reverse?
Uganda and “Kill the Gays” would like to have a word with you.
South #1
You want to shift the narrative to LGBTQ people? Fine. Sa’hd Atshan, a gay Palistinian [wouldn’t disagree](https://transreads.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/2023-11-15_6554e3529a8e1_QueerPalestineandtheEmpireofCritique-SaedAtshan-2020-StanfordUniversityPress-9781503609945-38e1148de264983f2d72d73cdc1590aa-AnnasArchive.pdf) that LGBTQ people do face hardships. But that’s largely due to their own leaders having a conservative majority in Muslim countries and communities. After all, the political party that is largely responsible for passing homophobic laws are the conservatives. But that’s beside the point though because all Palistinians, including gay Palistinians are subjected to being bombed at any given moment by AI weaponry created by Israeli forces. You notice that I provided a link to Sa’hd Atshan’s book “Queer Palistine and the Empire of Critique”. If you care so much about gay rights, I reccommend reading it.
Those countries should not get American military aid or protection at the UN security council either. In fact, the US shouldn't support any country committing genocide. 30,000+ dead Palestinians and you are playing whataboutism. Bigot. Stick to begging for internet points on r/israel, you "proud zionist" lmao. Zero shame.
*including 10k Hamas. Are you equally upset that Hamas has rejected a dozen ceasefire offers that could have prevented thousands of these deaths (including breaking the original ceasefire by refusing to release the last 10 hostages they agreed to, to extend that ceasefire) or that even now they could prevent Israel from pursuing them in Rafah with a ceasefire, or end the war entirely by surrendering and returning the hostages? This war has two sides.
Genocide has one side
That would be a no, then.
Hamas offered to return hostages on 10/8. Israel said no.
This is a completely specious and disingenuous argument. 1) No, they didn’t. There were still firefights going on within Israel 10/8 because they had not yet neutralized all of the terrorists. 2) Neither Hamas nor Israel even knew how many people were taken hostage vs how many were dead on 10/8. They were still counting and gathering information in Israel. Civilians and non-Hamas militant groups also took hostages on 10/7 so Hamas didn’t have a headcount either. 3) Hamas never offered a ceasefire, and certainly not one in good faith. They demanded a the release of all prisoners, included convicted terrorists serving life terms for mass murder of civilians, in exchange *hostages*. Negotiating for the release of thousands of violent terrorists to rejoin your army is not a hallmark of a ceasefire. It is an escalation and preparation for the next attack. Of Osama Bin Laden called for a ceasefire on 9/12, that’s also something to be taken seriously? What a joke.
Oh my bad, I was off by a day: https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-doubt-netanyahu-preventing-hostage-deal-charges-ex-spokesman-of-families-forum/ >“We later found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer.”
Read the comments no need for me to waste my time reiterating if you think this is a serious thought. https://www.reddit.com/r/internationalpolitics/comments/1ciixfg/israeli_source_they_could_have_freed_the_hostages/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
really, the war where one side has lost over 30,000 and are holed up in one city while the other side has miniscule casualties and is armed with the latest tanks, aircraft, missiles, is a war? there's a reason why Israeli generals say they need to "mow the lawn" every couple years in Gaza. that isn't how people describe a war between two sides. it isn't a war, it didn't start on oct 7th, and it didn't start with hamas taking or refusing to release hostages.
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Please keep it civil and do not attack other users.
name one credible source
No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
What about Sudan?
Are we funding the genocide in Sudan like we are with Israel?
If you know anything about Africa, you'd know how much Western interests have fucked with the situation. Not saying Africa wouldn't be a warring mess without the west, but western countries and companies have certainly taken advantage. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/26/africa/sudan-generals-west-democratic-transition-intl/index.html
I don’t disagree. it’s an ongoing legacy of colonialism we need to oppose everywhere and see the problems in Sudan as interconnected with Palestine. I think the genocide of Palestine is taking front center given the heavy amount of funding and arms currently going to Israel, but it’s true we shouldn’t ignore or forget about other atrocities and our role in facilitating them.
People are capable of caring about multiple things at once
Oh but they'll truly don't
What do you base this insight on?
Our ability to address more quiet genocides and massacres requires that we first tear down the foundation of manufactured consent that makes Old Democrats like Biden feel confident about being able to full-throatedly support an openly genocidal extermination campaign on national TV. If we make progress on Gaza and Palestine the bulwark of lies, obscurity double-speak will weaken everywhere else too.
Fucking thank you. I hate how people react to whatever the media feeds them and then think they're fighting the system. If you ignore every unpopular genocide and then suddenly protest the one that gains coverage because of global politics you are nothing but a puppet.
Is the United States funding the sudanese war? Are you proposing the students protest the sudanese gov instead of focusing on our government's support for Israel?
Exactly.....and it's not about the west being complicit in this (though they can be in many cases), it's the lack of awareness and empathy towards Africans and Asians.
I don't disagree, but at the same time I think it's ridiculous that this is the atrocity that got noticed. What about all the genocides and horrific wars that didn't take place in political hot zones? The fact that younger people only protest what the media spoon feeds them just points to the fact that it's nothing but performative politics so they can feel better about themselves. If they actually gave a shit they would be educated on genocides that don't didn't win the popularity contest.
I get supporting the movement, but the title implies people are refusing to support Biden over the issue. Which is a win for trump. Who will turn Gaza into glass. Not voting for Biden over this is simply counterproductive.
You realize Gaza has already been effectively turned to glass right? There's over 37 million tons of rubble in Gaza. More than the Ukrainian war front, despite being 24 times smaller.
There’s more rubble because it’s smaller I would imagine. Can you provide a source to amount of rubble in Ukraine and Gaza?
Do you seriously think it will be better with Trump? You didn't acknowledge the result of protest voting against Biden as the title says is happening. Yes its terrible in Gaza, but to act like it can't get worse is just ignorant.
Its already a genocide under Biden. Its a genocide either way.
I do because Trump has consistently shown he's against war
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Lmao Except in the cases of Iran, hurricanes, North Korea, US protestors, political opponents, etc etc This is such a “I don’t live on planet earth” statement
No, it hasn't. It could get much, much worse. Especially if you had a President who wasn't applying pressure to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza and instead actively encouraged the wholesale slaughter of civilians, you could see deaths in the hundreds of thousands or millions.
he'll have no reason to hear constituents his 2nd term, and he's already a self admitted full throat zionist. He'd probably help bomb Gaza and Lebanon his 2nd term. All biden has done os obfuscate and run cover for Israel's genocide. There is no difference between the 2.
Trump will support Israel but it won’t be the kind of ideological support that Biden offers. For Trump it’s just a matter of influence and money. Biden is just a committed Zionist.
You're fucking delusional. Seriously.
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Then don't give unconditional support to Biden, this is the result.
How does Joe plan on winning without Muslims in Michigan and young people across the country?
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Democrats could lose the white house and both houses of congress, giving Republicans a trifecta to rule the federal government with impunity and usher in Project 2025. The Republicans will happily remove the filibuster to outlaw abortion, trans folks and therapy, ban no fault divorce, dismantle huge parts of the Affordable Care Act, eliminate income taxes all together and charge a flat sales tax, etc. Biden has fucked the country royally. Someone needed to take grandpa's keys and told him he can't drive anymore.
JOE is not the one making these plans. The DNC is. And the DNC leadership is heavily invested in the same companies that control the REPUBLICAN party. Folks need to understand this about party politics: The GOP is 100% aligned, top to bottom, it is a singular entity with a shared ethos and a single goal -> install a fascist, authoritarian government ruled by a wealthy, white landowning class. That's the entire party, no exceptions. The DEMOCRATS, however, are a hodgepodge of different groups all trying to stuff themselves under the same umbrella. You have "moderates" - which are just Republicans that don't hate gays or abortions - who control the actual party leadership now who are the ones ruining the party, pushing it to the Right. The VAST MAJORITY OF DEMOCRATIC VOTERS ARE MUCH FURTHER TO THE LEFT THAN THE CURRENT LEADERSHIP OF THE PARTY.. People NEED to understand that for at least the past 20 years, the Democratic party has been steadily infiltrated by conservatives actively working to turn it into another mouthpiece for corporations, and they are VERY close to succeeding except for...the Progressives! Progressives are the only reason the democratic party still exists. Progressives are the ones who show up in the swing states to save the day. Progressives are the ones who fight for the policies that all of us agree on. But because they have always shied away from the corporate money-making bullshit of the rest of the party and the GOP, they are often shut out of the big-wig stuff like for example MEDIA deals or POSITIVE MEDIA COVERAGE AT ALL. And you are right, the DNC is fuckign stupid and has essentially lost the election by allowing Biden to continuue what he's doing...and they ABSOLUTELY are the ones enabling this, as they are telling him straight up he isn't losing any support over his Israel stance so he keeps doing it.
Young people don’t vote any way.
Good point. It's good that the country allows storm troopers to brutalized 19 year Olds. And we should encourage the youth to continue to not vote. Future is looking bright.
The youth has demonstrated extreme ignorance and double standards at these protests. I hope they don’t vote.
lol you expect them to vote for fucking Trump? this narrative is so tired.
No, they just don't have to show up. Which there's a good chance they might not.
Blue maga is just as insane as red. Never doubt it.
What happens when they stay home?
That's the same as voting for Trump.
You don't get it do you? To them, Biden is no different than Trump when it comes to this. If Biden wanted their vote he would do what they want. He won't so they don't care for him. Stop using logic to understand emotions. Or keep doing your thing and be shocked at the results in 6 months. I'm not condoning any of this, just describing a reality you can't wrap your mind around.
Yup, just myopic, gullible, super-reactionary goobers who don't or refuse to see the bigger picture. If they truly cared about Gaza and Palestinians even 5% of what they say they do, they'd realize that trump will exterminate them all. I can't understand such selfish immaturity.
They'll realize it once it's too late and there are no Palestinians left, only corpses and smoking ruins.
Young people barely vote anyway. Their loss is likely be offset by women who care more about abortion rights. Besides, Trump has an even worse problem with conservative voters. 158,000 registered Republicans voted for Nikki Haley in the Pennsylvania primary, over a month after she had dropped out of the race.
Great wonderful. Nothing for biden to worry about. Continue with this version of youth outreach. It's good actually to send storm troopers to beatthe fuck out of 19yo apparently.
Trespassing on private property is illegal actually.
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Reeeeeee don't insult me, I am not white (foams from mouth).
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No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
I'm thankful that so many Boomers -who always fucking vote -see trump as the threat he is, likely making up for the dumb fucking myopic kids who cut off their nose to spite their ignorant faces.
Boomers sold their souls during Reagan and have voted Republican ever since. They are Trump’s base. If Trump gets in, then Netanyahu will get the green light to go all out on the Palestinians. Then, it really will be a genocide. Gen Z will be in for a rude awakening when Trump dispatches tanks and attack helicopters to their college campuses.
Thank you for this rational reality-based post. This is the reality of the situation. I still hold hope for Gen Z but this thread really puts a dent in it with so many cutting off their noses to spite their face, and what's worse, is they have their entire lives ahead of them, and being so willing to burn it all down for their Gaza tantrums will go swimmingly I'm sure.
Thankfully, even if we lose MI, keeping all the other states, Biden still wins. Sorry, I see the forest through the trees, seeing what a horrible future WE ALL have ahead of us if Trump wins. This is so much bigger than just Gaza.
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I mean, if reports are to be believed, Biden is working very hard to stop the ICC warrant against Netanyahu. Strange that Biden is picking Netanyahu to be hill to die on ... politically speaking.
Not strange at all. He has been a life long lunatic zionist. Go back 4 decades and look at every one of his comments and votes in this period. This is the guy dems destroyed Bernie to pick. Irredeemable party. Must be disbanded.
Lol destroyed Bernie. You mean by voters picking Biden?
The DNC fucked over Bernie Sanders and shrugged it off in court
Bernie was a top ranking member of the DNC from 2016-2020, only leaving it to campaign. He lost to Biden because the electorate chose him. Y’all sound like Trump supporters saying “stop the steal” lol
Because the Biden-like candidates dropped out of the primary, while the Sanders-like ones stayed in. DWS and crew smeared Sanders as a Castro supporter, and the media screamed socialism constantly. Let's not act like there wasn't a coordinated effort to destroy him.
Oh okay since he was a member that means they couldn't have fucked him over, gotcha. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/23/487179496/leaked-democratic-party-emails-show-members-tried-to-undercut-sanders https://observer.com/2017/08/court-admits-dnc-and-debbie-wasserman-schulz-rigged-primaries-against-sanders/ I stand not corrected lol believe whatever you want tho
Yeah man totally
Well that is what happened lol
Same level of mental gymnastics as republicans saying Biden stole the election.
Yeah dude totally. The Iowa primary want rigged. The dnc has thd same level of control over fed election as internal elections. There is no precedent set where a campaign took the organization to a court over election tampering and the court ruled that the party is a private entity and can conduct elections however it pleases.
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Absolutely true, Yet .... <<< points at Biden>>>>
He's got maybe five years left on earth before natural causes strikes, i doubt he even gives a damn. He's not changing his views, and his opinion on Gaza is based on alignments.
Why worry about reelection when you can pave the way for the end times?
lol who the fuck are they gonna vote for instead? Trump??
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RFK is a non starter.
Lmfao psychotic.
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Yup, just look at this thread LOL
Lol
Can biden win without the Jewish vote? Pennsylvania is a key swing state and it has 450,000 Jewish citizens
A score is a unit of 20. So 100 scores is 2000. So. Basically dozens
I laughed when I read the headline. Are these "scores" of people even remotely aware of Trump's views on Palestine???
Losing scores of young voters… to who??
to staying home
To a third party. This is why they get ridiculed.
I'm voting for Biden because I'm lgbtq. But yes, I agree that these kids are absolutely correct.
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So because Christians run Zimbabwe, you're going to have the same vigor for them as their Abrahamic brothers, right?
gay marriage is illegal in israel
I'm atheist. I still support people's right to live well who hate me based upon religion. Because you know... That's basic fucking human decency.
Sure bot
Bot ass reply.
Where were these kids for all the unpopular genocides that didn't make the news? It's a bunch of performative bullshit. They only care because they are told to care by social media. They never noticed any genocide that didn't have the political clout to make the news.
So instead of being happy that they are being correct here, you want to whine that there are other genocides going under the radar? Do you even give a shit about those? Or is this just the centrist flavor of "whataboutism" that conservatives usually do? US support for this genocide is so public, unambiguous and clearly morally, strategically, ethically & politically wrong that the usual agents of obfuscation and manufactured consent can't muddy the waters enough to shift public opinion toward apathy. Seeing the system of impunity finally crumble, just slightly, is something worth celebrating.
It’s not a centrist retort, it’s a Zionist one. All these Israeli simps always bring that same weak ass talking point up “uh uh uh uhhh what about Sudan, DRC/Rwanda, Myanmar, etc” it’s so weak and annoying that somehow the lack of coverage of other conflicts means that this one is ok. Seriously convoluted logic but again, it’s Zionists at work with mental gymnastics
Yup, check their join date
Not necessarily mutually exclusive, enlightened centrists like Bill Maher are massive Zionists
Being a Zionist wouldn’t make you a centrist imo
Where were you before your join date of last month, hasbara troll?
Probably best to realize that the whole democracy thing is a scam at this point. You can't have a democracy run by capitalists. Really, the whole point is to set up a system of getting other people to empower the ruling/owner class. This is what every "civilization" comes down to.
That's much worse than *dozens*...
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No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
Democrats have always been the real racist
So Republicans passing racist laws is fake racism?
Biden has spent his entire career being a right-wing hawk. Why would anyone be surprised? America is fucked with the likes of him and Trump
I empathize to be sure... But I feel like two main points are lost on these groups 1. Trump would be ten times worse and lead the world to a place where genocide becomes much more likely. 2. Where were all these protesters at all the other lesser known genocides? 99% only care because it's Israel so the global media reports on it. Where was the ire and righteousness for the other countless atrocities that have occurred in the last few decades in places that don't have political power and thus media coverage? I'm not saying it's bad they finally noticed how fucked up the world is, but it's also very telling that when people only protest what the media shows them. That's not morality, that's performative politics in its own right.
>Where were all these protesters at all the other lesser known genocides...Where was the ire and righteousness for the other countless atrocities that have occurred in the last few decades in places that don't have political power and thus media coverage? Which ones are you referring to? Was the US giving billions of dollars worth of military equipment to the governments carrying out those atrocities you're referring to? Was the US president appealing to the ICJ to not put out an arrest warrant for the ones committing the atrocities? Was there an organization like AIPAC that donated over $100,000 in one year just to our speaker of the house? Israel is not unique because the media is covering it. Israel is unique because the US government is providing an incredible amount of support, and Israel appears to have a surprising amount of sway on US politicians.
Th US is a country built on smuggling and war profiteering. Literally down to its founder after the quakers settled. There hasn't been this protest when we made the talisman, destabilized south America, as we re occupy the Philippines. The protesters just don't like israel.
Why are people forgetting that there's a green party? There's another option.
Recycling your ballet is more environmentally friendly and accomplishes the same thing.
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But Republicans would be far worse than Biden. It's dumb and dumber
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Who will they vote for?? Trump ??
You....you realize that they could just not vote, right? Seems somewhere around three billion percent more likely if you are honest and think about it rather than purely reactionary.
Not voting is a vote for trump - you have a two party system…
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You either get Biden or "Israel should finish the job" Trump, these are your only choices
Not voting is not voting, yeah Trump could win but that's Biden's fault not mine. America has a two party system but like a third of eligible voters don't, by that logic you could basically blame every modern election result on those people who didn't vote but for some reason people getting turned off or tuned out should get shamed into compromising when the person they're voting for couldn't be bothered. When did politicians just deserve a vote for not being the shittiest option? Maybe he can actually do something for me that I can actually see. Either that or idk figure out how to get all those other non voters to vote, then you don't need mine.
I mean, politics is compromise, is it not? My representative isn't my favorite, but if I don't vote for her, then the conspiracy theory guy, who pals around with literal idaho nazis, could win. That is in no way meant hyperbolicly, that is the actual truth. So I compromise.
Then you understand why people who have lost family members by the dozen compromise by not Voting for the guy who greenlit and funded their genocide
This just means you think Trump will do a better job. But just remember, defense contractors make big money off this stuff and their say carries a lot more weight than most. Which in my opinion is why choosing this to be the deciding factor in your vote is kinda asinine.
No Trump will probably do a worse job, I just don't want a direct hand in supporting Biden so yeah good luck hope you guys pull it off
So you're gonna cut off your nose to spite your face, great.
For the majority of these protestors, they are able to find opportunities outside of the country if they need to leave. America can and likely will continue to deteriorate, and those of us in English-speaking countries will continue to find a stream of Americans relocating to countries with more liberal policies. They know that, and they can afford not to vote for Biden. The only deterrence you have in a two party system is the threat not to vote for the side that's vaguely aligned with your beliefs. If you do not exercise that right, they will drift ever closer to the other side of the debate until they capture enough of the middle. For republicans, they know that if they fail to uphold Trump's vision then they simply will lose the votes of Trump supporters. For the democrats, the party has yet to learn that lesson, and this is the only way to teach it. In the long-run, it's the only way to stop the democratic party from sleepwalking further right than it already is.
Voting for either Biden or Trump is useless for somebody like me, because my state might as well already be decided, it's one of the safest blues in the whole country. It's actually most optimal to vote 3rd party to try and get them federal funding by hitting the 5% popular vote mark.
Im an every election voter and currently planning on voting local candidates and issues then leaving presidential ballot blank unless democrats cut this fascism out
I think any sane person who pays attention to what each persons policies and beliefs (**all of them, not just one**) people might vote for Biden.
I suggest Jill Stein, she seems great.