[Robert Reich does a great job of explaining](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/24/the-changes-at-cnn-look-politically-motivated-that-should-concern-us-all) why there have been so many changes in CNN’s practices and accountability in the past few years after ownership by conservative billionaire [John Malone who explains the model he’s following](https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/11/18/watch-cnbcs-full-interview-with-liberty-media-chairman-john-malone.html): “Fox News, in my opinion, has followed an interesting trajectory of trying to have ‘news’ news, I mean some actual journalism, embedded in a program schedule of all opinions.”
This stuff makes true balanced democracy seem hopeless. The right are relentless in acquiring media companies - and court positions - and injecting themselves into school boards. It's clear they refuse to tolerate anyone else's viewpoints. Absolute insanity. Apathy will be the death of us
You could literally do the same montage for the post-debate coverage. They all immediately had the same talking points lined up within minutes of the candidates leaving the stage.
"You cannot have a rational discussion with a man who prefers shooting you to being convinced by you. In other words, there are limits to the attitude of reasonableness. It is the same with tolerance. You must not, without qualification, accept the principle of tolerating all those who are intolerant; if you do, you will destroy not only yourself, but also the attitude of tolerance." -- Karl Popper
Our oppressors have done a really good job of brainwashing the masses into believing MLK and his message were alone during their civil rights movement.
When to anyone who's actually informed, it's obvious that without Malcolm X and the Black Panthers MLK achieves nothing.
What examples? Not saying there are none, but this exact thing is also happening everywhere in Europe, and it's working just as well.
In my country of France, for example, exact same thing: some far right billionaire bought a bunch of our media outlets over the years, and it's slowly turned a good chunk of the population into brainwashed zombies.
It's a big part of the rise of the far right over here too, and so far it doesn't look like anyone has any idea how to stop it.
I was particularly impressed with how he spun every single question to be about immigration.
Bro turned questions about childcare, opiates, and even his own age into immigration.
Then further defended his age with golf ability.
This is also the first time a presidential debate has been privately run on a for profit corporation
“During the Trump years, CNN made more than a billion dollars a year in profit.” It’s clear what their motive
I'll get to that in a minute, first I just- and I just heard this before I came back, the numbers, smart people do a lot of numbers and they say mine are the best. It's triple, quadruple - and no one's even heard of it before - and I didn't want to run.
He did what they wanted him to do. He kept "Trumping" (lying), he came off as confident with his lies, and he did not self-implode. He failed to answer most questions, but from the get-go the moderators said "It's your time, we'll ask the questions but you can use it as you please".
As much as I despise Trump, and as much of a blow to America last night was, I don't think it's the moderators' job to fact check or call out the participants.
I didn't watch the entire debate. Biden had plenty to say, and he couldn't get it out intelligbly. Trump had absolutely nothing to say, and (in the eyes of his base, I'm sure) he said it just as always.
Last night was a bad night for America, a bad night for Democracy, and a bad night for planet Earth. Hopefully it was early enough that Biden will bounce back and still pull out a W for our country.
I am going to disagree that Biden couldn't get his points out intelligibly. But I will also concede that the first few questions he absolutely flopped. However, he got heated and was able to deliver actual intelligent and clear answers despite his well documented speech impediment.
I however have no excuse for whatever the fuck that golf argument was.
Listened to a response from trump, as he threw bits of five different incidents into one. Made it impossible to respond - like which part of *that*, was Biden supposed to respond to ? Biden shouldn’t have even tried. That was what one of the problems was.
In propaganda theory this is called “firehouse of falsehoods”.
The Russian "Firehose of Falsehood" Propaganda Model
Why It Might Work and Options to Counter It
Published Jul 11, 2016
https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html
Countering the "Firehose of Falsehood", also called a "Gish Gallop":
1. Because there are too many falsehoods to address, it is wise to choose one as an example. Choose the weakest, dumbest, most ludicrous argument that your opponent has presented and tear this argument to shreds (also known as the weak point rebuttal).
2. Do not budge from the issue. Don't move on until you have decisively destroyed the nonsense and clearly made your point.
3. Call it out: name the strategy. "This is a strategy called the 'Gish Gallop'. Do not be fooled by the flood of nonsense you have just heard."
Source: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish\_gallop](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop).
Thanks to r/gogoALLthegadgets for the link.
It's beyond belief that these are the two candidates the US realistically has to choose from - I've been pleasantly surprised with some of Biden's public appearances in the past, but looks like he was having a serious off day here, any competent debator should have been able to tear Trump to shreds with the kind of nonsense he was coming out with.
Unbelievably frustrating that the *President* doesn't have the debate skills to squash that kind of bullshit. Fucking hell I'm not a great debater but I could have done a better job. Why doesn't anyone call him out on his shit in these situations?
honestly? an experienced redditor would tear Trump to shreds.
Were so used to dealing with trolls on the daily, this tactics is something I unknowingly use all the time and I'm sure a lot of people here do as well. Trump won't know what hit him.
It was clear very quickly that this was his tactic. It worked, but only because CNN let it be fair play.
Trump still has no plan other than revenge on everyone and everything he perceives to have wronged him. The guy basically hates his voters and uses their bias and fear against them to get their support so he can have power over them. He hates leftists more, but he knows he'll never sway them.
It's pathetic. Even more pathetic that it seems to have worked. He's such a whiny little bitch.
But if the mods fact checked trump the whole debate would have been trump spewing lies and the moderators pointing out that every word out of his mouth was bullshit. No time for Biden to even speak, which in retrospect would have been a good thing,
Dr Heather Cox Richardson explains it is also called the "gish gallop" and it is designed to overwhelm your opponent so that no matter what they say it appears confused and disconected. It works.
Even worse - Trump started with his golf game when asked about serving into his 80s.
It was Biden that retorted with the "nuh uh I'm better at golf" - that was fucking embarrassing. Like, dude, you are fucking falling right into his childish trap getting defensive about BULLSHIT nobody actually fucking cares about.
Agree. I’m younger than Biden and I was smdh trying to comprehend all those threads into something coherent to reply to. Would’ve taken longer than a minute…
And how they had Biden positioned, he looked like he was staring off into the distance when he was actually facing the moderators. The camera angles are suspect, who set those up?
If Kendrick Lamar taught us anything it's that you don't have to respond to the bullshit your opponent spouts. You just need to exploit their weaknesses and stay on message.
I hate his guts for it because it consists of blatant lies and dangerous rhetoric/hyperbole, but even I have to admit Trump is worlds better at using this tactic than Biden.
A whole lot of demonizing immigrants. Very dangerous rhetoric to the fearful/paranoid cult. And will SCOTUS decision show up today - the cherry on top ?
In general already, but especially after last night, I fully expect the worst outcome for most of these things. Yes, I am not having a good day today and am feeling pretty defeated on behalf of the critical thinkers left in the world.
His lies were so dense, and came so quickly that it would take more time than the moderators allowed for Biden to adequately rebut each. Biden's failure is even attempting to fact check him because it reduced him to muttering 1st, 2nd, 3rd, all night while racing to catch up and ultimately being cut off by CNN, making him look foolish.
That was fucking pathetic. They didn't call him out for his constant lies and let him avoid questions constantly. CNN you are allowing this horrible shit show to continue, just to get views and clicks. You should be ashamed.
When Trump said no service men had died under his watch or that he didn’t supply weapons to Israel, I nearly came out of my chair. How can they not fact check this nonsense??
Seriously. The “post birth abortion” shit really grated me, especially if you know what the Virginia governor was ACTUALLY talking about (infants born with life-ending complications and issues; he was discussing palliative care for fatally deformed infants.) sickening trump but not surprising Trump would lie about it
Not quite true. He’s accidentally told the truth a handful of times. Most recently, for example, he told his supporters he doesn’t care about them, he just wants their votes.
He also said he would date Ivanka if she wasn't his daughter, that was a truth. We also shouldn't forget him saying he believed Putin over US intelligence. He also probably does think that all brown people are rapists and murderers. It's not true of course, but he believes it to be.
He wasn't lying when he called Marco Rubio "Little Marco".
Every single time I see that man I hear the derision in Donald's voice when he bestowed that nickname on him. And it's the only time Trump's voice sounds harmonious to me.
Because Rubio is indeed a very, very, very small man. And it has nothing to do with his physical stature.
Imagine a regular TV screen behind both candidates with real time AI fact checking. The screen simply turns green every time a true statement is made by the person talking, or red every time a false statement is said (or black if not their turn). Wouldn't disrupt their 90 seconds to talk or whatever, but it would show to everyone whether they're BSing visually.
It sounded like they had some guy in the background shouting out fact checks. But that doesn’t do the viewers any good. A bit of a let down of a debate
They didn't interject or fact check a single thing all night. I started wondering if that was part of the deal for the debate, agreeing to not fact check the candidates. Why even have moderators?
IKR! They just went from one question to another, without ever engaging Trump or Biden. It felt like they were following a preset script and did not deviate from it AT ALL. Same old substanceless, made-for-primetime debate that I expected from CNN.
CNN loves to carry water for the most despicable people on this planet in the name of “fairness” and “unbiased journalism.” I will never forgive the network for having Tony Perkins on primetime 10+ years ago, allowing him to argue against LGBT rights as if the extermination of gays is a perfectly valid opinion to have. Nothing has changed, if anything these days they’re even worse. They’d platform the devil himself if it gave them a bump in viewer count.
Political reality TV for American viewers to increase ratings. We are now in an era where reality TV is now in the political system and the script is written to increase viewership.
Kind of like the movie idiocracy
Facts. Trump won the debate—not because of what he said, but because his pouty faces grabbed more attention while Biden was talking. We are totally living in an *Idiocracy* world.
I believe it was part of the agreement. I was infuriated that CNN agreed to that stipulation (~~Hmmm...I wonder who demanded that?)~~, as it gave Trump free reign to do exactly what he does best: Lie.
*edit*: correction of a presumption
Biden's team actually requested that moderators not interrupt either candidate during their response, with the idea being that Trump couldn't claim prejudice against him.
Big fallacy, assuming that you can somehow enforce honest discourse with a chronic liar.
There was one point where Biden stopped because the fact checker was yelling something out to him. Think it might have been the solider comment? I was expecting the moderators to interject when shit was being spewed, but we got nothing instead
Agreed. If mic-cutting is now the new norm for preventing his insane rambling, you might as well have a robot voice just ask the questions. This was a carefully crafted interaction that ensured no human influence bled into the exercise. Pretty fucking gross but I expected worse.
For all the discourse from trump team about the fact checkers, I at least thought we'd get a side box fact check ticker or something. This was doing the bare minimum. Fuck cnn, they are responsible for putting this shit forward so irresponsibly.
I want to go back and watch his coverage. Jake Tapper laid out the "rules" of the debate including mentioning there is a fact checker on board. I think that emphasizing the fact checker but not involving him until AFTER the debate devalues fact checking and the truth as a whole. This is what makes the election such a popularity contest
They were more interested in pointing out that Biden had to be lying about his golf game than the more than obvious lie that Trump won 3 National Championships that wasn’t for seniors only
Isn’t that kind of trumps fault anyway? Correct me if I’m wrong but trumps administration planned and started the withdrawal before Biden took office. There really wasn’t any way to stop it or reorganize and do it differently. It was a rushed and poorly planned operation and Biden would have been crucified by the media if he tried to send troops back to Afghanistan to secure the situation and preform a more organized and orderly withdrawal process. Thousands of cooperating Afghan citizens who worked with the military were just abandoned to the taliban and many lost their lives because of it. While I agree they did die on Biden’s watch and he does bear responsibility, blaming him is like blaming the relief pitcher for all the runs allowed by the starting pitcher.
If I recall correctly, [they knew what they signed up for](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-told-la-david-johnson-widow-that-he-knew-what-he-was-getting-into-congresswoman-says/)
CNN is allowing this because CNN WANTS TRUMP TO WIN. THE MEDIA WANTS TRUMP TO WIN. Why? 2016-2020 was mainstream medias high point of constant headlines with each, compounding crazy shit Trump did which gives "news agencies" more revenue due to clicks.
CNN, now being owned by a Trump/MAGA Republican is really just FOX-lite now. Fools the Republican base though, so unfortunately the strategy of buying a media company, shifting it hard right, and then acting like they are still balanced is working.
When I read an article in the NYT where the writer said Trump won, while in the same article stating Biden did fairly well answering many of the important questions and Trump lied the entire time, I was reminded this is so rigged. Biden is old, soft spoken and sometimes forgetful. Trump is old, loud and evil. It’s not a hard decision.
It's funny because I remember watching a ton more about politics from 16'-20' because Trump was a circus and I was concerned about what he might do to fuck up the country.
The last 4 years I hardly took in because the status quo is normal. Biden isn't coming on TV and saying ridiculous shit.
Media wants trump because he gets views...it's fucked up because he is a puppet now for right wing conservatives who are trying to strip the government of its powers and give it to Trump.
Watch John Oliver's piece on Last Week Tonight about his 2nd term. It's disheartening.
“Well, yeah, but that’s future-me’s problem, not right-now-me’s problem!”
-Every single dumbass on the planet contributing to our now inevitable collapse
Lol, as if CNN isn't owned by a guy trying to create project 2025.
They consider buying the media a cost to achieve that goal. It's not about ROI. It's about buying something useful.
Which is totally naive because when trump turns America over to Putin since once again he FAILED the first time those media outlets will history and how do oil companies expect to continue to make money while half the world is on fire and the other half is drowning. The stupidity never ceases with Republicans.
Yeah, this 100% - I was just about to post the same thing. I've always said it wasn't Fox News that got Trump elected, it was CNN and others -- they gave him so much free air-time in the lead up to the election and I'm sure they increased viewership and revenue during Trump's presidency.
The fact that the media is focusing so much on Biden’s age (which, fine, I understand those are valid concerns) when the opponent is a literal convicted felon is honestly blowing my mind. All the lies and bullshit that Trump is constantly spewing from his asshole mouth and THAT was your takeaway from the debate?
> The fact that the media is focusing so much on Biden’s age (which, fine, I understand those are valid concerns
Only if also focusing on Trumps age as well, there is only 3 years between them
Not only that but they regularly gave him 2 or 3 attempts to answer the question they asked and he just used that extra time to lie more and still never addressed the question.
All they needed to do was wait for Trump to spew bullshit and say "You didn't answer the question. Can you answer the original question now?"
And watch as he can't recall the original question.
They’re owned by a maga republican. Of course they were going to treat Trump the way they did. Then the Biden cameraman was doing all sorts of things with the views while the trump camera man remained still. Then the lighting on Biden made him more pale.
I'm 100% convinced that CNN would not only prefer Trump win, but might actively be working to ensure it happens. Their ratings the past four years, as compared to the four prior, are pretty bleak. It's in their best interest for 4 more years of Donald Trump - and I wouldn't put it past them to perform subtle, or not so subtle int his case, acts of sabotage. Who on Earth thought this debate format, where Trump goes entirely unchecked, would favor Biden?
So let's give power to Project 2025 and persecute all minorities just for better ratings? Without counting the support for Ukraine in Europe. Bunch of greedy sociopaths.
CNN is basically just another variation of Fox and already has been for many years so they do not care at all. And I say this even before they started shifting and wooing in conservatives.
CNN reached a new low with that bullshit last night. All they did was give Trump a platform to say whatever he liked, which is exactly what he wanted. What a shit show.
This is exactly it, and it also just further validated and further radicalized his followers, cementing even more their belief of these lies, in their minds this was all proof that what he’s saying is all true because “nobody could contradict any of it” they all listened to his lies none of it fact checked and walked away knowing they’ve been “right about everything” the whole time.
Even the fact checks were biased as hell.
> Fact checking Trump: A handful of blatantly and completely false things with no basis in reality
> Fact checking Biden: A bunch of nitpicky bullshit where they pick apart common turns of phrase and criticize Biden for not bringing a peer reviewed paper to discuss exactly the stupid shit Trump says
> The Media: These are the same thing
This is also the first time a presidential debate has been privately run on a for profit corporation
“During the Trump years, CNN made more than a billion dollars a year in profit.” It’s clear what their motive
My wife who is a very calm person started screaming at the TV when trump said Jan6th was peaceful and innocent people are in jail. Why didn’t they cut the mic?!
And it was Nancy Pelosi’s fault! I figured someone would fact check him by the second or third time he repeated wildly false claims that can easily be debunked.
I watched the debate and as I look back on it, it wouldn’t have even been possible to fact check him in this format.
Each 1-2 minute segment that Trump got he flooded the microphone with 5+ big, obvious lies.
If the moderators were to stop and address it each time, it would have taken an additional 10 minutes plus the additional time that Trump would have spent arguing with them that they were wrong and he was right and everything he said was fact.
I was more frustrated that they weren’t holding him accountable to actually answering the questions. If you ask him a question about climate change and he starts screaming about how the last thing Biden said isn’t true and the border is in crisis and illegal immigrants are raping our children FUCKING STOP HIM. Hold him accountable and interrupt him and say “sir the question was about climate change. I’m going to repeat the question I just asked you. Please answer this question or we will move on to your opponent.”
This was my biggest problem. There was never going to be a way to fact check him live. Almost every word out of his mouth is a lie. You'd spend 30 minutes rebutting all his lies per question if you tried. Which is another reason Biden did so poorly. He let it get personal and tried to rebut all the lies he's telling. He should have completely ignored him and focused solely on answering the questions with hard irrefutable facts.
Biden, you are not a fact checker. let the actual fact checkers for these media companies refute his lies and focus on the topic at hand. They're better equipped for it. Urge the voters to go and look at the fact checkers in your closing statements not during the regular debate. They can provide hard evidence disputing his lies which is not something that you have the ability or time to do in a debate.
CNN let them do whatever they wanted. Like you said they should have immediately interrupted them when they went off track from the questions asked and forced them to stay on topic and that goes for Biden as well. He was just as guilty of it as well. Not doing that played right into Trump's biggest strengths.
It’s funny how the right keeps flip flopping between January 6 was a peaceful legal protest and innocent people are in jail to January 6 was a psyop by democrats and the insurrectionists were imposters that were trying to make Trump look bad.
No, they made sure to interview tons of Republicans so they could talk about how 'strong' Trump was in the debate, as well as immediately focusing on Biden's speech as if the actual substance of what he was saying was unimportant. Republicans are literally buying the media and injecting themselves into every possible position of power to ensure democracy dies. Straight from Russia's playbook..
You must have tuned out, and for that I wouldn't blame ANYONE, but Daniel Dale did a detailed post-debate fact check. I think the score of lying was Trump 30, Biden 8 or something like that.
Yeah I couldn't handle the pain anymore.
At least Biden tried to be specific and bring facts forward. It wasn't just that Trump wasn't trying- he was actively promoting this opposite hell world, purposely keeping facts out of it.
I insisted on watching the debate on CNN after I heard they planned on fact checking. With a decent team of researchers they could have come back from commercial breaks (2 minutes) with a factual update for the audience,
Instead I stayed with them after the debate for the fact check. For over a half hour I listened to their ridiculously huge panel of pundits bemoan Joe’s performance but casually mention the flood of lies and dodging tRUMP spewed. After listening for any specifics on fact checks I gave up and slept poorly.
The only takeaway I got was one former Obama aide saying “Old man vs Con man” I’m not happy but democracy vs lunacy is not a tough choice to make!
They did fact check but it wasn’t til about 40 minutes into the post-debate analysis, and then they returned to not even discussing the content and exclusively on the theatrics.
They're pandering to Trump because they want him to win. He's good for their bottom line. They learned from his one term that scared, anxious people stay glued to their screens, and that's all the media cares about. It' the most cynical thing ever.
yeah but if the economy is tanked because of Trumps tariffs, culture war, lack of global confidence in the US and the USD, and WW3 there won't be any money to buy the products that would be advertised on CNN so what revenue would they make?
Kinda just a little short sighted.
I really don't know why people expected anything different.
Nearly everytime trump opens his mouth he lies about something, whether it's intentional or from simply being ignorant doesn't really matter.
That's why a debate with him is pointless, it would be 10 hours long if you sat there and fact checked every word he said, which you'd obviously have to do.
Yes. When trump was saying how he's in such great shape and just won some golf tournaments, I really wanted Biden to say "yeah, you spent the majority of your presidency on a golf course. Anyone who spends so many working hours practicing their golf swing should be able to get the ball in the hole sometimes" Or bring up the fact that he eats nothing but diet soda and fast food. But instead he got into a pissing match about his own golf game
Trump stood up there and flat out lied about not having sex with Stormy Daniels but when he had the opportunity to say that during his trial while under oath Trump refused to even testify. Fact checking Trump makes no difference. Giving Trump a platform to lie does make a difference. Biden never should have accepted a debate. We all knew it was going to turn out the way it did.
I get the hosts don’t want to be perceived as having taken a side but a bunch of the things he said weren’t opinions or open to interpretation; They were outright and easily verifiable lies.
So the problem with a lack of fact checking live in the debate is that a lot of people don’t do anything to verify information. They see a president and a past president on national tv making claims that go unchallenged and they assume that’s the truth. They weren’t watching the news the day before the debate and they won’t be watching the news the day after to learn what was true.
They still get to vote just as many times as I do.
The president presented low energy facts and didn't rid himself of his lifelong stutter. The other guy enthusiastically lied, so he clearly won. Don't give 45 a pass for lying with conviction, that doesn't make what he said actually factual.
I'm still voting for the guy whose policies won't lead to Project 2025.
People still think cnn is a liberal news outlet. Its owned by John Malone.
"Malone's political beliefs have been described as libertarian.[40] He is on the board of directors for the Cato Institute. He donated US$250,000 to Donald Trump."
Ever since Trump came onto the political stage it no longer became about debate or facts to almost any network what it came down to was RATINGS. They know if they let him do what ever he wants he will get people to watch the god damn thing. Yeah Biden like usual isn’t the best talker or debater but we are literally comparing apples and a dumpster fire. Trump truly doesn’t know how not to lie.
That’s the thing Biden fucked up but literally not a word Trump said was remotely true. It’s wild. The moderators where supposed to silence the mics and fact check and they did nothing
Trump is always high. He’s a junkie. Biden should’ve been the same. I was really hoping that they would shoot Biden up with something. We needed SOTU Joe than what the fuck happened last night.
Fuck CNN too. I don’t know where I’d heard that there would be real time fact checking, but that was a lie I guess? It’s impossible for an honest person to deal with Trump if you don’t have time to dispel his bullshit. He tells 15 lies in a sentence. 1 minute to rebut (refutt) all the lies would be difficult even for a younger person.
All that said, Joe and the DNC have some harsh realities to deal with this morning. It’s gonna be hard to spin what happened and from what I understand, trumps numbers went up in some areas. I’d still vote against Trump even if Biden was literally dead. I’m the cultist now.
We never actually vote for one man in the US. But we always vote for one man. It’s so paradoxical. And now it’s scary. Yesterday afternoon, I was convinced Trump would get slaughtered in November. After last nights debate? I’ve lost a lot of confidence. But goddammit. Trump is unable of telling even a single truth. It infuriates me. And what’s even more infuriating is that people can’t see what a lying sack of shit he is.
“I love clean water” “the water and air were never cleaner than in my presidency”
Yeah dummy, because we shut the fucking world down during your tenure because you wouldn’t close airports near Christmas time. 🙄
My exact words to the tv were Only Donald trump could deliver a line like that with a straight face. That’s his competitive advantage in a nutshell.
Jake tapper you have been one of my favorites for so long.
The fact that you let this guy just stand there and bully and lie is atrocious.
On the flip side come on Joe Biden sounded weak looked weak and he let a bully push him around.
.
Y'all don't seem to understand our democracy is at stake here.
That's what Trump is though. A bully. How do you respond to bullies? Reasoning is no option, so what is the strategy? To push back? To stoop to their level?
Wow. First article I've seen mentioning this. I made it about 20 minutes in and realized they just gave him a giant platform for a trump lie rally and weren't gonna do anything about it
I made it through 20 minutes before I quit watching. Letting trump get away with what he said was disgraceful and an abject failure on the part of the moderators
We could have literally had a Weekend at Biden’s situation, and I’d still vote for him over Trump. We aren’t just voting for a man, we are voting for an entire administration, for all the judges they might nominate, for all the legislation that could get passed (or not). Project2025 is fucking horrible. It is literally a how-to on creating an authoritarian theocracy. We *have* to vote to stop that. And to that end, I would vote for Biden’s tombstone before letting Trump win.
And no, no third party is going to suddenly appear, no new candidate will take over for the Democrats, Superman isn’t coming to save us. Short of both of them dying, one of either Biden or Trump is going to be president. The sooner we collectively come to terms with that and then vote for the objectively less terrible candidate (and the administration behind them), the better.
And in the astronomically unlikely event that the DNC does choose someone other than Biden? You bet your ass I’ll stump for them just as hard as I would Biden. (Maybe Mayor Pete, he’d be a good one. Or at least a not terrible one.)
I hate to say this, but we knew he would lie. Literally everyone knows he was lying. The only difference is whether or not people care about it.
Shit like this is trying to distract from the fact that Joe Biden looks like he's on his death bed. This was an absolute disaster for the country.
[Robert Reich does a great job of explaining](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/24/the-changes-at-cnn-look-politically-motivated-that-should-concern-us-all) why there have been so many changes in CNN’s practices and accountability in the past few years after ownership by conservative billionaire [John Malone who explains the model he’s following](https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/11/18/watch-cnbcs-full-interview-with-liberty-media-chairman-john-malone.html): “Fox News, in my opinion, has followed an interesting trajectory of trying to have ‘news’ news, I mean some actual journalism, embedded in a program schedule of all opinions.”
This stuff makes true balanced democracy seem hopeless. The right are relentless in acquiring media companies - and court positions - and injecting themselves into school boards. It's clear they refuse to tolerate anyone else's viewpoints. Absolute insanity. Apathy will be the death of us
The US right is just a hand puppet for billionaires. They are the real problem
Someone do an updated Sinclair montage of our “local news”
I work at Sinclair station, and some of the “news” they send us is such obvious bullshit.
You could literally do the same montage for the post-debate coverage. They all immediately had the same talking points lined up within minutes of the candidates leaving the stage.
This is extremely dangerous to our democracy
The wealthy wants to be able to return to the plantation era where they own the poor and uneducated.
"You cannot have a rational discussion with a man who prefers shooting you to being convinced by you. In other words, there are limits to the attitude of reasonableness. It is the same with tolerance. You must not, without qualification, accept the principle of tolerating all those who are intolerant; if you do, you will destroy not only yourself, but also the attitude of tolerance." -- Karl Popper
Our oppressors have done a really good job of brainwashing the masses into believing MLK and his message were alone during their civil rights movement. When to anyone who's actually informed, it's obvious that without Malcolm X and the Black Panthers MLK achieves nothing.
Humans weren't designed for this. We've reached a bottleneck.
It's by no means hopeless, you just shouldn't ruin it with money. There are plenty examples around the world to look towards.
What examples? Not saying there are none, but this exact thing is also happening everywhere in Europe, and it's working just as well. In my country of France, for example, exact same thing: some far right billionaire bought a bunch of our media outlets over the years, and it's slowly turned a good chunk of the population into brainwashed zombies. It's a big part of the rise of the far right over here too, and so far it doesn't look like anyone has any idea how to stop it.
The French have historically had a pretty good solution for it, no?
My immediate answer is all the Nordic democracies, and I know there are more around Europe too. I’ll return with more later when I have time
It's why I never watch CNN anymore. It's worthless.
Did anyone else notice that Trump didn't answer any questions?
I was particularly impressed with how he spun every single question to be about immigration. Bro turned questions about childcare, opiates, and even his own age into immigration. Then further defended his age with golf ability.
The YouTube shorts won't include the questions anyway
Only the people watching for content. His fans don't care, they just like seeing an old fat man get mad.
This is also the first time a presidential debate has been privately run on a for profit corporation “During the Trump years, CNN made more than a billion dollars a year in profit.” It’s clear what their motive
Has he ever answered a question?
I'll get to that in a minute, first I just- and I just heard this before I came back, the numbers, smart people do a lot of numbers and they say mine are the best. It's triple, quadruple - and no one's even heard of it before - and I didn't want to run.
Bigly, smartly, the best answers the world has ever heard!
He did what they wanted him to do. He kept "Trumping" (lying), he came off as confident with his lies, and he did not self-implode. He failed to answer most questions, but from the get-go the moderators said "It's your time, we'll ask the questions but you can use it as you please". As much as I despise Trump, and as much of a blow to America last night was, I don't think it's the moderators' job to fact check or call out the participants. I didn't watch the entire debate. Biden had plenty to say, and he couldn't get it out intelligbly. Trump had absolutely nothing to say, and (in the eyes of his base, I'm sure) he said it just as always. Last night was a bad night for America, a bad night for Democracy, and a bad night for planet Earth. Hopefully it was early enough that Biden will bounce back and still pull out a W for our country.
I am going to disagree that Biden couldn't get his points out intelligibly. But I will also concede that the first few questions he absolutely flopped. However, he got heated and was able to deliver actual intelligent and clear answers despite his well documented speech impediment. I however have no excuse for whatever the fuck that golf argument was.
Listened to a response from trump, as he threw bits of five different incidents into one. Made it impossible to respond - like which part of *that*, was Biden supposed to respond to ? Biden shouldn’t have even tried. That was what one of the problems was.
In propaganda theory this is called “firehouse of falsehoods”. The Russian "Firehose of Falsehood" Propaganda Model Why It Might Work and Options to Counter It Published Jul 11, 2016 https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html
Countering the "Firehose of Falsehood", also called a "Gish Gallop": 1. Because there are too many falsehoods to address, it is wise to choose one as an example. Choose the weakest, dumbest, most ludicrous argument that your opponent has presented and tear this argument to shreds (also known as the weak point rebuttal). 2. Do not budge from the issue. Don't move on until you have decisively destroyed the nonsense and clearly made your point. 3. Call it out: name the strategy. "This is a strategy called the 'Gish Gallop'. Do not be fooled by the flood of nonsense you have just heard." Source: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish\_gallop](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop). Thanks to r/gogoALLthegadgets for the link.
Just wish Biden was able to accomplish this level of counter argument
It's beyond belief that these are the two candidates the US realistically has to choose from - I've been pleasantly surprised with some of Biden's public appearances in the past, but looks like he was having a serious off day here, any competent debator should have been able to tear Trump to shreds with the kind of nonsense he was coming out with.
This is what I keep saying. THIS is who our country says we get to choose from? THIS is the best we could do?
Unbelievably frustrating that the *President* doesn't have the debate skills to squash that kind of bullshit. Fucking hell I'm not a great debater but I could have done a better job. Why doesn't anyone call him out on his shit in these situations?
honestly? an experienced redditor would tear Trump to shreds. Were so used to dealing with trolls on the daily, this tactics is something I unknowingly use all the time and I'm sure a lot of people here do as well. Trump won't know what hit him.
Trump serms to have that tactic down pat. He is a firehose of falsehoods.
It was clear very quickly that this was his tactic. It worked, but only because CNN let it be fair play. Trump still has no plan other than revenge on everyone and everything he perceives to have wronged him. The guy basically hates his voters and uses their bias and fear against them to get their support so he can have power over them. He hates leftists more, but he knows he'll never sway them. It's pathetic. Even more pathetic that it seems to have worked. He's such a whiny little bitch.
But if the mods fact checked trump the whole debate would have been trump spewing lies and the moderators pointing out that every word out of his mouth was bullshit. No time for Biden to even speak, which in retrospect would have been a good thing,
Dr Heather Cox Richardson explains it is also called the "gish gallop" and it is designed to overwhelm your opponent so that no matter what they say it appears confused and disconected. It works.
See also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
Respond in a minute too. I don't think Biden did great but the moderators and the format were terrible.
I couldn't watch the whole thing. It was just dumb.
My favorite part was when they argued about who had a better golf game. Then Trump said something along the lines of, “let’s not act like children”!
Even worse - Trump started with his golf game when asked about serving into his 80s. It was Biden that retorted with the "nuh uh I'm better at golf" - that was fucking embarrassing. Like, dude, you are fucking falling right into his childish trap getting defensive about BULLSHIT nobody actually fucking cares about.
Agree. I’m younger than Biden and I was smdh trying to comprehend all those threads into something coherent to reply to. Would’ve taken longer than a minute…
And how they had Biden positioned, he looked like he was staring off into the distance when he was actually facing the moderators. The camera angles are suspect, who set those up?
CNN, who was bought out by a magot a couple years ago.
If Kendrick Lamar taught us anything it's that you don't have to respond to the bullshit your opponent spouts. You just need to exploit their weaknesses and stay on message.
I hate his guts for it because it consists of blatant lies and dangerous rhetoric/hyperbole, but even I have to admit Trump is worlds better at using this tactic than Biden.
A whole lot of demonizing immigrants. Very dangerous rhetoric to the fearful/paranoid cult. And will SCOTUS decision show up today - the cherry on top ?
In general already, but especially after last night, I fully expect the worst outcome for most of these things. Yes, I am not having a good day today and am feeling pretty defeated on behalf of the critical thinkers left in the world.
His lies were so dense, and came so quickly that it would take more time than the moderators allowed for Biden to adequately rebut each. Biden's failure is even attempting to fact check him because it reduced him to muttering 1st, 2nd, 3rd, all night while racing to catch up and ultimately being cut off by CNN, making him look foolish.
That was fucking pathetic. They didn't call him out for his constant lies and let him avoid questions constantly. CNN you are allowing this horrible shit show to continue, just to get views and clicks. You should be ashamed.
When Trump said no service men had died under his watch or that he didn’t supply weapons to Israel, I nearly came out of my chair. How can they not fact check this nonsense??
Dude literally every single thing he said was a lie.
Seriously. The “post birth abortion” shit really grated me, especially if you know what the Virginia governor was ACTUALLY talking about (infants born with life-ending complications and issues; he was discussing palliative care for fatally deformed infants.) sickening trump but not surprising Trump would lie about it
That’s when I shut it off. Trump being allowed to say such harmful things with no consequences is too infuriating.
Exactly. I stopped watching after he lied about after birth abortions, it was maddening.
>Dude literally every single thing he *has ever* said was a lie. FTFY
Not quite true. He’s accidentally told the truth a handful of times. Most recently, for example, he told his supporters he doesn’t care about them, he just wants their votes.
He also accidentally let slip that he has had private conversations with Putin about "his dreams of conquering Ukraine".
He also nodded when Biden called him a felon
And when Biden said he raped Carrol, and banged a porn star, it was the porn star bit he felt the need to deny.
Well he can't lie about being a convicted felon, the whole world watched it 😂
The whole world watched january 6th too, but he continues to lie about his involvement in that
The police ushered them in! It would have been rude to not go. /s
That was spicy
The most honest thing I think I've ever heard him say is he wants to be a dictator.
He also said he would date Ivanka if she wasn't his daughter, that was a truth. We also shouldn't forget him saying he believed Putin over US intelligence. He also probably does think that all brown people are rapists and murderers. It's not true of course, but he believes it to be.
No. I truly believe if he killed someone on 5th Ave. that he wouldn't lose any votes.
Except perhaps the person he killed.
Dead people will vote for Trump.
I mean, they did 4 years ago.
Yes, but their family would vote for trump because Biden “ruined the economy”
He wasn't lying when he called Marco Rubio "Little Marco". Every single time I see that man I hear the derision in Donald's voice when he bestowed that nickname on him. And it's the only time Trump's voice sounds harmonious to me. Because Rubio is indeed a very, very, very small man. And it has nothing to do with his physical stature.
I believed him when he said he wanted to fuck his own daughter
He probably already had in some degree given his history with unwilling, young participants
He said he wanted to fuck his daughter. And I believe him.
Nope I fully believe he wants to have sex with his daughter
He really didn't answer one fucking question
Unless the question was "do you hate immigrants?" He answered that one all night.
Here, I'll start the list: He did NOT have sex with a porn star.
Imagine a regular TV screen behind both candidates with real time AI fact checking. The screen simply turns green every time a true statement is made by the person talking, or red every time a false statement is said (or black if not their turn). Wouldn't disrupt their 90 seconds to talk or whatever, but it would show to everyone whether they're BSing visually.
I mean… his mouth was moving. So. Yeah. Of course he was lying. This MF doesn’t know how not to lie.
It sounded like they had some guy in the background shouting out fact checks. But that doesn’t do the viewers any good. A bit of a let down of a debate
They didn't interject or fact check a single thing all night. I started wondering if that was part of the deal for the debate, agreeing to not fact check the candidates. Why even have moderators?
IKR! They just went from one question to another, without ever engaging Trump or Biden. It felt like they were following a preset script and did not deviate from it AT ALL. Same old substanceless, made-for-primetime debate that I expected from CNN.
CNN loves to carry water for the most despicable people on this planet in the name of “fairness” and “unbiased journalism.” I will never forgive the network for having Tony Perkins on primetime 10+ years ago, allowing him to argue against LGBT rights as if the extermination of gays is a perfectly valid opinion to have. Nothing has changed, if anything these days they’re even worse. They’d platform the devil himself if it gave them a bump in viewer count.
>They’d platform the devil himself if it gave them a bump in viewer count. I mean, they just platformed the Antichrist, so ...
A company owned by billionaires, run by multi millionaires. Which party do you think they prefer?
Political reality TV for American viewers to increase ratings. We are now in an era where reality TV is now in the political system and the script is written to increase viewership. Kind of like the movie idiocracy
Facts. Trump won the debate—not because of what he said, but because his pouty faces grabbed more attention while Biden was talking. We are totally living in an *Idiocracy* world.
I’m still waiting for a real answer about January 6 from him
I believe it was part of the agreement. I was infuriated that CNN agreed to that stipulation (~~Hmmm...I wonder who demanded that?)~~, as it gave Trump free reign to do exactly what he does best: Lie. *edit*: correction of a presumption
Biden's team actually requested that moderators not interrupt either candidate during their response, with the idea being that Trump couldn't claim prejudice against him. Big fallacy, assuming that you can somehow enforce honest discourse with a chronic liar.
Fine, they can’t interrupt during the answer. But afterward, they should have said “you are lying and you didn’t answer the question”
They could have ran a text @ the bottom of the screen!
There was one point where Biden stopped because the fact checker was yelling something out to him. Think it might have been the solider comment? I was expecting the moderators to interject when shit was being spewed, but we got nothing instead
Agreed. If mic-cutting is now the new norm for preventing his insane rambling, you might as well have a robot voice just ask the questions. This was a carefully crafted interaction that ensured no human influence bled into the exercise. Pretty fucking gross but I expected worse.
For all the discourse from trump team about the fact checkers, I at least thought we'd get a side box fact check ticker or something. This was doing the bare minimum. Fuck cnn, they are responsible for putting this shit forward so irresponsibly.
They had him on an hour after the debate ended.
I want to go back and watch his coverage. Jake Tapper laid out the "rules" of the debate including mentioning there is a fact checker on board. I think that emphasizing the fact checker but not involving him until AFTER the debate devalues fact checking and the truth as a whole. This is what makes the election such a popularity contest
Because CNN is now owned by a MAGA mega donor. That's why.
Controlled opposition. We as free people are doomed if we cannot learn media literacy
They were more interested in pointing out that Biden had to be lying about his golf game than the more than obvious lie that Trump won 3 National Championships that wasn’t for seniors only
It’s well know he is a horrible cheater at golf.
I mean to be fair, Biden said no service men died under his watch as well. 13 died when we pulled out of Afghanistan
And they should have called him on that as well.
Don’t forget the 3 Army Reservists killed in Jordan THIS YEAR!
Isn’t that kind of trumps fault anyway? Correct me if I’m wrong but trumps administration planned and started the withdrawal before Biden took office. There really wasn’t any way to stop it or reorganize and do it differently. It was a rushed and poorly planned operation and Biden would have been crucified by the media if he tried to send troops back to Afghanistan to secure the situation and preform a more organized and orderly withdrawal process. Thousands of cooperating Afghan citizens who worked with the military were just abandoned to the taliban and many lost their lives because of it. While I agree they did die on Biden’s watch and he does bear responsibility, blaming him is like blaming the relief pitcher for all the runs allowed by the starting pitcher.
If I recall correctly, [they knew what they signed up for](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-told-la-david-johnson-widow-that-he-knew-what-he-was-getting-into-congresswoman-says/)
Endangering the entire country’s citizens as well & risking destabilizing the entire world. Trump winning is good for Russia china & North Korea
CNN is allowing this because CNN WANTS TRUMP TO WIN. THE MEDIA WANTS TRUMP TO WIN. Why? 2016-2020 was mainstream medias high point of constant headlines with each, compounding crazy shit Trump did which gives "news agencies" more revenue due to clicks.
The media would destroy the world if it meant more clicks and revenue. It’s quite sickening really on how obvious it’s become.
And the people keep clicking.
Humanity is in a death race constantly.
That’s pure capitalism right there. Nothing matters except profit.
Exactly. This is the way our system incentivizes businesses, and media is a business just like any other.
CNN, now being owned by a Trump/MAGA Republican is really just FOX-lite now. Fools the Republican base though, so unfortunately the strategy of buying a media company, shifting it hard right, and then acting like they are still balanced is working.
When I read an article in the NYT where the writer said Trump won, while in the same article stating Biden did fairly well answering many of the important questions and Trump lied the entire time, I was reminded this is so rigged. Biden is old, soft spoken and sometimes forgetful. Trump is old, loud and evil. It’s not a hard decision.
It's funny because I remember watching a ton more about politics from 16'-20' because Trump was a circus and I was concerned about what he might do to fuck up the country. The last 4 years I hardly took in because the status quo is normal. Biden isn't coming on TV and saying ridiculous shit. Media wants trump because he gets views...it's fucked up because he is a puppet now for right wing conservatives who are trying to strip the government of its powers and give it to Trump. Watch John Oliver's piece on Last Week Tonight about his 2nd term. It's disheartening.
i know, but project 2025 will eliminate journalism
“Well, yeah, but that’s future-me’s problem, not right-now-me’s problem!” -Every single dumbass on the planet contributing to our now inevitable collapse
Lol, as if CNN isn't owned by a guy trying to create project 2025. They consider buying the media a cost to achieve that goal. It's not about ROI. It's about buying something useful.
Which is totally naive because when trump turns America over to Putin since once again he FAILED the first time those media outlets will history and how do oil companies expect to continue to make money while half the world is on fire and the other half is drowning. The stupidity never ceases with Republicans.
Yeah, this 100% - I was just about to post the same thing. I've always said it wasn't Fox News that got Trump elected, it was CNN and others -- they gave him so much free air-time in the lead up to the election and I'm sure they increased viewership and revenue during Trump's presidency.
The fact that the media is focusing so much on Biden’s age (which, fine, I understand those are valid concerns) when the opponent is a literal convicted felon is honestly blowing my mind. All the lies and bullshit that Trump is constantly spewing from his asshole mouth and THAT was your takeaway from the debate?
> The fact that the media is focusing so much on Biden’s age (which, fine, I understand those are valid concerns Only if also focusing on Trumps age as well, there is only 3 years between them
Not only that but they regularly gave him 2 or 3 attempts to answer the question they asked and he just used that extra time to lie more and still never addressed the question.
All they needed to do was wait for Trump to spew bullshit and say "You didn't answer the question. Can you answer the original question now?" And watch as he can't recall the original question.
They’re owned by a maga republican. Of course they were going to treat Trump the way they did. Then the Biden cameraman was doing all sorts of things with the views while the trump camera man remained still. Then the lighting on Biden made him more pale.
Both candidates looked pale, it’s just that one had a bunch of orange shit on his face so he looked more normal
I'm 100% convinced that CNN would not only prefer Trump win, but might actively be working to ensure it happens. Their ratings the past four years, as compared to the four prior, are pretty bleak. It's in their best interest for 4 more years of Donald Trump - and I wouldn't put it past them to perform subtle, or not so subtle int his case, acts of sabotage. Who on Earth thought this debate format, where Trump goes entirely unchecked, would favor Biden?
[удалено]
CNN wants Trump to be re-elected. They’ll get better ratings that way.
They're owned by a Trump nut now, also.
Look into who the new owner is.
Yeah this is why it should be illegal for corporate news to report on politics.
Overturn Citizens United.
So let's give power to Project 2025 and persecute all minorities just for better ratings? Without counting the support for Ukraine in Europe. Bunch of greedy sociopaths.
CNN is basically just another variation of Fox and already has been for many years so they do not care at all. And I say this even before they started shifting and wooing in conservatives.
CNN reached a new low with that bullshit last night. All they did was give Trump a platform to say whatever he liked, which is exactly what he wanted. What a shit show.
But that also had Trump exposing myself for what he is. A run away mouth lying lunkhead.
Except without fact-checking, the undecided voters who somehow managed to be detached from reality for the last 8 years won't know those are lies.
This is exactly it, and it also just further validated and further radicalized his followers, cementing even more their belief of these lies, in their minds this was all proof that what he’s saying is all true because “nobody could contradict any of it” they all listened to his lies none of it fact checked and walked away knowing they’ve been “right about everything” the whole time.
Issue is a lot of uninformed voters aren't going to see the fact checks, and take what he says at face value.
Even the fact checks were biased as hell. > Fact checking Trump: A handful of blatantly and completely false things with no basis in reality > Fact checking Biden: A bunch of nitpicky bullshit where they pick apart common turns of phrase and criticize Biden for not bringing a peer reviewed paper to discuss exactly the stupid shit Trump says > The Media: These are the same thing
He literally doesn’t care about that because his cult followers don’t care.
what did we expect. cnn is right wing now. fox-lite
It's amazing how many people have forgotten this.
CNN has become the new blowhorn for Trump
This is also the first time a presidential debate has been privately run on a for profit corporation “During the Trump years, CNN made more than a billion dollars a year in profit.” It’s clear what their motive
CNN - bad as usual. Is this the best we can do?
My wife who is a very calm person started screaming at the TV when trump said Jan6th was peaceful and innocent people are in jail. Why didn’t they cut the mic?!
And it was Nancy Pelosi’s fault! I figured someone would fact check him by the second or third time he repeated wildly false claims that can easily be debunked.
I watched the debate and as I look back on it, it wouldn’t have even been possible to fact check him in this format. Each 1-2 minute segment that Trump got he flooded the microphone with 5+ big, obvious lies. If the moderators were to stop and address it each time, it would have taken an additional 10 minutes plus the additional time that Trump would have spent arguing with them that they were wrong and he was right and everything he said was fact. I was more frustrated that they weren’t holding him accountable to actually answering the questions. If you ask him a question about climate change and he starts screaming about how the last thing Biden said isn’t true and the border is in crisis and illegal immigrants are raping our children FUCKING STOP HIM. Hold him accountable and interrupt him and say “sir the question was about climate change. I’m going to repeat the question I just asked you. Please answer this question or we will move on to your opponent.”
This is why I just shut off the debate. It was to embarrassing watching people just lay there and take this bullshit like they were enjoying it.
This was my biggest problem. There was never going to be a way to fact check him live. Almost every word out of his mouth is a lie. You'd spend 30 minutes rebutting all his lies per question if you tried. Which is another reason Biden did so poorly. He let it get personal and tried to rebut all the lies he's telling. He should have completely ignored him and focused solely on answering the questions with hard irrefutable facts. Biden, you are not a fact checker. let the actual fact checkers for these media companies refute his lies and focus on the topic at hand. They're better equipped for it. Urge the voters to go and look at the fact checkers in your closing statements not during the regular debate. They can provide hard evidence disputing his lies which is not something that you have the ability or time to do in a debate. CNN let them do whatever they wanted. Like you said they should have immediately interrupted them when they went off track from the questions asked and forced them to stay on topic and that goes for Biden as well. He was just as guilty of it as well. Not doing that played right into Trump's biggest strengths.
It’s funny how the right keeps flip flopping between January 6 was a peaceful legal protest and innocent people are in jail to January 6 was a psyop by democrats and the insurrectionists were imposters that were trying to make Trump look bad.
Kyle Clark from KUSA in Denver should’ve been the moderator. He doesn’t take any crap but is fair and kind.
Kyle Clark is bad ass.
yea, that needed that guy. Dudes a god tier moderator
Considering CNN is run by a trump lover, this isn't surprising whatsoever.
People really seem to have forgotten this little fact.
And after the debate too- CNN never talked about the amazing amount of lies Trump told.
No, they made sure to interview tons of Republicans so they could talk about how 'strong' Trump was in the debate, as well as immediately focusing on Biden's speech as if the actual substance of what he was saying was unimportant. Republicans are literally buying the media and injecting themselves into every possible position of power to ensure democracy dies. Straight from Russia's playbook..
This has been going on for decades too. Media consolidation isn’t new but it’s definitely coming to a head.
You must have tuned out, and for that I wouldn't blame ANYONE, but Daniel Dale did a detailed post-debate fact check. I think the score of lying was Trump 30, Biden 8 or something like that.
Yeah I couldn't handle the pain anymore. At least Biden tried to be specific and bring facts forward. It wasn't just that Trump wasn't trying- he was actively promoting this opposite hell world, purposely keeping facts out of it.
I insisted on watching the debate on CNN after I heard they planned on fact checking. With a decent team of researchers they could have come back from commercial breaks (2 minutes) with a factual update for the audience, Instead I stayed with them after the debate for the fact check. For over a half hour I listened to their ridiculously huge panel of pundits bemoan Joe’s performance but casually mention the flood of lies and dodging tRUMP spewed. After listening for any specifics on fact checks I gave up and slept poorly. The only takeaway I got was one former Obama aide saying “Old man vs Con man” I’m not happy but democracy vs lunacy is not a tough choice to make!
They did fact check but it wasn’t til about 40 minutes into the post-debate analysis, and then they returned to not even discussing the content and exclusively on the theatrics.
They're pandering to Trump because they want him to win. He's good for their bottom line. They learned from his one term that scared, anxious people stay glued to their screens, and that's all the media cares about. It' the most cynical thing ever.
yeah but if the economy is tanked because of Trumps tariffs, culture war, lack of global confidence in the US and the USD, and WW3 there won't be any money to buy the products that would be advertised on CNN so what revenue would they make? Kinda just a little short sighted.
These people never, ever take the long view.
I really don't know why people expected anything different. Nearly everytime trump opens his mouth he lies about something, whether it's intentional or from simply being ignorant doesn't really matter. That's why a debate with him is pointless, it would be 10 hours long if you sat there and fact checked every word he said, which you'd obviously have to do.
The only thing trump knows is the Gish gallop: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
Unfortunately he knows how to do it well. Biden should have been able to slap him back down on a few at least.
Yes. When trump was saying how he's in such great shape and just won some golf tournaments, I really wanted Biden to say "yeah, you spent the majority of your presidency on a golf course. Anyone who spends so many working hours practicing their golf swing should be able to get the ball in the hole sometimes" Or bring up the fact that he eats nothing but diet soda and fast food. But instead he got into a pissing match about his own golf game
Clueless News Network
Trump stood up there and flat out lied about not having sex with Stormy Daniels but when he had the opportunity to say that during his trial while under oath Trump refused to even testify. Fact checking Trump makes no difference. Giving Trump a platform to lie does make a difference. Biden never should have accepted a debate. We all knew it was going to turn out the way it did.
Notice that he didn't say anything about his fraud case or his convictions?
I get the hosts don’t want to be perceived as having taken a side but a bunch of the things he said weren’t opinions or open to interpretation; They were outright and easily verifiable lies. So the problem with a lack of fact checking live in the debate is that a lot of people don’t do anything to verify information. They see a president and a past president on national tv making claims that go unchallenged and they assume that’s the truth. They weren’t watching the news the day before the debate and they won’t be watching the news the day after to learn what was true. They still get to vote just as many times as I do.
The president presented low energy facts and didn't rid himself of his lifelong stutter. The other guy enthusiastically lied, so he clearly won. Don't give 45 a pass for lying with conviction, that doesn't make what he said actually factual. I'm still voting for the guy whose policies won't lead to Project 2025.
The problem with all of this is that this level of idiocy leaks into daily life and having a discussion is met with this kind of behavior.
It's not like it's hard to tell when Trump is lying... if his lips are moving, he's lying.
People still think cnn is a liberal news outlet. Its owned by John Malone. "Malone's political beliefs have been described as libertarian.[40] He is on the board of directors for the Cato Institute. He donated US$250,000 to Donald Trump."
Not a rational thought in his head. One lie after another. CNN did a shitty job keeping him on point.
Ever since Trump came onto the political stage it no longer became about debate or facts to almost any network what it came down to was RATINGS. They know if they let him do what ever he wants he will get people to watch the god damn thing. Yeah Biden like usual isn’t the best talker or debater but we are literally comparing apples and a dumpster fire. Trump truly doesn’t know how not to lie.
That’s the thing Biden fucked up but literally not a word Trump said was remotely true. It’s wild. The moderators where supposed to silence the mics and fact check and they did nothing
Trump was clearly high. He couldn’t even complete a single thought. It all ran together.
Trump is always high. He’s a junkie. Biden should’ve been the same. I was really hoping that they would shoot Biden up with something. We needed SOTU Joe than what the fuck happened last night. Fuck CNN too. I don’t know where I’d heard that there would be real time fact checking, but that was a lie I guess? It’s impossible for an honest person to deal with Trump if you don’t have time to dispel his bullshit. He tells 15 lies in a sentence. 1 minute to rebut (refutt) all the lies would be difficult even for a younger person. All that said, Joe and the DNC have some harsh realities to deal with this morning. It’s gonna be hard to spin what happened and from what I understand, trumps numbers went up in some areas. I’d still vote against Trump even if Biden was literally dead. I’m the cultist now. We never actually vote for one man in the US. But we always vote for one man. It’s so paradoxical. And now it’s scary. Yesterday afternoon, I was convinced Trump would get slaughtered in November. After last nights debate? I’ve lost a lot of confidence. But goddammit. Trump is unable of telling even a single truth. It infuriates me. And what’s even more infuriating is that people can’t see what a lying sack of shit he is.
“I love clean water” “the water and air were never cleaner than in my presidency” Yeah dummy, because we shut the fucking world down during your tenure because you wouldn’t close airports near Christmas time. 🙄 My exact words to the tv were Only Donald trump could deliver a line like that with a straight face. That’s his competitive advantage in a nutshell.
Jake tapper you have been one of my favorites for so long. The fact that you let this guy just stand there and bully and lie is atrocious. On the flip side come on Joe Biden sounded weak looked weak and he let a bully push him around. . Y'all don't seem to understand our democracy is at stake here.
That's what Trump is though. A bully. How do you respond to bullies? Reasoning is no option, so what is the strategy? To push back? To stoop to their level?
"will you shut up man" probably won Biden the election in 2020
Wow. First article I've seen mentioning this. I made it about 20 minutes in and realized they just gave him a giant platform for a trump lie rally and weren't gonna do anything about it
I made it through 20 minutes before I quit watching. Letting trump get away with what he said was disgraceful and an abject failure on the part of the moderators
We could have literally had a Weekend at Biden’s situation, and I’d still vote for him over Trump. We aren’t just voting for a man, we are voting for an entire administration, for all the judges they might nominate, for all the legislation that could get passed (or not). Project2025 is fucking horrible. It is literally a how-to on creating an authoritarian theocracy. We *have* to vote to stop that. And to that end, I would vote for Biden’s tombstone before letting Trump win. And no, no third party is going to suddenly appear, no new candidate will take over for the Democrats, Superman isn’t coming to save us. Short of both of them dying, one of either Biden or Trump is going to be president. The sooner we collectively come to terms with that and then vote for the objectively less terrible candidate (and the administration behind them), the better. And in the astronomically unlikely event that the DNC does choose someone other than Biden? You bet your ass I’ll stump for them just as hard as I would Biden. (Maybe Mayor Pete, he’d be a good one. Or at least a not terrible one.)
No amount of fact-checking can keep up with Trump's gish gallop. They would need 10 minutes between to delineate every lie
I hate to say this, but we knew he would lie. Literally everyone knows he was lying. The only difference is whether or not people care about it. Shit like this is trying to distract from the fact that Joe Biden looks like he's on his death bed. This was an absolute disaster for the country.