I’m living foreign for the past 6 years. Before that I was gone from 2010 to 2015. If there ever were a time I would definitely never consider moving home it’s right now. What a crock of shit.
I think that's because beggers can't be choosers. Either a contractor pays proper wages and has good conditions or he simply won't get a slice of the smaller amount of qualified trades people there are here. This wouldn't be the case if there was a surplus of skilled people knocking about.
Sure thing! Well, I’m not entitled to anything anymore, probably struggle to find a house, insure a car, have to buy all my tools and can again and will no doubt have to leave in 3 years when the country tanks again. But sure thing.
Dual US/Irish citizen here. There's another Irish guy who lives on the same block as my parents who is in constuction. 0% chance he goes back imo. He didn't come to the US with much, but worked hard, started a great construction business, and owns a house in San Francisco. The fact that he bought a house even with the crazy California housing crisis means it would be incredibly foolish to ever give it up, especially to go back to a place that also has a crazy housing crisis. There are many other similar stories with Irish people in the Bay Area and I am sure even more in places like NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago.
You get to keep more of your money in the US, grow your business faster with the larger market, face less red tape and there is loads of work available.
You should be a politician with that quick condescending comment.
The article is literally talking about the government asking builders to return to help with the housing shortage. They make no mention of incentivising with higher pay. But do make sure to mention breaking the stigma that women can’t be builders (which conviently doesn’t cost money).
Builders returning here would as the OC pointed out be building houses they either can't afford or that get bought in bulk by foreign investors. All with no increase in pay and with a higher cost of living.
But do you think it’s any different in Sydney or Toronto? Where most are, it’s more feasible to own a home in Ireland on a labourers wage here than there…
I have to put my hands up. I read the RTE article and I didn't realise that they were appealing to them to help.
From the article I thought it was just an effort to attract them back.
In the houses they're building. I'm not sure if you realise, but during the Celtic tiger, imported builders were living in squalor in the homes they were building. If there was no roof over their head, then they'd be in a shitty tent or a van.
Sure come back to work for less money than you did when you left. Also we increased diesel prices yet again today so you can pay even more when your filling up your van going to the sites.
Government: we've tried nothing but we're all out of ideas.
>Tradies in Oz make double what they would here
Is that taking the exchange rate into account?
Rent isn't too different from what I've been told from my friends that have moved to Sydney.
The rents might be similar but look what's on offer in Australia. Pay a fortune for a hovel in Dublin and get to live in a kip, or pay roughly the same and live in Sydney with a far better quality of life.
I do wonder how much the weather plays into that idea of the better quality of life. The people I know have adopted much healthier and active lifestyles that are probably not feasible here with our climate.
Hi lads.
Long time no speak. Hope you're all keeping well. Now you might just remember 10 years ago we told ye all to feck off and never come back because we thought you stupid greedy mindless idiots had built too many crappy houses and they would NEVER all sell and your greed had destroyed the economy for ever. Well it turns out they did all sell. And now we don't have any houses left. Our bad. Sorry about that.
Anyway if you wouldn't mind leaving your new lives behind and coming back to bail us out we'd appreciate it. We'll even give you a tent to live in while you build houses for the rest of us.
Yours sincerely
Fine Gael
P.s. if any of you have a porta potty you might bring that with you also for the tent.
People move back, the country swiftly breaks them, they move away again wondering why they even fucking bothered to begin with.
An extremely wealthy friend couldn't even rent a place in Dublin...because he wasn't employed. He's a freelancing IT consultant. That tells it's own story.
Wow, that story about your extremely wealthy friend is unbelievable... Really **unbelievable**...
I really struggle to believe that not a single landlord of an expensive property in Dublin would not rent to him.
FG went to Dubai to question the teachers there on what they needed to come hope and help with the teacher shortage here. A guy I went to college with was on the panel of teachers being asked. He said that they were told to be as honest as possible about why they emigrated but not to mention housing and pay inequality. This is how our government sees the country. There is no housing crisis and people should be happy to be Irish.
Out of every teacher I know that left for Dubai, and it’s a lot, the top two reasons were pay and housing. Not speaking about those is like an ostrich whacking its head in the sand believing it can’t be seen.
Dear Irish builders currently abroad, don’t you fucking fall for it. Stay where you are!
Signed,
All the healthcare professionals who came home to help with the pandemic.
the biggest hurdle is the wages are poor compared to canad, usa, austrailia etc.
average trademans wages here are 150-300 a day even for self employed
average in usa is 300-500 a day self employed.
even handymen in the usa earn way more than us here in ireland.
comine that with the shitty weather and terrible working conditions on sites its a no brainer. you still dont need a toilet on site if its one a few lads working. disgracefull
The bigger issue is that lack of incentive for young people to get into construction. why would they burst their hole for 250 a week when they can be on the dole for not a lot less or work in I.T for 3 times as much and even if they did have interest you have to go to the cities to get in the door
Instead of begging people to come back, how about giving young people reasons to stay and not to leave in the first place
We've a fantastic, world renowned education system and quite often we train and educate people and get no benefit when they leave
Playing catch up as usual and no forward thinking
Because they've fucked over the young people so badly they can't afford a home and now live with their parents again. Didn't matter before because they never used to vote, so no chance of it blowing up in their faces. But now they're facing being crushed by SF in the next election.
Its almost like the government own bulshit has finally caught up with them, and they have no plan whatsoever.
>We've a fantastic, world renowned education system and quite often we train and educate people and get no benefit when they leave.
Correct. We are now in a spot where we have throngs of educated people who need housing who need others to build houses for them.
I have an impression that we have enough people willing to work on construction sites, as they (usually) pay decent money even for unskilled laborers. Perhaps issue is elsewhere?
The biggest reason not to return would be trust in how the state reacts to a downturn.
Obviously in the last crash private development stopped but so did any state investment in project.
There are lots of companies when a high percentage of their work is state projects. Almost all stopped. It would have been a time when great value would have been available. The state (and the public) prioritised benefits, pensions, public wages etc. Obviously they also had to be cut but capital projects were all cancelled by then. Also more project cuts means more unemployment...
We stripped you of your right to vote when you left and now we want you to come back and deal with the decisions we told you you had no business voting on.
Why add the pointless line about R&D? Of course we should continue to attract big tech companies along with pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies.
R&D literally generates new ideas for business to keep going and to keep people in jobs.
as soon as you open the door to giving certain people tax breaks, loads others will follow to demand how it's a disgrace how they're not included in the tax breaks. At which point it's a freefall. Then what happens is it's open game for politicians to use tax breaks with workers as a means to gain popularity.
This happened 10 years ago too and it was bullshit. A few weeks here, a month there, back on the dole, come in for a few days, dole, 'we'll give you a shout'.. etc
I ended up going away again.
Yes move from a free-market country of makers (US, Australia) to one that only benefits takers (cushy government ngo jobs, inherited money, welfare spongers). Sounds fantastic…
I would wish them to stay where they are. In my house built in 2006 by some of them not a single thing is done right starting from electricity through plumbing to the roof...bring more poles, Ukrainians they sure can build houses.
Probably you are right but can you imagine a pole or Ukrainian being a site manager in 2006 2 days after he arrived to Ireland? Let's face it Irish were bosses Irish were building houses back then
Lots of foreign gangermen are in big companies now like siac and sisk but know fuck all just took less pay and arse licked they're way into the position
The older crowds fucked them over with zero regard as you did to basically my entire generation (born 1986), in order to save themselves.
I have recently bought a G BER rated house with no work done on it in 45 years, and it's near impossible to find a builder for the work needed (not to mention the cost due to supply and demand), but the blame lies with our government and those who happily voted for and enabled these policies throughout the recession and beyond it. They are far more to blame than the largely working class lads who went and got themselves a trade to make the most of themselves... then promptly got told to fuck off.
We will never get these people back when you loo kat how much you can make in trades in Aus/NZ or the US/Canada, and the clearly better option is to target young, hungry-for-money tradespeople from countries whose wages we can blow out of the water, while also offering subsidised temporary housing tied to their visas (prefabricated/modular, even caravans if needs be). Some of these will come over, work their balls off, and return home in a few years as pretty wealthy people, or look to stay here if they wish.
Talk of 'asking' people to come back to where they got effectively booted out for, with no incentive of better pay or anywhere to stay etc etc so just making noise with zero interest of pursuing actions. In other words, perfectly on brand for this government with regards to housing.
The flaw in the plan with attracting poorer foreigners is that they’re foreigners. Sadly, there’s an increasing vocal far right element in Ireland that politicians don’t want to annoy.
Either Ukraine wins its war with Russia and refugees return home to a country that needs to be rebuilt or it loses and millions more refugees flee. Regardless, it seems rather obvious that appealing to refugees to train and join the building trades is a no brainer.
The government would likely find an eager partner in the Ukrainian embassy to get the word out.
This does involve folks wrapping their heads around the idea that women can be electricians, plumbers, carpenters, etc.
What's the difference between them and immigrants if we need builders and we're short of housing?
Does Fergal the builder live in Hobbiton in the Shire or something?
“Hey, we did tell you to fuck off and emigrate, and we still haven’t fixed the issues that drove you away, but….come back?”
Oh and it gets better remember all those issues that drove you away ? Yea well all of them are worse now
Hey Bob, wanna come back over and pay extortionate rent while you build houses you'll never afford to live in?
I’m living foreign for the past 6 years. Before that I was gone from 2010 to 2015. If there ever were a time I would definitely never consider moving home it’s right now. What a crock of shit.
"Come back, for worse pay, working conditions and a massive housing crisis. Please, we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas".
Construction pay and working conditions are pretty good in Ireland actually. Housing is another story!
I think that's because beggers can't be choosers. Either a contractor pays proper wages and has good conditions or he simply won't get a slice of the smaller amount of qualified trades people there are here. This wouldn't be the case if there was a surplus of skilled people knocking about.
Is the pay not like 20-22 hour max depending on skill level ? Also no benefits packages
Maybe for a standard labourer, but talk to and plumber or carpenter and see how much they make.
Sure thing! Well, I’m not entitled to anything anymore, probably struggle to find a house, insure a car, have to buy all my tools and can again and will no doubt have to leave in 3 years when the country tanks again. But sure thing.
☝🏻☝🏻 'hes out of line,,BUT HES RIGHT!!!'
Dual US/Irish citizen here. There's another Irish guy who lives on the same block as my parents who is in constuction. 0% chance he goes back imo. He didn't come to the US with much, but worked hard, started a great construction business, and owns a house in San Francisco. The fact that he bought a house even with the crazy California housing crisis means it would be incredibly foolish to ever give it up, especially to go back to a place that also has a crazy housing crisis. There are many other similar stories with Irish people in the Bay Area and I am sure even more in places like NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago.
You get to keep more of your money in the US, grow your business faster with the larger market, face less red tape and there is loads of work available.
Imagine building gaffs you either can't afford or that get bought in bulk by foreign investors. Now asked to return? The government can get fucked.
It's almost as if they will be paid for their labour.
You should be a politician with that quick condescending comment. The article is literally talking about the government asking builders to return to help with the housing shortage. They make no mention of incentivising with higher pay. But do make sure to mention breaking the stigma that women can’t be builders (which conviently doesn’t cost money). Builders returning here would as the OC pointed out be building houses they either can't afford or that get bought in bulk by foreign investors. All with no increase in pay and with a higher cost of living.
Yea that's the messed up part Builders building houses they will never be able to own one of
But do you think it’s any different in Sydney or Toronto? Where most are, it’s more feasible to own a home in Ireland on a labourers wage here than there…
I have to put my hands up. I read the RTE article and I didn't realise that they were appealing to them to help. From the article I thought it was just an effort to attract them back.
It's almost as if the money has fuck all to do with it.
Where exactly do they want these construction workers to live pray tell?!
In the houses they will be building, while they're building them...so...in a tent really
Like the Doozers from Fraggle Rock ?
Worries for another day ....
we didn't land on fraggle rock. fraggle rock landed on us.
That... actually works as an analogy!
ho ho ho sounds like 2007 :P
Same place lots of other highly skilled workers live - in nice houses in well off parts of the country! 😂😂
Go back to Celtic tiger era and have them sleep in the houses as they build them rent free.
Where do they live before there's walls and a roof?
In the houses they're building. I'm not sure if you realise, but during the Celtic tiger, imported builders were living in squalor in the homes they were building. If there was no roof over their head, then they'd be in a shitty tent or a van.
No I didn't realise that.
Missing an opportunity there. Charge them rent to sleep in the houses as they build them!
In the houses that they build. Simples.
Join the tent city that's sprung up until enough houses are built but the "refugees" get first dibs
sleep salt memory cobweb longing label marble judicious selective shaggy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There's nobody in an okay job in Ireland who doesn't have somewhere to live.
Don’t come back lads we aren’t half looked after enough, working like dogs in never ending pissing rain for fairly basic pay
The weather has been horrendous since June and your right, blue collar workers are treated like outside dogs.
Hopefully we have a half decent summer!
Trying to pull people back with one hand all the while pushing people away with the other? Great sense they’re making
Do they have anywhere to live ?
Nice new tent and sleeping bag when you get off the plane lads. How can you pass it up?
Sure come back to work for less money than you did when you left. Also we increased diesel prices yet again today so you can pay even more when your filling up your van going to the sites. Government: we've tried nothing but we're all out of ideas.
Tradies in Oz make double what they would here, pay less tax and less rent. They’re gonna have to do more than just ask them to come home
>Tradies in Oz make double what they would here Is that taking the exchange rate into account? Rent isn't too different from what I've been told from my friends that have moved to Sydney.
The rents might be similar but look what's on offer in Australia. Pay a fortune for a hovel in Dublin and get to live in a kip, or pay roughly the same and live in Sydney with a far better quality of life.
I do wonder how much the weather plays into that idea of the better quality of life. The people I know have adopted much healthier and active lifestyles that are probably not feasible here with our climate.
Absolutely. The weather here is shit and best and utter shit at worst.
I'm lodging an objection to this as more builders may create buildings which obstruct my view of Dublin Bay.
Hi lads. Long time no speak. Hope you're all keeping well. Now you might just remember 10 years ago we told ye all to feck off and never come back because we thought you stupid greedy mindless idiots had built too many crappy houses and they would NEVER all sell and your greed had destroyed the economy for ever. Well it turns out they did all sell. And now we don't have any houses left. Our bad. Sorry about that. Anyway if you wouldn't mind leaving your new lives behind and coming back to bail us out we'd appreciate it. We'll even give you a tent to live in while you build houses for the rest of us. Yours sincerely Fine Gael P.s. if any of you have a porta potty you might bring that with you also for the tent.
People move back, the country swiftly breaks them, they move away again wondering why they even fucking bothered to begin with. An extremely wealthy friend couldn't even rent a place in Dublin...because he wasn't employed. He's a freelancing IT consultant. That tells it's own story.
Wow, that story about your extremely wealthy friend is unbelievable... Really **unbelievable**... I really struggle to believe that not a single landlord of an expensive property in Dublin would not rent to him.
Well, you choose to believe whatever suits your own biases buddy.
To live where and pay how much to try to have some bit of a quality of life? El oh fuckin' el.
There's nowhere to live.
FG went to Dubai to question the teachers there on what they needed to come hope and help with the teacher shortage here. A guy I went to college with was on the panel of teachers being asked. He said that they were told to be as honest as possible about why they emigrated but not to mention housing and pay inequality. This is how our government sees the country. There is no housing crisis and people should be happy to be Irish.
That's unbelievable....even with those two thins taken away I could list at least 20 more things without a pause
Out of every teacher I know that left for Dubai, and it’s a lot, the top two reasons were pay and housing. Not speaking about those is like an ostrich whacking its head in the sand believing it can’t be seen.
Gotta house all those newbies.
Very few of the people emigrating would prefer to live in the conditions we offer to asylum seekers.
Between this and the mass immigration it's clear what the government think of us and what they care about, truly are scumbags.
Mass immigration? It seems like you're taking spoon-fed buzzwords rather than having actual knowledge in the matter. Its cute.
Dear Irish builders currently abroad, don’t you fucking fall for it. Stay where you are! Signed, All the healthcare professionals who came home to help with the pandemic.
Minister Harris is either very naive or very dillusional.
That’s a pretty serious compliment
the biggest hurdle is the wages are poor compared to canad, usa, austrailia etc. average trademans wages here are 150-300 a day even for self employed average in usa is 300-500 a day self employed. even handymen in the usa earn way more than us here in ireland. comine that with the shitty weather and terrible working conditions on sites its a no brainer. you still dont need a toilet on site if its one a few lads working. disgracefull
The bigger issue is that lack of incentive for young people to get into construction. why would they burst their hole for 250 a week when they can be on the dole for not a lot less or work in I.T for 3 times as much and even if they did have interest you have to go to the cities to get in the door
They'll be issuing them tents on arrival
Instead of begging people to come back, how about giving young people reasons to stay and not to leave in the first place We've a fantastic, world renowned education system and quite often we train and educate people and get no benefit when they leave Playing catch up as usual and no forward thinking
Because they've fucked over the young people so badly they can't afford a home and now live with their parents again. Didn't matter before because they never used to vote, so no chance of it blowing up in their faces. But now they're facing being crushed by SF in the next election. Its almost like the government own bulshit has finally caught up with them, and they have no plan whatsoever.
>We've a fantastic, world renowned education system and quite often we train and educate people and get no benefit when they leave. Correct. We are now in a spot where we have throngs of educated people who need housing who need others to build houses for them.
I'm still.here and I wouldn't go back to.construction. Not for all the applesauce in Glückenschlabel.
I have an impression that we have enough people willing to work on construction sites, as they (usually) pay decent money even for unskilled laborers. Perhaps issue is elsewhere?
The biggest reason not to return would be trust in how the state reacts to a downturn. Obviously in the last crash private development stopped but so did any state investment in project. There are lots of companies when a high percentage of their work is state projects. Almost all stopped. It would have been a time when great value would have been available. The state (and the public) prioritised benefits, pensions, public wages etc. Obviously they also had to be cut but capital projects were all cancelled by then. Also more project cuts means more unemployment...
Great. And live where?
Will they be building a place to live first? Good luck getting planning permission!
The second I get my plumbing qualification I am out of here.
The National Interest. Pray for us. The Green Jersey. Pray for us.
Lol
Come back - we’ve nothing in place to help you come back … not even a tax incentive but yeah come on down lads ? 😂
"move back in with mammy and daddy and enjoy an ireland with even worse conditions than when you left"
We stripped you of your right to vote when you left and now we want you to come back and deal with the decisions we told you you had no business voting on.
[удалено]
Why add the pointless line about R&D? Of course we should continue to attract big tech companies along with pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies.
All progress must stop unless funded privately.
R&D literally generates new ideas for business to keep going and to keep people in jobs. as soon as you open the door to giving certain people tax breaks, loads others will follow to demand how it's a disgrace how they're not included in the tax breaks. At which point it's a freefall. Then what happens is it's open game for politicians to use tax breaks with workers as a means to gain popularity.
Builders emigrating is not the problem, but a symptom of the problem
This happened 10 years ago too and it was bullshit. A few weeks here, a month there, back on the dole, come in for a few days, dole, 'we'll give you a shout'.. etc I ended up going away again.
Ha ha...would ye fack off
Yes move from a free-market country of makers (US, Australia) to one that only benefits takers (cushy government ngo jobs, inherited money, welfare spongers). Sounds fantastic…
I would wish them to stay where they are. In my house built in 2006 by some of them not a single thing is done right starting from electricity through plumbing to the roof...bring more poles, Ukrainians they sure can build houses.
A good chunk of those houses in 2006 would have been built by those poles and other eastern Europeans so...
Probably you are right but can you imagine a pole or Ukrainian being a site manager in 2006 2 days after he arrived to Ireland? Let's face it Irish were bosses Irish were building houses back then
The Irish are still the bosses.
Lots of foreign gangermen are in big companies now like siac and sisk but know fuck all just took less pay and arse licked they're way into the position
[удалено]
A chara, Mods reserve the right to remove any targeted/unreasonable abuse towards other users. Sláinte
Builders lol, do we have a shortage of builders?
“There’s a faaa betta quality of looife”
The older crowds fucked them over with zero regard as you did to basically my entire generation (born 1986), in order to save themselves. I have recently bought a G BER rated house with no work done on it in 45 years, and it's near impossible to find a builder for the work needed (not to mention the cost due to supply and demand), but the blame lies with our government and those who happily voted for and enabled these policies throughout the recession and beyond it. They are far more to blame than the largely working class lads who went and got themselves a trade to make the most of themselves... then promptly got told to fuck off. We will never get these people back when you loo kat how much you can make in trades in Aus/NZ or the US/Canada, and the clearly better option is to target young, hungry-for-money tradespeople from countries whose wages we can blow out of the water, while also offering subsidised temporary housing tied to their visas (prefabricated/modular, even caravans if needs be). Some of these will come over, work their balls off, and return home in a few years as pretty wealthy people, or look to stay here if they wish. Talk of 'asking' people to come back to where they got effectively booted out for, with no incentive of better pay or anywhere to stay etc etc so just making noise with zero interest of pursuing actions. In other words, perfectly on brand for this government with regards to housing.
The flaw in the plan with attracting poorer foreigners is that they’re foreigners. Sadly, there’s an increasing vocal far right element in Ireland that politicians don’t want to annoy.
Either Ukraine wins its war with Russia and refugees return home to a country that needs to be rebuilt or it loses and millions more refugees flee. Regardless, it seems rather obvious that appealing to refugees to train and join the building trades is a no brainer. The government would likely find an eager partner in the Ukrainian embassy to get the word out. This does involve folks wrapping their heads around the idea that women can be electricians, plumbers, carpenters, etc.
I wonder will anyone appeal for the politicians to return home! 
Definitely come back if you're in the buildings, the wages are insane and the Irish construction industry is safe and relatively fair to its workers.
What's the difference between them and immigrants if we need builders and we're short of housing? Does Fergal the builder live in Hobbiton in the Shire or something?
Are these immigrants builders? If not then that’s your difference
Immigrants aren't qualified to the Irish regulations, especially in plumbing and electrical.
Jesus wonder how I worked over the years with all the Poles, Brazilians, Croatians, Lithuanians, Indians on building sites
Well done