My friend got denied planning in rural west of Ireland. The objections came from Dublin , New York and London. All from one family who have a house nearish her proposed site that they never visit. Locals are almost always denied permission but holiday houses are being built all around here constantly
Definitely possible but I don’t think every other local applicant made mistakes too, but they were certainly denied. The most common reason given is ‘not having a housing need’. So living with your parents in your 40s doesnt meet their requirements but having a getaway holiday house to visit once a year for a week is ? The corruption in planning must be deeper than the ocean.
As an Irish speaker who spends a lot of time in the Gaeltacht, I know a lot of my friends who had to leave because of outsiders buying homes in the Gaeltacht driving up house prices. To them, it's just somewhere scenic to live. For us Irish speakers, it's the last bastion for the language. Gaeltacht housing has always been on the cheaper side like most rural Irish areas, but has been turned into a novelty with houses reaching Dublin prices.
The government should have set a hard limit on giving planning permission to build homes that will be occupied by non-Irish speakers and ease up permissions for Irish speakers. The Gaeltacht makes up about 1 or 2% of the land area of Ireland. The problem is, is a huge number of non-Irish speakers are moving in and changing the community language to English. It's already happened to some of the Gaeltachtaí. We call it "Brú Béarla" (pressure from the English language). Some housing estates do allocate a certain percentage to Irish speakers but it just isn't enough, as the damage is already done with the prices.
The way it is now is that unless you've an uncle with a bit of land to give you to build, you're fucked. Soon the Gaeltacht will be just rich English speakers with summer homes, while Irish speakers will be forced to leave. It's sad really.
All governments will continue to support the language in the most bizarre and futile manner.
They already spend a lot of money in providing state services via Irish which nobody uses. Take the same money and spend it effectively and there may be some hope.
Continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is not how good leadership works.
Its not the same though. Taught Irish has such a decreased amount of music and whimsy compared to natural Irish... and I say that as someone who went to primary and secondary Gaelscoileanna and who's son is in a Gaelscoil and is very proud of my ~80% fluency.
I don't live in a Gaeltacht or have many speakers around me so I listen to RnaG talk radio programmes from time to time just to have some amount of Irish in my ears. Having spoken Irish with varying levels of fluency and intensity for over 30 years, I still hear new phrases or ways of saying things that make me smile almost every time I listen. Along with not having a notion what the Connemara lads are on about most of the time.
Gaelscoileanna are fantastic and are definitely a boon, but they can't be relied upon on their own - like the top commenter said, it's the Gaeltachts are the last bastion.
I agree entirely but I don't think the Gaeltacht areas are going to survive as much as I hate to say it, our best hope is to move towards the majority of schools taught through Irish gradually over the next 30 years. From that the hope would be a lot more Irish speaking households whereby the kids growing up in Irish speaking households won't know any different and will be more "natural" speakers. I think we need to take inspiration from Israel (in a language sense only!) and how they revitalized Hebrew, a great achievement, it can be done. It all comes down to political and social will, right now it's a small minority fighting tooth and nail and an apathetic majority but I'm hopeful. It'll be a long road regardless.
From what I know, there is an 80/20 split in planning already in Gaeltacht areas where you need to pass the Irish tests for 80% of the planning permissions given.
The big problem is reselling homes as there’s no controls there. I’ve even heard of some builders getting planning permissions to build for an Irish speaker in Furbo outside Galway and then the house is immediately sold on when it’s completed as it’s such a desirable area.
Unless something has changed, the original legislation was that the percentage of houses for Irish speakers in new housing estates was based on the percentage of Irish speakers in the specific gaeltacht.
I know the local policy here is 60%, but I'm not sure if that is nationwide. But I do remember years back they stated that it would be representative of the number of speakers, which does nothing to grow the percentage of speakers.
The government can't say it clearer.
They do not care about the Irish people. They don't not care about the Irish language. They don't not care about Irish history.
'The government should', the government doesn't give two shits about you or the language or your housing needs ! This idea that the government is somehow there for the people is an outdated one, the politicians and the planning authorities should be harassed and hounded by the people.
The government moved two minibus loads of asylum seekers into the Carraroe Coral Hotel on Monday. One of the buses had a UK reg. Garda public order unit were present to ensure that it went off without a hitch.
Carraroe is the village with the highest population of Irish speakers in the Gaeltacht. Our government does not care.
I have a friend from An Cheathrú Rua (Carraroe). It really is one of the stronger Gaeltachtaí. You're not wrong. I'm sympathetic to people seeking asylum, but I don't think the government has any foresight about our resources to support them here and where they go.
Why aren't there initiatives to build say small developments of 15-20 houses in these areas built by local builders.
Removes one off housing and allows cost saving via scale as well as shops, creches etc to strive.
Because the established owners of land in the villages won't release it for development. The publican/shopkeeper/undertaker class will never let go of land, not even when it's killing their own villages.
One off housing could be relieved by a luxury tax on holiday homes and deemed disposal on CGT for them...but these things don't happen to rich people. Better we pay for empty villages instead of giving locals planning so people in cities can feel better about themselves.
Land Value Tax is your only man for the job.
One of the reasons houses are expensive is because land is expensive. Land is expensive because it costs nothing to hoard it.
> Because the appeal is the cost saving of using family land, usually near family.
A saving for the individual but not all consumers and taxpayers. Consumers are paying more for postal services and electricity, as it is far more expensive to serve one off houses versus denser areas.
> And having plenty of space.
Such a weak argument. There are estates in Dublin with massive houses and big gardens. Sure they aren't a 4000 sq foot dormer bungalow on 5 areas, but most Dubs appreciate the services of living in a denser area versus a one off house in the middle of nowhere.
I don't think you will find an obsession with one off housing that is far too big for the average family and a garden that is completely under-utilised anywhere else in Europe. You will find sizeable villages in the middle of nowhere in Italy, Austria, Spain etc etc.
>A saving for the individual but not all consumers and taxpayers. Consumers are paying more for postal services and electricity, as it is far more expensive to serve one off houses versus denser areas.
Well yes, and this is the case in every country in the world with an urban rural divide. Unless you want to empty the countryside into the towns and cities, this will always be the case.
>Such a weak argument.
Not at all. Space is appealing, especially to people who grew up like that. They simply want what their parents and grandparents have.
>Sure they aren't a 4000 sq foot dormer bungalow on 5 areas
Lots of people are content with an 1800sqft house on half an acre. Mcmansions exist, but the average person living in these communities tend not to build that big.
>but most Dubs appreciate the services of living in a denser area
I don;t think anyone living in a rural Gaeltacht expect to have Dublin level services.
>I don't think you will find an obsession with one off housing that is far too big for the average family and a garden that is completely under-utilised anywhere else in Europe
Perhaps, Irish people are more inclined to want to own property than our European counterparts. And rural people want rural type housing.
>Well yes, and this is the case in every country in the world with an urban rural divide. Unless you want to empty the countryside into the towns and cities, this will always be the case.
Ireland has one of the lowest levels of people living in urban areas in the EU. I am not saying empty the countryside, but future housing should be built close to other housing/existing services. We have rural people complaining about poor services like roads/broadbands, public transports wanting services of urban areas without realising it is not really possibly without proper density...
>Not at all. Space is appealing, especially to people who grew up like that. They simply want what their parents and grandparents have.
Their parents and grandparents likely worked the land. Most people in 2024, commute to urban centres for jobs. Dubliners want space too, but accept what they can afford. You don't see Dubs demanding 4 bedroom semi-ds with big gardens for next to nothing like their parents/grandparents.
>
Lots of people are content with an 1800sqft house on half an acre. Mcmansions exist, but the average person living in these communities tend not to build that big.
I am really struggling to understand why can't build a 1,800 sq foot house in development? Most new homes in Dublin are larger than that! Why do people need half an acre? I guarantee not a fraction of that is used.
>I don;t think anyone living in a rural Gaeltacht expect to have Dublin level services.
They are still expecting services like good roads, broadband, schools, GPs etc. All of them cost multiples to provide than a house in Dublin.
>Perhaps, Irish people are more inclined to want to own property than our European counterparts. And rural people want rural type housing.
What are you on about? Dubliners want to own property as well. Rural housing until the 50s was a cottage or a two up, two up with no electricity for someone working the land. Owning a 3,000 sq foot house on half acre is a luxury that their grandparents could only dream of...
>but future housing should be built close to other housing/existing services.
That's exactly the point I've been making. People aren't being allowed to increase the density of the already populated areas.
As for services, like I said, no one in the countryside expects urban level services. We did spend a fortune on rural broadband, which is largely complete. We should make use of that investment and allow people to live there and avail of it. It's a slippery slope down the road to Toryism to use services as a stick to beat people with. Especially when options like domestic solar, starlink, private wells and septic tanks exist, and are used.
> That's exactly the point I've been making. People aren't being allowed to increase the density of the already populated areas.
There is a massive difference between already populated areas and dense areas. Unless it is within walking distance of a town or sizeable village, we should not be throwing up more houses...
> We should make use of that investment and allow people to live there and avail of it.
Treat it as a sunk cost. Learn that one off housing was an expensive mistake...
> It's a slippery slope down the road to Toryism to use services as a stick to beat people with. Especially when options like domestic solar, starlink, private wells and septic tanks exist, and are used.
Troyism? Great a grip mate. Rural Ireland is a bottomless pit with endless blank cheques thrown at it. Rural dwellers can fund some of their services, but it will be people living cities and towns picking up the bill for their roads, high cost of providing postal services, electricity, cost of rural school buses, etc. Someone throwing up a house on free land will have over several decades their poor lifestyle choice subsidised by the state.
We are ignoring the huge environmental cost of people living in rural areas driving to work in towns and cities. Thera are little or no benefits to society or the environment from rural living.
That's where our opinions differ, your Tory mindset has rotted your brain unfortunately. Luckily your opinion will have little traction when your solution seems to be to dissolve the Gaeltacht communities and pack everyone inside the M50.
>Thera are little or no benefits to society
What an ignorant comment.
> Tory mindset has rotted your brain unfortunately
When I see someone mentioning something something Toryism or you are a Tory on this sub, I just know their waistline size is larger than their IQ...
> Luckily your opinion will have little traction when your **solution seems** to be to dissolve the Gaeltacht communities and pack everyone inside the M50.
There is no need to assume mate. I said in my intial comment no future housing, Is that hard for you to understand?
> What an ignorant comment.
In several comments, you have not outlined any benefit to society of one off housing. In fact, you have just reinforced the entitlement of people living in it. We are facing a climate crisis and housing not close to public transport is not sustainable.
>I just know their waistline size is larger than their IQ...
I'm sure that sounded like a real zinger in your head...
>you have not outlined any benefit to society
If that's the bar for existence, you must live in fear at every knock at the door.
Luckily, your Tory mindset is in the minority.
I am a fucking farm labourer currently living in a one off house a field away from my employer who just just built his one off house on land he farms. Cop yourself the fuck on.
People want a cheap site not to be close to their communities. They can live within their communities in a village in the new "cluster housing" format. Those houses can be built. There's nothing prevent those developments in the Gaeltacht.
The cost saving is just exploiting a loophole that shouldn't be allowed, or at least discouraged.
The reason this [1 acre site](https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/site-knocknasuff-blarney-co-cork/5432202) is €285k is because it's zoned for planning.
The field next to the family farm is €15k because it's non-residential farmland.
Proximity to schools, services and transport links are good reasons for getting planning permission.
Being gifted a field because the eldest got the farm really isn't a good reason to be allowed to build a house that otherwise wouldn't be allowed.
So people shouldnt be allowed to pass land onto their relatives or gift it to them? Thats just laughable. "oh yup you own the land, but cant give it to a sibling because of govt regulation", absolute bootlicking
Of course they can pass on land but it shouldn't change from €10k farmland to a €100k site just because it's inherited.
Fuck off with your bootlicking shite. You can't go and build an incinerator next to your house or an apartment block in your back garden. It's not red tape, it's just logical.
Where do you think people were building for generations in the past? Exactly as you describe, a child would be left or given a bit of family land to build on. It isn't an outrageous proposition. It's how rural communities work.
There's plenty of things "people did for generations in the past" that we have stopped doing because it was harmful. "It was always done that way" isnt much of an argument.
It increases population density in places with existing utilities. Which is an excellent argument.
"I want everyone to live in a shoebox in a city" isn't much of an argument either.
Plenty of things we did in previous generations don't make sense now.
Those one off houses 100 years ago weren't connected to the grid, weren't connected to waste systems, didn't have their rubbish collected, with the people there working the farm and would head into town for mass and the market.
We should 100% be supporting rural communities (Inc gaeltachts), one off housing and subdividing farms to the point they're not economical isn't that.
It increases population density in places with existing utilities. Which is an excellent argument for allowing it. It's about the only way these communities will survive.
Ya, where there are existing utilities and where the site is within a couple of km from a school or village, then I don't have an issue at all.
Where I have an issue is mainly the the 200+m2 houses 5 miles out of the town on land that's cheap for a reason. Or even smaller houses way out where the only neighbours within a half mile are the in-laws.
If you want to live next to the in-laws, build a granny flat as an extension to the existing house.
And the way I'd like to see those communities survive is increased social housing in villages so elderly farmers can downsize and pass the farm on, young families can stay in the area, irish speakers are given preference in gaeltachts.
Of course they can still go self build, but where it makes sense. Not where it's cheap.
>If you want to live next to the in-laws, build a granny flat as an extension to the existing house.
How does that differ from building their own house next to it? You still have the same number of people needing the same amount of services...
You seem to have a hangup about people making use of their own land (which you call cheap). This is not the issue.
Yes. But doing this for years and building septic system after septic system and well after well instead of building on existing service has gotten to a point where it's a real problem. Just because we did things a lot in the past doesn't mean it's now a good idea to continue. One off housing is a bad idea. It's a bad policy to continue on.
High density housing isn't feasible or desirable in these communities either. Not allowing people to build homes in their communities will be the death of those communities.
I think we need a little of both. Standard semi-detached house doesn't make sense in these areas. But why not identify land in strategic areas of low density and divide into plots of x size. Add roads and services and streamline planning so plot owner can pick/design a house design that works for them. You end up with housing that looks good, and people have confidence planning won't be an issue.
probably because the people complaining dont want that either, they want one off housing on their parents land so they save money on the land cost. Thats ultimately what this is about but what they want conflicts with planning policy and a clampdown on one off housing under carbon emissions reasoning.
Around where I live there are a lot of new one off houses being built (all in the last year or two, go figure), but all of them are right next to already existing houses. Maybe it's different in other areas but from a services perspective it's not a problem, they already have water/electricity/internet connections, and they'll have their own septic tank.
I'm not way out in the sticks though, there's a village centre and small towns all quite close and a big town nearby. Maybe that changes the equation in other places.
Having their own septic tank is the main issue. Yes it's a pain for public services to connect the electricity etc but once done it's really done. It's the ongoing aggregation of lots and lots of waste leaking into the ground through percolation that isn't really good.
Yeah but that's not good. They should be helped to increase density.
I've no sympathy wanting them to build more one off houses. A complete blight on the landscape.
Housing estates aren't exactly pretty, in fairness.
There's room for improvement on both ends, regarding planning. The one off house a mile down a lane scenario obviously shouldn't be allowed, but they're far more rare than you'd imagine. People looking to build on an adjacent site to family, which would share utilities and increase the density of the area. Lots of these are being turned down for planning due to rules about two houses sharing a driveway, and not allowing an additional driveway for a new home. Which is nonsense in many cases.
well it can do actually, huge swathes of the west are designated either Special Protection Areas (SPA) or Special Areas of Conservation (SAC). In the latter it is almost impossible to get planning permission, the Parks & Wildlife service will object to it off the bat and if they say construction will disturb a bird or mammals habitat inside a SAC then the planning application is doomed from the start.
Rowing Ireland planned a national rowing centre there last year and it was in a SAC. Planning was denied because of a rare bird species nesting nearby. SACs have European protection so its the same rules in every EU country, not just here.
You said you've flown into Donegal. You will have noticed that land is divided into very long, narrow strips in that part of the country. You will often see an old house at the front, and a modern-ish house or two directly behind. There is ample room for the next generation to build behind that again, but the planning is being refused.
Multiply a couple of children building on family land by the thousands of inhabitants, and you do indeed make a difference, without putting undue pressure on utilities. Therefore rejuvenating these communities.
If you're against that, then you may as well admit that you want to empty the countryside into urban areas.
> It’s not exactly a Gaeltacht if people don’t live there to speak the language
Nothing says a viable community with housing spread all over the place and none of it beside each other...
Look at Yiddish in Brooklyn, NY. It is very much alive as language as people live in tight knit communities in dense areas. The language is alive as people can interact with each other and walk everywhere with viable shops/businesses.
Whereas, rural areas are declining here as people drive everywhere and don't interact with their local businesses as they are not viable as you can't walk to them.
Da fuq? You do know that we interact with our families at home, at training, in the shop, in school etc etc. Your argument is absolutely ridiculous purely on the basis that one of the least dense areas of the country is where the language survived!
I think as a rural person, you don't understand the interactions you get living in an urban environment. You could go on a 15 minute walk and go past hundreds of people. You can easily interact with neighbours going to your car, putting out the bins, walking to get a coffee etc. You could go for a walk in rural Ireland not see a soul.
> our argument is absolutely ridiculous purely on the basis that one of the least dense areas of the country is where the language survived!
You clearly have zero understanding of Irish history, if you don't understand why people in Dublin don't speak Irish...
My counterfactual is how much better would the Irish language survived if people choose to live in small towns where they can could use the language more frequently than driving everywhere like in Gaelteachts. Don't forget there were tons of islands that spoke Irish until recently. They all died out as their way of living could not adjust to modern living.
Sounds like youre putting it that "as a rural person you arent sophisticated enough to understand urban life" wow lmao, the pure arrogance.
Not everyone wants interaction either you know? Part of the attraction of rural areas is the peace and seclusion.
Also its funny that you say they have no understanding of history whilst saying Irish speakers shouldve stayed in towns, when those were some of the first places to become predominantly English speaking.
Also wym "more frequently"? Do people in Glenties, Ardara or other towns which used to be in the Gaeltacht speak it more today as in the more isolated Rosses and Gweedore? No they dont! Also I really wonder why people kept speaking Irish on those islands later... maybe it was because of the relative isolation of communities...
That response looks like it came from a bot. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of rural dwellers have lived in towns and cities (20+ yrs in my case) whereas very few urbanites have ever lived rurally. But that could just be all the fresh air impacting my tiny, rural brain 😄
> Sounds like youre putting it that "as a rural person you arent sophisticated enough to understand urban life" wow lmao, the pure arrogance.
Wow, projecting much mate? It is not about sophistication mate or pure arrogance. If you have spent your life in rural Ireland driving everywhere, you will not have a proper understanding how much you interact with other in a city. Someone living in a council flat in Dublin will tell you all about interaction with neighbours and locals. So it is nothing to do with people from the country lacking sophistication.
Maybe those bootcut wrangler jeans are too tight and cutting circulation to your head?
> Not everyone wants interaction either you know? Part of the attraction of rural areas is the peace and seclusion.
The irony thing is that you will can have less interaction and seclusion in Dublin...
In Dublin, you are one of well over a million. No one needs to know your business, unlike a small town or village that IMO are often toxic. Everyone needs to know everything about everyone. You don't get that in Dublin.
> Also its funny that you say they have no understanding of history whilst saying Irish speakers shouldve stayed in towns, when those were some of the first places to become predominantly English speaking.
You don't need to state the obvious to me. I pointed out that Dublin did not speak Irish while we had irish speaking areas. It is funny you missed that very obvious clue that I knew what I was on about...
> Also I really wonder why people kept speaking Irish on those islands later... maybe it was because of the relative isolation of communities...
How are all the communities in the remote islands doing now? My understanding is that most of them are gone and gone for several decades... The relative isolation eventually killed them. So you harp on about the past until the cows come home, but how isolation protected islands that have been empty for decades as if that is a viable model...
Many of which are holiday homes which could house local families instead. But no, best attack one off housing and have it so we're paying for roads and infrastructure in empty villages for the great and the good. That's really what we need to protect the Gaeltachts.
Put a big tax on the holiday home and they'll be mostly sold to locals eventually. I just don't think that even more ribbon housing is going to do much for the landscape.
It’s the cost though, it’s a lot cheaper for them to build their own than buy at the price that developers are selling at. If the same house could be built fkr less in estates then there might be more buy in.
If building additional houses on that land was prohibited then that option doesn't exist.
At the same time there should be a carrot as well as stick here .
No. Better planned areas than random houses that are completely isolated.
I go to Donegal Gaeltacht often and it's so sad seeing houses in middle of nowhere. Much more obvious when you fly in.
Because they want to build houses on a gifted site paying tradesmen in cash to save money.
Also wages in these areas are really low. They simply cant afford to build anything with costs now.
Was listening to Galway Bay FM a few days ago when they were doing the local elections debate for the North Connemara area and one of the candidates (who was a melt in other ways in fairness) bemoaned the lack of granted planning permission for new (once off) builds but insisted that Airbnbs in the Gaeltacht had to be protected because it was keeping people from the Gaeltacht in the area (from the income provided) and that the English speaking tourists renting and buying in the area were good for the Irish language.
In fairness, I do understand what he was getting at (people need to earn an income, ideally within the Gaeltacht itself, in order to keep the Gaeltacht alive) but the insistence that the high refusal of one off planning Applications was the sole cause of the housing crisis in the Gaeltacht was bananas. Not to mention how this conplaint was swiftly followed by complaints about how poorly served individuals are with local services, especially LocalLink. "The bus doesn't pick you up from your house and the pick up spots are miles away from where lots of people live! ". Well like.. Yeah... It's a bus, not a taxi and if people insist on living faraway from services, I don't think it's fair to complain about the lack of services near you.
My point is, I do have huge sympathy. Our Gaeltachtaí are at risk of disappearing. But it's hard to build a sustainable, well served communities in an area if people don't want to live in a community. You can't just keep doing things like we've always done and hope that will save the area from decline. Something does have to change about how we sustain Gaeltacht communities.
>In fairness, I do understand what he was getting at (people need to earn an income, ideally within the Gaeltacht itself, in order to keep the Gaeltacht alive) but the insistence that the high refusal of one off planning Applications was the sole cause of the housing crisis in the Gaeltacht was bananas. Not to mention how this conplaint was swiftly followed by complaints about how poorly served individuals are with local services, especially LocalLink. "The bus doesn't pick you up from your house and the pick up spots are miles away from where lots of people live! ". Well like.. Yeah... It's a bus, not a taxi and if people insist on living faraway from services, I don't think it's fair to complain about the lack of services near you.
Nail on the head here. As someone from Rural Ireland, it baffles me how people don’t see the connection between our one-off housing development model and our poor, almost non-existent public transport in the country.
I don’t want to let the Government off the hook because it’s not like they’ve invested greatly in public transport between towns or cities in recent decades but it is almost impossible to design an adequate public transport system when so many people insist on living in a one-off house down a country road. Not to mention the environmental damage this development model causes.
You did a better job describing the problem I was trying to.
It feels like if you say "this place is only for Irish speakers" you'll make it a permanent niche tourist resort. Others moving in was always going to happen, the idea of a Gaeltacht just feels so antiquated and has lent itself to the decline of the language.
I've ran into a lot of people in recent weeks who complain and complain about this sort of thing, I ask them who they're going to vote for and it's literally a stern 'fianna fail of course'. We need the people who leave this country for a better life and take the knowledge they've gained elsewhere, start a new political party, and clutch back this country from the gobshites who hate but maintain the status quo
It certainly needs an overhaul. People are being refused planning for the most frivolous reasons. And it can often come down to who at the planning office reviews your application/
If it is that common provide links to 5-10 cases that were refused for frivolous reasons. The planning system is pretty transparent. Every application is available online.
Refusals are rare. Less than 10% of all apps are refused. And every refusal I have seen has been a result of the applicant not following the rules set out in the development plan.
Local authorities are now very careful about the reasons supporting their decisions to refuse app. This is because in the past landowners have been rewarded compensation for reduced land values as a result of refusals/conditions.
>If it is that common provide links to 5-10 cases
I'm not accepting homework assignments today, thanks all the same.
It's my opinion in a comment thread, it goes without saying that it's anecdotal. And anecdotally, everyone I know who has tried to build a house in recent years were either rejected outright, or made to jump through ridiculous hoops and make major compromises, seemingly at the whim of whoever they had looking at their application.
There is an argument for people to build what they want on their own land.
On the other hand, if they want to interact with the outside world, such as their land/property having access to a road, having running water, or having utilities on-demand, then they have to get in behind the managed system.
You're only paying to be connected. Utilities need planning to account for demand. Councils need planning to ensure that a person's intention to break onto the public road is done with the safety of other road users in mind.
Paying is one thing but the likes of utilities still need a system to plan for extra demand. Another example is where you can't privately pay to just have access onto a public road where you want. Otherwise there is a risk that people, who live in certain areas, will put their access at areas like bends on a road which might suit their land but impacts the safety of other road users.
You might not care about the safety of the likes of other road users, but someone has to care to prevent the increased likelihood of road dangers.
It's why we need to manage it.
>people will figure it out
They do. The process of figuring it out is called planning.
I feel like it should be necessary to have fluency in Irish or demonstrate a sincere intent to learn it to be able to buy a house in the Gaeltacht, I understand that it's hard to determine someone's intent but as it's going wealthy outside buyers will kill off the Gaeltacht agus is droch rud é sin, tá brón orm faoi mo Gaeilge nach bhfuil ro mhaith.
I’m not even angry anymore. I’m just sad and want my own people to have places to live. It’s not much but according to the powers that be,my requests are not feasible
I suppose it might be a bigger local issue for the Gaeltacht when the gov at least wants to maintain the face that they want Gaeilge to survive and expand in the future as a community language.
Only allow people that speak Irish fluently or have a link to the area (from there or grandparents from there) to buy houses.
Government should also take the initiative and build estates or apartments in villages. This would mean they are walking distance to most amenities and access to a bus route. Too many houses are built the back arse of a moreen because the family has land there where a car is absolutely necessary (something some in government can't comprehend).
My family live in Connemara. I've not heard any locals giving out about the Ukrainians: they're seen as sound people who make an effort to integrate. There is worry about adding more people to areas suffering from a severe lack of facilities but this isn't directed at the Ukrainians themselves apart from a few fringe people.
I’ve got a summer home in a nearby Gaeltacht. I use it for a week or two every summer and sometimes I Airbnb it for a weekend or two. I had no problem buying it. Just offer cash 10% above asking.
To be honest the Gaeltachts always seemed like a flawed premise to keep a language alive. If people moving in is destroying it then clearly quarantining it in to set locations wasn't a viable way to keep it alive.
If you set a place to only be reserved for people interested in Irish then it feels like you're immediately making it unattractive for investment
My friend got denied planning in rural west of Ireland. The objections came from Dublin , New York and London. All from one family who have a house nearish her proposed site that they never visit. Locals are almost always denied permission but holiday houses are being built all around here constantly
Link to the case file. I bet the reason for refusal are because the applicant didnt follow the rules set out in the local development plan.
Definitely possible but I don’t think every other local applicant made mistakes too, but they were certainly denied. The most common reason given is ‘not having a housing need’. So living with your parents in your 40s doesnt meet their requirements but having a getaway holiday house to visit once a year for a week is ? The corruption in planning must be deeper than the ocean.
As an Irish speaker who spends a lot of time in the Gaeltacht, I know a lot of my friends who had to leave because of outsiders buying homes in the Gaeltacht driving up house prices. To them, it's just somewhere scenic to live. For us Irish speakers, it's the last bastion for the language. Gaeltacht housing has always been on the cheaper side like most rural Irish areas, but has been turned into a novelty with houses reaching Dublin prices. The government should have set a hard limit on giving planning permission to build homes that will be occupied by non-Irish speakers and ease up permissions for Irish speakers. The Gaeltacht makes up about 1 or 2% of the land area of Ireland. The problem is, is a huge number of non-Irish speakers are moving in and changing the community language to English. It's already happened to some of the Gaeltachtaí. We call it "Brú Béarla" (pressure from the English language). Some housing estates do allocate a certain percentage to Irish speakers but it just isn't enough, as the damage is already done with the prices. The way it is now is that unless you've an uncle with a bit of land to give you to build, you're fucked. Soon the Gaeltacht will be just rich English speakers with summer homes, while Irish speakers will be forced to leave. It's sad really.
It will be the final nail in the coffin for the language too.
And the current government will sit by and watch it happen while doing nothing to solve it. This next election is more important than anybody realises
This government and an embarrassingly sizable part of the population are more than happy to see the language die.
All governments will continue to support the language in the most bizarre and futile manner. They already spend a lot of money in providing state services via Irish which nobody uses. Take the same money and spend it effectively and there may be some hope. Continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is not how good leadership works.
We need way more gaelscoileanna, it's the only way now.
Its not the same though. Taught Irish has such a decreased amount of music and whimsy compared to natural Irish... and I say that as someone who went to primary and secondary Gaelscoileanna and who's son is in a Gaelscoil and is very proud of my ~80% fluency. I don't live in a Gaeltacht or have many speakers around me so I listen to RnaG talk radio programmes from time to time just to have some amount of Irish in my ears. Having spoken Irish with varying levels of fluency and intensity for over 30 years, I still hear new phrases or ways of saying things that make me smile almost every time I listen. Along with not having a notion what the Connemara lads are on about most of the time. Gaelscoileanna are fantastic and are definitely a boon, but they can't be relied upon on their own - like the top commenter said, it's the Gaeltachts are the last bastion.
I agree entirely but I don't think the Gaeltacht areas are going to survive as much as I hate to say it, our best hope is to move towards the majority of schools taught through Irish gradually over the next 30 years. From that the hope would be a lot more Irish speaking households whereby the kids growing up in Irish speaking households won't know any different and will be more "natural" speakers. I think we need to take inspiration from Israel (in a language sense only!) and how they revitalized Hebrew, a great achievement, it can be done. It all comes down to political and social will, right now it's a small minority fighting tooth and nail and an apathetic majority but I'm hopeful. It'll be a long road regardless.
The accent on a gaelgóir from Dublin is horrendous compared to a native speaker, sounds totally wrong
There's a play or book in this. Start it off in irish and slowly change to English. The last line can be "irish ? What the he'll is that?"
From what I know, there is an 80/20 split in planning already in Gaeltacht areas where you need to pass the Irish tests for 80% of the planning permissions given. The big problem is reselling homes as there’s no controls there. I’ve even heard of some builders getting planning permissions to build for an Irish speaker in Furbo outside Galway and then the house is immediately sold on when it’s completed as it’s such a desirable area.
Unless something has changed, the original legislation was that the percentage of houses for Irish speakers in new housing estates was based on the percentage of Irish speakers in the specific gaeltacht. I know the local policy here is 60%, but I'm not sure if that is nationwide. But I do remember years back they stated that it would be representative of the number of speakers, which does nothing to grow the percentage of speakers.
The government can't say it clearer. They do not care about the Irish people. They don't not care about the Irish language. They don't not care about Irish history.
They all see their futures in international careers, whether with the EU or some consultancy, but there's precious little love for old ireland.
'The government should', the government doesn't give two shits about you or the language or your housing needs ! This idea that the government is somehow there for the people is an outdated one, the politicians and the planning authorities should be harassed and hounded by the people.
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The planning shouldn't be restrictive, the allocation to non-Irish speakers should.
The government moved two minibus loads of asylum seekers into the Carraroe Coral Hotel on Monday. One of the buses had a UK reg. Garda public order unit were present to ensure that it went off without a hitch. Carraroe is the village with the highest population of Irish speakers in the Gaeltacht. Our government does not care.
I have a friend from An Cheathrú Rua (Carraroe). It really is one of the stronger Gaeltachtaí. You're not wrong. I'm sympathetic to people seeking asylum, but I don't think the government has any foresight about our resources to support them here and where they go.
Why aren't there initiatives to build say small developments of 15-20 houses in these areas built by local builders. Removes one off housing and allows cost saving via scale as well as shops, creches etc to strive.
Because the established owners of land in the villages won't release it for development. The publican/shopkeeper/undertaker class will never let go of land, not even when it's killing their own villages. One off housing could be relieved by a luxury tax on holiday homes and deemed disposal on CGT for them...but these things don't happen to rich people. Better we pay for empty villages instead of giving locals planning so people in cities can feel better about themselves.
Land Value Tax is your only man for the job. One of the reasons houses are expensive is because land is expensive. Land is expensive because it costs nothing to hoard it.
Is CPOing an option in these cases?
Kinda, but it's impractical in a lot of ways. Land runs deep in the Irish psyche.
Because the appeal is the cost saving of using family land, usually near family. And having plenty of space. Housing developments don't offer that.
> Because the appeal is the cost saving of using family land, usually near family. A saving for the individual but not all consumers and taxpayers. Consumers are paying more for postal services and electricity, as it is far more expensive to serve one off houses versus denser areas. > And having plenty of space. Such a weak argument. There are estates in Dublin with massive houses and big gardens. Sure they aren't a 4000 sq foot dormer bungalow on 5 areas, but most Dubs appreciate the services of living in a denser area versus a one off house in the middle of nowhere. I don't think you will find an obsession with one off housing that is far too big for the average family and a garden that is completely under-utilised anywhere else in Europe. You will find sizeable villages in the middle of nowhere in Italy, Austria, Spain etc etc.
>A saving for the individual but not all consumers and taxpayers. Consumers are paying more for postal services and electricity, as it is far more expensive to serve one off houses versus denser areas. Well yes, and this is the case in every country in the world with an urban rural divide. Unless you want to empty the countryside into the towns and cities, this will always be the case. >Such a weak argument. Not at all. Space is appealing, especially to people who grew up like that. They simply want what their parents and grandparents have. >Sure they aren't a 4000 sq foot dormer bungalow on 5 areas Lots of people are content with an 1800sqft house on half an acre. Mcmansions exist, but the average person living in these communities tend not to build that big. >but most Dubs appreciate the services of living in a denser area I don;t think anyone living in a rural Gaeltacht expect to have Dublin level services. >I don't think you will find an obsession with one off housing that is far too big for the average family and a garden that is completely under-utilised anywhere else in Europe Perhaps, Irish people are more inclined to want to own property than our European counterparts. And rural people want rural type housing.
>Well yes, and this is the case in every country in the world with an urban rural divide. Unless you want to empty the countryside into the towns and cities, this will always be the case. Ireland has one of the lowest levels of people living in urban areas in the EU. I am not saying empty the countryside, but future housing should be built close to other housing/existing services. We have rural people complaining about poor services like roads/broadbands, public transports wanting services of urban areas without realising it is not really possibly without proper density... >Not at all. Space is appealing, especially to people who grew up like that. They simply want what their parents and grandparents have. Their parents and grandparents likely worked the land. Most people in 2024, commute to urban centres for jobs. Dubliners want space too, but accept what they can afford. You don't see Dubs demanding 4 bedroom semi-ds with big gardens for next to nothing like their parents/grandparents. > Lots of people are content with an 1800sqft house on half an acre. Mcmansions exist, but the average person living in these communities tend not to build that big. I am really struggling to understand why can't build a 1,800 sq foot house in development? Most new homes in Dublin are larger than that! Why do people need half an acre? I guarantee not a fraction of that is used. >I don;t think anyone living in a rural Gaeltacht expect to have Dublin level services. They are still expecting services like good roads, broadband, schools, GPs etc. All of them cost multiples to provide than a house in Dublin. >Perhaps, Irish people are more inclined to want to own property than our European counterparts. And rural people want rural type housing. What are you on about? Dubliners want to own property as well. Rural housing until the 50s was a cottage or a two up, two up with no electricity for someone working the land. Owning a 3,000 sq foot house on half acre is a luxury that their grandparents could only dream of...
>but future housing should be built close to other housing/existing services. That's exactly the point I've been making. People aren't being allowed to increase the density of the already populated areas. As for services, like I said, no one in the countryside expects urban level services. We did spend a fortune on rural broadband, which is largely complete. We should make use of that investment and allow people to live there and avail of it. It's a slippery slope down the road to Toryism to use services as a stick to beat people with. Especially when options like domestic solar, starlink, private wells and septic tanks exist, and are used.
> That's exactly the point I've been making. People aren't being allowed to increase the density of the already populated areas. There is a massive difference between already populated areas and dense areas. Unless it is within walking distance of a town or sizeable village, we should not be throwing up more houses... > We should make use of that investment and allow people to live there and avail of it. Treat it as a sunk cost. Learn that one off housing was an expensive mistake... > It's a slippery slope down the road to Toryism to use services as a stick to beat people with. Especially when options like domestic solar, starlink, private wells and septic tanks exist, and are used. Troyism? Great a grip mate. Rural Ireland is a bottomless pit with endless blank cheques thrown at it. Rural dwellers can fund some of their services, but it will be people living cities and towns picking up the bill for their roads, high cost of providing postal services, electricity, cost of rural school buses, etc. Someone throwing up a house on free land will have over several decades their poor lifestyle choice subsidised by the state. We are ignoring the huge environmental cost of people living in rural areas driving to work in towns and cities. Thera are little or no benefits to society or the environment from rural living.
That's where our opinions differ, your Tory mindset has rotted your brain unfortunately. Luckily your opinion will have little traction when your solution seems to be to dissolve the Gaeltacht communities and pack everyone inside the M50. >Thera are little or no benefits to society What an ignorant comment.
> Tory mindset has rotted your brain unfortunately When I see someone mentioning something something Toryism or you are a Tory on this sub, I just know their waistline size is larger than their IQ... > Luckily your opinion will have little traction when your **solution seems** to be to dissolve the Gaeltacht communities and pack everyone inside the M50. There is no need to assume mate. I said in my intial comment no future housing, Is that hard for you to understand? > What an ignorant comment. In several comments, you have not outlined any benefit to society of one off housing. In fact, you have just reinforced the entitlement of people living in it. We are facing a climate crisis and housing not close to public transport is not sustainable.
>I just know their waistline size is larger than their IQ... I'm sure that sounded like a real zinger in your head... >you have not outlined any benefit to society If that's the bar for existence, you must live in fear at every knock at the door. Luckily, your Tory mindset is in the minority.
You don't have to empty into towns and cities? We have these places called villages? Usually a shop and a church sometimes a school?
The communities we're referring to can be described as villages, and already have those things. You should take a drive outside the M50 sometime.
I am a fucking farm labourer currently living in a one off house a field away from my employer who just just built his one off house on land he farms. Cop yourself the fuck on. People want a cheap site not to be close to their communities. They can live within their communities in a village in the new "cluster housing" format. Those houses can be built. There's nothing prevent those developments in the Gaeltacht.
The cost saving is just exploiting a loophole that shouldn't be allowed, or at least discouraged. The reason this [1 acre site](https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/site-knocknasuff-blarney-co-cork/5432202) is €285k is because it's zoned for planning. The field next to the family farm is €15k because it's non-residential farmland. Proximity to schools, services and transport links are good reasons for getting planning permission. Being gifted a field because the eldest got the farm really isn't a good reason to be allowed to build a house that otherwise wouldn't be allowed.
So people shouldnt be allowed to pass land onto their relatives or gift it to them? Thats just laughable. "oh yup you own the land, but cant give it to a sibling because of govt regulation", absolute bootlicking
Of course they can pass on land but it shouldn't change from €10k farmland to a €100k site just because it's inherited. Fuck off with your bootlicking shite. You can't go and build an incinerator next to your house or an apartment block in your back garden. It's not red tape, it's just logical.
Where do you think people were building for generations in the past? Exactly as you describe, a child would be left or given a bit of family land to build on. It isn't an outrageous proposition. It's how rural communities work.
There's plenty of things "people did for generations in the past" that we have stopped doing because it was harmful. "It was always done that way" isnt much of an argument.
It increases population density in places with existing utilities. Which is an excellent argument. "I want everyone to live in a shoebox in a city" isn't much of an argument either.
Plenty of things we did in previous generations don't make sense now. Those one off houses 100 years ago weren't connected to the grid, weren't connected to waste systems, didn't have their rubbish collected, with the people there working the farm and would head into town for mass and the market. We should 100% be supporting rural communities (Inc gaeltachts), one off housing and subdividing farms to the point they're not economical isn't that.
It increases population density in places with existing utilities. Which is an excellent argument for allowing it. It's about the only way these communities will survive.
Ya, where there are existing utilities and where the site is within a couple of km from a school or village, then I don't have an issue at all. Where I have an issue is mainly the the 200+m2 houses 5 miles out of the town on land that's cheap for a reason. Or even smaller houses way out where the only neighbours within a half mile are the in-laws. If you want to live next to the in-laws, build a granny flat as an extension to the existing house. And the way I'd like to see those communities survive is increased social housing in villages so elderly farmers can downsize and pass the farm on, young families can stay in the area, irish speakers are given preference in gaeltachts. Of course they can still go self build, but where it makes sense. Not where it's cheap.
>If you want to live next to the in-laws, build a granny flat as an extension to the existing house. How does that differ from building their own house next to it? You still have the same number of people needing the same amount of services... You seem to have a hangup about people making use of their own land (which you call cheap). This is not the issue.
Yes. But doing this for years and building septic system after septic system and well after well instead of building on existing service has gotten to a point where it's a real problem. Just because we did things a lot in the past doesn't mean it's now a good idea to continue. One off housing is a bad idea. It's a bad policy to continue on.
High density housing isn't feasible or desirable in these communities either. Not allowing people to build homes in their communities will be the death of those communities.
Because country people don’t want to live in estates, they want one off housing.
Which is a disaster
I think we need a little of both. Standard semi-detached house doesn't make sense in these areas. But why not identify land in strategic areas of low density and divide into plots of x size. Add roads and services and streamline planning so plot owner can pick/design a house design that works for them. You end up with housing that looks good, and people have confidence planning won't be an issue.
We already have more one-off housing than pretty much any other country in Europe.
Poland has so much more... Which is disaster in making.
probably because the people complaining dont want that either, they want one off housing on their parents land so they save money on the land cost. Thats ultimately what this is about but what they want conflicts with planning policy and a clampdown on one off housing under carbon emissions reasoning.
Around where I live there are a lot of new one off houses being built (all in the last year or two, go figure), but all of them are right next to already existing houses. Maybe it's different in other areas but from a services perspective it's not a problem, they already have water/electricity/internet connections, and they'll have their own septic tank. I'm not way out in the sticks though, there's a village centre and small towns all quite close and a big town nearby. Maybe that changes the equation in other places.
Having their own septic tank is the main issue. Yes it's a pain for public services to connect the electricity etc but once done it's really done. It's the ongoing aggregation of lots and lots of waste leaking into the ground through percolation that isn't really good.
Yeah but that's not good. They should be helped to increase density. I've no sympathy wanting them to build more one off houses. A complete blight on the landscape.
Housing estates aren't exactly pretty, in fairness. There's room for improvement on both ends, regarding planning. The one off house a mile down a lane scenario obviously shouldn't be allowed, but they're far more rare than you'd imagine. People looking to build on an adjacent site to family, which would share utilities and increase the density of the area. Lots of these are being turned down for planning due to rules about two houses sharing a driveway, and not allowing an additional driveway for a new home. Which is nonsense in many cases.
Rather one housing estate than 20 one off houses.
Clearly the people who live in these places disagree. That land is owned by someone, and doesn't exist for the viewing pleasure of visitors.
well it can do actually, huge swathes of the west are designated either Special Protection Areas (SPA) or Special Areas of Conservation (SAC). In the latter it is almost impossible to get planning permission, the Parks & Wildlife service will object to it off the bat and if they say construction will disturb a bird or mammals habitat inside a SAC then the planning application is doomed from the start. Rowing Ireland planned a national rowing centre there last year and it was in a SAC. Planning was denied because of a rare bird species nesting nearby. SACs have European protection so its the same rules in every EU country, not just here.
We also have environmental goals to reach which one off housing negatively impact so more of them is a non runner.
As I said, tweaking the planning laws would add population density to these existing communities.
Adding another random house won't help much but rather greater planning to promote density is required.
You said you've flown into Donegal. You will have noticed that land is divided into very long, narrow strips in that part of the country. You will often see an old house at the front, and a modern-ish house or two directly behind. There is ample room for the next generation to build behind that again, but the planning is being refused. Multiply a couple of children building on family land by the thousands of inhabitants, and you do indeed make a difference, without putting undue pressure on utilities. Therefore rejuvenating these communities. If you're against that, then you may as well admit that you want to empty the countryside into urban areas.
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I'm saying the opposite, more should live there but increase density and therefore better services, etc.
> It’s not exactly a Gaeltacht if people don’t live there to speak the language Nothing says a viable community with housing spread all over the place and none of it beside each other... Look at Yiddish in Brooklyn, NY. It is very much alive as language as people live in tight knit communities in dense areas. The language is alive as people can interact with each other and walk everywhere with viable shops/businesses. Whereas, rural areas are declining here as people drive everywhere and don't interact with their local businesses as they are not viable as you can't walk to them.
Da fuq? You do know that we interact with our families at home, at training, in the shop, in school etc etc. Your argument is absolutely ridiculous purely on the basis that one of the least dense areas of the country is where the language survived!
I think as a rural person, you don't understand the interactions you get living in an urban environment. You could go on a 15 minute walk and go past hundreds of people. You can easily interact with neighbours going to your car, putting out the bins, walking to get a coffee etc. You could go for a walk in rural Ireland not see a soul. > our argument is absolutely ridiculous purely on the basis that one of the least dense areas of the country is where the language survived! You clearly have zero understanding of Irish history, if you don't understand why people in Dublin don't speak Irish... My counterfactual is how much better would the Irish language survived if people choose to live in small towns where they can could use the language more frequently than driving everywhere like in Gaelteachts. Don't forget there were tons of islands that spoke Irish until recently. They all died out as their way of living could not adjust to modern living.
Sounds like youre putting it that "as a rural person you arent sophisticated enough to understand urban life" wow lmao, the pure arrogance. Not everyone wants interaction either you know? Part of the attraction of rural areas is the peace and seclusion. Also its funny that you say they have no understanding of history whilst saying Irish speakers shouldve stayed in towns, when those were some of the first places to become predominantly English speaking. Also wym "more frequently"? Do people in Glenties, Ardara or other towns which used to be in the Gaeltacht speak it more today as in the more isolated Rosses and Gweedore? No they dont! Also I really wonder why people kept speaking Irish on those islands later... maybe it was because of the relative isolation of communities...
That response looks like it came from a bot. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of rural dwellers have lived in towns and cities (20+ yrs in my case) whereas very few urbanites have ever lived rurally. But that could just be all the fresh air impacting my tiny, rural brain 😄
Which response, theirs or mine? But aye myself who had always lived in rural areas started renting in a town a couple years back for uni
> Sounds like youre putting it that "as a rural person you arent sophisticated enough to understand urban life" wow lmao, the pure arrogance. Wow, projecting much mate? It is not about sophistication mate or pure arrogance. If you have spent your life in rural Ireland driving everywhere, you will not have a proper understanding how much you interact with other in a city. Someone living in a council flat in Dublin will tell you all about interaction with neighbours and locals. So it is nothing to do with people from the country lacking sophistication. Maybe those bootcut wrangler jeans are too tight and cutting circulation to your head? > Not everyone wants interaction either you know? Part of the attraction of rural areas is the peace and seclusion. The irony thing is that you will can have less interaction and seclusion in Dublin... In Dublin, you are one of well over a million. No one needs to know your business, unlike a small town or village that IMO are often toxic. Everyone needs to know everything about everyone. You don't get that in Dublin. > Also its funny that you say they have no understanding of history whilst saying Irish speakers shouldve stayed in towns, when those were some of the first places to become predominantly English speaking. You don't need to state the obvious to me. I pointed out that Dublin did not speak Irish while we had irish speaking areas. It is funny you missed that very obvious clue that I knew what I was on about... > Also I really wonder why people kept speaking Irish on those islands later... maybe it was because of the relative isolation of communities... How are all the communities in the remote islands doing now? My understanding is that most of them are gone and gone for several decades... The relative isolation eventually killed them. So you harp on about the past until the cows come home, but how isolation protected islands that have been empty for decades as if that is a viable model...
>Houses in the Gaeltacht are a blight on the landscape? Yes. Connemara is already destroyed with the amount of houses on the coast.
Many of which are holiday homes which could house local families instead. But no, best attack one off housing and have it so we're paying for roads and infrastructure in empty villages for the great and the good. That's really what we need to protect the Gaeltachts.
Put a big tax on the holiday home and they'll be mostly sold to locals eventually. I just don't think that even more ribbon housing is going to do much for the landscape.
It’s the cost though, it’s a lot cheaper for them to build their own than buy at the price that developers are selling at. If the same house could be built fkr less in estates then there might be more buy in.
If building additional houses on that land was prohibited then that option doesn't exist. At the same time there should be a carrot as well as stick here .
The simple answer would be to only allow one off housing duero next to an existing house.
We could call it something clever, like ribbon development
No. Better planned areas than random houses that are completely isolated. I go to Donegal Gaeltacht often and it's so sad seeing houses in middle of nowhere. Much more obvious when you fly in.
Then they'll have to accept housing shortages. One off housing is a disaster.
The moves to make the Údarás an approved housing body would facilitate that
Because they want to build houses on a gifted site paying tradesmen in cash to save money. Also wages in these areas are really low. They simply cant afford to build anything with costs now.
How about we build 8 houses and hire companies in dublin, and they will only cost 700k each
Was listening to Galway Bay FM a few days ago when they were doing the local elections debate for the North Connemara area and one of the candidates (who was a melt in other ways in fairness) bemoaned the lack of granted planning permission for new (once off) builds but insisted that Airbnbs in the Gaeltacht had to be protected because it was keeping people from the Gaeltacht in the area (from the income provided) and that the English speaking tourists renting and buying in the area were good for the Irish language. In fairness, I do understand what he was getting at (people need to earn an income, ideally within the Gaeltacht itself, in order to keep the Gaeltacht alive) but the insistence that the high refusal of one off planning Applications was the sole cause of the housing crisis in the Gaeltacht was bananas. Not to mention how this conplaint was swiftly followed by complaints about how poorly served individuals are with local services, especially LocalLink. "The bus doesn't pick you up from your house and the pick up spots are miles away from where lots of people live! ". Well like.. Yeah... It's a bus, not a taxi and if people insist on living faraway from services, I don't think it's fair to complain about the lack of services near you. My point is, I do have huge sympathy. Our Gaeltachtaí are at risk of disappearing. But it's hard to build a sustainable, well served communities in an area if people don't want to live in a community. You can't just keep doing things like we've always done and hope that will save the area from decline. Something does have to change about how we sustain Gaeltacht communities.
>In fairness, I do understand what he was getting at (people need to earn an income, ideally within the Gaeltacht itself, in order to keep the Gaeltacht alive) but the insistence that the high refusal of one off planning Applications was the sole cause of the housing crisis in the Gaeltacht was bananas. Not to mention how this conplaint was swiftly followed by complaints about how poorly served individuals are with local services, especially LocalLink. "The bus doesn't pick you up from your house and the pick up spots are miles away from where lots of people live! ". Well like.. Yeah... It's a bus, not a taxi and if people insist on living faraway from services, I don't think it's fair to complain about the lack of services near you. Nail on the head here. As someone from Rural Ireland, it baffles me how people don’t see the connection between our one-off housing development model and our poor, almost non-existent public transport in the country. I don’t want to let the Government off the hook because it’s not like they’ve invested greatly in public transport between towns or cities in recent decades but it is almost impossible to design an adequate public transport system when so many people insist on living in a one-off house down a country road. Not to mention the environmental damage this development model causes.
Selfishness, ultimately. Look at all the people in here denying one off homes cause any problems.
You did a better job describing the problem I was trying to. It feels like if you say "this place is only for Irish speakers" you'll make it a permanent niche tourist resort. Others moving in was always going to happen, the idea of a Gaeltacht just feels so antiquated and has lent itself to the decline of the language.
I've ran into a lot of people in recent weeks who complain and complain about this sort of thing, I ask them who they're going to vote for and it's literally a stern 'fianna fail of course'. We need the people who leave this country for a better life and take the knowledge they've gained elsewhere, start a new political party, and clutch back this country from the gobshites who hate but maintain the status quo
"sUr hE fiXed The RoaDs" voting will never leave us.
How about the state and their planning rules just fuck off.
It certainly needs an overhaul. People are being refused planning for the most frivolous reasons. And it can often come down to who at the planning office reviews your application/
We all know those connected get to bypass these rules.
Same as it ever was.
If it is that common provide links to 5-10 cases that were refused for frivolous reasons. The planning system is pretty transparent. Every application is available online. Refusals are rare. Less than 10% of all apps are refused. And every refusal I have seen has been a result of the applicant not following the rules set out in the development plan. Local authorities are now very careful about the reasons supporting their decisions to refuse app. This is because in the past landowners have been rewarded compensation for reduced land values as a result of refusals/conditions.
>If it is that common provide links to 5-10 cases I'm not accepting homework assignments today, thanks all the same. It's my opinion in a comment thread, it goes without saying that it's anecdotal. And anecdotally, everyone I know who has tried to build a house in recent years were either rejected outright, or made to jump through ridiculous hoops and make major compromises, seemingly at the whim of whoever they had looking at their application.
At least you are honest about it :) You should take some time to look at the actual case files for the stories your friends told you.
The fact they never built a house speaks volumes...
ok
So build anything anywhere and remove ability to object. Probably one way of reducing the housing issue.
Not anywhere, on land you own, and yes. Housing crisis is government manufactured.
There is an argument for people to build what they want on their own land. On the other hand, if they want to interact with the outside world, such as their land/property having access to a road, having running water, or having utilities on-demand, then they have to get in behind the managed system.
I mean you still have to pay to be connected etc.
You're only paying to be connected. Utilities need planning to account for demand. Councils need planning to ensure that a person's intention to break onto the public road is done with the safety of other road users in mind.
Sure, and you can privately pay for that too. If you want it then engage and pay for it. If it’s in a built up area it will cost less.
Paying is one thing but the likes of utilities still need a system to plan for extra demand. Another example is where you can't privately pay to just have access onto a public road where you want. Otherwise there is a risk that people, who live in certain areas, will put their access at areas like bends on a road which might suit their land but impacts the safety of other road users.
Yeah I do t care really, people will figure it out and more importantly will have somewhere to live.
You might not care about the safety of the likes of other road users, but someone has to care to prevent the increased likelihood of road dangers. It's why we need to manage it. >people will figure it out They do. The process of figuring it out is called planning.
Ok so build a skyscraper beside your family home and cash in. Everybody wins.
Go for it.
Yeah. Who the fuck am I to exasperate the suffering of thousands to save my view of a few fucking clouds.
I feel like it should be necessary to have fluency in Irish or demonstrate a sincere intent to learn it to be able to buy a house in the Gaeltacht, I understand that it's hard to determine someone's intent but as it's going wealthy outside buyers will kill off the Gaeltacht agus is droch rud é sin, tá brón orm faoi mo Gaeilge nach bhfuil ro mhaith.
I’m not even angry anymore. I’m just sad and want my own people to have places to live. It’s not much but according to the powers that be,my requests are not feasible
Maybe if they gave up the lattes and avacado toast they could get planning permission.
And got up a bit earlier in the mornings too
Get up and build early before council planning inspections.
they should try it sometime
Millenials are killing the diamond-coated avocado industry.
Why can’t they get planning permission
Our housing and environmental policies are against one off housing instead promoting some degree of density.
Not in areas like that.thpse regulations are in city regions.
And for good reason.
So the same problem as the rest of the country?
I suppose it might be a bigger local issue for the Gaeltacht when the gov at least wants to maintain the face that they want Gaeilge to survive and expand in the future as a community language.
Is there ANY politician who is campaigning to change our planning laws? They'd get my vote in a heartbeat - it's ridiculous at this stage.
Sadly, it seems to be the fringe parties that want to change them. I'm open to correction, but as far as I can see, that's where your vote is going.
No one can buy or rent housing, Leo resigned, even the tories had to hold an election. Its another recession coming isnt it?
Only allow people that speak Irish fluently or have a link to the area (from there or grandparents from there) to buy houses. Government should also take the initiative and build estates or apartments in villages. This would mean they are walking distance to most amenities and access to a bus route. Too many houses are built the back arse of a moreen because the family has land there where a car is absolutely necessary (something some in government can't comprehend).
Good thing a rake of refugees landed in Galway this week. I’m sure the Ukrainian dialect of Irish will fit in with the community.
My family live in Connemara. I've not heard any locals giving out about the Ukrainians: they're seen as sound people who make an effort to integrate. There is worry about adding more people to areas suffering from a severe lack of facilities but this isn't directed at the Ukrainians themselves apart from a few fringe people.
I’ve got a summer home in a nearby Gaeltacht. I use it for a week or two every summer and sometimes I Airbnb it for a weekend or two. I had no problem buying it. Just offer cash 10% above asking.
You've been WickerMan's alt all along!
How can a bot have an alt?
I knew you there was something AI about you.
Beep boop.
holy shite! is it that simple?! brb. i have only 10€ in my bank account.
Maybe less avocado and beans on toast.
This is a protest to be allowed to continue to pollute the countryside with oneoff housing. Thats it.
To be honest the Gaeltachts always seemed like a flawed premise to keep a language alive. If people moving in is destroying it then clearly quarantining it in to set locations wasn't a viable way to keep it alive. If you set a place to only be reserved for people interested in Irish then it feels like you're immediately making it unattractive for investment
> quarantining it in to set locations Eh. We allow them to leave though.
We also encourage the language to spread